Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.4 refactorings and BHS (was: minutes of ESC call ...)
Hi Bjoern, all On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 04:13:33PM +, Michael Meeks wrote: * QA (Robinson) There is a Bug Hunting Session for 4.4 coming up next week. If you did any bigger refactoring or other work that primarily can be assumed to affect a specific area of usecases, please add this to: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugHunting_Session_4.4.0.0#What_to_test Maybe it would be easier if I add the test cases to MozTrap? there could be also a follow-up through the beta/rc/final. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.4 refactorings and BHS (was: minutes of ESC call ...)
Hi Bjoern, On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 03:42:16PM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: Maybe it would be easier if I add the test cases to MozTrap? there could be also a follow-up through the beta/rc/final. Thank you, that would be great! I was suggesting to just edit the wiki as telling hackers to enter stuff in MozTrap likely earns us just a few groans mumbling yet another login/account. yes, no problem, I write the tests and upload them. Speaking of that: If people come forward during the ESC call with stuff done for 4.4 we should just put that in the minutes -- we can copy it over to the Wiki/MozTrap later. Just let the stuff in the minutes, I read them anyway and will ping the developer when I don't understand. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Major Release Checklist
GSM Le 21 déc. 2013 22:09, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl a écrit : Joel Madero wrote (21-12-13 02:12) And of course what I meant was minor release :-/ I always get those confused but now I know, major.minor.micro That being said - for major (which only happens what...once every 2 years? I guess we can move bug hunting session as late as RC3, for minor releases, I suppose RC1 will have to do and locales will just be out of luck (which is unfortunate). That being said - maybe we can have a locale bug hunting session immediately upon release that lasts 7 days, any bugs found can be fixed in the first micro release. Thoughts? There is no or little difference between what we call major and minor. So I suggest to treat them the same. Then as for when to have a bug hunt session, I think the goal is to get _many_ people test early. Therefore I would suggest to do it _early_ with beta1 or beta2. The l10n teams can ask people in their community to test the RC1 or RC2 RC1 doesn't contain all the translations as string freeze is due at this time. The only version we get to check our work is RC2. on l10n issues, so that those can be fixed in RC3. Hum, RC3 is final so it's considering that we don't need to test l10n versions. As you said bug hunting is to attract more people and I would like to give this chance to NL projects too. But I understand that testing versions before might be more important Cheers Sophie GSM ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The Wiki-page ReleaseNotes_4.2 requires replacement one image
Thanks for your feedback. There are several pictures/features that need update. I was waiting for the RC to take care of the page. Kind regards Sophie GSM GSM Le 17 déc. 2013 19:38, ape os...@yandex.ru a écrit : Hi, all! Look at the wikiPage https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2 -- GUI - ... - Implementing an about:config functionality in Options tab (Efe Gürkan YALAMAN): -- It seems to me, the image (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Expert_Config.png) needs to be replaced, because now the option is located on the tab Advanced - button Expert Config Page. ape -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-Wiki-page-ReleaseNotes-4-2-requires-replacement-one-image-tp4088569.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Base Show stopper in LibreOffice 4.2 Beta2
Coul you upload your database somewhere? Thanks in advance. Sophie GSM Le 13 déc. 2013 23:16, Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com a écrit : I just filed a bug, but I was not given a number for it. I have a database three tables that are related. Table A has a foreign key linked to the primary key of Table B. Table B has a foreign key linked to the primary key of Table C. I created a form containing these three tables and added data to it. Normally, when you change the visible record of Table B, the visible records for Table A should also change. They do when using 4.1.4.1, but for 4.2 Beta2, they don't. --Dan ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Reported issues show the tendency to be more user questions ? BSA related ?
Hi Cor, On 01/07/2013 20:01, Robert Großkopf wrote: Hi Cor, Is the process from our French friends - where reports from BSA go trough an email process before being added to BugZilla (that's what I understood from it anyway) - a way to prevent that? Better we get all the reports we need than not so much reports and a more buggy LO. I could only write about the Base-bugs. User-questions in this part of LO could be answered in a short time (about 2 or 3 days), because there are only 240 bugs open and we have a look at the bug-list nearly every day if there is reported something new. As this is still an experimentation, we can't deduct anything right now, it's a to fresh process. But thanks for pointing it any way, this is what the experimentation is done for :) Lets take some more time to see if it's a real help on the BZ side and the community side. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Short news about BSA_fr
Hi all, Short news from the BSA in French. So it's up and running since last week. Today, I've documented our process on the wiki for our team [1]. I propose that we let a period of tests/improvements for about 2 months before I document the process in English. [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BSA_NLPProcess/fr Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Component - BSA needs updated
Hi all, On 21/06/2013 23:12, Joel Madero wrote: On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Rob Snelders libreoff...@ertai.nl wrote: Hi Joel, Joel Madero schreef op 21-06-2013 21:09: Hi to both of you. I've added a requested component to FDO (UX-Advice) for bugs that need UX input. From what Robinson said we just need to update a single txt file in BSA to get it working properly. Can you (Rob) add this? Robinson already fixed the BSA-part. But the wiki needs to be filled in. I added the wiki pages on the EN side, so 'make extract-en' works now. I think we need to make wiki changes from the FR side, but we should be able to update the EN BSA right now... Okay will do the update and make sure it works. Maybe we need to poke Sophie JBF about the French BSA - maybe best for me first to get EN one complete so they know what to put on the French one. Both Jean-Baptiste and me are reading the list, so just ping us here when you're ready and we will react :) By the way, the FR BSA is up and running, I made some tests with students during a training session this week. Now I need to document it on the FR side with the workflow we are setting which is still a work in progress with the team. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Component - BSA needs updated
On 22/06/2013 20:28, Joel Madero wrote: On 06/22/2013 04:50 AM, libreoffice-qa-requ...@lists.freedesktop.org wrote: Both Jean-Baptiste and me are reading the list, so just ping us here when you're ready and we will react:) By the way, the FR BSA is up and running, I made some tests with students during a training session this week. Now I need to document it on the FR side with the workflow we are setting which is still a work in progress with the team. Kind regards Sophie :-D Sounds good. I haven't gotten to the wiki yet but will try to have it done by end of weekend. Oh, take your time, I'm still lost in translation ;) Cheers Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Rob, I've added Jean-Baptiste in cc because I won't have the time to take care of the BSA this week. Jean-Baptiste will you be able to deal with it? On 09/06/2013 11:00, Rob Snelders wrote: Hi Sophie, Can you look for any weird texts in the French BSA? Can you also add q...@fr.libreoffice.org to the fr-qa-list so it is allowed to send email to that list. I think I don't understand what you mean here, should we subscribe the list to itself? I think then we can take it in production. Thanks a lot for your work! Kind regards Sophie - -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRtYxuAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNBA0H/3x5NlrIYnV/zDzweXzB1CxZ 7XlyCdlFg9T7T1w9FJJjDkaBZgre9IfsFyrFy+Mfrxu9r+RnUjUZdV1p/LXiITE1 Zg1hvLMYZ083xx4TqXxyej2o9+7het6of5bZs15fle89aYx65Hyjn98y4VNqnfOd ukNMAxw577a3GePddOYoojRfGzEj+da0RP9RcTdl/4ONH5r+IA/pmxjl17x94nN+ 1aLDE01RUXUEFoCqJ4S3etxKVQs9CBgAajo9C8EscEXZIAyv59cXDhOzorxREMjV y809mKWnkY9EqweMyMKPvH8dn/quegxtECUYplHny/hIjfwMLWJ1BEEK/TVKQrc= =EMPu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Server Install GUI release 4.1
Hi Florian, On 09/06/2013 14:25, Florian Reisinger wrote: Hi, Today I released a new version of ServerInstall GUI :) Infos / Download here: http://flosmind.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/server-installation-gui-4-1/ Is it ok if I document it in French and give this link on the wiki page I'll write? Thanks a lot for you work on this, the feedback on the FR list is very positive :) Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.1.0beta2: no possibility to save a modified doc
On 07/06/2013 15:24, Pedro wrote: Hi Sophie sophi wrote The bug he met: If you enable Tools Options Load/Save General Always create a backup copy, it's impossible to save a modified document. Can one of you confirm this? Yes, bug confirmed with Beta2 under Win XP x86. Thanks in the meantime, he has created the bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65501 The interesting bit is that option did nothing in 4.0.3.3, i.e. if you enabled Always create a backup copy it would save the document with changes but would not create ANY backup copy :) there is a trick with this that I never remember, so may be check in the FAQ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/General/140 Just tested briefly with 3.6.5.2 Portable and it did the same as Beta2 (i.e. Failed with Could not create backup copy) Before anyone asks, Yes, I have write permissions on the target folder. Thanks a lot for you tests :) Cheers Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
Bonsoir, J'imagine que c'est un test de post depuis le BSA-FR donc n'en tenez pas compte :) I imagine that it's a test, so don't take it into account. Cheers Sophie On 06/06/2013 22:43, q...@fr.libreoffice.org wrote: Bonjour, Il y a une nouvelle soumission de bug déposée en français. L'un d'entre vous peut-il le confirmer ou le traduire pour nous. Composant: Classeur Version: 4.1.0.0.beta1 Keywords: Sujet: CONFIGURATION: teset Description longue: Description du problème : Étapes pour reproduire : 1. …test 2. … 3. … Comportement actuel : Comportement attendu : Système d'exploitation: Windows XP Version: 4.1.0.0.beta1 Merci de nous aider, BSA ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] French BSA
Hi all, A point on the FR BSA following the minutes, the only piece not working currently is the sending of mails from BSA to the qa@fr mailing list. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-projects] [ANN] LibreOffice 4.1.0 Beta1 available
Hi, On 26/05/2013 11:08, khagaroth wrote: Is anyone else getting a crash (no error message) when selecting Format - Character..., Format - Paragraph... etc. etc.? (Win7 x64) I didn't test it by myself, but it just has been reported on the QA FR list, with Format Page. Kind regards Sophie On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Dear Community, The Document Foundation is pleased to announce the first Beta release of our new LibreOffice 4.1. The upcoming 4.1 will be our sixth major release in two and a half years, and comes with a nice set of new features. Please be aware that LibreOffice 4.1 Beta1 is not ready yet for production use, you should continue to use LibreOffice 4.0.3 for that. For further milestones towards 4.1, please refer to our release plan timings here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.1#4.1.0_release The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA builds download page at http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/ Should you find bugs, please report them to the FreeDesktop Bugzilla: https://bugs.freedesktop.org A good way to assess the release candidate quality is to run some specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can e.g. contribute code: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/developers/ translate LibreOffice to your language: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide or help with funding our operations: http://donate.libreoffice.org/ A list of known issues and fixed bugs with 4.1.0 Beta1 is available from our wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.1.0/Beta1 Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have been possible without your help. Yours, The Document Foundation Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: projects+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/projects/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Test the Photo Album Creator
Hi Samuel, On 16/05/2013 08:52, Samuel Mehrbrodt wrote: Am 13.05.2013 20:29, schrieb Andras Timar: I don't recall that Documentation folks have ever contributed anything to help, but I may be wrong. AFAIK they work on User Guides. Maybe we should just ask them whether they can do it. Shouldn't be too hard, if you wan write a little bit. I think that the Photo Album feature is pretty much self-explaining. A trivial UI reference help, such as Press the Create button to create the Photo Album or You can choose one from the three pre-defined layouts, 1 image per slide, 2 images per slide or 4 images per slide is not very useful. What help text did you think of? I can easily add a help page, if I'm provided with the text. Best regards, Andras Sure, it is self-explaining. But I still think a Help page would be helpful, at least it would help people who google for that feature to find it. Microsoft has a similiar page: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint-help/create-and-share-a-photo-album-HA010338260.aspx Even if it's self explaining, please, write a little content for the help files. Our users are not as experienced as we are with computers, so even if it seems to be repeating, it's necessary. Thanks Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Cleaning up QA Nabble and Archive folders from Spam?
Hi Pedro, I've added Florian in CC to get his opinion too. On 11/05/2013 18:30, Pedro wrote: Hi Drew drewjensen wrote Ok - deleted what was indeed a bunch of spam at the nabble archive - added a few emails addy's to the kill list.. looks like only one email made it to the main archive. I'm not getting any SPAM because I subscribe in no-mail mode. However the Nabble page looks a mess http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/QA-f3613148.html Can you please clean it up? Drew is currently not available and I'm taking care of Nabble. I think the spam you see here is the one getting on the list. I can remove all the spam mails on Nabble, but they'll still be on the archive, see: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2013-May/004436.html So I'm not sure what to do in that case? Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Cleaning up QA Nabble and Archive folders from Spam?
Hi Pedro, On 11/05/2013 19:24, Pedro wrote: Hi Sophie sophi wrote Drew is currently not available and I'm taking care of Nabble. I think the spam you see here is the one getting on the list. I can remove all the spam mails on Nabble, but they'll still be on the archive, see: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2013-May/004436.html So I'm not sure what to do in that case? Thank you for your quick answer. Please do clean up the Nabble page. If I remember correctly from previous emails from Drew there is nothing you (or anybody) can do about the archive. What is stored can't be touched (it prevents tampering with what people said they said ;) ) But you could improve on the Spam filters so that this type of messages doesn't get to the mailing list at all The QA list is out of our domain, it's on freedsktop.org, so I doubt we can do anything here, the messages are not posted from Nabble. Even to moderate these mails on the queue so they don't appear at all. Florian Effenberger is the right person to help you on this one Not sure he can do anything at freedesktop. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Role of the QA calls
Hi Rainer, I'm so sad to read that, you're a key person for QA and that's a so long time I read and learn from your advices that I can't imagine you leaving. Please, may I ask you to reconsider your decision, we really want you in the project, not only in QA but as member of our project. I'm sure the organization can be discussed and modified, sometimes decisions are taken without knowing all the outcomes and consequences, but we are able to communicate about that (and there is a point here about the lack of communication in our LibreOffice project) may be because we are too short in resources in some areas so we go straight where we should take more time to discuss. Kind regards Sophie On 25/04/2013 19:40, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Hi, in discussions I sometimes read statements like „...formal vote next call”. I think here some clarification is required. The QA call has no command of the QA community. The calls and their participants are not a formal entity of TDF. The only legitimation of the results of these calls can be that decisions are wise, well and comprehensible founded, what would be an appropriate base that community might follow. Only a logic decision, promising success and plausible for the other members of the community grant acceptance. The sight of an accidental majority of accidental present laymen is irrelevant. TDF is a meritocratic institution, not a democratic one, and that's the same with the QA community. So, of course, the calls may coordinate the work of the participants as they want. And some of the results are really great, for example the rework and additionally new creation of the QA Wiki and web pages. But if the talk is about things affecting other people's work or even do something what might be called decisions, the results should be presented to the community in clear, brief, transparent way like: „Our conclusion was that we should do abc because of def, we also thought about ghi and jkl, but we dismissed those alternative because of mno and pqr. If we don't hear concerns, xyz will proceed”. So please think about the presentation of the results of the calls. To be honest - my regard concerning the QA calls is not good. All the decisions are reasoned with we agreed. That's not sufficient, the call has to reason why the rest of the community should accept and follow those ideas. Currently for many issues (not only related to QA calls) I only see actionism what often shows a lack of understanding of the complex matters. Because I do not want to compromise someone here in the project I choose an example from somewhere else, advice I got the last weeks often was very similar to this joke: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=122133#c3. The working sphere in the LibO project caused considerable discomfort for me, and because I doubt that this incompatibility can be solved, I decided to leave the LibO project. In future I will contribute to Open Source PLC Programming Libraries. Bye Rainer ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [LibreOffice-QA] Conference Call 2013-04-19 - Agenda Minutes
Hi all, On 21/04/2013 00:40, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi, On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 11:29:59AM +0200, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Currently I see a tendency that the QA calls generate decisions and want to change proceedings without knowing enough concerning existing proceedings You are kindly invited to join the call to improve the situation. AFAIK we even changed the timeslot of the call already multiple times trying to accomodate more participants. The advisable way would be to ask the French QA team via mailing list to leave some notes in the Wiki how they proceed (or how they plan to proceed). If then someone has ideas for improvements he can start a discussion with the team within the team (as a newbee there). And only with very good urgent reasons (coordinations needs between such sub-communities or whatever) a discussion may be started on international level. This project was started out of the needs of the NL project -- in that case it has to ensure in some way to stay reasonably responsive. Note also that a mailing list is precisely _NOT_ what is needed here, as then there is nobody feeling responsible for it. This FR QA list is not a discuss list but a working list and each member invested on QA feels responsible of the work done here. Again, some teams may work in different ways. I would be happy with either Sophie or Charles naming one or two people as the contact persons to the NL community in this case if they are overloaded themselves (which they are), but not with a mailing list -- esp. not one of a community that Sophie describes as NL projects are always shy about what they are doing. You didn't read what I was talking about (culture and communication), I was not talking about responsiveness and responsibility. I don't think that overwhelming another member is the good way to go. But as Jean-Baptiste volunteered, the problem is solved. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [LibreOffice-QA] Conference Call 2013-04-19 - Agenda Minutes
Hi Rainer, all, On 20/04/2013 11:29, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Sophie Gautier schrieb: please consider that we (FR group) are acting as a community and not as individuals, Concerning this process https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BSA/Localization it seems a bit bureaucratic to me. Hi Sophie, I agree. Currently I see a tendency that the QA calls generate decisions and want to change proceedings without knowing enough concerning existing proceedings. The advisable way would be to ask the French QA team via mailing list to leave some notes in the Wiki how they proceed (or how they plan to proceed). If then someone has ideas for improvements he can start a discussion with the team within the team (as a newbee there). And only with very good urgent reasons (coordinations needs between such sub-communities or whatever) a discussion may be started on international level. What's more or less the same what Sophie said more friendly. On one hand I understand that the QA team would like more communication between subgroups and their team, but the same happens for marketing or communication. So it's not dedicated to QA, NL projects are always shy about what they are doing. On the other hand each NL project has his on way to build his community, sometimes only online, sometimes more during live meetings, and this is one thing that should be taken into account when setting general processes. BTW, @Sophie: Is the BSA-Fr already working or at least is there some concrete goal when it should work [2]? It's not working yet, I think that the e-mail issue is still not solved and I didn't get news from Rob about it. If the problems still will need some time for a solution, and also may be for bug reports in French language what will find their way into Bugzilla also in future, I can offer a Bugzilla solution. The qa@fr mailing list will get exactly 1 mail if the list will be added as QA-contact or similar. If the 10 key bug wranglers [1] know how to proceed that should work nearby 100% perfect. Precondition is that the list has a Bugzilla account, the rest are some smart e-mail settings for the account. I prefer such a solution to the current proceeding to add French language users to CC. yes, that's a good solution. If you are interested please simply discuss on the fr-qa list and send a ping to me if I can help. We have already discussed this on the fr-qa list, so members are aware that: - we may receive mails in English asking to translate the bug (currently the bug is translated and should be also checked) - we should soon receive mail from BSA that will report issues in French and will need to be checked, searched for duplicates, and reported in Bugzilla if needed. As I said I'll document the BSA process in our team when it will work in French for our members and in English for the other groups who would like to join. BTW, I think that almost all the QA pages are translated into French now. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [LibreOffice-QA] Conference Call 2013-04-19 - Agenda Minutes
Hi all, On 19/04/2013 18:37, Joel Madero wrote: Thanks to Robinson we have a great new system for our agenda and minutes, minutes from today's meeting can be found here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/April_19 Concerning this item https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/April_19#PENDING_ITEM:_Documentation_for_Localized_French_BSA please consider that we (FR group) are acting as a community and not as individuals, so instead of adding Charles (who is already overwhelmed with his TDF activities and not interested in FR QA) add the FR QA list as a primary contact. You can write in English there and anybody in the team will react with the emergency your team needs. Concerning this process https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BSA/Localization it seems a bit bureaucratic to me. Our team is dealing with bugs reported from our users list, forums or even directly by organization like MIMO for years now. We won't report each submissions as soon as it's reported via BSA if we consider it's not a bug or if it's a duplicate or if we don't have enough information. May be before writing such a page we should wait to have the process in place already for one team, then see what are the usage/culture of the new team coming to participate and write a general policy from there. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] French bug in Bugzilla
Hi Florian, On 29/03/2013 10:16, Florian Reisinger wrote: Hi, IZBot (IRC channel LibreOffice-QA) had some interesting news: VIEWING: problème dans la représentation de l'axe des X dans un diagramme du classeur: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62895 My question is, how to deal with such bugs, as they are only comprehensible for French QA members..? Would it be possible to set up a query, which searches after French words in Bugzilla? [Okay, this is a little bit rhetorical. It should be possible. But will it be checked??] Just send the bug id to the qa@fr list any time you find one and we will deal with it. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Page for BSA process in other languages
Hi all, I'll start to document the BSA process for NLP who would like to join later, where would you like me to put this page on the wiki ? Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Explanations on the NL BSA purpose
Hi all, Checking for the minutes of your meeting I've seen that you miss specs on the NL BSA. I'm sorry for that, I thought that has already been discussed through your team. So I'll try first to explain my idea clearly on the workflow we have thought about: - a user fills information on the BSA in French - no issue is created - the content of the submission is sent to the QA FR list -- at this stage only the FR team is concerned - the QA FR team checks for the content and tests it - if this is a bug the FR QA team will check on Bugzilla if the bug already exists and if yes will comment it, else will create the bug -- here the normal process of dealing with Bugzilla applies. The aim of this process is to help your team to deal with the unconfirmed bugs and help the users report bugs by filling them in their native language. The FR project has an active QA Team, able to test and specify bugs but not all of them are able to report in English. The actual test will help us to narrow the needs for both teams and if it's proven to work, let other well formed NL QA teams participate. In *no way* a bug should be open in French or encouraged to be open in French on Bugzilla. It's absolutely not the purpose of the process, almost on the contrary it should prevent to have bugs in French reported to Bugzilla. I've added a note about the language of Bugzilla on the Triage for beginners page which is linked on the last BSA page. I hope that this explanations will clear the process for you. Again, I'm sorry that was not done before Rob began to work on the BSA translation. I would like that we test this process, narrow it and add what will be missing (like the stats you make on BSA reports), and then see if it's a real help for you. If you have any questions, or if you disagree with this process don't hesitate to tell me. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Explanations on the NL BSA purpose
Hi Rainer, On 18/03/2013 11:37, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Sophie Gautier schrieb: Hi all, So I'll try first to explain my idea clearly on the workflow we have thought about: Hi Sophie, thanks a lot, I see that all my concerns were unnecessary, I simply did not have information how that should work. Again, sorry, my mistake, I thought it had been discussed here. Is there already a plan how BSA-FR will be reached? Beneath a link on the localized Website I think the most easy way would be via Menu 'Aide - Envoyer un retour ...' (Help - Feedback) Yes and the long discussed and prepared, but still not existant (localized) Feedback page, where the user should have a choice I want to report a Bug ( ) Directly using English Language Assistant ( ) French Language Report to French Quality Assurance. I'm not sure how we can achieve that, but that's a good idea. @Sophie: I think you should write down some essentials to the wiki, what can be reached by a Link from BSA-FR (How does this work? in French) and tells the workflow to the user. I think no more discussion will be required here, and complements (if necessary) can be added directly to the Wiki. I'll do it, but I wanted first to see how it works and I'd like to comment also the workflow we are putting in place through the FR QA team to help others. @Rob: I think that many other Languages will be interested in something like that (Definitively: German Community). So some hints in the Wiki what input you need for creation of other localizations so that you can do that with minimum work would be appreciated. Best regards Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-website] Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Rob, This is just to let you know that your message sent through PHP works well and is on the list (I unmoderated it) if you'd like to check thanks for your tests and your patience with this :) Kind regards Sophie On 16/03/2013 18:40, Rob Snelders wrote: Hi Florian/Sophie, I don't see any emails in the QA list from the BSA however. What I send this morning was via the commandline. Now I need to send it via PHP. I did try again to post a bug-report in the French BSA. Did you receive it? Op 16-03-13 08:36, Sophie Gautier schreef: Hi Rob, all, On 16/03/2013 08:21, Rob Snelders wrote: Op 16-03-13 00:17, Florian Effenberger schreef: Hm, it arrived this time. Can you try again for the fr list? Rob Snelders wrote on 2013-03-15 23:25: Ok. Send it again. I have send a mail to the fr-list at Sat Mar 16 07:20:07 UTC 2013 I got it in moderation, so it seems it works :) Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ - -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRR3RgAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNhVsH/AwbLm+bu7Zpk/Hjp3iyftO4 JmhguvFdXyccbnSENRmtPLVd/1LehZI+eFMDR2Tu8gMcUFi/M4K4i3PVbPoQb8Pt nf2198jUJ78ea5hsKXMN0wApNncZrM3uWXTsNNRDpUb2gDybJIJGCkKcbW+UTqf8 HtW+xsHC+/3rplp+j47VwZ2fALbMhtpbrcNrUOMfcGlPPbHNtp4VcEgjOppWYnaq oInz1GwJ0IBEEB1R5NHdyEAB1QVFw7Y2P8gfyvGLyBDOdbmVdEJKYCPhge8naa2Y +zq5vsKSnyZPyogf1oUxkMmny9P3rIHPUccjjHdFGli1fubjwXDf7t7Ed8slnW8= =Nfez -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-website] Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Rob, all, On 16/03/2013 08:21, Rob Snelders wrote: Op 16-03-13 00:17, Florian Effenberger schreef: Hm, it arrived this time. Can you try again for the fr list? Rob Snelders wrote on 2013-03-15 23:25: Ok. Send it again. I have send a mail to the fr-list at Sat Mar 16 07:20:07 UTC 2013 I got it in moderation, so it seems it works :) Kind regards Sophie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRRCDgAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNnBAIAJf4LeqIXEnsaPXJrKaB77Qk jzLXzEwupU8pal7ZuLV7jn9UZgeFTbrOBS/WVa8GMF9+ZDwuVtWqWeyknA0nHvoy 7ncSWtRcEN+3KkSdoc3K2MktyR56CsfY0tBSnOaCL4bL51e0lOJX3JB+hqWJouQw 8PQj3P27hIsc6xX3f/OhT+t3ejLEvCRYeRsIXRwXKRtCVjO+OgU121f2WzL8WG8v pPHu5YlKNePAol6MOyPDCkhSIx9gtuVKM/9BvxLQYii60SEBoper9+uMTIyOTOE9 TS1Pj4+KKPjtwQecLy3anKm3KtfU85R2nTzt5f44XboVmZmLy0RnT7Vo9W3WKm4= =dW+M -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Fwd: Fwd: Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
Hi Rainer, Rob, On 15/03/2013 07:42, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Rob Snelders schrieb: Hi Rob, great step, thank you very much Wrong link [2]? I only find https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugTriage_InProgress/fr Is that already working? No, but very soon now :) I tried to submit some Bugs with French BSA UI * Missing Icon for Android Impress remote * Login not remembered for next bug * Missing hint concerning mandatory English Language for the bug report No, the language of the bug report will be French * Read More link in Writer Help leads to English extended help (but that's a really very small problem) Just translated it see here https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugzAssHlp_Writer_long/fr I'll go on with the other composant tonight. I've also translated the QA FAQ I got message Le rapport de bug a été soumis avec succès. Pour toute question veuillez répondre au mail reçu, but the Bugzilla Bug Link is imssing, and it seems there are no new bug reports? The BSA content is sent to the QA FR list where the FR QA team will check for the description, the issue reported and will open the bug if necessary. Rob, you can activate the link to the qa list if you want, we can make some more test and have the feedback from the FR team as well. Thanks again Kind regards Sophie Best regards Rainer -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-website] Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 15/03/2013 22:54, Rob Snelders wrote: Hi Florian, I send the email from the kermit-server at The Document Foundation, so I don't think my ISP has anything to do with it. For the record: I am sending with a php-script from the kermit-server to q...@fr.libreoffice.org with a cc to myself. The email arrives at my address but doesn't arrive at the qa-list of France. I also send emails to the Dutch discuss-list and myself and they do arrive (Cor got them as moderator of that list). So I don't know what went wrong. I've done the same and as Rob I received the mail at my own adress but not the qa/fr list although I'm subscribed to the list. No error message, no mail in moderation and nothing on the list. Kind regards Sophie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRQ5pVAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNqUgIANRE9S1oV1omTAASNewU5Vc3 7oRGtrQE7dizPRsLwBYItnEnNIiA57PoaeGx1k54CtIICG7gIEFvHc1L/h6Yoy0E PQRb+JetCXDha+izFHtKRRZeHnXO5vhLXsod+FJQxcB6926NwbaKSWIqFCXXJor6 zNn7q31wgcHkFPO11fGiBHeSOjx61MBPKFkibwMT1HeixQPO1NFOtCq1X8mdigUt rdrJx1WBaA7O+9ll382MPNYtuTIga7/mBbg+Wpqk1F3gFyBqIQhf/Do5BLzSyUcz 0tpblPMkQ9/Mb2RT9TuTpqQEAn4t7sgMUzCy/hncNFPHfMIOJqF8ROkPF/8mbBw= =IZlK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Fwd: Fwd: Bug sur Nouveau dans le BSA français!
Hi Rainer, On 13/03/2013 16:26, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: sophie schrieb: So, I've translated the file attached and the wiki page you indicated. Hi Sophi, great work! I did some smaller tests and all functions work perfect. Great thanks! May I suggest to use a more specific visible heading as I added for the English version (Details for Bug Reports)? This is additional a question for Rob: The French Page is on a more early technical state of the art than the English one. On the English Wiki page you see several Read More links, for example for Documentation. The idea was that on the BugReport Details page only the basic information should be contained what also will be visible in the small BSA Help. So the interested user will not be overwhelmed with information. An who needs more detailed info clicks the read more in the BSA or in the Wiki to get additional detailed informaton. So for Documentation (only for example) you find additional detailed info how to report bugs in the Wiki Help on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugzAssHlp_Documentation_long. And I believe there is much more knowledge what should be added to the currently rather poor Help pages. Concerning the Help files, they are currently handled by the l10n team and the developers, not the Documentation team, I'm not sure it's a problem if we (l10n) know where to look for when there is an issue with the help (the help on the wiki is taken from the files on Pootle). If it's better to handle it that way for you, no problem. Such additional info currently is missing on the French Bug Report Details page. I'll take care to align all the FR pages to the existent QA one. I would like to keep this read more concept, because I prefer some structure instead of 1000 lines Wiki pages. But if we want to do so, Rob should give advice how such BugzAssHlp_Documentation_long/Fr wiki can be handled by the BSA software to get some liséz plus also in the Localized BSA. Yes agreed, and thanks all for the great work :) Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-documentation] De-geeking BugReport on Wiki
Hi all, Sorry for the wrong empty mail to you only Tom, I was on my phone. On 16/02/2013 21:18, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) wrt coloured backgrounds a pale yellow often helps some people with dyslexia. So, i kinda like the simplicity of green for users, amber for more technical pages or internal pages such as minutes of meetings and then perhaps white writing on red for devs but i think it could easily get really bad visually. Actually i like Sophie's point about the Documentation Team being responsible for wiki's in the documentation section and other teams being in charge of their's. I didn't said exactly that or didn't formulate it clearly. What I mean is that if you work on another section, you should make the team (and the i18n community behind) that you are doing modification on their pages. I understand your point on simplifying the language for the user, but we also want contributors. For that we need to simplify the entries, but also to educate them to our vocabulary, the roles in the community and the workflows. For me hiding everything behind a general wording is not the way to educate people or we should manage a step where he get the knowledge of how things are working in the community and feel include in that process. It's also, most of the time, picking his interest because he has known something of how it works at the end of the day. If we did go that route then everything aimed at normal users could be in the documentation section, preferably as sub-sub-sub-pages off the Published page. Unfortunately that would mean moving a lot of pages. Hum, the documentation project has a very important purpose that is providing documentation and recruiting volunteers for this purpose. I can't imagine that somebody willing to help with QA, l10, whatever will go under the documentation project for this (and most of other production os project are organized the same). There is already the BSA for the user who just want to fill a bug. If he wants to go further and speaks English, he will go on the QA project pages and will try to learn more about it, after either on the list or irc. The best, in my personal opinion, would be that the documentation project redesign the home page of the wiki whit the marketing list and the projects list to make it contributor friendly. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] French Bug
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Rob, On 05/01/2013 11:03, Rob Snelders wrote: Hi All, Can somebody triage this French Bug as I don't know French. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58974 Rainer has managed it. When you find such a bug in French, could you send it to the q...@fr.libreoffice.org list? our team will take care of it. Thanks Kind regards Sophie - -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQ6AMxAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNa2AH/25XDe3lTXf7WjPNlPP07bHc ipfwzMZDmw1eiO15XWa7/0CpnnqFhr4kmHGuMtvHn6YsYI9c0jHaoiQuG+aW9Z3P 2WAUKX6j0tbYJxjMvNfe1wc2fLXb5orcHyCnt9dYICBFbAgb9AFQtG3b4qYYnGSY 3ZVICvfqGEm6jUN5uvwaWrHLrreYOyE9lcaezotimcMFsC7YOPiSBg/AGONY0WU3 HhLqYzkElRt1td1yn8MJ6wH9XjVLK5K8WM4es96f8gDJnun2bxNEBaXL2fvlLNr+ A3EkYMl6eTvbFKfSwylRY9/aJw2ELzDksxZKiSEZG6jhiAwb2jhzUs/xqGWLKhg= =znU3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of the QA Call tomorrow, Tuesday 1300UTC
On 02/11/2012 16:13, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Petr Mladek wrote on 2012-11-02 14:12: I wonder if wiki is good for this purpose or it there is a better solutions. I am afraid that we could not increase the limit in bugzilla easily. the wiki is used for that, lacking alternatives, but it is definitely not optimal. :/ If you let me know what you need, I can see if we can set up e.g. a web service for doing so. Anonymous FTP is a risk becuase everyone can abuse us as filehoster then, but would something with authentication people can sign up via email, like done on the wiki, be sufficient? What we need is a very simple way for a French user to send an attachment. If he needs to subscribe or register elsewhere and elsewhere again, I fear we'll just have to close the bug because he will never come back. Are attachments completely disabled on the q...@fr.libreoffice.org mailing list? IMHO, a good practice is to allow attachments up to 100kB. Large documents should wait for moderator approval. In general, big attachments are not a good idea because of the multiplication effect (too many receivers). They're fully disabled on purpose. I'd be hesitant enabling them, especially because it also requires some development work on our side regarding the filters. Right now it's all or nothing, i.e. no attachments or all attachments... For a list like QA@fr and the process we try to put in place it could be a good solution however. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of the QA Call tomorrow, Tuesday 1300UTC
HI all, On 23/10/2012 21:50, bfo wrote: Bjoern Michaelsen wrote - in theory, it is possible to make the BSA file bugs without the reporter registering (Petr/Bjoern) - without keeping the original reporter in the loop, bug report quality will only get worse Hi. Anonymous bug reports would be more or less useless, unless you are thinking about implementing crash platforms like https://crash-stats.mozilla.com where anonymous reports are processed and users can check current status of their reports along with assigned bug numbers (about:crashes in Firefox for instance). Already some bug reports need heavy QA involvement (lots of time and e-mail judo skills) to be polished and prepared for interested developers. To be honest, with a current backlog, a lot of them should be RESOLVED INVALIDated and not babysitted. I just can't imagine what would happen when we could be flooded by anonymous fillings... Bjoern Michaelsen wrote - the idea to create to send the bug to a mailing list for review instead of blindly creating a bug is interesting (Bjoern) In some way DUPS are good (see 3.6 release) - properly DUPED bugs will become hot issues in an instant at Most Frequently Reported Bugs for LibreOffice page. But please, no more alternative bug reports channels! I would like to see all bugs in Bugzilla and not have to search for bugs scattered through dozens of MLs or wiki pages. I recently have found that some users are already lost with BSA (https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/) and Bugzilla (https://bugs.freedesktop.org). Just reviewed few incomplete, invalid, duplicate, with strange comments (a person is writing in the bug that he do not know what he has written and is writing it once again, differently, in the same, initial bug (?)). Seems people do not recognize what BSA is all about and by adding a bug there are creating Bugzilla account and adding a bug to Bugzilla itself (some do not understand that fact). I really would like to see BSA as build-in in bugs.freedesktop.org, than as a seperate product (best as this example template adapted - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOfficeformat=guided). Please remember that already LibreOffice as a product has a lot of bug trackers out there... For information, we already have a QA team used to report bugs on our qa@fr list in order to check it on different plateform and LibO version with a test document. Once done, the bug is commented on BZ if it already exists or created by one member of the team able to speak enough English. So alternative report channels already exist but are transparent for you. The proposal made by Bjoern is to make it even more transparent for people working directly on BZ. Bjoern Michaelsen wrote we could do a testdrive of this with those l10n communities that have enough manpower to handle the incoming native language reports: - portuguese/brazil - french - german Bug reports not in English are a problem - I think that getting people ready to translate the bug and chat with the reporter in his native language is a great idea. But only when a good summary comment is added to original bug report in Bugzilla. In English. I would CC such people asking for help now and then. I've discussed the process with our FR team and they are ok to handle it. I've not been able to see if OTRS would be of some help, but we are used to work together on bugs and deal with them asap. The moderation is still an issue. What we need also is a place to get the test/example documents (they are not allowed as mailing list attachment and Nabble is not always the best to deal with). We have to make sure that the bug filled on BZ will be tagged as already managed by our team (nobody to search on duplicates again or tests on other OS, version etc.) and that they will marked as confirmed or even assigned to somebody. I should be able to attend the next QA call. Let me know if you need more from me in the meantime. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [bjoern.michael...@canonical.com: minutes of the QA Call tomorrow, Tuesday 1300UTC]
Hi all, On 29/10/2012 12:19, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote on 2012-10-29 08:51: We really should document that more -- there is only one (mostly irrelevant) notion of otrs on the wiki and searching the website list only shows two obscure references. That should definitely change. But even if you have an account, you likely would not see how to use it until you have a mail queue setup. OTRS indeed lacks some documentation, but was up to now mostly used internally by the admins. No worries, however, from my side to opening it up to a wider audience. I'm not sure we really need it. I know that the mails coming the the QA list will be managed quiet quickly by our team members. But what we need is: - no moderation - the possibility to allow attachments (test/example documents) to the list. Robert is in charge and knows how to create accounts. So Robert, could you please create an account for me. Using sophie as a login would be ok for me. Thanks in advance Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [bjoern.michael...@canonical.com: minutes of the QA Call tomorrow, Tuesday 1300UTC]
Hi Björn, On 23/10/2012 21:46, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Sophie, On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:16:32PM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: On 23/10/2012 17:39, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi, please feel invited to discuss the proposal below. The idea is basically this: - let people file bugs on the BSA (bug submission agent) in a few selected native languages - instead of creating a bug on bugzilla, send the stuff to the local mailing list - the local team: - looks for duplicates - asks for missing info - finally files a translated high quality bug report This might help improve both the low quality bug reports we get from the BSA, and enable local contributors top get involved. However, it also requires the local teams to quickly handle the load. I think it's a really nice idea. Please let me the time to discuss this with the FR QA team and come with his feedback. Just another thought: Since the TDF already has an instance of OTRS running at: https://otrs.documentfoundation.org and how do I log on this marvelous tool ;-) I can't see any way where I can request an account. Also, where is it already in use, is it in the QA project ? Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [bjoern.michael...@canonical.com: minutes of the QA Call tomorrow, Tuesday 1300UTC]
Hi Bjoern, On 23/10/2012 17:39, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi, please feel invited to discuss the proposal below. The idea is basically this: - let people file bugs on the BSA (bug submission agent) in a few selected native languages - instead of creating a bug on bugzilla, send the stuff to the local mailing list - the local team: - looks for duplicates - asks for missing info - finally files a translated high quality bug report This might help improve both the low quality bug reports we get from the BSA, and enable local contributors top get involved. However, it also requires the local teams to quickly handle the load. I think it's a really nice idea. Please let me the time to discuss this with the FR QA team and come with his feedback. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] FR irc session and Moztrap
Hi all, This is just to let you know that the FR group is going to have a QA IRC (FR channel) session on 3.6.2 RC1 tomorrow and on Saturday. I'll give you a summary on how it goes on Sunday. @Yifan, sorry for the delay answering your mails, I'll have time tomorrow to go on with Moztrap. I'll have also time in the next days to dedicate to the test migration, but I'll answer you specifically on this tomorrow. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] moztrap registration error
Hi Mas, On 12/09/2012 14:25, Mas wrote: I attempted to register for the moztrap application and received the following error Forbidden (403)CSRF verification failed. Request aborted.More information is available with DEBUG=True. It seems you didn't read http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Moztrap/Moztrap_User_Guide I get this error with Chrome and couldn't log but Firefox is ok for me. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Regression test (Moztrap) test case localization temporary solution.
Hi Yifan, On 04/09/2012 04:35, Yifan Jiang wrote: Hi Sophie, Petr, all, Thanks for the discussion and sorry for the late response that I was busy of other works these days :( no problem :) Visually the second one is also my most favorite, so let's start here. In this week, I will arrange time to update the test cases and make their format consistent with the prototype 2. http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/manage/case/99/ ok, thanks a lot. @Sophie, As for the 3.6.3 testing, do you have an estimation when would it be happening? Currently there are only English cases in the database migrated from Litmus. We will still need some time to migrate other language versions before arranging tests. Looking back to Litmus, there are 4 languages version of test cases: en/de/fr/pt-Br, if necessary we could also create Ja section awaiting for input. It will be on week 41, but it's more because I need deadlines than a really fixed date ;) How do you migrate the tests, would I be able to give an hand or is by using some scripts or some magic ? As for the languages, I'll ask on the list for motivated teams and will tell you. As for the l10n related hacking, they need large scope of changes in both frontend and backend. I would plan at least 1 dev month to do all the stuff including: Moztrap UI l10n implementing, test case l10n hacking and the relevant tests before they are good enough to be online. ok, thanks for this estimation, that will help me in my research for funding. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Regression test (Moztrap) test case localization temporary solution.
Hi Petr, all, On 03/09/2012 17:34, Petr Mladek wrote: [...] So the feedback from our team is the 2nd presentation that is preferred over the others, it seems to be more readable for all of them. May be we can go for the first presentation until we get more languages but do not forget about another solution where the steps and the expected results are grouped for the same language. Sophie, thanks a lot for getting the feedback. When I think about it, also the 2nd approach can be parsed by a script. It is more complicated, probably more error prone but possible. Thus it can be moved into to really localized framework almost automatically as well. So, the second approach is probably the best temporary solution. Thanks for your investigation :) For information, I will try to organize a testing session on Moztrap for the 3.6.3 version with the FR project. May be we can try to organize a full session with very few languages, like may be DE, JA, FR at the same time? Also do you have an idea of the time needed (day per man dev) and the cost to make Moztrap fully localized (UI + content) ? Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Regression test (Moztrap) test case localization temporary solution.
Hi Yi Fan, On 27/08/2012 07:19, Yi Fan Jiang wrote: Hi Sophie, Thanks for following this :) I am looking forward to your further input. I'll test more in depth Moztrap tomorrow. For information, I was unable to login using Chrome but it was ok with Firefox. How does it look like when failing to login with Chrome? There is an issue related with CSRF veirication need to follow in current our Moztrap instance. It happens in both Chrome and Firefox randomly, though *refreshing* times of the page will get through the annoying message. Please see: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Moztrap/Moztrap_User_Guide#Registration_and_Login Did you meet the similar problem or something else? This was exactly the problem, and even refreshing didn't work on Chrome, I was able to register, but that's all. Firefox was ok, showing the error once, but after it was ok. BTW. I have added you in the test manager group so that you can play with more features :) Thanks a lot. I've have a computer crash that prevent me for doing anything else than trying to recover everything, but now it's ok and I will have time to go further during tomorrow and over the week-end. Again thanks a lot for working on this and sorry for the delay bring to all this from my side. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi Bjoern, On 15/08/2012 13:00, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:44:07PM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote: 2. translate the test case in wiki and give the link back to Moztrap I am afraid that it would be hard to maintain and too much clicking. Maybe we could add a link to the page itself on google translate? For understanding the testcase it should be good enough (if not we extend the original description, which helps the english and the localized community?) I fear manually translated testcases are doomed to fail as they will always be outdated/incomplete during the timeframe that matters. Using automatic translation (and tweaking the original so it comes out understandable) might work though. Automatic translation is by now mostly only a problem, if you dont control the source. Imho, that won't work for two reasons: - behavior is not the same in every language and testing may differ/be adapted depending on the local - UI strings are not the same due to localization, and we are also QAing our l10n when we do those tests in our language Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi Bjoern, 15/08/2012 15:20, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 02:29:53PM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: Imho, that won't work for two reasons: - behavior is not the same in every language and testing may differ/be adapted depending on the local In that case it is even more important that the testcase describe _all_ the information for _all_ locales, otherwise there will be a terrible mess with conflicting feedback (e.g. english testers reporting its fine, french reporter reporting it is broken, both thinking they are testing the same thing). Such a testcase _must_ contain the whole behaviour for all locales, e.g.: 1) Open libreoffice Note: In the low german localization, you are required to mumble Moin while doing that. it's not necessary, the people from the team who reports a misbehavior is aware of the difference between EN and his language. This is one of the first thing you check when you are testing a local environment, you've got it in both language every time. And for example, I don't care how it behaves in German or when using CJK, etc. If it happens that there is a real strange thing, we speak together with the other language teams (the reason of the request for a dedicated list) and try to sort out a real bug or a problem with the test, just as we do with l10n. - UI strings are not the same due to localization, and we are also QAing our l10n when we do those tests in our language Thats also easily amended/clarified in cases were the autotranslation does fail. Also I dont think we want to hardcode the expected translations in the testcases -- that makes no sense at all (as that hardcoding is just as likely, if not more so, to be wrong or outdated as the product). Checking/understanding the google autotranslation takes more time than doing it straight ;) Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
On 15/08/2012 17:31, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 04:29:10PM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: it's not necessary, the people from the team who reports a misbehavior is aware of the difference between EN and his language. This is one of the first thing you check when you are testing a local environment, you've got it in both language every time. Thats a rather dangerous assumption as it severely raises the barrier to entry. Documenting such differences by having texts that say slightly different things in different languages is a horrible idea. Beside the facts that we worked that way for years, if you don't trust the people managing the tests and the team, Litmus/Moztrap is useless, as they will be the only persons able to understand the test results (and the remarks of testers) and compare them to BZ anyway. There is a process and an organization where the tool is only a database for us (but without it we can't do anything unfortunately). Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Moztrap, some questions
Hi Yifan, On 13/08/2012 12:08, Yifan Jiang wrote: Hi Sophie, On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:14:34AM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: Hi all, Yifan, So after a long time (sorry for this long absence), I would like to come back to Moztrap and try to help to test it. Welcome back :) Please let me know if you got problem of registration. My first question, the most important for us, is there now a possibility of localization for : - the tests - the environment From what I see on the todo list Yifan has written long ago the point : 5. Look into i18n and l10n of Moztrap, we need translation system for both test cases and Moztrap UI. Does it mean that it's possible, or does it mean it's not yet possible or that we need to find/define a translation process? I ever had a talk with the Moztrap developers and it seems neither of the localization plans has been on the rador yet :( It needs some deep hacking of the code if we want to do that particularly to Libreoffice. So it is not easy to handle the localization in Moztrap yet. One way to workaround is to mix localized wording of test cases into the existing English ones, as what we did for Litmus. But it is rather time consuming to translate and maintain, because Moztrap split test cases into steps. With this method, we need to *manually* maintain translation for each test steps and their corresponding expected results. Besides, for some of the test cases, localized version might not share exact steps with the English version. So I did not put anything localized to the Moztrap test case base yet. I feel it is possibly better to maintain translation version of test cases in a different data set, either by hacking the existing Moztrap database or putting the translation for test cases to somewhere else like wiki, then manually put the link back to Moztrap original English test case. Any way, we currently really need more people to get involved, try Moztrap, make contribution and share ideas :) One question is can we termporarily survive with pure English wording test cases, though they are allowed to choose running under any localizations? I didn't replied yesterday because I wanted to think more about it. I feel that investing work (and you already have invested a good amount of work on it) in a tool dedicated to tests for average users in the language communities that is not localizable (or with lot of difficulties) is a waste of time. We will miss our goal and take the risk to provide one more tool (after Litmus) that is not suitable to the people wanting to contribute and will discourage them. My second question: is there a possibility to store sample documents on Moztrap. Yes, one of the moztrap's nice feature is attachement support per test case :) that's a good point, but unfortunately less important that localization. Thanks for your quick answer, I will continue to seek a solution for these manual tests in all languages. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] feedback on the fr bug hunting session
Hi Bjoern, On 09/07/2012 11:25, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Sophie, On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:47:27AM +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: Some information on the bug hunting session in the FR community, there has been 7 persons participating during the two days (they even go on on Sunday :). I'm now collecting feedback to draw a better process for our group. All the issues found have been filled, reopened or commented. Thats pretty amazing and an outstanding result! Is there a possibility to get one or two of the participant on this list as a contact to the international qa community? That will come :) but their is still some work to do at a local level to grow and have a strong team able to work on his own. This is of course part of my goal to bring more members to bridge with the international qa community. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] FR QA team
Hi all, Just to let you know that I'm organizing a bug hunting session in French, aiming the 6th and 7th, but I think it will be too short in time (joining irc, installing the version in parallel, etc... need time). However, it's a work in progress and we should have a team of 10 people testing the 3.6. My goal is to transform it in a regular testing team (and to enlarge it of course ;). I'll report our progress here. Kind regards Sophie ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-projects] minutes for the LibreOffice QA call 2012-04-06 1400UTC
Hi Cor, On 10/04/2012 22:45, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote (06-04-12 19:55) - CaseConductor evaluation [...] - Rainer: we need better documentation on the why of Litmus/MozTrap [...] - Kendy: Need for regular manual testing for update scenarios [...] - given the limited current reach of Litmus, we might propagate in blogs too - we really need to make structured manual a lot more visible for 3.6 I look forward to the outcome of the Litmus/MozTrap evaluation and improvements in this area. It will help people run the tests more easily. However, we must not forget that it's just that and not more. If it's easy, it will attract people too. QA is frightening for a lot of users because it looks like technical when it's not. The tool should help that and currently Litmus is not fulfilling that. Evaluation of the current situation showed some lack of available time with people considered to work with it (and other QA topics). Thus if we forget that, and only do improve the tooling... it might turn out to be fooling our selves. In that case we know that we can't extend people time, so let extend the number of contributors by providing an easy way to participate. Tools are only tools but this is what our contributors are playing with, see Pootle for example, it's the same here, it should be as easy as and as flexible as Pootle. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LibreOffice QA call 2012-04-06 1400UTC
Hi Bjoern, all, Unfortunately I won't be able to attend tomorrow. Bjoern did you get some time to install Case conductor locally or shall I ask on our website list to have a staging session of it so that we are free to play with it an evaluate it for next week? Currently the access on Moz staging server is really limited and I can ask to have some rights granted, but I don't know if this is what we want, what do you think? Kind regards Sophie On 05/04/2012 17:14, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi there, this is the reminder that we have the next QA call on Friday: 2012-04-06 1400UTC Given that this is a holiday in a lot of places (I realized that too late) we might end up with only a few people on the call. Hopefully, we can counter that by discussing everything we missed out on the Hackfest. prototype agenda: * action item review - Check if test documents are URLs properly distributed to Checkbox (Bjoern) - Update/Create active triagers wiki page (Cor/Rainer) - Publish Rainers charts'n data on blog/planets (Cor) - collect further ideas for spending a dedicated resource (Cor/Rainer) - blocked: to get a concise list need to make a CaseConductor/Litmus choice - Set Cor up with the Community/Forum maintainers at the distros to better propagate Hackfests, Bug Hunting Sessions etc. (Petr, Caolan, others?) - Walkthrough setup at Hackfest to find out what need better docs (Bjoern/Rainer) - Setting up a ready-to-go VirtualBox with everything installed would be cool (Bjoern/Korrawit?) https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47648 - automated test docs: really straightforward for Calc, just needs more CSV test documents (all) https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47667 * structured manual testing - first checkbox results maybe? - CaseConductor/MozTrap evaluation * bug wrangling - generic bug tagging http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-Adding-RTL-Keyword-td3872406.html * community building/communication * automated testing * bibisect for 3.5 and 3.6 master Dial-in numbers for countries outside Germany can be found at: http://www.talkyoo.net/main/telefonkonferenz_internationale_rufnummern Dial-in numbers inside Germany are: +49 40 18881000 (Hamburg, landline) +49 40 95069970 (Hamburg, landline) +49 89 60893 (Munich, landline) +49 1570 3336000 (vistream mobile network) Room: Room number: 53 71 38 No participant PIN is required All calls will be recorded All participants can speak Note that you can also use Skype to join the call. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Investigating Caseconductor for next QA call
Hi Bjoern, all, On 30/03/2012 10:41, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Pedro, On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 04:16:59AM -0700, Pedro wrote: Your comments make perfect sense. I am available to help with a serious comparison of Litmus vs Caseconductor. Did you already have a chance to have a look at: https://caseconductor-dev.allizom.org/ http://readthedocs.org/docs/case-conductor/en/latest/index.html to see if it would work for us? As said I had a testaccount, but failed to find out how to: - report a test result - create a new test case which are the most basic and important tasks. I might be that my account simply didnt have the permissions to do so, but that would need clarification -- best by working directly with the CaseConductor guys. Would it be possible to give us a first overview of Litmus vs. Caseconductor by Friday next week for the next QA-call(*)? That would be great, as it would help us push forward the decisions on how to proceed with test case management! Im also CC'ing Rimas, as he was looking forward to Caseconductor as a possible replacement. @Ritmas: Would you be interested in joining Pedro in investigating this? I'm not Pedro or Rimas, but I would have time to have a look for the end of next week. If you think I'm not enough skilled, no problem. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Bjoern, all, I've added Nicholas in copy of this mail On 02/03/2012 13:50, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Sophie, all, On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 11:29:32AM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: So, I'm ready to work on this, but as underlined by Yifan, it would be interesting for us to keep also our Litmus system up to date and synchronized because it's used under several OS and languages so it has a real interest here. The ability of syncing the 2 test bases would be really great as it would avoid duplicating the work for the maintainers. Anyway, I'm here to help, so don't hesitate to tell me what to do :-) Syncing the testbases will be nifty, but for now we should concentrate on getting the existing testcases into checkbox. Beta2 is on 2012-03-29(*) and we should make sure that we have as much tests in there as possible by then as there will be widely distibuted calls for testing like this one: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/03/opportunity-manual-application-testing.html then and we really should not miss that opportunity. We can discuss syncronizing testcase bases etc. later. The time window is between 2012-03-29 and 2012-04-26 should get what ever testing we can out of that. A we can discuss creating a nifty sync solution after that as we will have some time to the Libreoffice 3.6 and Ubuntu p+1 releases. So: just getting the tests over to checkbox now (manually or by whatever means) should have priority. Do we agree there? ok, but I won't install ubuntu, setup an environment on launchpad and install bazaar (or do I have to? is it mandatory?). So a little help so that I don't spend all my week-end on this would be: - is this link the good one for test formatting? http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/CaseAndPlanGuidelines - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? - on this page, there is several tests for Ubuntu/OOo, Kubuntu/OOo, Applications/LibreOffice, etc. What is the one I choose Thanks in advance, Kind regards Sophie Best, Bjoern (*) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04-beta-2 ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Petr, On 02/03/2012 16:03, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 14:33 +0100: - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? Great point. We have only very few test cases in Litmus (less than 50) and the quality is debatable :-/ For example, I see test cases: + create empty Writer document + create empty Calc document I do not think that we need manual tests for this. This basic operation is part of any other complex test. In addition, exactly this is tested within few seconds using the smoketest. Another bunch of tests sounds like: + Translation check of creating a new database + Translation check when creating a table in a database + Translation check for Formula Editor Well, I don't think you get the purpose of what Litmus was done for. It was for community testing at large, so very easy and short tests to bring interest to the testing. It should have help also localizer to test there version. Just as we did by the past and it worked well. Some spend only 30mn others more that 3 hours because the online tests was only the very basis of larger tests with a set of documents. So it's more about the life of a team, than only a basic test. Unfortunately we don't have the good tool here and no money to develop what could suite our needs. Mozilla was developing a tool but it's not yet done either. Of course, we need to check that the application is translated but we can't check every dialog manually. We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Instead of the above particular dialogs, we should check that different elements are localized, for example: + File/New menu - because it consists of optional components that are added from xml registry files + main menu and one submenu + a dialog with tabs, check boxes, combo boxes, itemized list, and other elements + help - because it using another technology than the other dialogs + KDE/GNOME safe dialog because they are done another technology as well + extensions - because the translation is done slightly different way If one submenu is localized, the other submenus should be localized as well if the strings are in pootle. It's not about localization only (but it's good for CTL and CJK) , but also about the design of the dialog that allow to see the whole string and then adapt the dialog or the l10n. It's not about to see if it works, it's about the quality of the l10n and the design. IMHO, we need to discuss what test cases make sense and create a reasonable test cases first. We are still looking for an experienced QA guy who could step in, teach people and drive this forward. So lets wait for that guy. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Petr, First, I don't take anything personal in your mail. I disagree with you but it's nothing personal :) On 02/03/2012 17:26, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 16:20 +0100: Another bunch of tests sounds like: + Translation check of creating a new database + Translation check when creating a table in a database + Translation check for Formula Editor Well, I don't think you get the purpose of what Litmus was done for. It was for community testing at large, so very easy and short tests to bring interest to the testing. It should have help also localizer to test there version. Just as we did by the past and it worked well. Some spend only 30mn others more that 3 hours because the online tests was only the very basis of larger tests with a set of documents. So it's more about the life of a team, than only a basic test. Unfortunately we don't have the good tool here and no money to develop what could suite our needs. Mozilla was developing a tool but it's not yet done either. I appreciate that you want to teach people using Litmus. Though, I am afraid that you did not get my point. I don't want to teach them using Litmus, I want them to get an interest, get fun and don't feel harassed by the task. Please, read the above mentioned test cases. One test describe how get into one dialog and asks to check that all strings are translated. Another test cases describes how to reach another dialog where the strings need to be checked The check for the translation is a second purpose of the test, the first purpose is to check the basics functionalities such as Save as, Open, Copy, Past... etc. IMHO, there are hunderts or thousands of dialogs. IMHO, we do not want a test case for every single dialog. We do not have enough people who could create, translate, and process all such test cases. We are testing functionalities and by the same way are checking for basic i18n conversion (numbers, accentuated characters, date, size of the string...) Also I am not sure if would be effective to use Litmus for this type of testing. It might take few seconds to check that all strings are in a given language. It might take longer time until you enter your result in Litmus and select another test case. Litmus should be an entry for approaching QA for the community at large i.e. no language barrier, no technical barrier, a team behind to guide you further in more complex testing. Unfortunately, it's not a tool adapted to our needs. IMHO, we could do much better job here. If we have strings translated in pootle and the build works correctly, all translated strings are used. By other words, if you have translation for 1000 dialogs in pootle, it is enough to QA only 1 dialog. The strings are extracted from pootle by a script and applied in sources by another tool. If one string is used, others are used as well[*]. As said, I'm not speaking about translation. The contents of the test may confuse you when it speaks about localization, but it's only a second purpose of the test, a *while you are here*, please check that the dialog has the good special characters in your language You might say that you need to check layout of the strings that they are not shrinked. Well, we need not check all strings here. It might be enough to check only strings that look risky (translation is much longer) than the original string. No, it's not enough, because most of the time, the team doing the translation is one person only, so you can't remember where and when the translation is longer than the original, and for some languages it's always true. You might say that we should check quality of the translation. I mean if the translation makes sense in the context of the given dialog. Well, this is not mentioned in the current test case. Also, I am not sure if it is worth the effort. We do not change all strings in every release. So, we do not need to check all translations. When you see the amount of strings for the number of people doing translation, having a proof reading of the dialog during QA is not a luxury ;) But I agree, as said it's not the first aim of the tests Of course, we need to check that the application is translated but we can't check every dialog manually. We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Hmm, how VCLTesttool helped here? Did it checked that a string was localized? Did it checked if a translation was shrinked or confusing? It took a snapshot of each dialog, menu, submenu, etc. When you want to reach a certain amount of quality for you version, it was very useful because you were sure that everything was checked. I don't say that you run it on each version but I did it on each major OOo versions. Instead of the above particular dialogs, we should check that different elements are localized, for example: + File/New menu - because it consists of optional components
[Libreoffice-qa] Thread on QA done by l10n teams
Hi all, Just to get some information about l10n and QA and also because it's a way to reach more language community members, I've done a quick poll about the tests that are run on the builds, see the thread here : http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/msg04226.html I'll send a summary of the responses during the week-end Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Petr, On 02/03/2012 19:21, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 18:02 +0100: Petr, First, I don't take anything personal in your mail. I disagree with you but it's nothing personal :) I hope that we could learn from each other :-) yes :) On 02/03/2012 17:26, Petr Mladek wrote: I appreciate that you want to teach people using Litmus. Though, I am afraid that you did not get my point. I don't want to teach them using Litmus, I want them to get an interest, get fun and don't feel harassed by the task. Sure. This is my target as well. The translations checks looked boring on the first look. QA has a great potential to get boring ;) We are testing functionalities and by the same way are checking for basic i18n conversion (numbers, accentuated characters, date, size of the string...) Ok, so one example of the current test: --- cut --- Name: Translation check of creating a new database Steps to Perform: *Open a new database file (New → Database) and check [Create a database] then click on Next button. * Check [Yes, I want the wizard to register the database] and [Open the database for edition] and click on Finish. * Enter a name for the database (using special characters in your language) in the dialog box and click OK. Expected Results: * the database wizard open: all strings in the dialog box and window are correctly localized to your own language. --- cut --- Ok, it checks translation and functionality. Do we really need to check the functionality in all 100 localizations? It's only checked in 5 or 6 language, even less if you look at the poll I've ran on the l10n list. IMHO, if the database opens in English, it opens in all licalizations. We do not need to force 100 people to spend time on this functional test. Do we need to check translation even when the strings were not changed between the releases? yes, because the amount of strings in the database is really big and you need more than two eyes to check for the quality. = I strongly suggest to separate translation and functional checks. It is very ineffective to test them together. you spare some resources, most of the time tests are done by people in their native language. Do you want to run them only in English? Thanks to Rimas, we could mark test cases as language dependent and independent, so we have a great support for this separation. Yes but again, this won't change a lot about the translation of the test cases, testers will need to run them in their language. Litmus should be an entry for approaching QA for the community at large i.e. no language barrier, no technical barrier, a team behind to guide you further in more complex testing. Unfortunately, it's not a tool adapted to our needs. I agree with you. I just say that many of the current test cases sounds crazy as they are and might point people in a wrong direction. yes, this is why Litmus is not adapted. As said, I'm not speaking about translation. The contents of the test may confuse you when it speaks about localization, but it's only a second purpose of the test, a *while you are here*, please check that the dialog has the good special characters in your language Yes, it is confusing because they mix the translation and functional tests. All I want to say is that it is not effective and we should not go this way. Ok lets try without checking for the translation, we can remove the specific directions about language in the test. No, it's not enough, because most of the time, the team doing the translation is one person only, so you can't remember where and when the translation is longer than the original, and for some languages it's always true. We could use some scripting here. Andras is interested into the translations stuff. I wonder if he has time and could help here. You might say that we should check quality of the translation. I mean if the translation makes sense in the context of the given dialog. Well, this is not mentioned in the current test case. Also, I am not sure if it is worth the effort. We do not change all strings in every release. So, we do not need to check all translations. When you see the amount of strings for the number of people doing translation, having a proof reading of the dialog during QA is not a luxury ;) But I agree, as said it's not the first aim of the tests Sure. On the other hand, checking 1000 dialogs because you changed only 20 of them is not luxury as well. agreed We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Hmm, how VCLTesttool helped here? Did it checked that a string was localized? Did it checked if a translation was shrinked or confusing? It took a snapshot of each dialog, menu, submenu, etc. When you want to reach a certain amount of quality for you version, it was very useful because you were sure that everything was checked. I don't say that you run it on each version but I
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] manual testing
On 27/02/2012 11:44, Pedro wrote: Sophie Gautier wrote Just a note, the tests that we run under Litmus are for all systems, you can find them here https://tcm.documentfoundation.org/ anybody is invited to participate in English or in his mother language, no problem. Oops, wrong example :) But still, it isn't a tool to be run _under_ Windows (from my understanding of Litmus, I confess I haven't tried it) No, Litmus is an online tool to manage manual test cases. It was developed by the Mozilla team, and we (Rimas and Yifan) have adapted it to our needs. It manages all kind of tests and different languages. So all OS/versions/languages can be represented in the tests. It's really simple to use for the tester, he just has to reproduce what he is reading on the Litmus site into LibreOffice and then mark the test as passed, skip or failed, nothing more :) Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi all, On 24/02/2012 11:12, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Sophie, Cor, QA-List please see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2012-February/003745.html this is an opportunity to get more structured manual testing done on LibreOffice. Could you have a look if you could help out coordinating this with our own efforts to get LibreOffice tested even better? Sorry, I realized I only answered to Bjoern, that was not intended. Although I don't spend much time on QA these last weeks (far less than I would like to), I'll have a look through the week end and give my feedback here. I'm not sure I'll have time to dedicate to this, but I'll try to find it if nobody jump in. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
