Re: [WSG] alternative to target=_blank in xhtml 1.1
Gallagher, Robin wrote: Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do this in xhtml 1.1? This solution requires no extra markup: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popup_window_with_no_extra_markup.asp HTH, --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS calling methods survey
Barney Carroll wrote: link? style @import? I use style with the @import directive so I can plug document specific rules or files using the *same* element. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 5.5 issue
William Mason wrote: Actually, he has it right. Older versions of IE require that the content you want centered be 'wrapped' in a another div/block. I'd use text-align:center on *body* and text-align:left in the main container (no need for an extra wrapper) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Styling a Code Listing
Hi all, I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_style_a_code_listing.asp Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Styling a Code Listing
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_style_a_code_listing.asp If whitespace needs to be preserved even when CSS is off (can't remember...is it python or something that actually depends on having the right number of spaces for indentation?), then possibly a pre could be wrapped around the code elements as well. True. I'll add a comment in the markup section about using PRE to preserve whitespace in case the document is not styled. Thanks --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Styling a Code Listing
Paul Novitski wrote:
At 1/25/2007 08:12 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_style_a_code_listing.asp
You say, With images off, the numbering would disappear because of
lack of contrast between foreground and background color.
This problem wouldn't exist if you simply chose the foreground
background (image) colors more wisely. Pick a text color that works
with or without the background -- either a mid-gray text that shows
up well on both white and dark gutter, or a dark text that shows up
well on both white and a pale gutter.
Hi Paul,
It's not that simple because of the dark color I chose for the gutter. If
there is a lot of contrast between the two areas, then there is no safe
value for text-color.
It is because I'm aware of this choice that I warn users about the image not
showing up. My preference is to lose the numbers with images off rather than
play safe by reducing contrast. I decided against mid-gray and white
and a pale gutter from the start.
Consider also that the gutter, instead of having a background color
at all, could simply be separated from the body of the listing with a
vertical rule.
Actually that's the way I had it to begin with, because then there is no
need for a wrapper :)
The challenge was to get these numbers appear over a background color and
stay in place on text-resizing.
I think I should make that clear in case people don't care about the solid
color, so they don't think they need to wrap the OL.
If I may stray topiclogically, I've never been able to figure out why
this style of bracketing has become standard and apparently so
well-loved:
label {
contents
}
I much prefer:
label
{
contents
}
which appeals to my sense of order and symmetry. The label, be it an
if-test or CSS selector, is on a line by itself, and both brackets
lie in the same column, making the whole structure much easier for me
to proofread and eyeball-search.
FWIW, I prefers this :
selector,
selector,
selector {
stuff
}
to this:
selector,
selector,
selector
{
stuff
}
If I have a selector on a line by itself it has to be followed by a comma.
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Styling a Code Listing
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_style_a_code_listing.asp Why the need for a background image ? http://dev.l-c-n.com/_temp/listing.html This is brilliant! Duh! I can't believe I missed that since I was already using the foreground color that way. Following the guidelines (foreground/background color) was all I needed :) Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: images as navigation
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: A simple approach to this dilemma (really simple in fact) a href=my_link title=my_link_descriptionimg src=my_image alt=my_link_description //a This is a JS approach that keeps the markup *clean* (no IMG elements, pure text). http://tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_tipMenu_demo.asp Using IMGs in the markup and keeping the CSS styles works as well and makes it JS free. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: images as navigation
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: There's also the empty span/span after the text in the link approach. You can use CSS to make the span show your image over the text real easy. Do a google search on the technique and you'll find plenty of examples. I don't remember who came up with it originally, but besides the extra empty element, its squeaky clean. IMHO, an IMG element is better than a SPAN as it comes with the following advantages: - it's semantic - it can be printed - it comes with an ALT attribute and it can scale: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/tip_5.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Styling thumbnails and captions
Hi all, I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve the quality of this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_style_thumbnail_and_caption.asp Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/thumbnail_and_caption/gallery_of_thumbnails.asp Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Styling thumbnails and captions
Hi Russ, Looks good! Thanks One question that people may ask you is how would this system work with different sized images or different length captions. The entire layout could fall to pieces if one caption in the middle of the page is much longer. The following floats may be caught by this long caption and sit beside it, rather than returning neatly below all previous images. This one has no BRs and captions are of three different length :) http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/thumbnail_and_caption/more_complex_gallery_of_thumbnails.asp It says in the article which value to play with to leave room either for more lines of text or for larger images. The only problem is that one needs to know the maximum number of lines that can be in the caption and the size of the largest image image. But as long as these two are known, then the author is safe. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
David Dorward wrote: On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:48:58PM -0800, Paul Novitski wrote: I believe the reason it's an ie-only hack is that standards-compliant browers won't apply the selector .ie-only.foo to any element because no element has both classes ie-only and foo div class=foo ie-only This element has both classes /div That's the way I saw it at first too, but in fact there would be no ie-only class plugged anywhere in the markup. It'd only appear in the styles sheet. I think it's a rather smart hack... BTW, do we know if it works in IE Mac too? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Erwin Heiser wrote: !--[if gt IE 6] link rel=stylesheet href=ie7.css media=screen ![endif]-- !--[if lte IE 6] link rel=stylesheet href=ie6.css media=screen ![endif]-- Why not going with !--[if IE 7] rather than !--[if gt IE 6] That way you don't have to worry about IE 8 :) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
Paul Novitski wrote:
At 12/15/2006 09:14 AM, Rafael Mumme wrote:
.foo { background:red;width:100px;height:100px; }
.ie-only.foo { background:blue; }
At 12/15/2006 11:08 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Actually, unless I'm missing something, it should be .non-ie
I believe the reason it's an ie-only hack is that standards-compliant
browers won't apply the selector .ie-only.foo to any element because
no element has both classes ie-only and foo, while IE will apply it
to any element with the class foo because it sees only the final
class of a multiple-class selector.
Hi Paul,
There was no markup associated with the original post, so after David's
post:
If by it works you mean that IE 6 and 7 get a red background while
other browsers get a blue background, then you'd be right.
I assumed the attribute included *both* classes:
class=ie-only foo
So thanks for the heads-up, *now* it makes more sense. :)
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
Barney Carroll wrote: An .ie-only selector is a fantastic little creature that I hadn't seen before. It has the advantage of being semantic - people will look at your code and know what's going on. Actually, unless I'm missing something, it should be .non-ie --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] [spam] urgent help with navigation li
Gerardo Chairez [Addictive Media] wrote:
Hello Guys,
I´m having some troubles trying to make this navigation works
propertly... I just can´t figure it out what is wrong with the css.
The site http://www.addictivemedia.com.mx/costena/
The css http://www.addictivemedia.com.mx/costena/includes/global.css
Hi Gerardo,
Replace your #navegacion a {...} rule with the one below:
#navegacion a {float:left;display:block;padding:0 5px;line-height:1.8em}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Compliant pop ups
Chris Price wrote: I would like to know, is it possible to have XHTML 1.0 strict compliant pop-ups? It is possible to include javascript so that a page can have a pop-up link and validate (as an alternative to target) but that doesn't make it compliant. This is a hook-free approach: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popup_window_with_no_extra_markup.asp HTH. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation question
Barney Carroll wrote: If you're thinking about this in the first place you may want to consider the increasingly popular philosophy that navigation is 9 times out of 10 the last thing someone wants to see first on any page (you just used it to get here, it's only if you've made a mistake that you're going to want to navigate away again immediately). If you subscribe to this usability belief, you may consider sequencing your page headercontentnavigation and including a 'Skip to navigation' at the end of the header. Using a bit of clever CSS, this needn't affect the visual layout of the page. This might be confusing for sighted keyboard users as tabbing navigation would work differently than what they would expect; this would be different if the menu was some vertical navigation bar (right hand side next to content) rather than an horizontal one showing above the content. Also, I think (I may be wrong though) the WCAG 2 (FWIW) recommends to display the elements in the same sequence as they show in the markup. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Compliant pop ups
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox/ with JAWS 7.10 and it's not good. The overlay is displayed if the user clicks the link but JAWS does not read any of the content in the overlay. In fact the user won't have any idea that the page has changed. Do you have any other examples where this technique has been applied? http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/gallery/photo_gallery.asp#null It's more keyboard-friendly than JAWS-friendly though... Actually, I'm starting to think that using display:none rather than position:absolute to hide content may be screenreader-friendlier when it comes to some show/hide behavior. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Horizontal Menu Issue
Tim White wrote: how can I set the width of that though... it will very depending on the size of the menu word... example being... HomeContact UsAbout UsNetwork Links That is one of the tricky spots of horizontal nav. I've always just done a trial and error, using either a) one size large enough for all or b) trial-and-error individual sizing. Anyone else have better ways of supplying widths to horizontal nav items? http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_ul2table_demo.asp If you just want good browsers to display the UL as if it was a table, you don't have to use the script, just the CSS part. HTH, --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
russ - maxdesign wrote: The legend can be positioned in Firefox by wrapping the content inside the legend in a span and styling this. Not ideal (additional unnecessary markup), but a quick and easy solution. legendspanLogin details/span/legend Nice workaround. I wrote a script to plug the necessary SPANs in legend elements: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_position_the_legend_element.asp A bit useless maybe :) It depends how much one wants to keep the markup clean. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Decline of Print Styles
Look at http://www.tsa.ind.br they have print styles, and also a php print preview, using the print CSS. I did that on my site years ago using ASP to find out *later* that browsers already had a Print Preview option :-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] i have a javascript problem
Dwain Alford wrote:
ah ha, onclick. i like that. so i guess i go borrow your code? is
there js involved? there doesn't seem to be any here, yes?
Yes, it is needed to reveal the sub-menus, and to create the skip links,
but it is unobtrusive and it degrades well (the menu expands if there is no
script support).
But I wouldn't use this solution; I wrote this script to show how to help
keyboard users to go through links that are positionned off the viewport.
But such menus create lot of noise for screenreader users.
What you can do is use the vertical dropdown approach [1] but styling the
whole think vertically; that way you'd end up with an accessible accordeon
menu.
The script would not change, the markup either, it's just a matter of
editing the stylesheet.
Remove the float declaration from the #TJK_dropDownMenu li {...} rule,
remove padding and position declarations from the #TJK_dropDownMenu li ul
{...} rule and you'll see that you're half way there :)
thanks, this is a terrific solution and i think it works better for
me.
Thanks, I'm glad you find it useful.
[1] http://tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: This may be of interest http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/general-accessibility/too-much-accessibility-fieldset-legends/ Thanks for the link. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using list items for horizontal navigation
Stevio wrote: However, I have a couple questions. One of the challenges of the conversion was getting each link to act like its own cell/box so it would change background colour but stay within the top and bottom border of the navigation bar. Unlike a table cell, the list items don't stay contained within their box so easily. To solve this I set the line height of the navigation bar as follows: You don't have to go with the javascript part, but this page shows how to use float:left with IE and display:table;display:table-cell; with better browsers: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_ul2table_demo.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] xhtml strict break tag bug?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe should mention that these are menu links that she. Unless I'm missing something, these BR elements could be replaced with a simple display:block declaration. On the other hand, I have a question regarding accessibility: is a BR element as good as a printable character when it comes to separate these links? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] xhtml strict break tag bug?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.webado.net/webado-net-tpl.php is transitional http://www.webado.net/webado-net-tpl-strict.php is strict Now that I've seen the links in context, I wonder why are the BR for? I guess they are here in case the document shows without styles applied. But that would be more reason to use a UL :) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] xhtml strict break tag bug?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/xhtml/index3.html
above is the best I can do, remember I am an amatuer. Netscape and
Mozilla are ignoring a few br / tags in the html between the Webado
shop and Policy links, have no idea why.
That's because you have *3* BRs in between these two links instead of one.
But as I said, I don't see the purpose of these elements unless in the case
the document would appear unstyled.
So I think an easy way to take care of the whole thing is to use CSS to get
rid of them rather than trying to style them.
Try this:
.sidemenu br {display:none}
.sidemenu a {margin-bottom:2px}
That way, you can even keep the three BRs :)
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] xhtml strict break tag bug?
Mel wrote: No. As far as I am aware, it's equivalent to use whitespace to separate links - which means that it could create probems for some users. I'm not sure if JAWS 7 can audibly separate the links itself. Certainly, older screen readers will have problems and, probably, anyone using a braille display. That's what I thought. Thanks Mel. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Sliding Door Tabs
Tom Livingston wrote: Hello list, I am about to embark on my first Sliding Doors tab adventure. Just wondering if Doug Bowman¹s ALA articles from 2003 are the best resource for this. Are there newer updated resources? From the same era: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/scalable.asp Only if you care for IE5 Mac and NN 6... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE doesnt pickup the anchor
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Bojana Lalic wrote: Is there a known problem with IE ignoring #anchors? That's called a fragment identifier. For example, doing a search on http://lorn.beta.flexiblelearning.net.au/lorn/go/home (in Firefox) produces the following url: http://lorn.beta.flexiblelearning.net.au/lorn/search?...#resulttab However, doing a search on the same url but in IE produces the following url: (There is no #resulttab at the end of the url in IE). IE6 seems to behave as if the fragment identifier were present (i.e. it scrolls the result page to the correct location) but it doesn't include it in the URI in the address bar. Considering it gives the desired behaviour, I wouldn't worry too much. It's just a bug in IE that can be ignored and there's nothing you can do to fix it anyway, except filing a bug report. The problem is that keyboard users can't tab from that location, but this may not be related to the missing fragment identifier: http://juicystudio.com/article/ie-keyboard-navigation.php --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BG images in links
Paul Novitski wrote:
2) Preload the hover-state images by marking them up on the page in a
way that doesn't show -- such as shifting them off-screen with a
large negative margin-left in CSS. By the time the page finishes
loading, they will already be in cache and will appear
immediately. One small disadvantage here is that your page might
contain semantically unnecessary markup to support these image
preloader elements.
3) Preload the hover-state images with javascript. Disadvantages are
the additional clutter of the script itself and the fact that
preloading won't happen when scripting is disabled.
4) Use CSS:
a:link,a:visited {background:url(up_image.gif) no-repeat 0
50%;background-image:url(down_image.gif)}
a:hover,a:active,a:focus {background-image:url(up_image.gif)}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] BG images in links
Paul Novitski wrote: Thanks, Thierry, that's very cool, I'll give it a try. I didn't know that referencing two background images for the same selector in this way would download both of them. (Do you recall if you stumbled on this yourself or got the idea from someone else?) Hi Paul, I got the idea from this blog entry: http://farm.tucows.com/blog/_archives/2006/4/24/1907631.html The only thing I added to this is the idea of using *existing* elements rather than creating one for the only purpose of preloading images. I still lean toward using a single composite background image and changing background-position on hover because of the lesser download weight, but I'll add this technique to my bag o' tricks. Positioning a single image is a great technique too, it just depends on the type of image/rollover effect one is dealing with. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
Chris Price wrote: I don't want to start a rerun of the javascript fudging standards argument but does anyone have the url of a favourite article on the subject? That's my favourite one, but I'm a little bit biased :) http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popup_window_with_no_extra_markup.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using JS to expand Abbreviations
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this counts as 'progressive enhancement' or not. If it is, then JS is acceptable (not necessarily best) solution. On the other hand, this solution has already been discussed in the context of final print output, and would seem beneficial to all users, regardless of technology, which makes server-side manipulation much more effective. Mike, Barney, My previous post was not about the best side to do this; it was only related to giving authors options. Some may not want to go with a server-side solution, others may not be able to... This script is just another tool in the box, it doesn't claim to answer a question ;-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using JS to expand Abbreviations
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a good reason for doing this with JavaScript rather than doing it server side? Do you know of a SS solution to do this? I'd be glad to link to it from my article. IMHO, it's not a server-side vs. client-side thing, but a simple matter of what's available to authors. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using JS to expand Abbreviations
Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_abbr_demo.asp Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_expand_abbreviations.asp I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this solution. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Ozewai2005 fork
Pierre-Henri Lavigne wrote:
/ul
h2 class=structurelabel
Water birds navigation
/h2
*ol* id=secondarynav
* listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican span
class=offleftHere you are/span/a/strong/li*
lia href=birds02.htmBlack Swan/a/li
lia href=birds03.htmLittle Pied Cormorant/a/li
lia href=birds04.htmPurple Swamphen/a/li
lia href=birds05.htmMusk Duck/a/li
/ul
Pierre-Henri,
I believe there is no need for a class attribute in there as you can go
with:
listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican spanHere you
are/span/a/strong/li
And style this element using:
#secondarynav strong span {...}
FWIW, I use em instead of strong
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: For the sake of completeness -- i.e. terminating a thread most folks are probably tired of :-) It has been an interesting thread for me. I had no idea that Apache and IIS returned different DOCUMENT_URI values when using echo in an Include... it'd be nice to note the Apache version involved in the differing results, e.g. It's because I got the same values yesterday with IIS and Apache that I decided to publish the page on a remote server (to make sure). This morning... that page acts the same locally *and* remotely (???) I guess that was too much testing last night. :-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Multi-Column List
Paul Novitski wrote: If you haven't already, please read my List Apart article http://alistapart.com/articles/multicolumnlists/. I'd love it if you could improve on any of those techniques or come up with ones I hadn't considered. Hi Paul, What about this one?: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/ ;-) BTW, there are typos in the markup box on http://www.alistapart.com/d/multicolumnlists/example5.html You're missing the opening A tags... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] DOM created table markup [was: Accessible Multi-Column List]
Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/26/06, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10/26/2006 04:06 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: Paul Novitski wrote: If you haven't already, please read my List Apart article http://alistapart.com/articles/multicolumnlists/. I'd love it if you could improve on any of those techniques or come up with ones I hadn't considered. Hi Paul, What about this one?: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/ ;-) Table-based markup! How ingenious! You're a regular pioneer of the untrod realms, Thierry. I highly doubt that the idea of using tables for layout will ever catch on =) I don't agree :-) IMO, the goal should be to deliver the *cleanest* document possible, with the least amount of structural hack, hook, etc. In the example I posted, one can't get cleaner than that. The only issue I see is that screen-readers end up with a table. But I have an idea about this: what about going one step further than styles switchers, why not implementing *behavior* switchers? I mean, any fail-safe solution that targets visual browsers could be turned off. I'd say that would be more valuable for many users than giving them a choice between different skins or text-size ;-) This document is semantic and has nothing extra to parse: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/ on top of that, it is possible to make the list display across different number of columns without having to edit the markup nor the stylesheet; actually, there is *no* stylesheet ;) Disabling the script is all what is needed for screen-readers to speak the links in the proper sequence. Think about it... ;-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] DOM created table markup [was: Accessible Multi-Column List]
Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/26/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree :-) IMO, the goal should be to deliver the *cleanest* document possible, with the least amount of structural hack, hook, etc. In the example I posted, one can't get cleaner than that. The only issue I see is that screen-readers end up with a table. But I have an idea about this: what about going one step further than styles switchers, why not implementing *behavior* switchers? I mean, any fail-safe solution that targets visual browsers could be turned off. I'd say that would be more valuable for many users than giving them a choice between different skins or text-size ;-) This document is semantic and has nothing extra to parse: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/ on top of that, it is possible to make the list display across different number of columns without having to edit the markup nor the stylesheet; actually, there is *no* stylesheet ;) Disabling the script is all what is needed for screen-readers to speak the links in the proper sequence. Think about it... ;-) Oh, I've been thinking about it. I've been wondering three things: 1. Can't you get the same result by using display:table? (granted, it would be hard) To begin with, IE is display:table-challenged (actually, that's what got me started [1]). And the problem would be the same, with a CSS solution one would have to plug hooks depending on the number of lists/columns to display. 2. Wouldn't it be better to use the dom to split the list into two lists and display them side by side? (how does the table work if there is an odd number of items?) But that's the whole problem. Why trying to generate something half decent? I think it is better to implement a solution that is perfect for visual browsers (what is more cross-browsers friendly than a table?) and implement some switch mechanism to disable the script when needed (screen-readers). Regarding the table with odd number of items, it is just a matter of doing more Maths to create empty cells to the left of the last ones. This is just something I quickly put together, I don't think there is any real use for it... yet ;-) 3. How does this expect to deal with user agents that look at *generated source* and not original source? I know, I mentionned this in my previous message. But as a side note, table for layout is not always a problem [1] (see checkpoints 5.3 and 5.4) . Anyway, what I'm saying is that we have skip links, increase contrast links, increase text-size links, why not adding a turn-off visual enhancement kind of link ;-) [1]: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/make_an_html_list_look_like_a_table.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: But include files won't make the links submit differently (depending on which document host them), and I think that's what Tee is after. Yes, SSIs wouldn't, but ? try !--#echo var=DOCUMENT_URI -- on your SSI-enabled page :-) Hassan, I think you're taking this out of context. The original post was: Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no server-side scripting language available) It was about using SS-I *without* server-side scripting. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Tee G. Peng wrote: It works excellently. http://eto.marinersq.com/?q=multilevel.html The section 508 generates the result for home page but with inner pages, it requres one more click for contentquality.com, I guess it's to do with the way hisoftware handles the validation for external link. It seems to work fine, what happens is that contentquality.com has a policy about URL submission. If you followed both links in less than a minute or so, Cynthia says: The maximum allowed URL submissions has been reached for the Host: eto.marinersq.com. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using JS to generate navigation links [was: a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links]
This is an unobtrusive script that will generate those links for you: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/easy_way_to_generate_validation_links.asp It can open the links in a new window or in the same one. If you go for the former, it adds Open in new window to the title attribute. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: It was about using SS-I *without* server-side scripting. which was exactly my point -- vanilla SSI meets the requirement :-) And it's a very good point ;-) I always thought the echo directive didn't work in shtml pages (only include), but it *does*. I guess this is one more reason to never use htm or html, but at least shtml. No? What would be the reason for choosing htm or html for file extension? Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Hassan Schroeder wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: It was about using SS-I *without* server-side scripting. which was exactly my point -- vanilla SSI meets the requirement :-) And it's a very good point ;-) I always thought the echo directive didn't work in shtml pages (only include), but it *does*. Let me take that whole thing back :) The original idea was to use an Include to keep the markup in *one place*, right? But if we use the echo directive in that include, it returns the include itself, *not* the document that *hosts* the include, right? So, if I'm right, the approach would not really work with *SS-Includes*, even with vanilla ones ;-) I guess the directive would make more sense in Templates, like Dreamweaver templates and such where content is more duplicated than Included. Does that make sense? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Christian Montoya wrote: I guess this is one more reason to never use htm or html, but at least shtml. No? What would be the reason for choosing htm or html for file extension? Youthful ignorance? I think so. The only reason I can think of is if these files need to be accessed *directly*, not through a server. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using JS to generate navigation links [was: a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links]
Chris Williams wrote: Nice script. One quibble... You say validate section 580, but it's section 508 :) Yeah! 580 is the freeway here :) Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: The original idea was to use an Include to keep the markup in *one place*, right? But if we use the echo directive in that include, it returns the include itself, *not* the document that *hosts* the include, right? wrong. :-) Really? What about this then?: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/default.shtml IMHO, it sows that using the echo directive in an nclude will always return the same path, no matter which document is served. Personally I think shtml is ugly, and there's no reason for it; make all your .html files server-parsed. For most real-world apps and circumstances the overhead is negligible. But not everybody can change server settings, isn't ;-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: I run WAMP, and when I test a php version of my test page, I get the exact same result as in IIS. What does PHP have to do with SSI?? Apache has an INCLUDES filter and parses SS-Includes, no? But do you mean SSI or IIS? I'm not sure I understand that question. All I can tell you is my test shows the DOCUMENT_URI of the parent document, not the include. But that's on a system inside a firewall that I can't expose, so you'll have to take my word for it. NP. I just ran a test on a *remote* server and I got the same result as yours. There are lots of hosting plans. Some offer .htaccess override to allow people to enable specific features of the Apache httpd. And some don't. And some people lease servers, virtual or otherwise, so they don't have to worry about the whole issue, and can provide the best solution for their clients, full stop. You pay for what you want, or need, eh? That's not a reason to not discuss what the technology can provide... I totally agree, and that's why I put *IIS* into the picture . ;-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take III
Now I'm using CSS to let users tab through the *current* sub-menu if there is no script support, hence this solution is screen-reader and search-engine friendly: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/ Thanks to Lachlan for the heads up. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] hack for IE that is display:table-challenged
Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_ul2table_demo.asp Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/make_an_html_list_look_like_a_table.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no server-side scripting language available) You're right about using referer, it's not reliable. But include files won't make the links submit differently (depending on which document host them), and I think that's what Tee is after. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] remove links to self the easy way
Terrence Wood wrote: Recently Derek Powazek reiterated Nielsen's 2003 usability guideline [1] about Never, ever link[ing] to the page you’re on[2]. I've often thought one of prime motivators for resisting this piece of advice on (the front end, at least) is the difficulty one has in producing CSS that doesn't wreck the design of navigation bars he a is removed. Here's the easy fix: just remove the href attribute. An anchor element sans ANY attribute is perfectly acceptable HTML[3]. I wrote a script [1] awhile ago to do this. I chose not to remove the href attribute because some browser had problems with it (I think it was Opera). The script allows the use of an EM too. I think using an EM is not such a big deal regarding CSS, it is just a matter of adding it to the rules already used for the A in the stylesheet. Making sure to use the ID of the menu with it so not all EM elements would inherit these rules... [1]: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/navigation_links_and_current_location.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a new IE bug? maybe not
I experienced something very frustrating and had wasted many hours to find the culprit. Not sure if it's a new discovery or something that is known by many people, thought I share it with you and hopefully it can save you some grieve to try to figure what goes wrong in the future. Was working on a page that uses (PVII) dropdown menu and it doesn't up in IE 6 7. I thought it was my code at question, turned out it was because I didn't upload the SWF file, thus causing dropdown menu not showing up. You can see the page here http://new.marinersq.com/html/aerobics.html I believe it is only because the page is hanging (it does not *load*). BTW, the sidebar drops below the main column in IE 6 --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Lists and DIR=RTL
Andrew Cunningham wrote: For your English example, IE and Firefox exhibit variant behaviour. Not surprising since its an artificial example unlikely to be seen in real life situations. Although begs the question as to what would happen in a fully bilingual environment. I'd assuem form the beaviour in English tests, that Firefox treats teh directionality of the alt tag as significant, while IE just uses UI mirroring principles for the images when the list-items have a status of embedded. Although I could be reading more into this than there is. That what bothered me with that very basic example (FF vs. IE display), but I find your suggestion regarding the ALT attribute very interesting and I tried with images with no ALT attribute's values. With the LIs styled as inline and without unicode-bidi, Firefox display the images *differently* . Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a new IE bug? maybe not
Tee G. Peng wrote: BTW, the sidebar drops below the main column in IE 6 What OS do you use? I don't see it from my XP nor from browser cam ! Sorry, I should have told you: XP Pro - IE 6.0.2800.1106.XPSP2.030320-1720 --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Lists and DIR=RTL
Andrew Cunningham wrote: one of the issues with your example is that you set the unicode-bidi attribute to embed. If you didn't have the unicode-bidi set to embed, and you use latin script characters in your test, you'd get different results in soem browsers compared to the same markup with arabic characters. Again, I don't think this is all about latin characters vs. arabic characters. Regardless of the script used, without unicode-bidi, one does get different results across browsers . In my example, FF keeps all lists LTR while IE shows the second one RTL --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Lists and DIR=RTL
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
I have two Unordered Lists:
- one contains text in A elements (a href=#Text/a)
- one contains image in A elements (a href=#img //a)
CSS:
li {display:inline}
How come the display of the two is *different* (regarding
orientation) when I use RTL with the DIR attribute?
Can you publish some minimal test cases to demonstrate the issue and
explain what you're attempting to use the dir attribute for?
It sounds like you may be trying to use it for presentational
purposes, though it's designed for semantic purposes when using
right-to-left languages. If so, you may be able to achieve the
effect using the 'direction' and 'unicode-bidi' properties.
I'm using it for the right purpose.
I just found the issue and put something together:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/whitespace_and_rtl_direction.asp
I was going in circles with this, AFAIK, this issue is not documented at
all.
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Lists and DIR=RTL
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: I just found the issue and put something together: http://www.tjkdesign.com/test/whitespace_and_rtl_direction.asp Just an observation: whitespace doesn't matter in Opera 9 (from prev1 onwards). So, whitespace may be important to browsers when dealing with such cases, but it shouldn't be. I agree, and that's why it took me so long to find the issue. FWIW, I'm impressed with Opera on this one... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
Lachlan Hunt wrote: It seems quite good, though I think there's a way you can improve it for screen readers. If you set focus to the opened dropdown menu when the user presses enter, the screen reader will begin reading it out. http://juicystudio.com/article/making-ajax-work-with-screen-readers.php For screen-reader users I'm using the title attribute to let them know that the link they are on toggles a sub-menu. I know that not all of these users will have access to this element, but I wanted to care for sighted keyboard users too. If I give focus to the first link in the sub-menu, then these users won't be able to peek at the sub-menus and move on to the next top level item; they'll have to back paddle. I don't know... It's tough to please *all* users.. i see you have copyrighted the process; will you have a problem with sharing your find with us? I don't have any problem sharing [1], so feel free to use it for your nephew's site. [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ Ah, crap! IANAL, but doesn't that non-commercial mark mean we technically can't use this on any site we develop for our clients because we're getting paid?! I sure that's not your intention, can't you use a more appropriate licence like the CC attribution-only, modified BSD or, better yet, public domain? I recommend public domain, with a little note requesting (but not requiring) attribution. I'm fine with people using this solution to develop web sites they're paid for. What I don't want to see is people packaging the menu to resell it or to include it in commercial web templates. Is there a license that would match this idea? Thanks for your feedback. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
Chris Taylor wrote: Lachlan Hunt said: [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ Ah, crap! IANAL, but doesn't that non-commercial mark mean we technically can't use this on any site we develop for our clients because we're getting paid?! I sure that's not your intention, can't you use a more appropriate licence like the CC attribution-only, modified BSD or, better yet, public domain? I recommend public domain, with a little note requesting (but not requiring) attribution. Agreed, when I first saw this I thought I'd found a replacement for the old trusty Suckerfish. The non-commercial requirement ties our hands to using this on many of the sites we'd like to. Thierry, will you reconsider this choice of licence? Hi Chris, See my reply to Lachlan, I have no problem with people using it on sites they build for clients. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: On Oct 17, 2006, at 2:21 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I followed all suggestions made after I published the first demo and came up with this... Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/ Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp Is that good enough now? :) It's not bad :-). Thanks ;) Nit pick: you may want to use some a:focus magic to highlight the links in the toplevel menu for keyboard users. I do that already, but I agree it's very subtle (the text goes form gray to black). The reason I didn't go with a background change (as I do in the sub-menus) is that I thought some people would click on a top level item and then wonder why it stays highlighted while they are hovering over other elements... But I agree with you that some authors would prefer to have a background color swap, so I've added two coments to the stylesheet so people can easily go this route if they want to. Oh, and it works nicely with Camino 1.0, 1.1a1 and Camino trunk builds (hardly surprising, same rendering engine as Fx 1.5, Fx 2.0RC and Gecko 1.9 trunk respectively). Camino 0.8.2 is _really_ old. Nit pick: in your browser support list, under Mac, you mention 'Firefox 2.5.0'. There is no beast like that. Firefox 1.5.x or Firefox 2.0 rc ? Thanks, it was supposed to say versions 1.0 and 1.5. - not 2.5 (I guess I did some Maths on this one) ;) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
Graham Cook wrote: Graham Cook ph: 0419 316 815 web: www.uaoz.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The menu looks great. However, I have a question re accessibility, how can keyboard only users navigate the menu? Can you also have the drop-down submenus activate on focus as well as on hover. Yes. The enter key toggles the sub-menus. Give it a try: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/default.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
TuteC wrote: Excellent work! The first time I´ve seen it I thought it was great, but all of you improved it a lot. We never stop learning... Thanks --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
I followed all suggestions made after I published the first demo and came up with this... Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/ Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp Keyboard users can go from one top level item to the next without having to go through the nested links (the enter key toggles the sub-menus). Regarding pointing devices; I went with vertical sub-menus rather than horizontal ones (avoiding diagonal paths) and I added a 10px cushion all around the sub-menus. Is that good enough now? :) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: Is that good enough now? :) wonderful! i need to tidy a horizontal menu on my nephew's site. may i use this and is a tutorial on how to make this happen forth coming (along with the js)? Hi Dwain, I don't think I'll write a *tutorial*. Rules are well commented and the script is plug-and-play. I'd say the best is to lift the whole page and start from there; removing what you don't need. i see you have copyrighted the process; will you have a problem with sharing your find with us? I don't have any problem sharing [1], so feel free to use it for your nephew's site. [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take II
John Faulds wrote: Works fine in FF 1.5.0.7 if you want to add that to your list of Win browsers. ;) Duh! I have versions 0.8 and 1.5 and I totally forgot to include these two. Thanks John. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] programmmer said: difination list not a standard practise
Paul Novitski wrote: At 10/11/2006 07:08 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd agree it is rare to see more than one DT but not to see multiple DDs. Come on, you guys, revisit the spec: Revisit my post :) I said it was less common than a succession of DDs Out of Russ's 7 examples [1] there is not one with 2 DTs following each other ;) [1] http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/ --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using my Image replacement technique to create graphic menus
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_tipMenu_demo.asp Demo: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_tipMenu_demo.asp Also, I'd like to hear opinions about the real value of *text* vs. alt attributes. I know some say images are *as good as* text as long as they have the proper ALT attribute. Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using my Image replacement technique to create graphic menus
David Dorward wrote: At least with regular images a user can turn them off and get the alt text (which can be styled in at least some browsers, Firefox being the test case I just ran though). But these *are* regular images; and if you turn images off you should get *real* text. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using my Image replacement technique to create graphic menus
John Faulds wrote: Article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_tipMenu_demo.asp That should actually be: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/using_real_images_in_menus.asp Thanks John, That's because I'm cut-and-paste-challenged. But sometimes it gets worst, I post things like: http://localhost/articles/TJK_tipMenu_demo.asp :-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] programmmer said: difination list not a standard practise
Jough wrote: I hate to bring this up because it will probably start one heck of an argument, but I would like to give my opinion on the semantics of this particular project. In some rare occasions multiple dd's are necessary to define a particular dt, but I do not think that is the case here. The members 'name' definitely defines his/her image, but do 'total posts' and 'score' define the image as well? I don't agree with this definition (no pun intended) of a DD. DDs do not define the DT (the D stands for Description). I'd agree it is rare to see more than one DT but not to see multiple DDs. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?
Al Sparber wrote: however, plug our free CSS Express Menu as it addresses many of the shortcomings in the Suckerfish approach. It also works in IE5 Mac and http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/auto_hide/index.htm Note that one of the Suckerfish shortcomings we address, we do so by forbidding people from doing sub-menus that pop out to the right of the root :-) blockquote cite=http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/auto_hide/;p but the typical script written for this purpose is sometimes not very well-written and usually does not support IE 5 Mac. So what? Well, if it were terribly difficult to support that browser, we wouldn't bother either. But for a company that writes scripts for the leading Dreamweaver menu-building systems, it was not very hard at all /p/blockquote The way I do it is that I make it *work* like in other browsers ;) http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I *do* create a *working* drop down in ie Mac (*os9*). Actually, it is a vertical one which makes the solution even more accessible in that browser since diagonal' paths are replaced with vertical ones. And my point about ie Mac earlier in this thread was about *OS9*, IMO, people using OSX do have a choice of browsers. Also, ie's OSX is a very different beast, *much* easier to deal with ;-). As a side note, you forbid people from doing sub-menus that pop out to the right of the root but you leave them with fantom links, as suckerfish does... I don't want to start anything here, it is just the wording of your article on top of what you said two days ago: I would urge Thierry to ditch the word perfect because it could be construed by some visitors as either arrogant or theatrical.. After reading your article, I thought that post needed an answer... My sincere apologies to all for this post. FYI: it took me a day to hit the send button. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly
Paul Novitski wrote: At 10/4/2006 08:49 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp and http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp While of course I agree with the intentions and results of these image-replacement techniques, I disagree with one important aspect of their implementation: the use of JavaScript. Using a client-side script to modify downloaded HTML is like editing a newspaper after the edition has hit the stands. Hi Paul, AFAIK, *all* Images Replacement techniques used to use *background* images, so I'd say it shows that authors never meant these images to be *content*. IMO, UAs should get the cleanest document possible because we can't assume who or what is the end user (what's the benefit of having machines parse drop cap images?). I know PHP is cool (I'm still mad at myself for going with ASP years ago), but I think the main rule should be to deliver *clean* documents. I believe the more presentational elements are removed from the markup the better. Not to mention, JavaScript-dependent solutions depend, duh, on client-side scripting being enabled. The conscientious developer must plan for a scriptless fallback (which you have done astutely). I'm curious to know what would be your approach to create drop caps server-side. One of the advantages of my solution is that I can rely on the layers on which the technique is based on to prevent issues. I can use JS and CSS to make sure the document always make sense no matter which layer is *off* or even if both are off. I just can't see how that could be solved through server-side scripting... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I'd also appreciate feedback on browsers support as so far I've only tested in: - ie7, - ie6, - ie5 (Win and Mac), - FF 0.8, - FF 1.5, - Opera 9, - Safari 2 --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly
Paul Novitski wrote: Re: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/a_perfect_Image_Replacement_technique.asp I wrote: The most obvious disadvantage of using JavaScript to modify markup is the inevitable delay: scripts of this nature wait till download is complete before manipulating the DOM. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see Thierry's script protecting you from unwanted images unless you disable JavaScript, which is about like burning down your house just to turn off your TV.* My understanding is that if a browser doesn't support images then it simply displays the ALT text and doesn't bother downloading the unusable image files themselves. Thierry's script downloads images (creates image tags) if JavaScript is running, no mention of whether the browser supports images. Paul, Forget *visual* browsers. What about the lowest level: no images no JS (the way Google sees our pages BTW)? With a Server-Side solution you *pollute* the document with meaningless/useless IMG elements. One of the many clever aspects of Thierry's IR technique is that, in the absence of client-side scripting, it falls back gracefully to the plain text in the markup. If the images are inserted before download instead of after download, the resultant markup is the same as it is when JavaScript executes, but the server-side solution works regardless of JS support in the client. As I said in my previous post. What markup? The image and the first character or the image only with the appropriate value for the alt attribute? Because another point to take into consideration is that in this case, the document would fail Checkpoint 2.1: http://www.hisoftware.com/cc/altquality.htm#a21 --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/6/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I would recommend somehow positioning the sub-list to line up with the upper link that makes it appear. As it is, all sub-lists align left, which makes it very unintuitive when hovering over upper-items along the right. Good point. That would also help re usability (the diagonal problem). --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Frances Berriman wrote: -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Sent: 06 October 2006 16:40 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp It's functional enough from what I can tell (been playing with it in FF), but not terribly user-friendly. Actually, this solution is more keyboard-friendly than some scripted solutions :) I wouldn't use it. It requires some serious dexterity and hand-eye co-ordination at times (as is common with pure-CSS methods). I agree, pure CSS menus are not the best when it comes to usability. My first solution is three years old and I *never* used it in real life... But I have added some extra padding on this one; as you can see, pointing device users can be off by almost 10px without losing the sub menus. Also, it is just a matter of taking care of what you're dealing with. Here I wanted the top level items to stretch across the container, but if I remove the last item (or may be two), then it would be more difficult for users to trigger the wrong sub menu as straight diagonal lines would not cross other items as much. IMO, the best would be to use this solution as a fallback for scripted methods. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Heilmann wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp How many more times do we have to prove that we can use CSS for behaviour just to realise that it was never meant for it? I agree with you, but pushing the envelop is fun and helps to learn new things... CSS behaviour is a one trick pony - everything works with pseudo selectors and those don't get applied cross-browser. In order to offer keyboard support you even have to resort to nesting things inside links which simply does not make sense semantically. What do you mean? I'm not nesting things inside links. The links do not contain anything else than *text*, I'm not even using attributes (besides href of course)... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Heilmann wrote: These are not new things. This is a dead horse that has been flogged so many times there is nothing left of it. Search CSS-D for problems with suckerfish, check cssplay.co.uk, there is nothing whatsoever creative or inventive about CSS-only menus. It is an endless circle the CSS Design community has been in ever since Eric Meyer pushed that envelope back in ... was it 2001? I believe this article: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css%20pop%20ups/default.asp is from this era. So you see that this is not new to me... presentational technology working together. Please stop giving new developers ideas that all they will ever need to know is HTML and CSS, it just is not enough. You like it or not, people ask for these types of menus. Mine was over three years old and I thought it was time to work on a new one using what I learned these last years. I don't see anything wrong with that... CSS behaviour is a one trick pony - everything works with pseudo selectors and those don't get applied cross-browser. In order to offer keyboard support you even have to resort to nesting things inside links which simply does not make sense semantically. What do you mean? I'm not nesting things inside links. The links do not contain anything else than *text*, I'm not even using attributes (besides href of course)... Hooray! And to reach the last option with a keyboard I need to tab trough ALL options of the menu - very usable that. A real keyboard navigation for a menu like this would use cursor keys and allow me to go up down left and right, spatial navigation as Opera implements it. This was a choice. Is it worst than using display:none for the only purpose of easing tabbing navigation? ;-) Anyway, it was not an exercice about keyboard naviagation, it was to make sure users do not tab through sub menu items that are *-px* to the left of the viewport. BTW, what about my question about me resorting on nesting things inside links? ;-) There is more to UI than just using web standard technologies, if you are to mimick rich user interfaces, then also follow their rules. I'd agree but most of the times with this approach, solutions lack browsers support. I know, I'm bad, I still think we should care for ie 5 (Mac and Win). And that - in its own way - is pushing the envelop ;) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Heilmann wrote: Well, you expect people to keep up with your development and come back and upgrade their implementations, as obviously you found flaws in the old one. I was talking about the look of my menu. Its functionality didn't change. I didn't upgrade its implementation, I just created a new skin. Web development requirements change constantly and being on the bleeding edge means you bleed. The best example of that is lots of amazingly cool CSS hacks allowing MSIE6 to be a good browser now causing havoc in MSIE7. I don't agree. If you do things right, there is no reason that things break later. People who got caught with IE 7 are mostly the ones who thought that plugging the presentational layer with filters was smarter than using CC comments. You can do what you want, but if you offer it and praise its amazing features people believe they can use your solutions without having to care about anything, and this is most of the time just not possible. You can't stop everybody from going with CSS solutions. If people want a CSS menu, they'll get a CSS menu. So if a solution is decent why keeping it secret? This was a choice. Is it worst than using display:none for the only purpose of easing tabbing navigation? ;-) No, you just don't use CSS for this purpose as with a menu with multi levels and lots of links tabbing is just not a usable way of navigating through it. Be consistent - if you want only mouse users to This is a point of view. Of course it depends on the amount of links to go through, but it can also take *less time* to tab through two or three sub menus than loading a whole new page by following the links in the top level items. Also, if skip links exist then there is less issue with such menu. BTW, what about my question about me resorting on nesting things inside links? ;-) Who claimed that your example does that? I was talking about CSS only solutions in general, where keyboard enabling means nesting markup invalidly in links (http://cssplay.co.uk/menu/more.html) Sorry, I thought you're talking about my solution. There is more to UI than just using web standard technologies, if you are to mimick rich user interfaces, then also follow their rules. I'd agree but most of the times with this approach, solutions lack browsers support. I know, I'm bad, I still think we should care for ie 5 (Mac and Win). And that - in its own way - is pushing the envelop ;) Not really, it is keeping outdated technology alive - like trying to connect a DVD player to a 60ies black and white TV set. If older browsers don't support certain functionality, don't offer it to them - another thing you can only do in JavaScript (unless you count conditional comments as an option): http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html I just pick one, *randomly*: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/example08.html Looks like it comes with usability issues. Also, it is not that well thought, at least mine doesn't let the user follow top level links if JS is enabled... But please *look* at the markup, how semantic is *that* thing! And how *big* is that script? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Heilmann wrote: do, it is constantly tested on all the A-level browsers, backed up by Why IE Mac didn't make the list? All these Yahoo menus I tried trigger script errors before returning a *blank* page? In my book, that goes against accessibility. It has nothing to do with your example of DVD and TV from the 60's, it has to do with real people who are stuck with OS 9. For them, ie 5 is the best (only) browser. Let's refer to them as the technology impaired... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Christian Heilmann wrote: Why IE Mac didn't make the list? All these Yahoo menus I tried trigger script errors before returning a *blank* page? These are demo pages, not implementations. I thought these demos were supposed to help developers find out how the menus render in real life? Don't get me wrong, I think this Yahoo library stuff is very good. But IMHO, it is not better to push for these widgets than pushing for CSS menus. Both come with issues; the big advantage with the latter is that because they have been around for a while developers are more aware of their caveats :) In my book, that goes against accessibility. It has nothing to do with your example of DVD and TV from the 60's, it has to do with real people who are stuck with OS 9. For them, ie 5 is the best (only) browser. Let's refer to them as the technology impaired... Don't know, my guess is that a browser that is not even supported by its vendor any longer is not really on the main Radar. The Argument that IE is the only OS9 browser is not true, iCab 3 runs nicely on OS9 and passes Acid2. Did iCab ship with the OS (honnest question, I don't know)? And is it considered an A-grade browser? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] OS9 browsers (was) *Pure* CSS drop down menu
Nick Gleitzman wrote: Did iCab ship with the OS (honnest question, I don't know)? And is it considered an A-grade browser? No. OS7/8 shipped with Netscape as the default browser until Bill Gates threw some money at Apple to help keep them afloat, at which time, and as part of the deal, IE was then also supplied with the OS. I *think* it was around the time OS9 was introduced. Thanks. That's what I thought. A-grade? Not sure what that means... But I do recall that when IE5/Mac was released, it was the browser that (then) had the best Standards support going - not that 'Standards' existed then, except to a very small minority... It's a Yahoo thing: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?
Kay Smoljak wrote: not be used for, behaviour. I've been using Suckerfish menus for the past couple of years, because they are simple, search engine friendly and lightweight. Scripted solutions can be search engine friendly too. My input: I have used Revenge of the menubar from http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/ previously with good results. The click to activate dropdown part takes some getting used to for people used to the instant flyaway dropdowns, but is actually a good approach, I think. It has the same usability issue that the one Al did a little demo for. Also, look and behavior are not the only things an author should care for. What about the *markup*? The use of semantic markup, with the least amount of attributes (id, class ...) is - IMO - the most important thing to look for in a menu. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] obj.style.backgroundImage
Christian Heilmann wrote: I'm curious to know if anyone here have successfully applied a background image to an IMG element through scripting? Have you tried to set the image to block first? Also, just do obj.style.background = 'url(bla.gif) #fff no-repeat' instead of backgroundImage Argh! I'm so stupid. I was using an_image.gif' but the file name was: an_image.jpg I'd checked the spelling of the file name *many, many* times, but totally missed the extension. It reminds me of the time when I used to write colour instead of color... :-( Duh! Thanks. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] obj.style.backgroundImage
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since no-one else has replied, perhaps I may ask why you would want to do this? I'm working on a variation of this: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/png_overlay_with_no_extra_markup.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/4/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp I would just suggest changing the perfect to a better. Because, you know, there is always room for improvement. Actually that's exactly why I called it perfect. I didn't want to use the words best or better for this very reason. A perfect solution is just a solution that *answers* well a particular problem. Improving on a perfect solution doesn't make it more perfect, it makes it better :) So in my opinion, there are plenty of room for perfect solutions, much less for better solutions and only one spot for the best solution... Argh! Writing this I just realize that the problem is not really with perfect, better or any other word but with the use of the vs. a. And I'm sure that's what you had in mind too when you wrote a better... I focused on better rather than a... I'm OK with perfect but now I can't stand the the part, so I decided to change the URL ;) Thanks --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: To nitpick, though, by most definitions perfect can't be improved upon, hence it can be perceived as a tad presumptuous to use it... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect That's interesting. I think I could have used the exact same URL to make my point ;-) As I said, more than one solution can be perfect. To take the very first definition in that document: 1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type If we're talking about Image Replacement techniques, we're talking about a few challenges to take into consideration (mostly related to Accessibility). I think *any* technique that takes care of these challenges can be called a perfect technique** Anyway, that URL should not be taken too seriously, we all know that file names and titles need to be catchy... ;) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com ** Now if there is one that also does not pollute the markup (with spans and stuff) and allows the graphic headings to be *printed* then may be this one could be called the perfect technique ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
Al Sparber wrote: From: Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To nitpick, though, by most definitions perfect can't be improved upon, hence it can be perceived as a tad presumptuous to use it... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect Reminds me of my old Osterizer food blender and its Infinite Speed setting. I would urge Thierry to ditch the word perfect because it could be construed by some visitors as either arrogant or theatrical. Nah! That word draws too much interest/attention ;) Also, I noticed that it is the *best way* to get decent feedback. Because people are more willing to look for/find flaws. I know it's risky on my side because that could trigger mean replies, but it is in the hope to rise the quality of the article, so I can live with that... On the other hand, it is an important keyword. Have you ever tried to look for the perfect FAQ page in Google? ;) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
Chris Williams wrote: How about a perfect image replacement technique rather than the... Chris, I've done that more than two hours ago (following Christian's post) :-) --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
David Dorward wrote: On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 08:49:46AM -0700, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp It suffers from the usual problem of having no text at all if images are disabled by CSS isn't. AFAIK, No. Are you experiencing that (no text no images)? In any configuration (CSS on, JS off, CSS on / JS off, etc.), you should always have either the image or the text. I also made sure that with JS on / CSS off both images and text do not appear together. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: using JS to plug IMG in headings
David Dorward wrote: Same here. David, under what test conditions did you not see text with images disabled? Were you using a simulator (like FF dev toolbar) or did you actually disable images and reload the page? I am using the FF dev toolbar, but its not that uncommon a piece of software and makes for a quick way of disabling images in the real world. David, I can't reproduce this behavior. If I disable images in FF (v0.8 and v1.5) through the Dev Toolbar or the Tools menu I still get the text... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Calling JS gurus
I'd like to get some feedback on this before I publish it and make a fool of myself ;) http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/a_possible_alternative_to_innerHTML.asp Demo page: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_moveNodes_demo.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Calling JS gurus
Hi Matthew, innerHTML is good because it's quite a bit faster than DOM methods; if you don't need to manipulate the output further, But is it safe to assume that there will no such need? As to the article, I don't really understand what you're trying to do - doesn't cloneNode() do all that and more? AFAIK, cloneNode() duplicates a node with its children or the element by itself (shallow clone). It does not help much when you want to nest/wrap all the children of that node in/with a new element. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Calling JS gurus
Michael Yeaney wrote: Actually, if you pass the optional boolean parameter to cloneNode as true, it turns into a true deep clone [1]. I've used this many times before - don't know why I didn't think of this earlier when I replied... But then you end up with a duplicate of the whole node, not just its children. See my reply as well as Christian's to Matthew. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
