[maemo-developers] multiple view
Hi, How to create multiple view in MaemoPad ? Does anyone have multiview example ? BR, Ronny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] re Gtk vs. Qt
>On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them >to have similar problems: >- User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator > (should be easiest to fix) This issue has been resolved. See: http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-July/000767.html ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:30 am, Nils Faerber wrote: > What I still do not understand, please excuse my ignorance, will this > Qt/e version still need the whole framebuffer or will it run in some > kind of simulated framebuffer inside X11? And what would be the > consequences of that, i.e. will it be possibleto run multiple of such > Qt/e apps simultanously? Qt/e will still need a framebuffer. whether is is a virtual framebuffer or not, it does not matter. At least with qvfb (qvfb is similar to xvfb), one can run many instances. So every running qt/e application can have its own virtual framebuffer. You must export QWS_DISPLAY=QVFb:0 or QVFb:1. Or use just one vfb, and run many applications in that. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Trolltech Qtopia Community Manager irc.freenode.net #qtopia http://qtopia.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:35 pm, Justin Bradford wrote: > > Should this mailing list be moderated? > > Yes. Seriously, I don't mean to write obnoxious responses to Potter et > al, but eventually their idiocy just breaks me (damn, did it again). > So a filter on both of "our sides" wouldn't be a bad idea. Every mail client I have ever seen includes a useful feature. A manual filter button. It's got the label "Delete" on it. I suggest you use it when you see things you don't like to read. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Trolltech Qtopia Community Manager irc.freenode.net #qtopia http://qtopia.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:21 pm, Justin Bradford wrote: > Perhaps because actual and potential maemo open source developers are > sick of hearing about how it should really be a QT/e based platform. well, if so many people mention this, maybe it's true. > What exactly is better about that approach, besides, of course, that > Trolltech gets $$$ for any commercial developer that decides to > consider the platform. Why would Nokia choose a QT based system when > they actually want commercial developers? > > And, as it it is a flamewar and all, perhaps the unpleasantness is > just the consequence of general nausea at the prospect of having to > pay some random company for the mere privilege of developing > commercial applications for a platform. and I suppose you get your hardware free from a non company entity? There are good reasons why businesses would want one _real_ company behind software that they are trying to develop a device for. > For what it's worth, this is the first Linux-based handheld/"embedded" > device I was interested in developing for, largely because it was the > first device that didn't use QT. > > Sure a QT license is a trivial percentage of the cost of commercial > development, but I refuse to consider a platform that *requires* QT on > simple principle. And this is being written on a laptop running > Windows. And moreover, a laptop running Windows with well over $2000 > of Windows development software on it. But if I wanted, developing > commercial apps for Windows or MacOS (which I do), could cost nothing > more than that needed for testing. But developing for KDE still > requires an unvoidable tithe to Trolltech. Any platform that has a > core, fundamental library under the GPL license should be shunned, > whether RMS is pleased or not. heh. Qt is dual licensed. LGPL isn't really about free software anyway, but let's not digress. > And the sheer arrogance of Trolltech and their positioning of QT makes excuse me? Arrogance? I came from the open source developer world, and I see no arrogance at Trolltech. Only arrogance I see is from zealots living in a black and white world. > me wish that that company (and their employees who decided on this > course of action) will rot in hell for eternity. There is no company > in the world I would rather see sink into bankruptcy and oblivion more > than Trolltech. They have done incalcuable damage to the state of the > Linux desktop. Riiight. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Trolltech Qtopia Community Manager irc.freenode.net #qtopia http://qtopia.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter schrieb: > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:15 pm, Kate Alhola wrote: >>I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826 >>bytes ( 10Mbyte !! ) > This is why Qtopia uses Qt/E 2 (which is still actively maintained). You can > use that or wait for Qt/E4. You can whittle down the size by configuring only > useful features. What I still do not understand, please excuse my ignorance, will this Qt/e version still need the whole framebuffer or will it run in some kind of simulated framebuffer inside X11? And what would be the consequences of that, i.e. will it be possibleto run multiple of such Qt/e apps simultanously? This is really not continueing the fl*me, I am really curious what the state of Qt/e is nowadays and which possibilities there are to enable compatibility... Cheers nils faerber - -- kernel concepts Tel: +49-271-771091-12 Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57250 Netphen Mob: +49-176-21024535 - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC5oFPJXeIURG1qHgRArbrAKDjT1/cm/1XqIyrBpyT6kmCuppnzwCeJBuj m8/Xe3KXe/SqbLnFThP2Nm4= =JD+u -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:26 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > > Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious > > why you're > > doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is > > significantly smaller > > (less features of course)? > > Maemo (and therefore the Nokia 770 device) uses X11 and there is no place > for Qt/e which does not use X. Qt/e emulation to get some software running > on the maemo and the current maemo compliant device is a great idea if it > will work, if you ask me. However, replacing the X11 with Qt/e / qtopia > would be really bad idea (IMHO). > > I have compiled both Qt3/X11 and Qt4/X11 for maemo. I haven't tried to put > the Qt4 to the device yet since it is quite huge with the default options. Qt4 still is new and does not have all the features configuring that the previous qt libraries have. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Trolltech Qtopia Community Manager irc.freenode.net #qtopia http://qtopia.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:15 pm, Kate Alhola wrote: > I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826 > bytes ( 10Mbyte !! ) This is why Qtopia uses Qt/E 2 (which is still actively maintained). You can use that or wait for Qt/E4. You can whittle down the size by configuring only useful features. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Trolltech Qtopia Community Manager irc.freenode.net #qtopia http://qtopia.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
At 08:26 AM 7/26/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, > Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious > why you're > doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is > significantly smaller > (less features of course)? Maemo (and therefore the Nokia 770 device) uses X11 and there is no place for Qt/e which does not use X. Qt/e emulation to get some software running on the maemo and the current maemo compliant device is a great idea if it will work, if you ask me. However, replacing the X11 with Qt/e / qtopia would be really bad idea (IMHO). you've actually done the work, so you know more than I am, I'm simply throwing out questions based on my understanding. My intent has never been to replace X11 or Maemo, but to have a qtopia app run in it, rather like when we sell Qt apps and someone runs them on a GNOME desktop, we include the libs required for it to run. You miss some things like cut&paste in this environment due to no shared clipboard (at least last time I checked). Now what immediately comes to mind is that your file dialogs will probably look and work differently, but even on the Zaurus we've always had our own look and feel in our apps. I have compiled both Qt3/X11 and Qt4/X11 for maemo. I haven't tried to put the Qt4 to the device yet since it is quite huge with the default options. We've done a little Qt4 porting on the desktop so far and it's a heck of a lot of work. Even moving Qtopia apps to Qt is not particularly trivial, it kind of depends on the function of the app though. Best Regards, Karoliina Salminen Regards, Shawn Gordon President theKompany.com www.thekompany.com www.mindawn.com 949-713-3276 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
Hi, > Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious > why you're > doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is > significantly smaller > (less features of course)? Maemo (and therefore the Nokia 770 device) uses X11 and there is no place for Qt/e which does not use X. Qt/e emulation to get some software running on the maemo and the current maemo compliant device is a great idea if it will work, if you ask me. However, replacing the X11 with Qt/e / qtopia would be really bad idea (IMHO). I have compiled both Qt3/X11 and Qt4/X11 for maemo. I haven't tried to put the Qt4 to the device yet since it is quite huge with the default options. Best Regards, Karoliina Salminen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
ext Shawn Gordon wrote: Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious why you're doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is significantly smaller (less features of course)? Lorn mentioned qt/e4, I don't know what the state of that is currently, but if that's what get's running in Maemo then we might as well port the UI to Hildon since porting to qt/e4 is probably going to be just about the same effort and we'd rather be native. The bigest reason to port real Qt instead of Qt/e is that Qt/e uses raw framebuffer instead of X11 and in this case becouse co-existance with other Maemo applications is mandatory we need to use X11 version. Least in case of Cumulus, the porting from Qt/e 2.x to Qt 3.3.2 was relativelly easy. One big problem to port applications to native Hildon/Gtk is that thay are at the moment C, not C++ I really like to see C++ bindings for all Maemo stuff. Basically there is a huge library of free applications and our commercial applications that run on qt/e2 that ships with all the Zaurus's (Zaurii) so any effort to get some emulation working would be most effective if it targeted the platform that is currently in the largest deployment. I'm apparently jumping in to this whole topic late, so I don't know what has been discussed before, but I think we're the only hardcore commercial developers of qtopia applications around, so we have some specific ideas in this regard. May be in case of commercial developper, the porting Qt/e applications to native Maemo will be good solution but mostly in case of many open source applications where resources are more limited tq Qtopia emulation will be easiest way. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] GPE teleport in maemo
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, Are there any plans to support the uebercool teleport [1][2] app in maemo? regards, Koen [1] http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/teleport [2] http://handhelds.org/scap/land.18969.png -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFC5kdVMkyGM64RGpERAvpRAJwJGb7BdhOXDl+/NxQq54PwgicWVgCfY9X+ eNKn31Q10I/4V7r1SdhM8Gc= =wVLM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious why you're doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is significantly smaller (less features of course)? Lorn mentioned qt/e4, I don't know what the state of that is currently, but if that's what get's running in Maemo then we might as well port the UI to Hildon since porting to qt/e4 is probably going to be just about the same effort and we'd rather be native. Basically there is a huge library of free applications and our commercial applications that run on qt/e2 that ships with all the Zaurus's (Zaurii) so any effort to get some emulation working would be most effective if it targeted the platform that is currently in the largest deployment. I'm apparently jumping in to this whole topic late, so I don't know what has been discussed before, but I think we're the only hardcore commercial developers of qtopia applications around, so we have some specific ideas in this regard. best, shawn At 05:15 AM 7/26/2005, Kate Alhola wrote: ext Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them to have similar problems: - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family & size and they don't change when device theme is changed) - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar) - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed) - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking the UI) - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator (should be easiest to fix) I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other application Also the Qtopia emulation layer would be usefull for porting Qt/Qtopia applications. There is work to do but it looks a like that there is lot of interest to have possibility to port QT / Qtopia applications and so there is good reason to do this work. I think that it is much more usefull to do this port as open source project and produce shared library that can be used multiple applications instead that every app developper will make their own port and spend lot of memory with statically linking. I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826 bytes ( 10Mbyte !! ) It is large and may be that many Qt applications need to be in RS-MMC card but still if some application is written with Qt, there is only two choices, run it even it uses lot of memory and has some diferencies in look and feel or then not run it all. Of cource the major things with Maemo intergration should be resolved like this input methods and pointer/keyboard issues that you mentioned. Also look and feel compatilble themes would be nice thing to have. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Regards, Shawn Gordon President theKompany.com www.thekompany.com www.mindawn.com 949-713-3276 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Shawn Gordon wrote: > Hi, > > Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is > gone, and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of > applications to the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we > use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've been watching the discussion on that topic with > interest - has anyone tried taking a Qtopia app and getting it to run by > just including the Qtopia libs required for it? Aside from that, a > contact at Nokia would be really appreciate, I've seen some names around > but no email addresses. Feel free to reply privately if needed. Thanks. > One way you may be able to have maemo-like application frames is by creating a normal maemo application and using XEmbed (http://www.freedesktop.org/Standards/xembed-spec) to have your qtopia application within a gtk+ applicaton. With some kind of messaging you could even take use of the default application menu. IM integration may be a lot more work, as will be changing the graphics off all qtopia widgets. - Eero Tanskanen > > Best Regards, > > Shawn Gordon > President > theKompany.com > www.thekompany.com > www.mindawn.com > 949-713-3276 > > > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Yea, I know it is the wrong forum, but...
Michael, I have a potentially similar interest, specifically to use the N770 as a remote desktop/controller for Microsoft Windows XP MCE 2005 by porting rdesktop http://www.rdesktop.org/ and tsclient http://www.linux-mag.com/content/view/140/43/ to the N770 platform. In addition to the use of the N770 as a handheld wireless controller for MCE, I want to design the solution to also support video as well as audio playback on the N770 of already recorded as well as live content sourced from the MCE system including, for example, playback of XM Radio OTA (when tethered to a XM receiver tied into an MCE system) as well as XM Radio Internet broadcasts (when tethered to the internet). Given that the N770 includes a Mozilla browser , supporting XM Radio Internet broadcasts should be straightforward. What I am not certain of at this point is whether rdesktop and/or tsclient and/or the N770 itself will have to be modified to allow the pass-thru of the necessary screen resolution from the MCE app (ehshell) in order to support what I have in mind. I mention this because, at this time, when I use rdesktop/tsclient on a Thinkpad running RHEL3.0 to connect to XP MCE, I can connect to the MCE system no problem, however, the ehshell app exits with a message that I don't have sufficient screen resolution on the client computer in order for ehshell to run properly. This is NOT a problem when I use another PC that is running Windows XP. I think the problem here is that the rdesktop client that is packaged into RHEL3.0 is an older revision that does not support the higher screen resolution required by the MCE ehshell app. I am looking forward to getting a unit of the hw from Nokia so I can run some tests and then determine what software development if any will be required. By the way, and, slightly Ot, I think it would be interesting for Russound or some other supplier to develop a pocket sized XM Receiver with a USB interface for the N770 similar in concept to the (apparently now defunct) XMPCR product with a price point of say $75-100. You could even design it as kind of a docking station for the N770. Of course, the sticking point on a product like this might be DRM (at least from XM's perspective). Unfortunately I don't have any specific contacts to offer to you in Nokia these days. If you would like to share ideas further about the N770 as a platform for supporting XP MCE please contact me off list. -- Best Regards, John Holmblad ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Marius Vollmer schrieb: I agree. And, fqlamewars are an essential ingredient to any proper mailing list, of course. They help you to tell the bozos apart from the useful people. Har! *ROTFL* Cool remark! May be, this will be my new signature! :-) BTW: I agree, this list shouldn't be moderated. Censorship can not be the solution! Cheers, Timo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
"ext Nils Faerber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Timo Savola schrieb: >> Should this mailing list be moderated? > > No, I do not think so. I agree. And, fqlamewars are an essential ingredient to any proper mailing list, of course. They help you to tell the bozos apart from the useful people. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Timo Savola schrieb:
> Should this mailing list be moderated?
No, I do not think so.
What would be the consequence? Censorship by the moderator which in
itself can be insulting again ("Why was my post XY not posted to the
list?").
No, I think conflicts like this are simply facts of life. We have to
cope with it. It shows very clearly where certain people stand and that
can itself be good again.
As long as the mails do not become really dangerous or impose unlawful
things we should rather live with it...
> timo
Regards
nils faerber
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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kate Alhola wrote: > ext Eero Tamminen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them >> to have similar problems: >> - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family >> & size and they don't change when device theme is changed) >> - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen >> usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar) >> - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated >> with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up >> automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed) >> - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't >> release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking >> the UI) >> - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator >> (should be easiest to fix) >> >> I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly >> to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional >> memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other application >> > > Also the Qtopia emulation layer would be usefull for porting Qt/Qtopia > applications. > > There is work to do but it looks a like that there is lot of interest to > have possibility > to port QT / Qtopia applications and so there is good reason to do this > work. > I think that it is much more usefull to do this port as open source > project and produce > shared library that can be used multiple applications instead that every > app developper > will make their own port and spend lot of memory with statically linking. > > I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826 > bytes ( 10Mbyte !! ) That's about 6 or 7 MB on jffs2, which leaves ~56 MB for the apps, so I wouldn't stop too long on the size in this stage of the port. The 770 has a HUGE internal flash of 128MB and jffs2 compresses most stuff pretty good. Do you have some screenshots of cumulus (iirc osso-screenshot-tool can do that) to motivate other developers? regards, Koen > It is large and may be that many Qt applications need to be in RS-MMC > card but > still if some application is written with Qt, there is only two choices, > run it even > it uses lot of memory and has some diferencies in look and feel or then > not run it all. > > Of cource the major things with Maemo intergration should be resolved > like this input > methods and pointer/keyboard issues that you mentioned. Also look and > feel compatilble themes > would be nice thing to have. > > > > Kate > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFC5itgMkyGM64RGpERAjaTAJ9XD80BRd/0DWQhVcjJ1watVhbfyACgn/Z3 kUH/zw+x79kHqUrN2VLGlHw= =L75F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
ext Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them to have similar problems: - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family & size and they don't change when device theme is changed) - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar) - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed) - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking the UI) - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator (should be easiest to fix) I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other application Also the Qtopia emulation layer would be usefull for porting Qt/Qtopia applications. There is work to do but it looks a like that there is lot of interest to have possibility to port QT / Qtopia applications and so there is good reason to do this work. I think that it is much more usefull to do this port as open source project and produce shared library that can be used multiple applications instead that every app developper will make their own port and spend lot of memory with statically linking. I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826 bytes ( 10Mbyte !! ) It is large and may be that many Qt applications need to be in RS-MMC card but still if some application is written with Qt, there is only two choices, run it even it uses lot of memory and has some diferencies in look and feel or then not run it all. Of cource the major things with Maemo intergration should be resolved like this input methods and pointer/keyboard issues that you mentioned. Also look and feel compatilble themes would be nice thing to have. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
Hi, Will the final image have a switch/setting to disable this? I'm planning to use a bluetooth keyboard with the 770 and I would like the virtual keyboard to stay down when using the bluetooth one. Of course! Standard GTK+ has this righ button clicking on any input area! Wait a sec... we don't have rmb. Seriously, there are some investigations about system which detects if there is hw kayboards attached and switches the input method automatically. However, this is just in the investigating stage and this is really not a supported feature, so it might be possible that it will never come, at least it will never be officially mentioned (in any advertising/product info channels). USB keyboards are in main priority, but after they work I think it's not hard to add bt keyboard support (assuming we already have drivers). -Kuisma ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
ext Shawn Gordon wrote: Hi, Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is gone, and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of applications to the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've been watching the discussion on that topic with interest - has anyone tried taking a Qtopia app and getting it to run by just including the Qtopia libs required for it? Aside from that, a contact at Nokia would be really appreciate, I've seen some names around but no email addresses. Feel free to reply privately if needed. Thanks. I have been porting one Qtopia application ( Cumulus flight GPS ) to 770 I have got it running even in native 770 but at the moment without any Maemo specific support. The steps that i have done in scratch/alpha level are - QT/X11 3.3 is compiled as native, little bit problems with scratchbox and uic - Limited Qtopia stub library ( config.cpp and resource.cpp from qtopia and then dummyqpe for QPEApplication:: and Global:: ) It looks a like that least with this way it is possible to run Qpe applications in 770 so that they are co-existing with other Maemo applications and without need of Qt/e Still work to done is to integrate them even with basic Maemo things. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
> Should this mailing list be moderated? Yes. Seriously, I don't mean to write obnoxious responses to Potter et al, but eventually their idiocy just breaks me (damn, did it again). So a filter on both of "our sides" wouldn't be a bad idea. Justin ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Hi, Only as a very very last effort. I think we just need a little time to adjust the culture of the list and establish a precedent for what goes and what not. Problem with moderation is that they make mailing lists very slow and tend to kill them as a place to get quick answers. Most likely result of moderation would be making this list very low traffic and making the IRC channel extremely high traffic. Christian On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 13:59 +0300, Timo Savola wrote: > Should this mailing list be moderated? > > timo > > > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
ext Timo Savola wrote: Should this mailing list be moderated? Messages from people who are on the list (and not blacklisted) are automatically posted to the list. Only those exceptions has to be approved by the moderators. If someone abuses the mailing list, then (s)he can be banned from it but I don't see representing own opinions as that (even when you tell somebody to rot in hell, it's just strong feelings). -Kuisma ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Should this mailing list be moderated? timo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eero Tamminen wrote: > Hi, > > On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them > to have similar problems: > - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family > & size and they don't change when device theme is changed) > - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen > usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar) > - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated > with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up > automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed) Will the final image have a switch/setting to disable this? I'm planning to use a bluetooth keyboard with the 770 and I would like the virtual keyboard to stay down when using the bluetooth one. regards, Koen > - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't > release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking the UI) > - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator > (should be easiest to fix) > > I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly > to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional > memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other applications. > > It should be easy to test above issues with the x86 SDK. From the X mailing > lists I've noticed that Trolltech people are also using Xephyr. :) > > Then there's of course the thing that well behaving applications should > implement some callbacks e.g. for UI state saving so that memory usage > can be better managed. > > > - Eero > > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFC5hcTMkyGM64RGpERAn3rAJ9/H/XUbGFal1W456z3hMBgLUmKmgCdFUUw tfJ8lp76E4Hfh8VAjADkAGk= =J+v6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Hi, I think there are two different cases here. Shawn and other developers who want to run their apps on Maemo/770 are of course welcome to do so and should get a welcome with some pointers to how they can do so most easily. I agree with Mikael that Shawn's questions wheren't really out of place or very advocative. Shawn have a big pool of Qt-based apps and he wants to port them over to Maemo and the 770 as cheaply as possible, nothing wrong with that. Wether keep using Qt is viable is another question, but we should give him technical reasons (and some of the mails did so) for why it might be a less than ideal solution for Maemo systems. Shawn have had a history of being rather strong worded on the issue himself, but his original mail to this list did not in my opinion warrant the replies he got. The other case, which I agree is out of place, is when people do Qt advocacy on this list, that is just an irritant and non-productive. Christian On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 03:21 -0700, Justin Bradford wrote: > On 7/26/05, Mikael Hallendal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The only ones who brought up a QT/Qtopia vs. GTK/Hildon flamewar here > > was the supporters of the latter. > > You apparently haven't read any of Lorn Potter's emails to the list... > > > 1) Has anyone looked in to the shortest-possible route of having a > >QT-based application running on the 770. > > There has been some productive discussion regarding the significant > development necessary to get QT based apps running "natively" on the > maemo platform. Basically, these issues are supporting gtk/hildon > widgets (or at least themes) and osso/dbus support. > > > 2) If someone from Nokia could contact him for possible business to > >business communication on how to make the Komanpanys applications to > >run on the 770. > > I think this is really the problem. In theory, this email list is > about the maemo platform, not various how to work around the the > non-proprietary architecture Nokia has chosen for the 770. Perhaps > those Nokia employees looking in might consider proferring a > commercial app email address to contact rather than everyone just > settling on the maemo dev lists. > > > The Maemo platform is X/GTK+ based, I don't see that changing, why need to > > defend > > it when it's not even being attacked. > > Perhaps because actual and potential maemo open source developers are > sick of hearing about how it should really be a QT/e based platform. > What exactly is better about that approach, besides, of course, that > Trolltech gets $$$ for any commercial developer that decides to > consider the platform. Why would Nokia choose a QT based system when > they actually want commercial developers? > > And, as it it is a flamewar and all, perhaps the unpleasantness is > just the consequence of general nausea at the prospect of having to > pay some random company for the mere privilege of developing > commercial applications for a platform. > > For what it's worth, this is the first Linux-based handheld/"embedded" > device I was interested in developing for, largely because it was the > first device that didn't use QT. > > Sure a QT license is a trivial percentage of the cost of commercial > development, but I refuse to consider a platform that *requires* QT on > simple principle. And this is being written on a laptop running > Windows. And moreover, a laptop running Windows with well over $2000 > of Windows development software on it. But if I wanted, developing > commercial apps for Windows or MacOS (which I do), could cost nothing > more than that needed for testing. But developing for KDE still > requires an unvoidable tithe to Trolltech. Any platform that has a > core, fundamental library under the GPL license should be shunned, > whether RMS is pleased or not. > > And the sheer arrogance of Trolltech and their positioning of QT makes > me wish that that company (and their employees who decided on this > course of action) will rot in hell for eternity. There is no company > in the world I would rather see sink into bankruptcy and oblivion more > than Trolltech. They have done incalcuable damage to the state of the > Linux desktop. > > If you want a QT or qtopia based application to run natively and > seamlessly on the 770, just port it to gtk/hildon/osso. An extra > upside: you can stop (or avoid) paying royalties to some > inconsequential company if you don't feel inclined to. > > Justin > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller Business Development Manager Fluendo S.L. Mobile Phone: +34 678093464 Office Phone: +34 933175153 Fax : +34 936002310 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt
Hi, On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them to have similar problems: - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family & size and they don't change when device theme is changed) - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar) - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed) - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking the UI) - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator (should be easiest to fix) I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other applications. It should be easy to test above issues with the x86 SDK. From the X mailing lists I've noticed that Trolltech people are also using Xephyr. :) Then there's of course the thing that well behaving applications should implement some callbacks e.g. for UI state saving so that memory usage can be better managed. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Justin Bradford wrote: > On 7/26/05, Mikael Hallendal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, >>The only ones who brought up a QT/Qtopia vs. GTK/Hildon flamewar here >>was the supporters of the latter. > > You apparently haven't read any of Lorn Potter's emails to the list... I've been on this list since it started and I saw that discussion but chose to ignore it since it wasn't relevant to my work or interest. However, in this case Lorn didn't get involved until after Shawn had already been bashed for happening to mention QT in a mail. >>1) Has anyone looked in to the shortest-possible route of having a >> QT-based application running on the 770. > > There has been some productive discussion regarding the significant > development necessary to get QT based apps running "natively" on the > maemo platform. Basically, these issues are supporting gtk/hildon > widgets (or at least themes) and osso/dbus support. So, wouldn't you say pointing to that thread would have been a more approriate reply to Shawn? I would say that figuring out the best way to port or get a Qtopia-based application running nicely on the Maemo platform would be very much in Maemo developers interest. And if the best way is to provide a nice migrational path from QT to GTK+ be it, but keep the level of dicussion on a higher ground. >>2) If someone from Nokia could contact him for possible business to >> business communication on how to make the Komanpanys applications to >> run on the 770. > > I think this is really the problem. In theory, this email list is > about the maemo platform, not various how to work around the the > non-proprietary architecture Nokia has chosen for the 770. Perhaps > those Nokia employees looking in might consider proferring a > commercial app email address to contact rather than everyone just > settling on the maemo dev lists. Well, it's a new device and a new platform project. It's bound to have a few bumps before everything is crystal clear and it's obvious where to turn for information. It doesn't justify being rude. I'm cutting of the rant below, sorry, but you don't have to convince me that GTK+ or Open Source is good. I've been a full time OSS and GTK+ developer for more than 5 years. Best Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Imendio AB, http://www.imendio.com/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
On 7/26/05, Mikael Hallendal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The only ones who brought up a QT/Qtopia vs. GTK/Hildon flamewar here > was the supporters of the latter. You apparently haven't read any of Lorn Potter's emails to the list... > 1) Has anyone looked in to the shortest-possible route of having a >QT-based application running on the 770. There has been some productive discussion regarding the significant development necessary to get QT based apps running "natively" on the maemo platform. Basically, these issues are supporting gtk/hildon widgets (or at least themes) and osso/dbus support. > 2) If someone from Nokia could contact him for possible business to >business communication on how to make the Komanpanys applications to >run on the 770. I think this is really the problem. In theory, this email list is about the maemo platform, not various how to work around the the non-proprietary architecture Nokia has chosen for the 770. Perhaps those Nokia employees looking in might consider proferring a commercial app email address to contact rather than everyone just settling on the maemo dev lists. > The Maemo platform is X/GTK+ based, I don't see that changing, why need to > defend > it when it's not even being attacked. Perhaps because actual and potential maemo open source developers are sick of hearing about how it should really be a QT/e based platform. What exactly is better about that approach, besides, of course, that Trolltech gets $$$ for any commercial developer that decides to consider the platform. Why would Nokia choose a QT based system when they actually want commercial developers? And, as it it is a flamewar and all, perhaps the unpleasantness is just the consequence of general nausea at the prospect of having to pay some random company for the mere privilege of developing commercial applications for a platform. For what it's worth, this is the first Linux-based handheld/"embedded" device I was interested in developing for, largely because it was the first device that didn't use QT. Sure a QT license is a trivial percentage of the cost of commercial development, but I refuse to consider a platform that *requires* QT on simple principle. And this is being written on a laptop running Windows. And moreover, a laptop running Windows with well over $2000 of Windows development software on it. But if I wanted, developing commercial apps for Windows or MacOS (which I do), could cost nothing more than that needed for testing. But developing for KDE still requires an unvoidable tithe to Trolltech. Any platform that has a core, fundamental library under the GPL license should be shunned, whether RMS is pleased or not. And the sheer arrogance of Trolltech and their positioning of QT makes me wish that that company (and their employees who decided on this course of action) will rot in hell for eternity. There is no company in the world I would rather see sink into bankruptcy and oblivion more than Trolltech. They have done incalcuable damage to the state of the Linux desktop. If you want a QT or qtopia based application to run natively and seamlessly on the 770, just port it to gtk/hildon/osso. An extra upside: you can stop (or avoid) paying royalties to some inconsequential company if you don't feel inclined to. Justin ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?
Hi, First of all, where is all this attitude from third-party developers coming from? All I could hear was Shawn asking two very valid questions. 1) Has anyone looked in to the shortest-possible route of having a QT-based application running on the 770. 2) If someone from Nokia could contact him for possible business to business communication on how to make the Komanpanys applications to run on the 770. And after that getting jumped by several persons who seem to believe that the Maemo platform needs to be defended for some reason. The Maemo platform is X/GTK+ based, I don't see that changing, why need to defend it when it's not even being attacked. The only ones who brought up a QT/Qtopia vs. GTK/Hildon flamewar here was the supporters of the latter. Please try to keep the level of discussion at a civilized level. Best Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Imendio AB, http://www.imendio.com/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
