Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Krister Ekstrom]

+100 on that one.

> 11 nov. 2016 kl. 03:55 skrev E.T. :
> 
>   One month?! You will break that pledge at the speed of light. Its not in 
> your nature to stick to this one. Trust me. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 11/10/2016 6:51 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>> You wrote:
>> 
>> I hereby pledge to not post anything off-topic for at least a month no
>> matter how provoked I feel. Anybody with me?
>> 
>> I'm in!
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: 2016 Macbook Pro

[Maria Chapman]

I don’t think i would use a touch bar much either, as I use an external 
keyboard most of the time.


Maria

> On 11 Nov 2016, at 11:49 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli  
> wrote:
> 
> Would definitely get more SSD space. Then have to decide about ram or 
> processor upgrade. Want to future proof.
>> On Nov 9, 2016, at 12:19 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Ram is also important though let’s not sell it short.  More is better if you 
>> can afford it and it’s usually a pretty small money bump for a good 
>> performance bump.
>> 
>> Apple though is including 8gb minimum now which is a nice step and as 
>> someone mentioned a good amount for a lot of use cases.  Even more storage 
>> is good but for me it’s better to have SSD storage and less of it than 
>> rotating storage and more.  SSD is so fast and such a boost in performance.
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I definitely would have gone with more storage over more ram.
 On Nov 6, 2016, at 1:02 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Cheers for this, it’s interesting reading,
  
 I’m surprized about the storage size though, I would have gone more but up 
 to the individual
  
  
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Tree Mabry
 Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 3:56 PM
 To: MacVisionaries >>> >
 Subject: Re: 2016 Macbook Pro
  finitely get SSD.
 I ordered the 13 inch, non touch bar model, with the 2.0 processor, 256 
 gigs of storage, and 16 gigs of ram. A few days ago I wrote an extensive 
 post on Apple Vis, about what went into this decision; I have copied and 
 pasted some of that post below; I’m sorry that it’s a bit long. You can 
 read the full post at this link.
 http://www.applevis.com/forum/hardware-accessories/why-i-just-ordered-2016-mac-book-pro-function-keys
  
 
  
 I think that the people who have expressed a desire to stay on top of the 
 latest trends in user interface might be especially interested in my 
 paragraph about Apple’s official touch bar user interface guidelines.
 First let me say that I was pretty open to the idea of the touch bar last 
 week as I watched the Apple event. I felt pretty confident that Apple 
 would make sure that this new interface worked with voice over. In the 
 days after the event I hungrily tried to find any information about how 
 exactly Voice Over accessibility would work with the touch bar. Ironically 
 when I did come across some specifics they both encouraged me, and at the 
 same time helped me decide that I have no interest in the touch bar. The 
 best info I have found so far about Voice Over and the touch bar comes 
 from I accessibility, here is a link to the relevant article.
 http://iaccessibility.net/index.php/2016/10/28/voiceover-at-the-bar/ 
 
 The main takeaways are, you can use the number keys as function keys, 
 there are keystrokes for raising and lowering volume, and to interact with 
 sliders on the touch bar you have to double tap and hold, wait for a tone, 
 and then slide your finger. I think the volume keystrokes, and the number 
 keys acting as function keys makes a lot of sense, and I'm really glad 
 Apple is doing things that way. However, as soon as I realized how 
 relieved I was about these changes, I realized the relief was based around 
 me being able to avoid using the touch bar.
 Basically I do not believe that the touch bar is going to make many things 
 more efficient or easier for voice over users. Take the sliders I 
 previously mentioned. I would much rather turn down brightness by simply 
 holding down a key, instead of the three step process voice over users 
 will have to navigate.
 To some up my thoughts about touch bar and accessibility, I believe the 
 experience will be fine, but I do not think it will be better then what we 
 already have.
 I know this post is getting very very long, but I want to now get into the 
 primary reasons I have decided to pass on the touch bar, and they have 
 little to do with voice over Accessibility.
 1. I do not believe the touch bar will offer anything to power users who 
 know there keystrokes.
 If you are an IOS user who wants to get into the mac, the touch bar might 
 be a good way for you to uncover features you didn't know about. But as a 
 long time mac user who knows the keystrokes by hear

RE: Mac Mini as a windows machine?

[Simon Fogarty]

Late in on this one,

 All my mac computers have windows installed on them.

 My mac book air 2013 has a boot camp install of windows 10 enterprise,
 My iMac at work is bootcamped with windows 7 pro, and my work mac mini is 
running a virtual box image of windows 10 pro and another of windows 7 pro,

  Either option is working great but I use the MBA more for windows 10 personal 
use.
And tend to have less issues with things than windows computer users ssuch as 
HP & DELL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 7:18 PM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: Mac Mini as a windows machine?

I think this is definitely on topic since we’re dealing with using a Mac to run 
windows.

I would whole heartedly support your use of windows on a Mac.  I would suggest 
going with the VM Fusion solution though.  It’s possible for a blind person to 
independently install windows easier under fusion than boot camp.  I’m sure 
that some will have a good way to independently install under bootcamp but the 
automatic installation wizard under VM Fusion which now works under windows 10 
as well is fantastic.  You also have the full capabilities of the Mac available 
while you also enjoy the windows environment.  You also have the ability to 
have smooth access between both platforms.

Just my $.02

> On Nov 8, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi, hope this style of thread is okay for a mac list.
> 
> I have been a Mac user for 5 years now, and I’m way behind in the windows 
> world.  I want to jump back in and freshen up my windows skills.  I’ve always 
> kind of liked the concept of the Mac Mini.  Would it make a good mid priced 
> Windows solution?  It is frustrating shopping for a Windows machine hovering 
> around the $600 range.  They all get such mediocre reviews.  So, I got to 
> thinking…  Maybe a Mac Mini!  Of course, one huge drawback to this is I am 
> not sure how challenging it is to successfully install Windows and keep it up 
> to date.  I’m partial to the bootcamp method of running the two systems.
> 
> What are your thoughts and guidance.  If this topic goes too far into the 
> Windows world, I welcome off list replies.  :)  I really need some Windows 
> shopping advice but do not belong to a Windows list or general accessible 
> tech list.
> 
> Thank you,
> Traci
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera.

T-Mobile to provide high speed access to Gitmo

[Scott Granados]

Interesting article about T-Mobile activating high speed LTE service on the 
naval station at Guantanamo Bay.  The move is the first time that service men 
and women and their families have a high speed data option available.  All the 
features and plans available in the US are available to the folks at Gitmo and 
the federal packages available to government operatives and the military are 
also available.  Read more here.

https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-and-blogs/naval-station-guantanamo-bay.htm

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

T-Mobile releases sync up drive for your car

[Scott Granados]

Interesting article about mobile services in the car.  T-Mobile has released 
sync up drive for your car.  This dongle plugs in to your ODB diagnostic port 
on your car and provides WiFi for up to 5 devices in the vehicle.  Also 
supports real time diagnostic data on the performance of your car, GPS tracking 
and performance trending.  For teen drivers for example you can track the 
vehicle, you can monitor for maintenance issues and provide access for the 
whole family with out the need of fiddling around with tethering with your 
phone etc.  Read more here.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/07/t-mobile-syncup-drive-adds-4g-lte-car-wifi/

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Betternet VPN

[Scott Granados]

Hi Sean,

So let me actually answer your questions.


First, VPN adds about 15% overhead or so to the data stream.  If you figure 
about 1500 byte packets normally for data using a VPN typically reduces the 
available packet size depending on the cypher and protocol type down to about 
1360 bytes per packet.  This is because you now have a wrapper for each packet 
that contains the actual encrypted data along with the envelope created by the 
VPN to appropriately route the packet to the VPN server where it’s disassembled 
and decrypted and sent on it’s way to it’s final destination.  This is a rough 
approximation but you get the idea.

The cost factor then is take your average stream size for listening to 
the radio and add 10 - 20 % to that number.  There are things that can offset 
some of this.  Some VPNs for example offer data compression but with radio 
remember that data is already compressed most likely so you might not gain that 
much extra and in fact might actually lose advantage because now you’re adding 
a header for compression as well as one for the VPN itself.

Now if you want a lot more control over these type of things and how much data 
is used by which features you can roll your own VPN.  I personally use Open 
VPN.  This requires a server out on the internet which you can rent for less 
than $5 US per month, a free client that’s available for any Computer OS, IOS 
and Android and a little time and patients.  You install the Open VPN server on 
the remote server you rent, you install the client on your device of choice, 
you then generate certificates for authentication and a configuration for the 
server side as well as a specific configuration for your device of choice.  
When ever you want to connect you press one button, things negotiate and bam 
you’re up and running.  Many low cost virtual server providers like Digital 
Ocean allow you to build your server in many different countries and you’re 
also not charged per device.  Say you have 10 devices you want to secure, the 
cost is the same for all 10 as it is for 1.  The key size and even 
authentication having are totally under your control so if you’re paranoid like 
me you can build very large 4096 bit keys and use SHA-512 as your data 
authentication hash which is far beyond military grade.

Let me know if that helps or if you need any further details.

Thanks
Scott


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:53 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
> Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
> iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it 
> has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own radio 
> station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have a few 
> questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if I choose to 
> use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which apps use 
> data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in the list 
> of apps that use cell data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm writing to 
> both lists because I don't know if one or the other knows too much about 
> VPN's. Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at car

Re: Betternet VPN

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You've got a point. I think what concerned me is the way the app store 
description has things explained. That said, again, I restate, you do indeed 
make some valid points here.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "David Chittenden" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Betternet VPN


Actually, the free version works quite well. It locates a server in the 
country where the company is and uses that server when accessing said 
website. It works well for Amazon Video which requires US location server. 
My advice is to try the free version first and see if it will give access to 
what you want. If not (NetFlix has several countries for example), then the 
paid subscription becomes necessary.


So, technically, the basic complete service is free, and it works decently 
well for a free VPN server. Also remember, that type of service has 
significant ongoing costs which they need to cover.


Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

On 11/11/2016, at 17:38, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


Yeah, it looks like in my case, being I'm in the states, I would a gotten 
that country for free, but anything, including Canada, I'd have to pay to 
upgrade to premium. In the app store, it says the app is totally free, no 
registration, no credit card, etc.


So then, I kept flicking down, and it says offers in app purchases. I was 
like, wait, I thought they said above that it was free!


Needless to say, I'm not very impressed at the dev's marketing ethics with 
that. If it ain't free all around, then don't say it is.


I gave it a 1 star rating/review. Shruggs. Anyway, if it works for you, 
then that's what matters most. So, good luck with it. Not my cup o jo, 
but, I can't be made to please everyone. LOL!

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Betternet VPN


Hey Chris. When you first get it in the app store it's free. But in order 
to use a US VPN server, I had to pay $7 Canadian and that's a monthly 
subscription.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Shawn,

I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
Subject: Betternet VPN


Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app 
called Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that 
it has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your 
own radio station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but 
I have a few questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used 
if I choose to use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change 
which apps use data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't 
see it in the list of apps that use cell data. Any help would be 
appreciated. I'm writing to both lists because I don't know if one or the 
other knows too much about VPN's. Thanks.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.googl

Re: Betternet VPN

[David Chittenden]

Actually, the free version works quite well. It locates a server in the country 
where the company is and uses that server when accessing said website. It works 
well for Amazon Video which requires US location server. My advice is to try 
the free version first and see if it will give access to what you want. If not 
(NetFlix has several countries for example), then the paid subscription becomes 
necessary.

So, technically, the basic complete service is free, and it works decently well 
for a free VPN server. Also remember, that type of service has significant 
ongoing costs which they need to cover. 

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 11/11/2016, at 17:38, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, it looks like in my case, being I'm in the states, I would a gotten 
> that country for free, but anything, including Canada, I'd have to pay to 
> upgrade to premium. In the app store, it says the app is totally free, no 
> registration, no credit card, etc.
> 
> So then, I kept flicking down, and it says offers in app purchases. I was 
> like, wait, I thought they said above that it was free!
> 
> Needless to say, I'm not very impressed at the dev's marketing ethics with 
> that. If it ain't free all around, then don't say it is.
> 
> I gave it a 1 star rating/review. Shruggs. Anyway, if it works for you, then 
> that's what matters most. So, good luck with it. Not my cup o jo, but, I 
> can't be made to please everyone. LOL!
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Betternet VPN
> 
> 
> Hey Chris. When you first get it in the app store it's free. But in order to 
> use a US VPN server, I had to pay $7 Canadian and that's a monthly 
> subscription.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Shawn,
>> 
>> I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
>> being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>> 
>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
>> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
>> Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
>> Subject: Betternet VPN
>> 
>> 
>> Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
>> Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
>> iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it 
>> has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own 
>> radio station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have 
>> a few questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if I 
>> choose to use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which 
>> apps use data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in 
>> the list of apps that use cell data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm 
>> writing to both lists because I don't know if one or the other knows too 
>> much about VPN's. Thanks.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of

Re: Betternet VPN

[Brandt Steenkamp]

My VPN of choice is hotspot VPN. South African radio is boring as hell, so BBC 
here we go.

Warm regards,

Brandt Steenkamp

Sent from my Macbook Pro

Contact:

Phone:
Private: +27 (0)60 525 9181 
For technical support with iOS: +27 (0)78 120 5013 

Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com 

Twitter: @brandtsteenkamp 
> On 11 Nov 2016, at 6:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Shawn,
> 
> I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
> being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
> Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
> Subject: Betternet VPN
> 
> 
> Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
> Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
> iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it 
> has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own radio 
> station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have a few 
> questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if I choose to 
> use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which apps use 
> data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in the list 
> of apps that use cell data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm writing to 
> both lists because I don't know if one or the other knows too much about 
> VPN's. Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.

Re: Betternet VPN

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, it looks like in my case, being I'm in the states, I would a gotten 
that country for free, but anything, including Canada, I'd have to pay to 
upgrade to premium. In the app store, it says the app is totally free, no 
registration, no credit card, etc.


So then, I kept flicking down, and it says offers in app purchases. I was 
like, wait, I thought they said above that it was free!


Needless to say, I'm not very impressed at the dev's marketing ethics with 
that. If it ain't free all around, then don't say it is.


I gave it a 1 star rating/review. Shruggs. Anyway, if it works for you, then 
that's what matters most. So, good luck with it. Not my cup o jo, but, I 
can't be made to please everyone. LOL!

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Betternet VPN


Hey Chris. When you first get it in the app store it's free. But in order to 
use a US VPN server, I had to pay $7 Canadian and that's a monthly 
subscription.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Shawn,

I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
Subject: Betternet VPN


Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that 
it has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own 
radio station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I 
have a few questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if 
I choose to use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change 
which apps use data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't 
see it in the list of apps that use cell data. Any help would be 
appreciated. I'm writing to both lists because I don't know if one or the 
other knows too much about VPN's. Thanks.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this lis

Re: Betternet VPN

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hey Chris. When you first get it in the app store it's free. But in order to 
use a US VPN server, I had to pay $7 Canadian and that's a monthly subscription.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> Shawn,
> 
> I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
> being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 
> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
> Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
> Subject: Betternet VPN
> 
> 
> Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
> Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
> iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it 
> has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own radio 
> station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have a few 
> questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if I choose to 
> use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which apps use 
> data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in the list 
> of apps that use cell data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm writing to 
> both lists because I don't know if one or the other knows too much about 
> VPN's. Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisi

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Terje Strømberg]

Many or many enough people give wrong answer to the pollsters because they do 
not want to tell anyone what they actually wotes. The 

Take care

mob is out there.

> 10. nov. 2016 kl. 16.47 skrev Todor Fassl :
> 
> What do you mean, "you're not supposed to" get calls from pollsters on your 
> mobile phone?  I doubt there is a law that says that, at least not in the 
> USA. Congress has set up do-not-call lists but they don't apply to political 
> speech. That would be a violation of the First Amendment.I really doubt there 
> is anything illegal about a pollster calling mobile phones. Maybe at one time 
> they didn't do it out of politeness but something like that is not 
> sustainable. These pollsters aren't doing this for fun, after all. Once one 
> of them starts calling mobile phones, the others would have to go along in 
> order to keep up.
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 09:39 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> You’re not supposed to, that’s very interesting.  I’ve rolled out dialers 
>> before and you’re supposed to prevent dialing blocks of DIDs assigned to 
>> cell carriers.
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I get calls from pollsters all the time on my cell phone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 07:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 You knew the signs were out there, it was a Brexit type event all over 
 again.  If you listened to the elite media and ruling class there was no 
 way, if you listened to the actual people you knew it was going to happen.
 
 Polling is dead.  There’s a technological and believe it or not on topic 
 reason for it as well.  Apple and Google have us all cutting the cord and 
 living with cell phones now.  Pollsters can’t call cell phones.  The fewer 
 hard lines there are left out there the fewer people to sample.
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Most people I know are still in a state of shock.  I didn't think this 
> would happen in a million years.  Hilary wasn't a good candidate, but 
> still ...
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Bummer dudes and dudettes!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 12:50 AM
>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
>> Subject: Get out there and vote everyone!
>> 
>> For our friends in the US,
>>  Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it that way.  Get 
>> out there and vote today, do your civic duty regardless of your party / 
>> candidate / beliefs just get out and have your voice heard if you 
>> haven’t already.
>>  Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling place, Lyft 
>> has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google also has the 
>> means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits to get to your 
>> closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and volunteer services as 
>> well.
>>  Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available today to 
>> voters.  Keep that “I voted” sticker and Krispy Cream will give you a 
>> free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving free coffee, and many 
>> small businesses are having election day promotions that include 
>> discounts or out right freebies.
>>  Remember that many service men and women have fought and died for your 
>> right to vote so let’s not let them down and make sure we take advantage 
>> of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our right to vote.  Now 
>> get out there and be safe everyone.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> --

Re: Betternet VPN

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Shawn,

I'm actually more familiar with a service called "Hide my Ass," but that 
being said, I'm curious. Is there any cost for this app?

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Cc: "'Adrian Leong' via VIPhone" 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:53 PM
Subject: Betternet VPN


Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American 
iHeartRadio app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it 
has to offer that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own 
radio station and so on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have 
a few questions. Does anyone know how much cell data will be used if I 
choose to use it out and about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which 
apps use data? I went into cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in 
the list of apps that use cell data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm 
writing to both lists because I don't know if one or the other knows too 
much about VPN's. Thanks.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: 2016 Macbook Pro

[Terje Strømberg]

Good to see now that SSD is the most best - important uppgrade theese days 
compared to spinning drives. Remember about 8-9 years ago when i uppgraded from 
spinning to SSD drive on a windows laptop. Fun. Next year every mac have SSD i 
guess. 

Take care


> 11. nov. 2016 kl. 01.49 skrev Sarai Bucciarelli :
> 
> Would definitely get more SSD space. Then have to decide about ram or 
> processor upgrade. Want to future proof.
>> On Nov 9, 2016, at 12:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Ram is also important though let’s not sell it short.  More is better if you 
>> can afford it and it’s usually a pretty small money bump for a good 
>> performance bump.
>> 
>> Apple though is including 8gb minimum now which is a nice step and as 
>> someone mentioned a good amount for a lot of use cases.  Even more storage 
>> is good but for me it’s better to have SSD storage and less of it than 
>> rotating storage and more.  SSD is so fast and such a boost in performance.
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I definitely would have gone with more storage over more ram.
 On Nov 6, 2016, at 1:02 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 Cheers for this, it’s interesting reading,
  
 I’m surprized about the storage size though, I would have gone more but up 
 to the individual
  
  
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tree Mabry
 Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 3:56 PM
 To: MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: 2016 Macbook Pro
  finitely get SSD.
 I ordered the 13 inch, non touch bar model, with the 2.0 processor, 256 
 gigs of storage, and 16 gigs of ram. A few days ago I wrote an extensive 
 post on Apple Vis, about what went into this decision; I have copied and 
 pasted some of that post below; I’m sorry that it’s a bit long. You can 
 read the full post at this link.
 http://www.applevis.com/forum/hardware-accessories/why-i-just-ordered-2016-mac-book-pro-function-keys
  
 I think that the people who have expressed a desire to stay on top of the 
 latest trends in user interface might be especially interested in my 
 paragraph about Apple’s official touch bar user interface guidelines.
 First let me say that I was pretty open to the idea of the touch bar last 
 week as I watched the Apple event. I felt pretty confident that Apple 
 would make sure that this new interface worked with voice over. In the 
 days after the event I hungrily tried to find any information about how 
 exactly Voice Over accessibility would work with the touch bar. Ironically 
 when I did come across some specifics they both encouraged me, and at the 
 same time helped me decide that I have no interest in the touch bar. The 
 best info I have found so far about Voice Over and the touch bar comes 
 from I accessibility, here is a link to the relevant article.
 http://iaccessibility.net/index.php/2016/10/28/voiceover-at-the-bar/
 The main takeaways are, you can use the number keys as function keys, 
 there are keystrokes for raising and lowering volume, and to interact with 
 sliders on the touch bar you have to double tap and hold, wait for a tone, 
 and then slide your finger. I think the volume keystrokes, and the number 
 keys acting as function keys makes a lot of sense, and I'm really glad 
 Apple is doing things that way. However, as soon as I realized how 
 relieved I was about these changes, I realized the relief was based around 
 me being able to avoid using the touch bar.
 Basically I do not believe that the touch bar is going to make many things 
 more efficient or easier for voice over users. Take the sliders I 
 previously mentioned. I would much rather turn down brightness by simply 
 holding down a key, instead of the three step process voice over users 
 will have to navigate.
 To some up my thoughts about touch bar and accessibility, I believe the 
 experience will be fine, but I do not think it will be better then what we 
 already have.
 I know this post is getting very very long, but I want to now get into the 
 primary reasons I have decided to pass on the touch bar, and they have 
 little to do with voice over Accessibility.
 1. I do not believe the touch bar will offer anything to power users who 
 know there keystrokes.
 If you are an IOS user who wants to get into the mac, the touch bar might 
 be a good way for you to uncover features you didn't know about. But as a 
 long time mac user who knows the keystrokes by heart, it doesn't seem like 
 the touch bar is going to do much that keystrokes can't already do. One of 
 the best list of touch bar features I know about comes from I more.
 http://www.imore.com/mac-touch-bar
 I have gone through this list, and almost everything in it is either 
>>

Betternet VPN

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi guys. So tonight I was being adventurous and I downloaded an app called 
Betternet which is a VPN service. I wanted to explore the American iHeartRadio 
app because I heard that you can do more things with it that it has to offer 
that the Canadian app doesn't have such as making your own radio station and so 
on. So I'm now connected to a US VPN server but I have a few questions. Does 
anyone know how much cell data will be used if I choose to use it out and 
about? If it uses a lot, where can I change which apps use data? I went into 
cellular data in settings and I didn't see it in the list of apps that use cell 
data. Any help would be appreciated. I'm writing to both lists because I don't 
know if one or the other knows too much about VPN's. Thanks.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Installing SSD

[E.T.]

   Maybe what I will do is rename this drive with (_ ___) then 
beat it to pieces. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 6:26 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. another thing people do is use a magnet to erase them.  I believe they 
call them degausser or something I may have the spelling wrong.  Basically, you 
move the drive in a figure 8 pattern over the surface and it scrambles 
everything on the disk.  You could also go the hammer method or just take a 
screw driver and open up the drive and pull out the platter.  Once you touch 
the platter you’ll ruin everything on the surface and you can feel how a hard 
drive works to boot.  It actually is a pretty cool process.  I have a friend 
who converted one in to a door bell.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:55 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  Oh. a USB enclosure huh. Might be something to look into though I have enough 
hardware laying around to keep track of.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 1:52 PM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Sorry about that! Usually people erase the old drive with disc
utility and put it in a usb enclosure to use as a back up drive.
Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:

   I am talking about the existing internal drive. I am more curious
what others do with the old drive as I am sure mine will fall into a
hiding spot to be forgotten. So think it best to secure erase it first
and know how long it might take.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 1:28 PM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
existing drive onto the SSD.
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:

   When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
days? (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
at:
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn -
you
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionar

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[E.T.]

   One month?! You will break that pledge at the speed of light. Its 
not in your nature to stick to this one. Trust me. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 6:51 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

You wrote:

I hereby pledge to not post anything off-topic for at least a month no
matter how provoked I feel. Anybody with me?

I'm in!

Chris.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You wrote:

I hereby pledge to 
not post anything off-topic for at least a month no matter how provoked 
I feel. Anybody with me?


I'm in!

Chris.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Installing SSD

[Scott Granados]

E.T. another thing people do is use a magnet to erase them.  I believe they 
call them degausser or something I may have the spelling wrong.  Basically, you 
move the drive in a figure 8 pattern over the surface and it scrambles 
everything on the disk.  You could also go the hammer method or just take a 
screw driver and open up the drive and pull out the platter.  Once you touch 
the platter you’ll ruin everything on the surface and you can feel how a hard 
drive works to boot.  It actually is a pretty cool process.  I have a friend 
who converted one in to a door bell.

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:55 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Oh. a USB enclosure huh. Might be something to look into though I have 
> enough hardware laying around to keep track of.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 11/10/2016 1:52 PM, jeff `greene wrote:
>> Hi, Sorry about that! Usually people erase the old drive with disc
>> utility and put it in a usb enclosure to use as a back up drive.
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:
>>>I am talking about the existing internal drive. I am more curious
>>> what others do with the old drive as I am sure mine will fall into a
>>> hiding spot to be forgotten. So think it best to secure erase it first
>>> and know how long it might take.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   Without H2O there is no life!
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 1:28 PM, jeff `greene wrote:
 Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
 existing drive onto the SSD.
 Hope this helps! Jeff
 
 
 On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:
>When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
> erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
> days? (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
> or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn -
> you
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are sub

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Todor Fassl]

I like the way the moderator runs this list. People are crazy. We've all 
demonstrated that. He/she lets us run our course. So I hearby pledge to 
not post anything off-topic for at least a month no matter how provoked 
I feel. Anybody with me?







On 11/10/2016 08:11 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

Don’t you think pimping an apple list on another apple list is bad form?

I see Kliph and I providing pointers to  our various off topic alternatives so 
it helps improve the signal to noise ratio on list for folks not interested in 
waiting through the excess off topic messages but really, poaching users from 
one apple list to another really seems low.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:47 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well Karen, I don't have the answer to your question. But the founder of the 
list what's was originally Rick Harmon, would probably be able to answer your 
question better than I can. I just happen to be one of the administrators of 
the group. He handed over to myself, And Alan Robbins to take care of whenever 
his server was acting up. And we have just been going strong since then.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

May I ask a question? voiceover  is used by a variety of populations, how does  
it serve inclusion to name a list blind apples?  as if everyone who may   share 
the diagnosis has exactly the same visual acuity, abilities, needs, or 
preferences?  two sides of the same coin fosters understanding...how exactly?
Just curious,


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Joseph Hudson wrote:


The one I am referring to is blind apples. Apply, and I will approve. The 
webpage to apply is the second one in my signature.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I tried 
I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is not 
welcoming to everyone.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list management. 
Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The owner shows up 
every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the running of the 
list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing 
correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. An

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Scott Granados]

Don’t you think pimping an apple list on another apple list is bad form?

I see Kliph and I providing pointers to  our various off topic alternatives so 
it helps improve the signal to noise ratio on list for folks not interested in 
waiting through the excess off topic messages but really, poaching users from 
one apple list to another really seems low.

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:47 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well Karen, I don't have the answer to your question. But the founder of the 
> list what's was originally Rick Harmon, would probably be able to answer your 
> question better than I can. I just happen to be one of the administrators of 
> the group. He handed over to myself, And Alan Robbins to take care of 
> whenever his server was acting up. And we have just been going strong since 
> then.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> May I ask a question? voiceover  is used by a variety of populations, how 
>> does  it serve inclusion to name a list blind apples?  as if everyone who 
>> may   share the diagnosis has exactly the same visual acuity, abilities, 
>> needs, or preferences?  two sides of the same coin fosters 
>> understanding...how exactly?
>> Just curious,
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Joseph Hudson wrote:
>> 
>>> The one I am referring to is blind apples. Apply, and I will approve. The 
>>> webpage to apply is the second one in my signature.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for the blind
>>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>>> 
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
 tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about 
 is not welcoming to everyone.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
> And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
> now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always 
> very relevant.
> Joseph Hudson
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
>> The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
>> cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
>> it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Scott Granados]

I have a question, if someone has a problem with the way the list is moderated 
shouldn’t they take it up with the moderator, off list and professionally 
instead of crying to the list and creating more traffic?  Don’t we owe Mark and 
Kara that level of decency when it’s an individual concern?

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 6:08 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> This is your opinion that a list could not be run correctly as you forget, 
> everyone has a different style of running lists.  I think Mark likes to see 
> if topics close themselves.  I think he understands that we are all adults 
> and we present ourselves in a proper manor of professionalism and courtesy.  
> If a topic does not fizzle out, then he will step in.
> 
> Now I am sure if you ran a list, you would do things differently so it's down 
> to how one interprets messages isn't it?
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 23:00, gs > > wrote:
>> 
>> Increment the count. It took a while for me to respond at all. Now I'll 
>> respond to any of them. You've done so yourself. The point is that this list 
>> is not being run correctly and I would usually honor the owner/moderator 
>> requests to leave these posts off the lists. I'm tired of it. If I am 
>> removed then so be it. If this is what it takes to get some attention than 
>> I'll endure the consequences. BTW: this is the last response to the list. I 
>> feel that by this time I have made the point if it is to be made.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Todor Fassl > > wrote:
>> 
>> By my count, this is at least your fourth message about the off-topic 
>> messages on this list. Seems a tad ironic to me. Bet you respond publically 
>> to this one too.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 04:48 PM, gs wrote:
>>> Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
>>> involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by 
>>> it or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple 
>>> statements of facts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate 
>>> the list. Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
>>> around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  
>>> Sorry but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not 
>>> take his duties seriously on this list.
 On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs >>> > wrote:
 
 Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
 really value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually 
 get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented 
 political opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean 
 an increase in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of 
 technical knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an 
 Apple product.
 
 In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
 individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I 
 would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda 
 in the thread.
 
 Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem 
 to be fulfilled on this list at this point.
 
 There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create 
 one myself.
 
 Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org 
  with subscribe in the 
 subject.
 
 If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson >>> > wrote:
 
 Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
 And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
 now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
 relevant.
 Joseph Hudson
 Group administrator for the following
 groups
 chat
 http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org 
 
 blind apples
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
  
 
 
 blind square GPS
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind handyman
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 iPad help for the blind
 https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
 
 Email
 jhud7...@gmail.com
 I device support
 

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

Dude... Take it PRIVATE! It is just plain stupid to have a thread about 
off-topic posts that is longer than the off-topic thread. Every message 
you post makes you look like a bigger hypocrite than the last. How in 
the f**k can you not understand that? You don't like the way the list is 
run, we get that. Go away.






On 11/10/2016 07:50 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
And, in GS's defense, it's often also how I! too, have seen things. I 
love this list, but something's gotta give.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "gs" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming


Ok, Tim, I'll make an exception as is apparently frequently made here. 
I'll respond again. I agree that I expressed frustration and emotion 
and that it wasn't simply a statement of fact. It's the facts as I see 
them.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

I disagree.  There was not simply a statement of fact.  Read your own 
post to verify.  You expressed opinions on how you believe the List 
should be run.  You expressed emotion with respect to your frustration 
that the List wasn't being run in the manner you thought it should 
be.  These, again, are not facts, but opinions and the occasional 
attack on the actions, or lack of actions, of the Moderator.


Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:48, gs  wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the 
moderator's involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. 
Whether you stand by it or not, the results speak for themselves. 
There is no attack. simple statements of facts.




On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to 
moderate the list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our 
lives do not evolve around lists as you don't know what priorities 
that person might have. Sorry but I won't stand by listening to 
someone saying that Mark does not take his duties seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
really value this list and know that even in the threads that I 
eventually get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant 
subject of demented political opinions, there might be a nugget of 
information that will mean an increase in productivity or a keystroke 
or an update or a piece of technical knowledge that will make a huge 
difference in the way I use an Apple product.


In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that 
I would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the 
propaganda in the thread.


Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not 
seem to be fulfilled on this list at this point.


There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just 
create one myself.


Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe 
in the subject.


If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop 
it. And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going 
on right now. There are some days that are busier than others. and 
it's always very relevant.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com 



blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com 



blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com 



iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the 
issues. The owner shows up every six months with some sort of 
apology and then cedes the running of the list to someone else who 
apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's 
not too much to ask.



It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this 
going on. You can come to the group that is below in my signature. 
We don't have junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for 

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

And, in GS's defense, it's often also how I! too, have seen things. I love 
this list, but something's gotta give.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "gs" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming


Ok, Tim, I'll make an exception as is apparently frequently made here. I'll 
respond again. I agree that I expressed frustration and emotion and that it 
wasn't simply a statement of fact. It's the facts as I see them.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

I disagree.  There was not simply a statement of fact.  Read your own post 
to verify.  You expressed opinions on how you believe the List should be 
run.  You expressed emotion with respect to your frustration that the List 
wasn't being run in the manner you thought it should be.  These, again, are 
not facts, but opinions and the occasional attack on the actions, or lack of 
actions, of the Moderator.


Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:48, gs  wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by 
it or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple 
statements of facts.




On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate 
the list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have. 
Sorry but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not 
take his duties seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
really value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually 
get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented 
political opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean 
an increase in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of 
technical knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an 
Apple product.


In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I 
would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda 
in the thread.


Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem 
to be fulfilled on this list at this point.


There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create 
one myself.


Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in 
the subject.


If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
relevant.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.



It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Agreed.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "gs" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming


Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by 
it or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple 
statements of facts.




On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate 
the list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have. 
Sorry but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not 
take his duties seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
really value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually 
get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented 
political opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean 
an increase in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of 
technical knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an 
Apple product.


In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I 
would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda 
in the thread.


Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem 
to be fulfilled on this list at this point.


There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create 
one myself.


Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in 
the subject.


If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
relevant.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.



It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:

I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of 
it. This should have been addressed before and you need to remove 
people instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.

On Nov 10, 

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Kawell, we're not attacking him personally. Heck, we're not even attacking 
what he's doing. We're only stating that things could have been handled 
differently. We never said that Mr. Right was a bad boy.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Kawal Gucukoglu" 

To: "Macvisionaries" 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming


It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate 
the list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have. 
Sorry but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not 
take his duties seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
really value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually 
get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented 
political opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean 
an increase in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of 
technical knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an 
Apple product.


In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I 
would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda 
in the thread.


Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem 
to be fulfilled on this list at this point.


There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create 
one myself.


Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in 
the subject.


If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
relevant.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.



It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.

Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:

I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of 
it. This should have been addressed before and you need to remove 
people instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Everyone,

This thread is now consider

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I wasn't going to contribute to this thread, but let me just throw in my two 
cents, then leave it alone after that point... There have been repeated issues 
on this list that I've addressed with Mark. I won't go into the specifics, but 
we'll just leave it to say it took about literally 7 or 8 offenses along with 
an equal amount of off list notes to him before he even sort a publicly 
addressed the matter.

What the matter is isn't important, nor anyone's specific business, but rest 
assured, it took a lot before I saw him finally react. Honestly, anymore, I'm 
not sure how to interpret his reaction. On the one hand I feel he took over, 
but on the other hand, I feel like it was kind of a, "Fine, I addressed it. 
Happy now?" approach. I'm not sure which it was, nor am I going to sit here and 
try speculating either way.

I do however agree that whoever started this initial thread which Mark has 
closed, thank you by the way, never should have occured on a list like this, 
and was totally irrelavent. As much as I hate to say it, I totally have to be 
on GS's side with this, and I unfortunately have to completely echo their 
opinion.  Mark's a great guy, and I truly think he cares, and I don't think 
it's so much he's too leniant, as much as I feel he says he's gonna do 
something, but then, like GS said, he then procrastinates it. I don't know his 
whole reasoning for that, maybe it's legit, maybe it's not. I don't know. I 
just know what I observe, and, what I up to this point have observed is someone 
who you bring a concern to, but then, they'll do anything and everything to not 
have to deal with it unless you sweet talk them, and even then, you may or may 
not get results. It's truly a gamble in a hat.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: gs 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:32 PM
  Subject: Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming


  Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to with 
50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase in 
productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge that 
will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 


  In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
thread.


  Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
be fulfilled on this list at this point. 


  There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
myself.


  Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
subject.


  If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.


  On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:


  Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
  Joseph Hudson 
  Group administrator for the following
  groups
  chat
  http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
  blind apples
  
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

  blind square GPS
  
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

  blind handyman
  
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

  iPad help for the blind
  https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

  Email
  jhud7...@gmail.com
  I device support
  Telephone
  2543007667
  Skype
  joseph.hudson89
  facebook
  https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
  Twitter
  https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

  FaceTime/iMessage
  jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just 
run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/ch

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

Dude... You are making a complete fool of yourself. You are embarrassing 
yourself. Press the freakin' delete key. Just stop! Put the keyboard 
down and walk away.





On 11/10/2016 05:10 PM, gs wrote:

Ok, Tim, I'll make an exception as is apparently frequently made here. I'll 
respond again. I agree that I expressed frustration and emotion and that it 
wasn't simply a statement of fact. It's the facts as I see them.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

I disagree.  There was not simply a statement of fact.  Read your own post to 
verify.  You expressed opinions on how you believe the List should be run.  You 
expressed emotion with respect to your frustration that the List wasn't being 
run in the manner you thought it should be.  These, again, are not facts, but 
opinions and the occasional attack on the actions, or lack of actions, of the 
Moderator.

Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:48, gs  wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by it 
or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple statements 
of facts.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to with 
50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase in 
productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge that 
will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product.

In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some individuals, 
some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would have otherwise 
missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the thread.

Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to be 
fulfilled on this list at this point.

There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
myself.

Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
subject.

If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list management. 
Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The owner shows up 
every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the running of the 
list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing 
correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https:

Re: 2016 Macbook Pro

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

Would definitely get more SSD space. Then have to decide about ram or processor 
upgrade. Want to future proof.
> On Nov 9, 2016, at 12:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Ram is also important though let’s not sell it short.  More is better if you 
> can afford it and it’s usually a pretty small money bump for a good 
> performance bump.
> 
> Apple though is including 8gb minimum now which is a nice step and as someone 
> mentioned a good amount for a lot of use cases.  Even more storage is good 
> but for me it’s better to have SSD storage and less of it than rotating 
> storage and more.  SSD is so fast and such a boost in performance.
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli > > wrote:
>> 
>> I definitely would have gone with more storage over more ram.
>>> On Nov 6, 2016, at 1:02 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cheers for this, it’s interesting reading,
>>>  
>>> I’m surprized about the storage size though, I would have gone more but up 
>>> to the individual
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Tree Mabry
>>> Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 3:56 PM
>>> To: MacVisionaries >> >
>>> Subject: Re: 2016 Macbook Pro
>>>  finitely get SSD.
>>> I ordered the 13 inch, non touch bar model, with the 2.0 processor, 256 
>>> gigs of storage, and 16 gigs of ram. A few days ago I wrote an extensive 
>>> post on Apple Vis, about what went into this decision; I have copied and 
>>> pasted some of that post below; I’m sorry that it’s a bit long. You can 
>>> read the full post at this link.
>>> http://www.applevis.com/forum/hardware-accessories/why-i-just-ordered-2016-mac-book-pro-function-keys
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I think that the people who have expressed a desire to stay on top of the 
>>> latest trends in user interface might be especially interested in my 
>>> paragraph about Apple’s official touch bar user interface guidelines.
>>> First let me say that I was pretty open to the idea of the touch bar last 
>>> week as I watched the Apple event. I felt pretty confident that Apple would 
>>> make sure that this new interface worked with voice over. In the days after 
>>> the event I hungrily tried to find any information about how exactly Voice 
>>> Over accessibility would work with the touch bar. Ironically when I did 
>>> come across some specifics they both encouraged me, and at the same time 
>>> helped me decide that I have no interest in the touch bar. The best info I 
>>> have found so far about Voice Over and the touch bar comes from I 
>>> accessibility, here is a link to the relevant article.
>>> http://iaccessibility.net/index.php/2016/10/28/voiceover-at-the-bar/ 
>>> 
>>> The main takeaways are, you can use the number keys as function keys, there 
>>> are keystrokes for raising and lowering volume, and to interact with 
>>> sliders on the touch bar you have to double tap and hold, wait for a tone, 
>>> and then slide your finger. I think the volume keystrokes, and the number 
>>> keys acting as function keys makes a lot of sense, and I'm really glad 
>>> Apple is doing things that way. However, as soon as I realized how relieved 
>>> I was about these changes, I realized the relief was based around me being 
>>> able to avoid using the touch bar.
>>> Basically I do not believe that the touch bar is going to make many things 
>>> more efficient or easier for voice over users. Take the sliders I 
>>> previously mentioned. I would much rather turn down brightness by simply 
>>> holding down a key, instead of the three step process voice over users will 
>>> have to navigate.
>>> To some up my thoughts about touch bar and accessibility, I believe the 
>>> experience will be fine, but I do not think it will be better then what we 
>>> already have.
>>> I know this post is getting very very long, but I want to now get into the 
>>> primary reasons I have decided to pass on the touch bar, and they have 
>>> little to do with voice over Accessibility.
>>> 1. I do not believe the touch bar will offer anything to power users who 
>>> know there keystrokes.
>>> If you are an IOS user who wants to get into the mac, the touch bar might 
>>> be a good way for you to uncover features you didn't know about. But as a 
>>> long time mac user who knows the keystrokes by heart, it doesn't seem like 
>>> the touch bar is going to do much that keystrokes can't already do. One of 
>>> the best list of touch bar features I know about comes from I more.
>>> http://www.imore.com/mac-touch-bar 
>>> I have gone through this list, and a

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Kliphton Miller]

As I remember it, you weren’t removed, you just didn’t get approved when the 
list moved.  Was a team decision and we felt it was best at that time.  Take it 
personal, let it roll off your back, but still was and still is a team making 
the decisions, not just 1 person.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:37 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
>  I don't take kindly to being removed with no explanation, as that was most 
> unfair.I broke no rules by the way at the time so I'll stick to what I said, 
> and you can lump it.  What I do no someone took offence to my posting on that 
> list, although I was very courteous as some don't know what that is.
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:31, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s welcome to all who follow the rules.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
>>> tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is 
>>> not welcoming to everyone.  
 On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
 
 Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
 And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
 now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
 relevant.
 Joseph Hudson 
 Group administrator for the following
 groups
 chat
 http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
 blind apples
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind square GPS
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind handyman
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 iPad help for the blind
 https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
 
 Email
 jhud7...@gmail.com
 I device support
 Telephone
 2543007667
 Skype
 joseph.hudson89
 facebook
 https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
 Twitter
 https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
 
 FaceTime/iMessage
 jhud7...@yahoo.com
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
> The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
> cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
> it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
> 
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
> junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
>> If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>> 
>> Lighten up, Francis.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of 
>>> it. This should have been addressed before and you need to remove 
>>> people instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Everyone,
>>> 
>>> This thread is now considered closed.
>>> 
>>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute 
>>> to this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

Ok, Tim, I'll make an exception as is apparently frequently made here. I'll 
respond again. I agree that I expressed frustration and emotion and that it 
wasn't simply a statement of fact. It's the facts as I see them.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

I disagree.  There was not simply a statement of fact.  Read your own post to 
verify.  You expressed opinions on how you believe the List should be run.  You 
expressed emotion with respect to your frustration that the List wasn't being 
run in the manner you thought it should be.  These, again, are not facts, but 
opinions and the occasional attack on the actions, or lack of actions, of the 
Moderator.

Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:48, gs  wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by it 
or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple statements 
of facts.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge 
> that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 
> 
> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
> thread.
> 
> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
> be fulfilled on this list at this point. 
> 
> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
> myself.
> 
> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
> subject.
> 
> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephon

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

This is your opinion that a list could not be run correctly as you forget, 
everyone has a different style of running lists.  I think Mark likes to see if 
topics close themselves.  I think he understands that we are all adults and we 
present ourselves in a proper manor of professionalism and courtesy.  If a 
topic does not fizzle out, then he will step in.

Now I am sure if you ran a list, you would do things differently so it's down 
to how one interprets messages isn't it?
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 23:00, gs  wrote:
> 
> Increment the count. It took a while for me to respond at all. Now I'll 
> respond to any of them. You've done so yourself. The point is that this list 
> is not being run correctly and I would usually honor the owner/moderator 
> requests to leave these posts off the lists. I'm tired of it. If I am removed 
> then so be it. If this is what it takes to get some attention than I'll 
> endure the consequences. BTW: this is the last response to the list. I feel 
> that by this time I have made the point if it is to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Todor Fassl  > wrote:
> 
> By my count, this is at least your fourth message about the off-topic 
> messages on this list. Seems a tad ironic to me. Bet you respond publically 
> to this one too.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 04:48 PM, gs wrote:
>> Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
>> involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by 
>> it or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple 
>> statements of facts.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate 
>> the list. Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
>> around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  
>> Sorry but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not 
>> take his duties seriously on this list.
>>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I 
>>> really value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually 
>>> get to with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented 
>>> political opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean 
>>> an increase in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of 
>>> technical knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an 
>>> Apple product.
>>> 
>>> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
>>> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I 
>>> would have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in 
>>> the thread.
>>> 
>>> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem 
>>> to be fulfilled on this list at this point.
>>> 
>>> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create 
>>> one myself.
>>> 
>>> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org 
>>>  with subscribe in the 
>>> subject.
>>> 
>>> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
>>> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
>>> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
>>> relevant.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org 
>>> 
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for the blind
>>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>>> 
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
 
 I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
 management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
 owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes 
 the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it 
 either. Ju

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

Increment the count. It took a while for me to respond at all. Now I'll respond 
to any of them. You've done so yourself. The point is that this list is not 
being run correctly and I would usually honor the owner/moderator requests to 
leave these posts off the lists. I'm tired of it. If I am removed then so be 
it. If this is what it takes to get some attention than I'll endure the 
consequences. BTW: this is the last response to the list. I feel that by this 
time I have made the point if it is to be made.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

By my count, this is at least your fourth message about the off-topic messages 
on this list. Seems a tad ironic to me. Bet you respond publically to this one 
too.



On 11/10/2016 04:48 PM, gs wrote:
> Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
> involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by 
> it or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple 
> statements of facts.
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
> list. Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve 
> around lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry 
> but I won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his 
> duties seriously on this list.
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
>> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
>> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
>> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
>> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical 
>> knowledge that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product.
>> 
>> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
>> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
>> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
>> thread.
>> 
>> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
>> be fulfilled on this list at this point.
>> 
>> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
>> myself.
>> 
>> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
>> subject.
>> 
>> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
>> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
>> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
>> relevant.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes 
>>> the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it 
>>> either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's pathetic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for th

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I disagree.  There was not simply a statement of fact.  Read your own post to 
verify.  You expressed opinions on how you believe the List should be run.  You 
expressed emotion with respect to your frustration that the List wasn't being 
run in the manner you thought it should be.  These, again, are not facts, but 
opinions and the occasional attack on the actions, or lack of actions, of the 
Moderator.

Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:48, gs  wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by it 
or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple statements 
of facts.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge 
> that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 
> 
> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
> thread.
> 
> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
> be fulfilled on this list at this point. 
> 
> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
> myself.
> 
> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
> subject.
> 
> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I waste a con

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

By my count, this is at least your fourth message about the off-topic 
messages on this list. Seems a tad ironic to me. Bet you respond 
publically to this one too.




On 11/10/2016 04:48 PM, gs wrote:

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by it 
or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple statements 
of facts.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to with 
50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase in 
productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge that 
will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product.

In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some individuals, 
some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would have otherwise 
missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the thread.

Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to be 
fulfilled on this list at this point.

There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
myself.

Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
subject.

If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list management. 
Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The owner shows up 
every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the running of the 
list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing 
correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:

I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day because 
it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If you have 
the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:

Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. This 
should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead of 
making a generic announcement such as the one below.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Everyone,

This thread is now conside

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

Stand by what you want. The list reflects the results of the moderator's 
involvement. Rather silly to post something like this. Whether you stand by it 
or not, the results speak for themselves. There is no attack. simple statements 
of facts.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge 
> that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 
> 
> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
> thread.
> 
> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
> be fulfilled on this list at this point. 
> 
> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
> myself.
> 
> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
> subject.
> 
> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lighten up, Francis.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
 Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
 This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
 inst

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Joseph Hudson]

Well Karen, I don't have the answer to your question. But the founder of the 
list what's was originally Rick Harmon, would probably be able to answer your 
question better than I can. I just happen to be one of the administrators of 
the group. He handed over to myself, And Alan Robbins to take care of whenever 
his server was acting up. And we have just been going strong since then.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

 blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> May I ask a question? voiceover  is used by a variety of populations, how 
> does  it serve inclusion to name a list blind apples?  as if everyone who may 
>   share the diagnosis has exactly the same visual acuity, abilities, needs, 
> or preferences?  two sides of the same coin fosters understanding...how 
> exactly?
> Just curious,
> 
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Joseph Hudson wrote:
> 
>> The one I am referring to is blind apples. Apply, and I will approve. The 
>> webpage to apply is the second one in my signature.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
>>> tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is 
>>> not welcoming to everyone.
 On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
 
 Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. 
 And as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right 
 now. There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
 relevant.
 Joseph Hudson
 Group administrator for the following
 groups
 chat
 http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
 blind apples
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind square GPS
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind handyman
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 iPad help for the blind
 https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
 
 Email
 jhud7...@gmail.com
 I device support
 Telephone
 2543007667
 Skype
 joseph.hudson89
 facebook
 https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
 Twitter
 https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
 
 FaceTime/iMessage
 jhud7...@yahoo.com
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. 
> The owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then 
> cedes the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get 
> it either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
> 
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
> junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
> Joseph Hudson
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mai

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Tim Kilburn]

Plus 1 on this one Kawal.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Nov 10, 2016, at 15:42, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge 
> that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 
> 
> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
> thread.
> 
> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
> be fulfilled on this list at this point. 
> 
> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
> myself.
> 
> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
> subject.
> 
> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lighten up, Francis.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
 Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
 This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
 instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Everyone,
 
 This thread is now considered c

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

It is most unfair to attack someone who has given up his time to moderate the 
list.  Please bear in mind we all have lives and our lives do not evolve around 
lists as you don't know what priorities that person might have.  Sorry but I 
won't stand by listening to someone saying that Mark does not take his duties 
seriously on this list.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:32, gs  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
> value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to 
> with 50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
> opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase 
> in productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge 
> that will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 
> 
> In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some 
> individuals, some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would 
> have otherwise missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the 
> thread.
> 
> Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to 
> be fulfilled on this list at this point. 
> 
> There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
> myself.
> 
> Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org with subscribe in the 
> subject.
> 
> If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lighten up, Francis.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
 Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
 This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
 instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Everyone,
 
 This thread is now considered closed.
 
 Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
 this thread.
 
 Thank

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Karen Lewellen]

May I ask a question? voiceover  is used by a variety of populations, how 
does  it serve inclusion to name a list blind apples?  as if everyone who 
may   share the diagnosis has exactly the same visual acuity, abilities, 
needs, or preferences?  two sides of the same coin fosters 
understanding...how exactly?

Just curious,


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Joseph Hudson wrote:


The one I am referring to is blind apples. Apply, and I will approve. The 
webpage to apply is the second one in my signature.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I tried 
I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is not 
welcoming to everyone.

On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list management. 
Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The owner shows up 
every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the running of the 
list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing 
correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com


On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:

I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day because 
it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If you have 
the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:

Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. This 
should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead of 
making a generic announcement such as the one below.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Everyone,

This thread is now considered closed.

Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to this 
thread.

Thank you,

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Global Warming

Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come up 
with. If you want to clai

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

  I don't take kindly to being removed with no explanation, as that was most 
unfair.I broke no rules by the way at the time so I'll stick to what I said, 
and you can lump it.  What I do no someone took offence to my posting on that 
list, although I was very courteous as some don't know what that is.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:31, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> It’s welcome to all who follow the rules.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
>> tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is 
>> not welcoming to everyone.  
>>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
>>> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
>>> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
>>> relevant.
>>> Joseph Hudson 
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for the blind
>>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>>> 
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
 
 I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
 management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
 owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes 
 the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it 
 either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
 
 
 It's pathetic.
 
 
 
 
 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
 
 If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
 You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have 
 junk like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
 Joseph Hudson 
 Group administrator for the following
 groups
 chat
 http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
 blind apples
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind square GPS
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 blind handyman
 http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
 
 iPad help for the blind
 https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
 
 Email
 jhud7...@gmail.com
 I device support
 Telephone
 2543007667
 Skype
 joseph.hudson89
 facebook
 https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
 Twitter
 https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
 
 FaceTime/iMessage
 jhud7...@yahoo.com
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
> If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> Lighten up, Francis.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of 
>> it. This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
>> instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Everyone,
>> 
>> This thread is now considered closed.
>> 
>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute 
>> to this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Global Warming
>> 
>> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
>> come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
>> volcanos, you prove it.
>> 
>> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. Al

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

Well, I'm being very honest here. I don't have the time to do this. I really 
value this list and know that even in the threads that I eventually get to with 
50 or more messages with the predominant subject of demented political 
opinions, there might be a nugget of information that will mean an increase in 
productivity or a keystroke or an update or a piece of technical knowledge that 
will make a huge difference in the way I use an Apple product. 

In fact, I have found buried in the wordy, arrogant posts of some individuals, 
some really priceless tips for accomplishing tasks that I would have otherwise 
missed if I had not read the rest of the propaganda in the thread.

Nevertheless, the owner/moderator has a responsibility that does not seem to be 
fulfilled on this list at this point. 

There are a boat load of mailing lists but I have decided to just create one 
myself.

Send request to macwithvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org 
 with subscribe in the subject.

If it takes off that's fine. If it does not, that's fine too.

On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
> 
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
> can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
> this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>> 
>> Lighten up, Francis.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
>>> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
>>> instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Everyone,
>>> 
>>> This thread is now considered closed.
>>> 
>>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
>>> this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Global Warming
>>> 
>>> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
>>> come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
>>> volcanos, you prove it.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you a

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Kliphton Miller]

It’s welcome to all who follow the rules.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
> tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is 
> not welcoming to everyone.  
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
>> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
>> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
>> relevant.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes 
>>> the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it 
>>> either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's pathetic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>>> Joseph Hudson 
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for the blind
>>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>>> 
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
 
 I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
 because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
 If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
 
 Lighten up, Francis.
 
 
 
 On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
> instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> This thread is now considered closed.
> 
> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
> this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Global Warming
> 
> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
> come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
> volcanos, you prove it.
> 
> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up 
> articles from scientific journals that show that certain climate models 
> have predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for 
> by chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
> experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due 
> to the greenhouse g

Re: Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Joseph Hudson]

The one I am referring to is blind apples. Apply, and I will approve. The 
webpage to apply is the second one in my signature.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

 blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I 
> tried I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is 
> not welcoming to everyone.  
>> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
>> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
>> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
>> relevant.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes 
>>> the running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it 
>>> either. Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's pathetic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>>> Joseph Hudson 
>>> Group administrator for the following
>>> groups
>>> chat
>>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>>> blind apples
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind square GPS
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> blind handyman
>>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>>> 
>>> iPad help for the blind
>>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>>> 
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
 
 I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
 because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. 
 If you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
 
 Lighten up, Francis.
 
 
 
 On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
> instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> This thread is now considered closed.
> 
> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
> this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@goo

Peel the Apple or what ever it is called.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

So much for that list where we can discuss macs and stuff the last time I tried 
I was bootted off with no explanation so that list you go on about is not 
welcoming to everyone.  
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 22:05, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And 
> as far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. 
> There are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very 
> relevant.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
>> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
>> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
>> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
>> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
>> 
>> 
>> It's pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. 
>> You can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk 
>> like this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
>> Joseph Hudson 
>> Group administrator for the following
>> groups
>> chat
>> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
>> blind apples
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind square GPS
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> blind handyman
>> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
>> 
>> iPad help for the blind
>> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
>> 
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lighten up, Francis.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
 Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
 This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
 instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Everyone,
 
 This thread is now considered closed.
 
 Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
 this thread.
 
 Thank you,
 
 Mark
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
 Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Global Warming
 
 Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
 come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
 volcanos, you prove it.
 
 Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
 successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
 They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up 
 articles from scientific journals that show that certain climate models 
 have predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
 chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
 experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due 
 to the greenhouse gases we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that 
 evidence if you insist. But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make 
 me look stuff up just on the hope that I won't bother. If you really do 
 doubt something I say, by

OT The braille note and the index Everest D v4

[becky knaub]

Hi all,
Please email me off list if you have an answer to the following questions. I 
have a client who is a braille note apex user and we are trying to get her 
Everest braille embosser to work with her braille note. Unfortunately it will 
work some of the time and then start brailling a bunch of gibberish. If you 
know if the braille note actually works well with The Everest and the settings 
that I should need to check please let me know. If you could tell me why does 
braille correctly and then go to writing in gibberish that would be even more 
helpful. Thanks for your help. Please email me at becnc...@gmail.com.  if you 
can help answer these questions. I wasn't sure where else to turn.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Joseph Hudson]

Well just say this much, when an issue arises, we are quick to stop it. And as 
far as traffic, we just don't have a lot of traffic going on right now. There 
are some days that are busier than others. and it's always very relevant.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

 blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:57 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list 
> management. Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The 
> owner shows up every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the 
> running of the list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. 
> Just run the thing correctly. It's not too much to ask.
> 
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:
> 
> If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
> can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
> this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
> Joseph Hudson 
> Group administrator for the following
> groups
> chat
> http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
> blind apples
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind square GPS
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> blind handyman
> http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
> 
> iPad help for the blind
> https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind
> 
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
> 
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
>> 
>> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day 
>> because it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If 
>> you have the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>> 
>> Lighten up, Francis.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
>>> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people 
>>> instead of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Everyone,
>>> 
>>> This thread is now considered closed.
>>> 
>>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
>>> this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Global Warming
>>> 
>>> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
>>> come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
>>> volcanos, you prove it.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
>>> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
>>> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
>>> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have 
>>> predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
>>> chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
>>> experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due 
>>> to the greenhouse gases we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that 
>>> evidence if you insist. But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me 
>>> look stuff up just on the hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt 
>>> something I say, by all means challenge me to prove it.
>>> But please do not waste my time.
>>> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
 Hi Todor,
 Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
 Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
 Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
 With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" 
 is flawed to begin with.

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Kliphton Miller]

My list is very high traffic, and no off topic BS, not even for an hour.  the 
info is below
Frustrated with your Mac, I-device, or AppleTV?  New user and want quick 
efficient answers?  Or maybe you know apple products and want to contribute?  
Then come join a list where questions are always answered, and we are always 
patient with you.
Subscribe here: peel-the-apple+subscr...@groups.io 

Short quick getting started Tutorials: http://peeltheapple.wordpress.com/ 

Or just follow us on twitter https://twitter.com/PealTheApple 

And ask your question there.  All are welcome!


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:45 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead 
> of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> This thread is now considered closed.  
> 
> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
> this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Global Warming
> 
> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come 
> up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
> prove it.
> 
> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account. 
> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
> climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
> models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
> accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases 
> we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. 
> But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the 
> hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all 
> means challenge me to prove it. 
> But please do not waste my time.
> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>> Hi Todor,
>> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
>> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
>> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
>> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
>> flawed to begin with.
>> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
>> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
>> FYI
>> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
>> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at 
>> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
>>> 
>>> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
>>> cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
>>> physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
>>> Effect".
>>> 
>>> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
>>> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
>>> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that 
>>> lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more 
>>> than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred 
>>> million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and 
>>> natural gas being mined every day.
>>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
>>> /2241rank.html
>>> 
>>> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
>>> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those 
>>> calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate 
>>> because they can predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that 
>>> cannot be accounted for by chance. And these climate models consistently 
>>> show that we have indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to 
>>> cause the planet to heat up.
>>> 
>>> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
>>> caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called 
>>> "fuzzy thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by 
>>> saying the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to 
>>> drop dead from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is 
>>> not my job to

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

I like a lot of traffic if it is relevant. The problem here is list management. 
Nobody seems to be dedicated enough to address the issues. The owner shows up 
every six months with some sort of apology and then cedes the running of the 
list to someone else who apparently doesn't get it either. Just run the thing 
correctly. It's not too much to ask.


It's pathetic.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:53 PM, Joseph Hudson  wrote:

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day because 
> it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If you have 
> the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> Lighten up, Francis.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
>> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead 
>> of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Everyone,
>> 
>> This thread is now considered closed.
>> 
>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
>> this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Global Warming
>> 
>> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come 
>> up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, 
>> you prove it.
>> 
>> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
>> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
>> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
>> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have 
>> predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
>> chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
>> experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to 
>> the greenhouse gases we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that 
>> evidence if you insist. But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me 
>> look stuff up just on the hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt 
>> something I say, by all means challenge me to prove it.
>> But please do not waste my time.
>> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>>> Hi Todor,
>>> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
>>> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
>>> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
>>> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" 
>>> is flawed to begin with.
>>> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
>>> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
>>> FYI
>>> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
>>> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at
>>> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>>> 
 Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
 
 Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
 cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
 physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
 Effect".
 
 Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
 into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in 
 the earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that 
 lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to 
 more than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a 
 hundred million barrels per day. There are a

Re: Installing SSD

[E.T.]

   Oh. a USB enclosure huh. Might be something to look into though I 
have enough hardware laying around to keep track of.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 1:52 PM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Sorry about that! Usually people erase the old drive with disc
utility and put it in a usb enclosure to use as a back up drive.
Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:

I am talking about the existing internal drive. I am more curious
what others do with the old drive as I am sure mine will fall into a
hiding spot to be forgotten. So think it best to secure erase it first
and know how long it might take.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 1:28 PM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
existing drive onto the SSD.
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:

When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
days? (smiles)

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
at:
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn -
you
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Joseph Hudson]

If you're looking for a group, the doesn't have stuff like this going on. You 
can come to the group that is below in my signature. We don't have junk like 
this going on. And not a lot of traffic either.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org
blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com

blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com

 blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com

iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind

Email
jhud7...@gmail.com
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:50 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day because 
> it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If you have 
> the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> Lighten up, Francis.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
>> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
>> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead 
>> of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Everyone,
>> 
>> This thread is now considered closed.
>> 
>> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
>> this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Global Warming
>> 
>> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come 
>> up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, 
>> you prove it.
>> 
>> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
>> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
>> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
>> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have 
>> predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
>> chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
>> experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to 
>> the greenhouse gases we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that 
>> evidence if you insist. But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me 
>> look stuff up just on the hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt 
>> something I say, by all means challenge me to prove it.
>> But please do not waste my time.
>> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>>> Hi Todor,
>>> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
>>> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
>>> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
>>> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" 
>>> is flawed to begin with.
>>> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
>>> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
>>> FYI
>>> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
>>> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at
>>> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>>> 
 Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
 
 Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
 cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
 physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
 Effect".
 
 Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
 into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in 
 the earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that 
 lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to 
 more than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a 
 hundred million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal 
 and natural gas being mined every day.
 https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
 /2241rank.html
 
 Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
 effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those 
 calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate 
 because they can predict

Re: Installing SSD

[jeff `greene]

Hi, Sorry about that! Usually people erase the old drive with disc
utility and put it in a usb enclosure to use as a back up drive.
Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:
> I am talking about the existing internal drive. I am more curious
> what others do with the old drive as I am sure mine will fall into a
> hiding spot to be forgotten. So think it best to secure erase it first
> and know how long it might take.
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 11/10/2016 1:28 PM, jeff `greene wrote:
>> Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
>> existing drive onto the SSD.
>> Hope this helps! Jeff
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:
>>> When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
>>> erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
>>> days? (smiles)
>>>
>>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>Without H2O there is no life!
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>> if
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
>>> or
>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
>>> at:
>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn -
>>> you
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

I waste a considerable amount of my time reviewing this list each day because 
it is a valuable resource to those who use VoiceOver on the Mac. If you have 
the time to wade through the bull, do so. I don't.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:
> Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. 
> This should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead 
> of making a generic announcement such as the one below.
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> This thread is now considered closed.
> 
> Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to 
> this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Global Warming
> 
> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come 
> up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
> prove it.
> 
> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
> climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
> models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
> accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases 
> we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. 
> But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the 
> hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all 
> means challenge me to prove it.
> But please do not waste my time.
> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>> Hi Todor,
>> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
>> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
>> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
>> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
>> flawed to begin with.
>> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
>> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
>> FYI
>> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
>> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at
>> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
>>> 
>>> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
>>> cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
>>> physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
>>> Effect".
>>> 
>>> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
>>> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
>>> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that 
>>> lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more 
>>> than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred 
>>> million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and 
>>> natural gas being mined every day.
>>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
>>> /2241rank.html
>>> 
>>> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
>>> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those 
>>> calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate 
>>> because they can predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that 
>>> cannot be accounted for by chance. And these climate models consistently 
>>> show that we have indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to 
>>> cause the planet to heat up.
>>> 
>>> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
>>> caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called 
>>> "fuzzy thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by 
>>> saying the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to 
>>> drop dead from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is 
>>> not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 facts 
>>>  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is 
>>> the flaw?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
 Hi Scott,
 Your absolutely 100% correct again!
 Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
 warming"  out of the water!
 How much carbon does a average

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

Lighten up, Francis.



On 11/10/2016 03:45 PM, gs wrote:

Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. This 
should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead of 
making a generic announcement such as the one below.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Everyone,

This thread is now considered closed.

Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to this 
thread.

Thank you,

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Global Warming

Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come up 
with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
prove it.

Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.
 They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases we 
have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. But, as 
a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the hope that 
I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all means challenge 
me to prove it.
But please do not waste my time.
On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Todor,
Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
flawed to begin with.
BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
FYI
I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at
the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
Chuck


On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:


Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:

Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere cause the planet 
to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of physics and can be tested 
experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse Effect".

Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas into 
our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the earth's 
crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that lists the top 
oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more than a hundred 
million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred million barrels per 
day. There are also millions of tons of coal and natural gas being mined every 
day.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
/2241rank.html

Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much effect 
the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those calculations, often 
called climate models, are proven to be accurate because they can predict 
things like droughts and floods to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
chance. And these climate models consistently show that we have indeed put 
enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to cause the planet to heat up.

Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being caused by human 
activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called "fuzzy thinking".  It's 
akin to a person defending themselves in court by saying the police can't prove that the 
guy he shot didn't just happen to drop dead from some other reason right before the 
bullet hit him.  It is not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. 
The 3 facts  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is 
the flaw?




On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
Your absolutely 100% correct again!
Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
warming"  out of the water!
How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some
more light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep
this on topic is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL Talk soon Chuck

On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I
could blow huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists
did infect fudge factor data and I can show you hard space weather
data that indicates s

Re: Global Warming

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Please tell me what has this discussion have to do with Apple products?  Just 
interested.

Kawal.
> On 10 Nov 2016, at 18:58, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come 
> up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
> prove it.
> 
> Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
> successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account.  
> They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
> from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
> climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
> models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
> accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases 
> we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. 
> But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the 
> hope that I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all 
> means challenge me to prove it. But please do not waste my time.
> On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>> Hi Todor,
>> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
>> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
>> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
>> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
>> flawed to begin with.
>> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
>> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
>> FYI
>> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
>> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at the 
>> proper temperature! ;)
>> Scott is absolutely correct again!
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
>>> 
>>> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
>>> cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
>>> physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
>>> Effect".
>>> 
>>> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
>>> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
>>> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that 
>>> lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more 
>>> than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred 
>>> million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and 
>>> natural gas being mined every day.
>>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2241rank.html
>>> 
>>> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
>>> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those 
>>> calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate 
>>> because they can predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that 
>>> cannot be accounted for by chance. And these climate models consistently 
>>> show that we have indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to 
>>> cause the planet to heat up.
>>> 
>>> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
>>> caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called 
>>> "fuzzy thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by 
>>> saying the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to 
>>> drop dead from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is 
>>> not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 facts 
>>>  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is 
>>> the flaw?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
 Hi Scott,
 Your absolutely 100% correct again!
 Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
 warming"  out of the water!
 How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
 Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
 My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some more 
 light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep this on 
 topic is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL
 Talk soon
 Chuck
 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 
> Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could 
> blow huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect 
> fudge factor data and I can show you hard space weather data that 
> indicates similar warming trends on other planets.;)
> 
> That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea 
> but the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next 
> time Leonardo De

Re: MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[gs]

Hmm. Well I have contributed because the thread is split. I'm sick of it. This 
should have been addressed before and you need to remove people instead of 
making a generic announcement such as the one below.
On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:12 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Everyone,

This thread is now considered closed.  

Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to this 
thread.

Thank you,

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Global Warming

Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come up 
with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
prove it.

Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account. 
 They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases we 
have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. But, as 
a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the hope that 
I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all means challenge 
me to prove it. 
But please do not waste my time.
On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
> Hi Todor,
> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
> flawed to begin with.
> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
> FYI
> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at 
> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
> 
>> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
>> 
>> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
>> cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
>> physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
>> Effect".
>> 
>> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
>> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
>> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that lists 
>> the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more than a 
>> hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred million 
>> barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and natural gas 
>> being mined every day.
>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
>> /2241rank.html
>> 
>> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
>> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those calculations, 
>> often called climate models, are proven to be accurate because they can 
>> predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that cannot be accounted 
>> for by chance. And these climate models consistently show that we have 
>> indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to cause the planet to 
>> heat up.
>> 
>> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
>> caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called "fuzzy 
>> thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by saying 
>> the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to drop dead 
>> from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is not my job to 
>> disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 facts  I gave above 
>> prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is the flaw?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> Your absolutely 100% correct again!
>>> Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
>>> warming"  out of the water!
>>> How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
>>> Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
>>> My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some 
>>> more light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep 
>>> this on topic is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL Talk soon Chuck
>>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> 
 Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I 
 could 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[gs]

I'm glad I have a convenient mechanism to delete an entire thread. It's obvious 
that we have no moderator. It would be hilarious if the supposed moderator 
finally responds to me, after all the other crap that has been disseminated 
here.

It's quite pathetic to allow this to continue. Why not just do what has been 
threatened and remove people from the list? It's quite intolerable that this 
list is allowed to degrade to a discussion of American politics from the 
perspective of a bunch of losers who apparently are about to make it into a 
religious debate. Religion and/or politics ha's/have no place here. Either give 
up your position as moderator or do your job. I'm sick of it.

Feel free to remove me from the list as an example of what not to send. It will 
save me the keystrokes to remove myself.

If you're too incompetent to monitor this list and take decisive action on a 
daily basis, get someone else to do it.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 2:44 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:

Which God's word did you put 30 years into researching?

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 11/11/2016, at 08:33, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi ET!
> as for global warming don't forget the definition of true science ;
> the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of 
> the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through 
> observation and  experiment :  the world of science and technology.
> So GW is just a theory!
> 
> as for your BIBLE comment;
> I've put 30 years in to researching GOD'S word.
> How may years have you put in?
> I don't think you want to go there!
> So lets keep it on the off topic on the topic going on!
> Remember theres no Kool Aid" without H2O! LOL
> PS any time you want to discuss in person you have my phone # I'd be glad to 
> talk in person! :)
> Chuck
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, E.T. wrote:
>> 
>> Yes but there is also the gatherings of people everywhere which allows for 
>> sharing of information. And always, the "campfire story telling" plays here 
>> too. What one hears from someone who heard from someone The final story 
>> may bear little resemblance to the original. The bible is such an example of 
>> this principle.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Without H2O there is no life!
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:42 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>> Actually you might be surprised.
>>> there are still some  significant parts of the u. s. where  high speed
>>> cannot exist due to physical reasons.  further the cost for internet in
>>> the states is far higher than in most developing countries.
>>> What you state about the issues with Internet  factual levels is of
>>> course a fine point, nothing  prevents  a person from posting whatever
>>> they like on the web..i. e. President Obama is a Muslim.
>>> Still traditional sources of information  remain,  radio, television,
>>> newspapers, etc.
>>> One can if one wishes become informed  about issues and make decisions
>>> by voting.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, E.T. wrote:
 
 Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access
 to technology.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Without H2O there is no life!
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:
> Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
> Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
> That's All I'm going to Say
> At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
>>   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
>> the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
>> to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Without H2O there is no life!
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:
>>> Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
>>> People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
>>> presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
>>> &
>>> they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
>>> At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
 Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
>>> I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself
> about the
 issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is
> that it's
 really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the
> habit of
 catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like
 that."
 When that happens, google it and make sure.
>>> I know people are going to say there is so much
> misinformation out
 there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
 careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each
> source
 can be t

OT The braille note and the index Everest D v4

[becky knaub]

Hi all,
Please email me off list if you have an answer to the following questions. I 
have a client who is a braille note apex user and we are trying to get her 
Everest braille embosser to work with her braille note. Unfortunately it will 
work some of the time and then start brailling a bunch of gibberish. If you 
know if the braille note actually works well with The Everest and the settings 
that I should need to check please let me know. If you could tell me why does 
braille correctly and then go to writing in gibberish that would be even more 
helpful. Thanks for your help. Please email me at becnc...@gmail.com.  if you 
can help answer these questions. I wasn't sure where else to turn.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Installing SSD

[E.T.]

   I am talking about the existing internal drive. I am more curious 
what others do with the old drive as I am sure mine will fall into a 
hiding spot to be forgotten. So think it best to secure erase it first 
and know how long it might take.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 1:28 PM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
existing drive onto the SSD.
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:

When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
days? (smiles)

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: Installing SSD

[jeff `greene]

Hi, Usually you format the new SSD using disc utility. Then cloan your
existing drive onto the SSD.
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 11/10/16, E.T.  wrote:
> When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to
> erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take
> days? (smiles)
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Installing SSD

[E.T.]

   When I get an SSD to replace the standard hard drive. is it wise to 
erase the drive first and would a secure erase of a 750g drive take 
days? (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[David Chittenden]

Which God's word did you put 30 years into researching?

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 11/11/2016, at 08:33, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi ET!
> as for global warming don't forget the definition of true science ;
> the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of 
> the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through 
> observation and  experiment :  the world of science and technology.
> So GW is just a theory!
> 
> as for your BIBLE comment;
> I've put 30 years in to researching GOD'S word.
> How may years have you put in?
> I don't think you want to go there!
> So lets keep it on the off topic on the topic going on!
> Remember theres no Kool Aid" without H2O! LOL
> PS any time you want to discuss in person you have my phone # I'd be glad to 
> talk in person! :)
> Chuck
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, E.T. wrote:
>> 
>>  Yes but there is also the gatherings of people everywhere which allows for 
>> sharing of information. And always, the "campfire story telling" plays here 
>> too. What one hears from someone who heard from someone The final story 
>> may bear little resemblance to the original. The bible is such an example of 
>> this principle.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Without H2O there is no life!
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:42 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>> Actually you might be surprised.
>>> there are still some  significant parts of the u. s. where  high speed
>>> cannot exist due to physical reasons.  further the cost for internet in
>>> the states is far higher than in most developing countries.
>>> What you state about the issues with Internet  factual levels is of
>>> course a fine point, nothing  prevents  a person from posting whatever
>>> they like on the web..i. e. President Obama is a Muslim.
>>> Still traditional sources of information  remain,  radio, television,
>>> newspapers, etc.
>>> One can if one wishes become informed  about issues and make decisions
>>> by voting.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, E.T. wrote:
 
 Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access
 to technology.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Without H2O there is no life!
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:
> Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
> Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
> That's All I'm going to Say
> At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
>>There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
>> the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
>> to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   Without H2O there is no life!
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:
>>> Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
>>> People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
>>> presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
>>> &
>>> they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
>>> At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
 Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
>>> I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself
> about the
 issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is
> that it's
 really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the
> habit of
 catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like
 that."
 When that happens, google it and make sure.
>>> I know people are going to say there is so much
> misinformation out
 there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
 careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each
> source
 can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will
> give you > > >  a
 handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
 particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on
> global
 warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively
> we > > >  need
 to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at
> all.
> On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Actually,
> It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
> registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be
> defined
> varies.
> Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss
> more > > > >  than
> two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
> For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even
> though > > > >  I
> did
> vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
>>>

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi ET!
as for global warming don't forget the definition of true science ;
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of 
the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through 
observation and  experiment :  the world of science and technology.
So GW is just a theory!

as for your BIBLE comment;
I've put 30 years in to researching GOD'S word.
How may years have you put in?
I don't think you want to go there!
So lets keep it on the off topic on the topic going on!
Remember theres no Kool Aid" without H2O! LOL
PS any time you want to discuss in person you have my phone # I'd be glad to 
talk in person! :)
Chuck

On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, E.T. wrote:

>   Yes but there is also the gatherings of people everywhere which allows for 
> sharing of information. And always, the "campfire story telling" plays here 
> too. What one hears from someone who heard from someone The final story 
> may bear little resemblance to the original. The bible is such an example of 
> this principle.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Without H2O there is no life!
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 11/10/2016 10:42 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> Actually you might be surprised.
>> there are still some  significant parts of the u. s. where  high speed
>> cannot exist due to physical reasons.  further the cost for internet in
>> the states is far higher than in most developing countries.
>> What you state about the issues with Internet  factual levels is of
>> course a fine point, nothing  prevents  a person from posting whatever
>> they like on the web..i. e. President Obama is a Muslim.
>> Still traditional sources of information  remain,  radio, television,
>> newspapers, etc.
>> One can if one wishes become informed  about issues and make decisions
>> by voting.
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, E.T. wrote:
>> 
>>>  Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access
>>> to technology.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Without H2O there is no life!
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:
 Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
 Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
 That's All I'm going to Say
 At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
 > There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
 >  the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
 >  to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.
 > >  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 >Without H2O there is no life!
 >  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 > >  On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:
 > >  Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
 > >  People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
 > >  presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
>> &
 > >  they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
 > >  At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
 > > >  Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
 > > > > > >  I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself
 about the
 > > >  issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is
 that it's
 > > >  really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the
 habit of
 > > >  catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like
 > > >  that."
 > > >  When that happens, google it and make sure.
 > > > > > >  I know people are going to say there is so much
 misinformation out
 > > >  there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
 > > >  careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each
 source
 > > >  can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will
 give you > > >  a
 > > >  handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
 > > >  particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on
 global
 > > >  warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively
 we > > >  need
 > > >  to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at
 all.
 > > > > > > > > > > > >  On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
 > > > >  Actually,
 > > > >  It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
 > > > >  registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be
 > > > >  defined
 > > > >  varies.
 > > > >  Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss
 more > > > >  than
 > > > >  two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
 > > > >  For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even
 though > > > >  I
 > > > >  did
 > > > >  vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
 > > > >  what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout
 percentages > > > >  this
 > > > >  year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real
 majority.  so > > 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

Remember that old comedy routine, "You might be a redneck if ..."  How 
about, "You may be someone who shouldn't vote if ..."


* If you ever thought global warming was a hoax.
* If you ever thought Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
* If you ever thought Barack Obama was a Moslem.

I am trying to think of some for liberals:

* If you still think vaccines cause autism.

On 11/10/2016 10:21 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:

OK, I would want to agree, but how will you structure the test? I
warrant you can't do that without discriminating in some way or other.

Recognize that our Constitution has supported tests from its inception. The 
original
tests went like this; you had to be a citizen, white, male, and own property.

The property thing went first, the white thing technically went away
after the Civil War, and the male thing went away beginning with the
1920 election.

I say the white thing went away "technically," because the extreme
example, of course, is well known history. In the bad old days in the
south they used to have these tests for allowing people to register to
vote. Grade school drop outs who were white would inviariably pass, and
Ph.D's who were black would routinely fail. Yet the Supremes upheld the
practice for decades--until a 1960's Congress and President Johnson
signed legislation that banned this kind of thing.

Here's something to consider. Ever since Voting Rights legislation was
signed into law, white people in the U.S. have never voted to elect a
Democrat. Had only whites voted in each election since this legislation
in 1964 and 1965, there would only have been Republican Presidents. We
need to acknowledge and consider this fact, too, because it's the
overwhelming white vote this time around that's given us Trump,
following on a campaign riddled with racial and gender slurs and
impercations.  Do you wonder that minority communities are quaking in
fear just now?

Janina



Todor Fassl writes:

But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote? Just
repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure you
have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for random
medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the issues, you
should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

I Disagree
Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
No Matter What iff Eligible
At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:

I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
havent studied the issues, please stay home.



On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

For our friends in the US,
Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
your voice heard if you haven’t already.
Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits
to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
volunteer services as well.
Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy Cream
will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
Remember that many service men and women have fought and died
for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make sure we
take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.


--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://g

Re: VMware v8

[E.T.]

Matthew,
   I use Cmd G as well. But I seem to recall that command was on the 
menu at one time? Its not now so unless one knows about it, without 
reading the documentation, its not obvious.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 8:28 AM, matthew wrote:

Hi,


I just hit cmd G and it usually works.  Full screen gives the vm full
access to the screen.  HTH.


Mathew




On 11/10/2016 01:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Mathew, would you mind detailing the full screen mode more, I find
that i can’t get access to the VM with the keyboard if I enable full
screen.  Clearly I must be doing something wrong.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 5:24 PM, matthew 
wrote:

Hi,


When the os comes up, try press cmd G this will give vmware full
access to the keyboard.  Also,  you might want to make sure you are
in full screen mode.


Matthew




On 11/08/2016 07:34 PM, Ramy Moustafa wrote:

Hello all my Friends:
Every time i tried Using the VMware on my MacBook pro 2015, i must
wait about 3 minutes to start using it. but now, i can here the
windows sound and jaws speaking but i can’t use my keyboard to
control the windows at all, this drive me crazy and don’t know what
to do.
do i have to do something to tell my mac that i need the windows or
what?

my 2nd Question is that if i connect a flash drive to usb and use it
on VMware, and i need to read it’s content on mac, must i eject it
first then connect it again on it’s USB slot? or there is a solution
to do this through mac?
Thanks in advance


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

MODERATOR NOTE: RE: Global Warming

[M. Taylor]

Everyone,

This thread is now considered closed.  

Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to this 
thread.

Thank you,

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Todor Fassl
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Global Warming

Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you come up 
with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by volcanos, you 
prove it.

Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account. 
  They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up articles 
from scientific journals that show that certain climate models have predicted 
climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for by chance. These 
models also show that the amount of warming we have experienced cannot be 
accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed due to the greenhouse gases we 
have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up that evidence if you insist. But, as 
a gentleman, I would hope you don't make me look stuff up just on the hope that 
I won't bother. If you really do doubt something I say, by all means challenge 
me to prove it. 
But please do not waste my time.
On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
> Hi Todor,
> Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
> Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
> Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
> With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
> flawed to begin with.
> BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
> Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
> FYI
> I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
> At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at 
> the proper temperature! ;) Scott is absolutely correct again!
> Chuck
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
>
>> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
>>
>> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
>> cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
>> physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
>> Effect".
>>
>> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
>> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
>> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that lists 
>> the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more than a 
>> hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred million 
>> barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and natural gas 
>> being mined every day.
>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder
>> /2241rank.html
>>
>> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
>> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those calculations, 
>> often called climate models, are proven to be accurate because they can 
>> predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that cannot be accounted 
>> for by chance. And these climate models consistently show that we have 
>> indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to cause the planet to 
>> heat up.
>>
>> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
>> caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called "fuzzy 
>> thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by saying 
>> the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to drop dead 
>> from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is not my job to 
>> disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 facts  I gave above 
>> prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is the flaw?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> Your absolutely 100% correct again!
>>> Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
>>> warming"  out of the water!
>>> How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
>>> Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
>>> My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some 
>>> more light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep 
>>> this on topic is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL Talk soon Chuck
>>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>
 Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I 
 could blow huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists 
 did infect fudge factor data and I can show you hard space weather 
 data that indicates similar warming trends on other planets.;)

 That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in t

MODERATOR NOTE:RE: Get out there and vote everyone!

[M. Taylor]

Everyone,

This thread is now considered closed.  

Do not send anymore on-list posts regarding this subject or contribute to this 
thread.

Thank you,

Mark


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

To put it another way. Everyone who has no direct access to technology 
knows someone who does.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:44 AM, Robin wrote:
> YourNaive to Think EveryOne has Access to Technology Just Sayin'
> At 10:35 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
>>Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have 
>> access to technology.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   Without H2O there is no life!
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>> On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:
>>> Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about 
>>> Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus 
>>> That's All I'm going to Say At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, 
 and the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy 
 these days to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda 
 too.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Without H2O there is no life!
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com

 On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:
> Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation People can 
> only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are presented 
> with & either SearchOut MoreInformation & they also have to 
> LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, 
> you wrote:
>> Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
>>
>> I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the 
>> issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that 
>> it's really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the 
>> habit of catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like 
>> that."
>> When that happens, google it and make sure.
>>
>> I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation 
>> out there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a 
>> little careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether 
>> each source can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search 
>> will give you a handful of sites that can put you at ease as to 
>> the facts on any particular issue. For example, if you research 
>> the facts on global warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to 
>> how aggressively we need to address that problem rather than 
>> whether it is a problem at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>> Actually,
>>>  It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is 
>>> registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be 
>>> defined varies.
>>> Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss 
>>> more than two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
>>> For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even 
>>> though I did vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
>>> what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages 
>>> this year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real 
>>> majority.  so I want
>>> to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as
>>> well as
>>> those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the 
>>> ballot instead.
>>>  Going back to the question though it is on a state by state 
>>> basis even if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
>>> Karen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>
 I’m not sure about the registration ississue, I kn know of 
 people missing presidential elections and not having two 
 reregister.  I think this may be on a state by state basis but 
 I do not know for certain.

> On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
> 
> wrote:
>
> One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered 
> to vote in a specific location, they remain registered until 
> they miss a US Presidential election. After missing a 
> Presidential election, the person needs to reregister. 
> Therefore, a dead person will only remain on the voter roles 
> until after the next Presidential election.
>
> As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There 
> are a few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago 
> and New York City both come to mind as large practitioners of 
> 

Re: Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

Well, first of all, Chuck, it's not my job to disprove every theory you 
come up with. If you want to claim global warming might be caused by 
volcanos, you prove it.


Secondly, I already indirectly answered the point you are making. All 
successful climate models do indeed take volcanic activity into account. 
 They couldn't be successful otherwise. If you insist, I can dig up 
articles from scientific journals that show that certain climate models 
have predicted climate changes to a degree that cannot be accounted for 
by chance. These models also show that the amount of warming we have 
experienced cannot be accounted for by volcanos and that it is indeed 
due to the greenhouse gases we have emitted. Now, I am willing to dig up 
that evidence if you insist. But, as a gentleman, I would hope you don't 
make me look stuff up just on the hope that I won't bother. If you 
really do doubt something I say, by all means challenge me to prove it. 
But please do not waste my time.

On 11/10/2016 12:28 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Todor,
Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
flawed to begin with.
BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
FYI
I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at the proper 
temperature! ;)
Scott is absolutely correct again!
Chuck


On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:


Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:

Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere cause the planet 
to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of physics and can be tested 
experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse Effect".

Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas into 
our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the earth's 
crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that lists the top 
oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more than a hundred 
million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred million barrels per 
day. There are also millions of tons of coal and natural gas being mined every 
day.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2241rank.html

Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much effect 
the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those calculations, often 
called climate models, are proven to be accurate because they can predict 
things like droughts and floods to a degree that cannot be accounted for by 
chance. And these climate models consistently show that we have indeed put 
enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to cause the planet to heat up.

Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being caused by human 
activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called "fuzzy thinking".  It's 
akin to a person defending themselves in court by saying the police can't prove that the 
guy he shot didn't just happen to drop dead from some other reason right before the 
bullet hit him.  It is not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. 
The 3 facts  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is 
the flaw?




On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
Your absolutely 100% correct again!
Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
warming"  out of the water!
How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some more light 
on this but at this point the only thing that would keep this on topic is that She 
uses a Mac book pro! LOL
Talk soon
Chuck

On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before they 
vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought global 
warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[E.T.]

   To put it another way. Everyone who has no direct access to 
technology knows someone who does.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:44 AM, Robin wrote:

YourNaive to Think EveryOne has Access to Technology
Just Sayin'
At 10:35 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have
access to technology.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
That's All I'm going to Say
At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we
need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more
than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I
did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages
this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I
want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as
well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the
ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis
even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I’m not sure about the registration ississue, I kn know of
people
missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden

wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to
vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss
a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only
remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There
are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New
York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City
which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all
well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I
did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex
their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since itâ€â„„¢s a ga great
question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote
you’re

e

>> registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a
death

certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed
but in
practicality that doesn’t alwa

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[E.T.]

   Again, no and I said no such thing. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:44 AM, Robin wrote:

YourNaive to Think EveryOne has Access to Technology
Just Sayin'
At 10:35 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have
access to technology.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
That's All I'm going to Say
At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we
need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more
than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I
did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages
this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I
want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as
well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the
ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis
even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I’m not sure about the registration ississue, I kn know of
people
missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden

wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to
vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss
a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only
remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There
are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New
York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City
which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all
well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I
did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex
their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since itâ€â„„¢s a ga great
question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote
you’re

e

>> registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a
death

certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed
but in
practicality that doesn’t always happappen.  It It really
depends on the
individu

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[E.T.]

   Yes but there is also the gatherings of people everywhere which 
allows for sharing of information. And always, the "campfire story 
telling" plays here too. What one hears from someone who heard from 
someone The final story may bear little resemblance to the original. 
The bible is such an example of this principle.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:42 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually you might be surprised.
there are still some  significant parts of the u. s. where  high speed
cannot exist due to physical reasons.  further the cost for internet in
the states is far higher than in most developing countries.
What you state about the issues with Internet  factual levels is of
course a fine point, nothing  prevents  a person from posting whatever
they like on the web..i. e. President Obama is a Muslim.
Still traditional sources of information  remain,  radio, television,
newspapers, etc.
One can if one wishes become informed  about issues and make decisions
by voting.


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, E.T. wrote:


  Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access
to technology.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

 Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
 Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
 That's All I'm going to Say
 At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
> There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
>  the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
>  to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.
> >  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>Without H2O there is no life!
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >  On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:
> >  Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
> >  People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
> >  presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation

&

> >  they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
> >  At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
> > >  Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
> > > > > >  I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself
about the
> > >  issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is
that it's
> > >  really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the
habit of
> > >  catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like
> > >  that."
> > >  When that happens, google it and make sure.
> > > > > >  I know people are going to say there is so much
misinformation out
> > >  there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
> > >  careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each
source
> > >  can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will
give you > > >  a
> > >  handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
> > >  particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on
global
> > >  warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively
we > > >  need
> > >  to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at
all.
> > > > > > > > > > > >  On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > > >  Actually,
> > > >  It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
> > > >  registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be
> > > >  defined
> > > >  varies.
> > > >  Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss
more > > > >  than
> > > >  two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
> > > >  For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even
though > > > >  I
> > > >  did
> > > >  vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
> > > >  what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout
percentages > > > >  this
> > > >  year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real
majority.  so > > > >  I
> > > >  want
> > > >  to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,
as well > > > >  as
> > > >  those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on
the > > > >  ballot
> > > >  instead.
> > > >  Going back to the question though it is on a state by state
basis
> > > >  even
> > > >  if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
> > > >  Karen
> > > > > > > > > > > >  On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
> > > > > > > > >  I̢۪m not sure about the registration issue, I kn
know of > > > > >  people
> > > > >  missing
> > > > >  presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I
think > > > > >  this
> > > > >  may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for
certain.
> > > > > > > > > > >  On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden >
> > > > >  
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >  One correction, if memory serves, once a
person is registered > > > > > >  to
> > > > > >  vote
> > > > > >  in a specific location, they remain registered until
they miss > > > > > >  a US
> > > > > >  Presidential election. After mis

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Robin]

YourNaive to Think EveryOne has Access to Technology
Just Sayin'
At 10:35 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
   Not at all, and I do not believe that most 
people do not have access to technology.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
That's All I'm going to Say
At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I
did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I
want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis
even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I’m not sure about the registration ississue, I kn know of people
missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to
vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only
remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since itâ€â„„¢s a ga great
question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote you’re

e

>> registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a
death

certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed but in
practicality that doesn’t always happappen.  It It really
depends on the
individual state.  In some states you 
donâ€ââ„¢t et even have to show

identification to vote, in others you do.  In some states they have
early voting meaning you can vote 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Karen Lewellen]

Actually you might be surprised.
there are still some  significant parts of the u. s. where  high speed 
cannot exist due to physical reasons.  further the cost for internet in 
the states is far higher than in most developing countries.
What you state about the issues with Internet  factual levels is of course 
a fine point, nothing  prevents  a person from posting whatever they like 
on 
the web..i. e. President Obama is a Muslim.
Still traditional sources of information  remain,  radio, television, 
newspapers, etc.
One can if one wishes become informed  about issues and make decisions by 
voting.



On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, E.T. wrote:

  Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access to 
technology.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

 Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
 Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
 That's All I'm going to Say
 At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
> There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
>  the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
>  to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.
> 
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...

>Without H2O there is no life!
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>  On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

> >  Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
> >  People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
> >  presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation

&

> >  they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
> >  At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
> > >  Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.
> > > 
> > >  I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the

> > >  issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
> > >  really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
> > >  catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like 
> > >  that."

> > >  When that happens, google it and make sure.
> > > 
> > >  I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out

> > >  there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
> > >  careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
> > >  can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you 
> > >  a

> > >  handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
> > >  particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
> > >  warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we 
> > >  need

> > >  to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> > > >  Actually,
> > > >  It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
> > > >  registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be 
> > > >  defined

> > > >  varies.
> > > >  Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more 
> > > >  than

> > > >  two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
> > > >  For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though 
> > > >  I

> > > >  did
> > > >  vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
> > > >  what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages 
> > > >  this
> > > >  year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so 
> > > >  I

> > > >  want
> > > >  to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well 
> > > >  as
> > > >  those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the 
> > > >  ballot

> > > >  instead.
> > > >  Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis
> > > >  even
> > > >  if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
> > > >  Karen
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >  I??m not sure about the registration issue, I kn know of 
> > > > >  people

> > > > >  missing
> > > > >  presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think 
> > > > >  this

> > > > >  may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >  On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
> > > > > >  

> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered 
> > > > > >  to

> > > > > >  vote
> > > > > >  in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss 
> > > > > >  a US
> > > > > >  Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, 
> > > > > >  the

> > > > > >  person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only
> > > > > >  remain
> > > > > >  on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There 
> > > > > >  are a
> > > > > >  few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

Okay. Prove me wrong. Where are your facts? Otherwise, it's bullstuff.

PS: Feel free to challenge me to provide proof of anything I've said.
On 11/10/2016 12:17 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

And see you’ve just entirely discredited your position.  Typical lefty move 
when you have an indefensible position and you’re presented with facts which 
are confirmed you result to name calling.

I do not listen to Rush Limbaugh, he’s a blow hard just like Sean Hanity and 
the whole bunch.  In fact I get most of my news from outside the united states. 
 But it does prove your true colors and it proves my point that you live inside 
the bubble of the global climate change religion which is as irrational as any 
other faith based position that lacks support in hard measurable fact.  But go 
ahead and name call, I’m happy to give you suitable rope to hang yourself.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

None of what you say below is a proven fact. Yu've been listening to too much 
Rush Limbaugh. I don't actually care where you got this crap from, it's crap. 
If you want to say otherwise, provide some links. Otherwise, I call BS on 
everything you say.

*I* am not in any Al Gore bubble. That's bullstuff.





On 11/10/2016 11:25 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Well, let’s remember, the UN climate group did fudge their numbers which is a 
proven fact so that does sort of lead towards the hoax factor.  Let’s also 
remember when it’s been demonstrated that recent temperatures are cooling if 
anything the global warming crowd changed their phrase from global warming to 
climate change.  Let’s also note the sun has had an increase in output over the 
last century  that fluctuates but also correlates with temperature and weather 
changes recorded both on the planet and on other planets such as temperature 
changes recorded on Mars although we have a very narrow data set there so it’s 
hard to say that’s a trend with a lack of data.

The fact is the global warming crowd or climate change or what ever you call it 
now is in a bubble, an Al Gorr generated bubble generated specifically to put 
money in Mr. Gorr’s pocket with the carbon credits scheme.  There’s also a 
culture of firing scientists who contest the findings which happens in many 
established areas of research but especially here.  It’s a scam to put money in 
Gorr’s and Decrapio’s pockets among others not a real effort to reduce 
pollution.  If it was real then people would be researching real energy 
alternatives like Nuclear and wouldn’t cut funding for things like the national 
ignition project.  So yes, Global warming is a scam.  These were the same folks 
who used to cry nuclear winter and previously claimed an ice age was coming and 
change their positions through out history.  The sky is not falling and I for 
one am not going to support the enrichment of the Gorr family based on 
fabricated science that even the united nations was forced to admit to.

There are so many wholes in the theory starting with the lack of long term data 
and deliberate fudging of data to prove an imaginary point through to the lack 
of compensation for the heat reflectivity changes caused by the increase in use 
of concrete near temperature measuring stations which cause a small but 
measurable delta in the data which they refuse to correct for.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

My point was not that it was never reasonable to be skeptical about global 
warming. My point was that it was never sensible to assert that scientists were 
trying to pull off a hoax.  If you think it was ever reasonable to assert that 
global warming was a hoax, then you should not be allowed to vote at least 
until you get your head on straight.

PS: I am willing to debate global warming with you any time any place. The 
facts are on my side.






On 11/10/2016 10:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before they 
vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought global 
warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if you ever 
hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were deliberately 
making it up, then you should never again be allowed

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[E.T.]

   Not at all, and I do not believe that most people do not have access 
to technology.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:29 AM, Robin wrote:

Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or Knowledgeable about
Technology or Has Access to Technology given Their FinancialStatus
That's All I'm going to Say
At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and
the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days
to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I
did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I
want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis
even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I̢۪m not sure about the registration issue, I kn know of people
missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to
vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only
remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since it̢۪s a ga great
question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote you’re

>> registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a
death

certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed but in
practicality that doesn̢۪t always happen.  It It really
depends on the
individual state.  In some states you don̢۪t et even have to show
identification to vote, in others you do.  In some states they have
early voting meaning you can vote early either at a polling
place or
via mail.  In other states you have election day only.  Florida is
an example where you can vot

Re: Global Warming

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Todor,
Heres a "proverb" that applies here!
Figures don't lie,  but liars figure!
Do you have statistics on the average carbon out put from   a Volcano?
With out these stats plugged into the Global Warming model the   "theory" is 
flawed to begin with.
BTW a Theory is a unproven fact! :)
Unless you have that  data how can you blame carbon on man caused pollution?
FYI
I remember the "ice age is coming rap"
At least with the ice age coming they could keep their "cool aid" at the proper 
temperature! ;)
Scott is absolutely correct again!
Chuck


On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:

> Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:
> 
> Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere cause 
> the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of physics and 
> can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse Effect".
> 
> Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse gas 
> into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up in the 
> earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page that lists 
> the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up to more than a 
> hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a hundred million 
> barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal and natural gas 
> being mined every day.
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2241rank.html
> 
> Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
> effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those calculations, 
> often called climate models, are proven to be accurate because they can 
> predict things like droughts and floods to a degree that cannot be accounted 
> for by chance. And these climate models consistently show that we have indeed 
> put enough greenhouse gas into our atmosphere to cause the planet to heat up.
> 
> Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being caused 
> by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called "fuzzy 
> thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court by saying the 
> police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen to drop dead from 
> some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It is not my job to 
> disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 facts  I gave above 
> prove that global warming is being caused by humans. Where is the flaw?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> Your absolutely 100% correct again!
>> Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
>> warming"  out of the water!
>> How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
>> Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
>> My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some more 
>> light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep this on topic 
>> is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL
>> Talk soon
>> Chuck
>> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>>> Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
>>> huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge 
>>> factor data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates 
>>> similar warming trends on other planets.;)
>>> 
>>> That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea 
>>> but the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next 
>>> time Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying 
>>> around in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my 
>>> life I’ll smack him with a trout.
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
 
 The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from 
 voting via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* 
 before they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever 
 thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I 
 don't mean if you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed 
 scientists were deliberately making it up, then you should never again be 
 allowed to vote. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. You should have to prove 
 you have learned your lesson though.
 
 
 
 
 On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
> recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
> hurt the country as a whole.
> So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
> The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
> county or country can afford.
> I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
> choosing to skip the dem

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Robin]

Have you ForGotten Not EveryOne is TechSavy or 
Knowledgeable about Technology or Has Access to 
Technology given Their FinancialStatus

That's All I'm going to Say
At 09:55 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
   There is an endless number of sources. 
Social media, Youtube, and the like, are some 
good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these 
days to put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I̢۪m not sure about the registration issue, I kn know of people missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since it̢۪s a ga great question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote you’re

>> registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a death

certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed but in
practicality that doesn̢۪t always happen.  It It really depends on the
individual state.  In some states you don̢۪t et even have to show
identification to vote, in others you do.  In some states they have
early voting meaning you can vote early either at a polling place or
via mail.  In other states you have election day only.  Florida is
an example where you can vote early, Michigan is an example where
you can only vote on election day.  There̢۪s bs been a provision in
Texas state law that you can vote from space.:)  (Astronauts being
Houston Texas residents have a

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

Oh, for pete's sake! I'm not advocating for taking away anyone's right 
to vote. I am saying we shouldn't be encouraging people to vote just to 
vote. If you don't know what you are doing you should choose to stay  home.


When I say if you ever thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't 
be allowed to vote, I mean you shouldn't allow yourself to vote. Your 
friends, people who love you and care about you, should do an 
intervention and convince you to stay home for your own good. They 
should sit you down and say, "Look, we know you enjoy excersizing your 
right to vote but you're only hurting yourself. We love you and we are 
worried you might do something you will regretlater  -- like vote for 
Donald Trump."

On 11/10/2016 11:26 AM, Robin wrote:

Why should EveryOne Vote
Cause
They BeingEveryOne has TheRight ToDoSo
EvenIf they are UnInformed concerning TheIssues
No One's Voice should be Muffled or Silenced

Minorities were considered ToBe UnInformed AsItPertainsTo TheIssues In
The Past, but Their RightToVote shouldn't be TakenAway because of that

I don't Agree with TheOutCome of TheElection either, but I am Not One to
Silence OpposingViews
I would rather TryTo Educate Others to MyPointOfView & Hear TheirView &
Allow them TheFreedom to Vote as They Desire & Choose

Based on YourReply & YourResponse, you Appear ToBe IN Favor of
VoterSupression of TheUnEducated

Since ThisCountry is More & More UnEducated, TheirVoice should be Heard

At 07:31 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
issues, you should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

I Disagree
Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
No Matter What iff Eligible
At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:

I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
havent studied the issues, please stay home.



On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

For our friends in the US,
Totally apolitical here and please please letâ€ââ„¢s keep it
that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
your voice heard if you haven̢۪t already.

.

Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits
to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
volunteer services as well.
Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
today to voters.  Keep that “I voted•€  sticker and Krispy
Cream
will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
Remember that many service men and women have fought and died
for your right to vote so let̢۪s not let them dowdown and make
sure we
take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.


--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera..

Re: Global Warming

[E.T.]

   Climate change. I prefer that tern. But it is indeed real. And it is 
indeed true that humans have played a major role in it.


   We just need to look around to see the effects. Melting ice at the 
poles. Rising sea levels. Increasingly intense storms. Melting glaciers. 
A species that not only can live in all environments but propagates like 
mice.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 10:07 AM, Todor Fassl wrote:

Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:

Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere
cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of
physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse
Effect".

Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse
gas into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up
in the earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page
that lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up
to more than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a
hundred million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal
and natural gas being mined every day.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2241rank.html


Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much
effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those
calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate
because they can predict things like droughts and floods to a degree
that cannot be accounted for by chance. And these climate models
consistently show that we have indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our
atmosphere to cause the planet to heat up.

Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being
caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called
"fuzzy thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court
by saying the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen
to drop dead from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It
is not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3
facts  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans.
Where is the flaw?




On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
Your absolutely 100% correct again!
Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as
"global warming"  out of the water!
How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some
more light on this but at this point the only thing that would keep
this on topic is that She uses a Mac book pro! LOL
Talk soon
Chuck

On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I
could blow huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists
did infect fudge factor data and I can show you hard space weather
data that indicates similar warming trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and
sea but the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.
The next time Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy
while he’s flying around in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy
per hour than I do in my life I’ll smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities
from voting via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know
*something* before they vote is not practical.  It would be nice
though. If you ever thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't
be allowed to vote. I don't mean if you ever hoped it wasn't true. I
mean if you ever believed scientists were deliberately making it up,
then you should never again be allowed to vote. Well, maybe that is
a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned your lesson
though.




On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting
process
hurt the country as a whole.
So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a
fine.
The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a
city,
county or country can afford.
I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
general public mandate anymore.
Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
home enough to pay a fine for that right?
Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:


But why? Why should people who know nothing about the

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

And see you’ve just entirely discredited your position.  Typical lefty move 
when you have an indefensible position and you’re presented with facts which 
are confirmed you result to name calling.

I do not listen to Rush Limbaugh, he’s a blow hard just like Sean Hanity and 
the whole bunch.  In fact I get most of my news from outside the united states. 
 But it does prove your true colors and it proves my point that you live inside 
the bubble of the global climate change religion which is as irrational as any 
other faith based position that lacks support in hard measurable fact.  But go 
ahead and name call, I’m happy to give you suitable rope to hang yourself.


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> None of what you say below is a proven fact. Yu've been listening to too much 
> Rush Limbaugh. I don't actually care where you got this crap from, it's crap. 
> If you want to say otherwise, provide some links. Otherwise, I call BS on 
> everything you say.
> 
> *I* am not in any Al Gore bubble. That's bullstuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 11:25 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> Well, let’s remember, the UN climate group did fudge their numbers which is 
>> a proven fact so that does sort of lead towards the hoax factor.  Let’s also 
>> remember when it’s been demonstrated that recent temperatures are cooling if 
>> anything the global warming crowd changed their phrase from global warming 
>> to climate change.  Let’s also note the sun has had an increase in output 
>> over the last century  that fluctuates but also correlates with temperature 
>> and weather changes recorded both on the planet and on other planets such as 
>> temperature changes recorded on Mars although we have a very narrow data set 
>> there so it’s hard to say that’s a trend with a lack of data.
>> 
>> The fact is the global warming crowd or climate change or what ever you call 
>> it now is in a bubble, an Al Gorr generated bubble generated specifically to 
>> put money in Mr. Gorr’s pocket with the carbon credits scheme.  There’s also 
>> a culture of firing scientists who contest the findings which happens in 
>> many established areas of research but especially here.  It’s a scam to put 
>> money in Gorr’s and Decrapio’s pockets among others not a real effort to 
>> reduce pollution.  If it was real then people would be researching real 
>> energy alternatives like Nuclear and wouldn’t cut funding for things like 
>> the national ignition project.  So yes, Global warming is a scam.  These 
>> were the same folks who used to cry nuclear winter and previously claimed an 
>> ice age was coming and change their positions through out history.  The sky 
>> is not falling and I for one am not going to support the enrichment of the 
>> Gorr family based on fabricated science that even the united nations was 
>> forced to admit to.
>> 
>> There are so many wholes in the theory starting with the lack of long term 
>> data and deliberate fudging of data to prove an imaginary point through to 
>> the lack of compensation for the heat reflectivity changes caused by the 
>> increase in use of concrete near temperature measuring stations which cause 
>> a small but measurable delta in the data which they refuse to correct for.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My point was not that it was never reasonable to be skeptical about global 
>>> warming. My point was that it was never sensible to assert that scientists 
>>> were trying to pull off a hoax.  If you think it was ever reasonable to 
>>> assert that global warming was a hoax, then you should not be allowed to 
>>> vote at least until you get your head on straight.
>>> 
>>> PS: I am willing to debate global warming with you any time any place. The 
>>> facts are on my side.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could 
 blow huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect 
 fudge factor data and I can show you hard space weather data that 
 indicates similar warming trends on other planets.;)
 
 That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea 
 but the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next 
 time Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s 
 flying around in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I 
 do in my life I’ll smack him with a trout.
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from 
> voting via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know 
> *something* before they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. 
> If you ever thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed 
> to vote. I don't mean if you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

None of what you say below is a proven fact. Yu've been listening to too 
much Rush Limbaugh. I don't actually care where you got this crap from, 
it's crap. If you want to say otherwise, provide some links. Otherwise, 
I call BS on everything you say.


*I* am not in any Al Gore bubble. That's bullstuff.





On 11/10/2016 11:25 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Well, let’s remember, the UN climate group did fudge their numbers which is a 
proven fact so that does sort of lead towards the hoax factor.  Let’s also 
remember when it’s been demonstrated that recent temperatures are cooling if 
anything the global warming crowd changed their phrase from global warming to 
climate change.  Let’s also note the sun has had an increase in output over the 
last century  that fluctuates but also correlates with temperature and weather 
changes recorded both on the planet and on other planets such as temperature 
changes recorded on Mars although we have a very narrow data set there so it’s 
hard to say that’s a trend with a lack of data.

The fact is the global warming crowd or climate change or what ever you call it 
now is in a bubble, an Al Gorr generated bubble generated specifically to put 
money in Mr. Gorr’s pocket with the carbon credits scheme.  There’s also a 
culture of firing scientists who contest the findings which happens in many 
established areas of research but especially here.  It’s a scam to put money in 
Gorr’s and Decrapio’s pockets among others not a real effort to reduce 
pollution.  If it was real then people would be researching real energy 
alternatives like Nuclear and wouldn’t cut funding for things like the national 
ignition project.  So yes, Global warming is a scam.  These were the same folks 
who used to cry nuclear winter and previously claimed an ice age was coming and 
change their positions through out history.  The sky is not falling and I for 
one am not going to support the enrichment of the Gorr family based on 
fabricated science that even the united nations was forced to admit to.

There are so many wholes in the theory starting with the lack of long term data 
and deliberate fudging of data to prove an imaginary point through to the lack 
of compensation for the heat reflectivity changes caused by the increase in use 
of concrete near temperature measuring stations which cause a small but 
measurable delta in the data which they refuse to correct for.





On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

My point was not that it was never reasonable to be skeptical about global 
warming. My point was that it was never sensible to assert that scientists were 
trying to pull off a hoax.  If you think it was ever reasonable to assert that 
global warming was a hoax, then you should not be allowed to vote at least 
until you get your head on straight.

PS: I am willing to debate global warming with you any time any place. The 
facts are on my side.






On 11/10/2016 10:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before they 
vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought global 
warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if you ever 
hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were deliberately 
making it up, then you should never again be allowed to vote. Well, maybe that 
is a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned your lesson though.




On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
hurt the country as a whole.
So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
county or country can afford.
I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
general public mandate anymore.
Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
home enough to pay a fine for that right?
K

Global Warming

[Todor Fassl]

Here is the proof that global warming is being caused by human activity:

Fact 1. We know absolutely that certain gasses in a planet's atmosphere 
cause the planet to heat up. This can be explained through the laws of 
physics and can be tested experimentally. This is called the "Greenhouse 
Effect".


Fact 2. We know that humans have put an enormous amount of greenhouse 
gas into our planet's atmosphere. This is carbon that has been locked up 
in the earth's crust for millions of years. Here is a link to a web page 
that lists the top oil producing countries. I am going to say it adds up 
to more than a hundred million barrels of oil per day. That's right -- a 
hundred million barrels per day. There are also millions of tons of coal 
and natural gas being mined every day.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2241rank.html

Fact 3. Many scientists from all over the world have calculated how much 
effect the greenhouse gases we have emitted would have.  Those 
calculations, often called climate models, are proven to be accurate 
because they can predict things like droughts and floods to a degree 
that cannot be accounted for by chance. And these climate models 
consistently show that we have indeed put enough greenhouse gas into our 
atmosphere to cause the planet to heat up.


Now, those 3 facts taken together *prove* that global warming is being 
caused by human activity. This stuff about volcanos is what is called 
"fuzzy thinking".  It's akin to a person defending themselves in court 
by saying the police can't prove that the guy he shot didn't just happen 
to drop dead from some other reason right before the bullet hit him.  It 
is not my job to disprove every lame idea a skeptic might propose. The 3 
facts  I gave above prove that global warming is being caused by humans. 
Where is the flaw?





On 11/10/2016 10:46 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
Your absolutely 100% correct again!
Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
warming"  out of the water!
How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some more light 
on this but at this point the only thing that would keep this on topic is that She 
uses a Mac book pro! LOL
Talk soon
Chuck

On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before they 
vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought global 
warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if you ever 
hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were deliberately 
making it up, then you should never again be allowed to vote. Well, maybe that 
is a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned your lesson though.




On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
hurt the country as a whole.
So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
county or country can afford.
I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
general public mandate anymore.
Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
home enough to pay a fine for that right?
Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:


But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
issues, you should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[E.T.]

   There is an endless number of sources. Social media, Youtube, and 
the like, are some good propaganda mills. Its so very easy these days to 
put out misinformation. Same applies to religious propaganda too.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Without H2O there is no life!
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/10/2016 9:39 AM, Robin wrote:

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on TheInformation they are
presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation
&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated yourself about the
issues, you should not vote. But part of the point here is that it's
really not that hard to do a little research.  Get into the habit of
catching yourself saying, "I heard this" or "I think it's like that."
When that happens, google it and make sure.

I know people are going to say there is so much misinformation out
there on the internet. And it's true, you do have to be a little
careful. Do not believe any one source. Consider whether each source
can be trusted. But generally, a simple google search will give you a
handful of sites that can put you at ease as to the facts on any
particular issue. For example, if you research the facts on global
warming, the debate quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we need
to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.



On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I’m not sure about the registration issue, I know of people missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since it’s a great question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote you’re
registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a death
certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed but in
practicality that doesn’t always happen.  It really depends on the
individual state.  In some states you don’t even have to show
identification to vote, in others you do.  In some states they have
early voting meaning you can vote early either at a polling place or
via mail.  In other states you have election day only.  Florida is
an example where you can vote early, Michigan is an example where
you can only vote on election day.  There’s been a provision in
Texas state law that you can vote from space.:)  (Astronauts being
Houston Texas residents have a provision to vote electronically from
the space station as an example)  SO things differ.  TO my knowledge
though there’s no need to check in every year.

Great question.

To bring this squarely on topic though, I wish there was a

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

I’l forward them to you off list if Janina doesn’t directly.

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Do you mind sharing those voter numbers with me privately?  I do not belong 
> to the off topic list, and truly wish to see those, if you do not mind?
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Agree about moving the conversation, Scott. My last post here, but more
>> posts coming on Off Topic.
>> 
>> I'll dig up the voting numbers for you. This is worth the time, imo.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Scott Granados writes:
>>> I don’t buy the minorities quaking in fear.  Trump received 29% of the 
>>> latino vote, that’s more than 1 in 4 although if you view the media you’d 
>>> think it was sub 1%.  Trump also increased the votes received by the 
>>> African American community.  It was still small but it was a larger 
>>> percentage than any republican previously.
>>> 
>>> I also don’t agree with your whites not voting for democrats.  Whites in 
>>> majority voted for president Obama after all and that’s just recent 
>>> history.  You’ve had whites involved in the civil rights effort in large 
>>> numbers for years although that’s not discussed as much.  Hell my own Uncle 
>>> marched on Washington with Dr. King. I don’t buy the racial argument.  Are 
>>> there racists sure are the majority, no I don’t by that.  Maybe as you said 
>>> though, my world view is overly shaped by the people closest to me which do 
>>> not buy in to the racial argument.
>>> 
>>> I would highly encourage us to move this over to the off topic list though. 
>>>  We’ve filled the inboxes of folks only interested in Macs and Devices a 
>>> lot today and that’s probably not fair to them.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:21 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 OK, I would want to agree, but how will you structure the test? I
 warrant you can't do that without discriminating in some way or other.
 
 Recognize that our Constitution has supported tests from its inception. 
 The original
 tests went like this; you had to be a citizen, white, male, and own 
 property.
 
 The property thing went first, the white thing technically went away
 after the Civil War, and the male thing went away beginning with the
 1920 election.
 
 I say the white thing went away "technically," because the extreme
 example, of course, is well known history. In the bad old days in the
 south they used to have these tests for allowing people to register to
 vote. Grade school drop outs who were white would inviariably pass, and
 Ph.D's who were black would routinely fail. Yet the Supremes upheld the
 practice for decades--until a 1960's Congress and President Johnson
 signed legislation that banned this kind of thing.
 
 Here's something to consider. Ever since Voting Rights legislation was
 signed into law, white people in the U.S. have never voted to elect a
 Democrat. Had only whites voted in each election since this legislation
 in 1964 and 1965, there would only have been Republican Presidents. We
 need to acknowledge and consider this fact, too, because it's the
 overwhelming white vote this time around that's given us Trump,
 following on a campaign riddled with racial and gender slurs and
 impercations.  Do you wonder that minority communities are quaking in
 fear just now?
 
 Janina
 
 
 
 Todor Fassl writes:
> But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote? Just
> repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.
> 
> It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure you
> have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for random
> medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.
> 
> Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the issues, 
> you
> should STAY HOME!
> 
> 
> repeating that they should vote is NO answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:
>> I Disagree
>> Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
>> No Matter What iff Eligible
>> At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
>>> I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
>>> how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
>>> havent studied the issues, please stay home.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 For our friends in the US,
   Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
 that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
 regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
 your voice heard if you haven’t already.
   Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polli

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Karen Lewellen]

Do you mind sharing those voter numbers with me privately?  I do not 
belong to the off topic list, and truly wish to see those, if you do not 
mind?

Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:


Agree about moving the conversation, Scott. My last post here, but more
posts coming on Off Topic.

I'll dig up the voting numbers for you. This is worth the time, imo.

Best,

Janina

Scott Granados writes:

I don’t buy the minorities quaking in fear.  Trump received 29% of the latino 
vote, that’s more than 1 in 4 although if you view the media you’d think it was 
sub 1%.  Trump also increased the votes received by the African American 
community.  It was still small but it was a larger percentage than any 
republican previously.

I also don’t agree with your whites not voting for democrats.  Whites in 
majority voted for president Obama after all and that’s just recent history.  
You’ve had whites involved in the civil rights effort in large numbers for 
years although that’s not discussed as much.  Hell my own Uncle marched on 
Washington with Dr. King. I don’t buy the racial argument.  Are there racists 
sure are the majority, no I don’t by that.  Maybe as you said though, my world 
view is overly shaped by the people closest to me which do not buy in to the 
racial argument.

I would highly encourage us to move this over to the off topic list though.  
We’ve filled the inboxes of folks only interested in Macs and Devices a lot 
today and that’s probably not fair to them.



On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:21 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

OK, I would want to agree, but how will you structure the test? I
warrant you can't do that without discriminating in some way or other.

Recognize that our Constitution has supported tests from its inception. The 
original
tests went like this; you had to be a citizen, white, male, and own property.

The property thing went first, the white thing technically went away
after the Civil War, and the male thing went away beginning with the
1920 election.

I say the white thing went away "technically," because the extreme
example, of course, is well known history. In the bad old days in the
south they used to have these tests for allowing people to register to
vote. Grade school drop outs who were white would inviariably pass, and
Ph.D's who were black would routinely fail. Yet the Supremes upheld the
practice for decades--until a 1960's Congress and President Johnson
signed legislation that banned this kind of thing.

Here's something to consider. Ever since Voting Rights legislation was
signed into law, white people in the U.S. have never voted to elect a
Democrat. Had only whites voted in each election since this legislation
in 1964 and 1965, there would only have been Republican Presidents. We
need to acknowledge and consider this fact, too, because it's the
overwhelming white vote this time around that's given us Trump,
following on a campaign riddled with racial and gender slurs and
impercations.  Do you wonder that minority communities are quaking in
fear just now?

Janina



Todor Fassl writes:

But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote? Just
repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure you
have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for random
medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the issues, you
should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

I Disagree
Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
No Matter What iff Eligible
At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:

I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
havent studied the issues, please stay home.



On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

For our friends in the US,
   Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
your voice heard if you haven’t already.
   Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits
to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
volunteer services as well.
   Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy Cream
will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
   Remember that many service men and women have fought and died
for your right to vote so let’s not let them down an

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Robin]

Not All Eligible Voters have Access to TheInformation
People can only make Decisions based on 
TheInformation they are presented with & either SearchOut MoreInformation

&
they also have to LiveWith TheConsequences of TheirDecisions
At 08:07 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:

Google can tell you stuff like this, you know.

I've been saying that if you haven't educated 
yourself about the issues, you should not vote. 
But part of the point here is that it's really 
not that hard to do a little research.  Get into 
the habit of catching yourself saying, "I heard 
this" or "I think it's like that." When that happens, google it and make sure.


I know people are going to say there is so much 
misinformation out there on the internet. And 
it's true, you do have to be a little careful. 
Do not believe any one source. Consider whether 
each source can be trusted. But generally, a 
simple google search will give you a handful of 
sites that can put you at ease as to the facts 
on any particular issue. For example, if you 
research the facts on global warming, the debate 
quickly becomes one as to how aggressively we 
need to address that problem rather than whether it is a problem at all.




On 11/09/2016 07:45 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
 It can be tighter than this, depending on where the person is
registered. It  is by election cycle,  and how that can  be defined
varies.
Still it would be difficult to stay on the rolls if you miss more than
two cycles, sometimes if you miss only one.
For example I missed the 2008 presidential  election, even though I did
vote  in 2004.  I had to register again in 2012.
what I am  most interested in myself are the turnout percentages this
year. The  numbers are  unfortunately rarely a real majority.  so I want
to learn both   how many eligible voters did participate,  as well as
those who voted for  a different presidential candidate on the ballot
instead.
 Going back to the question though it is on a state by state basis even
if you are considered to be an overseas voter.
Karen


On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


I’m not sure about the registration issue, I know of people missing
presidential elections and not having two reregister.  I think this
may be on a state by state basis but I do not know for certain.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:19 AM, David Chittenden 
wrote:

One correction, if memory serves, once a person is registered to vote
in a specific location, they remain registered until they miss a US
Presidential election. After missing a Presidential election, the
person needs to reregister. Therefore, a dead person will only remain
on the voter roles until after the next Presidential election.

As for the example about the prestuffed metal balet box, There are a
few cities which were known for this behavior. Chicago and New York
City both come to mind as large practitioners of this practice,
between 1890 and 1915. In both of these cities, the democrats were
caught doing so. In fact, it was the practice in New York City which
earned the dems the monicker of the donkey and the republicans the
elephant by press cartoonists.

All that said, both parties were caught using such practices at
various times and in various localities. This is all well-documented
in US history.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 9/11/2016, at 07:42, Scott Granados 
wrote:

Hi, Alex is right we should stick to the topic.  Remember I did try
to leave politics out of it and just encourage people to flex their
voting muscles no matter how they wished.;)

To answer your question though since it’s a great question, no we
have no such requirement.  Once you register to vote you’re
registered.  Now there are things that happen for example if a death
certificate is issued that registry entry should be removed but in
practicality that doesn’t always happen.  It really depends on the
individual state.  In some states you don’t even have to show
identification to vote, in others you do.  In some states they have
early voting meaning you can vote early either at a polling place or
via mail.  In other states you have election day only.  Florida is
an example where you can vote early, Michigan is an example where
you can only vote on election day.  There’s been a provision in
Texas state law that you can vote from space.:)  (Astronauts being
Houston Texas residents have a provision to vote electronically from
the space station as an example)  SO things differ.  TO my knowledge
though there’s no need to check in every year.

Great question.

To bring this squarely on topic though, I wish there was a way to
vote securely online.  I realize that’s very difficult to do safely
but how nice would it be to just fire up the old iPad or laptop and
vote.  We could be a lot more direct instead of so representative
like we are now but the security of such a thing just couldn’t be
guarantied.



On Nov 8, 2016, a

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

Telecommunications is something I do know about.:)  I happen to support that 
law.  I don’t like or support or even work on dialer projects any more.  I find 
robodialing morally objectionable. And don’t get me started on collection 
agencies.  And in the paranoia is alive and well front, I just got autodialed 
by a security company on my cell phone.  I’m reporting them out of principle 
because I’m also on the do not call list.

Sometimes I feel like I’m bugged.:)


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Terrific article Scott.
> It references the same regulation some consumer advocates are using to 
> challenge automatic dialing say from collections agents.
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Very enlightening article, Scott. Thanks!
>> 
>> Scott Granados writes:
>>> John, did a little googling, the problem is pollsters can’t use automated 
>>> dialers on cellphone exchange blocks.  So I suppose you could dial by hand 
>>> which may be the work around but you can’t use an automated system.
>>> 
>>> Read more here.
>>> http://www.wisegeek.com/why-cant-pollsters-call-cell-phones.htm
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
 
 There was an Oct 31 discussion on NPR Politics podcast. I like the 
 Overcast pod catcher myself for finding these things. (now it is Apple 
 relevant.)
 
 In this podcast, talked with a PEW pollster who said they get a listing of 
 all cell phones and randomly call them. So somehow the rules saying cells 
 are out of bounds must have changed.
 
 As to why multiple calls to one phone? Only reason that should happen is 
 if the poll is a tracking poll. There was one discussion about how a 
 single black man in a midwest city was influencing a poll because he was 
 the only person they could get with that demographics so they multiple his 
 opinion be more than  10 to account for population distribution.
 
 
 On 10 November 2016 at 10:39, Scott Granados >>> > wrote:
 You’re not supposed to, that’s very interesting.  I’ve rolled out dialers 
 before and you’re supposed to prevent dialing blocks of DIDs assigned to 
 cell carriers.
 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Todor Fassl  > wrote:
> 
> I get calls from pollsters all the time on my cell phone.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 07:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> You knew the signs were out there, it was a Brexit type event all over 
>> again.  If you listened to the elite media and ruling class there was no 
>> way, if you listened to the actual people you knew it was going to 
>> happen.
>> 
>> Polling is dead.  There’s a technological and believe it or not on topic 
>> reason for it as well.  Apple and Google have us all cutting the cord 
>> and living with cell phones now.  Pollsters can’t call cell phones.  The 
>> fewer hard lines there are left out there the fewer people to sample.
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Most people I know are still in a state of shock.  I didn't think this 
>>> would happen in a million years.  Hilary wasn't a good candidate, but 
>>> still ...
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Bummer dudes and dudettes!
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
 Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 12:50 AM
 To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via >>> >
 Subject: Get out there and vote everyone!
 
 For our friends in the US,
   Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it that way.  
 Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty regardless of your 
 party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have your voice heard if 
 you haven’t already.
   Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling place, Lyft 
 has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google also has the 
 means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits to get to 
 your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and volunteer 
 services as well.
   Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available today to 
 voters.  Keep that “I voted” sticker and Krispy Cream will give you a 
 free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving free coffee, and 
 many small businesses are having election da

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

I hope so, I’m always willing to learn, especially from someone like yourself 
who provides the hard facts.

See you on over there

For anyone else interested so we can quiet down the Mac list it’s 
joff-topic-is-on-topic+subscr...@googlegroups.com


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:17 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agree about moving the conversation, Scott. My last post here, but more
> posts coming on Off Topic.
> 
> I'll dig up the voting numbers for you. This is worth the time, imo.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Scott Granados writes:
>> I don’t buy the minorities quaking in fear.  Trump received 29% of the 
>> latino vote, that’s more than 1 in 4 although if you view the media you’d 
>> think it was sub 1%.  Trump also increased the votes received by the African 
>> American community.  It was still small but it was a larger percentage than 
>> any republican previously.
>> 
>> I also don’t agree with your whites not voting for democrats.  Whites in 
>> majority voted for president Obama after all and that’s just recent history. 
>>  You’ve had whites involved in the civil rights effort in large numbers for 
>> years although that’s not discussed as much.  Hell my own Uncle marched on 
>> Washington with Dr. King. I don’t buy the racial argument.  Are there 
>> racists sure are the majority, no I don’t by that.  Maybe as you said 
>> though, my world view is overly shaped by the people closest to me which do 
>> not buy in to the racial argument.
>> 
>> I would highly encourage us to move this over to the off topic list though.  
>> We’ve filled the inboxes of folks only interested in Macs and Devices a lot 
>> today and that’s probably not fair to them.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:21 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK, I would want to agree, but how will you structure the test? I
>>> warrant you can't do that without discriminating in some way or other.
>>> 
>>> Recognize that our Constitution has supported tests from its inception. The 
>>> original
>>> tests went like this; you had to be a citizen, white, male, and own 
>>> property.
>>> 
>>> The property thing went first, the white thing technically went away
>>> after the Civil War, and the male thing went away beginning with the
>>> 1920 election.
>>> 
>>> I say the white thing went away "technically," because the extreme
>>> example, of course, is well known history. In the bad old days in the
>>> south they used to have these tests for allowing people to register to
>>> vote. Grade school drop outs who were white would inviariably pass, and
>>> Ph.D's who were black would routinely fail. Yet the Supremes upheld the
>>> practice for decades--until a 1960's Congress and President Johnson
>>> signed legislation that banned this kind of thing.
>>> 
>>> Here's something to consider. Ever since Voting Rights legislation was
>>> signed into law, white people in the U.S. have never voted to elect a
>>> Democrat. Had only whites voted in each election since this legislation
>>> in 1964 and 1965, there would only have been Republican Presidents. We
>>> need to acknowledge and consider this fact, too, because it's the
>>> overwhelming white vote this time around that's given us Trump,
>>> following on a campaign riddled with racial and gender slurs and
>>> impercations.  Do you wonder that minority communities are quaking in
>>> fear just now?
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Todor Fassl writes:
 But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote? Just
 repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.
 
 It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure you
 have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for random
 medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.
 
 Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the issues, 
 you
 should STAY HOME!
 
 
 repeating that they should vote is NO answer.
 
 
 
 
 
 On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:
> I Disagree
> Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
> No Matter What iff Eligible
> At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
>> I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
>> how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
>> havent studied the issues, please stay home.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> For our friends in the US,
>>>   Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
>>> that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
>>> regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
>>> your voice heard if you haven’t already.
>>>   Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
>>> place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
>>> also has the means to arrange a ride f

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Robin]

Why should EveryOne Vote
Cause
They BeingEveryOne has TheRight ToDoSo
EvenIf they are UnInformed concerning TheIssues
No One's Voice should be Muffled or Silenced

Minorities were considered ToBe UnInformed 
AsItPertainsTo TheIssues In The Past, but Their 
RightToVote shouldn't be TakenAway because of that


I don't Agree with TheOutCome of TheElection 
either, but I am Not One to Silence OpposingViews
I would rather TryTo Educate Others to 
MyPointOfView & Hear TheirView & Allow them 
TheFreedom to Vote as They Desire & Choose


Based on YourReply & YourResponse, you Appear 
ToBe IN Favor of VoterSupression of TheUnEducated


Since ThisCountry is More & More UnEducated, TheirVoice should be Heard

At 07:31 AM 11/10/2016, you wrote:
But why? Why should people who know nothing 
about the issues vote? Just repeating your 
opinion that they should vote is no answer.


It's like saying you should get brain surgery 
even if you're not sure you have something wrong 
with your brain. Just sign yourself up for 
random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.


Instead of picking someone at random, if you 
haven't studied the issues, you should STAY HOME!



repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

I Disagree
Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
No Matter What iff Eligible
At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:

I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
havent studied the issues, please stay home.



On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

For our friends in the US,
Totally apolitical here and please please letâ€ââ„¢s keep it
that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
your voice heard if you haven̢۪t already.

.

Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits
to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
volunteer services as well.
Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
today to voters.  Keep that “I voted•€  sticker and Krispy Cream
will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
Remember that many service men and women have fought and died
for your right to vote so let̢۪s not let them dowdown and make sure we
take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.


--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all 
members of the Mac Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the 
running of this list, or if you feel that a 
member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are 
subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop 
receiving emails from it, send an email to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

Well, let’s remember, the UN climate group did fudge their numbers which is a 
proven fact so that does sort of lead towards the hoax factor.  Let’s also 
remember when it’s been demonstrated that recent temperatures are cooling if 
anything the global warming crowd changed their phrase from global warming to 
climate change.  Let’s also note the sun has had an increase in output over the 
last century  that fluctuates but also correlates with temperature and weather 
changes recorded both on the planet and on other planets such as temperature 
changes recorded on Mars although we have a very narrow data set there so it’s 
hard to say that’s a trend with a lack of data.

The fact is the global warming crowd or climate change or what ever you call it 
now is in a bubble, an Al Gorr generated bubble generated specifically to put 
money in Mr. Gorr’s pocket with the carbon credits scheme.  There’s also a 
culture of firing scientists who contest the findings which happens in many 
established areas of research but especially here.  It’s a scam to put money in 
Gorr’s and Decrapio’s pockets among others not a real effort to reduce 
pollution.  If it was real then people would be researching real energy 
alternatives like Nuclear and wouldn’t cut funding for things like the national 
ignition project.  So yes, Global warming is a scam.  These were the same folks 
who used to cry nuclear winter and previously claimed an ice age was coming and 
change their positions through out history.  The sky is not falling and I for 
one am not going to support the enrichment of the Gorr family based on 
fabricated science that even the united nations was forced to admit to.

There are so many wholes in the theory starting with the lack of long term data 
and deliberate fudging of data to prove an imaginary point through to the lack 
of compensation for the heat reflectivity changes caused by the increase in use 
of concrete near temperature measuring stations which cause a small but 
measurable delta in the data which they refuse to correct for.
 


 
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> My point was not that it was never reasonable to be skeptical about global 
> warming. My point was that it was never sensible to assert that scientists 
> were trying to pull off a hoax.  If you think it was ever reasonable to 
> assert that global warming was a hoax, then you should not be allowed to vote 
> at least until you get your head on straight.
> 
> PS: I am willing to debate global warming with you any time any place. The 
> facts are on my side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 10:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
>> huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge 
>> factor data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates 
>> similar warming trends on other planets.;)
>> 
>> That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea 
>> but the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
>> Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying 
>> around in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my 
>> life I’ll smack him with a trout.
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from 
>>> voting via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* 
>>> before they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever 
>>> thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I 
>>> don't mean if you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed 
>>> scientists were deliberately making it up, then you should never again be 
>>> allowed to vote. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. You should have to prove 
>>> you have learned your lesson though.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
 One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
 recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
 hurt the country as a whole.
 So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
 The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
 county or country can afford.
 I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
 choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
 like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
 general public mandate anymore.
 Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
 incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
 home enough to pay a fine for that right?
 Kare
 
 
 On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:
 
> But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
> Just repeating yo

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Agree about moving the conversation, Scott. My last post here, but more
posts coming on Off Topic.

I'll dig up the voting numbers for you. This is worth the time, imo.

Best,

Janina

Scott Granados writes:
> I don’t buy the minorities quaking in fear.  Trump received 29% of the latino 
> vote, that’s more than 1 in 4 although if you view the media you’d think it 
> was sub 1%.  Trump also increased the votes received by the African American 
> community.  It was still small but it was a larger percentage than any 
> republican previously.
> 
> I also don’t agree with your whites not voting for democrats.  Whites in 
> majority voted for president Obama after all and that’s just recent history.  
> You’ve had whites involved in the civil rights effort in large numbers for 
> years although that’s not discussed as much.  Hell my own Uncle marched on 
> Washington with Dr. King. I don’t buy the racial argument.  Are there racists 
> sure are the majority, no I don’t by that.  Maybe as you said though, my 
> world view is overly shaped by the people closest to me which do not buy in 
> to the racial argument.
> 
> I would highly encourage us to move this over to the off topic list though.  
> We’ve filled the inboxes of folks only interested in Macs and Devices a lot 
> today and that’s probably not fair to them.
> 
> 
> > On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:21 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > OK, I would want to agree, but how will you structure the test? I
> > warrant you can't do that without discriminating in some way or other.
> > 
> > Recognize that our Constitution has supported tests from its inception. The 
> > original
> > tests went like this; you had to be a citizen, white, male, and own 
> > property.
> > 
> > The property thing went first, the white thing technically went away
> > after the Civil War, and the male thing went away beginning with the
> > 1920 election.
> > 
> > I say the white thing went away "technically," because the extreme
> > example, of course, is well known history. In the bad old days in the
> > south they used to have these tests for allowing people to register to
> > vote. Grade school drop outs who were white would inviariably pass, and
> > Ph.D's who were black would routinely fail. Yet the Supremes upheld the
> > practice for decades--until a 1960's Congress and President Johnson
> > signed legislation that banned this kind of thing.
> > 
> > Here's something to consider. Ever since Voting Rights legislation was
> > signed into law, white people in the U.S. have never voted to elect a
> > Democrat. Had only whites voted in each election since this legislation
> > in 1964 and 1965, there would only have been Republican Presidents. We
> > need to acknowledge and consider this fact, too, because it's the
> > overwhelming white vote this time around that's given us Trump,
> > following on a campaign riddled with racial and gender slurs and
> > impercations.  Do you wonder that minority communities are quaking in
> > fear just now?
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Todor Fassl writes:
> >> But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote? Just
> >> repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.
> >> 
> >> It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure you
> >> have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for random
> >> medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.
> >> 
> >> Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the issues, 
> >> you
> >> should STAY HOME!
> >> 
> >> 
> >> repeating that they should vote is NO answer.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:
> >>> I Disagree
> >>> Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
> >>> No Matter What iff Eligible
> >>> At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
>  I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
>  how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If you
>  havent studied the issues, please stay home.
>  
>  
>  
>  On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > For our friends in the US,
> >Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
> > that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
> > regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have
> > your voice heard if you haven’t already.
> >Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
> > place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google
> > also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits
> > to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
> > volunteer services as well.
> >Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
> > today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy Cream
> > will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
> >>>

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

My point was not that it was never reasonable to be skeptical about 
global warming. My point was that it was never sensible to assert that 
scientists were trying to pull off a hoax.  If you think it was ever 
reasonable to assert that global warming was a hoax, then you should not 
be allowed to vote at least until you get your head on straight.


PS: I am willing to debate global warming with you any time any place. 
The facts are on my side.







On 11/10/2016 10:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before they 
vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought global 
warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if you ever 
hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were deliberately 
making it up, then you should never again be allowed to vote. Well, maybe that 
is a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned your lesson though.




On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
hurt the country as a whole.
So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
county or country can afford.
I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
general public mandate anymore.
Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
home enough to pay a fine for that right?
Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:


But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
issues, you should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

I Disagree
Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
No Matter What iff Eligible
At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:

 I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
 how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If

you

 havent studied the issues, please stay home.

 On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

 For our friends in the US,
 Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
 that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
 regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and

have

 your voice heard if you haven’t already.
 Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
 place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and

Google

 also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some

credits

 to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
 volunteer services as well.
 Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
 today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy >

 Cream

 will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
 free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
 promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
 Remember that many service men and women have fought and

died

 for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make

sure > >  we

 take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
 right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.
 --

 Todd

 --

 The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 Visionaries list.

 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this

list,

 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
 itself.

 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mar

Re: Voiceover not playing through speakers

[Antonio Guimaraes]

Terje and all,

I went to the Apple store and got the issue resolved.

They ran through a diagnostic boot up which rerouted the sound back to the 
headphones and speaker as expected.

Hope this helps.

Antonio

> On Nov 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> Do not help, but i had the same problem. It is clear that it have something 
> to do with soundcard priority i.e. one sound card is set to get top priority 
> by getting the all via the audio software player. Can not reproduce it by wil 
> cince it not happens every time. Maybe once in a 14 day period. Thought i had 
> a solution. Last times i restart the mac.
> 
> Take care
> 
>> 8. nov. 2016 kl. 15.29 skrev Antonio Guimaraes :
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> 
>> I tried that but it only results in the clicks from VoiceOver playing 
>> through the speakers, not the voice itself.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, go back to your sounds preferences and select the output you wish to 
>>> use.  
>>> 
>>> I think that should do the trick.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
 On Nov 8, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Antonio Guimaraes  
 wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 VoiceOver has all of a sudden stopped coming through my Mac speakers or 
 headphone jack.
 
 It only plays through a bluetooth headset I thankfully already had paired 
 with my phone.
 
 How could I get it to play back through speakers.
 
 Antonio
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have a

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I think the professional politicians know the value of polls the best.
They're valuable up to a point, because there's no alternative other
than direct personal knowledge, or the knowledge and view of someone you
trust as an authority.

I'm simply suggesting there's not a categorical imperative one way or
the other. The market itself is a kind of poll, after all. It's the
cumulative bet on tomorrow's return, and it paints an interesting
picture.

Looking at just two sectors from yesterday's big rise, why was pharma up
so much and consumer down so much? Isn't this the market saying, aha, a
Trump administration won't make Medicare negotiate drug prices, so
pharma will get to continue with obscene profits, but consumers are
actually going to be hit in the pocketbook (as has happened with every
Republican tax initiative going back at least to Nixon)?

Talk about draining swamps. Guess the pharma swamp gets to grow,
according to the market.



Scott Granados writes:
> Well I wasn’t making a political claim based on party.  I fully agree, 
> everyone was wrong.  It’s like Brexit, the Elite media and ruling classes 
> completely missed the boat.  I totally agree that no one of us has a monopoly 
> on any sort of knowledge at all but I do think you can glean a lot by putting 
> your ear to the ground or just paying attention.  Maybe that only gives you a 
> picture of the most narrow window but I think it’s something people miss.  I 
> called ahead of time Brexit and made money on it as a result, same with 
> Trump’s victory.  Also remember to folks thinking I’m being political I 
> didn’t vote for either and didn’t support either candidate.
> 
> So Janinia, you raise extremely valid points and well presented but I’m just 
> not sure the polling is worth the paper it’s printed on.  Note the 
> discussions recently on the total rejection of polling in the trading 
> community.
> 
> You’ve given me a lot to think about though.
>  
> 
> 
> > On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:24 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I must disagree, Scott.
> > 
> > No one of us hears enough "actual people" to know much of anything. We
> > know our own circle of contacts, that's about it. It's a very big
> > country. I warrant I don't know much about the actual people in Boulder,
> > Colorado or Portland, Oregon. Heck, I don't even know much about the
> > actual people in Frederick, Maryland, and that's just up the road from
> > me a piece.
> > 
> > 
> > There are those among us, however, for whom this kind if knowledge is a
> > specialty. Good politicians know these things, as do good political
> > reporters.
> > 
> > We get a glimpse into the level of this knowledge rarely on TV, but we
> > do get it as results pour in of an election eve. Think of the guy
> > talking about so many votes from this county, and then talking about how
> > many votes are possibly left in that other county that hasn't yet
> > reported. Then they say "Obama go so many in 2012, and Romney so many,
> > so there might be as much as XX votes still available from there, and
> > those people tend to vote blank party." That's knowledge. They can talk
> > this stuff like we talk networking and cell technology here, off the top
> > of their heads with an occasional check of some fact or other.
> > 
> > The rest is turnout. Trump won because more of his people voted. That's
> > the bottom line. Clinton underperformed Obama 2012 by 6 million votes,
> > and underperformed Obama 2008 by 10 million votes. Meanwhile, Trump
> > underperformed Romney by only a million (or so).
> > 
> > Wisconsin went to Trump because too many Democrats in and around
> > Milwaukee stayed home. Ditto for Philadelphia, even though the
> > Philadelphia Democratic machine got the turnout far closer to 2012
> > levels than was the norm across the nation.
> > 
> > So, what did polling get wrong? Levels of turnout appears to be the
> > answer, boiled down to the fundamentals. And, that's always a guessing
> > game in advance of the actual event. That's why sites like five thirty
> > eight dot com provides confidence percentages. And, whether the
> > confidence level is 70%, or 80%, there's still the balance to make up
> > 100% because there is the builtin acknowledgement that "we could be
> > wrong."
> > 
> > Nor should we blame media, or liberal bias. The RNC also had it wrong,
> > and the Trump people themselves were expecting to lose early in the
> > evening.
> > 
> > 
> > To my mind this election is an illustration of the old "you can lead a
> > horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink" adage. The best get
> > out the vote organization still can't make people actually vote, though
> > the Philadelphia Democratic machine does illustrate how a really good
> > machine can get you close. Note that the Philadelphia machine is well
> > organized all the way down to the ward and precinct level.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > Scott Granados writes:
> >> You knew the signs were out t

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Scott,
Your absolutely 100% correct again!
Heres just 1 thing that blows "climate change" formally known as "global 
warming"  out of the water!
How much carbon does a average volcano spew out in just 1 major eruption?
Can anybody stop a volcano from erupting?
My Daughter who holds a "Ph.D. in Applied Physics: could shed some more light 
on this but at this point the only thing that would keep this on topic is that 
She uses a Mac book pro! LOL
Talk soon
Chuck
 
On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

> Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
> huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge 
> factor data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar 
> warming trends on other planets.;)
> 
> That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
> the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
> Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
> in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life 
> I’ll smack him with a trout.
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
>> 
>> The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
>> via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before 
>> they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought 
>> global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if 
>> you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were 
>> deliberately making it up, then you should never again be allowed to vote. 
>> Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned 
>> your lesson though.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>> One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
>>> recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
>>> hurt the country as a whole.
>>> So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
>>> The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
>>> county or country can afford.
>>> I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
>>> choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
>>> like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
>>> general public mandate anymore.
>>> Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
>>> incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
>>> home enough to pay a fine for that right?
>>> Kare
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:
>>> 
 But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
 Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.
 
 It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
 you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
 random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.
 
 Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
 issues, you should STAY HOME!
 
 
 repeating that they should vote is NO answer.
 
 
 
 
 
 On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:
> I Disagree
> Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
> No Matter What iff Eligible
> At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
>> I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
>> how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If
> you
>> havent studied the issues, please stay home.
> On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> For our friends in the US,
>>> Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
>>> that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
>>> regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and
> have
>>> your voice heard if you haven’t already.
>>> Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
>>> place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and
> Google
>>> also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some
> credits
>>> to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
>>> volunteer services as well.
>>> Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
>>> today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy >
>> Cream
>>> will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
>>> free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
>>> promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
>>> Remember that many service men and women have fought and
> died
>>> for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make
> sure > >  we
>>> take advantage of our most powerful expressi

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Karen Lewellen]

Terrific article Scott.
It references the same regulation some consumer advocates are using to 
challenge automatic dialing say from collections agents.

Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:


Very enlightening article, Scott. Thanks!

Scott Granados writes:

John, did a little googling, the problem is pollsters can’t use automated 
dialers on cellphone exchange blocks.  So I suppose you could dial by hand 
which may be the work around but you can’t use an automated system.

Read more here.
http://www.wisegeek.com/why-cant-pollsters-call-cell-phones.htm


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

There was an Oct 31 discussion on NPR Politics podcast. I like the Overcast pod 
catcher myself for finding these things. (now it is Apple relevant.)

In this podcast, talked with a PEW pollster who said they get a listing of all 
cell phones and randomly call them. So somehow the rules saying cells are out 
of bounds must have changed.

As to why multiple calls to one phone? Only reason that should happen is if the 
poll is a tracking poll. There was one discussion about how a single black man 
in a midwest city was influencing a poll because he was the only person they 
could get with that demographics so they multiple his opinion be more than  10 
to account for population distribution.


On 10 November 2016 at 10:39, Scott Granados mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> wrote:
You’re not supposed to, that’s very interesting.  I’ve rolled out dialers 
before and you’re supposed to prevent dialing blocks of DIDs assigned to cell 
carriers.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Todor Fassl mailto:fassl@gmail.com>> wrote:

I get calls from pollsters all the time on my cell phone.



On 11/10/2016 07:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

You knew the signs were out there, it was a Brexit type event all over again.  
If you listened to the elite media and ruling class there was no way, if you 
listened to the actual people you knew it was going to happen.

Polling is dead.  There’s a technological and believe it or not on topic reason 
for it as well.  Apple and Google have us all cutting the cord and living with 
cell phones now.  Pollsters can’t call cell phones.  The fewer hard lines there 
are left out there the fewer people to sample.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Donna Goodin mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote:

Most people I know are still in a state of shock.  I didn't think this would 
happen in a million years.  Hilary wasn't a good candidate, but still ...
Cheers,
Donna

On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Bummer dudes and dudettes!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On 
Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 12:50 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Get out there and vote everyone!

For our friends in the US,
   Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it that way.  Get out 
there and vote today, do your civic duty regardless of your party / candidate / 
beliefs just get out and have your voice heard if you haven’t already.
   Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling place, Lyft has a 
similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google also has the means to 
arrange a ride for you and provide some credits to get to your closest polls.  
the parties are offering rides and volunteer services as well.
   Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available today to voters.  
Keep that “I voted” sticker and Krispy Cream will give you a free donut, 
McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving free coffee, and many small businesses 
are having election day promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
   Remember that many service men and women have fought and died for your right 
to vote so let’s not let them down and make sure we take advantage of our most 
powerful expression of our freedom, our right to vote.  Now get out there and 
be safe everyone.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
 and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google G

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Scott Granados]

Who boy we should move this over to the off topic list because I could blow 
huge holes in your global warming position.  Scientists did infect fudge factor 
data and I can show you hard space weather data that indicates similar warming 
trends on other planets.;)

That doesn’t mean I think we should be pumping crap in to the air and sea but 
the global warming deal is just a scheme to enrich a few.  The next time 
Leonardo Decrapio tells me I need to use less energy while he’s flying around 
in his Gulfstream G5-50 burning more energy per hour than I do in my life I’ll 
smack him with a trout.

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> 
> The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from voting 
> via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know *something* before 
> they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. If you ever thought 
> global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. I don't mean if 
> you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you ever believed scientists were 
> deliberately making it up, then you should never again be allowed to vote. 
> Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. You should have to prove you have learned 
> your lesson though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
>> recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
>> hurt the country as a whole.
>> So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
>> The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
>> county or country can afford.
>> I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
>> choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
>> like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
>> general public mandate anymore.
>> Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
>> incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
>> home enough to pay a fine for that right?
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:
>> 
>>> But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
>>> Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.
>>> 
>>> It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
>>> you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
>>> random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.
>>> 
>>> Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
>>> issues, you should STAY HOME!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> repeating that they should vote is NO answer.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:
 I Disagree
 Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
 No Matter What iff Eligible
 At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
 >  I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
 >  how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If
 you
 >  havent studied the issues, please stay home.
 > > > >  On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 > >  For our friends in the US,
 > >  Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
 > >  that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
 > >  regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and
 have
 > >  your voice heard if you haven’t already.
 > >  Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
 > >  place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and
 Google
 > >  also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some
 credits
 > >  to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
 > >  volunteer services as well.
 > >  Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
 > >  today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy >
 >  Cream
 > >  will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
 > >  free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
 > >  promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
 > >  Remember that many service men and women have fought and
 died
 > >  for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make
 sure > >  we
 > >  take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
 > >  right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.
 > >  --
 >  Todd
 > >  --
 >  The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 >  Visionaries list.
 > >  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
 list,
 >  or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
 >  the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
 >  itself.
 > >  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
 

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Very enlightening article, Scott. Thanks!

Scott Granados writes:
> John, did a little googling, the problem is pollsters can’t use automated 
> dialers on cellphone exchange blocks.  So I suppose you could dial by hand 
> which may be the work around but you can’t use an automated system.
> 
> Read more here.
> http://www.wisegeek.com/why-cant-pollsters-call-cell-phones.htm
> 
> > On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> > 
> > There was an Oct 31 discussion on NPR Politics podcast. I like the Overcast 
> > pod catcher myself for finding these things. (now it is Apple relevant.) 
> > 
> > In this podcast, talked with a PEW pollster who said they get a listing of 
> > all cell phones and randomly call them. So somehow the rules saying cells 
> > are out of bounds must have changed. 
> > 
> > As to why multiple calls to one phone? Only reason that should happen is if 
> > the poll is a tracking poll. There was one discussion about how a single 
> > black man in a midwest city was influencing a poll because he was the only 
> > person they could get with that demographics so they multiple his opinion 
> > be more than  10 to account for population distribution. 
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 November 2016 at 10:39, Scott Granados  > > wrote:
> > You’re not supposed to, that’s very interesting.  I’ve rolled out dialers 
> > before and you’re supposed to prevent dialing blocks of DIDs assigned to 
> > cell carriers.
> > 
> > > On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Todor Fassl  > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I get calls from pollsters all the time on my cell phone.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/10/2016 07:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > >> You knew the signs were out there, it was a Brexit type event all over 
> > >> again.  If you listened to the elite media and ruling class there was no 
> > >> way, if you listened to the actual people you knew it was going to 
> > >> happen.
> > >>
> > >> Polling is dead.  There’s a technological and believe it or not on topic 
> > >> reason for it as well.  Apple and Google have us all cutting the cord 
> > >> and living with cell phones now.  Pollsters can’t call cell phones.  The 
> > >> fewer hard lines there are left out there the fewer people to sample.
> > >>
> > >>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Donna Goodin  > >>> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Most people I know are still in a state of shock.  I didn't think this 
> > >>> would happen in a million years.  Hilary wasn't a good candidate, but 
> > >>> still ...
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>> Donna
> >  On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Simon Fogarty  >  > wrote:
> > 
> >  Bummer dudes and dudettes!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >   
> >  [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >  ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> >  Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 12:50 AM
> >  To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via  >  >
> >  Subject: Get out there and vote everyone!
> > 
> >  For our friends in the US,
> > Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it that way.  
> >  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty regardless of your 
> >  party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have your voice heard if 
> >  you haven’t already.
> > Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling place, 
> >  Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google also has 
> >  the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits to get to 
> >  your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and volunteer 
> >  services as well.
> > Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available today to 
> >  voters.  Keep that “I voted” sticker and Krispy Cream will give you a 
> >  free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving free coffee, and 
> >  many small businesses are having election day promotions that include 
> >  discounts or out right freebies.
> > Remember that many service men and women have fought and died for 
> >  your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make sure we take 
> >  advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our right to 
> >  vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.
> > 
> >  --
> >  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >  Visionaries list.
> > 
> >  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> >  or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> >  the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
> >  itself.
> > 
> >  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

[Todor Fassl]

The USA has a long, disgraceful history of preventing minorities from 
voting via poll tests. So I know making people prove they know 
*something* before they vote is not practical.  It would be nice though. 
If you ever thought global warming was a hoax, you shouldn't be allowed 
to vote. I don't mean if you ever hoped it wasn't true. I mean if you 
ever believed scientists were deliberately making it up, then you should 
never again be allowed to vote. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. You 
should have to prove you have learned your lesson though.





On 11/10/2016 10:13 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

One thing  I appreciate about countries like Australia is that they
recognize that those who choose not to participate in the voting process
hurt the country as a whole.
So, they did and I believe still do, require you to vote or pay a fine.
The choice to be  willfully ignorant is often not something that a city,
county or country can afford.
I respect that many might not have enjoyed the menu options, but
choosing to skip the democratic process is especially damaging where,
like stateside, it is more  of an electoral college election than a
general public mandate anymore.
Speaking only for myself, it seems time to  give voters a clear
incentive to educate themselves about those issues.  fine want to stay
home enough to pay a fine for that right?
Kare


On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Todor Fassl wrote:


But why? Why should people who know nothing about the issues vote?
Just repeating your opinion that they should vote is no answer.

It's like saying you should get brain surgery even if you're not sure
you have something wrong with your brain. Just sign yourself up for
random medical treatments, who knows, some of them might even help.

Instead of picking someone at random, if you haven't studied the
issues, you should STAY HOME!


repeating that they should vote is NO answer.





On 11/08/2016 05:19 PM, Robin wrote:

 I Disagree
 Voting is a Right & EveryOne should Vote
 No Matter What iff Eligible
 At 02:26 PM 11/8/2016, you wrote:
>  I don't think people should vote just for the sake of voting. That's
>  how bad guys get elected -- ignorant voters put them in office. If
you
>  havent studied the issues, please stay home.
> > > >  On 11/08/2016 05:50 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >  For our friends in the US,
> >  Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it
> >  that way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty
> >  regardless of your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and
have
> >  your voice heard if you haven’t already.
> >  Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling
> >  place, Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and
Google
> >  also has the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some
credits
> >  to get to your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and
> >  volunteer services as well.
> >  Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available
> >  today to voters.  Keep that “I voted† sticker and Krispy >
>  Cream
> >  will give you a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving
> >  free coffee, and many small businesses are having election day
> >  promotions that include discounts or out right freebies.
> >  Remember that many service men and women have fought and
died
> >  for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make
sure > >  we
> >  take advantage of our most powerful expression of our freedom, our
> >  right to vote.  Now get out there and be safe everyone.
> >  --
>  Todd
> >  --
>  The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>  Visionaries list.
> >  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list,
>  or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>  the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>  itself.
> >  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>  mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
>  Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >  The archives for this list can be searched at:
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>  --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
>  Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
>  an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>  To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>  Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
Todd

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionari

Re: Get out there and vote everyone!

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I don't think there's a legal mandate about calling cells as much as an
economic factor. Afaik, it's much more expensive at the bulk call level.

Scott Granados writes:
> We were always told that there were strict laws about automated dialing 
> processes engaging cell phones.  this is not a function of the do not call 
> list or the laws associated with that.  You’re right about political calls 
> being omitted but this is a different legal area do to the cost factors in 
> receiving unwanted calls and being billed for them.
> 
> Remember up until recently, cell phones were not unlimited.  The user would 
> be charged for incoming calls so as a result we weren’t allowed to call cell 
> phone numbers, full stop, because of the fact it charged the phone user.  So 
> on that basis I’m absolutely certain there were moratoriums on anyone calling 
> cell phones with out permission whether that’s political speech or not.  The 
> first amendment doesn’t apply when the target is injured as a result or in 
> this case charged. This may have changed now that unlimited calling is the 
> norm but as I understand it you must omit the calling of cell phones directly 
> with automated dialers.  Janina is very versed in communication law maybe she 
> can speak to this subject.
>  
> > On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> > 
> > What do you mean, "you're not supposed to" get calls from pollsters on your 
> > mobile phone?  I doubt there is a law that says that, at least not in the 
> > USA. Congress has set up do-not-call lists but they don't apply to 
> > political speech. That would be a violation of the First Amendment.I really 
> > doubt there is anything illegal about a pollster calling mobile phones. 
> > Maybe at one time they didn't do it out of politeness but something like 
> > that is not sustainable. These pollsters aren't doing this for fun, after 
> > all. Once one of them starts calling mobile phones, the others would have 
> > to go along in order to keep up.
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/10/2016 09:39 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >> You’re not supposed to, that’s very interesting.  I’ve rolled out dialers 
> >> before and you’re supposed to prevent dialing blocks of DIDs assigned to 
> >> cell carriers.
> >> 
> >>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Todor Fassl  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I get calls from pollsters all the time on my cell phone.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On 11/10/2016 07:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>  You knew the signs were out there, it was a Brexit type event all over 
>  again.  If you listened to the elite media and ruling class there was no 
>  way, if you listened to the actual people you knew it was going to 
>  happen.
>  
>  Polling is dead.  There’s a technological and believe it or not on topic 
>  reason for it as well.  Apple and Google have us all cutting the cord 
>  and living with cell phones now.  Pollsters can’t call cell phones.  The 
>  fewer hard lines there are left out there the fewer people to sample.
>  
> > On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> > 
> > Most people I know are still in a state of shock.  I didn't think this 
> > would happen in a million years.  Hilary wasn't a good candidate, but 
> > still ...
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> >> On Nov 10, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Simon Fogarty  
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Bummer dudes and dudettes!
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016 12:50 AM
> >> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> >> Subject: Get out there and vote everyone!
> >> 
> >> For our friends in the US,
> >>Totally apolitical here and please please let’s keep it that 
> >> way.  Get out there and vote today, do your civic duty regardless of 
> >> your party / candidate / beliefs just get out and have your voice 
> >> heard if you haven’t already.
> >>Uber is offering a $20 credit for a trip to your polling place, 
> >> Lyft has a similar deal with up to $45 in credits, and Google also has 
> >> the means to arrange a ride for you and provide some credits to get to 
> >> your closest polls.  the parties are offering rides and volunteer 
> >> services as well.
> >>Also, make sure you take advantage of the deals available today 
> >> to voters.  Keep that “I voted” sticker and Krispy Cream will give you 
> >> a free donut, McDonalds and Seven Eleven are giving free coffee, and 
> >> many small businesses are having election day promotions that include 
> >> discounts or out right freebies.
> >>Remember that many service men and women have fought and died 
> >> for your right to vote so let’s not let them down and make sure we 
> >> take advantage of our most powerful exp