[LUTE] was historical lute stringings--double first course
>I played for some time an instrument with doubled first course, the >spacing was very important and the sound was not good above an F. An important concern is the long trills, they rattle a bit with the thin strings. I only really prefer it on bass lute, theorbo & baroque mandolin. dt >-- > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret stringing, was: historical lute stringings
I don't think meantone is the reason for the gut frets, I think they must have liked the sound. Just conjecture. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
The beginning of this clip focuses on Carlos Paredes' right hand. http://youtube.com/watch?v=gKnO_RwGhss On Nov 2, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > Yes, I got your reply yesterday. Very interesting. Did you see my > response? It went like this: > > Thanks Doc, > Ah ha! So the interesting point would be where they change to and > from it, how they negotiate going from a down stroke as a strong > beat to an up stroke being the strong beat. > > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Doc Rossi wrote: > >> Hi Ed, >> >> I think I misunderstood your question earlier. They use the flesh >> side of the nail for the strong beat - the stroke towards the body. >> >> Doc >> >> On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 31, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Doc Rossi wrote: >>> I've seen people play dedilho before, but never to such an advanced degree as in Portugal. >>> >>> Did they use the flesh side or nail side for the strong beat in >>> Portugal? >>> TIA >>> >>> Ed Durbrow >>> Saitama, Japan >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ >>> >>> >> > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: )Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
On Sunday 04 November 2007 23:10, Edward Martin rattled on the keyboard: > Thanks for pointing this out, Art. As you know, I happen to live in Duluth > (Minnesota, not Georgia), as does Dan Larson. > > As I am a lutenist who does happen to have recordings, it bothers me when > my recordings are copied without consent. But, in this particular case, it > was tried in federal court in Duluth, and if I recall, the defendant > resides in Brainerd, which is about 100 miles from Duluth. The verdict > happened about 3 weeks ago. The young lady who was found guilty is a > single mother with 2 young children, and she earns $30,000 annually. She > will never be in a position to pay off this hefty fine. If my > understanding is correct, she shared popular song downloads, ripping off > the record companies. > > I really feel sorry for her, as although she is guilty, in my opinion, the > punishment exceeds by far the nature of her crime. In our times, it seems > to me that individual people who are plaintiffs in civil cases quite often > have their cases thrown out of court, even when they have a legitimate > case. On the other hand, if the plaintiff(s) are large corporations, the > courts seem to "beat up" the little guys (gals). > > Money talks. > > ed > You are absolutely right on this, ed and compared with other crimes this punishment is certainly wrong and imho typically for the US. The sharing of downloaded stuff is often not recognized by many people: one uses a torrent and downloads some music, text or software but already during the download and afterwards the sharing starts. After a complete download depending on the torrent client, the object is moved into a folder which is not always easy visible. It could very well be that this woman was not even aware of sharing song downloads, but that's difficult to prove and she certainly had not the money to get a good lawyer. Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
a site devoted to Carlos Paredes with other views of his technique: http://www.cidadevirtual.pt/cdl/carlosparedes.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: So...where to find more tabs?
Sarge Gerbode's site was a useful resource - does anyone know why it's disappeared? Andrew On 5 Nov 2007, at 08:25, LGS-Europe wrote: for some songs (campion, dowland etc.) but they the site is not working for the past few days i need to download tab+lyrics to a new project. i really hate computers... How about using your computer to order music? All the Campion and Dowland songbooks are for sale, facsimile as well as modern editions. Lyrics included! ;-) David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Archlute
>> Well, I've finally joined the realm of the giraffe wranglers. Behold >> my new Archlute, courtesy of Andrew Rutherford: You obviously enjoyed it, and so did I. That is a nice one. I have been surprised to see, that you hold the lute on a strap and with your right arm. It look like you're comfortable with that bearing. I tried that position, but I found that it caused too much tension on my right arm because of the neck entension of the lute to my left. So, I have it standing on my right leg, but with a strap running over my back to the left shoulder so as to have the lute fixed. Another thing, isn't it funny that Zamboni didn't leave the execution of long appogiature to players? He wrote them out, like daddy Bach did with ornaments, to make sure they're executed exactly the way he had in mind. -- All the best, Mathias > So that's what you folks are called. LOUD APPLAUSE!! I'm sure you'll > loosen up in a few days; for right out of the box that sounds great. > Is it a rule on this list to do a show 'n tell whenever a new > instrument is acquired? I suppose it should be a law. Would love to > see detailed pics, too. Long live the ITALIAN Baroque lute! I have > the Zamboni, sitting uselessly on my bookshelf. If that's your living > room you have a great space for it. Congratulations. -Dan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
- Original Message - From: "Ron Andrico" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and the fact that the piece really needs reconstruction does not help the matter.< Needs reconstruction It lacks a rhythmic sign in ms. 4 and a chord at the end of ms. 20 in the facsimile, I would hardly call that "needs reconstruction"! G. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Archlute
Beautiful instrument, Daniel! Congratulations. It's good to hear Zamboni being played. I play a few of his pieces on the 10-course, occasionally having to transpose the basses up an octave. In my admittedly brief experience of performing a couple of those Zamboni sonatas, I've found that audiences tend to associate the name Zamboni with Frank J. Zamboni: the inventor of the ice resurfacer. This machine is apparently called a "Zamboni." One man came up to me after I had played Z's sonata No. 1 (in Georgetown, I think), and said "I know the name Zamboni." I thought great, here's a guy who knows about lute music. Then he said, "he's the floor guy." I looked at him as though he was mad, because I didn't know what he was talking about. He ended up having to explain to me about this ice surfacing machine. Weird world... David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
At 05:50 PM 11/4/2007, vance wood wrote: >You cannot argue with a Guitar player about fixed metal frets, especially >if their only exposure to the Lute is at a distance. They have to have >first hand experience with gut frets and the fineness of the sound before >they start to grasp the significance of them. Don't even try discussing >different temperament, that's like having that discussion with a piano player. Come now, I'm a guitar player who has no problem with gut frets on my gut-fretted thingies or with fixed metal on my wire-fretted thingies. I suppose modern guitarists could be equally correct in saying "You cannot argue with a lute player about tied-gut frets and all manor of non-equal temperament schemes that do not permit modulation or the use of many accidentals on fretted strings." Play and enjoy. Feel free to listen if you happen to hear somebody else playing something you enjoy. Peace to all brethren and sistren in pluckiude, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
> Needs reconstruction It lacks a rhythmic sign in ms. 4 and a > chord at the end of ms. 20 in the facsimile, I would hardly call > that "needs reconstruction"! Everyone is, of course, free to determine their own needs, but for most people things like big 4-3 cadences that resolve on the 4th beat of the measure (as happens in the MS in number of places) are usually signs that something has gone off the track somewhere and needs fixing. In his talk last summer Paul had a number of other points, but I don't have my notes at hand. Bob --- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
At 06:03 PM 11/4/2007, Daniel Winheld wrote: >Not all guitarists are harmonic bone heads. This guy has guitars with >interchangeable fingerboards for different temperaments- and there is >an Iranian guitarist (forget her name) who has jusdiciously placed >tastini on her guitar for Persian microtonal work. ..And don't forget the "enharmonic" guitar experiments by characters like Panormo and Lacote in the 19th c. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Xmas ensemble
Any recommendations for Xmas music for violin/ viola da gamba and Ren lute/B. guit? Gig coming up in a department store in December that calls for a few Christmas tunes. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Xmas ensemble
On Monday 05 November 2007 16:20, Ed Durbrow rattled on the keyboard: > Any recommendations for Xmas music for violin/ viola da gamba and Ren > lute/B. guit? Gig coming up in a department store in December that > calls for a few Christmas tunes. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html I played a few times French christmas music by Charpentier en de lalande with gambas, lutes and traverso players. Very nice music. Any combination of instruments is possible. taco
[LUTE] Re: Xmas ensemble
I should mention that this is Japan and will be a very public, general audience. Chestnuts only, I'm afraid. Just thought someone might already have some arrangements made that they found were real crowd pleasers. Like Guy said, I'll probably find something I can play and double the treble with the violin and bass with the gamba. I will not be wearing this costume!: http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/edassanta.html :-) On Nov 6, 2007, at 12:26 AM, Taco Walstra wrote: > I played a few times French christmas music by Charpentier en de > lalande with > gambas, lutes and traverso players. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Neck section in a 6 course lute
Dear Collective Wisdom, I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in London. I was together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was incredibly deep. After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained that the measure prevented him from playing easily. I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument matched perfectly her neck. I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein "Ambassadors" portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in Barber & Harris website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I tend to think she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if you prefer). The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to think about? Any advice? By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and an excellent projection. Thank you in advance, Luca [2]http://liuti.manassero.net References 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): 2. http://liuti.manassero.net/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
Play it like popular guitars are (and often were) commonly played: ie with the neck cradled in the V of your hand between the thumb and index finger. Indeed as violinists do. Luca Manassero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Collective Wisdom, I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in London. I was together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was incredibly deep. After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained that the measure prevented him from playing easily. I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument matched perfectly her neck. I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein "Ambassadors" portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in Barber & Harris website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I tend to think she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if you prefer). The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to think about? Any advice? By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and an excellent projection. Thank you in advance, Luca [2]http://liuti.manassero.net References 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): 2. http://liuti.manassero.net/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. --
[LUTE] Re: was historical lute stringings--double first course
> >I played for some time an instrument with doubled first course, the >>spacing was very important and the sound was not good above an F. Exactly my experience- Barber-Harris vihuela, 64.5 cm sl, doubles worked at f, no higher- (instrument as a whole craps out down at e, sounds best somewhere close to f#); kept them on as long as I could but my touch was not reliable enough to keep the sound clean over the long haul. On the plus side, very homogeneous sound- no chantarelle as prima donna of the strings- polyphonic works had a beautiful, even quality. I can imagine the double first would be good in continuo and accompaniment situations. -Dan >An important concern is the long trills, they rattle a bit with the >thin strings. > > >I only really prefer it on bass lute, theorbo & baroque mandolin. >dt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>-- >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
[LUTE] Re: Xmas ensemble
will there be two of you, swopping instruments or are there four of you? shame about the costume - what's that wire running up your arm for?!? - bill --- Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Any recommendations for Xmas music for violin/ viola > da gamba and Ren > lute/B. guit? Gig coming up in a department store in > December that > calls for a few Christmas tunes. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > http://billkilpatrickhaiku.blogspot.com/ ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
Interesting- my experience has been the exact opposite. My hybrid 6 course (Arnault de Zwolle body mated to a typical late 15th/early 16th century 8 fret 6 course fingerboard) originally had a very thin neck; extremely uncomfortable (hand cramped up) but only after about 20 minutes or so of playing. Mel Wong re-necked the thing a couple of years ago; much thicker neck -don't know if it conforms exactly to historic specs- but now it's a joy to play, and my technique is based on the lowered wrist/classical guitar form. Dan >Dear Collective Wisdom, >I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. >Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known >Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in >London. I was >together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to >try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was >incredibly deep. >After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried >the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the >neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained >that the measure prevented him from playing easily. >I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the >lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument >matched perfectly her neck. >I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein >"Ambassadors" >portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in >Barber & Harris >website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I >tend to think >she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if >you prefer). >The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY >much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. >Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to >think about? Any advice? >By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and >an excellent projection. >Thank you in advance, >Luca -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
Likewise. My alto is based on the Gerle (scaled down to 57cm). It has a thick neck, very close to a semicircle in cross section, and is very comfortable to play. Guy -Original Message- From: Daniel Winheld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:25 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute Interesting- my experience has been the exact opposite. My hybrid 6 course (Arnault de Zwolle body mated to a typical late 15th/early 16th century 8 fret 6 course fingerboard) originally had a very thin neck; extremely uncomfortable (hand cramped up) but only after about 20 minutes or so of playing. Mel Wong re-necked the thing a couple of years ago; much thicker neck -don't know if it conforms exactly to historic specs- but now it's a joy to play, and my technique is based on the lowered wrist/classical guitar form. Dan >Dear Collective Wisdom, >I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. >Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known >Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in >London. I was >together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to >try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was >incredibly deep. >After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried >the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the >neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained >that the measure prevented him from playing easily. >I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the >lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument >matched perfectly her neck. >I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein >"Ambassadors" >portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in >Barber & Harris >website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I >tend to think >she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if >you prefer). >The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY >much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. >Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to >think about? Any advice? >By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and >an excellent projection. >Thank you in advance, >Luca -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
Dear all, I have the Magno dieffopruchar, Venice, c.1550 (collection of J & A Beare Ltd, London) by Stephen Barber, and I very much like the shape of of the neck of that instrument. I suppose Stephen made it just as it is in the original. And as Martyn wrote, the shape of my left hand around that neck looks very similiar to the way violin is played All the best, Arto On 11/5/2007, "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Play it like popular guitars are (and often were) commonly played: ie with > the neck cradled in the V of your hand between the thumb and index finger. > Indeed as violinists do. > > > > Luca Manassero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Collective Wisdom, > I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. > Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known > Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in London. I was > together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to > try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was > incredibly deep. > After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried > the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the > neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained > that the measure prevented him from playing easily. > I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the > lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument > matched perfectly her neck. > I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein "Ambassadors" > portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in Barber & Harris > website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I tend to think > she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if > you prefer). > The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY > much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. > Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to > think about? Any advice? > By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and > an excellent projection. > Thank you in advance, > Luca > [2]http://liuti.manassero.net > > References > > 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): > 2. http://liuti.manassero.net/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > - > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. > --
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
I wrote > I have the Magno dieffopruchar, Venice, c.1550 (collection of J & A > Beare Ltd, London) by Stephen Barber, and I very much like the shape > of of the neck of that instrument. I suppose Stephen made it just as it > is in the original. And as Martyn wrote, the shape of my left hand > around that neck looks very similiar to the way violin is played By the way, my instrument - made in 1985 - looks just like Stephen's same model made in 1987, see http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/images/MD6.jpg That link and explanations of this model and others is in Stephen's and Sandy's page http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm All the best, Arto PS Stephen, if you happen to read this, what is the number of my dieffo in your list of this model? One of the 4 first? Excellent lute, btw. :-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
O.K. Ron, I took the time to compare your version with the original, because this is a piece close to my heart. The original is for 7 courses. You rearrange it for 8 course lute. You introduce dotted notes in places before where the facsimile seems to have a dot over some ciphers. I don't quite understand why Holmes should write out only some dotted rhythm signs. Could they perhaps be "bleedings", as they occur all over the manuscript in many unwarranted places. Checking the preceeding and following pieces seems to indicate this. I can't rule out the theory of "economical writing" though, as some of the dots are on plausible spots. As you chose to have unequal bars (nrs. of beats) and no bar numbers, I will here call each of your bars a measure, irrespective of note values within each one. In your 4th measure, you remove a dotted hook over the first chord, (which should probably be a single hook - bleeding again?), and introduce a 2nd note (c5) not in the maniscript. (In the penultimate note of this (your 4th) bar Holmes apparently forgot a triple hook over a1 and consequently a double hook on the e2 five ciphers later. In your 13th ms. you have corrected the d4 to c4, something everyone playing the piece will accept as right. The last note in your ms. 15 is a1. The Ms. says c1. I opt for the latter. One could even envisage a discreet mordent on the preceeding note. In ms. 21, your 6th note is an e2, where the Ms. says d2. I believe the original to be correct. In ms.22, you choose to put 10th note as e4 instead of Ms's a3 which sounds equal. (Barré reasons?) In ms. 36 you chose to ignore the interesting longer 2-hook on the second note (c4). This could explain why there are 4 strains instead of three as in the following, as if that first one is just like a small prelude, to point out that the virtuoso finale starts there. (I could be mistaken...) In ms. 38 there is no a6 on note 22 in the Ms. as you have. Perhaps to advertize that this type of scalar passages are coming to an end? Ms. 46 is interesting. In the fac. note 7 is c3 instead of your a4, to keep the descending bass line. I have to say, that I find the original adds an interesting spice when breaking the descending bass so unexpectedly and then continuing. There is someting of a small echo to this in ms. 49. I agree to adding 2 chords at end of ms. 52 and beginning of ms. 53, and the double hooks at the end, to slow the piece down before the final chord. So, there you have it. As a whole, I find the differences to be minor, and not much more faulty than most manuscript pieces out there. Therefore to call the piece "really needing _reconstruction_" is perhaps to exagerate a bit, don't you think? B.R. G. PS. I totally agree with your view that many ascribed Francesco pieces do not seem _at all_ to be in his style. - Original Message - From: "Ron Andrico" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "G.R. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo Dear Are: Diana Poulton attributed the piece (with reservation) to Dowland based on the fact that it contains several of Dowland's typical devices; the ascending scale passages with a repeated first note, and several tonic/dominant repetitions with inversions. The piece also appears in the manuscript (D9) following another fantasia more securely attributed to Dowland (Poulton #6). I have to agree with you that Poulton #73 doesn't necessarily sound like Dowland, and the fact that the piece really needs reconstruction does not help the matter. There seems to be a tendency to attribute unascribed music to known composers simply because a given piece is good. This is certainly the case with many pieces attributed to Francesco da Milano. Best wishes, Ron Andrico http://www.mignarda.com Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:28:35 +0100> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo > Does any of you know why this piece is attributed to Dowland? It is a > > great piece, but to me it doesn't sound like a Dowland piece...> > > Are _ Boo!!Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Neck section in a 6 course lute
Dear Luca, There is an excellent article by Stephen Barber on the Beare collection Dieffopruchar lute in 'The Lute' (Lute Society Journal) 1982, volume XXII Part 2. I believe that his drawings of the original continue to be available, and they are likely to be the starting point used by makers who offer lutes modelled on it. In the article Stephen writes: 'The profile of the Dieffopruchar neck, unlike the Gerle neck or that of the lute in the 'Ambassadors' painting, is straight. In common with these, it is rather thicker than later lute necks; there are, I feel, interesting comparisons to be made between this shape and thickness of neck, and the necks of contemporary Venetian viols.' As it happens, I own one of Stephen & Sandi's lutes based on the Beare Dieffopruchar, and it's the perfect 6 course lute for me. The neck certainly has the parabolic section of the original, but it's tapered in thickness - a synthesis of the original and known details of other lutes of this period. I find it extremely comfortable to play, and I imagine it's a very carefully considered feature of their design. I suspect that I would probably find an exact copy of the original a bit of a handful at the pegbox end of the neck. I have heard numerous stories over the years that suggest that the idea of an 'exact copy' of any historical instrument can be full of pitfalls for the unwary. And there is no need to suffer for the sake of authenticity, because the range of possibilities within the realm of 6 course lute neck design are surely such that all shapes and sizes of hands can be accommodated. If the Maler and Fugger inventories are anything to go by, that's surely what 16c makers did. So I would recommend that you don't let your experience of this particular lute put you off trying other different, but still historically inspired 6 course lutes. Best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: Luca Manassero [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 November 2007 16:03 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Neck section in a 6 course lute Dear Collective Wisdom, I need some advice on the neck section of an Italian 6 course lute. Last week I met in Milano a lutemaker who made a copy of the well-known Magno dieffopruchar lute held in the J & A Beare Collection in London. I was together with a well known Italian lutenist who, at first, refused even to try the instrument, as the "parabola"-section neck of the lute was incredibly deep. After what has been a very instructive (and funny) discussion we all tried the instrument with different results: I am a tall guy and therefore the neck measure has not been a major issue for me, while my teacher complained that the measure prevented him from playing easily. I have to admit that I had never played on such a "thick" neck, but the lutemaker insisted that the measurements taken on the original instrument matched perfectly her neck. I have after checked many lute pictures, including the Holbein "Ambassadors" portrait and spent some time on the very informative page in Barber & Harris website ([1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): I tend to think she's right. The original 6 course lute neck was very "thick" (or deep, if you prefer). The trouble is that all 7 course (or more) lute I have played are REALLY much more confortable to play, especially because thir necks are thinner. Is any of the lutemakers on this list able to provide me some measures to think about? Any advice? By the way: that lute sounded great, with a well-balanced, clear tone and an excellent projection. Thank you in advance, Luca [2]http://liuti.manassero.net References 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm): 2. http://liuti.manassero.net/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Xmas ensemble
There's an edition with Christmas songs for mixed instrumental by Ton Koopman (yes, him). I'm afraid mostly Dutch songs, nihongo kunai. I'd go for some English carols and Praetorius, easy for both performers and audience. David - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LuteNet list" Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Xmas ensemble I should mention that this is Japan and will be a very public, general audience. Chestnuts only, I'm afraid. Just thought someone might already have some arrangements made that they found were real crowd pleasers. Like Guy said, I'll probably find something I can play and double the treble with the violin and bass with the gamba. I will not be wearing this costume!: http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/edassanta.html :-) On Nov 6, 2007, at 12:26 AM, Taco Walstra wrote: I played a few times French christmas music by Charpentier en de lalande with gambas, lutes and traverso players. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
