Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:46:42 +0200 Von: Risto Vääräniemi [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: till [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: lilypond-user@gnu.org Betreff: Re: GDP: What term do you use? On 28/02/2008, till wrote: I just checked Felix Krohn again (well it is a bit outdated book but the best I could find here in the library) and he calls it oktaava : Thanks, Till, for checking this up. I asked my friend but he didn't remember any special name for it - he plays piano and organs and that kind of markings are probably not common in that kind on music. Korkeimmalla sävelalueella käytetään 8va (oktaava) merkintää viivaston yläpuolella... I think we could just put it oktaava merkintä. Note that he does a distinction in this way between oktaavi (Octave) and oktaava (Ocatvation ?). I guess the word is taken from the italian/latin origin. Did the book suggest using that as a common term for all octave changes (8va, 8vb, 15...)? 8va is easily translated as oktaava and it sounds pretty Finnish - 8vb and consecutively oktaavb on the other hand... :-) If we choose to use that then I'd loose the space and write it oktaavamerkintä (octava marking) or oktaavamerkki (octava mark). I think the normal use would be to call all of them oktaavamerkki, and say then something about one octave down or something like that. I mean, 8va obviously is an abbreviation, and 8vb even more, since the b means an own word (bassa). so yes, let's just have it oktaavamerkki (I actually would prefer -merkintä, since it applies to a longer section and consists also of the dottet line). till Greetings from Rovaniemi The same from Oulu. -Risto -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On 28/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: Finnish: Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish Present! I've been following the conversation with interest but I haven't used ottava brackets myself (I mostly write only vocal music *) so I don't know if they have a name in Finnish. I asked a friend of mine about this but I haven't yet got an answer. I'll try to squeeze an answer from him or at least find out if he's got any clue. *) I have noticed that there is some sort of an octavation present in vocal/choir music, too. If a female sings a note a male picking up the same note usually sings it an octave lower and vice versa. :-) -Risto ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Risto Vääräniemi-2 wrote: On 28/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: Finnish: Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish Present! I've been following the conversation with interest but I haven't used ottava brackets myself (I mostly write only vocal music *) so I don't know if they have a name in Finnish. I asked a friend of mine about this but I haven't yet got an answer. I'll try to squeeze an answer from him or at least find out if he's got any clue. *) I have noticed that there is some sort of an octavation present in vocal/choir music, too. If a female sings a note a male picking up the same note usually sings it an octave lower and vice versa. :-) -Risto I just checked Felix Krohn again (well it is a bit outdated book but the best I could find here in the library) and he calls it oktaava : Korkeimmalla sävelalueella käytetään 8va (oktaava) merkintää viivaston yläpuolella... I think we could just put it oktaava merkintä. Note that he does a distinction in this way between oktaavi (Octave) and oktaava (Ocatvation ?). I guess the word is taken from the italian/latin origin. Greetings from Rovaniemi Till -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/GDP%3A-What-term-do-you-use--tp15522928p15738155.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On 27.02.2008 (11:37), Anh Hai Trinh wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Interesting point... Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a treble_8 clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method. I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would sound with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would sound with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the correct term, if there need be one, would be octave transposition. That's what I'd suggest too -- I failed to say so explicitly, but that was what I had in mind. So: +1 for octave transposition Eyolf -- The moss on the tree does not fear the talons of the hawk. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On 28/02/2008, till wrote: I just checked Felix Krohn again (well it is a bit outdated book but the best I could find here in the library) and he calls it oktaava : Thanks, Till, for checking this up. I asked my friend but he didn't remember any special name for it - he plays piano and organs and that kind of markings are probably not common in that kind on music. Korkeimmalla sävelalueella käytetään 8va (oktaava) merkintää viivaston yläpuolella... I think we could just put it oktaava merkintä. Note that he does a distinction in this way between oktaavi (Octave) and oktaava (Ocatvation ?). I guess the word is taken from the italian/latin origin. Did the book suggest using that as a common term for all octave changes (8va, 8vb, 15...)? 8va is easily translated as oktaava and it sounds pretty Finnish - 8vb and consecutively oktaavb on the other hand... :-) If we choose to use that then I'd loose the space and write it oktaavamerkintä (octava marking) or oktaavamerkki (octava mark). Greetings from Rovaniemi The same from Oulu. -Risto ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On 17.02.2008 (11:41), Valentin Villenave wrote: 2008/2/17, David Fedoruk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... In Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian, it would be oktavering. Yes, I'd prefer to avoid transposition as well. In French, we say octaviation (notice the additional i, it got me confused more than once). Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- The more you complain, the longer God lets you live. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Interesting point... Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a treble_8 clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method. I suggest, then, that we're seeking a term that better describes all these related topics (e.g. octavation, transposed clefs, etc.). Perhaps octave indication or octave indicator? IMO, that accurately describes what it does, without introducing misleading -- and, in some cases, incorrect -- concepts like transposition or displacement. Cheers, Kieren. p.s. I apologise if I've made too much of the semantics of this argument... just trying to help! =) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Interesting point... Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a treble_8 clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method. I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would sound with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would sound with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the correct term, if there need be one, would be octave transposition. --AT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.: Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch other than the original one. It does not imply change of key in all contexts, keys have meaning only in tonal music anyway. --AT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
agreed, octave transposition is what i call it - the notation is transposed d On 27 Feb 2008, at 16:37, Anh Hai Trinh wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Interesting point... Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: the notes in question aren't actually TRANSPOSED or DISPLACED, just like notes in a treble_8 clef are neither TRANSPOSED nor DISPLACED: they are simply NOTATED using a different (shorthand) method. I think you are mistaken here, a concert A written in any clef would sound with f = 440Hz, whereas a written concert A with a 8va bracket would sound with f = 880Hz. Anything sounding at a different interval than what is notated is called transposition in orchestration books. I believe the correct term, if there need be one, would be octave transposition. --AT ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
I'll warn you that you'll have a very hard time convincing me. ;-)
p.s.
Perhaps the best way to convince me is to clarify the difference --
in terms of how it's presented in the Lilypond documentation --
between the octave transposition represented by
\transpose c c'/c, { a b c d e f g c }
and the octave transposition represented by
#(set-octavation +/- 1) a b c d e f g c
Thanks,
Kieren.
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi all,
Even more to the (semantic?) point, the following two are IDENTICAL
with respect to pitch:
\version 2.11.37
\include english.ly
musicClef = \relative
{
\clef treble f e d c
\clef treble_8 bf a g f
}
musicOct = \relative
{
f e d c
#(set-octavation -1) bf a g f
}
\score
{
\musicClef
\musicOct
}
In NEITHER case are the PITCHES transposed in any way -- in both
cases, the PITCHES are identical... and the same as the original.
What's happening here is that, in Version #1 (the clef change) we're
explicitly showing that the notation is in a different clef, whereas
in Version #2 (octavation) we're using a shorthand to transpose the
CLEF ITSELF (while leaving the pitches exactly where they are)!
Therefore, I suggest something like Clef transposition and
octavation, or something like that, so that it's clear that the
PITCHES are not being transposed in any way.
Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?
semantically i completely disagree... ;--)
in both cases the written pitches ARE transposed (sound) down an
octave, as explicitly indicated by the 8_clef in the version, and the
8vb indication in the second. indeed, the whole raison d'etre of those
indications is to show that the displayed pitch is transposed an
octave lower.
in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as
piccolo or double bass, the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and
simply omitted as a convenience.
agreed the sounding pitch in each case is the same, but this is a
notational, not a sounding issue.
d
On 27 Feb 2008, at 19:34, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
Hi all,
Even more to the (semantic?) point, the following two are IDENTICAL
with respect to pitch:
\version 2.11.37
\include english.ly
musicClef = \relative
{
\clef treble f e d c
\clef treble_8 bf a g f
}
musicOct = \relative
{
f e d c
#(set-octavation -1) bf a g f
}
\score
{
\musicClef
\musicOct
}
In NEITHER case are the PITCHES transposed in any way -- in both
cases, the PITCHES are identical... and the same as the original.
What's happening here is that, in Version #1 (the clef change) we're
explicitly showing that the notation is in a different clef, whereas
in Version #2 (octavation) we're using a shorthand to transpose the
CLEF ITSELF (while leaving the pitches exactly where they are)!
Therefore, I suggest something like Clef transposition and
octavation, or something like that, so that it's clear that the
PITCHES are not being transposed in any way.
Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi Damian (et al):
semantically i completely disagree... ;--)
Excellent! I like a good discussion... =)
in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as
piccolo or double bass,
the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a
convenience.
Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start
writing ALL instruments with transposed clefs, to be clear. ;-)
Regardless, the question (for me) still comes down to the way we are
presenting transposition in the documentation. Does transposition
mean taking a set of pitches and changing the pitches that we want to
hear (e.g., \transpose c g { a b c d }) or leaving the pitches we
want to hear as is (explicitly, \transpose c c { a b c d}) and
*notating* them in a non-trivial/non-obvious way?
One process (transposition) alters the original pitches, the other
(clef *or* octavation) is simply a notational convention -- two very
different results, IMO.
Most importantly to the current issue, when looking in the Lilypond
documentation for information on ottava brackets:
1. I would never search for transposition;
2. The heading octave transposition is less accurately
descriptive of the intended content than ottava brackets.
Our goal in all of this should be to IMPROVE the documentation, not
make it less clear.
Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?
the pragmatic 'what would i look for in the index?' approach is going to have to arbitrate here 1. I would never search for transposition; absolutely, i'd look for octave ottava 8va or 8vb Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start writing ALL instruments with transposed clefs, to be clear. ;-) agreed, i always use the 8_clefs but, to be fussy, don't you mean 'transposing clefs'? d ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Kieren MacMillan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Damian (et al):
semantically i completely disagree... ;--)
Excellent! I like a good discussion... =)
in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as
piccolo or double bass,
the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a
convenience.
Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start
writing ALL instruments with transposed clefs, to be clear. ;-)
Regardless, the question (for me) still comes down to the way we are
presenting transposition in the documentation. Does transposition
mean taking a set of pitches and changing the pitches that we want to
hear (e.g., \transpose c g { a b c d }) or leaving the pitches we
want to hear as is (explicitly, \transpose c c { a b c d}) and
*notating* them in a non-trivial/non-obvious way?
One process (transposition) alters the original pitches, the other
(clef *or* octavation) is simply a notational convention -- two very
different results, IMO.
Most importantly to the current issue, when looking in the Lilypond
documentation for information on ottava brackets:
1. I would never search for transposition;
2. The heading octave transposition is less accurately
descriptive of the intended content than ottava brackets.
Our goal in all of this should be to IMPROVE the documentation, not
make it less clear.
Ah, I agree with Kieren here. FWIW, to me the act of transposing something
means taking some pitches and moving them all either up or down by some
interval; there're at least chromatic and diatonic flavors of this and what
they both have in common is the act moving some source material up or down
by some amount. When do we transpose? We transpose when we write out parts
for transposing instruments (into another key). We transpose when we
sequence stuff in Baroque (or quasi-Baroque) passages within a piece (not
necessary into another key or even tonic region, we just transpose a couple
of times to get somewhere else harmonically). And we transpose when we
compose, possibly moving sets or collections of pitches around using the
abstract transposition operator T_n beloved of American pitchclass theory.
None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with octavated
(caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava spanners and an
octavated clefs most certainly do effect octave transposition (which is
absolutely the right phrase here), I would never check the docs for
transposition of any sort when looking up ottava spanners and octavated
clefs. I would check for ottava (spanners) and clefs.
I think I've lost the point of this thread. To me it seems completely
reasonable to talk about transposition when referring to \transpose, to
talk about ottava spanners when talking about ottava spanners, and to lump
octavated clefs into the clefs section since octavated clefs isn't a
phrase that's available in English.
The confusion here must be between the graphic *symbols* for things (like
ottava spanners and clefs) and the musical *effects* of those things (ie,
octave transposition). In general the names of the symbols are probably much
more widely agreed upon than the names of the abstract processes those
symbols effect.
--
Trevor Bača
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Trevor Bača wrote: None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with octavated (caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava spanners and an octavated clefs most certainly do effect octave transposition (which is absolutely the right phrase here), I would never check the docs for transposition of any sort when looking up ottava spanners and octavated clefs. I would check for ottava (spanners) and clefs. I agree - I would look for 'ottava' or 'octave', but not for 'transposition', and I expect this would be the case for most users. The term octave clefs crops up in many places on the 'Net, and while that doesn't prove anything, maybe that simple term would suffice - it certainly sounds more natural (to my ear at least) than octavated. Just a thought. Brett ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan: The term octave clefs crops up in many places on the 'Net, An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applies only to some spanned part of the music, an octave clef (e.g. \clef treble_8 for tenor) indicates that the whole part is notated an octave higher. Cheers, Reinhold - -- - -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHxfCCTqjEwhXvPN0RAp56AJ0ZeJjzE52tXLU2yTQY/cZ4koVUpACfR35Q lXsjRB2z3+WshE+qgW7JOyk= =uZjK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi Damian, agreed, i always use the 8_clefs I will make a point of doing that from now on. (Mostly-)Rhetorical question: I wonder if clefs like treble_5 would be appropriate for transposing instruments? but, to be fussy, don't you mean 'transposing clefs'? I do! Thanks for the reminder. Best, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as piccolo or double bass, the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a convenience. Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start writing ALL instruments with transposed clefs, to be clear. ;-) I'd second that. As a horn player, I sometimes have to play bass clef parts which were written an octave lower than intended pitch (e.g. common in Beethoven's time, but not today), and it can be confusing figuring out what was meant. I didn't know bass and piccolo had to do the same thing at times. Tim Reeves ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi Tim, it can be confusing figuring out what was meant Agreed -- we (as engravers, and composers) can reduce confusion with a little extra effort. I didn't know bass and piccolo had to do the same thing at times. Not to mention bass clarinet players, percussionists (e.g., crotales), some saxophone players, etc. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
I believe the original post asked for how it was *commonly* referred to as. My reply was either transposition or displacement. Neither one of these ways is most or exactly accurate. We should, as I've said before, fall back on the standard reference volumes for music ... those are Harvard Dictionary and the Groves Dictionary or Music and Musicians. Personally I like the way Groves has side stepped the issue and merely recorded the standard terms which are in Italian. We should keep to the accepted standards as much as is possible. One thing is very certain, it is extremely frustrating to find music with instructions in a language I do not understand when it is possible to give the same instructions in terms which are almost universally accepted in that particular type of music. In this case it is Western European Music. Nothing in the history of music has been decreed or set down in stone, in general musicians have agreed upon a standard way of communicating. Lilypond should adopt those as far as is possible. To be sure, much has transpired in the past 150 years that no one could have foreseen. So we have atonal music and the need to have ways of addressing those needs. As far as is possilbe, that should be done in terms which are easily understood by most musicians. I'm sure that the writers of both Harvard and Groves have already had these discussions. Lets learn from them and save ourselves the hassle of repeating those same discussions. We also will have music from non-european traditions to address, so we all have to keep that in mind as well. Cheers, David According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.: Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch other than the original one. It does not imply change of key in all contexts, keys have meaning only in tonal music anyway. -- David Fedoruk B.Mus. UBC,1986 Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003 http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough for music Sergei Rachmaninov ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
On 2008/02/16 12:48 PM, Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Wow ... it's too bad no one here has any strong opinions on the matter. So, since I started the d*mn thread, I have to wrangle it back to its corral. My original question was: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you even bother to name the process)? Here's what I got: Dutch: octaveren (dank aan Alard) Finnish: Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish French: octaviation (merci à Valentin) German: Oktavierung (viele Dank an Reinhold) Italian: all'ottava (alta or bassa) (grazie a Andrew) Spanish: a la octava (gracias a Francisco) Danish, Swedish (and Norwegian): oktavering (tackar till Eyolf ... I think, since none of the machine translators offer any of these languages.) English -- I haven't decided yet among: * octave transposition (thanks to Trevor B., seconded by Anh T., thirded by Damian) * ottava spanners (Trevor B., in a follow-up email) * octave displacement (thanks to David F.) * all'ottava (David F., in a follow-up) * ottava passage (thanks to Ralph P.) * octave indication/indicator (ovtaKieren ... err ... thanks to Kieren) * setting the octave (I just made that up) The main points that I'm considering are -- Trevor B.: The confusion here must be between the graphic *symbols* for things (like ottava spanners and clefs) and the musical *effects* of those things (ie, octave transposition). In general the names of the symbols are probably much more widely agreed upon than the names of the abstract processes those symbols effect. Damian: the pragmatic 'what would i look for in the index?' approach is going to have to arbitrate here Except that *I* have to make a decision ... eventually -- and I would probably search for (octave OR ottava OR octavation) inurl:v2.1 site:lilypond.org (using Google) Kieren: Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND. David F.: Personally I like the way Groves has side stepped the issue and merely recorded the standard terms which are in Italian. So I'm going back to re-read the polemics ... err ... thread. So ... let me mull things over and come back with what I decide. If you'd like to add any last minute comments, please send them directly to me, not the list. That way, people who are trying to figure out how to do something neat in LilyPond won't have to way to arguments over the semantics of writing octaves/ottava brackets/spanners, and whether the process is called transposition/indication (a front runner!)/displacement, or whatnot. Kurtis ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan: The term octave clefs crops up in many places on the 'Net, An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applies only to some spanned part of the music, an octave clef (e.g. \clef treble_8 for tenor) indicates that the whole part is notated an octave higher. Cheers, Reinhold It was octave clefs that I was referring to, not the ottava brackets/spanners, in response to Trevor's reference to 'octavated' clefs, since, as he pointed out, 'octavated' isn't a real word in English. Kurt's original question was about what to call it when you *use* ottava brackets. Personally, I've only ever called it an 'octave change', or referred to an ottava passage/measure. 'Octavation' is not a real word in English, and while I have no objection to neologisms per se, if there is a better English expression that is clearly understood, IMO that's what should appear in the docs. Brett ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
Simon Dahlbacka wrote: FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the note/rest part. (http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/music-glossary/Duration-names-notes-and-rests.html#Duration-names-notes-and-rests http://kainhofer.com/%7Elilypond/Documentation/user/music-glossary/Duration-names-notes-and-rests.html#Duration-names-notes-and-rests) And the swedish name for 128th would be hundratjugoåttondel and 256th tvåhundrafemtiosjättedel Right, so similarly to Danish, for example, words for the corresponding note and rest is: 128th rest: hundratjugoåttondelspaus 128th note: hundratjugoåttondelsnot 256th rest: tvåhundrafemtiosjättedelspaus 256th note: tvåhundrafemtiosjättedelsnot For the question about playing in a different octave, the verb is oktavera in Swedish. I'm not sure how I would express myself if I wanted a music typesetter to use a ottava bracket in the notation. /Mats /Simon 2008/2/18, Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2/17/08 1:09 PM, Risto Vääräniemi [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... More stuff: Quarter notes and rests seem to be named as neljännesosanuotti and neljännesosatauko in the glossary. They are understandable but more common words are neljäsosanuotti and neljäsosatauko. Common as in: * Any Finnish person would understand immediately? or * Any Finnish _musician_ would understand immediately? I'm aiming for the second case -- a musically correct name, but if the Finn on the street can puzzle it out as a special use of ordinal numbers (which is how it looks to me, but that's only a guess because I don't speak Finnish), so much the better. More or less the same goes for 32th notes and rests. I don't think the names in the glossary are really used. I think it would be more proper to use kolmaskymmeneskahdesosanuotti (32-osanuotti, 1/32-osanuotti) for the 32th note and kolmaskymmeneskahdesosatauko (32-osatauko, 1/32-osatauko) for the 32th rest. ... Odd ... they're in the table under Duration names notes and rests, but not under the individual entry in the Glossary. It looks like I have more cleanup to do. Thanks! Kurt ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing School of Electrical Engineering Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
2008/2/17, David Fedoruk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. Yes, I'd prefer to avoid transposition as well. In French, we say octaviation (notice the additional i, it got me confused more than once). Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
When I went to music school (in México) the notes up to 128th went like this: whole = redonda 1/2 = blanca 1/4 = negra 1/8 = corchea 1/16 = semicorchea 1/32 = fusa 1/64 = semifusa 1/128 = garrapatea (i always thought this was hilarious because it sounds like garrapata which is an insect, I believe a tick, so short as to be non trascendental) The teachers didn't bother with any more since they claimed it was not in use. 2008/2/17, Alard de Boer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Feb 16, 2008 11:25 PM, Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes and -rests? In Dutch: 128e noot, 256e noot, 128e rust, 256e rust. In the unlikely case someone would prefer to write out the numbers: honderdachtentwintigste noot tweehonderdzesenvijftigste noot honderdachtentwintigste rust tweehonderdzesenvijftigste rust -- Groeten, Alard. Ceterum censeo MS Word esse delendam. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Daniel Tonda C. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
2008/2/17, Daniel Tonda [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When I went to music school (in México) the notes up to 128th went like this: whole = redonda 1/2 = blanca 1/4 = negra 1/8 = corchea 1/16 = semicorchea 1/32 = fusa 1/64 = semifusa 1/128 = garrapatea (i always thought this was hilarious because it sounds like garrapata which is an insect, I believe a tick, so short as to be non trascendental) Right. Please add: 1/256 = semigarrapatea -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
... What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes and -rests? I was able to get the note names for English (both flavors), French, Spanish, Italian and German elsewhere. That's why I only asked for the names in Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish only. In English, this would depend on which side of the Atlantic you live in. Here in North America the standard terminology would be 128th note/rest or 256th note or rest. I'm not sure what the British call it. It will be something like semi-demi-hemi-quaver I believe.. someone will correct me if I'm wrong (quite possible!) If you follow the pattern, a 128th-note would be a semihemidemisemiquaver (though I have heard it called a quasihemidemisemiquaver) and a 256-note would be a demisemihemidemisemiquaver. But thanks for answering anyway. (Alard already answered for Dutch, so maybe I need to make a more pointed request to the known Danish, Finnish, and Swedish speakers on the list). Thanks! Kurt ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
Dear Kurt, On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the ... Finnish words for 128th note 128-osanuotti (1/128-osanuotti) (yksi)sadaskahdeskymmeneskahdeksasosanuotti Breakup: sadas = 100th, kahdeskymmenes = 20th (2th (deliberate), 10th), kahdeksas = 8th, osa = part nuotti = note and 256th-notes 256-osanuotti (1/256-osanuotti) (yksi)kahdessadasviideskymmeneskuudesosanuotti Breakup: kahdessadas = 200th (2th (deliberate), 100th), viideskymmenes = 50th (5th, 10th), kuudes = 6th, etc You're welcome. :-) -Risto ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
Oh yes. Forgot the rests. On 17/02/2008, Risto Vääräniemi wrote: On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the ... Finnish words for 128th note The rest names are formed like this. 128th rest: 1/128-osatauko (128-osatauko). 256th rest: 1/256-osatauko (256-osatauko) For the really long textual versions, substitute nuotti (note) for tauko (rest). More stuff: Quarter notes and rests seem to be named as neljännesosanuotti and neljännesosatauko in the glossary. They are understandable but more common words are neljäsosanuotti and neljäsosatauko. More or less the same goes for 32th notes and rests. I don't think the names in the glossary are really used. I think it would be more proper to use kolmaskymmeneskahdesosanuotti (32-osanuotti, 1/32-osanuotti) for the 32th note and kolmaskymmeneskahdesosatauko (32-osatauko, 1/32-osatauko) for the 32th rest. For the 64th note and rest the names are OK. For written text you can also use 64-osanuotti or 1/64-osanuotti for notes and 64-osatauko or 1/64-osatauko for rests. -Risto ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the note/rest part. ( http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/music-glossary/Duration-names-notes-and-rests.html#Duration-names-notes-and-rests ) And the swedish name for 128th would be hundratjugoåttondel and 256th tvåhundrafemtiosjättedel /Simon 2008/2/18, Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2/17/08 1:09 PM, Risto Vääräniemi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... More stuff: Quarter notes and rests seem to be named as neljännesosanuotti and neljännesosatauko in the glossary. They are understandable but more common words are neljäsosanuotti and neljäsosatauko. Common as in: * Any Finnish person would understand immediately? or * Any Finnish _musician_ would understand immediately? I'm aiming for the second case -- a musically correct name, but if the Finn on the street can puzzle it out as a special use of ordinal numbers (which is how it looks to me, but that's only a guess because I don't speak Finnish), so much the better. More or less the same goes for 32th notes and rests. I don't think the names in the glossary are really used. I think it would be more proper to use kolmaskymmeneskahdesosanuotti (32-osanuotti, 1/32-osanuotti) for the 32th note and kolmaskymmeneskahdesosatauko (32-osatauko, 1/32-osatauko) for the 32th rest. ... Odd ... they're in the table under Duration names notes and rests, but not under the individual entry in the Glossary. It looks like I have more cleanup to do. Thanks! Kurt ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
2008/2/18, Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 schrieb Simon Dahlbacka: FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the note/rest part. Ahm, no, in German we also say ... actually, what I meant (but failed to explicitly spell out) was that on that particular page I linked to: German, Danish, Swedish, Dutch doesn't include the note/rest part but Finnish does. Not counting the languages that use own words, (not sure in which group I should put French though) /Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
On 2/17/08 2:44 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahm, no, in German we also say ganze Note (whole) halbe Note (half) Viertelnote (quarter) Achtelnote (eighth) Sechzehntelnote or 16tel-Note (sixteenth) Zweiunddreißigstelnote or 32tel-Note (32th) Vierundsechzigstelnote or 64tel-Note (64th) 128tel-Note (Hunderachtundzwanzistelnote is grammatically correct, but I doubt that any sane person would write it out like this...) I never said that I was (completely) sane. Also, should that be Hundertachtundzwanzigstelnote (with a t after Hunder- and g after -zwanzi-)? 256tel-Note Unsanely: Zweihundertsechsundfünfzigstelnote (?) It looks like I rather more editing to do than I originally thought. Oh, well. Thanks! Kurt ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
On 2/17/08 3:01 PM, Simon Dahlbacka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/2/18, Reinhold Kainhofer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 schrieb Simon Dahlbacka: FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the note/rest part. Ahm, no, in German we also say ... actually, what I meant (but failed to explicitly spell out) was that on that particular page I linked to: German, Danish, Swedish, Dutch doesn't include the note/rest part but Finnish does. Not counting the languages that use own words, (not sure in which group I should put French though) /Simon Since I¹ve gotten so much great feedback, I¹m going to change that page so it includes the note and rest names for all the listed languages, not just Finnish and French. Yay ... more work ... Kurt ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 schrieben Sie: I never said that I was (completely) sane. Also, should that be Hundertachtundzwanzigstelnote (with a t after Hunder- and g after -zwanzi-)? Yes! Now you see why no sane person would write that out in full... 256tel-Note Unsanely: Zweihundertsechsundfünfzigstelnote (?) Yes. Reinhold - -- - -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHuMUmTqjEwhXvPN0RArSuAJwK4OZFv1QpkfJnl9yVbRz7P1+MdwCdHrfI Z47d31Xt49rueWZT2fi4UR4= =05NA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
Hi Kurt, On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: So, does the preferred hyphenation follow this parsing? If so, I'll have to change the entries for 32osanuotti and 64osanuotti, from * kolmaskymme-neskahdesosa-nuotti * kuudeskymme-nesneljäsosa-nuotti to something like this * kolmas-kymmenes-kahdesosa-nuotti * kuudes-kymmenes-neljäsosa-nuotti ... I think ... please correct me if I'm mistaken. Are they used for soft hyphenation? The lower ones are much better for that purpose. They are understandable but more common words are neljäsosanuotti and neljäsosatauko. Common as in: * Any Finnish person would understand immediately? or * Any Finnish _musician_ would understand immediately? I'd say both. :-) I've not seen the neljännesosanuotti / -tauko versions outside LP documentation. Even Google returns only a handful of results and they are mostly from LP docs. OTNeljännesosa is sort of redundant. Neljännes already means neljäsosa (a quarter), so neljännesosanuotti would probably mean a quarter part note./OT Odd ... they're in the table under Duration names notes and rests, but not under the individual entry in the Glossary. Ah. So it seems. I would use the ones in the table. Another thing... There's a English - Finnish musical terminology dictionary online at: http://www2.siba.fi/kielimateriaalit/index.php?id=61la=fi The UI is in Finnish but it should be pretty easy to use. Hopefully this stuff was helpful. -Risto ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
GDP: What term do you use?
I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you even bother to name the process)? Since this will go into the glossary, please respond with the preferred term in any of these languages: Danish Dutch English Finnish French German Italian Spanish Swedish Thanks! Kurtis PS: Internally, LilyPond calls this octavation ... which I only included because I couldn't think of a better term. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Samstag, 16. Februar 2008 schrieb Kurt Kroon: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you even bother to name the process)? German To play/sing something an octave higher or lower is called oktavieren (the verb), the noun is Oktavierung. See e.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oktavierung PS: Internally, LilyPond calls this octavation ... which I only included because I couldn't think of a better term. At least the English wikipedia page does not give a proper term for it, either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave#Notation http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=106516idForum=1lp=endelang=de Cheers, Reinhold - -- - -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer * Chorvereinigung Jung-Wien, http://www.jung-wien.at/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHt1ImTqjEwhXvPN0RAoIxAJ9lg70Xuf0r19yFuMYG/qyhTqbfMwCeOubL x340xpNxG41dYAevFk/Vmag= =ptz6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi all, To play/sing something an octave higher or lower is called oktavieren That should really be ovtaKIEREN... ;-) At least the English wikipedia page does not give a proper term for it I tend to call it octave displacement myself... Cheers, (ovta)Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
On 2/16/08 12:48 PM, Kurt Kroon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. ... Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes and -rests? Thanks! Kurtis ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hi Kurt, The only other term I've heard is octavization, which is as ugly-sounding as octavation. I prefer octave transposition, which describes exactly what is going on in your piece. Cheers, Ian Hulin Kurt Kroon wrote: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you even bother to name the process)? Since this will go into the glossary, please respond with the preferred term in any of these languages: Danish Dutch English Finnish French German Italian Spanish Swedish Thanks! Kurtis PS: Internally, LilyPond calls this octavation ... which I only included because I couldn't think of a better term. __ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
I agree with Ian: octave transposition. Thinking about it, the term octavation (and octavated) is, in fact, in my English vocabulary, but only for artificial harmonics at the octave (ie, those string harmonics where the diamond notehead appears exactly one octave above the capotasto / stopped note / fundamental / round notehead; so: octavated harmonics). But my teacher for these sorts of things was Italian ... and so I'm pretty sure I've got a stow-away from Italian lurking around in my English here. Yeah, I can't think of a single native use of the term octavation (or related) at all. Have to fall back on octave transposition here. On Feb 16, 2008 6:58 PM, Andrew Hawryluk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Grove Dictionary of Music gives no English term, only the Italian all'ottava or all'8va (meaning 'at the octave'). For comparison, the Finale 2006 user manual index lists the topic under 8va/8bv. The index entries for 15ma, Ottava, and Quindecima all say see 8va/8bv. Andrew On Feb 16, 2008 5:12 PM, Ian Hulin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kurt, The only other term I've heard is octavization, which is as ugly-sounding as octavation. I prefer octave transposition, which describes exactly what is going on in your piece. Cheers, Ian Hulin Kurt Kroon wrote: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for the actual _process of writing_ the passage in a different octave (if you even bother to name the process)? Since this will go into the glossary, please respond with the preferred term in any of these languages: Danish Dutch English Finnish French German Italian Spanish Swedish Thanks! Kurtis PS: Internally, LilyPond calls this octavation ... which I only included because I couldn't think of a better term. __ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Trevor Bača [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use?
Hello: The only term I've ever heard in english for this is octave displacement and its notation is 8va .. dotted line over the affected passage. I lieu of any other acceptable english terminology I'd go with Groves as it widely accepted as a standard English language reference work for music. I believe that Groves in right in deferring to the Italian since that is the usually accepted language for musical terminology. Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. Cheers David -- David Fedoruk B.Mus. UBC,1986 Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003 http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough for music Sergei Rachmaninov ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)
I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. ... Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes and -rests? In English, this would depend on which side of the Atlantic you live in. Here in North America the standard terminology would be 128th note/rest or 256th note or rest. I'm not sure what the British call it. It will be something like semi-demi-hemi-quaver I believe.. someone will correct me if I'm wrong (quite possible!) Most people in North America simply will not understand the British terms. Cheers, David -- David Fedoruk B.Mus. UBC,1986 Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003 http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough for music Sergei Rachmaninov ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
