Re: playing with spirals

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Hey there Bill. ;-)
can you give us some more info on your turnings? what kind of wood were you 
using? what was the pitch you used??
I have found often, that using the wrong pitch on a project can really take 
away form the over all appearance of the project.Did you start with something 
in mind, or was it more, let see what we get if ??? ;-)
Have a good night.
C.A.G. 

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:29 PM, MWF  wrote:
 

 Bill,

Nice - Thanks for sharing.  
I'll have to look up that issue.  (I hope I have it.)
Mac

-Original Message-
From: Bill Bulkeley 
Sent: Nov 15, 2017 8:34 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: playing with spirals

  Time fora new topic.    Had somefun in my shop making different spirals with 
the same pitch and router bitsthese 3 spirals were done with magnates  
CombinationBarley Twist bits 
https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1160235    Makes some cool large 
spirals by stopping at different intervalsof the job. You first make a 2 start 
spiral then mill out one spiral to formthe large single start barley the blank 
was 6 inch square about 3ft long.    How to do it was in volume 2 of the old 
legacy magazines     Bill  
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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

HEY one min. here!"As to that agenda, for those new to this google group, you 
should know that it was founded but a competitor of Legacy's and his 
supporters.  They illegally used our name and product descriptions to lure 
people searching the web for "Legacy Ornamental Mills" into the group in order 
to discredit Legacy and steal our potential customers. Cowardly and unethical 
behavior indeed and ultimately ineffective.  These are the people calling our 
behavior into question and they are the most outspoken in your group. By the 
way, that company no longer exists buts its supporters continue on with their 
agenda."
WHAT! Art and I started this group, there was no competitors, but owners of 
the Legacy Ornamental Mill, who needed more support. I e-mailed over 400 people 
asking them if they wanted to help us learn and grow in there OWN woodworking,  
By the way of the using the Legacy,Ornamental, Mill.
Andy.  I am so very sorry, your information is so Very WRONG here. that I feel 
the need to correct the mistake before it runs to far.
I do agree that Manors are so very important,  And We have had a few people who 
were ask to stop posting.
Everyone is welcome to there own opinion, be it right or wrong (according to 
your own point of view.) I can agree to dis-agree, but slander and trolling  is 
NOT welcome here. I am glad to hear your point of view, and you are always 
welcome to post anything you like, but in this one case you are mistaken.Thank 
you ..C.A.G. 

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:14 PM, Tim  wrote:
 

 Passing on another response from Andy...


I neglected to address one issue that I saw in the thread yesterday and I 
wanted to clarify a few things.  I don't take or process phone orders.  The 
only time I'll end up on the phone with a customer is if he or she is a friend, 
or has a difficult question that someone else on the staff can't answer, or I 
end up on the phone with those customers that are rude, crude, abusive, curse, 
or have no manners.  I've instructed the two women that answer the phone, my 
mom who is in her eighties, and my wife, that if they encounter this kind of 
behavior to send these calls directly to me.
Usually the offending caller realizes the error of his ways, apologizes to me 
and my staff, and we carry on as if nothing happened.  I realize that we all 
get frustrated and angry but most civilized people are embarrassed when the 
realize they've been harassing my 80 year old mother and calm down quickly. 
There are a handful of callers that are too arrogant or ignorant to back down 
and apologize.  I explain to these people that, as this is still a free 
country, I reserve the right not to do business with them and send them 
packing. 
I recognize some of the names in this thread as people on my "list".  Of course 
it's easier to claim that I won't sell you a particular item then to admit that 
you were an ass and treated the female members of my staff badly.  You don't 
want to tell the whole story just the part that fits the agenda your pushing.
As to that agenda, for those new to this google group, you should know that it 
was founded but a competitor of Legacy's and his supporters.  They illegally 
used our name and product descriptions to lure people searching the web for 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" into the group in order to discredit Legacy and steal 
our potential customers. Cowardly and unethical behavior indeed and ultimately 
ineffective.  These are the people calling our behavior into question and they 
are the most outspoken in your group. By the way, that company no longer exists 
buts its supporters continue on with their agenda.
If Legacy were guilty of everything these folks claim we are then we would have 
been out of business long ago but we are not.  We are growing and developing 
new and better woodworking systems. Our products can be found in some of the 
finest companies in the world.  We've shipped machine into every corner of the 
world and if you will take the trouble to do a little research you will find 
that we have very happy customers.  We are not perfect, but we spend an awful 
lot of time and money supporting our customers.
In the 80's we pioneered the use of training project videos to teach people how 
to use our equipment. No other woodworking tool manufacturer in the world took 
the time or spent the money to produce this kind of training. An archive of 
these videos has been collected by Tim and one way we still support out 
customers by allowing this "Legacy owned" material to be distributed freely and 
many are available on YouTube.  Today we use YouTube to support our CNC 
customers.  We currently have more than 300 training videos online covering 
topics from 3d model design, CAD/CAM software, machine setup, tooling, 
clamping, and G-Code. Less than 10% of the videos we have produced are sales 
videos describing our products. Over 18,000 subscriber to our YouTube channel 
turn to Legacy 

Re: playing with spirals

[MWF]

Bill,Nice - Thanks for sharing.  I'll have to look up that issue.  (I hope I have it.)Mac-Original Message-
From: Bill Bulkeley 
Sent: Nov 15, 2017 8:34 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: playing with spirals








 

 
  
 




Time for
a new topic.

 

Had some
fun in my shop making different spirals with the same pitch and router bits
these 3 spirals were done with magnates  Combination
Barley Twist bits https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1160235

 

Makes some cool large spirals by stopping at different intervals
of the job. You first make a 2 start spiral then mill out one spiral to form
the large single start barley the blank was 6 inch square about 3ft long.

 

How to do it was in volume 2 of the old legacy magazines 

 

Bill












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A follow up response to comments made by members of this group.

[Andy Anderson]

I neglected to address one issue that I saw in the thread yesterday and I 
wanted to clarify a few things.  I don't take or process phone orders.  The 
only time I'll end up on the phone with a customer is if he or she is a 
friend, or has a difficult question that someone else on the staff can't 
answer, or I do end up on the phone with those customers that are rude, 
crude, abusive, curse, or have no manners.  I've instructed the two women 
that answer the phone, my mom who is in her eighties, and my wife, that if 
they encounter this kind of behavior to send these calls directly to me.


Usually the offending caller realizes the error of his ways, apologizes to 
me and my staff, and we carry on as if nothing happened.  I realize that we 
all get frustrated and angry but most civilized people are embarrassed when 
the realize they've been harassing my 80 year old mother and calm down 
quickly. There are a handful of callers that are too arrogant or stubborn 
to back down and apologize.  I explain to these people that, as this is 
still a free country, I reserve the right not to do business with them, and 
I send them packing. They go on my "list".


I recognize some of the names in the latest thread as people on my "list".  
Of course it's easier to claim that I won't sell you a particular item then 
to admit that you were an ass and treated the female members of my staff 
badly.  You don't really want to tell the whole story, just the part that 
fits the agenda your pushing.


As to that agenda, for those new to this google group, you should know that 
it was founded but a competitor of Legacy's and his supporters.  They 
illegally used our name and product descriptions to lure people searching 
the web for "Legacy Ornamental Mills" into the group in order to discredit 
Legacy and poach potential customers for a newly designed CNC routing 
system with a 4th axis designed and built by the founding member of this 
group. Cowardly and unethical behavior in my opinion.  These are some of 
the people calling our behavior into question. They, in fact, are some of 
the most outspoken members of your group. By the way, that company no 
longer exists buts its supporters continue on with their agenda. To his 
credit Tim has tried to steer this group away from it's founding member 
purposes and transform it into a genuine legitimate support group for OM 
owners.  I haven't pursued legal action or asked Google to dissolve this 
group yet and you all have Tim and Roger to thank for that.  They've 
persuaded me that more good than harm is being done within the group but 
the past week has made me question the wisdom of that decision.


If Legacy were guilty of everything these folks claim we are then we would 
have been out of business long ago but we are not.  We are growing and 
developing new and better woodworking systems. Our products can be found in 
some of the finest companies in the world.  We've shipped machines into 
every corner of the world and if you will take the time to do a little 
research you will find that we have very happy customers and they are 
making a lot of money.  We are not perfect, I know that, but we spend an 
awful lot of time and money supporting our customers.


In the 80's we pioneered the use of training project videos to teach people 
how to use our equipment. No other woodworking tool manufacturer in the 
world took the time or spent the money to produce this kind of training. An 
archive of these videos has been collected by Tim and one way we still 
support out customers is by allowing this "Legacy owned" material to be 
distributed freely. We now use YouTube to support our CNC customers.  We 
currently have more than 300 training videos online covering topics from 3d 
model design, CAD/CAM software, machine setup, tooling, clamping, and 
G-Code. Less than 10% of the videos we have produced are sales videos 
describing our products. Over 18,000 subscriber to our YouTube channel turn 
to Legacy for help and guidance with their CNC questions every week because 
the manufactures of their CNC woodworking equipment are giving them NO 
after the sale support. This year we will produce another 60 to 70 new 
training/project videos for our customers and for the CNC woodworking world 
at large. We give every customer that purchases one of our CNC systems 2 
days of FREE, hands on, factory training.  We travel to cities all over the 
country producing hands on workshops where potential customers can come and 
"kick the tires" and get a first hand look at our products before they make 
their purchases.  You have to have your head buried in the sand to be 
unaware of all of this. To make to the kind of uninformed statements found 
in the latest thread you have to have an agenda or willingly ignore the 
world around you. 


You are probably on my "no sale list".  You are probably an arrogant soul 
determined to ignore reality and embrace a fantasy. A fantasy where you are 
a victim and 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Tom Dotta]

Hi Tim et al

I'm not a very active participant or user though I do have three mills. An
old steel rail machine bought from a cabinet shop, a 900 bought from Legacy
and a 1200 bought from a private individual. As Tim says above if Legacy is
monitoring the group it would seem little more effort (expense) to make a
list of what is available for purchase together with whom to contact there
to make the purchase. Licensing a reliable and willing person to make other
replacement parts seems reasonable. Though personally disappointed in what
has been represented as Legacy's position re the manual machines it seems
just a bit of give on both sides could resolve the issues to the benefit of
all. I'm sure neither side truly wants the other to fail.

CheersTom Dotta

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Tim Krause  wrote:

> Russ, there's no need to forward your message as the groups messages are
> being monitored by Legacy.
>
> -Tim
>
> --
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> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
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RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Tim Krause]

Russ, there's no need to forward your message as the groups messages are being 
monitored by Legacy.

-Tim 

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RE: Purchasing LOM's

[Russ Veinot]

Very well said Curt.  Kinda what I said the other day,  most parts from Legacy 
are too much (for what it is).  I see my LOM the same way as any other machine 
in my shop.  I can make the machine better (add-on accessories and design 
changes) and if I need a part, I buy it when reasonably priced or make it 
myself for pennies on the dollar when not available or cost too much.  

 

Russ

 

 

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:14 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Purchasing LOM's

 

Hello Richard.

For the price, I would look outwards, instead of buying another Legacy just for 
its rail's to make your REVO longer.  

Why not look at something that can be use instead of the alum. rail? 

80/20 sells alum. rail that might work for you? 

I replaced my lower rails on my Legacy with Uni-strut years ago. (long story 
..., but I did it was for a job that I was doing for someone else. I ended up 
keeping it that way more or less.)

You know you could do pretty much like I did. buy some ( brand X) rail and use 
the rail from the Revo to extend your Revo... 

That way you don't throw out the baby with the bath water, (so to speak) but 
replace only what is necessary. 

 

I think finding the acme screw is going to be much harder to find then the 
rail. that is if you want apples-apples. the 5/8"x4 acme screw is VERY Hard to 
find. but a 5/8"x8 is a common and very easy screw to find. Perhaps??? you 
might look at the idea going with a new screw all together?

 

I wish you luck on your endeavors.  Remember there is almost always more then 
one way to get any job done.

talk to you more latter.

 

C.A.G.  

 

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:57 AM, Richard Ellis  
wrote:

 

I have two LOM's One is the old Woodchuck, it does what I want it to do, I put 
a motor drive to the spindle vari-speed. made it even better

The Revo Craftsman-- nice little machine and more fun to use, Much better for 
seeing what I am doing, I have powered both the leadscrew and the 
spindle.--Hate turning those handles.

If only they had made the Revo a little longer!!?   I am now looking to 
purchase a 900, to swap the rails and leadscrew from one to the other,

 

The seller wants far too much for the 900 and I am going to feel very guilty 
when I make him an offer, no doubt he will refuse, and the machine will gather 
dust again. The U,K market, is small compared to the U,S,A, 

 

 I have the horrible feeling that when it comes time to sell up, I am 83 in 
March, there will be no buyers. And all will go to the tip.

It appears that most folk who have purchased from the U.K. agent, Regret it, 
and leave the LOM's gathering dust 

 

I welcome comments from Roger, and others on my thoughts,

Richard

 

 

I

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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go 
together  . And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, 
The LOM 's I have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get 
someone local to make them.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
>
>
> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest that, for the sake of the group and all OM owners, it's time to 
> clean house. 
>
>
> Andy Anderson, Legacy Woodworking Machinery
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Purchasing LOM's

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Hello Richard.For the price, I would look outwards, instead of buying another 
Legacy just for its rail's to make your REVO longer.  Why not look at something 
that can be use instead of the alum. rail? 80/20 sells alum. rail that might 
work for you? I replaced my lower rails on my Legacy with Uni-strut years ago. 
(long story ..., but I did it was for a job that I was doing for someone else. 
I ended up keeping it that way more or less.)You know you could do pretty much 
like I did. buy some ( brand X) rail and use the rail from the Revo to extend 
your Revo... That way you don't throw out the baby with the bath water, (so to 
speak) but replace only what is necessary. 
I think finding the acme screw is going to be much harder to find then the 
rail. that is if you want apples-apples. the 5/8"x4 acme screw is VERY Hard to 
find. but a 5/8"x8 is a common and very easy screw to find. Perhaps??? you 
might look at the idea going with a new screw all together?
I wish you luck on your endeavors.  Remember there is almost always more then 
one way to get any job done.talk to you more latter.
C.A.G.   

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:57 AM, Richard Ellis 
 wrote:
 

 I have two LOM's One is the old Woodchuck, it does what I want it to do, I put 
a motor drive to the spindle vari-speed. made it even betterThe Revo 
Craftsman-- nice little machine and more fun to use, Much better for seeing 
what I am doing, I have powered both the leadscrew and the spindle.--Hate 
turning those handles.If only they had made the Revo a little longer!!?   I am 
now looking to purchase a 900, to swap the rails and leadscrew from one to the 
other,
The seller wants far too much for the 900 and I am going to feel very guilty 
when I make him an offer, no doubt he will refuse, and the machine will gather 
dust again. The U,K market, is small compared to the U,S,A, 
 I have the horrible feeling that when it comes time to sell up, I am 83 in 
March, there will be no buyers. And all will go to the tip.It appears that most 
folk who have purchased from the U.K. agent, Regret it, and leave the LOM's 
gathering dust 
I welcome comments from Roger, and others on my thoughts,Richard

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RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Russ Veinot]

Tim, please forward this to Andy,

 

As a LOM owner for more than a decade, one of the first members of this group, 
and as a Youtube content provider about the LOM (makes me sound important, 
doesn’t it :>), I think I am entitled to an opinion without hiding behind 
“extension 11” or a third party email.  If Andy has something to say about 
individuals here he should speak out himself.  I take exception to his saying 
that “some” are not telling truths.  I defy him to show me (and everyone here) 
where “I” have made an incorrect statement about Legacy or about the LOM 
machine either on this forum or on any of my videos.  Lumping all of us into 
one negative statement through a third party says it all about how he has 
treated this group (and me as an individual customer) over the years.

 

His company should have had (why haven’t he?) an active (and positive) 
participant in this group to help us understand issues  and suggestions talked 
about here a long time ago.  I for one would love a (fair and balanced) rep 
from the company participating here, otherwise I say (again) Good Riddance and 
keep your “second party” opinions to yourself.

 

Russ

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Krause
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:48 PM
To: Legacy Group
Subject: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

 

 

I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  

 Forwarded Message  






 

 

 

 

Dear Tim,

 

I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.   

 

Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570

 

If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people to 
join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you. 

 

Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a place to find 
the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out in our 
conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people who don't 
really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do damage.  

 

The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put in 
jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy I am 
supposed to give them whatever they want.   

 

A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me not to 
others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how many 
potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
were frightened off by these 

Re: Purchasing LOM's

[Richard Ellis]

Roger
 Please don't get upset, It was not intention to blame you as to why   the 
owners don't use them ,that is the majority. *I THINK*
I have made quite a lot of items and in fact I am in my shed most days, 
Having put drive motors to both of my machines they are a O.K. to use now,
I did not like turning handles .
Lets not fall out over a misplaced word here and there --When I said 
AGENT I did not mention your name I was just trying to say sold/bought in 
the U.K.
Richard 
PS are you going to the Harrogate show on Sunday?? Scroll saw viewing, I am 
thinking of scroll sawing -less mess in my shed

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 11:48:13 AM UTC, ITwoodwork wrote:
>
> ​
> Hi Richard
>
> Regarding your comment "It appears that most folk who have purchased from 
> the U.K. agent, Regret it, and leave the LOM's gathering dust".
>
> Let me enlighten you regarding the sale of generic Ornamental Mills i.e. 
> the ones sold in the USA by Sears & Roebuck and in the UK by Trend Ltd.
>
> A good few years ago I made the comment to a senior person in one of those 
> companies that I thought that many of their machines were purchased, used 
> once or twice, and then put aside.  I thought the percentage would be about 
> 30% were sidelined. He informed me that I was well off target as they 
> reckoned it was nearer 90%, I know how he did his calculation and it was 
> very realistic. 
>
> ​So now if you look at the 100 or so Legacy machines that I sold in the UK 
> then I guess that some of them are gathering dust. 
>
> I hope you were not implying that they regretted buying them from me, a 
> public grovelling apology would be acceptable together with a pot of gold 
> rather than spending money on legal fees!!
>
> May I suggest you go out in your own workshop and count up the number of 
> products you have bought over the years and not used. Strangely Wayne Mack 
> and I were doing that same exercise not more than twelve hours ago.  He did 
> not have any Legacy manual machines on his shelf, he has sold them and 
> moved on successfully to Legacy CNCs. 
>
> Time to see if you Richard belong to that same group of folks who bought 
> and then never  used it!​
>
> Cheers
>
> Roger
> ​
> From: Richard Ellis
> Received: 15/11/2017 07:57:25 +00:00
> To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
> I have two LOM's One is the old Woodchuck, it does what I want it to do, I 
> put a motor drive to the spindle vari-speed. made it even better
> The Revo Craftsman-- nice little machine and more fun to use, Much better 
> for seeing what I am doing, I have powered both the leadscrew and the 
> spindle.--Hate turning those handles.
> If only they had made the Revo a little longer!!?   I am now looking to 
> purchase a 900, to swap the rails and leadscrew from one to the other,
>
> The seller wants far too much for the 900 and I am going to feel very 
> guilty when I make him an offer, no doubt he will refuse, and the machine 
> will gather dust again. The U,K market, is small compared to the U,S,A, 
>
>  I have the horrible feeling that when it comes time to sell up, I am 83 
> in March, there will be no buyers. And all will go to the tip.
> It appears that most folk who have purchased from the U.K. agent, Regret 
> it, and leave the LOM's gathering dust 
>
> I welcome comments from Roger, and others on my thoughts,
> Richard
>
>
> I
>
> -- 
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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

Tim
My Father used to say to me " Read mark learn and inwardly digest " I have 
read the message from Andy and my opinion  of Legacy does not alter, The 
emails I sent re parts were never answered, Once bitten twice shy. Oh! well 
I Have indigestion now???!!! 
I manage quite well now and if I need help I look to this group, or members 
of the group by private email, they always get answered and quickly too
Sorry Andy but I hope the CnC's keep your company afloat. 
Richard

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
>
>
> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest