Re: [IFWP] vix
Well, I assume that you do whatever it is you do for some purpose, don't you? It's not just to amuse yourself, is it? So engaging in discussion once in a while with the beneficiaries of the service you provide, and not just with those who do it, seems to me to be a worthwhile idea. No business or service is ever very successful, or not for very long, if it ignores the clients, isn't that so? None of my clients has told me that they read ifwp. I see them each regularly and they have other ways to make their needs known to me. The other reason I don't do ifwp is that it's got some of the flaming psychotics who I enjoy lampooning, and my friends have told me that they it looks too much like shooting fish in a barrel and that they are bored by my antics.
Re: [IFWP] Vix on Multiple Roots
I wonder if you would be willing to comment on the question of multiple roots. It's an idea which has recently been attracting renewed vigor in these crowds, and its supporters are so energetic, I sometimes wonder whether some new sort of alternate root launch is imminent. Outspoken advocates of alternate and multiple roots on this list include (presuming I've been reading them correctly) Karl Auerbach, Richard Sexton, Jim Dixon, and Roeland Meyer, people whom I generally consider to be sober (well, mostly) and technically astute. I just wanted to add that while I advocate multiple root systems, I don't advocate fracturing the top level domains with varient versions. My canonical example is that when one looks up "freds.barbershop.xxx" one had better get vectored to Fred's no matter what root system they enter through. But I'd let that fracturing be prevented by the fact that nobody will use a root system that includes bad versions of TLDs. I find that preferable to having some sort of DNS overlord commanding consistency. The interesting twist is that there is nothing that prevents this from happening. Anybody with the gumption can easily set it up. The hard part is getting people to use it. My notes on this are in the second part of: http://www.cavebear.com/cavebear/grow/ --karl--
Re: [IFWP] vix
Paul A Vixie a écrit: None of my clients has told me that they read ifwp. I see them each regularly and they have other ways to make their needs known to me. Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client. The other reason I don't do ifwp is that it's got some of the flaming psychotics who I enjoy lampooning, and my friends have told me that they it looks too much like shooting fish in a barrel and that they are bored by my antics. Well, I hate to say this, but are you a member of the Poisson list? Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
At 05:29 PM 7/28/99 -0700, you wrote:
Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client.
Show me the money. ("I'm not in this for your revolution, man.")
Well, if you want us to chip in so we can pay you to post
your important announcements here I suppose we probably
could. How much were you thinking?
--
Richard Sexton | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dns.vrx.net/tech/rootzone
http://killifish.vrx.nethttp://www.mbz.orghttp://lists.aquaria.net
Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada, 70 72 280SE, 83 300SD +1 (613) 473-1719
Re: [IFWP] vix
Paul A Vixie wrote:
Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client.
Show me the money. ("I'm not in this for your revolution, man.")
That's very funny, Mr. Vixie, but I don't believe it. I'll bet you
aren't in this for the money. But, then, why would you do what the
big money guys want you to do?
Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org
Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
Michael and all,
I am not answering your question for Paul, but my guess is that
Paul believes, now anyway, that the big companies is where the
big money is. Am I close here Paul? ;) At any rate, I can't blame
Paul for making this decision for himself at this juncture in his
career
Michael Sondow wrote:
Paul A Vixie wrote:
Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client.
Show me the money. ("I'm not in this for your revolution, man.")
That's very funny, Mr. Vixie, but I don't believe it. I'll bet you
aren't in this for the money. But, then, why would you do what the
big money guys want you to do?
Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org
Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Contact Number: 972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
Re: [IFWP] vix William Walsh offering or suggesting a bribe berhaps?
William and all,
Shame on you WIlliam, suggesting that Paul would consider a bribe...
Tisk, Tisk!!!
William X. Walsh wrote:
Wednesday, July 28, 1999, 5:59:44 PM, Richard J. Sexton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 05:29 PM 7/28/99 -0700, you wrote:
Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client.
Show me the money. ("I'm not in this for your revolution, man.")
Well, if you want us to chip in so we can pay you to post
your important announcements here I suppose we probably
could. How much were you thinking?
How much for an entry in the root server he runs, which provides
services for millions of internet users? :)
--
William X. Walsh
General Manager, DSo Internet Services
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax:(209) 671-7934
The Law is not your mommy or daddy to go crying
to every time you have something to whimper about.
Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Contact Number: 972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
Re: [IFWP] vix
William X. Walsh a écrit: Well, if you want us to chip in so we can pay you to post your important announcements here I suppose we probably could. How much were you thinking? That message of Mr. Vixie's was addressed to me. You've scared him off, just when we were getting somewhere. How stupid can you be? Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
Mr. Vixie, everyone who has a domain name is your client.
Show me the money. ("I'm not in this for your revolution, man.")
That's very funny, Mr. Vixie, but I don't believe it. I'll bet you
aren't in this for the money. But, then, why would you do what the
big money guys want you to do?
the big money guys aren't my clients. i only take on clients who have
ethical rudders. and at least moderate intelligence. your assertion
as to who my clients are is completely unrelated to reality.
Re: [IFWP] vix
Jeff Williams wrote: I am not answering your question for Paul, You and William Walsh are irremediable morons. For the first time, I had engaged a root server operator in a serious discussion, and you have scared him off with your idiot postings. You two have destroyed the credibility of the IFWP. Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix William Walsh offering or suggesting a bribe berhaps?
are you folks sick of me yet? if so, you'll need to stop cc'ing me. Well, if you want us to chip in so we can pay you to post your important announcements here I suppose we probably could. How much were you thinking? like i said earlier, there's an ethical rudder consideration, and a moderate intelligence consideration, before i take on a client. How much for an entry in the root server he runs, which provides services for millions of internet users? :) my agreement with iana is to publish data, not edit it. and by asking that question, you failed both the ethical rudder and intelligence tests.
Re: [IFWP] vix
Michael, Get a grip on yourself! Sheeesh! Michael Sondow wrote: Jeff Williams wrote: I am not answering your question for Paul, You and William Walsh are irremediable morons. For the first time, I had engaged a root server operator in a serious discussion, and you have scared him off with your idiot postings. You two have destroyed the credibility of the IFWP. Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927 Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
Re: [IFWP] vix
Mr. Vixie- You have uncritically supported the ICANN conspiracy since it began merely because you believe it is John Postel's legacy. Well, Mr. Postel is dead, and Don Heath, Javier Sola, and David Maher have taken over John's NewCo. Only a fool would continue to refuse to listen to those who oppose them, many of whom post to the IFWP. It is not we who are in need of your messages, but you who are in need of ours. To: "Richard J. Sexton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: lists Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:42 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] no. ifwp is worthless to me. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Richard J. Sexton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: lists Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:12:05 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] (sent to the NANOG, IETF, and NAMEDROPPERS lists to catch everybody who cares.) Could you include [EMAIL PROTECTED] too please ? Thanks, -- Richard Sexton Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
RE: [IFWP] vix
Michael, snip taken over John's NewCo. Only a fool would continue to refuse to listen to those who oppose them, many of whom post to the IFWP. It is not we who are in need of your messages, but you who are in need of ours. Besides the fact that it is Jon, not John, and that everybody should be able to decide by him/herself whether he/she is in need to read something or not, my opinion is that Paul's reply should not be isolated from the context, which was a forwarded message by Richard that is probably not of great interest to the participants to this mailing list (in fact, the only comment I saw to the original post was from Karl, who would have read it in the IETF lists anyhow). I agree with Paul Vixie that a message should be distributed to the relevant discussion groups (which in the specific case did not include the IFWP), and not Urbi et Orbi. In fact you did not react to the original message, but just to the forwarding to the public list of a private message from Paul to Richard (BTW, I thought that it was not really compliant with Netiquette...) Regards Roberto
Re: [IFWP] vix
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Besides the fact that it is Jon, not John, and that everybody should be able to decide by him/herself whether he/she is in need to read something or not, my opinion is that Paul's reply should not be isolated from the context, which was a forwarded message by Richard that is probably not of great interest to the participants to this mailing list (in fact, the only comment I saw to the original post was from Karl, who would have read it in the IETF lists anyhow). Mr. Vixie, like all the root-server operators who slavishly follow the dictates of the ISOC/CORE controlled ICANN board, has stubbornly refused to have any communication whatsoever with the IFWP, the only assembly ever formed subsequent to the White Paper that can even pretend to be a community of Internet stakeholders. His reply to Richard Sexton was intended as an insult to this list, but it is unwittingly an admission by Mr. Vixie of his own narrow-mindedness, prejudice, and, in typical IETF fashion, authoritarian behavior. I agree with Paul Vixie that a message should be distributed to the relevant discussion groups (which in the specific case did not include the IFWP), and not Urbi et Orbi. Mr. Vixie and his like use discussion lists as a means of passing information between closed circles in order to avoid openness, transparency, and accountability. The creators of the phoney DNSO learned how to manipulate mailing lists from these people. In fact you did not react to the original message, but just to the forwarding to the public list of a private message from Paul to Richard (BTW, I thought that it was not really compliant with Netiquette...) It wasn't my breach of netiquette. I responded to Mr. Vixie's ridiculous and self-accusatory response. Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
And like I said, anyone who calls the people on this list "worthless", and who avoids having to face them, is a fool (or has something to hide). Paul A Vixie a écrit: like i said, worthless. Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:10:38 -0400 From: Michael Sondow [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IFWP] vix References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Vixie- You have uncritically supported the ICANN conspiracy since it began merely because you believe it is John Postel's legacy. Well, Mr. Postel is dead, and Don Heath, Javier Sola, and David Maher have taken over John's NewCo. Only a fool would continue to refuse to listen to those who oppose them, many of whom post to the IFWP. It is not we who are in need of your messages, but you who are in need of ours. To: "Richard J. Sexton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: lists Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:42 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] no. ifwp is worthless to me. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Richard J. Sexton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: lists Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:12:05 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] (sent to the NANOG, IETF, and NAMEDROPPERS lists to catch everybody who cares.) Could you include [EMAIL PROTECTED] too please ? Thanks, -- Richard Sexton Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
Paul A Vixie wrote: i didn't say the people were worthless. some of ifwp's subscribers are folks i'm proud to call my friends. but the list is "worthless to me." Sounds to me like you're trying to hide. Are you afraid to debate with people outside your small circle of Internet infrastructure insiders? Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
At 09:31 PM 7/27/99 -0400, you wrote: Paul A Vixie wrote: i didn't say the people were worthless. some of ifwp's subscribers are folks i'm proud to call my friends. but the list is "worthless to me." Sounds to me like you're trying to hide. Are you afraid to debate with people outside your small circle of Internet infrastructure insiders? You're wasting your time Michael. Paul has a very strong sense of whats right and wrong and would gladly waltz through the gates of hell doing something he thought was right even if nobody else on the planet thought that was the thing to do. This doesn't make Paul evil or stupid, he just had very strong ideas that are different from some peoples. I've danced this dance with Paul 15 years ago when Brian Reid made him the sysadmin for when was then DECWRL and Paul threatened to cut off certain newsgroups. "lo verily there are silly people here and this is serious stuff about computers. It stinketh and should go". Disagree. Paul usually has his hands on the throttle and brakes of important stuff. But somebody else always has the keys. -- Richard Sexton | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dns.vrx.net/tech/rootzone http://killifish.vrx.nethttp://www.mbz.orghttp://lists.aquaria.net Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada, 70 72 280SE, 83 300SD +1 (613) 473-1719
Re: [IFWP] vix
You wrote: actually i'm just trying to stay out of pointless nonterminal discussions. Well, I'm not familar with your code-language, I just speak plain English (and Spanish, French, Italian, and German), but I don't think a discussion of creating new A roots is pointless, given the present circumstances, do you? like this one, for example. That's rather childish, isn't it, Mr. Vixie? You don't really have anything to be afraid of from talking with people you don't know. We won't eat you. Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
Re: [IFWP] vix
Well, I'm not familar with your code-language, I just speak plain English (and Spanish, French, Italian, and German), but I don't think a discussion of creating new A roots is pointless, given the present circumstances, do you? discussion among the people whose job is to do it, is worthwhile to me. discussion by the people who think they should have been consulted is worthless to me. probably it is not worthless to you, or to the many (i'm sure) subscribers to the ifwp list. i'd have nothing to gain by attempting to stop any such discussion. but to me personally, it would not be worthwhile, and so i don't do it. That's rather childish, isn't it, Mr. Vixie? You don't really have anything to be afraid of from talking with people you don't know. We won't eat you. you are the only one who has mentioned fear.
Re: [IFWP] vix
Paul A Vixie wrote: discussion among the people whose job is to do it, is worthwhile to me. discussion by the people who think they should have been consulted is worthless to me. probably it is not worthless to you, or to the many (i'm sure) subscribers to the ifwp list. i'd have nothing to gain by attempting to stop any such discussion. but to me personally, it would not be worthwhile, and so i don't do it. Well, I assume that you do whatever it is you do for some purpose, don't you? It's not just to amuse yourself, is it? So engaging in discussion once in a while with the beneficiaries of the service you provide, and not just with those who do it, seems to me to be a worthwhile idea. No business or service is ever very successful, or not for very long, if it ignores the clients, isn't that so? Michael Sondow I.C.I.I.U. http://www.iciiu.org Tel. (212)846-7482Fax: (603)754-8927
