Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

The indy who worked on my E300D and other benz would evacuate the system 
(having all the tools and holding tanks) then insert the appropriate amount of 
refrigerant.  That gets real expensive when we were looking for the mystery 
leak.  Gave up on the ice cold air after many Benjamins were spent

clay

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, it’s an R134a car.
> 
> Good to know about the W210s. Knock on wood I’ve never had a problem with AC 
> on either of my W210s, although my youngest son says the 2002 E320 he drives 
> doesn’t have “portal to the Arctic” AC like mine. My attitude is to leave it 
> alone if it isn’t broken.
> 
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes, it’s an R134a car.

Good to know about the W210s. Knock on wood I’ve never had a problem with AC on 
either of my W210s, although my youngest son says the 2002 E320 he drives 
doesn’t have “portal to the Arctic” AC like mine. My attitude is to leave it 
alone if it isn’t broken.

-D


> On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On that car it may not matter too much. I did some research on the W210 and 
> they are very finicky if you don't put in exactly 2.2 pounds (1kg) of 
> refrigerant.
> That is almost 36 oz. If it's working as designed, I probably wouldn't mess 
> with it. That's an R134a car, correct? I wonder if they changed the condenser 
> design for the facelift model years?
> 
> Rick
> 
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Sent: July 21, 2019 3:36 PM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: d...@penoff.com
> Subject: [MBZ] AC Question
> 
> Something I was pondering the other day whilst topping off the AC in the 1995 
> E300D…
> 
> The sticker on the radiator support says 2.3 pounds of refrigerant for the 
> system. Is that what should be in it no matter what? That is, when I’ve 
> charged it in the past I can put 24 ounces (two cans) of refrigerant in it, 
> get correct pressures and vent temperatures, and it seems perfectly happy.
> 
> Should I put the 2.3 pounds in it anyway? If I do, how will that affect 
> performance? Or does it even matter if the system is working properly with a 
> lower charge?
> 
> Pondering…
> 
> -D
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That makes sense. I was just trying to determine if the value given was the 
maximum charge or what the charge should be.

Sounds like the next time I do a full evacuate and charge I should put in 2.3 
pounds then. That’s just about 3 cans….

Thanks!

-D




> On Jul 21, 2019, at 4:58 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The extra will give you a little more capacity in extremely hot conditions 
> (idling in traffic, for instance) by allowing some liquid refrigerant in the 
> system with slow compressor speed.
> 
> It's also  a buffer against the normal very small losses of refrigerant 
> inherent in an automotive system.
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I just put in what it calls for. No need to second guess the factory. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Something I was pondering the other day whilst topping off the AC in the 1995 
> E300D…
> 
> The sticker on the radiator support says 2.3 pounds of refrigerant for the 
> system. Is that what should be in it no matter what? That is, when I’ve 
> charged it in the past I can put 24 ounces (two cans) of refrigerant in it, 
> get correct pressures and vent temperatures, and it seems perfectly happy.
> 
> Should I put the 2.3 pounds in it anyway? If I do, how will that affect 
> performance? Or does it even matter if the system is working properly with a 
> lower charge?
> 
> Pondering…
> 
> -D
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

On that car it may not matter too much. I did some research on the W210 and 
they are very finicky if you don't put in exactly 2.2 pounds (1kg) of 
refrigerant.
That is almost 36 oz. If it's working as designed, I probably wouldn't mess 
with it. That's an R134a car, correct? I wonder if they changed the condenser 
design for the facelift model years?

Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: July 21, 2019 3:36 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: d...@penoff.com
Subject: [MBZ] AC Question

Something I was pondering the other day whilst topping off the AC in the 1995 
E300D…

The sticker on the radiator support says 2.3 pounds of refrigerant for the 
system. Is that what should be in it no matter what? That is, when I’ve charged 
it in the past I can put 24 ounces (two cans) of refrigerant in it, get correct 
pressures and vent temperatures, and it seems perfectly happy.

Should I put the 2.3 pounds in it anyway? If I do, how will that affect 
performance? Or does it even matter if the system is working properly with a 
lower charge?

Pondering…

-D


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The extra will give you a little more capacity in extremely hot conditions 
(idling in traffic, for instance) by allowing some liquid refrigerant in the 
system with slow compressor speed.

It's also  a buffer against the normal very small losses of refrigerant 
inherent in an automotive system.
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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yea I do, didn’t think of that. Easy enough to put them back on.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2018, at 6:32 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Do you still have the plugs that were in it when you got it? If so, close
> it up. If not, order a new one . . .
> 
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> So when I did the R134 conversion I changed the drier or course. So I am
>> going to have to open the system again to replace the hoses.  Since I just
>> changed the drier if I was doing a quick open and close of the system, I
>> would probably just pull a vacuum and not change the drier again.  Most
>> likely I will end up pulling the manifold and having new hoses installed,
>> so it might be open for days.  In that case, even though the drier is new,
>> am I going with the correct assumption I should replace the drier again?
>> 
>> 
>> ---
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Do you still have the plugs that were in it when you got it? If so, close
it up. If not, order a new one . . .

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So when I did the R134 conversion I changed the drier or course. So I am
> going to have to open the system again to replace the hoses.  Since I just
> changed the drier if I was doing a quick open and close of the system, I
> would probably just pull a vacuum and not change the drier again.  Most
> likely I will end up pulling the manifold and having new hoses installed,
> so it might be open for days.  In that case, even though the drier is new,
> am I going with the correct assumption I should replace the drier again?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
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OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[clay via Mercedes]

Reading the manual for the SD I find that changing the system to max cool and 
high fan will cut out fresh air to the cabin.  Normal mix seems to be 60/40 
using auto fan

clay

> On Jul 22, 2017, at 4:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On July 22, 2017 at 7:21 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks Guys -
>> re Outside Air - this is a W124 with ACC so all that stuff is done 
>> automatically. 
> 
> I thought the only control for outside/inside air was the recirc button?
> Or am I thinking of the W140/W210 ACC?
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:08:36 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> That doesn't sound right.  On both my '87 and my '95, the Recirc button
> works in Auto, Economy.  The system will draw in outside air at all times
> unless the Recirc button is pushed, and then it has a timer so after 45
> minutes or so it starts drawing outside air again.

All the W124s I have seen work the same way, Max. Outside air except when
the recirculation button is pressed.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

That doesn't sound right.  On both my '87 and my '95, the Recirc button
works in Auto, Economy.  The system will draw in outside air at all times
unless the Recirc button is pushed, and then it has a timer so after 45
minutes or so it starts drawing outside air again.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yep, my 124 has a Recirc Button, the only way to introduce outside air to
> to push the far right button which turns off the AC and turns the Outside
> Air On.
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Yep, my 124 has a Recirc Button, the only way to introduce outside air 
to to push the far right button which turns off the AC and turns the 
Outside Air On.  Then it's temp is controlled with the Temp roller.
I know some have criticized the ACC but I have followed the OM advice 
and left it in the Auto Position so the ACC controls the on/off of 
everything and everything gets exercised.


I had the 134a topped off and it's blowing cold again.  I repaired it in 
2014 so if I continue to get ~3 years or so out of a fill I'll be happy.


Thanks Gang!
LarryT
91 300D

On 07/22/2017 7:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On July 22, 2017 at 7:21 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:


Thanks Guys -
re Outside Air - this is a W124 with ACC so all that stuff is done
automatically.

I thought the only control for outside/inside air was the recirc button?
Or am I thinking of the W140/W210 ACC?
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Mitch is correct, Larry is wrong - the re-circulation button must be
engaged manually on a 124.

However, if the system was working before and now the performance is
degraded, that may no solve the problem.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On July 22, 2017 at 7:21 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thanks Guys -
> > re Outside Air - this is a W124 with ACC so all that stuff is done
> > automatically.
>
> I thought the only control for outside/inside air was the recirc button?
> Or am I thinking of the W140/W210 ACC?
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On July 22, 2017 at 7:21 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks Guys -
> re Outside Air - this is a W124 with ACC so all that stuff is done 
> automatically. 

I thought the only control for outside/inside air was the recirc button?
Or am I thinking of the W140/W210 ACC?
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Thanks Guys -
re Outside Air - this is a W124 with ACC so all that stuff is done 
automatically.  But I'll make sure that servo is working properly.

My wife drove is some yesterday and reported cold air again.
LarryT

On 07/21/2017 10:19 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

If your car has an outside air/inside air setting, be sure it's not set on 
outside air. Cool air at night doesn't affect the inside temp as much as 
outside air in the heat of the day. Also,you might get a $50-60 set of gauges 
from HF or elsewhere and follow instructions.
FLAPS has books on auto AC as do several websites. You might Google "using freon 
gauges" or something like that.
Good luck,
Gerry
  

Hi Gang,
Some may remember back in 2014 when I R&R'd my AC Evaporator (had to do it 
twice when I found I had a DOA Evap)  to fix a leak.  It worked great until this 
year when it was no longer cooling the cabin properly.  The odd (IMO) symptom is it 
worked great on cloudy days, when the humidity is low or at night.  It cools so 
good my wife would turn the AC down because she'd get cold (very unusual for her).  
I figure the 134a is low?  Is that a reasonable assumption?  Had the freon checked 
today but I wasn't able to take it as I'm recovering (once again) from a total knee 
replacement.   My wife is not very specific when I ask her is it's working better 
but that's just her way.  So this is my 4 knee replacement on my left knee (the 1st 
3 broke) and this one appeared to be loose after 2 freaking weeks.  So I have been 
stuck in bed since 5/31.
back to the AC - the weather here is typical mid-summer heat - in the mid to 
upper 90s so if the car has been parked outside it takes a while for the cabin 
to cool off in the best situation. So I think it's had some Freon in it but not 
enough to cool during the heat of our days this summer.

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
LarryT
91 300D


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

If your car has an outside air/inside air setting, be sure it's not set on 
outside air. Cool air at night doesn't affect the inside temp as much as 
outside air in the heat of the day. Also,you might get a $50-60 set of gauges 
from HF or elsewhere and follow instructions.
FLAPS has books on auto AC as do several websites. You might Google "using 
freon gauges" or something like that.
Good luck,
Gerry 
 
> > Hi Gang,
> > Some may remember back in 2014 when I R&R'd my AC Evaporator (had to do it 
> > twice when I found I had a DOA Evap)  to fix a leak.  It worked great until 
> > this year when it was no longer cooling the cabin properly.  The odd (IMO) 
> > symptom is it worked great on cloudy days, when the humidity is low or at 
> > night.  It cools so good my wife would turn the AC down because she'd get 
> > cold (very unusual for her).  I figure the 134a is low?  Is that a 
> > reasonable assumption?  Had the freon checked today but I wasn't able to 
> > take it as I'm recovering (once again) from a total knee replacement.   My 
> > wife is not very specific when I ask her is it's working better but that's 
> > just her way.  So this is my 4 knee replacement on my left knee (the 1st 3 
> > broke) and this one appeared to be loose after 2 freaking weeks.  So I have 
> > been stuck in bed since 5/31.
> > back to the AC - the weather here is typical mid-summer heat - in the mid 
> > to upper 90s so if the car has been parked outside it takes a while for the 
> > cabin to cool off in the best situation. So I think it's had some Freon in 
> > it but not enough to cool during the heat of our days this summer.
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > Thanks,
> > LarryT
> > 91 300D


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question W124 91 300D re Evap Repl.

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Very hard to tell from what you mention. Is the aux fan running? That will make 
a big difference. Could be a little low also. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Gang,
> Some may remember back in 2014 when I R&R'd my AC Evaporator (had to do it 
> twice when I found I had a DOA Evap)  to fix a leak.  It worked great until 
> this year when it was no longer cooling the cabin properly.  The odd (IMO) 
> symptom is it worked great on cloudy days, when the humidity is low or at 
> night.  It cools so good my wife would turn the AC down because she'd get 
> cold (very unusual for her).  I figure the 134a is low?  Is that a reasonable 
> assumption?  Had the freon checked today but I wasn't able to take it as I'm 
> recovering (once again) from a total knee replacement.   My wife is not very 
> specific when I ask her is it's working better but that's just her way.  So 
> this is my 4 knee replacement on my left knee (the 1st 3 broke) and this one 
> appeared to be loose after 2 freaking weeks.  So I have been stuck in bed 
> since 5/31.
> back to the AC - the weather here is typical mid-summer heat - in the mid to 
> upper 90s so if the car has been parked outside it takes a while for the 
> cabin to cool off in the best situation. So I think it's had some Freon in it 
> but not enough to cool during the heat of our days this summer.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
> LarryT
> 91 300D
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That would make sense, since there’s no airflow to speak of through the 
condenser while the car isn’t moving.  I’ll check the fans and add the resistor 
mod that lowers their turn on threshold as well.  I’m pretty sure I have some 
of the correct value in the parts box…

Dan


> On May 12, 2017, at 10:03 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Trust me the 124 in native 134 will freeze you out if it's working like it 
> should. Be sure your aux fans on running on low when the ac is on. If not 
> it's probably the resistor which is common on those. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The clear sight glass was _only_ an R12 thing.  If your system is fully
>> charged and not deficient in airflow (dirt, leaves, bad fans), your only
>> option is to use a refrigerant that is _more_ efficient than R134a.  Such
>> as one of the hydrocarbon blends.
>> 
>> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Trust me the 124 in native 134 will freeze you out if it's working like it 
should. Be sure your aux fans on running on low when the ac is on. If not it's 
probably the resistor which is common on those. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The clear sight glass was _only_ an R12 thing.  If your system is fully
> charged and not deficient in airflow (dirt, leaves, bad fans), your only
> option is to use a refrigerant that is _more_ efficient than R134a.  Such
> as one of the hydrocarbon blends.
> 
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I would evacuate it and recharge to proper weight so you know for sure. Of 
course it's easy for me to do since I have an ac machine. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 12, 2017, at 8:11 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> AC in the E300D is decent, but not “ICE COLD”.  At stop lights or at idle it 
> blows cold, but not icy cold like it does when the car gets moving.
> 
> It is a native R134a system, not a conversion.  Pressures are pretty much on 
> the spot for ambient temperature and humidity. so I have to believe it’s at 
> or near a full charge.
> 
> I noticed that the flow in the sight glass is really “foamy”, that is, not 
> clear with just some occasional bubbles, but like a whitish foam the whole 
> time.  I’m wondering if there is moisture in the system and if it might 
> benefit from being pulled down for a few hours and recharged?
> 
> Or should I just leave well enough alone?
> 
> -D
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

The clear sight glass was _only_ an R12 thing.  If your system is fully
charged and not deficient in airflow (dirt, leaves, bad fans), your only
option is to use a refrigerant that is _more_ efficient than R134a.  Such
as one of the hydrocarbon blends.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I bought the Elitech halogen leak detector HLD-100+.  Haven't tried it yet, but 
it had decent reviews IIRC.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On October 23, 2016 4:41:18 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Which one?  There are a couple of them in this price range, one of
>which doesn’t have the greatest reviews…
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dan
>
>
>> On Oct 23, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> Check Amazon, I just bought a cheap sniffer for about $30 or so.
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
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>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Didn’t occur to me to look there.  Duh!


> On Oct 23, 2016, at 5:57 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just get the HF one, use a 20% coupon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Just get the HF one, use a 20% coupon.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Which one?  There are a couple of them in this price range, one of which 
> doesn’t have the greatest reviews…
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Check Amazon, I just bought a cheap sniffer for about $30 or so.
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Which one?  There are a couple of them in this price range, one of which 
doesn’t have the greatest reviews…

Thanks,

Dan


> On Oct 23, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Check Amazon, I just bought a cheap sniffer for about $30 or so.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Check Amazon, I just bought a cheap sniffer for about $30 or so.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

In commercial building HVAC, you are required to fix when the leak gets worse
than 25lb of R22 a year. Not sure what the requirements are for R410a, or for
R134a in cars. I think charging is OK but deliberately venting instead of
recovering is a $10k fine. 
Mitch. 

> On October 22, 2016 at 6:51 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> The "real" guys would charge it with nitrogen/dye/oil for this kind of a test
> no?
> Not supposed to charge a leaky system due to the "TERRIBLE" effects of
> R-anything on the environment...

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The "real" guys would charge it with nitrogen/dye/oil for this kind of a test 
no?
Not supposed to charge a leaky system due to the "TERRIBLE" effects of 
R-anything on the environment...

-Curt


  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes List  
Cc: Dan Penoff 
 Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 1:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Question
   
Yeah, I guess I could.  I hate putting that stuff in the system.  I would also 
have to charge it as well.

Probably my only real choice, I guess.

Dan


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 22, 2016 at 1:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> 
>> wrote:
>> I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is 
> 
> UV dye and a LED blacklight?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Ahhh - hadn’t thought about that!  Considering that it takes an hour to get 
down to 10” of Hg I’m suspecting (hoping) a leaking O ring.

Dan


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Those have been the places mine have leaked suddenly.
> 
> Also look for an oily spot on the condenser -- road debris damage can put a 
> hole in it.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Those have been the places mine have leaked suddenly.

Also look for an oily spot on the condenser -- road debris damage can  
put a hole in it.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Thanks, Peter, I appreciate the information.  I’m hoping it’s just a blown out 
O ring.  It happened suddenly enough that I have to believe it’s a failure of 
an O ring or seal, as the system has been holding pressure for probably 5-6 
months without a hitch.

Dan


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Three places for leaks on these systems you need to check:
> 
> Between compressor and hose manifold fitting -- usually the high side 0-ring 
> erodes through.
> Manifold to hose set on the compressor, one one screw holding them on, tends 
> to leak when the o-rings get tired.
> Hot side o-ring between compressor line and condenser.
> 
> I've also found leaks at the cold side of the condenser, the small hose 
> becomes loose on the fittings and leaks.  Some of these will leak a lot more 
> under pressure than under vacuum, particularly the small hose between 
> condenser and receiver/dryer.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Three places for leaks on these systems you need to check:

Between compressor and hose manifold fitting -- usually the high side  
0-ring erodes through.
Manifold to hose set on the compressor, one one screw holding them on,  
tends to leak when the o-rings get tired.

Hot side o-ring between compressor line and condenser.

I've also found leaks at the cold side of the condenser, the small  
hose becomes loose on the fittings and leaks.  Some of these will leak  
a lot more under pressure than under vacuum, particularly the small  
hose between condenser and receiver/dryer.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That’s why I’m suspecting the shaft seal.  Nothing has changed or been 
disturbed with the system, it simply stopped working one day.

And yes, I know pulling the radiator isn’t a big deal.  I wasn’t sure how the 
condenser came out - I found a good DIY with pictures at PeachParts and it 
looks like it just tips out the back of the crossmember without too much effort.

I’m going to put some refrigerant with dye in it and see where it shows up.  
Anything else at this point is just conjecture.  If it is the compressor I’ll 
probably go with a new condenser as well jut to get the efficiency of the 
system bumped up.

Couldn’t have happened at a better time - it’s only in the 70s here and will be 
as cold as the high 40s at night over the next week….

Dan




> On Oct 22, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If it leaks from 30 to 10 in 45 minutes that's a pretty significant leak.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> OK, I’ve ordered a UV light and glasses.  I have a can of R134a with dye in 
>> it that is left over from a friend’s car - I could use that as I don’t 
>> expect it will take much to charge it and at least get some pressure in it 
>> to run.
>> 
>> It’s been sitting for 45 minutes now and it’s leaked down to about 10” Hg, 
>> so the leak doesn’t appear to be massive by any means.
>> 
>> Thanks, everyone.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If it leaks from 30 to 10 in 45 minutes that's a pretty significant leak.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> OK, I’ve ordered a UV light and glasses.  I have a can of R134a with dye in 
> it that is left over from a friend’s car - I could use that as I don’t expect 
> it will take much to charge it and at least get some pressure in it to run.
> 
> It’s been sitting for 45 minutes now and it’s leaked down to about 10” Hg, so 
> the leak doesn’t appear to be massive by any means.
> 
> Thanks, everyone.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes but it's not very hard to pull the radiator.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Of course, I mention how well my AC is working and I come home last night and 
> guess what?  No AC.  Grrr.
> 
> I put the vacuum pump on it this morning and it pulled a vacuum within 
> seconds.  Got all the way down to the requisite 29.9” of Hg or whatever, but 
> after 30 minutes it was only holding about 20-22” of Hg.
> 
> My killer leak sealer says if it will hold a vacuum for a minimum of 5 
> minutes it should seal the system no problem.  I’m wondering if it’s a 
> compressor shaft seal, however.  Of course no matter of leak sealer will fix 
> that.  I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is any other way 
> of checking it?
> 
> I’ve ordered a new receiver-dryer in anticipation of pulling down the system 
> and sealing it later in the week.  I’m toying with the idea of taking the 
> opportunity to replace the condenser with one of the upgraded 3/4 pass ones, 
> too, but that looks like it might be a bit of an undertaking.  Has anyone 
> ever replaced a condenser on a W126?  I presume it requires pulling the 
> radiator, too.
> 
> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That would probably work, too, bt I’m doubtful I could see a leaking compressor 
seal since it would be covered by the clutch and pulley.

I can charge it enough to run for a little bit, drive it for a day or two, and 
start looking.

If it is the compressor I may just go with a major overhaul, that is, 
compressor, condenser, replace some lines, etc.  I’m not keen about replacing 
the expansion valve, though.  That thing is a real pig to get to.

Is there a good description of what it takes and how to do a system flush?  
I’ve never done one and I’m curious as to how difficult it is and if it’s 
worthwhile unless the compressor has cratered.


Dan


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> Pressurize it with propane, and spray soapy water all over everything, and 
> look for bubbles?
> 
> Fix leak, pump down, and then refill and enjoy?
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I changed one on the Regina 126.   I don't remember the details.  I 
don't remember pulling the radiator, but maybe I did.  Either way, not a 
hard job.  Make sure the line nuts break loose first.  Be sure to hold 
the static side with a wrench.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
October 22, 2016 at 12:03 PM
Of course, I mention how well my AC is working and I come home last 
night and guess what? No AC. Grrr.


I put the vacuum pump on it this morning and it pulled a vacuum within 
seconds. Got all the way down to the requisite 29.9” of Hg or 
whatever, but after 30 minutes it was only holding about 20-22” of Hg.


My killer leak sealer says if it will hold a vacuum for a minimum of 5 
minutes it should seal the system no problem. I’m wondering if it’s a 
compressor shaft seal, however. Of course no matter of leak sealer 
will fix that. I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is 
any other way of checking it?


I’ve ordered a new receiver-dryer in anticipation of pulling down the 
system and sealing it later in the week. I’m toying with the idea of 
taking the opportunity to replace the condenser with one of the 
upgraded 3/4 pass ones, too, but that looks like it might be a bit of 
an undertaking. Has anyone ever replaced a condenser on a W126? I 
presume it requires pulling the radiator, too.


Dan


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Pressurize it with propane, and spray soapy water all over everything, and
look for bubbles?

Fix leak, pump down, and then refill and enjoy?

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

OK, I’ve ordered a UV light and glasses.  I have a can of R134a with dye in it 
that is left over from a friend’s car - I could use that as I don’t expect it 
will take much to charge it and at least get some pressure in it to run.

It’s been sitting for 45 minutes now and it’s leaked down to about 10” Hg, so 
the leak doesn’t appear to be massive by any means.

Thanks, everyone.

Dan



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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yeah, I guess I could.  I hate putting that stuff in the system.  I would also 
have to charge it as well.

Probably my only real choice, I guess.

Dan


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 22, 2016 at 1:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> 
>> wrote:
>> I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is 
> 
> UV dye and a LED blacklight?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Dan inquires:

>I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is any other way of 
>checking it?

UV light, glasses, and dye.
The system probably has dye in it already from the
previous servicing of others.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultraviolet-Detector-Flashlight-Batteries-Cabinets/dp/B01ENBGHIK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1477156683&sr=8-4&keywords=uv+light+and+glasses

https://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-53517-UV-True-Detection-Flashlight/dp/B00AZJTE2G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477156683&sr=8-2&keywords=uv+light+and+glasses

Good for other things too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Is9fttQbTo

Rick


From: Mercedes  on behalf of Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes 
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 10:03 AM
To: Mercedes List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: [MBZ] AC Question

Of course, I mention how well my AC is working and I come home last night and 
guess what?  No AC.  Grrr.

I put the vacuum pump on it this morning and it pulled a vacuum within seconds. 
 Got all the way down to the requisite 29.9” of Hg or whatever, but after 30 
minutes it was only holding about 20-22” of Hg.

My killer leak sealer says if it will hold a vacuum for a minimum of 5 minutes 
it should seal the system no problem.  I’m wondering if it’s a compressor shaft 
seal, however.  Of course no matter of leak sealer will fix that.  I don’t have 
a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is any other way of checking it?

I’ve ordered a new receiver-dryer in anticipation of pulling down the system 
and sealing it later in the week.  I’m toying with the idea of taking the 
opportunity to replace the condenser with one of the upgraded 3/4 pass ones, 
too, but that looks like it might be a bit of an undertaking.  Has anyone ever 
replaced a condenser on a W126?  I presume it requires pulling the radiator, 
too.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 22, 2016 at 1:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>  I don’t have a sniffer, so I was wondering if there is 

UV dye and a LED blacklight?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This is a possibility I have to look into tonight. The front of this thing is 
almost impenetrable.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 5, 2014, at 10:25 AM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The front coils need to be cleaned?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>> Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold
>>> gauge set on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22
>>> psi. High side should be between 142 and 284.
>>> 
>>> Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.
>> 
>> At what RPM is the spec 18psi?
>> Did you test at idle or spec RPM?
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> 
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>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The front coils need to be cleaned?


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold
>> gauge set on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22
>> psi. High side should be between 142 and 284.
>>
>> Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.
>>
>
> At what RPM is the spec 18psi?
> Did you test at idle or spec RPM?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold gauge set 
on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22 psi. High 
side should be between 142 and 284.

Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.


At what RPM is the spec 18psi?
Did you test at idle or spec RPM?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Low side temps are dependent on ambient temps, to me 14-22psi seems really low. 
This is an R134 system right? My Jetta wants 30-45psi on the low side. I found 
an R134 pressure chart online which more or less matches what I remember.
http://acprocold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Temp-pressure-chart-33776F1.jpg


-Curt


 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Question
 

Good question. Yes it does and they're working.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does it have an aux fan that kicks in?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2014, at 8:18 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold gauge 
>> set on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22 psi. 
>> High side should be between 142 and 284.
>> 
>> Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.
>> 
>> I'm thinking the guy that worked on it a year or so ago may have overcharged 
>> it.
>> 
>> Does up this sound possible based on the readings? I get good duct temps at 
>> speed.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
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>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Good question. Yes it does and they're working.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:36 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does it have an aux fan that kicks in?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2014, at 8:18 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold gauge 
>> set on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22 psi. 
>> High side should be between 142 and 284.
>> 
>> Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.
>> 
>> I'm thinking the guy that worked on it a year or so ago may have overcharged 
>> it.
>> 
>> Does up this sound possible based on the readings? I get good duct temps at 
>> speed.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Does it have an aux fan that kicks in?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 4, 2014, at 8:18 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Wife's Mazda 6 AC gets warm while sitting at a stop. Put the manifold gauge 
> set on it tonight. Specs say the low side should be between 14 and 22 psi. 
> High side should be between 142 and 284.
> 
> Low side is in the 30s and the high side is in spec, around 220.
> 
> I'm thinking the guy that worked on it a year or so ago may have overcharged 
> it.
> 
> Does up this sound possible based on the readings? I get good duct temps at 
> speed.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:

I would not use the venturi/compressed air pumps... I have heard that they do 
not pull a deep vacuum.

If you want to avoid the HF gear, I think Robinair is the flagship brand name 
in this stuff.  You can find it used on Ebay, sometimes at local pawn shops 
though I've never found any when I've checked the ones close to me.



If you want something really cheap, use a refrigerator compressor and pull a 
vacuum on the inlet. They don't last long, but they are basically free and they 
pull a decent vacuum.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey]

If you want to avoid the HF gear, I think Robinair is the flagship 
brand name in this stuff.  You can find it used on Ebay, sometimes at 
local pawn shops though I've never found any when I've checked the 
ones close to me.


That's the usual.  I just cruised the shops gathering tools
for some time before I had enough in-hand to actually do work.
A year or so?  You can have it fast, good, or cheap, pick any
two!  (As they say.)

I usually go for cheap and good.  Sometimes just cheap...  :-)

The hoses on my Blue Point gauge set are Robinaire.  Very nice
feeling fittings, kick the crap out of the HF 134a set I've got.
(And it is an all-metal gauge set, somewhat older than what they're
currently pushing.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey]

What about gauges? Are they basically all the same or do you get what 
you pay for?


Fit and finish, and maybe durability.  I wouldn't worry too
much about it.

Recovery? I know the law. I know a little of the DIY tricks but would 
like to do it right. Is there such an animal as a real DIY recovery 
unit?


Only ones I've seen are used ones from real AC shops.  They turn
up on craigslist from time to time.

I don't worry about it, by the time my R12 units have lost enough
refrigerant to stop working, it's usually just about gone.  I am
still 'testing' my repairs to same, so I still have the test refrigerant
in them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Allan Streib]

I would not use the venturi/compressed air pumps... I have heard that they do 
not pull a deep vacuum.

If you want to avoid the HF gear, I think Robinair is the flagship brand name 
in this stuff.  You can find it used on Ebay, sometimes at local pawn shops 
though I've never found any when I've checked the ones close to me.

Allan


On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:51 -0700, "Dave Cavner"  wrote:
> Speaking of A/C - I think I now have enough W123 cars that need A/C
> repair to learn to do it myself.
> 
> If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and
> vacuum, what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start.
> Regarding the vacuum, I have an 80 gallon Champion compressor - are air
> -assisted Venturi pump vacs worthwhile or should I go electric? I won't
> say money is no object but I prefer to buy quality when it makes sense.
> 
> Thank you,
> Dave
> SoCal
> 
>

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley]

Dave Cavner wrote:


Is there such an animal as a real DIY recovery unit?


Do real commercial recovery units that somebody wants to get out of the shop now 
that they don't have a use for it count as real DIY units? (if you intend to put 
the stuff back in your car instead of selling it to a recycler, find out what a 
replacement dryer costs before buying the unit)



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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dave Cavner]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll focus on either a 'better brand' electric pump 
but will still swing by HF with coupon in hand to look at theirs.

I'm looking to stick with R12.

What about gauges? Are they basically all the same or do you get what you pay 
for? Brands to look for would be so helpful. I recognize brand names but not 
necessarily reputation. A/C just hasn't been on my radar until recently.

Recovery? I know the law. I know a little of the DIY tricks but would like to 
do it right. Is there such an animal as a real DIY recovery unit?

Anything else? 

Dave
SoCal
--
82 240D
82 300SD
84 300TD (Euro)
85 300TD


On Jun 28, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:

> Dave Cavner wrote:
>> Speaking of A/C - I think I now have enough W123 cars that need A/C repair 
>> to learn to do it myself.
>> If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and vacuum, 
>> what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start. Regarding the 
>> vacuum, I have an 80 gallon Champion compressor - are air -assisted Venturi 
>> pump vacs worthwhile or should I go electric? I won't say money is no object 
>> but I prefer to buy quality when it makes sense.
> 
> A few years ago, top brand (snap-on, robinaire, etc) R12 gauges were going 
> for $25 or less used, and decent reclaiming machines were going for $200 or 
> so. Now, like Selectric typewriters, the R12 stuff is becoming harder to 
> find, since most of it was disposed of 5-10 years ago. If you're looking to 
> convert to R134a, that's a different story.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey]

If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and 
vacuum, what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start.


Pawn shops?  I got a JB Industries vacuum pump and a Blue Point
(Snap-On's second line) R12 gauge set, I believe $150 for the pair.
Takes some looking sometimes!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley]

Dave Cavner wrote:

Speaking of A/C - I think I now have enough W123 cars that need A/C repair to 
learn to do it myself.

If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and vacuum, 
what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start. Regarding the 
vacuum, I have an 80 gallon Champion compressor - are air -assisted Venturi 
pump vacs worthwhile or should I go electric? I won't say money is no object 
but I prefer to buy quality when it makes sense.


A few years ago, top brand (snap-on, robinaire, etc) R12 gauges were going for 
$25 or less used, and decent reclaiming machines were going for $200 or so. Now, 
like Selectric typewriters, the R12 stuff is becoming harder to find, since most 
of it was disposed of 5-10 years ago. If you're looking to convert to R134a, 
that's a different story.


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Mitch Haley]

Peter Arnold wrote:

Go with an electric pump!  Vacumepumps driven by air are; 1) Slow, 2) 
inefficient & 3) very noisy.


I don't call those $10 venturi devices "pumps".

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Peter Arnold]

 On 6/27/2010 11:51 AM, Dave Cavner wrote:

Speaking of A/C - I think I now have enough W123 cars that need A/C repair to 
learn to do it myself.

If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and vacuum, 
what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start. Regarding the 
vacuum, I have an 80 gallon Champion compressor - are air -assisted Venturi 
pump vacs worthwhile or should I go electric? I won't say money is no object 
but I prefer to buy quality when it makes sense.

Thank you,
Dave
SoCal



On Jun 27, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:


If it leaks down in a month, likely there will be enough dye at the leak to see.

Since you are going to open it to fix the leak, I would suggest a new 
receiver/dryer or accumulator (depending on the style of AC, I don't know which 
one Chrysler used), fresh oil in the compressor, and replacing all the 0-rings. 
 If one is bad, the rest aren't far behind!

Check the condensate drain for traces of dye, it's possible you have a cracked 
evaporator.  I don't know if this is a common problem on a PT Cruiser, but they 
DO fail.  Ditto for the condenser -- they are subject to corrosion and road 
damage, being the most vulnerable part of the system and under the most heat 
and pressure stress.

Probably a good idea to clean out the space between rad and condenser, likely 
it's full of trash.

Check the hoses for leaks at the compression fittings, too, especially the high 
pressure and hot ones.  Check the fittings on the compressor as they can leak, 
notably the high pressure side as the o-rings erode there.  Ditto for 
compressor front seal, although that one may be hard to find.  Best to use a 
thermal conductivity or combustion type leak detector there if you have access 
to one, as the dye will be present only under the clutch and likely not very 
visible.

Good luck -- I've been hunting for a leak that size on my 300TE for about six 
years now.

Peter

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Go with an electric pump!  Vacumepumps driven by air are; 1) Slow, 2) 
inefficient & 3) very noisy.


--

--

Pete Arnold


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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Dave Cavner]

Speaking of A/C - I think I now have enough W123 cars that need A/C repair to 
learn to do it myself.

If I step away from Harbor Freight and get better quality gauges and vacuum, 
what brands/sources/retailers would be a good place to start. Regarding the 
vacuum, I have an 80 gallon Champion compressor - are air -assisted Venturi 
pump vacs worthwhile or should I go electric? I won't say money is no object 
but I prefer to buy quality when it makes sense.

Thank you,
Dave
SoCal



On Jun 27, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> If it leaks down in a month, likely there will be enough dye at the leak to 
> see.
> 
> Since you are going to open it to fix the leak, I would suggest a new 
> receiver/dryer or accumulator (depending on the style of AC, I don't know 
> which one Chrysler used), fresh oil in the compressor, and replacing all the 
> 0-rings.  If one is bad, the rest aren't far behind!
> 
> Check the condensate drain for traces of dye, it's possible you have a 
> cracked evaporator.  I don't know if this is a common problem on a PT 
> Cruiser, but they DO fail.  Ditto for the condenser -- they are subject to 
> corrosion and road damage, being the most vulnerable part of the system and 
> under the most heat and pressure stress.
> 
> Probably a good idea to clean out the space between rad and condenser, likely 
> it's full of trash.
> 
> Check the hoses for leaks at the compression fittings, too, especially the 
> high pressure and hot ones.  Check the fittings on the compressor as they can 
> leak, notably the high pressure side as the o-rings erode there.  Ditto for 
> compressor front seal, although that one may be hard to find.  Best to use a 
> thermal conductivity or combustion type leak detector there if you have 
> access to one, as the dye will be present only under the clutch and likely 
> not very visible.
> 
> Good luck -- I've been hunting for a leak that size on my 300TE for about six 
> years now.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Curt Raymond]

IIRC they sell 3 vacuum pumps, the air powered one and two electrics. I bought 
the air powered one to help fill cooling systems (never have used it) but its 
not supposed to be good enough for AC work.
The middle of the road one is also not supposed to be able to pull a good deep 
vacuum.
The "expensive" one (which I think is normally ~$200) is supposed to be pretty 
good.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:37:52 -0400
From: Allan Streib 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Question
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

"Peter T. Arnold"  writes:

> Will 'HArbor Freight' quality vacuum pump and gage set suffice?  Looks
> like about $200 there.

HF sells a compressed-air powered vacuum pump; you don't want that.  I
have their electric pump and it seems to pull a good vacuum.  The gauge
set I've already commented on... good enough for occasional DIY work,
but probably would not hold up to commercial use.  I imagine that goes
for their vacuum pumps to.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D


  
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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Allan Streib]

"Peter T. Arnold"  writes:

> Will 'HArbor Freight' quality vacuum pump and gage set suffice?  Looks
> like about $200 there.

HF sells a compressed-air powered vacuum pump; you don't want that.  I
have their electric pump and it seems to pull a good vacuum.  The gauge
set I've already commented on... good enough for occasional DIY work,
but probably would not hold up to commercial use.  I imagine that goes
for their vacuum pumps to.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Rich Thomas]

I got the gauge set and pump at HF 3wk ago for like $100 total with coupons.

--R

On 6/27/2010 10:23 AM, Peter T. Arnold wrote:
I'm very inexperienced in A/C work.  I will have to buy tools to do 
anything here.


My PT cruiser has a small 134 leak.  Recharge lasts about a month, 
they put die in it last time.


Best way to find the leak?  UV Light?

Next, If I find bad component and change it.

Do  buy an assortment of O'rings?

Will 'HArbor Freight' quality vacuum pump and gage set suffice?  Looks 
like about $200 there.

--
Pete Arnold

"You win some, You some and You wreck some!

-Dale Earnhardt-

Not sure I want to learn a new trade, this could be rewarding if I 
figure it out.




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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Peter Frederick]

If it leaks down in a month, likely there will be enough dye at the  
leak to see.


Since you are going to open it to fix the leak, I would suggest a new  
receiver/dryer or accumulator (depending on the style of AC, I don't  
know which one Chrysler used), fresh oil in the compressor, and  
replacing all the 0-rings.  If one is bad, the rest aren't far behind!


Check the condensate drain for traces of dye, it's possible you have  
a cracked evaporator.  I don't know if this is a common problem on a  
PT Cruiser, but they DO fail.  Ditto for the condenser -- they are  
subject to corrosion and road damage, being the most vulnerable part  
of the system and under the most heat and pressure stress.


Probably a good idea to clean out the space between rad and  
condenser, likely it's full of trash.


Check the hoses for leaks at the compression fittings, too,  
especially the high pressure and hot ones.  Check the fittings on the  
compressor as they can leak, notably the high pressure side as the o- 
rings erode there.  Ditto for compressor front seal, although that  
one may be hard to find.  Best to use a thermal conductivity or  
combustion type leak detector there if you have access to one, as the  
dye will be present only under the clutch and likely not very visible.


Good luck -- I've been hunting for a leak that size on my 300TE for  
about six years now.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] AC Question

[Jim Cathey]

Best way to find the leak?  UV Light?


That will exploit the dye that was already used, it sounds
good.  But a bottle of child's bubble solution is also useful,
just paint it on all joints and such and look for bubbles.
A 1-month leak should be findable that way.


Do I buy an assortment of O-rings?


That is easiest, and possibly even the cheapest.

Will 'HArbor Freight' quality vacuum pump and gage set suffice?  Looks 
like about $200 there.


Probably good enough.  I think I got used name-brand US stuff
for about $150 at pawn shops, but it took some gathering.  Not
usually something you can throw together in a weekend!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 6/29/07, Robert & Tara Ludwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you use one of those little can with attached low side gauge
> kits,they will work ok, but they must be made in Minnasota because they
> usually have the green zone on the gauge a bit on the low side for real
> hot places. If it get's real hot out while you are checking/charging
> 45-55 lb on the low side is quite normal .Most of those little gauges
> show the green at 35-45 and if it's 95 +deg f out, 35-45 will not be
> enough of a charge, it will be a can or so low.

Liability concern, maybe?  They don't want amateurs overcharging?

Alex Chamberlain

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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Robert & Tara Ludwick]

If you use one of those little can with attached low side gauge 
kits,they will work ok, but they must be made in Minnasota because they 
usually have the green zone on the gauge a bit on the low side for real 
hot places. If it get's real hot out while you are checking/charging 
45-55 lb on the low side is quite normal .Most of those little gauges 
show the green at 35-45 and if it's 95 +deg f out, 35-45 will not be 
enough of a charge, it will be a can or so low.

-Robert


Curt Raymond wrote:
> Great!
> Right now it still cools just not as well as it used to so I'm thinking a can 
> added might do the trick.
>
> Thanks
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:50:14 -0700
> From: "Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC question
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Message-ID:
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 6/29/07, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Fred's AC question makes me think of my '96 Dodge which has never had
>> 
>  any AC work done to it. It seems like its not cooling so well anymore,
>  whats the wisdom on this? There are kits that come with a gauge,
>  presumeably they come with instructions. Presumably this kind of kit is
>  pretty stupid proof? Anybody got a link that might be helpful?
>   
>
> Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is that
> R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
> mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
> anything else.   They are as idiotproof as anything involving
> pressurized explosive stuff can be!  R134a systems have different
> sized fittings for the high and low pressure side, so there is little
> danger of hooking up the can to the wrong side.  You just screw the
> attached fitting to the low side on the car, start the engine, turn
> the A/C on, hold the can upside down, press the valve on the can, and
> wait for the gauge provided to read in the green zone.
>
> If the system cools nicely after that, everything's good.  If
> performance declines rapidly, you have a leak somewhere.  If it
> doesn't cool at all, something is wrong other than the charge (maybe
> an electrical issue keeping the compressor from turning on when it
> should, or a stuck heater valve).
>
> Alex Chamberlain
> '87 300D Turbo
> '93 Isuzu Trooper
> '86 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
>
>
> -
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
>   


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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 6/29/07, Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:05:46 -0700 "Alex Chamberlain"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Or (b) there is a significant (i.e. ectogenic) leak in the system.
>
>
> ec·tog·e·nous
>
> 1. Able to live and develop outside a host, as certain pathogenic
>microorganisms do.
>
> 2. Originating or produced from outside an organism, tissue, or cell;
>exogenous.
>
>
> Seems like the wrong word to me...


That's what I meant.  A significant leak would probably be one of
origin outside the design, i.e. not caused by the inherent leakiness
of R134a-using A/C systems.

Alex Chamberlain

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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Craig McCluskey]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:05:46 -0700 "Alex Chamberlain"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Or (b) there is a significant (i.e. ectogenic) leak in the system.


ec·tog·e·nous

1. Able to live and develop outside a host, as certain pathogenic
   microorganisms do. 

2. Originating or produced from outside an organism, tissue, or cell;
   exogenous.


Seems like the wrong word to me...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Curt Raymond]

I'd agree if the AC in my truck didn't work at all (like on my 190D) but since 
it works somewhat I'm thinking its just a bit low.
I've got 3 days off next week so I'll try 'er out!

-Curt

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:03:44 -0400
From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC question
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

"Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is
> that R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
> mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
> anything else.

I'v read that a "proper" A/C recharge requires pulling a vacuum,
removing/reclaiming all the refrigerant and any air, moisture
etc. that has worked into the system, and then charging with the
specified amount of refrigerant.  So clearly that is NOT happening
when you just "add a can" from McParts, but what I don't know is how
beneficial/necessary the full vacuum/recharge *really* is.

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

 
-
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and 
always stay connected to friends.
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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Curt Raymond]

Great!
Right now it still cools just not as well as it used to so I'm thinking a can 
added might do the trick.

Thanks

-Curt

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:50:14 -0700
From: "Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC question
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 6/29/07, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fred's AC question makes me think of my '96 Dodge which has never had
 any AC work done to it. It seems like its not cooling so well anymore,
 whats the wisdom on this? There are kits that come with a gauge,
 presumeably they come with instructions. Presumably this kind of kit is
 pretty stupid proof? Anybody got a link that might be helpful?
>

Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is that
R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
anything else.   They are as idiotproof as anything involving
pressurized explosive stuff can be!  R134a systems have different
sized fittings for the high and low pressure side, so there is little
danger of hooking up the can to the wrong side.  You just screw the
attached fitting to the low side on the car, start the engine, turn
the A/C on, hold the can upside down, press the valve on the can, and
wait for the gauge provided to read in the green zone.

If the system cools nicely after that, everything's good.  If
performance declines rapidly, you have a leak somewhere.  If it
doesn't cool at all, something is wrong other than the charge (maybe
an electrical issue keeping the compressor from turning on when it
should, or a stuck heater valve).

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo
'93 Isuzu Trooper
'86 Lincoln Mark VII LSC

   
-
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 6/29/07, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is
> > that R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
> > mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
> > anything else.
>
> I'v read that a "proper" A/C recharge requires pulling a vacuum,
> removing/reclaiming all the refrigerant and any air, moisture
> etc. that has worked into the system, and then charging with the
> specified amount of refrigerant.  So clearly that is NOT happening
> when you just "add a can" from McParts,

True. I should expand on my reasoning:  If the A/C is not cooling well
because it's low on refrigerant, either (a) it's just leaked out over
time from the leaks inherent in the system (because no 134a system is
perfectly sealed---the new molecule is a much more talented escape
artist than the old R12 molecule, and so the systems tend to leak down
over time even when performing as designed).  In this case, the
McParts can will fix the problem.

Or (b) there is a significant (i.e. ectogenic) leak in the system.
The leak will become apparent quickly after cooling performance begins
to suffer again.  So the McParts can has served as a diagnostic aid.

In other words, IMHO the quick fix won't hurt, and may very well help.

> but what I don't know is how
> beneficial/necessary the full vacuum/recharge *really* is.
>

In case (b), it is both beneficial and necessary.   Further charging
should not be done without first pulling a vacuum at the very least
and probably also replacing the receiver/dryer and condenser (since on
134 systems the latter is usually a parallel-flow type which tends to
trap contamination and is not flushable).

Alex Chamberlain

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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Allan Streib]

"Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is
> that R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
> mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
> anything else.

I'v read that a "proper" A/C recharge requires pulling a vacuum,
removing/reclaiming all the refrigerant and any air, moisture
etc. that has worked into the system, and then charging with the
specified amount of refrigerant.  So clearly that is NOT happening
when you just "add a can" from McParts, but what I don't know is how
beneficial/necessary the full vacuum/recharge *really* is.

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] AC question

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 6/29/07, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fred's AC question makes me think of my '96 Dodge which has never had any AC 
> work done to it. It seems like its not cooling so well anymore, whats the 
> wisdom on this? There are kits that come with a gauge, presumeably they come 
> with instructions. Presumably this kind of kit is pretty stupid proof? 
> Anybody got a link that might be helpful?
>

Yup, my thinking as regards diagnosis of post-'96 A/C systems is that
R134a is so cheap that you might as well try the
mixed-oil-and-refrigerant-with-a-gauge can at McParts before you do
anything else.   They are as idiotproof as anything involving
pressurized explosive stuff can be!  R134a systems have different
sized fittings for the high and low pressure side, so there is little
danger of hooking up the can to the wrong side.  You just screw the
attached fitting to the low side on the car, start the engine, turn
the A/C on, hold the can upside down, press the valve on the can, and
wait for the gauge provided to read in the green zone.

If the system cools nicely after that, everything's good.  If
performance declines rapidly, you have a leak somewhere.  If it
doesn't cool at all, something is wrong other than the charge (maybe
an electrical issue keeping the compressor from turning on when it
should, or a stuck heater valve).

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo
'93 Isuzu Trooper
'86 Lincoln Mark VII LSC

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