Re: MD: MD's future and long play MD's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sony's gotta figure something out, in fact, I know they will. MD is only one of a few products that are backward compatable. A few that come to mind are" casette tapes - any compact casette player will play a compact casette unless it's digital or a different speed DirecTV stuff - Hey, they changed the compression, but then again, they planed on that. Atari - Hey, the 7800 played 2600 games Playstation 2 - I can sell my old box for a upgrade. Allow me to make a sarcastic remark You've forgot the PC! Our current 1Ghz Athlon and Pentium III PCs are still compatible to the first 4.7Mhz 8088 PCs... Thanks to Bill! Cheers, Ralph - thank you IBM! -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's future and long play MD's
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:39:58 +0100 Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sony's gotta figure something out, in fact, I know they will. MD is only one of a few products that are backward compatable. A few that come to mind are" casette tapes - any compact casette player will play a compact casette unless it's digital or a different speed DirecTV stuff - Hey, they changed the compression, but then again, they planed on that. Atari - Hey, the 7800 played 2600 games Playstation 2 - I can sell my old box for a upgrade. Allow me to make a sarcastic remark You've forgot the PC! Our current 1Ghz Athlon and Pentium III PCs are still compatible to the first 4.7Mhz 8088 PCs... Thanks to Bill! Hrmm, true. However, my AMD K6-II crashes on anything from anything lower than a 386. Even 486 and older Pentium class games have trouble running (Doom, Quake, ROTT) Howeve, the card in this machine has nice output and I can record to MD nicely. YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's future and long play MD's
I think it's a good idea, and I would be interested in seeing an MD Data2 (650MB) based audio MD portable. I think it would be great for MDs to hold 4 times as much audio (~5h20m of 292kbps ATRAC, or ~21h of 66kbps ATRAC3). However, there are a few issues that complicate Sony's decision: 1) Incompatibility - The new format would be incompatible with what came before and make a lot of equipment obsolete. Given the recent leak about a higher compression rate ATRAC, Sony isn't completely averse to such things, but it certainly would be a big decision. 2) Size/Weight/Power - I don't know about this, but I wonder how hard it is to make an MD Data2 drive fit into a tiny portable. 3) Cost - certainly the MD Data2 drives and media are more expensive. Is the [perceived] consumer benefit worth the added expense? 4) Evolution of the format - Would the high density version become the standard, or could Sony reasonably have two incompatible formats being promoted side by side in the market? I would think they would phase out the smaller one, which would mean the added expense in (3) would be placed upon all units. As I say, I think it would be nice to have the high density MD format available for audio recording. But I have some doubt as to whether it's the right time to transition the entire format to it as a new standard. But maybe the MD market more robust than we give it credit for and Sony should keep the MD ball rolling by moving on to bigger and better versions. Sony's gotta figure something out, in fact, I know they will. MD is only one of a few products that are backward compatable. A few that come to mind are" casette tapes - any compact casette player will play a compact casette unless it's digital or a different speed DirecTV stuff - Hey, they changed the compression, but then again, they planed on that. Atari - Hey, the 7800 played 2600 games Playstation 2 - I can sell my old box for a upgrade. Granted it's all the same generation of ATRAC, there have been enhancements. MP3 is a different version of MP2, well, a major version change, but still, same basic principal, and MP3 decoders by nature can't decode an MP2 stream AFAIK, programs like Winamp added that. Maybe sony will interdouce this new format and possibly do a "buyback" thing like the goverment in Canada is trying to do with grey-market dishes up there, only, instead of trying to control what we watch, Sony is trying to increase popularity and compatability. -J.R. YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's future
From: Dr. Wailun Kwok [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MD-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 12:50 PM Subject: MD: MD's future Dear all, I have read a lot of messages regarding MD, MP3,..., etc. I have also read some long discussion about MD's future not too long ago. I have some idea.. We can also look MD from different point of view. Because no matter ATRAC, WMA or MP3, they are all files in computer world. So, MD, in fact, is a format of computer data storage. There's a fairly signficant difference here. ATRAC is most definately NOT a computer file format, it is an encoding system designed specifically for MD in the same was as CDAudio is a format specifically designed for audio CD. Yes, you can (if you get the right hardware) extract the data onto a computer and use it, but it is not a file format in itself. MP3 and WMA were designed specifically to work on computers. In this sense, MD will have very very wide application because it has very good form factor, random access capability (compared with tape), good protection to the storage media, and, high storage density (MD data 2 can store up to 650MB of data). For example, MD digital camera, MD MP3 player (MP3 files stored on MD disc), MD digital vedio camera, MD music player (we call it MD player today), MD digital voice recorder, ... I wont argue with that, the format has great possibilities if Sony use their heads and market it properly, but we know that with Sony that doesn't happen much. Sony seem not to have learnt yet that they can't just rely on their brand name with "unknown" technology such as MD. IF it's a pair og headphones then by all means make a "slice of life" advert which doesn't immediately tell you what they are selling , but with things such as MD you need to inform people about what the technology does, not just assume they will realise because they wont. If this technology succeeds it will have had virtually nothing to do with Sony advertising at all, it will be word of mouth. MD, MD computer data drive, is a perfect replacement to floppy disk. One MD can replace up to 450 floppy discs. For floppy, we do not ask for high access speed. MD computer data drive could have many different interface such as IDE, USB or even 1394. It should have its role in the multi-media world. Comparing with those memory stick, its price is far too attractive. It came and went! Sony underestimated the computer market as you too seem to be doing. I can't remember the last time I used a floppy disc I think it was about 3 years ago when I installed Windows onto an old PC and needed a boot disk - most can boot from CD now. I don't have a floppy drive on my PC, I have an internal ZIP250Mb which I use instead. I have a CD-RW if I need more storage, but with DriveSpace running on the ZIP I get around 500Mb from that anyway (sometimes over 700Mb if I'm working with graphics). MD will have very little chance of success as a replacement for the floppy as there are a lot of much better technologies out there already which are cheaper. MD computer drives are only really useful in terms of a quick way to get material to and from MD disks to sound editing software - something which I would find very useful as it would mean I don't need to spend 74mins copying a disk to the PC and could get rid of the Sony920 sitting on my computer desk. With the MD computer data drive, we will be able to copy music files, image files, voice files or even movie files, from computer to the MD disc easily, then, replay it in the corresponding equipements which could be MD music player, MD digital voice player, MD video player,... Possibly. For audio recording I love using my MD, but I'm not so sure about movie editing. I find the older Hi8 camcorder systems give better quality pictures than the DV systems, and if sound is that critical I just strap my MD onto my belt and plug into the camcorder for backup sound, or even better use a seperate sound recording setup altogether. When digital video improves I may be tempted, but not yet. I have tried to realize my idea with the manufacturer in Taiwan but the project failed because: (1) the company did not put priority to the project, they focus on CD-ROM; (2) most of the MD patents are in Japanese hands. or how about (3) it has already been done ? We've had MD data drives and they failed because the competition was better. By the time MD2 hits the streets I expect there will be smaller, faster, more convenient PC hardware available. If MD tries to invade the computer world it may get killed off. It would be better to concentrate on giving it a stronger hold as an audio format where it is getting a really good take-up. Possibly use it in digital video too, but I'm not so sure it wont have better competition there from other technologies such as mini hard drives and RAM storage. However, I truely believe there is a huge market for the MD products mentioned above. Anyone of you see the
Re: MD: MD's future
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Dear Magic, Thanks for your prompt and knowledgeable reply. You are right that the MD computer data drive might get killed in the market place, but, in my humble opinion, only in an isolated, not an integrated, situation / solution. I mean if someone develops MD data drive and try to sell it, the possibility to fail in the market place is very high. You have clearly pointed it out. And, I fully agree with you. But, if it is an integrated solution, the possibility of success should be much higher Let's imagine...the so-called integrated solution: (1) MD digital camera: a digital camera which has a build-in (or USB interfaced) MD data drive, the picture files can then be stored on the MD disc... (2) MD digital video camera: similar to (1), (already developed by SONY, which is called MD View, if my memory serves me.) (3) MD digital voice recorder: similar to above. (4) MD MP3/WMA player: an MP3 player which has a built-in MD data drive (or USB interfaced) MD data drive, the user can copy MP3/WMA files from computer onto the MD discs and re-play the music from the player. (5) MD computer data drive. Basically the user need to have either (1), to (4) with (5) to have creation, duplication, transfer, and, backup functionalities. (5) alone is only an isolated solution which provides very limited functionality. By the way, again, I want to emphasize the "form factor". Because of the small-size of the MD, (1), to (4), even (5), can be built in very compact size, which is impossible for ZIP, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM,..., etc. As for the mini harddrive or memory stick, they are still too small in capacity and too expensive in price comparatively. But, I do believe they will have their role in the future if the capacity can be further increased and the price can go down rapidly. Just some humble opinions. Thanks. Magic wrote: From: Dr. Wailun Kwok [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MD-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 12:50 PM Subject: MD: MD's future Dear all, I have read a lot of messages regarding MD, MP3,..., etc. I have also read some long discussion about MD's future not too long ago. I have some idea.. We can also look MD from different point of view. Because no matter ATRAC, WMA or MP3, they are all files in computer world. So, MD, in fact, is a format of computer data storage. There's a fairly signficant difference here. ATRAC is most definately NOT a computer file format, it is an encoding system designed specifically for MD in the same was as CDAudio is a format specifically designed for audio CD. Yes, you can (if you get the right hardware) extract the data onto a computer and use it, but it is not a file format in itself. MP3 and WMA were designed specifically to work on computers. In this sense, MD will have very very wide application because it has very good form factor, random access capability (compared with tape), good protection to the storage media, and, high storage density (MD data 2 can store up to 650MB of data). For example, MD digital camera, MD MP3 player (MP3 files stored on MD disc), MD digital vedio camera, MD music player (we call it MD player today), MD digital voice recorder, ... I wont argue with that, the format has great possibilities if Sony use their heads and market it properly, but we know that with Sony that doesn't happen much. Sony seem not to have learnt yet that they can't just rely on their brand name with "unknown" technology such as MD. IF it's a pair og headphones then by all means make a "slice of life" advert which doesn't immediately tell you what they are selling , but with things such as MD you need to inform people about what the technology does, not just assume they will realise because they wont. If this technology succeeds it will have had virtually nothing to do with Sony advertising at all, it will be word of mouth. MD, MD computer data drive, is a perfect replacement to floppy disk. One MD can replace up to 450 floppy discs. For floppy, we do not ask for high access speed. MD computer data drive could have many different interface such as IDE, USB or even 1394. It should have its role in the multi-media world. Comparing with those memory stick, its price is far too attractive. It came and went! Sony underestimated the computer market as you too seem to be doing. I can't remember the last time I used a floppy disc I think it was about 3 years ago when I installed Windows onto an old PC and needed a boot disk - most can boot from CD now. I don't have a floppy drive on my PC, I have an internal ZIP250Mb which I use instead. I have a CD-RW if I need more storage, but with DriveSpace running on the ZIP I get around 500Mb from
RE: MD: MD's Future
James Jarvie wrote: Now we all seem to agree on two additional points (other than wanting the format to survive and prosper), those being: 1) Sony is an arrogant and short-sighted company and 2) Sony's marketing leaves much to be desired. I demur on (1). I don't know if Sony is arrogant. I suspect it just suffers from the ills of any big company, massive inertia difficulty in understanding the viewpoint of the end-user. Probably someone high up in the company dreamed up the idea of "End Search". Would they sell more units if they changed it ? NO. Would someone loose face if they did ? YES. I wonder what it must be like for a person working at Sony to see the company getting slagged off for relatively minor (if irritating) "features", and for not listening, when, in fact, they may be doing their best to make our views known, but being drowned out by other, more fiscally significant voices. I say to Sony - well done for a useful format and some excellent products - just don't rest on your laurels. On (2) I have to agree, they don't seem to have a clue. The little marketing I have seen has been deeply puzzling ... simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's Future
Simon Barnes wrote: Probably someone high up in the company dreamed up the idea of "End Search". Would they sell more units if they changed it ? NO. Would someone loose face if they did ? YES. I wonder what it must be like for a person working at Sony to see the company getting slagged off for relatively minor (if irritating) "features", A feature that causes people to accidently erase previously recorded material is not a minor irritating feature. For anyone doing live recording, instead of just copying previously recorded material, it is a major flaw. You can record the most wonderful performance, go back and play 30 seconds of it it just to see if you have it, and if you forget to press END SEARCH, you will destroy it when you start recording again. The same thing happens if you have recorded 20 minutes on a minidisc, and you want to add more to it. If you forget to press END SEARCH, your previous material is scrap. THe decks don't work that way, so it is easy to forget going from a deck to a portable. and for not listening, when, in fact, they may be doing their best to make our views known, but being drowned out by other, more fiscally significant voices. I say to Sony - well done for a useful format and some excellent products - just don't rest on your laurels. On (2) I have to agree, they don't seem to have a clue. The little marketing I have seen has been deeply puzzling ... simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: MD's Future
Personally i think that if they wanted to really push it, the next time they know they are going to have an album release, they should only release it on MD for the first 6 or so months, that would definately push a lot of people into the MD scene that were not there before. But i doubt that Sony has the guts to try something like this as the allmight dollar is far more important to them than doing anything half way logical :P It's an interesting idea, but I don't think that many artists would be too happy to have their new album released on just one format. Mind you, I'd happily sign to Sony and put my stuff out on just MD - or anything really. R Brown - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's Future
From: Eric Woudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: MD: MD's Future Anyway, why not address the problem constructively: what changes does Sony need to make? As if we didn't already know the answer to that one GET RID OF THE END SEARCH BUTTON!!! Sometimes it can be useful to over-write existing recordings, but you should have to press a button to enable this effect, not the other way around as it is at the moment. Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD's Future
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === If they do or do not read this mailing list, i dont think that is as much the point as that sony right now really is not pushing MD. Personally i think that if they wanted to really push it, the next time they know they are going to have an album release, they should only release it on MD for the first 6 or so months, that would definately push a lot of people into the MD scene that were not there before. But i doubt that Sony has the guts to try something like this as the allmight dollar is far more important to them than doing anything half way logical :P just an opinion Matt Hi James, James Jarvie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: them. Sony is not reading this list. You are certainly entitled to your opinions about Sony, but please be careful when you state things as fact. To say that "Sony" does or does not read something is difficult in any case, since there are thousands of Sony employees. But I can say at least that several Sony MiniDisc staffers read MD-L, some who are even in a position to make equipment design changes. Anyway, why not address the problem constructively: what changes does Sony need to make? Rick - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
