Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

ality and sometimes it sounds 
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>> like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're 
> >>>>>>> connected to
> >>>>>>> or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
> >>>>>>> sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it 
> >>>>>>> doesn't
> >>>>>>> seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> CB
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity 
> >>>>>>>> Investments where we built a custom video and audio conferencing 
> >>>>>>>> system.  It replaced the one Verizon offers.  We actually took great 
> >>>>>>>> care to have good quality audio along with fantastic video.  We 
> >>>>>>>> supported from standard definition video up to 4K 30 FPS non drop 
> >>>>>>>> and on the audio side everything was G722 wide band so you’d get 
> >>>>>>>> audio quality better than Skype calls in most settings.  On the 
> >>>>>>>> phone side we supported G711 and G722 which means you either got 
> >>>>>>>> something as good as a standard phone call or if your phone 
> >>>>>>>> supported it like many cell phones do we would go wide band so again 
> >>>>>>>> you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
> >>>>>>>>  The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only 
> >>>>>>>> conferencing service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes 
> >>>>>>>> of business per week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and 
> >>>>>>>> were able to maintain crisp audio so the other guys can if they want 
> >>>>>>>> to expend the effort and use the extra bandwidth.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
> >>>>>>>>> <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more 
> >>>>>>>>> you have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if 
> >>>>>>>>> sighted people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably 
> >>>>>>>>> do?!
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Cait
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
> >>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in 
> >>>>>>>>>> number instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending 
> >>>>>>>>>> without video at all.
> >>>>>>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the 
> >>>>>>>>>> quality is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for 
> >>>>>>>>>> phone alone is there.
> >>>>>>>>>> Karen
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, 
> >>>>>>>>>>> JUST THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo 
> >>>>>>>>>>> doesn’t read during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

>>>>>> than Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we supported 
>>>>>>>> G711 and G722 which means you either got something as good as a 
>>>>>>>> standard phone call or if your phone supported it like many cell 
>>>>>>>> phones do we would go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp 
>>>>>>>> full audio.
>>>>>>>>The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only 
>>>>>>>> conferencing service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes 
>>>>>>>> of business per week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and 
>>>>>>>> were able to maintain crisp audio so the other guys can if they want 
>>>>>>>> to expend the effort and use the extra bandwidth.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>>>>>>>> <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you 
>>>>>>>>> have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted 
>>>>>>>>> people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Cait
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
>>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in 
>>>>>>>>>> number instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without 
>>>>>>>>>> video at all.
>>>>>>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the 
>>>>>>>>>> quality is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for 
>>>>>>>>>> phone alone is there.
>>>>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, 
>>>>>>>>>>> JUST THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo 
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn’t read during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big 
>>>>>>>>>>>> news here is that they have an accessibility website 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), 
>>>>>>>>>>>> an email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> major platforms.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> read on their website and in the article that pointed me to them 
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the first place. However, things look good. If you're in need 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of this kine of service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you thought of the experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was already brought up over there.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

andard 
> >>> so Android devices can talk to iPhones and both can talk to Microsoft 
> >>> phones if the wide band calling is enabled on all accounts involved and 
> >>> all devices are on the appropriate networks for HD calling.
> >>> 
> >>> Let me know if I can expand on anything further or if I’ve just confused 
> >>> things.  Glad to provide more info if needed.
> >>> 
> >>> Thank you
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 11:13 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Chris:
> >>>> 
> >>>> The old computer adage, "gigo" applies in answer to your question.
> >>>> 
> >>>> There are multiple codecs that can be used for telephony. Even the major
> >>>> carriers have started using a higher quality codec when the equipment
> >>>> supports it. You'll see this advertised as "HD Voice," by T-Mobile, for
> >>>> instance.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The truth is that even "HD Voice" isn't the best available to be used,
> >>>> but both ends of the call have to support the same codec (or better).
> >>>> Else, down sampling and the resulting poorer quality results.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Like the adage says: garbage in, garbage out. And conversley, quality in
> >>>> and maybe quality out.
> >>>> 
> >>>> hth
> >>>> 
> >>>> Janina
> >>>> 
> >>>> 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >>>>> I had always wondered what it was when I would call some people on my 
> >>>>> iPhone
> >>>>> 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just OK. So 
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 6 on 
> >>>>> Verizon and
> >>>>> sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and sometimes it sounds just
> >>>>> like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're 
> >>>>> connected to
> >>>>> or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
> >>>>> sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it 
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>> seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> CB
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >>>>>> Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments 
> >>>>>> where we built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It 
> >>>>>> replaced the one Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have 
> >>>>>> good quality audio along with fantastic video.  We supported from 
> >>>>>> standard definition video up to 4K 30 FPS non drop and on the audio 
> >>>>>> side everything was G722 wide band so you’d get audio quality better 
> >>>>>> than Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we supported 
> >>>>>> G711 and G722 which means you either got something as good as a 
> >>>>>> standard phone call or if your phone supported it like many cell 
> >>>>>> phones do we would go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp 
> >>>>>> full audio.
> >>>>>>The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only 
> >>>>>> conferencing service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes 
> >>>>>> of business per week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and 
> >>>>>> were able to maintain crisp audio so the other guys can if they want 
> >>>>>> to expend the effort and use the extra bandwidth.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
> >>>>>>> <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you 
> >>>>>>> have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted 
> >>>>>>> people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
> >

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

 
>>>> The old computer adage, "gigo" applies in answer to your question.
>>>> 
>>>> There are multiple codecs that can be used for telephony. Even the major
>>>> carriers have started using a higher quality codec when the equipment
>>>> supports it. You'll see this advertised as "HD Voice," by T-Mobile, for
>>>> instance.
>>>> 
>>>> The truth is that even "HD Voice" isn't the best available to be used,
>>>> but both ends of the call have to support the same codec (or better).
>>>> Else, down sampling and the resulting poorer quality results.
>>>> 
>>>> Like the adage says: garbage in, garbage out. And conversley, quality in
>>>> and maybe quality out.
>>>> 
>>>> hth
>>>> 
>>>> Janina
>>>> 
>>>> 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries writes:
>>>>> I had always wondered what it was when I would call some people on my 
>>>>> iPhone
>>>>> 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just OK. So 
>>>>> what
>>>>> triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 6 on Verizon 
>>>>> and
>>>>> sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and sometimes it sounds just
>>>>> like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're connected 
>>>>> to
>>>>> or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
>>>>> sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it doesn't
>>>>> seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> CB
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>>> Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments 
>>>>>> where we built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It 
>>>>>> replaced the one Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have 
>>>>>> good quality audio along with fantastic video.  We supported from 
>>>>>> standard definition video up to 4K 30 FPS non drop and on the audio side 
>>>>>> everything was G722 wide band so you’d get audio quality better than 
>>>>>> Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we supported G711 and 
>>>>>> G722 which means you either got something as good as a standard phone 
>>>>>> call or if your phone supported it like many cell phones do we would go 
>>>>>> wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
>>>>>>  The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
>>>>>> service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per 
>>>>>> week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to 
>>>>>> maintain crisp audio so the other guys can if they want to expend the 
>>>>>> effort and use the extra bandwidth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>>>>>> <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you 
>>>>>>> have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted 
>>>>>>> people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cait
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in 
>>>>>>>> number instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without 
>>>>>>>> video at all.
>>>>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the 
>>>>>>>> quality is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for 
>>>>>>>> phone alone is there.
>>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, 
>>>>>>>>> JUST THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE availab

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Cara Quinn]

!
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com <http://looktel.com/>
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn 
> <http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn>
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>>> covering all the major platforms.
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service 
>>> and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
>>> 
>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>> already brought up over there.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[E.T.]

Simon,
   You were heard to say, "h and besides this post is bloody ridiculous 
and stupid to boot."


   I cannot help but wonder why you are so hard on yourself. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/21/2017 3:12 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

h and besides this post is bloody ridiculous and stupid to boot


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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Do you just email the list to bitch about life in your mind?

 There are starving kids in Africa and war in the middle east and all yor 
worried about is your own thoughts in email lists,

Pull your head from yor ass and smell the flowers.

 And drop the f bomb from these posts as it's not required.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 1:21 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

then how did an online fan fic make a fucking billion dollars?
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  
> I’m well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier 
> status and the transmission and distribution.

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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

So hang on,

Your complaining that we may forward things against your wishes to others,

 Now you go and forward material from the internet to this list and I'mm going 
to guess that you did not get the original publisher or authors authorisation 
to forward this material 
So who then is doing illegal email forwarding?

Oh and besides this post is bloody ridiculous and stupid to boot

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 1:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was originally 
fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of gray. it was 
first online.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.

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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Scott I think this is an alternate fact according to Donnie!

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 1:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.

You have no property rights when you join any list, you need to read that fine 
print more.  Also you would have to have copyright protections in place to 
protect your content and even then normal academic principles apply where you 
can site someone and point to it.

Sorry but you’re dead wrong and I as well as several of the other people 
telling you do this for a living so you definitely need to reevaluate that 
position.

Familiarize yourself with the telecommunications act of 1996 for starters.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:32 AM, alia robinson <ali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
> propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
> someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and say 
> it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is frankly 
> ridiculous!
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf <e...@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
>> the person who received it.
> 
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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

I've only got one more thing to say about this, and that is 
Before we start ripping someone a new A
 Someone should think about the reaction this post will have on the otters.

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 1:10 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

Nobody has to forward anything, what you write in any mailing list is archived 
and available with a simple google search.  Don’t say anything on list you 
wouldn’t say in public, that’s the moral of the story.  THere’s absolutely no 
expectation of privacy when it comes to the Internet and public forums.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 7:17 AM, alia robinson <ali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
> permission! really not cool.
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
>> Podcast <mich...@yourownpay.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Cara:
>> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
>> supp...@zoom.us
> 
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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Ok, sure,




-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 12:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

this is the last I’ll say on this list about this issue; all I’m saying is ask! 
this is an article giving propper credit to  -Kelly Talcott think about it 
won’t you!!! 

>From the perspective of the person posting on a forum: I’m sure many people 
>assume that posting on a public forum means their posts become part of the 
>public domain. If, however, you consider posting a form of publication, then 
>that’s not necessarily the case. One reasonable view would be to consider the 
>act of posting as granting an implied license from the author to the forum to 
>use the material in the post for the purposes of the forum. Let’s use the 
>example of a poem, posted on a poetry-focused forum that has no language in 
>its terms of service about what happens to poems posted on the forum. If I 
>copy that poem and publish it in a book with other poems, the author would 
>arguably have a claim against me.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf <e...@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:
> 
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of the 
> person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward anything 
> that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to use it the 
> only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply not to post 
> them.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik.
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
> On April 21, 2017 7:18:51 AM alia robinson <ali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
>> permission! really not cool.
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
>>> Podcast <mich...@yourownpay.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cara:
>>> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
>>> supp...@zoom.us
>> 
>> --
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> 
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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

No, it becomes the property of the list and if a message is regarding issues 
with a productthen the best thing we can do is forward it or the views from 
members of the list to the developers or company behind said product to alert 
them to the related issues,

 Note this list is not a police state it is more like a democracy and we are 
all members of it.

 If your worried about what you say getting out to the world then I'd suggest 
stop using email.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Saturday, 22 April 2017 12:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and say 
it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is frankly 
ridiculous!
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf <e...@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:
> 
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of the 
> person who received it.

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I had always wondered what it was when I would call some people on my 
> > > > iPhone
> > > > 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just OK. So 
> > > > what
> > > > triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 6 on 
> > > > Verizon and
> > > > sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and sometimes it sounds just
> > > > like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're 
> > > > connected to
> > > > or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
> > > > sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it 
> > > > doesn't
> > > > seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
> > > > 
> > > > CB
> > > > 
> > > > On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > > > > Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments 
> > > > > where we built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It 
> > > > > replaced the one Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have 
> > > > > good quality audio along with fantastic video.  We supported from 
> > > > > standard definition video up to 4K 30 FPS non drop and on the audio 
> > > > > side everything was G722 wide band so you’d get audio quality better 
> > > > > than Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we supported 
> > > > > G711 and G722 which means you either got something as good as a 
> > > > > standard phone call or if your phone supported it like many cell 
> > > > > phones do we would go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp 
> > > > > full audio.
> > > > >   The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only 
> > > > > conferencing service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes 
> > > > > of business per week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and 
> > > > > were able to maintain crisp audio so the other guys can if they want 
> > > > > to expend the effort and use the extra bandwidth.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
> > > > > > <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more 
> > > > > > you have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if 
> > > > > > sighted people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably 
> > > > > > do?!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Cait
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
> > > > > > > <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in 
> > > > > > > number instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending 
> > > > > > > without video at all.
> > > > > > > Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the 
> > > > > > > quality is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door 
> > > > > > > for phone alone is there.
> > > > > > > Karen
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY 
> > > > > > > > ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the 
> > > > > > > > sited user, vo doesn’t read during a conference, but it’s not a 
> > > > > > > > deal breaker.
> > > > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> 
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing 
> > > > > > > > > service was discovered recently: www.zoom.us 
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they have an 
> > > > > > > > > accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
> > > > > > > > > <https://z

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, indeed. Thought, I suspect it was going to be a difficult
conversation regardless. After all, you can't hide pregnancy--unless
there's some kind of abortive event (of which many are natural and
spontaneous).

In away this may have made things a tad easier. After all, the whole
family would be feeling violated by the big data intrusion into their
family affairs. This information was sold commercially, to Target if
memory serves.

Janina

Scott Granados writes:
> Wow this is so well stated.
> 
> I also was not familiar with that Facebook case.  That’s very eye opening.  
> Can you imagine how that conversation with the parents went?
> 
> Sometimes I’m glad I did not grow up in the total digital age because it’s so 
> hard to get away with anything.:). Besides, the hacking and phone phreaking 
> possibilities were so much more fun when switching was crossbar and hybrid 
> digital and mechanical.  Ah I’m getting old.  Thank goodness my parents 
> couldn’t track me.  I’d have never been able to run away and follow the 
> Grateful Dead when I was 15 and get away with it as an example.
> 
> 
> > On Apr 21, 2017, at 11:26 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > The simple fact that people do, for whatever reason, engage in plagerism
> > is not evidence that you (or they) own anything.
> > 
> > 
> > The next time you join a list, or a service like Face Book, don't just
> > click the "I Agree" box, but read the terms first. You'll find, for
> > example, that Face Book owns anything you post there. You gave them
> > ownership of whatever you post on Face Book when you clicked "I Agree."
> > 
> > Which isn't to say that Face Book owns the poetry of Robert Frost,
> > should you post some poetry of his and sign your name to it. But, it
> > certainly doesn't make it yours, either. You'll never make a dime on it,
> > though Face Book just might make more than a dime on it, even though you
> > plagerized. For one thing you'd be likely to end up on an index of
> > plagerists, and that fact alone could be of value.
> > 
> > There's a famous incident, recounted in the recent book "Future Crimes,"
> > where a young girl in Minneapolis shared her fears and concerns with her
> > friends on her
> > Face Book page. Most particularly, she did not tell her family that she
> > was pregnanet. While she was screwing up the courage to tell them, their
> > postal mailbox began recieving various flyers offering coupons and
> > gqapspecial deals for new mothers--that's how they found out.
> > 
> > 
> > You think this service is free? There's nothing free. You and I are the
> > products the Googles and Face Books of the world sell for money. And, if
> > you check their stock price, you'll find they're making a pile of money
> > by mining your and my data from these supposedly free services.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > alia robinson writes:
> >> read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
> >> publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was 
> >> originally fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades 
> >> of gray. it was first online.
> >>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  
> >>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.
> >> 
> >> --
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> >> Visionaries list.
> >> 
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> >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >> 
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> >> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >> 
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> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
> > Email:  jan...@rednote.net
> > 
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org
> > 
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > 
> > --
> > The following information is important 

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

At one point I thought it would useful to have a FAQ for MacVisionaries 
as sometimes the questions rhyme a lot with earlier discussions. Later I 
was reading a discussion thread on here and thought I'd try to google 
around and see if I could find an answer. Of course my search results 
just turned up a bunch of links back to the messages on this list. Nice 
and circular. So everything here is public and, in a way, we're building 
a FAQ for Mac and iOS users, even if they aren't contributing members of 
the list. That also means the usual netiquette applies. Don't say 
anything you wouldn't want Google to index and turn up with your name on 
it. I consider anything I post on here as public broadcast.


CB

On 4/21/17 11:26 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:

The simple fact that people do, for whatever reason, engage in plagerism
is not evidence that you (or they) own anything.


The next time you join a list, or a service like Face Book, don't just
click the "I Agree" box, but read the terms first. You'll find, for
example, that Face Book owns anything you post there. You gave them
ownership of whatever you post on Face Book when you clicked "I Agree."

Which isn't to say that Face Book owns the poetry of Robert Frost,
should you post some poetry of his and sign your name to it. But, it
certainly doesn't make it yours, either. You'll never make a dime on it,
though Face Book just might make more than a dime on it, even though you
plagerized. For one thing you'd be likely to end up on an index of
plagerists, and that fact alone could be of value.

There's a famous incident, recounted in the recent book "Future Crimes,"
where a young girl in Minneapolis shared her fears and concerns with her
friends on her
Face Book page. Most particularly, she did not tell her family that she
was pregnanet. While she was screwing up the courage to tell them, their
postal mailbox began recieving various flyers offering coupons and
gqapspecial deals for new mothers--that's how they found out.


You think this service is free? There's nothing free. You and I are the
products the Googles and Face Books of the world sell for money. And, if
you check their stock price, you'll find they're making a pile of money
by mining your and my data from these supposedly free services.

Best,

Janina



alia robinson writes:

read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was originally 
fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of gray. it was 
first online.

On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:

Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Privacy etc -was- Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Cara Quinn]

Absolutely Janina, if the service is free then you are the product.

Cheers!

Cara
---
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On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:26 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

The simple fact that people do, for whatever reason, engage in plagerism
is not evidence that you (or they) own anything.


The next time you join a list, or a service like Face Book, don't just
click the "I Agree" box, but read the terms first. You'll find, for
example, that Face Book owns anything you post there. You gave them
ownership of whatever you post on Face Book when you clicked "I Agree."

Which isn't to say that Face Book owns the poetry of Robert Frost,
should you post some poetry of his and sign your name to it. But, it
certainly doesn't make it yours, either. You'll never make a dime on it,
though Face Book just might make more than a dime on it, even though you
plagerized. For one thing you'd be likely to end up on an index of
plagerists, and that fact alone could be of value.

There's a famous incident, recounted in the recent book "Future Crimes,"
where a young girl in Minneapolis shared her fears and concerns with her
friends on her
Face Book page. Most particularly, she did not tell her family that she
was pregnanet. While she was screwing up the courage to tell them, their
postal mailbox began recieving various flyers offering coupons and
gqapspecial deals for new mothers--that's how they found out.


You think this service is free? There's nothing free. You and I are the
products the Googles and Face Books of the world sell for money. And, if
you check their stock price, you'll find they're making a pile of money
by mining your and my data from these supposedly free services.

Best,

Janina



alia robinson writes:
> read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
> publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was 
> originally fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of 
> gray. it was first online.
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.
> 
> -- 
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Email:  jan...@rednote.net

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

t;>> 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just OK. So what
>>>> triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 6 on Verizon 
>>>> and
>>>> sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and sometimes it sounds just
>>>> like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're connected 
>>>> to
>>>> or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
>>>> sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it doesn't
>>>> seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
>>>> 
>>>> CB
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>>> Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments 
>>>>> where we built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It replaced 
>>>>> the one Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have good quality 
>>>>> audio along with fantastic video.  We supported from standard definition 
>>>>> video up to 4K 30 FPS non drop and on the audio side everything was G722 
>>>>> wide band so you’d get audio quality better than Skype calls in most 
>>>>> settings.  On the phone side we supported G711 and G722 which means you 
>>>>> either got something as good as a standard phone call or if your phone 
>>>>> supported it like many cell phones do we would go wide band so again 
>>>>> you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
>>>>>   The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
>>>>> service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per 
>>>>> week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain 
>>>>> crisp audio so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and 
>>>>> use the extra bandwidth.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you 
>>>>>> have on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted 
>>>>>> people think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cait
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>>>>>>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at 
>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality 
>>>>>>> is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone 
>>>>>>> is there.
>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST 
>>>>>>>> THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t 
>>>>>>>> read during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>>>>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news 
>>>>>>>>> here is that they have an accessibility website 
>>>>>>>>> (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an 
>>>>>>>>> email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
>>>>>>>>> commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>>>>>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
>>>>>>>>> major platforms.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read 
>>>>>>>>> on their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the 
>>>>&

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

ould go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per week.  
We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain crisp audio 
so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and use the extra 
bandwidth.



On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait


On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:


I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.

On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered recently: 
www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
website (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address 
(acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall





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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Wow this is so well stated.

I also was not familiar with that Facebook case.  That’s very eye opening.  Can 
you imagine how that conversation with the parents went?

Sometimes I’m glad I did not grow up in the total digital age because it’s so 
hard to get away with anything.:). Besides, the hacking and phone phreaking 
possibilities were so much more fun when switching was crossbar and hybrid 
digital and mechanical.  Ah I’m getting old.  Thank goodness my parents 
couldn’t track me.  I’d have never been able to run away and follow the 
Grateful Dead when I was 15 and get away with it as an example.


> On Apr 21, 2017, at 11:26 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> The simple fact that people do, for whatever reason, engage in plagerism
> is not evidence that you (or they) own anything.
> 
> 
> The next time you join a list, or a service like Face Book, don't just
> click the "I Agree" box, but read the terms first. You'll find, for
> example, that Face Book owns anything you post there. You gave them
> ownership of whatever you post on Face Book when you clicked "I Agree."
> 
> Which isn't to say that Face Book owns the poetry of Robert Frost,
> should you post some poetry of his and sign your name to it. But, it
> certainly doesn't make it yours, either. You'll never make a dime on it,
> though Face Book just might make more than a dime on it, even though you
> plagerized. For one thing you'd be likely to end up on an index of
> plagerists, and that fact alone could be of value.
> 
> There's a famous incident, recounted in the recent book "Future Crimes,"
> where a young girl in Minneapolis shared her fears and concerns with her
> friends on her
> Face Book page. Most particularly, she did not tell her family that she
> was pregnanet. While she was screwing up the courage to tell them, their
> postal mailbox began recieving various flyers offering coupons and
> gqapspecial deals for new mothers--that's how they found out.
> 
> 
> You think this service is free? There's nothing free. You and I are the
> products the Googles and Face Books of the world sell for money. And, if
> you check their stock price, you'll find they're making a pile of money
> by mining your and my data from these supposedly free services.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 
> alia robinson writes:
>> read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
>> publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was 
>> originally fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades 
>> of gray. it was first online.
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>   sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
>   Email:  jan...@rednote.net
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
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> list.
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

all or if your phone supported it 
>>> like many cell phones do we would go wide band so again you’d get that nice 
>>> crisp full audio.
>>> The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
>>> service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per 
>>> week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain 
>>> crisp audio so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and use 
>>> the extra bandwidth.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have 
>>>> on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people 
>>>> think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>>>> 
>>>> Cait
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>>>>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality 
>>>>> is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is 
>>>>> there.
>>>>> Karen
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST 
>>>>>> THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read 
>>>>>> during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news 
>>>>>>> here is that they have an accessibility website 
>>>>>>> (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an 
>>>>>>> email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
>>>>>>> commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>>>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
>>>>>>> major platforms.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read 
>>>>>>> on their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the 
>>>>>>> first place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine 
>>>>>>> of service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>>>>>> already brought up over there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alex Hall
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> You received

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

The simple fact that people do, for whatever reason, engage in plagerism
is not evidence that you (or they) own anything.


The next time you join a list, or a service like Face Book, don't just
click the "I Agree" box, but read the terms first. You'll find, for
example, that Face Book owns anything you post there. You gave them
ownership of whatever you post on Face Book when you clicked "I Agree."

Which isn't to say that Face Book owns the poetry of Robert Frost,
should you post some poetry of his and sign your name to it. But, it
certainly doesn't make it yours, either. You'll never make a dime on it,
though Face Book just might make more than a dime on it, even though you
plagerized. For one thing you'd be likely to end up on an index of
plagerists, and that fact alone could be of value.

There's a famous incident, recounted in the recent book "Future Crimes,"
where a young girl in Minneapolis shared her fears and concerns with her
friends on her
Face Book page. Most particularly, she did not tell her family that she
was pregnanet. While she was screwing up the courage to tell them, their
postal mailbox began recieving various flyers offering coupons and
gqapspecial deals for new mothers--that's how they found out.


You think this service is free? There's nothing free. You and I are the
products the Googles and Face Books of the world sell for money. And, if
you check their stock price, you'll find they're making a pile of money
by mining your and my data from these supposedly free services.

Best,

Janina



alia robinson writes:
> read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
> publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was 
> originally fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of 
> gray. it was first online.
> > On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
Email:  jan...@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people 
>>>> think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>>>> 
>>>> Cait
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>>>>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
>>>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality 
>>>>> is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is 
>>>>> there.
>>>>> Karen
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST 
>>>>>> THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read 
>>>>>> during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news 
>>>>>>> here is that they have an accessibility website 
>>>>>>> (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an 
>>>>>>> email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
>>>>>>> commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>>>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
>>>>>>> major platforms.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read 
>>>>>>> on their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the 
>>>>>>> first place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine 
>>>>>>> of service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>>>>>> already brought up over there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alex Hall
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.c

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Chris:

The old computer adage, "gigo" applies in answer to your question.

There are multiple codecs that can be used for telephony. Even the major
carriers have started using a higher quality codec when the equipment
supports it. You'll see this advertised as "HD Voice," by T-Mobile, for
instance.

The truth is that even "HD Voice" isn't the best available to be used,
but both ends of the call have to support the same codec (or better).
Else, down sampling and the resulting poorer quality results.

Like the adage says: garbage in, garbage out. And conversley, quality in
and maybe quality out.

hth

Janina

'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries writes:
> I had always wondered what it was when I would call some people on my iPhone
> 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just OK. So what
> triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 6 on Verizon and
> sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and sometimes it sounds just
> like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on which tower you're connected to
> or whether you're on LTE or not? A friend of mine is on Android and
> sometimes I get really good quality calls with him as well, so it doesn't
> seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments where 
> > we built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It replaced the one 
> > Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have good quality audio 
> > along with fantastic video.  We supported from standard definition video up 
> > to 4K 30 FPS non drop and on the audio side everything was G722 wide band 
> > so you’d get audio quality better than Skype calls in most settings.  On 
> > the phone side we supported G711 and G722 which means you either got 
> > something as good as a standard phone call or if your phone supported it 
> > like many cell phones do we would go wide band so again you’d get that nice 
> > crisp full audio.
> > The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
> > service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per 
> > week.  We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain 
> > crisp audio so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and use 
> > the extra bandwidth.
> > 
> > 
> > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have 
> > > on the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people 
> > > think the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
> > > 
> > > Cait
> > > 
> > > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> > > > instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at 
> > > > all.
> > > > Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality 
> > > > is sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone 
> > > > is there.
> > > > Karen
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, 
> > > > > JUST THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo 
> > > > > doesn’t read during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
> > > > > > On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
> > > > > > discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big 
> > > > > > news here is that they have an accessibility website 
> > > > > > (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an 
> > > > > > email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
> > > > > > commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
> > > > > > compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
> > > > > > major platforms.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I 
> > > 

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

gt; there.
> >>> Karen
> >>> 
> >>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST 
> >>>> THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read 
> >>>> during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
> >>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
> >>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news 
> >>>>> here is that they have an accessibility website 
> >>>>> (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an 
> >>>>> email address (acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
> >>>>> commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
> >>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the 
> >>>>> major platforms.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read 
> >>>>> on their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the 
> >>>>> first place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine 
> >>>>> of service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
> >>>>> experience.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
> >>>>> already brought up over there.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Alex Hall
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>>>> Visionaries list.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> >>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> >>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
> >>>>> itself.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
> >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> >>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
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> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>>> Visionaries list.
> >>>> 
> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> >>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> The archives 

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

I had always wondered what it was when I would call some people on my 
iPhone 6 and get surprisingly nice audio while other times it was just 
OK. So what triggers the good audio? My wife and I have the same iPhone 
6 on Verizon and sometimes we get that amazing sound quality and 
sometimes it sounds just like a regular cell phone. Does it depend on 
which tower you're connected to or whether you're on LTE or not? A 
friend of mine is on Android and sometimes I get really good quality 
calls with him as well, so it doesn't seem to be an iPhone-specific thing.


CB

On 4/20/17 4:31 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments where we 
built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It replaced the one 
Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have good quality audio along 
with fantastic video.  We supported from standard definition video up to 4K 30 
FPS non drop and on the audio side everything was G722 wide band so you’d get 
audio quality better than Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we 
supported G711 and G722 which means you either got something as good as a 
standard phone call or if your phone supported it like many cell phones do we 
would go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per week.  
We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain crisp audio 
so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and use the extra 
bandwidth.



On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait


On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:


I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.

On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered recently: 
www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
website (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address 
(acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall





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Moderator Note - Public Domain -was- Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Cara Quinn]

Hi All, Firstly good morning! :)

I am writing this before reading the rest of this thread just yet so as to keep 
this note clean in essence and avoid any of the emotional nature of this issue 
so as to keep this policy clear and simple. For now at least. :)

In regard to anything anyone posts here on this list; what you post is your 
responsibility to manage, until you post it. This should go without saying, 
especially in the current times in which we live, but once your post leaves 
your computer, you manage it no longer. So do not post anything you do not want 
anyone and everyone to see, have unlimited access to and / or use as they wish.

This is not to say that we ought not to have consideration or care in how we 
treat others and their posts here but it goes well beyond any kind of list 
management for me or any other list mod to manage such a thing.

If you say it here, you say it everywhere since once a note leaves your 
computer and is posted on a public forum such as this one, it then is in the 
public domain and is available to all.

If you want something copyrighted then you’d better do it before you send it. 
Simple as that.

So this is all I will say on this for now, until I read the rest of this thread 
in a little while today.

I hope this is clear to everyone. Don’t say anything here that you wouldn’t 
want anyone and / or everyone on the web / in the world possibly knowing about.

Have a great day and check back in with y’all soon.

Cheers!

Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

On Apr 21, 2017, at 5:17 AM, alia robinson  wrote:

I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
permission! really not cool.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
> Podcast  wrote:
> 
> Cara:
> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
> supp...@zoom.us

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Just to be clear as well, I’m not objecting to the language anyway, on another 
list I’d probably have hurled back an equal rejoinder but I know the moderators 
don’t like the peppering of messages with strong language so I do my best to 
comply.

Like Erik said I was also only pointing out the state of things so you didn’t 
find yourself saying something and regretting it because you assumed it was 
your property and nobody else had a right to it.

Anyway we can let this stand as is, I think we’ve each made our respective 
points.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:38 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> I have no particular objection to your language here.  I'd like to point out 
> though that people are trying to prevent your misunderstanding from 
> potentially causing you loss or dammage.  There is no call to be mean.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
> On April 21, 2017 9:21:52 AM alia robinson  wrote:
> 
>> then how did an online fan fic make a fucking billion dollars?
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  
>>> I’m well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier 
>>> status and the transmission and distribution.
>> 
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Erik Burggraaf]

I have no particular objection to your language here.  I'd like to point 
out though that people are trying to prevent your misunderstanding from 
potentially causing you loss or dammage.  There is no call to be mean.


Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 21, 2017 9:21:52 AM alia robinson  wrote:


then how did an online fan fic make a fucking billion dollars?

On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:

Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  
I’m well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier 
status and the transmission and distribution.


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 macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

It’s called copyrighting.

And you’ve already proved me right by resulting to profanity.

You know you have an indefensible position, I smell a troll!

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:20 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> then how did an online fan fic make a fucking billion dollars?
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  
>> I’m well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier 
>> status and the transmission and distribution.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

And just to add to Eric’s excellent points, if you do wish to preserve the 
integrity of the message then digitally sign it so that modifications will be 
obvious and will break the digital signature verification.  If you note I sign 
my messages, that just insures that a reader know’s it’s really me and the 
content is unchanged.  I use public key cryptography, specifically gpg, to 
accomplish this which puts an envelope around the message that is impractical 
to crack or modify.  Further more, suppose I wanted to speak to Eric securely 
so it couldn’t be forwarded, I would then encrypt the message removing it from 
the public view and also set a bit which prevents the message from being saved 
or forwarded.  Sort of a self destructing concept for messages that once opened 
allow me to preserve control of the content.  Like wise, I could not set that 
bit and Eric could forward or copy that content but probably wouldn’t if we 
were speaking securely through encrypted means.



> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> I'm not trying to start an argument here and this is the last I'll say, but 
> your understanding of your rights as regards your emails is not correct, and 
> I think it's very important to be clear on this.  It's not about what is nice 
> or fair or polite.  It's about what is.  If you send me an email, control of 
> that email leaves your hands and falls into mine.  If I ask your permission 
> to repost it, that's me going the extra mile to be nice, but the email is now 
> mine and I don't need your permission for anything.  It's not bad or even 
> discurtious to forward an email without permission.  The system gives you 
> credit for the work as long as I leave the content unmodified.
> 
> This is both the strength and the weekness of internet communication.  If you 
> have something to sell or a service to provide or something to say that's 
> particularly special, I can forward it to all my friends who pass it on to 
> their friends and it propogates.  If I want to screw you and I am middlingly 
> clever, I can add or remove content completely altering what you said.  
> Unless my alteration causes you substancial fisical, social, or economic 
> harm, there is not a thing you can do about it.  Neither is there anything I 
> can do about it if some one down the line alters it.  I could put my name on 
> your work.  It's not copy writed.  I could publish your profound thought on 
> my blog as my own, leaving a perminant record of that material as belonging 
> to me, and then the material could be considered copyrighted and my property.
> 
> You could post sensitive information to an email list where people talk about 
> mental illness, child wellfare, intimacy issues or any sensitive topic.  I 
> could take that information and give it to local authorities, your family if 
> I know who they are, or any one I think might be in a position to use it.  
> Your sensitive information litterally becomes my information in this medium.
> 
> This is why it's so important to be clear and why I'm taking so much time to 
> explain it.  If you create something that you do not want in the public 
> domain, never ever post it via email because control of the content transfers 
> to the recipient.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
> On April 21, 2017 8:33:17 AM alia robinson  wrote:
> 
>> that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
>> propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
>> someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and 
>> say it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is frankly 
>> ridiculous!
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
>>> the person who received it.
>> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

then how did an online fan fic make a fucking billion dollars?
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  
> I’m well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier 
> status and the transmission and distribution.

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Yes and it was copy righted, nothing you have written is trade marked or copy 
righted.

Some times people are real rocks!  I don’t understand how you could possibly 
think that just because it’s digital intellectual property law doesn’t apply.  
Copyright and trade mark it otherwise deal with it.

The DMCA and communications act of 1996 will not apply unless you can prove 
copyright and or trademark.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:15 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
> publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was 
> originally fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of 
> gray. it was first online.
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.
> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Erik Burggraaf]

I'm not trying to start an argument here and this is the last I'll say, but 
your understanding of your rights as regards your emails is not correct, 
and I think it's very important to be clear on this.  It's not about what 
is nice or fair or polite.  It's about what is.  If you send me an email, 
control of that email leaves your hands and falls into mine.  If I ask your 
permission to repost it, that's me going the extra mile to be nice, but the 
email is now mine and I don't need your permission for anything.  It's not 
bad or even discurtious to forward an email without permission.  The system 
gives you credit for the work as long as I leave the content unmodified.


This is both the strength and the weekness of internet communication.  If 
you have something to sell or a service to provide or something to say 
that's particularly special, I can forward it to all my friends who pass it 
on to their friends and it propogates.  If I want to screw you and I am 
middlingly clever, I can add or remove content completely altering what you 
said.  Unless my alteration causes you substancial fisical, social, or 
economic harm, there is not a thing you can do about it.  Neither is there 
anything I can do about it if some one down the line alters it.  I could 
put my name on your work.  It's not copy writed.  I could publish your 
profound thought on my blog as my own, leaving a perminant record of that 
material as belonging to me, and then the material could be considered 
copyrighted and my property.


You could post sensitive information to an email list where people talk 
about mental illness, child wellfare, intimacy issues or any sensitive 
topic.  I could take that information and give it to local authorities, 
your family if I know who they are, or any one I think might be in a 
position to use it.  Your sensitive information litterally becomes my 
information in this medium.


This is why it's so important to be clear and why I'm taking so much time 
to explain it.  If you create something that you do not want in the public 
domain, never ever post it via email because control of the content 
transfers to the recipient.


Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 21, 2017 8:33:17 AM alia robinson  wrote:

that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and 
say it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is 
frankly ridiculous!

On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:

Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
the person who received it.


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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Doesn’t matter what view you have I’m giving you the legal precedent here.  I’m 
well familiar with digital publishing laws as well as common carrier status and 
the transmission and distribution.

Your argument has no legal standing.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:56 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> this is the last I’ll say on this list about this issue; all I’m saying is 
> ask! this is an article giving propper credit to  -Kelly Talcott think about 
> it won’t you!!!
> 
> From the perspective of the person posting on a forum: I’m sure many people 
> assume that posting on a public forum means their posts become part of the 
> public domain. If, however, you consider posting a form of publication, then 
> that’s not necessarily the case. One reasonable view would be to consider the 
> act of posting as granting an implied license from the author to the forum to 
> use the material in the post for the purposes of the forum. Let’s use the 
> example of a poem, posted on a poetry-focused forum that has no language in 
> its terms of service about what happens to poems posted on the forum. If I 
> copy that poem and publish it in a book with other poems, the author would 
> arguably have a claim against me.
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>> 
>> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
>> the person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
>> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward 
>> anything that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to 
>> use it the only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply not 
>> to post them.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Erik.
>> 
>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>> 
>> 
>> On April 21, 2017 7:18:51 AM alia robinson  wrote:
>> 
>>> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
>>> permission! really not cool.
 On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
 Podcast  wrote:
 
 Cara:
 I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
 supp...@zoom.us
>>> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

You don’t want it reposted, don’t write it, it’s that simple.  Otherwise it’s 
fair game especially on list.  It’s not like I intercepted and decrypted a 
secure email you sent, you posted it to a public forum, you might as well have 
printed it out and stuck it up on the peg board at the local grocery store next 
to the business cards.  Anyone can copy, forward, distribute, repackage, site 
and use what you write because it’s non copyrighted and in public view.  That 
simple.


> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:37 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> it’s simple netiquite not to repost something someone else wrote without 
> asking. come on people!
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>> 
>> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
>> the person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
>> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward 
>> anything that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to 
>> use it the only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply not 
>> to post them.
> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

read the article I sent. you can’t take a poem someone posts to a list and 
publish it as your own! if you could then that stupid book that was originally 
fanfic for twilight couldn’t have been published into 50 shades of gray. it was 
first online.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Absolutely un true both in a legal and practical matter.

You have no property rights when you join any list, you need to read that fine 
print more.  Also you would have to have copyright protections in place to 
protect your content and even then normal academic principles apply where you 
can site someone and point to it.

Sorry but you’re dead wrong and I as well as several of the other people 
telling you do this for a living so you definitely need to reevaluate that 
position.

Familiarize yourself with the telecommunications act of 1996 for starters.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:32 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
> propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
> someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and say 
> it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is frankly 
> ridiculous!
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>> 
>> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
>> the person who received it.
> 
> --
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> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Nobody has to forward anything, what you write in any mailing list is archived 
and available with a simple google search.  Don’t say anything on list you 
wouldn’t say in public, that’s the moral of the story.  THere’s absolutely no 
expectation of privacy when it comes to the Internet and public forums.

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 7:17 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
> permission! really not cool.
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
>> Podcast  wrote:
>> 
>> Cara:
>> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
>> supp...@zoom.us
> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

this is the last I’ll say on this list about this issue; all I’m saying is ask! 
this is an article giving propper credit to  -Kelly Talcott think about it 
won’t you!!! 

>From the perspective of the person posting on a forum: I’m sure many people 
>assume that posting on a public forum means their posts become part of the 
>public domain. If, however, you consider posting a form of publication, then 
>that’s not necessarily the case. One reasonable view would be to consider the 
>act of posting as granting an implied license from the author to the forum to 
>use the material in the post for the purposes of the forum. Let’s use the 
>example of a poem, posted on a poetry-focused forum that has no language in 
>its terms of service about what happens to poems posted on the forum. If I 
>copy that poem and publish it in a book with other poems, the author would 
>arguably have a claim against me.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of the 
> person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward anything 
> that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to use it the 
> only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply not to post 
> them.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik.
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
> On April 21, 2017 7:18:51 AM alia robinson  wrote:
> 
>> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
>> permission! really not cool.
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
>>> Podcast  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cara:
>>> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
>>> supp...@zoom.us
>> 
>> --
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

it’s simple netiquite not to repost something someone else wrote without 
asking. come on people!
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of the 
> person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward anything 
> that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to use it the 
> only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply not to post 
> them.

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

that is not true at all. if I am on a list sharing my thoughts it is my 
propperty. my writing. no one has the right to forward that. in your view 
someone could write something on a list. I could snag it and rpost it and say 
it’s mine, since in your words it becomes “my propperty’ that is frankly 
ridiculous!
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of the 
> person who received it.

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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Oriol Gómez]

Could not agree more. :)

On 4/21/17, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of
> the person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly
> archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward
> anything that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to
>
> use it the only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply
> not to post them.
>
> Best,
>
> Erik.
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
>
> On April 21, 2017 7:18:51 AM alia robinson  wrote:
>
>> I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my
>>
>> permission! really not cool.
>>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay
>>> Podcast  wrote:
>>>
>>> Cara:
>>> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
>>> supp...@zoom.us
>>
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> if
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
>>
>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
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>> at:
>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn -
>>
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>>
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Erik Burggraaf]

Once you send a message, it becomes the public domain and the property of 
the person who received it. All of the messages for this list are publicly 
archived for anyone to read with a search engine. Anyone can forward 
anything that they think is valuable to someone they think might be able to 
use it the only way to keep control of your ideas and thoughts is simply 
not to post them.


Best,

Erik.

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 21, 2017 7:18:51 AM alia robinson  wrote:

I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
permission! really not cool.
On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
Podcast  wrote:


Cara:
I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
supp...@zoom.us


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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[alia robinson]

I hope no one is forwarding messages I send to this or any list without my 
permission! really not cool.
> On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay 
> Podcast  wrote:
> 
> Cara:
> I’ve forwarded this message on to zoom.
> supp...@zoom.us

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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

We also use zoom for our distance students to video conference into classes  
and we’ve had no issues thus far with this setup.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 8:27 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

With the weekly apple conference that I host, we all use the internet audio 
from the app, and the sound is great.  It’s usually about 7 to 10 of us.
On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness 
<caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com<mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait


On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
<klewel...@shellworld.net<mailto:klewel...@shellworld.net>> wrote:

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:


I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.

On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall 
<mehg...@icloud.com<mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote:

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
recently: www.zoom.us<http://www.zoom.us/> <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news 
here is that they have an accessibility website 
(https://zoom.us/accessibility<https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email 
address (acc...@zoom.us<mailto:acc...@zoom.us> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a 
commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim compatibility with 
VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall





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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Kate,

 I'm the only blind person in a team of 13 and my colleagues use zoom without 
issue and from the use I've given it both sound and video quality were fine, 
the video I was told was fine by a sighted colleague 
The sound was great over both wifi and mobile data on my phone and iPad.

I have one colleague who uses zoom for desktop assistance for customers and 
they don't appear to have issues 


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Caitlyn Furness
Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 8:15 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>>> covering all the major platforms.
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service 
>>> and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
>>> 
>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>> already brought up over there.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Zoom will also allow for screen or desktop sharing for the users if need be 
however as usual  not overly accessible to us the screen reading users.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 4:25 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:

> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is 
>> that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>> covering all the major platforms.
>>
>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. 
>> However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you 
>> try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
>>
>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>> already brought up over there.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
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>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
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> --
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> list.
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-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 

RE: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Alex,

Yeah zooms great,

We have been using it at work for a good 18 months if not longer,

I can honestly say it’s a very usable tool on the IOS platform and windows but 
I haven’t tried it on mac os,
 But I’ll give it a go over the weekend

Very easy to use as well as configurable

Cheers

Simon F

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2017 10:06 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
recently: www.zoom.us<http://www.zoom.us>. The big news here is that they have 
an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility), an email address 
(acc...@zoom.us<mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their 
product accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and 
NVDA, covering all the major platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall




--
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

You know I don’t even think the consumer issue is as deep as you say.  I don’t 
think most people care not because of anything other than most are totally 
unaware of what’s going on around them and sort of fall to the lowest common 
denominator.  For example, I used to work as a recording engineer in a previous 
career.  The studio I primarily worked in had a very nice monitoring 
environment with very high end speakers and signal path etc.  However, when we 
did our final mixes we not only used the high end in room monitors but we’d 
bring in and attach these real cheesy Radio Shack Minimus 7 garbage speakers 
that were something like $100 per pair.  We’d get the mix to sound good on 
these because 99% of the consuming public had crap quality playback equipment 
like the cheese ball book shelf systems etc.  Another thing we did was use a 
low power stereo FM transmitter and sit in a car listening to the recording on 
the in car audio and then call in to the control room to have a guy left behind 
make the changes.  This way we mixed to where most people listen to music, in 
their cars commuting.  The point is I don’t think the majority of people care 
about sound quality.  Your example of MP3 is a great one.  I understand the 
need for heavy compression and data games at first when memory was a premium 
but now that storage is approaching 0 in cost that compression should in my 
opinion go away.  With the storage and bandwidth available ubiquitously now 
there’s no reason for lossy compression.  But I’m in the minority because I 
care about my sound quality.  Most do not.


> On Apr 20, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> well, given there is no more uniformity  in appreciating sound then there is  
> a uniform sighted verses blind people  concept at all, I would say certainly 
> some do.
> What tends to happen with consumers in general is that they think it is 
> supposed to be that bad  because they hear it everywhere.  MP3 content can be 
> the same, with a desire for better sound feeding  the return of lp records.
> Companies and individuals who take their communication seriously either use 
> different services, instant teleconference for example, or run the sound 
> through a proper filter.
> Not everyone calls in on the same sort of device, and I have yet to be at a 
> zoom event where the presenter tried taking questions, or doing more than the 
> captive audience thing.
> Still this has nothing to do with the nonexistent two sides of a coin concept 
> of  sight or its absence.
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
> 
>> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
>> the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think 
>> the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
>>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
>>> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is 
>>> there.
>>> Karen
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST 
>>>> THAT SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read 
>>>> during a conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>>>>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>>>>> covering all the major platforms.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of 
>>>>> service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
>>>>> experie

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Michael Babcock, Host of the Your Own Pay Podcast]

wrong! lol!
> 
> Firstly, in scheduling a meeting on the Mac, choosing a date causes VO to get 
> stuck in the date area.
> 
> Once I figured out that I needed to interact with the date again, I was not 
> able to hear which field I was editing with up and down arrows. More 
> accurately, I can hear the items which are changing but once I have selected 
> an item and use the left or right arrows to move to the next item, no time or 
> date elements are announced until I start using up or down arrows to edit 
> them.
> 
> So I basically need to just guess at which time or date element I am editing 
> at any given moment.
> 
> this is further complicated by the fact that once I am done editing the time 
> and date, Voiceover still seems to be stuck in the date area and it is only 
> by luck that I am able to get out of this area and not change anything I have 
> just set.
> 
> Once I get through that horror show, then I need to be careful when moving 
> through the rest of the scheduling window so as not to accidentally get 
> caught in the date area again.
> 
> So finally, once I have scheduled the meeting successfully, I then go to my 
> meetings tab and am greeted with a grid of unknown cells which I then need to 
> interact with to see which contains my scheduled meeting. Once I do that, 
> there is no obvious way to add participants to it.
> 
> If I click on the Contacts tab to access my company contacts I find a really 
> funky table that seems to cause Voiceover to keep jumping in the list of 
> people as if the list is constantly refreshing.
> 
> Once I am able to select a person, I am placed into what looks like a chat 
> window and again, Voiceover gets stuck in this window. I.E. I can press 
> Escape to get out of the chat window but as soon as Voiceover moves out of 
> the window its focus is immediately brought back into the chat window again.
> 
> This insanity also sometimes happens when I am just moving through the table 
> trying to locate a person. I.E. I will be looking for someone and suddenly I 
> will just end up in a chat window with a random person I am passing by in the 
> constantly refreshing list of contacts.
> 
> I am assuming this list keeps refreshing to keep up with coworkers statuses 
> and such but for God’s sake, there needs to be a way to turn this off. lol!
> 
> Needless to say this is all just hellishly annoying to say the least when I 
> just want / need to get work done. So I am really curious at what others’ are 
> doing to make this app usable.
> 
> I have not even gotten into the squirreliness on the iOS client or the window 
> juggling I seem to need to do when hosting a live meeting or presentation on 
> the Mac where I need to do screen sharing. It’s all just a bit much for me. 
> :) -And certainly is not ready to be called accessible at a corporate level 
> in my opinion.
> 
> So for me personally, calling this accessible is really kind of a stretch. 
> It’s sort of usable but not what I would consider accessible or at all 
> enjoyable. :)
> 
> Just my opinion of course and as I say, I am more than excited to hear 
> others’ feedback if it can help me tame this beastie! lol!
> 
> thanks bunches All and do have a lovely evening / morning / day, wherever you 
> may be on this little blue-green ball of ours.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), an

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Kliphton Miller]

of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com 
>>> <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/><http://www.zoom.us/ 
>>> <http://www.zoom.us/>>. The big news here is that they have an 
>>> accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility> <https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us><mailto:acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>>), 
>>> and a commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
>>> platforms.
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service 
>>> and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
>>> 
>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>> already brought up over there.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Car

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Dan Eickmeier]

Cara, is this zoom.us thing, a web, browser based thing?  Or is it an app?  
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote:
> 
> Karen and All,
> 
> I have also been using Zoom with a corporate account pretty much every day 
> for about a year now but unlike everyone else posting here so far, I have 
> encountered a number of really bothersome accessibility issues.
> 
> So I am wondering if you or someone else in this thread may be able to tell 
> me what the heck I am doing wrong! lol!
> 
> Firstly, in scheduling a meeting on the Mac, choosing a date causes VO to get 
> stuck in the date area.
> 
> Once I figured out that I needed to interact with the date again, I was not 
> able to hear which field I was editing with up and down arrows. More 
> accurately, I can hear the items which are changing but once I have selected 
> an item and use the left or right arrows to move to the next item, no time or 
> date elements are announced until I start using up or down arrows to edit 
> them.
> 
> So I basically need to just guess at which time or date element I am editing 
> at any given moment.
> 
> this is further complicated by the fact that once I am done editing the time 
> and date, Voiceover still seems to be stuck in the date area and it is only 
> by luck that I am able to get out of this area and not change anything I have 
> just set.
> 
> Once I get through that horror show, then I need to be careful when moving 
> through the rest of the scheduling window so as not to accidentally get 
> caught in the date area again.
> 
> So finally, once I have scheduled the meeting successfully, I then go to my 
> meetings tab and am greeted with a grid of unknown cells which I then need to 
> interact with to see which contains my scheduled meeting. Once I do that, 
> there is no obvious way to add participants to it.
> 
> If I click on the Contacts tab to access my company contacts I find a really 
> funky table that seems to cause Voiceover to keep jumping in the list of 
> people as if the list is constantly refreshing.
> 
> Once I am able to select a person, I am placed into what looks like a chat 
> window and again, Voiceover gets stuck in this window. I.E. I can press 
> Escape to get out of the chat window but as soon as Voiceover moves out of 
> the window its focus is immediately brought back into the chat window again.
> 
> This insanity also sometimes happens when I am just moving through the table 
> trying to locate a person. I.E. I will be looking for someone and suddenly I 
> will just end up in a chat window with a random person I am passing by in the 
> constantly refreshing list of contacts.
> 
> I am assuming this list keeps refreshing to keep up with coworkers statuses 
> and such but for God’s sake, there needs to be a way to turn this off. lol!
> 
> Needless to say this is all just hellishly annoying to say the least when I 
> just want / need to get work done. So I am really curious at what others’ are 
> doing to make this app usable.
> 
> I have not even gotten into the squirreliness on the iOS client or the window 
> juggling I seem to need to do when hosting a live meeting or presentation on 
> the Mac where I need to do screen sharing. It’s all just a bit much for me. 
> :) -And certainly is not ready to be called accessible at a corporate level 
> in my opinion.
> 
> So for me personally, calling this accessible is really kind of a stretch. 
> It’s sort of usable but not what I would consider accessible or at all 
> enjoyable. :)
> 
> Just my opinion of course and as I say, I am more than excited to hear 
> others’ feedback if it can help me tame this beastie! lol!
> 
> thanks bunches All and do have a lovely evening / morning / day, wherever you 
> may be on this little blue-green ball of ours.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> confer

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Cara Quinn]

Karen and All,

I have also been using Zoom with a corporate account pretty much every day for 
about a year now but unlike everyone else posting here so far, I have 
encountered a number of really bothersome accessibility issues.

So I am wondering if you or someone else in this thread may be able to tell me 
what the heck I am doing wrong! lol!

Firstly, in scheduling a meeting on the Mac, choosing a date causes VO to get 
stuck in the date area.

Once I figured out that I needed to interact with the date again, I was not 
able to hear which field I was editing with up and down arrows. More 
accurately, I can hear the items which are changing but once I have selected an 
item and use the left or right arrows to move to the next item, no time or date 
elements are announced until I start using up or down arrows to edit them.

So I basically need to just guess at which time or date element I am editing at 
any given moment.

this is further complicated by the fact that once I am done editing the time 
and date, Voiceover still seems to be stuck in the date area and it is only by 
luck that I am able to get out of this area and not change anything I have just 
set.

Once I get through that horror show, then I need to be careful when moving 
through the rest of the scheduling window so as not to accidentally get caught 
in the date area again.

So finally, once I have scheduled the meeting successfully, I then go to my 
meetings tab and am greeted with a grid of unknown cells which I then need to 
interact with to see which contains my scheduled meeting. Once I do that, there 
is no obvious way to add participants to it.

If I click on the Contacts tab to access my company contacts I find a really 
funky table that seems to cause Voiceover to keep jumping in the list of people 
as if the list is constantly refreshing.

Once I am able to select a person, I am placed into what looks like a chat 
window and again, Voiceover gets stuck in this window. I.E. I can press Escape 
to get out of the chat window but as soon as Voiceover moves out of the window 
its focus is immediately brought back into the chat window again.

This insanity also sometimes happens when I am just moving through the table 
trying to locate a person. I.E. I will be looking for someone and suddenly I 
will just end up in a chat window with a random person I am passing by in the 
constantly refreshing list of contacts.

I am assuming this list keeps refreshing to keep up with coworkers statuses and 
such but for God’s sake, there needs to be a way to turn this off. lol!

Needless to say this is all just hellishly annoying to say the least when I 
just want / need to get work done. So I am really curious at what others’ are 
doing to make this app usable.

I have not even gotten into the squirreliness on the iOS client or the window 
juggling I seem to need to do when hosting a live meeting or presentation on 
the Mac where I need to do screen sharing. It’s all just a bit much for me. :) 
-And certainly is not ready to be called accessible at a corporate level in my 
opinion.

So for me personally, calling this accessible is really kind of a stretch. It’s 
sort of usable but not what I would consider accessible or at all enjoyable. :)

Just my opinion of course and as I say, I am more than excited to hear others’ 
feedback if it can help me tame this beastie! lol!

thanks bunches All and do have a lovely evening / morning / day, wherever you 
may be on this little blue-green ball of ours.

Cheers!

Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:

> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is 
>> that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>> covering al

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Karen Lewellen]

well, given there is no more uniformity  in appreciating sound then there 
is  a uniform sighted verses blind people  concept at all, I would say 
certainly some do.
What tends to happen with consumers in general is that they think it is 
supposed to be that bad  because they hear it everywhere.  MP3 content can 
be the same, with a desire for better sound feeding  the return of lp 
records.
Companies and individuals who take their communication seriously either 
use different services, instant teleconference for example, or run the 
sound through a proper filter.
Not everyone calls in on the same sort of device, and I have yet to be at a 
zoom event where the presenter tried taking questions, or doing more than 
the captive audience thing.
Still this has nothing to do with the nonexistent two sides of a coin concept 
of  sight or its absence.

Kare


On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Caitlyn Furness wrote:


Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait


On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is sort 
of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:


I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.

On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered recently: 
www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
website (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address 
(acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall





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Visi

Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Cait, yes they do.  I worked for a long time for Fidelity Investments where we 
built a custom video and audio conferencing system.  It replaced the one 
Verizon offers.  We actually took great care to have good quality audio along 
with fantastic video.  We supported from standard definition video up to 4K 30 
FPS non drop and on the audio side everything was G722 wide band so you’d get 
audio quality better than Skype calls in most settings.  On the phone side we 
supported G711 and G722 which means you either got something as good as a 
standard phone call or if your phone supported it like many cell phones do we 
would go wide band so again you’d get that nice crisp full audio.
The users liked it so much they scrapped the audio only conferencing 
service and before we knew it we had 5+ million minutes of business per week.  
We’d support thousands of parallel calls and were able to maintain crisp audio 
so the other guys can if they want to expend the effort and use the extra 
bandwidth.


> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
> the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think 
> the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
>> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
>> Karen
>> 
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>>>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>>>> covering all the major platforms.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of 
>>>> service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
>>>> experience.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>>> already brought up over there.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Alex Hall
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Kliphton Miller]

With the weekly apple conference that I host, we all use the internet audio 
from the app, and the sound is great.  It’s usually about 7 to 10 of us.
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
> the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think 
> the quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net 
>> <mailto:klewel...@shellworld.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
>> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
>> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
>> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
>> Karen
>> 
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com 
>>>> <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/> 
>>>> <http://www.zoom.us/ <http://www.zoom.us/>>. The big news here is that 
>>>> they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility><https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>>), 
>>>> and a commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
>>>> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
>>>> platforms.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of 
>>>> service and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the 
>>>> experience.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>>> already brought up over there.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Alex Hall
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara 
>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Caitlyn Furness]

Lots of these webinar things have bad sound quality-and the more you have on 
the lines, etc, the worse it seems to be!!  Wonder if sighted people think the 
quality is as bad as most of us probably do?!

Cait

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
> instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at all.
> Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
> sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is there.
> Karen
> 
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:
> 
>> I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
>> SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
>> conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was 
>>> discovered recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here 
>>> is that they have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
>>> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
>>> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
>>> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
>>> covering all the major platforms.
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
>>> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first 
>>> place. However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service 
>>> and you try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
>>> 
>>> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
>>> already brought up over there.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Karen Lewellen]

I will add that  zoom allows you to give participant's a call in number 
instead, a fine option for those ho prefer attending without video at 
all.
Granted as is often the case when the audio is video based, the quality is 
sort of nose crinkle  worthy, but at least the door for phone alone is 
there.

Karen

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Kliphton Miller wrote:


I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn???t read during a 
conference, but it???s not a deal breaker.

On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered recently: 
www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
website (https://zoom.us/accessibility <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address 
(acc...@zoom.us <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall





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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Scott Granados]

Whoa Alex that’s good news.  That could really help folks on the job front, 
especially blind engineers in tech support. Very cool and thanks for the 
pointer.
.
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
> recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they 
> have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
> covering all the major platforms.
> 
> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. 
> However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you 
> try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
> 
> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
> already brought up over there.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Kliphton Miller]

I HAVE BEEN USING ZOOM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, IT IS MOSTLY ACCESSIBLE, JUST THAT 
SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE available to the sited user, vo doesn’t read during a 
conference, but it’s not a deal breaker.
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:06 AM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
> recently: www.zoom.us <http://www.zoom.us/>. The big news here is that they 
> have an accessibility website (https://zoom.us/accessibility 
> <https://zoom.us/accessibility>), an email address (acc...@zoom.us 
> <mailto:acc...@zoom.us>), and a commitment to keeping their product 
> accessible. They claim compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, 
> covering all the major platforms.
> 
> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. 
> However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you 
> try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
> 
> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
> already brought up over there.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[David Chittenden]

Yes, I have been using Zoom for the past year or so. It is accessible.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 20/04/2017, at 20:06, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
> recently: www.zoom.us. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
> website (https://zoom.us/accessibility), an email address (acc...@zoom.us), 
> and a commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim 
> compatibility with VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major 
> platforms.
> 
> I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on 
> their website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. 
> However, things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you 
> try Zoom, I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.
> 
> I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was 
> already brought up over there.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
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Accessible web conferencing: zoom.us

[Alex Hall]

Hi all,
I saw on Twitter yesterday that a new web conferencing service was discovered 
recently: www.zoom.us. The big news here is that they have an accessibility 
website (https://zoom.us/accessibility), an email address (acc...@zoom.us), and 
a commitment to keeping their product accessible. They claim compatibility with 
VoiceOver, Talkback, and NVDA, covering all the major platforms.

I haven't tried the service at all, and am going off only what I read on their 
website and in the article that pointed me to them in the first place. However, 
things look good. If you're in need of this kine of service and you try Zoom, 
I'd love to hear what you thought of the experience.

I haven't been following the Citrix thread, so I apologize if this was already 
brought up over there.

--
Alex Hall




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Web conferencing

[Gary]

Does anyone know if there is free web conferencing software for the  
MAC?  I participate on a Talking communities (TC) web conference site  
that has a windows based client.  I can use my MAC to connect, but can  
only text, while everyone else uses microphones.  I would like to use  
my microphone as well.  The group is not very MAC friendly, and tell  
me that I should stick to the PC, because they don't know anything  
about the MAC and won't waste their time trying to support me.  I hope  
the group can help.

Thanks.
Gary

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Re: Web conferencing

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

Unfortunately TC doesn't care about Mac or Linux users. If you can get  
the group on DinDin or using a DinDin bridge you got it covered.

Regards,
Alex,


On 3-Jul-09, at 11:34 PM, Gary wrote:


 Does anyone know if there is free web conferencing software for the
 MAC?  I participate on a Talking communities (TC) web conference site
 that has a windows based client.  I can use my MAC to connect, but can
 only text, while everyone else uses microphones.  I would like to use
 my microphone as well.  The group is not very MAC friendly, and tell
 me that I should stick to the PC, because they don't know anything
 about the MAC and won't waste their time trying to support me.  I hope
 the group can help.

 Thanks.
 Gary

 


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