[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-22 Thread EUGENE BRAIG IV
   All kinds, including g-to-g'' mandolino/mandola?
   Eugene
   - Original Message -
   From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
   To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Harmony Assistant from Myriad is worth a look. It does tab too
and
has presets for all kinds of lutes.
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --



[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread Martyn Hodgson


   Thank you Eugene,

   I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be
   producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the
   appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I
   can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a
   keyboard than by writing it).  I might stick to photocopied MS
   parts

   Martyn
   --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote:

 From: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
 To: 'Lute Dmth' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 2:56 PM
Another nice facility of the full version of Finale over the very severely
limited Finale Notepad is that the full version of Finale does have a
fully-functional Rapid Entry tool based entirely upon keystrokes.
With a
little practice, the basics of notation move very quickly with it.

.And did I mention that the pared down Notepad is no longer free!?  As a
free download, Finale Notepad served purpose as an introduction to notation
software.  Personally, I don't think paying anything at all for Notepad is
warranted.  I'd favor darkly penciled staff paper and a decent scanner over
actually paying for Notepad.

Best,
Eugene


 -Original Message-
 From: William Brohinsky [mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM
 To: Lute Dmth
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

 Caveats for Finale Notepad:

 This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you
 get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin
 staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk
 with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the
 limitations can be stultifying.

 You cannot change keysignature once it has been established.
 (that alone is stuldtifying!)
 Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include
5- or 6-
 string bass (which may not be a problem)
 Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one
 score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't.
 Only one verse of lyrics.
 There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them:
 the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are
 included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need
 and don't get.

 Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you
 need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without,
 or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly.

 If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth
 taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get
 them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises
 to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has
always
 been too expensive.

 Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a
 way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music
 into notation.

 This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the
 WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and
WYSIAYG=What you see is
 all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and
 the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and
 WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're
stuck
 with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can
 pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend
 your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter:
 you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get
 to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate
 money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with
 Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation
 WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program
 like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going
 to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with
 doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.)

 I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard
school, so
 I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond,
 but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a
 minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free.
 Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which
 you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by
 simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't
 leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and
 displaying often.

 For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript
 separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece.

 lilypond.org is a good place to visit.

 Ray

 On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM,  denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk
wrote:
  Dear Martyn,
  There is a simplified free

[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread alexander
If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen 
(actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To 
produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths 
than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then 
i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results 
improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing 
here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values 
in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared, just enter 
the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to 
produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. 
The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line 
breaks, bars- no  bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on a 
flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one 
complains about my handwriting!
alexander


On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT)
Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 
 
Thank you Eugene,
 
I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be
producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the
appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I
can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a
keyboard than by writing it).  I might stick to photocopied MS
parts
 
Martyn
--- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote:
 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread EUGENE BRAIG IV
I think amongst those who use notation software with somewhat professional 
intent, some manner of keystroke entry is key and certainly key to efficiency.  
Point and click entry is too slow and too toy-like.

Eugene

- Original Message -
From: alexander voka...@verizon.net
Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:33 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: 'Lute Dmth' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu

 If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I 
 used pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for 
 years and years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple 
 part with a fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self 
 will be able to read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few 
 programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with results 
 improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes 
 (no bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names 
 under left fingers and values in the right, and have templates 
 for every possible set-up prepared, just enter the notes). The 
 learning curve (though the improvement never actually stops) to 
 produce the very first good part, was about two - three hours. 
 The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, 
 sizes, line breaks, bars- no  bar lines, ad intinitum, and 
 the whole library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a 
 printer in the rehearsal room, and no one complains about my 
 handwriting!alexander
 
 
 On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT)
 Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 
  
  
     Thank you Eugene,
  
     I use pen and paper copies now but, since so 
 many collegues seem to be
     producing computer set parts these days, 
 thought that using the
     appropriate software might not be as time 
 consuming as I feared (I
     can't quite believe that it takes less time 
 to enter a note via a
     keyboard than by writing it).  I might 
 stick to photocopied MS
     parts
  
     Martyn
     --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV 
 brai...@osu.edu wrote:
  
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread Omer Katzir
Thank keyboard concept of yours sounds really interesting, can you  
post a picture of that keyboard?


Thanks!

On Feb 14, 2009, at 3:30 PM, alexander wrote:

If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used  
pen (actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and  
years. To produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a  
fair number of 16ths than someone else besides self will be able to  
read took about 30 minutes. Then i tried a few programs, and went by  
reducing the time needed, with results improved. The same part on  
Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no bluffing here, - i have  
set the keyboard with note names under left fingers and values in  
the right, and have templates for every possible set-up prepared,  
just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement  
never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about  
two - three hours.
The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes,  
line breaks, bars- no  bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole  
library of music on a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the  
rehearsal room, and no one complains about my handwriting!

alexander


On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT)
Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:




  Thank you Eugene,

  I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem  
to be

  producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the
  appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I
  can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a
  keyboard than by writing it).  I might stick to photocopied MS
  parts

  Martyn
  --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote:





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread alexander
I have all the most needed symbols right under the fingers, plus the usual 
outlay under a modifier key (left Alt), to be able to type up markups. Don't 
know about a picture of the keyboard, but here is my .xmodmap file ( c-d-e-f 
instead of z-x-c-v; r [for the rest] -g-a-b instead of a-s-d-f;, in the right 
1-2-4-8 instead of l-;-'-Enter, and so on):

keycode 0x09 =  Escape
keycode 0x43 =  F1  XF86_Switch_VT_1
keycode 0x44 =  F2  XF86_Switch_VT_2
keycode 0x45 =  F3  XF86_Switch_VT_3
keycode 0x46 =  F4  XF86_Switch_VT_4
keycode 0x47 =  F5  XF86_Switch_VT_5
keycode 0x48 =  F6  XF86_Switch_VT_6
keycode 0x49 =  F7  XF86_Switch_VT_7
keycode 0x4A =  F8  XF86_Switch_VT_8
keycode 0x4B =  F9  XF86_Switch_VT_9
keycode 0x4C =  F10 XF86_Switch_VT_10
keycode 0x5F =  F11 XF86_Switch_VT_11
keycode 0x60 =  F12 XF86_Switch_VT_12
keycode 159  =  F13
keycode 178  =  F14
keycode 236  =  F15
keycode 151  =  F16
keycode 0x6F =  Print   Sys_Req
keycode 0x4E =  Scroll_Lock
keycode 0x6E =  Pause   Break
keycode 0x31 =  grave   asciitilde
keycode 0x0A =  1   exclam
keycode 0x0B =  2   at
keycode 0x0C =  3   numbersign
keycode 0x0D =  4   dollar
keycode 0x0E =  5   percent
keycode 0x0F =  6   asciicircum
keycode 0x10 =  7   ampersand
keycode 0x11 =  8   asterisk
keycode 0x12 =  9   parenleft
keycode 0x13 =  0   parenright
keycode 0x14 =  minus   underscore
keycode 0x15 =  equal   plus
keycode 0x16 =  BackSpace   Terminate_Server
keycode 0x6A =  Insert
keycode 0x61 =  Home
keycode 0x63 =  Prior
keycode 0x52 =  asciitilde  asciitilde
keycode 0x17 =  Tab 
keycode 0x18 =  r   R   q
keycode 0x19 =  g   bracketleft w
keycode 0x1A =  a   bracketrighte
keycode 0x1B =  b   r   r
keycode 0x1C =  R   t   t
keycode 0x1D =  backslash   y   y
keycode 0x1E =  s   s   u
keycode 0x1F =  backslash   i   i
keycode 0x20 =  s   o   o
keycode 0x21 =  e   p   p
keycode 0x22 =  i   braceleft
keycode 0x23 =  8   braceright
keycode 0x17 =  apostrophe
keycode 0x24 =  8   apostrophe
keycode 0x6B =  Delete
keycode 0x67 =  End   
keycode 0x69 =  Return
keycode 0x4F =  lesss
keycode 0x50 =  greater e
keycode 0x51 =  8   8  
keycode 0x56 =  1   apostrophe   
keycode 0x42 =  Shift_L
keycode 0x26 =  r   R   a
keycode 0x27 =  g   lesss
keycode 0x28 =  a   greater d
keycode 0x29 =  b   f   f
keycode 0x2A =  r   R   g
keycode 0x2B =  period  h   h
keycode 0x2C =  s   s   j
keycode 0x2D =  6   i   k
keycode 0x2E =  1   asteriskl
keycode 0x2F =  2   asciitilde6
keycode 0x30 =  4   asciitilde
keycode 0x33 =  apostrophe  bracketright
keycode 0x53 =  s   apostrophe
keycode 0x54 =  i   8
keycode 0x55 =  colon   colon
keycode 0x32 =  Shift_L
keycode 0x5E =  lessgreater bar brokenbar   
bar brokenbar
keycode 0x34 =  c   z   z
keycode 0x35 =  d   braceleft   x
keycode 0x36 =  e   braceright  c
keycode 0x37 =  f   v   v
keycode 0x38 =  comma   R   b
keycode 0x39 =  1   comma   n
keycode 0x3A =  apostrophe  m   m
keycode 0x3B =  comma   asciitilde
keycode 0x3C =  comma   asciitilde
keycode 0x3D =  apostrophe  exclam
keycode 0x3E =  6
keycode 0x62 =  Up
keycode 0x57 =  s   s   
keycode 0x58 =  e   i
keycode 0x59 =  comma   apostrophe
keycode 0x6C =  Return  Return
keycode 0x25 =  Control_L
keycode 0x73 =  BackSpace
keycode 0x40 =  Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift
keycode 0x41 =  space
keycode 0x71 =  period  asciitilde  
keycode 0x74 =  Super_R 
keycode 0x75 =  comma   R
keycode 0x6D =  comma
keycode 0x64 =  Left
keycode 0x68 =  Down
keycode 0x66 =  Right
keycode 0x5A =  2   colon   
keycode 0x5B =  8   greater

clear Shift
clear Lock
clear Control
clear Mod1
clear Mod2
clear Mod3
clear Mod4
clear Mod5


addShift   = Shift_L Shift_R
addLock= Caps_Lock
addControl = Control_L Control_R
addMod1= Alt_L 
addMod2= Num_Lock
addMod5= Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift


On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:42:54 +0200
Omer Katzir kome...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank keyboard concept of yours sounds really interesting, can you  
 post a 

[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread Kenneth M Berry
To be productive with tex I needed to use an editor like kile so I
   don't have to use a text console constantly.  With lilypond I found
   frescobaldi which is similar to the editors you use with tex,  It
   really just gets you out of the console.
   When using kile with tex you get a library of commands you can insert
   into your document for convenience.  Frescobaldi doesn't have that
   level of functionality yet but you get a nice gui which is better than
   using a console.

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views? (text editors)

2009-02-14 Thread Peter Nightingale
My advice is to pick xemacs as your text editor. You will never have to 
learn another in your life: either it is cut short climbing the learning 
curve, or you reach the Elysian Fields.

Peter.

  On Sat, 14 Feb 2009, Kenneth M Berry wrote:

To be productive with tex I needed to use an editor like kile so I
   don't have to use a text console constantly.  With lilypond I found
   frescobaldi which is similar to the editors you use with tex,  It
   really just gets you out of the console.
   When using kile with tex you get a library of commands you can insert
   into your document for convenience.  Frescobaldi doesn't have that
   level of functionality yet but you get a nice gui which is better than
   using a console.

   --


 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


the next auto-quote is:
Man enjoys the great advantage of having a God endorse the codes he writes;
and since man exercises a sovereign authority over woman, it is especially
fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being.
(Simone de Beauvoir)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881




[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-14 Thread Guy Smith
For ensemble playing, computer generated staff notation is a major time
saver (Finale, in my case). It's not just the time it takes to enter the
notes. I've obtained a number of pieces from Werner Icking for our loud
band, and discovered that they didn't quite fit on one or more instruments.
Transposing the piece up or down, adjusting line or page breaks, breaking
the piece out as parts, switching the tenor part from Treble to Bass clef to
accommodate the sackbuts, takes almost no time. The MIDI playback is also a
very useful feature for catching entry mistakes. I find it a lot easier to
spot a wrong note by listening (even if the sound is rather tinny) than just
peering at the text.

BTW, Finale has several SKUs, with increasing feature sets. PrintMusic,
which is around $100, works fine for me and is a good bit less expensive
than the full-blown version.


Guy

-Original Message-
From: alexander [mailto:voka...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:30 AM
To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: 'Lute Dmth'; Eugene C. Braig IV
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

If saving the time is at issue, by all means - computer way. I used pen
(actually - pencil - much faster) - paper - copier for years and years. To
produce a one average 12 stave page simple part with a fair number of 16ths
than someone else besides self will be able to read took about 30 minutes.
Then i tried a few programs, and went by reducing the time needed, with
results improved. The same part on Lilypond takes me now under 5 minutes (no
bluffing here, - i have set the keyboard with note names under left fingers
and values in the right, and have templates for every possible set-up
prepared, just enter the notes). The learning curve (though the improvement
never actually stops) to produce the very first good part, was about two -
three hours. 
The advantages are: an immediate redesign of number of pages, sizes, line
breaks, bars- no  bar lines, ad intinitum, and the whole library of music on
a flash drive. Now i just keep a printer in the rehearsal room, and no one
complains about my handwriting!
alexander


On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:43:43 + (GMT)
Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 
 
Thank you Eugene,
 
I use pen and paper copies now but, since so many collegues seem to be
producing computer set parts these days, thought that using the
appropriate software might not be as time consuming as I feared (I
can't quite believe that it takes less time to enter a note via a
keyboard than by writing it).  I might stick to photocopied MS
parts
 
Martyn
--- On Fri, 13/2/09, Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu wrote:
 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Omer Katzir
Try Lilypond. It's not like Finale or Sibelius, but it's much better,  
and free.


It's take a while to hang on in it, but it worth the time.


On Feb 13, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:




  I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
  but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
  writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
  free.  I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some  
problems but

  perhaps it's the best there is?

  MH

  --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread jan
   Martyn,
   if you are happy with a somewhat old-fashioned user interface (i.e.
   typing in text,  like to 'tab')
   have a look at abctab2ps, which can produce beautiful scores and handle
   lute tablature as well.
   [1]http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/
   Best regards
   Jan Johansson
   On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:24 , Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   sent:

 I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
 but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
 writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
 free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems
 but
 perhaps it's the best there is?
 MH
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/
   2. 
file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/modules/refer.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F%7Ewbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html



[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread denysstephens
Dear Martyn,
There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad'
which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com 

Best wishes,

Denys






Quoting Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk:

 
 
I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
free.  I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but
perhaps it's the best there is?
 
MH
 
--
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 




--
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net




[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread David van Ooijen
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:32 AM,  denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
 Dear Martyn,
 There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad'
 which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com

I'd second that: excellent program.

David


-- 
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Spring, aus dem, Rainer


-Original Message-
From: Taco Walstra [mailto:wals...@science.uva.nl]
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:51 AM
To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

On Friday 13 February 2009, Martyn Hodgson rattled on the keyboard:
I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
free.  I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems but
perhaps it's the best there is?

MH

--

For Free software you need to look into the open source world and this often 
means quit using windows and start with Linux.


I have been using freeware like MikTeX, ghostview, tab, compilers, tools, .. on 
Windows NT and XP for MANY years now.


All these programs do not run easily on windows, but it's possible to install 
even on windows or apple OS a virtual pc with linux where you can run this.
This is not true.
In the past installing Lilypond on a Windows system was a nightmare but now it 
is very easy.


Best wishes,

Rainer aus dem Spring


IT  Business Solutions Division




Tel.:   +49 211-5296-355
Fax.:   +49 211-5296-405
SMTP:   rspringaus...@tee.toshiba.de

CONFIDENTIALITY DISCLAIMER
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be 
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, 
delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately.

You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose outside of any 
NDA currently existing between Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH and yourselves.

Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH
Hansaallee 181 - 40549 Duesseldorf - Germany
Phone: +49 (211) 5296-0 - Fax: +49 (211) 5296-400

Handelsregister Duesseldorf HRB 22487
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Hitoshi Otsuka
Amtsgericht Duesseldorf



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Taco Walstra
O
 All these programs do not run easily on windows, but it's possible to
  install even on windows or apple OS a virtual pc with linux where you can
  run this.

 This is not true.
 In the past installing Lilypond on a Windows system was a nightmare but now
 it is very easy

Denemo, NoteEdit, Rosegarden are not windows applications. They are all gtk 
(gnome) or kde windowmanager based. 
taco



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread William Brohinsky
Caveats for Finale Notepad:

This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you
get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin
staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk
with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the
limitations can be stultifying.

You cannot change keysignature once it has been established.
(that alone is stuldtifying!)
Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include 5- or 6-
string bass (which may not be a problem)
Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one
score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't.
Only one verse of lyrics.
There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them:
the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are
included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need
and don't get.

Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you
need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without,
or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly.

If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth
taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get
them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises
to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has always
been too expensive.

Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a
way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music
into notation.

This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the
WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and WYSIAYG=What you see is
all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and
the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and
WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're stuck
with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can
pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend
your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter:
you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get
to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate
money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with
Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation
WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program
like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going
to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with
doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.)

I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard school, so
I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond,
but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a
minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free.
Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which
you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by
simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't
leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and
displaying often.

For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript
separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece.

lilypond.org is a good place to visit.

Ray

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM,  denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
 Dear Martyn,
 There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad'
 which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com

 Best wishes,

 Denys




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Eugene C. Braig IV
Finale Notepad does have some pretty severe limitations (or at least did)
compared to the full version, like the inability to notate modulation or
time signature changes.  However, its greatest current limitation may be
that the new version of Notepad is no longer free.  You can download it for
US$9.95 or order it on CD for US$19.95.

Eugene


 -Original Message-
 From: denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk [mailto:denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk]
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 AM
 To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 Cc: Lute Dmth
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
 
 Dear Martyn,
 There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad'
 which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Denys
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Quoting Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk:
 
 
 
 I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
 but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
 writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
 free.  I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems
 but
 perhaps it's the best there is?
 
 MH
 
 --
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net





[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Eugene C. Braig IV
Another nice facility of the full version of Finale over the very severely
limited Finale Notepad is that the full version of Finale does have a
fully-functional Rapid Entry tool based entirely upon keystrokes.  With a
little practice, the basics of notation move very quickly with it.

..And did I mention that the pared down Notepad is no longer free!?  As a
free download, Finale Notepad served purpose as an introduction to notation
software.  Personally, I don't think paying anything at all for Notepad is
warranted.  I'd favor darkly penciled staff paper and a decent scanner over
actually paying for Notepad.

Best,
Eugene


 -Original Message-
 From: William Brohinsky [mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM
 To: Lute Dmth
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?
 
 Caveats for Finale Notepad:
 
 This is a very very pared-down version of finale. That means that you
 get all the problems without the facilities to fix them (spider-thin
 staff lines and barlines, which are more than an annoyance to folk
 with less-than-perfect vision, including us older folk) and the
 limitations can be stultifying.
 
 You cannot change keysignature once it has been established.
 (that alone is stuldtifying!)
 Tablature is 'standard guitar and bass', and doesn't include 5- or 6-
 string bass (which may not be a problem)
 Time signatures are limited, and may or not be changeable within one
 score now. When I last tried it, you couldn't.
 Only one verse of lyrics.
 There are other limitations which are not obvious until you need them:
 the FinaleMusic folk are good at telling you what features are
 included, and very good at avoiding mentioning what you probably need
 and don't get.
 
 Free is an odd term: you invariably pay, either by giving up what you
 need, spending time finding workarounds for what you can't do without,
 or taking 11 times longer to do what you need to do quickly.
 
 If you have access to a student version of Finale or Sibelius (worth
 taking a course or two at a local community college, even) you can get
 them for about a quarter of what you'd pay, and the feature set rises
 to the 'usable' level. For free, Notepad (at least for me) has always
 been too expensive.
 
 Notepad is good for just what is stated: an introduction to Finale, a
 way to 'jot' musical ideas, and a way to set the simplest of music
 into notation.
 
 This is a philosophy of dichotomy, by the way, between the
 WYSIWYG=What you see is what you get and WYSIAYG=What you see is
 all you get, the binary attitude towards visual music editors, and
 the WYLTDIWYG=What you learn to do is what you get and
 WYGOOTBISWYSW = what you get out-of-the-box is what you're stuck
 with. Finale and Sibelius straddle WYSIWYG and WYGOOTBISWYSW: you can
 pay an expert to provide you with what you actually want, or spend
 your life becoming that expert. Lilypond and abc straddle the latter:
 you don't get the immediate visual feedback of a GUI, but you can get
 to the guts (at least of Lilypond) more easily, and you can donate
 money to fund the establishment of features which aren't provided with
 Lilypond, if you are so inclined. (I don't know of a big-corporation
 WYSIWYG notation editor where you can directly influence the program
 like you can with Lily: the corporations do what they think is going
 to sell the most copies. The Lilypond guys are more concerned with
 doing what is wanted, as long as they get to eat as well.)
 
 I will disclaim: I am in the everything from the keyboard school, so
 I find Lilypond delightful. There are things you can't do in Lilypond,
 but if you want Broude-Brothers quality scores and parts with a
 minimum of learning curve, it's a best-buy, being really free.
 Learning to input doesn't take that long, and a proper setup (which
 you get in the standard install) gives you quick-enough feedback, by
 simply learning to enter music in manageable pieces (so you aren't
 leaving something open that will choke the compiler) and compiling and
 displaying often.
 
 For lilypond on windows, you used to have to install Ghostscript
 separately, and it seems to now all come as one piece.
 
 lilypond.org is a good place to visit.
 
 Ray
 
 On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM,  denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
  Dear Martyn,
  There is a simplified free version of Finale called 'Notepad'
  which is worth trying - see www.finalemusic.com
 
  Best wishes,
 
  Denys
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread demery
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk said:

Several have mentioned lilypond.
It is a work in progress and has demonstrated to me a lot of growing pains
and inconsistancies.  It can do nice work, but at some cost; rather like
the initial versions of Quark Express.  You will need lots of room on disk
for the help files.
-- 
Dana Emery




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Staff notation software - views?

2009-02-13 Thread Leonard Williams
Martyn--
I'll second the recommendation for abctab2ps.  It does a variety of
tab styles as well as staff notation (multiple staves, an assortment of
clefs, lyrics), and tab with staff.  And it's free.  Christoph Dalitz keeps
the program well-maintained, and the manual for it is very clear.  Runs on
Mac or PC.  Christoph is very helpful with set up and questions.  Certainly
worth a try.  I can send you some ps or pdf samples if you'd like.

Regards,
Leonard Williams
  
   /[ ]
   /   \
  |  *  |
  \_=_/



On 2/13/09 4:16 AM, j...@horseforce.se j...@horseforce.se wrote:

  Martyn,
  if you are happy with a somewhat old-fashioned user interface (i.e.
  typing in text,  like to 'tab')
  have a look at abctab2ps, which can produce beautiful scores and handle
  lute tablature as well.
  [1]http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/
  Best regards
  Jan Johansson
  On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:24 , Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
  sent:
 
I'm sorry for introducing a non-lute note into these communications,
but I'd be grateful for views on the best FREE computer software for
writing staff notation; ie something like Sibelius or Finale, but
free. I've tried Muscore which, seems to me, to have some problems
but
perhaps it's the best there is?
MH
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 References
 
  1. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/
  2. 
 file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/modules/refer.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fww
 w.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F%7Ewbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html