[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Herbert, You could try thicker fret gut. With very thin frets it is harder to get a buzz free sound. There has to be an angle of the string over the fret. The fret has to act as a stop (or nut). Also it is good to try to place your fingers next to the fret (to increase the angle of the string as far as possible). To get the best out of your applied finger pressure put your fingers down at as right an angle as possible. You will find that on a well set up lute, applying an efficient r.h. technique, buzz free playing is very well possible with a minimum of effort. Happy luting, Lex Op 10 sep 2012, om 17:25 heeft Herbert Ward het volgende geschreven: > > Some of the pressure from the LH fingers is > to prevent buzz. For example, if the string laid against > the fret with zero distance, you'd still have to apply > a considerable amount of pressure to prevent buzz. > > Factors are: > (a) the distance from string to fret, > (b) the string tension, > (c) the pressure needed to prevent buzz (as above). > > Factors (a) and (b) are involved in getting the string > to the fret, and (c) comes into play after the string > is against the fret. > > This has frustrated me in the past. I would lower the > acticn radically, only to find that > the reduction in pressure was not as great as > I'd hoped, because of (c). > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Some of the pressure from the LH fingers is to prevent buzz. For example, if the string laid against the fret with zero distance, you'd still have to apply a considerable amount of pressure to prevent buzz. Factors are: (a) the distance from string to fret, (b) the string tension, (c) the pressure needed to prevent buzz (as above). Factors (a) and (b) are involved in getting the string to the fret, and (c) comes into play after the string is against the fret. This has frustrated me in the past. I would lower the acticn radically, only to find that the reduction in pressure was not as great as I'd hoped, because of (c). To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
I emailed Baldwin's (the numismatic company) earlier today and will
wait what they say. But if your source is right, since Mace says the
height can be even a bit more than halfcrown, it implies strings 2.5mm
above the fingerboard at nut which in turn I guess implies a first fret
at around 2mm Mace does say that the halfcrown height allows
the string to 'whirl around' without any interference so perhaps he was
happier with a bigger difference/clearance between string height at the
nut than at the first fret.
The thickest first fret I ever use is 1.3mm on my 93cm string
length theorbo and my 96cm continuo gallichon.
rgds
M
--- On Wed, 15/8/12, William Samson wrote:
From: William Samson
Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut
To: "Lute List"
Date: Wednesday, 15 August, 2012, 12:14
Yikes! I've just googled the thickness of a 1676 half crown and it
is
2.23mm. That seems an awful lot.
Bill
From: Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Lute List <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Stuart Walsh
<[3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2012, 10:46
Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut
Dear Stuart,
Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret
(around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute)
but,
as
Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes
is
John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner
frets
-
these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between
string
and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret
fingering.
I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument
but,
again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your
particular
instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even
incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter
frets
right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern
'classical'
guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at
the
bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a
setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to
around
0.50mm (8th fret).
Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a
fine
smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all
your
Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the
Finger-Board,
which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little
more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you
know
the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard
at
the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of
his
ideal first fret.
Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets:
in
fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets
with
the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace
who,
it
should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a
fret
desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on
this
very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly.
regards
Martyn
From: Martin Shepherd <[1][4]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut
To: "Lute List" <[2][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14
Hi Stuart,
It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as
high
as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is
surprisingly
high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret
sizes
as
one goes "up" the neck, it may not.
Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about
.75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets.
Best wishes,
Martin
14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote:
>Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G
lute,
>60cms string length?
>And, if so, what are they?
>Stuart
>--
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1][3][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[8]mar...@luteshop.co.uk
2. mailto:[9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-ad
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Please can you give the page reference? Best Monica - Original Message - From: "Ariel Abramovich" To: "Sam Chapman" Cc: "Martyn Hodgson" ; "Lute List" ; "Stuart Walsh" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:42 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut Hi Sam, That's pretty much it. That's what Bermudo says. I can transcribe the full quote, but you've got it right anyway! Best, Ariel Dear all, Some time ago I read something about fretting vihuelas, probably Bermudo: as I remember, the "best" vihuelas can be fretted with the same thickness of gut all the way up the neck. Can somebody quote this source more accurately? Best, Sam On 15 August 2012 11:46, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Dear Stuart, Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret (around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) but, as Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes is John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner frets - these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between string and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret fingering. I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument but, again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your particular instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter frets right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern 'classical' guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at the bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to around 0.50mm (8th fret). Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a fine smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all your Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the Finger-Board, which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you know the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of his ideal first fret. Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: in fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets with the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace who, it should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a fret desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on this very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. regards Martyn From: Martin Shepherd <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut To: "Lute List" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes "up" the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, 60cms string length? And, if so, what are they? Stuart -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Yikes! I've just googled the thickness of a 1676 half crown and it is 2.23mm. That seems an awful lot. Bill From: Martyn Hodgson To: Lute List ; Stuart Walsh Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2012, 10:46 Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut Dear Stuart, Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret (around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) but, as Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes is John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner frets - these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between string and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret fingering. I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument but, again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your particular instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter frets right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern 'classical' guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at the bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to around 0.50mm (8th fret). Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a fine smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all your Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the Finger-Board, which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you know the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of his ideal first fret. Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: in fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets with the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace who, it should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a fret desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on this very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. regards Martyn From: Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut To: "Lute List" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes "up" the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: >Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, >60cms string length? >And, if so, what are they? >Stuart >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
My new vihuela (by Didier Jarny) have same diameter frets on all neck (0.7) V. -Message d'origine- De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part de Ariel Abramovich Envoyé : mercredi 15 août 2012 12:43 À : Sam Chapman Cc : Martyn Hodgson; Lute List; Stuart Walsh Objet : [LUTE] Re: fret gut Hi Sam, That's pretty much it. That's what Bermudo says. I can transcribe the full quote, but you've got it right anyway! Best, Ariel > Dear all, > > Some time ago I read something about fretting vihuelas, probably > Bermudo: as I remember, the "best" vihuelas can be fretted with the > same thickness of gut all the way up the neck. Can somebody quote this > source more accurately? > > Best, > > Sam > On 15 August 2012 11:46, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > >Dear Stuart, >Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret >(around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) > but, as >Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes > is >John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner > frets - >these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between > string >and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret > fingering. >I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument > but, >again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your > particular >instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even >incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter > frets >right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern > 'classical' >guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at > the >bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a >setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to > around >0.50mm (8th fret). >Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a > fine >smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all > your >Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the > Finger-Board, >which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little >more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you > know >the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard > at >the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of > his >ideal first fret. >Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: > in >fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets > with >the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace > who, it >should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a > fret > desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on > this >very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. >regards >Martyn > From: Martin Shepherd <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut > To: "Lute List" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 > > Hi Stuart, > It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as > high > as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is > surprisingly > high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes > as > one goes "up" the neck, it may not. > Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about > .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. > Best wishes, > Martin > 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: >>Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G > lute, >>60cms string length? >>And, if so, what are they? >>Stuart >>-- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >-- > References >1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > Sam Chapman > Oetlingerstrasse 65 > 4057 Basel > (0041) 79 530 39 91 > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk > 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Hi Sam, That's pretty much it. That's what Bermudo says. I can transcribe the full quote, but you've got it right anyway! Best, Ariel > Dear all, > > Some time ago I read something about fretting vihuelas, probably > Bermudo: as I remember, the "best" vihuelas can be fretted with the > same thickness of gut all the way up the neck. Can somebody quote this > source more accurately? > > Best, > > Sam > On 15 August 2012 11:46, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > >Dear Stuart, >Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret >(around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) > but, as >Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes > is >John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner > frets - >these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between > string >and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret > fingering. >I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument > but, >again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your > particular >instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even >incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter > frets >right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern > 'classical' >guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at > the >bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a >setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to > around >0.50mm (8th fret). >Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a > fine >smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all > your >Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the > Finger-Board, >which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little >more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you > know >the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard > at >the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of > his >ideal first fret. >Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: > in >fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets > with >the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace > who, it >should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a > fret >desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on > this >very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. >regards >Martyn > From: Martin Shepherd <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut > To: "Lute List" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 > > Hi Stuart, > It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as > high > as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is > surprisingly > high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes > as > one goes "up" the neck, it may not. > Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about > .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. > Best wishes, > Martin > 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: >>Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G > lute, >>60cms string length? >>And, if so, what are they? >>Stuart >>-- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >-- > References >1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > Sam Chapman > Oetlingerstrasse 65 > 4057 Basel > (0041) 79 530 39 91 > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk > 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Dear all, Some time ago I read something about fretting vihuelas, probably Bermudo: as I remember, the "best" vihuelas can be fretted with the same thickness of gut all the way up the neck. Can somebody quote this source more accurately? Best, Sam On 15 August 2012 11:46, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Dear Stuart, Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret (around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) but, as Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes is John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner frets - these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between string and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret fingering. I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument but, again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your particular instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter frets right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern 'classical' guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at the bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to around 0.50mm (8th fret). Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a fine smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all your Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the Finger-Board, which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you know the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of his ideal first fret. Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: in fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets with the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace who, it should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a fret desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on this very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. regards Martyn From: Martin Shepherd <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut To: "Lute List" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes "up" the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: > Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, > 60cms string length? > And, if so, what are they? > Stuart > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Dear Stuart, Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret (around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) but, as Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes is John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner frets - these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between string and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret fingering. I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument but, again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your particular instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter frets right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern 'classical' guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at the bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to around 0.50mm (8th fret). Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a fine smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all your Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the Finger-Board, which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you know the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of his ideal first fret. Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: in fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets with the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace who, it should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a fret desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on this very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. regards Martyn From: Martin Shepherd Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut To: "Lute List" Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes "up" the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: > Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, > 60cms string length? > And, if so, what are they? > Stuart > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes "up" the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, 60cms string length? And, if so, what are they? Stuart -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
Dear Dr. Freeman, Partly out of curiosity, or as an idiotic experiment, I once last year attempted to prepare a fret using a thick strand of nylgut. When your match flame hits the end of the nylgut, it turns into a gooey black mess which drips and soils whatever might be around, so I do not recommend nylgut frets to anyone who doesn't have a strong general affection for black carbonaceous goo. Mark Seifert Graham Freeman wrote: >All, >Has anyone ever used anything other than fret gut to replace a fret? >Perhaps in a pinch? I've broken two frets and would really like to get >the instrument back up and running before the replacement gut I ordered >arrives. Perhaps someone has experimented with other materials that >might suffice until my gut arrives? I really only need it to work for >a little while, sort of like the spare tire that just needs to get me >to the service station. >Appreciative as always, >Graham Freeman >-- >Dr. Graham Freeman >Ph. D Musicology >University of Toronto >[1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com >-- > > References > >1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
I have a friend who uses nylgut strings. I've never tried it myself, but it seems like it would be hard to get the knot tight enough. It would also be expensive unless you used old ones. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
I once bought a used instrument that came to me fretted in nylon. Personally, I do not recommend nylon as fret material. Nylon is quite hard and the surface very slick. It will eventually slip too easily. If tied tightly enough to not slip initially, it may bite into the timber of the fingerboard and the knot is likely to bite into the timber of the neck. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Edward Mast > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:20 AM > To: Graham Freeman > Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fret Gut > > Some players use nylon as fret material (I haven't myself), Graham. If > you have any old nylon strings the right size it might be worth a try. If > you end up liking it, it would be cheaper and longer lasting (I would > assume) than gut. I do suspect that tying the knot might be trickier, > however. > Ned > On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Graham Freeman wrote: > > > All, > > Has anyone ever used anything other than fret gut to replace a fret? > > Perhaps in a pinch? I've broken two frets and would really like to get > > the instrument back up and running before the replacement gut I > ordered > > arrives. Perhaps someone has experimented with other materials that > > might suffice until my gut arrives? I really only need it to work for > > a little while, sort of like the spare tire that just needs to get me > > to the service station. > > Appreciative as always, > > Graham Freeman > > -- > > Dr. Graham Freeman > > Ph. D Musicology > > University of Toronto > > [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
I usually use my old broken gut strings A you can use a nylon fret in the meantime. A Bruno On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Graham Freeman <[1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com> wrote: A All, A Has anyone ever used anything other than fret gut to replace a fret? A Perhaps in a pinch? I've broken two frets and would really like to get A the instrument back up and running before the replacement gut I ordered A arrives. Perhaps someone has experimented with other materials that A might suffice until my gut arrives? A I really only need it to work for A a little while, sort of like the spare tire that just needs to get me A to the service station. A Appreciative as always, A Graham Freeman A -- A Dr. Graham Freeman A Ph. D Musicology A University of Toronto A [1][2]freeman.gra...@gmail.com A -- References A 1. mailto:[3]freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 2. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 3. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
Dear Graham, I second Ned, although I should add that nylon frets don't hold to the fingerboard as well as gut does, so they move very easily when playing. However they're a good work-around in case of emergency. Best, Nicolás > -Mensaje original- > De: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] En > nombre de Edward Mast > Enviado el: martes, 06 de julio de 2010 09:20 > Para: Graham Freeman > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Asunto: [LUTE] Re: Fret Gut > > Some players use nylon as fret material (I haven't myself), Graham. If > you have any old nylon strings the right size it might be worth a try. > If you end up liking it, it would be cheaper and longer lasting (I > would assume) than gut. I do suspect that tying the knot might be > trickier, however. > Ned > On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Graham Freeman wrote: > > > All, > > Has anyone ever used anything other than fret gut to replace a > fret? > > Perhaps in a pinch? I've broken two frets and would really like to > get > > the instrument back up and running before the replacement gut I > ordered > > arrives. Perhaps someone has experimented with other materials that > > might suffice until my gut arrives? I really only need it to work > for > > a little while, sort of like the spare tire that just needs to get > me > > to the service station. > > Appreciative as always, > > Graham Freeman > > -- > > Dr. Graham Freeman > > Ph. D Musicology > > University of Toronto > > [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Fret Gut
Some players use nylon as fret material (I haven't myself), Graham. If you have any old nylon strings the right size it might be worth a try. If you end up liking it, it would be cheaper and longer lasting (I would assume) than gut. I do suspect that tying the knot might be trickier, however. Ned On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Graham Freeman wrote: > All, > Has anyone ever used anything other than fret gut to replace a fret? > Perhaps in a pinch? I've broken two frets and would really like to get > the instrument back up and running before the replacement gut I ordered > arrives. Perhaps someone has experimented with other materials that > might suffice until my gut arrives? I really only need it to work for > a little while, sort of like the spare tire that just needs to get me > to the service station. > Appreciative as always, > Graham Freeman > -- > Dr. Graham Freeman > Ph. D Musicology > University of Toronto > [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
