Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
From: "jim sims" Opening up the problem space a bit - ignore the original symptom list. What is the toughest (engine) diagnosis (and solution) you've had to deal with? Thanks a million! capn jim Took the words right out of my mouth - I'd thought the original exercise was to produce something tough, not solve a hypothetical question as posed by Jim... L8R Skip, no engine problems, cuz still on the hard, fairing the bottom Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
How about the little tiny filter at the end of the pick-up line in the tank. Had that one happen and at the time didn't even know there was a small filter at the end of that puppy! And, of course, been there done that... Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: jim sims Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:13 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution) Hmmm, that's a *juicy* one. Hopefully everyone is benefiting - best way to learn is from *others* experience - especially when it is excruciating ;-) Opening up the problem space a bit - ignore the original symptom list. What is the toughest (engine) diagnosis (and solution) you've had to deal with? Thanks a million! capn jim On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Jaye Eldridge wrote: > We had a very similar problem on Arione last year. Thought it was a > fuel line - a pinhole or something letting air into the line. Since > the lines were rock hard and old enough to drink, had them all > replaced in San Jose Del Cabo at not small expense. Problem persisted. > A mechanic in La Paz (who spoke not a word of English, and our Spanish > was rather, um, limited, at that point) traced it a a dying solenoid - > it was slowly closing as it died - not every time, not in a consistent > manner, but definitely dying. The guy was one of those people where > watching him work made it clear that he was a freaking mechanical > genius - he very methodically traced the problem back to the source. > He replaced the solenoid and we've been good to go ever since. worth > checking. Could also be a problem with the solenoid getting current, > which he also checked. Lines are the most obvious thing to check, but > if there's nothing obviously wrong with them, I'd investigate other > possibilities before you do what we did (replacement). > > > If anyone finds themself in La Paz, Mario, at Marina Palmira, who's > become our mechanic of choice, is a great guy and really knows his > stuff. You do need to speak at least a little Spanish, though. > > > On Jul 10, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Ben Okopnik wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 06:40:42PM -0500, jim sims wrote: >>> Looking for a touch engine diagnosis problem and the solution for a >>> story I'm writing Ideally something not obvious, that might have >>> symptoms like: >>> 1) runs fine for a while >>> 2) then misses or surges >>> 3) quits >> >> Agree with Lee: air leak on the suction side of the low-pressure >> mechanical fuel pump (gets worse as the engine-mounted beastie heats >> up, >> "cures" itself when the engine is cold.) Don't ask me how I know, >> either. :) >> >> >> Ben >> -- >> OKOPNIK CONSULTING >>Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business >> Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming >> 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik >> ___ >> Liveaboard mailing list >> Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com >> To adjust your membership settings over the web >> http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard >> To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com >> The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ >> >> To search the archives >> http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org >> >> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > ___ > Liveaboard mailing list > Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com > To adjust your membership settings over the web > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > To search the archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinf
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:10:44AM -0400, SteveW wrote: > How about the little tiny filter at the end of the pick-up line in the tank. > Had that one happen and at the time didn't even know there was a small > filter at the end of that puppy! And, of course, been there done that... Argh! BTDT, still got the T-shirt. :) Windless passage from Mayaguana to the Turks and Caicos; the engine runs fine up to 1850RPM, chokes and dies within 2 minutes of going to 1900. Back off, runs fine. Normal-seeming fuel flow all the way up to the HP pump... took most of a day of this before the light in my brain went on. Just before getting on the banks, I disconnected the fuel line and stuck it into a 5-gallon diesel jug; used that to get into Sapodilla Bay, with the engine running just fine. Then, with gritted teeth, I took apart nearly the entire aft end of the boat I was on to get to the top of the tank, pulled out the intake tube, and found what I just *knew* I would find there: an intake filter, packed with algae and other kinds of accumulated crap. I ranted about it for most of a week. "What kind of a moron would do something as monumentally STUPID as this" Boy, was I mad. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
Hi All, I had a similar experience, and after all the angst and anger, and the help of a really talented diesel man, learned it was a nearly plugged exhaust water injection elbow. Turns out that they accumulate soot that cakes onto the inside, slowly building up until the back pressure builds to the point the engine loses power and finally stops after a short time running. It will readily re-start, then stop again...and so on Good luck. Gary ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
This whole line of problems and solutions would make a great article for a sailing magazine or the Seven Seas Cruising Association. We might name it "The Intermittent Engine." Could even save someone's boat or life. Certainly save people's sanity. Anyone have any more thinks to look at or check when you are faced with an engine that runs just some of the time? Lee Huddleston s/v Truelove ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
It seems like all the tough ones are fuel related... (on a gasoline engine) I had a warped carburetor housing. Started OK, ran for a long time. Sometimes stalled - never restarted while warm. Solution - don't use gasoline engines :-) I had one that was mysterious until I looked directly at the engine while it was running. Slightly corroded blanking cap (I don't know the proper word - it fills a hole that would otherwise have a connection screwed in) in the cooling jacket of the engine. When it was cold or running smoothly it was fine. Load the engine heavily it would overheat for a while then settle down - seemingly at a higher running temperature. When I looked at the engine running I saw a tiny jet of steam coming out when I started running heavily, after a while it stopped (I'm still not sure exactly why). Ease off the load & it stopped. Simple (& cheap) to replace, then everything was OK. Sailors miss out on all this fun! Hugh. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
On Mon, 2011-07-11 at 11:51 -0400, Gary wrote: > it was a nearly plugged exhaust > water injection elbow. Turns out that they accumulate soot that cakes > onto > the inside, slowly building up until the back pressure builds to the > point > the engine loses power and finally stops after a short time running. > It > will readily re-start, then stop again...and so on > > Good luck. > > Gary I understand that problem happens when the engine is run under a light load and never gets to operating temp. Some folks run the engine once a month at the dock for a short time, then shut it down thinking they are doing something good. Turns out it is not so good. Battery charging and refrigeration loads do the same thing. The engine never gets hot enough to completely burn the fuel and it collects, layer upon layer until .. . > -- S/V ORYOKI Philip & Marilyn Lange AE4OVKD4JRC Currently on the hill - Beaufort NC "There's no point in making a plan if you're not going to pretend to follow it!" ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:01:46 -0500, you wrote: >This whole line of problems and solutions would make a great article for a >sailing magazine or the Seven Seas Cruising Association. We might name it >"The Intermittent Engine." Could even save someone's boat or life. >Certainly save people's sanity. Anyone have any more thinks to look at or >check when you are faced with an engine that runs just some of the time? > >Lee Huddleston >s/v Truelove > Someone once said that if you think it sounds like horses, you should check out whether it is horses first before you go looking for zebras. So the first thing to check is those things that would be the most common which were eliminated from the original question. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
Similar scenario but at least in-shore on the L.I. Sound. I checked everything I could see, checked everything else, and was spitting nails by the time I limped into a marina on our route which promised a decent diesel mechanic. After I described the problem, he asked whether I checked all the various filters in the fuel system so of course I answered in the affirmative. When he asked about the one at the end of the pick-up tube inside the tank the look on my face must have been priceless. I didn't know there was one!!! Fortunately this was on my old boat and the top of the tank was accessible with a minimum of bodily contortions. Sure enough, he pulled the tube and there was an entire bio-system living in/on that filter. Fifteen minutes later, a new filter installed, we fired her up and she ran like a purring kitten. S Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:10 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution) On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:10:44AM -0400, SteveW wrote: > How about the little tiny filter at the end of the pick-up line in the > tank. > Had that one happen and at the time didn't even know there was a small > filter at the end of that puppy! And, of course, been there done that... Argh! BTDT, still got the T-shirt. :) Windless passage from Mayaguana to the Turks and Caicos; the engine runs fine up to 1850RPM, chokes and dies within 2 minutes of going to 1900. Back off, runs fine. Normal-seeming fuel flow all the way up to the HP pump... took most of a day of this before the light in my brain went on. Just before getting on the banks, I disconnected the fuel line and stuck it into a 5-gallon diesel jug; used that to get into Sapodilla Bay, with the engine running just fine. Then, with gritted teeth, I took apart nearly the entire aft end of the boat I was on to get to the top of the tank, pulled out the intake tube, and found what I just *knew* I would find there: an intake filter, packed with algae and other kinds of accumulated crap. I ranted about it for most of a week. "What kind of a moron would do something as monumentally STUPID as this" Boy, was I mad. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
My only question is whether or not engines are actually another form of intelligent life. When you don't really need them, they'll run fine! But I'm convinced they can hear our thoughts and when we've got that "oh boy, we could get in trouble here, we better start the engine" the engine in question has an "ahah" moment and decides this would be a great time to pay you back for some previous real or imagined abuse... Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Lee Huddleston Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 12:01 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution) This whole line of problems and solutions would make a great article for a sailing magazine or the Seven Seas Cruising Association. We might name it "The Intermittent Engine." Could even save someone's boat or life. Certainly save people's sanity. Anyone have any more thinks to look at or check when you are faced with an engine that runs just some of the time? Lee Huddleston s/v Truelove ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
Hi, Steve - On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 01:31:58PM -0400, SteveW wrote: > > Fortunately this was on my old boat and the top of the tank was accessible > with a minimum of bodily contortions. Sure enough, he pulled the tube and > there was an entire bio-system living in/on that filter. Fifteen minutes > later, a new filter installed, we fired her up and she ran like a purring > kitten. My solution is never to have one there in the first place. Any bottleneck in your fuel system should be accessible and serviceable - especially when you're at sea, in big waves (take my word for that one...) From my perspective, a filter, or even a strainer, inside a fuel tank is just plain bad design. I recall a very experienced cruiser in another group writing up his ideal tank setup: a large-diameter pickup that goes down to an indentation in the bottom (yep, it _will_ collect crud. That's what you want it to do so you can get it out!), with a Lexan access cover on the side of the tank bolted over a Neoprene gasket so you can both see the inside and clean out the tank whenever necessary. Add Norm's fuel system to that, and you can't get any more reliable unless you go with an electric drive. :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 01:36:26PM -0400, SteveW wrote: > My only question is whether or not engines are actually another form of > intelligent life. [LOL] Steve, that one is going into my quote file. Thank you. (And they are, too. A particularly mean, vicious, sneaky form of life. Hey - did we just discover an alien invasion???) > When you don't really need them, they'll run fine! But > I'm convinced they can hear our thoughts and when we've got that "oh boy, we > could get in trouble here, we better start the engine" the engine in > question has an "ahah" moment and decides this would be a great time to pay > you back for some previous real or imagined abuse... A parallel case, from the world of computers (quoted from the alt.sysadmin.recovery USENET group): So I'm waiting around after hours here at BFC, because we've got a bad 4mm DAT drive attached to the file server in our lab, and the daily and weekly backups are therefore suspect. Also the disk drives are making that sound which says, "I'm a happy drive. I'm a cheerful drive. I'm smiling at you because I'm grinding my spindles into microscopic dust and there's not a single thing you can do about it. I'm going to fail. I'm going to do it soon. Or later. I'm not telling. Probably soon, because I've been chatting with the DAT drive two hops up the SCSI chain, and he tells me that he's been ill, so if I fail *now*, you'll have no recent backups. That's why I'm happy. I'm in control. I want a goat. And candles. Black ones. Pray, human. Pray that I'm in a good mood. PRAY, DAMMIT, ON YOUR KNEES, YOU LIMACEOUS BIT OF MEATWARE!" I digress. -- Carl Jacobs [grin] Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem (andsolution)
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:01:46AM -0500, Lee Huddleston wrote: > This whole line of problems and solutions would make a great article for a > sailing magazine or the Seven Seas Cruising Association. We might name it > "The Intermittent Engine." Could even save someone's boat or life. I recall these really great troubleshooting charts for cars that a publisher (Chilton's, maybe?) used to include with their car repair manuals back in the late 70s. Haven't seen them in ages, but those things had clearly been created by some truly knowledgeable and experienced mechanic; there was a lifetime of learning in that single fold-out. > Certainly save people's sanity. Anyone have any more thinks to look at or > check when you are faced with an engine that runs just some of the time? Despite my earlier quips, diesels are usually quite well behaved (gas engines are, in the PG version, ladies of low-rent, negotiable virtue.) The problem is that we sailors ask them to jump through a variety of hoops - usually with a history of poor maintenance behind them and often while they're laying over on their ear. The ones that are installed in cars and trucks don't see nearly the range of problems that the marine versions do. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
Recently in Norfolk a neighbor got salt water in his fresh water and then overflow from the radiator cap. Turned out to be a rust-blocked water nozzle in the exhaust elbow bulding up the seawater back pressure until the salt water entered the fresh water at the fancy rubber elbow on the heat exchanger that is supposed to keep the two waters seperate. A new exhaust elbow fixed it. There Oughtta be a Law that exhaust elbows be made only of stainless... Norm > Hi All, > I had a similar experience, and after all the angst and anger, and the help > of a really talented diesel man, learned it was a nearly plugged exhaust > water injection elbow. Turns out that they accumulate soot that cakes onto > the inside, slowly building up until the back pressure builds to the point > the engine loses power and finally stops after a short time running. It > will readily re-start, then stop again...and so on > > Good luck. > > Gary > > ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
Finally got my email working properly (I hope) and came across the below message from Ben. To answer your question - "What kind of moron..." - in my case it was Mercedes-Benz, The diesel fuel pipes, both suction and return, attach to the bottom of the fuel tank, but the suction one is covered by a screen. After a period of time (the car is a 30-year-old 240D) the screen plugs up. The quick cure is to simply switch rubber hoses on the two pipes in the engine compartment and very soon buy a sack of $4.00 primary filters. After changing a bunch of primary filters, a five-minute job at the side of the road, the tank will be clean. Removing the strainer to clean it involves making a special tool to drive a 3/4" drive socket (for the large size hex fitting carrying the strainer) using a 3/8" drive because the strainer is right above the drive shaft. Of course, one could remove the tank too... > Just before getting on the banks, I disconnected the fuel line and stuck > it into a 5-gallon diesel jug; used that to get into Sapodilla Bay, with > the engine running just fine. Then, with gritted teeth, I took apart > nearly the entire aft end of the boat I was on to get to the top of the > tank, pulled out the intake tube, and found what I just *knew* I would > find there: an intake filter, packed with algae and other kinds of > accumulated crap. I ranted about it for most of a week. "What kind of a > moron would do something as monumentally STUPID as this" Boy, was I > mad. :) > > > > Ben > -- > ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:51:40PM -0400, banders...@earthlink.net wrote: > > > Recently in Norfolk a neighbor got salt water in his fresh water and then > overflow from the radiator cap. > > Turned out to be a rust-blocked water nozzle in the exhaust elbow bulding > up the seawater back pressure until the salt water entered the fresh water > at the fancy rubber elbow on the heat exchanger that is supposed to keep > the two waters seperate. > > A new exhaust elbow fixed it. > > There Oughtta be a Law that exhaust elbows be made only of stainless... Speaking of which - I need to replace the one I have on my Perkins 4-108. *Is* there a place that makes them out of stainless without charging the US national debt for the privilege of owning such jewelry? Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:56:47PM -0400, banders...@earthlink.net wrote: > > Finally got my email working properly (I hope) and came across the below > message from Ben. > > To answer your question - "What kind of moron..." - in my case it was > Mercedes-Benz, Oh my God... seems that nothing is proof against idiots. They're too ingenious. :) > The diesel fuel pipes, both suction and return, attach to the bottom of the > fuel tank, but the suction one is covered by a screen. > > After a period of time (the car is a 30-year-old 240D) the screen plugs up. > The quick cure is to simply switch rubber hoses on the two pipes in the > engine compartment and very soon buy a sack of $4.00 primary filters. > After changing a bunch of primary filters, a five-minute job at the side of > the road, the tank will be clean. Well, at least it's not happening at sea - and good thing that it's so accessible! Frankly, it wouldn't be such a disaster if the tops of boat fuel tanks were generally more accessible. Still wouldn't be good, mind you. > Removing the strainer to clean it involves making a special tool to drive a > 3/4" drive socket (for the large size hex fitting carrying the strainer) > using a 3/8" drive because the strainer is right above the drive shaft. Of > course, one could remove the tank too... Ugh. I can sorta see the kind of thought process that makes them do it, but it's really short-term thinking. Bad design. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 13:51 -0400, banders...@earthlink.net wrote: > There Oughtta be a Law that exhaust elbows be made only of > stainless... > > Norm I had two (2) stainless elbows. Both were full of holes within 4 years. They were sold by Beta Marine. Be careful about more laws. Potty Patrols are bad enough. Philip -- S/V ORYOKI Philip & Marilyn Lange AE4OVKD4JRC Currently on the hill - Beaufort NC "There's no point in making a plan if you're not going to pretend to follow it!" ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 02:24:06PM -0400, Philip wrote: > On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 13:51 -0400, banders...@earthlink.net wrote: > > There Oughtta be a Law that exhaust elbows be made only of > > stainless... > > > > Norm > > I had two (2) stainless elbows. Both were full of holes within 4 years. > They were sold by Beta Marine. Hmm, that reminds me (today's posts here seem to be like that. :) I've got a friend who is looking into replacing his engine with a Beta Marine. Anyone here have good or bad experiences with these? (and I am indeed noting the bit about the SS elbows from them; thanks, Phillip.) > Be careful about more laws. Potty Patrols are bad enough. I think Norm is speaking of Higher Laws. :) "Thereoughtabealaw" (that's one word, please note - similar to the Spanish 'ojala', and close to its Arabic roots) is a desire for rightness, justice, and beauty to occur in the world, not for Man to stick his hands in and stir things up randomly (i.e., pass Yet Another Law). :) Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
Somebody wrote: >> I had two (2) stainless elbows. Both were full of holes within 4 >> years. --- "Stainless" is exactly that, Stain-Less. Depends on the grade. 304 (18-8) is basically useless in a marine environment. 308/9 is normally used for burners. 316L should be only choice for marine applications. Lew ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 14:43 -0400, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > (and I am indeed noting the bit about the SS elbows from them; thanks, > Phillip.) Beta no longer sells them. Their exhaust elbows are now cast aluminum. -- S/V ORYOKI Philip & Marilyn Lange AE4OVKD4JRC Currently on the hill - Beaufort NC "There's no point in making a plan if you're not going to pretend to follow it!" ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] looking for tough engine diagnosis problem(andsolution)
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:11:06PM -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote: > "Stainless" is exactly that, Stain-Less. > > Depends on the grade. > > 304 (18-8) is basically useless in a marine environment. > > 308/9 is normally used for burners. > > 316L should be only choice for marine applications. Nah; blades used in a marine environment should be 420 or 420H. Austenitic steels can't be hardened enough to be much use in blades. Also, 316L is only really necessary if the piece of steel is to be welded, otherwise 316 is just fine. For an exhaust system, you might want 316T1, which has improved heat resistance (though I think that's heat-to-softening or heat-to-melting rather than heat-to-corrosion, since the whole point of 316L--and L grades in general--is that they can be welded without compromising the corrosion resistance). Cheers, Kris -- Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
