Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Ooops On my research of North Carolina, United States, the actual register is photocopied. I just assumed that all states were done the same way. - Original Message - From: Kaled Sec To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I must say I am not a big fan of how we are encouraged to use repository / source / citations in Legacy. Ideally I would prefer to refer to the GRO as the repository, an individual birth certificate as a source and some useful infromation as the citation (for example 'named as father...', 'showed to reside at...', 'showed to have occupation...'). An additional benefit of this is that a scanned artifact (ie birth certificate) can be linked just once, to the source. But I like Legacy non the less. ...Kaled On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Jenny M Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Elizabeth Richardson wrote So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of Nevada Index? For any website such as Ancestry I have no problem with a citation along the lines of "Ancestry.com, citing the State of Nevada Index." I haven't a clue about what goes on in Nevada, but in England and Wales, there are often several copies of BMD Indexes from the GRO and different websites might be using scans of different copies so I think it is important to say where I found the copy of the Index I am citing. -- Jenny M Benson ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: 'Legacy2008' at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: 'Legacy2008' at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: =*!Legacy2008=*" at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Jennifer - I shouldn't post messages when tired. In looking at my last message yesterday I realize my source was constructed somewhat differently than yours as listed below. We both used the same template; however, in the Credit Line I entered the source listed by Ancestry.com: citing Nevada State Heath Division and so on. Think it is important to know at a glance where their information was gathered so we can more adequately judge credibility. I want to use the marriage book information such as you added but need to put it somewhere -- perhaps after the entry for Joe Blow and Jane Doe -- but don't want to use the word "citing" again. Will play around with it some more. Thanks for your input Kay Jennifer said: "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867. - Original Message - From: "Jennifer Trahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Hi, Kay! I used the Internet>Database template and put Ancestry.com as the Website title and not the Website Creator. I left Website creator blank. I wonder if this is just a bug in the template or if there is some reason Website creator does not show up in a footnote. I may have to check out my Mills EE book again. Jennifer - Original Message From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:52:52 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Jennifer - I have a question on your second example below (index with no image). The citation I created was in the same format; however, the creator of the database, Ancestry.com, was not included between "database" and "(http://www.ancestry.com/search)" in the endnote/footnote even though I entered them as the webpage creator. They did show up in the bibliography entry; i.e., "database, Ancestry.com (http://www - - -)." Which Source Writer template did you use? Thanks, Kay ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
I must say I am not a big fan of how we are encouraged to use repository / source / citations in Legacy. Ideally I would prefer to refer to the GRO as the repository, an individual birth certificate as a source and some useful infromation as the citation (for example 'named as father...', 'showed to reside at...', 'showed to have occupation...'). An additional benefit of this is that a scanned artifact (ie birth certificate) can be linked just once, to the source. But I like Legacy non the less. ...Kaled On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Jenny M Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Elizabeth Richardson wrote > >> So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library >> as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via >> Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of >> Nevada Index? >> > > For any website such as Ancestry I have no problem with a citation along > the lines of "Ancestry.com, citing the State of Nevada Index." > > I haven't a clue about what goes on in Nevada, but in England and Wales, > there are often several copies of BMD Indexes from the GRO and different > websites might be using scans of different copies so I think it is important > to say where I found the copy of the Index I am citing. > -- > Jenny M Benson > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. > Use coupon code: 'Legacy2008' at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** > Legacy User Group guidelines: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > Archived messages: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp > > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Elizabeth Richardson wrote So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of Nevada Index? For any website such as Ancestry I have no problem with a citation along the lines of "Ancestry.com, citing the State of Nevada Index." I haven't a clue about what goes on in Nevada, but in England and Wales, there are often several copies of BMD Indexes from the GRO and different websites might be using scans of different copies so I think it is important to say where I found the copy of the Index I am citing. -- Jenny M Benson ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Elizabeth, Sorry, I may have phrased my previous response somewhat loosely! In the case you raise, I'd cite that copy of that edition of that book as my source since I had examined that copy of that the book. Other editions of the book may have different information for all I know. Any reference to a source the author had used would be commented on, but not entered as my source until I had checked that particular source myself. You may be satisfied that what you've looked at on Ancestry.com is the 'original State of Nevada Index', but I've been in a situation where microfilm which was stated to be of 'official' creation was not and was, in fact, erroneous (not deliberately I hasten to add). I fully realise many may consider that I'm being overcautious. My own preference. As I said before, we may have to agree to differ on this one. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Richardson Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:00 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of Nevada Index? Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Let me give you all a way to list the source...using Rootsweb as an example and using their sub topic "metasearch" for say henry pedersen..and you found some data use the following Rootsweb Meta Search (On line: The Generations Network, Inc, 2005), http://resources.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/metasearch , examined for any reference to 1st name Henry and last name Pedersen, accessed 12 Oct 2008. that is your source "nothing more and nothing less" now your notes to do research you need to prove that source but your source for the data you just aquired is as listed above. Richard > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:43:39 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> > Richard:> > I have to disagree somewhat. The Nevada Marriage Index at Ancestry.com is strictly an index and does not contain images. Therefore, it is not *exactly* like the US census records. When you cite digital images, it is different than citing an index or transcription. But I do cite Ancestry.com in both citations so that I know where to go back to find the digital image or index entry.> And I would also say that Ancestry.com is the originator of that particular database, though Nevada is the originator of the information that is part of the database. Ancestry formatted that information to suit its customers'> needs and physically created the database, so I think it would be> incorrect to give Nevada credit for the database. > > All:> > I don't understand how any can say that they've seen the original State of Nevada index at Ancestry.com. As the OP said, Ancestry took two indexes and created one database with both of them. Also, the entries I've researched in that particular index at Ancestry.com do not have images of the original two indexes. It is strictly a transcription. Are there other entries that have images of the index? In that case, then you would be citing a digital image of an index and you could put the State of Nevada or Clark County as the author of the index. It would look something like this:> > Clark County, Nevada, Marriage Index Book 210: 25, Smith-Jones; Marriage Bureau, Las Vegas; digital image, "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Aug 2008). > > If you were just looking at the index with no image on Ancestry.com, then you would do something more like this:> > "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867.> > Jennifer> > > > > - Original Message > From: Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:00:13 PM> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as > the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via > Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of > Nevada Index?> > Elizabeth> researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson> > > - Original Message - > From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:26 PM> Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > > Elizabeth,> > Does this get back to the argument that 'my source' is where I found the > information, rather than where the information was, as far as can be deduced > from the information available to me, originally created.> > It may be a personal preference, but I maintain my source is where I got the > information. As far as I'm concerned, anything else is hearsay (albeit > written) until I've checked it out.> > In the case below, It is highly probable that the data was created by > Nevada, but until the records at Nevada are checked out, it is not certain > that such data has been transferred accurately. Perhaps this could be > covered by the surety level, but I'm would not be happy with that.> > We may have to agree to differ on this one.> > Bill> > -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth > Richardson> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:47 PM> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves.> The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by > Ancestry. The index was creat
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Source info... if gotten from Ancestry that is you source... it is a database name the source, name the owner of the site, URL, date last verified by the site. While the source isn't the real document it still is your source means you then need to go to their source yourself before you can accurately state the information is correct... many things can happen in between... you cannot add Nevada to the true source until you have verified it for yourself. repeat ...you should also make notes if you are getting your information from the actual document or a transcription etc... Remember there can be transmission problems of various sorts between Nevada and Ancestry. Ancestry is no different than Uncle Bob's data ...it is a clue in your verification of the data you are looking foryou are the detective and you must build your case with each clue until you have the actual fact. true if ancestry states it and you have several other sources which state it then it becomes fairly certain, unless they all are using the same source and then all may be wrong. you become the detective and lawyer presenting your case for that data. You can not just be satisfied with one third party or second party source that is why the software lets you put more than one source for the data so you can determine the information you put into your tree. Richard > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:26:44 +0100> > Elizabeth,> > Does this get back to the argument that 'my source' is where I found the information, rather than where the information was, as far as can be deduced from the information available to me, originally created.> > It may be a personal preference, but I maintain my source is where I got the information. As far as I'm concerned, anything else is hearsay (albeit written) until I've checked it out.> > In the case below, It is highly probable that the data was created by Nevada, but until the records at Nevada are checked out, it is not certain that such data has been transferred accurately. Perhaps this could be covered by the surety level, but I'm would not be happy with that.> > We may have to agree to differ on this one.> > Bill> > -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Richardson> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:47 PM> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. > The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. > Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository.> > Elizabeth> researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson> > - Original Message -> From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM> Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > > Rich,> > Sorry, I disagree.> > Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com > has changed the record created by Nevada.> > The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - > Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, > until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked.> > Isn't Genealogy fun!!> > Bill> > -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD > SCHULTHIES> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is > that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created > from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada > and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the > example for US census records, changing the obvious differences.> Rich in LA CA> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question> > To: "Legacy User Group" > > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe> > 7.0.0.55 Build> >> > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I> > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence> > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestr
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Hi, Kay! I used the Internet>Database template and put Ancestry.com as the Website title and not the Website Creator. I left Website creator blank. I wonder if this is just a bug in the template or if there is some reason Website creator does not show up in a footnote. I may have to check out my Mills EE book again. Jennifer - Original Message From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:52:52 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Jennifer - I have a question on your second example below (index with no image). The citation I created was in the same format; however, the creator of the database, Ancestry.com, was not included between "database" and "(http://www.ancestry.com/search)" in the endnote/footnote even though I entered them as the webpage creator. They did show up in the bibliography entry; i.e., "database, Ancestry.com (http://www - - -)." Which Source Writer template did you use? Thanks, Kay - Original Message - From: "Jennifer Trahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Richard: I have to disagree somewhat. The Nevada Marriage Index at Ancestry.com is strictly an index and does not contain images. Therefore, it is not *exactly* like the US census records. When you cite digital images, it is different than citing an index or transcription. But I do cite Ancestry.com in both citations so that I know where to go back to find the digital image or index entry. And I would also say that Ancestry.com is the originator of that particular database, though Nevada is the originator of the information that is part of the database. Ancestry formatted that information to suit its customers' needs and physically created the database, so I think it would be incorrect to give Nevada credit for the database. All: I don't understand how any can say that they've seen the original State of Nevada index at Ancestry.com. As the OP said, Ancestry took two indexes and created one database with both of them. Also, the entries I've researched in that particular index at Ancestry.com do not have images of the original two indexes. It is strictly a transcription. Are there other entries that have images of the index? In that case, then you would be citing a digital image of an index and you could put the State of Nevada or Clark County as the author of the index. It would look something like this: Clark County, Nevada, Marriage Index Book 210: 25, Smith-Jones; Marriage Bureau, Las Vegas; digital image, "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Aug 2008). If you were just looking at the index with no image on Ancestry.com, then you would do something more like this: "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867. Jennifer ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: ‘Legacy2008’ at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Jennifer - I have a question on your second example below (index with no image). The citation I created was in the same format; however, the creator of the database, Ancestry.com, was not included between "database" and "(http://www.ancestry.com/search)" in the endnote/footnote even though I entered them as the webpage creator. They did show up in the bibliography entry; i.e., "database, Ancestry.com (http://www - - -)." Which Source Writer template did you use? Thanks, Kay - Original Message - From: "Jennifer Trahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Richard: I have to disagree somewhat. The Nevada Marriage Index at Ancestry.com is strictly an index and does not contain images. Therefore, it is not *exactly* like the US census records. When you cite digital images, it is different than citing an index or transcription. But I do cite Ancestry.com in both citations so that I know where to go back to find the digital image or index entry. And I would also say that Ancestry.com is the originator of that particular database, though Nevada is the originator of the information that is part of the database. Ancestry formatted that information to suit its customers' needs and physically created the database, so I think it would be incorrect to give Nevada credit for the database. All: I don't understand how any can say that they've seen the original State of Nevada index at Ancestry.com. As the OP said, Ancestry took two indexes and created one database with both of them. Also, the entries I've researched in that particular index at Ancestry.com do not have images of the original two indexes. It is strictly a transcription. Are there other entries that have images of the index? In that case, then you would be citing a digital image of an index and you could put the State of Nevada or Clark County as the author of the index. It would look something like this: Clark County, Nevada, Marriage Index Book 210: 25, Smith-Jones; Marriage Bureau, Las Vegas; digital image, "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Aug 2008). If you were just looking at the index with no image on Ancestry.com, then you would do something more like this: "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867. Jennifer ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
And tney will try to create all the templates, as soon as Ancestry stops making them (bite my tongue). I am only pointing out that Legacy is not stopping and saying 'we made all the 'types' we need, but adding more tools as quick as possible. May it never end. Rich in LA CA --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Steve Voght <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Steve Voght <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 1:55 PM > I have to agree with William -- in this case the index was > explicitly > created by Ancestry. True, they used some else's data > to compile it, but > there is no such thing as a "Nevada Marriage > Index" in either Clark County > or the State of Nevada archives... instead there are pieces > of this index in > three different locations, which have been compiled > together to create this > index, which is not available elsewhere. > > In this case I think there are two options available -- > first you could cite > Ancestry.com as the source of the data (and paste the info > about their > sources into the comments tab), or you could separate out > the source into > two different sources, with Ancestry as the repository. In > that case, you > need to know if the data you are sourcing originally came > from Clark County > records, or from State of Nevada records... and I don't > know if Ancestry is > specific enough with individual entries for you to make > that determination > (though obviously if the marriage took place outside of > Clark Co., it must > be the State records.) > > This is the one big problem I have with SourceWriter when > it comes to > Ancestry "index" style databases -- oftentimes > there simply isn't a good > match! (for instance, how do you source a Birth Index? > It's obviously a > birth record, but there is simply no choice for text > databases of birth > registers at the state/provincial level, which is > essentially what an index > is.) > > It would be great if someone at Legacy (or anyone for that > matter) actually > went through all the types of databases available at > Ancestry and compiled a > best-practices list for what source template to use for > each type of > database, because right now it seems as if they're > using the Mills book to > design this, without actually looking at what exists in the > real world. > > -Steve > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth Richardson < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > True, this is an index only, not the marriage record > documents themselves. > > The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and > was not created by > > Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada > and Clark County. > > Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the > index, it is the > > repository. > > > > Elizabeth > > researching the descendants of William and Sarah > (Patterson) Thompson > > > > - Original Message - From: "William > Anderson" < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM > > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > > > > > Rich, > > > > Sorry, I disagree. > > > > Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just > possible that Ancestry.com > > has changed the record created by Nevada. > > > > The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been > viewed - Ancestry.com > > - with mention of the sources they say they are > relying on, until such time > > as the 'original' source is personally > checked. > > > > Isn't Genealogy fun!! > > > > Bill > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of RICHARD > > SCHULTHIES > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM > > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > > > I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the > database, Nevada is > > that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or > transcriptions that it created > > from the data. It charges for access to that file. But > you can go to Nevada > > and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room > not included). Use the > > example for US census records, changing the obvious > differences. > > Rich in LA CA > > > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From: Kay Fordha
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
I will agree with what you said. I have no information about what format the 'Nevada' stuff is, photocopy or transcript. Transcripts are much more changable than a photo of a document by the 'owner'. Rich in LA CA --- On Fri, 10/24/08, William Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: William Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 1:39 PM > Rich, > > Sorry, I disagree. > > Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible > that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. > > The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been > viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say > they are relying on, until such time as the > 'original' source is personally checked. > > Isn't Genealogy fun!! > > Bill > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the > database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies > and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It > charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada > and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not > included). Use the example for US census records, changing > the obvious differences. > Rich in LA CA > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > To: "Legacy User Group" > > > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy > 7 Deluxe > > 7.0.0.55 Build > > > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today > and love it. I > > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, > "Evidence > > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com > database entitled "Nevada > > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) > their database > > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; > (2) Nevada > > State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada > Marriage Index, > > 1966-2005 . > > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, > Clark County > > Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this > database. > > I like to know > > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the > Detail section > > "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In > "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing > > this used in some of the image examples but not in > other databases. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > Kay Fordham > > > > > > > > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. > >Use coupon code: ‘Legacy2008’ at > checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 > > ** Legacy User Group guidelines: > >http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > > Archived messages: > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > > Online technical support: > > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > > To unsubscribe: > > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. >Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires > 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: >http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > Archived messages: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > Online technical support: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > To unsubscribe: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp > > > > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. >Use coupon code: ‘Legacy2008’ at checkout. Offer > expires 10/31/08 ** > Legacy User Group guidelines: >http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > Archived messages: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > Online technical support: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > To unsubscribe: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Jennifer - Thanks for including the two examples below. My initial question involved citing the source of the source as indicated in your example of an index/database with no images. I found inconsistencies in "Evidence Explained" where the source of the source was cited in one such case and not in another, and so I requested confirmation to ensure I understood the methodology. One needs to know where Ancestry got the data -- from state records or who knows where. This is how one decides credibility. Kay - Original Message - From: "Jennifer Trahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Richard: I have to disagree somewhat. The Nevada Marriage Index at Ancestry.com is strictly an index and does not contain images. Therefore, it is not *exactly* like the US census records. When you cite digital images, it is different than citing an index or transcription. But I do cite Ancestry.com in both citations so that I know where to go back to find the digital image or index entry. And I would also say that Ancestry.com is the originator of that particular database, though Nevada is the originator of the information that is part of the database. Ancestry formatted that information to suit its customers' needs and physically created the database, so I think it would be incorrect to give Nevada credit for the database. All: I don't understand how any can say that they've seen the original State of Nevada index at Ancestry.com. As the OP said, Ancestry took two indexes and created one database with both of them. Also, the entries I've researched in that particular index at Ancestry.com do not have images of the original two indexes. It is strictly a transcription. Are there other entries that have images of the index? In that case, then you would be citing a digital image of an index and you could put the State of Nevada or Clark County as the author of the index. It would look something like this: Clark County, Nevada, Marriage Index Book 210: 25, Smith-Jones; Marriage Bureau, Las Vegas; digital image, "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Aug 2008). If you were just looking at the index with no image on Ancestry.com, then you would do something more like this: "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867. Jennifer ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
When I make a new source from Ancestry, I go below the search page and there is the source cited. If I go to the record, the specific citation is listed. I just felt like getting rid of my two cents worth. It does get heavy after a while. :) - Original Message - From: "Wynthner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Ancestry has a copy of the original two indexes- note plural but they then combined those into ONE database and indexed that database so yes- Amazon did create the database that allows you to view the original pages of the original two indexes. --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:47 PM True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: "Legacy User Group" > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe > 7.0.0.55 Build > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada > State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, > 1966-2005 . > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County > Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. > I like to know > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section > "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing > this used in some of the image examples but not in other databases. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Kay Fordham > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: 'Legacy2008' at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Richard: I have to disagree somewhat. The Nevada Marriage Index at Ancestry.com is strictly an index and does not contain images. Therefore, it is not *exactly* like the US census records. When you cite digital images, it is different than citing an index or transcription. But I do cite Ancestry.com in both citations so that I know where to go back to find the digital image or index entry. And I would also say that Ancestry.com is the originator of that particular database, though Nevada is the originator of the information that is part of the database. Ancestry formatted that information to suit its customers' needs and physically created the database, so I think it would be incorrect to give Nevada credit for the database. All: I don't understand how any can say that they've seen the original State of Nevada index at Ancestry.com. As the OP said, Ancestry took two indexes and created one database with both of them. Also, the entries I've researched in that particular index at Ancestry.com do not have images of the original two indexes. It is strictly a transcription. Are there other entries that have images of the index? In that case, then you would be citing a digital image of an index and you could put the State of Nevada or Clark County as the author of the index. It would look something like this: Clark County, Nevada, Marriage Index Book 210: 25, Smith-Jones; Marriage Bureau, Las Vegas; digital image, "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Aug 2008). If you were just looking at the index with no image on Ancestry.com, then you would do something more like this: "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005," database, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com/search : accessed 12 Oct 2008), entry for Victor L, King and Betty J. Hackett, 10 Feb 1998; citing Nevada Marriage Book 210: C923786, no. 71867. Jennifer - Original Message From: Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:00:13 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of Nevada Index? Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Elizabeth, Does this get back to the argument that 'my source' is where I found the information, rather than where the information was, as far as can be deduced from the information available to me, originally created. It may be a personal preference, but I maintain my source is where I got the information. As far as I'm concerned, anything else is hearsay (albeit written) until I've checked it out. In the case below, It is highly probable that the data was created by Nevada, but until the records at Nevada are checked out, it is not certain that such data has been transferred accurately. Perhaps this could be covered by the surety level, but I'm would not be happy with that. We may have to agree to differ on this one. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Richardson Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:47 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or tr
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Ancestry has a copy of the original two indexes- note plural but they then combined those into ONE database and indexed that database so yes- Amazon did create the database that allows you to view the original pages of the original two indexes. --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:47 PM > True, this is an index only, not the marriage record > documents themselves. > The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not > created by > Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and > Clark County. > Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the > index, it is the > repository. > > Elizabeth > researching the descendants of William and Sarah > (Patterson) Thompson > > - Original Message - > From: "William Anderson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > > Rich, > > Sorry, I disagree. > > Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible > that Ancestry.com > has changed the record created by Nevada. > > The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been > viewed - > Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they > are relying on, > until such time as the 'original' source is > personally checked. > > Isn't Genealogy fun!! > > Bill > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of RICHARD > SCHULTHIES > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the > database, Nevada is > that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions > that it created > from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you > can go to Nevada > and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not > included). Use the > example for US census records, changing the obvious > differences. > Rich in LA CA > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > To: "Legacy User Group" > > > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy > 7 Deluxe > > 7.0.0.55 Build > > > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today > and love it. I > > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, > "Evidence > > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com > database entitled "Nevada > > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) > their database > > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; > (2) Nevada > > State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada > Marriage Index, > > 1966-2005 . > > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, > Clark County > > Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this > database. > > I like to know > > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the > Detail section > > "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In > "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing > > this used in some of the image examples but not in > other databases. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > Kay Fordham > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
So, Bill, when you look at a book at the library, do you cite the library as the source? I have looked at the original State of Nevada Index via Ancestry.com. Why would I need to go to Carson City to cite the State of Nevada Index? Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Elizabeth, Does this get back to the argument that 'my source' is where I found the information, rather than where the information was, as far as can be deduced from the information available to me, originally created. It may be a personal preference, but I maintain my source is where I got the information. As far as I'm concerned, anything else is hearsay (albeit written) until I've checked it out. In the case below, It is highly probable that the data was created by Nevada, but until the records at Nevada are checked out, it is not certain that such data has been transferred accurately. Perhaps this could be covered by the surety level, but I'm would not be happy with that. We may have to agree to differ on this one. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Richardson Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:47 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question To: "Legacy User Group" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe 7.0.0.55 Build Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005." Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, 1966-2005 . . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. I like to know from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing this used in some of the image examples but not in other databases. Thanks for any suggestions. Kay Fordham ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Elizabeth, Does this get back to the argument that 'my source' is where I found the information, rather than where the information was, as far as can be deduced from the information available to me, originally created. It may be a personal preference, but I maintain my source is where I got the information. As far as I'm concerned, anything else is hearsay (albeit written) until I've checked it out. In the case below, It is highly probable that the data was created by Nevada, but until the records at Nevada are checked out, it is not certain that such data has been transferred accurately. Perhaps this could be covered by the surety level, but I'm would not be happy with that. We may have to agree to differ on this one. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Richardson Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:47 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: "Legacy User Group" > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe > 7.0.0.55 Build > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada > State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, > 1966-2005 . > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County > Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. > I like to know > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section > "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing > this used in some of the image examples but not in other databases. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Kay Fordham > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Obviously, we disagree. If you access the original image and you will see that it is the government index, not a transcription. (format of this reply changed from html to text) Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: Steve Voght To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I have to agree with William -- in this case the index was explicitly created by Ancestry. True, they used some else's data to compile it, but there is no such thing as a "Nevada Marriage Index" in either Clark County or the State of Nevada archives... instead there are pieces of this index in three different locations, which have been compiled together to create this index, which is not available elsewhere. In this case I think there are two options available -- first you could cite Ancestry.com as the source of the data (and paste the info about their sources into the comments tab), or you could separate out the source into two different sources, with Ancestry as the repository. In that case, you need to know if the data you are sourcing originally came from Clark County records, or from State of Nevada records... and I don't know if Ancestry is specific enough with individual entries for you to make that determination (though obviously if the marriage took place outside of Clark Co., it must be the State records.) This is the one big problem I have with SourceWriter when it comes to Ancestry "index" style databases -- oftentimes there simply isn't a good match! (for instance, how do you source a Birth Index? It's obviously a birth record, but there is simply no choice for text databases of birth registers at the state/provincial level, which is essentially what an index is.) It would be great if someone at Legacy (or anyone for that matter) actually went through all the types of databases available at Ancestry and compiled a best-practices list for what source template to use for each type of database, because right now it seems as if they're using the Mills book to design this, without actually looking at what exists in the real world. -Steve On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question To: "Legacy User Group" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe 7.0.0.55 Build Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005." Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, 1966-2005 . . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. I like to know from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section "Citing numbers 2
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
I have to agree with William -- in this case the index was explicitly created by Ancestry. True, they used some else's data to compile it, but there is no such thing as a "Nevada Marriage Index" in either Clark County or the State of Nevada archives... instead there are pieces of this index in three different locations, which have been compiled together to create this index, which is not available elsewhere. In this case I think there are two options available -- first you could cite Ancestry.com as the source of the data (and paste the info about their sources into the comments tab), or you could separate out the source into two different sources, with Ancestry as the repository. In that case, you need to know if the data you are sourcing originally came from Clark County records, or from State of Nevada records... and I don't know if Ancestry is specific enough with individual entries for you to make that determination (though obviously if the marriage took place outside of Clark Co., it must be the State records.) This is the one big problem I have with SourceWriter when it comes to Ancestry "index" style databases -- oftentimes there simply isn't a good match! (for instance, how do you source a Birth Index? It's obviously a birth record, but there is simply no choice for text databases of birth registers at the state/provincial level, which is essentially what an index is.) It would be great if someone at Legacy (or anyone for that matter) actually went through all the types of databases available at Ancestry and compiled a best-practices list for what source template to use for each type of database, because right now it seems as if they're using the Mills book to design this, without actually looking at what exists in the real world. -Steve On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth Richardson < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. > The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by > Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. > Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the > repository. > > Elizabeth > researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson > > - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > > Rich, > > Sorry, I disagree. > > Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com > has changed the record created by Nevada. > > The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com > - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time > as the 'original' source is personally checked. > > Isn't Genealogy fun!! > > Bill > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD > SCHULTHIES > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM > To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > > I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is > that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created > from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada > and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the > example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. > Rich in LA CA > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question >> To: "Legacy User Group" >> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe >> 7.0.0.55 Build >> >> Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I >> have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence >> Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada >> Marriage Index, 1956-2005." >> Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database >> Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada >> State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, >> 1966-2005 . >> . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County >> Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . >> >> Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. >> I like to know >> from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section >> "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing >&
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
True, this is an index only, not the marriage record documents themselves. The original image of the index is at Ancestry, and was not created by Ancestry. The index was created by the State of Nevada and Clark County. Rich is correct, Ancestry is NOT the originator of the index, it is the repository. Elizabeth researching the descendants of William and Sarah (Patterson) Thompson - Original Message - From: "William Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question To: "Legacy User Group" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe 7.0.0.55 Build Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005." Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, 1966-2005 . . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. I like to know from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing this used in some of the image examples but not in other databases. Thanks for any suggestions. Kay Fordham ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
Rich, Sorry, I disagree. Whilst I agree that it is unlikely, it is just possible that Ancestry.com has changed the record created by Nevada. The source, at this juncture, has to be what has been viewed - Ancestry.com - with mention of the sources they say they are relying on, until such time as the 'original' source is personally checked. Isn't Genealogy fun!! Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RICHARD SCHULTHIES Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyfamilytree.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: "Legacy User Group" > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM Using Legacy 7 Deluxe > 7.0.0.55 Build > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and love it. I > have a question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, "Evidence > Explained." I'm citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their database > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) Nevada > State Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage Index, > 1966-2005 . > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark County > Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. > I like to know > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail section > "Citing numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence Explained" I'm seeing > this used in some of the image examples but not in other databases. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Kay Fordham > > > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. >Use coupon code: ‘Legacy2008’ at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 > ** Legacy User Group guidelines: >http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > Archived messages: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > Online technical support: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > To unsubscribe: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: Legacy2008 at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question
I disagree. Ancestry.com is not the originator of the database, Nevada is that. Ancestor owns the photocopies and/or transcriptions that it created from the data. It charges for access to that file. But you can go to Nevada and make your own copies (plane fare and hotel room not included). Use the example for US census records, changing the obvious differences. Rich in LA CA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kay Fordham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [LegacyUG] Source Writer Question > To: "Legacy User Group" > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 5:08 PM > Using Legacy 7 Deluxe 7.0.0.55 Build > > Tried the new Source Writer for the first time today and > love it. I have a > question about it relating to E. Shown-Mills, > "Evidence Explained." I'm > citing an Ancestry.com database entitled "Nevada > Marriage Index, 1956-2005." > Ancestry.com, in their Source Information, cites (1) their > database > Ancestry.com Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . .; (2) > Nevada State > Health Division, Office of Vital Records, Nevada Marriage > Index, 1966-2005 . > . . .; and (3) Clark County Nevada Marriage Bureau, Clark > County Nevada > Marriage Index, 1956-2005 . . . . > > Obviously Ancestry.com is the originator of this database. > I like to know > from whence their data comes. Should I use in the Detail > section "Citing > numbers 2 and 3 above." In "Evidence > Explained" I'm seeing this used in > some of the image examples but not in other databases. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Kay Fordham > > > > > ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. >Use coupon code: ‘Legacy2008’ at checkout. Offer > expires 10/31/08 ** > Legacy User Group guidelines: >http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > Archived messages: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ > Online technical support: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > To unsubscribe: > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp ** $10 OFF when you spend $50 or more in our store. Use coupon code: �Legacy2008� at checkout. Offer expires 10/31/08 ** Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
