Re: MD: quality of optical cables (OFF TOPIC!!!)
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 18 Jan 2000 | I've yet to see the first PC that uses FDDI. Oh, you can get EISA and PCI FDDI network adaptors. They are hideously expensive compared to the under $100 price tag of 100-BaseTX these days, but they can be had. | Cheers, | Ralph - What has this to do with MD? Nothing... Optical digital interlink. Really only tangental, though. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My computer, which transmits loads of data down SCSI, IDE, even parallel and phone cables, gets by fine with plain old wires. Well, for IDE (in UDMA/66 mode) it's 66Mhz over a 60 cm long cable. SCSI supports even higher frequencies over an even longer cable. Unless you start using fire-wire or other hot technology disk applications, you'll never see optical connections inside a PC. Compared to TosLink, TosLink supports bit rates up to 6 Mbit/second. This signal is modulated using light. Using a red LED with a wavelength of 650nm, the signal while 'bounce' about one and a half milion times in a 1 meter cable before ariving at the end. A coaxial connection at 6Mbit using a 6Mhz carier, has a wavelenght of about 50 meters. Ie, you can use a two wire connection up to 12.5 meters before you'll get strange artifacts in the signal due to the reflections and termination of the signal itself! THe only reason to use coax in this application is for the better shielding! Cheers, Ralph -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
Ralph, It may bounce a lot, but Toslink works just fine with very long cables. I have a 10 meter cable that I use to connect my CD carousel in another room to my MD deck, and it works great. Not a single problem. -- Martin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ralph Smeets Compared to TosLink, TosLink supports bit rates up to 6 Mbit/second. This signal is modulated using light. Using a red LED with a wavelength of 650nm, the signal while 'bounce' about one and a half milion times in a 1 meter cable before ariving at the end. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
Magic wrote: Is there really much difference between optical and co-ax digital connections in home audio use? Coax is a lot cheaper... other than that... no. It ain't necessarily so. I can put a case for optical connections being (potentially) both cheaper and more reliable. The fibre itself is some kind of acrylic, with probably a PVC sleeve. It can be bought for pence a metre in bulk, and since it contains no copper is probably cheaper and easier to make than a coax. There is no soldering required, the fibre just pushes into the connector, and it can be cut with wirecutters, no need for optical polishing. The connectors are simple plastic mouldings, with no particular requirement for accurate alignment, and since it suffices to stuff the bare fibre into the hole, and hold it in place with a piece of gum, provided you can keep fluff out of the connector, the connection should be more reliable than a pair of (allegedly) corrosion-prone metal/metal contacts. The fact that optical connections currently attact a price premium is an artifact of their newness. simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ralph, It may bounce a lot, but Toslink works just fine with very long cables. I have a 10 meter cable that I use to connect my CD carousel in another room to my MD deck, and it works great. Not a single problem. -- Martin Correct, I was just trying to point out that the optical connection doesn't give a better connection! Cheers, Ralph -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
From: "Richard Wright" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I stand corrected. The SPDIF signal is indeed different. Ok everybody - forget the experiment (but do send pictures of your gold-plated optical connectors). I'll try and get some for you all to laugh at :-) I think they're made by Van Damme who make high quality cables and connectors, so god knows what they're doing making gold plated optical leads!! Grover Perhaps the gold plated plug reduces spurious optical reflections between the lead and the LED / photodiode. I bet a hi-fi journalist would be able to "explain" how the gold-plated plugs produce superior sound quality. Such knowledge of optics is beyond me or anyone with a scientific background however :-) Cheers, PrinceGaz -- "if it harms none, do what you will" Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://website.lineone.net/~princegaz/ ICQ: 36892193 - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
Sound Professionals has 5 meter Toslink cables for $22.99 each and 10 meter for $32.99. -- Martin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have found optical cable at much lower prices than you stated. I have two 5m runs that I bought for $52.25 including terminations, shipping, and a credit card surcharge. CJ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 4:44 PM Subject: RE: MD: quality of optical cables I have found optical cable at much lower prices than you stated. I have two 5m runs that I bought for $52.25 including terminations, shipping, and a credit card surcharge. CJ But you don't live in "Rip Off Britain" . Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
- Original Message - From: Richard Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 10:40 PM Subject: RE: MD: quality of optical cables Yeah, I can do 5m Toslink-Toslink for 20 UKPounds plus 2 UKPounds PP (including VAT). Branded ones (like Sony etc.) are just a total rip off. Wrighty How much for 8m ? Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 17 Jan 2000 | Well, for IDE (in UDMA/66 mode) it's 66Mhz over a 60 cm long cable. SCSI | supports even higher frequencies over an even longer cable. Unless you | start using fire-wire or other hot technology disk applications, you'll | never see optical connections inside a PC. Fibre channel (FDDI) is *the* way to hook up high capacity, high speed RAID configurations. Anything less, even the current generation ultra fast/wide SCSI is pathetically slow by comparison. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
Herro, All this discussion about optical cables has got me thinking. Why use an optical cable for digital audio connections at all? I know they are impervious to electromagnetic interference, but is that really such a problem in a cable less than a metre long? And since the transmission is digital, is the lack of interference so crucial? My computer, which transmits loads of data down SCSI, IDE, even parallel and phone cables, gets by fine with plain old wires. Is it something to do with Toslink error correction, or is it just a fun new tech for all the first adopters amongst us? Is there really much difference between optical and co-ax digital connections in home audio use? Questions, questions Alan (who as a journalist is more than happy to be corrected by one of the techier list members...) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of P. Grover Cleveland Sent: 16 January 2000 04:16 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: quality of optical cables I stand corrected. The SPDIF signal is indeed different. Ok everybody - forget the experiment (but do send pictures of your gold-plated optical connectors). Grover - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
From: Alan Dowds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 12:37 PM Subject: RE: MD: quality of optical cables Herro, Herro dair... All this discussion about optical cables has got me thinking. Why use an optical cable for digital audio connections at all? Marketing. Optical technology sounds more technical and clever, so it gives the equipment a futuristic quality. I know they are impervious to electromagnetic interference, but is that really such a problem in a cable less than a metre long? Given the 10m coax cable running own the wall cavity of my house connecting the HiFi system downstairs to the computer system upstairs, it's not really a consideratoin for home audio at all. I made a 2-way connection including a relay that lets me use my remote control upstairs (reciever upstaris, transmitter in Hi-Fi cab downstairs) for £20. The fibre optic alone would have set me back about £80, and that's without any of the specialist tools needed to make the connectors. And since the transmission is digital, is the lack of interference so crucial? If I were in an industrial factory, yes. I've yet to have my thermostat or central heating prevent me enjoying my music. If I did get a click sound it would probably be a mains spike to the amp that would be the cause, not interference with digital interconnects. My computer, which transmits loads of data down SCSI, IDE, even parallel and phone cables, gets by fine with plain old wires. Yep, as do the majority of satellites and communications equipment. Take the BBCs television transmitters for example - no fibre optic there, yet the picture quality is great! Is it something to do with Toslink error correction, or is it just a fun new tech for all the first adopters amongst us? It sounds cool, it sells better. Is there really much difference between optical and co-ax digital connections in home audio use? Coax is a lot cheaper... other than that... no. Hope this helps! Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
Is it something to do with Toslink error correction, or is it just a fun new tech for all the first adopters amongst us? It sounds cool, it sells better. Is there really much difference between optical and co-ax digital connections in home audio use? Coax is a lot cheaper... other than that... no. Hope this helps! Magic I think another major factor may be to keep things straightforward. On a portable, where all the jacks are 3.5mm, it makes sense to keep the digital input as different as possible from the analogue. Thus people remember: Thin cables with red light light at the end = digital Metal jack plug with thick cable = analogue If you were doing electrical SP/DIF on a 3.5mm jack, imagine the potential confusion :) -- Simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
Simon Gardner wrote: I think another major factor may be to keep things straightforward. On a portable, where all the jacks are 3.5mm, it makes sense to keep the digital input as different as possible from the analogue. Thus people remember: Thin cables with red light light at the end = digital Metal jack plug with thick cable = analogue If you were doing electrical SP/DIF on a 3.5mm jack, imagine the potential confusion :) As it is, a couple of times I made a mistake and plugged a mike into the optical input on my R30 and was real disappointed after recording for an hour to find that I had 20 blank tracks. :( -- Jim Coon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * "Alan Dowds" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 16 Jan 2000 | All this discussion about optical cables has got me thinking. Why use an | optical cable for digital audio connections at all? Practicality: optical jacks are significantly smaller than the RCA jacks digital coax uses, making it a preference for portable equipment. | I know they are impervious to electromagnetic interference, but is that | really such a problem in a cable less than a metre long? And since the | transmission is digital, is the lack of interference so crucial? My | computer, which transmits loads of data down SCSI, IDE, even parallel and | phone cables, gets by fine with plain old wires. Computer information protocols have "retry on error" mechanism. S/P-DIF does not. Either you have a sufficiently "clean" connection for data, or you get nothing at all. TOSlink does not provide error correction per se; it provides a connection that does not require error correction. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE4ggkhgl+vIlSVSNkRAl+gAKCaepzYeeAghf5YkRauBFq8vvw+YACgykgt yPsQxxnh8rQC8aBu7PTrMb8= =hQsW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
At 20:15 15/01/00 -0800, you wrote: I stand corrected. The SPDIF signal is indeed different. Ok everybody - forget the experiment (but do send pictures of your gold-plated optical connectors). I'll try and get some for you all to laugh at :-) I think they're made by Van Damme who make high quality cables and connectors, so god knows what they're doing making gold plated optical leads!! Grover - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: quality of optical cables
At 16:14 16/01/00 +, you wrote: SNIP Coax is a lot cheaper... other than that... no. Hope this helps! Magic I think another major factor may be to keep things straightforward. On a portable, where all the jacks are 3.5mm, it makes sense to keep the digital input as different as possible from the analogue. Thus people remember: Thin cables with red light light at the end = digital Metal jack plug with thick cable = analogue If you were doing electrical SP/DIF on a 3.5mm jack, imagine the potential confusion :) -- Simon Interestingly enough, my Philips DCC portable has only one 3.5mm jack input socket, which can take line, mic, co-ax S/PDIF and optical S/PDIF. There is a switch to select line/mic H/mic L/mic auto, and co-ax S/PDIF uses a jack plug with 4 contacts on it instead of the usual 3. I think this is far a far better method than my Sharp 722 MD portable, or any other portable for that matter, as it allows maximum flexibility and choice - optical cables are expensive and unneccessary - just another gadget to get you to spend more cash :-) The DCC also has line out and optical digital out on the same socket (but no co-ax digital out), and has a separate headphone socket. Cheers, Wrighty - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
From: Stainless Steel Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MD-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 6:08 PM Subject: Re: MD: quality of optical cables Practicality: optical jacks are significantly smaller than the RCA jacks digital coax uses, making it a preference for portable equipment. 2.5mm mono jacks are even smaller and could transfer TTL SPDIF without any problems at all. Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
* "Magic" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 16 Jan 2000 | 2.5mm mono jacks are even smaller and could transfer TTL SPDIF without any | problems at all. Well, there is the problem that 2.5mm anything is totally alien to the audio world, whereas the optical miniplug can be easilly integrated with the very common 1/8" stereo minijack. So, when the issue is space, one jack that can do two things is preferable to two separate jacks. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: quality of optical cables
Stainless Steel Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/17 11:54 am Well, there is the problem that 2.5mm anything is totally alien to the audio world, Nope have a look around at most dictation equipment and you'll find a lot of 2.5mm stuff (I have at least 2 items). 2.5mm is also being used in mobile phone communications - (hands free kits and car kits) granted it's not really "audio" related. whereas the optical miniplug can be easilly integrated with the very common 1/8" stereo minijack. So, when the issue is space, one jack that can do two things is preferable to two separate jacks. I do agree here multi use plugs do serve you well when space is a premium (like on portable equipment). CheersGC PS: Does anyone know the history of the 1/8th (3.5mm - actually 3.175mm if it was 1/8") and 1/4" (6.3mm) jacks ? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
