[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
All kinds, including g-to-g'' mandolino/mandola? Eugene - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Harmony Assistant from Myriad is worth a look. It does tab too and has presets for all kinds of lutes. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Thank you Eugene, I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a keyboard than by writing it). I might stick to photocopied MS parts Martyn --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote: From: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? To: 'Lute Dmth' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 2:56 PM Another nice facility of the full version of Finale over the very severely limited Finale Notepad is that the full version of Finale does have a fully-functional Rapid Entry tool based entirely upon keystrokes. With a little practice, the basics of notation move very quickly with it. .And did I mention that the pared down Notepad is no longer free!? As a free download, Finale Notepad served purpose as an introduction to notation software. Personally, I don't think paying anything at all for Notepad is warranted. I'd favor darkly penciled staff paper and a decent scanner over actually paying for Notepad. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: William Brohinsky [mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM To: Lute Dmth Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? Caveats for Finale Notepad: This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the limitations can be stultifying. You cannot change keysignature once it has been established. (that alone is stuldtifying!) Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include 5- or 6- string bass (which may not be a problem) Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't. Only one verse of lyrics. There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them: the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need and don't get. Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without, or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly. If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has always been too expensive. Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music into notation. This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and WYSIAYG=What you see is all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're stuck with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter: you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.) I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard school, so I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond, but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free. Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and displaying often. For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece. lilypond.org is a good place to visit. Ray On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote: Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared, just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line breaks, bars- no bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one complains about my handwriting! alexander On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT) Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Thank you Eugene, I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a keyboard than by writing it). I might stick to photocopied MS parts Martyn --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
I think amongst those who use notation software with somewhat professional intent, some manner of keystroke entry is key and certainly key to efficiency. Point and click entry is too slow and too toy-like. Eugene - Original Message - From: alexander voka...@verizon.net Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:33 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: 'Lute Dmth' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared, just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line breaks, bars- no bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one complains about my handwriting!alexander On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT) Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Thank you Eugene, I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a keyboard than by writing it). I might stick to photocopied MS parts Martyn --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Thank keyboard concept of yours sounds really interesting, can you post a picture of that keyboard? Thanks! On Feb 14, 2009, at 3:30 PM, alexander wrote: If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared, just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line breaks, bars- no bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one complains about my handwriting! alexander On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT) Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Thank you Eugene, I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a keyboard than by writing it). I might stick to photocopied MS parts Martyn --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
I have all the most needed symbols right under the fingers, plus the usual outlay under a modifier key (left Alt), to be able to type up markups. Don't know about a picture of the keyboard, but here is my .xmodmap file ( c-d-e-f instead of z-x-c-v; r [for the rest] -g-a-b instead of a-s-d-f;, in the right 1-2-4-8 instead of l-;-'-Enter, and so on): keycode 0x09 = Escape keycode 0x43 = F1 XF86_Switch_VT_1 keycode 0x44 = F2 XF86_Switch_VT_2 keycode 0x45 = F3 XF86_Switch_VT_3 keycode 0x46 = F4 XF86_Switch_VT_4 keycode 0x47 = F5 XF86_Switch_VT_5 keycode 0x48 = F6 XF86_Switch_VT_6 keycode 0x49 = F7 XF86_Switch_VT_7 keycode 0x4A = F8 XF86_Switch_VT_8 keycode 0x4B = F9 XF86_Switch_VT_9 keycode 0x4C = F10 XF86_Switch_VT_10 keycode 0x5F = F11 XF86_Switch_VT_11 keycode 0x60 = F12 XF86_Switch_VT_12 keycode 159 = F13 keycode 178 = F14 keycode 236 = F15 keycode 151 = F16 keycode 0x6F = Print Sys_Req keycode 0x4E = Scroll_Lock keycode 0x6E = Pause Break keycode 0x31 = grave asciitilde keycode 0x0A = 1 exclam keycode 0x0B = 2 at keycode 0x0C = 3 numbersign keycode 0x0D = 4 dollar keycode 0x0E = 5 percent keycode 0x0F = 6 asciicircum keycode 0x10 = 7 ampersand keycode 0x11 = 8 asterisk keycode 0x12 = 9 parenleft keycode 0x13 = 0 parenright keycode 0x14 = minus underscore keycode 0x15 = equal plus keycode 0x16 = BackSpace Terminate_Server keycode 0x6A = Insert keycode 0x61 = Home keycode 0x63 = Prior keycode 0x52 = asciitilde asciitilde keycode 0x17 = Tab keycode 0x18 = r R q keycode 0x19 = g bracketleft w keycode 0x1A = a bracketrighte keycode 0x1B = b r r keycode 0x1C = R t t keycode 0x1D = backslash y y keycode 0x1E = s s u keycode 0x1F = backslash i i keycode 0x20 = s o o keycode 0x21 = e p p keycode 0x22 = i braceleft keycode 0x23 = 8 braceright keycode 0x17 = apostrophe keycode 0x24 = 8 apostrophe keycode 0x6B = Delete keycode 0x67 = End keycode 0x69 = Return keycode 0x4F = lesss keycode 0x50 = greater e keycode 0x51 = 8 8 keycode 0x56 = 1 apostrophe keycode 0x42 = Shift_L keycode 0x26 = r R a keycode 0x27 = g lesss keycode 0x28 = a greater d keycode 0x29 = b f f keycode 0x2A = r R g keycode 0x2B = period h h keycode 0x2C = s s j keycode 0x2D = 6 i k keycode 0x2E = 1 asteriskl keycode 0x2F = 2 asciitilde6 keycode 0x30 = 4 asciitilde keycode 0x33 = apostrophe bracketright keycode 0x53 = s apostrophe keycode 0x54 = i 8 keycode 0x55 = colon colon keycode 0x32 = Shift_L keycode 0x5E = lessgreater bar brokenbar bar brokenbar keycode 0x34 = c z z keycode 0x35 = d braceleft x keycode 0x36 = e braceright c keycode 0x37 = f v v keycode 0x38 = comma R b keycode 0x39 = 1 comma n keycode 0x3A = apostrophe m m keycode 0x3B = comma asciitilde keycode 0x3C = comma asciitilde keycode 0x3D = apostrophe exclam keycode 0x3E = 6 keycode 0x62 = Up keycode 0x57 = s s keycode 0x58 = e i keycode 0x59 = comma apostrophe keycode 0x6C = Return Return keycode 0x25 = Control_L keycode 0x73 = BackSpace keycode 0x40 = Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift keycode 0x41 = space keycode 0x71 = period asciitilde keycode 0x74 = Super_R keycode 0x75 = comma R keycode 0x6D = comma keycode 0x64 = Left keycode 0x68 = Down keycode 0x66 = Right keycode 0x5A = 2 colon keycode 0x5B = 8 greater clear Shift clear Lock clear Control clear Mod1 clear Mod2 clear Mod3 clear Mod4 clear Mod5 addShift = Shift_L Shift_R addLock= Caps_Lock addControl = Control_L Control_R addMod1= Alt_L addMod2= Num_Lock addMod5= Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:42:54 +0200 Omer Katzir kome...@gmail.com wrote: Thank keyboard concept of yours sounds really interesting, can you post a
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
To be productive with tex I needed to use an editor like kile so I don't have to use a text console constantly. With lilypond I found frescobaldi which is similar to the editors you use with tex, It really just gets you out of the console. When using kile with tex you get a library of commands you can insert into your document for convenience. Frescobaldi doesn't have that level of functionality yet but you get a nice gui which is better than using a console. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? (text editors)
My advice is to pick xemacs as your text editor. You will never have to learn another in your life: either it is cut short climbing the learning curve, or you reach the Elysian Fields. Peter. On Sat, 14 Feb 2009, Kenneth M Berry wrote: To be productive with tex I needed to use an editor like kile so I don't have to use a text console constantly. With lilypond I found frescobaldi which is similar to the editors you use with tex, It really just gets you out of the console. When using kile with tex you get a library of commands you can insert into your document for convenience. Frescobaldi doesn't have that level of functionality yet but you get a nice gui which is better than using a console. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html the next auto-quote is: Man enjoys the great advantage of having a God endorse the codes he writes; and since man exercises a sovereign authority over woman, it is especially fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being. (Simone de Beauvoir) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
For ensemble playing, computer generated staff notation is a major time saver (Finale, in my case). It's not just the time it takes to enter the notes. I've obtained a number of pieces from Werner Icking for our loud band, and discovered that they didn't quite fit on one or more instruments. Transposing the piece up or down, adjusting line or page breaks, breaking the piece out as parts, switching the tenor part from Treble to Bass clef to accommodate the sackbuts, takes almost no time. The MIDI playback is also a very useful feature for catching entry mistakes. I find it a lot easier to spot a wrong note by listening (even if the sound is rather tinny) than just peering at the text. BTW, Finale has several SKUs, with increasing feature sets. PrintMusic, which is around $100, works fine for me and is a good bit less expensive than the full-blown version. Guy -Original Message- From: alexander [mailto:voka...@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:30 AM To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: 'Lute Dmth'; Eugene C. Braig IV Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared, just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line breaks, bars- no bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one complains about my handwriting! alexander On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT) Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Thank you Eugene, I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a keyboard than by writing it). I might stick to photocopied MS parts Martyn --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Try Lilypond. It's not like Finale or Sibelius, but it's much better, and free. It's take a while to hang on in it, but it worth the time. On Feb 13, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Martyn, if you are happy with a somewhat old-fashioned user interface (i.e. typing in text, like to 'tab') have a look at abctab2ps, which can produce beautiful scores and handle lute tablature as well. [1]http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ Best regards Jan Johansson On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:24 , Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk sent: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/modules/refer.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F%7Ewbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad' which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com Best wishes, Denys Quoting Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:32 AM, denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote: Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad' which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com I'd second that: excellent program. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
-Original Message- From: Taco Walstra [mailto:wals...@science.uva.nl] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:51 AM To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? On Friday 13 February 2009, Martyn Hodgson rattled on the keyboard: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- For Free software you need to look into the open source world and this often means quit using windows and start with Linux. I have been using freeware like MikTeX, ghostview, tab, compilers, tools, .. on Windows NT and XP for MANY years now. All these programs do not run easily on windows, but it's possible to install even on windows or apple OS a virtual pc with linux where you can run this. This is not true. In the past installing Lilypond on a Windows system was a nightmare but now it is very easy. Best wishes, Rainer aus dem Spring IT Business Solutions Division Tel.: +49 211-5296-355 Fax.: +49 211-5296-405 SMTP: rspringaus...@tee.toshiba.de CONFIDENTIALITY DISCLAIMER The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose outside of any NDA currently existing between Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH and yourselves. Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH Hansaallee 181 - 40549 Duesseldorf - Germany Phone: +49 (211) 5296-0 - Fax: +49 (211) 5296-400 Handelsregister Duesseldorf HRB 22487 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Hitoshi Otsuka Amtsgericht Duesseldorf To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
O All these programs do not run easily on windows, but it's possible to install even on windows or apple OS a virtual pc with linux where you can run this. This is not true. In the past installing Lilypond on a Windows system was a nightmare but now it is very easy Denemo, NoteEdit, Rosegarden are not windows applications. They are all gtk (gnome) or kde windowmanager based. taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Caveats for Finale Notepad: This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the limitations can be stultifying. You cannot change keysignature once it has been established. (that alone is stuldtifying!) Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include 5- or 6- string bass (which may not be a problem) Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't. Only one verse of lyrics. There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them: the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need and don't get. Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without, or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly. If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has always been too expensive. Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music into notation. This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and WYSIAYG=What you see is all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're stuck with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter: you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.) I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard school, so I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond, but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free. Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and displaying often. For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece. lilypond.org is a good place to visit. Ray On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote: Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad' which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com Best wishes, Denys To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Finale Notepad does have some pretty severe limitations (or at least did) compared to the full version, like the inability to notate modulation or time signature changes. However, its greatest current limitation may be that the new version of Notepad is no longer free. You can download it for US$9.95 or order it on CD for US$19.95. Eugene -Original Message- From: denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk [mailto:denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 AM To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Lute Dmth Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad' which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com Best wishes, Denys Quoting Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Another nice facility of the full version of Finale over the very severely limited Finale Notepad is that the full version of Finale does have a fully-functional Rapid Entry tool based entirely upon keystrokes. With a little practice, the basics of notation move very quickly with it. ..And did I mention that the pared down Notepad is no longer free!? As a free download, Finale Notepad served purpose as an introduction to notation software. Personally, I don't think paying anything at all for Notepad is warranted. I'd favor darkly penciled staff paper and a decent scanner over actually paying for Notepad. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: William Brohinsky [mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM To: Lute Dmth Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? Caveats for Finale Notepad: This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the limitations can be stultifying. You cannot change keysignature once it has been established. (that alone is stuldtifying!) Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include 5- or 6- string bass (which may not be a problem) Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't. Only one verse of lyrics. There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them: the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need and don't get. Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without, or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly. If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has always been too expensive. Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music into notation. This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and WYSIAYG=What you see is all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're stuck with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter: you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.) I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard school, so I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond, but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free. Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and displaying often. For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece. lilypond.org is a good place to visit. Ray On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote: Dear Martyn, There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad' which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com Best wishes, Denys To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk said: Several have mentioned lilypond. It is a work in progress and has demonstrated to me a lot of growing pains and inconsistancies. It can do nice work, but at some cost; rather like the initial versions of Quark Express. You will need lots of room on disk for the help files. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
Martyn-- I'll second the recommendation for abctab2ps. It does a variety of tab styles as well as staff notation (multiple staves, an assortment of clefs, lyrics), and tab with staff. And it's free. Christoph Dalitz keeps the program well-maintained, and the manual for it is very clear. Runs on Mac or PC. Christoph is very helpful with set up and questions. Certainly worth a try. I can send you some ps or pdf samples if you'd like. Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ On 2/13/09 4:16 AM, j...@horseforce.se j...@horseforce.se wrote: Martyn, if you are happy with a somewhat old-fashioned user interface (i.e. typing in text, like to 'tab') have a look at abctab2ps, which can produce beautiful scores and handle lute tablature as well. [1]http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ Best regards Jan Johansson On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:24 , Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk sent: I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications, but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but perhaps it's the best there is? MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/modules/refer.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fww w.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F%7Ewbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html
