Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Devesh Kothari schrieb: [...] So we won't get the SDK before the release, but at the same time? Given the huge incompatibilities (app-installer, EABI) I would have thought nokia would release the sdk a bit earlier to give the app developers a chance to get their software out on time. [...] What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Is there any news on this? As Carlos disclosed indirectly in another mail to the list (about the application competition at GUADEC) the new LT2006 edition will see the light of day somewhere before or at least at GUADEC, which is a little less than a month away. If we want to provide our users with updated packages at product launch it is just about time to have the corresponding development package at hand. Again, I still think that it would be of great benefit for the developers, the users and Nokia to release the SDK before the product (developers get early experience, users will get packages at product launch and Nokia gets early feedback from experienced developers). Devesh Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts Tel: +49-271-771091-12 Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57250 Netphen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Hi, On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 03:55:48PM +0300, Tomi Ollila wrote: I recommend that a live cd or similiar would be launched some time in advance. That would allow developers to compile their apps in there and switch their own systems to 2.0 when 2.0 is in final state and 2006 is out. What's the problem of apt-get installing a new EABI Scrathcbox toolchain + creating a separate target for IT2006 (using that toolchain)? I and my colleaque set up scratchbox environment separately for N770 and suprisingly those were so different than code compiled on my system did not work on his Then you're using either a different Scratchbox, toolchain or developer rootstrap version. Note that the toolchain you've set up for compiling the code in the Scratchbox *must* match the libc6 package that's in the rootstrap. Otherwise you (obviously) get all kinds of problems. Also, the initial setup was so pain... Depends on what distro you're using. :-) On Debian (or Ubuntu for that matter), it's just apt-get install. You can have multiple targets in Scratchbox, each with their own CPU architecture, toolchain, software etc... I'd just like to have one tarball that can be extracted somewhere and when chrooting there I could compile programs for N770 and test those there. I don't gain anything else than pain setting up the system differently. All Scratchbox components are also available as tarballs, but then you have to configure them yourself besides setting up whatever targets you want to use. Note that Scratchbox is not (just) maemo build environment, it's a tool for cross-compiling whole Linux distributions, such as Maemo. ... after chrooting I could run apt-get dist-upgrade to be in sync with newest updates and wit others. Scratchbox is basically a chroot environment, but a one that's specifically set up to do cross-compilation: - that looks to the compiled software like the compilation were native - can optionally use real HW to run the (autotools) test program There's no other tool that could build Debian from Scratch, let alone cross-compile it like Scratchbox can. For more on the problems on cross-building, see: http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html (it's a bit old and doesn't mention problems in cross-building Debian which is several magnitudes harder problem.) (And, if this system were much smaller than the current one that would be nice too...) If Sbox would use the (core/find/textutils, python/perl..) binaries from the surrounding distro instead of being self-contained, it would: - Be tied to specific distro and specific version of that distro: - If you have other (version of the) distro, you would need to build scratchbox yourself (but it would be much smaller) - Debugging problems in the build environment would be hell because each user would have different set/version of the build utilities and their own problems - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. One can always dream. :) -August On 5/16/06, Devesh Kothari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Koen Kooi wrote: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html Hi, In case anyone missed it: http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html The biggest error in the statement: It is downloadable free of charge from the Internet www.nokia.com/770. It will be :) This is the 2006 IT SW Edition launch (which means we are close to public release). Currently we do not yet have the exact final public release date. We also intend to coincide the release of Maemo 2.0 release candidate with the public release. Trust me team is working real hard :) Cheers Devesh nokia.com only has IT2005 downloads :( regards, Koen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
On 5/17/06, August Joki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? One would assume that :) Otherwise it would be a bit silly thing to put there, wouldn't it? (I just hope not many people have destroyed the mic while trying to reset the device with a needle ;) Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. Actually, if you put your ear to the speaker, the mic aligns pretty naturally to your mouth[1]. And holding it like that puts your thumb to the buttons on top of the device. Coincide? I think not ;) [1] If you are right-handed of course -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Kalle Vahlman wrote: On 5/17/06, August Joki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? One would assume that :) Otherwise it would be a bit silly thing to put there, wouldn't it? (I just hope not many people have destroyed the mic while trying to reset the device with a needle ;) Now that would be really silly. I hope people don't go sticking stuff in every hole they find... ;) Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. Actually, if you put your ear to the speaker, the mic aligns pretty naturally to your mouth[1]. And holding it like that puts your thumb to the buttons on top of the device. Coincide? I think not ;) [1] If you are right-handed of course I don't know where your mouth is located, but it doesn't align to me :| I think the proper way to use it, is to hold it on the desk while you speak. That should be quite useful, because if you hold the touchscreen to your face, there might be some unwanted buttonclicks in the UI. The speaker itself should be cabable of outputting enough noice, so you can hear something. But I wonder how the battery lasts in a usecase like that? ie. for how long can you speak? / Antti ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
On 5/17/06, Antti Ijäs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kalle Vahlman wrote: On 5/17/06, August Joki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? One would assume that :) Otherwise it would be a bit silly thing to put there, wouldn't it? (I just hope not many people have destroyed the mic while trying to reset the device with a needle ;) Now that would be really silly. I hope people don't go sticking stuff in every hole they find... ;) Indeed :) Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. Actually, if you put your ear to the speaker, the mic aligns pretty naturally to your mouth[1]. And holding it like that puts your thumb to the buttons on top of the device. Coincide? I think not ;) [1] If you are right-handed of course I don't know where your mouth is located, but it doesn't align to me :| Well, I meant more like it is approximately close enough in the right direction so it will catch your voice, not inside your mouth ;) I think the proper way to use it, is to hold it on the desk while you speak. That should be quite useful, because if you hold the touchscreen to your face, there might be some unwanted buttonclicks in the UI. You don't have to give it a bear hug and rub it in your face, but granted that it could be an issue if the ts is not disabled during calls. The speaker itself should be cabable of outputting enough noice, so you can hear something. But I wonder how the battery lasts in a usecase like that? ie. for how long can you speak? That's a good question. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Hi, On 5/17/06, Antti Ijäs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The speaker itself should be cabable of outputting enough noice, so youcan hear something. But I wonder how the battery lasts in a usecase likethat? ie. for how long can you speak? I heard last month that Nokia and Cisco were fellowshiped to find a way to reduce battery consumption during VoIP conversations, thanks to their CCX tecnology.-- Donars Guillaume.My blog: http://guymage.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. I hope there's Bluetooth headset support too but is there an issue using BT and Wireless at the same time? Also it would be cool if the HeadPhone jack was multi pole (or what ever its called when you have 4 connectors) so you could use a mic/headphone combo like of some of the nokia phones too. Peter ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Robinson schrieb: Does the fact that there will be internet telephony software on the device mean that there will be a working driver for the internal microphone? Also I'd imagine(hope) that there will be some sort of compatibility for bluetooth headsets, otherwise it'd be a pain to have to hold the 770 in a position to hear, talk and see it all at the same time. I hope there's Bluetooth headset support too but is there an issue using BT and Wireless at the same time? Technology-wise there no problem with Wifi and Bluetooth at the same time. They both use the 2.4GHz band but with a quite different usage scheme. Wifi uses a single channel constantly while Bluetooth hops within 16 channels at a rate of up to 1200 (?) channel hops per second. So even if Bluetooth happens to hit the same channel it will just be for an amount of time that Wifi would simply ignore - like a small transmission error ;) Concerning headset usage I just had a chat with Marcel Holtmann (the BlueZ maintainer). He sais that it would be possible if Nokia and TI would release the specs for the chipset and the connection of the chipset to the rest of the system concerning audio. Also it would be cool if the HeadPhone jack was multi pole (or what ever its called when you have 4 connectors) so you could use a mic/headphone combo like of some of the nokia phones too. That would be cool! Peter Cheers nils faerber - -- kernel concepts Tel: +49-271-771091-12 Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57250 Netphen Mob: +49-176-21024535 - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEa7X7JXeIURG1qHgRAtofAJ9T4uHjTad5OcWv5Hcfyo90EA1umACgt+hF Jk+kwOzfqsKdpFmspnTbAFE= =y8QG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, In case anyone missed it: http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html The biggest error in the statement: It is downloadable free of charge from the Internet www.nokia.com/770. nokia.com only has IT2005 downloads :( regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEaXsbMkyGM64RGpERAiBNAKCoCa78FXVd2iOUfoMDYhK64qHmigCaAuvE CrgO5MdKsud9/Hz7UU22fyg= =9jXc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
At least, the screenshots look promising ;-) Thank you very much, 2006/5/16, Devesh Kothari [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ext Koen Kooi wrote: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html Hi, In case anyone missed it: http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html The biggest error in the statement: It is downloadable free of charge from the Internet www.nokia.com/770. It will be :) This is the 2006 IT SW Edition launch (which means we are close to public release). Currently we do not yet have the exact final public release date. We also intend to coincide the release of Maemo 2.0 release candidate with the public release. Trust me team is working real hard :) Cheers Devesh nokia.com only has IT2005 downloads :( regards, Koen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.net msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
I hope they release the SDk first, and a pre-IT2006 image to test the recompiled apps... 2006/5/16, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Devesh Kothari schreef: ext Koen Kooi wrote: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html Hi, In case anyone missed it: http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html The biggest error in the statement: It is downloadable free of charge from the Internet www.nokia.com/770. It will be :) This is the 2006 IT SW Edition launch (which means we are close to public release). Currently we do not yet have the exact final public release date. We also intend to coincide the release of Maemo 2.0 release candidate with the public release. Trust me team is working real hard :) So we won't get the SDK before the release, but at the same time? Given the huge incompatibilities (app-installer, EABI) I would have thought nokia would release the sdk a bit earlier to give the app developers a chance to get their software out on time. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEaYpMMkyGM64RGpERAu6QAJ0eh4pQDNp0OW5cjIy5OibaU3sjewCgn21w 5RxTdC9Ut8PQn2u0I1Oi688= =7/ec -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.net msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
On 5/16/06, Devesh Kothari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Koen Kooi wrote: [snip] So we won't get the SDK before the release, but at the same time? Given the huge incompatibilities (app-installer, EABI) I would have thought nokia would release the sdk a bit earlier to give the app developers a chance to get their software out on time. Unfortunately so :( , we are trying hard but due to so many major changes we just dont want to push out something which is either poor quality or half cooked. IF we still are able to beat the IT 2006 to public launch (assuming we get things stabilized enough), we will push it out the door :) [snip] What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Absolutely! The API changes in particular must have time to be tested, even if it's only in Scratchbox. Personally, I'd also like to see at least some form of product image for beta testing (not just our apps, but the OS as well), but that's almost certainly wishful thinking now. Otherwise people'll get upset very quickly when they upgrade and their favourite app doesn't work! Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
On 5/16/06, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Flegg schreef: Otherwise people'll get upset very quickly when they upgrade and their favourite app doesn't work! I suggest removing the application catalog wiki page(s) when IT2006 gets released and fill them with apps that are known to work on IT2006. Interesting idea: the opportunity could also be taken to better structure them. The only slight niggle is that with zero third party software, how many end-users will NOT upgrade immediately, and still want the old app catalogues? Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Absolutely! The API changes in particular must have time to be tested, even if it's only in Scratchbox. Personally, I'd also like to see at least some form of product image for beta testing (not just our apps, but the OS as well), but that's almost certainly wishful thinking now. I second that! Otherwise people'll get upset very quickly when they upgrade and their favourite app doesn't work! I suggest removing the application catalog wiki page(s) when IT2006 gets released and fill them with apps that are known to work on IT2006. Or moving it to a page for Applications IT 2005 and add a new one for IT 2006. Peter ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Peter Robinson wrote: What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Absolutely! The API changes in particular must have time to be tested, even if it's only in Scratchbox. Personally, I'd also like to see at least some form of product image for beta testing (not just our apps, but the OS as well), but that's almost certainly wishful thinking now. I second that! Otherwise people'll get upset very quickly when they upgrade and their favourite app doesn't work! I suggest removing the application catalog wiki page(s) when IT2006 gets released and fill them with apps that are known to work on IT2006. Or moving it to a page for Applications IT 2005 and add a new one for IT 2006. I also wouldn't remove wiki's application catalog 2005 completely. It would remain be useful for those running IT SW 2005. Peter ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Andrey Khurri, Researcher Helsinki Institute for Information Technology (HIIT) Tel: +358 50 384 1510 Fax: +358 9 694 9768 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 5/16/06, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Flegg schreef: Otherwise people'll get upset very quickly when they upgrade and their favourite app doesn't work! I suggest removing the application catalog wiki page(s) when IT2006 gets released and fill them with apps that are known to work on IT2006. Interesting idea: the opportunity could also be taken to better structure them. The only slight niggle is that with zero third party software, how many end-users will NOT upgrade immediately, and still want the old app catalogues? I am of the opinion that everyone MUST be advised to upgrade Since - it is a free upgrade - Maintaining Maemo 1.1 and 2.0 which are incompatible is a big problem (proposal is move Maemo 1.1 to archive status) - It just causes confusion if Maemo 1.1 and 2.0 applications start to coexist especially to the end user (Maemo 2.0 Application installer would refuse to install anyway) So I am of the opinion as Koen, to deprecate the Application Catalogue page and start with a clean slate, and as suggested take the opportunity to reorganize the new catalogue better. Remember now the concept of - click on download link in application catalogue page, browser opens AI, AI installer installs WOULD NOT WORK since we moving to full package management and repository structure (Unless off course packages are as self constained as they with Maemo 1.1, but that we all agree is not real package management :). So we need to come up with the concept of community contrib repository where the 3rd party applications could be uploaded Devesh Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
ext Koen Kooi wrote: Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html Devesh Kothari schreef: ext Koen Kooi wrote: [maemo-developers] http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html Hi, In case anyone missed it: http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html The biggest error in the statement: It is downloadable free of charge from the Internet www.nokia.com/770. It will be :) This is the 2006 IT SW Edition launch (which means we are close to public release). Currently we do not yet have the exact final public release date. We also intend to coincide the release of Maemo 2.0 release candidate with the public release. Trust me team is working real hard :) So we won't get the SDK before the release, but at the same time? Given the huge incompatibilities (app-installer, EABI) I would have thought nokia would release the sdk a bit earlier to give the app developers a chance to get their software out on time. Unfortunately so :( , we are trying hard but due to so many major changes we just dont want to push out something which is either poor quality or half cooked. IF we still are able to beat the IT 2006 to public launch (assuming we get things stabilized enough), we will push it out the door :) Another reason, is we dont just want to push the Maemo 2.0 till we get the public upgrade IT 2006. Since we know Maemo 2.0 would be binary incompatible, the applications cross compiled on the development environment would not run on the current IT 2005 edition (on device) out there, so developers cant really test it on the device. What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Devesh regards, Koen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Devesh Kothari wrote: Another reason, is we dont just want to push the Maemo 2.0 till we get the public upgrade IT 2006. Since we know Maemo 2.0 would be binary incompatible, the applications cross compiled on the development environment would not run on the current IT 2005 edition (on device) out there, so developers cant really test it on the device. Can't we have at least developer rootfs for Maemo 2.0? But with working multimedia if posible. Opera etc. isn't needed for testing. Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Devesh Kothari wrote: Another reason, is we dont just want to push the Maemo 2.0 till we get the public upgrade IT 2006. Since we know Maemo 2.0 would be binary incompatible, the applications cross compiled on the development environment would not run on the current IT 2005 edition (on device) out there, so developers cant really test it on the device. Can't we have at least developer rootfs for Maemo 2.0? But with working multimedia if posible. Opera etc. isn't needed for testing. Thats what is the internal goal to get Maemo 2.0 pre release together with a developer rootfs, with a functionality similar to Maemo 1.1 but upgraded components, new toolchain etc BUT to tell you the truth, its not looking very good, but will post more updates later this week Devesh Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
--- cut --- I suggest removing the application catalog wiki page(s) when IT2006 gets released and fill them with apps that are known to work on IT2006. Or moving it to a page for Applications IT 2005 and add a new one for IT 2006. I vote for this last option. Roberto Peter ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
I recommend that a live cd or similiar would be launched some time in advance. That would allow developers to compile their apps in there and switch their own systems to 2.0 when 2.0 is in final state and 2006 is out. If live cd is hard to make, then a vmware image. Just my 2 cents. urho ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
So we need to come up with the concept of community contrib repository where the 3rd party applications could be uploaded Yes, yes, yes. (Please) Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Devesh Kothari schrieb: What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Very brief: YES! I think Koen is perfectly right that developers should get a chance to cross compile their apps with the new dev-env. Even if not being able to test them on the device directly it will still dramatically shorten the time from release of IT2006 until getting stable apps for the new environment. So I think it is really worth it. Besides it might also be nice for Nokia to get early feedback on the Maemo 2.0 and probably be able to fix minor things. I also think it would be a good policy that the community will always get information first before official press releases ;) Devesh Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts Tel: +49-271-771091-12 Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57250 Netphen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
What do you guys think? Should we try to push out the SB development environment early, even if the developers can test apps on real device? Very brief: YES! I think Koen is perfectly right that developers should get a chance to cross compile their apps with the new dev-env. Even if not being able to test them on the device directly it will still dramatically shorten the time from release of IT2006 until getting stable apps for the new environment. So I think it is really worth it. Besides it might also be nice for Nokia to get early feedback on the Maemo 2.0 and probably be able to fix minor things. Yes, I agree whole heartedly. To have the base platform in place people can test their apps and give feedback that way you can get a much wider testing of the base platform before launch and possibly fix any brown paper bag issues that others may catch. It also allows the app developers to test their apps in the maemo v2 environment so they can get them running in the dev env and just have to do final testing in the live image when it ships to fix any minor issues allowing updated apps to hit the net shortly after the launch. There are certainly some apps that I use constantly that will stop me from directly upgrading to thee IT2006 before they become available. Cheers, Pete ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Hi, I recommend that a live cd or similiar would be launched some time in advance. That would allow developers to compile their apps in there and switch their own systems to 2.0 when 2.0 is in final state and 2006 is out. What's the problem of apt-get installing a new EABI Scrathcbox toolchain + creating a separate target for IT2006 (using that toolchain)? You can have multiple targets in Scratchbox, each with their own CPU architecture, toolchain, software etc... - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 09:51:44AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Or moving it to a page for Applications IT 2005 and add a new one for IT 2006. Like this one: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 :) /me ducks and runs... -- Misha signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
ext Mikhail Sobolev wrote: On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 09:51:44AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Or moving it to a page for Applications IT 2005 and add a new one for IT 2006. Like this one: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 Some thinking here might help :), there have been some proposals about how this application catalogue can be reorganized and managed I for one am looking for a system 1. which is as easy as wiki to add 2. some policy what is acceptable and not acceptable [remember the thread we had about when one of the entry was removed] 3. possiblity to sort/search applications (already thinking about device/maemo/IT SW edition compatible/WIP/testing/stable i.e this application is known to work with Maemo 2.0) 4. some kind of user ranking system (user feedback possibility) 5. some possibility to have top 5 new submitted applications 6. some possibility to have top 5 popular applications More ideas welcomed, lets solve this for a better solution (i dont know if wiki will continue to solve our needs) Devesh :) /me ducks and runs... -- Misha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nils Faerber schreef: Devesh Kothari schrieb: I also think it would be a good policy that the community will always get information first before official press releases ;) The only actual news was integration with gizmo and a commitment to deliver it in june, the rest[2] has been on http://maemo.org/platform/docs/roadmap.html for some time now. regards, Koen [2] and on the debian-arm and maemo-dev mailinglists as well -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEacPgMkyGM64RGpERAmLrAJ9uOeXQlgUrA2Az60TPp3CKZfPp1ACgtMRr fNsiL4rk3M43kBmt5gcPNZY= =5hvJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
I also think it would be a good policy that the community will always get information first before official press releases ;) The only actual news was integration with gizmo and a commitment to deliver it in june, the rest[2] has been on http://maemo.org/platform/docs/roadmap.html for some time now. If you look at the press release it doesn't actually say integration with Gizmo. It says 'can also support SIP based VoIP solutions' and that standalone apps are planned. The full paragraph. The upgraded Internet Tablet software platform can also support SIP based VoIP solutions for broadband business benefit. Standalone software applications, like the popular Gizmo Project by SIPPhone Inc, is planned to be available for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet. The Gizmo Project has a rich feature set including the capability to make and receive calls from public telephony networks. So I think actually shipped with the OS will be gtalk/jabber and then the rest will be available as addons probably provided by the actually SIP companies themselves. Peter ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
Ola, I think some zope/plone solution could be useful here... 1. which is as easy as wiki to add..plone has a product called wicked which provides this behaviour 2. some policy what is acceptable and not acceptable [remember the thread we had about when one of the entry was removed] ...zope it has fine grained permissions with the ability to publish/retract etc 3. possiblity to sort/search applications (already thinking about device/maemo/IT SW edition compatible/WIP/testing/stable i.e this application is known to work with Maemo 2.0) you can search products in plone 4. some kind of user ranking system (user feedback possibility) plone has this 5. some possibility to have top 5 new submitted applications plone has this 6. some possibility to have top 5 popular applications plone has this HTH []'s Ian -- .''`. : :' : `. `'` `- Orgulhoso ser MetaRecicleiro http://manaus.metareciclagem.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers]http://press.nokia.com:80/PR/200605/1051308_5.html
- Forwarded message from Devesh Kothari [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am of the opinion that everyone MUST be advised to upgrade Since - it is a free upgrade - Maintaining Maemo 1.1 and 2.0 which are incompatible is a big problem (proposal is move Maemo 1.1 to archive status) - It just causes confusion if Maemo 1.1 and 2.0 applications start to coexist especially to the end user (Maemo 2.0 Application installer would refuse to install anyway) From the 3rd party developer/Nokia point of view I agree, nobody wants the overhead for now. And all kinds of rough edges are kind of expected at this point, even if everybody is doing his/her best to improve things. From a user PoV I'm doubtful. Current users want the applications, and there would be a plethora of other reasons to be slow in updating. Think about other platform products, like Red Hat, PalmOS, or Symbian, do they only support the latest version as well? I think in the long run you need a process that takes this into account. For this upgrade, I think you'd need a developer release at least 2 weeks in advance for a smooth transition. This could be different things as the critical thing is just a way to test that one's implementation of the new APIs works, as early as possible. A public beta of the production image could be a way to do this but it involves other overhead and would bring other benefits, like feedback from real users, more publicity, etc. If a smooth transition is essential in your mind you could even delay the production release. So we need to come up with the concept of community contrib repository where the 3rd party applications could be uploaded Something like all the repositories you can use with apt-get and sources.list on Debian? That could be ideal but making the maintenance smooth (everything needs to work with everything) is not trivial. Risto ... Luukku Plus paketilla pääset eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista. Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat elämääsi. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
