Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Michael Gardiner]

Oh….I doubt that Ken Bates’ name is on it…doesn’t mean he doesn’t own it…

Michael A. Gardiner
LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER
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Phone:  619.238.9800
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E-mail:  mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com<mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com>

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On Mar 27, 2014, at 10:54 AM, 
mailto:tim.whe...@talk21.com>> 
mailto:tim.whe...@talk21.com>> wrote:

Gary Cooper of LUST assured me that Bates doesn't own either, much to my 
surprise.

Tim W.


From: Michael Gardiner 
mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com>>
To: "leedslist@gn.apc.org<mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>" 
mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org>>
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2014, 17:25
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates rises again

And who, exactly, believes Bates does not have an undisclosed interest in 
Elland Road or Thorp Arch?  Which is to say who believes that Bates stepping 
forward for even a moment is not designed to hasten an Administration?

Michael A. Gardiner
LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER
110 West “A” Street, Suite 950
San Diego, CA  92101
Phone:  619.238.9800
Fax:  619.814.3727
E-mail:  
mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com<mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com><mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com<mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com>>

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On Mar 27, 2014, at 5:01 AM, 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org><mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org<mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>>>
 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org><mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org<mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>>>
 wrote:



I think the League get to decide which season to apply it to after today - so 
if we are 9 points clear of relegation with one game to go and go into Admin 
they could apply it then.? All because of Bates deciding to go into Admin when 
we were already down all those years ago.

I'm not really sure if Bates is mischief-making - he's hardly going to help the 
Flowers bid with the fans by saying he is involved.

Or whether he is circling to take control again.

I'd imagine anyone with ownership over Elland Rd or Thorp Arch will have a 
significant advantage if we went into Admin

Matt

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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[tim . whelan]

Gary Cooper of LUST assured me that Bates doesn't own either, much to my 
surprise. 

Tim W.





 From: Michael Gardiner 
To: "leedslist@gn.apc.org"  
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2014, 17:25
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates rises again
 

And who, exactly, believes Bates does not have an undisclosed interest in 
Elland Road or Thorp Arch?  Which is to say who believes that Bates stepping 
forward for even a moment is not designed to hasten an Administration?

Michael A. Gardiner
LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER
110 West “A” Street, Suite 950
San Diego, CA  92101
Phone:  619.238.9800
Fax:  619.814.3727
E-mail:  mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com<mailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com>

Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any 
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On Mar 27, 2014, at 5:01 AM, 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>> 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>> wrote:



I think the League get to decide which season to apply it to after today - so 
if we are 9 points clear of relegation with one game to go and go into Admin 
they could apply it then.? All because of Bates deciding to go into Admin when 
we were already down all those years ago.

I'm not really sure if Bates is mischief-making - he's hardly going to help the 
Flowers bid with the fans by saying he is involved.

Or whether he is circling to take control again.

I'd imagine anyone with ownership over Elland Rd or Thorp Arch will have a 
significant advantage if we went into Admin

Matt

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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Michael Gardiner]

And who, exactly, believes Bates does not have an undisclosed interest in 
Elland Road or Thorp Arch?  Which is to say who believes that Bates stepping 
forward for even a moment is not designed to hasten an Administration?

Michael A. Gardiner
LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER
110 West “A” Street, Suite 950
San Diego, CA  92101
Phone:  619.238.9800
Fax:  619.814.3727
E-mail:  mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com

Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any 
attachments, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for review by 
the party to whom it is addressed. It may contain attorney client or attorney 
work product privileged and confidential information. If you have received this 
transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail 
and promptly delete this e-mail, including any attachments, without reading or 
saving them in any manner. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver 
of the attorney-client or any other privilege.

On Mar 27, 2014, at 5:01 AM, 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>> 
mailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org>> wrote:



I think the League get to decide which season to apply it to after today - so 
if we are 9 points clear of relegation with one game to go and go into Admin 
they could apply it then.? All because of Bates deciding to go into Admin when 
we were already down all those years ago.

I'm not really sure if Bates is mischief-making - he's hardly going to help the 
Flowers bid with the fans by saying he is involved.

Or whether he is circling to take control again.

I'd imagine anyone with ownership over Elland Rd or Thorp Arch will have a 
significant advantage if we went into Admin

Matt

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Rest In Peace old lad
28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
MARCHING ON TOGETHER

[LU] Bates

[David Watson]

Just seen the interview with Papa Smurf on Radio Yorkshire. What sanctimonious 
drivel from the malignant stoat. When asked by the interviewer to confirm or 
deny the rumour that he is to return to the club, he said, and I paraphrase 
here, 'I am afraid the rumours are untrue.' Thank f**k for that.  He comes over 
all holier than thou.  Arguably he has done more damage than GFH up to press at 
least. As my dear Mum used to say 'Hark at the kettle calling the pot grimy 
ar*e.'

I still think administration is a strong possibility.

Sent from my Google Tablet
David Watson
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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[nat...@sky.com]

IF Bates were to come back in control of the club then that could really be the 
final nail in the coffin. Unless he has had a personalitly and character 
transplant whereby he comes in, buys (or admits he owns) ER and TA and gives 
them to the club and then spends millions on players, then fans will desert in 
their thousands. A lot of fans used Bates as a reason / excuse (delete as you 
think appropriate) for not coming to games. A number have come back under GFH 
and up until now our attendances have shown a healthy increase. All those fans 
would leave again and I think many more would join the boycott
As it stands our loyalty is being pushed to the absolute limits - most fans who 
are going between now and the end of the season are doing so because they have 
already paid for tickets or because the fun of the match going experience 
outweighs the garbage we see on the pitch
Dave



 



I'm not really sure if Bates is mischief-making - he's hardly going to help the 
Flowers bid with the fans by saying he is involved. 

Or whether he is circling to take control again.

I'd imagine anyone with ownership over Elland Rd or Thorp Arch will have a 
significant advantage if we went into Admin

Matt





From: John Lee 
To: Richard Walker ; "leedslist@gn.apc.org" 
 
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2014, 11:06
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates rises again


Possibly the most sense Beast has ever spoken?? I don't know about the Flowers 
bid in total, although it was absolutely clear the guy was Leeds through and 
through. I should imagine GFH will be seeking to re-energise any old bid pdq, 
but whether investors are now prepared to see us go into admin and see if they 
can pick us up at rock-bottom prices seems more likely to me!
 
Isn't today the last day we can lose points this season by going into Admin. 
After today the points deduction will come next season? 
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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Rick Duniec]

- Original Message - I think the League get to decide which season to 
apply it to after today - so if we are 9 points clear of relegation with one 
game to go and go into Admin they could apply it then.

The League do NOT have an active choice in the matter. The application of the 
deduction is pre-determined as per my previous post. In your example the 
deduction would only get applied if it relegated us  but not if we were 
relegated anyway on the points prior to the deduction.

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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[MATTHEW GAYNOR]

I think the League get to decide which season to apply it to after today - so 
if we are 9 points clear of relegation with one game to go and go into Admin 
they could apply it then.  All because of Bates deciding to go into Admin when 
we were already down all those years ago.

I'm not really sure if Bates is mischief-making - he's hardly going to help the 
Flowers bid with the fans by saying he is involved. 

Or whether he is circling to take control again.

I'd imagine anyone with ownership over Elland Rd or Thorp Arch will have a 
significant advantage if we went into Admin

Matt




 From: John Lee 
To: Richard Walker ; "leedslist@gn.apc.org" 
 
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2014, 11:06
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates rises again
 

Possibly the most sense Beast has ever spoken?? I don't know about the Flowers 
bid in total, although it was absolutely clear the guy was Leeds through and 
through. I should imagine GFH will be seeking to re-energise any old bid pdq, 
but whether investors are now prepared to see us go into admin and see if they 
can pick us up at rock-bottom prices seems more likely to me!
 
Isn't today the last day we can lose points this season by going into Admin. 
After today the points deduction will come next season? 
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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Rick Duniec]

- Original Message - Isn't today the last day we can lose points this 
season by going into Admin. After today the points deduction will come next 
season? 

Not as I understand it. Today is probably the last day for the points to 
DEFINITELY be deducted THIS season.
After the cut-off the deduction is only applied this season if it is effective, 
otherwise it is applied next season. Effective means if it prevents promotion 
or if it triggers relegation.
It has to alter the outcome to the season for it to be applied this season. 

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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Nigel Barber]

Bates is so shifty. He even used his wife as a front to put money into the
club.


On 27 March 2014 11:06, John Lee  wrote:

> Possibly the most sense Beast has ever spoken?? I don't know about the
> Flowers bid in total, although it was absolutely clear the guy was Leeds
> through and through. I should imagine GFH will be seeking to re-energise
> any old bid pdq, but whether investors are now prepared to see us go into
> admin and see if they can pick us up at rock-bottom prices seems more
> likely to me!
>
> Isn't today the last day we can lose points this season by going into
> Admin. After today the points deduction will come next season?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 19:54, Richard Walker <
> richleed...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Anyone seen Bates's interview on the new Radio Yorkshire.
>
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InSEFwX1uDU
>
> I hate Bates and don't believe a single word that the man says but you
> have to admit this is genius.
>
> >
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>



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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[John Lee]

Possibly the most sense Beast has ever spoken?? I don't know about the Flowers 
bid in total, although it was absolutely clear the guy was Leeds through and 
through. I should imagine GFH will be seeking to re-energise any old bid pdq, 
but whether investors are now prepared to see us go into admin and see if they 
can pick us up at rock-bottom prices seems more likely to me!
 
Isn't today the last day we can lose points this season by going into Admin. 
After today the points deduction will come next season? 
 
 



On Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 19:54, Richard Walker  
wrote:
  
Anyone seen Bates's interview on the new Radio Yorkshire.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InSEFwX1uDU

I hate Bates and don't believe a single word that the man says but you have to 
admit this is genius. 

> 
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Re: [LU] Bates rises again

[Nigel Barber]

Looks like Radio Ken to me. Is he funding it?


On 26 March 2014 19:54, Richard Walker  wrote:

> Anyone seen Bates's interview on the new Radio Yorkshire.
>
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InSEFwX1uDU
>
> I hate Bates and don't believe a single word that the man says but you
> have to admit this is genius.
> >
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> John 'Grampa' Sykes
> Rest In Peace old lad
> 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
> MARCHING ON TOGETHER
>



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[LU] Bates rises again

[Richard Walker]

Anyone seen Bates's interview on the new Radio Yorkshire.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InSEFwX1uDU

I hate Bates and don't believe a single word that the man says but you have to 
admit this is genius. 
> 
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Rick Duniec]

Not sure what the point is here, sorry.

Yes, Bates should have been debt free post administration apart from Football 
Creditors less any payment from the central FL pot. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Boocock 
  To: leedslist@gn.apc.org 
  Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [LU] Bates


  Surely Bates was debt free post administration

  On 20/03/2014 19:02, Rick Duniec wrote:
  > It's quite a while back to remember the details without checking but I'd 
agree that the football debts continued for a few seasons until the contracts 
ran out but should have reduced each year as players were shed and as contracts 
expired.

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Re: [LU] Bates

[John Boocock]

Surely Bates was debt free post administration

On 20/03/2014 19:02, Rick Duniec wrote:

It's quite a while back to remember the details without checking but I'd agree 
that the football debts continued for a few seasons until the contracts ran out 
but should have reduced each year as players were shed and as contracts expired.


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Re: [LU] Bates

[Rick Duniec]

It's quite a while back to remember the details without checking but I'd agree 
that the football debts continued for a few seasons until the contracts ran out 
but should have reduced each year as players were shed and as contracts expired.
>From memory I thought the Krasner buyout from the Plc shed more debt than £60M 
>because that would have only covered the debt from the bondholders and the 
>release of their charge over Elland Road.
I'm trying to remember what Bates said when he arrived and what the next set of 
accounts showed. Of course we also need to deduct the directors loans that the 
Krasner board left in after Bates' arrival as I don't think that much of that 
ever got repaid.

I'd also agree that Krasner's board ran out of money and were facing falling 
off a cliff with the IR/HMRC. I still wonder what could have been done if 
Krasner had tried to involve the fans more directly in some sort of fans 
ownership scheme.

I suppose my real point is to break the assumed link between Ridsdale's (and 
the Profs) mistakes and Bates putting the club into administration.
  - Original Message - 
  From: tim.whe...@talk21.com 
  It's true that Krasner and co. got rid of about £60m of debt when they took 
over in 2004, but weren't we still hemorrhaging cash once they took over 
because some of the Ridsdale era contracts didn't expire till 2006 or 2007?  
Weren't we still having to pay huge amounts to Danny Mills, Robbie Fowler, Gary 
Kelly and Seth Johnson, and possibly others? In the Bates era we had to pay 
Johnson £1million to cancel his contract, but I'm sure we were still committed 
to paying huge sums to several others under contracts we couldn't get out of, 
in several cases for some years after they had left the club.


  And at the time Krasner sold to Bates at the start of 2005 there was a 
substantial and growing debt to the Inland Revenue, who were threatening to 
wind us up.


  None of the above means that I'm a Bates apologist, as I know he went on to 
do a lot of damage himself, but there was certainly still a big problem to be 
dealt with at the time he took over.


  Tim W.
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Re: [LU] Bates

[tim . whelan]

It's true that Krasner and co. got rid of about £60m of debt when they took 
over in 2004, but weren't we still hemorrhaging cash once they took over 
because some of the Ridsdale era contracts didn't expire till 2006 or 2007?  
Weren't we still having to pay huge amounts to Danny Mills, Robbie Fowler, Gary 
Kelly and Seth Johnson, and possibly others? In the Bates era we had to pay 
Johnson £1million to cancel his contract, but I'm sure we were still committed 
to paying huge sums to several others under contracts we couldn't get out of, 
in several cases for some years after they had left the club.

And at the time Krasner sold to Bates at the start of 2005 there was a 
substantial and growing debt to the Inland Revenue, who were threatening to 
wind us up.

None of the above means that I'm a Bates apologist, as I know he went on to do 
a lot of damage himself, but there was certainly still a big problem to be 
dealt with at the time he took over.

Tim W.






 From: Rick Duniec 
To: Leedslist@gn.apc.org 
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014, 8:54
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates
 

You have identified one of the great Bates myths where you say "our allegedly 
enormous ongoing debts". 
The Truth is that the vast bulk of the debt had been dealt with by the actions 
of the Krasner group. Bates actually said this himself when he originally 
arrived but that has been swept under the carpet in the convenient mythology. 
The bulk of ongoing debt was in fact football creditors and that debt eroded 
over time as it was paid off. There were some overhanging issues (contingent 
liabilities) but the overhanging debt problem had been largely overcome. That 
is the tragedy of Bates' involvement. He kept the club needlessly mired in the 
pit when it should have been emerging from the darkness. He shifted the blame 
onto Ridsdale and partly in the fans eyes onto Krasner just as he did onto 
Mahwhinney and the FL. It's all lies.
That's also why our recovery has been much slower than at other clubs. Think 
about it. How can we wipe out the debt through administration, have much bigger 
income streams than our rivals and yet still continue wallowing in a financial 
mess ?

That is why a whole new set of creditors was created, as a tool for Bates to 
use to take the club into administration. 
Nobody has ever explained what the money from these new creditors was used for 
and it is to easy for people to assume that it was a carry forward of the 
Ridsdale debt without thinking about it. That is what most of the media do 
today. The truth is that there is very little real connection between the 
Ridsdale debt and the club going into administration under Bates several years 
later. You could even view the debt under Bates as the physical manifestation 
of his milking the club. What else was the money (the new debt) used for ?

It a similar picture the the Plc shares. Your loss of shares when the Plc was 
wound up was nothing to do with the subsequent Krasner or Bates tenures, as you 
rightly say. There is no real connection.
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Rest In Peace old lad
28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
MARCHING ON TOGETHER

Re: [LU] Bates

[Rick Duniec]

You have identified one of the great Bates myths where you say "our allegedly 
enormous ongoing debts". 
The Truth is that the vast bulk of the debt had been dealt with by the actions 
of the Krasner group. Bates actually said this himself when he originally 
arrived but that has been swept under the carpet in the convenient mythology. 
The bulk of ongoing debt was in fact football creditors and that debt eroded 
over time as it was paid off. There were some overhanging issues (contingent 
liabilities) but the overhanging debt problem had been largely overcome. That 
is the tragedy of Bates' involvement. He kept the club needlessly mired in the 
pit when it should have been emerging from the darkness. He shifted the blame 
onto Ridsdale and partly in the fans eyes onto Krasner just as he did onto 
Mahwhinney and the FL. It's all lies.
That's also why our recovery has been much slower than at other clubs. Think 
about it. How can we wipe out the debt through administration, have much bigger 
income streams than our rivals and yet still continue wallowing in a financial 
mess ?

That is why a whole new set of creditors was created, as a tool for Bates to 
use to take the club into administration. 
Nobody has ever explained what the money from these new creditors was used for 
and it is to easy for people to assume that it was a carry forward of the 
Ridsdale debt without thinking about it. That is what most of the media do 
today. The truth is that there is very little real connection between the 
Ridsdale debt and the club going into administration under Bates several years 
later. You could even view the debt under Bates as the physical manifestation 
of his milking the club. What else was the money (the new debt) used for ?

It a similar picture the the Plc shares. Your loss of shares when the Plc was 
wound up was nothing to do with the subsequent Krasner or Bates tenures, as you 
rightly say. There is no real connection.
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Rest In Peace old lad
28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
MARCHING ON TOGETHER

Re: [LU] Bates

[Leeds List]

Given that its Leeds United nothing would surprise me less than Papa Smurf 
returning as our self proclaimed "saviour"'
Sarge 

Sent from my iPhone

On 20 Mar 2014, at 03:15, N If  wrote:

> yikes , i shuddered at the suggestion that he could be waiting in the wings
> to do us over once again..though, what intrigues me, it would appear he
> had a way of managing our allegedly enormous ongoing debts for all those
> years he seemed to be unceremoniously milking us without apparently ever
> putting his hand in his own pocket.  Is that why we're lumbered now? Or was
> he a bit cannier than GFH?
> 
> BTW, I was one of thousands (?) who handed over a few hundred quid to be
> able to proudly say I was an owner of LUFC, (but I digress - that was
> Ridsdale's not Bates' fault those shares got wiped out)
> 
> Love
> nif
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> John 'Grampa' Sykes
> Rest In Peace old lad
> 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
> MARCHING ON TOGETHER
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Rest In Peace old lad
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MARCHING ON TOGETHER

[LU] Bates

[N If]

yikes , i shuddered at the suggestion that he could be waiting in the wings
to do us over once again..though, what intrigues me, it would appear he
had a way of managing our allegedly enormous ongoing debts for all those
years he seemed to be unceremoniously milking us without apparently ever
putting his hand in his own pocket.  Is that why we're lumbered now? Or was
he a bit cannier than GFH?

BTW, I was one of thousands (?) who handed over a few hundred quid to be
able to proudly say I was an owner of LUFC, (but I digress - that was
Ridsdale's not Bates' fault those shares got wiped out)

Love
nif
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Rest In Peace old lad
28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013
MARCHING ON TOGETHER

Re: [LU] Bates

[Leeds List]

It's easy to tell them apart - ones a grey haired old curmudgeon with 
vociferous opinions and the other lives in Monaco! 
Happy birthday - venceremos.
Sarge

P.S. About time for another MOALM - if we wait for a "big occasion" game you 
won't be the only 60 year old there.

Sent from my iPhone

On 3 Oct 2013, at 11:40, Ed Morrish  wrote:

> SLANDER! Betty, as a birthday present you can kick Jamie Oliver here off
> this list for good!
> 
> (Happy birthday, old man.)
> 
> Ed.
> 
> 
> On 3 October 2013 11:10, Richard Naef wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> I just find it rather ironic that so many listers use this "Bates" thread
>> to wish Betty a happy birthday - hahahaha
>> 
>> or is it?  Have you ever seen them in the same room together just
>> sayin'
>> 
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Re: [LU] Bates

[TWENEY PAUL]

Happy Birthday Betty.

I'm sat in a pub catching up on my e-mails so will raise my pint in your
honour!

Maverick.


On 3 October 2013 08:02,  wrote:

> I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called
> lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to
> it all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting
> a very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but
> because he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial
> demands of some members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that
> would mean. The abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me
> in City Station) what was important was the fact that someone with Bates'
> well documented history could even be considered as fit to own a football
> club.
>
> Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
>
> I'm enjoying my retirement.
>
> Betty
> (60 today)
>
> --Original Message--
> From: Ian Murray
> To: John Boocock
> To: leeds list
> Subject: Bates
> Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00
>
> Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the
> press conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube.
> I know our very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an
> interview that was nothing short of prophetic.
>
> Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on
> board? I note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the
> press conference...what an utter c@nr he is.
>
> MOT
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> ___
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> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
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>
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Jeremy Adams]

Oh Yes happy birthday Betty. As a present I'm snipping all the other stuff from 
this e-mail to help with the digest!
Best,
Jeremy
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Peter Castlehouse]

Betty's not that bad yet - or is he?   As he said to me the other day
"I may have Alzheimer's, but at least I don't have Alzheimer's..."
Bless him...



-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Naef
Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013 3:51 AM
To: 'Leeds List'
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates

 

>SLANDER! Betty, as a birthday present you can kick Jamie Oliver here off
this list for good!

 

at 60, I doubt if the old bugger can get out of his chair let alone kick.

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Re: [LU] Bates

[Roy Blackwell]

Happy Birthday


On 3 October 2013 11:51, Richard Naef wrote:

>
>
> >SLANDER! Betty, as a birthday present you can kick Jamie Oliver here off
> this list for good!
>
>
>
> at 60, I doubt if the old bugger can get out of his chair let alone kick.
>
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>
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Richard Naef]

 

>SLANDER! Betty, as a birthday present you can kick Jamie Oliver here off
this list for good!

 

at 60, I doubt if the old bugger can get out of his chair let alone kick.

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Re: [LU] Bates

[Ed Morrish]

SLANDER! Betty, as a birthday present you can kick Jamie Oliver here off
this list for good!

(Happy birthday, old man.)

Ed.


On 3 October 2013 11:10, Richard Naef wrote:

>
> >I just find it rather ironic that so many listers use this "Bates" thread
> to wish Betty a happy birthday - hahahaha
>
> or is it?  Have you ever seen them in the same room together just
> sayin'
>
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Richard Naef]

>I just find it rather ironic that so many listers use this "Bates" thread to 
>wish Betty a happy birthday - hahahaha

or is it?  Have you ever seen them in the same room together just sayin'

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Re: [LU] Bates

[Peter Castlehouse]

I just find it rather ironic that so many listers use this "Bates" thread to 
wish Betty a happy birthday - hahahaha

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Brendan Osborne
Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013 2:34 AM
To: Dave Sowden; j...@boocock.net
Cc: Leeds List
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates

A young 52 year old 😁 wishes you a Very Happy Birthday from Johannesburg (temp 
work assignment).
Cheers Betty, enjoy!!

> From: davesow...@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 17:23:41 +0800
> To: j...@boocock.net
> CC: leedslist@gn.apc.org
> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates
> 
> Birthday greetings from Singapore Betty
> 
> I hit 60 end of 2011. It wasn't that bad! I got to play what will almost 
> certainly be my last gig!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 3 Oct, 2013, at 3:05 pm, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> > 
> > I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
> > lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to 
> > it all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting 
> > a very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but 
> > because he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial 
> > demands of some members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that 
> > would mean. The abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me 
> > in City Station) what was important was the fact that someone with Bates' 
> > well documented history could even be considered as fit to own a football 
> > club.

> > 
> > Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> > 
> > I'm enjoying my retirement.
> > 
> > Betty
> > (60 today)
> > 

  
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Brendan Osborne]

A young 52 year old 😁 wishes you a Very Happy Birthday from Johannesburg (temp 
work assignment).
Cheers Betty, enjoy!!

> From: davesow...@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 17:23:41 +0800
> To: j...@boocock.net
> CC: leedslist@gn.apc.org
> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates
> 
> Birthday greetings from Singapore Betty
> 
> I hit 60 end of 2011. It wasn't that bad! I got to play what will almost 
> certainly be my last gig!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 3 Oct, 2013, at 3:05 pm, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> > 
> > I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
> > lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to 
> > it all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting 
> > a very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but 
> > because he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial 
> > demands of some members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that 
> > would mean. The abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me 
> > in City Station) what was important was the fact that someone with Bates' 
> > well documented history could even be considered as fit to own a football 
> > club.

> > 
> > Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> > 
> > I'm enjoying my retirement.
> > 
> > Betty
> > (60 today)
> > 

  
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Dave Sowden]

Birthday greetings from Singapore Betty

I hit 60 end of 2011. It wasn't that bad! I got to play what will almost 
certainly be my last gig!


Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Oct, 2013, at 3:05 pm, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> 
> I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
> lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to it 
> all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting a 
> very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but because 
> he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial demands of some 
> members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that would mean. The 
> abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me in City Station) 
> what was important was the fact that someone with Bates' well documented 
> history could even be considered as fit to own a football club.
> 
> Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> 
> I'm enjoying my retirement.
> 
> Betty
> (60 today)
> 
> --Original Message--
> From: Ian Murray
> To: John Boocock
> To: leeds list
> Subject: Bates
> Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00
> 
> Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the press 
> conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube. I know 
> our very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an interview that 
> was nothing short of prophetic. 
> 
> Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on board? I 
> note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the press 
> conference...what an utter c@nr he is.
> 
> MOT
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> ___
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Nigel Barber]

Happy birthday Betty!


Nigel.


On 3 October 2013 09:13, Ian Murray  wrote:

> Happy birthday mate!!!
>
> MOT
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 3 Oct 2013, at 15:02, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> >
> > I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so
> called lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought
> bollocks to it all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work
> towards putting a very credible package together: club , ground and
> training ground but because he wasn't willing to keel over to things like
>  the financial demands of some members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and
> all that that would mean. The abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even
> assaulted me in City Station) what was important was the fact that someone
> with Bates' well documented history could even be considered as fit to own
> a football club.
> >
> > Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> >
> > I'm enjoying my retirement.
> >
> > Betty
> > (60 today)
> >
> > --Original Message--
> > From: Ian Murray
> > To: John Boocock
> > To: leeds list
> > Subject: Bates
> > Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00
> >
> > Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the
> press conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube.
> I know our very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an
> interview that was nothing short of prophetic.
> >
> > Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on
> board? I note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the
> press conference...what an utter c@nr he is.
> >
> > MOT
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Ian Murray]

Happy birthday mate!!!

MOT

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Oct 2013, at 15:02, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> 
> I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
> lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to it 
> all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting a 
> very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but because 
> he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial demands of some 
> members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that would mean. The 
> abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me in City Station) 
> what was important was the fact that someone with Bates' well documented 
> history could even be considered as fit to own a football club.
> 
> Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> 
> I'm enjoying my retirement.
> 
> Betty
> (60 today)
> 
> --Original Message--
> From: Ian Murray
> To: John Boocock
> To: leeds list
> Subject: Bates
> Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00
> 
> Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the press 
> conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube. I know 
> our very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an interview that 
> was nothing short of prophetic. 
> 
> Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on board? I 
> note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the press 
> conference...what an utter c@nr he is.
> 
> MOT
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Ted]

> I'm enjoying my retirement.
>
> Betty
> (60 today)
>
>
Happy Birthday Betty!

(Where do all the years go!!!)

Ted H
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Re: [LU] Bates

[Andy Clayton]

Happy birthday and many more!

Andy C

Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Oct 2013, at 08:02, j...@boocock.net wrote:
> 
> I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
> lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to it 
> all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting a 
> very credible package together: club , ground and training ground but because 
> he wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial demands of some 
> members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that would mean. The 
> abuse wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me in City Station) 
> what was important was the fact that someone with Bates' well documented 
> history could even be considered as fit to own a football club.
> 
> Football authorities and the football world take a bow!
> 
> I'm enjoying my retirement.
> 
> Betty
> (60 today)
> 
> --Original Message--
> From: Ian Murray
> To: John Boocock
> To: leeds list
> Subject: Bates
> Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00
> 
> Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the press 
> conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube. I know 
> our very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an interview that 
> was nothing short of prophetic. 
> 
> Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on board? I 
> note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the press 
> conference...what an utter c@nr he is.
> 
> MOT
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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Re: [LU] Bates

[john]

I got dogs abuse for what I said especially the Evening Post and so called 
lefty journalist Pete Lazenby. It was at that point I thought bollocks to it 
all. I had helped an honourable man, Norman Stubbs work towards putting a very 
credible package together: club , ground and training ground but because he 
wasn't willing to keel over to things like  the financial demands of some 
members of the Kronsortium we got Bates and all that that would mean. The abuse 
wasn't important (some Leeds Fans even assaulted me in City Station) what was 
important was the fact that someone with Bates' well documented history could 
even be considered as fit to own a football club.

Football authorities and the football world take a bow!

I'm enjoying my retirement.

Betty
(60 today)

--Original Message--
From: Ian Murray
To: John Boocock
To: leeds list
Subject: Bates
Sent: 3 Oct 2013 07:00

Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the press 
conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube. I know our 
very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an interview that was 
nothing short of prophetic. 

Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on board? I 
note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the press 
conference...what an utter c@nr he is.

MOT



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[LU] Bates

[Ian Murray]

Because I am sad when I was home alone last night I had a look at the press 
conference and SSN coverage if the Bates take over in 05 on YouTube. I know our 
very own Betty was chair of LuSt and that time and gave an interview that was 
nothing short of prophetic. 

Just wanted to say fair play! Have you thought about getting back on board? I 
note that he couldn't help himself but have a dig at you in the press 
conference...what an utter c@nr he is.

MOT



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Re: [LU] Bates Speaks

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

You mean he lied?
Surely not
On Jul 29, 2013 10:00 PM, "John Boocock"  wrote:

>I had the dubious pleasure of listening to Bates being interviewed by
>some poor sop on Talk Sport. What an eye opener! If Bates is to
>believed he had handed over a club in the rudest of health a cat's cock
>hair from winning the Champions League with the happiest supporters in
>Europe bar none. A club with the finest most envied facilities in the
>UK whose owners were universally loved by all but those who really
>should have been at the front of the queue at High Royds.  And the
>mindless twat who interviewed him actually thanked Bates for this
>nonesense.  No wonder our equally inglorious new owners wanted rid of
>the old shite.
>
>Thank God there are other more important things in life to look forward
>to eh?
>
>Betty
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[LU] Bates Speaks

[John Boocock]

   I had the dubious pleasure of listening to Bates being interviewed by
   some poor sop on Talk Sport. What an eye opener! If Bates is to
   believed he had handed over a club in the rudest of health a cat's cock
   hair from winning the Champions League with the happiest supporters in
   Europe bar none. A club with the finest most envied facilities in the
   UK whose owners were universally loved by all but those who really
   should have been at the front of the queue at High Royds.  And the
   mindless twat who interviewed him actually thanked Bates for this
   nonesense.  No wonder our equally inglorious new owners wanted rid of
   the old shite.

   Thank God there are other more important things in life to look forward
   to eh?

   Betty
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Re: [LU] Bates - sorry missed the best bit in my summation

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

Pretty good !!
Bates thinks that is his job.
No wonder he's annoyed

Dr Michael Benjamin,
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On 28 July 2013 19:02, nat...@sky.com  wrote:

> "GFH are destroying the heart of the club"
>
> I was speechless when I heard him say that !!
>
> Dave
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Re: [LU] Bates - best bits

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

He is losing it
In old age you  become caricature of your true self.


Dr Michael Benjamin,
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On 28 July 2013 19:01, nat...@sky.com  wrote:

> Having re-read what I typed as he went on this is the gist of it
>
> 1.His sacking is a diversion because they are not doing well
> 2.We are much better off because of him
> 3. Most fans loved him but there were a few noisy dissenters
> 4, Someone at GFH has a screw loose
> 5.He spent £20m on the ground
> 6 Fans only care about what happens on the pitch
> 7.GFH have not spent any money on players and he doubts they have the cash
> 8.GFH are horrible and have been nasty to him and he will sue them
>
> You could not make it up - well Ken can, and probably has for the most part
>
>
> 10mins of my life that I will never get back
>
> Dave
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[LU] Bates - sorry missed the best bit in my summation

[nat...@sky.com]

"GFH are destroying the heart of the club"

I was speechless when I heard him say that !!

Dave
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[LU] Bates - best bits

[nat...@sky.com]

Having re-read what I typed as he went on this is the gist of it

1.His sacking is a diversion because they are not doing well
2.We are much better off because of him
3. Most fans loved him but there were a few noisy dissenters
4, Someone at GFH has a screw loose
5.He spent £20m on the ground
6 Fans only care about what happens on the pitch
7.GFH have not spent any money on players and he doubts they have the cash
8.GFH are horrible and have been nasty to him and he will sue them

You could not make it up - well Ken can, and probably has for the most part


10mins of my life that I will never get back

Dave
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[LU] Bates on radio - best I could type it etc - he is an odd person

[nat...@sky.com]

Had agreement that GFH would keep paying exes -cos never taken a salary - can 
talk about it cos GFH ignored confidentiality clauses.
Got it at a lower rate and even more importantly in stirling cos gas is in 
dollars He was told he had power to make the deal but found it was cancelled - 
cannot get hold of them, always answer phone and they never spoke to him

Real problem - just diversion cos they not doing very well recently

Football and matches only tip of the iceberg - just trying to save money and 
they are destroying the heart of the club - real problem is communiaction - 
only been one board meeting when could have spoken  about this contract

I been trying to sort since Feb.

No validity in it - just an excuse to get rid of him - they been leaking to 
press, Will be taking legal action now he off holiday
It is vicious by them - they waited 2 weeks after he went on hols - someone got 
a screw loose somewhere

Was a 3 yr presidency

Had issue with a few nosiy vociferous fans - got lots from most of fans - good 
legacy - 24hours away from us going under.
Stadium crumbling ruin -spent 20m and now fit for fans and the Prem. Now got 
fans pub and convention centre. Thanks to Gwyn Williams and redders the Academy 
has been sorted
Took GFH 7 mths to do due diligence - they put a clause in DD that all major 
decisions apporved by a man named Salim Patel -all signings etc are his since 
then

They are a bank - have they got any money ?

Contract for private flights that they drew up in contract I been doing for 8 
yrs - don't need to justify it. Chairman and Presidnets come and go - all fans 
care is what happens on pitch - GFH need to put hands in pocket and give 
manager some money - they not done so far

Then mumbled about being the only something or other but was cut off

Dave

Usual bluff and bluster and lies from Ken - he really is deluded !!
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Re: [LU] Bates gone!

[Andy Pyzer]

Leeds United have confirmed that Ken Bates has left his role as their 
president, ending his eight-and-a-half-year association with the club.
The often-outspoken former Chelsea chairman bought Leeds in January 2005 and 
held power at the club until signing over to the current owner, GFH Capital, in 
December last year.
Bates remained as chairman until 30 June when he started a three-year term as 
president but that was abruptly ended on Friday night.
A short statement from the managing director, David Haigh, read: "Ken Bates has 
ceased to be president of Leeds United Football Club. Mr Bates will now no 
longer have any role within the football club."
It remains to be seen whether Bates, 81, will return to football in any 
capacity. He famously bought Chelsea for £1 before selling out to Roman 
Abramovich in 2003.
 
in the words of Basil Fawlty ' don't drive over any land mines' 
 
MOT
  
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Re: [LU] Bates gone!

[Nicholas Armit]

Dead? Fired? What?





 From: Matt Anderson 
To: Leeds List  
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:49 PM
Subject: [LU] Bates gone!
 

Nuff said


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[LU] Bates gone!

[Matt Anderson]

Nuff said


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[LU] Bates In... No matter what!

[Nigel Sykes]

FFS - I knew the old scrote wouldn't let go! We'll only be rid of the bar 
steward when he croaks...

Nigel
(the Dublin one)
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates is a Cunt

[Ian Murray]

What has he said? Anyone got a link to the program notes? 

Sent from my iPhone

On 26 Sep 2012, at 19:59, "John Boocock"  wrote:

> I see that our club's putative owner, Ken Bates has now stooped to
> trying to stir up trouble between LUDO and LUST.
> 
> The sooner this shitty little bloke fucks off back to his tax avoidance
> haven the better.
> 
> What a complete and utter twat this man is.
> 
> Angry? Me?  Dont even ask!
> 
> Betty
> 
> 
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

[LU] Bates is a Cunt

[John Boocock]

I see that our club's putative owner, Ken Bates has now stooped to
trying to stir up trouble between LUDO and LUST.

The sooner this shitty little bloke fucks off back to his tax avoidance
haven the better.

What a complete and utter twat this man is.

Angry? Me?  Dont even ask!

Betty


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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates Statement

[Richard Walker]

Good half, we played some good football against an average Forest team. Diouf 
running the show although he missed a sitter. Should be 6 really, poor 
finishing from Becchio on a number of occasions including an unmarked six 
yarder that he ballooned into top of south stand.

Should win this but they have caused us a few problems including disallowed 
goal.

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Sep 2012, at 13:47, Nigel Goodman  wrote:

> "Do we believe him?? "   Fuck NO
> Any one got a link for tonight?
>   MOT Nigel
> 
> On 22/09/2012, at 8:42 PM, Jeremy Adams wrote:
> 
>> 
>> http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120922/ken-bates-investment-update_2247585_2926464
>> Official site comments by Ken saying that a deal is at very advanced stages, 
>> should be completed in the near future. Do we believe him?
>> Of course it may be a deal where he retains 50% too!
>> Best,
>> Jeremy 
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates Statement

[Nigel Goodman]

"Do we believe him?? "   Fuck NO
  Any one got a link for tonight?
MOT Nigel

On 22/09/2012, at 8:42 PM, Jeremy Adams wrote:

> 
> http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120922/ken-bates-investment-update_2247585_2926464
> Official site comments by Ken saying that a deal is at very advanced stages, 
> should be completed in the near future. Do we believe him?
> Of course it may be a deal where he retains 50% too!
> Best,
> Jeremy  
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

[LU] Bates Statement

[Jeremy Adams]

http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120922/ken-bates-investment-update_2247585_2926464
Official site comments by Ken saying that a deal is at very advanced stages, 
should be completed in the near future. Do we believe him?
Of course it may be a deal where he retains 50% too!
Best,
Jeremy
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

[LU] Bates finally gets it right in court

[John Boocock IFA]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds-united-to-get-1m-policing-refund-1-4771001

At this rate he's going to start taking the empties back to the offy too!

Betty
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

[LU] Bates Court Case

[Chris Briggs]

For those interested in the judgement

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/levi-bates-leeds-united-others.pdf

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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

[LU] Bates and the Baters

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

I still hate the sod with a vengeance.
I believe that there are two sides to this cunt.
The one is his management skills which are excellent.
The other are his morals and motives which are criminal.
The mafia was and is well managed .. that does not make it Kosher.
After all those reservations now for a positive reference about MS:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/9275561/Blackpool-v-West-Ham-play-off-final-is-worth-90m-to-the-winner-but-financial-storm-clouds-continue-to-gather.html

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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates: We've Turned A Corner

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

We were hearing enough to know that SG was at the best not popular.
We are hearing enough to know that Colin has got ' to the lads'.
That's  more than enough for me.
I want to believe... I guess that I will believe unless doubts set in.
You could feel that Grayson had 'lost it'. That's when I lost belief in him.
I doubt if Colin can get us into the play offs.
But we will be there next year.
Whatever happens this year -- next year will be better.



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On 7 March 2012 22:44, Richard Naef  wrote:

> >
> >Do those of you closer to the "action" agree?
> >
>
> It's far too early to tell but having seen the last 3 games we've had 1
> decent performance and 2 decidedly average, so actually not much different
> from under Grayson.
>
> But since fans have absolutely no idea what goes on outside of the 95
> minutes that they see each week, we can't say if things have really changed
> on the training pitch, in the atmosphere around the first team and where it
> matters most, the players heads.
>
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>
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Re: [LU] Bates: We've Turned A Corner

[Richard Naef]

>
>Do those of you closer to the "action" agree?
>

It's far too early to tell but having seen the last 3 games we've had 1
decent performance and 2 decidedly average, so actually not much different
from under Grayson.

But since fans have absolutely no idea what goes on outside of the 95
minutes that they see each week, we can't say if things have really changed
on the training pitch, in the atmosphere around the first team and where it
matters most, the players heads.

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[LU] Bates: We've Turned A Corner

[Nicholas Armit]

Do those of you closer to the "action" agree?
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Re: [LU] Bates' drivel (long)

[Nigel Sykes]

> Bates spoke on Yorkshire Radio this afternoon...

Well, that's me convinced!

Nigel

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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates' drivel (long)

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

This is all MS logic and he's a genius at it.
He has two very disturbing aims. Either   living in his world that he
understands everything. Here he is a an arrogant hypocrite with some
bizarre and rigid ideas and goals. In the other his basic plan is asset
stripping, cheating and playing smoke and mirrors with our assets.
He lives two basic lies and is prepared to lie and deceive in both.
When threatened  he attacks viciously. He never relates to the criticism or
lies exposed.
Grayson threatened him in many spheres. Grayson, maybe unwittingly exposed
the lies covering the asset stripping. So he was shot on the spot.
There was one very big flaw in MS diatribe about SG. Not its content. But
its timing.
Everything said was true one month ago. A canny, calculating c!nt like MS
would have taken SG out and installed another man in time to manipulate the
window.
If MS's priorities were primarily Leeds United and then his stake in Leeds
United [ legitimate in my eyes] and bearing in mind his opinion of SG this
is what should have happened. By his timing MS has shown that his first
priority are his stake in Leeds United namely asset stripping.
He is not prepared to delay any immediate gains unless it be to fuel his
first fantasy about   building Chelsea village at ER.
Even here he shows what a lying devious twat he is. For a guy who is so
penny wise-- why is he spending his money on developing property that is
not his? Unless it is his. Or that he stakes a claim on an indivisible part
of ER so that even if he finds a buyer for Leeds United he an milk them
over the rights to play at ER.
SG went for all the right reasons used in the wrong way to cover up MS
sinister plans and policies.


He then

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On 1 February 2012 23:35, DAVID NATTAN  wrote:

> If you could believe or trust a word that Bates says , and if any / all
> the facts are correct, then it does make sense .
>
> But since he is such a proven liar and cheat it is hard to accept
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> Bates spoke on Yorkshire Radio this afternoon and said that Grayson had
> spent plenty of money on player wages and has one of the largest squads in
> the championship.
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> PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate
>
>
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] Bates' drivel (long)

[DAVID NATTAN]

If you could believe or trust a word that Bates says , and if any / all the 
facts are correct, then it does make sense .

But since he is such a proven liar and cheat it is hard to accept


Dave




 
 


Bates spoke on Yorkshire Radio this afternoon and said that Grayson had spent 
plenty of money on player wages and has one of the largest squads in the 
championship.
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[LU] Bates' drivel (long)

[Nicholas Armit]

LUFC Bates explains reasons for sacking Grayson
* 
* 
* 
Leeds United chairman Ken Bates has explained the reason for sacking Simon 
Grayson today after three years at the club. 

Bates spoke on Yorkshire Radio this afternoon and said that Grayson had spent 
plenty of money on player wages and has one of the largest squads in the 
championship.

He also called a section of supporters 'nutters` makes a change from morons, 
for criticising the lack of investment in players.

Bates also states that Grayson had promised to win the club promotion this 
season when they chatted in November and with the club currently in tenth place 
in the championship and he could not understand why they are where they are.

Bates now feels the club need a fresh approach if they are to have any chance 
of making the end of season play offs with eighteen games remaining.

This is what the chairman had to say today whilst speaking on Yorkshire Radio:

"First of all we have to acknowledge that in the previous three seasons Simon 
got us to the play-off semi-finals, won us promotion the next year and last 
year we finished seventh.

"Contrary to some of the nutters on twitter we backed him all the way. The 
first time I said no to a player that Simon wanted to buy was last Thursday 
when he wanted to sign a player who was going to cost us £600,000 a year. I 
said, 'you`ve already got six centre backs` all of whom he has signed. 

"At 30, we have probably got one of the largest squads in the championship and 
a bigger squad than many clubs in the Premiership. Our wage budget was £9.5 
million this year and we have spent over £12 million. So these people who are 
blaming me for the results do not know what they are talking about.

"Every penny we have made from transfer fees as gone back into team on transfer 
fees or wages.

"If you sign a player on a free transfer on £500,000 a year on a three year 
contract you are committing up to £1.5 million, which is a tremendous amount of 
money. 

"We have six strikers and six centre backs and all of a sudden I cannot 
understand why any of them are not good enough. We have three teenagers in the 
back four.

"He is the manager and he decides who he wanted to buy. We as a club and me as 
chairman just authorise it. We just pay for it. The facts of the matter are we 
have conceded more goals than almost any other club in the championship has. 
Therefore we have reached as far as we can and the present system isn`t 
working. 

"We have got eighteen games to go, nine at home and nine away. We can still get 
into the play offs. I think automatic promotion is looking a bit remote. I 
think we need a fresh start, fresh attitude and we will move on."

Simon told me in November we were going to win promotion. These players have 
not become bad players overnight. 

"There is a problem somewhere and we do not know what it is. I am a little bit 
disappointed what Simon said after last night, when he said he was working 
within financial constraints, Jesus, he has spent nearly 30% over budget on 
players wages. Some people are banging on about loan players. Who scored the 
winner against us when played at the Emirates? It was a loan player wasn`t it. 
Thierry Henry.

"It is not a question of money we spend on transfer fees, it is the quality of 
player you get. He is a free player, free transfer. Do we pay £35 million for 
Carroll or £50 million for Torres? So money itself doesn`t mean anything. The 
important thing is the quality and value for money. What I do not understand is 
why we are where we are with what we have spent.

"Don`t forget, when we were beaten by Barnsley 4-1. Their wage bill was £4.5 
million and ours was £11.5 million, so we were clearly not getting value for 
money are we. So seeing as the present system is not working we need a fresh 
look. Having said that, thank you to Simon for what he has done and his two 
assistants but we have to move on."

Read 
more: http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=271415#ixzz1lADQegHU 
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[LU] Bates

[Nicholas Armit]

The guy really is a total twat:

Several hundred fans launched an angry protest against his leadership ahead of 
the recent home game with Ipswich following the sale of former skipper Jonny 
Howson, while anti-Bates chants were heard again during Tuesday night's 4-1 
home defeat to Birmingham.
But in his programme notes ahead of the game Bates, 80, said: "That in itself 
gives me more determination, more determination to achieve greater ambitions.
"I should explain that I first heard that chant on the day I arrived in this 
world. Being an awkward cuss even in those days, I was a bit reluctant to make 
my entry on to the world stage and my mum was having a somewhat slow delivery.
"Back then there was none of the modern technology there is today and the 
midwife and nurses were verbally urging her on.
"Thus it was at the moment I arrived, the first chanting I heard was 'Bates 
out!' as the staff urged my mother on. So, consequently, the current chanting 
is water off a duck's back."
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PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate

Re: [LU] not strictly LU - Bates in a song

[sinisterpicturesDB]

Cheers for that, I fkin despise ryan air. Here's one for him, get passengers to 
post their luggage to and from their destinations and put more seats in the 
hold. The tightwad's A380.


On 26 Oct 2011, at 14:00, DAVID NATTAN wrote:

> Being of a cultured disposition I was at the Lowry centre last night watching 
> Fascinating Aida - a comedy song troupe.
> Their opening number was all about companies using off shore tax havens to 
> avoid paying taxes - made mention of all the places KB hides his money , 
> Monaco, cayman isles, st kitts, zurich etc, and made mention of using shell 
> companies and the like. I just sat there thinking Ken Bates, Ken Bates.Anyway 
> the chorus of the song went something like.."find somewhere to hide 
> your bunce. Companies using nifty taxation systems, that's why it spells 
> C*NTS  !! Very apt I thought. Every time they sang the chorus I sang "Bates 
> Out" in my head
> *For those who have never heard of FA here is a link to their Ryanair 
> p*sstake which has gone viral on youtube (if you like this listen to dogging 
> song - very funny
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM&feature=related
> 
> 
> Dave
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[LU] not strictly LU - Bates in a song

[DAVID NATTAN]

Being of a cultured disposition I was at the Lowry centre last night watching 
Fascinating Aida - a comedy song troupe.
Their opening number was all about companies using off shore tax havens to 
avoid paying taxes - made mention of all the places KB hides his money , 
Monaco, cayman isles, st kitts, zurich etc, and made mention of using shell 
companies and the like. I just sat there thinking Ken Bates, Ken Bates.Anyway 
the chorus of the song went something like.."find somewhere to hide 
your bunce. Companies using nifty taxation systems, that's why it spells C*NTS  
!! Very apt I thought. Every time they sang the chorus I sang "Bates Out" in my 
head
*For those who have never heard of FA here is a link to their Ryanair p*sstake 
which has gone viral on youtube (if you like this listen to dogging song - very 
funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM&feature=related


Dave
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

Whats easier to do?
Buy a player or put out a spin meister with a shit story.
I thought we played with our cards to our chests!!

>From 365 cant be buggared to check:
*Maxi-Merked*
Speaking of Leeds and Max Gradel, we think Uncle Ken may have been merked.

Bates admitted himself that is was "not a particularly good deal for us",
but in trying to explain why Gradel was sold, said: "His agent came to see
(chief executive) Shaun Harvey and said: 'Max has got a chance to play in
the European Champions League or Europa League football.'"

Oh, well that's quite understandable, if you ignore that Gradel has been
saying for the past six months he'd like to stay at Leeds, and would sign a
contract if only the club offered him one, thus avoiding this whole sorry
mess.

However, Gradel signed for St Etienne, who unless there's been a serious
admin error, aren't in the Champions League. Or the Europa League. In fact,
they finished 10th in Ligue 1 last season.

Try again, Ken.
Dr Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist
---
myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT
http://www.myRay.com
--
Mental Health:
http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com

Auditing || Quality Control
http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/

Blog:
http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com



On 2 September 2011 17:24, Matt Anderson  wrote:

> Okstands by for verbal rocket from Israel
>
> If this is the case going after Collins and Bentley shows some ambition,
> some willingness to invest in quality and maybe even a willingness to get
> promotion!
>
> Maybe Bates isn’t so bad after all
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org]
> On Behalf Of Simon Austin
> Sent: 02 September 2011 15:16
> To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee
>
> And, on that note, on the Twitters from Duncan Castles of the Sunday Times:
>
> "Just under €2million was the fee Saint-Etienne paid for Max Gradel.
> Player got a very chunky pay rise out of it"
>
> According to Google the current exchange rate:
>
> 2 million Euros = 1.75801677 million British pounds
>
> And a few players we were supposedly after:
>
> "Been asked not to say [some names], but as I said yesterday there was an
> interest in [Danny] Collins."
>
> "Leeds were also in for at least two Premier League left backs but couldn't
> get deals through."
>
> "#LUFC were also in for David Bentley before West Ham offered him chance to
> stay in London."
>
> "That's correct. Puncheon deal was agreed until QPR came in for him and he
> pulled out."
>
> On 02/09/11 11:11, Simon Austin wrote:
> > Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's
> mouth...
> >
>
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Mark Tuffey]

I think OFTEN our love of Leeds overshadows the real lack of appeal both the 
club and city offer beyond the small regional area to players on the market. 
And I'm sure this is a hurdle on some level that money can't always overcome 
unless you are talking Risdale cash.
Cheers
Mark 
El Presidente Wisconsin Whites 
Leeds United 
Chicago Fire

  
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Matt Anderson]

Okstands by for verbal rocket from Israel

If this is the case going after Collins and Bentley shows some ambition, some 
willingness to invest in quality and maybe even a willingness to get promotion!

Maybe Bates isn’t so bad after all



-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Simon Austin
Sent: 02 September 2011 15:16
To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

And, on that note, on the Twitters from Duncan Castles of the Sunday Times:

"Just under €2million was the fee Saint-Etienne paid for Max Gradel.
Player got a very chunky pay rise out of it"

According to Google the current exchange rate:

2 million Euros = 1.75801677 million British pounds

And a few players we were supposedly after:

"Been asked not to say [some names], but as I said yesterday there was an 
interest in [Danny] Collins."

"Leeds were also in for at least two Premier League left backs but couldn't get 
deals through."

"#LUFC were also in for David Bentley before West Ham offered him chance to 
stay in London."

"That's correct. Puncheon deal was agreed until QPR came in for him and he 
pulled out."

On 02/09/11 11:11, Simon Austin wrote:
> Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's mouth...
>

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3871 - Release Date: 09/01/11

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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Simon Austin]

And, on that note, on the Twitters from Duncan Castles of the Sunday Times:

"Just under €2million was the fee Saint-Etienne paid for Max Gradel.
Player got a very chunky pay rise out of it"

According to Google the current exchange rate:

2 million Euros = 1.75801677 million British pounds

And a few players we were supposedly after:

"Been asked not to say [some names], but as I said yesterday there was
an interest in [Danny] Collins."

"Leeds were also in for at least two Premier League left backs but
couldn't get deals through."

"#LUFC were also in for David Bentley before West Ham offered him chance
to stay in London."

"That's correct. Puncheon deal was agreed until QPR came in for him and
he pulled out."

On 02/09/11 11:11, Simon Austin wrote:
> Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's mouth...
>

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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Joe Skinner]

You do normally pay a fee when loaning players, or as a minimum contribute or 
pay all their wages. So a £1m+ pot goes nowhere.

Doesn't really sound like a lot (for Max) considering (even if you factor in 
how unstable he is) he's been consistently our best player.

Plus, what Matt A says.
  
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Matt Anderson]

I did quickly read Bates pravda announcement but haven’t got it to hand but
I think he mentioned loan with a view to buy in January (like O'brian)

Which if you take the fact Bates said it away and pretend it was someone
good saying it sounds really sensible to me!

-Original Message-
From: Simon Austin [mailto:simon...@auzsoft.net] 
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:29
To: Kitching, Mark
Cc: Matt Anderson; leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

On 02/09/11 11:19, Kitching, Mark wrote:
> But that's the loan market,  we can't spend £1mill on a player in the loan
market.
>
> Suppose you could say he can use the pot for wages though.
>
>

Apparently there are also "loan fees" now too. So it is possible to spend in
the loan market... on top of wages.

- Si
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Simon Austin]

On 02/09/11 11:19, Kitching, Mark wrote:
> But that's the loan market,  we can't spend £1mill on a player in the loan 
> market.
>
> Suppose you could say he can use the pot for wages though.
>
>

Apparently there are also "loan fees" now too. So it is possible to
spend in the loan market... on top of wages.

- Si
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Kitching, Mark]

But that's the loan market,  we can't spend £1mill on a player in the loan 
market.

Suppose you could say he can use the pot for wages though.

BTW - Lansbury wen on loan to West Ham :(

-Original Message-
From: Matt Anderson [mailto:m...@leeds-united.net] 
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:19
To: Kitching, Mark; 'Simon Austin'; leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: RE: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

Until next week when the  loan market opens!

Not sure how true the henri Lansbury rumours were but he looked pretty decent 
last night for the U21s against the Azeri pub team

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Kitching, Mark
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:15
To: Simon Austin; leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've still 
got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that goes into 
Simon's (transfer) pot."

The pot that he can't spend now until January? Great.

MarkK

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Simon Austin
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:12
To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

Seems to be some confusion... the impression I got was the £1.75m was after the 
5% to the league and the 17.5% to Lester.

"We had to let him go (in the end); not that we wanted him to go. And it's not 
a particularly good deal for us; to be fair, we bought him for
£100,000 from Leicester and they had a 17.5 per cent sell-on. So the fee we 
get, they get 17.5 per cent.

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've still 
got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that goes into 
Simon's (transfer) pot."

>From http://bit.ly/rjZ8oF

Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's mouth...

- Si

On 02/09/11 10:39, John Boocock wrote:
> On 02/09/2011 09:53, Richard Walker wrote:
>> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester.
>
> and 5% to the FL
>
> ie £1,400,00 less the 100,000 we paid for him = £1,300,000 profit
>
> which will just about pay for "Lady Penelope". She is moored on the 
> east coast of Mallorca in the port of Cala Do'r directly in front of 
> the yacht club. She is currently valued at 1.3 million pounds 
> sterling, but offers over 1.2 million pounds sterling would be 
> considered
>
> get in there Batesy, you know you want to
>

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Information in this email including any attachments may be privileged, 
confidential and is intended exclusively for the addressee. The views expressed 
may not be official policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you 
have received it in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete 
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monitor all e-mail communication through our inte

Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Matt Anderson]

Until next week when the  loan market opens!

Not sure how true the henri Lansbury rumours were but he looked pretty
decent last night for the U21s against the Azeri pub team

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Kitching, Mark
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:15
To: Simon Austin; leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've
still got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that
goes into Simon's (transfer) pot."

The pot that he can't spend now until January? Great.

MarkK

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Simon Austin
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:12
To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

Seems to be some confusion... the impression I got was the £1.75m was after
the 5% to the league and the 17.5% to Lester.

"We had to let him go (in the end); not that we wanted him to go. And it's
not a particularly good deal for us; to be fair, we bought him for
£100,000 from Leicester and they had a 17.5 per cent sell-on. So the fee we
get, they get 17.5 per cent.

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've
still got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that
goes into Simon's (transfer) pot."

>From http://bit.ly/rjZ8oF

Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's mouth...

- Si

On 02/09/11 10:39, John Boocock wrote:
> On 02/09/2011 09:53, Richard Walker wrote:
>> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester.
>
> and 5% to the FL
>
> ie £1,400,00 less the 100,000 we paid for him = £1,300,000 profit
>
> which will just about pay for "Lady Penelope". She is moored on the 
> east coast of Mallorca in the port of Cala Do'r directly in front of 
> the yacht club. She is currently valued at 1.3 million pounds 
> sterling, but offers over 1.2 million pounds sterling would be 
> considered
>
> get in there Batesy, you know you want to
>

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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Kitching, Mark]

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've still 
got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that goes into 
Simon's (transfer) pot."

The pot that he can't spend now until January? Great.

MarkK

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Simon Austin
Sent: 02 September 2011 11:12
To: leedslist@gn.apc.org
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

Seems to be some confusion... the impression I got was the £1.75m was after the 
5% to the league and the 17.5% to Lester.

"We had to let him go (in the end); not that we wanted him to go. And it's not 
a particularly good deal for us; to be fair, we bought him for
£100,000 from Leicester and they had a 17.5 per cent sell-on. So the fee we 
get, they get 17.5 per cent.

"There's (also) a five per cent levy which goes to the league. But we've still 
got a substantial sum which is about 1.75m net over a year and that goes into 
Simon's (transfer) pot."

>From http://bit.ly/rjZ8oF

Of course one might not believe anything that comes out of Bates's mouth...

- Si

On 02/09/11 10:39, John Boocock wrote:
> On 02/09/2011 09:53, Richard Walker wrote:
>> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester.
>
> and 5% to the FL
>
> ie £1,400,00 less the 100,000 we paid for him = £1,300,000 profit
>
> which will just about pay for "Lady Penelope". She is moored on the 
> east coast of Mallorca in the port of Cala Do'r directly in front of 
> the yacht club. She is currently valued at 1.3 million pounds 
> sterling, but offers over 1.2 million pounds sterling would be 
> considered
>
> get in there Batesy, you know you want to
>

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confidential and is intended exclusively for the addressee. The views expressed 
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have received it in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete 
it from your system. You should not reproduce, distribute, store, retransmit, 
use or disclose its contents to anyone. Please note we reserve the right to 
monitor all e-mail communication through our internal and external networks. 
SKY and the SKY marks are trade marks of British Sky Broadcasting Group plc and 
are used under licence. British Sky Broadcasting Limited (Registration No. 
2906991), Sky Interactive Limited (Registration No. 3554332), Sky-In-Home 
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[John Boocock]

On 02/09/2011 09:53, Richard Walker wrote:

1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester.


and 5% to the FL

ie £1,400,00 less the 100,000 we paid for him = £1,300,000 profit

which will just about pay for "Lady Penelope". She is moored on the east 
coast of Mallorca in the port of Cala Do'r directly in front of the 
yacht club. She is currently valued at 1.3 million pounds sterling, but 
offers over 1.2 million pounds sterling would be considered


get in there Batesy, you know you want to

Betty

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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

Its not his business acumen
Its his morality and real aims.
The "how" of the Stoat is excellent.
The "what" is awful.

Dr Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist
---
myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT
http://www.myRay.com
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On 2 September 2011 12:33, McWilliams, Brendan, VF-Group (bmcwill) <
brendan.mcwilli...@vodafone.com> wrote:

> It does at least SOUND plausible...
>
> http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-n
> ews/leeds_united_gradel_s_deal_was_not_such_a_good_one_bates_1_3736224
>
> (now away to get my anti-flaming shield)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org]
> On Behalf Of Richard Walker
> Sent: viernes, 02 de septiembre de 2011 10:54
> To: Andrew Ewart; Leeds List
> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee
>
> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester.
>
> Brilliant business Mr Bates.
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Matt Anderson]

And 5% to the league in a levy!??!?!?  So £2.25m overall

On paper decent cash for a championship player in the last 40 games of his 
contract,  
On grass a devastating loss  of 10-15 goals and as many assists over the course 
of those games

But.  St Etienne are a big Ligue 1 club with a great history.  His roots 
are in France, the French league is getting better ( and could overtake Italy 
as number 4 in Europe if they spectacularly outperform them in Europe this 
year).  I don’t blame Gradel for going/wanting to go or us for selling.  If he 
had gone to West Ham I would have  been annoyed 

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On 
Behalf Of Andy Clayton
Sent: 02 September 2011 10:22
To: Richard Walker
Cc: Leeds List
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

£1.75m net.

Sent from my iPhone, apologies in advance for apple typo's.

On 2 Sep 2011, at 09:53, Richard Walker  wrote:

> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester. 
> 
> Brilliant business Mr Bates. 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Andrew Ewart 
> To: Leeds List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011, 7:36
> Subject: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee
> 
> http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253675
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No virus found in this message.
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[McWilliams, Brendan, VF-Group (bmcwill)]

It does at least SOUND plausible... 

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-n
ews/leeds_united_gradel_s_deal_was_not_such_a_good_one_bates_1_3736224

(now away to get my anti-flaming shield)

-Original Message-
From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org]
On Behalf Of Richard Walker
Sent: viernes, 02 de septiembre de 2011 10:54
To: Andrew Ewart; Leeds List
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester. 

Brilliant business Mr Bates. 
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Andy Clayton]

£1.75m net.

Sent from my iPhone, apologies in advance for apple typo's.

On 2 Sep 2011, at 09:53, Richard Walker  wrote:

> 1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester. 
> 
> Brilliant business Mr Bates. 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Andrew Ewart 
> To: Leeds List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011, 7:36
> Subject: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee
> 
> http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253675
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Re: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Richard Walker]

1.75 million with 17.5% going to Leicester. 

Brilliant business Mr Bates. 

- Original Message -
From: Andrew Ewart 
To: Leeds List 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011, 7:36
Subject: [LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253675
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[LU] Bates reveals Gradel fee

[Andrew Ewart]

http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253675
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Re: [LU] bates bating?

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

Great letter.
Michael
Dr Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist
---
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http://www.myRay.com
--
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On 21 August 2011 22:51, N If  wrote:

> OK, i know it's a bot corny leaping in with opinions from a couple of pre
> seasons and a couple of games on telly.but have been reading all the
> reports (thanks all, and Dave and Rich especially as ever) and the
> arguments.
>
> I've been a bit disappointed at the apparent lack of, not so much ambition,
> but ability to get that inspirational signing or two.  It does seem like
> we've been in for one or two decent players but been thwarted in those
> attempts.
> Apart from that, I wasn't so sure.We had a pretty good squad last
> season
> that was almost or  just about good enough to get into Prem. (I think we
> have a psychological problem as much as a defensive one that stalled us?).
>
> How much improvement did we need?
>
> I would take Snoddy and Max over what any other team has to offer.
>  I thought Schmeical was OK, thought had some weaknesses...losing him
> looked
> possibly questionable,
> centre mid coped but seemed could do with something (especially as we
> usually had an extra man in there).  Kilkenny and Johnson have gone, and I
> never completely rated either.  KK had some ability but didn't command or
> show up always, credit to Johnson for making the most of his limited
> qualities but hoped we could do better.
> Up frontdifficult one.  bechhio is a donkey BUT not only scores the
> goals (which is good enough on its own) but makes things happen, unsettles
> opposition and energises the crowd. Somma looked an exciting, underused
> talent.  Great goals ratio too.  Paynter and McCormack I'm less convinced
> by.  I do think Billy could have been the required target man, BUT he needs
> confidence and I don't think we can afford to give him the chance, I love
> McCormacks movement, how he changes the shape of what's opening up for the
> midfield, but he doesn't really deliver when on the ball.  I was at
> Doncaster last season when he and Somma linked up really well.  So, yes,
> I'd
> like a striker, but at our level, what is available?   I think experimental
> loans would have to be the answer there.
> The obvious problem was the back line.  I don't think anyone convinced.
>  Especially at centre back experience counts for a lot, but at our level,
> decent experienced centrebacks are only available as their physical powers
> are waning. Other options are bound to have their weaknesses, limitations
> or
> inexperience.  Again,probably loans or punts on the O Dea's probably as
> good
> as can be brought in?
>
> So, without West Ham or Leicester type of cash, what or who would I have
> liked/wanted SG or KB to bring in???
>
> We got:
> Transfers.  Keepers.  Early days but sounds like we have done well.
>  Schmikel sent off yesterday for two petulant yellows tells a story too.
>  Saw Stockdale let in 7 yesterday but looked excellent!  Trust our guy is
> as
> good or better.
> Brown.  Good call I'd say.  On paper a big improvement on Johnson (except
> for the occasisional left foot rocket).  Sounds like he's done OK. He plays
> a role that doesn't need to be noticed (as we all know by trying to explain
> the world class that Batty was).
> Loans. Keogh impressed me today.  I'd describe him as a better quality
> Bechhio.
> Returnees: we all have great hopes for Knis, probably not much better
> around
> in our league?  Nunez looks a real treat - suspect he might do a Max, hope
> so.
> The developing youth.  Early days but Clayton seems sensational.  I thought
> he did the job of both Kilkenny, Johnson, Livermore and perhaps Doyle all
> at
> once.  I remeber Delph bossing League One, I can see Clayton taking hold of
> this league's midfield.  How great will that be!  (btw I thought Howson
> played a great supporting role alongside him today).  Is Lees another
> Woodgate/Kilgallon...you are all writing him up.  If so, we have a strong
> CB
> pairing and a strong (if headless) spine.  Aidy White looks OK (sorry but
> Parker imo is poor).
>
>
> So...we were almost there last year, and seem imo to be better off this
> year. And Loans still to come.
>
> we easily outplayed Newcastle.  More objective reports suggest Sthmptn were
> good, their goals unusually hot and we were NOT so bad!  Boro was not lost
> for football, rather discipline reasons.  Bradford, typical underdogs,
> played out of their skins, woke us up, but we did, came back and won. Hull
> result may have papered over some cracks but a deserved win - and a rare
> margin for us), and I thought we matched "Prem quality" west Ham away
> brilliantly today in football (great passing) and in spirit

[LU] bates bating?

[N If]

OK, i know it's a bot corny leaping in with opinions from a couple of pre
seasons and a couple of games on telly.but have been reading all the
reports (thanks all, and Dave and Rich especially as ever) and the
arguments.

I've been a bit disappointed at the apparent lack of, not so much ambition,
but ability to get that inspirational signing or two.  It does seem like
we've been in for one or two decent players but been thwarted in those
attempts.
Apart from that, I wasn't so sure.We had a pretty good squad last season
that was almost or  just about good enough to get into Prem. (I think we
have a psychological problem as much as a defensive one that stalled us?).

How much improvement did we need?

I would take Snoddy and Max over what any other team has to offer.
 I thought Schmeical was OK, thought had some weaknesses...losing him looked
possibly questionable,
centre mid coped but seemed could do with something (especially as we
usually had an extra man in there).  Kilkenny and Johnson have gone, and I
never completely rated either.  KK had some ability but didn't command or
show up always, credit to Johnson for making the most of his limited
qualities but hoped we could do better.
Up frontdifficult one.  bechhio is a donkey BUT not only scores the
goals (which is good enough on its own) but makes things happen, unsettles
opposition and energises the crowd. Somma looked an exciting, underused
talent.  Great goals ratio too.  Paynter and McCormack I'm less convinced
by.  I do think Billy could have been the required target man, BUT he needs
confidence and I don't think we can afford to give him the chance, I love
McCormacks movement, how he changes the shape of what's opening up for the
midfield, but he doesn't really deliver when on the ball.  I was at
Doncaster last season when he and Somma linked up really well.  So, yes, I'd
like a striker, but at our level, what is available?   I think experimental
loans would have to be the answer there.
The obvious problem was the back line.  I don't think anyone convinced.
 Especially at centre back experience counts for a lot, but at our level,
decent experienced centrebacks are only available as their physical powers
are waning. Other options are bound to have their weaknesses, limitations or
inexperience.  Again,probably loans or punts on the O Dea's probably as good
as can be brought in?

So, without West Ham or Leicester type of cash, what or who would I have
liked/wanted SG or KB to bring in???

We got:
Transfers.  Keepers.  Early days but sounds like we have done well.
 Schmikel sent off yesterday for two petulant yellows tells a story too.
 Saw Stockdale let in 7 yesterday but looked excellent!  Trust our guy is as
good or better.
Brown.  Good call I'd say.  On paper a big improvement on Johnson (except
for the occasisional left foot rocket).  Sounds like he's done OK. He plays
a role that doesn't need to be noticed (as we all know by trying to explain
the world class that Batty was).
Loans. Keogh impressed me today.  I'd describe him as a better quality
Bechhio.
Returnees: we all have great hopes for Knis, probably not much better around
in our league?  Nunez looks a real treat - suspect he might do a Max, hope
so.
The developing youth.  Early days but Clayton seems sensational.  I thought
he did the job of both Kilkenny, Johnson, Livermore and perhaps Doyle all at
once.  I remeber Delph bossing League One, I can see Clayton taking hold of
this league's midfield.  How great will that be!  (btw I thought Howson
played a great supporting role alongside him today).  Is Lees another
Woodgate/Kilgallon...you are all writing him up.  If so, we have a strong CB
pairing and a strong (if headless) spine.  Aidy White looks OK (sorry but
Parker imo is poor).


So...we were almost there last year, and seem imo to be better off this
year. And Loans still to come.

we easily outplayed Newcastle.  More objective reports suggest Sthmptn were
good, their goals unusually hot and we were NOT so bad!  Boro was not lost
for football, rather discipline reasons.  Bradford, typical underdogs,
played out of their skins, woke us up, but we did, came back and won. Hull
result may have papered over some cracks but a deserved win - and a rare
margin for us), and I thought we matched "Prem quality" west Ham away
brilliantly today in football (great passing) and in spirit.
I predict we'll go through a dozen more defenders this season - hope one or
two fit the bill (remember Naylor and Sodje).  And a striker or two..(though
looking at the potency of our midfield I'd consider playing 4-6-0.

Sorry for going on so long.

Nif.
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[LU] Bates

[Dr Michael Benjamin]

I looked up Bates to see what the malignant Stoats origins are.
It means boatman.
Great-- I always thought he was more of a swain.
Anyhow this boatman has sunk in my opinion.
Bored stiff!!
Michael
Dr Michael Benjamin,
Community Psychiatrist
---
myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT
http://www.myRay.com
--
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[John Boocock]

On 09/08/2011 12:12, Leeds List wrote:

in an ideal world Bates dies in a fatal collision with Thatcher and the wrecked 
cars are hit by a plane carrying Bob Stokoe.


maybe Stokoe's ashes :-)
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[Leeds List]

Betty,
in an ideal world Bates dies in a fatal collision with Thatcher and the wrecked 
cars are hit by a plane carrying Bob Stokoe.

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Aug 2011, at 21:38, John Boocock  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 08/08/2011 18:59, Richard Walker wrote:
> ===
>> So what do folk think about the proposed Bates out protest on Satdi ?
>> 
>> I can't help thinking its not a good thing so early in the season especially
>> given our result at Southampton, however what else can the fans do ?
> 
> Boycotting Bate's cash machines are the only thing that hurts Bates.
> 
> It would take a superhuman effort by fans to do that as for many people it is 
> impossible to separate the football from Bates.  They see anything that hurts 
> the club (even if it removes Bates) as being anathema.
> 
> I think it will probably take the unlikely threat of something legal or a 
> very stupid/clever bastard who manages to but him out.
> 
> Looks like we will be waiting for an obit. in the Monaco Evening Post before 
> we see this sorted and even then it'll be a mess.
> 
> One thing I do know (and I think Bates doesn't, is that shrouds have deep 
> pockets)
> 
> Thatcher or Bates?  Who will go first?  And if you had the choice?
> 
> Betty
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[John Boocock]

On 08/08/2011 18:59, Richard Walker wrote:
===

So what do folk think about the proposed Bates out protest on Satdi ?

I can't help thinking its not a good thing so early in the season especially
given our result at Southampton, however what else can the fans do ?


Boycotting Bate's cash machines are the only thing that hurts Bates.

It would take a superhuman effort by fans to do that as for many people 
it is impossible to separate the football from Bates.  They see anything 
that hurts the club (even if it removes Bates) as being anathema.


I think it will probably take the unlikely threat of something legal or 
a very stupid/clever bastard who manages to but him out.


Looks like we will be waiting for an obit. in the Monaco Evening Post 
before we see this sorted and even then it'll be a mess.


One thing I do know (and I think Bates doesn't, is that shrouds have 
deep pockets)


Thatcher or Bates?  Who will go first?  And if you had the choice?

Betty
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[Tim Leslie]

He'll threaten to put up electric fences, like he did in the 80's at Chelsea!!

On 8 Aug 2011, at 20:04, Mark Tuffey  wrote:

> 
> I assume he faced the "Bates out!" chants at Chelsea toonow we just need 
> a rich Russian.
> Cheers
> Mark 
> El Presidente Wisconsin Whites 
> Leeds United 
> Chicago Fire
> 
> 
>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 19:49:06 +0100
>> From: ws.callag...@live.co.uk
>> To: richleed...@yahoo.co.uk; leedslist@gn.apc.org
>> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday
>> 
>> Just gonna have to wait till the old fkr dies I think... he won't give a 
>> shit about a few thousand fans shouting bates out..he probably thrives on 
>> that kind of thing... 
>> Regards
>> Wayne
> 
> 
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[Mark Tuffey]

I assume he faced the "Bates out!" chants at Chelsea toonow we just need a 
rich Russian.
Cheers
Mark 
El Presidente Wisconsin Whites 
Leeds United 
Chicago Fire


> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 19:49:06 +0100
> From: ws.callag...@live.co.uk
> To: richleed...@yahoo.co.uk; leedslist@gn.apc.org
> Subject: Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday
> 
> Just gonna have to wait till the old fkr dies I think... he won't give a shit 
> about a few thousand fans shouting bates out..he probably thrives on that 
> kind of thing... 
> Regards
> Wayne

  
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Re: [LU] Bates protest Saturday

[Wayne]

Just gonna have to wait till the old fkr dies I think... he won't give a shit 
about a few thousand fans shouting bates out..he probably thrives on that kind 
of thing... 
Regards
Wayne

Richard Walker  wrote:

>So what do folk think about the proposed Bates out protest on Satdi ?
>
>I can't help thinking its not a good thing so early in the season especially 
>given our result at Southampton, however what else can the fans do ? I hate 
>Bates more than anybody and the way he is running the club at the moment is a 
>disgrace. We can't take much more - he has alienated just about everyone and 
>just continues to stick two fingers up at anyone who dares to have a pop at 
>him. 
>Also, is there an alternative at the moment ? i think Bates may have us all by 
>the balls. 
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[LU] Bates protest Saturday

[Richard Walker]

So what do folk think about the proposed Bates out protest on Satdi ?

I can't help thinking its not a good thing so early in the season especially 
given our result at Southampton, however what else can the fans do ? I hate 
Bates more than anybody and the way he is running the club at the moment is a 
disgrace. We can't take much more - he has alienated just about everyone and 
just continues to stick two fingers up at anyone who dares to have a pop at 
him. 
Also, is there an alternative at the moment ? i think Bates may have us all by 
the balls. 
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[LU] Bates confirmed as Leeds owner....

[Lee D Jones]

...worst kept secret in world football is revealed:

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_6911956,00.html

 

Hadn't seen this posted today.

 

LDJ

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Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Damian Walsh]

The LUSC used to ("used to" - I've no idea these days) give the impression
that it was a rotten organisation that existed for the sole benefit of
certain of its members and officials. There were constant scandals about
murky finances, about unfair ticket allocation, about unwarranted secrecy
and about abuse of process. Living proof if you like that the "fans" were
just as incapable of conducting open and honest business as the evil
football directors.

Therein lies the rub. Most people who get actively involved in football
adminisrration - fans group or director - are not doing it for purely
altruistic reasons. Even a Jack Walker had his own agenda.

As a typical, powerless, fan you can only hope that the people who run your
game have interests that are aligned to yours. That Bates needs Leeds to win
things to maximise his profit and that the Peacock serves good beer to
maximise the SC profit.

And if you don't want to be a typical, powerless, fan - do something about
it. Full respect to those who set up AFC Wimbledon and United FC - they are
the future for "fans". No respect to those idiots who buy green & gold
scarves but keep on giving their money to the Glazers (;))

Damian
(ex-Chairman Benelux SC, see 1st paragraph)
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Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Michael ALCOCK]

*"The club want the option of setting out how tickets are distributed,
rather than letting a third party do it."*



I'm a member of LUSC London. I have no experience of other supporters club
or how they're run but we have no say on how tickets are distributed. The
secretary might apply for tickets on behalf of individual members of the
supporters club but that is it - we certainly don't automatically recieve
clumps of tickets to distribute as the club sees fit.



Most of the regulars are season ticket holders anyway so are members by
default, but as anyone who has applied for Sheffield United tickets knows
that doesn't guarantee you tickets for away matches.

The club exists to provide cheap travel to matches. For home games group
travel to leeds from London costs £38.50. A ticket bought on the day or a
couple of days before costs over £100. The supporters club allows people to
travel to matches who otherwise couldn't afford it. No one can argue that
isn't a good thing. My annual supporters club fee was £10.

So why didn't we become a members club? I can't speak for other members of
the club but when I voted at the AGM when this was raised I did so because
the members club rules said that all money left in the club coffers at the
end of the year went to Leeds United Football. Now, as I've already
mentioned, the SC has no say in distributing tickets. The secretary may
apply for tickets to individuals but they are all posted out to the
individuals concerned and the SC has no say in who gets what. We only exist
for cheap travel. If I organise a mini bus to travel to glastonbury festival
for me and some of my friends - we all chip in £50 say, and once we've paid
for petrol etc there's money left over, I wouldn't expect to be told by
Michael Eavis that I'm not welcome at Glastonbury unless I send him a cheque
for the left over amount would I? And I certainly wouldn't give him the
cash.

I've only recently joined the SC and I am aware that the ticket benefits
that they recieved under previous regimes was unfair. But now thats gone and
quite right too. My SC exists to enable people to travel to watch Leeds, and
make it easier on the pocket.

Why should Ken give us grief for that?

Because he makes more money out of members clubs.

Charging ridiculous amounts for a membership card when you're not guaranteed
a ticket puts off a lot of people going to watch Leeds. When I first started
going to watch Leeds (late 80s/early 90s) at least 20 or so lads that I knew
from Rothwell used to go regularly. Now they hardly go at all - because
membership is priced too highly.

Denigrating the SC is down to money. In the past Ken has claimed we’re not
transparent. Our accounts are discussed openly at our AGM every year. How
transparent is the football club? How much money did we make from the Man
U/Liverpool/Tottenham/Arsenal cup games? How much money did we get for
Delph? How much money is spent on players? Are we really making a profit?
How much does it cost to keep Thorpe Arch? Why do ticket prices go up every
year?

One last question – I know who ‘owns’ my supporters club. Everyone who is a
member. Who owns Leeds United Football Club?
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Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Rick Duniec]

I think (but I could be wrong) that SC branches always had some small level of 
membership fee and the branch always paid a small affiliation fee to the Centre 
plus a small amount per membership card issued. AFAIK there were NEVER and 
charges attached to tickets themselves by the SC.

There was a time that the club used the SC to control who was getting away 
tickets and this was very much in the interests of the club. Only a proportion 
of tickets went via this channel though. Max 30% AFAIK.
It seems that this was far from being a perfect arrangement and has produced 
some long standing antagonisms with the SC. No doubt there were abuses within 
that system but branches were each democratic organisations and some of them 
took action internally. In one case at least, a fairly high profile anti SC 
voice originally became disgruntled because his own branch kicked him out 
democratically - but you never hear him say this of course. Maybe some of these 
voices were actually the perpetrators of the abuses that they now claim took 
place but were caught out and dealt with by their members. I'd guess that you 
would have had to be a member of said branch to really know the ins and outs. 
It's a long time ago and I wasn't personally directly involved except for 
obtaining away tickets via the London branch SC and later the West Midlands 
branch. For that reason, my understanding of these ancient issues is a long way 
from being reliable.
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Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Richard Walker]

I'm not sure that the SC charged for the priviledge of joining pre-Bates. I've 
always had a season ticket so can't really remember but I think the membership 
pre-Bates was only set up to control who the tickets were going to ? They 
certainly didn't charge £30 or whatever Bates is charging now for the right to 
buy a ticket. Apparently there's nearly 40,000 members now at Leeds so it 
doesn't even guarantee you a ticket for the big games. It's a scandal and how 
do 
we know the money from the scheme goes back into the club ? I think it goes 
into 
Bates's pocket. 




- Original Message 
From: Sam Gibbard 
To: ri...@ntlworld.com; Leedslist (new) 
Sent: Sun, 13 March, 2011 3:32:43
Subject: Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again



"Don't mistake the Ken Bates Members Club for anything close to the valuable 
service LUSC offers. It's nothing more than a gimmick set-up to charge you 
extra 
for the privilege of booking tickets."                   Wasn't the 
Supporters Club doing the same thing before Bates introduced his own version? I 
joined the SC when I was living in London so I could get tickets, as far as I 
can see, the MC does the same thing, except all the money from the scheme goes 
back to the club? 
And when the people complained about Billy's Bar being for members only, I 
noticed that the SC did a similar thing at the Peacock with a "SC only" room. 
As 
for investing a heap of money into a lease on a pub in direct competition to 
the 
club's facilities, then you can see why Bates is annoyed.
I have to say that I am in the MC and think it is a good idea. So of course, my 
opinion is biased, as most of us are on this issue. 

I think that in the past, an organization like the SC had a real purpose, and 
did a hell of a lot of good. But there is simply no point in going head to head 
with the club over an issue that is never going to change. The club want the 
option of setting out how tickets are distributed, rather than letting a third 
party do it. Makes sense when you think about it. The MC system has also made 
lots of inroads into bringing fans together, with the Leeds on the Road events, 
providing memorabilia for fund raising, and providing centralised communication 
DIRECT to the club. 
That article says if you don't like the system, get involved and change it from 
within, well you could also argue you might get further if you do it through 
the 
Member's Club.
                        
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Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Rick Duniec]

>Don't mistake the Ken Bates Members Club for anything close to the valuable 
>service LUSC offers. It's nothing more than a gimmick set-up to charge you 
>extra for the privilege of booking tickets." Wasn't the Supporters Club doing 
>the same thing before Bates introduced his own version? I joined the SC when I 
>was living in London so I could get tickets, as far as I can see, the MC does 
>the same thing, except all the money from the scheme goes back to the club? 

How much did you pay for your SC membership ?
How much does a non-season ticket holder pay for membership of the Bates scheme 
?
What percentage of away tickets ever went via the SC ?
Nobody was ever forced to join the SC in order to obtain tickets AFAIK.
Isn't it true that it was simply easier for you to obtain tickets because the 
local branch of the SC did the leg-work for you ?
Joining the SC was an additional service that you opted to buy into.
You could still have applied directly to the club if that it what you had 
wanted to do.
Even if you were correct - and you are not - at least you say that the SC was 
doing it FIRST but then you say -
"But there is simply no point in going head to head with the club over an issue 
that is never going to change".
If anyone decoded to go "head to head" then it very clearly must have been 
Bates and it certainly was not (and still is not) the SC.

>"all the money goes back to the club"   

Are you comparing like with like and do you know how much the SC paid over to 
the club 
out of its very small membership fees ?
 
>And when the people complained about Billy's Bar being for members only, I 
>noticed that the SC did a similar thing at the Peacock with a "SC only" room. 

Your point would be fair if let's say only the rear third of Billy's Bar was 
for members only when in fact you can't get in at all if you are not a member.
Just as with the tickets above - you are misrepresenting the actual situation.

>As for investing a heap of money into a lease on a pub in direct competition 
>to the club's facilities, then you can see why Bates is annoyed.

The Peacock pub has always been there. The SC did not create a rival facility 
and it is just nonsense to try to make out that they did.
Bates can only be reasonably annoyed by the change of ownership if - either he 
wanted the pub himself or if he thought that it would close down.
The SC bought the lease because they wanted a "home" close to the ground. A 
location on club premises would have been preferable but the club didn't want 
to know.
Bates was annoyed because the SC did not simply hand over their bank account to 
him when he asked for it.
Since that time Bates put the club through administration so if the SC had 
given him all their funds it would have been like throwing it down the toilet.
It would have been 100% lost by the process of administration. Then SC members 
would really have grounds for criticism.

>I have to say that I am in the MC and think it is a good idea. So of course, 
>my opinion is biased, as most of us are on this issue. 

Based upon your arguments here, I think everyone would have to agree that you 
are certainly biased on this subject.
At the same time (and there is not necessarily any conflict in this) many might 
agree that the MC could be a good idea - depending upon how it is run and the 
benefits it offers. It is also a fact that large numbers of SC members are also 
MC members. 
Why do you wish to claim that most of us are biased on this issue ? Many of us 
are not. People can look at the facts and make a decision based on them. That 
does not make their opinion biased in any way. An opinion in opposition to the 
facts though, would certainly be biased.
If I had to make wild generalisation in the manner that you have done, my GUESS 
would be that most fans don't care either way.  I accept that this is not the 
same as your GUESS.

>I think that in the past, an organization like the SC had a real purpose, and 
>did a hell of a lot of good. But there is simply no point in going head to 
>head with the club over an issue that is never going to change. The club want 
>the option of setting out how tickets are distributed, rather than letting a 
>third party do it. Makes sense when you think about it. 

As far as I can tell, the tickets argument was redundant long ago. I haven't 
heard any arguments from the SC that the club should go back to supplying 
tickets via the SC. What I have heard is that SC branch secs would like the 
same ease of ordering tickets for their members as the RMC secs have at 
present. Makes sense when you think about it - unless your objective is to 
FORCE fans to join the members club. 

>The MC system has also made lots of inroads into bringing fans together, with 
>the Leeds on the Road events, providing memorabilia for fund raising, and 
>providing centralised communication DIRECT to the club. 

The LOR events could take place with or without the existence of a members 
club. The club could

Re: [LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Sam Gibbard]

"Don't mistake the Ken Bates Members Club for anything close to the valuable 
service LUSC offers. It's nothing more than a gimmick set-up to charge you 
extra for the privilege of booking tickets."                   Wasn't the 
Supporters Club doing the same thing before Bates introduced his own version? I 
joined the SC when I was living in London so I could get tickets, as far as I 
can see, the MC does the same thing, except all the money from the scheme goes 
back to the club? 
And when the people complained about Billy's Bar being for members only, I 
noticed that the SC did a similar thing at the Peacock with a "SC only" room. 
As for investing a heap of money into a lease on a pub in direct competition to 
the club's facilities, then you can see why Bates is annoyed.
I have to say that I am in the MC and think it is a good idea. So of course, my 
opinion is biased, as most of us are on this issue. 

I think that in the past, an organization like the SC had a real purpose, and 
did a hell of a lot of good. But there is simply no point in going head to head 
with the club over an issue that is never going to change. The club want the 
option of setting out how tickets are distributed, rather than letting a third 
party do it. Makes sense when you think about it. The MC system has also made 
lots of inroads into bringing fans together, with the Leeds on the Road events, 
providing memorabilia for fund raising, and providing centralised communication 
DIRECT to the club. 
That article says if you don't like the system, get involved and change it from 
within, well you could also argue you might get further if you do it through 
the Member's Club.
  
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[LU] Bates attacks the SC -- yet again

[Rick Duniec]

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2011/03/history-repeats-itself-as-bates-attacks-lusc/

It was back in 1997 when Ken Bates was still in charge of Chelsea that he first 
decided Supporter's Club were an unnecessary nuisance. The fact that some fans 
chose to join the societies that have for decades provided an independent voice 
for the fans, over Ken Bates' own initiative - a paid membership scheme of the 
club - you could argue was the primary source of his hatred.
In order to discredit the independent alternative of his paid membership 
scheme, Ken Bates set about destroying the reputation of the CISA (Chelsea 
Independent Supporters Association).
Not dissimilar to the Ken Bates we know today, hypocrisy was never a particular 
concern of his. First he questioned where the money from this unofficial club 
went, ignoring the fact no one knew where the £700k a year from Chelsea's 
supporters club went before using the club's media arm against the smaller and 
less well-funded CISA to manipulate the rest of fans and systematically turn 
them against the CISA by branding them cowards and raising totally unfounded 
accusations against them.
Propaganda is a powerful thing, something Ken Bates knows only too well. It 
didn't matter that the CISA held a yearly board meeting where there accounts 
were the primary discussion. It didn't matter that they hadn't been afforded 
the opportunity to respond. All that mattered was that Ken Bates had brought 
their existence into question. How supporters chose to interpret that 
information was down to them, Bates would argue, knowing only too well that the 
mere suggestion of wrong-doing was enough to discredit them and harm their 
organisation.
Clever stuff from the Bates regime. The media rarely got into battles with 
Bates because (like The Guardian at Elland Road) he'd just ban them from the 
stadium and deny them any access to the players and club. Any news and 
information required from the club came directly through Ken Bates, so 
manipulating the press wasn't difficult. Who was going to defend a small 
supporters club and risk a total ban on coverage from one of England's most 
famous clubs? In short, no one was.
Almost 15 years later and Bates is still at war with those that try and offer 
supporters an alternative to his membership scheme. This time, his target is 
the Leeds United Supporters Club (LUSC), an organisation that has spoken on 
behalf of it's members - the Leeds United fans - offering them an independent 
voice for many years now. Long before the day Ken Bates' regime rolled into 
town.
The tactics haven't changed much. He questions the existence of the club, and 
the profitability of The Peacock Pub they bought opposite Elland Road. He 
compares the profits made by the Peacock to those of Billy's Bar, failing to 
mention that The Peacock is run by and for the fans and whose business model 
doesn't involve extorting ridiculous sums of money from us for the inferior 
product sold within Elland Road.
Describing the Supporter's Club as 'a somewhat anonymous organisation' (much 
like Forward Sports Fund as MoscoWhite acutely added) he attempts to undermine 
them further by saying he's seen little evidence of their support of the club 
despite the claims they've made. This would be the same Supporter's Club that 
tried to build inroads into Bates-led Elland Road only to have the door slammed 
in their face by his Lordship.
Yep, fourteen years on and nothing has changed with Ken Bates.
Luckily for Leeds United fans, some things have changed since 1997. For one, 
The Square Ball Mag costing just £1 offers an alternative to Bates' propaganda 
in the Official Matchday programme, and whilst Ken Bates may control the 
official channels of news from Elland Road (Yorkshire Radio, The Official Site, 
The YEP who rarely challenge him), the internet has provided us with the 
opportunity to speak for ourselves.
Since Bates took over at Elland Road, the choice of Independent Leeds United 
sites has grown massively. And whilst none of the mainstream media will dare to 
cross swords with Mr. Chairman by standing up for LUSC, we most certainly will.
Whilst Ken Bates' regime may have been a success in some areas, his attempts to 
make the voice of Leeds United an inconsistent, mumbling cockney is not one of 
them. Organisations like the LUSC represent the average fan like you and me, 
offering an approachable source of opinion to the wider, national media. When 
the fans were concerned about the downfall of our club, it was the LUSC who 
these media outlets approached for reaction. In turn, they serve to offer the 
collective views and concerns of the fans and ensure our fears are heard.
They do other things too, like arrange matchday travel for those living further 
afield and provide facilities for their members in close proximity to Elland 
Road.
But for me, the real importance of these independent associations is the 
collective voice they offer. I don't want a Ken Ba