Re: [WSG] layout - choices?
One of the (many) things I wish for is a grid tag. Something along the lines of the following (made up as I go along, so don't nitpick too much :-)): grid gridcellcontent/gridcell gridcelldifferent content/gridcell /grid This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way. ... (I can dream, can't I? :-)) http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/ Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Appearing as: Para 1 end of para2 Start of Para 2... foo This is what CSS is for: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200702/new_css_properties_in_safari/ Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
But we're all agreed, I hope, that having an element achieve this effect is much desired (even if it might be difficult for a machine to quickly interpret its value) - after all, it's long been in semantic use in human literature pre-ML. I think we're also all agreed that separation is a better name for such a thing. Separation separates something, but in case of div id=one/divdiv id=two.../div these divs are already separated—by being different divs :). If one wants to make separation more prominent—CSS is to rescue. I can see some use of HR in no CSS scenario, but this is more in theory than practice. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
im using HR's to separate two chapters of text for example. If the second one has no heading HR is a perfect choice. Making two divs of it ... why then not make a div for every paragraph? =) Because paragraph has got its own element. My point is that there very rarely is a need for any additional separator in case when elements are already marked up. div class=chapter h2Whatever/h2 p.../p p.../p ... /div div class=chapter h2Whoever/h2 p.../p p.../p ... /div Now you have both chapters marked up. In case of hr you would have only separator. Where are the boundaries of the stuff it separates? Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
@Rimantas: You seem to be of the camp which maintains that use of the horizontal rule as a visual device is never justified. I disagree. I am in a slightly different camp, namely, I agree that there _may be_ the situation when HR is the most appropriate element, but I did not happen to came across such recently. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
... But if there is a problem with these ephemeral and hard-to-define elements, standardistas should use their sense of order and clear markup to help integrate these elements - attempting to remove them is futile, if anything it'll just result in them being used or simulated badly. So, what's so bad with separators simulated with CSS. Con: you won't have them with CSS off. Pro: cleaner code, more flexibility. (http://rimantas.com/bits/hr/nohr.html was a quick example I made in May 2005, when similar discussion is going on some of w3 mailing list). I doubt that anybody is arguing against the visual separator per se. The way it comes to life is another matter. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
You are completely missing the point. It needs to be *MORE* than just visual for Accessibility reasons. While an hr / may not have any true semantic meaning (in a strict sense), it is structural none-the-less; it indicates a clean break between what proceeds it and what follows it. This concept is not hard to understand - it is neither ephemeral nor hard-to-define. However, it renders horribly in today's ultra-cool graphic interface designs, and so designers/developers shun it. Very interesting and very unconvincing. For one, HR can be styled, so not too much problem for today's ultra-cool graphic interface. As for Accessibility I am really interested how HR helps it, and how it is rendered in non visual browsers, and is this the best way of doing it. And so the way it comes to life *is* important - it should be integral to the source code. The way it visually renders... Now that's where there is room for improvement. Ok, how about this improvement - give the section which must be separated from the previous one some meaningful header, but hide it with CSS, rendering only visual separator, like line, three stars, whatever. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
... Since the hr / *is* a page element, it is announced and rendered as such - it is a Horizontal Rule - or break, in just about every user-agent known to mankind; it is one of the most basic of HTML constructs. There is a reason *why* you as a page author/content creator wants that line/division/break on screen - I mean it's not just there on a whim is it? Thats my point: there must be the reason for such separation and I don't think that Horizontal Rule be it visual or aural. And so, ensuring that the intent carries through to alternative user-agents is a goal of Universal Accessibility. We have the HTML tool to do this - the hr / - yes, it's ugly, yes' it's limiting, but, yes, it has more *meaning* than img src=linebreak.gif alt= /. Ok, let's take img src=linebreak.gif alt=Horizontal rule /. In visual media it will be horizontal rule, aural browser will announce it as image: horizontal rule. Is it any worse than just Horizontal rule? If inserting a meaningful Heading at that point in you content is appropriate, then this is good (but why would you hide it from some, and not others? Would not the meaningful header also be of aid/assistance to those with cognitive load issues, those with lower comprehension or literacy skills - perhaps ESL?). Exactly. If separation is indeed that meaningful why not to use something more meaningful to announce it? However, again, I will ask: if you are using the image to convey *any* kind of meaning what-so-ever, how are you conveying this meaning to alternative user-agents. It also means you must ask yourself if there *is* a meaning to the break image (I submit that there probably is) or is it really just eye-candy. ... I still see HR as eye-candy or ear-candy. Ok, let's say you are reading the book for someone, and encounter the separator. What would you do? Say three stars follow, horizontal line follows, or just make a longer pause? So, if following section deserves own header - give it, if not - render longer pause in aural version, and some eye candy for visual media with CSS. If aural browser does not support pause-before properly: too bad. ... Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
Hooray! I've been watching this with my jaw hanging ever closer to the ground... To sum up: div and span have NO semantic meaning and are transparent to screen readers and (sans style) invisible in common browsers hr indicates the end of a section and/or beginning of a new section with no name/title And div still does not indicate anything? Shall we stick a HR just to know where section begins and ends? The DIV and SPAN elements, in conjunction with the id and class attributes, offer a generic mechanism for adding structure to documents. These elements define content to be inline (SPAN) or block-level (DIV) but impose no other presentational idioms on the content. Thus, authors may use these elements in conjunction with style sheets, the lang attribute, etc., to tailor HTML to their own needs and tastes. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
I think pause is just what screen readers would do at hr / - so why not
use it for its purpose?
Because we can style the div/whatever that would come after HR the
same way–to render
pause and that makes HR redundant, imho.
So let's tomorrow discuss do we really need that weird non semantic br /.
Or we can just stick with span and span{display:block} ? =)
I think we still need br and hr. They are similar in a lot of ways.
BR is tougher, I haven't made my mind about it yet :)
But for tomorrow I'll try my best to avoid discussing semantics
altogether, this
is not as bad as fluid vs. fixed or font-size, but it is close ;)
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Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
Ok, let's take img src=linebreak.gif alt=Horizontal rule /. In visual media it will be horizontal rule, aural browser will announce it as image: horizontal rule. Is it any worse than just Horizontal rule? First, move beyond screen reading technology - web accessibility is way more than web pages for the blind. Believe or not, I am aware of it. Your suggestion of using an image with the alt text of Horizontal rule is bordering on silly. It harkens back to the days of img src=spacer.gif alt=*... And how many times have we encountered that in the past. It is a strange suggestion for a list that is supposed to be about Web Standards. If was not my suggestion. I just wanted to say, that hr is not that better than img Sorry if my English is too bad to make it clear. You want a visually rich method of supplying a delimitating separator - we get that. In the interest of accessibility, how do you extend that meaning - as I again argue there *is* a meaning implied for it to be on your visually rendered page. If I want that - I get it with CSS, styling one of the sections that are supposed to be separated. In this case HR is simply redundant in my eyes. The point here is: That visual separator indicated that there was a break. Full stop. To fail to acknowledge this is simply being contrary, and not really adding anything to the discussion. No. I'd say it this way: there was a break which was made visual by using separator. That is - it is break, shift in thought, whatever that comes first. Visual/aural representation of it comes second. Since I believe CSS is capable of rendering this visual representation, I maintain the point that HR is redundant. Hey, if I could find *ONE* commercially available screen reading technology that supported aural style sheets, then I would agree that *sometimes* this would be the way to go. Please name me one (just one) technology that supports aural CSS. http://dotjay.co.uk/tests/css/aural-speech/ - so we must wait for the results of JAWS test to show up. In any case, I still think that even with the lack of support for the aural CSS there are better ways to indicate break/separation than saying Horizontal rule. It just does not sound right to me (pun intended). Thanks for your thoughts, but I am out of this discussion :) Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Smallest valid html document (was validator.w3.org broken?)
That's not minimal document. This one is: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN title./titlep. Strictly speaking, the p is optional - you only need a title and some content In this case dots are optional, p is not. What you say is true for Transitional DTD. The shortest page I think is valid is: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//IETF//DTD HTML//ENtitle/title. Anyone? Well, I'll limit myself to HTML4.01 for now :) Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] validator.w3.org broken?
I'm trying to understand why the w3 validator believe's the following minimal document is invalid: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN html lang=en head /head body /body /html There are two errors: 1. Line 5 column 6: end tag for HEAD which is not finished 2. Line 8 column 6: end tag for BODY which is not finished. That's not minimal document. This one is: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN title./titlep. Your document has empty HEAD, but it must contain at leas TITLE (the only element which should be marked up explicitly). BODY is also empty, but it must contain some block leve elements or INS|DEL. Regards, Rimantas http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] validator.w3.org broken?
Thanks Mitch, it also appears that the body element must have a child node that is of an Element type. A text node won't suffice, and for that matter I can't think of a use-case whereby the body would contain just text. Thanks again. It will suffice with Transitional DTD. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i
I know these tags are only supposed to be used for presentational rather than semantic emphasis, but i've been struggling to come up with examples of when they would be used. Same here. The only situation I can think of when there is an established visual standard for certain things that don't really have a semantic emphasis. My take is that if something is presented differently there must be a reason for that. For example, when listing somebody's academic qualifications the standard is to display the institution in italics but i'd say that it's not appropriate to use em. I'd use span clas=institution.../span. A. Ingram, MEng iWarw/i Does anyone know of any other legitimate uses of these tags? Well, ok, maybe i class=institutionWarw/i. It has some semantics brought in with class and it stays in italics even with CSS off. And it is shorter. Still, I doubt I'll ever use b or i. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] OT - maybe: quote or word of the day
I'm not being awkward but I still don't understand the issue here. document.write is not what is being served. Rather, it is part of a script that is serving html on the client side. What does javascript have to do the parsing of the xhtml? How else do I serve html using javascript? document.write does not work when XHTML is treated as such, i.e. when document is served with apropriate MIME type (application/xhtml+xml). You can try for yourself, go to http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/content-type-proxy/content-type-proxy enter http://choctaw.co.uk/tftw.php?counter=45 as Location and application/xhtml+xml as Content-type. Submit and check what you get... Don't pay attention to missing styling, that's not important in this case. These will provide you some more information: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/xhtml-faq#docwrite http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1091626816count=1 http://www.hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml http://lachy.id.au/log/2005/12/xhtml-beginners http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200501/the_perils_of_using_xhtml_properly/ Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Flash is more accessible than CSS?
... I saw Bob Regan Macromedia and now Adobe accessability evangelist, give a demo four years and I was impressed then by how accessible Flash could be in the right hands. (He also gave a great demo on CSS and accessibility). Macromedia and Adobe have been working on Flash accessibility for many years now, not the last couple. ... And I saw Robin Christopherson at @media 2006 demonstrating, how even Macrodobia's tutorial on accessible flash wasn't that accessible at all :( Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] looking for site-ot
As far as I can see, DL's are not deprecated, but they probably should be, as the vast majority of use cases are semantically incorrect. Maybe if you look at it very strictly, but they are OK with the spirit with at least HTML4.01. Specification provides example: Another application of DL, for example, is for marking up dialogues, with each DT naming a speaker, and each DD containing his or her words. I like this loose interpretation, DLs are great for pairing related items - like aforementioned speaker and his words or QA. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] When is use of absolute units acceptable?
I thought the definition of px as a relative unit was an error see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JanMar/0187 But there is this: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JanMar/0188.html : quote The whole topic is a red herring. It's ultimately a user and user-agent issue. If Working Group members could rid themselves of the psychosis that IT DOESN'T WORK IN INTERNET EXPLORER FOR WINDOWS, HENCE IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE, we'd be much better off. It is up to the user to adjust font size. If their browser or device won't let them do that, they need to choose a better browser or device. This does not excuse authors from any responsibility whatsoever, but it does excuse them from *ultimate* responsibility. /quote I do not always agree with Joe Clark, but I do agree with his view on this issue... Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML Marquee
Rule 1: JavaScript dependent elements should be generated with JavaScript, otherwise you promise functionality that may not be available. Strange rule, indeed. What if with JS element does something, without JS - just sits here and provides its content? Like, say, collapsible trees, which are just some nested ULs if JavaScript is not available. I can see how this rule applies to something like show/hide link, which will not work if JS is disabled, or JS powered stylesheet switcher, but this rule is far from being general. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] document.write and JS dependent features (was: XHTML Marquee)
... Regarding tag soup and XHTML being served as text/html instead of application/xhtml+xml I have no comment and I don't even want to go there. It's a dead horse discussion. ... However, the way you serve page determines will document.write work or not. It does not depend on XHTML version: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/xhtml-faq#docwrite http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1091626816count=1 Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: Re[2]: [WSG] More than one style in one class atribute ?
... div class='c_red j_right'text/div But this is really a canonical example of how _not_ to use the class attribute. What is your opinion - may i use multiple styling in this case, or not? Or there is some other method of solving this problem? The problem is not the use of two class name, but names themselves: names should be based on the meaning, not the presentation. It becomes rather confusing later, when after some changes c_red j_right is in blue and justified to the left... Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] target=_blank
... If you want to use target for popups or frames you create HTML, so a HTML 4.01 doctype would do the same. ... This hack (despite the fact that it also would add a target to internal links links like a href=#content) means you force XHTML strict to be HTML. What am I missing here? XHTML is reformulation of HTML in XML that's it. Target in HTML4.01 Strict is as invalid as in XHTML Strict. It is allowed by transitional and frameset DTD in both too. -- Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] target=_blank
I don't see how a class could describe an element (for UAs, not authors). If there was a known convention on possible values, then I'd agree to say that it could convey information (other than style), but AFAIK this is not the case. I may be missing something though, so I'd be happy to hear what others think about this... http://microformats.org/ Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Hungarian notation for JavaScript and ActionScript?
I think that JavaScript has more need of this notation than other languages, precisely because of the weak typing. However, those who try and use the same notation rules for say Java as for JavaScript are going to have trouble. I find objNAME arrNAME etc useful, and things like txtNAME and slctNAME when dealing with the DOM I do not generally use intNAME or fltNAME unless there is a very good reason. I thin the following article is a good read on the topic: http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/2004/02/14/73108.aspx Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meyer's CSS text popups not working in IE (PC)
Well, I don't have any specific ones. They should cascade down from the
overall 'a' styles, shouldn't they?
- a:link { font-weight: bold; color:#963; text-decoration: none; }
Should I set some up specially?
Hi, take a look at http://www.quirksmode.org/css/ie6_purecsspopups.html
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Re: [WSG] Meyer's CSS text popups not working in IE (PC)
...
div#content li a span {
display: none;
}
...
And what are rules for div#content li a ?
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Re: [WSG] Alphabetical Listing Buttons
... NO hacks and dead simple!... Are you sure? Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Alphabetical Listing Buttons
Expanding on Bob's approach, you should be able to see why I disagree: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/alphabet.html Looks like an ordered list. ... Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] who's going to the @media conference
... I know Patrick Lauke will be sharing his wisdom. Are there any others? Remember, it's a great time to meet people, trade business cards, share resumes etc. ... +1 Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Compromising markup for performance
... I guess that's why you're seeing inline styles - the browser then doesn't even have to make a processing decision as such, it just applies the style rules directly to the element in question. ... Having some inline style defined doesn't prevent element from being affected by other sources of style information. I doubt, that inline styles are because of speed improvements, and think this is just the result of nobody caring. I don't see how inline styles relate to slow modem connection (apart from making document bigger and taking longer to download). Yes, separate stylesheet can make your first request to take longer, but then you'll have it cashed. With inline styles you send presentation info every time. It can make sense, only in case, when size ot this information takes less than ~0.5KB (aproximates size of HTTP headers to check a stylesheet on server side and get 304 Not modified response). Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
... See my other post (Ultimate 2 columns' requirements) for my detailed reasoning, but there are times when CSS simply just doesn't (=can't without hacks) get the job done. Is that shortcoming of CSS or just browsers? What do you call hacks? Is faux columns technique a hack? ... Nothing worn and pointless about it, it is a regular occurrence within web site design that you want or need to be able to do this. CSS is not yet able to do this. Maybe when all table elements within CSS are fully implemented it will be. So is this CSS not able, or IE? I am nitpicking on this, because I feel it is important to make this distinction. And it will be easier to remove hack (which are far less necessary than some think) from your single CSS file when that browser catches up, than clean up you multiple html pages (or templates) from tables. ... It has been said that CSS layouts are more search engine friendly and are leaner and quicker to download...it is not necessarily the case - table layouts with external style sheets for styling can be just as lean as CSS only layouts They can be lean, that's true, but I don't remember seeing much of these. As for just as lean – I'd argue this is not true. ... Why should someone that uses a table for layout purposes, when appropriate, not have validation or respect from their peers, or be looked down upon as incapable, old fashioned etc? ... I have read somewhere that one of the original mentioned uses of tables in some old HTML spec *was* layout. Can anyone verify this? So it _is_ old-fashioned? ... I am not that allergic for table layouts, and I agree that there _may_ be cases where table layout is appropriate – but I just don't see that. Either site uses zero tables for layout, or tens and hundreds. And appropriateness is such a gray area... Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] content: .;
Sorry for the ignorant, but what is this for? I saw it in someone esle code sometimes ago and see it again in another site. content: .; ... It's the CSS 'content' property, explained here: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#content And this explains what is this for? part: http://positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE 7 news
Saw this today... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12477036/from/RSS/ Anyone actually download it? I can only find Beta 2. This ir normal: only Beta 2 is available: https://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/04/24/582546.aspx Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Link problem2/ (site check)
... Two Bottom 'links' in brackets in the last question, leading? to w3c and zengardens. Still the same problem: It is a link it is not a link? (is in source and ie6, is not in firefox/opera) [Firefox recognises its visited state???] These are links, but that part of the page is under the div #bund, which covers the links, so they do not work. You may give some color/border to that div and see it yourself. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
