Re: [MBZ] OT: mail clients

[Brian Toscano]

Webmail is a Web based mail program.  If the user interface uses IMAP to
connect to the server, it is completely hidden from the user.

IMAP and POP are RFC defined protocols that allow mail programs to exchange
messages with a remote server.  IMAP offers many more capabilities than POP
for managing messages stored in the server.  However, like you say, if you
have an intermittent connection to the server, generally POP is better
because it forces the client to implement mail management locally.  IMAP
does not mean messages must be stored on the server - they can be stored on
the local machine as well.

Google had mail threading before Yahoo (the Webmail I used before Google).



On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Fmiser  wrote:

> > Brian Toscano wrote:
>
> > Just wondering how many people prefer to use a Webmail program
> > like Gmail or Yahoo vs using IMAP to download mail into a
> > program that runs on a local computer, like Apples Mail
> > program?
>
> Webmail is a form of IMAP, where the messages reside on the
> server.  Without extra features, an IMAP client is useless
> without a connection to the server and the client becomes simply
> a remote control device.
>
> POP3 is the method where the server simply delivers the mail.
> The local client does all the rest.  Sorting, filtering,
> storing, etc.
>
> If you have intermittent network connection, POP3 is usually a
> better choice.  If you want your mailbox and it's folders to
> keep up with you using different computers IMAP is typically
> better.
>
> > I've used Gmail on the web since it came out, largely because
> > it offered threading that made mailing lists easy to use.
>
> There were a lot of clients that had threading before Gmail
> existed.
>
> I use a Gmail address - but I don't use their web client.  I
> download all the mail to my local system.  But how I "do" email
> is likely not even close to typical...
>
> --   Philip
>
>
> ___
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[MBZ] Poli-ticks

[Jim Cathey]

...you wouldn't happen to be interested in running for president.
...common sense like that [would] be a great asset!


Anyone capable of doing a good job is not even remotely
qualified to _get_ that job, and it's a thankless task
to begin with.  Also, as has been said before, anyone who
wants such a job is automatically unqualified to hold it.

We're all idiots anyway, they advertise that job like it's
for King, or Dictator-for-life, and we vote that way, then
everybody bitches 'cause that's not what he's able to do once
there.

Yet.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Xenons/LEDs

[Fmiser]

> Jim Cathey wrote:

> The brightness arms race bothers me.  
> 
> There are _other_ things that need to be seen while driving
> than _your_ stinkin' lamps!

Yeah!  You tell 'em Jim!!

Say, you wouldn't happen to be interested in running for
president.  With common sense like that you'd be a great asset!
Though with common sense like that you'd probably never get
elected *sigh*

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] OT: mail clients

[Fmiser]

> Brian Toscano wrote:

> Just wondering how many people prefer to use a Webmail program
> like Gmail or Yahoo vs using IMAP to download mail into a
> program that runs on a local computer, like Apples Mail
> program?

Webmail is a form of IMAP, where the messages reside on the
server.  Without extra features, an IMAP client is useless
without a connection to the server and the client becomes simply
a remote control device.

POP3 is the method where the server simply delivers the mail.
The local client does all the rest.  Sorting, filtering,
storing, etc.

If you have intermittent network connection, POP3 is usually a
better choice.  If you want your mailbox and it's folders to
keep up with you using different computers IMAP is typically
better.

> I've used Gmail on the web since it came out, largely because
> it offered threading that made mailing lists easy to use.

There were a lot of clients that had threading before Gmail
existed.

I use a Gmail address - but I don't use their web client.  I
download all the mail to my local system.  But how I "do" email
is likely not even close to typical...

--   Philip


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Re: [MBZ] Xenons/LEDs

[Jim Cathey]

I didn't ask about strobing for Xenons. I asked about "problems" 
because
some people complain about oncoming Xenons being too bright and I 
wonder if

the persons complaining about LED strobing are the same people.


The brightness arms race bothers me.  The trend towards brighter
point sources bothers me, it makes me want to squint and look away,
which can't possibly be good for safety.  I have good twilight vision,
always have, which may be a factor.  The strobing also bothers me,
but it's a separate irritant from the sudden lumens change from LED
turn/brake lights, and the overly bright point sources of most LED's,
and projector lamps of all stripes.

There are _other_ things that need to be seen while driving
than _your_ stinkin' lamps!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[G Mann]

Hahahaha... so what's the co-pay for the "smokes, hookers, meth twinkie
plan".

How do you get to be an insurance agent for the Darwinian Agency?  Seems
payment collection could pose a problem. ;))

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 6:27 PM, clay monroe  wrote:

> H.
>
> I think Darwinian health care is what is needed.  If you make the choices
> that lead to poor health, you get to be on Darwin Insurance.  You must pay
> an amount equal to the money spent on those activities that are impacting
> your health.  Smokes, slurpees,  twinkies, candy bars, hookers, meth, video
> gaming.  That is bound to add up over time.
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Allan Streib wrote:
>
> > G Mann  writes:
> >
> >> I offer the idea that we educate children to care for themselves and
> others
> >> with basic first aid and perhaps advanced care. When I was age 4 a dog
> bit
> >> my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
> >> skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]  She had raised 11 children at a
> >> time when you took care of your own, the country doctor was as good as
> it
> >> got, and people stood on their own two feet.
> >
> > I do think a big part of the problem is people not wanting to take ANY
> > responsibility for their own health.  You get people 300+ lbs, diabetic,
> > hypertensive, show up at the ER once a week with some complaint (with a
> > stop at the 7-11 on the way for cigs, a 64 oz soda and a candy bar), and
> > expect a shot or a pill to make it all better and when it doesn't happen
> > they thing they've been wronged somehow.  Or maybe they need surgery but
> > they are in such poor health otherwise that recovery is full of
> > complications... again they don't want to hear that any of it might be
> > on them.  On top of all that they aren't paying for anything themselves
> > thanks to medicaid.  This kind of stuff sapps a ton of resources out of
> > the medical system, I'm sure.
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1979 300SD
> >
> > ___
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> >
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>
>
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[MBZ] OT: mail clients

[Brian Toscano]

Just wondering how many people prefer to use a Webmail program like Gmail or 
Yahoo vs using IMAP to download mail into a program that runs on a local 
computer, like Apples Mail program?  I've used Gmail on the web since it came 
out, largely because it offered threading that made mailing lists easy to use.  
I had my BlackBerry set to skip mailing list mail because I only needed that 
when at my computer.  My BlackBerry died at the end of June and I replaced it 
with an iPhone.  Now I'm reconsidering my Mail setup.


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Re: [MBZ] LED/Xenon headlights

[RELNGSON]

> a much simpler solution than that.  H4 LED lamp.  Same as halogen 
> bulb used in the euros..
> 
H4 is a twin filament headlight bulb, high and low. I have a pair of them 
(100/160W) in my Porsche's Z-Beams. What LED bulb are you referring to?

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[clay monroe]

And you could conscript the upper level kidlets to intern there to get practice 
in medical dental office magic.   Good for school credit, but probably an 
insurance nightmare for the district.


On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:24 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> I would like to see our school district go to a district-owned clinic, as 
> another district in the area has done.
> 
> One of the biggest complaints among the instructional staff is having to take 
> a day off if they have a doctor's appointment, since it's nearly impossible 
> to get an appointment at a time that school is out for the day.
> 
> The clinic could run at later hours so people could get in and not have to 
> take a day off.  Not to mention, if we managed our general care, it would be 
> a heck of a lot cheaper than having paying Humana to do it.
> 
> We have 29,000 employees.  Add to that the dependents and you can see the 
> economies of scale working to our advantage
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Jul 8, 2012, at 9:18 PM, clay monroe wrote:
> 
>> Concierge care.  I use that.  Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal 
>> with at standard medico visit.  Get all the time you need to explore all 
>> issues.  MD is more relaxed too.  Office staff reduced to the two 
>> receptionist, instead of a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves.   
>> Easier for them to budget for the year and lower overhead that is reflected 
>> in a higher quality  experience once you enter the door.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote:
>> 
>>> A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this 
>>> deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are 
>>> covered.  Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.
>>> 
>>> Allan Streib  wrote:
 
 There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
 insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Max Dillon
>>> Charleston SC
>>> '95 E300, '87 300TD
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 190D is now on ebay

[Rick Knoble]

I thought you gave up on eBay. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:14 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> bid to win
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150852942106
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Xenons/LEDs

[Rick Knoble]

On Jul 8, 2012, at 5:33 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

> I didn't ask about strobing for Xenons. I asked about "problems" because 
> some people complain about oncoming Xenons being too bright and I wonder if 
> the persons complaining about LED strobing are the same people.


Possibly. LED strobing bothers me. Oncoming HIDs don't, however, in the rear 
view mirror they do appear to change colors to me. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Joe Sasser]

Kaleb, are you not getting ANY of the e-mails I send you anymore?


On Jul 8, 2012, at 8:08 PM, mercedes-requ...@okiebenz.com wrote:

> Send Mercedes mailing list submissions to
>   mercedes@okiebenz.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   mercedes-requ...@okiebenz.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   mercedes-ow...@okiebenz.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mercedes digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: 1984 190D for sale (Kaleb C. Striplin)
>   2. Re: 1984 190D for sale (WILTON)
>   3. Re: Xenons/LEDs (relng...@aol.com)
>   4. Re: G, GLK, GL. ML... (relng...@aol.com)
>   5. Re: G, GLK, GL. ML... (Kaleb C. Striplin)
>   6. Re: OT: rust converter (Dimitri Seretakis)
>   7. 190D video (Kaleb C. Striplin)
>   8. Re: POS limo (relng...@aol.com)
>   9. Re: 109D turd (relng...@aol.com)
>  10. Re: G, GLK, GL. ML... (Rich Thomas)
>  11. Re: 109D turd (Kaleb C. Striplin)
>  12. 190D is now on ebay (Kaleb C. Striplin)
>  13. Re: LED lights idiotic? (clay monroe)
>  14. Re: LED/Xenon headlights? (clay monroe)
>  15. Re: dirty oil flush (clay monroe)
>  16. Re: dirty oils done dirt cheap done M1 (clay monroe)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:10:06 -0500
> From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Just now put it out there.
> On 7/8/2012 5:04 PM, Bob Rentfro wrote:
>> For me? Too cheap for me? Never too cheap. Why, do you have people lining
>> up at Okie Acres to look at it.
>> 
>> Bob R
>> On Jul 8, 2012 2:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Maybe I have it priced too cheap?
>>> 
>>> On 7/8/2012 3:27 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>>> 
 I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when I
 bought my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for $2950
 and thought I got a great deal.
 
 Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
 From: Rich Thomas 
 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
 Message-ID: 
 <4FF9D649.3070502@**constructivity.net<4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it
 only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the
 best oil?
 
 Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it
 but only if you wax it first.
 
 --R
 
 On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 
> I have a car for sale at the the moment.
> 
> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/**cto/3126309068.html
> 
>  __**_
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
 
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 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5118 - Release Date: 07/08/12
 
 
 
>>> 
>>> __**_
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>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>> 
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>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5118 - Release Date: 07/08/12
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 18:12:47 -0400
> From: "WILTON" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
> Message-ID: <6D3CDC3D55E6428598D4367F16CE56D7@wiltonPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; 

Re: [MBZ] OT: rust converter

[clay monroe]

POR 15.

Three step process that is just as you outline.  Wire brush or sand to bare 
metal and thorough rust removal.  Use the marine cleaner they sell.  Spray on 
and agitate any surface dirt that comes off.  Rinse it off.  Then you use the 
etching spray as the second part of the process.  It needs to be kept moist for 
about 20 minutes.  Turns the rust into a black oxidate and prepares the 
surface.  Get the work site bone dry and you can use pressure spray, roller or 
brush to coat.

This stuff is soupy and cures by moisture.  Also thin coating, so it goes a 
lggg way.  brush on will allow enough time to let it set up between 
coats. Three coats are good.  More will not hurt.  Rust is never going to go 
away.  You have to cut any rust out to get it gone.  The POR encapsulates the 
rust and any wet that gets on it, just makes it harder.  

Sadly, the stuff is not UV stable or abrasion/contusion resistant.  You then 
have to use the POR Primer product to etch the surface to accept paint or 
undercoating.



On Jul 8, 2012, at 11:40 AM, Allan Streib wrote:

> I recall someone posting here about a liquid rust converter that worked
> reasonably well.  I have some undercarriage rust on my Nissan truck that
> I want to try to stop or at least slow down.  My plan is to wire brush,
> treat, then maybe POR-15 paint over it.
> 
> Thoughts?  I'd prefer something I can spray from a hand sprayer, not
> anything thick/brush-on.  I know that POR-15 has a converter spray.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
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Re: [MBZ] G, GLK, GL. ML...

[OK Don]

I use my ML for dragging things around the place - like tree trunks (as
well as ordinary driving). The granny gear and all wheel drive does a great
job of moving heavy things.

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> I do.
>
> --R
>
>
> On 7/8/12 6:44 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Nobody needs any of these things for runs to Starbuck's or the mall.
>>
>
>
>
> __**_
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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[clay monroe]

H.

I think Darwinian health care is what is needed.  If you make the choices that 
lead to poor health, you get to be on Darwin Insurance.  You must pay an amount 
equal to the money spent on those activities that are impacting your health.  
Smokes, slurpees,  twinkies, candy bars, hookers, meth, video gaming.  That is 
bound to add up over time.



On Jul 8, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Allan Streib wrote:

> G Mann  writes:
> 
>> I offer the idea that we educate children to care for themselves and others
>> with basic first aid and perhaps advanced care. When I was age 4 a dog bit
>> my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
>> skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]  She had raised 11 children at a
>> time when you took care of your own, the country doctor was as good as it
>> got, and people stood on their own two feet.
> 
> I do think a big part of the problem is people not wanting to take ANY
> responsibility for their own health.  You get people 300+ lbs, diabetic,
> hypertensive, show up at the ER once a week with some complaint (with a
> stop at the 7-11 on the way for cigs, a 64 oz soda and a candy bar), and
> expect a shot or a pill to make it all better and when it doesn't happen
> they thing they've been wronged somehow.  Or maybe they need surgery but
> they are in such poor health otherwise that recovery is full of
> complications... again they don't want to hear that any of it might be
> on them.  On top of all that they aren't paying for anything themselves
> thanks to medicaid.  This kind of stuff sapps a ton of resources out of
> the medical system, I'm sure.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

I would like to see our school district go to a district-owned clinic, as 
another district in the area has done.

One of the biggest complaints among the instructional staff is having to take a 
day off if they have a doctor's appointment, since it's nearly impossible to 
get an appointment at a time that school is out for the day.

The clinic could run at later hours so people could get in and not have to take 
a day off.  Not to mention, if we managed our general care, it would be a heck 
of a lot cheaper than having paying Humana to do it.

We have 29,000 employees.  Add to that the dependents and you can see the 
economies of scale working to our advantage

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 9:18 PM, clay monroe wrote:

> Concierge care.  I use that.  Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal 
> with at standard medico visit.  Get all the time you need to explore all 
> issues.  MD is more relaxed too.  Office staff reduced to the two 
> receptionist, instead of a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves.   
> Easier for them to budget for the year and lower overhead that is reflected 
> in a higher quality  experience once you enter the door.
> 
> clay
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote:
> 
>> A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal 
>> where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are 
>> covered.  Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.
>> 
>> Allan Streib  wrote:
>>> 
>>> There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
>>> insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '95 E300, '87 300TD
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[clay monroe]

Concierge care.  I use that.  Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal with 
at standard medico visit.  Get all the time you need to explore all issues.  MD 
is more relaxed too.  Office staff reduced to the two receptionist, instead of 
a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves.   Easier for them to budget for 
the year and lower overhead that is reflected in a higher quality  experience 
once you enter the door.

clay



On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

> A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal 
> where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are 
> covered.  Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.
> 
> Allan Streib  wrote:
>> 
>> There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
>> insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300, '87 300TD
> 
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Re: [MBZ] dirty oils done dirt cheap done M1

[clay monroe]

M1 did wonders in Gump for 8 years, then the engine suffered metal death on the 
rocker arms.  Metal fatigue at 300kmile


On Jul 7, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> Well, I reckon you would be foolish to waste $$$'s on M1 in an engine 
> that is old, sure if you rebuild the engine and it is nice and shiny inside 
> then extendes M1 use would the go.
> 
> Hendrik
> who doesn't use M1
> 
> On 08/07/12 05:27, clay monroe wrote:
>> Changed over to castrol diesel stuff.  Seems to have a minor impact on 
>> pressure.  Will keep going with changes and see if it gets better.  If the 
>> sediment is flushed out that way, I should be able to use M1
>> 
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] dirty oil flush

[clay monroe]

I am not flushing the thing.  I am going to keep putting fresh oil in, until  
what comes out looks good longer and less like it was run hard in a diesel 
engine.


On Jul 7, 2012, at 7:08 PM, Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> Might pay to pull the rocker covers off to see what the go is.
> If you're game you can do an engine flush but I would definitely want to know 
> what I am up against.
> An engine flush might dislodge all sorts of nasties that can block up the oil 
> passages.
> 
> Hendrik
> who is thinking about a flush for the Izuzu
> 
> On 04/07/12 10:52, Brian Toscano wrote:
>> I'd just change oil and filter every 500-1000 miles until that stops.  If
>> it doesn't get another engine.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 6:49 PM, clay monroe  wrote:
>> 
>>> It smells like worn out oil.  Sad that it should after so few miles or
>>> time.  Not burned, just used.  Like M1 after 6k miles in a 220D.  No water
>>> in the oil, not whipped up or foamy, no excessive gritty feel to it when
>>> rubbed between fingers.  It is like an oil vampire sucked all the additives
>>> out of it and left anemic oil behind
>>> 
>>> clay
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] LED/Xenon headlights?

[clay monroe]

Roger,

a much simpler solution than that.  H4 LED lamp.  Same as halogen bulb used in 
the euros

On Jul 7, 2012, at 4:13 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

>> I was thinking about swapping in LED to the headlamps.  Pretty cost 
>> ineffective if that application would not work.  The glare shield in the 
>> euro lamps reduces light bleed head on and a bit to the side.  Not silvered 
>> so 
>> it does not reflect photons back toward the reflectors...
>> 
> You can't because there is no such conversion kit. And if you are thinking 
> about a Xenon conversion, they put out lots of light but it's too bright to 
> oncoming traffic because there is no filament and Xenons cannot be dimmed or 
> flashed. 
> 
> My OE Bi-Xenons have a solenoid controlled shutter that drops over the 
> single bulb for low beam which is the industry standard method.
> 
> RLE
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] LED lights idiotic?

[clay monroe]

Would something like this resolve the issue?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-bulb-turn-signal-hazard-flasher-relay-load-resistor-/360409867522?hash=item53ea1a2502&item=360409867522&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr#ht_5953wt_907

If so, where am I supposed to look to find the one on a 1974 w107 that I would 
swap out?



On Jul 7, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Fmiser wrote:

>> Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
> 
>> I assume we're talking about putting LEDs in older cars to
>> replace traditional light bulbs...
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> I'd be very weary to replace a bulb with LEDs unless you buy
>> one of the pre-made solutions.
> 
> That's what Clay did.
> 
>> Home-made solutions simply lack reliability, and do you really
>> want to risk not having a basic safety feature as lighting?
>> Will a home-made solution work from -30F to +130F for years?
>> In extreems of humidity and vibration?  The factory solution
>> will... its been designed tested to do so.
> 
> The discussion is around how to get the blinking lights to blink
> at the correct rate because the flasher drive depends on the
> lamp current as part of the timing cycle.  The LEDs draw much
> less current, so the timing is off.  The homemade part involves
> modifying the _flasher_ to accommodate the LED current draw.
> 
> And to say "Home-made solutions simply lack reliability" is a
> very broad statement.  They might lack reliability.  So might
> the commercial products.  If I'm replacing incandescent
> lamps with LEDs,  my replacements will almost certainly work
> better "from -30F to +130F for years? In extreems of
> humidity and vibration?".  That's the nature of an LED.
> 
>> My opinion:  if you want modern technologies in your old car,
>> do it right: buy a properly engineer solution or buy a newer
>> car.
> 
> My opinion:  if you want modern technologies in your old car, do
> it right and do it yourself because there is no way to verify
> the engineering of pre-made, aftermarket products.
> 
> -- Philip
> 
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[MBZ] 190D is now on ebay

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

bid to win

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150852942106

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Re: [MBZ] 109D turd

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

That is what color the window sticker says it is.
On 7/8/2012 6:01 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

...Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama


And Biscayne Blue is an old Chevrolet color.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] G, GLK, GL. ML...

[Rich Thomas]

I do.

--R

On 7/8/12 6:44 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

Nobody needs any of these things for runs to Starbuck's or the mall.




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Re: [MBZ] 109D turd

[RELNGSON]

> ...Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama
> 
And Biscayne Blue is an old Chevrolet color.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] POS limo

[RELNGSON]

> ...Do you think the Martha treatment could help that car?..
> 
What that gem needs is one pass from a Leopard tank.

RLE
> 
> 
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[MBZ] 190D video

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ems_xl8tOkg

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Re: [MBZ] OT: rust converter

[Dimitri Seretakis]

In my opinion, rust converters don't work. Remove as much rust as possible then 
apply POR-15. Be sure to follow prep steps which include Marine clean and the 
metal prep. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:

Dan Penoff  writes:

What's wrong with using POR-15 as-is?

Hm well maybe nothing.  I assumed it would be better to treat the
rust first.

AAllan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] G, GLK, GL. ML...

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

The GL could almost replace my truck for towing purposes.

On 7/8/2012 5:44 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

What exactly is the difference between a GL and ML, they look the
same
to me. Is a GL halfway between a G and ML?


A G is an overpriced antique, dating back decades and is no pleasure to
drive. They are mostly just status symbols.

The GLK is the smallest of the lot but isn't cheap and shares some engines
with the ML and GL. The ML was the first MB SUV, made in Alabama and
Austria. The GL is much larger, similar in size to the big Asian label SUVs. 
Best
looking, also.

Nobody needs any of these things for runs to Starbuck's or the mall.

If you really care about this, just go to MBUSA.com and build one of each.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] G, GLK, GL. ML...

[RELNGSON]

> What exactly is the difference between a GL and ML, they look the 
> same
> to me. Is a GL halfway between a G and ML?
> 
A G is an overpriced antique, dating back decades and is no pleasure to 
drive. They are mostly just status symbols.

The GLK is the smallest of the lot but isn't cheap and shares some engines 
with the ML and GL. The ML was the first MB SUV, made in Alabama and 
Austria. The GL is much larger, similar in size to the big Asian label SUVs. 
Best 
looking, also.

Nobody needs any of these things for runs to Starbuck's or the mall.

If you really care about this, just go to MBUSA.com and build one of each.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Xenons/LEDs

[RELNGSON]

> ...Strobing effects from xenons? Nope. However, if those are the ones 
> that have a color change effect when viewed off axis, that does irk me...
> 
I didn't ask about strobing for Xenons. I asked about "problems" because 
some people complain about oncoming Xenons being too bright and I wonder if 
the persons complaining about LED strobing are the same people.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[WILTON]

'Fraid I'm gonna hafta let it go, anyway.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale



Just now put it out there.
On 7/8/2012 5:04 PM, Bob Rentfro wrote:

For me? Too cheap for me? Never too cheap. Why, do you have people lining
up at Okie Acres to look at it.

Bob R
On Jul 8, 2012 2:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:


Maybe I have it priced too cheap?

On 7/8/2012 3:27 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when 
I
bought my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for 
$2950

and thought I got a great deal.

Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 


To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
Message-ID: 
<4FF9D649.3070502@**constructivity.net<4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it
only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the
best oil?

Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it
but only if you wax it first.

--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/**cto/3126309068.html

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07/08/12






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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Just now put it out there.
On 7/8/2012 5:04 PM, Bob Rentfro wrote:

For me? Too cheap for me? Never too cheap. Why, do you have people lining
up at Okie Acres to look at it.

Bob R
On Jul 8, 2012 2:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:


Maybe I have it priced too cheap?

On 7/8/2012 3:27 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:


I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when I
bought my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for $2950
and thought I got a great deal.

Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 

To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
Message-ID: 
<4FF9D649.3070502@**constructivity.net<4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it
only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the
best oil?

Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it
but only if you wax it first.

--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/**cto/3126309068.html

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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Bob Rentfro]

For me? Too cheap for me? Never too cheap. Why, do you have people lining
up at Okie Acres to look at it.

Bob R
On Jul 8, 2012 2:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> Maybe I have it priced too cheap?
>
> On 7/8/2012 3:27 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>
>> I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when I
>> bought my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for $2950
>> and thought I got a great deal.
>>
>> Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.
>>
>> -Curt
>>
>> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
>> From: Rich Thomas 
>> 
>> >
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
>> Message-ID: 
>> <4FF9D649.3070502@**constructivity.net<4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> 2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it
>> only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the
>> best oil?
>>
>> Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it
>> but only if you wax it first.
>>
>> --R
>>
>> On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>
>>> I have a car for sale at the the moment.
>>>
>>> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/**cto/3126309068.html
>>>
>>>  __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5118 - Release Date: 07/08/12
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Maybe I have it priced too cheap?

On 7/8/2012 3:27 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when I bought 
my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for $2950 and thought I 
got a great deal.

Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
Message-ID: <4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it
only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the
best oil?

Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it
but only if you wax it first.

--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html


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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5118 - Release Date: 07/08/12






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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Speaking of scrap crush value on cars is WAY down.  It was up to 
220 a ton, I waited a week, took a 116 down and it was down to 170 
a ton, guy said it was probably going to drop again.  Damn.


On 7/8/2012 2:20 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Martha is not a miracle worker.

That thing is ready for the recycler and should be crushed.

The really scary part is the Minnie Winnie that's in the background.

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:





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Re: [MBZ] OT: rust converter

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> What's wrong with using POR-15 as-is?

Hm well maybe nothing.  I assumed it would be better to treat the
rust first.

AAllan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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[MBZ] Fuel tank SKT.

[Frederick Moir]

Alles.
I know that this info should be at my fingertips, but, CRS has, um.
What size is the fuel outlet/filter holder in the bottom of the tank of an '89 
260E? 40mm? 46mm?
Please reply in words of one, or perhaps two, sillybubbles.
 TIA
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.
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[MBZ] Ice cold AC

[Curt Raymond]

Its in the 80s here in New England so I've finally gotten the chance to run the 
AC in my cars. For the first time in my life the whole fleet (2003 Ford Ranger, 
'84 190D, '78 240D) have ICE COLD AC.

The 240D needed a little pick-me-up but it wasn't that warm when my Indy 
charged it and it only took a teeny bit off the end of a can to go from cool to 
ice cold. Of course at idle the York compressor nearly makes the front of the 
car hop around...

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Curt Raymond]

I was thinking along the same lines. I'm also remembering in 2005 when I bought 
my '84 190D which wasn't in as good a shape as this car for $2950 and thought I 
got a great deal.

Kaleb you dumb okie, its MOBIL 1. Mobile is a city in Alabama.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:49:45 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
Message-ID: <4ff9d649.3070...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it 
only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the 
best oil?

Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it 
but only if you wax it first.

--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> I have a car for sale at the the moment.
>
> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html
>

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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[WILTON]

Buff right out.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Oh my



Do you think the Martha treatment could help that car?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:


After seeing that driver's seat I want to gouge my eyes out.

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:



http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html

--
Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[Dan Penoff]

Martha is not a miracle worker.

That thing is ready for the recycler and should be crushed.

The really scary part is the Minnie Winnie that's in the background.

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> Do you think the Martha treatment could help that car?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
>> After seeing that driver's seat I want to gouge my eyes out.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Do you think the Martha treatment could help that car?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> After seeing that driver's seat I want to gouge my eyes out.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> 
>> 
>> http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[Dan Penoff]

After seeing that driver's seat I want to gouge my eyes out.

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> 
> http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html
> 
> --
> Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: rust converter

[Dan Penoff]

What's wrong with using POR-15 as-is?  I never used anything in between 
cleaning up the rusted areas and applying POR-15.

Dan


On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> I recall someone posting here about a liquid rust converter that worked
> reasonably well.  I have some undercarriage rust on my Nissan truck that
> I want to try to stop or at least slow down.  My plan is to wire brush,
> treat, then maybe POR-15 paint over it.
> 
> Thoughts?  I'd prefer something I can spray from a hand sprayer, not
> anything thick/brush-on.  I know that POR-15 has a converter spray.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Oh my

[Rich Thomas]

So when you headed down there?

--R

On 7/8/12 2:58 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html

--
Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod


Sent from my iPhone
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[MBZ] Oh my

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3126182556.html

--
Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[Rich Thomas]

And I bet she doused it with "coal all" (the all-purpose disinfectant, 
floor polish, degreaser, and lamp light giver!) to clean it up good!


--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, G Mann wrote:

When I was age 4 a dog bit
my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]




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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Rich Thomas]

2 problems I see, the AC is only " cold AC" not BLOWS ICE COLD, and it 
only gets 36mpg, not 40mpg on veggie oil.  And is Mobile 1 really the 
best oil?


Other than that it seems a reasonable deal.  I'll give you $500 for it 
but only if you wax it first.


--R

On 7/8/12 1:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html


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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> People often confuse the Endowment with the company - two totally
> different entities.

Still works to their benefit though, eh?

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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[MBZ] OT: rust converter

[Allan Streib]

I recall someone posting here about a liquid rust converter that worked
reasonably well.  I have some undercarriage rust on my Nissan truck that
I want to try to stop or at least slow down.  My plan is to wire brush,
treat, then maybe POR-15 paint over it.

Thoughts?  I'd prefer something I can spray from a hand sprayer, not
anything thick/brush-on.  I know that POR-15 has a converter spray.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[OK Don]

Most of the hospitals here have bought out the individual practices, so the
Docs work for the medical/industrial complexes. There are very few private
practices around here anymore. From the patients point of view, the
practices are run better now - the wait to see the Doc is considerably
less, billing is more accurate, etc.

All of my friends who became doctors went the ROTC route - free school in
return for four years of service (after internship). I haven't asked my new
GP how he wnt through med school - might remember to do so next year when I
see him again, or might not.

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 12:50 PM, G Mann  wrote:

> Thank you, all points well made.  The "health care system" has gotten out
> of hand. There are minds great enough to find viable solutions, where are
> they?  Why are they not being heard?
>
> An elephant is, after all, a mouse built by a government program
>
> I offer the idea that we educate children to care for themselves and others
> with basic first aid and perhaps advanced care. When I was age 4 a dog bit
> my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
> skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]  She had raised 11 children at a
> time when you took care of your own, the country doctor was as good as it
> got, and people stood on their own two feet.
>
> Could we be headed back to that mindset? [BTW, tiny thin scar on the ear..
> not even noticeable, good job Grandmother !]
>
> Grant...
> AZ
>
> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Rich Thomas <
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject:Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
> > Date:   Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:02:41 -0400
> > From:   Rich Thomas  richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>
> > >
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >
> >
> >
> > The military will pick up the tab if the student agrees to give them
> > some number of years as a military doc, and I think something like the
> > Indian Health Service might do that too but not sure.  There are some
> > options like that, but none of them address the emerging needs.
> >
> > The main issue is that a lot of stuff is being pushed down to primary
> > care docs who do not really make enough to pay back loans, the
> > opportunity cost, and to make a reasonable (and here that can be defined
> > different ways, but think about other things you could be doing with
> > your education and intelligence) income and have a life (no 80-100hr
> > weeks).  They might make $100k a year.  Or go be a drug rep and make 2x
> > that with half the effort, or work for a drug company, or an investment
> > bank right out of college and bypass the next 7-10 years of more school
> > and debt... you get the idea.
> >
> > All that said, the idea of gummint generally paying for med school will
> > not have a lot of positive effects due to a variety of reasons (you can
> > figure that aspect out easily enough).  It would make more sense to
> > churn out a load of physician assistant types who could handle a lot of
> > the snotty noses, belly aches, and low-end damages that a real doc does
> > not need to waste time on or devote a lot of overhead to.   Put a
> > PA-in-a-box in every Walmart or CVS and you could cut costs tremendously
> > while triaging a lot of mundane sorts of things, and give the gomers
> > some place to go.
> >
> > --R
> > On 7/8/12 12:38 AM, G Mann wrote:
> >
> >> Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government
> >> offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a
> >> doctor?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __**_
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> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >
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>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[Allan Streib]

G Mann  writes:

> I offer the idea that we educate children to care for themselves and others
> with basic first aid and perhaps advanced care. When I was age 4 a dog bit
> my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
> skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]  She had raised 11 children at a
> time when you took care of your own, the country doctor was as good as it
> got, and people stood on their own two feet.

I do think a big part of the problem is people not wanting to take ANY
responsibility for their own health.  You get people 300+ lbs, diabetic,
hypertensive, show up at the ER once a week with some complaint (with a
stop at the 7-11 on the way for cigs, a 64 oz soda and a candy bar), and
expect a shot or a pill to make it all better and when it doesn't happen
they thing they've been wronged somehow.  Or maybe they need surgery but
they are in such poor health otherwise that recovery is full of
complications... again they don't want to hear that any of it might be
on them.  On top of all that they aren't paying for anything themselves
thanks to medicaid.  This kind of stuff sapps a ton of resources out of
the medical system, I'm sure.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

Eli Lilly is a huge benefactor to the community in general, but that is not the 
company, it's the Lilly family (Lilly Endowment).

My brother went to school with one of the Lilly Endowment honchos - Clay 
Robbins.  This guy wields more power in this town that you could believe, since 
the Endowment spends nearly $200 million a year in grants to the community at 
large.

People often confuse the Endowment with the company - two totally different 
entities.

Dan




On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Dan Penoff  writes:
> 
>> When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on
>> my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at
>> ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were
>> pretty well set for life.
> 
> Lilly does give a lot in the form of grant money to the university here.
> They seem to work pretty hard to keep a positive image at least here in
> the state.  How they handle drugs for people who can't afford them, I
> don't know.
> 
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[Allan Streib]

Rich Thomas  writes:

> Put a PA-in-a-box in every Walmart or CVS and you could cut costs
> tremendously while triaging a lot of mundane sorts of things, and give
> the gomers some place to go.

Already happening.  The CVS here has a "instant clinic" with a PA on
staff.  Pretty standard hours, no emergencies.  I stopped in there once
last time I had a bad cold, and the wait was over an hour, so I passed,
bought some OTC cold meds, went home and went to bed.

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on
> my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at
> ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were
> pretty well set for life.

Lilly does give a lot in the form of grant money to the university here.
They seem to work pretty hard to keep a positive image at least here in
the state.  How they handle drugs for people who can't afford them, I
don't know.

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] 2005 E 320 CID

[Charles Scruggs]

I have a 2006 and it is a great car. Performance is very good, have mb Tex, 
like it too, mileage on highway is about 35 mpg (really) and have checked 
multiple times. Have changed alternator, brakes, tires, and oil. Oh yes, had to 
put new AC compressor on it too. Now has about 100k miles, runs great! No turbo 
problems. Have owned since about 2 years and had a little over 60k miles when I 
got it. Fwiw, I certainly would get another if needed.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:

> IIRC-they have a bad history of blowing turbos-Google it. I looked into one
> once but turbo blew during test drive with friend driving it. Repair
> records will confirm if new turbo has been installed. Nice car-someday when
> my 123 & 124 wear out, I'd like one myself.
> 
> Dwight
> 90 300D 2.5t
> 82 300CD-
> 
> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Hans Neureiter  wrote:
> 
>> Friend is looking at one. Any +/- comments?
>> All I know it's not a 126, 124 or123. But she tinks I know MB.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX
>> '82 300SD
>> '02 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI
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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[WILTON]

There's that color, again, Rich.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" ; "Banned List" 


Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale



I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html


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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Hahaha no

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:53 PM, "WILTON"  wrote:

> 'Looks good; $500?   ;<)
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" ; "Banned List" 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:50 PM
> Subject: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale
> 
> 
>> I have a car for sale at the the moment.
>> 
>> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[WILTON]

'Looks good; $500?   ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" ; "Banned List" 


Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: [MBZ] 1984 190D for sale



I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html


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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[G Mann]

Thank you, all points well made.  The "health care system" has gotten out
of hand. There are minds great enough to find viable solutions, where are
they?  Why are they not being heard?

An elephant is, after all, a mouse built by a government program

I offer the idea that we educate children to care for themselves and others
with basic first aid and perhaps advanced care. When I was age 4 a dog bit
my ear off... my Grandmother sewed it back on, with nothing but grit and
skill [she was a great seamstress btw.]  She had raised 11 children at a
time when you took care of your own, the country doctor was as good as it
got, and people stood on their own two feet.

Could we be headed back to that mindset? [BTW, tiny thin scar on the ear..
not even noticeable, good job Grandmother !]

Grant...
AZ

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject:Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
> Date:   Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:02:41 -0400
> From:   Rich Thomas 
> 
> >
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>
>
>
> The military will pick up the tab if the student agrees to give them
> some number of years as a military doc, and I think something like the
> Indian Health Service might do that too but not sure.  There are some
> options like that, but none of them address the emerging needs.
>
> The main issue is that a lot of stuff is being pushed down to primary
> care docs who do not really make enough to pay back loans, the
> opportunity cost, and to make a reasonable (and here that can be defined
> different ways, but think about other things you could be doing with
> your education and intelligence) income and have a life (no 80-100hr
> weeks).  They might make $100k a year.  Or go be a drug rep and make 2x
> that with half the effort, or work for a drug company, or an investment
> bank right out of college and bypass the next 7-10 years of more school
> and debt... you get the idea.
>
> All that said, the idea of gummint generally paying for med school will
> not have a lot of positive effects due to a variety of reasons (you can
> figure that aspect out easily enough).  It would make more sense to
> churn out a load of physician assistant types who could handle a lot of
> the snotty noses, belly aches, and low-end damages that a real doc does
> not need to waste time on or devote a lot of overhead to.   Put a
> PA-in-a-box in every Walmart or CVS and you could cut costs tremendously
> while triaging a lot of mundane sorts of things, and give the gomers
> some place to go.
>
> --R
> On 7/8/12 12:38 AM, G Mann wrote:
>
>> Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government
>> offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a
>> doctor?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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>
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[MBZ] 1984 190D for sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I have a car for sale at the the moment.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/3126309068.html


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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs negy5aby

[Rich Thomas]

My cousin was an OB/GYN.  She had 3 or 4 people working for her, was 
paying over $100k/yr in malpractice insurance, paying for her employees' 
health insurance, all that stuff, rent, etc.  At some point she sat down 
and determined she was making LESS money every year than the person in 
her office she was paying the most, and that she was working many more 
hours per week than that person, and had huger responsibilities.


F*** that she said and threw in the towel, hung out for awhile selling 
stuff on ebay (and making good money at it for a few hours a week, go 
figure), and then started working at a weight-loss clinic, probably <40 
hr/wk, no headaches or much responsibility for the business end of 
things, goes home at the end of the day and week, and enjoys life while 
making MORE money than when she had her own practice.  And all her 
patients got turfed off to someone else, who probably will reach the 
same conclusion if they have not already done so.


--R

On 7/8/12 12:25 PM, Larry T wrote:

Thank you for those 2 posts!
depending on specialty some doctors pay more for malpractice than 
other expenses combined.   they work in a system that not only allows 
zero mistakes and accidents but with a legal system that uses junk 
science to dupe a poorly educated population, many of which see the 
legal system as a lottery.


and no nationalization is not the answer...  common sense would help 
along with litigation reform of course...


LarryT

On 7/7/2012 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
Rich Thomas said: "The interesting thing about health care these 
days, at
least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc 
time and

procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that
service. "

This really makes me ponder.  It seems I see my doctor routinely for 
10-20
minutes with an allowable (government health "insurance") 
reimbursement of

$60-100.  Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the
associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially
malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how 
doctors
make a living.  Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I 
think)
next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again.  I have to wonder 
what
we're doing here.  Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are 
going
into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear 
foreign

born, and thank God we have them.


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[MBZ] Fwd: Re: prescription costs negy5aby

[Rich Thomas]

 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Date:   Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:02:41 -0400
From:   Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 



The military will pick up the tab if the student agrees to give them
some number of years as a military doc, and I think something like the
Indian Health Service might do that too but not sure.  There are some
options like that, but none of them address the emerging needs.

The main issue is that a lot of stuff is being pushed down to primary
care docs who do not really make enough to pay back loans, the
opportunity cost, and to make a reasonable (and here that can be defined
different ways, but think about other things you could be doing with
your education and intelligence) income and have a life (no 80-100hr
weeks).  They might make $100k a year.  Or go be a drug rep and make 2x
that with half the effort, or work for a drug company, or an investment
bank right out of college and bypass the next 7-10 years of more school
and debt... you get the idea.

All that said, the idea of gummint generally paying for med school will
not have a lot of positive effects due to a variety of reasons (you can
figure that aspect out easily enough).  It would make more sense to
churn out a load of physician assistant types who could handle a lot of
the snotty noses, belly aches, and low-end damages that a real doc does
not need to waste time on or devote a lot of overhead to.   Put a
PA-in-a-box in every Walmart or CVS and you could cut costs tremendously
while triaging a lot of mundane sorts of things, and give the gomers
some place to go.

--R
On 7/8/12 12:38 AM, G Mann wrote:

Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government
offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a
doctor?






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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Larry T]

Thank you for those 2 posts!
depending on specialty some doctors pay more for malpractice than other 
expenses combined.   they work in a system that not only allows zero 
mistakes and accidents but with a legal system that uses junk science to 
dupe a poorly educated population, many of which see the legal system as 
a lottery.


and no nationalization is not the answer...  common sense would help 
along with litigation reform of course...


LarryT

On 7/7/2012 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

Rich Thomas said: "The interesting thing about health care these days, at
least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and
procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that
service. "

This really makes me ponder.  It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20
minutes with an allowable (government health "insurance") reimbursement of
$60-100.  Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour.  Considering all the
associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially
malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors
make a living.  Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think)
next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again.  I have to wonder what
we're doing here.  Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are going
into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear foreign
born, and thank God we have them.


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Re: [MBZ] Another LED myth?

[Dave Walton]

Correct. White LEDs are usually blue LEDs with a patch of phosphor on top. If 
you look into a clear white LED (while off) you will see it. It converts some 
of the blue light to other wavelengths so the overall color appears white. The 
efficiency of the phosphor is currently the limiting factor and also defines 
the expected lifespan.

-Dave Walton

On Jul 7, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

>> LED's themselves are cheap and last as long as a transistor lasts.
> 
> White LED's are fluorescent, and have the usual half-life
> concerns of that.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Curt Raymond]

There was a thing on NPR about that the other day...


-Curt

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 06:59:38 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal 
where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. 
 Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.

Allan Streib  wrote:
>
>There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
>insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
>

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

No.

When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on my block 
were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at ELC or Allison 
(transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were pretty well set for life.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:

> Did you buy any ELC shares?  ;)
> 
> Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
>> I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly & Co., one of the largest
>> domestic pharmaceutical companies.
>> 
>> To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement.  Most of that
>> money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to.  One
>> of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300, '87 300TD
> 
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

Sounds like a collective. They are gaining popularity in places like Portland 
and Seattle. You pay a fixed annual fee for general medical care, and they also 
provide some medications at no or reduced costs, too.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Max Dillon  wrote:

> A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal 
> where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are 
> covered.  Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.
> 
> Allan Streib  wrote:
>> 
>> There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
>> insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300, '87 300TD
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

Good points.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:38 AM, G Mann  wrote:

> Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government
> offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a
> doctor?
> 
> I note that the much argued "obama care" generates some 20,000,000 new
> patients, some 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the "fee/tax" , but not one
> dime to create new doctors.. which we are short of even before the 20m new
> patients..
> 
> Who is running this country, anyway?  Wouldn't it make sense to ease the
> burden to become a doctor, for those who met medical standards of study?
> 
> How many billions did we spend to "bail out the banks"?  How about if we
> spent that money to own and produce the common drugs that are impossible to
> afford and in high demand, as public domain?
> 
> Just a thought or two.. I respectfully pass them to greater minds for
> deliberation.
> 
> Grant...
> 
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Rich Thomas <
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> 
>> Well here is what my wife says.  She has a patient who comes in with some
>> sort of follow-up for cancer.  Patient understandably has a lot of
>> questions, and the fam is there too for moral support and to ask questions,
>> take notes, keep track of stuff because a cancer patient does not have a
>> lot of mental energy to put into that sort of thing, often confused, so the
>> appt ends up being 45min-1hr.  Then after that she has to write up orders
>> for this and that follow-up and procedures and what not.  Figure another
>> 15min unless she has to track someone down, or get some deadbeat drone at
>> some other desk to respond with other than a "huh?"  Then at some point
>> (which is often a Sunday afternoon at the kitchen table) she has to dictate
>> notes about the visit, add another 15min to review, condense, write,
>> dictate, blahblah.  So all that takes 1.5hr if she is lucky, could be more
>> like 2.
>> 
>> Medicare pays something like $80.  An auto mechanic charges more than that
>> an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc.
>> 
>> The foreign docs can come here on a visa wherein they have to work in some
>> underserved area (e.g., small towns).  Most of them are pretty smart so
>> they learn how the system works, and how to work the system.  Mostly
>> Indians and Pakis who have different social skills than your average merkin
>> doc.  And their wives and kids end up running a Subway or something, adds
>> to income.  They can make good dinero.   You'll see a lot more of them.
>> 
>> You figure out how to run a business like that, and attract smart,
>> dedicated people into the field.  BTW my wife put in 11years training for
>> her job, 5yr in med school, that would be about $200k+ these days just for
>> tuition (my son is in med school and I know what it costs, $50k/yr
>> tuition), add another maybe $20-30k a year for everything else.  She got
>> paid some minimal amount in residency (3yr) and fellowship (3yr).  Luckily
>> she had me to carry the freight, so she did not have to take loans for
>> living expenses for 5yr or scrimp for the 6yr, though we took loans for
>> tuition.  You figure out how someone going into medicine, someone good that
>> YOU will want to take care of you, can survive with some payback on 11yr
>> and $100ks invested.  The average med student these days leaves school (and
>> this is not even considering residency or fellowships which can be from
>> 2-5yr) with about $200k in debt, and the interest clock keeps ticking while
>> you are resident and fellow making, maybe, $40k/yr and working 100hr weeks.
>> 
>> Run the numbers.  100 hr/wk x 50wk = 5000 hr.  $40k/5k = $8/hr. You can
>> make more than that at McDonalds, without any kind of education.  Even if
>> it is 60 hr/wk that is 3k hrs, $13/hr.  Over time, even making good money
>> later on, the average return, with opportunity cost of med school and
>> residency, is not that wonderful for all that is put into it.  I figure
>> after (at minimum) maybe 10-15yr you could just about break even on what
>> you could have made at a regular college-education job for that time.  With
>> the changes now, I'm not even sure my son could break even.
>> 
>> I am not crying poor mouth, but these are the realities of medicine these
>> days, not even talking about the cost of an MRI machine, advanced
>> diagnostic tests, etc.
>> 
>> --R
>> 
>> On 7/7/12 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> 
>>> Rich Thomas said: "The interesting thing about health care these days, at
>>> least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and
>>> procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that
>>> service. "
>>> 
>>> This really makes me ponder.  It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20
>>> minutes with an allowable (government health "insurance") reimbursement of
>>> $60-100.  Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour.  Considering all the
>>> associated costs (facility, equipme

Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

When we were between insurers, the wife was able to negotiate her care with her 
rheumatism doctor. She gets shots to keep her hip pain to a minimum, and he was 
willing to work out a cash deal with her that was less expensive than when we 
had insurance.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:18 AM, Allan Streib  wrote:

> Rich Thomas  writes:
> 
>> Medicare pays something like $80.  An auto mechanic charges more than
>> that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc.
> 
> Last time I visited the ER I got a bill for over $400 for the doc (who
> was in the room maybe 5 minutes), plus a separate bill from the hospital
> for the nurses/supplies.  See where they make up the $80 medicare
> reimbursements?
> 
> There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
> insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
> 
> Allan
> 
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Dan Penoff]

There were two different meds he attempted to qualify for, one was made by Eli 
Lilly, I don't recall the other.

Both programs pretty well eliminated you if you had any income of significance 
and no dependents. In his case, he would have had a better chance for 
eligibility had he been living under a bridge somewhere.

His caregiver suggested that many of these programs are/were window dressing to 
make the drug companies appear to be benevolent. Upon close inspection, we 
found the ability to qualify was so narrow that few would be eligible.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Dan Penoff wrote:
> 
>> They had the stuff about "we'll help you if you can't afford it," which was 
>> crap.  Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most 
>> menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their "program". 
>>  So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for 
>> their program.  Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples 
>> and pass as many on to him as they could.
> 
> I thought most of the free drug programs were based on low income, or 2.5x 
> poverty level. OTOH, I'm sure they're less eager to give away $12k a year 
> than $1k a year drugs.
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] prescription costs

[Max Dillon]

A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal 
where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. 
 Almost like they are forming their own insurance company.

Allan Streib  wrote:
>
>There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take
>insurance.  Cash practice.  I think I might give him a try.
>

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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