Re: subject index gives error, name index is alright

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Monday, 24. June 2013, 11:23:43 schrieb Wolfgang Engelmann:

I have solved it by removing the .idx .ind and .aux file of a former latex 
run. 

The hint came from this:

http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/82669/will-cruft-from-a-previous-
compile-ever-change-the-final-look-of-my-document

Wolfgang

 Hello List,
 
 after having spent several hours to find out an error I would like to
 ask for your help.
 
 I am translating a book (of about 200 pages) which I have written in
 German into English.
 The pdf output of the German one is ok.
 The output of the English version gives me an error (see ###1###)
 and view complete log gives me (see ###2###)
 
 If I comment out the subject index at the end of my document it works
 alright.
 The name index works alright.
 
 Has anybody run into such an error and could give me a hint what is
 going wrong?
 
 I am using koma script book style and A5 size, if this is of concern.
 
 Is there a way (eg in the tex file) to take off parts of the indexed
 entries, in order to localize the entry causing the error?
 
 Wolfgang
 
 ###1###)
  \subitem field}
 \selectlanguage{american}% , \hyperpage{45}
 I've deleted a group-closing symbol because it seems to be
 spurious, as in `$x}$'. But perhaps the } is legitimate and
 you forgot something else, as in `\hbox{$x}'. In such cases
 the way to recover is to insert both the forgotten and the
 deleted material, e.g., by typing `I$}'.
 
  ###2###)
 ]) (./AAAFlowerClock20130626A-idx.ind [201] [202
 
 ] [203
 ]
 ! Extra }, or forgotten \endgroup.


-- 
-
Wolfgang Engelmann
Schlossgartenstrasse 22
D-72070 Tübingen
Tel 07071 68325

Re: subject index gives error, name index is alright

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Monday, 24. June 2013, 11:23:43 schrieb Wolfgang Engelmann:

I have solved it by removing the .idx .ind and .aux file of a former latex 
run. 

The hint came from this:

http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/82669/will-cruft-from-a-previous-
compile-ever-change-the-final-look-of-my-document

Wolfgang

 Hello List,
 
 after having spent several hours to find out an error I would like to
 ask for your help.
 
 I am translating a book (of about 200 pages) which I have written in
 German into English.
 The pdf output of the German one is ok.
 The output of the English version gives me an error (see ###1###)
 and view complete log gives me (see ###2###)
 
 If I comment out the subject index at the end of my document it works
 alright.
 The name index works alright.
 
 Has anybody run into such an error and could give me a hint what is
 going wrong?
 
 I am using koma script book style and A5 size, if this is of concern.
 
 Is there a way (eg in the tex file) to take off parts of the indexed
 entries, in order to localize the entry causing the error?
 
 Wolfgang
 
 ###1###)
  \subitem field}
 \selectlanguage{american}% , \hyperpage{45}
 I've deleted a group-closing symbol because it seems to be
 spurious, as in `$x}$'. But perhaps the } is legitimate and
 you forgot something else, as in `\hbox{$x}'. In such cases
 the way to recover is to insert both the forgotten and the
 deleted material, e.g., by typing `I$}'.
 
  ###2###)
 ]) (./AAAFlowerClock20130626A-idx.ind [201] [202
 
 ] [203
 ]
 ! Extra }, or forgotten \endgroup.


-- 
-
Wolfgang Engelmann
Schlossgartenstrasse 22
D-72070 Tübingen
Tel 07071 68325

Re: subject index gives error, name index is alright

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Monday, 24. June 2013, 11:23:43 schrieb Wolfgang Engelmann:

I have solved it by removing the .idx .ind and .aux file of a former latex 
run. 

The hint came from this:

http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/82669/will-cruft-from-a-previous-
compile-ever-change-the-final-look-of-my-document

Wolfgang

> Hello List,
> 
> after having spent several hours to find out an error I would like to
> ask for your help.
> 
> I am translating a book (of about 200 pages) which I have written in
> German into English.
> The pdf output of the German one is ok.
> The output of the English version gives me an error (see ###1###)
> and view complete log gives me (see ###2###)
> 
> If I comment out the subject index at the end of my document it works
> alright.
> The name index works alright.
> 
> Has anybody run into such an error and could give me a hint what is
> going wrong?
> 
> I am using koma script book style and A5 size, if this is of concern.
> 
> Is there a way (eg in the tex file) to take off parts of the indexed
> entries, in order to localize the entry causing the error?
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> ###1###)
>  \subitem field}
> \selectlanguage{american}% , \hyperpage{45}
> I've deleted a group-closing symbol because it seems to be
> spurious, as in `$x}$'. But perhaps the } is legitimate and
> you forgot something else, as in `\hbox{$x}'. In such cases
> the way to recover is to insert both the forgotten and the
> deleted material, e.g., by typing `I$}'.
> 
>  ###2###)
> ]) (./AAAFlowerClock20130626A-idx.ind [201] [202
> 
> ] [203
> ]
> ! Extra }, or forgotten \endgroup.


-- 
-
Wolfgang Engelmann
Schlossgartenstrasse 22
D-72070 Tübingen
Tel 07071 68325

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

 Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
 Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
 guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
 resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
 would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

OK. Sadly I am not that person, but I am very glad that this
discussion has occurred and at least the potential for improvements
identified.

 But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
 of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
 use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

 Do you have an example for such a document?

I will email you immediately with a copy.

 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

 I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
 The focus was the management of personal word lists.

 We have support for different spell checker backends.
 All of them are able to check words, of course.
 But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
 The following table presents the results of my investigation.

 Feature     | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
 
 check       | +      | +            | +       | +
 suggest     | +      | +            | +       | +
 accept      | +      | +            | +       | +
 insert      | +      | +            | o (2)   | o (3)
 ispersonal? | o (1)  | +            | -       | -
 remove      | -      | +            | + (4)   | -

 Legend:
 + feature is supported
 - feature is not supported
 o there are limitations:
 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
   So it's possible to implement, I have a patch for LyX at hand.
 2) The versions below 1.6.0 are truncating the personal word list
   on open - effectively no personal word list available after restart.
 3) There is no persistent state for personal word lists.
 (4) Enchant manages it's own personal word lists.

Thanks for this very interesting review.

Points (2) and (3), plus the lack of a remove feature for some
engines, seem to be the sorts of things that comments upstream
could fix.  In addition, (3) could be worked around by LyX pretty
easily (though such code is always best avoided), and both (2)
and missing remove functionality seem not critical (just annoying).

Could you please clarify what the purpose of 'ispersonal?' is at the
LyX UI level?  I'm guessing it's a feature to test whether a word
came from a standard dictionary or from a personal dictionary,
but I am unsure of whether this distinction is useful at all for LyX?

 There is some rumor on the net already to consolidate the spelling
 for the whole desktop.
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConsolidateSpellingLibs
 I don't know how long it would last to get some result.

This seems to be a move for pushing Ubuntu towards hunspell
and enchant.  hunspell is claimed to be the most modern
implementation of a multilingual spell checking backend.

However, its language support is not complete, so users of
some languages still require support for other, specialised
engines (Voikko for Finnish, Zemberek for Turkish, Uspell for
Yiddish, Hebrew, and Eastern European languages, Hspell
for Hebrew) which enchant can provide.

Contrary to your prior email, it seems that enchant does
work on OSX, since support for AppleSpell (Mac OSX) is
claimed @ http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

(Note: Ubuntu cites problems preventing the dropping of
older implementations due to the lack of upstream hunspell
or enchant support in some major software packages, such
as PHP. GTKSpell and KDE use enchant already).

 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really 
 solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to 
 link
   the manual language markup made in conjunction with a font-linked 
 solution
   to the manual language 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

 Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
 Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
 guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
 resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
 would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

OK. Sadly I am not that person, but I am very glad that this
discussion has occurred and at least the potential for improvements
identified.

 But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
 of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
 use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

 Do you have an example for such a document?

I will email you immediately with a copy.

 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

 I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
 The focus was the management of personal word lists.

 We have support for different spell checker backends.
 All of them are able to check words, of course.
 But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
 The following table presents the results of my investigation.

 Feature     | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
 
 check       | +      | +            | +       | +
 suggest     | +      | +            | +       | +
 accept      | +      | +            | +       | +
 insert      | +      | +            | o (2)   | o (3)
 ispersonal? | o (1)  | +            | -       | -
 remove      | -      | +            | + (4)   | -

 Legend:
 + feature is supported
 - feature is not supported
 o there are limitations:
 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
   So it's possible to implement, I have a patch for LyX at hand.
 2) The versions below 1.6.0 are truncating the personal word list
   on open - effectively no personal word list available after restart.
 3) There is no persistent state for personal word lists.
 (4) Enchant manages it's own personal word lists.

Thanks for this very interesting review.

Points (2) and (3), plus the lack of a remove feature for some
engines, seem to be the sorts of things that comments upstream
could fix.  In addition, (3) could be worked around by LyX pretty
easily (though such code is always best avoided), and both (2)
and missing remove functionality seem not critical (just annoying).

Could you please clarify what the purpose of 'ispersonal?' is at the
LyX UI level?  I'm guessing it's a feature to test whether a word
came from a standard dictionary or from a personal dictionary,
but I am unsure of whether this distinction is useful at all for LyX?

 There is some rumor on the net already to consolidate the spelling
 for the whole desktop.
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConsolidateSpellingLibs
 I don't know how long it would last to get some result.

This seems to be a move for pushing Ubuntu towards hunspell
and enchant.  hunspell is claimed to be the most modern
implementation of a multilingual spell checking backend.

However, its language support is not complete, so users of
some languages still require support for other, specialised
engines (Voikko for Finnish, Zemberek for Turkish, Uspell for
Yiddish, Hebrew, and Eastern European languages, Hspell
for Hebrew) which enchant can provide.

Contrary to your prior email, it seems that enchant does
work on OSX, since support for AppleSpell (Mac OSX) is
claimed @ http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

(Note: Ubuntu cites problems preventing the dropping of
older implementations due to the lack of upstream hunspell
or enchant support in some major software packages, such
as PHP. GTKSpell and KDE use enchant already).

 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really 
 solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to 
 link
   the manual language markup made in conjunction with a font-linked 
 solution
   to the manual language 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

>> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html
>
> Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
> Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
> guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
> resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
> would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

OK. Sadly I am not that person, but I am very glad that this
discussion has occurred and at least the potential for improvements
identified.

>> But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
>> of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
>> use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.
>
> Do you have an example for such a document?

I will email you immediately with a copy.

>>> But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
>>> checker -
>>> aspell e. g. accepts completely different "alternative" language settings as
>>> hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
>>> runtime-environment -
>>> what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
>>> And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
>>> runtime.
>>
>> This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
>> there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
>> layer
>> available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
>> known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?
>
> I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
> The focus was the management of personal word lists.
>
>> We have support for different spell checker backends.
>> All of them are able to check words, of course.
>> But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
>> The following table presents the results of my investigation.
>>
>> Feature     | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
>> 
>> check       | +      | +            | +       | +
>> suggest     | +      | +            | +       | +
>> accept      | +      | +            | +       | +
>> insert      | +      | +            | o (2)   | o (3)
>> ispersonal? | o (1)  | +            | -       | -
>> remove      | -      | +            | + (4)   | -
>>
>> Legend:
>> + feature is supported
>> - feature is not supported
>> o there are limitations:
>> 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
>>   So it's possible to implement, I have a patch for LyX at hand.
>> 2) The versions below 1.6.0 are truncating the personal word list
>>   on open - effectively no personal word list available after restart.
>> 3) There is no persistent state for personal word lists.
> (4) Enchant manages it's own personal word lists.

Thanks for this very interesting review.

Points (2) and (3), plus the lack of a remove feature for some
engines, seem to be the sorts of things that comments upstream
could fix.  In addition, (3) could be worked around by LyX pretty
easily (though such code is always best avoided), and both (2)
and missing remove functionality seem not critical (just annoying).

Could you please clarify what the purpose of 'ispersonal?' is at the
LyX UI level?  I'm guessing it's a feature to test whether a word
came from a "standard" dictionary or from a "personal" dictionary,
but I am unsure of whether this distinction is useful at all for LyX?

>> There is some rumor on the net already to consolidate the spelling
>> for the whole desktop.
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConsolidateSpellingLibs
>> I don't know how long it would last to get some result.

This seems to be a move for pushing Ubuntu towards hunspell
and enchant.  hunspell is claimed to be the most modern
implementation of a multilingual spell checking backend.

However, its language support is not complete, so users of
some languages still require support for other, specialised
engines (Voikko for Finnish, Zemberek for Turkish, Uspell for
Yiddish, Hebrew, and Eastern European languages, Hspell
for Hebrew) which enchant can provide.

Contrary to your prior email, it seems that enchant does
work on OSX, since support for AppleSpell (Mac OSX) is
claimed @ http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

(Note: Ubuntu cites problems preventing the dropping of
older implementations due to the lack of upstream hunspell
or enchant support in some major software packages, such
as PHP. GTKSpell and KDE use enchant already).

 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   "solutions" in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really 
 "solutions"
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 26.01.2011 um 15:00 schrieb Walter:

I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had to 
write this.

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.
 
 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.
 
 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.
 
 
 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)

The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:
 
It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore.
 
   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
plans to change that.

   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or comma),
   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
   possible remains unclear.
 
   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex integration
   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight or
   perhaps ever.

Alternative language is a - as I would rate it - cul-de-sac and shouldn't be 
there.
If any LyX should have a mapping of available languages to alternate languages.

As it is now the single value here is used for all text having the documents 
language
as a replacement to pass on to the spell checker.

So if you want to use English (UK) you don't need to change it here -
simply set your document language to English (UK).

The alternate language is used for all (!) languages regardless of making 
any sense. If you edit a french LyX-document and the alternate language
is set to en_GB e. g. you'll have no fun.

This is what I would rate as a bug. 

So this field is of very limited use and should be replaced by something else.
Of course something else may have an more user friendly interface too...

But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell checker -
aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the runtime-environment -
what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
runtime.

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
the language at a given position and no selection exists. That sounds
sensible...

 3. 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had 
 to write this.

Relativity...

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.

 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.

 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.


 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)

 The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.

Correct!

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:

    It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
     most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
     an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore.

   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
    - Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
    - I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
      at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
      names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
      Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
      is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

 Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
 mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
 plans to change that.

On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontwrap/
 So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
otherwise overridden.

But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.

This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

 Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

Great!

 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

 You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
 the language at a given position and no selection exists. That sounds
 sensible...

Hurrah!

 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to link
   

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello
This is a long document indeed and, unfortunately, I couldn't find the  
will to go through it all. But I should have a couple of interesting  
references regarding multilingual documents.


This has been discussed previously on the list, in the context of XeTeX  
support in LyX 2.0 SVN:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66485

Especially Daron's comments:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66547

Hope this is of help
Liviu



On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:00:56 +0100, Walter walter.stan...@gmail.com  
wrote:


(Note: Mostly this email dates from pre-Christmas December - took me  
awhile

   to post!)

(This is a bit more verbose than it should be, as I am presently stuck in
an historic colonial hill station of Tunisia, by the Algerian border, and
being winter the weather is bitter and I am therefore locked in my hotel
room with time, but no internet connection!)

Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
a spell check for the first time.

The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras,  
however

the following struck me as possible to improve.

Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.


1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt  
right

   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though  
that's

   probably my fault.)

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell'  
would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected  
format

   for the entry of a single language value probable:

It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code  
and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or  
underscore.


   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two  
problems:

- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise  
even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and  
place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese  
(+romanised

  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or  
comma),

   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
   possible remains unclear.

   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex  
integration

   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight  
or

   perhaps ever.

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails  
[*]

   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language  
Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1  
was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are  
right

   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use  
'Edit|

   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of  
multilingual

   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really  
solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to  
link
   the manual language markup made in conjunction with a font-linked  
solution

   to the manual language markup required for spellchecking purposes.

   The TeX-world's colourful background to all this is understandable,  
and of
   course I would not suggest to fly in the face of either  
configurability
   nor tradition nor the 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

- Walter

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Walter walter.stan...@gmail.com wrote:
 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

 Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

LyX supports enchant. [1] [2]
Liviu

[1] http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/NewInLyX20#toc28
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-announce@lists.lyx.org/msg00124.html


 - Walter




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 15:16 schrieb Walter:

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?
 
 Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

Unfortunately enchant has big drawbacks:
* missing language variety support
* not available for LyX on mac

And in fact it is only a wrapper around existing spell checkers -
just as LyX is :-)

Stephan

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 14:05 schrieb Walter:

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.
 
 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.
 
 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.
 
 
 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)
 
 The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.
 
 Correct!
 
   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:
 
It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or 
 underscore.
 
   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)
 
 Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
 mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
 plans to change that.
 
 On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
 Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
 module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

 http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontwrap/
 So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
 otherwise overridden.
 
 But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
 of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
 use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

Do you have an example for such a document?

 
 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.
 
 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
The focus was the management of personal word lists.

 We have support for different spell checker backends.
 All of them are able to check words, of course.
 But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
 The following table presents the results of my investigation.
 
 Feature | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
 
 check   | +  | +| +   | +
 suggest | +  | +| +   | +
 accept  | +  | +| +   | +
 insert  | +  | +| o (2)   | o (3)
 ispersonal? | o (1)  | +| -   | -
 remove  | -  | +| + (4)   | -
 
 Legend:
 + feature is supported
 - feature is not supported
 o there are limitations:
 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
   So it's possible to implement, I have a patch for LyX at hand.
 2) The versions below 1.6.0 are truncating the personal word list
   on open - effectively no personal word list available after restart.
 3) There is no persistent state 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Stephan Witt wrote:
 Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
 guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
 resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
 would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

Note that language settings are not only needed for the spellchecker, but 
ultimately also for LaTeX (babel). If you do not mark the language properly, 
you will get wrong hyphenation, which is much more crucial than the 
spellchecker. 

Jürgen

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 26.01.2011 um 15:00 schrieb Walter:

I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had to 
write this.

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.
 
 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.
 
 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.
 
 
 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)

The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:
 
It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore.
 
   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
plans to change that.

   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or comma),
   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
   possible remains unclear.
 
   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex integration
   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight or
   perhaps ever.

Alternative language is a - as I would rate it - cul-de-sac and shouldn't be 
there.
If any LyX should have a mapping of available languages to alternate languages.

As it is now the single value here is used for all text having the documents 
language
as a replacement to pass on to the spell checker.

So if you want to use English (UK) you don't need to change it here -
simply set your document language to English (UK).

The alternate language is used for all (!) languages regardless of making 
any sense. If you edit a french LyX-document and the alternate language
is set to en_GB e. g. you'll have no fun.

This is what I would rate as a bug. 

So this field is of very limited use and should be replaced by something else.
Of course something else may have an more user friendly interface too...

But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell checker -
aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the runtime-environment -
what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
runtime.

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
the language at a given position and no selection exists. That sounds
sensible...

 3. 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had 
 to write this.

Relativity...

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.

 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.

 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.


 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)

 The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.

Correct!

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:

    It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
     most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
     an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore.

   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
    - Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
    - I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
      at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
      names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
      Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
      is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

 Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
 mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
 plans to change that.

On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontwrap/
 So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
otherwise overridden.

But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.

This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

 Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

Great!

 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

 You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
 the language at a given position and no selection exists. That sounds
 sensible...

Hurrah!

 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to link
   

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello
This is a long document indeed and, unfortunately, I couldn't find the  
will to go through it all. But I should have a couple of interesting  
references regarding multilingual documents.


This has been discussed previously on the list, in the context of XeTeX  
support in LyX 2.0 SVN:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66485

Especially Daron's comments:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66547

Hope this is of help
Liviu



On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:00:56 +0100, Walter walter.stan...@gmail.com  
wrote:


(Note: Mostly this email dates from pre-Christmas December - took me  
awhile

   to post!)

(This is a bit more verbose than it should be, as I am presently stuck in
an historic colonial hill station of Tunisia, by the Algerian border, and
being winter the weather is bitter and I am therefore locked in my hotel
room with time, but no internet connection!)

Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
a spell check for the first time.

The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras,  
however

the following struck me as possible to improve.

Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.


1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt  
right

   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though  
that's

   probably my fault.)

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell'  
would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected  
format

   for the entry of a single language value probable:

It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code  
and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or  
underscore.


   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two  
problems:

- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise  
even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and  
place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese  
(+romanised

  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or  
comma),

   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
   possible remains unclear.

   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex  
integration

   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight  
or

   perhaps ever.

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell. may suffice for 95% of users.

2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails  
[*]

   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language  
Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1  
was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are  
right

   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use  
'Edit|

   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of  
multilingual

   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   solutions in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really  
solutions
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to  
link
   the manual language markup made in conjunction with a font-linked  
solution

   to the manual language markup required for spellchecking purposes.

   The TeX-world's colourful background to all this is understandable,  
and of
   course I would not suggest to fly in the face of either  
configurability
   nor tradition nor the 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

- Walter

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Walter walter.stan...@gmail.com wrote:
 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

 Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

LyX supports enchant. [1] [2]
Liviu

[1] http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/NewInLyX20#toc28
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-announce@lists.lyx.org/msg00124.html


 - Walter




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 15:16 schrieb Walter:

 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
 layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?
 
 Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

Unfortunately enchant has big drawbacks:
* missing language variety support
* not available for LyX on mac

And in fact it is only a wrapper around existing spell checkers -
just as LyX is :-)

Stephan

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 14:05 schrieb Walter:

 Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
 a spell check for the first time.
 
 The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
 the following struck me as possible to improve.
 
 Those items marked with [*] I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
 with [X] I consider a bug elsewhere.
 
 
 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document (for shame!), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
   probably my fault.)
 
 The following refers to the field Alternative language I'd guess.
 
 Correct!
 
   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
   for the entry of a single language value probable:
 
It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or 
 underscore.
 
   I tried this (en_AU), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)
 
 Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
 mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
 plans to change that.
 
 On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
 Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
 module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

 http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontwrap/
 So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
 otherwise overridden.
 
 But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
 of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
 use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

Do you have an example for such a document?

 
 But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
 checker -
 aspell e. g. accepts completely different alternative language settings as
 hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
 runtime-environment -
 what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
 And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
 runtime.
 
 This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
 there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
 available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
 known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
The focus was the management of personal word lists.

 We have support for different spell checker backends.
 All of them are able to check words, of course.
 But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
 The following table presents the results of my investigation.
 
 Feature | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
 
 check   | +  | +| +   | +
 suggest | +  | +| +   | +
 accept  | +  | +| +   | +
 insert  | +  | +| o (2)   | o (3)
 ispersonal? | o (1)  | +| -   | -
 remove  | -  | +| + (4)   | -
 
 Legend:
 + feature is supported
 - feature is not supported
 o there are limitations:
 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
   So it's possible to implement, I have a patch for LyX at hand.
 2) The versions below 1.6.0 are truncating the personal word list
   on open - effectively no personal word list available after restart.
 3) There is no persistent state 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Stephan Witt wrote:
 Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
 guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
 resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
 would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

Note that language settings are not only needed for the spellchecker, but 
ultimately also for LaTeX (babel). If you do not mark the language properly, 
you will get wrong hyphenation, which is much more crucial than the 
spellchecker. 

Jürgen

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 26.01.2011 um 15:00 schrieb Walter:

I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had to 
write this.

> Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
> a spell check for the first time.
> 
> The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
> the following struck me as possible to improve.
> 
> Those items marked with "[*]" I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
> with "[X]" I consider a bug elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
>   --
>   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
>   in my document ("for shame!"), I do not want to manually set hundreds
>   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
>   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
>   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
>   probably my fault.)

The following refers to the field "Alternative language" I'd guess.

>   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
>   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
>   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
>   for the entry of a single language value probable:
> 
>"It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
> most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
> an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore."
> 
>   I tried this ("en_AU"), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
>- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
>- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
>  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
>  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
>  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
>  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
plans to change that.

>   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or comma),
>   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
>   possible remains unclear.
> 
>   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex integration
>   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
>   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
>   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight or
>   perhaps ever.

Alternative language is a - as I would rate it - cul-de-sac and shouldn't be 
there.
If any LyX should have a mapping of available languages to alternate languages.

As it is now the single value here is used for all text having the documents 
language
as a replacement to pass on to the spell checker.

So if you want to use English (UK) you don't need to change it here -
simply set your document language to English (UK).

The alternate language is used for all (!) languages regardless of making 
any sense. If you edit a french LyX-document and the alternate language
is set to "en_GB" e. g. you'll have no fun.

This is what I would rate as a bug. 

So this field is of very limited "use" and should be replaced by something else.
Of course "something else" may have an more user friendly interface too...

But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell checker -
aspell e. g. accepts completely different "alternative" language settings as
hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the runtime-environment -
what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
runtime.

>   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
>   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like "eg: 'en_GB' for
>   aspell." may suffice for 95% of users.

Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

> 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
>   
>   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
>   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
>   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
>   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
>   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
>   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
>   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
>   tedium.

You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
the 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

> I'll try to answer this - although I surely don't have so much time you had 
> to write this.

Relativity...

>> Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
>> a spell check for the first time.
>>
>> The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
>> the following struck me as possible to improve.
>>
>> Those items marked with "[*]" I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
>> with "[X]" I consider a bug elsewhere.
>>
>>
>> 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
>>   --
>>   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
>>   in my document ("for shame!"), I do not want to manually set hundreds
>>   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
>>   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
>>   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
>>   probably my fault.)
>
> The following refers to the field "Alternative language" I'd guess.

Correct!

>>   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
>>   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
>>   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
>>   for the entry of a single language value probable:
>>
>>    "It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
>>     most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
>>     an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or underscore."
>>
>>   I tried this ("en_AU"), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
>>    - Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
>>    - I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
>>      at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
>>      names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
>>      Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
>>      is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)
>
> Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
> mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
> plans to change that.

On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html


 "So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
otherwise overridden."

But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

> But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
> checker -
> aspell e. g. accepts completely different "alternative" language settings as
> hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
> runtime-environment -
> what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
> And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
> runtime.

This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

>>   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
>>   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like "eg: 'en_GB' for
>>   aspell." may suffice for 95% of users.
>
> Until the field gets replaced or removed a tooltip may help.

Great!

>> 2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails [*]
>>   
>>   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker|
>>   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1 was
>>   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are right
>>   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
>>   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
>>   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use 'Edit|
>>   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
>>   tedium.
>
> You propose to auto extend the selection to word boundaries when setting
> the language at a given position and no selection exists. That sounds
> sensible...

Hurrah!

>> 3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
>>   ---
>>   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of multilingual
>>   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
>>   

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello
This is a long document indeed and, unfortunately, I couldn't find the  
will to go through it all. But I should have a couple of interesting  
references regarding multilingual documents.


This has been discussed previously on the list, in the context of XeTeX  
support in LyX 2.0 SVN:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66485

Especially Daron's comments:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.general/66547

Hope this is of help
Liviu



On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:00:56 +0100, Walter   
wrote:


(Note: Mostly this email dates from pre-Christmas December - took me  
awhile

   to post!)

(This is a bit more verbose than it should be, as I am presently stuck in
an historic colonial hill station of Tunisia, by the Algerian border, and
being winter the weather is bitter and I am therefore locked in my hotel
room with time, but no internet connection!)

Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
a spell check for the first time.

The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras,  
however

the following struck me as possible to improve.

Those items marked with "[*]" I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
with "[X]" I consider a bug elsewhere.


1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
   --
   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
   in my document ("for shame!"), I do not want to manually set hundreds
   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt  
right

   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though  
that's

   probably my fault.)

   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell'  
would
   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected  
format

   for the entry of a single language value probable:

"It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
 most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code  
and
 an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or  
underscore."


   I tried this ("en_AU"), and it did work.  However, there are two  
problems:

- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise  
even
  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and  
place
  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese  
(+romanised

  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)

   The method to do this (eg: separate multiple values with a space or  
comma),

   or indeed whether entering multiple values in to this field is at all
   possible remains unclear.

   Whilst the ideal route would be to add (relatively) complex  
integration

   code that auto-detected available spellcheckers, their dictionaries,
   and provided a sexy GUI for end user language selection instead of a
   mystical text field, I realise this is not going to happen overnight  
or

   perhaps ever.

   Thus, as a relatively easy half-way fix, could we please have some
   increased on-screen documentation?  Something like "eg: 'en_GB' for
   aspell." may suffice for 95% of users.

2. Right click to set spellchecker language on a highlighted word fails  
[*]

   
   It appears that when 'Tools|Preferences|Language  
Settings|Spellchecker|
   Spellcheck continuously' is set, and red-wavy (Note: LyX 2.0.0beta1  
was
   wavy, LyX 2.0.0beta3 is straight and thicker) underlined words are  
right

   clicked, there is an option to set their language for spellchecking
   purposes.  However, this does not appear to actually do anything!
   This makes it necessary for the user to select the word then use  
'Edit|

   Language|Whatever language' to actually perform the change - pointless
   tedium.

3. Wider problem of spellchecking and multilingual support
   ---
   Regarding points 1 and 2, really there is a wider problem of  
multilingual

   support being a little 'all over the place', with a bunch of different
   "solutions" in use.  In terms of LyX, none of these are really  
"solutions"
   as even with LyX 2.0beta1 it appears to be demonstrably impossible to  
link
   the manual language markup made in conjunction with a font-linked  
solution

   to the manual language markup required for spellchecking purposes.

   The TeX-world's colourful background to all this is understandable,  
and of
   course I would not suggest to fly in the face of either  
configurability
   nor 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Walter]

> This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
> there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
> available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
> known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

- Walter

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Walter  wrote:
>> This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
>> there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
>> layer
>> available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
>> known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?
>
> Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/
>
LyX supports enchant. [1] [2]
Liviu

[1] http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/NewInLyX20#toc28
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-announce@lists.lyx.org/msg00124.html


> - Walter
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 15:16 schrieb Walter:

>> This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
>> there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction 
>> layer
>> available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
>> known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?
> 
> Possible answer: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/

Unfortunately enchant has big drawbacks:
* missing language variety support
* not available for LyX on mac

And in fact it is only a wrapper around existing spell checkers -
just as LyX is :-)

Stephan

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Stephan Witt]

Am 27.01.2011 um 14:05 schrieb Walter:

>>> Whilst using LyX 2.0beta1 [since verified on LyX 2.0beta3] I recently ran
>>> a spell check for the first time.
>>> 
>>> The interface is good and no doubt an improvement on previous eras, however
>>> the following struck me as possible to improve.
>>> 
>>> Those items marked with "[*]" I consider a bug in LyX. Those items marked
>>> with "[X]" I consider a bug elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 1. Preferences|Language Settings|Spellchecker [*]
>>>   --
>>>   Fields lack a description.  Faced with having used non-US spelling
>>>   in my document ("for shame!"), I do not want to manually set hundreds
>>>   of individual words to be 'English (UK)', which using the inbuilt right
>>>   sidebar interface appears to be the default way forward.  (For some
>>>   reason, 'English (AU)' is not even an option on my system, though that's
>>>   probably my fault.)
>> 
>> The following refers to the field "Alternative language" I'd guess.
> 
> Correct!
> 
>>>   Thus driven to the preferences dialog, I was unsure of which mystical
>>>   value to enter in to the great LyX machine.  Assuming 'man aspell' would
>>>   clear it up, indeed some text was located that made the expected format
>>>   for the entry of a single language value probable:
>>> 
>>>"It follows the same format of the  LANG  environmental variable on
>>> most systems. It consists of the two letter ISO 639 language code and
>>> an optional two letter ISO 3166 country code after a dash or 
>>> underscore."
>>> 
>>>   I tried this ("en_AU"), and it did work.  However, there are two problems:
>>>- Even the first step would be a challenge for some users
>>>- I would like to add multiple values to the field, since otherwise even
>>>  at this early stage of my document still hundreds of words and place
>>>  names in French, German, Greek (+romanised Greek), Chinese (+romanised
>>>  Chinese), etc. trip up the spell checker. (Use of these languages
>>>  is frequent and scattered right throughout the document.)
>> 
>> Ok, with this use case - mixed language documents - you are requested to
>> mark the text appropriately. Here LyX does no guessing and there are no
>> plans to change that.
> 
> On the contrary, dear fellow: the opposite has already come to pass!
> Demand hath begat a plan!  One man, I understand, begat that plan: a
> module fan, Michiel Kamermans!
> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg83713.html

Ok, AFAIU this refers to the XeLaTeX engine and not to LyX.
Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

> 
> "So that fonts are *autoselected* based on UNICODE range unless
> otherwise overridden."
> 
> But alas, the user is still utterly laboured with tedious repetition
> of language specification (also text style selection, with the hack i
> use), and will remain so until LyX UI changes.

Do you have an example for such a document?

> 
>> But it can be tricky to make it right. It heavily depends on the spell 
>> checker -
>> aspell e. g. accepts completely different "alternative" language settings as
>> hunspell or apples spell checker do. And it depends on the 
>> runtime-environment -
>> what dictionaries are available for the user on the current machine.
>> And we have the feature to switch between the spell checker back ends at 
>> runtime.
> 
> This sounds ugly.  Is there any similarity between spell checking APIs?  Is
> there a cross platform, spell checking library unification / abstraction layer
> available? Would it be worth developing one? How difficult is it to detect
> known dictionaries and spell checkers on a cross-platform basis?

I'll cite my own investigation about similarity between spell checking APIs.
The focus was the management of personal word lists.

> We have support for different spell checker backends.
> All of them are able to check words, of course.
> But the capabilities with personal word lists differs horrible.
> The following table presents the results of my investigation.
> 
> Feature | aspell | native (mac) | enchant | hunspell
> 
> check   | +  | +| +   | +
> suggest | +  | +| +   | +
> accept  | +  | +| +   | +
> insert  | +  | +| o (2)   | o (3)
> ispersonal? | o (1)  | +| -   | -
> remove  | -  | +| + (4)   | -
> 
> Legend:
> + feature is supported
> - feature is not supported
> o there are limitations:
> 1) aspell has the interface to enumerate the personal word list.
>   So it's possible to implement, I have a 

Re: Subject: LyX 2.0beta3: Spell Checking + Multilingualism

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Stephan Witt wrote:
> Of course, if someone wants to develop a solid algorithm for language
> guessing and can convince the LyX developer community of it and has the
> resources to implement and test it - it may happen. Another option
> would be to have a spell checker backend including this feature.

Note that language settings are not only needed for the spellchecker, but 
ultimately also for LaTeX (babel). If you do not mark the language properly, 
you will get wrong hyphenation, which is much more crucial than the 
spellchecker. 

Jürgen

Re: subject

[Andre Poenitz]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 01:42:10PM +0900, Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
 I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
 have another question about this Lyx ML.
 
 Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

Because this is generally a bad idea. Therer are pointers in the
archives explaining this.

 Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.

Which means that users cant' use the Reply-To: header thmenselves anymore
because mailing lists mutilate them.

 ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
 as Reply-to.

No.

Just use your email client's 'Reply to list' feature when replying.

Andre'

Re: subject

[Andre Poenitz]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 01:42:10PM +0900, Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
 I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
 have another question about this Lyx ML.
 
 Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

Because this is generally a bad idea. Therer are pointers in the
archives explaining this.

 Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.

Which means that users cant' use the Reply-To: header thmenselves anymore
because mailing lists mutilate them.

 ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
 as Reply-to.

No.

Just use your email client's 'Reply to list' feature when replying.

Andre'

Re: subject

[Andre Poenitz]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 01:42:10PM +0900, Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
> I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
> have another question about this Lyx ML.
> 
> Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?

Because this is generally a bad idea. Therer are pointers in the
archives explaining this.

> Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.

Which means that users cant' use the Reply-To: header thmenselves anymore
because mailing lists mutilate them.

> ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
> as Reply-to.

No.

Just use your email client's 'Reply to list' feature when replying.

Andre'

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:

 Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?
 
 Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
 ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML;
 lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set as
 Reply-to.

No, it should not. For reasons see here:

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list very
easily. For example, I press R if I want a personal reply, and L if I want
a reply to the list in kmail.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ride]

Hi Georg

Thank you for your commnets.
There are a lot of things to know.

Takashi Shiihara

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my mail
in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring having to
make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the CC, the cut
and paste over the original sender. A reply-to field would ease up my
comments on this list.

On 3/22/06, Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Georg

 Thank you for your commnets.
 There are a lot of things to know.

 Takashi Shiihara




--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Julio Rojas wrote:

 Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my
 mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring
 having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the
 CC, the cut and paste over the original sender.

That is a gmail problem. Complain to google, or better use the gmane news
interface instead (http://gmane.org, the group name is
gmane.editors.lyx.general)

 A reply-to field would 
 ease up my comments on this list.

And would make them more complicated for others. Please read the link I
gave.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ingo Klöcker]

Am Mittwoch, 22. März 2006 09:59 schrieb Julio Rojas:
 Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have
 my mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really
 boring having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users
 account in the CC, the cut and paste over the original sender. A
 reply-to field would ease up my comments on this list.

Simply ask Google to add a Reply-to-List functionality. If they deny 
your wish then you'll either have to rethink your decision or you'll 
have to live with your decision.

Regards,
Ingo


pgpHqNQMiIahX.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: subject

[Karsten Heymann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
| Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Thanx for the link... I read it and have absolutly all the sens in the
world. I've already filled a suggestion form in Gmail.

On 3/22/06, Karsten Heymann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Georg Baum schrieb:
 | Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
 | Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

 | Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
 | very easily.

 Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
 Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
 bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

 the relevant bug report has quite some history:
 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
 Did I say *sigh* yet?

 Yours,
 Karsten
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
 p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
 =pDzx
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-




--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

Karsten Heymann wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
| Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


I notice that the Mac version of Outlook Express allows
one to mange this, but not the Windows version. I searched
for a free 'remove duplicate email' for Outlook Express and
couldn't find one. I did find a free one for Thunderbird,
so one can fairly automatically deal with the symptom of
getting two replies, one from the list and one sent to you,
by running remove duplicate emails once a week.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:

 Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?
 
 Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
 ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML;
 lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set as
 Reply-to.

No, it should not. For reasons see here:

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list very
easily. For example, I press R if I want a personal reply, and L if I want
a reply to the list in kmail.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ride]

Hi Georg

Thank you for your commnets.
There are a lot of things to know.

Takashi Shiihara

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my mail
in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring having to
make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the CC, the cut
and paste over the original sender. A reply-to field would ease up my
comments on this list.

On 3/22/06, Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Georg

 Thank you for your commnets.
 There are a lot of things to know.

 Takashi Shiihara




--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Julio Rojas wrote:

 Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my
 mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring
 having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the
 CC, the cut and paste over the original sender.

That is a gmail problem. Complain to google, or better use the gmane news
interface instead (http://gmane.org, the group name is
gmane.editors.lyx.general)

 A reply-to field would 
 ease up my comments on this list.

And would make them more complicated for others. Please read the link I
gave.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ingo Klöcker]

Am Mittwoch, 22. März 2006 09:59 schrieb Julio Rojas:
 Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have
 my mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really
 boring having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users
 account in the CC, the cut and paste over the original sender. A
 reply-to field would ease up my comments on this list.

Simply ask Google to add a Reply-to-List functionality. If they deny 
your wish then you'll either have to rethink your decision or you'll 
have to live with your decision.

Regards,
Ingo


pgpHqNQMiIahX.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: subject

[Karsten Heymann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
| Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Thanx for the link... I read it and have absolutly all the sens in the
world. I've already filled a suggestion form in Gmail.

On 3/22/06, Karsten Heymann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Georg Baum schrieb:
 | Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
 | Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

 | Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
 | very easily.

 Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
 Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
 bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

 the relevant bug report has quite some history:
 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
 Did I say *sigh* yet?

 Yours,
 Karsten
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
 p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
 =pDzx
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-




--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

Karsten Heymann wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
| Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
Display Mailing List Headers extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to Reply to all and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


I notice that the Mac version of Outlook Express allows
one to mange this, but not the Windows version. I searched
for a free 'remove duplicate email' for Outlook Express and
couldn't find one. I did find a free one for Thunderbird,
so one can fairly automatically deal with the symptom of
getting two replies, one from the list and one sent to you,
by running remove duplicate emails once a week.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:

> Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?
> 
> Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
> ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML;
> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set as
> Reply-to.

No, it should not. For reasons see here:

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list very
easily. For example, I press R if I want a personal reply, and L if I want
a reply to the list in kmail.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ride]

Hi Georg

Thank you for your commnets.
There are a lot of things to know.

Takashi Shiihara

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my mail
in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring having to
make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the CC, the cut
and paste over the original sender. A reply-to field would ease up my
comments on this list.

On 3/22/06, Ride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Georg
>
> Thank you for your commnets.
> There are a lot of things to know.
>
> Takashi Shiihara
>



--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Georg Baum]

Julio Rojas wrote:

> Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have my
> mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really boring
> having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users account in the
> CC, the cut and paste over the original sender.

That is a gmail problem. Complain to google, or better use the gmane news
interface instead (http://gmane.org, the group name is
gmane.editors.lyx.general)

> A reply-to field would 
> ease up my comments on this list.

And would make them more complicated for others. Please read the link I
gave.


Georg

Re: subject

[Ingo Klöcker]

Am Mittwoch, 22. März 2006 09:59 schrieb Julio Rojas:
> Well, I don't use clients, because I use gmail and love not to have
> my mail in my computer, thou I use it's web interface. It's really
> boring having to make a reply-to-all in order to get the lyx-users
> account in the CC, the cut and paste over the original sender. A
> reply-to field would ease up my comments on this list.

Simply ask Google to add a "Reply-to-List" functionality. If they deny 
your wish then you'll either have to rethink your decision or you'll 
have to live with your decision.

Regards,
Ingo


pgpHqNQMiIahX.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: subject

[Karsten Heymann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
|> Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
"Display Mailing List Headers" extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to "Reply to all" and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: subject

[Julio Rojas]

Thanx for the link... I read it and have absolutly all the sens in the
world. I've already filled a suggestion form in Gmail.

On 3/22/06, Karsten Heymann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Georg Baum schrieb:
> | Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
> |> Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?
>
> | Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
> | very easily.
>
> Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
> "Display Mailing List Headers" extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
> bound to "Reply to all" and manual editing. *sigh*
>
> the relevant bug report has quite some history:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
> Did I say *sigh* yet?
>
> Yours,
> Karsten
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
> p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
> =pDzx
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>



--
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

Karsten Heymann wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Georg Baum schrieb:
| Ride_Ride_Ride wrote:
|> Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?

| Any decent email-client will allow you to post a message to the list
| very easily.

Unfortunately Thunderbird is not a decent MUA in this respect. The
"Display Mailing List Headers" extension helps a bit, but in fact you're
bound to "Reply to all" and manual editing. *sigh*

the relevant bug report has quite some history:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45715.
Did I say *sigh* yet?

Yours,
Karsten
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEITSTKLkXHxOeP2ERAoU6AJ904+h3xQ7KdW5f4LNEzGd6s8RVMgCglQTm
p9xILzXK/fAZlgyld64FNu4=
=pDzx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


I notice that the Mac version of Outlook Express allows
one to mange this, but not the Windows version. I searched
for a free 'remove duplicate email' for Outlook Express and
couldn't find one. I did find a free one for Thunderbird,
so one can fairly automatically deal with the symptom of
getting two replies, one from the list and one sent to you,
by running remove duplicate emails once a week.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

- Original Message - 
From: Ride_Ride_Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: subject



Hi everyone

Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.

Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,

I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.

Takashi Shiihara from Japan.



Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]

Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:

Apply this rule after the message arrives
Where the message body contains 'lyx' 
Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)


This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
would, but should work quite well in the meantime.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Stacia Hartleben]

I just make a rule that says all mail to lyx-users@lists.lyx.org goes
in a certain folder (or in the case of gmail, is archived and labled
with LyX). This works fine for me and catches all the mail.

On 3/21/06, Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: Ride_Ride_Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
 Subject: subject


  Hi everyone
 
  Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.
 
  Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
  Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,
 
  I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
  that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.
 
  Takashi Shiihara from Japan.
 

 Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]

 Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:

 Apply this rule after the message arrives
 Where the message body contains 'lyx'
 Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)

 This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
 would, but should work quite well in the meantime.

 Regards,
 Stephen

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Am Wed, 22. March 2006 02:49 schrieb Ride_Ride_Ride:
 Hi everyone

 Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.

 Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
 Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,

 I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
 that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.

 Takashi Shiihara from Japan.

You are using Thunderbird [1] so it might be a good idea to add a filter for 
this list. (And maybe also for other lists you are subscribed to)

It will need some further configuration of thunderbird. But I will bet if you 
use filtering of incomming emails to folders for only a short time you will 
never want to miss this. And may be you will also find it funny when you see 
such questions like yours then.

So please do yourself a faivour and configure and use filters for your 
subscribed mailing lists (and for your fellows, sweethearts, whatsoever :)
 

For this:
- add a new local folder to your list of folders
  right click on 'local folders' and choose 'new folder'
  give it a usefull name, e.g. 'LyX'
- add a filter rule 
 · from the thunderbird menu choose 'Extras' - 'Filters'
 · at the top there is an entry 'filter for...' 
   right of this you will see a drop down button
 · click this button and select the mail account for which you want to add a
   filter. 
It should be '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' if you prefer to work with
imap mail folders. 
If you prefer using to download your email via a pop account it should be
'local folders'
 · now select the 'New...' button at the right of the window
 · give a 'Filter Name' to this new filter, e.g. 'lyx-users'
 · push the drop down button which shows 'subject' and select 'customize' (it 
   is the last entry at the bottom of the list)
 · now fill in 'List-Post' and click the OK button [2]
 ·  you are back at the 'edit filter' window
 · select the drop down button 'subject' again and choose 'List-Post'
 · the drop down list right of 'List-Post' should show 'contains' (the first
   entry at the top of the drop down list) If not select it.
 · Fill in 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org' in the input box at the right.
 · now choose an action to tell the filter what to do if a mail with the
   header 'List-Post' and 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org'  comes in.
   Choose 'move ... to' (... should be mail or news, according to the english
   translation, sorry my thunderbird speaks german ;-)
 · right of this choose the button to place where to put the mail in.
   Choose 'LyX', this is the name of the folder we added at the first
   beginning.
 · click the 'OK' button
 · you are back to the 'Filter' window
 · click on the bottom right button 'jetzt ausfuehren' in german, in english
   it should be a term saying 'make use of the filter now'
From now on all emails from lyx-users list shoud immediately go to your local 
folder 'LyX'.

You will find some more input including screenshots on how to use filters:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Filters_%28Thunderbird%29
http://opensourcearticles.com/thunderbird_15/english/part_07


BTW. Using filters and sorting emails to certain folders or virtual folders 
(e.g. by evolution) is the one and only state of the art to handle a huge 
ammount of lists and postings.

Adding pseudo subjects like [Lyx users ML: 01] as you mentioned is a bad 
habbit which shows that the subscribers and often also the adminstrators of a 
mailing list are on a not high skill level (quite close to poor). 
And sooner or later it will drive you round the bend. ;-).

It is a bit like a companies post office wich tags all incomming (snail) mail 
with post-it lables and then having all this (may be thousands) mails in a 
single carton box. 

No one would do so, not if he or she is not close to brain dead :-))

It's state of the art since the early beginning of mail communication to sort 
mail in folders. And everyone knows this, but by using email a lot of people 
seem to forget such fundametal attainments. 
Funny, isn't it. ;-)


regards,
Thomas

[1] So says one of the headers of your email:
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201)
[2] What we've done so far is adding a new email header as a filter criteria.
The lyx-user email list uses 'List-Post'. List-Post is one header which is
sent by the lyx mail server. It says:
'List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
You will see all the headers by choosing 'View' - 'Headers' - 'All' from
the thunderbird menu.
The header 'List-Post' is not used by all mailing list servers but it is
one of the most used one. If you have a closer look to the header fields
you should always find a header which contains the term 'list'. So at
least if the list manager knows how to do the job. E.G. 'X-Mailing-List'
is another common used mailing list header.

Re: subject

[Ride_Ride_Ride]

Hi Thomas

Thank you for your detailed coments.
I'm glad to know your advice.

I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
have another question about this Lyx ML.


Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
as Reply-to.


Best regards,

T Shiihara

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Op Won., 22. Mart 2006 04:17 schriev T. Shiihara:
 Hi Stacia and Stephen

 Thank you for your comments.
 Actually I use mail filtering.
May I ask, you really use filters to sort incoming emails to local folders?
Sorting incomming emails from the LyX list to a folder LyX for example?

Or do you just use filters in the meaning of highlighting mails by subjects?


 But I think mail subject would be better when it's easy to recognize.
 The reason I feel present subject style of this ML isn't easy to
 recognize may be due to the fact that English isn't my native language.
I would think that english isn't the native language of many people on this 
list. So the problem you are facing is the same for us, at least for me. 
And I'm a non native speaker when I am more than 50km from home due to the 
fact that frisian [1] is spoken only in a local region here in germany. 
So I'm a non-native speaking native german. :-))

regards,
Thomas


[1] Frisian is a regional language spoken in the coastal region of the dutch 
sea from the island Terschelling in the Netherlands over the coastal region 
of northern Germany up to the island Ameland in Denmark.

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

- Original Message - 
From: Ride_Ride_Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: subject



Hi everyone

Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.

Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,

I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.

Takashi Shiihara from Japan.



Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]

Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:

Apply this rule after the message arrives
Where the message body contains 'lyx' 
Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)


This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
would, but should work quite well in the meantime.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Stacia Hartleben]

I just make a rule that says all mail to lyx-users@lists.lyx.org goes
in a certain folder (or in the case of gmail, is archived and labled
with LyX). This works fine for me and catches all the mail.

On 3/21/06, Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: Ride_Ride_Ride [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
 Subject: subject


  Hi everyone
 
  Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.
 
  Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
  Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,
 
  I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
  that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.
 
  Takashi Shiihara from Japan.
 

 Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]

 Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:

 Apply this rule after the message arrives
 Where the message body contains 'lyx'
 Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)

 This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
 would, but should work quite well in the meantime.

 Regards,
 Stephen

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Am Wed, 22. March 2006 02:49 schrieb Ride_Ride_Ride:
 Hi everyone

 Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.

 Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
 Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,

 I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
 that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.

 Takashi Shiihara from Japan.

You are using Thunderbird [1] so it might be a good idea to add a filter for 
this list. (And maybe also for other lists you are subscribed to)

It will need some further configuration of thunderbird. But I will bet if you 
use filtering of incomming emails to folders for only a short time you will 
never want to miss this. And may be you will also find it funny when you see 
such questions like yours then.

So please do yourself a faivour and configure and use filters for your 
subscribed mailing lists (and for your fellows, sweethearts, whatsoever :)
 

For this:
- add a new local folder to your list of folders
  right click on 'local folders' and choose 'new folder'
  give it a usefull name, e.g. 'LyX'
- add a filter rule 
 · from the thunderbird menu choose 'Extras' - 'Filters'
 · at the top there is an entry 'filter for...' 
   right of this you will see a drop down button
 · click this button and select the mail account for which you want to add a
   filter. 
It should be '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' if you prefer to work with
imap mail folders. 
If you prefer using to download your email via a pop account it should be
'local folders'
 · now select the 'New...' button at the right of the window
 · give a 'Filter Name' to this new filter, e.g. 'lyx-users'
 · push the drop down button which shows 'subject' and select 'customize' (it 
   is the last entry at the bottom of the list)
 · now fill in 'List-Post' and click the OK button [2]
 ·  you are back at the 'edit filter' window
 · select the drop down button 'subject' again and choose 'List-Post'
 · the drop down list right of 'List-Post' should show 'contains' (the first
   entry at the top of the drop down list) If not select it.
 · Fill in 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org' in the input box at the right.
 · now choose an action to tell the filter what to do if a mail with the
   header 'List-Post' and 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org'  comes in.
   Choose 'move ... to' (... should be mail or news, according to the english
   translation, sorry my thunderbird speaks german ;-)
 · right of this choose the button to place where to put the mail in.
   Choose 'LyX', this is the name of the folder we added at the first
   beginning.
 · click the 'OK' button
 · you are back to the 'Filter' window
 · click on the bottom right button 'jetzt ausfuehren' in german, in english
   it should be a term saying 'make use of the filter now'
From now on all emails from lyx-users list shoud immediately go to your local 
folder 'LyX'.

You will find some more input including screenshots on how to use filters:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Filters_%28Thunderbird%29
http://opensourcearticles.com/thunderbird_15/english/part_07


BTW. Using filters and sorting emails to certain folders or virtual folders 
(e.g. by evolution) is the one and only state of the art to handle a huge 
ammount of lists and postings.

Adding pseudo subjects like [Lyx users ML: 01] as you mentioned is a bad 
habbit which shows that the subscribers and often also the adminstrators of a 
mailing list are on a not high skill level (quite close to poor). 
And sooner or later it will drive you round the bend. ;-).

It is a bit like a companies post office wich tags all incomming (snail) mail 
with post-it lables and then having all this (may be thousands) mails in a 
single carton box. 

No one would do so, not if he or she is not close to brain dead :-))

It's state of the art since the early beginning of mail communication to sort 
mail in folders. And everyone knows this, but by using email a lot of people 
seem to forget such fundametal attainments. 
Funny, isn't it. ;-)


regards,
Thomas

[1] So says one of the headers of your email:
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201)
[2] What we've done so far is adding a new email header as a filter criteria.
The lyx-user email list uses 'List-Post'. List-Post is one header which is
sent by the lyx mail server. It says:
'List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
You will see all the headers by choosing 'View' - 'Headers' - 'All' from
the thunderbird menu.
The header 'List-Post' is not used by all mailing list servers but it is
one of the most used one. If you have a closer look to the header fields
you should always find a header which contains the term 'list'. So at
least if the list manager knows how to do the job. E.G. 'X-Mailing-List'
is another common used mailing list header.

Re: subject

[Ride_Ride_Ride]

Hi Thomas

Thank you for your detailed coments.
I'm glad to know your advice.

I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
have another question about this Lyx ML.


Why this ML doesn't use Reply-to?

Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
as Reply-to.


Best regards,

T Shiihara

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Op Won., 22. Mart 2006 04:17 schriev T. Shiihara:
 Hi Stacia and Stephen

 Thank you for your comments.
 Actually I use mail filtering.
May I ask, you really use filters to sort incoming emails to local folders?
Sorting incomming emails from the LyX list to a folder LyX for example?

Or do you just use filters in the meaning of highlighting mails by subjects?


 But I think mail subject would be better when it's easy to recognize.
 The reason I feel present subject style of this ML isn't easy to
 recognize may be due to the fact that English isn't my native language.
I would think that english isn't the native language of many people on this 
list. So the problem you are facing is the same for us, at least for me. 
And I'm a non native speaker when I am more than 50km from home due to the 
fact that frisian [1] is spoken only in a local region here in germany. 
So I'm a non-native speaking native german. :-))

regards,
Thomas


[1] Frisian is a regional language spoken in the coastal region of the dutch 
sea from the island Terschelling in the Netherlands over the coastal region 
of northern Germany up to the island Ameland in Denmark.

Re: subject

[Stephen Harris]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ride_Ride_Ride" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: subject



Hi everyone

Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.

Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,

I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.

Takashi Shiihara from Japan.



Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]

Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:

Apply this rule after the message arrives
Where the message body contains 'lyx' 
Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)


This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
would, but should work quite well in the meantime.

Regards,
Stephen

Re: subject

[Stacia Hartleben]

I just make a rule that says all mail to lyx-users@lists.lyx.org goes
in a certain folder (or in the case of gmail, is archived and labled
with LyX). This works fine for me and catches all the mail.

On 3/21/06, Stephen Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ride_Ride_Ride" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: subject
>
>
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.
> >
> > Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
> > Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,
> >
> > I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
> > that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.
> >
> > Takashi Shiihara from Japan.
> >
>
> Yes, the Subject: could be prefixed with [LyX-user]
>
> Or you can use an email client which supports email rules:
>
> Apply this rule after the message arrives
> Where the message body contains 'lyx'
> Move it to the LyX folder (create a LyX folder first)
>
> This method might not capture every email like Subject: [LyX-user]
> would, but should work quite well in the meantime.
>
> Regards,
> Stephen
>

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Am Wed, 22. March 2006 02:49 schrieb Ride_Ride_Ride:
> Hi everyone
>
> Recently, I joined this Lyx ML.
>
> Why this ML doesn't use a title, intuitively recognized as Lyx ML mail.
> Such as, [Lyx users ML: 01],,,
>
> I receive many mails, almost drowning. I need easy title to recognize
> that this mail belongs to Lyx ML.
>
> Takashi Shiihara from Japan.

You are using Thunderbird [1] so it might be a good idea to add a filter for 
this list. (And maybe also for other lists you are subscribed to)

It will need some further configuration of thunderbird. But I will bet if you 
use filtering of incomming emails to folders for only a short time you will 
never want to miss this. And may be you will also find it funny when you see 
such questions like yours then.

So please do yourself a faivour and configure and use filters for your 
subscribed mailing lists (and for your fellows, sweethearts, whatsoever :)
 

For this:
- add a new local folder to your list of folders
  right click on 'local folders' and choose 'new folder'
  give it a usefull name, e.g. 'LyX'
- add a filter rule 
 · from the thunderbird menu choose 'Extras' -> 'Filters'
 · at the top there is an entry 'filter for...' 
   right of this you will see a drop down button
 · click this button and select the mail account for which you want to add a
   filter. 
It should be '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' if you prefer to work with
imap mail folders. 
If you prefer using to download your email via a pop account it should be
'local folders'
 · now select the 'New...' button at the right of the window
 · give a 'Filter Name' to this new filter, e.g. 'lyx-users'
 · push the drop down button which shows 'subject' and select 'customize' (it 
   is the last entry at the bottom of the list)
 · now fill in 'List-Post' and click the OK button [2]
 ·  you are back at the 'edit filter' window
 · select the drop down button 'subject' again and choose 'List-Post'
 · the drop down list right of 'List-Post' should show 'contains' (the first
   entry at the top of the drop down list) If not select it.
 · Fill in 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org' in the input box at the right.
 · now choose an action to tell the filter what to do if a mail with the
   header 'List-Post' and 'lyx-users@lists.lyx.org'  comes in.
   Choose 'move ... to' (... should be mail or news, according to the english
   translation, sorry my thunderbird speaks german ;-)
 · right of this choose the button to place where to put the mail in.
   Choose 'LyX', this is the name of the folder we added at the first
   beginning.
 · click the 'OK' button
 · you are back to the 'Filter' window
 · click on the bottom right button 'jetzt ausfuehren' in german, in english
   it should be a term saying 'make use of the filter now'
From now on all emails from lyx-users list shoud immediately go to your local 
folder 'LyX'.

You will find some more input including screenshots on how to use filters:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Filters_%28Thunderbird%29
http://opensourcearticles.com/thunderbird_15/english/part_07


BTW. Using filters and sorting emails to certain folders or virtual folders 
(e.g. by evolution) is the one and only state of the art to handle a huge 
ammount of lists and postings.

Adding pseudo subjects like [Lyx users ML: 01] as you mentioned is a bad 
habbit which shows that the subscribers and often also the adminstrators of a 
mailing list are on a not high skill level (quite close to poor). 
And sooner or later it will drive you round the bend. ;-).

It is a bit like a companies post office wich tags all incomming (snail) mail 
with post-it lables and then having all this (may be thousands) mails in a 
single carton box. 

No one would do so, not if he or she is not close to brain dead :-))

It's state of the art since the early beginning of mail communication to sort 
mail in folders. And everyone knows this, but by using email a lot of people 
seem to forget such fundametal attainments. 
Funny, isn't it. ;-)


regards,
Thomas

[1] So says one of the headers of your email:
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201)
[2] What we've done so far is adding a new email header as a filter criteria.
The lyx-user email list uses 'List-Post'. List-Post is one header which is
sent by the lyx mail server. It says:
'List-Post: '
You will see all the headers by choosing 'View' -> 'Headers' -> 'All' from
the thunderbird menu.
The header 'List-Post' is not used by all mailing list servers but it is
one of the most used one. If you have a closer look to the header fields
you should always find a header which contains the term 'list'. So at
least if the list manager knows how to do the job. E.G. 'X-Mailing-List'
is another common used mailing list header.

Re: subject

[Ride_Ride_Ride]

Hi Thomas

Thank you for your detailed coments.
I'm glad to know your advice.

I'm sorry that my question(s) is not associated with Lyx itself, but I 
have another question about this Lyx ML.


Why this ML doesn't use "Reply-to"?

Japanese ML which I belong to is often use Reply-to.
ML adress, in the case of Lyx ML; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org, should be set 
as Reply-to.


Best regards,

T Shiihara

Re: subject

[lyx-list]

Op Won., 22. Mart 2006 04:17 schriev T. Shiihara:
> Hi Stacia and Stephen
>
> Thank you for your comments.
> Actually I use mail filtering.
May I ask, you really use filters to sort incoming emails to local folders?
Sorting incomming emails from the LyX list to a folder LyX for example?

Or do you just use filters in the meaning of highlighting mails by subjects?

>
> But I think mail subject would be better when it's easy to recognize.
> The reason I feel present subject style of this ML isn't easy to
> recognize may be due to the fact that English isn't my native language.
I would think that english isn't the native language of many people on this 
list. So the problem you are facing is the same for us, at least for me. 
And I'm a non native speaker when I am more than 50km from home due to the 
fact that frisian [1] is spoken only in a local region here in germany. 
So I'm a non-native speaking native german. :-))

regards,
Thomas


[1] Frisian is a regional language spoken in the coastal region of the dutch 
sea from the island Terschelling in the Netherlands over the coastal region 
of northern Germany up to the island Ameland in Denmark.

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Helge Hafting]

Robert Neumann wrote:


Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


 


\vspace*{\fill}
   



 


before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
   



it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
 

Are the upper and lower margins reasonable?  Try putting some text 
before the first fill and after the last, to see exactly where the 
margins are. The two \fill's should always center things perfectly 
between them.


Helge Hafting

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Helge Hafting]

Robert Neumann wrote:


Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


 


\vspace*{\fill}
   



 


before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
   



it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
 

Are the upper and lower margins reasonable?  Try putting some text 
before the first fill and after the last, to see exactly where the 
margins are. The two \fill's should always center things perfectly 
between them.


Helge Hafting

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Helge Hafting]

Robert Neumann wrote:


Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


 


\vspace*{\fill}
   



 


before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
   



it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
 

Are the upper and lower margins reasonable?  Try putting some text 
before the first fill and after the last, to see exactly where the 
margins are. The two \fill's should always center things perfectly 
between them.


Helge Hafting

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Robert Neumann]

Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


\vspace*{\fill}

before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
 
it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Geoffrey Lloyd]

Well it works as you want if you press return after the ERT before typing - 
honestly
- Original Message - 
From: Robert Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)



Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



\vspace*{\fill}



before and after you text and it will align it centrally.


it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.

right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Todd Denniston]

Robert Neumann wrote:
 
 Precedence: fm-user
 
 \vspace*{\fill}
 
 before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
 
 it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
 page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
 right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
 
 Robert
Also check out Juergen Spitzmueller's email (as it is easier to see what is
going on if you use LyX's builtin), but if you want it centered verticaly
you need to put the \vspace*{\fill} both above AND BELOW the thing(s) you
want to center.

-- 
Todd Denniston
Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) 
Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Robert Neumann]

Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


\vspace*{\fill}

before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
 
it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Geoffrey Lloyd]

Well it works as you want if you press return after the ERT before typing - 
honestly
- Original Message - 
From: Robert Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)



Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



\vspace*{\fill}



before and after you text and it will align it centrally.


it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.

right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Todd Denniston]

Robert Neumann wrote:
 
 Precedence: fm-user
 
 \vspace*{\fill}
 
 before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
 
 it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
 page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
 right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
 
 Robert
Also check out Juergen Spitzmueller's email (as it is easier to see what is
going on if you use LyX's builtin), but if you want it centered verticaly
you need to put the \vspace*{\fill} both above AND BELOW the thing(s) you
want to center.

-- 
Todd Denniston
Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) 
Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Robert Neumann]

Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>\vspace*{\fill}

>before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
 
it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the page 
but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Geoffrey Lloyd]

Well it works as you want if you press return after the ERT before typing - 
honestly
- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Neumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)



Precedence: fm-user
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



\vspace*{\fill}



before and after you text and it will align it centrally.


it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.

right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...

Robert

Re: Subject: vertical alignment (center text vertically)

[Todd Denniston]

Robert Neumann wrote:
> 
> Precedence: fm-user
> 
> >\vspace*{\fill}
> 
> >before and after you text and it will align it centrally.
> 
> it works so far that the bottom of the first line is at the center of the 
> page but the text itself is on the lower half of the page.
> right now I'm experimenting with a parbox...
> 
> Robert
Also check out Juergen Spitzmueller's email (as it is easier to see what is
going on if you use LyX's builtin), but if you want it centered verticaly
you need to put the \vspace*{\fill} both above AND BELOW the thing(s) you
want to center.

-- 
Todd Denniston
Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) 
Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Mercredi 28 Août 2002 23:53, Udo Müller a écrit :
 When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
 with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
 needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
 So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
 /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
 /usr/lib.

I have the same problem, on my system there are the files
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3
The two last are symlink to the first, so I made a symlink called 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 that point to 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so and forced the install. It work 
fine.
Of course the recompilation is the good solution and this is just a hack 
that may not work.

-- 
Renaud Michel

Il ne suffit pas de dire : je me suis trompe ;
il faut dire comment on s'est trompe.

-- Claude Bernard

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Olivier Ripoll]

Udo Müller wrote:

 When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
 with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
 needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
 So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
 /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
 /usr/lib.

 The result was the same, nothing worked, as I
 installed it against the advice of RPM. Has anybody a
 solution or does anybody happend the same problem?

 Greetings from Berlin, Udo


I had some similar problem on my Mandrake 8.2.
rpm complained about not having this libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 but this
library was actually present on my system in /usr/lib where locate could
find it (and ls too).
So I forced with --nodeps. LyX seems to work (I did this yesterday, so I
haven't had much time to test)

I would think it's the rpm package that has a problem.
(or maybe I should rpm -rebuilddb)

Regards,

Olivier.

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

 Jose == =?iso-8859-15?q?Jos=E9=20Ab=EDlio=20Oliveira=20Matos?=  iso-8859-15 
writes:

Jose Jean-Marc, I have recompiled lyx-1.2.1 for redhat 7.3 and xforms
Jose 0.89. Can I upload it to ftp.lyx.org?

I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

JMarc

Re: Recompiling lyx on RH 7.3 (was Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 08:49:51AM -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
 I'm willing, unable!
 
 I have gcc3-3.0.4 for c++. Is there a known problem there? rebuild ends:

Change the offending line to

return os.str().c_str();

and/or

  ./configure  --without-included-string

 I'm good at C and Java, but don't know any C++ so don't even understand 
 the error message.

Even if you did it is not obvious that LyX's string is sometimes not
std::string...

Andre'

PS: Please quote only the relevant parts of the message you are responding
to. People who need the full message can go to the archives. And please
write _below_ the parts you are quoting as it is easier to read top-down
(context, then your remark) than vice versa.

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson)

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[José Abílio Oliveira Matos]

On Thursday 29 August 2002 14:58, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

 I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
 better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
 using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

  Ok it should be lyx-1.2.1-1rh73-xforms089.i386.rpm, and the present one 
should be renamed lyx-1.2.1-1rh62-xforms088.i386.rpm

 JMarc

-- 
José Abílio

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Mercredi 28 Août 2002 23:53, Udo Müller a écrit :
 When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
 with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
 needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
 So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
 /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
 /usr/lib.

I have the same problem, on my system there are the files
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3
The two last are symlink to the first, so I made a symlink called 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 that point to 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so and forced the install. It work 
fine.
Of course the recompilation is the good solution and this is just a hack 
that may not work.

-- 
Renaud Michel

Il ne suffit pas de dire : je me suis trompe ;
il faut dire comment on s'est trompe.

-- Claude Bernard

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Olivier Ripoll]

Udo Müller wrote:

 When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
 with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
 needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
 So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
 /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
 /usr/lib.

 The result was the same, nothing worked, as I
 installed it against the advice of RPM. Has anybody a
 solution or does anybody happend the same problem?

 Greetings from Berlin, Udo


I had some similar problem on my Mandrake 8.2.
rpm complained about not having this libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 but this
library was actually present on my system in /usr/lib where locate could
find it (and ls too).
So I forced with --nodeps. LyX seems to work (I did this yesterday, so I
haven't had much time to test)

I would think it's the rpm package that has a problem.
(or maybe I should rpm -rebuilddb)

Regards,

Olivier.

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

 Jose == =?iso-8859-15?q?Jos=E9=20Ab=EDlio=20Oliveira=20Matos?=  iso-8859-15 
writes:

Jose Jean-Marc, I have recompiled lyx-1.2.1 for redhat 7.3 and xforms
Jose 0.89. Can I upload it to ftp.lyx.org?

I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

JMarc

Re: Recompiling lyx on RH 7.3 (was Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 08:49:51AM -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
 I'm willing, unable!
 
 I have gcc3-3.0.4 for c++. Is there a known problem there? rebuild ends:

Change the offending line to

return os.str().c_str();

and/or

  ./configure  --without-included-string

 I'm good at C and Java, but don't know any C++ so don't even understand 
 the error message.

Even if you did it is not obvious that LyX's string is sometimes not
std::string...

Andre'

PS: Please quote only the relevant parts of the message you are responding
to. People who need the full message can go to the archives. And please
write _below_ the parts you are quoting as it is easier to read top-down
(context, then your remark) than vice versa.

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson)

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[José Abílio Oliveira Matos]

On Thursday 29 August 2002 14:58, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

 I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
 better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
 using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

  Ok it should be lyx-1.2.1-1rh73-xforms089.i386.rpm, and the present one 
should be renamed lyx-1.2.1-1rh62-xforms088.i386.rpm

 JMarc

-- 
José Abílio

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Mercredi 28 Août 2002 23:53, Udo Müller a écrit :
> When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
> with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
> needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
> So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
> /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
> /usr/lib.

I have the same problem, on my system there are the files
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3
The two last are symlink to the first, so I made a symlink called 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 that point to 
/usr/lib/libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so and forced the install. It work 
fine.
Of course the recompilation is the good solution and this is just a hack 
that may not work.

-- 
Renaud Michel

Il ne suffit pas de dire : je me suis trompe ;
il faut dire comment on s'est trompe.

-- Claude Bernard

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Olivier Ripoll]

Udo Müller wrote:

> When I tried to install the new version of LyX,1.2.1
> with RPM, it was impossible, because RPM told me, it
> needs libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3 to work.
> So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
> /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
> /usr/lib.
>
> The result was the same, nothing worked, as I
> installed it against the advice of RPM. Has anybody a
> solution or does anybody happend the same problem?
>
> Greetings from Berlin, Udo
>

I had some similar problem on my Mandrake 8.2.
rpm complained about not having this "libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3" but this
library was actually present on my system in /usr/lib where locate could
find it (and ls too).
So I forced with --nodeps. LyX seems to work (I did this yesterday, so I
haven't had much time to test)

I would think it's the rpm package that has a problem.
(or maybe I should rpm -rebuilddb)

Regards,

Olivier.

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

> "Jose" == =?iso-8859-15?q?Jos=E9=20Ab=EDlio=20Oliveira=20Matos?=   
>writes:

Jose> Jean-Marc, I have recompiled lyx-1.2.1 for redhat 7.3 and xforms
Jose> 0.89. Can I upload it to ftp.lyx.org?

I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

JMarc

Re: Recompiling lyx on RH 7.3 (was Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 08:49:51AM -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
> I'm willing, unable!
> 
> I have gcc3-3.0.4 for c++. Is there a known problem there? rebuild ends:

Change the offending line to

return os.str().c_str();

and/or

  ./configure  --without-included-string

> I'm good at C and Java, but don't know any C++ so don't even understand 
> the error message.

Even if you did it is not obvious that LyX's string is sometimes not
std::string...

Andre'

PS: Please quote only the relevant parts of the message you are responding
to. People who need the full message can go to the archives. And please
write _below_ the parts you are quoting as it is easier to read top-down
(context, then your remark) than vice versa.

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson)

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[José Abílio Oliveira Matos]

On Thursday 29 August 2002 14:58, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>
> I will not have time to put it there myself until Sep 13. So you'd
> better ask lars to do it. Make sure to nname it (and the rh 6.2 one)
> using the same scheme we had for 1.2.0.

  Ok it should be lyx-1.2.1-1rh73-xforms089.i386.rpm, and the present one 
should be renamed lyx-1.2.1-1rh62-xforms088.i386.rpm

> JMarc

-- 
José Abílio

Re: Subject: LyX 1.2.1 and RedHat 7.3

[John Levon]

On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 11:53:54PM +0200, Udo Müller wrote:

 So I caught it from the Web and unzipped it into
 /usr/local/lib, then I linked it into /lib and
 /usr/lib. 

Dont do this, you are likely to mess up your system.

 The result was the same, nothing worked, as I
 installed it against the advice of RPM. Has anybody a
 solution or does anybody happend the same problem?

get the .src.rpm then :

rpm --rebuild lyx-1.2.1.src.rpm

then instsall the binary in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS

(and perhaps you could send back the 7.3 RPM for our ftp site)

regards
john

-- 
Take the ideas you find useful. Try not to get hung up on the labels.
- Jonathan S. Shapiro