Re: content management question
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:53 AM -0500 Puneet Kishor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote: [...] Also, those notes are talking about the next release (BeijingRelease). The current release has some Mac OS X-related issues (listed at the end of the topic) but FWIW my two low-use intallations on Mac OS X 10.1.x using the stock Perl 5.6.1 and unmodified TWiki sources are working just fine. ^^^^^ I am running 10.2.1, so that might (or might not) create problems. Additionally, you do mean Perl 5.6.0, no? Oops! Yes, I meant 5.6.0. Or rather, I meant 5.6.1 but I was wrong -- as I told Puneet in private e-mail, I've had the delusion for several months now that I've been running 5.6.1 all this time. On Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:51 AM -0500 Puneet Kishor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Also, I was not quite sure of being able to protect twiki... wikis by nature are laissez-faire, and I didn't quite want that. TWiki can be protected using httpd.conf and .htaccess; that's what I'm doing in my installation at work. It took a bit of fiddling, though, and I'm not entirely sure I've completely secured it. Actually, I'm sure I *haven't* -- I'm relying on Basic authentication without SSL. *Sigh* So much time, so little to do. Wait. Strike that. Reverse it. :-( Paul. -- Paul Hoffman :: Taubman Medical Library :: Univ. of Michigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nkuitse/
Re: content management question
All this talk about Twiki got me interested, so I downloaded it onto my more or less stock 10.2.1 system. Given the talk about MIME::Base64, I fired up CPAN and installed it. CPAN complained about ftp, but I ignored it, and perl 5.8.0 never surfaced. I ran a test script to make sure base64 was encoding and decoding without problems. Following that I moved Twiki into /Library/Webserver, fiddled with the permissions and owners according to various instructions, and fired up Twiki. RCS complained about my settings when I tried to modify a page, so I fixed up some of the typos(?) in the instructions. So far it's been up a couple of days and seems to be running OK. I haven't tried selective protection yet, I'll see in a couple of weeks when my work life is a little less hectic. So far, though, so good - and damn near painless. On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 09:51 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > The most popular suggestion from this list was twiki (www.twiki.org) > because of its improvements over wiki, mainly file attachments, > database plugins, etc. I finally passed over twiki because of what > seems to me to be its requirements -- perl 5.8.0 (although a recent > post suggested otherwise). Also, I was not quite sure of being able to > protect twiki... wikis by nature are laissez-faire, and I didn't quite > want that. > Peter Tattersall Necessity hath no law. Feigned necessities, imaginary necessities are the greatest cozenage that men can put upon the Providence of God, and make pretences to break known rules by. -- Oliver Cromwell, 1654
Re: content management question
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:51 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > I looked very longingly at bricolage, but I found a few things wrong > with it... (1) it requires a lot of complicated pieces to be in place > in order to work; (2) not supporting MySQL is problematic for me; (3) > there was no way I could "play" with it before deciding... on > bricolage's website there are a few screenshots, but that's it... no > live demo, no list of other sites I can see that are running > bricolage, etc. And, of course, since it is so complicated to install, > I couldn't just easily "play" with it. A few notes on this (caveat: I'm the Bricolage maintainer): * Bricolage does require you to install Perl -- but only because you need to compile Apache with mod_perl statically compiled in. You could do this in a directory structure completely independent of Apple's Perl if you needed to -- it's possible to have both. This is what I do, as a matter of fact. * I "requires a lot of complicated pieces to be in place in order to work" because of how much it does. But that might be a clue that it might be overkill for your needs. It's really designed to work for large organizations. * Some folks have offered to port Bricolage to MySQL, but no one has actually done it. Pity. Anyway, PostgreSQL is *very* easy to install on Mac OS X (either by compiling yourself or using a binary from www.entropy.ch), and getting easier to use every day. * I have a test installation of Bricolage you could play with. Just pop me a message and I'll set up an account. Having a live demo, however, would be a pretty serious security risk, since templates are written in Perl and untainted. * I'm working on getting a list of sites that use Bricolage. Here are a couple: http://www.who.int http://www.dfaus.com/ * If you have Apache/mod_perl and PostgreSQL installed, installing Bricolage is not at all difficult thanks to the hard work of Sam Tregar in building an installation script. I'll concede that it's not as easy as Moveable Type, though! BTW, I wrote an appendix to the forthcoming ORA Mason book on Bricolage. It covers installation and gives a brief introduction to using it. Check it out! Regards, David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 15726394 http://david.wheeler.net/ Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: content management question
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 10:00 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > yes, I know. That's why I wrote the above... hoping I would get a > response from you. ;-). Thanks for the response. And I fell for it! Damn! > I am wondering if you folks have considered making some of the > complicated pieces optional... for example, "use mod_perl because it > will perform better, however, it will also work without mod_perl" > kinda philosophy. No. Bricolage is an enterprise application, not really designed for small jobs (though it can do them). The entire interface, for example, is written in HTML::Mason and requires Apache::Request. Without that, we'd need to completely rewrite the UI to use some other framework (Cocoa, anyone? ;-)). The target user for Bricolage is a magazine publisher or a newspaper. It's not really designed for hobbyist web site maintainers or bloggers. > I have also looked longingly at PostGres, but the reality seems to be > that MySQL simply has wy more momentum behind it. The same seems > to be happening with PHP. Something like MoveableType has the ability > to stem the tide because MT also functions at several levels... what > clinches the deal is the MT is just so easy to pick up and run with. > The same is with MySQL. More users using it means there is more > development, there are more tools to manage it, etc. etc. No, it doesn't. PostgreSQL is developing *very* fast, and has been ACID-compliant for years. It really is the only OSS database good for very large-scale applications like Bricolage. As for Moveable Type, it does much less than Bricolage does, and thus has far less demanding database requirements (hence its ability to run on DB_File). > Btw, I am not sure what you mean by "port Bricolage to MySQL." > Wouldn't that just involve setting up the tables in MySQL and pointing > the perl scripts to the new datasource? That should be really easy... > I think. Unless, you guys have tied Bricolage integrally to PostGres's > internal plumbing. There are a few ties, but not many. The issue is more that there is a *lot* of SQL in Bricolage, and unexpected issues could crop up. There is a DBD adapter framework built in to Bricolage, and an old driver for Oracle that could be updated fairly easily. MySQL would be trickier, but probably take an experienced SQL jockey a few weeks to port. There is only one storied procedure that I'm aware of. Patches welcome. > Please. I would love that. Please set up an account for me because I > am darned curious about bricolage. Give me a day or two to get that installation upgraded and configured. It seems to be down at the moment (I haven't had anyone ask for access in a while). > Also, if you set up a live demo with faux data in it that wouldn't be > a security risk, would it? After all, there would be nothing valuable > for folks to steal! It's more an issue with using Perl to access the file system than anything else. Bricolage is not really designed for open, public use. It's more of an application than a web site. Doing what you ask would take a lot of work, and I currently don't have the tuits. > Fwiw, please consider making it as easy as MT... a lot more folks will > use it, and it will just insure that it grows. I couldn't make it easier without removing functionality, and that in itself would be difficult. Bricolage does far more than any other OSS CMS/publishing system that I'm aware of. We're talking 110K+ lines of code here! But it *is* easy to install. Use a RedHat distribution with a good installation of Apache/mod_perl and PostgreSQL from RPMs, or use FreeBSD and its ports collection, and then Bricolage's own installer will take care of the rest. It's really not difficult. Regards, David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 15726394 http://david.wheeler.net/ Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: content management question
David Wheeler wrote: > On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:51 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > >> I looked very longingly at bricolage, but I found a few things wrong >> with it... (1) it requires a lot of complicated pieces to be in place >> in order to work; (2) not supporting MySQL is problematic for me; (3) >> there was no way I could "play" with it before deciding... on >> bricolage's website there are a few screenshots, but that's it... no >> live demo, no list of other sites I can see that are running >> bricolage, etc. And, of course, since it is so complicated to install, >> I couldn't just easily "play" with it. > > > A few notes on this (caveat: I'm the Bricolage maintainer): yes, I know. That's why I wrote the above... hoping I would get a response from you. ;-). Thanks for the response. > > * Bricolage does require you to install Perl -- but only because you > need to compile Apache with mod_perl statically compiled in. You could > do this in a directory structure completely independent of Apple's Perl > if you needed to -- it's possible to have both. This is what I do, as a > matter of fact. > > * I "requires a lot of complicated pieces to be in place in order to > work" because of how much it does. But that might be a clue that it > might be overkill for your needs. It's really designed to work for large > organizations. I am wondering if you folks have considered making some of the complicated pieces optional... for example, "use mod_perl because it will perform better, however, it will also work without mod_perl" kinda philosophy. > > * Some folks have offered to port Bricolage to MySQL, but no one has > actually done it. Pity. Anyway, PostgreSQL is *very* easy to install on > Mac OS X (either by compiling yourself or using a binary from > www.entropy.ch), and getting easier to use every day. I have also looked longingly at PostGres, but the reality seems to be that MySQL simply has wy more momentum behind it. The same seems to be happening with PHP. Something like MoveableType has the ability to stem the tide because MT also functions at several levels... what clinches the deal is the MT is just so easy to pick up and run with. The same is with MySQL. More users using it means there is more development, there are more tools to manage it, etc. etc. Btw, I am not sure what you mean by "port Bricolage to MySQL." Wouldn't that just involve setting up the tables in MySQL and pointing the perl scripts to the new datasource? That should be really easy... I think. Unless, you guys have tied Bricolage integrally to PostGres's internal plumbing. > > * I have a test installation of Bricolage you could play with. Just pop > me a message and I'll set up an account. Having a live demo, however, > would be a pretty serious security risk, since templates are written in > Perl and untainted. Please. I would love that. Please set up an account for me because I am darned curious about bricolage. Also, if you set up a live demo with faux data in it that wouldn't be a security risk, would it? After all, there would be nothing valuable for folks to steal! > > * I'm working on getting a list of sites that use Bricolage. Here are a > couple: > > http://www.who.int > http://www.dfaus.com/ > > * If you have Apache/mod_perl and PostgreSQL installed, installing > Bricolage is not at all difficult thanks to the hard work of Sam Tregar > in building an installation script. I'll concede that it's not as easy > as Moveable Type, though! Fwiw, please consider making it as easy as MT... a lot more folks will use it, and it will just insure that it grows. Thank you. Puneet.
Re: content management question
My apologies... Yes, Pete, you did mention MT, and its licensing cost. It was my oversight to not restate that. Cost _is_ a problem, and I have to talk with the Trotts about it. If the Gallery/artists I am doing this for start making any money there will be no problem in paying up. That said, MT might make things so simple that $150 might be worth the trouble saved. I really have to study their EULA, so to say. Thanks Pete, for your help. On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 09:34 AM, Pete Prodoehl wrote: > Well, I did mention MovableType (offlist) but didn't know if the cost > (for commercial use) or the license would be a problem. > > I believe that by using MovableType you agree to not charge anything > for the installation/setup you do for others, and last I checked the > commercial license is $150. Again, for someone doing freelance work, > on the cheap, these can be problematic issues. > ..
Re: content management question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, I did mention MovableType (offlist) but didn't know if the cost (for commercial use) or the license would be a problem. I believe that by using MovableType you agree to not charge anything for the installation/setup you do for others, and last I checked the commercial license is $150. Again, for someone doing freelance work, on the cheap, these can be problematic issues. I should note that I am a big fan of MovableType, it's an extremely well made system... and it's written in Perl ;) Ben and Mena are Mac OS X users as well... Pete -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAj2teMsACgkQml9CZXxOrNAzAACdH/HPiVU1skKGsDjzCBCutWP0 cRAAoMlC9uDynC+pFv9M6QMSkt6fVzok =vRgh -END PGP SIGNATURE- Puneet Kishor wrote: > To all those who replied, many thanks. To summarize... > [snip] > Funnily, no one suggested MoveableType, which is what I have ended up > choosing. MT is elegant, customizable, and best of all, it installed on > my iBook like a sweet dream. Literally 3 or 4 keystrokes. Yes, I don't > have Imagemagick, but I will deal with that later. MT just installs so > easily... I didn't even have to install MySQL... I am just using DB_File > which seems to work fine. Btw, is there some place I can read more about > BerkeleyDB 1.x that comes with stock Unix as compared to something like > MySQL? Sleepycat's website mostly talks about the more recent versions > of BerkeleyDB. I am finding DB_File's performance to be a bit viscous, > so to say. Anyway, back to MT... another nice thing about it was I could > see so many other MT-driven websites. A huge user community, active > development, support forum... and really, really easy to work with. > > Over and out. > >
Re: content management question
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 09:51 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > > I found a wonderful list at http://www.la-grange.net/cms which I used > to further my search. > > I found callisto to be simply amazing, but was a bit overwhelmed by > AxKit. > Like the little greens guys in Toy Story would say... oOoo Forest Forest Dean Feighner [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://4est.dyndns.org
Re: content management question
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:34 AM, Puneet Kishor > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Thanks for the tip. However, it seems twiki requires updating the >> stock Apple perl 5.6.0 to 5.8.0 (I read the notes at the OSX specific >> page). > > Fortunately, that statement in the topic TWikiOnMacOSX is wrong; see > the italicized corrections right below it. It sounds like the note's > author ran into the "try to install 5.8" CPAN problem we all know and > love. > > Also, those notes are talking about the next release (BeijingRelease). > The current release has some Mac OS X-related issues (listed at the > end of the topic) but FWIW my two low-use intallations on Mac OS X > 10.1.x using the stock Perl 5.6.1 and unmodified TWiki sources are > working just fine. ^^^ ^^ I am running 10.2.1, so that might (or might not) create problems. Additionally, you do mean Perl 5.6.0, no? Thanks.
Re: content management question
To all those who replied, many thanks. To summarize... I wanted an easy to install and use content management system that I could use for creating multiple art websites. The system _had_ to be able to run with Apple's stock perl 5.6.0, and if it used a database, the db had to be simple to install. Simplicity was the key in all of this because eventually these websites would be populated with content by the artists themselves. The system would be developed on my iBook, but would be eventually hosted on a mid-to-low-end server, preferably running FreeBSD/Darwin just so the eventual server would be as close to my OS X layout as possible. Since this is a perl list, it was to be understood that I wanted a perl-based solution. I got a few php-based answers. It seems that for most folks the php language and its solutions continue to seem to be easier. That seems like a shame for perl, because it really shouldn't be so. Read on... I found a wonderful list at http://www.la-grange.net/cms which I used to further my search. I found callisto to be simply amazing, but was a bit overwhelmed by AxKit. I looked very longingly at bricolage, but I found a few things wrong with it... (1) it requires a lot of complicated pieces to be in place in order to work; (2) not supporting MySQL is problematic for me; (3) there was no way I could "play" with it before deciding... on bricolage's website there are a few screenshots, but that's it... no live demo, no list of other sites I can see that are running bricolage, etc. And, of course, since it is so complicated to install, I couldn't just easily "play" with it. The most popular suggestion from this list was twiki (www.twiki.org) because of its improvements over wiki, mainly file attachments, database plugins, etc. I finally passed over twiki because of what seems to me to be its requirements -- perl 5.8.0 (although a recent post suggested otherwise). Also, I was not quite sure of being able to protect twiki... wikis by nature are laissez-faire, and I didn't quite want that. There were a couple of offers for stuff folks have written, but the problem would be in further extending those works. Funnily, no one suggested MoveableType, which is what I have ended up choosing. MT is elegant, customizable, and best of all, it installed on my iBook like a sweet dream. Literally 3 or 4 keystrokes. Yes, I don't have Imagemagick, but I will deal with that later. MT just installs so easily... I didn't even have to install MySQL... I am just using DB_File which seems to work fine. Btw, is there some place I can read more about BerkeleyDB 1.x that comes with stock Unix as compared to something like MySQL? Sleepycat's website mostly talks about the more recent versions of BerkeleyDB. I am finding DB_File's performance to be a bit viscous, so to say. Anyway, back to MT... another nice thing about it was I could see so many other MT-driven websites. A huge user community, active development, support forum... and really, really easy to work with. Over and out.
Re: content management question
On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:34 AM, Puneet Kishor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for the tip. However, it seems twiki requires updating the > stock Apple perl 5.6.0 to 5.8.0 (I read the notes at the OSX > specific page). Fortunately, that statement in the topic TWikiOnMacOSX is wrong; see the italicized corrections right below it. It sounds like the note's author ran into the "try to install 5.8" CPAN problem we all know and love. Also, those notes are talking about the next release (BeijingRelease). The current release has some Mac OS X-related issues (listed at the end of the topic) but FWIW my two low-use intallations on Mac OS X 10.1.x using the stock Perl 5.6.1 and unmodified TWiki sources are working just fine. YMMV, of course. > That is, unfortunately, out of the questtion. In my last OS > iteration I upgraded perl to 5.6.1. I was successful eventually, > but it was a lot of heartburn. I definitely cannot go to 5.8.0 > because there is stuff I need to run that cannot run on 5.8.0. In > any case, I'd rather not mess with Apple's perl install. It is > simply not worth the trouble it causes. My sentiments exactly. Paul. -- Paul Hoffman :: Taubman Medical Library :: Univ. of Michigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: http://www.nkuitse.com/
Re: content management question
On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 01:30 PM, Sherm Pendley wrote: > Just install it elsewhere, so it doesn't conflict. Using > "-Dprefix=/opt" will install it in /opt/lib/perl5, /opt/bin, and so > on. You can use a variety of prefixes, keeping as many different > versions of Perl on your system as you'd like. It's not voodoo, it > simply takes a little forethought, organization, and planning. I agree with this. I would only add that you also use "-Uinstallusrbinperl" so that /usr/bin/perl doesn't get replaced. David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 15726394 http://david.wheeler.net/ Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: content management question
On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:34 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > I definitely cannot go to 5.8.0 because there is stuff I need to run > that cannot run on 5.8.0. In any case, I'd rather not mess with Apple's > perl install. It is simply not worth the trouble it causes. I agree, messing around with Apple's Perl install causes trouble and isn't worth it. For the most part, Apple's instructions on upgrading to 5.8.0 are quite good - the bit about exporting the LC_ALL_C variable to prevent warnings about it was particularly enlightening. But when it comes to choosing where to install it, they're brain-dead. The author says at the beginning that they've been tested only to upgrade a "clean" install - i.e. no CPAN modules are in /Library/Perl - and it shows. You can install 5.8.0 without touching Apple's 5.6.0 install in any way - you simply have to ignore Apple's suggestion of where to install it. Don't use the default, which installs it into /Library/Perl, and due to the fact that 5.6.0 puts its CPAN modules in /Library/Perl, creates a horrible mess in there, and don't use "-Dprefix=/usr" to entirely replace the stock Perl. Just install it elsewhere, so it doesn't conflict. Using "-Dprefix=/opt" will install it in /opt/lib/perl5, /opt/bin, and so on. You can use a variety of prefixes, keeping as many different versions of Perl on your system as you'd like. It's not voodoo, it simply takes a little forethought, organization, and planning. sherm--
Re: content management question
You can look for PHPNuke too: I've worked on it for a website (the designer needed some help)(and its url is www.norisberghen.it) and I found in that system all you need. adr > On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 10:07 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > >> Listers, >> >> While I wait to resolve perl errors on my Jaguar perl 5.6.0, I have a >> more generic question re content-management. >> >> I want to make a few websites for a few starving artists and >> galleries starving = zero or tending to zero resources; artists = >> almost computer illiterates). I have promised them the world in that >> the websites would be dynamic... visitors would be able to search for >> artworks based on different criteria, there would be an events >> calendar, etc. etc. More than anything, once set up, these >> artists/galleries would be able update the website themselves. After >> promising all this, I said to myself, "Oops!". >> >> Additionally, I have to develop these websites on my iBook, and host >> them on a cheap, server I am going to buy from eBay and install >> FreeBSD on it. My assumption is the FreeBSD is gonna be the closest >> to OS X in its directory layout and tools, and therefore not send me >> on too much of a loop (while these artists view me as a computer god, >> I am actually a Unix newbie). >> >> Here is my thinking -- I should consider using something like >> MoveableType or even a wiki to make the websites. That would allow >> the artists to themselves update the content as desired. I could use >> something like Mason, but I really don't want to get into mod_perl >> for now (I know Mason can work without mod_perl, but really likes >> mod_perl around). I want to have a little a standard deviation as >> possible from the stock installs... read, Apache 1.3.26 and perl >> 5.6.0 that comes with OS X. I am not averse to MySQL (I know MySQL >> quite well) but am not comfortable with PostGres (hence, >> Bricolage/Mason would not be an easy choice for me). >> >> MoveableType is really elegant... could it be configured to create an >> art gallery website? Wiki is perhaps the most elegant in its >> simplicity... what do you folks feel about that? >> >> Any advice much appreciated on any or all aspects of the above. >> >> Puneet. >> >
Re: content management question
While Wiki, Mason, MoveableType are all great, how about trying something like PostNuke or Envolution which are PHP based. There are several people in these communities that work on Mac and I've personally found running them on a my iBook for development a snap. There are many Gallery-type modules available which would certainly suit your purposes. As for a server, I found the using Redhat 7.3 on my old P2 much easier to use and available support was more plentiful than FreeBSD. Good Luck Paul On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 10:07 AM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > Listers, > > While I wait to resolve perl errors on my Jaguar perl 5.6.0, I have a > more generic question re content-management. > > I want to make a few websites for a few starving artists and galleries > starving = zero or tending to zero resources; artists = almost computer > illiterates). I have promised them the world in that the websites would > be dynamic... visitors would be able to search for artworks based on > different criteria, there would be an events calendar, etc. etc. More > than anything, once set up, these artists/galleries would be able > update the website themselves. After promising all this, I said to > myself, "Oops!". > > Additionally, I have to develop these websites on my iBook, and host > them on a cheap, server I am going to buy from eBay and install FreeBSD > on it. My assumption is the FreeBSD is gonna be the closest to OS X in > its directory layout and tools, and therefore not send me on too much > of a loop (while these artists view me as a computer god, I am actually > a Unix newbie). > > Here is my thinking -- I should consider using something like > MoveableType or even a wiki to make the websites. That would allow the > artists to themselves update the content as desired. I could use > something like Mason, but I really don't want to get into mod_perl for > now (I know Mason can work without mod_perl, but really likes mod_perl > around). I want to have a little a standard deviation as possible from > the stock installs... read, Apache 1.3.26 and perl 5.6.0 that comes > with OS X. I am not averse to MySQL (I know MySQL quite well) but am > not comfortable with PostGres (hence, Bricolage/Mason would not be an > easy choice for me). > > MoveableType is really elegant... could it be configured to create an > art gallery website? Wiki is perhaps the most elegant in its > simplicity... what do you folks feel about that? > > Any advice much appreciated on any or all aspects of the above. > > Puneet. >
Re: content management question
Thanks for the tip. However, it seems twiki requires updating the stock Apple perl 5.6.0 to 5.8.0 (I read the notes at the OSX specific page). That is, unfortunately, out of the questtion. In my last OS iteration I upgraded perl to 5.6.1. I was successful eventually, but it was a lot of heartburn. I definitely cannot go to 5.8.0 because there is stuff I need to run that cannot run on 5.8.0. In any case, I'd rather not mess with Apple's perl install. It is simply not worth the trouble it causes. Many thanks. Mitchell L Model wrote: > At 9:07 AM -0500 10/14/02, Puneet Kishor wrote: > >> Listers, >> >> While I wait to resolve perl errors on my Jaguar perl 5.6.0, I have a >> more generic question re content-management. >> >> I want to make a few websites for a few starving artists and galleries >> starving = zero or tending to zero resources; artists = almost >> computer illiterates). I have promised them the world in that the >> websites would be dynamic... visitors would be able to search for >> artworks based on different criteria, there would be an events >> calendar, etc. etc. More than anything, once set up, these >> artists/galleries would be able update the website themselves. After >> promising all this, I said to myself, "Oops!". >> >> Additionally, I have to develop these websites on my iBook, and host >> them on a cheap, server I am going to buy from eBay and install >> FreeBSD on it. My assumption is the FreeBSD is gonna be the closest to >> OS X in its directory layout and tools, and therefore not send me on >> too much of a loop (while these artists view me as a computer god, I >> am actually a Unix newbie). >> >> Here is my thinking -- I should consider using something like >> MoveableType or even a wiki to make the websites. That would allow the >> artists to themselves update the content as desired. I could use >> something like Mason, but I really don't want to get into mod_perl for >> now (I know Mason can work without mod_perl, but really likes mod_perl >> around). I want to have a little a standard deviation as possible from >> the stock installs... read, Apache 1.3.26 and perl 5.6.0 that comes >> with OS X. I am not averse to MySQL (I know MySQL quite well) but am >> not comfortable with PostGres (hence, Bricolage/Mason would not be an >> easy choice for me). >> >> MoveableType is really elegant... could it be configured to create an >> art gallery website? Wiki is perhaps the most elegant in its >> simplicity... what do you folks feel about that? >> >> Any advice much appreciated on any or all aspects of the above. > > > Wiki. Definitely. Use TWiki (http://www.twiki.org) -- several levels > beyond any of the others in depth, breadth, and maturity. A very > serious effort, full of features, customizability, etc. Most, if not > all, of what you would find yourself wanting to hack in to another wiki > is already in TWiki. It's even one of the few that supports file > uploads, which it sounds like you need. All TWiki needs is a standard > web environment (Apache, typically) and (until the almost-ready new > version comes out with the option of a lightweight replacement) RCS. > You can find OSX specific instructions for installing TWiki on OS X at > http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOnMacOSX, and you should follow > the installation instructions that come with TWiki carefully and > methodically, but you should be up in a couple of hours after > downloading. (After a lot of experience on various Wiki sites and > heavily customizing one based on the original C2 wiki code base, and > after experimenting with a number of others, I recently installed TWiki > at Wesleyan University.)
Re: content management question
At 9:07 AM -0500 10/14/02, Puneet Kishor wrote: >Listers, > >While I wait to resolve perl errors on my Jaguar perl 5.6.0, I have >a more generic question re content-management. > >I want to make a few websites for a few starving artists and >galleries starving = zero or tending to zero resources; artists = >almost computer illiterates). I have promised them the world in that >the websites would be dynamic... visitors would be able to search >for artworks based on different criteria, there would be an events >calendar, etc. etc. More than anything, once set up, these >artists/galleries would be able update the website themselves. After >promising all this, I said to myself, "Oops!". > >Additionally, I have to develop these websites on my iBook, and host >them on a cheap, server I am going to buy from eBay and install >FreeBSD on it. My assumption is the FreeBSD is gonna be the closest >to OS X in its directory layout and tools, and therefore not send me >on too much of a loop (while these artists view me as a computer >god, I am actually a Unix newbie). > >Here is my thinking -- I should consider using something like >MoveableType or even a wiki to make the websites. That would allow >the artists to themselves update the content as desired. I could use >something like Mason, but I really don't want to get into mod_perl >for now (I know Mason can work without mod_perl, but really likes >mod_perl around). I want to have a little a standard deviation as >possible from the stock installs... read, Apache 1.3.26 and perl >5.6.0 that comes with OS X. I am not averse to MySQL (I know MySQL >quite well) but am not comfortable with PostGres (hence, >Bricolage/Mason would not be an easy choice for me). > >MoveableType is really elegant... could it be configured to create >an art gallery website? Wiki is perhaps the most elegant in its >simplicity... what do you folks feel about that? > >Any advice much appreciated on any or all aspects of the above. Wiki. Definitely. Use TWiki (http://www.twiki.org) -- several levels beyond any of the others in depth, breadth, and maturity. A very serious effort, full of features, customizability, etc. Most, if not all, of what you would find yourself wanting to hack in to another wiki is already in TWiki. It's even one of the few that supports file uploads, which it sounds like you need. All TWiki needs is a standard web environment (Apache, typically) and (until the almost-ready new version comes out with the option of a lightweight replacement) RCS. You can find OSX specific instructions for installing TWiki on OS X at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOnMacOSX, and you should follow the installation instructions that come with TWiki carefully and methodically, but you should be up in a couple of hours after downloading. (After a lot of experience on various Wiki sites and heavily customizing one based on the original C2 wiki code base, and after experimenting with a number of others, I recently installed TWiki at Wesleyan University.) -- Mitchell L ModelMLM Consulting Visiting Associate Professor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 42 Oxbow Road Computer Science (508) 358-8055 Wayland, MA 01778 Wesleyan University ~~ Mentoring, training, & tool building for object & web technologies ~~ Interface design, usability evaluation, & productivity enhancement ~~ Specializing in bioinformatics & knowledge representation ~~ Expert in Smalltalk, Python, Perl, Java, C++, Lisp, Zope, Wiki
