Re: linuxvm.org down ? - Now it's up!

[Dennis Andrews]

linuxvm.org is back online.

Dennis Andrews
Velocity Software.

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Ethan Lanz]

Have you looked at http://x3270.bgp.nu/x3270-script.html#File-Transfer


On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 13:21 -0500, Erik N Johnson wrote:
> Ahh, it's a menu option.  In the file menu.
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So x3270 includes IND$FILE functionality, according to the website
> > daver++ pointed out.  Still looking on the x3270 page for the
> > documentation of this functionality.  May just download the code and
> > figure it out.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> And I certainly want to borrow code.  I don't want to re-invent the
> >> networking protocol if I don't have to.  The sooner I finish the
> >> sooner people can use it to solve real problems :-D
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM, McKown, John
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>  Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
>  Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
>  To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>  Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
> 
>  Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
>  terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
>  redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
>  It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
>  permissive non-copy-left license.
>  So here goes nothing :-D
> 
> >>>
> >>> Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
> >>> engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
> >>> ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
> >>> "borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> John McKown
> >>> Senior Systems Programmer
> >>> HealthMarkets
> >>> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> >>> Administrative Services Group
> >>> Information Technology
> >>>
> >>> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
> >>> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
> >>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> >>> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
> >>> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
> >>> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> >>> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
> >>> it.
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
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> >>>
> >>
> >
>
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Re: OSSEC NIDS

[Adam Thornton]

On Aug 8, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Dulce M Robles wrote:


Does anyone know if OSSEC on linux for sysym z is widely used?  Does
it
work well System z linux?


It works fine.

It's not in any distributor's default packaging, I think, but it does
pretty much what it says on the box.  I don't know how widely deployed
it is.

Adam

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

Does anybody require UTF-8 support?

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ahh, it's a menu option.  In the file menu.
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So x3270 includes IND$FILE functionality, according to the website
>> daver++ pointed out.  Still looking on the x3270 page for the
>> documentation of this functionality.  May just download the code and
>> figure it out.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> And I certainly want to borrow code.  I don't want to re-invent the
>>> networking protocol if I don't have to.  The sooner I finish the
>>> sooner people can use it to solve real problems :-D
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM, McKown, John
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
>
> Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
> terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
> redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
> It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
> permissive non-copy-left license.
> So here goes nothing :-D
>

 Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
 engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
 ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
 "borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.

 --
 John McKown
 Senior Systems Programmer
 HealthMarkets
 Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
 Administrative Services Group
 Information Technology

 The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
 and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
 not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
 reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
 strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
 offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
 sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
 it.

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>>>
>>
>

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Re: IND$FILE?

[Kim Goldenberg]

Erik N Johnson wrote:

So x3270 includes IND$FILE functionality, according to the website
daver++ pointed out.  Still looking on the x3270 page for the
documentation of this functionality.  May just download the code and
figure it out.


There is a FILE TRANSFER menu option on the File menu.

Kim

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OSSEC NIDS

[Dulce M Robles]

Does anyone know if OSSEC on linux for sysym z is widely used?  Does it
work well System z linux?

Thank you
Dulce Robles
-
Sent from my BlackBerry Handheld.

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

Ahh, it's a menu option.  In the file menu.

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So x3270 includes IND$FILE functionality, according to the website
> daver++ pointed out.  Still looking on the x3270 page for the
> documentation of this functionality.  May just download the code and
> figure it out.
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> And I certainly want to borrow code.  I don't want to re-invent the
>> networking protocol if I don't have to.  The sooner I finish the
>> sooner people can use it to solve real problems :-D
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM, McKown, John
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
 Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
 To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
 Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

 Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
 terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
 redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
 It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
 permissive non-copy-left license.
 So here goes nothing :-D

>>>
>>> Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
>>> engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
>>> ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
>>> "borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.
>>>
>>> --
>>> John McKown
>>> Senior Systems Programmer
>>> HealthMarkets
>>> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
>>> Administrative Services Group
>>> Information Technology
>>>
>>> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
>>> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
>>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>>> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
>>> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
>>> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
>>> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
>>> it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
>>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>>>
>>
>

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

So x3270 includes IND$FILE functionality, according to the website
daver++ pointed out.  Still looking on the x3270 page for the
documentation of this functionality.  May just download the code and
figure it out.

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And I certainly want to borrow code.  I don't want to re-invent the
> networking protocol if I don't have to.  The sooner I finish the
> sooner people can use it to solve real problems :-D
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM, McKown, John
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
>>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
>>>
>>> Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
>>> terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
>>> redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
>>> It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
>>> permissive non-copy-left license.
>>> So here goes nothing :-D
>>>
>>
>> Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
>> engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
>> ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
>> "borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.
>>
>> --
>> John McKown
>> Senior Systems Programmer
>> HealthMarkets
>> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
>> Administrative Services Group
>> Information Technology
>>
>> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
>> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
>> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
>> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>>
>

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

And I certainly want to borrow code.  I don't want to re-invent the
networking protocol if I don't have to.  The sooner I finish the
sooner people can use it to solve real problems :-D

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM, McKown, John
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
>>
>> Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
>> terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
>> redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
>> It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
>> permissive non-copy-left license.
>> So here goes nothing :-D
>>
>
> Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
> engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
> ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
> "borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.
>
> --
> John McKown
> Senior Systems Programmer
> HealthMarkets
> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> Administrative Services Group
> Information Technology
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
> it.
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
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>

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Re: linuxvm.org down ?

[Ivan Warren]

Barton Robinson wrote:

LinuxVM.ORG moved to our new z9, with the DNS moved about 3 days ago.
We did this while
Mark Post was away so as not to break anything he was working on.  But
our racf admin
didn't set up the new racf rules correctly.  we're moving the dns back
to the old address
now until our security person corrects this.


Ok.. so you're not out of commission ;)

Anyway, I was just trying to figure out how to submit a s390 linux patch..

I guess that, after all, I'll have to figure out git !

--Ivan

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:51 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
> 
> Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
> terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
> redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
> It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
> permissive non-copy-left license.
> So here goes nothing :-D
> 

Regardless of the license on x3270, you can look at the code to reverse
engineer / document the protocol. If you write your code "from the
ground up", then you can license it however you want. It's only if you
"borrow" code from x3270 that you need to worry about its license.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
it.  

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

Okay, I read the license for x3270, it's very short, if not too
terribly sweet.  It's basically the old school BSD license, use modify
redistribute at your discretion but retain the above copyright notice.
It means it isn't GPL compatible but it is totally workable under a
permissive non-copy-left license.
So here goes nothing :-D

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There's s3270 for 'scraping' which allows you to get the contents of a
> 3270 screen into a file.  From there we could easily use awk to disect
> a text file and get needed information.  Caveat: is x3270 really Free?
>  Oftentimes open source code includes inconvenient restrictions from
> commercial use.
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, McKown, John
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:11 PM
>>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
>>>
>>> Sounds like fun, do you have a pointer to some documentation
>>> for IND$FILE?
>>>
>>> Erik Johnson
>>
>> I don't know of any such documentation. I think that everybody other
>> than IBM has reverse engineered the protocol. The x3270 package
>> implements the "client", so I guess its code could be used to create a
>> document. If I could understand the x3270 code.
>>
>> --
>> John McKown
>> Senior Systems Programmer
>> HealthMarkets
>> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
>> Administrative Services Group
>> Information Technology
>>
>> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
>> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
>> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
>> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
>> it.
>>
>> --
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>> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>>
>

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Re: linuxvm.org down ?

[Barton Robinson]

LinuxVM.ORG moved to our new z9, with the DNS moved about 3 days ago. We did 
this while
Mark Post was away so as not to break anything he was working on.  But our racf 
admin
didn't set up the new racf rules correctly.  we're moving the dns back to the 
old address
now until our security person corrects this.




daver++ wrote:


From: Ivan Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hmmm...

Getting a 404 for (everything I tried) as far as http://linuxvm.org is
concerned..

Looks like a fairly new development.. I can remember having been there
in the last few days..



I started getting that yesterday afternoon as well.

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

There's s3270 for 'scraping' which allows you to get the contents of a
3270 screen into a file.  From there we could easily use awk to disect
a text file and get needed information.  Caveat: is x3270 really Free?
 Oftentimes open source code includes inconvenient restrictions from
commercial use.

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, McKown, John
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:11 PM
>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
>>
>> Sounds like fun, do you have a pointer to some documentation
>> for IND$FILE?
>>
>> Erik Johnson
>
> I don't know of any such documentation. I think that everybody other
> than IBM has reverse engineered the protocol. The x3270 package
> implements the "client", so I guess its code could be used to create a
> document. If I could understand the x3270 code.
>
> --
> John McKown
> Senior Systems Programmer
> HealthMarkets
> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> Administrative Services Group
> Information Technology
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
> it.
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
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Re: linuxvm.org down ?

[daver++]

> From: Ivan Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> Getting a 404 for (everything I tried) as far as http://linuxvm.org is
> concerned..
> 
> Looks like a fairly new development.. I can remember having been there
> in the last few days..

I started getting that yesterday afternoon as well.

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:11 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)
> 
> Sounds like fun, do you have a pointer to some documentation 
> for IND$FILE?
> 
> Erik Johnson

I don't know of any such documentation. I think that everybody other
than IBM has reverse engineered the protocol. The x3270 package
implements the "client", so I guess its code could be used to create a
document. If I could understand the x3270 code.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
it.  

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[daver++]

> From: Erik N Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sounds like fun, do you have a pointer to some documentation for IND$FILE?

Good starting point:
http://gsf-soft.com/Documents/IND$FILE.shtml

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[David Boyes]

> What say?

You could test the theory using Kermit, which already knows how to deal
with 3215 and 3270 consoles. C-Kermit certainly works fine on Linux, and
a lot of terminal emulators support it. 

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Re: IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[Erik N Johnson]

Sounds like fun, do you have a pointer to some documentation for IND$FILE?

Erik Johnson

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 12:06 PM, McKown, John
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just had one of my flashes of "insight" (or is that "insanity"?).
> Anyway, this whole thing about using the 3270 interface is for when
> TCPIP access is not possible for some reason. Many want to use the
> various "full screen" editors to fix some files. So, my insight is this:
> how difficult would it be to implement an IND$FILE file transfer program
> in z/Linux? I know that there are "clients" which run on Windows and
> MS-DOS. IND$FILE allows for file upload/download via the 3270 data
> stream. So, if we could write a "server" that would run on z/Linux and a
> "client" to run on our desktop, we could then "download" the file(s)
> that we need to edit; edit them on our desktop; then upload them back to
> z/Linux.
>
> What say?
>
> --
> John McKown
> Senior Systems Programmer
> HealthMarkets
> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> Administrative Services Group
> Information Technology
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
> and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
> strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal
> offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing
> it.
>
> --
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IND$FILE? (was: RE: 3270 console confusion)

[McKown, John]

I just had one of my flashes of "insight" (or is that "insanity"?).
Anyway, this whole thing about using the 3270 interface is for when
TCPIP access is not possible for some reason. Many want to use the
various "full screen" editors to fix some files. So, my insight is this:
how difficult would it be to implement an IND$FILE file transfer program
in z/Linux? I know that there are "clients" which run on Windows and
MS-DOS. IND$FILE allows for file upload/download via the 3270 data
stream. So, if we could write a "server" that would run on z/Linux and a
"client" to run on our desktop, we could then "download" the file(s)
that we need to edit; edit them on our desktop; then upload them back to
z/Linux.

What say?

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
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not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Gerald Schaefer]

Linux on 390 Port  wrote on 08-08-2008 16:59:05:

> Carsten,
> 
> > I am willing to guide you through the setup process.
> > In short, you'll have to do the following steps:
> > - use DERFSEG to define a dcss with one page "exclusive write" and the
> > rest "exclusive nonsaved" access mode
> Can you give one example of this command? Is it OK to do this step from
> MAINT? In Pieter's example, would this have to go above the 8GB line?

This would create such a segment, ranging from 256MB to 1792MB:
DEFSEG SWAPPING 1-1 EW 10001-6 EN

BTW, the first EW part is needed to store the Linux swap signature, which
should be saved permanently. The remaining EN part does not need to be 
saved
for a swap device, and it will load a lot faster than a regular DCSS.

Another note: Adding "dcssblk.segments=NAME" to your kernel parameter line
only makes sense if you have dcssblk compiled into the kernel. If not 
(e.g.
SLES10) you'd need to load the module with "modprobe dcssblk 
segments=NAME"
instead.


Mit freundlichem Gruß / Kind regards,

Gerald Schäfer

Linux on System z Development
IBM Systems &Technology Group, Systems Software Development / SW Linux für 
zSeries Entwicklung
---
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Schoenaicher Str. 220
71032 Boeblingen
Phone: +49-7031-16-2275
Fax: +49-7031-16-3456
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Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, 
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linuxvm.org down ?

[Ivan Warren]

Hmmm...

Getting a 404 for (everything I tried) as far as http://linuxvm.org is
concerned..

Looks like a fairly new development.. I can remember having been there
in the last few days..

--Ivan

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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Erik N Johnson]

There is a program called c3270.  It's a curses-based 3270 emulator.
I don't have a zLinux system to connect to, just MVS, so I can't test
it but it seems possible that curses applications such as vi or nano
would work.  Just a theory.  Sources for c3270 are available:

http://x3270.bgp.nu/download.html

There are a variety of tools here you may find useful, so you may want
to just grab the full suite.  It's quite small, <4MB iirc.

Erik Johnson

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Adam Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Erik N Johnson wrote:
>
>> Are people limited to 3270 hardware to solve this problem or could a
>> 3270 emulator provide an acceptable solution? Just curious.
>>
>
> We're talking about tn3270 to z/VM to get the system console.  At
> least I am.  I don't have access to a working actual 3270 terminal
> anymore.  At least not one that's hooked up to anything useful.
>
> Adam
>
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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Adam Thornton]

On Aug 8, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Erik N Johnson wrote:


Are people limited to 3270 hardware to solve this problem or could a
3270 emulator provide an acceptable solution? Just curious.



We're talking about tn3270 to z/VM to get the system console.  At
least I am.  I don't have access to a working actual 3270 terminal
anymore.  At least not one that's hooked up to anything useful.

Adam

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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Erik N Johnson]

Are people limited to 3270 hardware to solve this problem or could a
3270 emulator provide an acceptable solution? Just curious.

Erik Johnson

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Romanowski, John (OFT)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For "anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today?"
> try
> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
>
>
>>
> 
> This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
> otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
> received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send 
> it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
> attachments.  Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
> the e-mail from your system.
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
>> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Dave
>> Jones
>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 10:39 AM
>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>> Subject: Re: 3270 console confusion
>>
>> Hi, Robin.
>>
>> I would suggest that you go to the Linux source web site I mentioned
> below
>> (lxr.linux.no)
>> and do a search on "3270" and take a loom at the comments in the 3270
>> device driver source
>> code files. They may shed some more light on the subjectbut, of
>> course, once you get
>> the 3270 device driver built and configured properly, you will need
> some
>> sort of Linux
>> application to actually drive it. The only such application I know of
> is
>> (was?) NED, and
>> nobody can seem to find it anymore.
>>
>> BTW, is anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today? My
>> browser reports
>> back "Not found" when I attempt to go there..
>>
>>
>>
>> Robin Atwood wrote:
>> > On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:
>> >> Hi, Robin.
>> >>
>> >> I've taken a quick look at the 3270 documentation available here:
>> >> http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/s390/
>> >> and it too appears out of date. It mentions rebuilding the kernel
> with
>> >> both CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE options set to y. However,
> the
>> >> latest defconfig file does not list CONFIG_3270 and
> CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE
>> as
>> >> valid configuration options.
>> >>
>> >> Support for 3270 devices as a Linux console may not have been
> carried
>> >> forward to the newer kernels.
>> >
>> > I think it has but the configuration options have different names.
> From
>> > my .config file:
>> >
>> > #
>> > # S/390 character device drivers
>> > #
>> > CONFIG_TN3270=y
>> > CONFIG_TN3270_TTY=y
>> > # CONFIG_TN3270_FS is not set
>> > CONFIG_TN3270_CONSOLE=y
>> > CONFIG_TN3215=y
>> > CONFIG_TN3215_CONSOLE=y
>> > CONFIG_CCW_CONSOLE=y
>> > CONFIG_SCLP_TTY=y
>> > CONFIG_SCLP_CONSOLE=y
>> > CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_TTY=y
>> > CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_CONSOLE=y
>> >
>> > Chapter 19 in the Linux Device Driver manual (SC33-8289-02) has
>> information
>> > but is not clear on 3270 consoles. I am going to experiment.
>> >
>> > -Robin
>> > --
>> >
> --
>> > Robin Atwood.
>> >
>> > "Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
>> >  Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst"
>> >  from "Mandalay" by Rudyard Kipling
>> >
> --
>> >
>> >
> --
>> > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO
> LINUX-390 or
>> visit
>> > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>>
>> --
>> DJ
>>
>> V/Soft
>>z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training,
>>consulting, and software development
>> www.vsoft-software.com
>>
>> --
>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390
> or
>> visit
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>
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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Mark Wheeler]

>
> Considerations:
>
> 1- if the begin of dcss is lower than the size of the virtual machine,
you
> must open "a hole" in machine's memory to imbed it.
> Like it: For a machine with 256M (140 + 116), use this command in
> Profile.EXEC: DEF STORE CONFIG 0.140M 160M.116M
>

I have a REXX exec that runs from the PROFILE EXEC and properly redefines
storage to accomodate use of DCSS's for swapping. The name of the highest
DCSS is passed into the exec and its attributes are used to generate and
execute the appropriate DEFINE STORAGE command. I can post it if anyone is
interested.

Mark L. Wheeler
IT Infrastructure, 3M Center B224-4N-20, St Paul MN 55144
Tel:  (651) 733-4355, Fax:  (651) 736-7689
mlwheeler at mmm.com
--
"I have this theory that if one person can go out of their way to show
compassion then it will start a chain reaction of the same. People will
never know how far a little kindness can go." Rachel Joy Scott

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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Clovis Pereira]

Mike, I'm not sure if it is the same case, but Omegamon XE uses DCSS and
have some details to take into consideration.

The command for define the dcss is:
DEFSEG dcssname  
where:
-  = the range of pages that are to be saved. Here you
specify the starting page and the ending page.
-  = the type of virtual machine access permitted to pages in the
range.

Considerations:

1- if the begin of dcss is lower than the size of the virtual machine, you
must open "a hole" in machine's memory to imbed it.
Like it: For a machine with 256M (140 + 116), use this command in
Profile.EXEC: DEF STORE CONFIG 0.140M 160M.116M

2- if the dcss is greater, you must inform the kernel where is the end of
the memory.
If your guest storage is sufficiently low, your entire DCSS address range
might be above the guest storage. You can then modify the /etc/zipl.conf
file to make the DCSS accessible to the Linux guest. Perform these steps to
extend the Linux address range:
1. Add the following command to the [ipl] section of the parameters line in
the /etc/zipl.conf file:
mem=
where  is an address at or above the upper limit of the DCSS.

Please, take a look on manual GC32-1957-00 - OMEGAMON XE on z/VM and Linux,
Planning and Configuration Guide
Best regards,
__
Clovis Pereira
zVM & zOS Support -  SWS
Maintenance and Technical Support Services
MTS Brazil
phone: 55-11-2132-3399
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


   
 Michael MacIsaac  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 om>To
 Sent by: Linux on LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 
 390 Port   cc
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 IST.EDU>  Subject
   Re: swap to DCSS
   documentation/cookbook? 
 08/08/2008 11:59  
   
   
 Please respond to 
 Linux on 390 Port 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 IST.EDU>  
   
   




Carsten,

> I am willing to guide you through the setup process.
> In short, you'll have to do the following steps:
> - use DERFSEG to define a dcss with one page "exclusive write" and the
> rest "exclusive nonsaved" access mode
Can you give one example of this command? Is it OK to do this step from
MAINT? In Pieter's example, would this have to go above the 8GB line?

> We have'nt got a good documentation on the setup unfortunatly
I have the Virtualization Cookbooks R/W for a short while longer before
they go through the "ITSO publishing machine". I could throw a quick
example at the bottom of the "Miscellaneous Recipes" chapter. Doing so
might help the community - so more specific examples will be most helpful.
I have a 5.4 system to try it on.  Thanks.

"Mike MacIsaac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   (845) 433-7061

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<><><>

Re: 3270 console confusion

[Romanowski, John (OFT)]

For "anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today?"
try 
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/


> 

This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it 
to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
attachments.  Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
the e-mail from your system.


-Original Message-

> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dave
> Jones
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 10:39 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: 3270 console confusion
> 
> Hi, Robin.
> 
> I would suggest that you go to the Linux source web site I mentioned
below
> (lxr.linux.no)
> and do a search on "3270" and take a loom at the comments in the 3270
> device driver source
> code files. They may shed some more light on the subjectbut, of
> course, once you get
> the 3270 device driver built and configured properly, you will need
some
> sort of Linux
> application to actually drive it. The only such application I know of
is
> (was?) NED, and
> nobody can seem to find it anymore.
> 
> BTW, is anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today? My
> browser reports
> back "Not found" when I attempt to go there..
> 
> 
> 
> Robin Atwood wrote:
> > On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:
> >> Hi, Robin.
> >>
> >> I've taken a quick look at the 3270 documentation available here:
> >> http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/s390/
> >> and it too appears out of date. It mentions rebuilding the kernel
with
> >> both CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE options set to y. However,
the
> >> latest defconfig file does not list CONFIG_3270 and
CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE
> as
> >> valid configuration options.
> >>
> >> Support for 3270 devices as a Linux console may not have been
carried
> >> forward to the newer kernels.
> >
> > I think it has but the configuration options have different names.
From
> > my .config file:
> >
> > #
> > # S/390 character device drivers
> > #
> > CONFIG_TN3270=y
> > CONFIG_TN3270_TTY=y
> > # CONFIG_TN3270_FS is not set
> > CONFIG_TN3270_CONSOLE=y
> > CONFIG_TN3215=y
> > CONFIG_TN3215_CONSOLE=y
> > CONFIG_CCW_CONSOLE=y
> > CONFIG_SCLP_TTY=y
> > CONFIG_SCLP_CONSOLE=y
> > CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_TTY=y
> > CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_CONSOLE=y
> >
> > Chapter 19 in the Linux Device Driver manual (SC33-8289-02) has
> information
> > but is not clear on 3270 consoles. I am going to experiment.
> >
> > -Robin
> > --
> >
--
> > Robin Atwood.
> >
> > "Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
> >  Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst"
> >  from "Mandalay" by Rudyard Kipling
> >
--
> >
> >
--
> > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO
LINUX-390 or
> visit
> > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
> 
> --
> DJ
> 
> V/Soft
>z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training,
>consulting, and software development
> www.vsoft-software.com
> 
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Swap space in physical vs virtual servers

[Adam Thornton]

On Aug 8, 2008, at 9:54 AM, James Melin wrote:



I'll have 658 gigs of 10,000 RPM server drives in this thing, so
multiple swap volumes providing an aggregate 32-48 gig swap pool is
possible, I just
don't know that it is necessary. A lot of that depends of course on
the application(s) being run.  On a general rule though, what is
best? 1:1 always?
1.5:1 always? Something else? At what point does the general rule of
thumb I've been doing fall off the cliff?


I feel nervous going with less than 1:1 but maybe that's just because
I am a dinosaur.

Adam

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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Dave Jones]

Hi, Robin

Robin Atwood wrote:

On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:

The only such application I know of is (was?) NED, and
nobody can seem to find it anymore.


That was the plan!



Very interesting; please keep us posted as to what you discover. Where did you 
get your
copy of NED?


BTW, is anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today? My
browser reports back "Not found" when I attempt to go there..


Same here.

-Robin
--
--
Robin Atwood.

"Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
 Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst"
 from "Mandalay" by Rudyard Kipling
--

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--
DJ

V/Soft
  z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training,
  consulting, and software development
www.vsoft-software.com

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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Michael MacIsaac]

Carsten,

> I am willing to guide you through the setup process.
> In short, you'll have to do the following steps:
> - use DERFSEG to define a dcss with one page "exclusive write" and the
> rest "exclusive nonsaved" access mode
Can you give one example of this command? Is it OK to do this step from
MAINT? In Pieter's example, would this have to go above the 8GB line?

> We have'nt got a good documentation on the setup unfortunatly
I have the Virtualization Cookbooks R/W for a short while longer before
they go through the "ITSO publishing machine". I could throw a quick
example at the bottom of the "Miscellaneous Recipes" chapter. Doing so
might help the community - so more specific examples will be most helpful.
I have a 5.4 system to try it on.  Thanks.

"Mike MacIsaac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   (845) 433-7061

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Swap space in physical vs virtual servers

[James Melin]

Greetings all. I've a question, perhaps philosophical about how much backing 
store you put into a machine.

Looking at a situation where we're going to be (don't ask - We're sunsetting 
z-series here. The decision is not logical) moving WebSphere App Server
and MQ Series from z/VM to physical servers. One of these is going to have 32 
gigs of memory on it. On z/VM and in VMware linux guests, I've been
looking at 2-4 maybe six gigs of memory, so I've been doing 1:1/1.5:1 ratio of 
swap to memory. I have absoutely no idea how or where the cost/benefit
peak is on backing 32 gigs of reall with swap.

I'll have 658 gigs of 10,000 RPM server drives in this thing, so multiple swap 
volumes providing an aggregate 32-48 gig swap pool is possible, I just
don't know that it is necessary. A lot of that depends of course on the 
application(s) being run.  On a general rule though, what is best? 1:1 always?
1.5:1 always? Something else? At what point does the general rule of thumb I've 
been doing fall off the cliff?

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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Robin Atwood]

On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:
> The only such application I know of is (was?) NED, and
> nobody can seem to find it anymore.

That was the plan!

> BTW, is anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today? My
> browser reports back "Not found" when I attempt to go there..

Same here.

-Robin
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 Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst"
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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Dave Jones]

Hi, Robin.

I would suggest that you go to the Linux source web site I mentioned below 
(lxr.linux.no)
and do a search on "3270" and take a loom at the comments in the 3270 device 
driver source
code files. They may shed some more light on the subjectbut, of course, 
once you get
the 3270 device driver built and configured properly, you will need some sort 
of Linux
application to actually drive it. The only such application I know of is (was?) 
NED, and
nobody can seem to find it anymore.

BTW, is anyone else having problems reaching www.linuxvm.org today? My browser 
reports
back "Not found" when I attempt to go there..



Robin Atwood wrote:

On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:

Hi, Robin.

I've taken a quick look at the 3270 documentation available here:
http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/s390/
and it too appears out of date. It mentions rebuilding the kernel with
both CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE options set to y. However, the
latest defconfig file does not list CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE as
valid configuration options.

Support for 3270 devices as a Linux console may not have been carried
forward to the newer kernels.


I think it has but the configuration options have different names. From
my .config file:

#
# S/390 character device drivers
#
CONFIG_TN3270=y
CONFIG_TN3270_TTY=y
# CONFIG_TN3270_FS is not set
CONFIG_TN3270_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_TN3215=y
CONFIG_TN3215_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_CCW_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SCLP_TTY=y
CONFIG_SCLP_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_TTY=y
CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_CONSOLE=y

Chapter 19 in the Linux Device Driver manual (SC33-8289-02) has information
but is not clear on 3270 consoles. I am going to experiment.

-Robin
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  consulting, and software development
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Re: 3270 console confusion

[Robin Atwood]

On Friday 08 Aug 2008, Dave Jones wrote:
> Hi, Robin.
>
> I've taken a quick look at the 3270 documentation available here:
> http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/s390/
> and it too appears out of date. It mentions rebuilding the kernel with
> both CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE options set to y. However, the
> latest defconfig file does not list CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE as
> valid configuration options.
>
> Support for 3270 devices as a Linux console may not have been carried
> forward to the newer kernels.

I think it has but the configuration options have different names. From
my .config file:

#
# S/390 character device drivers
#
CONFIG_TN3270=y
CONFIG_TN3270_TTY=y
# CONFIG_TN3270_FS is not set
CONFIG_TN3270_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_TN3215=y
CONFIG_TN3215_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_CCW_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SCLP_TTY=y
CONFIG_SCLP_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_TTY=y
CONFIG_SCLP_VT220_CONSOLE=y

Chapter 19 in the Linux Device Driver manual (SC33-8289-02) has information
but is not clear on 3270 consoles. I am going to experiment.

-Robin
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RPL for SuSE 10

[Stahr, Lea]

On SuSE 8 I used RPL to do a text replacement when cloning Linux guests.
Is there a similar product on SuSE 10 or must I go find/install RPL
myself?

Lea Stahr
zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator
Navistar, Inc.
630-753-5445
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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3270 console confusion

[Dave Jones]

Hi, Robin.

I've taken a quick look at the 3270 documentation available here:
http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/s390/
and it too appears out of date. It mentions rebuilding the kernel with  both
CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE options set to y. However, the latest 
defconfig file
does not list CONFIG_3270 and CONFIG_3270_CONSOLE as valid configuration 
options.

Support for 3270 devices as a Linux console may not have been carried forward 
to the newer
kernels.


I have found various threads about using NED on a 3270 console to zLinux and I
thought this was a good idea. I read the 3270 HOWTO on linuxvm.org but it
seemed no longer relevant to recent kernels; I am running 2.6.26. I have no
tub3270 module so there is nothing under /proc/tty/drivers and so
config3270.sh just exits. I had a read of the device drivers manual but am
not sure what I need.

I have a 3270 defined at 001f which gives me:

# ll /sys/bus/ccw/drivers/3270
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root0 Aug  8 13:37
0.0.001f -> ../../../../devices/css0/0.0./0.0.001f
--w--- 1 root root 4096 Aug  8 13:37 bind
--w--- 1 root root 4096 Aug  8 13:21 uevent
--w--- 1 root root 4096 Aug  8 13:37 unbind

but there are no tty devices. What do I do next?

TIA
-Robin


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  consulting, and software development
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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Carsten Otte]

Pieter Harder wrote:

I am starting to think about the possibilities 2GB above the bar DCSS in z/VM 
5.4 will provide for replacing large Vdisk swap. But I can't find any usable 
documentation on how to do swap to DCSS. The basics are documented on dw and I 
can probably manage, but when anyone has been there and done that can you 
please post some pointers and save us all the trouble of finding out again. 
Performance information is quite welcome as well.

The dcssblk device driver is a much faster swap target then vdisk. We
have'nt got a good documentation on the setup unfortunatly, but I am
willing to guide you through the setup process. In short, you'll have
to do the following steps:
On _one_ privclass E guest do:
- use DERFSEG to define a dcss with one page "exclusive write" and the
rest "exclusive nonsaved" access mode
- define the guest storage larger then the dcss, then ipl CMS and save
the empty segment
- reduce the guest storage again, boot linux, load the dcss in the
dcssblk driver (should report EW/EN mixed mode segment in dmesg)
- do mkswap on the block device, and save the segment again via the
"save" attribute of the dcssblk device driver

On every guest do:
- add "dcssblk.segments=NAME" to your kernel parameter line to get the
block device active on startup, and add the swap target to /etc/fstab
like this:
/dev/dcssblk0 swapswappri=1   0 0
- do swapon -a, and verify that the swap is active in /proc/swaps

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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Pieter Harder]

> With DCSS, will it be first fit, or moving cursor allocation?  First fit is 
> optimal, vdisk is moving cursor.  DCSS
> should be paged out with the same rules as vdisk, but this needs to be 
> verified in real life.  The CPU savings are
> "obvious", but are we talking 1 percent of 1 percent of an IFL?  Swapping at 
> 1000 per second to vdisk used about 10% of > an 890 CPU for reference.  That 
> is a pretty sizable target on an 890, not so sizeable on a z10, and nobody 
> swaps at
> 1000 per second regularly.  most installations swap even across 100 servers a 
> total of less than 100 per second, with
> the average generally being less than 1.
> So if swap rate is high, then probably there is a configuration problem, and 
> if swapping is low, what is the gain?

I smell a re-validation of the claim "VDISK for Linux swap is the best 
solution" on Velocity's website coming up ;-)

Pieter


Brabant Water N.V.
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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Barton Robinson]

Up until 5.4, DCSS was not a serious solution as it was very limited - people 
tried it
because it was cool, but dot com was cool too.

The performance of vdisk is well understood, we know how to minimize it's 
impact with
multiple vdisks of smaller sizes, we know that it gets paged out when not 
referenced and
we know when it gets paged out.

With DCSS, will it be first fit, or moving cursor allocation?  First fit is 
optimal, vdisk
is moving cursor.  DCSS should be paged out with the same rules as vdisk, but 
this needs
to be verified in real life.  The CPU savings are "obvious", but are we talking 
1 percent
of 1 percent of an IFL?  Swapping at 1000 per second to vdisk used about 10% of 
an 890 CPU
for reference.  That is a pretty sizable target on an 890, not so sizeable on a 
z10, and
nobody swaps at 1000 per second regularly.  most installations swap even across 
100
servers a total of less than 100 per second, with the average generally being 
less than 1.
 So if swap rate is high, then probably there is a configuration problem, and 
if swapping
is low, what is the gain?



Pieter Harder wrote:


Hi list,

I am starting to think about the possibilities 2GB above the bar DCSS in z/VM 
5.4 will provide for replacing large Vdisk swap. But I can't find any usable 
documentation on how to do swap to DCSS. The basics are documented on dw and I 
can probably manage, but when anyone has been there and done that can you 
please post some pointers and save us all the trouble of finding out again. 
Performance information is quite welcome as well.

Best regards,
Pieter Harder

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel  +31-73-6837133 / +31-6-47272537

Brabant Water N.V.
Postbus 1068
5200 BC  's-Hertogenbosch
http://www.brabantwater.nl
Handelsregister: 16005077

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begin:vcard
fn:Barton Robinson
n:Robinson;Barton
adr;dom:;;PO 390640;Mountain View;CA;94039-0640
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Sr. Architect
tel;work:650-964-8867
note:If you can't measure it, I'm just not interested
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://velocitysoftware.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Mark Perry]

Pieter Harder wrote:

Why overkill? It is the setup that is decided on. Give production an absolute 
priority above everybody else, and let >> the rest contend in a free-for-all. 
Besides, if production does go long dormant it will lose it real pages. When it
becomes active again we don't want it to be held back by anything.

Hi Pieter,
absolute priority makes your SAP Guests compete with TCPIP and other
z/VM services that are already QUICKDSP. As your SAP Guests depend on
these z/VM Services to provide an efficient service your setup is not
optimal.


That is new to me. What z/VM services do Linux SAP guests depend on? Certainly 
not the TCPIP stack machine when the guest is connected to a vswitch. The 
controllers maybe, but under normal circumstances they are not terribly active 
as most vswitch work is done by CP. I can think of the MPROUTE server being 
affected, but then that one doesn't have a whole lot to do in an OSPF stub area 
with only a default route to the rest of the world.


Fair point Pieter,
if one thinks of a z/VM machine dedicated to serving only Linux Guests.

I have vague memories of our having run systems with all Linux Guests
using QUICKDSP and it simply became a mess. I guess if you have only one
Production Guest and that is your most important workload then its your
call. But the more Guests you have then you need to allow z/VM to handle
the (overcommitted) resources.

mark

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Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Pieter Harder]

>> Why overkill? It is the setup that is decided on. Give production an 
>> absolute priority above everybody else, and let >> the rest contend in a 
>> free-for-all. Besides, if production does go long dormant it will lose it 
>> real pages. When it
>> becomes active again we don't want it to be held back by anything.
>
> Hi Pieter,
> absolute priority makes your SAP Guests compete with TCPIP and other
> z/VM services that are already QUICKDSP. As your SAP Guests depend on
> these z/VM Services to provide an efficient service your setup is not
> optimal.

That is new to me. What z/VM services do Linux SAP guests depend on? Certainly 
not the TCPIP stack machine when the guest is connected to a vswitch. The 
controllers maybe, but under normal circumstances they are not terribly active 
as most vswitch work is done by CP. I can think of the MPROUTE server being 
affected, but then that one doesn't have a whole lot to do in an OSPF stub area 
with only a default route to the rest of the world.

Pieter

Brabant Water N.V.
Postbus 1068
5200 BC  's-Hertogenbosch
http://www.brabantwater.nl
Handelsregister: 16005077

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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Christian Borntraeger]

Am Freitag, 8. August 2008 schrieb Mark Perry:
> Pieter Harder wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I am starting to think about the possibilities 2GB above the bar DCSS in
z/VM 5.4 will provide for replacing large Vdisk swap. But I can't find any
usable documentation on how to do swap to DCSS. The basics are documented on
dw and I can probably manage, but when anyone has been there and done that
can you please post some pointers and save us all the trouble of finding out
again. Performance information is quite welcome as well.
> >
> Hi Pieter,
> DCSS is good for sharing code (or constant data) between Guests. Swap
> data is unique to only one Guest. What do you hope to gain over
> a/multiple VDISK - size? performance?

In theory swap over dcss can have lower overhead than vdisk, if z/VM has
enough memory to hold the dcss in main storage. For vdisks every I/O operatin
is an SIE intercept (either diag or channel program parsing). I/O to a fully
memory resident dcss I/O is memory access only and does not cause any sie
exit.

I have no idea about the performance, if z/VM has to do a lot of paging and
the dcss is not resident.

Christian

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Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Mark Perry]

Pieter Harder wrote:

I think the answer to the standard STORBUF: Q1=125% Q2=105% Q3=95% not causing me 
grief is that I run production in Q0 >> due to quick dispatch being set. 
Production on averages owns 25-30 percent of real pages and never goes below 15
percent, so it is really hard for Q3 machines to get up to that 95 percent.

QUICKDSP - well yes of course that exempts you from VM distach controls
all together. That is overkill.


Why overkill? It is the setup that is decided on. Give production an absolute 
priority above everybody else, and let the rest contend in a free-for-all. 
Besides, if production does go long dormant it will lose it real pages. When it 
becomes active again we don't want it to be held back by anything.


Hi Pieter,
absolute priority makes your SAP Guests compete with TCPIP and other
z/VM services that are already QUICKDSP. As your SAP Guests depend on
these z/VM Services to provide an efficient service your setup is not
optimal.

mark

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Re: swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Mark Perry]

Pieter Harder wrote:

Hi list,

I am starting to think about the possibilities 2GB above the bar DCSS in z/VM 
5.4 will provide for replacing large Vdisk swap. But I can't find any usable 
documentation on how to do swap to DCSS. The basics are documented on dw and I 
can probably manage, but when anyone has been there and done that can you 
please post some pointers and save us all the trouble of finding out again. 
Performance information is quite welcome as well.


Hi Pieter,
DCSS is good for sharing code (or constant data) between Guests. Swap
data is unique to only one Guest. What do you hope to gain over
a/multiple VDISK - size? performance?

mark

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Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Pieter Harder]

>> I think the answer to the standard STORBUF: Q1=125% Q2=105% Q3=95% not 
>> causing me grief is that I run production in Q0 >> due to quick dispatch 
>> being set. Production on averages owns 25-30 percent of real pages and never 
>> goes below 15
>> percent, so it is really hard for Q3 machines to get up to that 95 percent.
>
> QUICKDSP - well yes of course that exempts you from VM distach controls
> all together. That is overkill.

Why overkill? It is the setup that is decided on. Give production an absolute 
priority above everybody else, and let the rest contend in a free-for-all. 
Besides, if production does go long dormant it will lose it real pages. When it 
becomes active again we don't want it to be held back by anything.

Pieter

Brabant Water N.V.
Postbus 1068
5200 BC  's-Hertogenbosch
http://www.brabantwater.nl
Handelsregister: 16005077

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Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Mark Perry]

Pieter Harder wrote:

One more thing, the ABAP stacks go dormant when no users are working, but the 
dual stack never goes dormant. Rob vd Heij checked for me that is due to a 10 
millisec timer in Java that we can't get rid of due to SAP Java version 
requirements.


H'mm, I wonder if the new J9 JVM will help?


I think the answer to the standard STORBUF: Q1=125% Q2=105% Q3=95% not causing 
me grief is that I run production in Q0 due to quick dispatch being set. 
Production on averages owns 25-30 percent of real pages and never goes below 15 
percent, so it is really hard for Q3 machines to get up to that 95 percent.


QUICKDSP - well yes of course that exempts you from VM distach controls
all together. That is overkill.

mark

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swap to DCSS documentation/cookbook?

[Pieter Harder]

Hi list,

I am starting to think about the possibilities 2GB above the bar DCSS in z/VM 
5.4 will provide for replacing large Vdisk swap. But I can't find any usable 
documentation on how to do swap to DCSS. The basics are documented on dw and I 
can probably manage, but when anyone has been there and done that can you 
please post some pointers and save us all the trouble of finding out again. 
Performance information is quite welcome as well.

Best regards,
Pieter Harder

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel  +31-73-6837133 / +31-6-47272537

Brabant Water N.V.
Postbus 1068
5200 BC  's-Hertogenbosch
http://www.brabantwater.nl
Handelsregister: 16005077

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Re: Linux sles9 felt in coma

[Pieter Harder]

>Hi Peter,
>as you probably know, we run several z/VM systems with many SAP Linux
>Guests of about 8GB each, and STORBUF defaults always cause us to have
>Guests on the E lists.

Mine are 8 GB for production and 2 GB for DEV and QA ABAP only stacks, with 4 x 
2GB Vdisks for swap.

Only one dual stack for the Solution Manager system  that is 3GB with same swap 
config. But that one is rarely used and mostly inactive. We run portals on 
Intel.

One more thing, the ABAP stacks go dormant when no users are working, but the 
dual stack never goes dormant. Rob vd Heij checked for me that is due to a 10 
millisec timer in Java that we can't get rid of due to SAP Java version 
requirements.

I think the answer to the standard STORBUF: Q1=125% Q2=105% Q3=95% not causing 
me grief is that I run production in Q0 due to quick dispatch being set. 
Production on averages owns 25-30 percent of real pages and never goes below 15 
percent, so it is really hard for Q3 machines to get up to that 95 percent.

Pieter

Brabant Water N.V.
Postbus 1068
5200 BC  's-Hertogenbosch
http://www.brabantwater.nl
Handelsregister: 16005077

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