Re: We need documentation on using layouts in documents
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, Steve Litt wrote:
In the 7 years I've used LyX, every book had its own layout, and every
single time, I spent hours tweaking around trying to get my layout
visible to the document so that I could use my specialized document
class.
Hi Steve,
Just to be clear on the basic issues here so that we don't misuse the
terminology. I also hope this will enlighten other readers on this list.
When you refer to the layout of the book, you mean the layout of printed
copy. At the end of the day, when LaTeX is building the document, this is
controlled by choosing the LaTeX document class (*.cls), using different
LaTeX style files (*.sty) and generally tweaking the document's preamble.
When I want to the control the appearance of the printed copy, I usually
proceed as follows:
* Select an already existing LyX document layout (*.layout)
* Modify the document settings through dialogs
* Tweak the document's LaTeX preamble by including LaTeX style files
(*.sty) and adding some LaTeX statements.
* Insert some LaTeX code directly into the LyX document through ERT
(Evil Red Text)
However, if I've understood you correctly, you do it slightly differently.
Instead of modifying the document to produce the desired appearance, you
create a new LyX layout file (*.layout) which contains as much as possible
of the LaTeX code. In other words, you make the .layout file select the
correct LaTeX document class through the statement
# \DeclareLaTeXClass...
and you use the .layout-file to insert LaTeX code into the document's
preamble. And of course to include LaTeX style files (*.sty).
Is this the core of it?
Your approach certainly makes sense if you intend to produce several
documents with the same printed layout, but I'm less convinced if it is
for a single book? What is it that you gain by creating a specific
LyX layout in this case?
After I've now hopefully gotten the background right, here's how you
describe what you do.
What I typically do is:
1) Make the layout file
2) ln -s /bookdir/mybook.layout /home/slitt/.lyx/layouts/mybook.layout
3) Doublecheck the line that says # \DeclareLaTeXClass[book]{mybook}, make
sure it matches the filenames.
4) lyx
5) tools-reconfigure
6) exit lyx
7) lyx mybook.lyx
It never shows document class mybook, until I turkey around for hours to
get it to work.
I don't understand this... are you saying you often have problem making
LyX find your .layout file?
We need documentation on exactly what to do, and how to troubleshoot
layouts/document classes.
I agree, but you're probably the expert on creating customized LyX layouts
;-) So what do you suggest? What kind of documentation is needed?
cheers
/Christian
--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: We need documentation on using layouts in documents
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, Steve Litt wrote:
In the 7 years I've used LyX, every book had its own layout, and every
single time, I spent hours tweaking around trying to get my layout
visible to the document so that I could use my specialized document
class.
Hi Steve,
Just to be clear on the basic issues here so that we don't misuse the
terminology. I also hope this will enlighten other readers on this list.
When you refer to the layout of the book, you mean the layout of printed
copy. At the end of the day, when LaTeX is building the document, this is
controlled by choosing the LaTeX document class (*.cls), using different
LaTeX style files (*.sty) and generally tweaking the document's preamble.
When I want to the control the appearance of the printed copy, I usually
proceed as follows:
* Select an already existing LyX document layout (*.layout)
* Modify the document settings through dialogs
* Tweak the document's LaTeX preamble by including LaTeX style files
(*.sty) and adding some LaTeX statements.
* Insert some LaTeX code directly into the LyX document through ERT
(Evil Red Text)
However, if I've understood you correctly, you do it slightly differently.
Instead of modifying the document to produce the desired appearance, you
create a new LyX layout file (*.layout) which contains as much as possible
of the LaTeX code. In other words, you make the .layout file select the
correct LaTeX document class through the statement
# \DeclareLaTeXClass...
and you use the .layout-file to insert LaTeX code into the document's
preamble. And of course to include LaTeX style files (*.sty).
Is this the core of it?
Your approach certainly makes sense if you intend to produce several
documents with the same printed layout, but I'm less convinced if it is
for a single book? What is it that you gain by creating a specific
LyX layout in this case?
After I've now hopefully gotten the background right, here's how you
describe what you do.
What I typically do is:
1) Make the layout file
2) ln -s /bookdir/mybook.layout /home/slitt/.lyx/layouts/mybook.layout
3) Doublecheck the line that says # \DeclareLaTeXClass[book]{mybook}, make
sure it matches the filenames.
4) lyx
5) tools-reconfigure
6) exit lyx
7) lyx mybook.lyx
It never shows document class mybook, until I turkey around for hours to
get it to work.
I don't understand this... are you saying you often have problem making
LyX find your .layout file?
We need documentation on exactly what to do, and how to troubleshoot
layouts/document classes.
I agree, but you're probably the expert on creating customized LyX layouts
;-) So what do you suggest? What kind of documentation is needed?
cheers
/Christian
--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: We need documentation on using layouts in documents
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, Steve Litt wrote:
In the 7 years I've used LyX, every book had its own layout, and every
single time, I spent hours tweaking around trying to get my layout
visible to the document so that I could use my specialized document
class.
Hi Steve,
Just to be clear on the basic issues here so that we don't misuse the
terminology. I also hope this will enlighten other readers on this list.
When you refer to the layout of the book, you mean the layout of printed
copy. At the end of the day, when LaTeX is building the document, this is
controlled by choosing the LaTeX document class (*.cls), using different
LaTeX style files (*.sty) and generally tweaking the document's preamble.
When I want to the control the appearance of the printed copy, I usually
proceed as follows:
* Select an already existing LyX document layout (*.layout)
* Modify the document settings through dialogs
* Tweak the document's LaTeX preamble by including LaTeX style files
(*.sty) and adding some LaTeX statements.
* Insert some LaTeX code directly into the LyX document through ERT
(Evil Red Text)
However, if I've understood you correctly, you do it slightly differently.
Instead of modifying the document to produce the desired appearance, you
create a new LyX layout file (*.layout) which contains as much as possible
of the LaTeX code. In other words, you make the .layout file select the
correct LaTeX document class through the statement
# \DeclareLaTeXClass...
and you use the .layout-file to insert LaTeX code into the document's
preamble. And of course to include LaTeX style files (*.sty).
Is this the core of it?
Your approach certainly makes sense if you intend to produce several
documents with the same printed layout, but I'm less convinced if it is
for a single book? What is it that you gain by creating a specific
LyX layout in this case?
After I've now hopefully gotten the background right, here's how you
describe what you do.
What I typically do is:
1) Make the layout file
2) ln -s /bookdir/mybook.layout /home/slitt/.lyx/layouts/mybook.layout
3) Doublecheck the line that says # \DeclareLaTeXClass[book]{mybook}, make
sure it matches the filenames.
4) lyx
5) tools->reconfigure
6) exit lyx
7) lyx mybook.lyx
It never shows document class mybook, until I turkey around for hours to
get it to work.
I don't understand this... are you saying you often have problem making
LyX find your .layout file?
We need documentation on exactly what to do, and how to troubleshoot
layouts/document classes.
I agree, but you're probably the expert on creating customized LyX layouts
;-) So what do you suggest? What kind of documentation is needed?
cheers
/Christian
--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx-users mail server error
On Thu, 29 May 2008, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: I am trying to attach a example lyx file to ask a question. But my messages keep getting rejected with the error below. The example file is only 98K. Thanks. Please consider making a way smaller example. I agree. Please make the example much smaller. In fact, make it so small that it only contains precisely what you need to illustrate your problem. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx-users mail server error
On Thu, 29 May 2008, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: I am trying to attach a example lyx file to ask a question. But my messages keep getting rejected with the error below. The example file is only 98K. Thanks. Please consider making a way smaller example. I agree. Please make the example much smaller. In fact, make it so small that it only contains precisely what you need to illustrate your problem. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx-users mail server error
On Thu, 29 May 2008, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: I am trying to attach a example lyx file to ask a question. But my messages keep getting rejected with the error below. The example file is only 98K. Thanks. Please consider making a way smaller example. I agree. Please make the example much smaller. In fact, make it so small that it only contains precisely what you need to illustrate your problem. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Using a network printer
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Helge Hafting wrote: Some people have lpr instead of lp, consider replacing lp then. Cups (in debian: the package cupsys-client) provides a lp binary that lyx can use. This will print to whatever printer cups considers default. In case it helps someone else, it turns out that in my Ubuntu installation, directing printing to 'lpr' or 'lp' helped, as that routed the output to the default printing. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
LyX 1.5.5 under Ubuntu does not find LaTeX packages
Hi, I've downloaded LyX 1.5.5 and built it in a local directory. Then I run lyx-1.5.5/src/lyx and try to do a reconfigure. The result is a message about: The system reconfiguration has failed. Default textclass is used but LyX may not be able to work properly. Please reconfigure again if needed. This means LyX is unable to find the class files and style files it was looking for. My question is how I should set the proper paths to the latex installation when I'm using Ubuntu. (I'm not able to getit to work using TEXINPUTS, but I'm very rusty at this). Best regards, /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Packages required under Linux
On Thu, 15 May 2008, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Some recent threads raised this question. It's indeed one thing that did puzzle me under Linux (Ubuntu), especially when compared to a Windows install. Thanks, this helped me - now Lyx no longer complains after a recompile, and many of the classes are available. I've written some notes on this page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/LyXOnUbuntu own list of useful packages. I could post it here if someone asks, or maybe it could go to the Wiki page Peleg Michaeli has started. Please add it to the wiki page, I'd certainly appreciate it! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Using a network printer
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Helge Hafting wrote: Some people have lpr instead of lp, consider replacing lp then. Cups (in debian: the package cupsys-client) provides a lp binary that lyx can use. This will print to whatever printer cups considers default. In case it helps someone else, it turns out that in my Ubuntu installation, directing printing to 'lpr' or 'lp' helped, as that routed the output to the default printing. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
LyX 1.5.5 under Ubuntu does not find LaTeX packages
Hi, I've downloaded LyX 1.5.5 and built it in a local directory. Then I run lyx-1.5.5/src/lyx and try to do a reconfigure. The result is a message about: The system reconfiguration has failed. Default textclass is used but LyX may not be able to work properly. Please reconfigure again if needed. This means LyX is unable to find the class files and style files it was looking for. My question is how I should set the proper paths to the latex installation when I'm using Ubuntu. (I'm not able to getit to work using TEXINPUTS, but I'm very rusty at this). Best regards, /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Packages required under Linux
On Thu, 15 May 2008, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Some recent threads raised this question. It's indeed one thing that did puzzle me under Linux (Ubuntu), especially when compared to a Windows install. Thanks, this helped me - now Lyx no longer complains after a recompile, and many of the classes are available. I've written some notes on this page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/LyXOnUbuntu own list of useful packages. I could post it here if someone asks, or maybe it could go to the Wiki page Peleg Michaeli has started. Please add it to the wiki page, I'd certainly appreciate it! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Using a network printer
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Helge Hafting wrote: Some people have "lpr" instead of "lp", consider replacing "lp" then. Cups (in debian: the package cupsys-client) provides a "lp" binary that lyx can use. This will print to whatever printer cups considers default. In case it helps someone else, it turns out that in my Ubuntu installation, directing printing to 'lpr' or 'lp' helped, as that routed the output to the default printing. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
LyX 1.5.5 under Ubuntu does not find LaTeX packages
Hi, I've downloaded LyX 1.5.5 and built it in a local directory. Then I run lyx-1.5.5/src/lyx and try to do a reconfigure. The result is a message about: The system reconfiguration has failed. Default textclass is used but LyX may not be able to work properly. Please reconfigure again if needed. This means LyX is unable to find the class files and style files it was looking for. My question is how I should set the proper paths to the latex installation when I'm using Ubuntu. (I'm not able to getit to work using TEXINPUTS, but I'm very rusty at this). Best regards, /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Packages required under Linux
On Thu, 15 May 2008, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Some recent threads raised this question. It's indeed one thing that did puzzle me under Linux (Ubuntu), especially when compared to a Windows install. Thanks, this helped me - now Lyx no longer complains after a recompile, and many of the classes are available. I've written some notes on this page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/LyXOnUbuntu own list of useful packages. I could post it here if someone asks, or maybe it could go to the Wiki page Peleg Michaeli has started. Please add it to the wiki page, I'd certainly appreciate it! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx test site not found
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Siegfried MEUNIER-GUTTIN-CLUZEL schrieb: I receive a lot of messages with [LyX] recent notify posts as subject, but when I try to go to the site ( e.g. http://www.lyx.org/test/Web.AboutLyX ), I have an error : The requested URL /test/Web.AboutLyX was not found on this server. You find the websites here: http://www.lyx.org/Web.AboutLyX I don't know why there is the /test/ in the notify posts. Hi, Thanks for letting us know, I've fixed this now (I hope) /C regards Uwe -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx test site not found
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Siegfried MEUNIER-GUTTIN-CLUZEL schrieb: I receive a lot of messages with [LyX] recent notify posts as subject, but when I try to go to the site ( e.g. http://www.lyx.org/test/Web.AboutLyX ), I have an error : The requested URL /test/Web.AboutLyX was not found on this server. You find the websites here: http://www.lyx.org/Web.AboutLyX I don't know why there is the /test/ in the notify posts. Hi, Thanks for letting us know, I've fixed this now (I hope) /C regards Uwe -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Lyx test site not found
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Siegfried MEUNIER-GUTTIN-CLUZEL schrieb: I receive a lot of messages with "[LyX] recent notify posts" as subject, but when I try to go to the site ( e.g. http://www.lyx.org/test/Web.AboutLyX ), I have an error : "The requested URL /test/Web.AboutLyX was not found on this server." You find the websites here: http://www.lyx.org/Web.AboutLyX I don't know why there is the "/test/" in the notify posts. Hi, Thanks for letting us know, I've fixed this now (I hope) /C regards Uwe -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: romanizing references
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Ernesto Posse schrieb: Hi. Is there a way to make references into roman numerals? Oh, I'm so disappointed... I read it as _romanticizing_ references.. - To view or interpret romantically; make romantic. - To think in a romantic way. ;-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: romanizing references
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Ernesto Posse schrieb: Hi. Is there a way to make references into roman numerals? Oh, I'm so disappointed... I read it as _romanticizing_ references.. - To view or interpret romantically; make romantic. - To think in a romantic way. ;-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: romanizing references
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Ernesto Posse schrieb: Hi. Is there a way to make references into roman numerals? Oh, I'm so disappointed... I read it as _romanticizing_ references.. - To view or interpret romantically; make romantic. - To think in a romantic way. ;-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
The wiki now blocks 'href' as a word
Hi, To prevent spam, I configured the wiki to block 'href' through the regular expression \bhref\b which should match 'href' as a separate word. I hope this will stop stupid spam bots that try to instert HTML links. Words that _contain_ 'href' should still be allowed. Cheers, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
The wiki now blocks 'href' as a word
Hi, To prevent spam, I configured the wiki to block 'href' through the regular expression \bhref\b which should match 'href' as a separate word. I hope this will stop stupid spam bots that try to instert HTML links. Words that _contain_ 'href' should still be allowed. Cheers, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
The wiki now blocks 'href' as a word
Hi, To prevent spam, I configured the wiki to block 'href' through the regular expression \bhref\b which should match 'href' as a separate word. I hope this will stop stupid spam bots that try to instert HTML links. Words that _contain_ 'href' should still be allowed. Cheers, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: multiplatform vector drawing program to use
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Alan G Isaac wrote: On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard apparently wrote: I strongly recommend PSTricks. Don't forget about tikz, which is more than enough for most users but it more portable. (E.g., it can be used with pdftex.) I created a wiki page http://wiki.lyx.org/Tips/AdditionalSoftware where you can list the software. For now I've basically only added a link to this thread. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: multiplatform vector drawing program to use
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Alan G Isaac wrote: On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard apparently wrote: I strongly recommend PSTricks. Don't forget about tikz, which is more than enough for most users but it more portable. (E.g., it can be used with pdftex.) I created a wiki page http://wiki.lyx.org/Tips/AdditionalSoftware where you can list the software. For now I've basically only added a link to this thread. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: multiplatform vector drawing program to use
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Alan G Isaac wrote: On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard apparently wrote: > I strongly recommend PSTricks. Don't forget about tikz, which is more than enough for most users but it more portable. (E.g., it can be used with pdftex.) I created a wiki page http://wiki.lyx.org/Tips/AdditionalSoftware where you can list the software. For now I've basically only added a link to this thread. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
www.lyx.org/test temporarily down (renamed..)
Hi, I've renamed all wiki pages from e.g. Main.HomePage - Web.HomePage this means that the URI http:/www.lyx.org/test/HomePage no longer works, as it is automatically mapped to http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage ^^ You can however access the lyx web pages through http://www.lyx.org/test/wiki/index.php/Web/HomePage Jean-Marc, could you modify /etc/httpd/virtual.d/www.lyx.org.conf so that the line AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Main/$1 instead reads AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Web/$1 Regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
www.lyx.org/test temporarily down (renamed..)
Hi, I've renamed all wiki pages from e.g. Main.HomePage - Web.HomePage this means that the URI http:/www.lyx.org/test/HomePage no longer works, as it is automatically mapped to http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage ^^ You can however access the lyx web pages through http://www.lyx.org/test/wiki/index.php/Web/HomePage Jean-Marc, could you modify /etc/httpd/virtual.d/www.lyx.org.conf so that the line AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Main/$1 instead reads AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Web/$1 Regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
www.lyx.org/test temporarily down (renamed..)
Hi, I've renamed all wiki pages from e.g. Main.HomePage -> Web.HomePage this means that the URI http:/www.lyx.org/test/HomePage no longer works, as it is automatically mapped to http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage ^""^ You can however access the lyx web pages through http://www.lyx.org/test/wiki/index.php/Web/HomePage Jean-Marc, could you modify /etc/httpd/virtual.d/www.lyx.org.conf so that the line AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Main/$1 instead reads AliasMatch ^/test/([?A-Z].*) /home/lyx/www/www-user/test/index.php/Web/$1 Regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One official skin is enough. I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and readability. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is good enough. As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei? The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd like to try to make a different design. I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site. -- appearance of wiki v.s. web site Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat consistent. In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have the following elements: * Logotype * top area (with just the page name and a login link) * sidebar * main area The current wiki OTOH in addition has: * Search field * A more complicated sidebar * Drop down list to go to a page * A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the page) * A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate area) * A footer with various links in it Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well: * three column layout * a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin * 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here: http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while. (I simply don't have time for it). Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, G. Milde wrote: Rather that there are bosses believing that if you have fun at work you are not seriously working. I.e. once they see the platypus on your desktop However, if you're actually using LyX to prepare documents there is no platypus visible. It's not on the splash screen, not on the frame, ... only on the Web site. IMNSHO, this is a non-issue. I doubt the desktop icon is a problem, but the appearance of the web site might be (depending if your boss would manage to find the site on his own:-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates, 3d pages graphic, logo ideas
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: The 'pages' are nice. However, I don't like the logo. Too far away from the current one... The 'pages' do look nice, but how are they to be used? In a splash screen? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One official skin is enough. I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and readability. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is good enough. As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei? The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd like to try to make a different design. I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site. -- appearance of wiki v.s. web site Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat consistent. In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have the following elements: * Logotype * top area (with just the page name and a login link) * sidebar * main area The current wiki OTOH in addition has: * Search field * A more complicated sidebar * Drop down list to go to a page * A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the page) * A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate area) * A footer with various links in it Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well: * three column layout * a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin * 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here: http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while. (I simply don't have time for it). Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, G. Milde wrote: Rather that there are bosses believing that if you have fun at work you are not seriously working. I.e. once they see the platypus on your desktop However, if you're actually using LyX to prepare documents there is no platypus visible. It's not on the splash screen, not on the frame, ... only on the Web site. IMNSHO, this is a non-issue. I doubt the desktop icon is a problem, but the appearance of the web site might be (depending if your boss would manage to find the site on his own:-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates, 3d pages graphic, logo ideas
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: The 'pages' are nice. However, I don't like the logo. Too far away from the current one... The 'pages' do look nice, but how are they to be used? In a splash screen? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One official skin is enough. I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and readability. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a "design illiterate", so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is "good enough". As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei? The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd like to try to make a different design. I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site. -- appearance of wiki v.s. web site Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat consistent. In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have the following elements: * Logotype * top area (with just the page name and a login link) * sidebar * main area The current wiki OTOH in addition has: * Search field * A more complicated sidebar * Drop down list to go to a page * A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the page) * A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate area) * A footer with various links in it Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well: * three column layout * a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin * 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here: http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while. (I simply don't have time for it). Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, G. Milde wrote: Rather that there are bosses believing that if you have fun at work you are not seriously working. I.e. once they see the platypus on your desktop However, if you're actually using LyX to prepare documents there is no platypus visible. It's not on the splash screen, not on the frame, ... only on the Web site. IMNSHO, this is a non-issue. I doubt the desktop icon is a problem, but the appearance of the web site might be (depending if your boss would manage to find the site on his own:-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates, 3d pages graphic, logo ideas
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: The 'pages' are nice. However, I don't like the logo. Too far away from the current one... The 'pages' do look nice, but how are they to be used? In a splash screen? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, G. Milde wrote: About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish For me, this are co-notations of * funny snip * home made The problem I see with these associations is getting an acceptance at for work these applications. If the boss thinks it's not serious, he might object to the application being used for company documents... Maybe we need a separate logotype for bosses... :-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote: Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current template looks really good. Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's suggestions as 'skins' on the site! About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion on the devel list). Best regards, /Christian PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Removal from mailing list
@kellyservices.co.uk from this mailing list. Your email exchanges about Lyx, while informative, are clogging up our inboxes. Greetings Nicholas, CONFIDENTIAL The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential. It is intended only for the named addressee(s). If you are not the named addressee(s) please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose, copy or distribute the contents to any other person other than the intended addressee(s) As noted by Andre', I assume I must also notify you that I'm not a named addressee! (It was fun spelling addressee... I don't I've done that before). However, as I see no legal restriction in answering your question, oh... wait... if I answer I would be disclosing contents.. However, you can easily find the solution by googling... my first hits were relevant. In addition, I believe the answer you seek is available with each e-mail you recieve... oops, that mean _this_ email contains the answer. My apologies for not abiding your notice of confidentiality! regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work. I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper test, i.e. in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with the needed resources etc etc). For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current skin/design. Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending ?skin=... to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is good enough. Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can compare them. For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in the wiki. I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'. However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to the final design of the official site. Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different. Just as a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or functions compared to a regular web site. As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, G. Milde wrote: About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish For me, this are co-notations of * funny snip * home made The problem I see with these associations is getting an acceptance at for work these applications. If the boss thinks it's not serious, he might object to the application being used for company documents... Maybe we need a separate logotype for bosses... :-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote: Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current template looks really good. Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's suggestions as 'skins' on the site! About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion on the devel list). Best regards, /Christian PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Removal from mailing list
@kellyservices.co.uk from this mailing list. Your email exchanges about Lyx, while informative, are clogging up our inboxes. Greetings Nicholas, CONFIDENTIAL The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential. It is intended only for the named addressee(s). If you are not the named addressee(s) please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose, copy or distribute the contents to any other person other than the intended addressee(s) As noted by Andre', I assume I must also notify you that I'm not a named addressee! (It was fun spelling addressee... I don't I've done that before). However, as I see no legal restriction in answering your question, oh... wait... if I answer I would be disclosing contents.. However, you can easily find the solution by googling... my first hits were relevant. In addition, I believe the answer you seek is available with each e-mail you recieve... oops, that mean _this_ email contains the answer. My apologies for not abiding your notice of confidentiality! regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work. I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper test, i.e. in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with the needed resources etc etc). For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current skin/design. Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending ?skin=... to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is good enough. Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can compare them. For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in the wiki. I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'. However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to the final design of the official site. Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different. Just as a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or functions compared to a regular web site. As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, G. Milde wrote: About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish For me, this are co-notations of * funny * home made The problem I see with these associations is getting an acceptance at for work these applications. If the boss thinks it's not serious, he might object to the application being used for company documents... Maybe we need a separate logotype for bosses... :-) /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote: Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current template looks really good. Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's suggestions as 'skins' on the site! About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion on the devel list). Best regards, /Christian PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Removal from mailing list
@kellyservices.co.uk from this mailing list. Your email exchanges about Lyx, while informative, are clogging up our inboxes. Greetings Nicholas, CONFIDENTIAL The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential. It is intended only for the named addressee(s). If you are not the named addressee(s) please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose, copy or distribute the contents to any other person other than the intended addressee(s) As noted by Andre', I assume I must also notify you that I'm not a named addressee! (It was fun spelling addressee... I don't I've done that before). However, as I see no legal restriction in answering your question, oh... wait... if I answer I would be disclosing contents.. However, you can easily find the solution by googling... my first hits were relevant. In addition, I believe the answer you seek is available with each e-mail you recieve... oops, that mean _this_ email contains the answer. My apologies for not abiding your notice of confidentiality! regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Templates for the new website
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you can contact me off-list so we can work out details. These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work. I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper test, i.e. in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with the needed resources etc etc). For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current skin/design. Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending ?skin=... to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only. However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a "design illiterate", so I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is "good enough". Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can compare them. For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in the wiki. I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'. However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to the final design of the official site. Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different. Just as a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for "methods" or "functions" compared to a regular web site. As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Introduction text of the wiki (Was: Website re-design ideas)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: the very first page that is shown when you go to http://wiki.lyx.org?) I think it should be a kind of portal page that point people to the right group of wiki pages, preferably with a picture/icon for each group to make it easier to navigate and to understand the content. I hope I solved, at least for now, by changing the destination of the default page. Now it no longer points to LyX.Welcome, but to LyX.LyX, which is more like the portal page you described. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Mael Hilléreau wrote: I agree, I like all of them! What about a real platypus? See http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen It could work, but maybe the logotype should be there as well, making the connection stronger. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Introduction text of the wiki (Was: Website re-design ideas)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: the very first page that is shown when you go to http://wiki.lyx.org?) I think it should be a kind of portal page that point people to the right group of wiki pages, preferably with a picture/icon for each group to make it easier to navigate and to understand the content. I hope I solved, at least for now, by changing the destination of the default page. Now it no longer points to LyX.Welcome, but to LyX.LyX, which is more like the portal page you described. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Mael Hilléreau wrote: I agree, I like all of them! What about a real platypus? See http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen It could work, but maybe the logotype should be there as well, making the connection stronger. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Introduction text of the wiki (Was: Website re-design ideas)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: the very first page that is shown when you go to http://wiki.lyx.org?) I think it should be a kind of "portal page" that point people to the right group of wiki pages, preferably with a picture/icon for each group to make it easier to navigate and to understand the content. I hope I solved, at least for now, by changing the "destination" of the default page. Now it no longer points to "LyX.Welcome", but to "LyX.LyX", which is more like the portal page you described. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Mael Hilléreau wrote: I agree, I like all of them! What about a real platypus? See http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen It could work, but maybe the logotype should be there as well, making the connection stronger. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, AK wrote: A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. Mostly, for the project like LyX, I believe that graphical profile should be just a palette of colors and the logo. Ok. The only additional thing we could do is a custom 'mathy' font face, incorporating some characters used in math formulas, ... I don't think that's necessary... snip In case of a company like IBM... snip You certainly seems to know this stuff! :-) For LyX, I would say, it's more important to have a logo and template that look nice and pleasing to the eye. Ok, agreed. There will probably be many other sites that use similar color scheme, unless we do bright yellow on orange design, which is bad for other reasons. So, a casual user or someone entirely new won't think 'of course that's LyX color profile', but instead will think 'this design is nice' or 'this design isn't very nice' where the first reaction is preferable. Sounds good. People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. So, to sum up, we should have a color scheme that will be shared between site template and splash screen, and probably use a standard font face like Verdana or something similar for now, and have the Platypus as the main recognizable identifier of all things LyX. -andrei Great, sounds like a plan :-) I wrote down your thoughts here: http://www.lyx.org/~chr/www/index.php/Main/GraphicalProfile Whatever we agree on, we need to document it somewhere. Hmm... maybe I should have used the wiki instead. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Banner, Splash Screen, Logo, Mascot, Name, oh my!
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Rich Shepard wrote: On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: Guys, don't you believe your investing way too much time in this line of problems? :) It's for the first time in ten years or so. So that's a relatively minor portion of the developers time. It's also spring cleaning time, so why not clean the image, web site, wiki, etc.? As long as you keep your good will and energy, every thing's possible :-) Well, I'm doing this because it's fun! :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Does the logo look like a platypus? (Was: Primary colours of LyX? )Was: Website re-design ideas
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, John wrote: People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. But in all the time that the logo has been there it never occurred to me that it was a platypus, despite being familiar with the O'Reilly like platypus associated with the original example document. Same here... and I even saw it recently in an old book from Stroustrup that I was reading! While I would much prefer that the developers worry about improving and debugging an already superb product rather than fuss over the logo, if you must tinker with the logo, please make it resemble a platypus! Probably just changing the beak shape, and toning down those awful cartoon colours would be enough. Hear, hear! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, AK wrote: A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. Mostly, for the project like LyX, I believe that graphical profile should be just a palette of colors and the logo. Ok. The only additional thing we could do is a custom 'mathy' font face, incorporating some characters used in math formulas, ... I don't think that's necessary... snip In case of a company like IBM... snip You certainly seems to know this stuff! :-) For LyX, I would say, it's more important to have a logo and template that look nice and pleasing to the eye. Ok, agreed. There will probably be many other sites that use similar color scheme, unless we do bright yellow on orange design, which is bad for other reasons. So, a casual user or someone entirely new won't think 'of course that's LyX color profile', but instead will think 'this design is nice' or 'this design isn't very nice' where the first reaction is preferable. Sounds good. People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. So, to sum up, we should have a color scheme that will be shared between site template and splash screen, and probably use a standard font face like Verdana or something similar for now, and have the Platypus as the main recognizable identifier of all things LyX. -andrei Great, sounds like a plan :-) I wrote down your thoughts here: http://www.lyx.org/~chr/www/index.php/Main/GraphicalProfile Whatever we agree on, we need to document it somewhere. Hmm... maybe I should have used the wiki instead. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Banner, Splash Screen, Logo, Mascot, Name, oh my!
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Rich Shepard wrote: On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: Guys, don't you believe your investing way too much time in this line of problems? :) It's for the first time in ten years or so. So that's a relatively minor portion of the developers time. It's also spring cleaning time, so why not clean the image, web site, wiki, etc.? As long as you keep your good will and energy, every thing's possible :-) Well, I'm doing this because it's fun! :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Does the logo look like a platypus? (Was: Primary colours of LyX? )Was: Website re-design ideas
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, John wrote: People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. But in all the time that the logo has been there it never occurred to me that it was a platypus, despite being familiar with the O'Reilly like platypus associated with the original example document. Same here... and I even saw it recently in an old book from Stroustrup that I was reading! While I would much prefer that the developers worry about improving and debugging an already superb product rather than fuss over the logo, if you must tinker with the logo, please make it resemble a platypus! Probably just changing the beak shape, and toning down those awful cartoon colours would be enough. Hear, hear! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, AK wrote: A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. Mostly, for the project like LyX, I believe that graphical profile should be just a palette of colors and the logo. Ok. The only additional thing we could do is a custom 'mathy' font face, incorporating some characters used in math formulas, ... I don't think that's necessary... In case of a company like IBM... You certainly seems to know this stuff! :-) For LyX, I would say, it's more important to have a logo and template that look nice and pleasing to the eye. Ok, agreed. There will probably be many other sites that use similar color scheme, unless we do bright yellow on orange design, which is bad for other reasons. So, a casual user or someone entirely new won't think 'of course that's LyX color profile', but instead will think 'this design is nice' or 'this design isn't very nice' where the first reaction is preferable. Sounds good. People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. So, to sum up, we should have a color scheme that will be shared between site template and splash screen, and probably use a standard font face like Verdana or something similar for now, and have the Platypus as the main recognizable identifier of all things LyX. -andrei Great, sounds like a plan :-) I wrote down your thoughts here: http://www.lyx.org/~chr/www/index.php/Main/GraphicalProfile Whatever we agree on, we need to document it somewhere. Hmm... maybe I should have used the wiki instead. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Banner, Splash Screen, Logo, Mascot, Name, oh my!
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Rich Shepard wrote: On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Andre Poenitz wrote: > > Guys, don't you believe your "investing" way too much time in this > > line of > > "problems"? :) > It's for the first time in ten years or so. So that's a relatively > minor > portion of the developers time. It's also spring cleaning time, so why not clean the image, web site, wiki, etc.? As long as you keep your good will and energy, every thing's possible :-) Well, I'm doing this because it's fun! :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Does the logo look like a platypus? (Was: Primary colours of LyX? )Was: Website re-design ideas
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, John wrote: People will remember the Platypus, though, but we already have that. But in all the time that the logo has been there it never occurred to me that it was a platypus, despite being familiar with the O'Reilly like platypus associated with the original example document. Same here... and I even saw it recently in an old book from Stroustrup that I was reading! While I would much prefer that the developers worry about improving and debugging an already superb product rather than fuss over the logo, if you must tinker with the logo, please make it resemble a platypus! Probably just changing the beak shape, and toning down those awful cartoon colours would be enough. Hear, hear! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Name of the Mascot (Was: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo))
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: We should call our mascot Lydia. I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. We need more female users, as the developers are only male, we should at least have a femal mascot ;-). I simply like the name that was first proposed in bug 135. Sounds slightly sexist, we should hope for more female users and developers instead :-) Anyway, Lydia isn't bad, but inspires me to suggest Lyxia ... However, that bug seems resolved to 'The LyX' ? http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135 I put together some notes (and a photo of a real platypus!) here http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Mascot The page could useful if we start a discussion/vote on a new name. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Name of the Mascot (Was: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo))
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: We should call our mascot Lydia. I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. We need more female users, as the developers are only male, we should at least have a femal mascot ;-). I simply like the name that was first proposed in bug 135. Sounds slightly sexist, we should hope for more female users and developers instead :-) Anyway, Lydia isn't bad, but inspires me to suggest Lyxia ... However, that bug seems resolved to 'The LyX' ? http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135 I put together some notes (and a photo of a real platypus!) here http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Mascot The page could useful if we start a discussion/vote on a new name. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Name of the Mascot (Was: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo))
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > We should call our mascot "Lydia". I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. We need more female users, as the developers are only male, we should at least have a femal mascot ;-). I simply like the name that was first proposed in bug 135. Sounds slightly sexist, we should hope for more female users and developers instead :-) Anyway, Lydia isn't bad, but inspires me to suggest Lyxia ... However, that bug seems "resolved" to 'The LyX' ? http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135 I put together some notes (and a photo of a real platypus!) here http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Mascot The page could useful if we start a discussion/vote on a new name. /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, José Matos wrote: On Tuesday 25 March 2008 00:48:50 M-L wrote: I agree. The bird is good, instantly recognisable and synonymous with LyX. It is the LyX brand in that it is unique. That is not a bird. That is a platypus and is a mammal although it lays eggs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus Ah, and I guess it's no coincidence that there's a platypus in the users' guide? Is there a story behind this particular animal, e.g. something like that it's a hybrid animal, like LyX? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...) I think that if you did some more tweaking on that splash screen it'd get quite good. I hope you'll do so! What about this one? The copyright notice is less obvious now, I think that's good. The version number is gone now, do we need it? (A drawback with having it there is that we'd have to remember to change it in every release). Without the version text, there's no clash with the similar fonts of course. There is something about it that doesn't feel as good as the first... I can't exactly say why. Bad in splash2 compared to 1: * The first had a cleaner background which was nice, and somehow feels more generous The first was also nice without any borders or frames. * There seems to be more vertical space beteween the 'T' and the 'P' in the first splash, which looked better. I tried some modifications: * A mixture * Text vertically aligned on the right * Small copyright text * Small version text * I tried to make the stack of paper a little more clear at the bottom (the stuff at the top is an accident:-) I uploaded the images to this wiki page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Some ideas/inspiration: * http://www.photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/photoshop-splash-screens/ - various splash screens in Photoshop... ** I like it when they go ''outside'' the borders, that's cool. I'm less fond of all huge amount of text... ** What they do in their laters splash scrrens is to illustrate what the software can do. Maybe some formulas? About the platypus, I like the idea of using something based on it, but in the logo I think the beak is too narrow compared to the original- looks too much like a bird. Anyway, that's more related to the logotype. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I've uploaded some more designs to compare (including the current splash screen) at http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Joost, They are all outstanding! Very well thought out and crafted. Any of them will do everyone proud. I agree, I like all of them! It's neat how the platypus is sort of sitting on the blue bar on #4. Number #1 is neat since the stack of papers to me is related to LyX being a document processor. And #3 is clean and elegant. And #2 is growing on me, so I'll refrain from voting, they're all good. If there's no clear favourite, we can just switch between splash screens for the next few releases like Adobe Photoshop did. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: current banner because it includes the version number. Is there a difference between 'banner' and 'splash screen'? (I'm wondering if the wiki page shold be renamed) We should call our mascot Lydia. I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. And also why it's a platypus to begin with! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, José Matos wrote: On Tuesday 25 March 2008 00:48:50 M-L wrote: I agree. The bird is good, instantly recognisable and synonymous with LyX. It is the LyX brand in that it is unique. That is not a bird. That is a platypus and is a mammal although it lays eggs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus Ah, and I guess it's no coincidence that there's a platypus in the users' guide? Is there a story behind this particular animal, e.g. something like that it's a hybrid animal, like LyX? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...) I think that if you did some more tweaking on that splash screen it'd get quite good. I hope you'll do so! What about this one? The copyright notice is less obvious now, I think that's good. The version number is gone now, do we need it? (A drawback with having it there is that we'd have to remember to change it in every release). Without the version text, there's no clash with the similar fonts of course. There is something about it that doesn't feel as good as the first... I can't exactly say why. Bad in splash2 compared to 1: * The first had a cleaner background which was nice, and somehow feels more generous The first was also nice without any borders or frames. * There seems to be more vertical space beteween the 'T' and the 'P' in the first splash, which looked better. I tried some modifications: * A mixture * Text vertically aligned on the right * Small copyright text * Small version text * I tried to make the stack of paper a little more clear at the bottom (the stuff at the top is an accident:-) I uploaded the images to this wiki page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Some ideas/inspiration: * http://www.photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/photoshop-splash-screens/ - various splash screens in Photoshop... ** I like it when they go ''outside'' the borders, that's cool. I'm less fond of all huge amount of text... ** What they do in their laters splash scrrens is to illustrate what the software can do. Maybe some formulas? About the platypus, I like the idea of using something based on it, but in the logo I think the beak is too narrow compared to the original- looks too much like a bird. Anyway, that's more related to the logotype. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I've uploaded some more designs to compare (including the current splash screen) at http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Joost, They are all outstanding! Very well thought out and crafted. Any of them will do everyone proud. I agree, I like all of them! It's neat how the platypus is sort of sitting on the blue bar on #4. Number #1 is neat since the stack of papers to me is related to LyX being a document processor. And #3 is clean and elegant. And #2 is growing on me, so I'll refrain from voting, they're all good. If there's no clear favourite, we can just switch between splash screens for the next few releases like Adobe Photoshop did. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: current banner because it includes the version number. Is there a difference between 'banner' and 'splash screen'? (I'm wondering if the wiki page shold be renamed) We should call our mascot Lydia. I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. And also why it's a platypus to begin with! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, José Matos wrote: On Tuesday 25 March 2008 00:48:50 M-L wrote: I agree. The bird is good, instantly recognisable and synonymous with LyX. It is the LyX brand in that it is unique. That is not a bird. That is a platypus and is a mammal although it lays eggs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus Ah, and I guess it's no coincidence that there's a platypus in the users' guide? Is there a story behind this particular animal, e.g. something like that it's a "hybrid animal", like LyX? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...) I think that if you did some more tweaking on that splash screen it'd get quite good. I hope you'll do so! What about this one? The copyright notice is less obvious now, I think that's good. The version number is gone now, do we need it? (A drawback with having it there is that we'd have to remember to change it in every release). Without the version text, there's no clash with the similar fonts of course. There is something about it that doesn't feel as good as the first... I can't exactly say why. Bad in splash2 compared to 1: * The first had a cleaner background which was nice, and somehow feels more "generous" The first was also nice without any borders or frames. * There seems to be more vertical space beteween the 'T' and the 'P' in the first splash, which looked better. I tried some modifications: * A mixture * Text vertically aligned on the right * Small copyright text * Small version text * I tried to make the stack of paper a little more clear at the bottom (the stuff at the top is an accident:-) I uploaded the images to this wiki page: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Some ideas/inspiration: * http://www.photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/photoshop-splash-screens/ - various splash screens in Photoshop... ** I like it when they go ''outside'' the borders, that's cool. I'm less fond of all huge amount of text... ** What they do in their laters splash scrrens is to illustrate what the software can do. Maybe some formulas? About the platypus, I like the idea of using something based on it, but in the logo I think the beak is too narrow compared to the original- looks too much like a bird. Anyway, that's more related to the logotype. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I've uploaded some more designs to compare (including the current splash screen) at http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/SplashScreen Joost, They are all outstanding! Very well thought out and crafted. Any of them will do everyone proud. I agree, I like all of them! It's neat how the platypus is sort of sitting on the blue bar on #4. Number #1 is neat since the stack of papers to me is related to LyX being a document processor. And #3 is clean and elegant. And #2 is growing on me, so I'll refrain from voting, they're all good. If there's no clear favourite, we can just switch between splash screens for the next few releases like Adobe Photoshop did. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: New splash screen (Was: LyX logo)
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Uwe Stöhr wrote: current banner because it includes the version number. Is there a difference between 'banner' and 'splash screen'? (I'm wondering if the wiki page shold be renamed) We should call our mascot "Lydia". I'm not against it, but I'm curious about the reasoning. And also why it's a platypus to begin with! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Request for screenshots
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Steve Litt wrote: It's more a marketing thing, you don't want your software to look too unusual at first sight. Just like with websites, people tend to quickly uninstall things they don't understand. I think the background color is something that makes LyX unique in a positive way. Jürgen I disagree. You can achieve recognition with the logo, but the background color just makes things less readable. If I understand you correctly, you think it's easier to read with a completely white background? I prefer less intensity, to me a normal paper has less intensity than a computer screen on full white. Guess people's opinions vary :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do LyX have some sort of primary colours? Or some kind of colour theme? My company spent money on letting a designer come up with a colour set, where we should try and use a certain combo of colours... Do we have something like that? In my opinion a color set should be a part of the new design. Ok, but less easy... now I remember what it was called, she referred to it as the 'graphial profile'. It involved more than just colours, also what fonts we should use etc. Anyway, the designer we used apparantly spent quite a bit of time thinking this through somehow.. I just wonder if we'll be able to come up with something useful. But maybe this is were Andrei's expertise comes into play? According to my gf it's non trival, and apparantly related to branding... and we should start with what LyX represents, and what its core values are how are we different from the competition... sigh, can't we just do development? ;-) Actually, it's probably a good idea to see what kind of graphial profiles OO, MS Word, Abi Word and LaTeX have? /Christian PS. I tried finding some kind of explanation of what a graphical profile is... this sounds like the thing I meant. From http://moonmanstudio.com/graphicalprofile.php Logo graphical profile Any company needs a logo and preferably a graphical profile to make themselves known to their customers. Think of the big companies, think of IBM: stripy and blue, McDonalds: M and yellow. They are graphical profiles that helps give them an image that sticks in customers minds. Not only do they help the business stand out, but it also creates a reputation. IBM's logo gives a very traditional feel, serene and solid. It represents something you can rely on in the marketplace. While the McDonalds logo is dynamic and fun, inviting you to a feel-good experience. A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I'd like to have the bird in one way or the other. Smoothing edges, adding something in the background or similar I can live with... A good logo should be recognized immediately. The bird is the only one here that is somewhat unique. I don't know how it represents the LyX brand and it may be more a mascot than a logo, but in my opinion we should not change the logo unless we get one that is really professionally designed. I agree. My girlfriend had a suggestion, could we get some design student to do a project related to this? According to her, such students might be looking for projects as part of their studies. Does anyone have connections to design schools or design students? About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish * unstructured * many different elements and colours = unclear * home made She suggests we should think about what kind of words the logo should inspire, and also think about who the customers are. I guess this would be words and concepts such as: * WYSIWYM * Strutured/semantic document creation * Academic/scientific users She also asked me about what's unique with LyX, and suggests this should be somehow represented in the logotype. In the meanwhile it may however be a good idea to stick to a single logo instead of the current logo and banner. If the bird is combined with the word LyX I would prefer the typeface to be more simple instead of the rotated/colorful letters of the banner. Just as an example, I attached a splash screen design with the logo that I think looks more professional. I think it's certainly an improvement. According to my gf, it's a drawback that it's not clear what part is the logotype, and what part isn't. Also the font appearance of 'The Document Processor' and 'version 1.6' should either be the same, or clearly not the same. Here they are for instance almost the same size, but not exactly the same size which is bad. The text Copyright ..., placed in the lower left corner, becomes too important in comparsion to other parts. If placed in e.g. the lower right corner, we'd not get the same effect. She speculates that you placed the text there because of the gradient, as a way to complete the square. She gives the old splash screen a grade of 1 (out of 5), and yours get a grade of 3. So it's certainly an improvement! Anyway, writing down her comments I've certainly learnt a lot. Most importantly that there can actually be some thinking involved in creating stuff like this! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: A good logo should be recognized immediately. The bird is the only one here that is somewhat unique. I don't know how it represents the LyX brand and it may be more a mascot than a logo, but in my opinion we should not change the logo unless we get one that is really professionally designed. I don't even see a reason to use a completely new logo even if it were professional designed... +1 I think we should only replace it if we can come up with a logotype that really is good. Btw, one possibly good thing with the current logotype might be that it associates to creativity, through it's childish appearance. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: might be that it associates to creativity, through it's childish appearance. after all i'm just a child playing with toys. Just like the rest of us:-) Guess it really comes down to the kind of users we _want_ :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Password now required to approve URIs on the wiki
Hi, Because of recent spam, I decided to see if it helps that we now require a password in order to approve a URI. What this mean is that if you edit a wiki page in order to add a link to an external web page, it does not automatically become a link. First you have click on the text approve link. When you do this, you are asked for a password. This is the same password as for uploading files. If you need it, just ask on one of the mailing lists. Best regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Request for screenshots
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Steve Litt wrote: Hi Christian, I had been talking about the website. I believe the application itself has perfect color as it exists right now. *LOL* I'll leave this particular discussion, it's just to confusing! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. My girlfriend had a suggestion, could we get some design student to do a project related to this? Sounds like a great idea. Any ideas on how we find such a person? She gives the old splash screen a grade of 1 (out of 5), and yours get a grade of 3. So it's certainly an improvement! I agree with these grades. This is just a quick example I made in a few minutes, not a final proposal for a new design or anything like that. Based on what you wrote in another post, you seem to know way more about this stuff than I do, and I think that if you did some more tweaking on that splash screen it'd get quite good. I hope you'll do so! Oh, a minor point. It wasn't that easy to see what the thing in the background is. Is it supposed to be a stack of papers? And perhaps the 'Y' in LyX could be a little bit higher up? What software did you use to create the image? Anyway, writing down her comments I've certainly learnt a lot. Most importantly that there can actually be some thinking involved in creating stuff like this! Yes. Personally I think a nice website and logo are quite important. Of course many developers and current users just care about the quality of the software, but effective marketing can attract new users and developers and generate more activity and interest. Products like Mozilla Firefox have become very popular because of good advertising combined with good software. I agree. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Request for screenshots
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Steve Litt wrote: It's more a marketing thing, you don't want your software to look too unusual at first sight. Just like with websites, people tend to quickly uninstall things they don't understand. I think the background color is something that makes LyX unique in a positive way. Jürgen I disagree. You can achieve recognition with the logo, but the background color just makes things less readable. If I understand you correctly, you think it's easier to read with a completely white background? I prefer less intensity, to me a normal paper has less intensity than a computer screen on full white. Guess people's opinions vary :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do LyX have some sort of primary colours? Or some kind of colour theme? My company spent money on letting a designer come up with a colour set, where we should try and use a certain combo of colours... Do we have something like that? In my opinion a color set should be a part of the new design. Ok, but less easy... now I remember what it was called, she referred to it as the 'graphial profile'. It involved more than just colours, also what fonts we should use etc. Anyway, the designer we used apparantly spent quite a bit of time thinking this through somehow.. I just wonder if we'll be able to come up with something useful. But maybe this is were Andrei's expertise comes into play? According to my gf it's non trival, and apparantly related to branding... and we should start with what LyX represents, and what its core values are how are we different from the competition... sigh, can't we just do development? ;-) Actually, it's probably a good idea to see what kind of graphial profiles OO, MS Word, Abi Word and LaTeX have? /Christian PS. I tried finding some kind of explanation of what a graphical profile is... this sounds like the thing I meant. From http://moonmanstudio.com/graphicalprofile.php Logo graphical profile Any company needs a logo and preferably a graphical profile to make themselves known to their customers. Think of the big companies, think of IBM: stripy and blue, McDonalds: M and yellow. They are graphical profiles that helps give them an image that sticks in customers minds. Not only do they help the business stand out, but it also creates a reputation. IBM's logo gives a very traditional feel, serene and solid. It represents something you can rely on in the marketplace. While the McDonalds logo is dynamic and fun, inviting you to a feel-good experience. A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I'd like to have the bird in one way or the other. Smoothing edges, adding something in the background or similar I can live with... A good logo should be recognized immediately. The bird is the only one here that is somewhat unique. I don't know how it represents the LyX brand and it may be more a mascot than a logo, but in my opinion we should not change the logo unless we get one that is really professionally designed. I agree. My girlfriend had a suggestion, could we get some design student to do a project related to this? According to her, such students might be looking for projects as part of their studies. Does anyone have connections to design schools or design students? About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish * unstructured * many different elements and colours = unclear * home made She suggests we should think about what kind of words the logo should inspire, and also think about who the customers are. I guess this would be words and concepts such as: * WYSIWYM * Strutured/semantic document creation * Academic/scientific users She also asked me about what's unique with LyX, and suggests this should be somehow represented in the logotype. In the meanwhile it may however be a good idea to stick to a single logo instead of the current logo and banner. If the bird is combined with the word LyX I would prefer the typeface to be more simple instead of the rotated/colorful letters of the banner. Just as an example, I attached a splash screen design with the logo that I think looks more professional. I think it's certainly an improvement. According to my gf, it's a drawback that it's not clear what part is the logotype, and what part isn't. Also the font appearance of 'The Document Processor' and 'version 1.6' should either be the same, or clearly not the same. Here they are for instance almost the same size, but not exactly the same size which is bad. The text Copyright ..., placed in the lower left corner, becomes too important in comparsion to other parts. If placed in e.g. the lower right corner, we'd not get the same effect. She speculates that you placed the text there because of the gradient, as a way to complete the square. She gives the old splash screen a grade of 1 (out of 5), and yours get a grade of 3. So it's certainly an improvement! Anyway, writing down her comments I've certainly learnt a lot. Most importantly that there can actually be some thinking involved in creating stuff like this! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: A good logo should be recognized immediately. The bird is the only one here that is somewhat unique. I don't know how it represents the LyX brand and it may be more a mascot than a logo, but in my opinion we should not change the logo unless we get one that is really professionally designed. I don't even see a reason to use a completely new logo even if it were professional designed... +1 I think we should only replace it if we can come up with a logotype that really is good. Btw, one possibly good thing with the current logotype might be that it associates to creativity, through it's childish appearance. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: might be that it associates to creativity, through it's childish appearance. after all i'm just a child playing with toys. Just like the rest of us:-) Guess it really comes down to the kind of users we _want_ :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Password now required to approve URIs on the wiki
Hi, Because of recent spam, I decided to see if it helps that we now require a password in order to approve a URI. What this mean is that if you edit a wiki page in order to add a link to an external web page, it does not automatically become a link. First you have click on the text approve link. When you do this, you are asked for a password. This is the same password as for uploading files. If you need it, just ask on one of the mailing lists. Best regards, Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Request for screenshots
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Steve Litt wrote: Hi Christian, I had been talking about the website. I believe the application itself has perfect color as it exists right now. *LOL* I'll leave this particular discussion, it's just to confusing! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. My girlfriend had a suggestion, could we get some design student to do a project related to this? Sounds like a great idea. Any ideas on how we find such a person? She gives the old splash screen a grade of 1 (out of 5), and yours get a grade of 3. So it's certainly an improvement! I agree with these grades. This is just a quick example I made in a few minutes, not a final proposal for a new design or anything like that. Based on what you wrote in another post, you seem to know way more about this stuff than I do, and I think that if you did some more tweaking on that splash screen it'd get quite good. I hope you'll do so! Oh, a minor point. It wasn't that easy to see what the thing in the background is. Is it supposed to be a stack of papers? And perhaps the 'Y' in LyX could be a little bit higher up? What software did you use to create the image? Anyway, writing down her comments I've certainly learnt a lot. Most importantly that there can actually be some thinking involved in creating stuff like this! Yes. Personally I think a nice website and logo are quite important. Of course many developers and current users just care about the quality of the software, but effective marketing can attract new users and developers and generate more activity and interest. Products like Mozilla Firefox have become very popular because of good advertising combined with good software. I agree. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Request for screenshots
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Steve Litt wrote: It's more a marketing thing, you don't want your software to look too unusual at first sight. Just like with websites, people tend to quickly uninstall things they don't understand. I think the background color is something that makes LyX unique in a positive way. Jürgen I disagree. You can achieve recognition with the logo, but the background color just makes things less readable. If I understand you correctly, you think it's easier to read with a completely white background? I prefer less intensity, to me a normal paper has less intensity than a computer screen on "full" white. Guess people's opinions vary :-) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Primary colours of LyX? Was: Website re-design ideas
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do "LyX" have some sort of "primary" colours? Or some kind of colour theme? My company spent money on letting a designer come up with a colour set, where we should try and use a certain combo of colours... Do we have something like that? In my opinion a color set should be a part of the new design. Ok, but less easy... now I remember what it was called, she referred to it as the 'graphial profile'. It involved more than just colours, also what fonts we should use etc. Anyway, the designer we used apparantly spent quite a bit of time thinking this through somehow.. I just wonder if we'll be able to come up with something useful. But maybe this is were Andrei's expertise comes into play? According to my gf it's non trival, and apparantly related to "branding"... and we should start with what LyX represents, and what its core values are how are we different from the competition... sigh, can't we just do development? ;-) Actually, it's probably a good idea to see what kind of graphial profiles OO, MS Word, Abi Word and LaTeX have? /Christian PS. I tried finding some kind of explanation of what a graphical profile is... this sounds like the thing I meant. From http://moonmanstudio.com/graphicalprofile.php Logo & graphical profile Any company needs a logo and preferably a graphical profile to make themselves known to their customers. Think of the big companies, think of IBM: stripy and blue, McDonalds: M and yellow. They are graphical profiles that helps give them an image that sticks in customers minds. Not only do they help the business stand out, but it also creates a reputation. IBM's logo gives a very traditional feel, serene and solid. It represents something you can rely on in the marketplace. While the McDonalds logo is dynamic and fun, inviting you to a feel-good experience. A graphical profile spans logo, colours, business cards, stationeries, and a range of supplies for commercial purposes. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: LyX logo
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote: I'd like to have "the bird" in one way or the other. Smoothing edges, adding something in the background or similar I can live with... A good logo should be recognized immediately. The bird is the only one here that is somewhat unique. I don't know how it represents the "LyX brand" and it may be more a mascot than a logo, but in my opinion we should not change the logo unless we get one that is really professionally designed. I agree. My girlfriend had a suggestion, could we get some design student to do a project related to this? According to her, such students might be looking for projects as part of their studies. Does anyone have connections to design schools or design students? About the logo, her reaction to the current logo were along the following lines (I have to translate): * toys, playground, childish * unstructured * many different elements and colours => unclear * home made She suggests we should think about what kind of words the logo should inspire, and also think about who the "customers" are. I guess this would be words and concepts such as: * WYSIWYM * Strutured/semantic document creation * Academic/scientific users She also asked me about what's unique with LyX, and suggests this should be somehow represented in the logotype. In the meanwhile it may however be a good idea to stick to a single logo instead of the current logo and banner. If the bird is combined with the word LyX I would prefer the typeface to be more simple instead of the rotated/colorful letters of the banner. Just as an example, I attached a splash screen design with the logo that I think looks more professional. I think it's certainly an improvement. According to my gf, it's a drawback that it's not clear what part is the logotype, and what part isn't. Also the font appearance of 'The Document Processor' and 'version 1.6' should either be the same, or clearly not the same. Here they are for instance almost the same size, but not exactly the same size which is bad. The text "Copyright ...", placed in the lower left corner, becomes too important in comparsion to other parts. If placed in e.g. the lower right corner, we'd not get the same effect. She speculates that you placed the text there because of the gradient, as a way to "complete the square". She gives the old splash screen a grade of 1 (out of 5), and yours get a grade of 3. So it's certainly an improvement! Anyway, writing down her comments I've certainly learnt a lot. Most importantly that there can actually be some thinking involved in creating stuff like this! /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
