[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
At first, I had a copper Gimped on 7c of my Baroque lute, between a loaded Venice 8c and a 6c Venice. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Gimped string in itself, but to me close to the lute, it sounded brighter than the surrounding strings (perhaps a silver or a gold gimped might have been less so?). $ Indeed, as you know, I have very much enjoyed your recording of the Conradi with a strong presence of Gimped strings, which gave an excellent sound. However, loaded Venice have a very dark if warm sound, in spite of their good harmonic behaviour; and I think they contrast more with gimped than perhaps the first generation did. In deed, I would not advise a loaded Venice between two gimped strings, either. $ In relation to this, I have tended to use stronger octaves (than basses) to brighten (and lighten) the loaded bass sound, slightly. I really do think that works extremely well (like you do I believe?). $ You are probably correct in thinking that a single string would not be noticeable to a listener. It would give some of its characteristics to its neighbouring strings, which makes it harder to hear. I may have become hyper-sensitive to these slight tonal breaks. Although I think most all-gut users prefer all gut just because they want to maximise homogeneity of sound: I think this does remain important to us for most 11c Baroque music (perhaps, a little less so with later German Baroque?). Avoiding tonal breaks (which ever string types we use) is therefore perhaps just an extension of this. Regards Anthony PS Thanks for drawing my attention to the Nigel North Weiss recording. It is superb, never mind what strings he is using. $ __ De : Edward Martin A : Anthony Hind ; Daniel Winheld ; e...@gamutstrings.com Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 23h 42min 17s Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle A few years ago, I saw one of the gold gimped strings. It was beautiful. I have not asked Dan Larson about them for years, but I can imagine that now the cost would be absolutely prohibitive. But now he uses Sterling silver with the gut, and I can tell the difference as compared to copper gimped... they do sound clearer and warmer. I have never had problems in the past, with mixing various kinds of gut basses. If the string vibrates truly and is the proper tension, I do not notice all that much difference in the sound, if one has a good gut octave. I think a person listening could probably not tell the difference in sound, but the performer perhaps can. ed At 04:29 PM 12/20/2010, Anthony Hind wrote: >Dear Dan and Ed >Thank you so much for your suggestions. I am sure either the >silver wirewound or the gimped would work, and are both excellent >strings in their own right. And yes, had there been a gold gimped, I >dare say I would have tried them on C11 and D10 (if I could have >afforded them). How lucky Dan to have been able to try one of those (or >perhaps not, as I imagine, now, you will never quite be satisfied with >lesser strings). >$ >Actually, I even remember that Paul Beier and Jakob Lindberg, at one >time mixed the old loaded and gimped strings, as well as Pistoys (as >Dan found he could without problem); but I don't think that works quite >so well with the low impedance Venice ones, which as we have all >discussed, are harmonically very different. >$ >I feel, because of this, a tonal break should be more problematic >(almost from a theoretical point of view) than a slight tension >inequality; even though I would prefer to avoid either. >$ >Whereas, I would have liked C11 220C and D10 200C, I will probably go >for a temporary drop in Kg and use D10 190C (but with a slightly higher >tensed octave as compensation), or use a rise to D10 210c (with a >slightly lower tensed octave). Until, of course, Mimmo can make more >loaded strings. >These two strings were actually available (one at B&N and the other at >Wolfgang's). >They won't be spot on, but I think it might be more the global tension >of the course, than that of the single string, which imports most; and >that will give me a chance to see if this hypothesis/hunch is right. >Thanks again, >Anthony > __ > >De : Daniel Winheld <[1]dwinh...@comcast.net> > A : Anthony Hind <[2]agno3ph...@yahoo.com>
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
A few years ago, I saw one of the gold gimped strings. It was beautiful. I have not asked Dan Larson about them for years, but I can imagine that now the cost would be absolutely prohibitive. But now he uses Sterling silver with the gut, and I can tell the difference as compared to copper gimped... they do sound clearer and warmer. I have never had problems in the past, with mixing various kinds of gut basses. If the string vibrates truly and is the proper tension, I do not notice all that much difference in the sound, if one has a good gut octave. I think a person listening could probably not tell the difference in sound, but the performer perhaps can. ed At 04:29 PM 12/20/2010, Anthony Hind wrote: >Dear Dan and Ed >Thank you so much for your suggestions. I am sure either the >silver wirewound or the gimped would work, and are both excellent >strings in their own right. And yes, had there been a gold gimped, I >dare say I would have tried them on C11 and D10 (if I could have >afforded them). How lucky Dan to have been able to try one of those (or >perhaps not, as I imagine, now, you will never quite be satisfied with >lesser strings). >$ >Actually, I even remember that Paul Beier and Jakob Lindberg, at one >time mixed the old loaded and gimped strings, as well as Pistoys (as >Dan found he could without problem); but I don't think that works quite >so well with the low impedance Venice ones, which as we have all >discussed, are harmonically very different. >$ >I feel, because of this, a tonal break should be more problematic >(almost from a theoretical point of view) than a slight tension >inequality; even though I would prefer to avoid either. >$ >Whereas, I would have liked C11 220C and D10 200C, I will probably go >for a temporary drop in Kg and use D10 190C (but with a slightly higher >tensed octave as compensation), or use a rise to D10 210c (with a >slightly lower tensed octave). Until, of course, Mimmo can make more >loaded strings. >These two strings were actually available (one at B&N and the other at >Wolfgang's). >They won't be spot on, but I think it might be more the global tension >of the course, than that of the single string, which imports most; and >that will give me a chance to see if this hypothesis/hunch is right. >Thanks again, >Anthony > __ > > De : Daniel Winheld >A : Anthony Hind >Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 22h 25min 01s >Objet : [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle >Anthony, I don't know if this would be of any use to you, but I have >found one (and only this one!) type of close-wound overspun string to >sound acceptable on my Baroque lute- and it is the one with SOLID >silver, not silver plated wire. Until I can get the new loaded strings >for my lute, I will continue to use the solid silver overspun classical >guitar D (4th) string for the 11-C, and the (bass rider) 12-B/B-flat. >For the 13-A I use a solid silver bass viola da gamba string, most >likely a 5-G. These are all old strings, and although the viol string >has a gut core vs. the nylon floss guitar string core, it must be the >solid silver making them sound virtually identical; and they transition >acceptably from the Savarez KFG 10-D, especially played in context, and >paired with the right octave string, which helps mask the change. >I would imagine that a classical guitar A-5 might substitute for a 200c >loaded. Or the right viol string, probably a 5-G like mine. As far as I >know, only E. & O. Mari ever made the solid silver wound guitar >strings, and I don't know if they still do. Viol strings ought to be >easy to find, however. The ends do take some labor intensive >modification to go through bridge and peg holes, viols being set up so >differently. Just a last resort possibility. >Dan >>I should add that I am, myself, a little frustrated as I can't get >a >>200c loaded string for love or money. I really need this string to >>operate a tweak on my Baroque lute. I managed to find all the >others, I >>needed at B&N in London, or at Wolfgang's in Paris. >>Yet, I quite understand that Mimmo can't spend time making loaded >>strings, and also get the NNG up to speed. There are a number of >>things, including gut strings, and the basic research, that only >Mimmo >>can do; but there are limits to what he can do simultaneously. >>
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Dear Dan and Ed Thank you so much for your suggestions. I am sure either the silver wirewound or the gimped would work, and are both excellent strings in their own right. And yes, had there been a gold gimped, I dare say I would have tried them on C11 and D10 (if I could have afforded them). How lucky Dan to have been able to try one of those (or perhaps not, as I imagine, now, you will never quite be satisfied with lesser strings). $ Actually, I even remember that Paul Beier and Jakob Lindberg, at one time mixed the old loaded and gimped strings, as well as Pistoys (as Dan found he could without problem); but I don't think that works quite so well with the low impedance Venice ones, which as we have all discussed, are harmonically very different. $ I feel, because of this, a tonal break should be more problematic (almost from a theoretical point of view) than a slight tension inequality; even though I would prefer to avoid either. $ Whereas, I would have liked C11 220C and D10 200C, I will probably go for a temporary drop in Kg and use D10 190C (but with a slightly higher tensed octave as compensation), or use a rise to D10 210c (with a slightly lower tensed octave). Until, of course, Mimmo can make more loaded strings. These two strings were actually available (one at B&N and the other at Wolfgang's). They won't be spot on, but I think it might be more the global tension of the course, than that of the single string, which imports most; and that will give me a chance to see if this hypothesis/hunch is right. Thanks again, Anthony __ De : Daniel Winheld A : Anthony Hind Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 22h 25min 01s Objet : [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle Anthony, I don't know if this would be of any use to you, but I have found one (and only this one!) type of close-wound overspun string to sound acceptable on my Baroque lute- and it is the one with SOLID silver, not silver plated wire. Until I can get the new loaded strings for my lute, I will continue to use the solid silver overspun classical guitar D (4th) string for the 11-C, and the (bass rider) 12-B/B-flat. For the 13-A I use a solid silver bass viola da gamba string, most likely a 5-G. These are all old strings, and although the viol string has a gut core vs. the nylon floss guitar string core, it must be the solid silver making them sound virtually identical; and they transition acceptably from the Savarez KFG 10-D, especially played in context, and paired with the right octave string, which helps mask the change. I would imagine that a classical guitar A-5 might substitute for a 200c loaded. Or the right viol string, probably a 5-G like mine. As far as I know, only E. & O. Mari ever made the solid silver wound guitar strings, and I don't know if they still do. Viol strings ought to be easy to find, however. The ends do take some labor intensive modification to go through bridge and peg holes, viols being set up so differently. Just a last resort possibility. Dan >I should add that I am, myself, a little frustrated as I can't get a >200c loaded string for love or money. I really need this string to >operate a tweak on my Baroque lute. I managed to find all the others, I >needed at B&N in London, or at Wolfgang's in Paris. >Yet, I quite understand that Mimmo can't spend time making loaded >strings, and also get the NNG up to speed. There are a number of >things, including gut strings, and the basic research, that only Mimmo >can do; but there are limits to what he can do simultaneously. >Regards >Anthony > -- -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Dear Anthony, I need to apologize for not identifying you initially as one of the worthy great ones who should have these strings first, and am glad to hear you obtained at least some of them. There are genuine advantages to living in the civilized world instead of the provinces. Have you ever tried fish gut from Damian Dlugolecki in Oregon?--he advised me not to get his strings for some reason, perhaps because he prefers dealing with early bowed instrument players. Thank you for your most welcome message. Mark Seifert Anthony Hind wrote: >Mark > I should add that I am, myself, a little frustrated as I can't get a >200c loaded string for love or money. I really need this string to >operate a tweak on my Baroque lute. I managed to find all the others, I >needed at B&N in London, or at Wolfgang's in Paris. >Yet, I quite understand that Mimmo can't spend time making loaded >strings, and also get the NNG up to speed. There are a number of >things, including gut strings, and the basic research, that only Mimmo >can do; but there are limits to what he can do simultaneously. >Regards >Anthony > __ > >De : "gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com" >A : Anthony Hind ; dwinh...@comcast.net >Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 3h 31min 16s >Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle >Curtis Daily of Portland, OR reports that he does not know as yet when >he will receive a shipment of NNGs. >Luckily, those most worthy are given them by the string gods, and have >generously reported their virtues. >Thank you, Ed and David. >Mark Seifert > Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>Dear Dan >> I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more >>experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to >quite >>the same conclusions as I did. >>$ >>I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with >purple >>haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon >>fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker >string >>for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I >think >>the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the >NNG >>might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which >ever >>you are used to, possibly). >>$ >>The NNG go down to 1.04, I think. >>$ >>The US distributor seems to be >>[1][2]http://www.aquilausa.com/ >>but I don't know whether they will have the new string. >>$ >>Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris >>Anthony >>$ >>$ >> >>Daniel Winheld >>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800 >> Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and >> your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we >> just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse >> Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others- >> 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm. >> For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute >> chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their >> way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the >> all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon >> chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario >> that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just >> stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in >> quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from >> different sources can be from each other. I >> was coming to really like >> the D'Addarios. >> Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? >> Thanks, >> Dan >> > Dear luthenists >> >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the >New NG >> >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that >way, >> >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure >Aquila >> >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostl
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Mark
I should add that I am, myself, a little frustrated as I can't get a
200c loaded string for love or money. I really need this string to
operate a tweak on my Baroque lute. I managed to find all the others, I
needed at B&N in London, or at Wolfgang's in Paris.
Yet, I quite understand that Mimmo can't spend time making loaded
strings, and also get the NNG up to speed. There are a number of
things, including gut strings, and the basic research, that only Mimmo
can do; but there are limits to what he can do simultaneously.
Regards
Anthony
__
De : "gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com"
A : Anthony Hind ; dwinh...@comcast.net
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 3h 31min 16s
Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Curtis Daily of Portland, OR reports that he does not know as yet when
he will receive a shipment of NNGs.
Luckily, those most worthy are given them by the string gods, and have
generously reported their virtues.
Thank you, Ed and David.
Mark Seifert
Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Dear Dan
> I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more
>experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to
quite
>the same conclusions as I did.
>$
>I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with
purple
>haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon
>fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker
string
>for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I
think
>the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the
NNG
>might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which
ever
>you are used to, possibly).
>$
>The NNG go down to 1.04, I think.
>$
>The US distributor seems to be
>[1][2]http://www.aquilausa.com/
>but I don't know whether they will have the new string.
>$
>Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris
>Anthony
>$
>$
>
>Daniel Winheld
>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800
> Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and
> your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we
> just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse
> Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others-
> 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm.
> For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute
> chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their
> way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the
> all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon
> chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario
> that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just
> stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in
> quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from
> different sources can be from each other. I
> was coming to really like
> the D'Addarios.
> Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America?
> Thanks,
> Dan
> > Dear luthenists
> >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the
New NG
> >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that
way,
> >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure
Aquila
> >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostly
Venice
> >octaves.
> >$
> >I therefore put a 0.44 NG on my 70cm 11c Warwick at 407Hz, and a
42 NG
> >on my 60cm 7c Gerle at 440Hz.
> >$
> >I only have slight direct playing experience with the old
nylgut, as I
> >have mostly used all gut; so my comparison has to be mainly with
treble
> >gut (brightish: Aquila, Keurschner, softer: Baldock and darker:
Gamut,
> >and of course Sofracob).
> >$
> >
> However, I have heard NG on many other people's lutes, and tend to
> >find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like),
particularly when
> >a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish
valve-like).
> >$
> >When I first looked at the New Nylgut, just as Ed Martin has
reported,
> >
[1][2][3]http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg0
2195.h
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Thank you so much about your help Anthony.
This morning I made 100 Kg almost of the Nw Nylgut strings with the
extruder machine. Yesterday I made the NGE type.
Now we need to rectify them ( 5-6 days almost of work) and package
them, that is quite a tedious operation Please give me a bit of
time more; I hope to be able to send such strings to distributors just
after Cristamas.
I amm working to do a good stock so all will be happy.
Mimmo
ginal Message -
From: [1]Anthony Hind
To: [2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 1:47 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Dear Mark
They are available here in Europe, I saw quite a good stock
at
Wolfgang Frueh's when I got several strings; but Mimmo apparently
sold
all his stock at the Greenwich festival.
He was making up new stock, but I don't know whether any had been
sent
out to the US prior to this.
I don't know how fast synthetic string making can be? It has to
be
extruded (which should be quick), but then perhaps also
semi-rectified.
I don't know whether all this is automated, or partly by hand;
but I
did hear that two machines were out of order, recently which
slowed
production down.
Then of course the strings must be packaged, posted etc. Aquila
is not
a huge company, perhaps 30 or so people involved in the NG side
of
things (I would guess); but possibly somethings have to be done
by
Mimmo himself. Certianly all the chemical research and testing
will
have had to be done by Mimmo himself.
$
It is normal practice to have a few people test prototype strings
(usually the same people), and I imagine there may have been
feedback
and slight changes, before the strings were deemed ready for sale
to
the wider public; when further sets of strings may have again
been sent
out to verifiy probable reactions. Sometimes, production goes no
further than these initial tests.
$
I remember when Dan Larson was attempting to make tungsten gimped
strings only a few lutenists had the chance to try them, I
believe
there were even a few gold wire ones. I assume production was
finally
thought to be too expensive, as I believe reactions were quite
positive
to the sound of those strings.
$
I feel sure things will quickly become as it was with the old NG.
It is
not really surprising if there is a slight stutter as things
swing into
motion.
$
Regards
Anthony
__
De : "[3]gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com"
<[4]gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com>
A : Anthony Hind <[5]agno3ph...@yahoo.com>;
[6]dwinh...@comcast.net
Cc : [7]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 3h 31min 16s
Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Curtis Daily of Portland, OR reports that he does not know as yet
when
he will receive a shipment of NNGs.
Luckily, those most worthy are given them by the string gods, and
have
generously reported their virtues.
Thank you, Ed and David.
Mark Seifert
Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Dear Dan
> I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far
more
>experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come
to
quite
>the same conclusions as I did.
>$
>I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon
with
purple
>haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium
Nylon
>fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a
thicker
string
>for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However,
I
think
>the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or
the
NNG
>might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon
(which
ever
>you are used to, possibly).
>$
>The NNG go down to 1.04, I think.
>$
>The US distributor seems to be
>[1][2]http://www.aquilausa.com/
>but I don't know whether they will have the new string.
>$
>Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris
>Anthony
>$
>$
>
>Daniel Winheld
>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Dear Mark
They are available here in Europe, I saw quite a good stock at
Wolfgang Frueh's when I got several strings; but Mimmo apparently sold
all his stock at the Greenwich festival.
He was making up new stock, but I don't know whether any had been sent
out to the US prior to this.
I don't know how fast synthetic string making can be? It has to be
extruded (which should be quick), but then perhaps also semi-rectified.
I don't know whether all this is automated, or partly by hand; but I
did hear that two machines were out of order, recently which slowed
production down.
Then of course the strings must be packaged, posted etc. Aquila is not
a huge company, perhaps 30 or so people involved in the NG side of
things (I would guess); but possibly somethings have to be done by
Mimmo himself. Certianly all the chemical research and testing will
have had to be done by Mimmo himself.
$
It is normal practice to have a few people test prototype strings
(usually the same people), and I imagine there may have been feedback
and slight changes, before the strings were deemed ready for sale to
the wider public; when further sets of strings may have again been sent
out to verifiy probable reactions. Sometimes, production goes no
further than these initial tests.
$
I remember when Dan Larson was attempting to make tungsten gimped
strings only a few lutenists had the chance to try them, I believe
there were even a few gold wire ones. I assume production was finally
thought to be too expensive, as I believe reactions were quite positive
to the sound of those strings.
$
I feel sure things will quickly become as it was with the old NG. It is
not really surprising if there is a slight stutter as things swing into
motion.
$
Regards
Anthony
__
De : "gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com"
A : Anthony Hind ; dwinh...@comcast.net
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Lun 20 decembre 2010, 3h 31min 16s
Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Curtis Daily of Portland, OR reports that he does not know as yet when
he will receive a shipment of NNGs.
Luckily, those most worthy are given them by the string gods, and have
generously reported their virtues.
Thank you, Ed and David.
Mark Seifert
Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Dear Dan
> I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more
>experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to
quite
>the same conclusions as I did.
>$
>I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with
purple
>haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon
>fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker
string
>for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I
think
>the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the
NNG
>might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which
ever
>you are used to, possibly).
>$
>The NNG go down to 1.04, I think.
>$
>The US distributor seems to be
>[1][2]http://www.aquilausa.com/
>but I don't know whether they will have the new string.
>$
>Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris
>Anthony
>$
>$
>
>Daniel Winheld
>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800
> Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and
> your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we
> just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse
> Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others-
> 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm.
> For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute
> chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their
> way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the
> all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon
> chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario
> that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just
> stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in
> quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from
> different sources can be from each other. I
> was coming to really like
> the D'Addarios.
> Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America?
> Thanks,
> Dan
> > Dear luthenists
> >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to u
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
my "new" nylgut arrived today. I ordered it last week from Mathias Wagner. It really looks like gut-strings. greetings w. Original-Nachricht > Datum: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:05:43 -0600 > Von: Edward Martin > An: Daniel Winheld , lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle > Curtis, at Aquila USA. I do not know if he has them in stock > yet. Last time I heard from Curtis, he was still awaiting delivery > from Italy. Remember, it often takes more than a month for mailing > something from Italy. At least, that is my experience (when Mimmo > mails something from Italy, it takes it a long time for the package > to get out of Italy - sometimes a month - when it gets out of Italy, > it arrives soon). > > ed > > At 11:10 AM 12/19/2010, Daniel Winheld wrote: > >Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Curtis Daily of Portland, OR reports that he does not know as yet when he will receive a shipment of NNGs. Luckily, those most worthy are given them by the string gods, and have generously reported their virtues. Thank you, Ed and David. Mark Seifert Anthony Hind wrote: > >Dear Dan > I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more >experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to quite >the same conclusions as I did. >$ >I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with purple >haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon >fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker string >for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I think >the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the NNG >might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which ever >you are used to, possibly). >$ >The NNG go down to 1.04, I think. >$ >The US distributor seems to be >[1]http://www.aquilausa.com/ >but I don't know whether they will have the new string. >$ >Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris >Anthony >$ >$ > >Daniel Winheld >Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800 > Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and > your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we > just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse > Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others- > 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm. > For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute > chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their > way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the > all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon > chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario > that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just > stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in > quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from > different sources can be from each other. I > was coming to really like > the D'Addarios. > Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? > Thanks, > Dan > > Dear luthenists > >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the New NG > >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that way, > >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure Aquila > >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostly Venice > >octaves. > >$ > >I therefore put a 0.44 NG on my 70cm 11c Warwick at 407Hz, and a 42 NG > >on my 60cm 7c Gerle at 440Hz. > >$ > >I only have slight direct playing experience with the old nylgut, as I > >have mostly used all gut; so my comparison has to be mainly with treble > >gut (brightish: Aquila, Keurschner, softer: Baldock and darker: Gamut, > >and of course Sofracob). > >$ > > > However, I have heard NG on many other people's lutes, and tend to > >find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like), particularly when > >a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish valve-like). > >$ > >When I first looked at the New Nylgut, just as Ed Martin has reported, > > > > [1][2]http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg02195.h > >tml > >my initial impression was that the feel was much better than the old > >nylgut, and that the colour was closer to gut, although still slightly > >whiter than Aquila gut, but certainly nothing noticeable at, say, a > >meter's distance. > >$ > >I was a little surprised when setting light to the end of the string > >(as one does) to find that it broke into flame. I swiftly put it > out, > >and all was well (I dare say that is always what happens with > >synthetics), a little ball had formed without splitting the string as > >sometimes happens with gut. > >$ > >The second surprise was when I started to raise the tension of the 44NG > >on the 70cm lute. There was a sudden stretch, with quite a few extra > >turns of the peg (compared with gut), before some stabilisation set-in. > >I wondered about this, as it had been said that the new string was less > >flexible than the old Nylgut. In fact, I didn't notice this so much > >with the 42NG on the 60cm lute. > >However, in both cases, when the string has finally stabilised, it did > >feel about as stiff as gut (and certainly stiffer than the old nylgut). > >$ > >I think Ed is quite right to have left his New Nylgut strings to settle > >for a day and a night before > testing them. I put the chanterelle on in > >the morning, and tried it out on the 70cm lute in the afternoon. My > >initial impression was of loudness, as mentionned by Ed
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
407 is such a good pitch for lute. Don't be so darn cheap. Cough up another ยข2 and you can have 409, which is even better. Getting close to winter solstice- watch out for seasonal affective disorder and wandering frets. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
>" I wonder whether the D'Addario string was titanium T2 nylon with purple haze?" "Purple Haze"? If that is a special Jimi Hendrix Classical guitar string, it seems like fusion gone totally amok. No, this D'Addario string is just rectified nylon, which gives the illusion of being more harmonically true; seeming to have less extraneous noise, or perhaps less of the feeling of musical "deadness" that I can't escape sensing from nylon strings, on even the best lutes. It is still essentially a cold sound, wrong color: "... tend to find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like), particularly when a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish valve-like,)" -Perfect description of nylon vs. the 2nd course gut on my lute. But the brightness of the overall sound makes this tolerable- for now- to my ears. Sometimes one puts up with a marginally acceptable sound until cumulative annoyance makes them suddenly intolerable. I would like to get some of the new Nylgut before this event occurs. Dan > Dear Dan > I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more >experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to quite >the same conclusions as I did. > >I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with purple >haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon >fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker string >for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I think >the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the NNG >might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which ever >you are used to, possibly). > >The NNG go down to 1.04, I think. > >The US distributor seems to be >[1]http://www.aquilausa.com/ >but I don't know whether they will have the new string. > >Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris >Anthony > > >Daniel Winheld >Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800 >Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and >your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we >just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse >Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others- >4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm. >For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute >chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their >way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the >all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon >chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario >that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just >stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in >quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from >different sources can be from each other. I > was coming to really like >the D'Addarios. >Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? >Thanks, >Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
407 is such a good pitch for lute. At 08:33 AM 12/19/2010, you wrote: >Dear luthenists >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the New NG >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that way, >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure Aquila >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostly Venice >octaves. >$ >I therefore put a 0.44 NG on my 70cm 11c Warwick at 407Hz, and a 42 NG >on my 60cm 7c Gerle at 440Hz. >$ >I only have slight direct playing experience with the old nylgut, as I >have mostly used all gut; so my comparison has to be mainly with treble >gut (brightish: Aquila, Keurschner, softer: Baldock and darker: Gamut, >and of course Sofracob). >$ >However, I have heard NG on many other people's lutes, and tend to >find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like), particularly when >a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish valve-like). >$ >When I first looked at the New Nylgut, just as Ed Martin has reported, >[1]http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg02195.h >tml >my initial impression was that the feel was much better than the old >nylgut, and that the colour was closer to gut, although still slightly >whiter than Aquila gut, but certainly nothing noticeable at, say, a >meter's distance. >$ >I was a little surprised when setting light to the end of the string >(as one does) to find that it broke into flame. I swiftly put it out, >and all was well (I dare say that is always what happens with >synthetics), a little ball had formed without splitting the string as >sometimes happens with gut. >$ >The second surprise was when I started to raise the tension of the 44NG >on the 70cm lute. There was a sudden stretch, with quite a few extra >turns of the peg (compared with gut), before some stabilisation set-in. >I wondered about this, as it had been said that the new string was less >flexible than the old Nylgut. In fact, I didn't notice this so much >with the 42NG on the 60cm lute. >However, in both cases, when the string has finally stabilised, it did >feel about as stiff as gut (and certainly stiffer than the old nylgut). >$ >I think Ed is quite right to have left his New Nylgut strings to settle >for a day and a night before testing them. I put the chanterelle on in >the morning, and tried it out on the 70cm lute in the afternoon. My >initial impression was of loudness, as mentionned by Ed, but with a >slightly over-bright sound, and more surface noise pick up than on the >older lower gut trebles. >This, however had more or less dissappeared by the second day. The >string remains fairly bright yet warmer than the Old Nylgut, but with >excellent sustain. I now feel it blends in rather well with the lower >gut Aquila trebles. >$ >I have often remarked that a string can lend its qualities and defects >to surrounding strings, but I hadn't noticed to what extent this was >true of a chanterelle. All the treble strings, particularly on my >Renaissance lute, seemed to have gained slightly in sustain and >dynamics from the new string. I liked this, but some may prefer a >slightly duller sound. >$ >The string seems about as stiff under the finger as an Aquila gut top >string; and I would hazard a guess that it is this string ideal (his >strong treble) that Mimmo was striving to achieve, with a good strong >clear sound. >Now I wonder whether it would blend in quite so well with softer Gamut >or Baldock lower trebles? >$ >I noticed that the 70cm string took longer to stabilze than the 60cm >one. I don't know whether that was due to the difference in length or >in thickness, but two days is not very long, and lutenists do have to >be patient. It was confirmed for me by a serious nylgut user that this >new string does stabilise quicker than the Old Nylgut. >$ >I personally thought there was quite a big difference between the old >and the new type, and this would seem to be the opinion of some other >gut users (Ed and a neighbour who tried my two lutes). >However, nylgut users (and lovers), from discussions on the net, do not >seem to be quite so conscious of the difference. One serious Nylgut >user told me that they were about 97% the same as the old nylgut, but >with better colour and stability, as well as greater clarity on the top >string. >Gut users probably have different expectations of a string, and I feel >that the New Nylgut, at least as a chanterelle, gets closer to my ideal >than the old one did. >This is my opinion, based on my own string experience, which will >evidently vary from player to player. >$ >In short, Mimmo seems to have combined his s
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Dear Dan I am glad this may be a help, but I see you have far more experience of nylon strings than I have, so you may not come to quite the same conclusions as I did. $ I wonder whether the Adario string was titanium T2 nylon with purple haze? If so it might have something in common with Titanium Nylon fishing line. It would be quite low density allowing a thicker string for the same weight (as I mentionned, once before). However, I think the T2 could seem quite reserved, if compared to the NNG; or the NNG might be heard as quite bright when compared to Ti Nylon (which ever you are used to, possibly). $ The NNG go down to 1.04, I think. $ The US distributor seems to be [1]http://www.aquilausa.com/ but I don't know whether they will have the new string. $ Best wishes from snow-sludgy Paris Anthony $ $ Daniel Winheld Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:12:34 -0800 Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others- 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm. For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from different sources can be from each other. I was coming to really like the D'Addarios. Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? Thanks, Dan > Dear luthenists >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the New NG >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that way, >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure Aquila >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostly Venice >octaves. >$ >I therefore put a 0.44 NG on my 70cm 11c Warwick at 407Hz, and a 42 NG >on my 60cm 7c Gerle at 440Hz. >$ >I only have slight direct playing experience with the old nylgut, as I >have mostly used all gut; so my comparison has to be mainly with treble >gut (brightish: Aquila, Keurschner, softer: Baldock and darker: Gamut, >and of course Sofracob). >$ > However, I have heard NG on many other people's lutes, and tend to >find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like), particularly when >a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish valve-like). >$ >When I first looked at the New Nylgut, just as Ed Martin has reported, >[1][2]http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg02195.h >tml >my initial impression was that the feel was much better than the old >nylgut, and that the colour was closer to gut, although still slightly >whiter than Aquila gut, but certainly nothing noticeable at, say, a >meter's distance. >$ >I was a little surprised when setting light to the end of the string >(as one does) to find that it broke into flame. I swiftly put it out, >and all was well (I dare say that is always what happens with >synthetics), a little ball had formed without splitting the string as >sometimes happens with gut. >$ >The second surprise was when I started to raise the tension of the 44NG >on the 70cm lute. There was a sudden stretch, with quite a few extra >turns of the peg (compared with gut), before some stabilisation set-in. >I wondered about this, as it had been said that the new string was less >flexible than the old Nylgut. In fact, I didn't notice this so much >with the 42NG on the 60cm lute. >However, in both cases, when the string has finally stabilised, it did >feel about as stiff as gut (and certainly stiffer than the old nylgut). >$ >I think Ed is quite right to have left his New Nylgut strings to settle >for a day and a night before testing them. I put the chanterelle on in >the morning, and tried it out on the 70cm lute in the afternoon. My >initial impression was of loudness, as mentionned by Ed, but with a >slightly over-bright sound, and more surface noise pick up than on the >older lower gut trebles. >This, however had more or less dissappeared by the second day. The >string remains fairly bright yet warmer than the Old Nylgut, but with >excellent sustain. I now feel it blends in rather well with the lower >gut Aquila trebles. >$ >I have often remarked that a string can lend its qualities and defects >to surrounding strings, bu
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Curtis, at Aquila USA. I do not know if he has them in stock yet. Last time I heard from Curtis, he was still awaiting delivery from Italy. Remember, it often takes more than a month for mailing something from Italy. At least, that is my experience (when Mimmo mails something from Italy, it takes it a long time for the package to get out of Italy - sometimes a month - when it gets out of Italy, it arrives soon). ed At 11:10 AM 12/19/2010, Daniel Winheld wrote: >Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Nylgut test as Chanterelle
Thank you, Anthony- just the kind of report that you do so well, and your results will spur me on to get some of the new nylguts (Shall we just call them "NNG"?) - chanterelles for my new workhorse Renaissance lute and as far down as possible on some of the others- 4th course & possibly 5th, if they go as thick as about 1.05 mm. For the last month or so I have been using plain nylon on the R-lute chanterelle, as even the most durable guts have all shredded their way to Gut String Heaven- so the blending of that string with the all-gut rest of the lute matters very much. The best nylon chanterelle by far that I found was a .46 mm (.018") by D'Addario that a student of mine found at a guitar store- but they have just stopped making that size. I have been surprised at how different in quality, feel, and other subtle factors that nylon strings from different sources can be from each other. I was coming to really like the D'Addarios. Anyone know who is dealing the new Nylguts in North America? Thanks, Dan > Dear luthenists >Since I believe many gut users will be tempted to use the New NG >for Chanterelles on their lutes, I decided to test them that way, >while keeping all my other strings in gut : my trebles in pure Aquila >gut, my Meanes as Venices, and my bases loaded with mostly Venice >octaves. >$ >I therefore put a 0.44 NG on my 70cm 11c Warwick at 407Hz, and a 42 NG >on my 60cm 7c Gerle at 440Hz. >$ >I only have slight direct playing experience with the old nylgut, as I >have mostly used all gut; so my comparison has to be mainly with treble >gut (brightish: Aquila, Keurschner, softer: Baldock and darker: Gamut, >and of course Sofracob). >$ >However, I have heard NG on many other people's lutes, and tend to >find them coldish sounding (bluish transistor-like), particularly when >a lutenist uses them with warm loaded basses (reddish valve-like). >$ >When I first looked at the New Nylgut, just as Ed Martin has reported, >[1]http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg02195.h >tml >my initial impression was that the feel was much better than the old >nylgut, and that the colour was closer to gut, although still slightly >whiter than Aquila gut, but certainly nothing noticeable at, say, a >meter's distance. >$ >I was a little surprised when setting light to the end of the string >(as one does) to find that it broke into flame. I swiftly put it out, >and all was well (I dare say that is always what happens with >synthetics), a little ball had formed without splitting the string as >sometimes happens with gut. >$ >The second surprise was when I started to raise the tension of the 44NG >on the 70cm lute. There was a sudden stretch, with quite a few extra >turns of the peg (compared with gut), before some stabilisation set-in. >I wondered about this, as it had been said that the new string was less >flexible than the old Nylgut. In fact, I didn't notice this so much >with the 42NG on the 60cm lute. >However, in both cases, when the string has finally stabilised, it did >feel about as stiff as gut (and certainly stiffer than the old nylgut). >$ >I think Ed is quite right to have left his New Nylgut strings to settle >for a day and a night before testing them. I put the chanterelle on in >the morning, and tried it out on the 70cm lute in the afternoon. My >initial impression was of loudness, as mentionned by Ed, but with a >slightly over-bright sound, and more surface noise pick up than on the >older lower gut trebles. >This, however had more or less dissappeared by the second day. The >string remains fairly bright yet warmer than the Old Nylgut, but with >excellent sustain. I now feel it blends in rather well with the lower >gut Aquila trebles. >$ >I have often remarked that a string can lend its qualities and defects >to surrounding strings, but I hadn't noticed to what extent this was >true of a chanterelle. All the treble strings, particularly on my >Renaissance lute, seemed to have gained slightly in sustain and >dynamics from the new string. I liked this, but some may prefer a >slightly duller sound. >$ >The string seems about as stiff under the finger as an Aquila gut top >string; and I would hazard a guess that it is this string ideal (his >strong treble) that Mimmo was striving to achieve, with a good strong >clear sound. >Now I wonder whether it would blend in quite so well with softer Gamut >or Baldock lower trebles? >$ >I noticed that the 70cm string took longer to stabilze than the 60cm >one. I don't know whether that was due to the difference in length or >in thickness, but two days is not very long, and lutenists do have to >be patient. It was confirmed for me by a serious ny
