Re: [WSG] Gap in IE
No that didnt work I tried adding it to all the divs that have images as well and it didnt work either On 12/6/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Only guessing cos I can't see the images when viewing the pages locally but try adding display: block to the images in #logo. On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:14:28 +1000, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Gap in IE
hh thats the problem I now remember it now. I had the same problem with my last website Thanks for that John and others for their suggestions and im sorry for including attachments for this query, i wont do it again On 12/6/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You've set the height of #header, #text and #logo to 91px but you've also given #logo margin-top and padding-top of 3px which actually makes it 97px high. On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:51:34 +1000, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No that didnt work > I tried adding it to all the divs that have images as well and it didnt > work > either > > > > > On 12/6/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Only guessing cos I can't see the images when viewing the pages locally >> but try adding display: block to the images in #logo. >> >> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:14:28 +1000, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** -- Tyssen Design Web & print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] New UK rules
Not bad rules imho although im in not the uk, I think personally these rules are a good idea. Only problem is that it is a bit of information for the old footer. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/01/2007 10:02:04 pm >>> My service provider sent the following out in the latest newsletter. I was not aware of this, so in case any of you weren't aware either, I include it here: REGULATION ISSUE From today, companies in the UK must include certain information on their Web sites and in their e-mail footers or they will breach the Companies Act and risk a fine. The minimum information needed on any business site includes the name, geographic address and e-mail address of the business and the legal name of the organisation with which the customer is contracting. Also, if the business is a company, the registered office address and the registration number. If the business is a member of a trade or professional association, membership details, including any registration number, should be provided. If the business has a VAT number, it should be stated - even if the Web site is not being used for e-commerce transactions. Prices on the site must be clear and unambiguous and state whether they include tax and delivery costs. Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] display:none; property and screenreaders
IMHO the best solution would be not to use Flash as navigation and then the problem would be dissolved automatically :) >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/01/2007 7:22 pm >>> Ok, but what if... site has navigation built with Flash. As much as I know (read: think) screenreader can not read it, so it is not accessible... And in that case, we could offer a navigation that is not displayed on the site, but is readable from the code... does that make any sense? On 1/9/07, David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 09:30:46AM +0100, Mihael Zadravec wrote: > > >So, the best thing to use if we want not to display something, but > >still want it to visible to the screenreader, would be use of > negative > >margins? Those effect something? > > I'm yet to run into a situation where it would be useful to have > content presented only to screen reader users. > > The two places where content is often hidden are: > > * Image Replacement techniques ... but noone has managed to convince > me that removing content and adding a background image is better than > an img element with an alt attribute. > > * Skip links ... but these are useful to users of non-pointing devices > (who may be visual users), and small screen users (who are visual > users), not just screen reader users. Also, screen reader users may be > able to see the text (possibly not well) so having different content > coming from the speakers and screen could be less than helpful. > > If you take that view of those issues, then there isn't a lot that you > might want to hide from visual users. > > -- > David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- Ra*unalni*ke storitve Toasted Web Mihael Zadravec s.p. --- tel: 00386 51 808136 email in msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype kontakt: mihael_zadravec --- Toasted Web http://www.toastedweb.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] p tags in table?
A rather basic question.. If you have tabular information does it need to included within the paragraph tags? Thanks The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] my world, my country.. :(
The thing that gets me with this discussion is why create all these "features" to cover up the problem? If you created it in XHTML/ php etc and not flash, you would not have these problems and then you would not have to spend extra time fixing the problems that has been caused by using flash. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/01/2007 11:30:16 am >>> Christian Montoya wrote: > On 1/10/07, Rob O'Rourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hassan Schroeder wrote: >> > Steve Green wrote: >> > >> >> We do a lot of user testing with screen reader users,... >> >> >> > >> > >> >> Also Flash movies are made in layers. >> >> >> > >> > Have you tested any (non-timelined) Flex-based sites or apps? >> > >> > >> >> Just my two pence but I think what you really need to do is add an audio >> layer to that flash site. As an example one of the sites we host (its >> not at all accessible code-wise) has audio to say hello and indicate >> what you can do on a page. I think similar use of audio on that site to >> read it from the flash would be a nice touch. Then it'd be accessible to >> blind users who don't have a screenreader too (...they must exist) > > I see a lot of problems with that idea. For one thing, audio content > is a very heavy-handed way of working around the lack of a > screenreader, especially for those with dial-up. It's also incorrect > to assume that there are any blind people who can reach your website > but not have some tool for "reading" the screen, be that a > screenreader or braile display or w/e. Chances are if the user can > reach your site, then they must have something assisting them. Ha! - good point. I could say I was thinking of those who use zoom features but it'd be BS =P It's an interesting thing that a screen-reader or assistive device wouldn't take any extra audio source on a page into account, the methods for adding any audio are typically via css or flash aren't they? It'd be good if the screen reader manufacturers added some control over it when it does happen, seeing as it can have such a big impact on accessibility. > Finally, you are assuming that you can guess the best audio speed for > blind users. If you have ever seen a blind person using a > screenreader, you would know that many of them set the audio speed to > something much faster than the average person speaks. > An audio description of a page would be much slower than most blind > people > would have it read to them by a screenreader. > > Audio descriptions are good when used to make captchas more > accessible, but providing them for entire web pages just doesn't sound > like the best solution. Well I didn't mean the ENTIRE web page, an introduction perhaps. Point is I wasn't thinking, what I suggested was kinda like getting flash to do a crap job of being a screen-reader... anyway. Back on the topic of Mihael's website I think it's all been said, he's got his work cut out! Cheers, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] query about h1 trend
ok just browsing some websites during lunch break and i came across this: http://tatteredfly.com and in looking at the code, ive noticed that the header image is a background of the div but in the code they have a 'heading one' with the title. Is this hidden and is this used for SEO reasons?? Tattered Fly Thanks The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] query about h1 trend
Yeah I thought it was but I thought I will just make sure. Thanks, now I must re-dig them up- lol >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/01/2007 1:17:14 pm >>> It's an image replacement technique. There's been quite a bit of discussion about different methods of this just the last day or two. On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:50:10 +1000, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok just browsing some websites during lunch break and i came across this: > http://tatteredfly.com > > and in looking at the code, ive noticed that the header image is a > background of the div but in the code they have a 'heading one' with the > title. Is this hidden and is this used for SEO reasons?? > > > > > Tattered Fly > > > > Thanks > > > > The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of > Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound > transmission. > > This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this > email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. > > Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au > Phone: +61 08 9264 > > * > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > -- Tyssen Design Web & print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] AIMIA finalists
Asfar as I know accessibility compliance is a requirement for every new govt website project that is out for tender. Yes that is right. I am involved at the moment of a redesign of a gov website and we have to create the website to cover level 3 standards... The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
So would making web designers get a "certificate" of some kind fix this problem?? The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
I agree w3c and these other groups are not going to acheive it on their own I also think schools are an area that needs a shake up. at my uni they were still teaching inline style sheets and tablular layout in first and second year >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/01/2007 9:31 am >>> On 25/01/07, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So would making web designers get a "certificate" of some kind fix this > problem?? > > Not if it existed out there all on its own. I think for it to have any real effect, it would have to be backed by some sort of governing body and probably have some sort of legal standing as well. Medical practitioners must be certified and registered, or they can't legally practise medicine (in a lot of countries, anyway). Unless you did something similar for web developers, I really don't see how it would take. The problem isn't just coming up with an exam and a certificate. The problem is you have to have businesses believing that it is a MUCH better idea to hire somebody with that certificate than someone without, even if that someone else is charging half the price. Otherwise, the bottom line will win out every time. That's my take on the matter, anyway ~Seona. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
The universitys and tafes are usually taught by lecturers who have no formal understanding or knowledge themselves about web standards etc. It also is hard for them to change the content of their units as they usually get revised every 5 odd years, also the lecturers are not paid for study and revising the units, they only get paid for class time. So why should they do extra unpaid work for ungrateful students??? btw incase your wondering im not a lecturer - lol... I have raised this issue with my previous lecturers and they informed me of these government standards on lecturers >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/01/2007 10:02:12 am >>> Doesn't the ACS (In Australia) claim to be our peek standards body? (Also assuming that Web Dev comes under the "Computing" banner). Wouldn't they (or somebody like them) be the ones to issue a certificate? (One look at their web site will tell you how seriously they take web standards.) What about all the Uni's and various training centres offering certificates in one thing or another. But then how many web developers have ever actually "studied" web development specifically? It's something most people learn on the job. As long as there is no accountability in the industry, we can cry all we like about certification and standards, but the "tag soup+tables shop"s, as Ben said, will always underbid us, and get the jobs. They just don't care, and there's no reason for them too. They aren't accountable. Lucien. On 25/1/07 11:31 AM, "Seona Bellamy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 25/01/07, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> So would making web designers get a "certificate" of some kind fix this >> problem?? >> >> > Not if it existed out there all on its own. I think for it to have any real > effect, it would have to be backed by some sort of governing body and > probably have some sort of legal standing as well. Medical practitioners > must be certified and registered, or they can't legally practise medicine > (in a lot of countries, anyway). Unless you did something similar for web > developers, I really don't see how it would take. > > The problem isn't just coming up with an exam and a certificate. The problem > is you have to have businesses believing that it is a MUCH better idea to > hire somebody with that certificate than someone without, even if that > someone else is charging half the price. Otherwise, the bottom line will win > out every time. > > That's my take on the matter, anyway > > > ~Seona. > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** -- Lucien Stals Web Developer Academic Development and Support Phone +61 3 9214 4474 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Education is only the beginning. Let's get on with it. Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above messag
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
I was enjoying this little discussion so i decided to put together some of our points and views in my blog http://germworks.net/blog/2007/01/26/attention-web-lecturers im updating it at the moment so please bear with any little problems. On 1/25/07, Lucien Stals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a lecturer turned practitioner, I can completely support Jermayns' comments. One of the hardest things in teaching web development is finding decent text books. By the time most get into print, they are already 2 years out of date. And few come close to standards based development. I'm sure there are more than a few texts still in circulation which heartily advocate the FONT tag. If academics could be helped to understand, or pointed at good resources, as Ben suggests, this would go a long way towards helping the next generation of developers do the right thing. It's all about education. Lucien. On 25/1/07 12:50 PM, "Ben Buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I also think schools are an area that needs a shake up. at my uni they were >> still teaching inline style sheets and tablular layout in first and second >> year > > I think this is a key issue for the industry. Realistically we're not > going to eradicate non-standards shops, nor are we about to get > clients to suddenly recognise certification etc. > > What we can do is focus on winning over lecturers - probably by > offering to help them! There are precious few standards-based beginner > tutorials out there. I regularly see threads asking for them, but > can't recall a really good one to send... although I think someone was > writing one? > > Methodology and habit start forming at university - if we can catch > incoming developers at that level, there'll be a very positive flow-on > effect. > > A big part of it would be to stop people treating web as an add-on to > programming courses (literally covered in a lecture or two); or > treated as part of art/multimedia courses (which often means being > taught to create flash). > > It needs to be taught as a serious discipline. I don't see why you > couldn't teach students the basics in a semester. Get the foundations > in - semantics, structure, basic accessibility and usability, XHTML, > basic CSS. Then have further units on advanced layout, progressive > enhancement and so on. > > cheers, > > Ben -- Lucien Stals Web Developer Academic Development and Support Phone +61 3 9214 4474 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Education is only the beginning. Let's get on with it. Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
No need to apologise mate. I understand why you get angry as myself I agree that people should not make excusses for On 1/26/07, Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Russ, the group and teachers, it was a knee jerk mental response to make that unfair statement about teachers generally. I did not stop to think that there are great teachers on this group who can "do". Sorry. I get frustrated when people make excuses for not Validating when they ignore professional standards or the Trade Practices Act even. Perhaps I raise my voice too often as I feel none is listening. I am more inclined to political action than whispering. Sorry group I will tone my enthusiasm down or express myself more eloquently. Tim > > The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
OK so how do we help the lecturers??? Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/01/2007 10:02:12 am >>> > Doesn't the ACS (In Australia) claim to be our peek standards body? (Also > assuming that Web Dev comes under the "Computing" banner). Wouldn't they (or > somebody like them) be the ones to issue a certificate? (One look at their > web site will tell you how seriously they take web standards.) The attitude seems to be that web development isn't real IT. The funny thing is that people in the webby area also seem to feel this way. I brought this up on another list and quite a few were adamant that an IT professional was one that hooked up networks. To me, an IT person is someone who can work with either information or computer systems, from either the technical or human standpoint. That is probably the biggest problem that needs to be solved first and before we try to teach the next generation of devolpers. The problem I see with this arguement is that I do not get 'myself off' by the latest 'geeky' talk like most IT people, I just love coding web pages and im sure majority or some of the developers are the same. Yes we are IT but do we behave and act like IT??? (maybe this is a new arguement/ debate) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Are these free??? and even i they are, would lectures go to them?? On 1/29/07, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jermayn Parker wrote: > OK so how do we help the lecturers??? It's possibly at this point that it's worth mentioning the WaSP Education Task Force (EduTF) http://webstandards.org/action/edutf P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
I think this is the only way it is going to happen if you actually get lecturers willing in their own time to learn and implement the standards into the courses. From my experience majority of the lecturers ive meet would not do that! On 1/29/07, Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 1/29/07, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK so how do we help the lecturers??? > Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would > not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? Port80/AWIA (http://www.port80.asn.au) is speaking with two TAFEs in Perth about bringing the skills of their lecturers up to date - recommendations for professional development and mentoring are two things that have been suggested. It's early days yet, but I think it's a great example of what can be done when organisations actually sit down and talk to each other, and what we do will hopefully become a model and case study for other states in Australia. We have a TAFE lecturer who is heavily involved with course development on the committee and she's leading the charge. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Its good to see it happening in WA, seeing we are the best state and now we can set standards for the whole world :P How about the WAs unis?? On 1/29/07, Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I know it's not happening everywhere, but my example shows a small area where things are being improved. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] div out of alignment
Hi all I know this is a fairly simple problem but after spending a few days designing it and nutting out all these problems, im kinder over it (if you kow what i mean) In ie the divs which hold the main content go below the side menu divs if the window size isnt big enough. I think the problem is the space or the way they are floated but im not sure http://www.germworks.net Thanks for checking and help btw if anyone has any problems with design, accesability issues etc can you also please point them out Thanks again The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] div out of alignment
Hi yes that worked, however I moved it down to 36% or so I then tested it again in IE and it doesnt break until the window is 750 or so pixels. Is that ok?? >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 31/01/2007 1:29 pm >>> If you reduce the width of the window in FF you get the right column overlapping the left which suggests the maths on the columns doesn't add up which on quick look seems a bit odd because they seem to add up to less than 100%. I changed #sidebar to 39% instead of 40% though and the right column moved back into the correct position, so it might have a similar effect in IE. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:39:40 +1000, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all > > I know this is a fairly simple problem but after spending a few days > designing it and nutting out all these problems, im kinder over it (if > you kow what i mean) > > In ie the divs which hold the main content go below the side menu divs > if the window size isnt big enough. > > I think the problem is the space or the way they are floated but im not > sure > > http://www.germworks.net > > Thanks for checking and help > > btw if anyone has any problems with design, accesability issues etc can > you also please point them out > > Thanks again > > > > The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of > Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound > transmission. > > This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this > email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. > > Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au > Phone: +61 08 9264 > > * > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > -- Tyssen Design Web & print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Wikiasari
http://germworks.net/blog/2007/02/01/wikiasari has anyone looked into this much?? I only myself heard of it today and did a quick read, test and write up... The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Wikiasari
Yeah the search box is kinder hidden and not noticeable (btw its on the left), guess we are used to it smack bang in our face like google... >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1/02/2007 1:58 pm >>> Quoth Jermayn Parker at 02/01/07 16:14... > http://germworks.net/blog/2007/02/01/wikiasari > > has anyone looked into this much?? I only myself heard of it today and did a > quick read, test and write up... Interesting. After a couple of minutes of looking, I couldn't work out how to do a search! I might look again later. M -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy & Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
You look at people like Piacoso and his art made no sense and it was popular and so are these types of website, make no sense but are popular (myspace another example) >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/02/2007 9:56:49 am >>> Why would you want to create such an image gallery for navigation, no rollover titles, no idea where each link goes, uses a lot of images for a text based navigation system, maybe it is art but not much else. Tim On 02/02/2007, at 6:00 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On 2/1/07, Milosz A. Lodowski - New Media Designer >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I'd like to present you the list of best100 e-motional designs, >>> we're waiting for your opinions about our idea and choice ;) >>> >>> http://www.e-motionaldesign.com/blog/100-the-best-e-motional- >>> websites-part-1-of-4/ >> >> So, a bunch of sites that are pure "art" and completely inaccessible / >> hardly usable... what is your point? >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Christian Montoya >> christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com >> >> > At the bottom of this site: http://www.mandchou.com/ - there is an > image gallery in Flash used for navigation. Can someone point me to a > tutorial for creating this? > > -- > Thanks! > > Jeff > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
some of it makes sense (like self portraits etc) but a lot of his sculptures and other stuff doesnt, it went agaisnt the grain of normal painting etc of his era >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/02/2007 10:14:18 am >>> On 2/1/07, Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You look at people like Piacoso and his art made no sense and it was popular > and so are these types of website, make no sense but are popular (myspace > another example) I have no idea what you are talking about. Picasso's art makes total sense to me. Unfortunately it's not very compatible with screen readers. -- The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
It is not that good... Yes it may load quick but it is a useless uninformative site and apart from the home page it is ugly and bare as naked bones. Lets hope that the designer does not win any awards On 2/3/07, Matthew Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> A great example of Faust in practice: >> http://www.ivyhotel.com/ Bravo! I took a quick (and only quick) look in Lynx and got a meaningful site. I think that this could be a first. And also a last, as this example neatly takes away any excuse for a primarily Flash-based site to be inaccessible. I seem to recall this all started talking about awards - whoever did the Ivy Hotel design should certainly be in the running for one. Cheers M (Still can't get over it working well in Lynx.) -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy & Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Your explanation makes sense but as a designer who also dabbles in seo, would not it be your right to 'suggest' and sell the importance of descent content?? The internet is a place were you find useful or useless information. It is not primely a gallery of art like this website. also you look at the websites home page and your interested so while it may entice the viewers pass the home page, they will not stay beyond that as the home page hides the problems of the whole site. I think as a designer, it is your responsibility to have important content as well as it being accessible, usable and pretty... On 2/6/07, Barney Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jermayn Parker wrote: > It is not that good... > Yes it may load quick but it is a useless uninformative site and apart > from the home page it is ugly and bare as naked bones. > > Lets hope that the designer does not win any awards That's all down to inevitable site content though. The designer has done the most he or she could, barring turning down the job. I am involved in a long-term project to design a site with accessibility features similar to this - it is a site primarily concerned with presenting music and graphic art, in key instances using flash and javascript-assisted stylistic presentation, and as such its content is mainly of a hi-tech, sensory and artistic nature. It just so happens that there is a lot of very wordy prose around the site, so perhaps it might meet your standards, but there are very large portions of the site whose raison d'etre is a method of accessing intrinsically audio and visual content that by its nature, cannot have a truly worthwhile text substitute. I am not going to tell the artists to create accessible 'alternatives' to their creations, neither am I going to tell them that their work has no place on the internet except as trivial extra features - I'm proud to be able to help them prove that the internet is exactly the place for them to do whatever they want, all the while abiding by intelligent accessibility standards. The question we should be asking ourselves is how web-based content whose ultimate purpose is to present artistic (and this includes - crucially - corporate art) media should be made to be as accessible as possible, not 'if'. But to say that such sites cannot be well designed is tragic wishful thinking. Remember design is always a means to an end. The Ivy Hotel has done a great job as far as design is concerned. Its content is indeed flimsy in concrete terms, and as an informative document it is very weak - but the internet shouldn't be limited to encyclopedias, reference manuals and opinion columns. Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Photos of what the rooms look like would be one obvious example of what would make this website a bit more credible. On 2/6/07, Hassan Schroeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jermayn Parker wrote: > Your explanation makes sense but as a designer who also dabbles in seo, > would not it be your right to 'suggest' and sell the importance of > descent content?? The internet is a place were you find useful or > useless information. It is not primely a gallery of art like this website. Just out of curiousity, exactly what "content" do you find missing from this site? What questions do you have about this hotel that remain unanswered? -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Ok I guess your having a dig at me but I will humour you If your in the hotel business and advertising for a brand new hotel, you need to sell your business and entice people away from their current 'fav' hotels to yours. Do you think not having any photos and just a nice flashy home page will do that? I know for a FACT that it will not. I am currently looking at hotels etc for my honeymoon and you know what me and my fiance look at??? Yes we look at photos of the hotel, what it and the rooms looks like. On 2/6/07, Hassan Schroeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jermayn Parker wrote: > Photos of what the rooms look like would be one obvious example of what > would make this website a bit more credible. Wow. Lack of room photos equates to: > a useless uninformative site and apart from the home page it is > ugly and bare as naked bones. :: not to mention not "credible"??? Wow. Interesting perspective. -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Well, that's nice. So, I'm curious -- the site has both a photo (jpeg) of the hotel exterior and a (Flash-embedded) image of one of the rooms, so what's the problem? So one flash embedded image and a photo of the hotel exterior is going to give you a good feel about what the hotel is all about??? I do not think so mate. Most hotel websites have a few photos for each different hotel room (penthouse, budget etc) and also photos of the hotel area (reception, restaurant, pool, garden etc) I suggest you to take 5 minutes out of having a go at my emails and go and find some hotel websites and I bet majority of them have more than two photos on their whole website. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to mark up my dvd list?
Hi Cannot really add any more to the discussion rather than I personally use a table for my collection of Phantom comics that I have listed on one of my websites. Jermayn >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/02/2007 12:58:43 am >>> Thank you for the suggestion, I really appreciate it :) I'm somewhat torn between the two (dl vs. table). I can see the logic behind the dl, but I guess it's tabular data as well as a list. Can someone tip the balance here? Kind regards Morten The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
Using firefox at work I do not get that warning message but just a site with the navigation out of line etc It does not seem like its the only SA gov website that lacks a bit. Recently I did a test on the tourism sites of the states of Australia and SA came up the worst then as well http://germworks.net/blog/2007/01/24/which-state-would-you-visit >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/02/2007 5:50:35 pm >>> Hi All Wondering if there are any SA Government folks here (or anyone else) who would like to comment on this beautiful welcome to the State Library site; for a moment, I thought I'd hit a test site or something. The offending site is at: http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ I have never seen anything quite like this before - and hope I don't again: "Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination The Browser and/or Operating System you are using has not been tested in this site. You may still enter the site by clicking on one of the 'Enter' links below. Alternatively you can download a known browser from the browser vendor links below. If you wish to continue into the site regardless, please select a version from the choices below * Enter the text only version - should work in most browsers that support javascript (this is not a html-only version). * Enter the full graphic version (internet explorer compatibility mode). * Enter the full graphic version (mozilla compatibility mode). Compliant browsers can be found at the following links: Microsoft Internet Explorer Netscape Navigator Please contact us if you require further information or technical assistance: Email: " ...visited with Firefox 2.0, Linux. -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy & Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] New nineMSN website does not validate!
viewed any random page and I came to this http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=225480 this is almost impossible to view and read on firefox >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/02/2007 2:01:07 pm >>> [Now that I have your attention] Ninemsn have a new website, currently in beta, demo it here: http://beta.ninemsn.com.au/ I like it, big improvement. You have come a long way nineMSN - congrats to design/development team. The positives: - easy on the eye, with a focus on information rather than advertising - good information architecture - navigation menu as lists - good cross browser capability - nice use of AJAX throughout (though nothing appears to have been done in terms of focussing on the dynamic content after it is rendered leaving screen readers unaware of what has happened - tested with browse mode off in window-eyes) - use of access keys (albeit only 2 instances) Not so positive: - i'd like a link to their rss feeds from the homepage - top level navigation options (lifestyle, entertainment) do not link anywhere with Javascript off - this is a pity since I am often on my mobile browsing news sites and having js turned on isn't always my preferred mode. Funny that they have not at least placed a default href in the navigation for these menu options - they have elsewhere, for example in 'Your Guide' section on the RHS all link out to relevant sites with Javascript off - inline styling - empty alt tags - popups (target=X) Other: - minimum browser width of 1024 (SMH, News and now nineMSN. Crikey.com.au are running min width 800 :-) Anyone else want to share their views with regards to the new nineMSN website (currently in beta) Kind regards, Brad *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site Check - amplify.com.au
I agree... I like the simple design but the menu looks too un-important imho, it looks like it has been added on as an after thought and hence sticks out a bit and doesnt seem to gel with the overall design Apart from the menu, the rest looks good. One side note though: The logo seems to be cut off on the right hand side, the Y on Amplify is not complete (using Firefox 2.0) On 2/12/07, Samuel Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I like it, I don't like the plus minus concept on the navigation though, it implies you can close/open multiple navigation options at once (like any of those tree lists can) which is not needed in a navigation. Instead of the plus minus I'd use a concept of bullet point and highlighted bullet point. -Original Message- *From:* listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Swabey *Sent:* Monday, 12 February 2007 9:33 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] Site Check - amplify.com.au Hi all We have just completed a redesign/redevelopment of the www.amplify.com.auwebsite, and would appreciate any feedback, especially from Mac users. Many thanks -- Scott Swabey www.lafinboy.com www.thought-after.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ATO's (lack of) standards awareness
Its probably due to the fact that their software is IE based or old enough that it has been made to suit Mozilla. I have the same problem at work were we use this software called "foxpro" and it only works on IE and its an IBM product On 2/12/07, Vicki Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From the Australian Tax Office page I landed on from a Google search on applying for a Tax File Number online: http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/38760.htm [quote] Your browser must be either: ∙ Microsoft Internet Explorer version 5.5 or later, or ∙ Netscape Navigator/Communicator version 6.0 or later. Please note that Mozilla is only able to be used if certain system requirements are met. However, Mozilla is an open source application and the chance of it being supported is unlikely. [end quote] I almost can't believe it. I will be writing to them. -- Vicki Stanton DistinctiveWeb Web: http://www.distinctiveweb.com.au Blog: http://www.unheardword.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ATO's (lack of) standards awareness
Really I hope you do not take offense but I really do not like it one little bit. I got told it was an IBM product so im sorry :) On 2/12/07, Chris Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ummm I wrote (a good part of) FoxPro. It's not an IBM product, it's a Microsoft product. That might explain why it excels in IE... ------ *From: *Jermayn Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Subject: *Re: [WSG] ATO's (lack of) standards awareness I have the same problem at work were we use this software called "foxpro" and it only works on IE and its an IBM product *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] RE: OT? - spam in forms: use beyesian filters!
I myself had to install an anti-spam for my blog ( http://www.germworks.net/blog) as I got to spending10 minutes per day on deleting spam, im trying this one at the moment. http://www.theblog.ca/?p=21 -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com http://www.germworks.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
I can see black hr on my firefox browser >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19/02/2007 2:44:46 pm >>> after following several threads, i have converted my site to html 4.01. what i want to do is section the parts of my page with hrs. i can't figure out why the styling of the hr does not work in ff or opera. currently i am using borders on divs to achieve this effect, but to my understanding the hr would be semantically correct to separate the page into sections rather than use borders on divs as presentation. the last two hrs on the test page separate a side note from the rest of the content. i guess i could live with the presentational effect of the border that is currently being used at the top of the page. i have not removed the borders from the css, but you can see the faint line of the hr and its initial placement. what say you of my reasoning and what would be the best practice; and if it's for the hr, how do i make it black? http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/alaskan-dream.html http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/css/kddindipix.css dwain -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] layout - choices?
One I remember is the discussion about a persons dvd list. I remember because I personally use a table for my Phantom comic collection, so much easier than using anything else... >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23/02/2007 2:05:59 am >>> "Could you elaborate on the misuse of s?" I can't remember any specific instances but over the last year on this list there have been numerous discussions where people were trying to shoehorn tabular data into definition lists when they clearly should have been using tables. Nick has obviously noticed the same trend. I don't have time to look them up but I'll let you know if I remember any. I'll certainly shout the next time someone does it! Steve -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barney Carroll Sent: 22 February 2007 16:24 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] layout - choices? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I would disagree with the statement "It is all semantics, and will be > seen by most designers as fundamentally incorrect and misleading". I > suspect the actual figure would be nearer 0.1% of designers, although > most on this list would likely agree with the statement. > > Steve Steve, you're probably a bit nearer the mark on that one. I was talking within the context of markup nerd lists (which I occasionally forget are not all that indicative of the real world). Could you elaborate on the misuse of s? Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
