Re: Matt, how do I review your docs?

[Matt Wilkie]

> Am I correct in assuming that the only changed docs are in this tree:
>
>   LeoDocs.leo#Leo's Documentation-->Installing & running Leo-->@rst 
> html/installing.html
>

Yes
 

> I can see, via diffs on the branch pages, that checking out your branches 
> probably shows me the new words, but it's extremely hard to see what the 
> actual changes are/were in Leo.
>

Umm. I was hoping you had some magic here! Having problems visualizing the 
changes in Leo is what led me to create branches. Let me see if I can get 
exporting to html working.

matt

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Terry Brown]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 21:43:39 -0600
Terry Brown  wrote:

> which includes a fully functional read / write web GUI to a Leo
> instance ;-)

p.s. I'm fairly sure it won't run in Internet Explorer or NCSA
Mosaic :-)  Chrome and Firefox work.

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Terry Brown]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 06:48:25 -0600
"Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
 
> ​There is a link to this in the first (summary) comment of Leo issue
> #684 . It has
> influenced my thinking considerably.

I've added

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/684#issuecomment-363992724

which includes a fully functional read / write web GUI to a Leo
instance ;-)

Cheers -Terry

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Re: Pyenchant does *not* work for Windows 64-bit systems

[lewis]

I had pyenchant 1.6.8 installed. I uninstalled it.

Leo fails to load with this error, when pyenchant is not installed:

N:\git\leo-editor>launchleo.py

reading settings in N:\git\leo-editor\leo\config\leoSettings.leo
reading settings in C:\Users\lewis\.leo\myLeoSettings.leo
Empty setting name in False
set parent @settings

Leo 5.7b1, build 20180205170654, Mon Feb  5 17:06:54 CST 2018
Git repo info: branch = master, commit = c8e13c3bccdc
Python 3.6.4, PyQt version 5.10.0
Windows 10 AMD64 (build 10.0.16299) SP0
** isPython3: True
** caching enabled

reading settings in C:\Users\lewis\.leo\workbook.leo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\launchLeo.py", line 8, in 
leo.core.runLeo.run()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\runLeo.py", line 74, in run
g.app.loadManager.load(fileName, pymacs)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 2204, in load
ok = lm.doPostPluginsInit()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 2836, in 
doPostPluginsInit
c1 = lm.openEmptyWorkBook()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 2897, in 
openEmptyWorkBook
c = lm.loadLocalFile(fn, gui=g.app.gui, old_c=None)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 3062, in loadLocalFile
c = lm.openFileByName(fn, gui, old_c, previousSettings)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 3086, in openFileByName
previousSettings=previousSettings)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 1543, in newCommander
return leoCommands.Commands(fileName, relativeFileName, gui, 
previousSettings)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoCommands.py", line 82, in __init__
c.finishCreate()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\core\leoCommands.py", line 415, in 
finishCreate
c.frame.log.finishCreate()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\plugins\qt_frame.py", line 3146, in 
finishCreate
c.spellCommands.openSpellTab()
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\commands\spellCommands.py", line 173, in 
openSpellTab
self.handler = SpellTabHandler(c, tabName)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\commands\spellCommands.py", line 414, in 
__init__
self.spellController = EnchantClass(c)
  File "N:\git\leo-editor\leo\commands\spellCommands.py", line 32, in 
__init__
if language and not enchant.dict_exists(language):
AttributeError: module 'enchant' has no attribute 'dict_exists'

I changed to default leoSettings.leo to eliminate any personal settings, 
but Leo still did not load unless pyenchant was installed.

Regards
Lewis

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Re: Working on a new spell checker

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:00:31 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> I am going to work on a new spell checker for Leo.
>

Work is going well. The first draft is working.  I'll push the code later 
today.  Again, please do backup .leo/spellpyx.txt.

It's remarkable how little spell checkers actually do.  The new code 
doesn't use nltk. Using nltk might rearrange suggestions a bit, but that's 
a nit.

The plan is to distribute the hunspell English 
dict with the next version of Leo.

Edward

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Please back up your spellpyx.txt

[Edward K. Ream]

The recommended place for them is in ~/.leo, in case you're wondering.

There is a small, but real, chance that problems with the new spell checker 
could clobber this file.  So please do back up the file before doing any 
spell checking.

Edward

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Electron documentation on best practices for security

[David Szent-Györgyi]

To my knowledge, none of us earn a living working on Leo and related 
projects, which means leveraging pre-existing code saves one the effort of 
reimplementing that. Electron may prove to be immensely useful for Leo and 
related projects such as a desktop application made from LeoVue. 

Since I have no experience writing code for node.js or for Electron, I 
looked up Electron's guide on security 
, which is worth 
consideration. 

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Re: Distribute only 64-bit executables?

[David Szent-Györgyi]

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 12:22:30 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> I am thinking of installing only 64-bit software on my Windows machine, 
> and to release only 64-bit pyinstaller builds.  Here are my thoughts:
>
> 1. Every distribution option doubles the amount of testing required for a 
> release.  In practice, not all options are tested.
>
> 2. Afaik, pyenchant is the only package requiring a 32-bit build. The tail 
> is wagging the dog.
>
> 3. True, 32-bit builds should run on 64-bit machines, so 32-bit builds 
> should be more portable.  But I have my doubts.
>
> Your comments, please.
>

This is the Windows analogue of the Debian GNU/Linux's Multiarch support 
. 

One can make 32-bit builds run on 64-bit operating systems, but that's 
extra work. 

I cope with this sort of problem all the time for work, where the issue is 
installing 32-bit apps that need to talk to hardware - the publisher of the 
Windows-level driver has extra work to do to provide interfaces for 32-bit 
code. 

Corresponding challenges for Leo start with the fact that 32-bit builds run 
on 64-bit machines, as long as the 32-bit build is aware that on a 64-bit 
machine, the C:\Program Files folder is 64-bit, and that C:\Program Files 
(x86) is 32-bit. It is also the case that 64-bit libraries either have 
32-bit duplicates that don't conflict with simultaneous use of the 64-bit 
cousins, or the 64-bit libraries must handle requests from 32-bit 
applications themselves. 

If you were to return to using a NSIS-based installer for Leo, you could 
handle the complications, but you would need to know both how Windows 
requires files placed and how it requires Registry entries places, and you 
would then need to write the NSIS-based installer to address those 
requirements. 

As I recall, you had enough headaches updating the NSIS-based installer as 
files were added and removed - and that was 32-bit Leo on 32-bit Windows 
XP, without the joys of UAC dialogs to handle permissions as forced by 
Vista and more recent versions of Windows. 

Links of interest: 

NSIS 32-bit 64-bit on Stack Overflow 


Stack Overflow: writing registry value in a 64-bit system 


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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Arjan]

The details of this thread are well above my expertise, but I read 
something that looks relevant and interesting in a HN thread 
 on PyQt:

I have been developing in HTML/Python for a while now. This works 
> wonderfully. You just need to put all your business logic in Python, use 
> PyQt to run all the platform specific code like file dialogs, printing, 
> etc. but keep the main interface with React. You do that by having a 
> webview with a service object being the bridge between Python and the JS 
> view[0]. If you are a bit careful with the amount of information going 
> through the bridge, you get very good performance (source 
> )


Apologies if this is not relevant.

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Re: NEW: CSV editor

[Terry Brown]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 07:36:05 -0800 (PST)
Arjan  wrote:

> This is great!
> 
> What would be an awesome way to use this would be if the CSV editor
> widget could be automatically activated in the edit pane for nodes
> with a table, so one can quickly switch between text and table/csv
> nodes. Maybe just for "@csv" nodes or so. Would something like that
> be possible?

Yes, but for now I've just added an `edit-pane-csv` command that opens
the CSV editor without all the drama described in the video / previous
post.

Cheers -Terry

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Terry Brown]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 03:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Joe Orr  wrote:

> Why make an electron version of Leo: 
> 1. Get the modern look and feel that people expect. The Leo editor
> maybe doesn't really need any UI improvements, but I think the
> current look of Leo gives newcomers the impression that the program
> is dated, although it isn't.

To be honest I think Leo looks dated because of the way it's styled.
It's styled to look like a Tkinter app.  With no styling it looks like
a typical desktop app.  And yes, that look is starting to look a little
dated vs. the current flatter styling of apps. like Office and web
apps., but I think the style Leo ships with looks much older than the
default Qt style.

So old in fact that a lot of newer users might not recognize it as an
older styling :-)

Cheers -Terry

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Re: NEW: CSV editor

[Arjan]

This is great!

What would be an awesome way to use this would be if the CSV editor widget 
could be automatically activated in the edit pane for nodes with a table, 
so one can quickly switch between text and table/csv nodes. Maybe just for 
"@csv" nodes or so. Would something like that be possible?

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Terry Brown]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 03:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Joe Orr  wrote:

> A web based version of Leo would be an entirely new category of app.
> I'm sure it would be cool but I'm not sure what exactly it would be.
> How does the file diff feature fit in here? Certainly you could make
> a node + web outiner that would allow creation of cloned outlines,
> collaboration on tree creation, put everything in mongo etc. This
> would be a different tool than Leo tho.

True, a javascript version of Leo would be a different beast.  My
thought is Python running Leo somewhere, and a javascript UI app.
communicating with that via AJAX or web streams or whatever.  It's
still not clear to me that electron really facilitates this - it seems
if the effort to make a new read/write browser UI is going to be made
it would be a shame to go with something that still needs to be
downloaded and installed.  I understand Vitalije's point about local
filesystem access, but don't think that's so critical, the Google
Docs. / Microsoft online apps. manage fine with that constraint.

Cheers -Terry

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[vitalije]

it seems the last message was posted ok. Perhaps it was some googlegroups 
update this morning that deleted my messages.

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[vitalije]

I don't know what is happening with google groups. This morning I wrote a 
message to this thread and when I clicked the button POST, it showed that 
my message was deleted. At first I thought that I have clicked DISCARD 
button by mistake, so I rewrote the message again and carefully pressed 
POST button, but google showed that now two my messages are deleted. I 
didn't have time to try again, so I have left it. And later I see that 
Edward is quoting part of my second message? How is it possible? What is 
going on?

Yes, we have agreed not to try to embed python in node.js. I was just 
pointing what is (IMHO) the main difference between browser and Electron. 

Vitalije

PS: in August 2017, I have made a small example electron application that 
reads Leo document, draws the outline and allows editing of body text. I 
wandered at that time how fast could be rendering of Leo tree. AFAIR the 
experiment showed great potential of using Electron as front end for Leo. 
The experiment is written in clojurescript and using om (in effect it is 
React for clojurescript). I remember posting here on the forum a video 
 demonstrating this app. It is 
about 500 lines of code. If it is of any interest I could share this 
experiment. 


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Working on a new spell checker

[Edward K. Ream]

I am going to take time out from all the great discussions to work on a new 
spell checker for Leo.

I was going to say that pyenchant is preventing a 64-bit distribution on 
Windows.  But no, there isn't going to *be *a pyinstaller version of Leo on 
Windows, for other reasons.

Still, I personally don't have a way to spell check on Windows on my 64-bit 
Anaconda install. I hope to complete work in the next day or so.

Edward

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Wishing we were cubicle mates ;-)

[Edward K. Ream]

There are times when I wish all of us Leo devs occupied nearby cubicles. 
This is one of those times, when we are discussing new directions for Leo.  
Not because we could have (ugh) meetings, but because we could just chat in 
person.

There was scientific research, reported, iirc, in Nature or Science, that 
showed that physical proximity was surprisingly important in collaborative 
strength.  I think we are doing pretty well with (mostly) only online 
proximity, but still...

Edward

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Re: Saving to a file that is open somewhere else

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 3:41 AM, Israel Hands  wrote:

> Sorry to be opaque - it's a question and maybe a feature request.
>

​Please create an enhancement requests here
. It's the only way it
will stay on the radar.

Edward

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Joe Orr  wrote:

> Just a few quick notes, will add more later.
>
> For those working on the electron approach, did you see this:
> https://www.fyears.org/2017/02/electron-as-gui-of-python-apps-updated.html
>

​There is a link to this in the first (summary) comment of Leo issue #684
. It has influenced my
thinking considerably.

Many thanks for your other comments.  They are helpful.

Edward

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Use this forum when you want more people to see your posts

[Edward K. Ream]

Recently I said that all kinds of issues are welcome on Leo's issue tracker 
.  That's will always be 
so.

However, more people likely follow this forum than the issue tracker, so if 
you want the most people to read your comments or question, this is the 
place.

Edward

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 2:35 AM, vitalije  wrote:

Using Electron allows reading and writing local files much easier then from
> browser. Accessing local file system can be done through python back-end,
> but it would add a lot of complicated inter-process communication (which
> need to be tested, debugged,...) instead of directly reading and writing to
> local file system.
>

​I'm confused.  I thought we agreed that we don't want to try embedding
python in node.js?

Isn't some form of ipc required so we can run Leo's core in a separate
process?​


The other advantage of using Electron is that programmer doesn't need to
> check browser version and to deal with lot of browser compatibility issues.
>
> The disadvantage of using Electron is download size it brings in (~ 50M),
> but I believe it would be a small price to pay for the benefits and
> flexibility it provides.
>

​Thanks for these comments.  ​


​Edward

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:42 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> https://discuss.atom.io/t/how-to-run-electron-desktop-app-
> in-web-browser-without-downloading/30495
>
> only serves to deepen my suspicions that Electron is solving the wrong
> problems.
>
> Maybe I'll try and make a proof of concept for the python server + some
> other js stack just so we're sure we're all on the same page.
>

​Excellent.  This is the time for quick prototypes and demos.

The electron "hello world" app and your csv video are informative in ways
that words, words, words are not.

Edward

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[vitalije]

Using Electron allows reading and writing local files much easier then from 
browser. Accessing local file system can be done through python back-end, 
but it would add a lot of complicated inter-process communication (which 
need to be tested, debugged,...) instead of directly reading and writing to 
local file system.

The other advantage of using Electron is that programmer doesn't need to 
check browser version and to deal with lot of browser compatibility issues.

The disadvantage of using Electron is download size it brings in (~ 50M), 
but I believe it would be a small price to pay for the benefits and 
flexibility it provides.

Vitalije
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 4:42:40 AM UTC+1, Terry Brown wrote:
>
>
> https://discuss.atom.io/t/how-to-run-electron-desktop-app-in-web-browser-without-downloading/30495
>  
>
> only serves to deepen my suspicions that Electron is solving the wrong 
> problems. 
>
> Maybe I'll try and make a proof of concept for the python server + some 
> other js stack just so we're sure we're all on the same page. 
>
> Cheers -Terry 
>

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Re: Electron, not for web apps.?

[vitalije]

What Electron hast to offer more than a Chrome browser is ability to write 
and read local files without user intervention. To save file from browser, 
user must click download link and then choose where to save file or set 
preference to download all files in the same folder, and after downloading 
manually move file to its final location. It is not big deal to do it once 
per session, but imagine saving Leo outline which contains ten or more 
files. Using Electron would allow user to save files and also to open local 
files.

You could say that the same functionality can be achieved with python 
back-end, but sometimes it can be very useful to just read and write local 
files directly from Web page. It certainly would be much easier to 
implement than full client-server version for this basic functionality of 
reading and writing local files.

The other advantage of using Electron is that programmer can rely on its 
Web API rather then to check which browser version user have installed and 
whether it is compatible or not.

The disadvantage is of course size of download (~ 50M).

Vitalije

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 4:42:40 AM UTC+1, Terry Brown wrote:

>
> https://discuss.atom.io/t/how-to-run-electron-desktop-app-in-web-browser-without-downloading/30495
>  
>
> only serves to deepen my suspicions that Electron is solving the wrong 
> problems. 
>
> Maybe I'll try and make a proof of concept for the python server + some 
> other js stack just so we're sure we're all on the same page. 
>
> Cheers -Terry 
>

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Matt, how do I review your docs?

[Edward K. Ream]

What is the status of your install-docs branches?

Am I correct in assuming that the only changed docs are in this tree:

  LeoDocs.leo#Leo's Documentation-->Installing & running Leo-->@rst 
html/installing.html

I can see, via diffs on the branch pages, that checking out your branches 
probably shows me the new words, but it's extremely hard to see what the 
actual changes are/were in Leo.

Do you have any summary of the changes, or suggestions about how I can 
review your work?

Edward

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Re: NEW: CSV editor

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 3:10 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

I've written a CSV table editor, implemented as part of the Leo Edit
> Pane system.
>

​Many thanks for this, Terry.  The demo explains much better than words

Would you be willing to adapt these ideas for #433: Complete the tables.py
plugin ?
​
If not, I'll use your code as a model.

​
Edward

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Re: ENB: Making LeoVue a desktop app

[Joe Orr]

Just a few quick notes, will add more later.

For those working on the electron approach, did you see this:
https://www.fyears.org/2017/02/electron-as-gui-of-python-apps-updated.html

I'm swamped with a new project so I won't be able to work on this for a 
bit. But I am planning on adding form.io support to Leo Vue soon, will post 
on that later.

About Leo Vue, it is not Leo and it is not a desktop app. It is only a 
viewer of Leo files, it allows you to make a web app using Leo as an 
editor. It has plenty of features that wouldn't make sense in an editor, 
like subtrees as nodes, summary nodes etc. Not sure if any benefit to 
making it a desktop app.

Why make an electron version of Leo: 
1. Get the modern look and feel that people expect. The Leo editor maybe 
doesn't really need any UI improvements, but I think the current look of 
Leo gives newcomers the impression that the program is dated, although it 
isn't.
2. Widgets like the ACE editor, or for that matter, the entire Atom editor. 
Atomic Leo could be a fork of Atom.

A web based version of Leo would be an entirely new category of app. I'm 
sure it would be cool but I'm not sure what exactly it would be. How does 
the file diff feature fit in here? Certainly you could make a node + web 
outiner that would allow creation of cloned outlines, collaboration on tree 
creation, put everything in mongo etc. This would be a different tool than 
Leo tho.

Joe

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 4:47:44 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> Some ideas in reply to Terry's recent question about whether node.js will 
> be a dependency of the Leo Vue desktop app.
>
> My initial reply was that it is way too early to say. Here are some 
> further thoughts:
>
> 1. electron , the lib on 
> which the atom desktop editor is built, "[combines] 
> Chromium  and Node.js  
> into a single runtime...Apps can be packaged for Mac, Windows, and Linux. 
> Atom has a great look, but a much different look than Leo Vue.
>
> Alas, atom is a pure *javascript* app.
>
> 2. In this reply 
> , in 
> the Leo Vue thread 
> , Joe Orr 
> said: "About Electron, that is basically just node + browser in a package. 
> I think should be doable to wrap Leo python code in node and have the 
> browser interface, maybe using something like this: 
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-python;. 
> 
>  
> The source for this project is here 
> .
>
> Hmm. node-python is dormant (4-years old) and marked as hyper-beta.  
> Worse, the to-do list makes it appear as if there is language translation 
> going on.  I have a bad feeling about this...
>
> Anyway, node-python is a fork of another node-python 
> , which says it "actually 
> embeds a python process inside of Node".  The file binding.cc 
>  is 
> C code which (if I am not mistaken) implements the Python API 
>  using the V8 interface 
>  of node.js. 
>
> *Summary*
>
> Implementing the Python API in V8 is *much* easier that trans-compiling 
> Python into JavaScript. It might actually work ;-) Still, I am not 
> convinced either node-binding project would form a solid basis for a major 
> project.
>
> An alternative might be to use interprocess communication between python 
> and electron.  This might be a client server architecture, or something 
> else.  This is a completely open question, imo.
>
> Your comments please, Amigos.
>
> Edward
>

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Re: NEW: CSV editor

[Matt Wilkie]

> I've written a CSV table editor, implemented as part of the Leo Edit 
> Pane system.  To access it, enter the Alt-X command 
>

ooh yes please! Thanks Terry

(watches video)

That's awesome! I can *so *use that. It was also nice to see a different 
layout in action. I haven't played much with the panel settings.

matt

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