Re: N900 features
sebastian maemo wrote: Hi everybody: One of my clients has recently asked me about the possibility to get a portable computer like my N770... :-) I've talked him about the N900, and despite the price of the unlocked device, he has asked me to check whether its features would satisfy his needs... I know how N770 works... but I have almost no idea about N900... I have read the full specs at the Nokia website http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications, though I'd like to know whether there's any application that enables a user to open a M$ Office file, (doc or xls type, for example). I think that the answer is no, though that wouldn't be a problem if the PDF reader works well enough... -- Salut, Sebas OpenOffice.org is available for the N8x0 through Easy Debian, but I don't know if it will work with the N900 yet. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/easy-deb-chroot/ Maybe it will be available for the N900 soon? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 features
Peter Flynn wrote: sebastian maemo wrote: Hi everybody: One of my clients has recently asked me about the possibility to get a portable computer like my N770... :-) I've talked him about the N900, and despite the price of the unlocked device, he has asked me to check whether its features would satisfy his needs... I know how N770 works... but I have almost no idea about N900... I have read the full specs at the Nokia website http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications, though I'd like to know whether there's any application that enables a user to open a M$ Office file, (doc or xls type, for example). I think that the answer is no, though that wouldn't be a problem if the PDF reader works well enough... I don't know about the N900, but AbiWord on the N800 has no problem opening .doc and .docx files. And the PDF reader works fine. Abiword doesn't work for me. I can't get it to open anything other than its native proprietary format. I've tried the maemo version, the linux version and the Windows version, all with the same results. Maybe your experience will be different. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
Timo Pelkonen wrote: 2009/12/2 Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie mailto:peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie Timo Pelkonen wrote: Then let the markets decide it instead of your speculation, markets are always right unlike persons. And the Tooth Fairy will still visit you. Markets are easily swayed and perverted. People -- especially experts with good judgment -- are right much more often than markets. ///Peter But even when perverted, markets are still right. Can you buy something at a price that is opposite to market prices(without fraud)? Or does somebody force you to buy overpriced goods against your own will? Didn't you ever notice that people == markets? ps. I'd like to have some sources to your claim that experts are right much more than markets... So you mean that a group of people (experts with good judgement) doesn't make a single mistake in couple years? Lets stop here, this will go straight from maemo-users into economics in 2 seconds. Ossipena / Timo So, if markets are right, you're saying that Windows is far, far better than any other OS out there? That iPhones are by far the best smartphone? Give me a break. The sheep that are the buying public will buy anything that is cool and has the best marketing strategy, regardless of whether it's actually worth anything. The markets are NOT right. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
Marius Vollmer wrote: ext Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. I would change that to Maemo devices. Linux, the kernel, is certainly not to blame for a clogged up user land, and Maemo is so different from any other existing GNU-or-not-GNU/Linux distribution that it is solely responsible for all its shortcomings. (In other words, I only ever reinstall my Debian GNU/Linux OSes when the hardware get replaced, and I run 'unstable' on everything.) Unfortunately, Maemo hasn't had a chance yet to gain real long-term stability. The life-cycle of a Maemo version is too short for that, and there is no continuity between versions. Again, I'm guilty of not being clear enough. I was referring to Linux on handheld devices. Every Linux handheld device that I've been interested in and followed has *required* periodic re-flashes of the OS, either to fix growing instability or to flash a new image that increases stability and/or hardware or software functionality. As for desktop OSs, I would say Linux is on par with Windows: Windows may be slightly (but only slightly) less stable, but has much better hardware support. I haven't had to reinstall Windows (any version) any more than I've had to reinstall Linux. ...And nobody has answered my question: is it even possible to flash updated Windows Mobile images to those devices? Is it done routinely as with Maemo/OpenMoko/etc.? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
Dan Ritter wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 04:17:57PM -0700, Mark wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Henrik Madsen h...@imm.dtu.dk wrote: If you have never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile you are the blind person. Almost all producers of mobile phones are now leaving Windows Mobile and considering Linux devices instead. Are you hired by Microsoft?? Yeah, I'm a Micro$oft fanboy, that's why I run Linux on all my machines... I've never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile because I've never had a Windows Mobile device. What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. That also goes for PalmOS devices, Symbian devices, SX0 devices, etc... PalmOS was patched with ROM reflashes at least twice during the times I was using a Palm Pro, III, IIIx, and at least once when I was using a Treo 700P. -dsr- There was a minor PalmOS patch for my Visor, but it was just an added patch that resided in the user space, not an OS reflash. Flashing the OS on Visors wasn't possible - it was strictly ROM. I didn't notice any difference resulting from the patch, either, so it couldn't have been anything major. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
Qole wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Jeffrey Mark Siskind q...@purdue.edu mailto:q...@purdue.edu wrote: This could be a showstopper for me as it would break my central use case. And I would need to cancel my order and consider buying something else (like a Pandora, Netwalker, or M1/M2). I too would like to see full keyboard support in Maemo 5. But why the threats to buy a competing device? Are you hoping to scare someone into fixing this? It's merely a reminder that consumers need devices that work, and work the way _they_ want them to, not the way that some narrow-minded developer thinks they should work. Consumers are going to go elsewhere in droves if the major shortcomings of the N900 are not addressed. Of course, a few of those are hardware, so you've lost a bunch already... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-10384544-265.html?tag=nl.e703 Finally, a navigation solution for handhelds that really works. As soon as T-Mobile comes out with an Android 2.0 phone that I like, it's sayonara to the piece of crap TomTom I bought a couple of months ago (I'm on the third unit with a defective battery and am not going to bother sending this one in - I'll replace the battery myself - but that's just scratching the surface of all the horrible design problems. I incorrectly assumed that TomTom had been around long enough to figure out how to make a gpsr, but I should have stuck with Garmin) as well as my Nokia tablet that never really did anything well and is now dying an ugly death due to corrupt and probably failing internal flash memory. Maybe this will force the standalone gps manufacturers to bring the map update prices down to something approaching reasonable. Or even run them all out of business, which they so richly deserve after all these years of highway robbery. 95% of the map data they get for free from governments and other free and public sources, at least 4% of it is corrections from their own consumers who have paid dearly for maps, and _maybe_ 1% of it is obtained in-house. And since at least 95% of any given map update is identical to the old map, it's absurd to assert that they have any real financial investment in it. It's a racket very like the printer manufacturers who sell some printers near and sometimes even below cost, but make such extremely high profit margins on the ink and toner that they could give the printers away for free and it wouldn't make any difference. Can you say at least 6000% profit?!?!? (Except the GPS manufacturers are making a very healthy profit on the hardware as well.) Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 Delayed
John B. Holmblad wrote: All, I just happened to find some news from the last day or so concerning delay in the N900 product availability. Here is the url to the Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023?feedType=RSSfeedName=technologyNews Now, does this mean a developer's November, that is, November 30 or a marketing department's November, that is, November 1? ...or a Linux/Maemo November, meaning some time in December you might get the hardware, and about a year later, long before the software is completed, they'll abandon it and introduce a new model... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. It would be different in the same ways the Win7 booklet is different from other windows netbooks, basically styling and the GSM SIM card slot. not that that is unique, but it is distinguishable from most. K But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. Actually, they don't even need to install an OS on it. Just give it to me with an empty HDD and a more attractive price and I'll run with it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE and Pimlico
sean wrote: This is a question of curiosity. In asking for recommendations to substitute the sadly lacking built in contacts tool on the Nokia tablets I seem to have received more nods to GPE tools over the Pimlico tools. As I have tried out both tools, the Pimlico tools are better looking, much more tablet friendly, more polished, and seem much more useful than the GPE tools. At least from my short evaluations so far. I realize these statements are subjective to the user, and wonder if I am missing something else that GPE has over Pimlico? Comments anyone? Thanks Sean I did try Pimlico contacts before settling on GPE, but I'm afraid it's been long enough that I don't remember the details. IIRC it was because the import I needed either wasn't possible with Pimlico or was less successful and lost more of the fields. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE and Pimlico
sean wrote: As I have tried out both tools, the Pimlico tools are better looking, much more tablet friendly, more polished, and seem much more useful than the GPE tools. I have to point out that with the exception of the very last phrase, the rest all applies to the built-in app. Appearances can be deceiving. Slick looks aren't always backed up by functionality... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Peter Flynn wrote: Mark wrote: What's the replacement for the N810? There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. I don't care if they are different inside and run a different OS (assuming they are still Unix-based and not Microsoft :-) What I want is a pocket computer the approximate size and weight of the N800 which does the same stuff, but a bit faster and a bit higher rez and more flexible memory/disk. From what they were saying, they are not going to be *anything* like the current tablets: the form factor is going to be different, and they may even be phones. Don't hold your breath for an updated tablet. Once again, you totally misunderstand and misrepresent my arguments. What I'm saying is that the ITs are marketed to anybody who will buy them, including clueless consumers. (Buy.com is a huge consumer-oriented site, not an obscure company catering to developers...) But Nokia treats them like developer's toys, and doesn't support them the way they should. Nokia is the one that is speaking with forked tongue. I think that's too harsh. I just think Nokia's management was badly misled by Marketing into believing that ITs were a viable concept. Perhaps they were for a brief time. What they missed was the vastly bigger market for pocket computers. That's been my point all along. I bought my N800 because I took the bait and thought it was a consumer-level device because of everything I saw in the sales material. I was duped. I'm sorry to hear that, but caveat emptor. I'm afraid that after 30 years in IT I never believe a word of the sales material, even if it's written by the engineers (the only people you can actually trust). Nokia was for me a trusted name. It's a sad world when you can't trust *anybody*... :-( I like my tablet, but it's turned out to be nothing but a toy. It can do lots of neat things, but in every area it falls just short of fulfilling its potential: I think you said you have an N810. I can't compare directly because I have an N800, and I've never even seen an N810 (and unlikely to here [Ireland] because Nokia just closed down their local store, and they had never seen an N800 until I brought mine in to show them). No, I have an N800. The compromises the N810 made in order to add the keyboard are all showstoppers for me. Unfortunately, I think the upcoming devices are going to be even less what I want. it can display moving maps, but can't actually navigate; I never expected mine to do that anyway. I knew it was theoretically possible, but the processor is wy too slow for mapping apps, the BT-connected satellite receivers are way too expensive, and the data quality of the free maps, even OpenStreetMap, is hopelessly inadequate. I have a perfectly-working TomTom, anyway. Not true. Most dedicated GPSrs have much less powerful hardware than even the N770, and the mapping applications available for the tablets do just fine, they just aren't finished. it can do PIM-like things (after installing third-party apps), I've already described elsewhere the errors made in selecting that particular set of built-ins. But the GPE apps are adequate, although no more than that (the authors need some more experience with usability criteria). I'm using GPE myself, but I've spent 6 months trying to fix the botched data import. There's just no way to reliably import data or specify corresponding data fields. but can't easily and reliably sync all of that data; I don't keep my PIM data anywhere else but the N800 (and backup) so that isn't an issue for me. In nearly three decades of using pocket devices I have never needed or wanted to synch the PIM data with anything else. I have always needed to sync, import and export the PIM data for various mailing lists, etc. Keeping completely separate databases is a huge pain in the keester to manually keep everything in sync. it can do basic text files, It wouldn't be worth using if it didn't. Leafpad is a great replacement for the built-in text editor. but the shipped app uses a proprietary format and it can't open or edit any actual office documents; Same answer as for PIMs: the shipped apps were worthless. AbiWord provides all this and more. It's not the world's most wonderful interface, and it's got bits missing, but it's fine to open and save all the formats I have fed it so far. I have yet to get Abiword to import or export Word or OpenOffice files; all I get is garbage. That's true not only on the tablet but in the desktop versions. Years ago when I first tried Abiword it was much better at that than it is now. Their insistence on using their own unique file format, together
Re: Maps
Stephen Gadsby wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:06 AM, jeremy J Swarm screamin...@gmail.com wrote: I uninstalled Maps and deleted the maps dir on the local storage to free up space. I've since decided to try a number of gps apps, and cannot seem to download usa east maps. Until recently, they were available for download at: http://www.navicoretech.com/Consumer/Support/Downloads/tablet/en_GB/wfnavigator/ However, I'm not able to connect to the site this morning. With luck, it is only a temporary problem. You might try that URL now and again to see. -stephen ___ AFAIK, the Navicore maps only work with the application that ships with the tablets. You don't say what app you're having download trouble with. I've never had any trouble with Maemo Mapper. RoadMap does have some issues with random tiles - there are several gaps in my vicinity that I've never succeeded in downloading. I never really got NavIT to work right, either. I loaded the huge world file, but it only displayed a tiny area. CarMan seems to work very much like Maemo Mapper, but without much of the functionality (as far as navigation goes, anyway). Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Looking for gps logger for n810
Tim Ashman wrote: On Sunday 29 March 2009 10:25:13 am Christoph Eckert wrote: Hi, Another question. I can't seem to add POI's In maemo mapper. Is there another tool that can create a POI from within mapper. at least there's track = add marker. But the feature seems to be broken anyway: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2602group_id=29 atid=185 I do not know of any other application that can record waypoints (and I'm currently playing with some pymaemo code as I'm looking for such a feature as well :). HTH best regards, ce Ok, I'll just have to keep track manually. thanks again tim Waypoints and track points are not the same thing. Maemo Mapper keeps automatic track logs just fine. Waypoints/POIs can be entered by just tap-holding and in the resulting menu click on Tap Point-Add POI... You can then change/adjust the coordinates if needed or even enter coordinates somewhere else completely. That's an easy way to enter custom POIs for any location you choose. RoadMap works similarly. If you're talking about downloading general POIs for an area, Maemo Mapper does a pretty good job of that as well. First select the types you want in main menu-POI-Categories... Then go to main menu-POI-Download... You can also import POIs from files. If you really mean that you want to record tracks as waypoints rather than track points, that's another story. I don't know of any application at all, even for PC, that will do that. It shouldn't be difficult to convert them, though, especially if you are importing the track logs into some other software. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)
James Knott wrote: Ummm... Given that DOS didn't appear until 1981, there's no way Windows could have been around 30+ years ago. That would have been the days of CP/M and Apple II. Sorry, that should have been 20+... 24 to be more precise. Momentary lapse in brain function. Back in the days when Unix was created, virtually all computers were multiuser, because they were too expensive for a single user. The whole idea of multiuser was to get the most use out of that very expensive hardware. It wasn't until personal computers, such as the Altair 8800, IMSAI 8080, Apple II etc. appeared, in the mid '70s that single user computers became affordable. If by multiuser you mean different people could use the same machine at different times, but *not* simultaneously. It wasn't until the '70s that Unix could support simultaneous users, and at first it was limited to two at any given time. It was *not* simultaneously multiuser from the very start. Thus, most everything that can affect Windows today was probably seen and corrected on the architectural level decades ago in Unix. Totally untrue. The issues of concern are mostly related to network access, not multiple logins. See above. Take a look at the history of Windows, to when it was just a graphical shell on top of DOS. And how it then migrated to a better system, but still single user. Can you, even now, multi-task several users on a Windows box, without using something like Citrix? Then take a look at how Microsoft integrated IE into the OS, to make a point after the Netscape vs Microsoft trial. You'll find that one thing alone, which is in violation of good software engineering, ensured Windows would be a security sieve. Windows doesn't need (never has, and never will) to have the capability for simultaneous users. What would be the point? As PCs continue to shrink in size as they increase in power, it makes a lot more sense for everybody to have their own separate computer and not share someone else's. Home networking is a no-brainer if they want or need to share anything. Even the simplest thing of making the user work in a non-privileged workspace is one of the basic things that Unix has done for decades, while it is a relatively new idea in Windows. Thus, if you compromise the workspace, you don't compromise the system. Unix was not designed for personal computers, it was designed for room- and building-filling mainframes and minicomputers for governments, universities and large security-minded businesses. You are comparing apples to oranges. While Linux is Unix-like, it is NOT Unix and has to be much more user-friendly, which Unix is very much not. The owner of a Linux box has to also be the administrator, while a Unix user seldom has to deal with the administration side of it. Any time you design an OS for the masses, there is no escaping the necessity of compromising security for usability and flexibility. Have you actually run either Linux or Unix? Very much of what applies to one applies to the other. While some of the details differ, they are fundamentally the same to use. I first learned Fortran programming in 1982 on a DEC PDP-10, and have worked on Unix systems much more recently than that. I've used Linux at home off and on for 10 years, and almost exclusively used kubuntu on my personal machines for the last 2 years. So yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about, and Unix is a *very* different experience from Linux. As time goes on, the gap widens. Next, you have the fact that to make things really fast in Windows, you have graphics primitives in the kernel. This means that to compromise the entire system, all you need to do is compromise a graphics routine...and as almost everything is graphical in Windows...compromise the Browser, you can own the system...compromise the mail reader, you can own the system...compromise an editor you can own the system...compromise an ERROR MESSAGE, and you can own the system. You're talking theory, and making it sound much easier than it actually is. In reality, such attacks seldom actually work, and they require far more preparation and work than you are willing to admit. Read about what I mentioned re IE and Netscape vs Microsoft. The fact remains that in spite of theories and claims, actual unaided attacks on Windows boxes that are successful are actually quite rare. The ones that are successful are usually because of the gaping security hole between the keyboard and the chair. The so-called holes are exploited in contrived circumstances which are much more difficult to find in the wild. With Unix, very few things can access the kernel. If you compromise the Browser, you may compromise the user's workspace, but the system remains compromised. Again, Linux is *NOT* Unix. Regardless, since no one is putting serious effort into developing viruses and such for it
Re: damaged power connecter
Matt Emson wrote: Fernando Cassia wrote: Which shows newer is not always better... anyone remembers the good old PalmPilot cradles? Not only were those rock-solid, but also it was impossible to break any connectors by pulling hard or by tripping on wires it'd just unplug itself without any damage. Um... showing my age here, but I almost killed myself by tripping over a Palm Pilot Pro serial cable... it broke. The serial cables were designed to be screwed in to the serial port. In the fight between my foot and the cable, the serial connector sheared off. Luckily, the device flew out of the cradle and landed on the carpet face up, else that would have been toast too. The serial cradles also didn't charge the device, though the Palm Pilot Pro use 2 x AAA batteries, so it wasn't hard to keep it running :-) Them was the days!! M I think you're missing the point. The *PC* end is a different story. The *Palm* end doesn't screw in to anything in the handheld. I have a Handspring Visor Deluxe that I still use. In fact, I'm only now (after more than a year of IT ownership) getting my contacts straightened out in my N800 so I can stop carrying the Visor with me. (And even then I'm going to have issues with exporting the data elsewhere.) The Visor cradle doesn't have anything that connects to the Visor in such a way that anything can break in the handheld. The plain cable is different, but even that will break the catches on the cable rather than anything on the device. The point is that cables are relatively cheap and *extremely* easy to replace. Even the serial port connector on your PC can be replaced a lot easier than the power jack in your IT. All connector cables for portable and handheld devices should be designed with that as a top priority. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App-Manager failure
Andrew Flegg wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Ryan Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 24, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Mark wrote: But that's not what we're talking about anyway. The point was who the Tablets are marketed to, not the mailing list itself. At this point in time, no average PDA user is going to have much success with the Tablets without learning a bunch of Linux and getting their hands dirty under the hood. That's hardly consumer-friendly. The tablets aren't really _marketed_ to anybody, as Nokia doesn't actually market them. I've yet to see anybody convincingly back up the claim that a bunch of Linux is required to use the device as advertised, but this argument seems to be made up mostly of emotion, and I've had it more times than I care to remember, so I'm quite certain I know what the result of this one will be. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. My toddler (seen to those of you at the Summit on Saturday - eventually) happily uses the bookmarks menu on an N810, can start Tux Paint, can navigate to his folder of shortcuts and can then navigate the web browser. My wife uses an N810, installs applications, browses the web etc. Neither know any Linux command line incantations. It's not perfect at the moment, but it *is* a lot better than people say. Cheers, Andrew Has either of them tried to flash the tablet? Had an update fail? Frankly, they've just been lucky so far. Sooner or later there's going to be a problem they can't fix, and it's going to be up to you to deal with it. Either that, or they're never going to do an update or upgrade, and could just as well be using a PalmOS device, because they're not using any of the features or apps unique to the tablets. Mark Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On 11/21/08, Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Haury wrote: Everybody who owns one of these tablets is not a developer. according to original poster he was after Kismet. That is not a toy your average user would install. He did know what he was asking for. He did know about etiquette on ML and he should've checked the facts before accusing people. Mark, you didn't help the cause - you've inflamed issue too. Sorry, that's the sad truth. ...except this is not an isolated incident. I've had similar experiences. Sometimes a simple update of one app through App Manager is enough to cause problems. As for reflashing, Chinook is still better than Diablo as far as stability and certain apps working properly. I've had my tablet long enough that it came with Bora, and there were compelling reasons to upgrade to Chinook. The final Chinook upgrade was a nightmare because the backup/restore didn't work and I had to reinstall everything from scratch. The only compelling reason to upgrade to Diablo thus far is the flashless updates, except people have been reporting similar breakage with those... So get off your high horse: these issues affect everybody, including the novices. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Default PIM software
Peter Flynn wrote: Is there anything available in Diablo or OS2008 that uses the camera successfully? (Just curious) The list of apps that I posted before: I've used Camera, GPS-Camera, and Videocamera successfully. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App-Manager failure
Ryan Abel wrote: Yes, upgrade to Diablo, it has a much more useful Application Manager. :) ...and a bunch of other stuff is broken that previously worked... If that's not an option, running apt-get update as root in xterm will give you more verbose errors ...which is fine for advanced users, but not an option for the average consumer end-user. Just getting root access is not trivial. If you're going to sell a device that requires significant Linux knowledge to use, that should be clearly stated in any sales information. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want everybody and their dog to buy the tablets because you want their money, but god forbid they should ever try to actually do anything with them or expect any support... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Default PIM software
Peter Flynn wrote: Is there anything available in Diablo or OS2008 that uses the camera successfully? (Just curious) Er.. you may be referring to networked apps again. I don't know of any. The last time I checked, Skype and Gizmo didn't support the camera. Somebody correct me if that's changed. I can't find anything else. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is the best app to read .doc or .ppt files on N810
Dmitry S. Makovey wrote: Not nitpicking, but trying to point to a possible resolution: you *do* need an active internet connection to receive your mail - so using Goo-Docs doesn't sound like you'd be going out of your way. ...Which is why I mention it. However, email on mobile devices often doesn't require a continuous connection - just transfer messages while you're at a hotspot, then do most of the work offline, then send receive again when you're at another hotspot. If you've downloaded messages that have attachments you can't open, you're out of luck if you're on a train or plane or otherwise without Internet access while you're using the device. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Need feedback on Nokia Internet Tablet and Maemo platform for an academic project
The links have been altered and are not valid. You need to correct the links and retry. You might try http://tinyurl.com/ . Mark manaswi shukla wrote: Hi, As part of interaction design project at University of Michigan, we (a group of 5 students) are designing Organizer for Maemo platform on Nokia Internet Tablet. The efforts are in collaboration with Season of Usabilty. As part of the project, we are collecting data on usage of Nokia Internet Tablet and Maemo platform. We are conducting a small survey on usage pattern of organizers on Internet. We need to collect data soon so that we can start ideating. We will be really greatful, if you can spend few minutes to fill out an online survey. The survey will not take more than 5 minutes. Please follow the links for the online survey- 1. If you have used Nokia Internet Table and Maemo: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...igSXbXYQ_3d_3d 2. If you have used any Organizer on Internet: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...mjv5A8GA_3d_3d 3. If you have used organizers on mobile: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...6lmEvhjw_3d_3d Hope you will be able to help us in our efforts. Please note that the information will be confidential and private and will not be shared with anybody. Thanks and Regards, Manaswi Shukla MSI, School of Information, University of Michigan -- "In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is flash?
Karl Kobel wrote: Jeff Treague wrote: I here alot about flash what is it? Jeff, FLASH is a type of memory that retains its state until changed. One of the characteristics of FLASH are that the bits can only be individually programmed from the 1 state to a 0. In order to get the state back to 1, it must be 'erased' in big chunks. Within the category of FLASH, there are two major types; NOR and NAND. NAND is like non-volatile RAM and is used for program execution. It takes more space to create a bit, so are smaller in size. Not sure, but I don't believe this type is used in the Nokia's. NOR is higher in density, and is the type used in SD cards. Karl I think the flash Jeff is referring to is flashing the OS. That requires a special program on your PC, and an OS image downloaded from Maemo.org. It sounds like it won't fix Jeff's problem, though. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Media Players With Resume?
Aaron Newcomb wrote: Are there any media players that will remember where I left off when listening to an audio or video file after I restart the application? I listen to a lot of podcasts and audio books and get interrupted frequently. It would be a great feature. I have tried most of the players but can't find any that support this feature. Maybe it is a hidden preference that I can set in a conf file somewhere? For video, mplayer continues where you left off after closing and reopening the player, even if you've shut down the whole machine and restarted many times. Apparently it saves the current file and its playing position to disk. I haven't yet found equivalent functionality in an audio player for the tablets. I've certainly enjoyed that feature in the standalone mp3 players that have had it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Postal address in Contacts?
Patrick Ohly wrote:
On Fri, 2008-06-20 at 14:55 -0600, Mark wrote:
You are confusing "convenience" with "flexibility". Syncing can be a
whole lot more *convenient*, once you have it properly set up (which
can be a real bear), but it is in no way as flexible or powerful as
import/export.
True. However, the flexibility that you value so much comes at the
expense of a lot more manual work each time you do an import/export. CSV
has the same problem: it's kind of okay when you manually define your
fields *and* teach your apps what you mean with these fields, but it is
unsuitable for automated data exchange without this upfront
configuration.
You remarked that SyncEvolution is too hard to use because there is no
GUI and one has to edit configuration files. Someone has written a GUI
("Genesis"; implemented in Python, so it might run on Maemo, although I
haven't tried that) and in 0.8 one can also change the config from the
command line. CSV on the other hand requires that you define your own
file format - is that really easier for non-technical people? I'd argue
that syncing is becoming easier to set up than import/export.
You still have not responded to the the main problem, which is that
sync is not and never will be as flexible as import and export, and in
some cases is absolutely, positively impossible. Import and export
*always* works to some extent, as long as you have the patience to keep
looking for a solution. Sometimes it requires jumping through some
hoops, but jumping through hoops (and adequate - as opposed to complete
- data transfer) beats absolute impossibility every time.
Mark
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Re: Postal address in Contacts?
Just a matter of clarification: While I think that the Contacts application that ships with the tablets is pointless, there are two other options that do most of what I need. I'm using gpe-contacts, and I've also tried Pimlico just to see what it's like. Neither properly imported all the fields properly, but they are at least usable. Gpe didn't match the fields properly (which is annoying but not fatal), and Pimlico entered the quote marks in all the fields, which between the two issues is a bigger problem for me. However, if you ignore the import/export issues and limitations, either is adequate for the job. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Postal address in Contacts?
Kevin T. Neely wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 04:34:09PM -0600, Mark wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:41:48AM -0600, Mark wrote: To follow your logic, No, you're most certainly *not* following my logic. My logic is that physical addresses are something that needs to be looked up, whereas I am. Your logic was, "If the tablet does not do X, it does not need to store Y" Well, following that, there is no need to store physical addresses because the tablet cannot send actual, physical mail. It's a stupid permutation but it does follow the logic trail you laid in the earlier e-mail. You are so utterly wrong I don't know where to start. What I said was that there are better alternatives for storing and retrieving the pitiful bits of data that Contacts does store, but that the rather glaring omissions do *not* have any good alternatives. (I don't mean to imply that gpe or Pimlico are not good alternatives to Contact because they certainly are, I mean that a contact-type app is the best place to store street addresses.) If you do have a decent PIM, then yes, it makes sense to store every bit of contact data for that particular person in the same record. But that's the whole point anyway! There's no excuse for there not being a decent PIM out of the box. ...and neither can its owner if they can't find the address... That's just circular, and you know it. If we follow that, then the information it stored you thought was "useless" is not so. A phone number cannot be dialled w/o the owner. Nor an e-mail address. You obviously don't know the meaning of circular reasoning. My point was that if you need someone's mailing address, and can't find it in your tablet because there's no provision for storing that information in it, then the tablet is not doing you any good. You have to know an address or be able to look it up in order to write it on an envelope. As I said before: phone numbers are in the phone, and email addresses are in your email client, so having a Contents app to store *only* those bits of information is redundant and pointless. The app only becomes useful when it does something that you can't get any other way. The tablet is, to me, an electronic communications device. Would I like for *all* my contact information to be in there? Of course, but if we have to pick and choose, then it makes sense to have the information that is immediately useful, like phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and IM addresses (the latter two pretty much the same, heck, with VOIP, all three pretty much the same). Here's the biggest flaw in your argument: if there's already a contacts app with even one field, it's utterly trivial to add more fields, and criminal not to do so. It's not an issue of "picking and choosing". The app exists, it's just deliberately crippled, just like all those crippled locked cell phones out there. Why such resistance to something that is 1) Incredibly easy to solve if you're the original author of the app, and 2) would make the device significantly more attractive to consumers? And here's another flaw in your argument: as a "communications device", one thing that will turn up sooner or later is that you'll need to send someone else's snail mail address to a third party. If that information is not available, then it's not doing its job of communicating very well, is it? Let's see if I've got this straight: you're saying that it's somehow easier to drag out the tablet, start up Contacts, look up the person, make sure you're tethered to your phone with bluetooth, then use the tablet to tell the phone to dial the number, than to simply open the I think this has been addressed, but in short, tethering is simple and seamless in my usage. And, besides, I was really referring to using wi-fi. Not that that matters much. The tablet is meant to be online. The newest version is WIMAX-enabled, which should give a good idea of where Nokia is going with it. A device of the future, always connected. K ...and as I said before, all the VOIP, SIP and what have you clients also have other, better ways to store, add and find their respective contact info. You may be able to send the VOIP client that information from Contacts, but there's no reason to, and once again Contacts is redundant and pointless. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Videocamera (was Re: Newbie to maemo lookig for advice)
GROG! (Jeff Howie) wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anybody working on a video capture app for the tablets? There are at least 3 different still capture programs available, but I haven't seen anything at all for video. Since the built-in camera is pretty low-res, and it supposedly works for Skype video chat, it seems like the hardware is capable. The main one that I know of is videocamera (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/camera/), but even that has sound vs picture sync problems, so it's not perfect. for how developed it is, it does work, so it could at least be considered a proof of concept.. -- GROG! Thanks! That's what I was looking for. For what I have in mind, audio sync isn't critical. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Microb Versus Mozilla Fennec
Tuukka Tolvanen wrote: On 5/10/08, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing I've noticed is that there seems to be some kind of proxy thing going on when I try to go to a Web site: instead of just going directly to the site I selected, there's some sort of "wysiwyg.something" address that shows in the address bar. Is it attempting to show us a WAP page or something before referring the real one? google is somewhat helpful, once you turn off the spellcheck in your goggles ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYCIWYG 't. :-) Thanks for enlightening me. I knew it wasn't quite WYSIWIG, but it doesn't show all the time, and it didn't stay on screen long enough the times I noticed it to catch the correct spelling. I've never seen it show up on any of my other Mozilla installations. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, Once again talking about the hobby developer... ext Jac Kersing wrote: However for a developer, when the software you release becomes a success and is used by a fair amount of users there is no way to keep up with all the messages generated. Reading and answering messages in mail and interacting on forums consumes most if not all the time available. Then development stalls and no bugs get fixed. A developer simply has a limitted amount of time available and needs to make choices. For example when your spouse is once again commenting on your "other, non-paid job" and how it takes time away from your kids, you might not have that much patience with users demands which are unreasonable (to you). If you need to select between your kid vs. a rude user, the decision is really a no-brainer. - Eero There are a couple of issues here regarding "hobby developers". 1. It's becoming clear that part of the problem is that software is being released as public release or even "stable beta" that is really very much alpha. If you're releasing software that is riddled with bugs (or simply insufficient functionality) to a wide audience then yes, you're going to get a lot of questions and complaints. The answer is to keep it quiet until it's ready for the average (clueless) end-user. 2. If it's just a hobby, why are you releasing your software to the public? If you're only doing it for yourself, then keep it to yourself. If you're doing it for others, then you have to accept the fact that they may find serious problems or find that it lacks functionality that is critically important to them. And yes, anyone who tries your software most certainly *is* doing you a favor, *especially* if they find a problem of any sort. You either want others to benefit from your work, or you don't. If you don't, then don't make it available. If you do, then every single person who tries it is spreading the word. If the software works well and meets their needs, then they'll spread the word and the user base will grow. If the software has problems or significant limitations, but they were well treated and got the help they needed, then they will still spread positive word and the user base will grow. If they ask a question or present an account of a problem and get treated poorly (or ignored), they will either not tell anybody else about it or will spread negative word, and the user base will grow very little or not at all and your feedback will dry up. It's up to you. As I've made it abundantly clear, Linux is still a long way from meeting all my needs. And yet, here I am, doing my best to do everything possible within Linux. It is *not* easy. In fact is is very hard. If I wanted easy, I would just stick with Windows, put more money in Micro$oft's - and other closed-source companies' - pockets, and never have the inconvenience of booting into another OS or have a very significant amount of hard drive space taken up by that other OS. Sure, there would be the occasional crash or problem, but in general things in Windows just work. So why am I spending way too much of my time learning and dealing with the problems and inadequacies of Linux? Because I believe in the concept, and I believe in the goals. I'm trying to get to the point where I can evangelize others to the cause. I want to do whatever I can, and am stretching my limited skills and learning new things every day, in order to further the cause in any way that I can. Not because it's easy, convenient or makes my life any easier. Maybe someday I'll reach the point of being a developer myself, and maybe a won't. But one thing I will never forget is what it's like to be on this side of the coin. The bottom line is that yes, I most certainly *am* doing you a favor by spending my time with this, even if I run out of patience sometimes or ask a dumb question from time to time. And we're really on the same side, even if you can't see it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
Kevin T. Neely wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 05:15:38PM -0700, Andrew Daviel wrote: I don't want to create documents, I just want to view PowerPoint. And maybe Word. And maybe**2 Excel. Not all in one huge app. For when I'm at I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? K Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop replacement than it is turning out to be. After all, it's more powerful than my previous desktop, and it did all that stuff. With my SDHC cards installed, the tablet even has almost as much storage. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Reporting Bugs
Mike Lococo wrote: The fundamental error in your logic is that you think your time (and effort) is more valuable than mine. It isn't. Not to be inflammatory... but to the community, Graham's time is in fact much more valuable than yours or mine because he's one of a small number of individuals with the knowledge and desire to write code to fix bugs in GPE. As a someone has submitted GPE bugs in the past, I can say first-hand that Graham will go quite out of his way to diagnose and fix well-formed bug reports. A naked assertion that it doesn't work doesn't help him do that in the least. ...Which is all irrelevant to someone who has time pressures of their own and just needs an app that works, properly, the first time. As someone else mentioned, it takes a lot less time to just uninstall a useless app and try something else than it does to go through the process of bug submission. The bottom line is that if you want people to use your app, it's up to *you*, not them, to debug it. - Steps to reproduce are important. There's nothing a developer can do to fix your problem unless they can observe the failure and diagnose it. - Getting your problem logged in the bug tracker is important. If a developer doesn't have the cycles to deal with your issue today, the tracker will remind them about it tomorrow. - With regard to needing to create an account to submit bugs. This is standard across every project I've ever seen, and is done to prevent the bug database from becoming a useless spam repository. If you have a better solution, speak up. Simply removing the account creation requirement will create a lot of thankless manual spam filtering work and is much more likely to end up destroying the bug database than improving the process end-to-end. This link that Chris just posted: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14178page=4 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14178page=4 indicates that my experience is far from unique, and there's plenty of information there to reproduce the problem. As for the bug submission process, I already said how that could be made a lot easier without appreciably increasing spam. All the bugzilla process has to do is verify that the original submission is from a valid email address. A full account creation process is big-time overkill. For future reference, the mozilla bug-writing guide is a good reference for how to submit bugs that will get read and acted on: I can not properly express how wrong-headed and arrogant it is to demand that people take that kind of time and go to that amount of effort to report a problem, especially when often even if they had the time and energy to do it they don't have the necessary background or skills. Coupled with the very negative experiences I've had with every single bug I've ever submitted in that manner, it's really not worth anyone's time. The reason I have so little patience with it now and have such a negative tone is because of how I've always been treated in the past. I started out very polite and agreeable. I'm done with that. This attitude that every user should be both an expert and a debugger is exactly why Linux isn't gaining much ground on the other OSs. If you want people to submit to submit bugs, you have no choice. Either make it quick and easy and treat them with respect, or you won't get many submissions. It's really that simple. Finally, messages on how to submit good bugs are often misinterpreted to imply that users somehow owe developers good bugs, which isn't the case. Good bug reports often result in improved software, grousing about how bad the software is generally doesn't. It's up to you to determine the outcome you want and act accordingly. On the contrary, it's up to the developers to treat people with respect who are *trying* to use their product and making an effort to report problems. Demanding that every user be an expert and go into excruciating detail is neither realistic nor reasonable. I'm going to throw your own line back at you: It's up to you to determine the outcome you want and act accordingly. Negative treatment of people gets negative results. The other thing you have to take into account is that if somebody is going to the trouble to mention a bug, it's because they've already experienced a negative situation and are quite justified in being upset. In other words, the negativity began not with them, but with *you*. If you can't ignore their tone and just deal with the problem, then you have no right at all to demand the same of them. Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with anyone. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Fwd: Garnet VM PIM]
Jörgen Scheibengruber wrote: On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 19:06 +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, Maybe you could comment on the addressbook to this poor maemo user? :-) - Eero email message attachment (Garnet VM PIM) Forwarded Message From: ext Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Maemo Users maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Garnet VM PIM Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:26:30 -0600 [...] The Garnet VM is of no use to me if I can't use it to access my Palm address book. (That's also my #1 gripe with the Nokia tablet, by the way - there's yet to be any app for it that can sucessfully import my contacts in *any* format, including multiple-entry vCard and .csv.) What's wrong with the shipped addressbook? It should be able to import multiple-entry vcards and .csv just fine? If it doesn't work for you, it would be cool if you could provide samples of the data that doesn't work for you? (Create some "ghost" contacts, don't send your private data ;-)) HTH, Jörgen I need *all* of the fields in my current address book to transfer, not just name, email phone. The built-in Contacts app can't do that. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
Peter Bart wrote: Hi Everyone, I feel compelled to say that I use the GPE apps on my Nokia every single day and have no major problems with it. I migrated from a Palm several years ago, not w/o a few growing pains but nothing major. I am not a computer person but I can follow directions. Does that make me a power user? You decide. I have found the developers, bugzilla, this list and ITT forum most tolerant and helpfull for a person not only new to Linux; at the time; but the Nokia as well. I don't do things the way I used to, I learned different convention, and found ways to give back in some small ways. Is GPE on the Maemo platform for everyone? Probably not. However, please place me firmly in the column of a happy user of not only GPE, but Leafpad, Xournal, Claws, Doc Reader, SpotYah, all the cool games, Maemo Recorder, and so on and on. Please do not be upset if I didn't mention your project by name. I most likely use it and like it! stepping off the soapbox I have to say that the critical deal killer for me is that even though it may be possible to jump through a few hoops and *import* data into gpe, there doesn't seem to be any way to *export* it back out. I would be a lot more willing to put more effort into getting my data into gpe if I was sure of a reasonably easy way of not only backing it up, but moving/copying it into other apps as needed. As I tend to do that a lot, ease of import and export is a very big deal for me. What I'm saying is that for me, it's not a matter of a one-time import and then I'd be done. It would be a constant process of import and export, and therefore those processes are critical to whether or not it's worth it to me to use the app. For me, the ideal import/export method is csv files. I never had a problem with import or export with either my Visor Deluxe (Palm OS) or my Psion Series 5. It was always quick, painless and accurate. And no, syncing is not the answer. I need to be able to work with the data much more directly than that. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Michael Wiktowy wrote: TANSTAAFL Expecting someone to put the bit of effort into detailing their problems is the smallest price to pay to have them fixed. Bug tracking software allows the developers to be a lot more efficient at staying on top of diagnosing issues than juggling a bunch of unstructured, vague, ranty emails. The fact that you have to do some email validation/registration process (similar to signing up for a mailing list) and you can't just reply back to the bug tracker via email is an unfortunate consequence of our spam-infested Internet. It may seem reasonable if you only consider a single bug in a single application, but that's not the real world scenario. What is actually happening is that the developers have the easy side of the bugzilla process, and they're only dealing with the one bugzilla, while the average user is dealing with bugs from a bunch of different apps at once. Don't try and tell me that's not valid. I found it deeply ironic that the OP complained about developers not valuing his time while completely disregarding the value of the developer's time by transferring the entire burden of mind-reading/diagnosing/fixing onto the developer while the OP got to vent his spleen in a cathartic insulting email. That is not an entirely equitable trade. Yeah, well, in my experience it's more often the *developer* who starts off with the rude RTFM and sarcastic comments, not the person reporting the problem. Usually the person who has run across the problem is simply asking a question. The rant comes *after* they get mistreated... As some guidance from someone who doesn't think registering to a bugzilla as an insurmountable burden (and to try to steer this thread on a productive course), some of the things that, in my opinion, would be important to see in this bug report (and why they are important) would be : - What software was used to produce the multi-contact vcards? In my case it was Palm Desktop on Windows XP (which I had to boot specifically for that process - I almost never boot Windows anymore), although when that failed I tried some other converters I found online, still to no avail. While it's *possible* that the Palm Desktop creates malformed vCard files, it's a pretty mature app at this point and therefore unlikely. Even if it is the culprit, it's also a very strong candidate for making allowances in the importing app's procedures. That may not be technically right, but in the real world it's wise. (possible buggy production of vcard file in which case you can only expect GPE to not die on garbage input) - What OS was the vcard file produced on? (possible issues with parsing different end-of-line characters among other things) Everything I was ever taught about programming was to take such cases into consideration and automatically deal with them gracefully. Especially if you're dealing with importing data, it's a no-brainer to automatically handle such elementary issues as the differences between the text file formats of the common OS's (and their built-in text editors). Choking on something that obvious is unforgivable. - A test case, aka simplified sample, of the vcard file that is causing the issue. (would be able to quickly determine if it was bad input, bad parsing, special character encoding, etc.) This is a lot more work than you think. Especially with regard to contact information, you're often dealing with *very* sensitive information, and therefore are not at liberty to supply the original file. That means that coming up with an example test case involves creating a complete new source. That's not nearly as easy or reasonable as you make it sound. - When the issue started or has it been there from day-one? (to determine if it was a regression in recent changes to quickly pin-point the source of the bad code) A perfect example of how the heck am I supposed to know that? I just installed gpe, and just tried the import. There's absolutely no way for me to know how long the bug has existed, and no reason that I should anyway. - What hardware/OS is GPE being used on? (to see if the developer has the right platform to test the fix or has to rely on the user to test it) N800, OS2008 #2 (the latest, although the situation was the same with OS2008 #1). Hopefully the OP can fill in these gaps because no one else can. /Mike I answered these questions in good faith, and I know that there's someone on the list who can make use of the information. I'm not going to bugzilla with it, though. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
Peter Bart wrote: On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 10:13 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: I have to say that the critical deal killer for me is that even though it may be possible to jump through a few hoops and *import* data into gpe, there doesn't seem to be any way to *export* it back out. I'm not sure about what's going wrong for you, I imported my data several years ago w/o any problems. 300 plus individual entries as one file. I edited my vcf file manually with Kate on my kubuntu system, replaced the two umlauted characters with plain characters, and the file successfully imported. The success is muted, however, by the fact that most of the fields are mixed up, and some weren't imported at all. For example, only the phone and name were put in the "Home" fields, and the state was put before the city in the addresses. I would be a lot more willing to put more effort into getting my data into gpe if I was sure of a reasonably easy way of not only backing it up, There's a built in backup utility from Nokia that backs up the GPE directories. You can use rsync to "backup" your home directory to another drive, memory card, etc. Last but not least you can also simply copy the GPE directories to another location. I completely screwed up my explanation on this one. What I meant was that I want to be able to specify the working directory and keep all my data in an easily found and copied directory on one of the SDHC cards, where it's completely safe from reflashes and easily copied and transported to other machines/drives. but moving/copying it into other apps as needed. As I tend to do that a lot, ease of import and export is a very big deal for me. What I'm saying is that for me, it's not a matter of a one-time import and then I'd be done. It would be a constant process of import and export, and therefore those processes are critical to whether or not it's worth it to me to use the app. I don't need that kind of functionality the way you do. So far I I've used load applet to take a screenshot of a specific entry and send that off. For me, the less I move my data around, the more time I have to do real work. For me, moving my data around *is* what I need to do. I use the data in different ways, with different apps, most of which don't understand vcf files but all of which do understand csv files. For me, the ideal import/export method is csv files. ok I never had a problem with import or export with either my Visor Deluxe (Palm OS) or my Psion Series 5. It was always quick, painless and accurate. Then by all means use those devices. Unfortunately, I dropped the Visor recently, and the screen is dying. The Psion wasn't well supported even when it was new, and while it's a great gadget, it only has a 10MHz processor, and is completely incapable of any kind of networking. Between the two, the Visor is more portable and versatile, but as I said, it's dying. Anyway, yours is not a very helpful comment. Both devices are more than 10 years old, and while highly capable as address books and for playing games, are pretty much obsolete for any other purpose. When I bought the Nokia, I (quite reasonably) assumed that it would have a decent PIM. Much less powerful and much more inexpensive units have very capable PIMs (come on, even my 10-plus-year-old Visor and Psion have better PIMs!). There's really no excuse for Nokia not porting Kontacts or Evolution or some other full-featured Linux PIM. I probably would have got an eee PC instead if I had known: the form factor of the Nokia isn't been nearly as much of an advantage without that particular functionality. And no, "syncing" is not the answer. I need to be able to work with the data much more directly than that. I'm not sure I understand. I can sync GPE to Evolution, Schedule World, Google, etc and work with the data from there. You don't get much more direct than that. Why wouldn't you want a matching set of records on another device? I had mine set up to sync to Evolution once, from there I can save, email, etc individual or multiple contacts as I need. The Nokia is a great device but it is limited when compared to my notebook. Each in it's place. I don't use Evolution, Schedule world, or Google. I use Access and up until now my Visor. I've been trying for a long time to migrate my Access databases to OOo Base, but it can't import tables or csv files any more than gpe can, and when connecting to the original Access database can't deal with any of the other database objects at all. Its report formatting is also incredibly limited at this point. (In my opinion, Base is still alpha level software, utterly unlike the rest of the suite.) If anybody can point me to a different cross-platform (mainly Windows and Linux, but Mac would be a plus) database that has most of the power an
Re: BECOMEROOT
sebastian maemo wrote: That's fucking nonsense. There's a chaos in deb packages maintaining and distribution... It's obviously Nokia's fault... Or maybe it's my fault because I've bought a Nokia 770 without getting first a master degree in computer science... (is that what Marius means in his PD??). I think that I'll be able to get my 770 booting again from MMC, but this kind of things should never happen. At least to a simple end user... Right on all counts except one: it's not Nokia's fault. It's Linux in general. It is absolutely absurd that there are thousands of flavors of Linux out there, and none of them are compatible with each other. Anything you learn in one Linux distribution is nearly useless in another, because they've rearranged the file system, or used a slightly different name for something, or didn't see fit to include some critical driver or other dependency in the kernal or installation. Even when they are based on a common major distribution, the differences end up being critical. And don't get me started on the different methods of package management or the difficulty of compiling installing anything that didn't come with the distribution. The word you used was exactly appropriate: chaos. The day that Linux distributions stop fighting each other and start working together, Linux will immediately take over the world. Until then, Linux will never be a serious threat to the closed OS's. No matter how user-friendly they make the install process or the basic included software, the extreme difficulty of adding functionality is just way too far beyond even the moderately savvy computer user's ability. I've even programmed on Unix/Linux systems (and made top marks in every one of those courses), and I *still* can't get the simplest program compiled and installed. That said, at least Nokia went with one of the more common distributions on which to base its system: debian. It could have been a whole lot worse. And the differences from full debian systems were necessary because of space, power and other constraints related to cramming what is fundamentally a whole computer into a tiny handheld unit. But I'm right there with you on the frustration level... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Bluetooth keyboard?
Unfortunately, they are apparently sold out, and I can't find another source for either the keyboard or the USB adapter. I need one of those USB adapters more than anything else. It's critical for using host mode. I've been considering splicing a couple of cables together, but it would be nice to just have the little adapter. Mark Luca Olivetti wrote: En/na Mark ha escrit: But if I could find something the size of my IR keyboard for a reasonable price that's compatible, I'd jump at it. You can check this one: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18034 It's usb and it seems too small to me, but for the poster seems to work fine. Bye ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Bluetooth keyboard?
Mike Klein wrote: Some of the locking/folding keyboards used to have problems with providing stable surface (they flexed)...and I think many have solved this early issue. This used to be only reason to ignore folding style. Something coming soon that looks kinda cool is the credit-card sized (bluetooth) keyboard from Freedom Input...supposed to be produced in march...but they've been hyping this for past year I think. http://freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=13Itemid=30 http://freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=13Itemid=30 If I have 2 thumbs free I could bang away hard on this little suckaN800 or folder keyboard could be better for 'longer' typing stints I guess. mike Thanks, but that's too small. I want something I can touch-type on. This one would save the touch-screen from overuse, but so would the larger keyboards. I can use the on-screen keyboard just as fast as I would be able to use this one, especially with the predictive text that the on-screen keyboard does. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Navit in n810
Alfredo J. Fabretti wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Alfredo J. Fabretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like a truly "killer app", as it uses vector maps rather than converting everything to raster as Maemo Mapper does. However, I can't get it to build and install, and the documentation is currently extremey thin. Mark Hello, you can find the packages here: http://www.tecdencia.net/navit/ Thanks! I installed libgarmin, but unfortunately there seems to be something wrong with the NavIT download link; I get this message: "Not Acceptable An appropriate representation of the requested resource /navit/downloads/navit-cvs20080313.deb could not be found on this server." How hard is it to build and package these? Would it be an imposition to ask for a step-by-step? I tried to build NavIT but got stuck with some errors. I probably didn't know enough to properly set all the options in the config files. The reason I'm asking is that if I can see what I did wrong with this, it may help me build other apps in the future. Thanks, Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Audio connection noise - NOT SOLVED! [was: Audio connection problem]
Luca Olivetti wrote: En/na Mark ha escrit: From the sound of it, though, I'm the only one having this problem, which leads me to believe that the problem is more serious, and that it's a defect in my particular unit. That's a possibility, yes. It's also possible that I don't notice the problem because I'm not really an audiophile (but I'm usually sensible to noise anyway). Maybe the circuitry that turns off the the loudspeakers and switches the output to the headphone jack when a plug is inserted isn't fully switching over, and the hanging output is what's causing the problem. This is probably a stupid suggestion, but are you sure you fully inserted the plug in the socket? I remember that I had horrible sound with the headphones, but that's only because I didn't push the plug hard enough for fear of breaking my tablet. Bye That isn't a stupid suggestion, because it *is* a little difficult to insert the plug that last little bit. I occasionally have to try again because I didn't push it in firmly enough. However, that isn't the problem. I did find out that the problem doesn't exist with the fmradio system. I compared them back to back last night, and there was no noise with the radio. I don't know how the hardware is routed - if the fmradio has its own separate audio system then it points to a hardware issue, but if it goes through exactly the same audio system as the media player then it points to a software bug. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Audio connection problem
My N800 sounds great through the headphones, but if I try plugging it into a line input on _any_ other device, it sounds like crap. I've tried the line-in on my truck, my home amp, an AV distribution amplifier and my 900 MHz wireless headphones transmitter. In addition to the noise during silence (but while the audio system is active), the same kind of noise also continues to a slightly lesser (but still completely intolerable) extent while sound is playing. The one exception is with a cassette adapter - the sound level is low, but the noise is gone. Apparently it has something to do with either the output levels or extreme sensitivity to impedance mismatch or both. I'm extremely disappointed, as I have two 8GB memory cards installed, and was looking forward to using it as a jukebox in my vehicles, but that's a no-go until I can find some way to work around this problem. I've upgraded the firmware twice, from 2007 to the first 2008 and now to the latest 2008, and there's no difference between any of them. I think this may be a hardware issue rather than software. Has anyone else noticed this problem, and if so, have you found a reasonable solution? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
