Re: [Mailman-Users] Customizing mailman to maintain history of unsubscriptions.

[Brad Knowles]

On 5/29/08, Bob001 wrote:


 How can we customize mailman to ensure that un-subscriptions are
 automatically recorded.


They already are.  They're recorded in /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe.


 Once recorded, we also intent to customize subscribe function to
 automatically ensure that they don't get re-subscribed.


You need to make sure you understand why they're unsubscribed, 
however.  If you get unsubscribed due to excessive bounces caused by 
a short-term problem at  your ISP, should this prohibit you from ever 
being subscribed again?


And the automatic bounce handling system of Mailman is just one of 
many factors to consider.



 Any suggestions? Any patch available to achieve this functionality?


Check the patch system on sourceforge, but I would doubt it.

The key is going to be fully and completely understanding any of the 
various different reasons why a user was unsubscribed and putting 
that into the database, and knowing which of those kinds of 
transactions could be reversible and under what circumstances.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Larry Stone]

On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each
>> Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers.
> 
> VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with
> Return-Path and Sender:   ;-)

With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" becomes
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]".

I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need
"recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the plus signs
in the return paths.

When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list
recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the
Return-Path.

As you have observed, the original message-ID is still preserved.

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


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[Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Dov Oxenberg]

Good morning,
Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then suddenly, 
mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason.
It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..." and citing 
some IP address which is invalid for my system.  I have not been able to get 
anywhere since Wednesday night and am now considering uninstalling Postfix and 
then reinstalling.
I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the 
consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates to 
Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman installation, will 
I need to reinstall, etc.
Thanks!
Dov
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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Charles Marcus]

On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote:

Good morning,
Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then
suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is
failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..."


Sounds like you have a problem with your NIC...


citing some IP address which is invalid for my system.  I have not
been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now
considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling.


What have you done to try to remedy the situation? I am on the postfix 
list, and have not seen a single message from you about the problem. 
They are very knowledgeable people there - but you will need to be very 
specific with your problem description, and provide postconf -n output 
and logs of the errors...



I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the
consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates
to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman
installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.


Reinstalling would be silly at this point. Fix the problem. From your 
vague description, it sounds like a hardware problem.


Things never break 'for no reason'...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Dov Oxenberg]

Hi Charles,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
The reason my description is "vague" is because I was reluctant to post details 
of a Postfix problem to the Mailman list.
Mailman is running fine...I can log in to the Web interface, manage my list, 
users etc., and obviously Apache is running as well.
I looked on postfix.org but did not see anything regarding a mailing list.
Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or address where I can 
subscribe?
Regards,
Dov



> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:13 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
> mailman-users@python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > 
> On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > Good morning,> > Until Wednesday 
> night my Server was running like a champ then> > suddenly, mysteriously, 
> Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is> > failing to start reporting "no 
> local interface found for..."> > Sounds like you have a problem with your 
> NIC...> > > citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have 
> not> > been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now> > 
> considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling.> > What have you done 
> to try to remedy the situation? I am on the postfix > list, and have not seen 
> a single message from you about the problem. > They are very knowledgeable 
> people there - but you will need to be very > specific with your problem 
> description, and provide postconf -n output > and logs of the errors...> > > 
> I real!
 ize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the> > consequences 
of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates> > to Mailman - do I 
need to do anything with my existing Mailman> > installation, will I need to 
reinstall, etc.> > Reinstalling would be silly at this point. Fix the problem. 
From your > vague description, it sounds like a hardware problem.> > Things 
never break 'for no reason'...> > -- > > Best regards,> > Charles> 
--> Mailman-Users mailing 
list> Mailman-Users@python.org> 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Dov Oxenberg]

Never mind, I found it.
Please forgive the faux pas.
Dov



> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org> 
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:57:27 -0400> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 
> re-install postfix?> > Hi Charles,> Thanks for your prompt reply.> The reason 
> my description is "vague" is because I was reluctant to post details of a 
> Postfix problem to the Mailman list.> Mailman is running fine...I can log in 
> to the Web interface, manage my list, users etc., and obviously Apache is 
> running as well.> I looked on postfix.org but did not see anything regarding 
> a mailing list.> Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or address 
> where I can subscribe?> Regards,> Dov> > > > > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 
> 07:44:13 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mailman-users@python.org> 
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov 
> Oxenberg wrote:> > Good morning,> > Until Wednesday night my Server was 
> running like a champ then> > suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no app!
 arent reason. It is> > failing to start reporting "no local interface found 
for..."> > Sounds like you have a problem with your NIC...> > > citing some IP 
address which is invalid for my system. I have not> > been able to get anywhere 
since Wednesday night and am now> > considering uninstalling Postfix and then 
reinstalling.> > What have you done to try to remedy the situation? I am on the 
postfix > list, and have not seen a single message from you about the problem. 
> They are very knowledgeable people there - but you will need to be very > 
specific with your problem description, and provide postconf -n output > and 
logs of the errors...> > > I real!> ize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted 
to ask what are the> > consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling 
as it relates> > to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing 
Mailman> > installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.> > Reinstalling would 
be silly at this point. Fix the problem. From your > vag!
 ue description, it sounds like a hardware problem.> > Things never bre
ak 'for no reason'...> > -- > > Best regards,> > Charles> 
--> Mailman-Users mailing 
list> Mailman-Users@python.org> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Charles Marcus]

On 5/30/2008 8:04 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote:

Never mind, I found it.
Please forgive the faux pas.


No worries... hope you get it sorted...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail

[Melinda Gilmore]

Thank you for the information Brad. 

-Original Message-
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 5:54 PM
To: Melinda Gilmore
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

> Is there any mailman setting that you would need to verify if you were
going
> to shut the server down, to make sure mail is queued.   We use postfix
with
> mailman 2.1.6

No, there is no such setting.

Postfix should queue everything it can't deliver to Mailman and refuse to
accept any more mail if it's own local queues are full, and the remote end
should then queue the messages.  Anything that can be delivered to Mailman
while the Mailman queue runners are shut down will be put into a Mailman
queue, to be processed once Mailman comes back up.

There's queues all over the place.

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and mailman-developers mailing lists

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[David Newman]

On 5/30/08 4:35 AM, Larry Stone wrote:

On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each
Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers.

VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with
Return-Path and Sender:   ;-)


With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" becomes
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]".

I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need
"recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the plus signs
in the return paths.


ACK. Yes, that's in main.cf.



When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list
recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the
Return-Path.


I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too:

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining.

But...this might be something. The next message header contains an ESMTP 
ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog:


Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com 
[172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id 
MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400
Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com 
[666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id 
MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400

Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0
for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 - (UTC)


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog

May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0: 
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: 
from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=13344, 
nrcpt=1 (queue active)


Given the above, is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the subscriber that's complaining? 
Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first?


many thanks

dn

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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Dragon]

Dov Oxenberg sent the message below at 04:32 5/30/2008:

Good morning,
Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then 
suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason.
It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..." 
and citing some IP address which is invalid for my system.  I have 
not been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now 
considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling.
I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the 
consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it 
relates to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing 
Mailman installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.

 End original message. -

I can't help with the postfix issues but I would suggest that on the 
mailman side of things that you shut down mailman until you get 
things fixed and then restart it afterward. I doubt you will have to 
do anything to it, but it can't hurt to be cautious.


Dragon

~~~
 Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Larry Stone]

On Fri, 30 May 2008, David Newman wrote:

> > When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list
> > recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the
> > Return-Path.
>
> I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too:
>
> Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hmmm. I had one as recently as 5/15 and Return-Path was not touched nor
some of the other places the address appears. It is frustrating that AOL
wants to stop the unwanted e-mail but tries to make it difficult to figure
out who is complaining.

Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:02:11 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Client TOS Notification

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com
[172.18.205.146]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id
MAILINYC44-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:43 -0500
Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (albion.stonejongleux.com
[66.92.131.28]) by rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id
MAILRELAYINYC32-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:33 -0500
Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DAC2A5C24F
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:32 -0600 (CST)
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from [192.168.1.72] (unknown [192.168.1.72])
by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2312A5C1F1
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:27 -0600 (CST)
...
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-AOL-IP: 66.92.131.28
X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n
X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : +
X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version)

> So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining.
>
> But...this might be something. The next message header contains an ESMTP
> ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog:
>
> Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com
> [172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id
> MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400
> Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com
> [666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id
> MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400
> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>   by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0
>   for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 - (UTC)
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog
>
> May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0:
> client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
> May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0:
> message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0:
> from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=13344,
> nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
> Given the above, is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the subscriber that's complaining?
> Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first?

I think so. With personalization on, Mailman is generating a separate
e-mail for each user which passes through Postfix as separate messages
with a unique ID in Postfix. Without personalization, Mailman could pass
as few as one message to the MTA and let the MTA split it into all the
destinations. With personalization, the message for each user comes to the
MTA as a separate message. One of the tradeoffs of personalization is the
increased workload for Mailman and the MTA.

-- Larry Stone
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[David Newman]

On 5/30/08 8:40 AM, Larry Stone wrote:

On Fri, 30 May 2008, David Newman wrote:


When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list
recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the
Return-Path.

I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too:

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Hmmm. I had one as recently as 5/15 and Return-Path was not touched nor
some of the other places the address appears. It is frustrating that AOL
wants to stop the unwanted e-mail but tries to make it difficult to figure
out who is complaining.


Indeed. I got my case escalated, and at first the AOL postmaster was 
responsive, but I haven't heard back since pointing this out a few days ago.



Given the above, is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the subscriber that's complaining?
Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first?


I think so. With personalization on, Mailman is generating a separate
e-mail for each user which passes through Postfix as separate messages
with a unique ID in Postfix. Without personalization, Mailman could pass
as few as one message to the MTA and let the MTA split it into all the
destinations. With personalization, the message for each user comes to the
MTA as a separate message. One of the tradeoffs of personalization is the
increased workload for Mailman and the MTA.


Initially I thought the changes I made to mailman would result in a 
unique Message-ID per recipient, but this does not appear to be the case.


For future reference, are these the only mailman change needed to get 
unique ESMTP IDs?


1. in mm_cfg.py, add "OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes"

2. enable personalization for the list in the Web UI

If so, that may be "good enough" to catch who's complaining.

thanks much

dn

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[Mailman-Users] archives

[Melinda Gilmore]

Is there a way to automate deletion by size of archives through mailman.
Has anyone done that out there.  I want to delete any archives that have
grown large in size by date preferrably.

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953

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Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?

[Brad Knowles]

Dov Oxenberg wrote:


 I have not been able to get
anywhere since Wednesday night and am now considering uninstalling
Postfix and then reinstalling.


This sounds like a configuration problem.  Uninstalling and then 
re-installing the software isn't going to help you fix a configuration 
problem.  You need to actually fix the configuration problem, in order to 
fix the configuration problem.


Hopefully, you've got an automatic backup system that keeps copies of all 
your configuration files in SCCS, RCS, CVS, Subversion, Bazar, or some other 
sort of versioning system, so that you can just pull out the latest 
configuration files you know are correct and then restore those.


If not, you may have quite a bit of work ahead of you, but uninstalling and 
reinstalling the software is not likely to help.



I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I
wanted to ask what are the consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then
reinstalling as it relates to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my
existing Mailman installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.


As far as Mailman is concerned, I don't think there's any impact.  Not 
unless you used a package installation mechanism that would remove 
everything that depends on postfix (including Mailman), when you go to 
remove postfix.  If that were to happen, you'd be seriously screwed.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Brad Knowles]

David Newman wrote:

Given the above, is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the subscriber that's complaining? 
Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first?


Since you're now sending just one message for each recipient, you will get 
unique queue ids assigned by your MTA for each and every message, and most 
MTAs will record those in the "Received:" headers.  You seem to have found 
what looks like a unique queue id from postfix, and that should lead you to 
one and only one message.


You might also get unique message-ids if you're doing Full Personalization, 
but that shouldn't be necessary in this case.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] archives

[Brad Knowles]

Melinda Gilmore wrote:


Is there a way to automate deletion by size of archives through mailman.


Not with the standard software we ship, no.


Has anyone done that out there.  I want to delete any archives that have
grown large in size by date preferrably.


Check the patches page on SourceForge to see if anyone has uploaded a script 
to do that sort of thing.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

David Newman writes:

 > Initially I thought the changes I made to mailman would result in a 
 > unique Message-ID per recipient, but this does not appear to be the case.

Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the
Return-Path.  Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC
2822.  Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author
header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it.  There is
a Resent-Message-ID that Mailman can set, but I don't know if that
would get returned by AOL.

Something has to be done to throw some of the burden back on these
ISPs.  I wonder if something along the lines of a monthly message like

To our valued AOL subscribers:

Because AOL's [privacy policy] has the inadvertant side effect of
[making it impossible to determine who wants out], while their
[unwanted mail policy] means that failure to address these
complaints causes AOL to [refuse our mail to you], we have adopted
a policy of [continuous opt-in].

Your address will be automatically be set to no-mail in our
database at TIME-DATE-ONE-WEEK-FROM-NOW.  To continue receiving
our notices, please visit [your personal page] and renew your
subscription at any time.  You may wish to check the [archives of
past messages] in case you missed any.

[Yes, keep sending me NAME-OF-LIST.]

Sincerely yours,
Da Management

might make the point.  (The brackets [] show location of links to
pages whose intended content should be clear.)  To make this minimally
annoying to the subscriber, there could be one-click links, and the
resubscription interval could be per-user-configurable (with the
default being every 15 minutes for AOLusers to ensure that they don't
receive any unwanted posts).

Obviously this isn't going to work very well if you have a newsletter
that is primarily of benefit to you for advertising etc, while the
clients put marginal value on it.  So it's just an idle daydream

There might be something to the continuous opt-in idea with
appropriate support from Mailman, though, as that would provide
evidence that the user is being a jerk by hitting the spam button,
when they could just let the subscription lapse.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Jonathan Dill]

On May 30, 2008, at 11:00 AM, David Newman wrote:


On 5/30/08 4:35 AM, Larry Stone wrote:

On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>

wrote:
Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still  
associating each

Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers.

VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with
Return-Path and Sender:   ;-)

With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" becomes
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]".
I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need
"recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the  
plus signs

in the return paths.


ACK. Yes, that's in main.cf.


When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list
recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't  
touch the

Return-Path.


I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too:

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining.

But...this might be something. The next message header contains an  
ESMTP ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog:


Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com  
[172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id  
MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400
Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com  
[666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id  
MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400

Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0
for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 - (UTC)


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog

May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0:  
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: message- 
id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>, size=13344, nrcpt=1 (queue active)


Given the above, is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the subscriber that's  
complaining? Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got  
listed first?


Ostensibly, AOL does this to prevent listwashing, but it's not exactly  
helpful.  I think AOL strips out a lot of the message headers in the  
TOS reports, so you don't get all of the Received headers and message- 
ids.  How I dealt with it is that I made a custom footer in the VERP  
configuration that says something like:


This e-mail was delivered to foobar at aol.com

I suppose that it would be better if you could somehow stick that in  
to a hash that only you could decipher, especially if AOL decides at  
some point to strip all e-mail addresses out of the messages, but it's  
better than nothing.


That shows up in the TOS messages, I stuff them all into a mailbox and  
then have a script that grabs the addresses from the footer and  
unsubscribes those addresses.


I also got some good advice I think from someone on this list to put a  
"gentle reminder" at the top of each message with the unsub links etc  
right there.  It says something like "You are receiving this message  
because you subscribed to the blah blah newsletter on the example.com  
website."


Also, maybe you are already doing this, but a gentle reminder for you  
that may help with these AOL reports, you should absolutely require  
people to confirm their subscription and not just add them to the  
mailing list, even if they provided their e-mail address some other  
way for example filled out a comment card at an event.  If people  
can't be bothered to confirm their subscription, then they can't be  
bothered to follow the instructions to unsubscribe either and will  
just click the "Report Spam" button when they no longer wish to  
receive the newsletter.  Things used to be different, but now days  
failing to confirm subscriptions can get you blacklisted, and even  
your website taken offline.  That actually happened to someone who  
ignored my insistence that they should require confirmations, arguing  
that it would be "too difficult" for their newsletter subscribers.





many thanks

dn

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[Mailman-Users] Memebership list...

[Dov Oxenberg]

Hi,
In the Web administration interface, how do I adjust the number of subscribers 
displayed in the table?
Previously I was able to view all the members but now that the membership 
number has increased to over 30 subscribers the table is only displaying the 
first three members and I have to search for any other members individually.
Thanks!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Memebership list...

[Dragon]

Dov Oxenberg wrote:

Hi,
In the Web administration interface, how do I adjust the number of 
subscribers displayed in the table?
Previously I was able to view all the members but now that the 
membership number has increased to over 30 subscribers the table is 
only displaying the first three members and I have to search for any 
other members individually.

 End original message. -

In version 2.1.10 (NOT anything earlier) you can adjust the number of 
users displayed per page by setting admin_member_chunksize on the 
General Options page.


Dragon

~~~
 Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[Brad Knowles]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the
Return-Path.  Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC
2822.  Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author
header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it.


IIRC, when you enable Full Personalization, enough changes are made to the 
message that it ends up being considered a completely new message, and 
therefore a new message-id is created.  Same for list anonymization.


Certainly, when you turn on personalization, you can enable certain values 
to be used in the footer of each message being sent out that will tell you 
the original e-mail address that it was addressed to, and if the redacting 
covers only the headers and not the footer, then you might see that.


But either way, even you turn on just regular personalization and don't make 
any modifications to the message, you will get unique queue-ids that you can 
work with and compare against data in your logs.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source

[David Newman]

On 5/30/08 3:28 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the
Return-Path.  Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC
2822.  Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author
header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it.


IIRC, when you enable Full Personalization, enough changes are made to 
the message that it ends up being considered a completely new message, 
and therefore a new message-id is created.  Same for list anonymization.


That didn't happen, at least with my setup. grep'ing on the Message-ID 
provided by AOL still returned the email addresses of all list subscribers.




Certainly, when you turn on personalization, you can enable certain 
values to be used in the footer of each message being sent out that will 
tell you the original e-mail address that it was addressed to, and if 
the redacting covers only the headers and not the footer, then you might 
see that.


But either way, even you turn on just regular personalization and don't 
make any modifications to the message, you will get unique queue-ids 
that you can work with and compare against data in your logs.


Yes, that appears to have worked. At least so far after I unsubscribed 
the problem user, posts to this particular list have not resulted in 
spam reports from AOL.


dn

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[Mailman-Users] A quicker way to accept moderated messages

[Juliet Fink]

We just migrated all of our lists that we host from Listserv to Mailman and
several of the list owners and moderators who travel frequently and use
handhelds while on the go are wondering if there is a quicker way to accept
messages in a moderated list. 

 

Right now, an email comes, you click on it, login to mailman interface,
click on accept, and then click on submit. So there are a few steps to the
process (although I think this isn't particularly an unreasonable amount of
steps, I promised I would look into it to keep our users happy). I was
wondering if anyone had a quicker way to do this, fewer steps, a script that
enables you to accept a moderated message directly from a link in the email
or something to that effect.

 

Thanks,

 

Juliet

 



Juliet Fink, Director of Education

Philadelphia FIGHT

The AIDS Library * Critical Path * Project TEACH

1233 Locust Street, 2nd Floor

Philadelphia, PA 19107

P: (215)985-4851 x141 F: (215)985-4492

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

***

Important: This e-mail message and any attachments is intended for the
exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above.  It may contain information
that is protected, privileged, or confidential, and it should not be
disseminated, distributed, or copied to persons not authorized to receive
such information.  If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination,
distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited.  If you think you have
received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender immediately.

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT bur importent??

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Gents:

Nor sure where else I should post but at 5:27PM CDT I rec'd:
*
Your membership in the mailing list Mailman-Users has been disabled
due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
31-May-2008.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
this before your membership in the list is deleted.

*
Since I would suspect that "tomorrow" is NOY here yet, thought
I should mention.  -:)

Ed
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Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT bur importent??

[Brad Knowles]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Since I would suspect that "tomorrow" is NOY here yet, thought
I should mention.  -:)


That system is located in Amsterdam, and operates in the CET timezone.  So, 
for them, Tomorrow really has already happened.



As to why you got disabled, well, it could be the hackers who took over the 
comcast.com domain and redirected it to their own servers, thus causing your 
e-mail and e-mail for all other comcast.com users to be bounced.


You should be able to resubscribe without any problem.

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