Re: Background color

[Steve Litt]

A-Imam Al-Sammak said on Tue, 17 Sep 2024 07:48:30 +0300

>Hi
>Hope this answers your question
>
>Lyx 2.4 comes with "dark theme" as default, which I did not like as it
>is not nice as it does not display graphs clearly. I like the LyX 2.3
>theme, so to change it, in the preferences > Look and feel > user
>interface > user interface style > "windowsvista".

This is good information. I've enjoyed the black on beige yellow since
the 1990's, back in the days when LyX used xforms. So when I get LyX
2.4 from my Void Linux distro, I'll change the user interface style to
"windowsvista".

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: tectonic, anyone?

[Steve Litt]

Neal Becker said on Sun, 21 Jul 2024 16:12:19 -0400

>Anyone played with tectonic?  Think this might be helpful to use with
>LyX?
>
>https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/en-US/index.html
>
>-- 
>*Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*

Until hell freezes over :-)

OK, back on topic, I know nothing about tectonic except what your URL
told me. Normally, I'm a LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX type guy, and the only
disadvantage is a longer document compile time. Looking at the
advantages the URL discusses:

* automatically downloads support files so you don't need a full LaTeX
  installation.
- I already have a full LaTeX installation. Today's hard disks
  are big enough that you can just tell CTAN to give you
  everything. I'm a huge fan of using CTAN rather than your
  distribution's LaTeX package.

* Automatically loops TeX and BibTeX
- Nothing I can't do with shellscripts. I do this with
  shellscripts every day.

* Tectonic command-line program is quiet and never stops to ask for
  input. 
- I'd rather get all output and have it ask. Easier for
  troubleshooting.

* Tectonic can use modern OpenType fonts and is fully Unicode-enabled.
- I already have these benefits with LuaTeX.

* Tectonic engine has been extracted into a completely self-contained
  library so that it can be embedded in other applications.
- This is pretty cool, and if I ever need it, I'll grab
  Tectonic.

* Developed in the open on GitHub using modern tools like the Rust
  language.
- Yawn.

* Tectonic can be used from Github Actions to typeset your documents
  whenever a change to them is made.
- Oh Hell No! I don't want my document production work flow
  depending on something on somebody else's server, especially
  the less-than-free Github. I have a 14TB hard disk and am not
  a Cloud/Software As a Service type guy. Luckily, it appears I
  don't have to use this feature.

In summary, I won't take the time to check this out until other people
have reported very positive experiences with it.

SteveT

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Re: Scrolling unresponsive in LyX 2.4.0

[Steve Litt]

Jean-Marc Lasgouttes said on Sun, 21 Jul 2024 01:08:23 +0200

>Le 16/07/2024 à 00:13, Hung-Tzu Chang a écrit :
>> Here are the files. The file named "scroll-problem" means problem
>> with scrolling/frozen citation window/frozen menu bar, etc.
>> 
>> Thanks!  
>
>Dear Hung-Tzu,
>
>Thanks for the files. I can confirm that I observe hangs when
>scrolling with LyX 2.4.1 and that the performance is much much better
>with current 2.4.2~devel.

What's the latest "stable" version of LyX? I just discovered my LyX is
2.3.6.1 from 12/29/2020. What am I missing with my version? It seems OK
to me, and it's what my distro gives me.


SteveT

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Re: Kudos to lyx creators!

[Steve Litt]

Richard Kimberly Heck said on Mon, 15 Jul 2024 12:04:12 -0400

>On 7/15/24 11:35 AM, Neal Becker wrote:
>> I just had the misfortune to need to convert from a docx file, which 
>> included math, to lyx.  I tried the builtin import and was
>> pleasantly surprised!  It worked great, converting math and all
>> sorts of formatting correctly. Considering MS can't even seem to
>> read and render it's own math, that's impressive!  
>
>We appreciate the sentiment, but the conversion is actually being done 
>by some other program for which we are not responsible. You can find
>out which program by looking at Tools> Preferences> File Handling> 
>Converters. Here, it is wvCleanLatex, which is part of wvWare.
>
>Riki

Is there a converter to bring a book written in WordPerfect 5.1 (DOS,
CLI) into LyX? I have such a book.

SteveT

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Re: 2.4.0 for Debian stable

[Steve Litt]

Pavel Sanda said on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:53:40 +0200

>On Sat, Jun 08, 2024 at 08:23:49PM +0200, Saša Janiška wrote:
>> However, Lyx's 2.4.0 release is exceptional and I wonder if there is
>> some repository with 2.4.0 backported to Bookworm?  
>
>I have provisional agreement with debian maintainer that 2.4 will be
>sooner or later backported to bookworm. But we were not aggresive
>about timing so if you are no in hurry it will land, but probably
>after 2.4.1. But maybe I can push a little.

Please use your influence to make sure Debian's LyX package is also
byte-for-byte suitable for Devuan and has no systemd dependencies.
Nothing in LyX is specific to an init system, but Debian has a habit of
needlessly encumbering some of their packages with systemd dependencies.

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: Subpixel antialiasing?

[Steve Litt]

Lorenzo Bertini said on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 20:07:24 +0200

>Dear LyX users,
>does anyone know if subpixel antialiasing can be enabled for LyX's
>workarea? Is yes, how?

And why? LyX isn't WYSIWYG, so as long as the work area is readable,
why worry about its typography?

SteveT

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Re: grammar check

[Steve Litt]

Saša Janiška said on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 11:24:03 +0200

>Hello,
>
>I've decided to do my note-taking (Zettelkasten) by just using pen &
>paper and when I want to produce some context I'll just use LyX -
>exporting to markdown when I want something for the web 

Does LyX have a Markdown export? Is it any better than LyX' HTML export?

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: Lyx error

[Steve Litt]

Paolo M said on Thu, 11 Apr 2024 09:21:34 +0200

>Your lyx file raises the same error.
>The option 'Use non-TeX fonts' cannot be selected, although the
>required fontspec package is installed.
>As i try to view the pdf rendering i get:
>
>"The external program
>
>xelatex
 ^^^

If you use non-TeX fonts, you must compile with luatex and lualatex
instead of xelatex. Check your LyX preferences for compiling.


SteveT

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Re: Lyx error

[Steve Litt]

Paolo M said on Wed, 10 Apr 2024 22:22:31 +0200

>On opensuse 15, i have just installed the noto font, but probably lyx
>has also been upgrated to 2.4.0-RC4.  Now lyx doe not work eny more.
>Opening a file, see the enclosed one as an example, i get the error
>below p.

Just so we're all on the same page, you know your attachment contains
no string "noto", right?

Not only that, but on my computer using LyX 2.3.6.1 on an up-to-date
Void Linux, your document works perfectly. But you knew that already.

In order to use Noto fonts, I took your document in LyX and did the
following:

1) On Document>Settings>Fonts I checked "Use non-TeX fonts.

2) Document>Settings>Fonts>Roman I chose Noto Serif [GOOG]

3) Document>Settings>Fonts>Sans Serif I chose Noto Sans [GOOG]

4) Document>Settings>Fonts>Typewriter I chose Noto Sans Mono [GOOG]

5) Document>View [PDF (LuaTeX)] to compile and view the result.

I've attached my doc with Noto fonts.

Maybe you'll get lucky and my file will compile. Try it.

HTH,

SteveT

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Re: Unable to use Trac + bug report

[Steve Litt]

Carlos Pita said on Tue, 12 Mar 2024 19:27:40 -0300

>Hi,
>
>I tried to report a bug after 5 years of having used your bug tracker
>for the last time and I found that:

Bug trackers are where bug reports go to die. On a lot of projects I
tried using their bug tracker, and the bug never got addressed because
putting in the bug tracker is like sweeping it under the table.

Half of the 50 free softwares I use have bug trackers, and they're all
different. I'm expected to learn and remember 25 different bug tracker
interfaces. I can't accuse LyX of this because I never submitted a LyX
problem to a bug tracker.

Bug trackers ALWAYS ask questions that are n/a for the problem being
reported, and occasionally you find one that *demands* an answer before
letting you go on.

When I was the Vimoutliner maintainer, we fixed problems that came in
on the mailing list, right away. Either we helped the user get it right,
or if it was a bug we fixed it and released. Everyone was happy. The
point could be made that our application was rather simple, but a) We
had only two developers, both very part time, and b) Maybe that's the
point: If the software's too complicated to handle on the mailing list,
maybe it's just too complicated.

One time I put on the mailing list a way to make the first new
paragraph non-indented, the rest indented, in HTML, so in the HTML
export they didn't need to do that mickey-mouse technique of two
different paragraph styles, one for the first paragraph and the other
for the rest. By the way, my solution was about 5 lines of CSS. Did
anyone thank me? No. They said "put it on the bug tracker." I said "I'm
not familiar with the bug tracker, can one of you do it?" The response
I got was that I was a lazy free-rider.

Bug trackers really do suck.

SteveT

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Re: Compiling causes LyX to crash [UPDATE]

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11:32:48 -0800 (PST)

>On Wed, 17 Jan 2024, Rich Shepard wrote:
>
>> Modifying a fifth document I notice that a sub-section is not
>> numbered and while I can save it pressing ctrl-h to build it with
>> pdflatex causes a message box to appear saying I've hit a bug.  
>
>I corrected a couple of spelling errors in one of the other files,
>saved, and compiled it without error. This is a client document so I
>cannot make a MWE from it or share it with the world.

Sure you can. Reduce it down to your own MWE, and then replace the
English with nonsense Latin. The only thing remaining that's
proprietary to the client is any commands or environments specific to
the client.

SteveT

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Re: Latex vs. non-latex fonts

[Steve Litt]

Neal Becker said on Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:09:51 -0500

>I'm writing another paper for IEEE conference.  I'm using lualatex to
>produce pdf.
>
>In documen/settings/fonts, I'm set to using all defaults.  If I don't
>check 'use non-TeX fonts', the output looks good.  If I do check 'use
>non-TeX fonts', the fonts look much thinner and to my eye not very
>pleasing.  Again I have not changed any font settings from defaults.
>
>Any thoughts or suggestions?  Oh, this is lyx-2.4.0beta5.
>
>Thanks,
>Neal

Hi Neal,

I gave up on Computer Modern fonts years ago, because they're so thin
as to be difficult for a poorly sighted person to read quickly. Whether
"use non-tex fonts" is checked or not (it might be worse one way or
another, but it's not good either way). I now use exclusively (for
normal purposes):

* TeX Gyre Schola for normal serif fonts.

* TeX Gyre Heros for normal sans-serif fonts.

* TeX Gyre Cursor for monospaced fonts.

These fonts are readable, at a glance, on paper or on screen. They look
good, at least to me. All you do is install them from CTAN, check "use
non-tex fonts", and compile with LuaTeX and LuaLaTeX.

Once in a while I use Ubuntu Condensed when needing condensed fonts.

Note that if it's to be read exclusively on a screen (HTML or ePub), I
don't specify fonts, so that the user's preferences rule.

HTH,

SteveT

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Re: Error while exporting format: \converter

[Steve Litt]

Hal Kierstead via lyx-users said on Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:14:34 -0700

>All -
>
>I got this message,  "Error while exporting format: \converter”, when
>trying to view a master document. It has happened in the past, but I
>forget how to correct it. Can someone help?

Your first step is to copy the document and reduce it to an MWE. An MWE
is the tiniest possible document that still reproduces the symptom.
Armed with the MWE, you can either troubleshoot it yourself or actually
get help.

HTH,

SteveT

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Re: Compiling error in updated document

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:08:13 -0800 (PST)

>I've updated a document written originally in 2010. When I try to
>compile it using pdflatex an error that \chead has already been
>defined (and there's no \chead in the new document.)
>
>Looking at the error log (attached) I see that the 13 years between
>versions has seen many changes in KOMA-Script that are beyond my
>knowledge to resolve.

I'd suggest an MWE.

SteveT

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How to reduce code lineheight in LaTeX Beamer

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

I'm using Beamer straight with LaTeX (no LyX). There's too much space
between lines of code, so it makes the code hard to read and also
pushes other content down too far. The following is a frame from my
presentation:

\begin{frame} [fragile]
\frametitle{How to Design BNF}
\begin{semiverbatim}
wholefile ::= chunk | wholefile chunk
chunk ::= paratext multinewline
multinewline ::= NL NL | multinewline NL
\end{semiverbatim}
\end{frame}

How can I reduce the space between lines of this code?

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: Bibliography not shown in compiled PDF

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Tue, 5 Dec 2023 11:08:54 -0800 (PST)

>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023, Herbert Voss wrote:
>
>> that should be ok, but LyX used
>> \usepackage[latin9]{luainputenc}
>> which is for years deprecated. You can still use palatino with
>> \usepackage{mathpazo}
>> in the documents preamble and leave all entries in the fonts
>> settings for standard with enabled "no TeX fonts"  
>
>Herbert,
>
>I've no idea where that package was specified, not in the preamble
>that I can edit (attached) and not in any previous doc.
>
>How can I remove it from all documents?

Start by using grep on your LyX file. This might give you some ideas
about where it was specified.


SteveT

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Re: Placing a citation in an endnote.

[Steve Litt]

John Kane said on Fri, 1 Dec 2023 11:15:33 -0500


>Rmardown uses pandoc to convert from Rmarkdown to pdf.  I thought that
>this should fairly easy to do in LyX or LaTeX but it does not seem so.

Eeeew, Pandoc. I'm still trying to develop the Stylz write once,
deploy everywhere, fast and easy authoring markup language. This time
I'm looking into Flex and Bison for a solution.

SteveT

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Re: Color scheme for dark themes.

[Steve Litt]

Folsk Pratima said on Wed, 8 Nov 2023 13:18:26 +0200

>Whoever thinks it's a good idea to print black letters on dark grey
>background is dead wrong.

Folsk, the preceding sentence is so much like what I would say that at
first I thought this was sent by me. :-)

SteveT

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Re: Debian 12 and Lyx 2.3.7-1

[Steve Litt]

Peter said on Thu, 2 Nov 2023 08:27:44 +

>OK, tried installing LXQT, and Lyx still has problems.  As it does on
>Fluxbox even after LXQT is installed.  I also tried FVWM and that
>doesn't work properly either.  But ICEWM and MATE both are fine.  So
>it seems to be something in Lyx and its definitely not just Fluxbox.

Does your symptom tend to appear more often with some LyX files than
others?


SteveT

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Re: Debian 12 and Lyx 2.3.7-1

[Steve Litt]

Eckhard Höffner said on Wed, 1 Nov 2023 17:00:28 +0100

>You can install several window manager and choose which one you want to
>use. So you may add LXQT minimal and then try it again with fluxbox.
>If it does not work, you can use LXQT, which should run without any
>problems.

LXQT is wonderful! I suggest that even though LXQT has a nice menu
system, you use dmenu as your primary program launcher. By the way, in
my opinion LXDE is even more wonderful than LXQT, but you can't go
wrong with either.

SteveT

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Re: Debian 12 and Lyx 2.3.7-1

[Steve Litt]

Peter said on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:31:13 +

>Hi, I have just upgraded to Debian 12 and find Lyx will not load.  In
>addition, trying to load it seems to crash xorg, so the only way out
>is to reboot. 

Is your video card an nVidea? In the Linux world, friends don't let
friends use nVidea. Because of their ultra-paranoid secrecy on their
interfaces, the Free Software world has a very hard time making drivers
for their cards, and my experience is that their proprietary drivers are
intermittent and defective also. If you don't believe me, search the
web. If you have an nVidea graphics card, a simple change to Debian's
nVidea graphics drivers could be causing this, and good luck finding
the magic sauce to fix this intermittent.

If this is a laptop, you can't replace the video card, so your best bet
is to join MANY Linux User Group (LUG) mailing lists, and see if people
can help you find this year's secret sauce configuration for your
particular nVidea video interface.

If it's a desktop, I recommend buying yourself a nice Radeon or Intel
video card to replace your nVidea card or supplant your Mobo hosted
nVidea graphic interface, and then use the bios to turn off the
built-in. Either way, once you've gotten rid of your nVidea graphic
hardware, uninstall all the nVidea graphic software and drivers.

If switching out of nVidea doesn't fix the problem, that's fine, you've
improved your computer anyway, and you'll have ruled out a huge chunk
or X crash causes. I know this will be responded to by tens of people
saying their nVidea video interfaces work just fine. This is true, but
when nVidea graphic interfaces cause problems, they take days to
troubleshoot.

If you don't currently have an nVidea graphic interface, please
disregard this post.

SteveT

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Re: Debian 12 and Lyx 2.3.7-1

[Steve Litt]

Peter said on Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:08:10 +

>The next step will be to try and
>find a Fluxbox alternative, maybe a tiling WM, and see if that works.
>Also it gives something definite to go on, and I can take it to the
>Fluxbox list.  A pity because I've found Fluxbox just about perfect.
>Obviously its not for everyone.

I HIGHLY recommend Openbox. I've been using it for almost a decade and
it's perfect. A very similar window manager is ctwm, which I also
recommend. With either, I recommend using dmenu as your main program
launcher.

SteveT

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Re: Debian 12 and Lyx 2.3.7-1

[Steve Litt]

Peter said on Wed, 1 Nov 2023 08:47:18 +

>I'll have a go with some of the other suggestions next.  I guess one
>obvious one is to install KDE andtry it with that, since someone
>reports having no problems with that on Debian 12.  Can always take it
>out afterwards.  Or maybe beta 2.4.

Also, you can try starting up your GUI with xinit so you have no
window manager at all, run LyX from an xterm, and see if funky things
still happen.

SteveT

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Re: Debian 12

[Steve Litt]

John White said on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 09:02:44 -0700

>We recently updated the three computers used by staff to Debian 12.
>My computer is still Debian 11.  

My personal opinion is it's much better to install texlive from the TUG
website rather than from your distro, because you can get everything
related to texlive at the TUG website. And whatever you do, never, EVER
install texlive from both TUG and your distro.

SteveT

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Re: Easiest to read page size

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 12:59:21 -0700 (PDT)

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2023, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> I've done some research on this topic. Generally speaking, each line
>> should be a little less than 70 characters. If they get much longer,
>> the reader has a hard time going to the proper next line. If they
>> get much shorter, you get increases hyphenation and funky inter-word
>> spacing.  
>
>Steve,
>
>That's consistent with what I read years ago when I consumed several
>books on typography.
>
>> Beyond that, a lot of readability hinges on where the reader will be
>> reading. Paper? PDF on full sized monitor? PDF on mobile device?
>> ePub? Combination of preceding?  
>
>The document is a PDF. I've set the page size to US Executive
>(8"x10"), text font is URW Palatino 11 pt. Outer margins are 0.5",
>inner margins 0.9" for binding (it's typeset for double-side printing.)
>
>If someone wants to read it on their mobile telephone, wristwatch, or
>eyeglasses it's up to them to do so.
>
>Thanks,

Hi Rich,

The fact that you're using double sided printing indicates to me that
your expected output format is paper. If the binding is at all stiff,
0.9" seems like too short an inside margin to me. 11pt is nice, but it
makes for some problems for those whose vision isn't correctable to
20/20. For those reasons I use 12pt or 14pt, but of course if you
expect your readership to be primarily young, 11pt is good. 11pt
would save a lot of printing cost compared to 12pt. I'm glad you didn't
choose 10pt.

I presume your choice of page size is done based on what book sizes can
be done for what price.

Bringing out a new book is always exciting.

SteveT

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Re: Easiest to read page size

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:36:55 -0700 (PDT)

>My web searches for the optimal printed document page size finds only
>hits on fonts, not the page size itself. I'm curious whether an
>executive page size (8x10 inches) would be more readable than the
>letter page size (8.5x11 inches) because each text line is shorter. If
>shorter text lines read more quickly then perhaps 6x9 inches would be
>a good page size.
>
>Those with more knowledge on page size and readability are encouraged
>to share their knowledge with me.

Hi Rich,

I've done some research on this topic. Generally speaking, each line
should be a little less than 70 characters. If they get much longer,
the reader has a hard time going to the proper next line. If they get
much shorter, you get increases hyphenation and funky inter-word
spacing.

Beyond that, a lot of readability hinges on where the reader will be
reading. Paper? PDF on full sized monitor? PDF on mobile device? ePub?
Combination of preceding?

By the way Rich, if it ends up that you need a custom size, let's say 5
inches high and 3 inches wide to fit a mobile device, I can help you
with that, as I'm already doing it. My method works for the standard
book document class; you can translate it into KOMA, which I believe is
your document class of choice.

SteveT

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Re: Adding standard enviroment text in a list

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT)

>I cannot grab a screen shot because
>moving off the LyX window to take a shot closes the right-click dialog
>box.

No problem. In your window manager or desktop or whatever, link an
unused key combo to the proper screenshot command. Or just install
dmenu and run the proper screenshot command from there.

SteveT

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Re: Ask for support for a small diploma work

[Steve Litt]

I'm a little confused about what's being asked, but if the goal is to
generate diplomas for people, Inkscape is a MUCH better alternative
than LyX. You put tokens in the diploma SVG file, run a simple
shellscript or Python or whatever to convert those tokens to the
current graduate from a list of graduates, and crank them out. Easy
Peazy, and with Inkscape you can align everything exactly how you want
it. I can't begin to imagine how horrible this job would be with LyX.

SteveT


Dan via lyx-users said on Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:59:43 +0200 (CEST)

>Hello,
>
>first and foremost, I think this topic
>(http://lists.lyx.org/pipermail/lyx-devel/2023-September/010691.html)
>fits best the user mailing list, not this one (development). So post
>there any further doubts or problems with this subject.
>
>
>>
>> Can someone tell me how to proceed so that I can write a
>> corresponding Lyx module?
>>
>>  
>I have searched the LyX's wiki for information on creating layouts and
>modules; a good starting point is this page:
>https://wiki.lyx.org/Layouts/CreatingLayouts
>
>Note that it references the Customization manual for information on
>layouts and modules, so you should read that as well, namely sections
>5.1, 5.2 and 5.3.
>
>Wish you luck with that!
>
>
>Daniel.
>--
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Re: pdf to inkscape

[Steve Litt]

Patrick Dupre said on Mon, 28 Aug 2023 22:50:50 +0200

>The problem has been fixed by downgrading the inkscape version down to
>1.2.2

I can't understand why you want Inkscape in the equation at all. Your
best data is in your LyX/Beamer file(s), so why not just use that for
whatever you want?

The SVG standard has no provision for multiple pages. Inkscape has
added XML elements to simulate multiple pages, but it's pretty
squirelly. Please understand I'm a huge fan of Inkscape, recommending
it over LyX for flyers and the like. All the graphics on
Troubleshooters.Com and in my books for the last 10 years were made
with Inkscape. But Inkscape isn't the right tool to manipulate long
text documents. LyX is. LaTeX is. Plain TeX is. Docbook is. But not
Inkscape.

Forgetting what technology is to be used, what is it you want to
accomplish?

SteveT
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Re: beamer usability

[Steve Litt]

Neal Becker said on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:49:45 -0400

>I've been using LyX for quite a while and beamer for even quite a while
>longer, but my knowledge of LyX is fairly superficial.

One man's opinion: When I use Beamer, I don't use LyX. From my
perspective, LyX adds more complication than convenience or capability.

I love LyX for long text documents, but for slide presentations,
letters, resumes and flyers, I think there are better ways to do things.


SteveT

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Re: poster a0

[Steve Litt]

Patrick Dupre said on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 17:17:34 +0200

>Hello,
>
>What are your recommendations to make a poster (a0) ?
>I tried Beamerposter.lyx available on GitHub, but I do not know how
>to control the colors (title, etc. )
>
>Thank.

If this thing is really a poster rather than a multipage document, and
especially if it has pictures and text specifically placed in certain
places, I recommend Inkscape instead of LyX.

SteveT

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Re: Laggy cursor

[Steve Litt]

Tim Garrett said on Mon, 07 Aug 2023 16:27:44 -0600

>I’ve been having a problem with cursor and typing speed. I find the
>speed of the cursor is inversely proportional to the length of the
>paragraph I write. Fine for one sentence. Anything more is pretty bad
>and of course gets tiresome. I’d appreciate any ideas as I’ve been a
>user since KLyX 0.3 in 2001 so pretty much my entire career is now on
>a super-laggy platform.

Hi Tim,

Either this is due to a slow computer or Klyx is slow.

A slow computer can be caused by a hardware problem, including bad
spots on your disk or a mostly full disk, or by resources gobbled by
other software. I can tell you that in my experience, KDE is a resource
hog. Also, most browsers are resource hogs, especially if they have a
lot of tabs open.

Slow Klyx can be caused by slow LyX or by the KlyX implementation being
slow.

The easiest test you can make is to save and archive a file that
exhibits this symptom, power your computer off, then power it on, and
before running anything else, open your saved file with Klyx. Leave the
archived version alone. Either the symptom gets less severe or it
doesn't. If it does, send us the output of:

lscpu
vmstat
df -h
lsof | wc -l

Those will help determine whether you're just too underpowered for KDE.

If the symptom is unchanged after powering off, install plain old LyX,
open the saved (not archived) file in LyX, and see whether performance
is noticibly better. If so, sounds like KlyX is a problem.

Just for fun, temporarily try using LXDE instead of KDE, and let us
know if it makes a big difference.

SteveT

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Re: UTF-8 and the Tufte Book document class

[Steve Litt]

R H van der Gaag said on Tue, 18 Jul 2023 14:50:47 +0200

>Hi all,
>I am writing a book using the Tufte Book document class, with the
>Tufte font included through ``\usepackage{ETbb}`` in the preamble.
>This works fine. But the encoding is T1, 

Bad idea. https://graphcom.com/type-1-fonts-discontinued-in-2023

Yeah, Adobe says somebody else will take over T1, and maybe that
will come to pass, but most people are going away from T1 now. No
matter what look you want, there will probably be non-T1 fonts to
achieve the look you want.

SteveT

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Re: latex vs xetex

[Steve Litt]

Patrick Dupre said on Thu, 29 Jun 2023 14:54:45 +0200

>Hello,
>
>I used to use lyx with latex.
>Now I get:
>Class moderncv Warning: "academicons requires xetex/luatex to work.
>Using alter natives.".
>
>How to I switch to xetex for a specific document?

I'm going to get a lot of static about this, but in any serious
documents I place a compile shellscript in the directory and use that
to compile the LyX document and display it in *my* PDF viewer. So each
doc has its own compilation method, and when there are problems, LyX is
almost completely ruled out as a root cause. It's either something I
did or an unfortunate CTAN change.

Over time, as things evolve, usually for the better, I can alter my
compile script to take advantage of the changes. With my compile
shellscript, I can do a reconfigure every time with configure.py. I
name my shellscript something like jj so when it's time to recompile my
book I simply do ./jj  . After all, I'm already in the book's directory.

SteveT

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Re: How do I increase TL2023 TeX capacity?

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Wed, 28 Jun 2023 06:44:45 -0700 (PDT)

>On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, Herbert Voss wrote:
>
>> You can try to increase the stack.for example
>> stack_size = 2  % simultaneous input sources
>> Put this into a file /usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf.cnf
>> Create it, if not present. The main system configuration file is in 
>> .../texmf-dist/web2c/
>> but should not be touched. Then run fmtutil-sys --all  
>
>Herbert,
>
>Did all this.
>
>Tried compiling the book and get the same error, but with the
>stack_size at 2. The build stops at the same point: `Data' on line
>402.
>
>Should I increase the stack_size more (there's 32G RAM on this host)?

You can, and I suggest you try it just in case it works, but my
experience tells me that out of stack errors are caused by bad LaTeX
authoring, not a correct LaTeX file that just happens to need a little
more stack.

I know how to fix this. Archive what you currently have, copy it to
mwe.lyx, then start subtracting stuff until only the essentials of the
requirements to produce the error remain. Archive that file as mwe.lyx.
Then, with some experimentation, the root cause should stick out like a
sore thumb, and once you find it, you can fix it either by fixing the
root cause in the originally archived document, or by slowly building
up the fixed mwe until it becomes obvious how to fix the original file.

Even if this doesn't work for you, asking questions about mwe.lyx would
*greatly* increase the likelihood of somebody accurately answering your
questions.

I run into this hassle all the time. It's frustrating and time
consuming, but if you follow the process, fixing it isn't rocket
science.


SteveT

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Re: pdflatex build error: Mismatched LaTeX support files detected

[Steve Litt]

Herbert Voss said on Tue, 20 Jun 2023 07:01:36 +0200


>Rich,
>
>that looks like a mismatch between TeXLive from TUG 
>(/usr/local/texlive/)
>and from your  linux distribution (/usr/share/tex...)
>
>what is the output of
>which -a fmtutil-sys

Several years ago I de-installed the distro-provided TeXLive and used
only TUG provided TeXLive (with tlmgr), and I've been very happy ever
since. My experience is that I got very weird intermittent
appearing errors when both were installed.

SteveT

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Re: open old LyX format fails

[Steve Litt]

Herbert Voss said on Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:19:27 +0200

>Hello all,
>
>I have an really old document and want to open it with
>2.4.0 Beta2, but it fail with: "Incompatible Command"
>
>My old format is 2.18
>
>macOS Sonora and TL23
>
>Any hints?

It's pretty easy to install several versions of LyX on the same
computer. I'd see if I could convert it using a LyX older than 2.4.0
Beta2, and if I can, then I'd try to convert the converted file to
2.4.0 Beta2. Obviously I'd back up the original file and back up at
each successful stage.

SteveT

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Re: Installing a new font in TexLive2023

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:14:39 -0700 (PDT)

>I'm starting to learn the memoir class for my book and want to add the
>URW Classico san-serif type family in TeXLive2023. The URW Palatino
>family is in
>/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/fonts/vf/urw35vf/palatino/.
>
>Du I unzip urw-classico.zip in that .../vf/directory? And what is the
>TeX command to make it visible to TeXLive2023 and LyX?

What I did was remove all distribution-provided texlive and grabbed it
from CTAN, including the tlmgr program, which makes it easy to install
new fonts.

SteveT

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hvextern

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

I just found out today that Herbert Voss has recently (starting about a
year ago) created software, called hvextern, that takes a separate
source code file, and turns it into an image file for inclusion in your
document. Here's a quote from https://ctan.org/pkg/hvextern?lang=en :

"This package allows to write METAPOST, TEX, ConTEXt, LATEX, LuaTEX,
LuaLATEX, XETEX, XELATEX, Lua, Perl, or Python source code into an
external file, run that file via shell-escape to create PDF, PNG, or
text output, and include that output automatically into the main LATEX
document."

This means that as the source code changes, you just rerun hvextern and
recompile your LaTeX document. I see no reason why this can't be used
in LyX too. If you're a technical author like I am, this just might be
a pretty big deal.

If you want a several-page detailed description of hvexern and its use
and capabilities, you can see Herbert's article at
https://tug.org/TUGboat/tb43-3/tb135voss-extern.pdf . It was included in
in TUGboat volume 43, #3. 

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: MWE compiles; full file doesn't

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Mon, 22 May 2023 18:03:49 -0700 (PDT)

>On Mon, 22 May 2023, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> Either your MWE failed to isolate the root cause, or there are two
>> (probably clashing or interacting) root causes and you only got one
>> of them.
>>
>> Just start with a copy of the whole document and subtract little by
>> little until something you subtract causes the symptom to disappear.
>> Then put that piece back in and leave that piece permanently in and
>> subtract other things little by little until the symptom again
>> toggles, and once again put it back in permanently. Continue until
>> there's nothing left to subtract.  
>
>SteveT,
>
>I've used this document (modified as necessary) with similar projects
>without any issues. This one uses un-numbered sectioning rather than
>numbered ones, otherwise it's essentially the same.

All I'm saying is if the MWE doesn't reproduce the symptom, it's not a
MWE at all. I was just explaining how to make an MWE that reproduces the
symptom.


SteveT

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Re: MWE compiles; full file doesn't

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Mon, 22 May 2023 14:54:54 -0700 (PDT)

>This is a new one for me: the full document won't compile (but it did
>one time) while the MWE compiles each time. The error is in the
>heading; the MWE has my company logo (.pdf not attached), a title, a
>subtitle and a date. The date (or the last line of the subtitle) is
>highlighted when the build fails.
>
>The whole document has the same, plus the document content.
>
>The entire lyx error file is attached.
>
>I'm not seeing why I cannot compile the entire doc.
>
>Help's needed.
>
>Rich


Either your MWE failed to isolate the root cause, or there are two
(probably clashing or interacting) root causes and you only got one of
them. 

Just start with a copy of the whole document and subtract little by
little until something you subtract causes the symptom to disappear.
Then put that piece back in and leave that piece permanently in and
subtract other things little by little until the symptom again toggles,
and once again put it back in permanently. Continue until there's
nothing left to subtract.

HTH,

SteveT

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Re: relative refernces

[Steve Litt]

Daniel said on Sun, 21 May 2023 20:18:37 +0200

>On 2023-05-19 01:02, Josh Burdeshaw wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Am trying to create a link to a .msg (email) file. I am able to
>> create a working link using the \href{URL}{text} only when the link
>> is an absolute path. When I change the path to a relative path the
>> link gives the following message:
>> 
>> image.png
>> 
>> -- 
>> Josh Burdeshaw
>>   
>
>Looks like an interesting issue for LyX. Maybe there should be an
>option to create the PDF in the directory of the LyX file. The easiest
>would be probably to first create the PDF as usual, but then put a
>copy of it into the document directory and open that.
>
>Daniel

I usually just have a shellscript to export to PDF or LaTeX, and if
LaTeX, compile it. Also deal with images needing conversion. Within that
shellscript I can set any directories I want to. I enjoy this method
because I know exactly every step of the conversion process.

SteveT

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Re: My book isn't compiling, having something to do with refstyle

[Steve Litt]

Udicoudco said on Wed, 3 May 2023 00:32:30 +0300

>On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:11 AM Steve Litt 
>wrote:
>>
>> One of my books, which a couple weeks ago compiled just fine, now
>> errors out as follows:'
>>
>> Argument of \eqref has an extra }.
>>
>> 1) Did something change about the refstyle package in the last few
>> weeks?  

Good. So I'm not crazy. Thanks for the info!

>
>The amsmath package robustified \eqref and it broke how refstyle
>handled amsmath.
>
>> 2) Did LyX make a change that affected how the refstyle package
>> works?  
>
>No that I'm aware of.

Good. One less thing to worry about.

>
>> 3) Within the LyX user interface, where can I see the configuration
>> that affects the usage of the refstyle package?  
>
>What exactly do you mean?

:-)

Rereading, I see I didn't express myself clearly.

I found the answer to my badly expressed question. On the 
Document=>Document_settings=>Document_class window there's a checkbox
called "Use Refstyle (Not Prettyref) for cross reference". It was
checked. I unchecked it, the document compiled, and I couldn't find any
differences in the PDF, so I worked around the problem.

Everyone, if you have "Use Refstyle (Not Prettyref) for cross
reference" checked on the Document Class window, be on the lookout for
trouble if you have later TeXLive installations. I recently upgraded
from 2021 to 2023 a week or so ago, and I'm pretty sure that's why the
symptom appeared at about the same time.

>
>FWIW, Jürgen Spitzmüller notified the author of refstly,
>and he replied that he will fix it.

Excellent!

>See also https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/12708 and
>https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg114795.html

:-) I should have read that thread more carefully.

Thanks for the help, Udi.

SteveT

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My book isn't compiling, having something to do with refstyle

[Steve Litt]

One of my books, which a couple weeks ago compiled just fine, now
errors out as follows:'

Argument of \eqref has an extra }.

By MWEing the created TeX file and running LuaLaTeX on it, I found that
the problem disappears when I commented out \input refstyle , except
that *then* other problems happened. I found nothing about refstyle in
any of my document settings, nor in my layout file. Looking at my LyX
file in Vim, I found the following line:

\use_refstyle 1

So in the editor I changed the 1 to 0, saved and ran LyX again. This
time I got an error on almost every \ref, or at least about 10 of them.

So here are my questions:

1) Did something change about the refstyle package in the last few
weeks?

2) Did LyX make a change that affected how the refstyle package works?

3) Within the LyX user interface, where can I see the configuration
that affects the usage of the refstyle package?

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: how to tell LyX that there is a 2023 texlive

[Steve Litt]

José Matos said on Tue, 02 May 2023 16:42:17 +0100

>On Tue, 2023-05-02 at 16:43 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
>> How can I tell LyX that there is a 2023 texlive which I installed
>> just now.
>> 
>> It is in
>> /usr/local/texlive/2023
>> and I have the PATHs set in ~/.profile.
>> 
>> However, LyX uses still
>> /usr/local/texlive/2022
>> 
>> Wolfgang  
>
>What happens if you try:
>Tools -> Reconfigure
>
>then restart LyX.
>
>Does that works?

Before doing that, if I were you I'd do a texhash as root.

SteveT

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Re: Add parameter to the index entry

[Steve Litt]

Ehud Behar said on Mon,  1 May 2023 19:35:50 +

>Sorry, I don't understand your question.

And I don't understand your answer. There's no quoted context. Do you
expect me, or anyone else, to look through all their recent messages to
try to deduce whom and what you're responding to? Or do you think we
all have those magic superthreading email clients?

Seriously folks, don't think of it as netiquette, think of it as
communicating unambiguously. Trim **unnecessary** context but keep the
relevant context. Interleave post with your response directly below the
sentence or paragraph you're responding to. It's not rocket science. If
for some reason you can't do this, why not switch to a forum, or IRC,
or a Slack or Discord venue?

Mailing lists are a wonderful resource. Everyone should endeavor to
keep them informative and unambiguous.

SteveT

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Re: centering frame titles in beamer

[Steve Litt]

Tom Goldring said on Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:18:13 -0400

>I am able to create a slide presentation in LyX using beamer. Is there 
>an easy way to center the frame titles without going through trial and 
>error adjustments (depending on the length of the frame title) for
>each frame?

Hi Tom,

Could you please attach a small, 2 slide example sliver of your
document that demonstrates the frame title, without attempting to
center it. You've already learned the right way to center it, but I'd
like to try an alternative way, and will report whether my idea works.
Once again, the real way is what Paul Rubin said, but I'd like to take
a crack at it.

SteveT

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Re: Bulk changing environments in Lyx

[Steve Litt]

Udicoudco said on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 03:24:09 +0300

>On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 2:10 AM Steve Litt 
>wrote:
>>
>> Dr Paul Verschueren said on Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:12:10 +
>>  
>> >Dear all -
>> >I just had to change the AMS document type for a long paper.  
>>
>> Does long paper really require a change of doctype? I think you can
>> do what you need by putting the following two lines in your  
>> Docuument=>settings=>Latex_preamble:  
>>
>> 
>> \pageheight=14in %Paper height
>> \pagewidth=8.5in  %Paper width
>> 
>>
>> The preceding works as long as you compile with luatex, which is the
>> best way to compile anyway. I don't know about the AMS document type,
>> but my best guess would be it would accommodate the preceding.
>> Naturally you'd need to change all the margins in LyX, but that's
>> easy.
>>
>>  
>
>The primitives macros called \pageheight and \pagewidth are not
>responsible for the size of the text block, they are only changing
>the size of the media box that the pdf reader displays.

Exactly! You change the margins, and therefore the size of the text
block, in LyX itself.

>
>They were first introduced in pdftex
>(where they are called \pdfpageheight
>and \pdfpagewidth, and in xetex as well)
>since the pdf format is not meant to be used
>just for printing.
>
>On the other hand, LaTeX is using
>two macros called \paperheight and \paperwidth
>to control the text block (they are basically \textwidth and
>\textheight plus some extra space for the margins).

This is true. I've used \paperheight and \paperwidth in some of my LyX
authored books meant to be read on a small device, so these are
probably a better way to go.

SteveT

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Re: Bulk changing environments in Lyx

[Steve Litt]

Dr Paul Verschueren said on Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:12:10 +

>Dear all -
>I just had to change the AMS document type for a long paper.

Does long paper really require a change of doctype? I think you can do
what you need by putting the following two lines in your
Docuument=>settings=>Latex_preamble:


\pageheight=14in %Paper height
\pagewidth=8.5in  %Paper width


The preceding works as long as you compile with luatex, which is the
best way to compile anyway. I don't know about the AMS document type,
but my best guess would be it would accommodate the preceding.
Naturally you'd need to change all the margins in LyX, but that's easy.

>I have made heavy use of the paragraph/subparagraph environments, but
>these do not exist(!) in the new doctype. Is there any way of doing a
>find/replace via Lyx? If not, is there any alternative to hacking the
>Lyx source, and does anyone foresee any gotchas with this approach?
>(I'll obviously take a backup first). Many thanks

If worst comes to worst, you could create a new document type,
based on whatever new document type you are moving to, in a layout
file, and just create new paragraph/subparagraphs environments.

SteveT

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Re: Fonts for LyX

[Steve Litt]

Eckhard Höffner said on Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:56:58 +0200


>At the following link you can find the font and a long PDF document 
>created with LyX, which practically only uses the package realscripts 
>for the preamble.
>
>https://www.fatto.de/wiki/doku.php/playground:font

Thanks Eckhard,

OK, so I downloaded the four fonts:

[slitt@mydesk VES]$ ls -l
total 484
-rw-r--r-- 1 slitt slitt  90264 Mar 28 23:17 CMRV11-Italic.otf
-rw-r--r-- 1 slitt slitt 139244 Apr  1 13:36 CMRV11-Regular.otf
-rw-r--r-- 1 slitt slitt  82044 Apr  1 13:35 CMRV11-Semibold-Italic.otf
-rw-r--r-- 1 slitt slitt 174576 Apr  1 13:35 CMRV11-Semibold.otf
[slitt@mydesk VES]$

Some questions:

1. Where do I put these four files so they're visible to my (CTAN
installed) TeXLive system yet not intermingled with TeXLive provided
fonts?

2. How do I install them? I assume I run texhash, but what else?

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: Success of LyX to dvi depends on file paths

[Steve Litt]

Paul Stansell said on Fri, 24 Mar 2023 01:56:56 +


>Yes, I tried that already.  This is what it shows:
>
>This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live
>2022/dev/Debian) (preloaded format=latex)

Can pdfTeX even make a .dvi? I thought pdfTeX skips the .dvi step and
goes right to PDF.

Anyway, stuff like this is why I use shellscripts to compile my LyX
files. I think they're called "batch files" or "powerscripts" in
Windows. Compiling with shellscripts, I'm not beholden to  LyX' current
settings, and it's a lot easier to debug a shellscript.

SteveT

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Re: Insert an empty line in beamer

[Steve Litt]

Ehud Behar said on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 19:46:37 +

>I want to print the following in my beamer document:
>"
>First line
>Second line
>"

[snip]

>Any idea how to insert a (real) empty line in the editor?

I'm confused as to what you're trying to accomplish, and have no idea
what a "real" empty line is. I also don't know what LyX does to Beamer
(I use Beamer directly, without LyX), and I have no idea how the
Beamer macro package changes the behavior of normal LaTeX macros.

But I do know this about LaTeX: The following produces the phrase
"First line" directly over the phrase "Second line".

=
~\\[0ex]First line\\[1ex]Second line
=

The purpose of the ~\\[0ex] is so the next two lines aren't subject to
the paragraph's indenting. The distance between the lines can be
adjusted by modifying the 1ex. You can create a character style to
express the command above, and use that character so you wouldn't
need to use ERT. 

>What I do now is I insert an empty line with an ERT box.

If you're satisfied with the spacing your ERT box presents, it would be
almost trivial to create a character style that puts a box at the end
of the line.

SteveT

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Re: Broken document

[Steve Litt]

Daniel said on Thu, 16 Mar 2023 08:18:33 +0100


>Thanks, awesome!
>
>Maybe a solution would be if LyX loads fonts later in general? Or
>would that lead to other problems?

Of course the later font load might screw up other things, and would
certainly need to be done before things start getting written to the
dvi or pdf.

The older I get, the more I wonder if LaTeX is really better than Plain
TeX. LaTeX has all sorts of conflicting packages, its Document Classes
are never exactly what I want, and in fact the two times I started a
book with anything but the Book Document Class (which I was forced to
modify heavily every time to get what I needed), all sorts of conflicts
popped up. 

It's true that LaTeX has zillions of packages that make hard things
easy, but those packages also require more layers of abstraction and
often cause conflicts.

Like LaTeX, Plain TeX can be used both as a markup language and a
Turing Complete language. Markup is easier with Plain TeX, and Plain
TeX is much more easily exported from styles-based XML, making it a
great component for a write once/deploy everywhere tool.

The hairiest thing I ever did in LaTeX was in my book "The Key to
Everyday Excellence", a teaching-fiction book in which the plot skipped
around in time so much that I set up LaTeX to write, in the page header,
the date on which the current page was taking place. Ha, little did I
know that ten years later it would be a hip thing to confuse the reader
or viewer as to whether something was current or back-story, and if the
latter, when.

Anyway, when I learn more Plain TeX, I'll be trying the date-in-header
trick in Plain TeX too.

I'm not suggesting LyX switch to outputting Plain TeX. It's about 25
years too late for a decision like that. I'm just saying it doesn't
surprise me that there's a question of changing when fonts are defined.

SteveT

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Type1 fonts now obsolete

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

You probably know this already, but in January 2023 Adobe software
stopped supporting Type1 fonts. This means that any documents
containing Type1 fonts cannot be accurately depicted on the latest Adobe
software. This pretty much means Type1 fonts shouldn't be used.

Now I'll need to audit all my books, some of which were written in the
20th century, to make sure they don't use Type1 fonts, and if they do,
change to the closest possible Opentype or Truetype fonts.

SteveT

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Re: Insert a command Before \documentclass&In-Reply-To=

[Steve Litt]

tush via lyx-users said on Tue, 28 Feb 2023 21:23:36 +

>Thanks for your reply.
>I want to print a document with font size 11.5pt.
>When I do the fontspec command '\setmathrm{Latin Modern Roman}' I get
>the warning
>
>LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape OML/cmm/m/it in size <11.5> not
>available size <12> substituted on input line 44.
>
>If you have any idea how to come over this, you are more than welcome
>to post it.
>

I don't know if this would work, but just for fun try using luatex and
lualatex to compile. I think you specify luatex in one of the LyX
config windows. Luatex and lualatex enable you to do a lot more with
fonts than the other compilers.

SteveT

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Re: Reconfigure from script

[Steve Litt]

Richard Kimberly Heck said on Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:35:36 -0500

>On 2/18/23 18:11, Mark Livingstone wrote:
>> Hi People,
>>
>> I am using LyX 2.3.7 on Mac OS Ventura.
>>
>> Is it possible to run reconfigure from script in the terminal, if so
>> how?  
>
>Just execute the file configure.py. It will write the relevant files
>to the current working directory, so make sure you are where you want
>to be when you call it.

Where do you want to be?

Must you run it as root?

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: Has LyX Been Hacked?

[Steve Litt]

Pavel Sanda said on Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:04:48 +0100


>The more interesting question is they chinese error message. We haven't
>received any similar report of this yet and I have very little idea
>what could go wrong.

I'm just guessing here, but LyX supports multiple languages. Perhaps
the OP inadvertently has LyX' language set to Chinese?

SteveT

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Re: Changing default for view C-r?

[Steve Litt]

Neal Becker said on Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:09:00 -0500

>I'm just playing with lyx-2.4 beta (thanks for providing the copr on
>Fedora!).
>How do I customize so that lualatex is used when I hit C-r?

I'm a huge fan of LuaLaTeX but it does have one disadvantage: It takes
(subjectively) about twice as long to compile a LaTeX document to PDF.

Most people don't care whether the occasional LyX=>PDF takes 30 second
or 50 seconds because they do this so rarely, but in my case my book
fulfillment process compiles the doc for every eBook emailed out. 

Because of this extra time, I haven't hurried to make *all* my books
compile with LuaLaTeX. Note that my finding is subjective and
anecdotal, so more info is needed.

SteveT

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Re: multi paragraph inside a command

[Steve Litt]

tush via lyx-users said on Sat, 31 Dec 2022 20:32:12 +

>I created a style in my local layout that has "LatexType Command".
>Is it possible to allow the user to insert multiple lines of text
>inside this command? Something like the option MultiPar 1 (which is
>good only for InsetLayout Flex, not for Style.)
>
>What I want is to get the following Latex code:
>
>\mycommand{Lorem ipsum
>〈¶〉
>dolor
>〈¶〉
>sit amet}

I like Udi's solution a lot better, but you can linefeed with
\\[measurement] .

SteveT

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Re: Outline for giving speeches

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Sun, 13 Nov 2022 05:49:48 -0800 (PST)

>On Sun, 13 Nov 2022, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> LyX is great for writing books and other long documents, but I'd
>> personally recommend an outliner for making an outline. If you know
>> Vim and want simple, you can use VimOutliner. If you want the
>> Cadillac of the industry, you can use the Leo outliner.  
>
>Don't forget Emacs' outline mode. Works great. It's the basis for the
>Getting Things Done organizer.
>
>Rich

True.

SteveT

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Re: Outline for giving speeches

[Steve Hnizdur]

On 12/11/2022 17:30, Lou wrote:

Hi Steve and Axel,

Thank you very much for responding.


...


I can't get this to work. The fonts change, but the numbers do not 
change to \Roman (or whatever they are set to in the renewcommand), and 
indention doesn't happen. Is there something else I need to do besides 
placing your code in the preamble?


Lou




The advice given by Steve Litt is probably the best, but if you want to 
do this in Lyx/Latex then the attached examples show a way to do it 
(assuming I understand your needs)


This is a bit of a hack as Latex very much wants to be in control of layout.

In the preamble there are a series of newcommands and renewcommands for 
each level. In the newcommand there is the indent for the header and in 
the following renewcommand at the very end is a leftskip which sets the 
indent for the following blocks of text. Change these to what you want. 
In addition you may want to change the font at each level in which case 
the standard Lyx methods can be used.


As you can see from the pdf the numbering is in alpha/roman etc as 
defined in the preamble. If your set up is not doing this then query 
operating system/Lyx version etc.


Hope that helps - good luck

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MWE99.lyx
Description: application/lyx


MWE99.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: Outline for giving speeches

[Steve Litt]

Lou said on Fri, 11 Nov 2022 21:08:52 -0600

>How can I change Lyx sectioning to look like this:
>
>I.  Level 1
>     A. Level 2
>     B. Level 2
>    1. Level 3
>    2. Level 3
>   a. Level 4
>   b. Level 4
>II. Level 1
>
>
>The purpose being to use Lyx for making outlines for giving speeches.
>
>Thanks for any help.

LyX is great for writing books and other long documents, but I'd
personally recommend an outliner for making an outline. If you know Vim
and want simple, you can use VimOutliner. If you want the Cadillac of
the industry, you can use the Leo outliner.

By the way, when I write a book, I outline it in VimOutliner, and when
the outline's done, I run it through a simple program that turns the
outline headings into LyX headings, and the outline body text to
Standard paragraphs.

SteveT

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Re: Outline for giving speeches

[Steve Hnizdur]

On 12/11/2022 03:54, Lou wrote:

On 11/11/22 21:08, Lou wrote:


How can I change Lyx sectioning to look like this:

I.  Level 1
    A. Level 2
    B. Level 2
   1. Level 3
   2. Level 3
  a. Level 4
  b. Level 4
II. Level 1


The purpose being to use Lyx for making outlines for giving speeches.

Thanks for any help.

Lou



Perhaps the following will make clearer what I would like:

  I. Section
     A. Subsection
     B. Subsection
    1. Subsubsection
    2. Subsubsection
   a. Paragraph
   b. Paragraph
   i. Subparagraph
  ii. Subparagraph
II. Section





Try adding

\setcounter{tocdepth}{5}
\setcounter{secnumdepth}{5}
\renewcommand{\section}{\@startsection{section}
  {1}%  {level}
  {0pt}%{indent}
  {-3.5ex plus -1ex minus -0.2ex}%  {beforeskip}
  {2.3ex plus 0.2ex}%   {afterskip}
  {\normalfont\Huge\bfseries}%  {style}
}
\renewcommand{\thesection}{\Roman{section}.}

\renewcommand{\subsection}{\@startsection{subsection}
  {2}%  {level}
  {30pt}%   {indent}
  {-3.5ex plus -1ex minus -0.2ex}%  {beforeskip}
  {2.3ex plus 0.2ex}%   {afterskip}
  {\normalfont\Large\bfseries}% {style}
}
\renewcommand{\thesubsection}{\Alph{subsection}.}

\renewcommand{\subsubsection}{\@startsection{subsubsection}
  {3}%  {level}
  {40pt}%   {indent}
  {-3.5ex plus -1ex minus -0.2ex}%  {beforeskip}
  {2.3ex plus 0.2ex}%   {afterskip}
  {\normalfont\bfseries}%   {style}
}
\renewcommand{\thesubsubsection}{\arabic{subsubsection}.}

\renewcommand{\paragraph}{\@startsection{paragraph}
  {4}%  {level}
  {50pt}%   {indent}
  {-3.5ex plus -1ex minus -0.2ex}%  {beforeskip}
  {2.3ex plus 0.2ex}%   {afterskip}
  {\normalfont\small\bfseries}% {style}
}
\renewcommand{\theparagraph}{\alph{paragraph}.}

\renewcommand{\subparagraph}{\@startsection{subparagraph}
  {5}%  {level}
  {60pt}%   {indent}
  {-3.5ex plus -1ex minus -0.2ex}%  {beforeskip}
  {2.3ex plus 0.2ex}%   {afterskip}
  {\normalfont\tiny\bfseries}%  {style}
}
\renewcommand{\thesubparagraph}{\roman{subparagraph}.}

to your preamble.

The reneacommands for section ... subparagraph  contain formatting 
commands which you can set to whatever you fancy. I've put some possible 
values in to show some of the possibilities.


The indent and style lines are hopefully obvious. A bit of 
experimentation will give the effect you want.


This works for me with the basic article style.

Hope that helps.

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Re: MWE: two issues need resolving

[Steve Litt]

I'm taking the unusual step of top-posting because my comments pertain
to the entirety of Rich's post...

Rich, this was not a quality MWE. The map's PDF had a hard-coded path
that needed to be erased. Your bibliographies failed because you didn't
include ../jabrefdb.bib, or at least it didn't exist on my computer.
Given that your complaints didn't seem to involve your bibliography, it
would have made our lives easier if you'd removed your bibliography
reference, and also if your MWE operated from files in one directory,
and you tested to make sure only the asked-about problems were in the
MWE.

After taking the time to remove hard coded paths, get rid of your
bibliography entry (because no ../jabrefdb.bib), and set your
bibliography back to Bibtex(Basic), it compiled on my LyX Version
2.3.6.1, and by clicking your map image and checking the "scale
graphics" box and putting a number in the field to its right, I was
able to scale the map, on the resulting compiled PDF, to any size I
wanted to, including 75%, which didn't page feed.

If your LyX version is later than 2.3.6.1 then maybe the version change
accounts for your image scaling trouble. Otherwise, go back and make
your MWE a real MWE and keep narrowing it down until you find the root
cause.

SteveT

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Rich Shepard said on Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:32:18 -0700 (PDT)

>The figure will not resize. Originally at 75% text width I tried to
>make it smaller so it wouldn't be on a page by itself, but even at 25%
>it stays the same size when I compile the document. Also, I modified
>the caption and the change is not shown in the compiled .pdf. Perhaps
>this is related to the next issue:
>
>Compiling the document produces errors that the old-format, '\sc', is
>no longer valid, but the error points to a PDF stored in JabRef. I've
>no idea where pdflatex finds that code in a .pdf file.
>
>Not a fun start to Friday. The .lyx file, .pdf image, and .pdf article
>are available (for 5 days) from
><http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g258e05271f382a1e1000460491172b957e2f9f6e09>
>as the 2+Mb file is too large for the mail list.
>
>TIA,
>
>Rich
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Re: Few bits about netiquette (was: Drawing an arc)

[Steve Litt]

Pavel Sanda said on Thu, 20 Oct 2022 09:59:27 +0200

>On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 09:37:33AM +0200, Pavel Sanda wrote:
>> > Also, interleave posting and context trimming should be explained.
>> >  
>> 
>> Could you create such explaining page at our wiki so beginners get
>> it?  
>
>We actually have more detailed page here
>https://wiki.lyx.org/FAQ/ListNetiquette so you could add your point
>about interleaving...

Yes. A great place would be
https://wiki.lyx.org/FAQ/ListNetiquette#replying . 

I'll of course run it by all of you before modifying this wiki, but I
think references to old-timers and senile old buggers should be
removed. It's not old vs young, it's clarity vs ambiguity. Also, bottom
posting is just a special case of interleave posting. Bottom posting is
compatible with interleave posting, whereas top posting destroys
interleave posting. I'll try to have the text, for the project's
approval, in a month.

Thanks!

SteveT

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Re: Few bits about netiquette (was: Drawing an arc)

[Steve Litt]

Pavel Sanda said on Thu, 20 Oct 2022 09:37:33 +0200


>> Also, interleave posting and context trimming should be explained.  
>
>Could you create such explaining page at our wiki so beginners get it?
>We could add the netiquette links to initial subscribe-list emails.

I probably can if given some time. It's not a hard job, but right now
my personal and computer life is in a state of upheaval, with each
messing up the other. So give me a month or so, and please keep
reminding me. This is a task that's right up my alley.

SteveT

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Re: Few bits about netiquette (was: Drawing an arc)

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 2022-10-19 at 11:26 -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:


> How about a maximum of one use of "RTM" per year? Use it wisely.

This is impractical, because there are so many people who ask questions without 
one
minute's research.

> 
> I would be in favor of a policy that encourages respectful, and
> informative, replies. 

The preceding sentence sounds great in theory, but in practice how do you 
enforce it
non-selectively. What about the guy who keeps getting in little digs until the
target gives it to him full force? There are people who specialize in staying 
just
within the margins, continuously poking at their target, and then chuckle when 
the
target is declared to have infringed the rules.

You know, the LyX project should have a prominent and obvious document stating 
the
following:

* Be nice, pleasant and helpful

* Interleave post

* Trim all irrelevant quoted context

* Before emailing:

* Do at least 15 minutes research
* Try to make a Minimum Working Example

Naturally, the whole concept of a MWE and instructions how to make one should 
also
be explained, probably as a link to "Try to make a Minimum Working Example". You
might even add that about 2/3 of the problems get solved without help if the 
person
makes a real MWE.

Also, interleave posting and context trimming should be explained.


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Re: Drawing an arc

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 2022-10-09 at 23:25 +0200, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
> So, because I can include images, questions about Photoshop should be
> asked here?
> 
> There are 18 Million Tikz hits on Google.
> 
> el

That's it. Life's too short to deal with a snarky annoyance machine like Doctor
Lisse, so I've piped him to /dev/null. 

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Re: Drawing an arc

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 19:14 +0200, Daniel wrote:
> On 2022-10-06 14:29, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
> > Computers can be used to type.
> > 
> > el
> > 
> > On 06/10/2022 08:41, Daniel wrote:
> > > On 04/10/2022 23:03, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
> > > > What does this have to do with LyX?
> > > > 
> > > > el
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > LyX can be used to output LaTeX documents. TikZ can be used in LaTeX via
> > > a package. Or did you mean something more specific?
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> I meant to imply a *close* relation. Anyway, I think as long as there is 
> an obvious relation why you want to do something in LyX, like LaTeX 
> stuff, it seems to me that those questions are "okay" on the list. And 
> some people seem to happily answer them as well. I guess
> 
> "This list is for questions on how to get LyX working and how to use LyX"
> 
> is (intentionally) a bit vague. (Unlike, say, that bottom posting is 
> preferable.)

Yeah, I was going to mention the top posting thing too. And if a person wants 
to use
Tikz in LaTeX to include geometric figures in their LyX documents and therefore 
asks
questions on the LyX list, only a wannabe list cop would object.

You know, I just might study Tikz. It sounds interesting.

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Re: Use better subject lines, please? (Was: question)

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-09-22 at 09:20 -0400, Kevin Cole wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since most lists that I'm on seem to consist of messages that begin as a
> question, followed by replies attempting to answer the question or gather
> more information, a subject line consisting of nothing but the word
> "question" is pretty useless.
> 
> So, a gentle nudge to some: Try to come up with a concise subject line that
> summarizes the actual question, please. No need to include the word
> "question" (in most cases, I suspect, though there's always an exception to
> a rule somewhere).
> 
> Thanks!

Absolutely true!

For more on making email communication easier and more straightforward, 
everybody
who speaks English should read the following document:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Also, the LyX list was the list I remember that introduced itself to the MWE, 
the
minimal example necessary to produce the symptom. Using an MWE makes the cause
obvious to those in the know, and if your life is like mine, by the time you've
created the MWE, the root cause is obvious to you so you needn't post the 
question
at all.

I can add some things:

* Don't top-post in a group discussion: It breaks relationships between 
questions
and answers.

* Instead, interleave post, where you answer each question directly below the
question. This way all know which question the answer is answering.

* If you simply must top post in a group discussion, instead of using pronouns,
reproduce exactly what you're talking about. Those who top-post "I agree, and
furthermore the foo should come earlier" leave the ambiguities: 1) With whom 
does he
agree and about what, and 2) The foo should come earlier than what?

* When you email a lot of questions, anticipate top posters, and number your
questions so the top poster can at least use those numbers to link the answer 
to the
question.

* Nothing I've said here implies you shouldn't follow the usual and customary
business email standard of top posting in order to preserve every assertion and
cover everybody's ass.

* Whether you top post or not, remove all context quotes not relevant to what 
you're
saying. This makes your meaning much clearer, and removes the task of reading
through hundreds or thousands of moot words. The #1 argument FOR top-posting in
mailinng lists is people don't want to go through hundreds or thousands of words
just to get to what you say. This is a valid argument, but if you remove 
unneeded
context quotes this argument ceases to be a problem.

* For free software centric mailing lists, for gosh sakes use plain text, not 
html.

* Make sure your email client does quoting in a way that different peoples'
contributions are identified by indents or color or whatever their email client
does. There's nothing like reading an email with same-level quoting, in which it
looks like the poster is arguing with himself and you can't tell who said what.

By the way, most of what I mention above applies to any group discussion: email,
forums, slack, stackoverflow, or others.

SteveT

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ERT: Was: I don't see my error

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 2022-09-12 at 12:27 +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Le 11/09/2022 à 14:46, Rich Shepard a écrit :
> > On Sun, 11 Sep 2022, Steve Litt wrote:
> > 
> > > If one prefers not to put it in ERT,
> > 
> > Many years ago I expressed the opinion (on the mail list) that the term
> > should be changed because there's nothing evil about inserting LaTeX in a
> > LyX document. I was ignored.
> 
> What is evil in Embedded Raw Text ? :-p
> 
> More seriously, I could not find where ERT is defined in our 
> documentation (it is used without explanation, though). There are a 
> couple of mentions of Evil Red Text in Additional.lyx, but they assume 
> that the user know what it is.

ERT does (or did) indeed stand for Evil Red Text. ERT is the method for 
inserting
raw LaTeX into a LyX document. In 2001, when I first joined the LyX list and 
began
using LyX to write books, ERT was widely used, and eerybody referred to it 
as
ERT. Evil because it's usually not really the best way to do things. Red, 
because at
the time (and I think still) it was red within the LyX screen on which you type.
Text, because whatever text you put in would be interpreted as LaTeX.

LyX has progressed amazingly in the past 2 decades, so ERT is less necessary 
now.
ERT has a different and more descriptive name now, but I don't know what it is,
because about the only place I use ERT is in the frontmatter in order to get the
front cover graphic aligned correctly, and to guarantee a few pagefeeds. 
Because I
use it so little, I rarely talk about it. I never thought of it before, but I 
still
use the 20 year old phrase "ERT" instead of its modern name. I'm sorry for the
confusion.

SteveT

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Re: I don't see my error

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-09-08 at 17:19 -0400, Paul A. Rubin wrote:
> 
> What is the error? All three work for me with pdflatex. For \degree, I 
> need to load the gensymb package in the preamble and put it in ERT.

If one prefers not to put it in ERT, a character style can be made that inserts
\degree, but ignores the actual text typed in. I did this with the book title 
for my
"Mental Model Construction Best Practices" book, because until the book was
completed I kept changing the working title and didn't know what the title would
ultimately be. Everywhere the ultimate title should appear, I typed  and 
applied
the ChartitleInBody character style I'd defined. Every time I changed the book
title, I just changed the LaTeX for that char style, and every reference to the
title in the book changed. The same can be done with \degree, if this is 
prefereable
to ERT.

SteveT

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Re: Table of contents and links in pdf

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-09-01 at 02:38 +0300, Udicoudco wrote:
> Hello Dan,
> 
> To use hyperlinks in lyx you should assure that you use hyperref support.
> To do so go to Document->Settings->PDF Properties and check the box named
> "Use Hyperref Support", this will automatically create links in the table
> of contents.
> 
> For more information about customizing the appearance of the links you
> should read section 6.9 of  LyX's user guide, which can be found in
> Help->User's Guide.
> 
> Regards,
> Udi

Also see http://troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/urlwrap.htm .

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Re: advices for layout modification

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 2022-08-21 at 18:39 +0800, pierig wrote:
> Thanks Steve, I have a lot to read I have started by 
> http://troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/self_publish_lyx.htm just to get 
> along with your tutorials and the way you wrote them.
> 
> As I am not always focused, I have tried to add that in my layout file:
> 
> Style Dialogue
>    LatexType Environment
>    LatexName dialog_l
>    ParSep    0.5
> 
>    Font
>  Shape   Bold
>    EndFont
>    Preamble
>  \newenvironment{dialog_l}
>  {
>  \begin{list}{}
>  \item[---]
>  }
>  {
>  \par
>  \end{list}
>  }
>    EndPreamble
> End
> 
> But that doesn't work at all. It leads to what I was afraid of. The 
> first line of my dialog has the — sign, but not the others...
> 

Hi Pierig,

If you're saying you want every line of the first paragraph of a dialog between 
two
people to start with a hyphen or dash, I don't think that's possible in LaTeX 
or CSS
or pretty much anything.

So, are you really looking for the following?:

 - Steve said, "My skateboard went down a sewer, so I fished it out with a rope 
 - and coathanger. It took an hour, but it was better than climbing into the
 - sewer, because there was a dead, rotting aligator down there and about a
 - thousand rats feasting on it."

 "Pretty gross, replied Pierig. When my skateboard fell down the sewer, I just 
took 
 off the sewer cap and retrieved it. It only took me ten minutes. But there was
 no wildlife in the sewer."

 With a far off look in his eye, Steve said, "I remember the good old days when 
   
sewers didn't have rotting carcasses in them. Those were the days, when you 
could
get your skateboard just by climbing in!"

Is the preceding what you meant, because if it is, I can't think of one piece of
software that will do the preceding for you. If the preceding is *not* what you
meant, please give us a sample so we're all on the same page. By the way, my 
mail
client gives me very little control over indentation, so please ignore the
indentation and concentrate on where the dash/hyphens go.

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: advices for layout modification

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 2022-08-21 at 11:04 +0800, pierig wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have been using Lyx for years, and I am very happy with it. I am 
> writing novels, so my needs are pretty simple. (I would happily share 
> the novels here, but they are in French [Sci Fi])
> 
> In a novel, I have two main type of text. The main one, and dialogues. I 
> was using "Quote" for the dialogues, convenient enough. 

I think you're going to be quite pleased with making your own text types 
(LyX-speak
"environments") instead of hijacking environments meant for other purposes. 
You're
moving from two to three, but if your books are anything like mine, now that 
you can
make your own types, you'll want more of them. Just as a for instance, you have
dialog and thoughts, but what about narration? What about narration of stories 
and
back stories? When you can make your own environments, the world is your oyster.

> But now I need a 
> third one to show the thoughts of a character. Then I have decided to 
> try to adapt the layout of "Book (standard class)"

I congratulate you on choosing Book class. It works with everything, and it's 
very
adaptable. 7 of my 9 books use Book class, and I'd never again use Koma or 
Memoir.

> 
> I have looked at some advice on the net and manage to add a /dialogue/ 
> and /pensée/ (thoughts). For /dialogue/ it should be an itemized style, 
> (in French we add — for each change of speaker). Which means the code 
> for first line of a dialogue, the last line of dialogue and other lines 
> of dialogues are different
> 
> *1st line*
> 
>   \begin{itemize}
>   \item
> 
> 
> *other lines*
>       \item
> 
> 
> *last line*
>   \item
> 
> \end{itemize}

I'm confused about the preceding. Are you intending to insert ERT code "/item"
between every speaker? Doing so would make for slow authoring.

> 
> 
> Would you have any advice for where to look for this kind of 
> modification which doesn't involve a single line? For a single line, I 
> have done something very simple as a try, but I don't have any idea for 
> this multiple line problem
> 
> 
> Example of single line:
> 
> Style Pensée
>    LatexType Environment
>    LatexName pensee_l
>    ParSep    0.7
> 
>    Font
>  Shape   Italic
>    EndFont
>    Preamble
>  \newenvironment{pensee_l}
>  {
>  \itshape
>  }
>  {
>  \par
>  }
>    EndPreamble
> End
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.

I suggest you find the LaTeX source for the Book document class standard 
paragraph.
I don't remember where it is, but other people do. Modify as needed for each of 
your
desired environments.

Having the first and last whatever different from the middle ones might require
three different paragraph styles. I think LyX has a "next style" property you 
can
put in the LyX part of the environment definition, so that pretty much makes
everything except the last whatever automatic.

Here's a doc I wrote 13 years ago discussing making your own layout file:

http://troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/surefire_layout.htm


Also read http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200210/200210.htm . It's almost 20
years old, but it has ways to modify existing LaTeX environments without 
rewriting
them from scratch. Combined with CopyStyle, this just might simplify your task.

If you ever need to make your own list environments, see
http://troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/ownlists.htm

Actually, you might want to acquaint yourself with my whole LyX subsite,
http://troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/ , which links to quite a few LyX 
documents.

SteveT

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Re: lyx remove in Debian bullseye

[Steve Litt]

Yeah, I must have missed that. :-)

SteveT

On Sun, 2022-08-14 at 17:20 +0200, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
> 
> Steve
> 
> I read the subject line "Debian Bullseye" as meaning Linux.
> 
> el
> 
> On 2022-08-12 08:49 , Steve Litt wrote:
> [...]
> > Hi Wolfgang,
> > 
> > What El wrote is a shellscript.  Shellscripts can't be used on Windows
> > unless you have Linux For Windows or Windows Posix or whatever.
> [...]
> 

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Re: lyx remove in Debian bullseye

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-08-11 at 18:08 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 11.08.22 um 14:28 schrieb Dr Eberhard Lisse:
> > for i in lyx lyx240 lyx24n lyx24x
> > do
> >  rm -rf $(realpath $(which $i))
> > done
> > 
> > el
> > 
> > 
> > 
> Thanks, El,
> 
> but I do not know how to apply this script.
> How do I find the realpath of my installed lyx's?
> 
> I checked the help files of lyx, but couldn't find a description of how 
> to uninstall a lyx file and all the stuff going with it.
> 
> Wolfgang
> 

Hi Wolfgang,

What El wrote is a shellscript. Shellscripts can't be used on Windows unless you
have Linux For Windows or Windows Posix or whatever. "realpath" is an actual
shellscript command that resolves the true path/filename regardless of symlinks.

So basically, for every directory name listed on the "for" line, delete the real
filenamename associated with the first occurence of the list item that occurs 
first
on the executable path.

I'm personally not a fan of mass deletion inside a shellscript. If it were me, 
I'd
substitute the line currently saying rm -rf $(realpath $(which $i)) with:

echo $(realpath $(which $i))

That should give you a list of the true filenames to delete. I'd then check 
each one
before deleting it manually.

Also, if these are just executables and you installed them via a package from 
your
distribution, the executables will "come back" the next time you get an update 
for
the particular version. But I don't know your situation.

SteveT

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Re: check the logs

[Steve Litt]

> 
> On 28/07/2022 16:43, Steve Litt wrote:
> [...]
> > I had no idea you could install tlmgr as anything BUT root. Thanks for the
> > information.
> [...]

On Fri, 2022-07-29 at 13:13 +0200, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
> This is because you don't read (the manuals) :-)-O
> 
> el

Was that snark really necessary, Doctor Lisse? What's your PhD in, annoying 
people?

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Re: no document classes available

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2022-07-28 at 17:06 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> I just found that my lyx document does not have the Document class
> KOMA-script-book available
> 
> In fact, all the document classes are greyed out.
> 
> What should I do?


Hi Wolfgang,

This is not responsive to your question, but in the past I tried Memoir once and
Koma once for books. My findings were that they conflicted with things and 
weren't
worth the hassle just for a snazzier look and feel you can probably make 
yourself
anyway.

Nowadays I use a layout file, based on the Book document class, for every book. 
I
can get pretty much any look I want.

SteveT


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Re: check the logs

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 2022-07-27 at 18:28 +0200, Kornel Benko wrote:
> 
> 1.) You probably installed texlive as root, therefore the tlmgr is to be 
> called
> with root permissions.

I had no idea you could install tlmgr as anything BUT root. Thanks for the
information.

By the way, I run tlmgr as root.

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Re: check the logs

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 2022-07-27 at 17:55 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> 
> 
> Could not determine directory of tlmgr executable, maybe shared library 
> woes?

Hey, I've seen this before. I solved it by making a shellscript that ran the 
full
path of tlmgr.

#!/bin/sh
/opt/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/tlmgr $@


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Re: Bug tracker accounts

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 2022-07-20 at 14:49 +0200, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
> 
> On 15/07/2022 23:16, Steve Litt wrote:
> [...]
> > Or, how's this for a novel idea: How about discussing bugs on the
> > mailing list so that many eyes can effortlessly and immediately peruse
> > it and many voices can effortlessly narrow it down.  This will weed
> > out the "defective user" caused bugs, and will produce a pinpoint
> > accurate symptom description for the overworked developer.
> [...]

> While deliberation on email lists are very helpful that just will not
> work for software development, not even in closed shops, but most
> certainly not in Open Source projects and large ones such as this.
> 
> el

N O T   T R U E !

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Re: Bug tracker accounts

[Steve Litt]

Pavel Sanda said on Thu, 14 Jul 2022 01:07:33 +0200

>Dear LyXers,
>
>we recently suffer massive spam abuse in our bug tracker. For the
>moment we disabled automatized account creation and removed approx.
>30k fake user accounts.

[snip]

>If new account needs to be (re)created, please send the request to
>mailling list and we'll do it for you until new solution is found
>(captcha/migration to different platform).

Or, how's this for a novel idea: How about discussing bugs on the
mailing list so that many eyes can effortlessly and immediately peruse
it and many voices can effortlessly narrow it down. This will weed out
the "defective user" caused bugs, and will produce a pinpoint accurate
symptom description for the overworked developer.

SteveT

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Re: change xml info when exporting to LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

Lorenzo Bertini said on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 10:29:16 +0200

>Il 11/07/22 08:02, Steve Litt ha scritto:
>> Lorenzo Bertini said on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 04:00:56 +0200
>>> beware it will be put BEFORE any
>>> layout generated CSS, so anything hardcoded by the layout will
>>> override your custom rules; in this case you will have to edit the
>>> specific layout (a couple lines in the local layout, nothing
>>> daunting). This is documented in the "Customization" tutorial.  
>> 
>> Sounds like a misunderstanding of the "cascading" part of Cascading
>> Style Sheets (CSS).  
>
>Eh, I might, but this is what I observe. Cross checking is welcome.

Whoa, I'm sorry, my bad. What I meant was it's *the developer's"
misunderstanding of cascading, not the person reporting the behavior.
Sorry.

SteveT

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Re: How to achieve a simple element with LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

Lorenzo Bertini said on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 04:01:06 +0200



[About the idea of a compilation shellscript, Lorenzo said...]

>A solution of this kind could work well, but remove the thing that
>makes LyX so convenient: one click compile and show. 

I can't speak for Windows, but in Linux I use shellscripts to compile
all my books, and it works perfectly. I just run the shellscript and it
runs lualatex, and watermarks my PDF. It could just as easily run a
postprocessor. If I wanted to make it "one click", I'd just assign it
an icon on my desktop. 

I hear Windows has Powerscript now.

> We really need a
>robust LyXHTML output, and I don't think it's that far away.
>
>Right now the devs lack the manpower to tackle LyXHTML problems fully, 
>but I believe it's also a matter of demand. It's nice to see there are 
>people on lyx-users asking about it.

If manpower's so short and it's moving so slowly, perhaps we should just
fix things post-conversion. I have about 3 hours a week to devote to it,
and I'm pretty conversant with the xml.etree.ElementTree XML parser for
Python. It sounds like you know what should go in an HTML/ePub
document. If we get a couple more people with Python and document
expertise, we could fix this, as long as the LyX->HTML export remains
well-formed XML.

I bet maybe four of us could get this done in 3 months, no C++ required.

SteveT

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Re: change xml info when exporting to LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

Lorenzo Bertini said on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 04:00:56 +0200


>
>LyX has two (three?) ways of inserting custom stuff in the  of a 
>LyXHTML document, like for example CSS:
>
>1. if you write your own layout file, or use the convenient "local 
>layout" section in the document settings (so you don't have to bother 
>with files), LyX will put in the  all the relevant CSS.
>
>2. you can put "AddToHTMLPreamble" in a local layout to have custom 
>snippets added to the ; beware it will be put BEFORE any layout 
>generated CSS, so anything hardcoded by the layout will override your 
>custom rules; in this case you will have to edit the specific layout
>(a couple lines in the local layout, nothing daunting). This is
>documented in the "Customization" tutorial.

Sounds like a misunderstanding of the "cascading" part of Cascading
Style Sheets (CSS). 

>
>3(?). Some time ago I asked on lyx-devel for a "preamble tab" in 
>document settings, but for LyXHTML instead of LaTeX. This would put 
>everything inside it AFTER everything in the head so it would have the 
>last words on everything. The patch I made is in 
>https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/12061.

18 months ago. Well, you did your part.

>If you think something LyX puts in the preamble is outdated or 
>hardcoding too much, feel free to report it on the bug tracker 
>https://www.lyx.org/trac/wiki/BugTrackerHome. I'm reporting everything
>I find about LyXHTML but I always feel like I'm the only one using it

Ixnay on bugtrackers. I'm not going to learn 30 different bugtrackers,
when they consistently ask the wrong questions and aren't responded to
anyway. I'd rather code around this stuff myself.


SteveT

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Re: change xml info when exporting to LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

Lorenzo Bertini said on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 04:00:56 +0200


>If you think something LyX puts in the preamble is outdated or 
>hardcoding too much, feel free to report it on the bug tracker 
>https://www.lyx.org/trac/wiki/BugTrackerHome. I'm reporting everything
>I find about LyXHTML but I always feel like I'm the only one using it
>:).

I don't use bugtrackers. They're all different, requiring learning
each one, they ask the wrong questions, and in most cases bugtrackers
are where problems go to die.

On April 10 2022 I took an hour or so creating CSS that reproduced LyX'
standard of not indenting the first paragraph after a heading, and
posted it on the list, asking that somebody forward it to the
developer's list. I posted the complete CSS. I solved the problem and
all I got for my trouble was criticism. Screw it.

SteveT

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Re: How to achieve a simple element with LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

tush via lyx-users said on Sat, 09 Jul 2022 18:59:53 +

>I am trying to remove the html attributes assigned by LyXHTML to the
>Standard text inserted in the editor.
>
>LyX's default is to render Standard as
>
>This is text inserted in
>Standard
>
>together with
>
>p.standard {
>
>text-align: left;
>
>}
>
>appearing in the header.
>
>What I want is to get the simple html code
>
>This is text inserted in Standard
>In order to do that I am writing my Style in a layout file. What I
>have at the moment is the following:
>
>(I copied the first rows from stdclass.inc)
>
>Style Standard
>   Category  MainText
>   MarginStatic
>   LatexType Paragraph
>   LatexName dummy
>   ParIndent MM
>   ParSkip   0.4
>   Align Block
>   AlignPossible Block, Left, Right, Center
>   LabelType No_Label
>
>HTMLAttr " "
>
>End
>
>After a lot of trial and error, using the last line I eliminated the
>"div class="standard"" from the p element but still LyX assigns to it
>an id="some number" which I want to eliminate too.
>
>Any idea about it would be very welcome.

Yeahh, this is one of the reasons I don't use LyX for ePub. Last
time I looked, LyX exports used the deprecated and now with HTML5
eliminated  inside a div specially made to contain
one . What could *possibly* go wrong?

If I had to eliminate these redundant  things, I'd do it
with a postprocessor that corrects LyX' complexifications. It's not
easy, but you can use Python with the "import xml.etree.ElementTree as
ET" library. You'd analyze every DOM element, and for every 
whose only purpose is to encase one , get rid of the div after
reading metadata from that  and any  silliness, applying
the information to attributes of the  itself.

Seriously, LyX has failed to export common sense XMLized HTML for 14
years now, and I doubt they ever will. Best you can hope for is to
either switch to another authoring program, or repair LyX' mistakes
post-export. I think trying to repair this stuff from within your LyX
document is walking the highway to heartache.

Also, the good thing about the XML-parsing Python post-processor
approach is that, as time goes on, you can fix any problems newly
discovered and/or newly added by LyX: You're in control as long as they
continue to export well-formed XML HTML, which of course isn't a
for-sure thing.

SteveT

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Re: change xml info when exporting to LyXHTML

[Steve Litt]

tush via lyx-users said on Sat, 09 Jul 2022 15:54:06 +

>I want to override the default information LyX provides to my document
>when I export it to xml with Export->LyXHTML
>
>At the moment the info inserted to  tag is
>
>
>
>"http://www.w3.org/Math/DTD/mathml2/xhtml-math11-f.dtd";>
>
>http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I am writing my own layout file in which all my customization will be
>inserted.
>
>I want for example to change the first line simply to
>
>
>
>to add
>
>
>
>and to include my style sheet:
>
>
>
>What changes should I make to the my .layout file?
>
>I haven't found this information I am looking for in the Customization
>manual.

You're speaking my language tush!

It's been years since I looked at any kind of LyX HTML export, but if
it's what you're saying now, I might revisit the situation.

I think what you're asking for is best handled by a post-processor that
modifies the exported well-formed XML HTML5. Easy and fast with a
Python program that:

* Replaces existing doctype with 

* Gets rid of that silly  line.
  HTML specs say that the UTF-8 line belongs in the ". Like you said, the language line
  belongs in  or whatever language you want.

* Replaces the exporter's CSS stylesheet with your own. I don't think
  you want to mess with your LyX styles in your layout file because you
  WANT your PDF styles to look very different from your HTML styles.

This is all accomplished with a very easy to write Python program that
will postprocess the exported file in a half a second. If the exported
file is *really* well formed XML, you can check it with my
xmlchecker.py shown at
http://troubleshooters.com/web/validating.htm#xmlchecker .

HTH,

SteveT

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Re: Support for xfig graphics

[Steve Litt]

José Abílio Matos said on Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:29:48 +0100


>LyX is choosing python2 as the python version and since that python2
>does not work then the converters that use python fail.

That can't be right. Python 2 has been deprecated for years. I'm sure
LyX gives you the choice to use Python 3.

SteveT

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Re: Exercises at end of sections

[Steve Litt]

Joseph Hesse said on Mon, 30 May 2022 05:38:33 -0500

>Hello,
>I am writing a text book and want to have numbered exercises at the
>end of each section.  Please point me to the docs or packages that
>will let me do this.
>Thank you,
>Joe Hesse

Hi Joe,

If for some reason the answers you've received don't fit your needs,
please remember you can always put special text tokens in your LyX
file, then run a Python3 program of your own device to make necessary
insertions, changes and deletions to produce what you want.

For instance, in your text you could have a vvvQUESTIONSvvv and a
^^^QUESTIONS^^^ bookend your questions, and a >>>CORRECT<<< at the
beginning of each correct answer. The Python program would remove the
tokens after reading them, and put the answer section where it belongs,
with the correct answer(s) having a different character style.

I did this in the past, and it worked. Obviously an all-LyX solution is
better, but one nice thing about LyX is its native format is still
reasonably parsable so if nothing else works, writing such a program is
always a way to get what you need. Basically, it just adds one more
short step to the compile process. 

SteveT

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Re: Suggestions for custom layouts/templates creation

[Steve Litt]

Rich Shepard said on Thu, 19 May 2022 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT)

>I've read the layout page in the Wiki and learned that I can create my
>own layouts. What I'd like from those of you who want to help are
>suggestions how to approach the project(s).
>
>All environmental regulators have forms that need to be filled by
>permit (or other approval) applicants then submitted to the agency. I
>don't do Windows and want to learn how to make LyX templates for those
>that clients pay me to prepare for them.
>
>I use the KOMA-Script classes and assume the KOMA-Script Article class
>would be the most appropriate. But, not before creating any LyX
>templates I would appreciate suggestions how to go about making this
>first one.

First, if the forms will be OCR'ed, you'd better have the right font
and spacing. Otherwise, it's pretty easy...

Your layout file defines environments and commands. Commands are the
basis of character styles, and can be used for other things too.

So invent a stylename (environment or command) for each appearance you
see on whatever form you're imitating, and then do a little trial and
error with the styles until yours looks exactly like the sample.

I haven't discussed the nuts and bolts of custom layout grammar. If you
need that, give me back a shout.

SteveT

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Re: Top toolbar missing after switching from debian 10 to debian 11 (bullseye)

[Steve Litt]

John White said on Thu, 12 May 2022 09:56:08 -0700

>The main lyx tool bar is gone, the one with 
>
>File, Edit, View, Insert, Navigate, Document, Tools, Help.
>
>Any thoughts on how I might get it back?

I'd rather make a stupid suggestion than make a stupid mistake. Just
for fun, press the F11 key to toggle "full screen". If that doesn't
bring back the menu, you'll have wasted 10 seconds.

SteveT

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Re: License Agreement Entitlement Query

[Steve Litt]

I wouldn't suggest replying to these guys. They're trying to put the LyX
project in the role of their lawyer, without payment. Personally, I
think the GPL2 is clear enough for me to stake my business on, but if
they have questions, they can hire a lawyer.

Or, if they don't like the project not acting as their lawyer, they can
start using a proprietary substitute, and REALLY start paying lawyers.

SteveT


Service Centre Licensing said on Mon, 2 May 2022 04:45:07 +

>Dear LyX Team,
>
>
>
>We are writing to you in relation to the licensing for LyX.
>
>The University of Melbourne is currently working to modernize its
>approach to delivering computer labs across the campus and will be
>transitioning from physical computer lab delivery into a virtual
>platform based on Citrix technology.
>
>The new delivery model will shift from delivering software through a
>single physical Windows 10 endpoint to a shared virtual model using
>servers running Windows Server 2019, allowing multiple users to
>connect to one server using user sessions.
>
>As part of this transition, we wish to clarify with you the licensing
>terms and conditions for LyX to ensure we will remain complaint with
>our commitments.
>
>Can you please confirm that your license terms and conditions will
>allow the University to deliver LyX using this new model? Otherwise,
>if this does not comply with your current terms, can you please advise
>what changes are required to allow us to deliver LyX
>
>Regards,
>Dylan D’Cruz | Service Centre Consultant
>Client Services | Business Services
>Level 1, Building 266, 11 Barry St
>The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia
>T: +61 3 8344 0888  E:
>dylan.dc...@unimelb.edu.au
>unimelb.edu.au |
>facebook.com/unimelb |
>twitter.com/unimelb
>
>
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Re: Making first paragraphs not indented in exported HTML

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Dr Eberhard W Lisse via lyx-users said on Tue, 12 Apr 2022 14:22:21
+0200

>Because I am right and you are unnecessarily annoying?

A simple "Thank you" would have sufficed.

SteveT

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Re: Making first paragraphs not indented in exported HTML

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Dr Eberhard Lisse via lyx-users said on Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:22:54 +0200

>If you think other people have the time you don't maybe you
>also not waste their time by posting this.

Now how did I know that *you'd* be the guy to say this.

SteveT

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Re: Making first paragraphs not indented in exported HTML

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Daniel via lyx-users said on Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:13:43 +0200

>On 2022-04-11 03:44, Steve Litt via lyx-users wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> In the past, some exporters have implemented the custom of not
>> indenting the first of several successive paragraphs by using a
>> different class of paragraph for the first of a series of paragraphs.
>> This way of doing things makes more work for the person writing the
>> export, and more work for the person converting the export to
>> acceptable ePub, because those special classes will need to be backed
>> out or otherwise specially handled.
>> 
>> Not indenting the first of a series of paragraphs is easily
>> accomplished by the following two lines of CSS:
>> 
>> p::first-letter{margin-left: 3em;}
>> :not(p) + p::first-letter{margin-left:0.0001em;}
>> 
>> Let CSS decide which is the first of several consecutive paragraphs,
>> and let CSS define what to do with that paragraph. Make it easy on
>> everybody.
>> 
>> I took an hour to figure this out. Could somebody please take 3
>> minutes to forward it to the developer's list and also the person
>> who is writing the HTML export?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> SteveT
>> 
>> Steve Litt
>> March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm  
>
>I'd suggest that you file a bug/enhancement report at 
>https://www.lyx.org/trac/wiki/BugTrackerHome (including the LyX
>version you are using and exact steps to reproduce the problem).

Like I said, I spent an hour getting that code just right. I did the
hard part, I did my part. In the time you took to respond to me, you
could have forwarded my email. 

I don't have time to learn the quirks of every project's bugtracker,
type in information that's not relevant, and hope somebody looks at it.
At a lot of projects, the bugtracker is where requests go to die
(Bluefish, you listening?).

If I could change one thing about FOSS it would be to get rid of
bugtrackers and work directly with the user. That's what we did at
VimOutliner, and bugs got solved and requests got implemented very
quickly.

SteveT

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Making first paragraphs not indented in exported HTML

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Hi all,

In the past, some exporters have implemented the custom of not
indenting the first of several successive paragraphs by using a
different class of paragraph for the first of a series of paragraphs.
This way of doing things makes more work for the person writing the
export, and more work for the person converting the export to
acceptable ePub, because those special classes will need to be backed
out or otherwise specially handled.

Not indenting the first of a series of paragraphs is easily
accomplished by the following two lines of CSS:

p::first-letter{margin-left: 3em;}
:not(p) + p::first-letter{margin-left:0.0001em;} 

Let CSS decide which is the first of several consecutive paragraphs,
and let CSS define what to do with that paragraph. Make it easy on
everybody.

I took an hour to figure this out. Could somebody please take 3 minutes
to forward it to the developer's list and also the person who is
writing the HTML export?

Thanks, 

SteveT

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Re: [Important] New behavior for spam handling on this list

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Jean-Marc Lasgouttes via lyx-users said on Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:23:13
+0200


>> And what's the supposed upside? So non-subscribers can post. Look at
>> any netiquette guide and they'll roundly catcall the clowns who begin
>> or end their message with "please CC me because I'm not on the
>> list."  
>
>The upside is to try to be more welcoming to new users. It is not like 
>we have too many users, do we? As in my answer above, I agree that we 
>shall reconsider if things become unpleasant.

I'm on tons and tons of FOSS mailing lists. From my perspective, the
LyX list is one of the most welcoming to users new and old, and has one
of the most constructive attitudes of all mailing lists. In my
opinion, this list is so welcoming that there's little remaining low
hanging fruit remaining to make the list even more welcoming, so I
still think enabling non-subscribers to post is unnecessary and has
downsides.


If we want to grow LyX usage and membership, and I'm not necessarily
saying we should, I think the way to do it is to grow the world's
impression of LyX beyond its perceived niche of scholarly thesis
production. As long as we speak only of PDF output, LyX is
spectacularly suitable for any consistent document beyond five a4 or
letter pages. When used with its defaults, *IT'S JUST EASY*. With
creative custom layouts, it can do almost anything. One of my fiction
books, which jumps all around in time, has the current date of the plot
printed in the header. Don't try this with Libreoffice.

Somebody could make a list of all types of possible long documents.
Legal documents. Books, articles. Specifications. Make a flowchart of
which document class to start out with.

Like every other free software project, LyX is underdocumented. The
lowest hanging fruit you have is to make a single index for all the
documents available under LyX' help menu. Every time I go there to look
something up, I spend 25 minutes going from document to document
looking for the subject. I'm sure I'm not alone. Armed with this index,
the project could credibly claim to have some of the FOSS world's best
documentation. Make the documentation good enough, and newbies will
quickly become evangelists. But wait: There's more...

I never learned to use LyX modules, and have always simply made complex
and detailed local layout files. Others should not follow in my
footsteps, because, from what I've heard, modules are a much easier way
to add specific document capabilities than layout files. There should
be a help=>modules, split into descriptions of how to use every
project-curated module, and how to make your own.

I can see value in a publicity campaign, beamed to the general populace
rather than current LyX users, explaining what fingerpainting is, why
it's bad, why styles-based authoring is good, what styles-based
authoring looks like in general, and how easy it is to do in LyX.

In this section I've merely scratched the surface of ways LyX could
become an everyday tool for millions of people. Just doing a few of
these things would go beyond making LyX welcoming --- they'd make LyX
extremely attractive for the general population.


SteveT

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Re: [Important] New behavior for spam handling on this list

[Steve Litt via lyx-users]

Jean-Marc Lasgouttes via lyx-users said on Wed, 6 Apr 2022 16:01:16
+0200

>Dear all,
>
>Until now, the handling of the list was like: messages from
>subscribers go through, other messages get discarded.
>
>There is actually a way to filter e-mails marked as spam, and I have 
>already changed all our other lists to take advantage of this
>information.
>
>Today it is lyx-users' turn. The new behavior is:
>* spams are automatically discarded; please notify the list if a
>message of yours just disappears. It seems to work correctly on the
>other lists that we have;
>* members posts not qualified as spam go through as usual;
>* remaining non-member posts are held for moderation.
>
>The big advantage is that now non-subscribers will be able to post 
>messages (with a low amount of manual moderation from my side).
>
>Comments welcome.

I'd suggest you put it back the way it was. I'm on 30+ FOSS mailing
lists, and can't police everything to see that it goes through. If some
AI algorithm somewhere decides I'm spam because of my email provider
or whatever, I'm just writing into the wind, wasting a lot of time.

And what's the supposed upside? So non-subscribers can post. Look at
any netiquette guide and they'll roundly catcall the clowns who begin
or end their message with "please CC me because I'm not on the list."

Let's not inconvenience valuable list members to accommodate those so
lazy they can't take 5 minutes to join the mailing list.

SteveT

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