Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars 2ejuremy
I figure that if you aren't moving out by the time it gets that noticeable you may not make it out no matter what it is that's burning. With all the plastics and other man-made chemicals in todays houses, flashover happens a whole lot quicker then it used to even 40 years ago. Once the flashover happens your chances of getting out are not too good. Quite a rush though if you have the protective gear and breathing apparatus and have a hose right there to get it under control. Manfred Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:43:39 -0500 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Re: abuse of cars 2ejuremy Maybe, but is the issue with the foamboard not more of a concern with the gases it gives off when there is a fire? Most plastics are not friendly to the lungs in a fire. Maybe wood smoke is not either, but I think I would rather take my chances with it than the plastic smoke. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
If I had it to do over again, I would put styrofoam under but my garage was built in 1985 and the floor is still solid so I don't think I want to break it up and start over. My moisture problem is only a short term issue a couple of times a year so not too bad. Just annoying when it occurs. A vapour barrier and a wood floor over would maybe work but then the wood would be a problem. The cars drip moisture etc. I doubt I could keep the stuff coated in a manner that would prevent rot etc. Even treated plywood would not likely last very long. Randy On 16/04/2012 6:04 PM, Dave Cavner wrote: On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy Moisture definitely migrates upward through slabs. The floor covering industry has used this test to quantify the amount for decades: http://www.vaportest.com/Webpages/calcium_chloride_test.htm Current thinking is rigid insulation before the pour is the best method to eliminate the issue. The amount of insulation depends on your climate zone. Current best practices outlined here: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-059-slab-happy/ Lots of good info on that site regarding moisture content in dwellings - and how to solve the problem. Overkill for most retrofits. My favorite annecdotal quote is an off-topic post from a wood pellet stove forum: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75919/P0/ ...Somebody on here was advising under-slab insulation even for an unheated garage, which sounded like a pretty good idea. Reply from a guy in SW Maine I have no heated slabs of the 5 on my property. I have styrofoam under 4-and-a-half of them. Guess where it's dark and damp in muggy or rainy weather. I can stack bags of grain on the slab in my rodent-proof room (insulated but not heated) and they never get mildewed against the floor. Whoever said it, I can agree with conviction based on experience. Dave SoCal ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Give Fluid Film a try for the table saw deck and jointer. Short of heating the garage I'm not sure how to remove the moisture- well you could run some de- humidifiers! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
I would say to put a vapor barrier on the floor (just a big sheet of Visqueen) and as for your tools, Cosmoline. Not a lot you can do for the airborne moisture as far as the machined surfaces go without encapsulating them in something, but as for the car I would put a big honking piece of plastic down between it and the floor. It won't eliminate the moisture but it will prevent it from condensing on the bottom of the car. I could write up a long term storage procedure like I did on occasion for industrial engines, but I suspect that's far beyond what you're willing to do for the car Dan On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
How about a dehumidifier with a hose draining it to the outside? How about spraying the tools with something like Boeshield T-9? Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 2:27 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Give Fluid Film a try for the table saw deck and jointer. Short of heating the garage I'm not sure how to remove the moisture- well you could run some de- humidifiers! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com I'll second the de-humidifier idea, will benefit both car and tools but will cost electricity and you'll probably need to plumb a drain, or make frequent visits. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Electricity cost will not be cheap. You could drill a hole to the outside of the garage and attach a hose to the dehumidifier which can be routed through the hole. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Give Fluid Film a try for the table saw deck and jointer. Short of heating the garage I'm not sure how to remove the moisture- well you could run some de- humidifiers! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com I'll second the de-humidifier idea, will benefit both car and tools but will cost electricity and you'll probably need to plumb a drain, or make frequent visits. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
I have tried to avoid using oily things as I would have to clean them in the spring before I started cutting wood again. I have used some of the commercial spray cans touted for the purpose but they are not doing the job. Cleaners and conditioners sort of things. They work fine in my basement at home but not in the garage. Maybe even paste wax would be sufficient. If I just wiped on a thick coat in the fall and did not buff it out, that might work. Dehumidifiers don't work well at low temperatures. I wonder about the salt crystal stuff but it is so corrosive that it might cause its own problems. I also do wonder if more ventilation would help. It might make things worse temporarily but if one blew enough of the outside air inside, then things should equalize. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:38 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Give Fluid Film a try for the table saw deck and jointer. Short of heating the garage I'm not sure how to remove the moisture- well you could run some de- humidifiers! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
The poly might be worth a try. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:40 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I would say to put a vapor barrier on the floor (just a big sheet of Visqueen) and as for your tools, Cosmoline. Not a lot you can do for the airborne moisture as far as the machined surfaces go without encapsulating them in something, but as for the car I would put a big honking piece of plastic down between it and the floor. It won't eliminate the moisture but it will prevent it from condensing on the bottom of the car. I could write up a long term storage procedure like I did on occasion for industrial engines, but I suspect that's far beyond what you're willing to do for the car Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Or cover your floor with wooden planks ? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:04 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: The poly might be worth a try. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:40 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I would say to put a vapor barrier on the floor (just a big sheet of Visqueen) and as for your tools, Cosmoline. Not a lot you can do for the airborne moisture as far as the machined surfaces go without encapsulating them in something, but as for the car I would put a big honking piece of plastic down between it and the floor. It won't eliminate the moisture but it will prevent it from condensing on the bottom of the car. I could write up a long term storage procedure like I did on occasion for industrial engines, but I suspect that's far beyond what you're willing to do for the car Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Plastic film is cheap and easily removed each season. Painting an existing concrete floor and getting it to stick is a major undertaking, and I have yet to do it successfully on two occasions. All I am thinking about is having a vapor barrier between the floor and the car - that should be adequate enough to prevent the bottom of the car having condensation form on it, I would think. Sort of like a vapor barrier in a crawl space Dan On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Max wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:13:26 -0400 Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? Both the plastic film and painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant will help reduce/stop the transmission of sub-grade moisture into the garage. Both the plastic film and painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant will NOT stop airborne moisture from condensing. Insulating the concrete will help reduce/stop condensation. A wood deck could help with this, but it will need to be solid to keep the moisture away from the cold concrete, else the bottom side of the wood deck will be saturated with the condensation and will rot (unless it's treated). And a lot of moisture underneath the wood would likely be wicked up into the garage air. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Max wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Well then put a vapor barrier over the concrete and then cover with warm wood. Now you are protected from the top and bottom! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Max wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
It seeps, because concrete cracks and water table rises. If you are below grade, it will seep in the walls and live on the floor. Only way to properly deal with this, is to heat the space and keep a dehumidifier going in the wet months. On Apr 16, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Max wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
I have been thinking of this. I do not have indoor storage for cars, so the ones I am not driving, or the projects to be done maybe I should park them over a tarp? Would that help at all? On 4/16/2012 4:40 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I would say to put a vapor barrier on the floor (just a big sheet of Visqueen) and as for your tools, Cosmoline. Not a lot you can do for the airborne moisture as far as the machined surfaces go without encapsulating them in something, but as for the car I would put a big honking piece of plastic down between it and the floor. It won't eliminate the moisture but it will prevent it from condensing on the bottom of the car. I could write up a long term storage procedure like I did on occasion for industrial engines, but I suspect that's far beyond what you're willing to do for the car Dan On Apr 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: When I was typing that, I thought to myself, someone is going to raise the definition of abuse. I guess I cannot argue but sometimes it is difficult to prevent. We leave my mother's car in the garage at the lake in the fall and it stays inside until mid May. Unfortunately, the spring tends to be damp when the snow melts etc. My shop tools in the same garage - table saw and jointer etc - will need to have the rust removed before I start to use them. I have tried different sorts of treatments to the tops but it is just damp in there. I would like to find a way to prevent the dampness but about the only thing I can think of that would work, would be to heat it. I don't think that ventilating would help much. The problem is that the air outside is warmer and moist and the cold concrete floor inside sweats as a result of that. We get some of that in the summer when it is humid. I had the same problem in my garage at home in the city for a few days this spring. It looked like someone had sprayed the floor with a hose. There were literally puddles. Essentially because it was very damp out and the inside of the garage was much colder than the outdoor temperature. All was well until we opened the big door and let the warmer moist air into the garage. If anyone has a solution, I sure would like to hear it. My only thought is that one would need to warm up the concrete floor and that woudl be difficult when there is frost in the ground. If I had the heated floor setup it would be great but I cannot see myself installing that in the garage anytime soon. Randy On 16/04/2012 4:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: True but improper storage is a kind of abuse as is not washing the salt off your car. It's also abusive to treat your low mileage survivor to a below average paint job! Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4940 - Release Date: 04/16/12 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy Moisture definitely migrates upward through slabs. The floor covering industry has used this test to quantify the amount for decades: http://www.vaportest.com/Webpages/calcium_chloride_test.htm Current thinking is rigid insulation before the pour is the best method to eliminate the issue. The amount of insulation depends on your climate zone. Current best practices outlined here: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-059-slab-happy/ Lots of good info on that site regarding moisture content in dwellings - and how to solve the problem. Overkill for most retrofits. My favorite annecdotal quote is an off-topic post from a wood pellet stove forum: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75919/P0/ ...Somebody on here was advising under-slab insulation even for an unheated garage, which sounded like a pretty good idea. Reply from a guy in SW Maine I have no heated slabs of the 5 on my property. I have styrofoam under 4-and-a-half of them. Guess where it's dark and damp in muggy or rainy weather. I can stack bags of grain on the slab in my rodent-proof room (insulated but not heated) and they never get mildewed against the floor. Whoever said it, I can agree with conviction based on experience. Dave SoCal ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
If there was no vapor barrier laid beneath the concrete before it was poured, you can expect a LOT of moisture to rise through it because of the differences in vapor pressure - temperature and humidity - in effect, a big natural pump sucking water vapor through the concrete. Without a vapor barrier beneath the concrete, it is very hard to SEAL the top surface of the concrete with a paint or epoxy - vapor still comes up through the concrete and collects in pockets/bubbles between the top surface of the concrete and the paint/epoxy, which then spalls off. Moisture in the warm air from outside does, indeed, condense on the cold concrete, but a LOT of moisture comes up through the concrete, too, and then, of course, also condenses on the surface in addition to increasing relative humidity in the building. Improve ventilation in the building could help. Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. Randy On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Max wrote: To follow up on the plastic film idea, I wonder if painting the concrete with an epoxy sealant would help? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] abuse of cars
Randy wrote: I doubt it. I don't think the water comes up through the concrete. I think it condenses on the surface because the concrete is cold and the air is warmer and humid. My son stored his motorcycle inside the outbuilding next door over the winter. He put it in a bike bag that was waterproof and contained a cache of dessicant. That arrangement kept everything nice and dry. Perhaps the company that makes that makes these for cars? Or equipment? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
