[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
Dear Vance, Art, Stewart, Stuart and All, How nice it would be indeed, Vance, if we could but sleep it off, wake up to find it has all been a bad dream. It is a bad dream, a living nightmare for so many people out there, troops and civilians. It is not a subject for this list, but I have to admit that I could not find it in myself to wish people a happy new year, on this list, or on the French list, and really believe my words. I shall not say here, who I think is to blame, but the events since the invasion have unravelled like a predictable Shakespearian tragedy. However, we are not a zone of political discussion, and that question might not, indeed, be relevant to our list. What does seem to be relevant, however, is that Baghdad had an important school of Oudists. Indeed, according to Wikipedia, it was the place of political asylum chosen by the Turkish Oudist, Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar, when fleeing from political oppression in Turkey*. There he set up a renowned lute school, in which Mounir Bachir (1930-1997) was his pupil http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Mounir_Bachir . The situation seems complex, as the great historic centre of the Oud appears to have been Mossul, and the most famous early musicians seem to have been Kurds. Indeed, Mounir Bachir, himself came from Mossul, so that the Baghdad school would perhaps have been a meeting of two great Oud traditions. I have no idea how much the Kurdish Oud players suffered under Baghdad rule. I imagine that in free Kurdish areas, perhaps the Oud is still thriving at the moment. Even the Baghdad Oud school seems to have suffered from dictatorship : Rahim Alhaj, pupil of Mounir Bachir is said to have fled Iraq for America, Albuquerque, even before the war. 'He was imprisoned twice by the regime of Saddam Hussein, in part for refusing to compose musical tributes to that regime's military adventures during the 1980's. http://www.rahimalhaj.com/news4.html. I also see that Ahmed Mukhtar, coming from the Baghdad school, was chosen by the UN with sixteen other musicians from all over the world to release a CD for the benefit of the victims of terrorism and wars. (-- ). He also teaches Arabic music theory and percussion in London colleges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mukhtar. Did he flee the dictatorship, or the war? I don't know. Perhaps a new Oud school will develop out of all this distruction, in London and even ironically in America. Viewed from this narrow angle of lute playing, the situation may appear complex; but however much music and musicians may suffer under dictatorship, there is no doubt they certainly don't thrive in the midst of war and barbary. I think, legitimately, on this list we can have a thought for our fellow Oudists who still remain in the civil- war zones of Iraq, and particularly the Baghdad school. Let us hope that what a few heads of state began in 2002 will not result in an end to that wonderful luth school, even if it may survive in London and in Albuquerque -- I will admit that reducing my thoughts to the protection of Oudists seems very selfish coming from a lute player, but as a member of the lute list, I do not feel that I can allow myself, here, to extend my thoughts further. Best regards to all lutists, luthists, and oudists Anthony PS *Please, fellow Turkish Oudists do not think I am criticizing your country. I honestly don't know what the exact circumstances were that caused Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar's departure. Le 27 janv. 07 =E0 04:19, vance wood a ecrit : Why don't you go sleep it off Arto? - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people are killed EVERY day! Human beings like you or me. This is one the very rare cases of a superpover sending its military to occupy a state after the second world war... The guy and his country is bound to that mess for a long, LONG time. And the same guy took care of taking the USA out of the so called western values by his concentration camps and accepting the torture. Even in the legistlation of the USA there seems to be something like light torture nowadays... Horrible! To me the modern USA represents a new historical period of gettig out of the the times of the so called Enlightment, the time where human rights were taken seriously. And now we have come back to the Dark Ages again? Or? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
Thank you, Anthony, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking summary. I believe musicians caught up in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict also have their share of problems, like oudist Samir Joubran, for example, who cannot perform in most of the Arab world because he is an Israeli citizen. I have met two different Israeli singers (both women, and their names escape me at the moment) who have had long- term working relationships with Palestinian musicians. One is here in France, the other in Rome. The organization I'm playing for now, J.A.DE, was founded to demonstrate the many links among Mediterranean peoples in music, poetry and dance. A lofty perhaps even naive proposal for some, but it is something we can do. Doc Rossi To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] a couple of questions about home-made bridges
(Arto's occasional off-topic posts are fine with me.) 1) I've just glued on a very simple bridge. As usual, I didn't think it through. The outer strings line up well enough along the fingerboard and I think the strings are the right height. But I've made the holes on the bridge far too far apart for each course. So the first question is: is there some trick or bodge to drill some holes on a bridge while it's still glued on? (Something that doesn't require an obscure and expensive tool.) 2) If I do have to take the bridge off, I wonder if there are any important principles that even the simplest bridge should follow. My bridge is not much more than a strip of wood about about 1.3cms thick. (I think the height is OK). Would it be better to have a bridge with a bigger area - for a stronger joint and more area to transmit sound? (But early guitars have small bridges?) Thanks To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute Politics, was Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
Arto, lest you lose lutenistic perspective: I have made an arrangement of a Swedish political folk-song http://turovsky.org/music/Tungor2.ogg by the immortal Fred Åckerström, for your lutenistic benefit: http://www.polyhymnion.org/lieder/scandinavian.html #12. This way you (or anyone) could have the best of both worlds, and fulfill both duties- cultural and civic. RT - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people are killed EVERY day! Human beings like you or me. This is one the very rare cases of a superpover sending its military to occupy a state after the second world war... The guy and his country is bound to that mess for a long, LONG time. And the same guy took care of taking the USA out of the so called western values by his concentration camps and accepting the torture. Even in the legistlation of the USA there seems to be something like light torture nowadays... Horrible! To me the modern USA represents a new historical period of gettig out of the the times of the so called Enlightment, the time where human rights were taken seriously. And now we have come back to the Dark Ages again? Or? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
I saw a news segment on Egyptian oudist (is that a word?) Simon Shaheen collaborating with an Isreali violinist (I think it was Shlomo Mintz, but don't recall). I wish there was more of that in the popular news media. Kudos to your efforts, Doc. Eugene - Original Message - From: Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:51 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Thank you, Anthony, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking summary. I believe musicians caught up in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict also have their share of problems, like oudist Samir Joubran, for example, who cannot perform in most of the Arab world because he is an Israeli citizen. I have met two different Israeli singers (both women, and their names escape me at the moment) who have had long- term working relationships with Palestinian musicians. One is here in France, the other in Rome. The organization I'm playing for now, J.A.DE, was founded to demonstrate the many links among Mediterranean peoples in music, poetry and dance. A lofty perhaps even naive proposal for some, but it is something we can do. Doc Rossi To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: a couple of questions about home-made bridges
Are you dealing with an instrument that you don't want to ruin, or is it an instrument that is impossible to ruin. Thanks for the reply. I'd always go to a professional maker for repairs on a good instrument. I'm just playing around with an inexpensive oud that was given as a present. The bridge popped off years ago and the instrument has just been lying around. The pegs work so it's capable of being tuned up and played. I want to have a go at plectrum-style lute playing.. I mean no offence, but if you have a good Lute you might be well advised to at least get Lundberg's book on historical Lute building and learn a little about bridges and their relationship with the sound board and how they are designed etc. VW - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] a couple of questions about home-made bridges (Arto's occasional off-topic posts are fine with me.) 1) I've just glued on a very simple bridge. As usual, I didn't think it through. The outer strings line up well enough along the fingerboard and I think the strings are the right height. But I've made the holes on the bridge far too far apart for each course. So the first question is: is there some trick or bodge to drill some holes on a bridge while it's still glued on? (Something that doesn't require an obscure and expensive tool.) 2) If I do have to take the bridge off, I wonder if there are any important principles that even the simplest bridge should follow. My bridge is not much more than a strip of wood about about 1.3cms thick. (I think the height is OK). Would it be better to have a bridge with a bigger area - for a stronger joint and more area to transmit sound? (But early guitars have small bridges?) Thanks To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
Perhaps Munir Bashir always knew that Islamic environment is not good for a musician, so he lived most of his life in (Communist) Budapest. RT - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear Vance, Art, Stewart, Stuart and All, How nice it would be indeed, Vance, if we could but sleep it off, wake up to find it has all been a bad dream. It is a bad dream, a living nightmare for so many people out there, troops and civilians. It is not a subject for this list, but I have to admit that I could not find it in myself to wish people a happy new year, on this list, or on the French list, and really believe my words. I shall not say here, who I think is to blame, but the events since the invasion have unravelled like a predictable Shakespearian tragedy. However, we are not a zone of political discussion, and that question might not, indeed, be relevant to our list. What does seem to be relevant, however, is that Baghdad had an important school of Oudists. Indeed, according to Wikipedia, it was the place of political asylum chosen by the Turkish Oudist, Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar, when fleeing from political oppression in Turkey*. There he set up a renowned lute school, in which Mounir Bachir (1930-1997) was his pupil http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Mounir_Bachir . The situation seems complex, as the great historic centre of the Oud appears to have been Mossul, and the most famous early musicians seem to have been Kurds. Indeed, Mounir Bachir, himself came from Mossul, so that the Baghdad school would perhaps have been a meeting of two great Oud traditions. I have no idea how much the Kurdish Oud players suffered under Baghdad rule. I imagine that in free Kurdish areas, perhaps the Oud is still thriving at the moment. Even the Baghdad Oud school seems to have suffered from dictatorship : Rahim Alhaj, pupil of Mounir Bachir is said to have fled Iraq for America, Albuquerque, even before the war. 'He was imprisoned twice by the regime of Saddam Hussein, in part for refusing to compose musical tributes to that regime's military adventures during the 1980's. http://www.rahimalhaj.com/news4.html. I also see that Ahmed Mukhtar, coming from the Baghdad school, was chosen by the UN with sixteen other musicians from all over the world to release a CD for the benefit of the victims of terrorism and wars. (-- ). He also teaches Arabic music theory and percussion in London colleges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mukhtar. Did he flee the dictatorship, or the war? I don't know. Perhaps a new Oud school will develop out of all this distruction, in London and even ironically in America. Viewed from this narrow angle of lute playing, the situation may appear complex; but however much music and musicians may suffer under dictatorship, there is no doubt they certainly don't thrive in the midst of war and barbary. I think, legitimately, on this list we can have a thought for our fellow Oudists who still remain in the civil- war zones of Iraq, and particularly the Baghdad school. Let us hope that what a few heads of state began in 2002 will not result in an end to that wonderful luth school, even if it may survive in London and in Albuquerque -- I will admit that reducing my thoughts to the protection of Oudists seems very selfish coming from a lute player, but as a member of the lute list, I do not feel that I can allow myself, here, to extend my thoughts further. Best regards to all lutists, luthists, and oudists Anthony PS *Please, fellow Turkish Oudists do not think I am criticizing your country. I honestly don't know what the exact circumstances were that caused Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar's departure. Le 27 janv. 07 =E0 04:19, vance wood a ecrit : Why don't you go sleep it off Arto? - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people are killed EVERY day! Human beings like you or me. This is one the very rare cases of a superpover sending its military to occupy a state after the second world war... The guy and his country is bound to that mess for a long, LONG time. And the same guy took care of taking the USA out of the so called western values by his concentration camps and accepting the torture. Even in the legistlation of the USA there seems to be something like light torture nowadays... Horrible!
[LUTE] Re: Baghdad Oudists thumb-over
Dear Craig, Stephen, Sean, Jean-Marie, Arthur and All I am not sure whether this is an answer to your question; but two weeks ago I saw a Turkish Oud player using a technique that looked very similar to the so-called Renaissance thumb-over, as shown in many paintings, see Jean-Marie Poirier http://le.luth.free.fr/pouce/ index.html or Arthur Ness http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ thumb.html He was playing a Baglama Oud, a sort of long-necked three course lute, as shown here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItemitem=260057878273ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIXrefite m=130068408928itemcount=4refwidgetloc=closed_view_itemrefwidgettype=o si_widget. The neck has that U-shape which allows the thumb to come over; and yes his thumb was always cocked ready to strike and while he used the index and medium (freely) to stop the first two courses, he only used his thumb to stop the third course. Of course, he struck the strings with a plectrum. I tried to ask him whether this was general for monodic Baglama players, but my Turkish is very weak and I had a little difficulty with his French; however, I think he said he thought it was traditional, and not an innovation. He seemed to be explaining to me that it was just so much easier to stop the 3rd course with the thumb, so why use the other fingers. He also explained that he was surprised to see that the European lute players present, never used thumb-over. This seems to confirm what several people have suggested, that thumb- over may have been carried over from monodic Oud playing; but not necessarily quite as suggested recently by Mark Wheeler. Mark suggested that thumb-over could be used to protect the lower strings from wild plectrum strumming. This was certainly not what this oud player was doing. One can then suppose that as the plectrum was replaced by the fingers and polyphonic lute music developed, this thumb-over would continue on the lower strings, and as fairly complex chords developed, the thumb-over would be used, at least in part, as suggested by Denys Stephens, where today we would use barring. ( 'Lute News' N°54, Mind that left thumb), One would suppose that as more complex chords developed and lutes became wider, with additional strings, barring would completely replace thumb-over. However, the two techniques could very well have coexisted for a while. As Denys Stephens says, at first sight it seems strange that, while renaissance players have developed their right hand technique with thumb-in, they have rarely attempted to alter their left-hand technique to include thumb-over. However, if you consider that most players of Renaissance music today, play on fairly wide instruments (5c, 6c, 7c, 8c and even 10c), it would obviously be rather difficult to maintain thumb-over into this wide range of instruments. This is not exactly an answer to your question, but I think it is at least at a tangent to it. Regards Anthony Le 27 janv. 07 à 15:43, Craig Robert Pierpont a écrit : Anthony's discussion of the oud in the middle east raises an interesting question . It's a little complicated but follow me here. As I understand it, the middle east has a contiguous oud tradition while the west has a lute revival. Without bifircating the bunny about the description, do you see the difference? Lute players ofter ask how the Old Ones would have done it. Some years ago, musicologists in the USA and western Europe (Cecil Sharp and others) concluded that the folk songs of the American Appalachian mountains, having come from western Europe had remained relatively unchanged over their 200 years in America, but the same folk songs still performed in western Europe had evolved considerably over the same time period. Hence the folk songs in America served as a 200 year old archive of European folk music. While I have heard some music performed on oud that was obviously inspired by modern music, what of the bulk of the oud music being performed today? Is it a steadily evolving tradition? A constant attempt to replicate The Old Ones? A style of playing based on age old patterns and pedagogy that keeps it similar to the music of the middle ages? A combination of the above or something else altogether? Craig Craig R. Pierpont Another Era Lutherie www.anotherera.com Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Vance, Art, Stewart, Stuart and All, How nice it would be indeed, Vance, if we could but sleep it off, wake up to find it has all been a bad dream. It is a bad dream, a living nightmare for so many people out there, troops and civilians. It is not a subject for this list, but I have to admit that I could not find it in myself to wish people a happy new year, on this list, or on the French list, and really believe my words. I shall not say here, who I think is to
[LUTE] Re: Baghdad Oudists
Yes, a little complicated, but I'm sure we can all stumble along... ;-) On Jan 27, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Craig Robert Pierpont wrote: Anthony's discussion of the oud in the middle east raises an interesting question . It's a little complicated but follow me here. As I understand it, the middle east has a contiguous oud tradition while the west has a lute revival. Without bifircating the bunny about the description, do you see the difference? Without what...? (but yes, I can see the difference.) Lute players ofter ask how the Old Ones would have done it. As do players in your own world of the clarsach. One could make similar points: HIP wire-strung purists who have reconstructed the techniques of the Old Ones, the people who play modern commercial music on the folk harp, those who adhere faithfully to what they perceive to be the true folk traditions of their particular region (and the intensifying effect upon those traditions made by foreign visitors?). Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's authentic? Who's the most pedagogical? etc. etc. What do these things tell us about the future of clarsach playing? While I have heard some music performed on oud that was obviously inspired by modern music, what of the bulk of the oud music being performed today? Is it a steadily evolving tradition? A constant attempt to replicate The Old Ones? A style of playing based on age old patterns and pedagogy that keeps it similar to the music of the middle ages? A combination of the above or something else altogether? I think it's all of the above. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-05-11-iraq-week-oud_x.htm Even USA Today is reporting on the Oud in wartime Iraq. We have one of the master oud luthiers here in Boston, Peter Kyvelos, who is quoted in the article. His ouds start at $6000. He calls the ones from Pakistani Grocery Store Ouds. He lectured on ouds at the Boston MFA about a year ago. - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear Vance, Art, Stewart, Stuart and All, How nice it would be indeed, Vance, if we could but sleep it off, wake up to find it has all been a bad dream. It is a bad dream, a living nightmare for so many people out there, troops and civilians. It is not a subject for this list, but I have to admit that I could not find it in myself to wish people a happy new year, on this list, or on the French list, and really believe my words. I shall not say here, who I think is to blame, but the events since the invasion have unravelled like a predictable Shakespearian tragedy. However, we are not a zone of political discussion, and that question might not, indeed, be relevant to our list. What does seem to be relevant, however, is that Baghdad had an important school of Oudists. Indeed, according to Wikipedia, it was the place of political asylum chosen by the Turkish Oudist, Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar, when fleeing from political oppression in Turkey*. There he set up a renowned lute school, in which Mounir Bachir (1930-1997) was his pupil http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Mounir_Bachir . The situation seems complex, as the great historic centre of the Oud appears to have been Mossul, and the most famous early musicians seem to have been Kurds. Indeed, Mounir Bachir, himself came from Mossul, so that the Baghdad school would perhaps have been a meeting of two great Oud traditions. I have no idea how much the Kurdish Oud players suffered under Baghdad rule. I imagine that in free Kurdish areas, perhaps the Oud is still thriving at the moment. Even the Baghdad Oud school seems to have suffered from dictatorship : Rahim Alhaj, pupil of Mounir Bachir is said to have fled Iraq for America, Albuquerque, even before the war. 'He was imprisoned twice by the regime of Saddam Hussein, in part for refusing to compose musical tributes to that regime's military adventures during the 1980's. http://www.rahimalhaj.com/news4.html. I also see that Ahmed Mukhtar, coming from the Baghdad school, was chosen by the UN with sixteen other musicians from all over the world to release a CD for the benefit of the victims of terrorism and wars. (-- ). He also teaches Arabic music theory and percussion in London colleges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mukhtar. Did he flee the dictatorship, or the war? I don't know. Perhaps a new Oud school will develop out of all this distruction, in London and even ironically in America. Viewed from this narrow angle of lute playing, the situation may appear complex; but however much music and musicians may suffer under dictatorship, there is no doubt they certainly don't thrive in the midst of war and barbary. I think, legitimately, on this list we can have a thought for our fellow Oudists who still remain in the civil- war zones of Iraq, and particularly the Baghdad school. Let us hope that what a few heads of state began in 2002 will not result in an end to that wonderful luth school, even if it may survive in London and in Albuquerque -- I will admit that reducing my thoughts to the protection of Oudists seems very selfish coming from a lute player, but as a member of the lute list, I do not feel that I can allow myself, here, to extend my thoughts further. Best regards to all lutists, luthists, and oudists Anthony PS *Please, fellow Turkish Oudists do not think I am criticizing your country. I honestly don't know what the exact circumstances were that caused Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar's departure. Le 27 janv. 07 =E0 04:19, vance wood a ecrit : Why don't you go sleep it off Arto? - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people are killed EVERY day! Human beings like you or me. This is one the very rare cases of a superpover sending its military to occupy a state after the second world war... The guy and his country is bound to that mess for a
[LUTE] Luciano Faria still working?
Hi All, I can't seem to get hold of Brazilian luthier Luciano Faria recently (since at least October). Has anybody heard from him lately? Jim Abraham -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
Art, the article also mentioned you! ed At 12:58 PM 1/27/2007 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-05-11-iraq-week-oud_x.htm Even USA Today is reporting on the Oud in wartime Iraq. We have one of the master oud luthiers here in Boston, Peter Kyvelos, who is quoted in the article. His ouds start at $6000. He calls the ones from Pakistani Grocery Store Ouds. He lectured on ouds at the Boston MFA about a year ago. - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear Vance, Art, Stewart, Stuart and All, How nice it would be indeed, Vance, if we could but sleep it off, wake up to find it has all been a bad dream. It is a bad dream, a living nightmare for so many people out there, troops and civilians. It is not a subject for this list, but I have to admit that I could not find it in myself to wish people a happy new year, on this list, or on the French list, and really believe my words. I shall not say here, who I think is to blame, but the events since the invasion have unravelled like a predictable Shakespearian tragedy. However, we are not a zone of political discussion, and that question might not, indeed, be relevant to our list. What does seem to be relevant, however, is that Baghdad had an important school of Oudists. Indeed, according to Wikipedia, it was the place of political asylum chosen by the Turkish Oudist, Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar, when fleeing from political oppression in Turkey*. There he set up a renowned lute school, in which Mounir Bachir (1930-1997) was his pupil http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Mounir_Bachir . The situation seems complex, as the great historic centre of the Oud appears to have been Mossul, and the most famous early musicians seem to have been Kurds. Indeed, Mounir Bachir, himself came from Mossul, so that the Baghdad school would perhaps have been a meeting of two great Oud traditions. I have no idea how much the Kurdish Oud players suffered under Baghdad rule. I imagine that in free Kurdish areas, perhaps the Oud is still thriving at the moment. Even the Baghdad Oud school seems to have suffered from dictatorship : Rahim Alhaj, pupil of Mounir Bachir is said to have fled Iraq for America, Albuquerque, even before the war. 'He was imprisoned twice by the regime of Saddam Hussein, in part for refusing to compose musical tributes to that regime's military adventures during the 1980's. http://www.rahimalhaj.com/news4.html. I also see that Ahmed Mukhtar, coming from the Baghdad school, was chosen by the UN with sixteen other musicians from all over the world to release a CD for the benefit of the victims of terrorism and wars. (-- ). He also teaches Arabic music theory and percussion in London colleges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mukhtar. Did he flee the dictatorship, or the war? I don't know. Perhaps a new Oud school will develop out of all this distruction, in London and even ironically in America. Viewed from this narrow angle of lute playing, the situation may appear complex; but however much music and musicians may suffer under dictatorship, there is no doubt they certainly don't thrive in the midst of war and barbary. I think, legitimately, on this list we can have a thought for our fellow Oudists who still remain in the civil- war zones of Iraq, and particularly the Baghdad school. Let us hope that what a few heads of state began in 2002 will not result in an end to that wonderful luth school, even if it may survive in London and in Albuquerque -- I will admit that reducing my thoughts to the protection of Oudists seems very selfish coming from a lute player, but as a member of the lute list, I do not feel that I can allow myself, here, to extend my thoughts further. Best regards to all lutists, luthists, and oudists Anthony PS *Please, fellow Turkish Oudists do not think I am criticizing your country. I honestly don't know what the exact circumstances were that caused Chirif Mohyi Iddin Haydar's departure. Le 27 janv. 07 =E0 04:19, vance wood a ecrit : Why don't you go sleep it off Arto? - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?) Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
I think the conflictual situation in Palestine is central to the problem in the whole area where old cutural links are breaking under impossible tensions. You may consider your attempts to help people find or keep open such cultural links as lofty and naîve, but any such effort, I am sure is worthwhile in this rapidly darkening situation. I think Arto is right in thinking that grave political errors can have consequences even for lutists (and lutists can not be politically neutral, just because they are musicians); but I would like to believe that you are right iif you consider that a music list is the place for keeping dialogue open, and looking for common values even between potential enemies. Anthony Le 27 janv. 07 à 13:51, Doc Rossi a écrit : Thank you, Anthony, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking summary. I believe musicians caught up in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict also have their share of problems, like oudist Samir Joubran, for example, who cannot perform in most of the Arab world because he is an Israeli citizen. I have met two different Israeli singers (both women, and their names escape me at the moment) who have had long- term working relationships with Palestinian musicians. One is here in France, the other in Rome. The organization I'm playing for now, J.A.DE, was founded to demonstrate the many links among Mediterranean peoples in music, poetry and dance. A lofty perhaps even naive proposal for some, but it is something we can do. Doc Rossi To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
(and lutists can not be politically neutral, just because they are musicians); Of course not, but how about keeping our political beliefs, religious beliefs, preference in computer operating system (often more strongly held than the first two) OFF THIS LIST??!! We all have a life separate from the lute. Arto feels compelled every couple of months to spew forth his non-musical opinions either because he hasn't figured out how to find political forums for discussion or he is convinced that his non-musical interests must be fascinating to others here. Well, I have some fascinating non-musical opinions. I feel very strongly about prostatitis, and how best to manually drain an infected prostate of fluid, and novel ways to analyze the pus that comes out. It is important to lutenists, because most are male and 10% of males worldwide will suffer from this problem. It's germaine to the middle east: Saddam Hussein suffered from this chronically, as I am sure do many oud players. Appetizing? I didn't think so. Let's keep political and prostatic discussion off the list please. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: VERY OFF TOPIC! (political?)
i'm an american and an oud player and i resent like hell the collective blanket of guilt that arto is attempting to cast over everyone else from the good ol' usa with his (admittedly) very off topic post. arto - finland sided with the nazis during the second world war. i know there were reasons for this and i imagine (i hope!) that the vast majority of your countrymen - even if they had wanted to - were powerless to influence events. but if the metaphorical chickens contained in your posting below were to come home to roost, then ... yes or no, arto: have you (the collective, finnish you) stopped being nazis? the only place i have any real influence on this planet is in the confines of my own vegetable garden (to borrow a reference from voltaire) and arto ... talented musician and generous contributor that you are ... i would humbly and respectfully suggest that you - and anyone else of a similar, fundamentalistist persuasion - stop searching for great satan in the united states of america and start hoeing your own god-damned row. --- Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, it is going bad! Mr. Bush - the winner of the USA elections, the man chosen by (nearly) half of the Amercians, has managed to produce a civilian war in a country, where he sent his military. Tens if not hundreds of people are killed EVERY day! Human beings like you or me. This is one the very rare cases of a superpover sending its military to occupy a state after the second world war... The guy and his country is bound to that mess for a long, LONG time. And the same guy took care of taking the USA out of the so called western values by his concentration camps and accepting the torture. Even in the legistlation of the USA there seems to be something like light torture nowadays... Horrible! To me the modern USA represents a new historical period of gettig out of the the times of the so called Enlightment, the time where human rights were taken seriously. And now we have come back to the Dark Ages again? Or? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
[LUTE] Re: a couple of questions about home-made bridges
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: [LUTE] a couple of questions about home-made bridges ... Would it be better to have a bridge with a bigger area - for a stronger joint and more area to transmit sound? (But early guitars have small bridges?) Good question, Stuart. It all really depends on the quality of your instrument and how 'authentically' it's constructed. So in your case (as of your mentioning of 'an inexpensive oud') it won't probably be so terribly important if the bridge is wider than 'normal'. Whether the bridge and its gluing area is bigger or smaller, it would have no difference on the amount of energy of the vibrating string that is transmitted to the soundboard. What is more important is its mass. Slimmer / lighter bridge will result in rising the frequency of some particular modes of vibrating soundboard, while fatter / heavier bridge to lowering those modes. Or, in other words, lighter bridge will enhance higher frequencies, heavier one - lower. Instrument with a lighter bridge will also be quicker to respond to a plucked string, with a heavier - slower. Old makers have probably arrived at some optimum parameters of bridges on lutes and guitars purely empirically, aiming at what works best for the sort of sound they and / or their customers favoured most. Those bridges are, as a rule, rather slim and made of sufficiently dense but lighter varieties of wood (fruit woods seem to be mostly common). So the best approach would be to follow the examples of such surviving original bridges (not so many of them unfortunately). And by fitting 'inappropriately' proportioned bridge to either old instrument or authentically constructed new one it's perfectly possible to virtually ruin their sound! Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
