Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun day!

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 LOL, I hadn't thought off that. It needs a remote finder... ;)
-Curt

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 1:58:55 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Umm, make sure that you don't put it down in the weeds, you might not find
it again! Otherwise, looks like anice firearm.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 4:19 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My Browning Silver arrived today. Overall I'm pretty pleased with the
> process, I did make one mistake in that I sent a certified check but didn't
> send it certified mail so I didn't know when it arrived. The check getting
> to the seller took way longer than I expected. The actual shipping from the
> seller was next day.
> Here it is: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XMP68fVUHXTTfMrx8
> Close up on the working bit: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2ianvStNh4GLh2LE8
> A couple thoughts: The stock feels cheaper than I'd expected, its clearly
> hollow plastic. I wanted that because this will be a working gun but I
> guess I wasn't prepared for it. The plastic on the fore end feels better
> somehow. The light plastic stock moves the balance of the gun forward which
> is nice.
> The fit is nearly perfect for me, I'd maybe like a slightly longer stock
> but once I have bulky clothes on for hunting I probably won't mind. The
> stock drops just right for my face. This is something I was a little
> concerned about, its harder to modify a plastic stock. I hope this means
> I'll shoot well with it.
> Last week I went to trap on Friday evening. I hadn't been before, its a
> very small group, we had just 3 shooters. I'm going to try to get Angie to
> go with me this week. I'm going go to try to make sporting clays on Sunday
> too. Now that I've got the gun I need to practice with it before the geese
> arrive...
> -Curt
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun day!

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Umm, make sure that you don't put it down in the weeds, you might not find
it again! Otherwise, looks like anice firearm.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 4:19 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My Browning Silver arrived today. Overall I'm pretty pleased with the
> process, I did make one mistake in that I sent a certified check but didn't
> send it certified mail so I didn't know when it arrived. The check getting
> to the seller took way longer than I expected. The actual shipping from the
> seller was next day.
> Here it is: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XMP68fVUHXTTfMrx8
> Close up on the working bit: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2ianvStNh4GLh2LE8
> A couple thoughts: The stock feels cheaper than I'd expected, its clearly
> hollow plastic. I wanted that because this will be a working gun but I
> guess I wasn't prepared for it. The plastic on the fore end feels better
> somehow. The light plastic stock moves the balance of the gun forward which
> is nice.
> The fit is nearly perfect for me, I'd maybe like a slightly longer stock
> but once I have bulky clothes on for hunting I probably won't mind. The
> stock drops just right for my face. This is something I was a little
> concerned about, its harder to modify a plastic stock. I hope this means
> I'll shoot well with it.
> Last week I went to trap on Friday evening. I hadn't been before, its a
> very small group, we had just 3 shooters. I'm going to try to get Angie to
> go with me this week. I'm going go to try to make sporting clays on Sunday
> too. Now that I've got the gun I need to practice with it before the geese
> arrive...
> -Curt
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It definitely came from the primer end (the wet powder gun is an inline not a 
sidelock) as the powder closest to the bullet was dry while the powder closest 
to the primer was wet. I made a blog entry on it: 
http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/
which was interestingly one of my most controversial blog posts when I put it 
on Facebook. I got a lot of guys who claimed I didn't know what I was doing, 
none of them actually have a CVA Buckhorn though. I've got an idea that 
somebody could make a rubber plug to go over the breech plug in the gun to seal 
the primer in better but in the end its just a cheap plastic stocked gun that I 
never really loved. The TC Renegade I bought to replace it has classic lines, 
nice wood and a larger diameter bore for bigger bullets and thus more powder, I 
just like it better. Typical story, the Renegade is what I should have gotten 
in the first place...

-Curt






On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 3:34:42 PM EST, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





There are 3 companies who sell side locks from traditional patterns.  
You can always build one.

Regarding the wet powder, I think you said you did use one of the finger 
cots to cover the end of the barrel.  When I worked with a bunch of 
filipinos, I'd tease them about the finger cots being Filipino rubbers.  
Do you think the powder got wet from the nipple end of the barrel?

> Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> March 4, 2018 at 12:56 PM

> There were several of the Hawkens at the show in the $300-$500 range. For a 
> hunting gun I think the Renegade is as good a gun or better since its plain 
> Jane aspect won't be damaged in the field.
> Its sad that TC doesn't make traditional rifles anymore but I guess the 
> market has gone mostly in-line.
> -Curt
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Hi Larry,

CVA is an interesting company, they rode the black powder revival of the late 
'70s producing a number of different variants. They went bankrupt in the late 
'90s and reformed under the name Black Powder Industries (BPI) which is owned 
by Dakar of Spain who made a lot of the CVA guns.

Unfortunately they're kind of low end, in my shopping I was looking 
specifically for a TC because of their better reputation. I would have taken a 
CVA if I'd found one but I'd have wanted it in the $1500-$200 range and since I 
could get a TC for that price...
I looked around Gun Broker and it looks like the CVA Hawkens (Mountain Rifle is 
one name they used) are running $200-$400. I've got an over and under .50 
caliber that I overpaid for at $450.

As for shooting your gun you can make it kick as much as you want ;) 
The nice thing about a muzzle loader is that since you're hand loading you can 
tailor each load. BP is usually measured volumetricly, I'd start with 40 grains 
(which is really 40 grains equivalent) and work up from there if required. That 
should be a nice light load which ought to be good to about 50 yards with a 
round ball. Track of the Wolf can set you up with measures, balls and patches 
if you don't already have them.

One thing I do prefer from CVA is their powder flask as I've written about: 
http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/powder-flasks.html although I see 
the Amazon link is now re-labled BPI...

-Curt






On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 3:12:16 PM EST, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





After my wife rec'd her Nursing License and started work around 1991 the 
1st thing she bought (for me) was a Hawken 50 Cal by Conn Valley.  It 
was a gun I always wanted and I guess I talked about it a lot.  Anyway, 
I really like it but have never fired it.  I suspect it works as it 
should though.  I need  to take it to the range one of these days to see 
how it shoots ;-)  Since it's a Black Powder gun I am hoping the recoil 
is mild - had to stop shooting my M-1 Garand because of the shock it 
gave my shoulder.

I should probably trim my collection a bit.  Based on the previous post 
I guess it's safe to assume the value of a 50 Hawken by CV is in the 
$300-$500 range?

LarryT

300D

06 E350


On 03/04/2018 1:51 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Correct. In the case of the Kentucky rifles (and many other guns for that 
> matter) the stock included the forearm and continued to the end (or nearly 
> the end) of the barrel. In the case of the Hawken the forearm stops part way 
> down the barrel.
> I was also wrong about the dates for the Hawken brothers, they started shop 
> around 1830.
> -Curt
>  
>
>      On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 7:51:12 AM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>  
>  Nice!  Gun terms:  I thought the stock touched your shoulder and the forearm 
>runs along the barrel, so this rifle has a half-stock forearm?

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

There are 3 companies who sell side locks from traditional patterns.  
You can always build one.


Regarding the wet powder, I think you said you did use one of the finger 
cots to cover the end of the barrel.  When I worked with a bunch of 
filipinos, I'd tease them about the finger cots being Filipino rubbers.  
Do you think the powder got wet from the nipple end of the barrel?



Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
March 4, 2018 at 12:56 PM
There were several of the Hawkens at the show in the $300-$500 range. For a 
hunting gun I think the Renegade is as good a gun or better since its plain 
Jane aspect won't be damaged in the field.
Its sad that TC doesn't make traditional rifles anymore but I guess the market 
has gone mostly in-line.
-Curt




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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

After my wife rec'd her Nursing License and started work around 1991 the 
1st thing she bought (for me) was a Hawken 50 Cal by Conn Valley.  It 
was a gun I always wanted and I guess I talked about it a lot.  Anyway, 
I really like it but have never fired it.  I suspect it works as it 
should though.  I need  to take it to the range one of these days to see 
how it shoots ;-)  Since it's a Black Powder gun I am hoping the recoil 
is mild - had to stop shooting my M-1 Garand because of the shock it 
gave my shoulder.


I should probably trim my collection a bit.  Based on the previous post 
I guess it's safe to assume the value of a 50 Hawken by CV is in the 
$300-$500 range?


LarryT

300D

06 E350


On 03/04/2018 1:51 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Correct. In the case of the Kentucky rifles (and many other guns for that 
matter) the stock included the forearm and continued to the end (or nearly the 
end) of the barrel. In the case of the Hawken the forearm stops part way down 
the barrel.
I was also wrong about the dates for the Hawken brothers, they started shop 
around 1830.
-Curt
  


 On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 7:51:12 AM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:
  
  Nice!  Gun terms:  I thought the stock touched your shoulder and the forearm runs along the barrel, so this rifle has a half-stock forearm?


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

There were several of the Hawkens at the show in the $300-$500 range. For a 
hunting gun I think the Renegade is as good a gun or better since its plain 
Jane aspect won't be damaged in the field.
Its sad that TC doesn't make traditional rifles anymore but I guess the market 
has gone mostly in-line.
-Curt
 

On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 1:44:02 PM EST, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:  
 
 Nice!

That sounds like a very good price for that T/C.

I have the very same in the Hawken model I built from a kit. It's a beautiful 
rifle, and the lockwork is of excellent materials and engineering. T/C makes 
some very good stuff.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond 
via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 6:39 PM
To: Mercedes List
Cc: Curt Raymond
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

Blast! Forgot to make the post plain text, for some reason the list and Yahoo 
don't get along unless I do.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpg







On Saturday, March 3, 2018, 9:22:50 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: 





Fix your link - it’s got a run on.

Sounds cool.

-D


> On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Last weekend we went to "The Ancient Ones of Maine" gun show. Its mostly 
> focused on primitive or at least old timey guns. I had a bad time with my 
> modern in-line muzzle loader last fall during hunting season. Any snow or 
> rain that got anywhere near it would wet the powder and wet powder doesn't 
> work. I decided I'd invest in an old timey side-lock gun, my 16ga shotgun is 
> a side lock and I carried it through a rainy turkey season last year with no 
> wet powder so apparently I know how to make side lock guns stay dry.
> There were a bunch of good candidates at the show, I went in wanting a 54 
> caliber or larger. Theres no particular reason for that, the .45s I already 
> have would be adequate but go big or go home right?
> Finally found this: 
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpgits a Thompson 
> Center Renegade, I paid $165. I don't think its been shot much, theres very 
> little powder staining on the stock and the bore is perfect. The Renegade is 
> in the half stock style popularized by the Hawken brothers in the 1820s or so 
> and commonly referred to with their name. TC made two similar models, the 
> Hawken and Renegade, the latter being more plain with iron hardware, little 
> engraving and no patch box.
> I really like it, the stock is fat and fits me well, it points good and has 
> good sights. I haven't shot it yet but I also scored several hundred 
> maxi-ball type bullets. This gun has a 1:48 twist rate which is fast enough 
> to stabilize a conical bullet but will still handle a round ball reasonably 
> well. The big bullets should do a number on deer and it we get a chance to 
> hunt moose again this would be my gun of choice.
> -Curt

> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Correct. In the case of the Kentucky rifles (and many other guns for that 
matter) the stock included the forearm and continued to the end (or nearly the 
end) of the barrel. In the case of the Hawken the forearm stops part way down 
the barrel.
I was also wrong about the dates for the Hawken brothers, they started shop 
around 1830.
-Curt
 

On Sunday, March 4, 2018, 7:51:12 AM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nice!  Gun terms:  I thought the stock touched your shoulder and the forearm 
runs along the barrel, so this rifle has a half-stock forearm?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Nice!

That sounds like a very good price for that T/C.

I have the very same in the Hawken model I built from a kit. It's a beautiful 
rifle, and the lockwork is of excellent materials and engineering. T/C makes 
some very good stuff.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond 
via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 6:39 PM
To: Mercedes List
Cc: Curt Raymond
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

Blast! Forgot to make the post plain text, for some reason the list and Yahoo 
don't get along unless I do.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpg







On Saturday, March 3, 2018, 9:22:50 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: 





Fix your link - it’s got a run on.

Sounds cool.

-D


> On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Last weekend we went to "The Ancient Ones of Maine" gun show. Its mostly 
> focused on primitive or at least old timey guns. I had a bad time with my 
> modern in-line muzzle loader last fall during hunting season. Any snow or 
> rain that got anywhere near it would wet the powder and wet powder doesn't 
> work. I decided I'd invest in an old timey side-lock gun, my 16ga shotgun is 
> a side lock and I carried it through a rainy turkey season last year with no 
> wet powder so apparently I know how to make side lock guns stay dry.
> There were a bunch of good candidates at the show, I went in wanting a 54 
> caliber or larger. Theres no particular reason for that, the .45s I already 
> have would be adequate but go big or go home right?
> Finally found this: 
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpgits a Thompson 
> Center Renegade, I paid $165. I don't think its been shot much, theres very 
> little powder staining on the stock and the bore is perfect. The Renegade is 
> in the half stock style popularized by the Hawken brothers in the 1820s or so 
> and commonly referred to with their name. TC made two similar models, the 
> Hawken and Renegade, the latter being more plain with iron hardware, little 
> engraving and no patch box.
> I really like it, the stock is fat and fits me well, it points good and has 
> good sights. I haven't shot it yet but I also scored several hundred 
> maxi-ball type bullets. This gun has a 1:48 twist rate which is fast enough 
> to stabilize a conical bullet but will still handle a round ball reasonably 
> well. The big bullets should do a number on deer and it we get a chance to 
> hunt moose again this would be my gun of choice.
> -Curt

> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Very nice rifle!

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Last weekend we went to "The Ancient Ones of Maine" gun show. Its mostly
> focused on primitive or at least old timey guns. I had a bad time with my
> modern in-line muzzle loader last fall during hunting season. Any snow or
> rain that got anywhere near it would wet the powder and wet powder doesn't
> work. I decided I'd invest in an old timey side-lock gun, my 16ga shotgun
> is a side lock and I carried it through a rainy turkey season last year
> with no wet powder so apparently I know how to make side lock guns stay dry.
> There were a bunch of good candidates at the show, I went in wanting a 54
> caliber or larger. Theres no particular reason for that, the .45s I already
> have would be adequate but go big or go home right?
> Finally found this: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/
> 4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpgits a Thompson Center Renegade, I paid
> $165. I don't think its been shot much, theres very little powder staining
> on the stock and the bore is perfect. The Renegade is in the half stock
> style popularized by the Hawken brothers in the 1820s or so and commonly
> referred to with their name. TC made two similar models, the Hawken and
> Renegade, the latter being more plain with iron hardware, little engraving
> and no patch box.
> I really like it, the stock is fat and fits me well, it points good and
> has good sights. I haven't shot it yet but I also scored several hundred
> maxi-ball type bullets. This gun has a 1:48 twist rate which is fast enough
> to stabilize a conical bullet but will still handle a round ball reasonably
> well. The big bullets should do a number on deer and it we get a chance to
> hunt moose again this would be my gun of choice.
> -Curt
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Nice!  Gun terms:  I thought the stock touched your shoulder and the forearm 
runs along the barrel, so this rifle has a half-stock forearm?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Blast! Forgot to make the post plain text, for some reason the list and Yahoo 
don't get along unless I do.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpg







On Saturday, March 3, 2018, 9:22:50 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





Fix your link - it’s got a run on.

Sounds cool.

-D


> On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Last weekend we went to "The Ancient Ones of Maine" gun show. Its mostly 
> focused on primitive or at least old timey guns. I had a bad time with my 
> modern in-line muzzle loader last fall during hunting season. Any snow or 
> rain that got anywhere near it would wet the powder and wet powder doesn't 
> work. I decided I'd invest in an old timey side-lock gun, my 16ga shotgun is 
> a side lock and I carried it through a rainy turkey season last year with no 
> wet powder so apparently I know how to make side lock guns stay dry.
> There were a bunch of good candidates at the show, I went in wanting a 54 
> caliber or larger. Theres no particular reason for that, the .45s I already 
> have would be adequate but go big or go home right?
> Finally found this: 
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpgits a Thompson 
> Center Renegade, I paid $165. I don't think its been shot much, theres very 
> little powder staining on the stock and the bore is perfect. The Renegade is 
> in the half stock style popularized by the Hawken brothers in the 1820s or so 
> and commonly referred to with their name. TC made two similar models, the 
> Hawken and Renegade, the latter being more plain with iron hardware, little 
> engraving and no patch box.
> I really like it, the stock is fat and fits me well, it points good and has 
> good sights. I haven't shot it yet but I also scored several hundred 
> maxi-ball type bullets. This gun has a 1:48 twist rate which is fast enough 
> to stabilize a conical bullet but will still handle a round ball reasonably 
> well. The big bullets should do a number on deer and it we get a chance to 
> hunt moose again this would be my gun of choice.
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Fix your link - it’s got a run on.

Sounds cool.

-D


> On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Last weekend we went to "The Ancient Ones of Maine" gun show. Its mostly 
> focused on primitive or at least old timey guns. I had a bad time with my 
> modern in-line muzzle loader last fall during hunting season. Any snow or 
> rain that got anywhere near it would wet the powder and wet powder doesn't 
> work. I decided I'd invest in an old timey side-lock gun, my 16ga shotgun is 
> a side lock and I carried it through a rainy turkey season last year with no 
> wet powder so apparently I know how to make side lock guns stay dry.
> There were a bunch of good candidates at the show, I went in wanting a 54 
> caliber or larger. Theres no particular reason for that, the .45s I already 
> have would be adequate but go big or go home right?
> Finally found this: 
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4713/39622927395_a2e72a0d88_b.jpgits a Thompson 
> Center Renegade, I paid $165. I don't think its been shot much, theres very 
> little powder staining on the stock and the bore is perfect. The Renegade is 
> in the half stock style popularized by the Hawken brothers in the 1820s or so 
> and commonly referred to with their name. TC made two similar models, the 
> Hawken and Renegade, the latter being more plain with iron hardware, little 
> engraving and no patch box.
> I really like it, the stock is fat and fits me well, it points good and has 
> good sights. I haven't shot it yet but I also scored several hundred 
> maxi-ball type bullets. This gun has a 1:48 twist rate which is fast enough 
> to stabilize a conical bullet but will still handle a round ball reasonably 
> well. The big bullets should do a number on deer and it we get a chance to 
> hunt moose again this would be my gun of choice.
> -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I can't speak to the psychological aspects but you may want to check out USCCA 
if your concerns are legal and financial:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/


> -Original Message-
> From:  Larry Turner via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:08 PM
> 
> that's a great way to think about it.  I carry concealed and know I'd pull the
> trigger if I or my family were threatened - but I'm not sure how I'd handle 
> the
> aftermath.
> 
> Larry
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

There are some pistol safes that provide pretty-fast to access and a degree
of security, like SpeedVault:
https://www.amazon.com/s?field-keywords=SpeedVault

On body carry is best but maybe uncomfortable at home.  The SpeedVault (I
prefer the pushbutton over fingerprint version) holds a full size pistol and
allows fast access, if properly sited.  A determined kid could eventually
gain access but I have no children in the house.

> On 30/01/2017 5:52 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> ... I have a gun within reach loaded and ready to go all over the house.
...
> A locked up gun does no good. ...
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

  unless mfrs. provide technology for fingerprint ID on the trigger.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 30/01/2017 5:52 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach
>> loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he
>> will die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.
>>
>>
> better hope none of the family ever gets really angry with you
>
> RB
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/01/2017 5:52 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach 
loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he will 
die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.



better hope none of the family ever gets really angry with you

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 30, 2017 at 7:28 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:

> I think the NRA is OK as an advocacy organization even separated from the 
> political aspect of it.

The NRA was founded in 1871 by military officers, and the chartered purpose was 
to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis" in order to 
prepare the draftee base to defend the country. General Burnside was the first 
President. 

The NRA started specifically promoting youth shooting clubs, high school and 
college shooting teams, etc in 1903. 

There are really two NRAs: The main body, financed by 5 million dues paying 
members, sanctions shooting competitions, certifies firearms instructors, 
provides liability insurance for affiliated shooting clubs, etc. 

Until Harlon Carter became Executive Vice President in 1977 the NRA was 
nonpolitical, but they did notably support the two major federal gun laws, 
National Firearms Act of 1934 and Gun Control Act of 1968. (NRA leadership's 
support of the GCA resulted in a minor member rebellion in the 1970s, resulting 
in Carter taking the helm as Executive Vice President at the 1977 annual 
meeting after a bunch of employees who supported Carter were fired in 1976.)

The NRA-ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is the political arm, financed 
by donations. This is the "Gun Lobby" you hear about in the press, people like 
me donating our personal funds to the lobbying arm of the NRA. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

He took the entirely wrong track with it "Well Scarborough Club will let me do 
it." It turns out that yes Scarborough does have a range for that but its only 
in use like 4 times a year because it requires a range safety officer that the 
shooters pay for. They also don't run with a loaded gun, they shoot 5 shots, 
drop the magazine, run and then install a new magazine.
Dude has become much more reasonable now...
-Curt

  From: Max Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
When I was being trained to go to the sandbox, one of the "capstone" events 
(state-side, there was more training "over there") was shooting and moving from 
station to station, shooting single hand (strong hand), two handed, and then 
single hand (weak hand, left hand in my case) while walking, running, or 
crawling between stations, reloading at least once.  I did this with a 9mm 
pistol, about half the students had M-16 rifles.  This was in full body armor, 
which weighed about seventy pounds, in July, in South Carolina.  Before we 
could start the course, we did some jumping jacks, wearing the armor, carrying 
the weapon(s) and ammo, to "warm up".

Anyway, my point is that while having all this "fun" I was really focusing hard 
to (1) not shoot myself or (2) not shoot anybody else, like the other students 
or the instructors.  I thought these instructors were either pretty brave or 
really stupid, as they didn't wear any body armor, but ran alongside each 
student to tell them what to do (for instance "kneeling position, strong hand, 
three shots" or "crawl to next barrier ahead to your left") while we novices 
with high powered rifles and pistols went through this.  

Remaining still and shooting from a firing line is one thing.  Moving and 
shooting is a much much more difficult thing to do safely and well.  Your range 
did well to decline, if they had not trained or observed this fellow to make 
sure he wasn't a hazard to himself or others.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 30, 2017 6:42:30 PM EST, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>They had one guy that was pissed because they wouldn't let him do an
>action shoot that involved running from station to station with a
>loaded AR. He couldn't see why they had a problem with it.
>-Curt
>

   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Come join the muzzleloading world. Patched round balls, even if you have to buy 
the balls are quite economical to shoot. If you can find flint in the wild you 
can cut costs even further.
-Curt

  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Larry Turner <l02tur...@comcast.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
Yeah, there are those types at all ranges.  Our range requires people 
shoot at targets and all rounds must hit the berm or risk expulsion. We 
had an incident a couple of years ago when a ricochet hit someone or 
almost hit someone - I don't know the details for sure - they keep those 
things quiet -  it must have really scared management (we're a 
conservation club) when insurance came out and did an investigation - if 
insurance goes up too much we will cease to be.

re the max shooters We have some who must spend a fortune on ammo - they 
come out with either a rifle or pistol with the largest magazine 
possible and then they proceed to pull the trigger as fast as possible.  
I've never seen the attraction.  I enjoy my AR but I  have a 22LR 
conversion to make things more economical when shooting.  But here 
lately even 22LR's are getting too expensive to enjoy.  And shooting 
223's is just plain outrageous!

LarryT

91 300D















































































On 01/30/2017 6:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Sounds like a good range... I'm actually a member of a range here but haven't 
> been over yet. I'm in the process of applying for concealed carry which is 
> essentially a pistol permit in MA, and I read that being a member of a range 
> can help your chances. I wanted to find a place to shoot anyway...
> Don't get me wrong, the AR is a great gun, its the "tacticool" guys that 
> drive me crazy. There are some at the range my dad goes to that don't even 
> put up targets, just blaze away into the dirt...
> They had one guy that was pissed because they wouldn't let him do an action 
> shoot that involved running from station to station with a loaded AR. He 
> couldn't see why they had a problem with it.
> -Curt
>
>        From: Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Larry Turner <l02tur...@comcast.net>
>  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:31 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
>    
> you're not alone - at least at my range where traditionalist like you
> would be in the majority.  Only one of my rifles is a "Black gun" (AR15)
> and all the others are wood and steel including my muzzleloader.
>
> I don't think you're weird at all.
>
> LarryT
>
>
> On 01/30/2017 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>> No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any 
>> world I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made 
>> primarily of plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be 
>> metal, the non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a 
>> cheap gun.
>> My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. 
>> I've got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
>> -Curt
>>
>    
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[clay via Mercedes]

This boy must be another scout

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkFyvmnWggE



clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei

retired models-
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








> On Jan 30, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Atta boy Kaleb!! Living life the Boy Scout way - always prepared.  ;-)
> 
> Larry
> 
>  

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

When I was being trained to go to the sandbox, one of the "capstone" events 
(state-side, there was more training "over there") was shooting and moving from 
station to station, shooting single hand (strong hand), two handed, and then 
single hand (weak hand, left hand in my case) while walking, running, or 
crawling between stations, reloading at least once.   I did this with a 9mm 
pistol, about half the students had M-16 rifles.  This was in full body armor, 
which weighed about seventy pounds, in July, in South Carolina.  Before we 
could start the course, we did some jumping jacks, wearing the armor, carrying 
the weapon(s) and ammo, to "warm up".

Anyway, my point is that while having all this "fun" I was really focusing hard 
to (1) not shoot myself or (2) not shoot anybody else, like the other students 
or the instructors.  I thought these instructors were either pretty brave or 
really stupid, as they didn't wear any body armor, but ran alongside each 
student to tell them what to do (for instance "kneeling position, strong hand, 
three shots" or "crawl to next barrier ahead to your left") while we novices 
with high powered rifles and pistols went through this.  

Remaining still and shooting from a firing line is one thing.  Moving and 
shooting is a much much more difficult thing to do safely and well.  Your range 
did well to decline, if they had not trained or observed this fellow to make 
sure he wasn't a hazard to himself or others.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 30, 2017 6:42:30 PM EST, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>They had one guy that was pissed because they wouldn't let him do an
>action shoot that involved running from station to station with a
>loaded AR. He couldn't see why they had a problem with it.
>-Curt
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

that's a great way to think about it.  I carry concealed and know I'd 
pull the trigger if I or my family were threatened - but I'm not sure 
how I'd handle the aftermath.


Larry


On 01/30/2017 6:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Yup, training and learning and understanding the power and that dead is dead.
I can't handle paintball, shooting a person is so wrong to me. I *think* if 
threatened I could perform but I have it lodged in my head that you don't shoot 
anything you don't want dead...
-Curt

   From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he will die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

Hopefully everyone who owns or enjoys guns and shooting are NRA members.  The monthly 
magazine members get has a full page column called "The Armed Citizen",  It 
tells 8-12 stories about people who use guns to defend themselves or their property.  
Sometime it just take the presence of a gun while other time lethal force is use. The 
thing that hits me the hardest about these stories is how a calm situation can turn into 
a confrontation in a skinny instant.  There's no time for, 'I got a gun in the bottom of 
a closet' somewhere when someone (or more than one) decides to kick in your back door 
while you and the misses watch TV. The media never publicize a citizens use of a gun 
unless they can spin it to fit their agenda.  That's why I love these news stories.  It 
shows that it happens all the time - a couple or family will be sleeping or watching TV 
as in my 1st example and someone breaks a window and starts climbing in.  Or they might 
be out on the town when they turn a corner and are confronted with a groups of people 
looking for someone to rob or worse.  Often a retired octogenarian is the one sleeping or 
watching TV... without a gun they are at the mercy of who ever is breaking down their 
door - and they may not have any mercy to spare.

My point is, we need the NRA to protect our 2nd Amendment right which gives us 
the right to bear arms and protect ourselves against those stronger, more 
numerous or more willing to be violent than we are.  We have a God given right 
to protect ourselves from being beaten, robbed, raped or murdered and having a 
firearm gives us the means to protect ourselves.

Rant off - 'nuff said.

LarryT



On 01/30/2017 3:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Personal protection is a necessity in every area.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very unfortunate 
incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally shot with a 
handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know it was an 
accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as she was the 
one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.

As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  It’s 
easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live somewhere 
that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural area with some 
distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want some sort of 
personal protection in-house.  That would be after she took the proper courses 
in proper use and handling, too.

Safety first.

-D


On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I own many hand guns

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
something to plink with.

-D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Atta boy Kaleb!! Living life the Boy Scout way - always prepared.  ;-)

Larry


On 01/30/2017 6:52 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach 
loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he will 
die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

Hopefully everyone who owns or enjoys guns and shooting are NRA members.  The monthly 
magazine members get has a full page column called "The Armed Citizen",  It 
tells 8-12 stories about people who use guns to defend themselves or their property.  
Sometime it just take the presence of a gun while other time lethal force is use. The 
thing that hits me the hardest about these stories is how a calm situation can turn into 
a confrontation in a skinny instant.  There's no time for, 'I got a gun in the bottom of 
a closet' somewhere when someone (or more than one) decides to kick in your back door 
while you and the misses watch TV. The media never publicize a citizens use of a gun 
unless they can spin it to fit their agenda.   That's why I love these news stories.  It 
shows that it happens all the time - a couple or family will be sleeping or watching TV 
as in my 1st example and someone breaks a window and starts climbing in.  Or they might 
be out on the town when they turn a corner and are confronted with a groups of people 
looking for someone to rob or worse.   Often a retired octogenarian is the one sleeping 
or watching TV... without a gun they are at the mercy of who ever is breaking down their 
door - and they may not have any mercy to spare.

My point is, we need the NRA to protect our 2nd Amendment right which gives us 
the right to bear arms and protect ourselves against those stronger, more 
numerous or more willing to be violent than we are.  We have a God given right 
to protect ourselves from being beaten, robbed, raped or murdered and having a 
firearm gives us the means to protect ourselves.

Rant off - 'nuff said.

LarryT



On 01/30/2017 3:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Personal protection is a necessity in every area.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very unfortunate 
incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally shot with a 
handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know it was an 
accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as she was the 
one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.

As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  It’s 
easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live somewhere 
that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural area with some 
distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want some sort of 
personal protection in-house.  That would be after she took the proper courses 
in proper use and handling, too.

Safety first.

-D


On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

I own many hand guns

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
something to plink with.

-D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Yeah, there are those types at all ranges.  Our range requires people 
shoot at targets and all rounds must hit the berm or risk expulsion. We 
had an incident a couple of years ago when a ricochet hit someone or 
almost hit someone - I don't know the details for sure - they keep those 
things quiet -  it must have really scared management (we're a 
conservation club) when insurance came out and did an investigation - if 
insurance goes up too much we will cease to be.


re the max shooters We have some who must spend a fortune on ammo - they 
come out with either a rifle or pistol with the largest magazine 
possible and then they proceed to pull the trigger as fast as possible.  
I've never seen the attraction.   I enjoy my AR but I  have a 22LR 
conversion to make things more economical when shooting.  But here 
lately even 22LR's are getting too expensive to enjoy.   And shooting 
223's is just plain outrageous!


LarryT

91 300D















































































On 01/30/2017 6:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Sounds like a good range... I'm actually a member of a range here but haven't 
been over yet. I'm in the process of applying for concealed carry which is 
essentially a pistol permit in MA, and I read that being a member of a range 
can help your chances. I wanted to find a place to shoot anyway...
Don't get me wrong, the AR is a great gun, its the "tacticool" guys that drive 
me crazy. There are some at the range my dad goes to that don't even put up targets, just 
blaze away into the dirt...
They had one guy that was pissed because they wouldn't let him do an action 
shoot that involved running from station to station with a loaded AR. He 
couldn't see why they had a problem with it.
-Curt

   From: Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Larry Turner <l02tur...@comcast.net>
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

you're not alone - at least at my range where traditionalist like you

would be in the majority.  Only one of my rifles is a "Black gun" (AR15)
and all the others are wood and steel including my muzzleloader.

I don't think you're weird at all.

LarryT


On 01/30/2017 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any world 
I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made primarily of 
plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the 
non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun prastic

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Aesthetically, metal is nicer. I have a beautiful S hand ejector .32 S Long 
(six-shot J-frame) with incredible hand fitting of the frame side plate. It's 
about 100 years old, bought by my grandfather around the time he was working at 
Remington Arms in Ilion.

I learned to love plastic when I carried all day every day on the job. The 
weight of a full-size self-defense weapon in all steel gets old fast. Also, 
plastic helps absorb recoil from 9mm +P+ or .40 loads really well, more than 
making up for the lighter weight.

Greg
-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond 
via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:59 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Curt Raymond
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any world 
I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made primarily of 
plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the 
non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
So does my local gun shop have a good deal with their “Glocksparilla” deal? (We 
just celebrated “Gasparilla” this past weekend in Tampa.  Big local thing.)

Any Glock 26, 27, 19, 23, 17, 22 - w/Free Cleaning Kit
$525 Cash OTD - Gen3 (Reg. Pckg Price: $590)
$575 Cash OTD - Gen4 (Reg. Pckg Price: $650)


-D
   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[MG via Mercedes]

I was thinking at one time of getting one of those. The H-D 
military model.


Manfred

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've got one, or rather Dad has it for me since i haven't gotten a gun license 
for here yet. They're pretty fun. I've also got a High Standard .22 automatic 
thats a better gun. I made grips for that one out of soft pine while I was in 
high school, surprisingly they've held up well...
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>

 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or something to plink with.


-D



On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com> wrote:

No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any world 
I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made primarily of 
plastic...
The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the non-black part 
of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.

My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Absolutely.

My kids have all had the in-depth NRA sanctioned handgun training and range 
time.  One of them enjoyed it, the other didn’t, but they both got it.  Even 
though they won’t have the chance to “engage” here unless I’m involved, they 
know how to properly handle a firearm and render it safe, which is most 
important to me.

I’m working on the wife to take a “ladies” course that the local range does on 
a regular basis.  Health reasons have sidelined that for now, but it’s still on 
my mind for when she’s able.

I think the NRA is OK as an advocacy organization even separated from the 
political aspect of it.  They advocate for safety and do a lot of really good 
things in that regard, and for that I approve.  Education is really the key 
when it comes to owning and using a firearm, no matter what kind it is.  I’m 
not going to get involved in the politics of gun ownership, as this is not the 
place for it.  Suffice to say that those that own guns should have every 
opportunity to be trained to use them properly and safely and if there is an 
organization that helps to do that, I’m good with it in that respect. It’s a 
win-win for everyone, I think.

-D

  
> On Jan 30, 2017, at 6:52 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach 
> loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he 
> will die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I tend to think $500 for a Gen3 or $550 for Gen4 is an OK price. 
http://palmettostatearmory.com/firearms/handguns.html?manufacturer=12
Considering there's no shipping or transfer fees, $25 more with a free cleaning 
kit isn't bad. If you don't like/need the cleaning kit, will they substitute an 
extra magazine?

Mitch. 
> On January 30, 2017 at 2:28 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> So does my local gun shop have a good deal with their “Glocksparilla” deal? 
> (We just celebrated “Gasparilla” this past weekend in Tampa.  Big local 
> thing.)
> 
> Any Glock 26, 27, 19, 23, 17, 22 - w/Free Cleaning Kit
> $525 Cash OTD - Gen3 (Reg. Pckg Price: $590)
> $575 Cash OTD - Gen4 (Reg. Pckg Price: $650)
> 
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I remember some gun talk on here, is that still okay? 
> > This is probably the least political gun possible, a Centaure black powder 
> > muzzle loader. It was being sold on Guns America as a "Centaur 20ga Monkey 
> > Gun". I paid under $300 delivered.Its an interesting piece, from the muzzle 
> > loader revival, mid '60s or later I'm sure. Its Belgian and I found: 
> > http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html to figure the proof 
> > marks. Its got #1, 2 and #6, so muzzle loader only, smooth bore. Inspector 
> > is an S so Daenen Charles, 1952-1980. I can't find a cursive mark for a 
> > year.The bore is marked 16.2 (in millimeters) and measures something like 
> > .640 which is wy fat for a 20ga. I think he said 20 since theres a 20 
> > on the visible part of the barrel, the bore marking is on the underside. 
> > 16.2mm is .6377 so I'm reasonably sure my measurement is good.
> > So I'm reasonably sure this is actually a 16ga gun with a full choke. 
> > Technically it'd be 18ga from the barrel measurement but I can't tell what 
> > it is at the breech. This presents a bit of a problem for wads, 18ga wads 
> > are .647 for a .637 bore, 16ga are .672 for .662. Either will have to 
> > squish a bit to get through the choke but if the barrel opens up at the 
> > breech the 18ga will be loose... I think I need to make a couple disks to 
> > drop down there and see if I can spot a gap...
> > The idea is to try this for spring turkey hunting, I'm actually pleased 
> > with what I've got, I'd rather have a 16ga and if its really a full choke 
> > that'd be a big bonus, gives more "reach out and touch someone" ability...
> > -Curt
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 30, 2017 at 3:30 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  
> It’s easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live 
> somewhere that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural 
> area with some distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want 
> some sort of personal protection in-house. 


Did you just say you're delegating your family's defense to your neighbors?
How do you imagine that working out in a real world life threatening situation?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Yup, training and learning and understanding the power and that dead is dead.
I can't handle paintball, shooting a person is so wrong to me. I *think* if 
threatened I could perform but I have it lodged in my head that you don't shoot 
anything you don't want dead...
-Curt

  From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach 
loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he will 
die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Hopefully everyone who owns or enjoys guns and shooting are NRA members.  The 
> monthly magazine members get has a full page column called "The Armed 
> Citizen",  It tells 8-12 stories about people who use guns to defend 
> themselves or their property.  Sometime it just take the presence of a gun 
> while other time lethal force is use. The thing that hits me the hardest 
> about these stories is how a calm situation can turn into a confrontation in 
> a skinny instant.  There's no time for, 'I got a gun in the bottom of a 
> closet' somewhere when someone (or more than one) decides to kick in your 
> back door while you and the misses watch TV. The media never publicize a 
> citizens use of a gun unless they can spin it to fit their agenda.  That's 
> why I love these news stories.  It shows that it happens all the time - a 
> couple or family will be sleeping or watching TV as in my 1st example and 
> someone breaks a window and starts climbing in.  Or they might be out on the 
> town when they turn a corner and are confronted with a groups of people 
> looking for someone to rob or worse.  Often a retired octogenarian is the one 
> sleeping or watching TV... without a gun they are at the mercy of who ever is 
> breaking down their door - and they may not have any mercy to spare.
> 
> My point is, we need the NRA to protect our 2nd Amendment right which gives 
> us the right to bear arms and protect ourselves against those stronger, more 
> numerous or more willing to be violent than we are.  We have a God given 
> right to protect ourselves from being beaten, robbed, raped or murdered and 
> having a firearm gives us the means to protect ourselves.
> 
> Rant off - 'nuff said.
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
>> On 01/30/2017 3:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Personal protection is a necessity in every area.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very 
>>> unfortunate incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally 
>>> shot with a handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know 
>>> it was an accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as 
>>> she was the one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.
>>> 
>>> As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  
>>> It’s easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live 
>>> somewhere that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural 
>>> area with some distance between ourselves and others I would definitely 
>>> want some sort of personal protection in-house.  That would be after she 
>>> took the proper courses in proper use and handling, too.
>>> 
>>> Safety first.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I own many hand guns
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
>>>>> considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
>>>>> interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
>>>>> something to plink with.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -D
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To

Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 30, 2017 at 3:37 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Personal protection is a necessity in every area.
> 


It's like a fire extinguisher or seat belt. 
You probably won't need it today, or even this year, but if you don't have one 
every day, you won't have it when/if you really need it. 

Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

And now we are heading down the political road. I have a gun within reach 
loaded and ready to go all over the house. Kid knows not to touch it or he will 
die. A locked up gun does no good. Proper training is the key.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hopefully everyone who owns or enjoys guns and shooting are NRA members.  The 
> monthly magazine members get has a full page column called "The Armed 
> Citizen",  It tells 8-12 stories about people who use guns to defend 
> themselves or their property.  Sometime it just take the presence of a gun 
> while other time lethal force is use. The thing that hits me the hardest 
> about these stories is how a calm situation can turn into a confrontation in 
> a skinny instant.  There's no time for, 'I got a gun in the bottom of a 
> closet' somewhere when someone (or more than one) decides to kick in your 
> back door while you and the misses watch TV. The media never publicize a 
> citizens use of a gun unless they can spin it to fit their agenda.   That's 
> why I love these news stories.  It shows that it happens all the time - a 
> couple or family will be sleeping or watching TV as in my 1st example and 
> someone breaks a window and starts climbing in.  Or they might be out on the 
> town when they turn a corner and are confronted with a groups of people 
> looking for someone to rob or worse.   Often a retired octogenarian is the 
> one sleeping or watching TV... without a gun they are at the mercy of who 
> ever is breaking down their door - and they may not have any mercy to spare.
> 
> My point is, we need the NRA to protect our 2nd Amendment right which gives 
> us the right to bear arms and protect ourselves against those stronger, more 
> numerous or more willing to be violent than we are.  We have a God given 
> right to protect ourselves from being beaten, robbed, raped or murdered and 
> having a firearm gives us the means to protect ourselves.
> 
> Rant off - 'nuff said.
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
>> On 01/30/2017 3:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Personal protection is a necessity in every area.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very 
>>> unfortunate incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally 
>>> shot with a handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know 
>>> it was an accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as 
>>> she was the one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.
>>> 
>>> As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  
>>> It’s easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live 
>>> somewhere that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural 
>>> area with some distance between ourselves and others I would definitely 
>>> want some sort of personal protection in-house.  That would be after she 
>>> took the proper courses in proper use and handling, too.
>>> 
>>> Safety first.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 I own many hand guns
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
> considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
> interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
> something to plink with.
> 
> -D
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Sounds like a good range... I'm actually a member of a range here but haven't 
been over yet. I'm in the process of applying for concealed carry which is 
essentially a pistol permit in MA, and I read that being a member of a range 
can help your chances. I wanted to find a place to shoot anyway...
Don't get me wrong, the AR is a great gun, its the "tacticool" guys that drive 
me crazy. There are some at the range my dad goes to that don't even put up 
targets, just blaze away into the dirt...
They had one guy that was pissed because they wouldn't let him do an action 
shoot that involved running from station to station with a loaded AR. He 
couldn't see why they had a problem with it.
-Curt

  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Larry Turner <l02tur...@comcast.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
you're not alone - at least at my range where traditionalist like you 
would be in the majority.  Only one of my rifles is a "Black gun" (AR15) 
and all the others are wood and steel including my muzzleloader.

I don't think you're weird at all.

LarryT


On 01/30/2017 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any 
> world I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made 
> primarily of plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be 
> metal, the non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap 
> gun.
> My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
> got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
> -Curt
>
   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

you're not alone - at least at my range where traditionalist like you 
would be in the majority.  Only one of my rifles is a "Black gun" (AR15) 
and all the others are wood and steel including my muzzleloader.


I don't think you're weird at all.

LarryT


On 01/30/2017 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any world 
I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made primarily of 
plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the 
non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
-Curt

   From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

So does my local gun shop have a good deal with their “Glocksparilla” deal? (We just celebrated “Gasparilla” this past weekend in Tampa.  Big local thing.)


Any Glock 26, 27, 19, 23, 17, 22 - w/Free Cleaning Kit
$525 Cash OTD - Gen3 (Reg. Pckg Price: $590)
$575 Cash OTD - Gen4 (Reg. Pckg Price: $650)


-D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Hopefully everyone who owns or enjoys guns and shooting are NRA 
members.  The monthly magazine members get has a full page column called 
"The Armed Citizen",  It tells 8-12 stories about people who use guns to 
defend themselves or their property.  Sometime it just take the presence 
of a gun while other time lethal force is use. The thing that hits me 
the hardest about these stories is how a calm situation can turn into a 
confrontation in a skinny instant.  There's no time for, 'I got a gun in 
the bottom of a closet' somewhere when someone (or more than one) 
decides to kick in your back door while you and the misses watch TV. The 
media never publicize a citizens use of a gun unless they can spin it to 
fit their agenda.   That's why I love these news stories.  It shows that 
it happens all the time - a couple or family will be sleeping or 
watching TV as in my 1st example and someone breaks a window and starts 
climbing in.  Or they might be out on the town when they turn a corner 
and are confronted with a groups of people looking for someone to rob or 
worse.   Often a retired octogenarian is the one sleeping or watching 
TV... without a gun they are at the mercy of who ever is breaking down 
their door - and they may not have any mercy to spare.


My point is, we need the NRA to protect our 2nd Amendment right which 
gives us the right to bear arms and protect ourselves against those 
stronger, more numerous or more willing to be violent than we are.  We 
have a God given right to protect ourselves from being beaten, robbed, 
raped or murdered and having a firearm gives us the means to protect 
ourselves.


Rant off - 'nuff said.

LarryT


On 01/30/2017 3:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Personal protection is a necessity in every area.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very unfortunate 
incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally shot with a 
handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know it was an 
accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as she was the 
one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.

As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  It’s 
easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live somewhere 
that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural area with some 
distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want some sort of 
personal protection in-house.  That would be after she took the proper courses 
in proper use and handling, too.

Safety first.

-D


On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

I own many hand guns

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
something to plink with.

-D


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've got one, or rather Dad has it for me since i haven't gotten a gun license 
for here yet. They're pretty fun. I've also got a High Standard .22 automatic 
thats a better gun. I made grips for that one out of soft pine while I was in 
high school, surprisingly they've held up well...
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
something to plink with.

-D


> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any 
> world I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made 
> primarily of plastic...
> The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the non-black 
> part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
> 
> My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
> got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
> 
> -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Personal protection is a necessity in every area.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very 
> unfortunate incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally 
> shot with a handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know 
> it was an accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as 
> she was the one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.
> 
> As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  
> It’s easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live 
> somewhere that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural 
> area with some distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want 
> some sort of personal protection in-house.  That would be after she took the 
> proper courses in proper use and handling, too.
> 
> Safety first.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I own many hand guns
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
>>> considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
>>> interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
>>> something to plink with.
>>> 
>>> -D
> 
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Handguns are not a topic I care to broach at home.  Wife had a very unfortunate 
incident when she was a kid where her father was accidentally shot with a 
handgun that was improperly stored in an overnight bag.  I know it was an 
accident and preventable, but it was pretty terrifying to her as she was the 
one who was the first responder and had to deal with the trauma.

As a result I defer to her concerns about having a handgun in the house.  It’s 
easy to understand why it would freak her out.  It’s not like we live somewhere 
that personal protection is a necessity.  If we lived in a rural area with some 
distance between ourselves and others I would definitely want some sort of 
personal protection in-house.  That would be after she took the proper courses 
in proper use and handling, too.

Safety first.

-D

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I own many hand guns
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
>> considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
>> interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
>> something to plink with.
>> 
>> -D


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎For Dan P. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtSh3kFT4yw=em

Rick 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I own many hand guns

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
> considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
> interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
> something to plink with.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> 
>> No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any 
>> world I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made 
>> primarily of plastic...
>> The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the non-black 
>> part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
>> 
>> My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. 
>> I've got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
>> 
>> -Curt
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I don’t really have a desire to own a handgun, but if I did I have always 
considered a Ruger Mark IV.  Yes, I know it’s a .22 pistol, but I’m not 
interested in something for personal protection, just a target pistol or 
something to plink with.

-D


> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any 
> world I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made 
> primarily of plastic...
> The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the non-black 
> part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
> 
> My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
> got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
> 
> -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

No idea. I think I'm probably a bit of a weirdo in the gun world (or any world 
I suppose) in that I don't really give a dang about any gun made primarily of 
plastic...The black part of the gun (if any) is supposed to be metal, the 
non-black part of a pistol could be plastic I suppose, for a cheap gun.
My in-line muzzleloader has a plastic stock, its okay but has zero soul. I've 
got plans to replace it with a Hawken rifle at some point in the future.
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun
   
So does my local gun shop have a good deal with their “Glocksparilla” deal? (We 
just celebrated “Gasparilla” this past weekend in Tampa.  Big local thing.)

Any Glock 26, 27, 19, 23, 17, 22 - w/Free Cleaning Kit
$525 Cash OTD - Gen3 (Reg. Pckg Price: $590)
$575 Cash OTD - Gen4 (Reg. Pckg Price: $650)


-D
   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

So does my local gun shop have a good deal with their “Glocksparilla” deal? (We 
just celebrated “Gasparilla” this past weekend in Tampa.  Big local thing.)

Any Glock 26, 27, 19, 23, 17, 22 - w/Free Cleaning Kit
$525 Cash OTD - Gen3 (Reg. Pckg Price: $590)
$575 Cash OTD - Gen4 (Reg. Pckg Price: $650)


-D



> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I remember some gun talk on here, is that still okay? 
> This is probably the least political gun possible, a Centaure black powder 
> muzzle loader. It was being sold on Guns America as a "Centaur 20ga Monkey 
> Gun". I paid under $300 delivered.Its an interesting piece, from the muzzle 
> loader revival, mid '60s or later I'm sure. Its Belgian and I found: 
> http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html to figure the proof 
> marks. Its got #1, 2 and #6, so muzzle loader only, smooth bore. Inspector is 
> an S so Daenen Charles, 1952-1980. I can't find a cursive mark for a year.The 
> bore is marked 16.2 (in millimeters) and measures something like .640 which 
> is wy fat for a 20ga. I think he said 20 since theres a 20 on the visible 
> part of the barrel, the bore marking is on the underside. 16.2mm is .6377 so 
> I'm reasonably sure my measurement is good.
> So I'm reasonably sure this is actually a 16ga gun with a full choke. 
> Technically it'd be 18ga from the barrel measurement but I can't tell what it 
> is at the breech. This presents a bit of a problem for wads, 18ga wads are 
> .647 for a .637 bore, 16ga are .672 for .662. Either will have to squish a 
> bit to get through the choke but if the barrel opens up at the breech the 
> 18ga will be loose... I think I need to make a couple disks to drop down 
> there and see if I can spot a gap...
> The idea is to try this for spring turkey hunting, I'm actually pleased with 
> what I've got, I'd rather have a 16ga and if its really a full choke that'd 
> be a big bonus, gives more "reach out and touch someone" ability...
> -Curt
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New gun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Gun talk is just fine.

-D

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I remember some gun talk on here, is that still okay? 
> This is probably the least political gun possible, a Centaure black powder 
> muzzle loader. It was being sold on Guns America as a "Centaur 20ga Monkey 
> Gun". I paid under $300 delivered.Its an interesting piece, from the muzzle 
> loader revival, mid '60s or later I'm sure. Its Belgian and I found: 
> http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html to figure the proof 
> marks. Its got #1, 2 and #6, so muzzle loader only, smooth bore. Inspector is 
> an S so Daenen Charles, 1952-1980. I can't find a cursive mark for a year.The 
> bore is marked 16.2 (in millimeters) and measures something like .640 which 
> is wy fat for a 20ga. I think he said 20 since theres a 20 on the visible 
> part of the barrel, the bore marking is on the underside. 16.2mm is .6377 so 
> I'm reasonably sure my measurement is good.
> So I'm reasonably sure this is actually a 16ga gun with a full choke. 
> Technically it'd be 18ga from the barrel measurement but I can't tell what it 
> is at the breech. This presents a bit of a problem for wads, 18ga wads are 
> .647 for a .637 bore, 16ga are .672 for .662. Either will have to squish a 
> bit to get through the choke but if the barrel opens up at the breech the 
> 18ga will be loose... I think I need to make a couple disks to drop down 
> there and see if I can spot a gap...
> The idea is to try this for spring turkey hunting, I'm actually pleased with 
> what I've got, I'd rather have a 16ga and if its really a full choke that'd 
> be a big bonus, gives more "reach out and touch someone" ability...
> -Curt
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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