Re: [MBZ] The 240D LIVES!

[David Bruckmann]

The front windshield gaskets are once again available from MB; not sure about 
the rear (there were two versions IIRC). I'm sure Tom can verify. 

Good news, since word has it that the APA/URO aftermarket ones don't fit worth 
a damn. 

D. 

On 2012-02-26, at 17:53, mercedes-requ...@okiebenz.com wrote:

> From: "Kevin Kraly" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Subject: [MBZ] The 240D LIVES!
> 
> 
> All I had to do to get her running was to hook up the new battery! One 45 
> second glow cycle and it lit right off like it was sitting overnight! The 
> idle is a bit low and the shift notches don?t line up with the gates, but the 
> drivetrain performs as it should, even the kickdown function! Holding true 
> with any 35 year old survivor, she does have some bad and a bit of ugly 
> thrown in too. There?s a rattle/grinding somewhere in the left rear when the 
> car is moving. I thought it was the muffler dragging, but the exhaust seems 
> to be buttoned up tightly. It doesn?t sound like a sway bar link, more 
> rotational sounding. It came with a set of brake pads, so it could be 
> something with the left rear caliper. The back of the hood is up, probably 
> bent hinges, and the UGLY is the rust through under the battery tray! A 
> little microwave sheet metal, some welding, painting and rust proofer would 
> do it (where are you, Cathey? The rear window gasket is quite dry and 
> cracked, and the front isn?t far behind. It?s straight with a decent interior 
> other than the warn driver?s seat. All in all, it?s a great car for $750!
> Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon
> 1977 240D, 315K miles, Unnamed
> PS. Still working on some German names, Irmgard, Liesel, ideas? I thought 
> about Ismelda, (I smelled her) from a mile away hahahahaha!)
> 
> --

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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Dieselhead]

Amen to that!

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:



 I don't have strong opinions about them otherwise except -- let the car
 companies build and sell them without subsidies from the gummint (i.e., you
 and me, or those who pay taxes) and let them live or die in the market.  If
 someone wants to pay huge money for one, so be it, I hope they are happy.
  But don't make me pay for their indulgence when there are much better
 alternatives out there (e.g., the Peugeot diesel wagon).

 --R





--
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___


And Amen to the original and the Amen

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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Dieselhead]

Last summer in Spain I rented a Peugeot diesel wagon, 5spd, it was 
brand new when I picked it up at the airport.  I was pleasantly 
surprised at what a nice car it was -- hauled 4 of us and all our 
stuff for 9 days on high-speed roads and back roads and in town, A/C 
running (blowing ice cold!) and I figured (with all the conversions 
of liters and kms) that it was getting over 40mpg.  I really wonder 
why we cannot buy cars like that here,


That is easy:  EPA

(Otherwise known as gummit)


Or is it Gummit, otherwise known as EPA?)
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[OK Don]

Amen to that!

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

>
> I don't have strong opinions about them otherwise except -- let the car
> companies build and sell them without subsidies from the gummint (i.e., you
> and me, or those who pay taxes) and let them live or die in the market.  If
> someone wants to pay huge money for one, so be it, I hope they are happy.
>  But don't make me pay for their indulgence when there are much better
> alternatives out there (e.g., the Peugeot diesel wagon).
>
> --R
>
>
>

-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[E M]

I agree.  There are many great cars that could and should be offered to the
North American market, which aren't.

While this may not be everyone's dream car, I bet they could sell millions
here.  I know it's just what I'd like, for running Rover to the park, and
to do the shopping in.  I'd trade my minivan in a heartbeat for one.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/z21157/Chevrolet-Cruze-Station-Wagon.aspx

Ed
300E

On 26 February 2012 22:33, Rich Thomas  wrote:

> Last summer in Spain I rented a Peugeot diesel wagon, 5spd, it was brand
> new when I picked it up at the airport.  I was pleasantly surprised at what
> a nice car it was -- hauled 4 of us and all our stuff for 9 days on
> high-speed roads and back roads and in town, A/C running (blowing ice
> cold!) and I figured (with all the conversions of liters and kms) that it
> was getting over 40mpg.  I really wonder why we cannot buy cars like that
> here, and get over all this nonsense with electric scooters that are of
> limited usefulness in all but very restricted circumstances.  Even a Pious
> does not do much better than that, and probably not as good in highway
> driving.
>
> I don't have strong opinions about them otherwise except -- let the car
> companies build and sell them without subsidies from the gummint (i.e., you
> and me, or those who pay taxes) and let them live or die in the market.  If
> someone wants to pay huge money for one, so be it, I hope they are happy.
>  But don't make me pay for their indulgence when there are much better
> alternatives out there (e.g., the Peugeot diesel wagon).
>
> --R
>
> On 2/26/12 10:21 PM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
>
>> Saw one in 2K10 at google I/O, they were still billing it as an electric
>> car at that point, no mention of a fuel system.
>>
>> My understanding is that it was designed as a commuter car to get you from
>> point A.0 to A.5 since point B.0 was a bit too far away.
>>
>> Walt
>> On Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:
>>
>>  Hans Neureiter  writes:
>>>
>>>  For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
 before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.

>>> I thought the Volt was a series hybrid, the engine powers a generator
>>> which drives the wheel motors.  It has a modest battery pack to recover
>>> energy from braking and to help out off the line, but it was never
>>> really intended to go far on batteries alone.  Is that correct?
>>>
>>>  Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
 battery.

>>> Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
>>> double that.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>> --
>>> 1983 300D
>>> 1979 300SD
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>  __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Rich Thomas]

Last summer in Spain I rented a Peugeot diesel wagon, 5spd, it was brand 
new when I picked it up at the airport.  I was pleasantly surprised at 
what a nice car it was -- hauled 4 of us and all our stuff for 9 days on 
high-speed roads and back roads and in town, A/C running (blowing ice 
cold!) and I figured (with all the conversions of liters and kms) that 
it was getting over 40mpg.  I really wonder why we cannot buy cars like 
that here, and get over all this nonsense with electric scooters that 
are of limited usefulness in all but very restricted circumstances.  
Even a Pious does not do much better than that, and probably not as good 
in highway driving.


I don't have strong opinions about them otherwise except -- let the car 
companies build and sell them without subsidies from the gummint (i.e., 
you and me, or those who pay taxes) and let them live or die in the 
market.  If someone wants to pay huge money for one, so be it, I hope 
they are happy.  But don't make me pay for their indulgence when there 
are much better alternatives out there (e.g., the Peugeot diesel wagon).


--R

On 2/26/12 10:21 PM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

Saw one in 2K10 at google I/O, they were still billing it as an electric
car at that point, no mention of a fuel system.

My understanding is that it was designed as a commuter car to get you from
point A.0 to A.5 since point B.0 was a bit too far away.

Walt
On Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:


Hans Neureiter  writes:


For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.

I thought the Volt was a series hybrid, the engine powers a generator
which drives the wheel motors.  It has a modest battery pack to recover
energy from braking and to help out off the line, but it was never
really intended to go far on batteries alone.  Is that correct?


Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
battery.

Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
double that.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[OK Don]

For some reason, they seem incapable of marketing the reality of the car.
It can run on batteries only, it can use the gas engine to power the
electric motor, it can run on gas only, or any ratio of gas/electric with
the planetary drive sustem.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

> Saw one in 2K10 at google I/O, they were still billing it as an electric
> car at that point, no mention of a fuel system.
>
> My understanding is that it was designed as a commuter car to get you from
> point A.0 to A.5 since point B.0 was a bit too far away.
>
> Walt
> On Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:
>
> > Hans Neureiter  writes:
> >
> > > For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
> > > before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
> >
> > I thought the Volt was a series hybrid, the engine powers a generator
> > which drives the wheel motors.  It has a modest battery pack to recover
> > energy from braking and to help out off the line, but it was never
> > really intended to go far on batteries alone.  Is that correct?
> >
> > > Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
> > > battery.
> >
> > Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
> > double that.
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1979 300SD
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
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>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Walt Zarnoch]

Saw one in 2K10 at google I/O, they were still billing it as an electric
car at that point, no mention of a fuel system.

My understanding is that it was designed as a commuter car to get you from
point A.0 to A.5 since point B.0 was a bit too far away.

Walt
On Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:

> Hans Neureiter  writes:
>
> > For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
> > before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
>
> I thought the Volt was a series hybrid, the engine powers a generator
> which drives the wheel motors.  It has a modest battery pack to recover
> energy from braking and to help out off the line, but it was never
> really intended to go far on batteries alone.  Is that correct?
>
> > Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
> > battery.
>
> Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
> double that.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[OK Don]

This is not the only review i the press, but it is the only one that's this
negative. Either something was wrong with the car, or something's fishy
about the review.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Allan Streib wrote:
>
>  Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
>>> battery.
>>>
>>
>> Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
>> double that.
>>
>
> I suspect that if it really got 30mpg including the 25 miles at infinite
> MPG in the average, then either Eric is a horrible driver or he was trying
> to discredit the car.
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:


Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
battery.


Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
double that.


I suspect that if it really got 30mpg including the 25 miles at infinite MPG in 
the average, then either Eric is a horrible driver or he was trying to discredit 
the car.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Volt

[OK Don]

Batteries and recouping the engineering/development costs for the new
technology?

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 5:42 PM,  wrote:

> A current car mag points out that the Volt is based on the Chevrolet Cruz
> but costs more than twice as much.
>
> Esplain again why this makes sense.
>
> RLE
> ___
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt vs. Gas

[Allan Streib]

Hans Neureiter  writes:

> For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
> before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.

I thought the Volt was a series hybrid, the engine powers a generator
which drives the wheel motors.  It has a modest battery pack to recover
energy from braking and to help out off the line, but it was never
really intended to go far on batteries alone.  Is that correct?

> Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
> battery.

Disappointing.  A modern diesel in a similar-sized car would do close to
double that.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Peter Hertzing]

Wouldn't that be acting like an oil cartel?  

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Dimitri Seretakis  wrote:

> Please don't shoot me for saying this but if there is so much demand for oil 
> from overpopulated countries like China and India then should we consider 
> hoarding our oil or at least limiting the amount we export to these rapidly 
> growing third world economies so that they don't deplete the worlds supply? 
> What would be ramifications of such a plan? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 26, 2012, at 1:53 PM, OK Don  wrote:
> 
> I read yesterday that gas is expected to hit $5/gal by the end of the year,
> due mostly to Iran and demand from China and India. What I haven't found is
> a prediction of the cost spread between gasoline and Diesel.
> We saw a two car accident on I-44 Friday night - a red Fiat 500 rear-ended
> a cream colored one! There is a Fiat dealerin OKC, but I don't usually see
> enough of them to expect them to be running into each other!
> 
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Isn't it amazing to see how fuel economy has become the big story lately?
> Its always the "New 30mpg super-whatever" now rather than the "3000hp
> super-whatever" that it was 2 years ago.
> 
> I think that the new hybrids/electric/whatevers helping push higher
> efficiency in regular gas cars. Well I suppose $3.50/gal gas helps that too.
> 
> After the new Super Bowl commercial I really want to test-drive a Fiat 500
> Abarth, then I looked up the specs and I really really want to test drive
> one...
> 
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 09:45:45 -0500
> From: Dan Penoff 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
> Message-ID: <780f0312-9011-4283-b63d-2cf69f279...@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> I have to agree with Grant.  While I'm all for saving energy, the math
> these people use, even if accurate, still fails to take a lot of the
> upstream costs into account, especially the cost of generating the
> electricity necessary to charge the thing.
> 
> I have to believe that if this is factored in accurately, an electric car,
> coupled with the high cost of battery technology, is still far more
> expensive from a cost per mile than one running on fossil fuels.
> 
> That being said, if solar costs could ever be brought into a manageable
> range, if you lived in an area where solar made sense and you could
> generate your own power, maybe, just maybe, it might approach a realistic
> cost.
> 
> It's unlikely to happen in our lifetime, I believe, so that's not
> something I'm counting on.
> 
> I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the
> corporate CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient
> cars, and I believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of
> being realistic unless something spectacular would occur with battery
> technology.
> 
> Where's that 100 MPG carburetor when you need it?
> 
> 
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 2001 ML320
> 1992 300D 2.5T
> 1990 300D 2.5T
> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
> ___
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[MBZ] $199 5 drawer tool cart from HF

[Rolf]

http://www.harborfreight.com/five-drawer-service-cart-95272.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=A6760F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA


I shopped around for a bit and this, by far, was best bang for buck.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] The 240D LIVES!

[Dieselhead]

Gear shift misalignment is easily cured by new bushings.  they are 
pretty cheap, but you may need to take the levver off the side of the 
trans in order to get the new one pressed in.


Sounds like a buy!  Congrats!

I like Liesel the Diesel!


All I had to do to get her running was to hook up the new battery! 
One 45 second glow cycle and it lit right off like it was sitting 
overnight! The idle is a bit low and the shift notches don't line up 
with the gates, but the drivetrain performs as it should, even the 
kickdown function! Holding true with any 35 year old survivor, she 
does have some bad and a bit of ugly thrown in too. There's a 
rattle/grinding somewhere in the left rear when the car is moving. I 
thought it was the muffler dragging, but the exhaust seems to be 
buttoned up tightly. It doesn't sound like a sway bar link, more 
rotational sounding. It came with a set of brake pads, so it could 
be something with the left rear caliper. The back of the hood is up, 
probably bent hinges, and the UGLY is the rust through under the 
battery tray! A little microwave sheet metal, some welding, painting 
and rust proofer would do it (where are you, Cathey? The rear window 
gasket is quite dry and cracked, and the front isn't far behind. 
It's straight with a decent interior other than the warn driver's 
seat. All in all, it's a great car for $750!

Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon
1977 240D, 315K miles, Unnamed
PS. Still working on some German names, Irmgard, Liesel, ideas? I 
thought about Ismelda, (I smelled her) from a mile away hahahahaha!)

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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[G Mann]

I'll give you a point on this only because I still own a buggy and a horse
and yes.. I am that old.

100 yrs ago the car really didn't work all that well, there was no steady
gasoline supply, and they were very expensive, compared to a horse. The gas
powered car beat the horse and buggy because it got much better, a steady
gasoline supply line was put in place, and it became "Cost Effective".

The Volt [and others like it] are at that undeveloped stage, the energy
supply line is not in place to support them [battery tech is a decade
behind being "cost effective" at best guess]. They have no service history
to support customer confidence.

Your point is , on point, in that electric cars are, after 100 yrs of cars
being well accepted, still not accepted, for all the reasons the 1908 Arrow
went out of business. It wasn't good enough yet..

When they make a good one that works.. well priced.. with proven service
history and customer support.. I'll consider it.  IF

Grant...

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> 100 years ago you'd have been telling us "That new auto-carriage is crazy!
> What idiot would pay for gasoline when you can feed a horse basically for
> free? Why perform costly maintenance, it costs almost nothing to put a new
> coat of paint on yonder buggy! As far as I can see the auto-carriage has no
> future."
>
> In 100 years people are going to look back at people like you and say
> "well that guy was an idiot" but not because the Volt is such a great car,
> its not and pretty much everybody admits it. Its because change is coming
> and the Volt is one of the first of a new breed. Will they be electric?
> Hybrid? Synth diesel? Natural gas? I don't have any idea but I know they're
> coming and holding on to the old things just shows you as a scared old coot
> just like the scared old coots you made fun of back in your day. If you get
> yourself a union suit and a hat with ear flaps you can even look like that
> old coot you used to make fun of. ;)
>
> -Curt
>
> Note: The above is partially my opinion and partially satire, I'll leave
> it to you to figure out which is which.
>
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 07:35:27 -0700
> From: G Mann 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Well good for them but it's still wonky math.
>
> Ok.. so electric costs are .12 cents average Let's factor in the cars
> cost of $46.000 and divide that by the "projected" service life of the
> battery, plus battery replacement costs for service life of the car [got
> any idea how many miles this car will go?] , THEN amortize that true cost
> [plus any gasoline used, don't forget] into each mile driven.
>
> I don't have those numbers to run with because of all the "hyperbole green
> spin" but my engineering gut tells me it will come in high for "cost per
> mile driven".
>
> Now let's take a real hard look at the true emission profile. More than 80%
> of electric generation is done via coal fired plants, which although not in
> your green car back yard, are none the less emission factories belching
> 24/7 into the "carbon footprint" so you can plug in your "green car" and
> hide your emissions by using a clever hyperbole that the 'car didn't do
> it" Well. it does. For every hour you are "plugged in" and every hour
> you are driving that car, the power grid must "stand ready" with electric
> to "refill your tank [battery]"   Better add that to the math also to get a
> real picture.
>
> This is getting long and it is a long equation.  Bottom line, oil was
> chosen because it was cheap, quick, easy, and "clean enough". As an energy,
> it has dominated for all those reasons and will continue despite "stimuli
> by government" for most of my remaining lifetime.
>
> Grant...
>
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Re: [MBZ] The 240D LIVES!

[Mitch Haley]

Kevin Kraly wrote:

There’s a rattle/grinding somewhere in the left rear when the car is moving.


Sounds like an axle/CV joint?

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[MBZ] The 240D LIVES!

[Kevin Kraly]

All I had to do to get her running was to hook up the new battery! One 45 
second glow cycle and it lit right off like it was sitting overnight! The idle 
is a bit low and the shift notches don’t line up with the gates, but the 
drivetrain performs as it should, even the kickdown function! Holding true with 
any 35 year old survivor, she does have some bad and a bit of ugly thrown in 
too. There’s a rattle/grinding somewhere in the left rear when the car is 
moving. I thought it was the muffler dragging, but the exhaust seems to be 
buttoned up tightly. It doesn’t sound like a sway bar link, more rotational 
sounding. It came with a set of brake pads, so it could be something with the 
left rear caliper. The back of the hood is up, probably bent hinges, and the 
UGLY is the rust through under the battery tray! A little microwave sheet 
metal, some welding, painting and rust proofer would do it (where are you, 
Cathey? The rear window gasket is quite dry and cracked, and the front isn’t 
far behind. It’s straight with a decent interior other than the warn driver’s 
seat. All in all, it’s a great car for $750!
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon
1977 240D, 315K miles, Unnamed
PS. Still working on some German names, Irmgard, Liesel, ideas? I thought about 
Ismelda, (I smelled her) from a mile away hahahahaha!)
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Re: [MBZ] HP TouchPad

[Dan Penoff]

I will continue to play with the native OS (WebOS) for a little while longer 
before I install the latest alpha build of Android ICS.  Since it will dual 
boot, unless I feel the need for lots of space I will probably run both until I 
decide which one I like better

Dan




On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Tim C wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2012 10:09 PM, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:
>> 
>> Came through fine. It was just HTML instead of plain text. I would think
> there is a tweak in the email program for that.
> 
> You'd think that because you never used WebOS. :)
> 
> Actually it isn't that bad, but everything else got better over the last
> few years, while Palm stagnated.  We used WebOS on the Touchpads for about
> a month, but there was just so much more stuff available on Android. (And
> as a former Pre user I knew my way around!) Definitely haven't looked back.
> 
> Android I can see as a laptop replacement, WebOS was more of a portable
> internet device with a barely-decent browser.
> 
> Best,
> Tim


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Re: [MBZ] Volt

[RELNGSON]

A current car mag points out that the Volt is based on the Chevrolet Cruz 
but costs more than twice as much.

Esplain again why this makes sense.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Dan Penoff]

On Feb 26, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> Most record shops buy vinyl.  You can have them give you a price and if you
> don't like it you don't have to sell it to them.  With so much competition
> on eBay and the cost of shipping that much weight what do you think you'd
> get and how much more or less would it be than the record shop?
> 

The only way to do it economically is to use Media Mail.  You can track and 
insure in MM, so it's a cheap means of moving large amounts of vinyl for a 
minimal amount of money.

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Dan Penoff]

I used to do work for the juke box crowd, which is why this guy paid me in 
vinyl.  I had a Wurlitzer from the early 60s I was considering restoring, and 
had mentioned this to him.  Unfortunately, the Wurlitzer was so far gone that I 
eventually gave it away on FreeCycle just to get it out of my basement.

I later scored a Rowe/AMI CD jukebox which was a real pleasure to work on and 
maintain, not to mention it held far more music than a 45 jukebox did.  
Granted, it wasn't as aesthetically pleasing or retro, but it did the job and 
cost me nothing.

I may try an initial foray on the local CL and see if I get any hits.

There are a number of sites online that allow you to sell vinyl, but it's a hit 
or miss sort of thing, and both that I looked at either required an up front 
fee plus a seller's fee, or a ridiculous (13%!) commission.

Dan

On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:26 PM, clay monroe wrote:

> Look into the juke box crowd.  Those are high end collectables, and a guy 
> with one may want to have a period specific set of disks for his machine.  
> 
> I was at the auction Friday, and there was a 1952 Seeburg 100 that went for 
> $2k.  It will be torn down and given a solid refurb.  Buyer thought he would 
> be putting $5k into getting it back to period and fully functional.
> 
> clay
> 
> On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> 
>> Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off a 
>> decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of 
>> titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I 
>> don't need an appraisal - read on.)
>> 
>> I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of 
>> attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some 
>> real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less than 
>> it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot of 
>> stuff they don't want outside of a few desirable records.
>> 
>> The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s.  All are 
>> in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork specific 
>> to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.
>> 
>> Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's pinball 
>> machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my favorite 
>> artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly after.  
>> Can't say that I have ever put one on a turntable
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Re: convenience
>>> 
>>> That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still 
>>> beats digits with tube amplification.
>>> 
>>> G. M. Brown
>>> Brevard, NC   
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?

[WILTON]

Oh, I forgot 64 Karman Ghia and coupla 67 VW Beetles.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?


After having ridden/driven many miles on one-mule tobacco harvesting 
trucks, two-mule wagons, a bicycle, a 48 Ford farm tractor, 51 John Deere 
farm tractor, 31 Ford Model A, 37 Ford, 40 Ford, two 49 Fords, 51 through 
57 Chevies, and a 61 Pontiac, all with no AC, I have no desire whatsoever 
to experience any more open-air motoring - not even a so-called "sunroof." 
;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Chamberlain" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?



On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:


Craig wrote:


On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:42:25 -0500 Mitch Haley  wrote:


http://swmi.craigslist.org/**cto/2839200568.html




Seems a tad expensive.



Most sellers still want $12k for a nice one. (which might be a better 
deal

than
$5k for a shabby one)


I've never seen a 124 cabriolet advertised for less than five digits. 
That

red one looks like the kind of thing the guys on the British TV show
"Wheeler Dealers" would snap up, do a little work on, and flip for twice
what they paid.

If I had the cash I'd be asking Mitch to do a PPI for me and probably be
right out there on the next plane.

OTOH I've always found the idea of owning a convertible more exciting 
than

the reality.  Keeping the top clean is no fun, and without constantly
putting the top up and down every time you stop somewhere, you can't 
really
use one as a daily driver.  My needs for open-air motoring are in 
practice

more than satisfied by sunroofs and motorcycles.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?

[WILTON]

After having ridden/driven many miles on one-mule tobacco harvesting trucks, 
two-mule wagons, a bicycle, a 48 Ford farm tractor, 51 John Deere farm 
tractor, 31 Ford Model A, 37 Ford, 40 Ford, two 49 Fords, 51 through 57 
Chevies, and a 61 Pontiac, all with no AC, I have no desire whatsoever to 
experience any more open-air motoring - not even a so-called "sunroof."  ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Chamberlain" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?



On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:


Craig wrote:


On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:42:25 -0500 Mitch Haley  wrote:


http://swmi.craigslist.org/**cto/2839200568.html




Seems a tad expensive.



Most sellers still want $12k for a nice one. (which might be a better 
deal

than
$5k for a shabby one)


I've never seen a 124 cabriolet advertised for less than five digits. 
That

red one looks like the kind of thing the guys on the British TV show
"Wheeler Dealers" would snap up, do a little work on, and flip for twice
what they paid.

If I had the cash I'd be asking Mitch to do a PPI for me and probably be
right out there on the next plane.

OTOH I've always found the idea of owning a convertible more exciting than
the reality.  Keeping the top clean is no fun, and without constantly
putting the top up and down every time you stop somewhere, you can't 
really

use one as a daily driver.  My needs for open-air motoring are in practice
more than satisfied by sunroofs and motorcycles.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?

[OK Don]

My need for a convertable disappeared the second time the rear window of my
MGA was slit and torn open in the middle of winter on campus. (I'm a slow
learner).

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

>
> I've never seen a 124 cabriolet advertised for less than five digits.  That
> red one looks like the kind of thing the guys on the British TV show
> "Wheeler Dealers" would snap up, do a little work on, and flip for twice
> what they paid.
>
> If I had the cash I'd be asking Mitch to do a PPI for me and probably be
> right out there on the next plane.
>
> OTOH I've always found the idea of owning a convertible more exciting than
> the reality.  Keeping the top clean is no fun, and without constantly
> putting the top up and down every time you stop somewhere, you can't really
> use one as a daily driver.  My needs for open-air motoring are in practice
> more than satisfied by sunroofs and motorcycles.
>
> Alex
> ___
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Who needs a red 124 convertible?

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Craig wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:42:25 -0500 Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>
>>  
>> http://swmi.craigslist.org/**cto/2839200568.html
>>>
>>
>> Seems a tad expensive.
>>
>
> Most sellers still want $12k for a nice one. (which might be a better deal
> than
> $5k for a shabby one)
>
>
I've never seen a 124 cabriolet advertised for less than five digits.  That
red one looks like the kind of thing the guys on the British TV show
"Wheeler Dealers" would snap up, do a little work on, and flip for twice
what they paid.

If I had the cash I'd be asking Mitch to do a PPI for me and probably be
right out there on the next plane.

OTOH I've always found the idea of owning a convertible more exciting than
the reality.  Keeping the top clean is no fun, and without constantly
putting the top up and down every time you stop somewhere, you can't really
use one as a daily driver.  My needs for open-air motoring are in practice
more than satisfied by sunroofs and motorcycles.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[clay monroe]

Hard to figure.  I ended up with a complete set of Babs Striesand LPs a few 
years ago.  Put them on fleabay and sold the 20 or so disks to some guy in San 
Fransisco for $150.  These were not anywhere near good, just a full set of her 
vinyl.  Some were in sorry shape, but not scratched to shreds.

clay

On Feb 26, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> Most record shops buy vinyl.  You can have them give you a price and if you
> don't like it you don't have to sell it to them.  With so much competition
> on eBay and the cost of shipping that much weight what do you think you'd
> get and how much more or less would it be than the record shop?
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> try   
>> http://www.gocontinental.com/**pgde.htm
>> 
>> 
>> Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off
>>> a decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of
>>> titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I
>>> don't need an appraisal - read on.)
>>> 
>>> I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of
>>> attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some
>>> real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less
>>> than it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot
>>> of stuff they don't want outside of a few desirable records.
>>> 
>>> The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s. All
>>> are in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork
>>> specific to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.
>>> 
>>> Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's
>>> pinball machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my
>>> favorite artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly
>>> after.  Can't say that I have ever put one on a turntable
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Re: convenience
 
 That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still
 beats digits with tube amplification.
 
 G. M. Brown
 Brevard, NC
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __**_
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __**_
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[clay monroe]

Look into the juke box crowd.  Those are high end collectables, and a guy with 
one may want to have a period specific set of disks for his machine.  

I was at the auction Friday, and there was a 1952 Seeburg 100 that went for 
$2k.  It will be torn down and given a solid refurb.  Buyer thought he would be 
putting $5k into getting it back to period and fully functional.

clay

On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off a 
> decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of 
> titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I don't 
> need an appraisal - read on.)
> 
> I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of 
> attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some 
> real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less than 
> it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot of 
> stuff they don't want outside of a few desirable records.
> 
> The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s.  All are 
> in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork specific 
> to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.
> 
> Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's pinball 
> machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my favorite 
> artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly after.  
> Can't say that I have ever put one on a turntable
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> Re: convenience
>> 
>> That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still beats 
>> digits with tube amplification.
>> 
>> G. M. Brown
>> Brevard, NC
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Rich Thomas]

There is a shop here in Charleston I was reading about the other day, it 
used to be a record store but that did not work out, so now they just 
sell on-line.  The owner said their biggest problem is finding enough 
inventory.  I tried to find the article but couldn't -- it might be 
these guys.  They are having a big sale/swap meet sort of thing in a 
coupla weeks.


www.*monstermusic*sc.com/

--R

On 2/26/12 3:48 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off a 
decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of titles, 
find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I don't need an 
appraisal - read on.)

I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of attempting 
to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some real gems in 
it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less than it's worth, or 
discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot of stuff they don't want 
outside of a few desirable records.

The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s.  All are in 
jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork specific to 
that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.

Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's pinball 
machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my favorite 
artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly after.  Can't 
say that I have ever put one on a turntable

Dan




Re: convenience

That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still beats 
digits with tube amplification.

G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC 


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Re: [MBZ] HP TouchPad

[Tim C]

On Feb 25, 2012 10:09 PM, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:
>
> Came through fine. It was just HTML instead of plain text. I would think
there is a tweak in the email program for that.

You'd think that because you never used WebOS. :)

Actually it isn't that bad, but everything else got better over the last
few years, while Palm stagnated.  We used WebOS on the Touchpads for about
a month, but there was just so much more stuff available on Android. (And
as a former Pre user I knew my way around!) Definitely haven't looked back.

Android I can see as a laptop replacement, WebOS was more of a portable
internet device with a barely-decent browser.

Best,
Tim

>
> Rick
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Jim Cathey]

I think the serial hybrid, like a Diesel/electric locomotive, is the 
way to
go - you get the effeciency of the electric drive train, and the 
freedom
form the grid to travel cross country. I like the design of the Volt - 
they

did a good job of managing the two poer sources.


The recharger should be a paint-can-sized turbine.

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/hybrids.html#REV


-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Jim Cathey]

Strangely its cheaper to refine oil here which has led the US to


I doubt it.

become a net exporter of gasoline which is what is driving our prices 
higher.


Europe has a huge tax overhead on fuel.  I think we're
subsidizing other countries' government when we sell
overseas.  Those excess fuel taxes don't go to the
dinosaurs, after all.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[OK Don]

Yes - the oil companies are international and dont care about national
boundries, beyond what the tax structures are. There is no "US" oil ---

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> You'd have to nationalize all "our" oil resources, which is to say you'd
> have to take them all, presumably by eminent domain. I'm sure that'll work
> out just fine...
>
> The thing is that the oil here isn't "ours" and while US oil demand is
> down, US oil production is UP and prices continue to rise.
> Strangely its cheaper to refine oil here which has led the US to become a
> net exporter of gasoline which is what is driving our prices higher.
>
> I was pondering this yesterday, what about an export tax, is such a thing
> legal? That should at least check some of the exports but unfortunately
> exports are politically positive...
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:58:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Dimitri Seretakis 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
> Message-ID:
> <1330286310.10354.yext-apple-iph...@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Please don't shoot me for saying this but if there is so much demand for
> oil from overpopulated countries like China and India then should we
> consider hoarding our oil or at least limiting the amount we export to
> these rapidly growing third world economies so that they don't deplete the
> worlds supply? What would be ramifications of such a plan?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[OK Don]

Perhaps break it up into groups, by artist or something.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> Most record shops buy vinyl.  You can have them give you a price and if you
> don't like it you don't have to sell it to them.  With so much competition
> on eBay and the cost of shipping that much weight what do you think you'd
> get and how much more or less would it be than the record shop?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > try   http://www.gocontinental.com/**pgde.htm<
> http://www.gocontinental.com/pgde.htm>
> >
> >
> >  Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell
> off
> >> a decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of
> >> titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I
> >> don't need an appraisal - read on.)
> >>
> >> I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of
> >> attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be
> some
> >> real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less
> >> than it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding because there's a
> lot
> >> of stuff they don't want outside of a few desirable records.
> >>
> >> The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s. All
> >> are in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork
> >> specific to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.
> >>
> >> Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's
> >> pinball machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list
> of my
> >> favorite artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s
> shortly
> >> after.  Can't say that I have ever put one on a turntable
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   Re: convenience
> >>>
> >>>  That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still
> >>> beats digits with tube amplification.
> >>>
> >>>  G. M. Brown
> >>>  Brevard, NC
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> __**_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __**_
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Curt Raymond]

You'd have to nationalize all "our" oil resources, which is to say you'd have 
to take them all, presumably by eminent domain. I'm sure that'll work out just 
fine...

The thing is that the oil here isn't "ours" and while US oil demand is down, US 
oil production is UP and prices continue to rise.
Strangely its cheaper to refine oil here which has led the US to become a net 
exporter of gasoline which is what is driving our prices higher.

I was pondering this yesterday, what about an export tax, is such a thing 
legal? That should at least check some of the exports but unfortunately exports 
are politically positive...

-Curt

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:58:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
Message-ID:
<1330286310.10354.yext-apple-iph...@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Please don't shoot me for saying this but if there is so much demand for oil 
from overpopulated countries like China and India then should we consider 
hoarding our oil or at least limiting the amount we export to these rapidly 
growing third world economies so that they don't deplete the worlds supply? 
What would be ramifications of such a plan? 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Brian Toscano]

Most record shops buy vinyl.  You can have them give you a price and if you
don't like it you don't have to sell it to them.  With so much competition
on eBay and the cost of shipping that much weight what do you think you'd
get and how much more or less would it be than the record shop?



On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> try   
> http://www.gocontinental.com/**pgde.htm
>
>
>  Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off
>> a decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of
>> titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I
>> don't need an appraisal - read on.)
>>
>> I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of
>> attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some
>> real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less
>> than it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot
>> of stuff they don't want outside of a few desirable records.
>>
>> The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s. All
>> are in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork
>> specific to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.
>>
>> Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's
>> pinball machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my
>> favorite artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly
>> after.  Can't say that I have ever put one on a turntable
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>   Re: convenience
>>>
>>>  That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still
>>> beats digits with tube amplification.
>>>
>>>  G. M. Brown
>>>  Brevard, NC
>>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables

[Dan Penoff]

That reminds me.  I have a Fisher 400 receiver sitting in the closet waiting to 
be recapped.  I even have all the caps, too.

A good project for the upcoming spring break, I guess

Dan


On Feb 26, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

> My vinyl is mostly once or twice played.  I moved it to analog mag tape.  The 
> tapes are so old (distorted) that I need to move the sounds on vinyl to some 
> other media.  Then I plan to sell the near new quality vinyl while the 
> markets are still pretty good.
> 
> The sound of my old tube type pioneer amp, even with really really poor 
> speakers is still very nice compared to the newer stuff.  The new stuff 
> doesn't sound as deep and full.
> 

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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Dieselhead]

try   http://www.gocontinental.com/pgde.htm

Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might 
sell off a decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, 
given a list of titles, find someone that would give me an unbiased 
opinion of value (I don't need an appraisal - read on.)


I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of 
attempting to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may 
be some real gems in it price-wise, and I might end up selling the 
lot for less than it's worth, or discouraging people from bidding 
because there's a lot of stuff they don't want outside of a few 
desirable records.


The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s. 
All are in jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with 
artwork specific to that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.


Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's 
pinball machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a 
list of my favorite artists and time frame.  He sent me this box 
full of 45s shortly after.  Can't say that I have ever put one on a 
turntable


Dan




 Re: convenience

 That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl 
still beats digits with tube amplification.


 G. M. Brown
 Brevard, NC			  		 



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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables

[Dieselhead]

My vinyl is mostly once or twice played.  I moved it to analog mag 
tape.  The tapes are so old (distorted) that I need to move the 
sounds on vinyl to some other media.  Then I plan to sell the near 
new quality vinyl while the markets are still pretty good.


The sound of my old tube type pioneer amp, even with really really 
poor speakers is still very nice compared to the newer stuff.  The 
new stuff doesn't sound as deep and full.



Re: convenience

That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl 
still beats digits with tube amplification.


G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC			  		 
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables - 45 rpm Record Values

[Dan Penoff]

Along these same lines, does anyone know of the best way I might sell off a 
decent sized (150+) collection of 45 RPM records?  Or, given a list of titles, 
find someone that would give me an unbiased opinion of value (I don't need an 
appraisal - read on.)

I am in the process of cataloging them right now in anticipation of attempting 
to eBay the lot.  My only real concern is that there may be some real gems in 
it price-wise, and I might end up selling the lot for less than it's worth, or 
discouraging people from bidding because there's a lot of stuff they don't want 
outside of a few desirable records.

The time range is from the early to mid 70s through the early 80s.  All are in 
jackets, maybe 25% of them in the original jackets with artwork specific to 
that release, and all are in VG to VG+ condition.

Also, I would add that these cost me nothing.  I worked on a guy's pinball 
machines for him one afternoon and he asked me to make a list of my favorite 
artists and time frame.  He sent me this box full of 45s shortly after.  Can't 
say that I have ever put one on a turntable

Dan



> Re: convenience
> 
> That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still beats 
> digits with tube amplification.
> 
> G. M. Brown
> Brevard, NC 


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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables

[Brian Toscano]

One of the biggest setbacks in music was the 1980's remastering when the CD
became the preferred consumer format.  Many of those original digital
remasters were not done very well by today's standards.  Some artists have
digitally remastered their albums a second time and the quality is much
better.  If you compare a 1980's Bob Dylan or CSN remaster to the original
LP (even a cheap used LP with imperfection), I think you'd prefer the LP
even on a cheap turntable.  For newer recordings that were done digitally,
I don't think there is any reason to play it on vinyl.

I prefer digital music for the convenience.  I can carry around my entire
collection on a hard drive.  With a backup stored safely outside of my
home, I don't have to worry about theft or fire destroying my collection.
 Plus its much easier to listen to something else.  With vinyl I'd have to
dig out the record and flip it over.  My 2nd turntable was a Thorens
without auto-shutoff so if I became preoccupied with something else, the
record would continue to spin until I remembered...


On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 1:12 PM, glenn brown  wrote:

>
> Re: convenience
>
> That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still
> beats digits with tube amplification.
>
> G. M. Brown
> Brevard, NC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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[MBZ] '70 220D 4-speed, all records, $3495

[Alex Chamberlain]

This looks like a good deal for somebody, assuming the heater blower works.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/2871136289.html

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables

[glenn brown]

Re: convenience
 
That's what the world of digits is all about.  Good analog vinyl still beats 
digits with tube amplification.
 
G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC   
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Please don't shoot me for saying this but if there is so much demand for oil 
from overpopulated countries like China and India then should we consider 
hoarding our oil or at least limiting the amount we export to these rapidly 
growing third world economies so that they don't deplete the worlds supply? 
What would be ramifications of such a plan? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2012, at 1:53 PM, OK Don  wrote:

I read yesterday that gas is expected to hit $5/gal by the end of the year,
due mostly to Iran and demand from China and India. What I haven't found is
a prediction of the cost spread between gasoline and Diesel.
We saw a two car accident on I-44 Friday night - a red Fiat 500 rear-ended
a cream colored one! There is a Fiat dealerin OKC, but I don't usually see
enough of them to expect them to be running into each other!

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

Isn't it amazing to see how fuel economy has become the big story lately?
Its always the "New 30mpg super-whatever" now rather than the "3000hp
super-whatever" that it was 2 years ago.

I think that the new hybrids/electric/whatevers helping push higher
efficiency in regular gas cars. Well I suppose $3.50/gal gas helps that too.

After the new Super Bowl commercial I really want to test-drive a Fiat 500
Abarth, then I looked up the specs and I really really want to test drive
one...


-Curt

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 09:45:45 -0500
From: Dan Penoff 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
Message-ID: <780f0312-9011-4283-b63d-2cf69f279...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I have to agree with Grant.  While I'm all for saving energy, the math
these people use, even if accurate, still fails to take a lot of the
upstream costs into account, especially the cost of generating the
electricity necessary to charge the thing.

I have to believe that if this is factored in accurately, an electric car,
coupled with the high cost of battery technology, is still far more
expensive from a cost per mile than one running on fossil fuels.

That being said, if solar costs could ever be brought into a manageable
range, if you lived in an area where solar made sense and you could
generate your own power, maybe, just maybe, it might approach a realistic
cost.

It's unlikely to happen in our lifetime, I believe, so that's not
something I'm counting on.

I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the
corporate CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient
cars, and I believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of
being realistic unless something spectacular would occur with battery
technology.

Where's that 100 MPG carburetor when you need it?



Dan


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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Rich Thomas]

Where can I get me summadat?

--R

On 2/26/12 1:42 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

If you get yourself a union suit and a hat with ear flaps you can even look 
like that old coot you used to make fun of.;)


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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[OK Don]

I read yesterday that gas is expected to hit $5/gal by the end of the year,
due mostly to Iran and demand from China and India. What I haven't found is
a prediction of the cost spread between gasoline and Diesel.
We saw a two car accident on I-44 Friday night - a red Fiat 500 rear-ended
a cream colored one! There is a Fiat dealerin OKC, but I don't usually see
enough of them to expect them to be running into each other!

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Isn't it amazing to see how fuel economy has become the big story lately?
> Its always the "New 30mpg super-whatever" now rather than the "3000hp
> super-whatever" that it was 2 years ago.
>
> I think that the new hybrids/electric/whatevers helping push higher
> efficiency in regular gas cars. Well I suppose $3.50/gal gas helps that too.
>
> After the new Super Bowl commercial I really want to test-drive a Fiat 500
> Abarth, then I looked up the specs and I really really want to test drive
> one...
>
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 09:45:45 -0500
> From: Dan Penoff 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
> Message-ID: <780f0312-9011-4283-b63d-2cf69f279...@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I have to agree with Grant.  While I'm all for saving energy, the math
> these people use, even if accurate, still fails to take a lot of the
> upstream costs into account, especially the cost of generating the
> electricity necessary to charge the thing.
>
> I have to believe that if this is factored in accurately, an electric car,
> coupled with the high cost of battery technology, is still far more
> expensive from a cost per mile than one running on fossil fuels.
>
> That being said, if solar costs could ever be brought into a manageable
> range, if you lived in an area where solar made sense and you could
> generate your own power, maybe, just maybe, it might approach a realistic
> cost.
>
> It's unlikely to happen in our lifetime, I believe, so that's not
> something I'm counting on.
>
> I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the
> corporate CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient
> cars, and I believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of
> being realistic unless something spectacular would occur with battery
> technology.
>
> Where's that 100 MPG carburetor when you need it?
>
> 
>
> Dan
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Suspensions, was: slooow

[Curt Raymond]

I've never considered a W123 to be particularly precise, even when sorted 
properly. A W201 on the other hand feels like its on rails. I haven't driven a 
W124 enough to have an opinion but considering its similarities to a W201 I'd 
figure it to be the same.


-Curt

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:26:26 -0600
From: OK Don 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: [MBZ] Suspensions, was: slooow
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I never felt that the 123s drove as nicely as the 115s. I always blamed it
on the loss of the double wishbone front suspension (cost savings), but it
could just be an emotional thing. The steering/handling just wasn't as
precise, frim ,or something. The 107 shares the front suspension with the
115 - I really liked the SDL, despite the weight.
I think the multi-link rear suspension on the 124 makes up for the front
suspension, or they improved it from the 123s - don't really know.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

>
>> Other than that the car was really quite nice.  If the stickshift
>> 123's drive anything like my 115 they'd be a real winner.
>>
>> -- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Dan Penoff]

I don't disagree with some of your points, I disagree with the misinformation 
that's being used to promote these as being "cheaper" and "environmentally 
friendly" to operate compared to an oil-fired automobile.  That is simply not 
the case, if anything, it's deceptive as the costs are considerably higher, I 
believe.

Dan


On Feb 26, 2012, at 1:42 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> 100 years ago you'd have been telling us "That new auto-carriage is crazy! 
> What idiot would pay for gasoline when you can feed a horse basically for 
> free? Why perform costly maintenance, it costs almost nothing to put a new 
> coat of paint on yonder buggy! As far as I can see the auto-carriage has no 
> future."
> 
> In 100 years people are going to look back at people like you and say "well 
> that guy was an idiot" but not because the Volt is such a great car, its not 
> and pretty much everybody admits it. Its because change is coming and the 
> Volt is one of the first of a new breed. Will they be electric? Hybrid? Synth 
> diesel? Natural gas? I don't have any idea but I know they're coming and 
> holding on to the old things just shows you as a scared old coot just like 
> the scared old coots you made fun of back in your day. If you get yourself a 
> union suit and a hat with ear flaps you can even look like that old coot you 
> used to make fun of. ;)
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Note: The above is partially my opinion and partially satire, I'll leave it 
> to you to figure out which is which.
> 
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 07:35:27 -0700
> From: G Mann 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Well good for them but it's still wonky math.
> 
> Ok.. so electric costs are .12 cents average Let's factor in the cars
> cost of $46.000 and divide that by the "projected" service life of the
> battery, plus battery replacement costs for service life of the car [got
> any idea how many miles this car will go?] , THEN amortize that true cost
> [plus any gasoline used, don't forget] into each mile driven.
> 
> I don't have those numbers to run with because of all the "hyperbole green
> spin" but my engineering gut tells me it will come in high for "cost per
> mile driven".
> 
> Now let's take a real hard look at the true emission profile. More than 80%
> of electric generation is done via coal fired plants, which although not in
> your green car back yard, are none the less emission factories belching
> 24/7 into the "carbon footprint" so you can plug in your "green car" and
> hide your emissions by using a clever hyperbole that the 'car didn't do
> it" Well. it does. For every hour you are "plugged in" and every hour
> you are driving that car, the power grid must "stand ready" with electric
> to "refill your tank [battery]"   Better add that to the math also to get a
> real picture.
> 
> This is getting long and it is a long equation.  Bottom line, oil was
> chosen because it was cheap, quick, easy, and "clean enough". As an energy,
> it has dominated for all those reasons and will continue despite "stimuli
> by government" for most of my remaining lifetime.
> 
> Grant...
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[OK Don]

At this point, you don't buy a hybrid or electric car for save money. You
do it because you want the exotic technology - the newest, latest thing.
Yeah, you get to brag about high mileage, but need to acknowledge that it's
smoke and mirrors, and that there is NO reduction in CO2 production.
Most of the recharging of a total electric car occurs at night when the
grid is under utilized - grid capacity shouldn't be much of an issue.
I think the serial hybrid, like a Diesel/electric locomotive, is the way to
go - you get the effeciency of the electric drive train, and the freedom
form the grid to travel cross country. I like the design of the Volt - they
did a good job of managing the two poer sources.
Most car purchases are emotional, not logical. We're "fans" of MBs, I can't
honestly say that they make the most sense economically, though I have
gotten excellent service from several relatively inexpensive older, high
mileage MBs. I do acknowledge that I'm a Mercedes bigot - no two ways about
it. I just like the engineering, and love Diesels.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Rick Knoble wrote:

> On Feb 26, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
>
> > I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the
> corporate CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient
> cars, and I believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of
> being realistic unless something spectacular would occur with battery
> technology.
>
> I am no fan of government intervention, but CAFE has worked in the past.
> It was probably the impetus for the Prius. Maybe a relaxation of EPA regs
> is in order. The Honda CRX used to get over 50 mpg twenty years ago. Same
> with the VW Jetta TDI. I am not a fan of world government either, but
> perhaps world standards for emissions and safety are in order. Then we
> could get more diesel MB's and maybe even the 70 mpg diesel Focus here in
> the US of A
>
> Rick
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Curt Raymond]

Isn't it amazing to see how fuel economy has become the big story lately? Its 
always the "New 30mpg super-whatever" now rather than the "3000hp 
super-whatever" that it was 2 years ago.

I think that the new hybrids/electric/whatevers helping push higher efficiency 
in regular gas cars. Well I suppose $3.50/gal gas helps that too.

After the new Super Bowl commercial I really want to test-drive a Fiat 500 
Abarth, then I looked up the specs and I really really want to test drive one...


-Curt

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 09:45:45 -0500
From: Dan Penoff 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
Message-ID: <780f0312-9011-4283-b63d-2cf69f279...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I have to agree with Grant.  While I'm all for saving energy, the math these 
people use, even if accurate, still fails to take a lot of the upstream costs 
into account, especially the cost of generating the electricity necessary to 
charge the thing.

I have to believe that if this is factored in accurately, an electric car, 
coupled with the high cost of battery technology, is still far more expensive 
from a cost per mile than one running on fossil fuels.

That being said, if solar costs could ever be brought into a manageable range, 
if you lived in an area where solar made sense and you could generate your own 
power, maybe, just maybe, it might approach a realistic cost.

It's unlikely to happen in our lifetime, I believe, so that's not something I'm 
counting on.

I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the corporate 
CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient cars, and I 
believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of being realistic 
unless something spectacular would occur with battery technology.

Where's that 100 MPG carburetor when you need it?



Dan


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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Curt Raymond]

100 years ago you'd have been telling us "That new auto-carriage is crazy! What 
idiot would pay for gasoline when you can feed a horse basically for free? Why 
perform costly maintenance, it costs almost nothing to put a new coat of paint 
on yonder buggy! As far as I can see the auto-carriage has no future."

In 100 years people are going to look back at people like you and say "well 
that guy was an idiot" but not because the Volt is such a great car, its not 
and pretty much everybody admits it. Its because change is coming and the Volt 
is one of the first of a new breed. Will they be electric? Hybrid? Synth 
diesel? Natural gas? I don't have any idea but I know they're coming and 
holding on to the old things just shows you as a scared old coot just like the 
scared old coots you made fun of back in your day. If you get yourself a union 
suit and a hat with ear flaps you can even look like that old coot you used to 
make fun of. ;)

-Curt

Note: The above is partially my opinion and partially satire, I'll leave it to 
you to figure out which is which.

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 07:35:27 -0700
From: G Mann 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Well good for them but it's still wonky math.

Ok.. so electric costs are .12 cents average Let's factor in the cars
cost of $46.000 and divide that by the "projected" service life of the
battery, plus battery replacement costs for service life of the car [got
any idea how many miles this car will go?] , THEN amortize that true cost
[plus any gasoline used, don't forget] into each mile driven.

I don't have those numbers to run with because of all the "hyperbole green
spin" but my engineering gut tells me it will come in high for "cost per
mile driven".

Now let's take a real hard look at the true emission profile. More than 80%
of electric generation is done via coal fired plants, which although not in
your green car back yard, are none the less emission factories belching
24/7 into the "carbon footprint" so you can plug in your "green car" and
hide your emissions by using a clever hyperbole that the 'car didn't do
it" Well. it does. For every hour you are "plugged in" and every hour
you are driving that car, the power grid must "stand ready" with electric
to "refill your tank [battery]"   Better add that to the math also to get a
real picture.

This is getting long and it is a long equation.  Bottom line, oil was
chosen because it was cheap, quick, easy, and "clean enough". As an energy,
it has dominated for all those reasons and will continue despite "stimuli
by government" for most of my remaining lifetime.

Grant...

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[MBZ] Suspensions, was: slooow

[OK Don]

I never felt that the 123s drove as nicely as the 115s. I always blamed it
on the loss of the double wishbone front suspension (cost savings), but it
could just be an emotional thing. The steering/handling just wasn't as
precise, frim ,or something. The 107 shares the front suspension with the
115 - I really liked the SDL, despite the weight.
I think the multi-link rear suspension on the 124 makes up for the front
suspension, or they improved it from the 123s - don't really know.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

>
>> Other than that the car was really quite nice.  If the stickshift
>> 123's drive anything like my 115 they'd be a real winner.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>


-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Rick Knoble]

On Feb 26, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:

> I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the 
> corporate CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient 
> cars, and I believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of being 
> realistic unless something spectacular would occur with battery technology.

I am no fan of government intervention, but CAFE has worked in the past. It was 
probably the impetus for the Prius. Maybe a relaxation of EPA regs is in order. 
The Honda CRX used to get over 50 mpg twenty years ago. Same with the VW Jetta 
TDI. I am not a fan of world government either, but perhaps world standards for 
emissions and safety are in order. Then we could get more diesel MB's and maybe 
even the 70 mpg diesel Focus here in the US of A

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

___
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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[Dan Penoff]

I have to agree with Grant.  While I'm all for saving energy, the math these 
people use, even if accurate, still fails to take a lot of the upstream costs 
into account, especially the cost of generating the electricity necessary to 
charge the thing.

I have to believe that if this is factored in accurately, an electric car, 
coupled with the high cost of battery technology, is still far more expensive 
from a cost per mile than one running on fossil fuels.

That being said, if solar costs could ever be brought into a manageable range, 
if you lived in an area where solar made sense and you could generate your own 
power, maybe, just maybe, it might approach a realistic cost.

It's unlikely to happen in our lifetime, I believe, so that's not something I'm 
counting on.

I think the best place to put our development dollars is to raise the corporate 
CAFE standards.  If Detroit is forced to develop more efficient cars, and I 
believe they can, electric vehicles won't stand a chance of being realistic 
unless something spectacular would occur with battery technology.

Where's that 100 MPG carburetor when you need it?



Dan

On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:35 AM, G Mann wrote:

> Well good for them but it's still wonky math.
> 
> Ok.. so electric costs are .12 cents average Let's factor in the cars
> cost of $46.000 and divide that by the "projected" service life of the
> battery, plus battery replacement costs for service life of the car [got
> any idea how many miles this car will go?] , THEN amortize that true cost
> [plus any gasoline used, don't forget] into each mile driven.
> 
> I don't have those numbers to run with because of all the "hyperbole green
> spin" but my engineering gut tells me it will come in high for "cost per
> mile driven".
> 
> Now let's take a real hard look at the true emission profile. More than 80%
> of electric generation is done via coal fired plants, which although not in
> your green car back yard, are none the less emission factories belching
> 24/7 into the "carbon footprint" so you can plug in your "green car" and
> hide your emissions by using a clever hyperbole that the 'car didn't do
> it" Well. it does. For every hour you are "plugged in" and every hour
> you are driving that car, the power grid must "stand ready" with electric
> to "refill your tank [battery]"   Better add that to the math also to get a
> real picture.
> 
> This is getting long and it is a long equation.  Bottom line, oil was
> chosen because it was cheap, quick, easy, and "clean enough". As an energy,
> it has dominated for all those reasons and will continue despite "stimuli
> by government" for most of my remaining lifetime.
> 
> Grant...
> 
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Gerry Archer wrote:
> 
>> Gerry wrote:
>> I sent the Fox News article to a friend who has owned a Volt for 3 or 4
>> months. This lady is a medical research tech and her husband is a
>> microbiologist.  Both are dedicated to extreme accuracy so I wouldn't
>> question their math.
>> This is her reply:
>> 
>> "Thanks for sending. When I read over a DOLLAR per kwh I knew something
>> was wrong with the article. We pay about 10 CENTS per kwh and snopes said
>> the national average is about 12 cents. It costs us about a dollar to
>> charge the battery vs $18 in article. We go 45 to 50 miles for a dollar
>> charge up, not 25 miles for $18. Somebody made up some atrocious math. You
>> can go down to 25 miles per charge if it is very cold or you go very fast.
>> We drove the car about 400 miles last week without charging and averaged
>> about 45 mi per gallon because is was mostly on gas. On battery alone then
>> charge up at night and never use gas we get almost 100 mpg equivalent."
>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chevyvolt.asp
>> ---
>> 
>> Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy
>> Volt at the invitation of General Motors.
>> 
>> For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
>> before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
>> 
>> Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
>> battery.
>> So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is
>> approximately 270 miles.
>> It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph.
>> Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of
>> 14.5 hours.
>> 270 miles in 14.5 hours would be < 20 mph average speed.
>> 
>> According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity.
>> It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.The cost for the
>> electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay
>> for electricity.I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the
>> seasons) $1.16 per kwh.16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the
>> battery.$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate
>> the Volt using the batt

Re: [MBZ] OT. turn tables ??

[Dan Penoff]

Yeah, dang it.

No way to make it send in plain text, unfortunately.

Guess I'm going to have to jailbreak it and run Android 4.0...

Dan


On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:37 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:

> lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: 
>> <http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120226/7dd00e7d/attachment.html>
> 
> It looks like you're still transmitting in html...
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT. turn tables ??

[Mitch Haley]

lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
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It looks like you're still transmitting in html...

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Re: [MBZ] OT. turn tables ??

[lwb250]

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Re: [MBZ] Volt Owner

[G Mann]

Well good for them but it's still wonky math.

Ok.. so electric costs are .12 cents average Let's factor in the cars
cost of $46.000 and divide that by the "projected" service life of the
battery, plus battery replacement costs for service life of the car [got
any idea how many miles this car will go?] , THEN amortize that true cost
[plus any gasoline used, don't forget] into each mile driven.

I don't have those numbers to run with because of all the "hyperbole green
spin" but my engineering gut tells me it will come in high for "cost per
mile driven".

Now let's take a real hard look at the true emission profile. More than 80%
of electric generation is done via coal fired plants, which although not in
your green car back yard, are none the less emission factories belching
24/7 into the "carbon footprint" so you can plug in your "green car" and
hide your emissions by using a clever hyperbole that the 'car didn't do
it" Well. it does. For every hour you are "plugged in" and every hour
you are driving that car, the power grid must "stand ready" with electric
to "refill your tank [battery]"   Better add that to the math also to get a
real picture.

This is getting long and it is a long equation.  Bottom line, oil was
chosen because it was cheap, quick, easy, and "clean enough". As an energy,
it has dominated for all those reasons and will continue despite "stimuli
by government" for most of my remaining lifetime.

Grant...

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> Gerry wrote:
> I sent the Fox News article to a friend who has owned a Volt for 3 or 4
> months. This lady is a medical research tech and her husband is a
> microbiologist.  Both are dedicated to extreme accuracy so I wouldn't
> question their math.
> This is her reply:
>
> "Thanks for sending. When I read over a DOLLAR per kwh I knew something
> was wrong with the article. We pay about 10 CENTS per kwh and snopes said
> the national average is about 12 cents. It costs us about a dollar to
> charge the battery vs $18 in article. We go 45 to 50 miles for a dollar
> charge up, not 25 miles for $18. Somebody made up some atrocious math. You
> can go down to 25 miles per charge if it is very cold or you go very fast.
> We drove the car about 400 miles last week without charging and averaged
> about 45 mi per gallon because is was mostly on gas. On battery alone then
> charge up at night and never use gas we get almost 100 mpg equivalent."
>  http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chevyvolt.asp
> ---
>
> Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy
> Volt at the invitation of General Motors.
>
> For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles
> before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
>
> Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the
> battery.
> So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is
> approximately 270 miles.
> It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph.
> Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of
> 14.5 hours.
> 270 miles in 14.5 hours would be < 20 mph average speed.
>
> According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity.
> It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.The cost for the
> electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay
> for electricity.I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the
> seasons) $1.16 per kwh.16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the
> battery.$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate
> the Volt using the battery.
>
> Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32
> mpg.$4.00 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.125 per mile.
> Gasoline prices would have to rise to $23.68/gal to break even
> (assuming the cost for electricity -–to charge the Volt’s batteries –-
> remained unchanged).
> The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.
>
> So we are encouraged to pay 3 times as much for a car
> that costs more that 7 times as much to run
> and takes 3 times as long to drive across country.
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT. turn tables ??

[lwb250]

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Re: [MBZ] OT. turn tables ??

[lwb250]

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: slooow

[Jim Cathey]

And my 77hp '78 300D could not climb eastbound Snoqualmie Pass at full
throttle without shifting down to 3rd which means 45mph in a 60 zone.


Ayup, that would be one.  Also problematic were the hills at
Vantage, the pass between Ellensburg and Yakima, White Pass,
and the hill out of Spokane.  Second slowest vehicle I've ever
driven, the only thing worse was my Unimog.  (Which has something
like a 10,000# weight penalty!)

Other than that the car was really quite nice.  If the stickshift
123's drive anything like my 115 they'd be a real winner.

-- Jim



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[MBZ] Volt Owner

[Gerry Archer]

Gerry wrote:
I sent the Fox News article to a friend who has owned a Volt for 3 or 4 months. 
This lady is a medical research tech and her husband is a microbiologist.  Both 
are dedicated to extreme accuracy so I wouldn't question their math.
This is her reply:

"Thanks for sending. When I read over a DOLLAR per kwh I knew something was 
wrong with the article. We pay about 10 CENTS per kwh and snopes said the 
national average is about 12 cents. It costs us about a dollar to charge the 
battery vs $18 in article. We go 45 to 50 miles for a dollar charge up, not 25 
miles for $18. Somebody made up some atrocious math. You can go down to 25 
miles per charge if it is very cold or you go very fast. We drove the car about 
400 miles last week without charging and averaged about 45 mi per gallon 
because is was mostly on gas. On battery alone then charge up at night and 
never use gas we get almost 100 mpg equivalent."
 http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chevyvolt.asp  
--- 

Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy 
Volt at the invitation of General Motors. 

For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles 
before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. 

Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the 
battery. 
So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is 
approximately 270 miles. 
It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. 
Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 
14.5 hours. 
270 miles in 14.5 hours would be < 20 mph average speed. 

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. 
It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.The cost for the 
electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay 
for electricity.I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the 
seasons) $1.16 per kwh.16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the 
battery.$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate 
the Volt using the battery. 

Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 
mpg.$4.00 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.125 per mile. 
Gasoline prices would have to rise to $23.68/gal to break even 
(assuming the cost for electricity -–to charge the Volt’s batteries –- 
remained unchanged). 
The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000. 

So we are encouraged to pay 3 times as much for a car 
that costs more that 7 times as much to run 
and takes 3 times as long to drive across country. 

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Re: [MBZ] HP TouchPad

[Dan Penoff]

Unfortunately not. I saw it as an embedded link that when clicked on revealed 
the message text and accompanying HTML.

Hmm.

Dan

On Feb 25, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Rick Knoble  wrote:

> Came through fine. It was just HTML instead of plain text. I would think 
> there is a tweak in the email program for that. 
> 
> Rick
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] USB turn tables

[Fmiser]

> Dieselhead wrote:

> Sounds like turntable, receiver/amp, audacity is the thing.
> 
> Pain in the butt to have to separate tracks and add titles and
> such.

It's not really too bad if you know the tricks

0. Set the time display to CDDA frames from the pop-up menu at
   the bottom of the window.  This is OPTIONAL - important
   only for creating a CUE file.  See 5.2.

1. Record the whole disk to one file

2. Add a label track.
   "Tracks > Add new... > Label track".

3. Move, zoom, position the playhead, play, etc as necessary
   to figure out exactly where you want a track to start. 

4. Click on the label track at this position.  Type in the
   song or LP-track name.  This text will become the filename
   for this track, so treat it accordingly. (lower case, no
   spaces, artist-disk-track, etc)

5. Once all the songs are labeled, export them as separate
   files using "File > Export Multiple..."  This will create a
   separate file for each section between the labels in your
   big file.

  5.1. From the dialog box you can even choose to let Audacity
   create your MP3 files - if you have the LAME library
   install and actually care to _use_ MP3.  Or choose OGG,
   or flac, or wav.

6. At the same time, you could export a text file that
   describes the starttime of each song.  This is the data
   needed to create a CUE file.  But if want a CUE file, do
   yourself a favor and set "Snap To" on and choose "CDDA
   frame"

   A CUE file is used to tell the CD burning program where to
   place the breaks between CD tracks.  Handy, but not
   critical unless you want a CD with no silence between
   songs.  Pink Floyd is good for doing that sort of thing.

7. I use replay-gain to adjust the level of the songs to a
   consistent _perceptual_ level.  With flac, ogg, or mp3 this
   is done with a tag so no audio is changed.  With a .wav,
   the actual audio level can be adjusted.  I don't know of
   anyway to calculate replay-gain from within Audacity

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain
   http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ReplayGain_specification
   
--Philip

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