Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 12:12 19/05/2001, Robin Houston wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:30:28PM +0100, Barry Pretsell wrote: It sounds like a good idea (must be better than having 3 editions of Programming Perl) and I'm tempted to give it a go, so any Safari subscribers out there with an opinion? Don't forget the ever-fabulous http://corvin.spb.ru/ Er do you _really_ want to advertise that on a list that contains people who work for O'Reilly? Dave... [currently trying to get _his_ book removed from such a repository] -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 01:46 20/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote: On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 07:20:31AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: Who here has written a book? Simon and Dave at least. It's not easy, is it? You're asking the wrong guy. I don't write books for money, I write them to contribute information. Don't think anyone writes technical books for money. If they do, then they're in for a big shock. Having said that tho', it _is_ nice to get at least some financial recompense for the months of next-to-no social life. This is why, unlike some people, I don't blatantly plug my book at the end of every mail. :) What. Like below Dave... [thinking for some time that it's about time for a new .sig anyway] -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Buffy - Argh!
For some reason, on Friday night Sky One, NTL and my VCR all conspired against me to give me a recording of Buffy and Angel with perfect picture and no sound. I'm guessing that's not how they were intended to be seen. If anyone can lend me a recording at some time this week I'd be most grateful. Cheers, Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 17:28 19/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Sat, 19 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: Robin Houston writes: Don't forget the ever-fabulous http://corvin.spb.ru/ I'd also like to say that I'm pretty disgusted that the Perlmongers, of all people, would advocate pirating the Camel. Yeah, way to thank Larry! I'm not entirely sure that anyone was actively advocating piracy. I disagree. IMO, posting a link to site containing pirate copies of books _is_ advocating piracy. YMMV. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 00:18 20/05/2001, Dean S Wilson wrote: I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves you wide open to rampant copying... A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
At 00:06 20/05/2001, James Powell wrote: On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:00:38AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio. Ahh Sara Cox - as deserving of her position in the FHM top 100 women as she is of her £750K out of the license fee for two years blathering. I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was simply by looking at a photo. Dave... [disgruntled] -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. Why do Manning sell their books online as pdf files? and do they plan to stop it now that rampant copying is taking place? Barry - Original Message - From: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it? At 00:18 20/05/2001, Dean S Wilson wrote: I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves you wide open to rampant copying... A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 10:14 20/05/2001, Barry Pretsell wrote: A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. Why do Manning sell their books online as pdf files? and do they plan to stop it now that rampant copying is taking place? Two very good questions. But ones that are better addressed to Manning. I'll certainly be passing them on later today. I'll let you know what the responses are. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. Just 'cause no one would ever treat you like a sex object... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Piracy (was Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?)
On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 17:28 19/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Sat, 19 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: Robin Houston writes: Don't forget the ever-fabulous http://xx.xxx.xx/ I'd also like to say that I'm pretty disgusted that the Perlmongers, of all people, would advocate pirating the Camel. Yeah, way to thank Larry! I'm not entirely sure that anyone was actively advocating piracy. I disagree. IMO, posting a link to site containing pirate copies of books _is_ advocating piracy. YMMV. I think that this is probably down to a difference in the way that we apprehend the meaning of the phrase 'advocating piracy', but on reflection I can see that it could be understood like that. There is an increasing ambiguity in peoples attitude to 'soft crime' these days, I would, say which ranges from Intellectual Property theft to buying smuggled booze and fags to paying tradesmen 'Cash in Hand' to buying Hear'Say records - because the final victim is detached from the perpetrator by a chain of consequences it easy to do this stuff with your conscience intact. I'd love to blame Thatcher for it. /J\
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, 20 May 2001, Barry Pretsell wrote: A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. Why do Manning sell their books online as pdf files? and do they plan to stop it now that rampant copying is taking place? O'Reillly sell their books as HTML on cds ... 'rampant copying' of that happens too .. but I doubt it harms them much. Same as software really. Except the software idiots haven't quite got it yet. There are two numbers to juggle: The number of people who would have actually bought your product, but now don't because they have obtained a pirate copy. The other one is the number of people who wouldn't have ordinarily bought your product, but having had a pirate copy, buy a real copy next time you publish something. It only harms your business if A exceeds B by a significant anount. Most people who would have actually bought a real one .. actually buy a real one. Most dodgy copies are kept by people who wouldn't have bought one anyway. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 00:06 20/05/2001, James Powell wrote: On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:00:38AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio. Ahh Sara Cox - as deserving of her position in the FHM top 100 women as she is of her £750K out of the license fee for two years blathering. I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. Although of course everyone objects most vociferously when Cosmo or some similar magazines produce a list of 'The Worlds Sexiest Men'. :) And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was simply by looking at a photo. Its in the eyes, Dave, its in the eyes. Dave... [disgruntled] Yeah, we noticed. Bad Hangover ?-) /J\
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 00:06 20/05/2001, James Powell wrote: On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:00:38AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio. Ahh Sara Cox - as deserving of her position in the FHM top 100 women as she is of her £750K out of the license fee for two years blathering. I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. Don't think you're in that much of a minority. But it seems top-shelf magazines are becoming more acceptable in some circles these days. I suspect the current 'Lad's' magazines phase is a backlash against the crazy political correctness of the 80's .. hopefully the whole thing will settle down eventually. I don't particularly care that much about it. The women in things like FHM are most certainly in there by choice and doing rather nicely from the whole thing thankyou. They are of course brainless bimbettes but thats another matter. I do find it rather objectionable is having them learing off the counter of every petrol station and newsagent you go to, when they should be on a nice high shelf somewhere. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
I suspect the current 'Lad's' magazines phase is a backlash against the crazy political correctness of the 80's .. hopefully the whole thing will settle down eventually. [snip] I do find it rather objectionable is having them learing off the counter of every petrol station and newsagent you go to, when they should be on a nice high shelf somewhere. see i dont mind 'lad's' magazines being covered in naked women, because i mean thats kinda what makes up the content of the magazine. but im very irritated by the fact that technology magazines are using sex to sell themselves. i have a copy of 'stuff' and 't3' and both have semi naked models holding the gadgets and things being reviewed. i find it very annoying, because im only interested in the gadgets. if i wanted mild porn then i'd buy FHM! duncan
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 00:18 20/05/2001, Dean S Wilson wrote: I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves you wide open to rampant copying... A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website. ugh .. yes .. But do you think it actually harms sales? ... ?? would any of the people who downloaded the PDF have actually bought a real copy? ... doubt it. Piracy is a difficult thing to estimate the effects of. I have in the past had a pirate copy of O'Reillys Network Bookshelf ... but a) I would not have paid for the CD in the first place and b) Iliked what I saw so much that I went on to buy a whole bookcase full of O'Reilly stuff. Its the same as the software industry who discover some high school kid with 500 ripped off playstation games and promptly claim thats 20,000 dollars of lost sales .. like the kid would have spent 20,000 dollars on games. So yeah .. try and get the site pulled .. (shouldn't be that hard) but don;t worry too much I doubt its hurting your pocket in reallity. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 10:47:43AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I suspect the current 'Lad's' magazines phase is a backlash against the crazy political correctness of the 80's .. hopefully the whole thing will settle down eventually. I don't particularly care that much about it. The women in things like FHM are most certainly in there by choice and doing rather nicely from the whole thing thankyou. They are of course brainless bimbettes but thats another matter. I do find it rather objectionable is having them learing off the counter of every petrol station and newsagent you go to, when they should be on a nice high shelf somewhere. I seem to recall some comic giving a rant to the effect of Used to be just the magazines on the top shelf, everyone knew where they were, everyone knew what they were for. Then these FHM, Loaded, etc though - huh? What are they, for blokes who aren't sure if they want to masturbate? Most of the readership I'm aware of don't recall that much of the eighties anyway... Martin
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 09:10:02PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: I'm curious what the perceived payback is on books: kudos on the one hand, benefit to humankind on the other, and then cash. How does it all stack up? The kudos is fun but unless you write something completely earth-shattering, you're quickly out of fashion. I see the cash as an incentive to get books written that might not otherwise have been written, because again, unless you're writing something earth-shattering or coming out with something new every six months or so, sales will dry up. Royalties are bonuses, they buy goodies: a holiday here, a new computer there. And soon, I expect, I'll not be getting so much in from Beg. Perl, and they'll be buying jewellery for the other half or video games. I do it for the benefit - Beg. Perl was written to help one single individual learn Perl, and if other people have learnt Perl from it, that's a bonus; the book I'm writing at the moment, I'm doing it because I want there to be a really damned good book about XS out there, and there isn't. If I'm going to write a book, it's because I *really really* want to write it, so the money is in a sense immaterial. So why don't I forego the cash and do it all under an open publication license? Well, firstly, I do: I spent rather a lot of time helping fix up the Perl documentation, and now I'm planning a bunch of books under the OPL. But if a publisher's going to throw money at me for writing something, I'm far more likely to sit down and get on with it, rather than getting bored and hacking Perl instead. Well, that's the plan, anyway. Sometimes it doesn't work like that, either. :) -- The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices, Volume 17, Number 5
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 11:23:05AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I have in the past had a pirate copy of O'Reillys Network Bookshelf ... but a) I would not have paid for the CD in the first place and b) Iliked what I saw so much that I went on to buy a whole bookcase full of O'Reilly stuff. I'm *sure* at some level, the publishers know this, but they'd rather not admit it. :) If you release a book as a computer file, *IT WILL GET COPIED*. Don't think they're too stupid not to realise this. But people like having nice bound paper copies of things. Having it on line just isn't the same. That's why O'Reilly publishes copies of things that *are* freely available, like the Linux Network Administrator's Guide. -- People who love sausages, respect the law, and work with IT standards shouldn't watch any of them being made. - Peter Gutmann
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 08:49:56AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: I disagree. IMO, posting a link to site containing pirate copies of books _is_ advocating piracy. YMMV. Here is how to do it. Now *you* have a choice. Have you read A treatise on the construction of locks? -- The C Programming Language -- A language which combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of assembly language.
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
Dave Cross [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *I disagree. IMO, posting a link to site containing pirate copies of books *_is_ advocating piracy. YMMV. In a world that advocates Napster, this is no different. Someone buys a copy of the book, scans it in and shares it with the world. Outrage by the author is not any different than outrage by a musical artist. There was an interesting interview with Bill Joy at the P2P conference iirc that discussed this sort of piracy and Joy specifically talked about books being the most worrisome part of this type of activity/technology. The royalties are so small that I doubt if it would make any major difference in anyones bank account for the people who buy books will still buy them and the people that don't just might go out and purchase a copy. You write a book because you think there is something you know that others might benefit from as noone gets rich in this business. Why, I think Jarkko and I went to dinner once on his royalty cheque from ORA. You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is stealing copies of your book on line. e.
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:27:39AM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is stealing copies of your book on line. Ah, good old piracy is theft analogy - what would we do without you? I think I'll start reloading that russian site until I've stolen all O'Reilly's copies of the Camel book - then I'll have a monopoly and can take over the world (of Perl)! Seriously, I don't advocate copyright violation, but I much prefer it to theft or high sea piracy if people are going to commit crimes. -- Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- +447966251290 The day is seven hours and fifteen minutes old, and already it's crippled with the weight of my evasions, deceit, and downright lies
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:15:44PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo wrote: Seriously, I don't advocate copyright violation, but I much prefer it to theft or high sea piracy if people are going to commit crimes. I always found arms trafficking far more fun. Although I supposed nowadays we should be shipping the DeCCS perl code around in .sigs rather than the perl RSA code, as the former seems to be much more successful at getting up people's noses these days. Nicholas Clark
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
At 13:27 20/05/2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is stealing copies of your book on line. True. But just so as we know where we all stand. I have only ever used Napster to find copies of unavailable music. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
At 10:52 20/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote: I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. Although of course everyone objects most vociferously when Cosmo or some similar magazines produce a list of 'The Worlds Sexiest Men'. :) Ooh, look! Look! They're doing it to. Therefore it _must_ be alright! Personally I find it just as objectionable, but funnily enough you don't it anywhere near as much. And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was simply by looking at a photo. Its in the eyes, Dave, its in the eyes. See, I find it's in the personality. Which doesn't come across too well in glossy magazine. Dave... [disgruntled] Yeah, we noticed. Bad Hangover ?-) No. That was yesterday. Today I'm just ranting at the world for no good reason. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
I bought 3 CDs yesterday, about 32 quids worth . I downloaded 2 Napster tracks last week. I object to paying 3.99 gbp (for a single), or 12.99gbp (for an album track) to just get one song. However, if I hear another track from those artists, and like it, I will probably get the full album. I also use Napster (when I'm working somewhere with a big pipe) to get digital copies of music that I've already paid for analogue copies of. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2001 17:05 Subject: Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it? At 13:27 20/05/2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is stealing copies of your book on line. True. But just so as we know where we all stand. I have only ever used Napster to find copies of unavailable music. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 00:06 20/05/2001, James Powell wrote: On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:00:38AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio. Ahh Sara Cox - as deserving of her position in the FHM top 100 women as she is of her £750K out of the license fee for two years blathering. I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in this way. Indeed. I just thought Neil's reaction was funny. And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was simply by looking at a photo. With you all the way here. -- Piers Cawley www.iterative-software.com
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
Sunday, May 20, 2001, 3:19:47 AM, Dave Cross wrote: DC And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was DC simply by looking at a photo. This is really two questions: 1) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like to have a relationship with? (No) 2) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like to have sex with?(Yes) -- mike
Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
At 20:50 20/05/2001, Mike Jarvis wrote: Sunday, May 20, 2001, 3:19:47 AM, Dave Cross wrote: DC And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was DC simply by looking at a photo. This is really two questions: 1) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like to have a relationship with? (No) 2) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like to have sex with?(Yes) OK. Well that's where I'm getting confused then. By believing the sex is also a relationship (however fleeting!) I think that the answer to 2 is also 'No' :) Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugAdvertise your book here. Ask me how!/plug
Re: [OT] Cordelia (was Re: They are all vampires!)
On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 06:40:32AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: Speaking of vampires, you've got a treat coming up with Angel. After the exploitative tv show there was a lull of a week, and then ... Boobapalooza! You boys will be capturing plenty of stills from the season-ending shows. And how, exactly, is this off topic? dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Pancakes is the better part of valor- Toothgnip
