Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

In the summer of 1993 I flew with an Indian Health Service cardiologist
from Rapid City to Cheyenne Eagle Butte for the day for clinic. We almost
diverted due to low cloud cover, but managed to find an opening after a few
go rounds. The pilot and airplane were from an aviation company in Rapid.
Tom Daschle had some connection to the firm and had lobbied successfully to
end forest service inspections of their aircraft and pilots. This proved
important later, when the same pilot, plane, doc and two other docs I
worked with that summer all crashed together in Minot.

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001206X00723&ntsbno=CHI94GA093&akey=1

The wives of the docs argued that the aviation company should have been
inspected more regularly and that Daschle's lobbying had contributed to the
deaths of their husbands. Kinda hard to argue given the crash. The pilot
was a bit of a cowboy and didnt even check the weather as I recall.

Not sure what to say except sometimes you can be pretty close to death and
not have any idea.
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Exactly!

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 1:58 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Pride: What happens just before you join the "Darwin Award" competition.
>
> Go Around: Otherwise known as a "slow speed pass to assess runway
> conditions prior to final landing approach". .. ;))
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:19 AM, OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Our neighbor was landing his BT-13 at the end of the return from Oshkosh,
> > was too hot and high, and rather then risk the embarrassment of "going
> > around", he ground looped it to avoid going off the embankment at the end
> > of the runway, into the road, and into the embankment on the other side.
> > The result was the gear being torn out and plenty of belly damage, bent
> > prop, etc.. He repaired it, flew it one more time, and has left it
> sitting
> > ever since. The price of pride . . .
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:46 AM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > There is an aviation maneuver for doing a high banked turn during
> > > landing... it's called a "Ground Loop"  That's when you dig one
> wing
> > > tip into the dirt at just a shade below landing speed, say.. 70 mph,
> and
> > > then roll the airplane ass over tea cup until all speed and occupants
> are
> > > "bled off".
> > >
> > > Usually followed by the FAA crash investigators filing a report headed
> > > "Cause of Death, Pilot Error", and an insurance report headed,
> "Aircraft
> > > total loss, Claim Denied"
> > >
> > > FYI, successful landings and takeoffs are made "straight ahead, into
> the
> > > wind".
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:38 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > OK Don wrote:
> > > > > >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most
> > > > runways
> > > > > >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average
> > > Cessna.
> > > >
> > > > > > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
> > > > east-west
> > > > > > and about 670' north-south.
> > > > > > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> > > > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > > With one high banked turn, you could land a Cessna; 1300'+670'.
> Kaleb
> > > > could haul in enough dirt. Three more and Kaleb could have stock car
> > > races.
> > > > Gerry
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > > > http://www.avg.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Pride: What happens just before you join the "Darwin Award" competition.

Go Around: Otherwise known as a "slow speed pass to assess runway
conditions prior to final landing approach". .. ;))

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:19 AM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:

> Our neighbor was landing his BT-13 at the end of the return from Oshkosh,
> was too hot and high, and rather then risk the embarrassment of "going
> around", he ground looped it to avoid going off the embankment at the end
> of the runway, into the road, and into the embankment on the other side.
> The result was the gear being torn out and plenty of belly damage, bent
> prop, etc.. He repaired it, flew it one more time, and has left it sitting
> ever since. The price of pride . . .
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:46 AM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > wrote:
>
> > There is an aviation maneuver for doing a high banked turn during
> > landing... it's called a "Ground Loop"  That's when you dig one wing
> > tip into the dirt at just a shade below landing speed, say.. 70 mph, and
> > then roll the airplane ass over tea cup until all speed and occupants are
> > "bled off".
> >
> > Usually followed by the FAA crash investigators filing a report headed
> > "Cause of Death, Pilot Error", and an insurance report headed, "Aircraft
> > total loss, Claim Denied"
> >
> > FYI, successful landings and takeoffs are made "straight ahead, into the
> > wind".
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:38 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > OK Don wrote:
> > > > >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most
> > > runways
> > > > >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average
> > Cessna.
> > >
> > > > > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
> > > east-west
> > > > > and about 670' north-south.
> > > > > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> > > > > Craig
> > >
> > > With one high banked turn, you could land a Cessna; 1300'+670'.  Kaleb
> > > could haul in enough dirt. Three more and Kaleb could have stock car
> > races.
> > > Gerry
> > >
> > > ---
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > > http://www.avg.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Our neighbor was landing his BT-13 at the end of the return from Oshkosh,
was too hot and high, and rather then risk the embarrassment of "going
around", he ground looped it to avoid going off the embankment at the end
of the runway, into the road, and into the embankment on the other side.
The result was the gear being torn out and plenty of belly damage, bent
prop, etc.. He repaired it, flew it one more time, and has left it sitting
ever since. The price of pride . . .

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:46 AM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

> There is an aviation maneuver for doing a high banked turn during
> landing... it's called a "Ground Loop"  That's when you dig one wing
> tip into the dirt at just a shade below landing speed, say.. 70 mph, and
> then roll the airplane ass over tea cup until all speed and occupants are
> "bled off".
>
> Usually followed by the FAA crash investigators filing a report headed
> "Cause of Death, Pilot Error", and an insurance report headed, "Aircraft
> total loss, Claim Denied"
>
> FYI, successful landings and takeoffs are made "straight ahead, into the
> wind".
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:38 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > OK Don wrote:
> > > >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most
> > runways
> > > >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average
> Cessna.
> >
> > > > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
> > east-west
> > > > and about 670' north-south.
> > > > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> > > > Craig
> >
> > With one high banked turn, you could land a Cessna; 1300'+670'.  Kaleb
> > could haul in enough dirt. Three more and Kaleb could have stock car
> races.
> > Gerry
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

There is an aviation maneuver for doing a high banked turn during
landing... it's called a "Ground Loop"  That's when you dig one wing
tip into the dirt at just a shade below landing speed, say.. 70 mph, and
then roll the airplane ass over tea cup until all speed and occupants are
"bled off".

Usually followed by the FAA crash investigators filing a report headed
"Cause of Death, Pilot Error", and an insurance report headed, "Aircraft
total loss, Claim Denied"

FYI, successful landings and takeoffs are made "straight ahead, into the
wind".

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:38 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> OK Don wrote:
> > >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most
> runways
> > >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.
>
> > > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
> east-west
> > > and about 670' north-south.
> > > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> > > Craig
>
> With one high banked turn, you could land a Cessna; 1300'+670'.  Kaleb
> could haul in enough dirt. Three more and Kaleb could have stock car races.
> Gerry
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

OK Don wrote:
> >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
> >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.
 
> > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
> > and about 670' north-south.
> > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> > Craig

With one high banked turn, you could land a Cessna; 1300'+670'.  Kaleb could 
haul in enough dirt. Three more and Kaleb could have stock car races.
Gerry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

For a real roller-coaster ride, try a Twin Otter in a hurricane!

I was visiting friends in 79, I think, in Philadelphia and flew down to see my 
brother in Virginia the day Hurricane David ran up the East Coast.  Got up to 
clouds sliding over the roof of the townhouse my friend lived in, almost close 
enough to touch, and gusty winds.

The trip from Philly to DC National was horrible, I've never been in a 
commercial aircraft where I could see the ailerons working up and down.  
Swooped all over, and if you've ever been in a Twin Otter (usually known as 
water bombers in Canada), they don't exactly have a high ceiling.  Gave up on 
coffee, couldn't get the cup to hold still long enough to sip any, water was 
dripping out of the AC vents, quite the ride.  The pilots earned their nickel 
that day.

Eventually got on a YS11 in DC, on Piedmont, and whirled and swooped and 
thumped to Charlottesville.  Noisy bastard, but otherwise nice (and less 
vibration that a Lockheed Electra).  Closest I've ever been to motion sick, 
I think, I was dizzy for hours.

On the way home a couple days later, I found Piedmont planes stacked up at 
National something crazy, took them a week to get all their planes back on 
schedule, they'd had to move a larger number north and west to keep them from 
getting blown away.

Lots of trees down at the horse farm where my brother was working, nasty 
weather to fly in, eh?
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The Air Florida crash was a result of using reverse thrust with snow and 
de-icer on the engines, iced up the EGR leading to a false power reading.  
Mislead them into cutting power when there was nothing wrong with the engine, 
just false power readings.  Training failure in that case I think, the engine 
instrument problem was known if I remember correctly, but the crew wasn't 
trained on the proper way to handle the engines in heavy snow conditions.  Not 
much snow in Florida, I guess.

Low speed, low altitude, heavy plane, low power (real or not), and bad weather, 
not a good combination.

My aunt drove across that bridge every day just about the time the crash 
occurred.

Another symptom of the problem -- massive de-regulation of the airline industry 
and improper oversight of new airlines.
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:29:08 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I was flying a puddle jumper (Dash-8 maybe) from Denver to Albuquerque
> one April afternoon.  For those that know the eastern slopes of the
> Rockies this time of year you won’t be surprised….
> 
> So we’re bouncing around between thunderheads, easily doing some
> 200-300 foot vertical drops in the thermals, and every time we do some
> woman in back screams.  Dang it, it’s like a stupid amusement park
> ride.  Now I wasn’t the least bit concerned, as this was the kind of
> flying I was used to.  The guy across the aisle from me was looking
> scared as heck.

That sounds like my flight from Albuquerque back to Colorado Springs in a
low-wing, twin-engine puddle jumper. The flight down to Albuquerque on a
DC-9 in the morning was uneventful, but the flight back in the afternoon
was quite different. The pilot and co-pilot were calmly sitting in their
seats (there was no sealed cockpit) and drinking coffee.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes. I need to investigate that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 7:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:38:46 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> Yes, you either need an STOL, or buy more land. I can land and take off
>> in the C182 in 800ft., but I'm doing that on one end of a 2600ft.
>> runway - big psychological difference.
> 
> Indeed, a big psychological difference!
> 
> He also has the Nowata Municipal Airport (H66) 2 miles to the southwest.
> 
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/H66
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 1300 sounds about right
>>> 
 On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes
 
>>> wrote:
 
 From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
 east-west and about 670' north-south.
 
 It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Or not even a crash!   The safest airline in the country, or maybe the 
world, had to shut down because of a structural failure of one aircraft 
that landed safely.  They followed the rulesthat did not save them.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
March 26, 2018 at 1:26 PM
All it takes is one crash to shut down an airline, e.g. the 1982 Air
Florida crash into the frozen Potomac River


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:38:46 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Yes, you either need an STOL, or buy more land. I can land and take off
> in the C182 in 800ft., but I'm doing that on one end of a 2600ft.
> runway - big psychological difference.

Indeed, a big psychological difference!

He also has the Nowata Municipal Airport (H66) 2 miles to the southwest.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/H66

Craig


> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > 1300 sounds about right
> >
> > > On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes
> > > 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300'
> > > east-west and about 670' north-south.
> > >
> > > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Yes, you either need an STOL, or buy more land. I can land and take off in
the C182 in 800ft., but I'm doing that on one end of a 2600ft. runway - big
psychological difference.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 1300 sounds about right
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:00:55 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
> >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.
> >
> > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
> > and about 670' north-south.
> >
> > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
> >>> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
> >>> though.
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
>
>
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>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Useless Pilot Rule #1 - It does no one any good to get on the radio and 
start saying "SOS, SOS, SOS", like they always do in the movies.  
There's no one on the radio who can help in a bad situation - they're 
all too far away and they can't clear a fouled fuel line or repair an 
electrical gremlin. Of course if you're going down and expect to 
survive, an SOS will give rescuers a place to start looking.  If you 
coming down from anything above 5000' and want someone to find you body 
a SOS might help, but it won't be your problem anymore.


YMMV,

LarryT


On 03/26/2018 5:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Aviation Rule #1: There is nothing as worthless as runway behind you and
altitude above you.

Any airplane can land in 20 feet if pointed nose down and kept there until
full ground contact is made.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


1300 sounds about right

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes 

wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:00:55 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:


You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.

 From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
and about 670' north-south.

It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.


Craig


On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
though.

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Aviation Rule #1: There is nothing as worthless as runway behind you and
altitude above you.

Any airplane can land in 20 feet if pointed nose down and kept there until
full ground contact is made.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 1300 sounds about right
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:00:55 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
> >> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.
> >
> > From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
> > and about 670' north-south.
> >
> > It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
> >>> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
> >>> though.
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

1300 sounds about right 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:00:55 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
>> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.
> 
> From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
> and about 670' north-south.
> 
> It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
>>> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
>>> though.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:00:55 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways
> in OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.

>From Google maps, it appears that Kaleb's estate is about 1300' east-west
and about 670' north-south.

It seems he would need an STOL aircraft.


Craig

> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
> > grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
> > though.

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

All it takes is one crash to shut down an airline, e.g. the 1982 Air
Florida crash into the frozen Potomac River

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
> >Sent: Mar 25, 2018 8:12 PM
> >To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >Cc: Mitch Haley 
> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list
> >
> >For gossip, you go to the AP article I linked, complete with quotes from
> weasels working for the airline, written before the FAA investigation.
> >
> >Those cockpit recorder quotes on Wiki struck me as odd. This is twelve
> lead acid cells in series, nominally 24v? And 21v is like a car battery
> discharged to 10.5?
> >CAP: No. That's six of one, half a dozen of another. How are we doing on
> them volts now?
> >FO: Still pretty good, 20, 21.5.
> >
> >If I were the First Officer, I'd be saying 'oh shit, we're under 22v
> already'.
> >Mitch.
> >
> Needless to say, Air Illinois ceased to exist quite soon after the
> incident (I wouldn't call it an accident due to the deliberate failure to
> immediately declare an in flight emergency).  Much more regulation of the
> regional startups, too.
>
>
> >> On March 25, 2018 at 7:56 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> A friend's husband was on the plane, I think I pretty much got the
> straight dope on that one.
> >>
> >> I left out the gossip.
> >
> >___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

-Original Message-
>From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>Sent: Mar 25, 2018 8:12 PM
>To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>Cc: Mitch Haley 
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list
>
>For gossip, you go to the AP article I linked, complete with quotes from 
>weasels working for the airline, written before the FAA investigation. 
>
>Those cockpit recorder quotes on Wiki struck me as odd. This is twelve lead 
>acid cells in series, nominally 24v? And 21v is like a car battery discharged 
>to 10.5?
>CAP: No. That's six of one, half a dozen of another. How are we doing on them 
>volts now?
>FO: Still pretty good, 20, 21.5. 
>
>If I were the First Officer, I'd be saying 'oh shit, we're under 22v already'.
>Mitch. 
>
Needless to say, Air Illinois ceased to exist quite soon after the incident (I 
wouldn't call it an accident due to the deliberate failure to immediately 
declare an in flight emergency).  Much more regulation of the regional 
startups, too.


>> On March 25, 2018 at 7:56 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> A friend's husband was on the plane, I think I pretty much got the straight 
>> dope on that one.
>> 
>> I left out the gossip.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

For gossip, you go to the AP article I linked, complete with quotes from 
weasels working for the airline, written before the FAA investigation. 

Those cockpit recorder quotes on Wiki struck me as odd. This is twelve lead 
acid cells in series, nominally 24v? And 21v is like a car battery discharged 
to 10.5?
CAP: No. That's six of one, half a dozen of another. How are we doing on them 
volts now?
FO: Still pretty good, 20, 21.5. 

If I were the First Officer, I'd be saying 'oh shit, we're under 22v already'.
Mitch. 

> On March 25, 2018 at 7:56 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> A friend's husband was on the plane, I think I pretty much got the straight 
> dope on that one.
> 
> I left out the gossip.

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

A friend's husband was on the plane, I think I pretty much got the straight 
dope on that one.

I left out the gossip.
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Further evidence that all aircraft accidents happen on the ground prior to
takeoff.
Something that was drilled into me by my first flight instructor, who flew
25 B-17 missions over Europe, then went to the Pacific Theater for "more
flying" Great guy to learn from.

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On March 25, 2018 at 6:48 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > True story, though --  the startup regional that flew out of Carbondale,
> IL back in the 80's when I had just started graduate school flew a couple
> old turboprops with Rolls Darts on them, and a Hawker Siddley HS111, twin
> T-tail jet like a DC-9 but smaller.  I flew on the HS, it stank, very cold
> on the ground (no ground heat) and the noisiest jet engines I've ever
> heard, sounded like the intake was under the seat.
>
> http://www.gendisasters.com/illinois/4586/pinckneyville%
> 2C-il-commuter-plane-crashes-pond%2C-oct-1983
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Wiki agrees more closely to Peter's recollection:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Illinois_Flight_710

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On March 25, 2018 at 6:48 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> True story, though --  the startup regional that flew out of Carbondale, IL 
> back in the 80's when I had just started graduate school flew a couple old 
> turboprops with Rolls Darts on them, and a Hawker Siddley HS111, twin T-tail 
> jet like a DC-9 but smaller.  I flew on the HS, it stank, very cold on the 
> ground (no ground heat) and the noisiest jet engines I've ever heard, sounded 
> like the intake was under the seat.

http://www.gendisasters.com/illinois/4586/pinckneyville%2C-il-commuter-plane-crashes-pond%2C-oct-1983

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Lol, I can remember a friend being scared out of his wits back in the 70s.  He 
was flying somewhere in Texas on one of the early regionals known by the "Texas 
Treetop" label.

He took the bus when the plane he was supposed to fly out on arrived the 
branches stuck into the leading edge of the wing, got a little too close to the 
rail line they were flying when the compass quit.

Probably exagerated  a bit.

True story, though --  the startup regional that flew out of Carbondale, IL 
back in the 80's when I had just started graduate school flew a couple old 
turboprops with Rolls Darts on them, and a Hawker Siddley HS111, twin T-tail 
jet like a DC-9 but smaller.  I flew on the HS, it stank, very cold on the 
ground (no ground heat) and the noisiest jet engines I've ever heard, sounded 
like the intake was under the seat.

One of the turboprops had a generator failure flying from Champaign, IL to 
Peoria, but the pilot was in a hurry to get home, and in spite of a generator 
out being a no-fly condition, took off for Carbondale, probably 45 min flight, 
maybe an hour.

About 20 min after takeoff the other generator failed (of course, since it was 
somewhat overloaded) and all the instruments failed as the batteries ran down.  
Cogent point about the Dart, it's totally mechanical and works just fine with 
no instruments so long as nothing fails internally, and they are very tough 
engines.

It was a fairly bright night, and the pilot was flying the rail line between 
Peoria (I think) and Carbondale expecting to pick up the airport lights, and 
forgot about the hill at Pinkneyville.  He was about 30 ft short of the crest 
when he hit at about 200 mph, no survivors.

Treetop airlines, indeed.
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Trim thy posts!
Sounds like Treetop Airlines.  That is what people called Ozark 
Airlines.  THe flew F-27s and hopped form town to town, ending in places 
like chitcago or St Louis.  (Back then St Louis was still a major hub.)



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 25, 2018 at 3:29 PM

I was flying a puddle jumper (Dash-8 maybe) from Denver to Albuquerque 
one April afternoon. For those that know the eastern slopes of the 
Rockies this time of year you won’t be surprised….


So we’re bouncing around between thunderheads, easily doing some 
200-300 foot vertical drops in the thermals, and every time we do some 
woman in back screams. Dang it, it’s like a stupid amusement park 
ride. Now I wasn’t the least bit concerned, as this was the kind of 
flying I was used to. The guy across the aisle from me was looking 
scared as heck.


He leans over to me and makes some comment about crashing into the 
side of a mountain. I looked at him and asked, “So do you think those 
two guys up front have a death wish?” That seemed to calm him somewhat.


We made an interim (scheduled) stop in Santa Fe. The screaming woman 
runs up the minute we flare and touch down, before we have even taxied 
to the ramp. She’s screaming at the sole flight attendant who is 
trying to get her to sit down that she wants off this plane 
immediately and that she doesn’t want to die. FA keeps her in a seat 
up front and as soon as she drops the stairs the woman goes running 
out and nearly tramples her.


That was probably the most exciting ride I've had in my commercial 
flying experience so far. There were some good ones in Eastern Europe 
in the late 1980s but they were more stuff like the busses in South 
America where people are bringing farm animal on with them….


-D


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The only time in all the hours I flew with my Dad that I was truly scared was 
when I saw him scared.  We were over southern Indiana “scud running” home 
between summer afternoon thunderstorms when he got disoriented.  If he was 
scared I knew it was time to be scared as well.  Fortunately he was able to 
take a moment, compose himself and go back over the instruments and all was 
well, but for that short time it was truly terrifying.

I didn’t fly in a commercial aircraft until I was in my early 20s.  By then I 
easily had 500 hours in various airframes with my Dad.  I was surprised and 
somewhat bored by commercial flying. Meh.

I was flying a puddle jumper (Dash-8 maybe) from Denver to Albuquerque one 
April afternoon.  For those that know the eastern slopes of the Rockies this 
time of year you won’t be surprised….

So we’re bouncing around between thunderheads, easily doing some 200-300 foot 
vertical drops in the thermals, and every time we do some woman in back 
screams.  Dang it, it’s like a stupid amusement park ride.  Now I wasn’t the 
least bit concerned, as this was the kind of flying I was used to.  The guy 
across the aisle from me was looking scared as heck.

He leans over to me and makes some comment about crashing into the side of a 
mountain.  I looked at him and asked, “So do you think those two guys up front 
have a death wish?”  That seemed to calm him somewhat.

We made an interim (scheduled) stop in Santa Fe.  The screaming woman runs up 
the minute we flare and touch down, before we have even taxied to the ramp.  
She’s screaming at the sole flight attendant who is trying to get her to sit 
down that she wants off this plane immediately and that she doesn’t want to 
die.  FA keeps her in a seat up front and as soon as she drops the stairs the 
woman goes running out and nearly tramples her.

That was probably the most exciting ride I've had in my commercial flying 
experience so far. There were some good ones in Eastern Europe in the late 
1980s but they were more stuff like the busses in South America where people 
are bringing farm animal on with them….

-D


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 4:10 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Instrument flying is perhaps the most challenging. As far as trusting
> instruments, the "Trust everyone, but always cut the cards" rule applies.
> Not only do you have to stay oriented with the instruments, but you must
> always know how they can fail, or give false readings, and by how much. At
> the same time, know what weather is doing and how it is going to impact
> your flight [and landing place] The list of things that will kill you
> just gets longer, faster.
> 
> That's why they pay us pilots the big bucks... hahaha...
> 
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> And IFR, too, I would expect.  I remember how much time my Dad spent
>> working on his IFR rating.  I got to fly with the “shoe box” occasionally.
>> Not easy getting used to trusting your instruments.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:22 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Might also take note, Single Engine time vs Multi Engine time for useful
>>> hours to capture a paying Commercial Pilot job you can have 2,000 hrs
>>> of "single engine only" and not have marketable skills, as far as
>> Regional
>>> Airline hiring counts.
>>> Also, you need "Complex Aircraft" time. which means retractable gear,
>> prop
>>> control, more than 180 HP, and more than one engine, along with
>> Instrument
>>> Rating with actual instrument flight time.
>>> Also, throw in an ATP rating, so you qualify for the airlines insurance
>>> requirements... etc etc..
>>> "Come to the airport, bring money".
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM, OK Don via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
>>> 
 Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to
>> eat
 - - -
 The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
 going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
 Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
 gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
 here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
 here.
 I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
 Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
 around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising
>> cross
 country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
 lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
 
 On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly
>> it,
> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $

Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well generally a runway is north south from what I gather which is the 
direction wind will most likely be going. I only have enough room in the ew 
direction. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Does the wind always blow east or west?  You ALWAYS land or take off INTO
> the wind.
> 
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
>> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
>> though.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 12:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to
>> eat
>>> - - -
>>> The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
>>> going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
>>> Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
>>> gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
>>> here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
>>> here.
>>> I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
>>> Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
>>> around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising
>> cross
>>> country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
>>> lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly
>> it,
 getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
 expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
 probably wants.
 
 Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
 flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
 zero additional cost.
 
 All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor
>> credentials
 and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
>> big
 leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
 training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
 much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
>> of
>>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
>> who
>>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>>> for themselves."
>>> 
>>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Instrument flying is perhaps the most challenging. As far as trusting
instruments, the "Trust everyone, but always cut the cards" rule applies.
Not only do you have to stay oriented with the instruments, but you must
always know how they can fail, or give false readings, and by how much. At
the same time, know what weather is doing and how it is going to impact
your flight [and landing place] The list of things that will kill you
just gets longer, faster.

That's why they pay us pilots the big bucks... hahaha...

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And IFR, too, I would expect.  I remember how much time my Dad spent
> working on his IFR rating.  I got to fly with the “shoe box” occasionally.
> Not easy getting used to trusting your instruments.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:22 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Might also take note, Single Engine time vs Multi Engine time for useful
> > hours to capture a paying Commercial Pilot job you can have 2,000 hrs
> > of "single engine only" and not have marketable skills, as far as
> Regional
> > Airline hiring counts.
> > Also, you need "Complex Aircraft" time. which means retractable gear,
> prop
> > control, more than 180 HP, and more than one engine, along with
> Instrument
> > Rating with actual instrument flight time.
> > Also, throw in an ATP rating, so you qualify for the airlines insurance
> > requirements... etc etc..
> > "Come to the airport, bring money".
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM, OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to
> eat
> >> - - -
> >> The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
> >> going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
> >> Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
> >> gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
> >> here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
> >> here.
> >> I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
> >> Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
> >> around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising
> cross
> >> country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
> >> lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly
> it,
> >>> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> >>> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
> >>> probably wants.
> >>>
> >>> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
> >>> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
> >>> zero additional cost.
> >>>
> >>> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor
> credentials
> >>> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
> >> big
> >>> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
> >>> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free
> or
> >>> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> OK Don
> >>
> >> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> >> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >>
> >> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> >> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> >> for themselves."
> >>
> >> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You'd get LOTS of cross-wind experience - there's a reason most runways in
OK are aligned N-S. 1800' would be enough for your average Cessna.

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
> though.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 12:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to
> eat
> > - - -
> > The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
> > going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
> > Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
> > gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
> > here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
> > here.
> > I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
> > Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
> > around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising
> cross
> > country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
> > lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly
> it,
> >> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> >> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
> >> probably wants.
> >>
> >> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
> >> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
> >> zero additional cost.
> >>
> >> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor
> credentials
> >> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
> big
> >> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
> >> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
> >> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Dan sez:

>Not easy getting used to trusting your >instruments

That contributed to the demise of JFK Jr. I think. No IFR 
endorsement/experience, a hot rod airplane, and overconfidence does not work 
out for a happy ending. 

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold 
pilots."

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

And IFR, too, I would expect.  I remember how much time my Dad spent working on 
his IFR rating.  I got to fly with the “shoe box” occasionally.  Not easy 
getting used to trusting your instruments.

-D


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:22 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Might also take note, Single Engine time vs Multi Engine time for useful
> hours to capture a paying Commercial Pilot job you can have 2,000 hrs
> of "single engine only" and not have marketable skills, as far as Regional
> Airline hiring counts.
> Also, you need "Complex Aircraft" time. which means retractable gear, prop
> control, more than 180 HP, and more than one engine, along with Instrument
> Rating with actual instrument flight time.
> Also, throw in an ATP rating, so you qualify for the airlines insurance
> requirements... etc etc..
> "Come to the airport, bring money".
> 
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote:
> 
>> Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to eat
>> - - -
>> The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
>> going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
>> Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
>> gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
>> here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
>> here.
>> I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
>> Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
>> around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising cross
>> country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
>> lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly it,
>>> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
>>> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
>>> probably wants.
>>> 
>>> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
>>> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
>>> zero additional cost.
>>> 
>>> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor credentials
>>> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
>> big
>>> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
>>> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
>>> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>> 
>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>> for themselves."
>> 
>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


___
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Does the wind always blow east or west?  You ALWAYS land or take off INTO
the wind.

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a
> grass strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented
> though.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 12:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to
> eat
> > - - -
> > The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
> > going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
> > Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
> > gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
> > here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
> > here.
> > I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
> > Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
> > around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising
> cross
> > country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
> > lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly
> it,
> >> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> >> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
> >> probably wants.
> >>
> >> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
> >> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
> >> zero additional cost.
> >>
> >> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor
> credentials
> >> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
> big
> >> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
> >> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
> >> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Might also take note, Single Engine time vs Multi Engine time for useful
hours to capture a paying Commercial Pilot job you can have 2,000 hrs
of "single engine only" and not have marketable skills, as far as Regional
Airline hiring counts.
Also, you need "Complex Aircraft" time. which means retractable gear, prop
control, more than 180 HP, and more than one engine, along with Instrument
Rating with actual instrument flight time.
Also, throw in an ATP rating, so you qualify for the airlines insurance
requirements... etc etc..
"Come to the airport, bring money".

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:

> Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to eat
> - - -
> The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
> going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
> Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
> gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
> here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
> here.
> I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
> Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
> around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising cross
> country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
> lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly it,
> > getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> > expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
> > probably wants.
> >
> > Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
> > flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
> > zero additional cost.
> >
> > All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor credentials
> > and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline
> big
> > leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
> > training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
> > much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If I were looking to get a plane at some point maybe I should put in a grass 
strip and a hanger at some point. It would be east west oriented though. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 25, 2018, at 12:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to eat
> - - -
> The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
> going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
> Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
> gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
> here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
> here.
> I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
> Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
> around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising cross
> country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
> lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .
> 
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly it,
>> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
>> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
>> probably wants.
>> 
>> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
>> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
>> zero additional cost.
>> 
>> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor credentials
>> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline big
>> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
>> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
>> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Remember that those guys giving instruction to build hours also need to eat
- - -
The instructor on our field charges $35 an hour. I don't know what the
going rate is in Kaleb's neck of the woods
Another way to cut costs is to buy an aircraft that already has the auto
gas STC (Mogas) - non-alcohol regular unleaded is now about $2.70/ gal.
here, while 100LL (low lead) ranges from $3.90 to $5.10 per gal. around
here.
I see $3.50 at Skiatook and $4.80 at Bartlesville around Kaleb.
Figure a low of 5 gph for a C150 to 11gph for my C182. A C172 will be
around 7-8 gph. Pattern and airwork will burn less fuel than cruising cross
country (assuming you want to get there quickly). A slower cruise burns
lees fuel and increases your hours in the air . . .

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly it,
> getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get
> expensive when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor
> probably wants.
>
> Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was
> flying anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at
> zero additional cost.
>
> All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor credentials
> and trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline big
> leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight
> training? Is there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or
> much less than $50/hr in exchange for the airtime?
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

It seems like even if you buy your own $10-20k plane and learn to fly it, 
getting your required 30 (or more likely 40-50) hours can still get expensive 
when you add your plane costs to the $50/hr the instructor probably wants. 

Dan had it made, having an instructor rated pilot in the family who was flying 
anyway and could take Dan along with him to build Dan's hours at zero 
additional cost. 

All these 20-30 year old Jon Agne wannabes getting instructor credentials and 
trying to build hours while they wait for their shot at the airline big 
leagues, are you advancing their careers by hiring them for flight training? Is 
there any chance of finding one who would do it for free or much less than 
$50/hr in exchange for the airtime?

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Or a self-fly plane.

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You could flip a few cars on BaT and buy a Cessna, probably will even fit
> in your shop.
>
> Maybe get one of those flying cars they are about to start selling.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

You could flip a few cars on BaT and buy a Cessna, probably will even fit in 
your shop.  

Maybe get one of those flying cars they are about to start selling.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

My dad flew for both business and pleasure.  Understand that he flew in the 
Army Air Corps and was a navigator in B-29s in the Pacific theater during WWII, 
so he had experience before he started flying small planes, even if it was 
roughly 20 years after the war before he got his tickets.

He started out renting during his lessons. He rented occasionally after he got 
his PP ticket.  That was a PITA for a lot of reasons, most of which Don and 
Grant have mentioned.  The best was when we were going to fly over to my 
grandfather’s place in Illinois one weekend.  Preflight all done, everything 
checked out, and on our climb-out the windshield of our Cessna 182 suddenly 
became covered with oil.  Looking out the little opening in the side window, 
Dad calls a Mayday and immediate return and we do a quick downwind landing.  
Seems that the ramp monkey topped off the oil after the preflight and didn’t 
get the cap on properly. Nice.  And yes, that was Dad’s fault for not checking.

After that Dad got into a partnership with a bunch of doctors on a Beechcraft 
V35.  It was based at a really nice FBO at Indianapolis International with a 
nice waiting area, fully staffed, etc.  Only problem was that some of the 
doctors would just randomly decide they wanted to go somewhere and would take 
the aircraft unannounced.  We went out one Friday afternoon planning on flying 
to our place on Sanibel Island for the weekend only to discover the plane was 
gone (it had been reserved by my Dad several weeks in advance with the woman 
who handled the scheduling.)

That put an end to the partnership.

Lastly, Dad bought his own Beechcraft V35B, N899T and put an end to all the BS. 
 Fully IFR and instructor rated by this time, the aircraft he bought was IFR 
equipped as well.  In his case he could use it for business purposes, and as I 
understood it, as long as his business use exceeded his personal use the 
majority of the (personal) cost and expenses were a write-off.

899T is out in Missouri somewhere these days, but we put a lot of hours in that 
aircraft.  Since he was instructor rated we could fly left seat and get our 
hours.  I flew in the summer with him when I was out of school, which was fun.  
I would have to dig my logbook out, but I believe I had somewhere in the 
neighborhood of about 600 hours flying that aircraft.

Flying is a major commitment of time, energy and money.  Unless you’re 
fortunate enough to have the facilities, like Don, upkeep will eat you alive.  
Overhead is fixed to a point where it’s going to cost you whether you fly it or 
not, and the regulatory requirements are such that when the time for a minor or 
major comes up, you’re doing it or the aircraft is grounded.

It was really nice to have access to a plane when there was one in the family, 
but I saw what it took to operate it up close there was no way I would make 
that kind of commitment myself.  When my Dad passed and 899T was sold off, it 
didn’t hurt my feelings in the least.  That’s also the last time I flew.

-D


> On Mar 23, 2018, at 10:05 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> That all depends one how the partnership is structured, and how willing the
> partners are to cough up money when needed. Remember that the basic unit of
> money in aviation is $1000.
> If you are going to do much flying, renting is just paying someone else a
> profit for your use of the plane. Would you rent a car every time you
> wanted to go to OKC?
> If you aren't going to do much flying, why spend the $ and time to get a
> license? You need to stay current to be safe.
> I've heard stories from the guys who are A&Ps for one of the local FBOs -
> and they won't fly the rental airplanes - too much cost and corner cutting.
> I like to know EVERYTHING that has been done to my aircraft, and how it was
> done, and who inspected it.
> As Grant said, you can't pull over on the shoulder and call AAA - - -
> 
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 5:27 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> So if a person is intent on getting their license and will actually fly
>> afterwards, are they better off buying a plane or a share of one, or just
>> renting when they want to fly?  It would seem if 2 or 3 people bought in it
>> would be cheaper.  Or go the flying club route.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/23/2018 11:15 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>> The market for used trainers - Cessna 150/152 or 172 is relatively stable
>>> now, and the aircraft are all old, so there is very little depreciation.
>>> So, is you buy a solid C150 for $15,000, and fly it a couple hundred hours
>>> (needed for a commercial license), AND take care of it, you can expect to
>>> sell it for at lest $14,000, but perhaps $16,000. Renting one is around
>>> $90/hour here - so the 200 hours will cost a minimum of $18,000. Now there
>>> are expenses beyond the capitol outlay - fuel, annual inspections, hangar
>>> rent, maintenance, etc., and you have to manage all that as well.
>>

Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

That all depends one how the partnership is structured, and how willing the
partners are to cough up money when needed. Remember that the basic unit of
money in aviation is $1000.
If you are going to do much flying, renting is just paying someone else a
profit for your use of the plane. Would you rent a car every time you
wanted to go to OKC?
If you aren't going to do much flying, why spend the $ and time to get a
license? You need to stay current to be safe.
I've heard stories from the guys who are A&Ps for one of the local FBOs -
and they won't fly the rental airplanes - too much cost and corner cutting.
I like to know EVERYTHING that has been done to my aircraft, and how it was
done, and who inspected it.
As Grant said, you can't pull over on the shoulder and call AAA - - -

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 5:27 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So if a person is intent on getting their license and will actually fly
> afterwards, are they better off buying a plane or a share of one, or just
> renting when they want to fly?  It would seem if 2 or 3 people bought in it
> would be cheaper.  Or go the flying club route.
>
>
>
> On 3/23/2018 11:15 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> The market for used trainers - Cessna 150/152 or 172 is relatively stable
>> now, and the aircraft are all old, so there is very little depreciation.
>> So, is you buy a solid C150 for $15,000, and fly it a couple hundred hours
>> (needed for a commercial license), AND take care of it, you can expect to
>> sell it for at lest $14,000, but perhaps $16,000. Renting one is around
>> $90/hour here - so the 200 hours will cost a minimum of $18,000. Now there
>> are expenses beyond the capitol outlay - fuel, annual inspections, hangar
>> rent, maintenance, etc., and you have to manage all that as well.
>> I suspect that a flying club is the most economical way fly, if you don't
>> mind sharing, scheduling, and trust their maintenance director (with your
>> life).
>> We're talking 1950's through the late 1970's machines for the most part,
>> maintenance is critical.
>>
>> Grant and Dan are right on - - -
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
>>> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

So if a person is intent on getting their license and will actually fly 
afterwards, are they better off buying a plane or a share of one, or 
just renting when they want to fly?  It would seem if 2 or 3 people 
bought in it would be cheaper.  Or go the flying club route.



On 3/23/2018 11:15 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

The market for used trainers - Cessna 150/152 or 172 is relatively stable
now, and the aircraft are all old, so there is very little depreciation.
So, is you buy a solid C150 for $15,000, and fly it a couple hundred hours
(needed for a commercial license), AND take care of it, you can expect to
sell it for at lest $14,000, but perhaps $16,000. Renting one is around
$90/hour here - so the 200 hours will cost a minimum of $18,000. Now there
are expenses beyond the capitol outlay - fuel, annual inspections, hangar
rent, maintenance, etc., and you have to manage all that as well.
I suspect that a flying club is the most economical way fly, if you don't
mind sharing, scheduling, and trust their maintenance director (with your
life).
We're talking 1950's through the late 1970's machines for the most part,
maintenance is critical.

Grant and Dan are right on - - -

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 22/03/2018 9:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off 
renting a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?



--- 
A friend of my younger son wanted to be a commercial pilot. He took the 
basic training to get a licence and then his family leased a pretty 
decent plane for him to build hours on as it was much less expensive 
than any other alternative, but obviously not cheap.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The market for used trainers - Cessna 150/152 or 172 is relatively stable
now, and the aircraft are all old, so there is very little depreciation.
So, is you buy a solid C150 for $15,000, and fly it a couple hundred hours
(needed for a commercial license), AND take care of it, you can expect to
sell it for at lest $14,000, but perhaps $16,000. Renting one is around
$90/hour here - so the 200 hours will cost a minimum of $18,000. Now there
are expenses beyond the capitol outlay - fuel, annual inspections, hangar
rent, maintenance, etc., and you have to manage all that as well.
I suspect that a flying club is the most economical way fly, if you don't
mind sharing, scheduling, and trust their maintenance director (with your
life).
We're talking 1950's through the late 1970's machines for the most part,
maintenance is critical.

Grant and Dan are right on - - -

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Be a baby sitter for one of those new self-driving trucks.  Now THAT'S the
life.  :)

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 9:50 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Maybe you ought to become a long haul truck driver instead of a pilot,
> Kaleb.
> A WW2 pilot I knew, who couldn't find a flying job after the war, bought a
> truck and hauled produce until he did find a flying job.
> He said truck driving was a lot less boring than flying.
> You could buy one of Craigs trucks and haul produce or lease to a trucking
> company. After your kids have left home you could teach your wife to drive
> the truck, and you and her could become a team. According to a truckers
> magazine, there are a lot of husband wife teams in trucking.
> Just a thought.
> Gerry
>
>
> "Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>
> > This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend
> today.  The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue
> a career change to commercial pilot.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
> > > will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
> > >
> > > Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
> > > much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just
> right"
> > > or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull
> over
> > > and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you
> take
> > > off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
> > >
> > > Grant...
> > > Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
> > > Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
> > > aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
> > > I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the
> ground,
> > > earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with
> instructor if
> > > you really want to do it.
> > > And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
> > > never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off
> renting
> > >> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > >> http://www.avg.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> arche...@embarqmail.com 
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Maybe you ought to become a long haul truck driver instead of a pilot, Kaleb.
A WW2 pilot I knew, who couldn't find a flying job after the war, bought a 
truck and hauled produce until he did find a flying job. 
He said truck driving was a lot less boring than flying.
You could buy one of Craigs trucks and haul produce or lease to a trucking 
company. After your kids have left home you could teach your wife to drive the 
truck, and you and her could become a team. According to a truckers magazine, 
there are a lot of husband wife teams in trucking.
Just a thought.
Gerry


"Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend today.  
> The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue a career 
> change to commercial pilot. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
> > will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
> > 
> > Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
> > much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
> > or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull over
> > and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
> > off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
> > 
> > Grant...
> > Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
> > Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
> > aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
> > I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
> > earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor if
> > you really want to do it.
> > And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
> > never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
> >> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> >> http://www.avg.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The problem with this as I recently read is that the regionals have become a 
sort of pilot purgatory that you can never get out of.  While they’re hiring 
pilots with less than 2,000 hours (think about how long it’s going to take to 
get those!) they’re working them to death and still not paying them a living 
wage.  Those signing bonuses go away after the first year, meaning your 
(friend’s) salary drops back down to a pittance.  Add to that the money they’ll 
have to recover to pay for those lessons and flight time before they ever get 
behind the yoke of a commuter and they’ll be better off working as a greeter at 
Walmart.

https://www.airlinepilot.life/t/what-happens-to-a-regional-pilots-salary-after-their-first-year/1906

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/

-D



> On Mar 22, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I had been seeing and hearing that the regionals are hiring like mad right 
> now and you can get thru training and hired in about 2 years. They are 
> supposedly starting out at 60k a year for FO and upgrade to captain within 18 
> months with huge sign on bonuses. I would not think a 40 year old would ever 
> make it to the majors though. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2018, at 10:14 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> At 40+ the uphill struggle gets "more uphill". Lots of young pups with
>> plenty of vigor competing for the slot you want.
>> It takes time to build the hours necessary to fly "commercial class"
>> aircraft. Those hours are most often build flying as a flight instructor,
>> or hauling freight, or something less desirable than "flying the big ones
>> loaded with passengers.."  Expect 8 to 10 years before anyone will look at
>> hiring him for a co-pilot slot in a heavy, after working his way up the
>> ladder flying regional airlines and such...
>> Type certifications typically cost around $35,000.00 and they are "on your
>> nickle" most often... bigger aircraft cost more... then, there  is the
>> issue of flight physical... Is he healthy? Will he stay healthy past 55?
>> ATP rated pilots [airline transport pilot] require a First Class Medical
>> exam every 90 days... anything less than perfect... you have a problem at
>> payday... cause you can't fly.
>> 
>> It's a tough life. How many ex wives does he have? Flying takes you away
>> from home a lot.. women don't "store well". etc etc..
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend
>>> today.  The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue
>>> a career change to commercial pilot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
 
 Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
 will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
 
 Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
 much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
 or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull
>>> over
 and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
 off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
 
 Grant...
 Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
 Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
 aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
 I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
 earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor
>>> if
 you really want to do it.
 And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
 never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
 
 
 
 On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off
>>> renting
> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> 
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 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/ar

Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I had been seeing and hearing that the regionals are hiring like mad right now 
and you can get thru training and hired in about 2 years. They are supposedly 
starting out at 60k a year for FO and upgrade to captain within 18 months with 
huge sign on bonuses. I would not think a 40 year old would ever make it to the 
majors though. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2018, at 10:14 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> At 40+ the uphill struggle gets "more uphill". Lots of young pups with
> plenty of vigor competing for the slot you want.
> It takes time to build the hours necessary to fly "commercial class"
> aircraft. Those hours are most often build flying as a flight instructor,
> or hauling freight, or something less desirable than "flying the big ones
> loaded with passengers.."  Expect 8 to 10 years before anyone will look at
> hiring him for a co-pilot slot in a heavy, after working his way up the
> ladder flying regional airlines and such...
> Type certifications typically cost around $35,000.00 and they are "on your
> nickle" most often... bigger aircraft cost more... then, there  is the
> issue of flight physical... Is he healthy? Will he stay healthy past 55?
> ATP rated pilots [airline transport pilot] require a First Class Medical
> exam every 90 days... anything less than perfect... you have a problem at
> payday... cause you can't fly.
> 
> It's a tough life. How many ex wives does he have? Flying takes you away
> from home a lot.. women don't "store well". etc etc..
> 
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend
>> today.  The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue
>> a career change to commercial pilot.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
>>> will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
>>> 
>>> Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
>>> much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
>>> or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull
>> over
>>> and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
>>> off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
>>> 
>>> Grant...
>>> Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
>>> Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
>>> aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
>>> I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
>>> earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor
>> if
>>> you really want to do it.
>>> And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
>>> never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off
>> renting
 a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
 
 
 ---
 This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
 http://www.avg.com
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

At 40+ the uphill struggle gets "more uphill". Lots of young pups with
plenty of vigor competing for the slot you want.
It takes time to build the hours necessary to fly "commercial class"
aircraft. Those hours are most often build flying as a flight instructor,
or hauling freight, or something less desirable than "flying the big ones
loaded with passengers.."  Expect 8 to 10 years before anyone will look at
hiring him for a co-pilot slot in a heavy, after working his way up the
ladder flying regional airlines and such...
Type certifications typically cost around $35,000.00 and they are "on your
nickle" most often... bigger aircraft cost more... then, there  is the
issue of flight physical... Is he healthy? Will he stay healthy past 55?
ATP rated pilots [airline transport pilot] require a First Class Medical
exam every 90 days... anything less than perfect... you have a problem at
payday... cause you can't fly.

It's a tough life. How many ex wives does he have? Flying takes you away
from home a lot.. women don't "store well". etc etc..

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend
> today.  The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue
> a career change to commercial pilot.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
> > will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
> >
> > Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
> > much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
> > or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull
> over
> > and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
> > off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
> >
> > Grant...
> > Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
> > Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
> > aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
> > I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
> > earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor
> if
> > you really want to do it.
> > And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
> > never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off
> renting
> >> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> >> http://www.avg.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >
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> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

This is not necessarily for me but was talking about it with a friend today.  
The other discussion was about if early 40’s was too old to pursue a career 
change to commercial pilot. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2018, at 9:30 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
> will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.
> 
> Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
> much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
> or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull over
> and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
> off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.
> 
> Grant...
> Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
> Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
> aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
> I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
> earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor if
> you really want to do it.
> And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
> never spell "cheap" with them... ;))
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
>> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Rent the plane AND the instructor pilot while you learn. Capital outlay
will be less, your pace will be more relaxed, and you will learn more.

Qualifying for a pilots license isn't like a car driving license. Takes
much longer and involves many more details that must be done "just right"
or you die. There are no "parking lots" in the sky where you "pull over
and sort it out". All aircraft wrecks start on the ground before you take
off. Find a good Certified Flight Instructor and stick with them.

Grant...
Commercial Pilot, fixed wing and helicopter, Multi Engine,  Instrument,
Restricted Aircraft endorsements, multiple type certificates, low level
aerobatic endorsements. etc etc etc.
I've spent a considerable amount of time not in contact with the ground,
earning a living. You will know in first 10 hours flying with instructor if
you really want to do it.
And, remember, take all the letters in the word "aviation" and you will
never spell "cheap" with them... ;))



On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting
> a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

If it flies, floats, or..., lease don’t buy

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2018, at 10:13 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off renting a 
> plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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[MBZ] OT, for the fly boys on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If a person wanted to get their private ticket, are you better off 
renting a plane or buying/buy a share of a plane?



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


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