Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
As I mentioned in an earlier post, during the admissions process for one of Mrs. Dan’s cancer surgeries, there was a little stand up placard/sign on the person’s desk that stated something to the effect of: “If you do not have health insurance and will be 100% responsible for charges, we offer a 50% discount when your balance in paid within 30 days of the date of service. If you pay your balance in 15 days or less, the discount is 60%.” Translation (for me): Everything is negotiable. -D > On Aug 12, 2022, at 6:54 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes > wrote: > > I would agree that when it comes to being in the hospital, the patient with > the squeaky wheel family gets better care. As providers, just knowing we > are being observed helps us to remain vigilant and sharp. This applies to > all members of the care team - RNs etc. > > I forgot to mention that if you are uninsured and go to the hospital, then > receive an astronomical bill, you can almost always negotiate a 75% > discount on that for cash. This is because insurance companies typically > get about 80% off the full rate, so hospitals are just giving you the same > deal if you ask for it. But you have to ask. All this is a holdover from > days of yore when insurers paid the full asking price; believe it or not > there are still a few who do and hospitals do not want to miss out on that > income, so they still send out a bill for the full amount because they have > to charge the same rate for everyone. > > Regards, > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 11:08 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Excellent commentary, Karl, Thank you so much for taking the time to put >> this together. >> >> To reflect on a couple of things: >> >> Insurers rejecting claims to “run down” the claimant - I had this happen >> with orthodontic work I had done as a part of an oral surgery that was >> medically necessary. Cigna kept constantly rejecting (legitimate) claims by >> my orthodontic provider for no reason. Mrs. Dan has worked in the medical >> prescription processing (IT) field for some time, so we’re well acquainted >> with claim processing and things like “HICPIC” codes. Not our first rodeo. >> I filed a complaint and requested arbitration, and what do you know? Two >> days after I filed for arbitration the claim got paid. I refuse to believe >> that was a coincidence. >> >> I can’t stress enough how important it is to advocate for yourself when it >> involves medical treatment. That, and make sure your significant other or >> family can do the same in case you’re not able to. I’ve seen too many times >> when people just willingly accept what they’re told, rather than ask the >> hard questions to get the full picture of potential treatments and >> outcomes. That’s not to say all caregivers don’t provide this, but >> oftentimes they don’t or only present what they think is best. Especially >> when it comes to major illnesses or surgeries, it’s incumbent on the >> patient to have as much information as possible to be able to make the best >> informed decision as to their treatment. >> >> When Mrs. Dan was hospitalized for being overmedicated as I mentioned >> before, had I let things go as the caregivers wanted to, the outcome might >> not have been ideal. Instead, I challenged their direction and was able to >> get some of their peers involved who helped us to come to a more >> appropriate approach with a good outcome. Understand that I didn’t >> challenge their knowledge or suggestions, I just probed for more >> information and other potential treatment approaches. Had there been none I >> would have been fine with moving forward as they originally suggested. >> >> You gotta be on the field with the team, not the sidelines. >> >> Again, thanks a bunch, Karl. >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 12, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> I have some thoughts. >>> >>> 19% of the US GDP is spent on health care. It is staggeringly higher >> than >>> the next highest country. So a logical question is: where does the money >> go? >>> >>> >> https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/#:~:text=Among%20OECD%20member%20countries%2C%20the,U.S.%20with%20distinctly%20smaller%20percentages >>> . >>> >>> The medicare observation was correct. Doctors fought it tooth and nail, >> but >>> it ended up making a bunch of MDs very wealthy in the 1970s and 80s >> because >>> they paid well and the private insurers paid asking cost to docs and >>> hospitals. >>> >>> When it became clear that this was unfair and unsustainable, we started >> to >>> see medicare and insurers start ratcheting payments down. This has put >>> pressure on independent providers in lower paying specialties like >> primary >>> care. Consolidation among payors means the small docs are at their mercy >>> for getting paid. Literally insurers wl just reject 10% of claims >>
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I would agree that when it comes to being in the hospital, the patient with the squeaky wheel family gets better care. As providers, just knowing we are being observed helps us to remain vigilant and sharp. This applies to all members of the care team - RNs etc. I forgot to mention that if you are uninsured and go to the hospital, then receive an astronomical bill, you can almost always negotiate a 75% discount on that for cash. This is because insurance companies typically get about 80% off the full rate, so hospitals are just giving you the same deal if you ask for it. But you have to ask. All this is a holdover from days of yore when insurers paid the full asking price; believe it or not there are still a few who do and hospitals do not want to miss out on that income, so they still send out a bill for the full amount because they have to charge the same rate for everyone. Regards, On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 11:08 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Excellent commentary, Karl, Thank you so much for taking the time to put > this together. > > To reflect on a couple of things: > > Insurers rejecting claims to “run down” the claimant - I had this happen > with orthodontic work I had done as a part of an oral surgery that was > medically necessary. Cigna kept constantly rejecting (legitimate) claims by > my orthodontic provider for no reason. Mrs. Dan has worked in the medical > prescription processing (IT) field for some time, so we’re well acquainted > with claim processing and things like “HICPIC” codes. Not our first rodeo. > I filed a complaint and requested arbitration, and what do you know? Two > days after I filed for arbitration the claim got paid. I refuse to believe > that was a coincidence. > > I can’t stress enough how important it is to advocate for yourself when it > involves medical treatment. That, and make sure your significant other or > family can do the same in case you’re not able to. I’ve seen too many times > when people just willingly accept what they’re told, rather than ask the > hard questions to get the full picture of potential treatments and > outcomes. That’s not to say all caregivers don’t provide this, but > oftentimes they don’t or only present what they think is best. Especially > when it comes to major illnesses or surgeries, it’s incumbent on the > patient to have as much information as possible to be able to make the best > informed decision as to their treatment. > > When Mrs. Dan was hospitalized for being overmedicated as I mentioned > before, had I let things go as the caregivers wanted to, the outcome might > not have been ideal. Instead, I challenged their direction and was able to > get some of their peers involved who helped us to come to a more > appropriate approach with a good outcome. Understand that I didn’t > challenge their knowledge or suggestions, I just probed for more > information and other potential treatment approaches. Had there been none I > would have been fine with moving forward as they originally suggested. > > You gotta be on the field with the team, not the sidelines. > > Again, thanks a bunch, Karl. > > Dan > > > On Aug 12, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > I have some thoughts. > > > > 19% of the US GDP is spent on health care. It is staggeringly higher > than > > the next highest country. So a logical question is: where does the money > go? > > > > > https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/#:~:text=Among%20OECD%20member%20countries%2C%20the,U.S.%20with%20distinctly%20smaller%20percentages > > . > > > > The medicare observation was correct. Doctors fought it tooth and nail, > but > > it ended up making a bunch of MDs very wealthy in the 1970s and 80s > because > > they paid well and the private insurers paid asking cost to docs and > > hospitals. > > > > When it became clear that this was unfair and unsustainable, we started > to > > see medicare and insurers start ratcheting payments down. This has put > > pressure on independent providers in lower paying specialties like > primary > > care. Consolidation among payors means the small docs are at their mercy > > for getting paid. Literally insurers wl just reject 10% of claims > outright > > and hope that a docs office cannot pay someone to sit on the phone for > two > > hours to sort it out. This and other administrative inefficiencies > account > > for perhaps 15% of every healthcare dollar spent. > > > > Rates for doc payment are actually set largely by the AMA. The whole > system > > rewards procedures of various types. This leads to wide disparities in > the > > cost of care; unscrupulous for-profit health systems and docs can bilk > the > > insurance/medicare system by upcoding visits systematically: > > >
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Excellent commentary, Karl, Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together. To reflect on a couple of things: Insurers rejecting claims to “run down” the claimant - I had this happen with orthodontic work I had done as a part of an oral surgery that was medically necessary. Cigna kept constantly rejecting (legitimate) claims by my orthodontic provider for no reason. Mrs. Dan has worked in the medical prescription processing (IT) field for some time, so we’re well acquainted with claim processing and things like “HICPIC” codes. Not our first rodeo. I filed a complaint and requested arbitration, and what do you know? Two days after I filed for arbitration the claim got paid. I refuse to believe that was a coincidence. I can’t stress enough how important it is to advocate for yourself when it involves medical treatment. That, and make sure your significant other or family can do the same in case you’re not able to. I’ve seen too many times when people just willingly accept what they’re told, rather than ask the hard questions to get the full picture of potential treatments and outcomes. That’s not to say all caregivers don’t provide this, but oftentimes they don’t or only present what they think is best. Especially when it comes to major illnesses or surgeries, it’s incumbent on the patient to have as much information as possible to be able to make the best informed decision as to their treatment. When Mrs. Dan was hospitalized for being overmedicated as I mentioned before, had I let things go as the caregivers wanted to, the outcome might not have been ideal. Instead, I challenged their direction and was able to get some of their peers involved who helped us to come to a more appropriate approach with a good outcome. Understand that I didn’t challenge their knowledge or suggestions, I just probed for more information and other potential treatment approaches. Had there been none I would have been fine with moving forward as they originally suggested. You gotta be on the field with the team, not the sidelines. Again, thanks a bunch, Karl. Dan > On Aug 12, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes > wrote: > > I have some thoughts. > > 19% of the US GDP is spent on health care. It is staggeringly higher than > the next highest country. So a logical question is: where does the money go? > > https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/#:~:text=Among%20OECD%20member%20countries%2C%20the,U.S.%20with%20distinctly%20smaller%20percentages > . > > The medicare observation was correct. Doctors fought it tooth and nail, but > it ended up making a bunch of MDs very wealthy in the 1970s and 80s because > they paid well and the private insurers paid asking cost to docs and > hospitals. > > When it became clear that this was unfair and unsustainable, we started to > see medicare and insurers start ratcheting payments down. This has put > pressure on independent providers in lower paying specialties like primary > care. Consolidation among payors means the small docs are at their mercy > for getting paid. Literally insurers wl just reject 10% of claims outright > and hope that a docs office cannot pay someone to sit on the phone for two > hours to sort it out. This and other administrative inefficiencies account > for perhaps 15% of every healthcare dollar spent. > > Rates for doc payment are actually set largely by the AMA. The whole system > rewards procedures of various types. This leads to wide disparities in the > cost of care; unscrupulous for-profit health systems and docs can bilk the > insurance/medicare system by upcoding visits systematically: > https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum/amp=2ahUKEwjKsreD5MH5AhWsKkQIHcnxASQQFnoECBAQAQ=AOvVaw2B-tTctc6j_7JCvqiSMUNG > > But it also drives a lot of the best docs into high paying specialties > that do lots of procedures. This is why finding a good primary care doc > just gets harder and harder. The US imports foreign medical grads to fill > primary care training slots every year, because US grads know their life is > going to suck if they practice internal medicine. Your example of the > cardiologist married to your internist is a great example; the internist > can work part time because the cardiologist makes more than double the > salary. Otherwise the internist could not live on that income. > > Because they cant get paid by insurance companies, literally, unless they > are part of a larger network of docs, most internists go into practices > that they do not own or manage. This is true in the hospital and for > outpatient jobs. So most internists are working for the man. If they built > up a big practice, they will get bought by a hospital network who can > negotiate better rates with insurers. Hospital owned practices can also > charge a lot more for the same services through a payment
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I have some thoughts. 19% of the US GDP is spent on health care. It is staggeringly higher than the next highest country. So a logical question is: where does the money go? https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/#:~:text=Among%20OECD%20member%20countries%2C%20the,U.S.%20with%20distinctly%20smaller%20percentages . The medicare observation was correct. Doctors fought it tooth and nail, but it ended up making a bunch of MDs very wealthy in the 1970s and 80s because they paid well and the private insurers paid asking cost to docs and hospitals. When it became clear that this was unfair and unsustainable, we started to see medicare and insurers start ratcheting payments down. This has put pressure on independent providers in lower paying specialties like primary care. Consolidation among payors means the small docs are at their mercy for getting paid. Literally insurers wl just reject 10% of claims outright and hope that a docs office cannot pay someone to sit on the phone for two hours to sort it out. This and other administrative inefficiencies account for perhaps 15% of every healthcare dollar spent. Rates for doc payment are actually set largely by the AMA. The whole system rewards procedures of various types. This leads to wide disparities in the cost of care; unscrupulous for-profit health systems and docs can bilk the insurance/medicare system by upcoding visits systematically: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum/amp=2ahUKEwjKsreD5MH5AhWsKkQIHcnxASQQFnoECBAQAQ=AOvVaw2B-tTctc6j_7JCvqiSMUNG But it also drives a lot of the best docs into high paying specialties that do lots of procedures. This is why finding a good primary care doc just gets harder and harder. The US imports foreign medical grads to fill primary care training slots every year, because US grads know their life is going to suck if they practice internal medicine. Your example of the cardiologist married to your internist is a great example; the internist can work part time because the cardiologist makes more than double the salary. Otherwise the internist could not live on that income. Because they cant get paid by insurance companies, literally, unless they are part of a larger network of docs, most internists go into practices that they do not own or manage. This is true in the hospital and for outpatient jobs. So most internists are working for the man. If they built up a big practice, they will get bought by a hospital network who can negotiate better rates with insurers. Hospital owned practices can also charge a lot more for the same services through a payment adjustment designed to compensate hospitals for the cost of caring for uninsured etc. So pracitces are all consolidating due to our frankly corrupt, self serving insurance system taking 20% off the top while denying doctors payment for care provided and denying patients access to needed care at the same time. The concierge model is great if you get a good doc. There are a lot of quacks out there who are financially motivated and practicing sketchy medicine but are accessible to their patients, who dont always know the doc is a quack. There are good concierge docs also. LA is full of them. In any event, the system needs to pay docs to do the right thing. If primary care paid more, more of the smartest people in medicine would do it. GPs in rural Scotland can and do make a killing, for instance, because the system values what they do. Our system tends to reward docs for operating on people and doing coloniscopies and putting in heart valves and stents, so you get smart, materialistic people doing those things and no coherent primary care provider. Until AMA changes the RVUs assigned to primary care, and Medicare pays more for those visits, this will not change. Same with the opioid epidemic; if pain management providers were paid as much for an opioid weaning appointment as they are for an epidural or facet block or radiofrequency ablation, then no one would be strung out on prescription narcotics. You get the idea. Of course hospitals get paid more for procedures also, which is part of the problem. As previously mentioned, insurance companies are a total scam, skimming 20% off every healthcare dollar. They should be limited to 3-5% as they are in Germany. Poof your healthcare just got a lot cheaper.. Medicare should be allowed to negotiate drug prices with drug manufacturers in the same way other countries and our own VA hospitals do. No reason for us to subsidize drug development for the whole world only for drug companies to sell the same drug to Canadians for 1/3 what it costs Americans. Complete graft and unpatriotic. Pigs at the healthcare trough. But we allow it, because Pharma has your congressperson in their pocket. Think about it. We already have socialized medicine. It is called EMTALA and it was brought to you by Ronald Regan:
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Some good points, Greg, thanks for the insight. One of my concerns when it comes to socialized medicine is more a matter of the ability for everyone to have access to free or inexpensive medical care. It may not be timely, which seems to be a common thread in these systems both in Canada and the UK from my experience, but at least it’s available to every person at little to no cost. I see the person serving up my burger or even my oldest son, who still doesn’t have medical coverage through his employer, and think about how they’re just one emergency away from bankruptcy. I took my oldest son to a local walk-in clinic on Monday to be treated for COVID and get Paxlovid, and the charge for the office visit alone was $135. Had he gone to my internist’s medical practice it would have been more like $275. Fortunately, the Paxlovid was free, but still, for someone working for $15 or even $20 an hour $135 is a HUGE amount of money. Lucky for him he does a good job saving and budgeting, so he had it, but how many people don’t? And I’m not talking about people who are indigent, I’m talking about a large swath of our society. There is a large contingent of Canadians that “invade” Florida on a seasonal basis, and they hit the health care system heavily when they’re here. My mother in law complains about how tough it is to get a doctor’s appointment between October and April because of the influx of Canadians in her area. -D > On Aug 10, 2022, at 4:26 PM, greg via Mercedes wrote: > > I think if that were my dr. I would fire him. > > My further thoughts: it's a localized supply/demand issue. I have a really > good internist and a super cardiologist. I am sure either one could earn > much more in NY or BOS. The internist's wife is also an MD and they each > work 3 days. The cardio is a triathlete and I'm guessing enjoys the > outdoor opportunities in the PNW. I never have trouble getting my > appointments or meds. My D-I-L on the coast has all sorts of trouble. > She's told her scrips are ready then they don't have any when she arrives. > > WRT socialized medicine: I lived in BC for 5 years and paid for (heavily > subsidized) BC Med. It was fine because I retained my US health insurance > and could easily use US services if needed. BC med actually pays for > flights into the US for some emergency services not available there, and > many Canadians pay in the US so they don't have to wait many months for > some procedures. I doubt that anyone who lived under socialized medicine > would want it in the US. > > Greg > >> What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The >> spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. >> Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get >> an IV and just gave up. Today she had a â?owellnessâ? visit with our >> primary care doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the >> visit and the huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this >> visit was only to review certain things. Basically just going over the >> most basic items. So you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring >> illness and say you would need to make a sick visit rather than this >> wellness visit? It would seem to this recent issue should be addressed on >> any visit including a wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I >> want to ask about my neck problems, or anything related to my blood >> thinners he doesnâ?Tt want to discuss it, only what is on his simpleton >> agenda for the day. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I think if that were my dr. I would fire him. My further thoughts: it's a localized supply/demand issue. I have a really good internist and a super cardiologist. I am sure either one could earn much more in NY or BOS. The internist's wife is also an MD and they each work 3 days. The cardio is a triathlete and I'm guessing enjoys the outdoor opportunities in the PNW. I never have trouble getting my appointments or meds. My D-I-L on the coast has all sorts of trouble. She's told her scrips are ready then they don't have any when she arrives. WRT socialized medicine: I lived in BC for 5 years and paid for (heavily subsidized) BC Med. It was fine because I retained my US health insurance and could easily use US services if needed. BC med actually pays for flights into the US for some emergency services not available there, and many Canadians pay in the US so they don't have to wait many months for some procedures. I doubt that anyone who lived under socialized medicine would want it in the US. Greg > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The > spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. > Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get > an IV and just gave up. Today she had a âwellnessâ visit with our > primary care doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the > visit and the huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this > visit was only to review certain things. Basically just going over the > most basic items. So you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring > illness and say you would need to make a sick visit rather than this > wellness visit? It would seem to this recent issue should be addressed on > any visit including a wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I > want to ask about my neck problems, or anything related to my blood > thinners he doesnât want to discuss it, only what is on his simpleton > agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
>> Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. > Just as, ultimately, you are responsible for your own protection. I carry a pistol, because carrying a cop is too heavy. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
The one take-away I have from every interaction with the current HMO/Medical facility is that I have been removed further away from the Doctor-Patient relationship where the Doctor has taken a sacred Hippocratic Oath that swears said Doctor will "First do no harm" and second, keep the patient "Fully informed" about the treatment and the medications used. This Hippocratic Oath is now also reinforced by the "Nuremberg Code" that all civilized countries now require Doctors to include in their oath to "fully inform and have informed consent by the patient" before giving a treatment. This is why, any time you pick up a script at a pharmacy, you are given [by law] a medical data sheet for the drug you pick up, which gives details of what it is, any and all known possible side effects, etc.. The farther I am isolated from that doctor, by HMO intermediate people, the less accountable those people are to those Oaths and my personal well being. This troubles me, a lot. On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 4:07 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Exactly my point. > > If you’ve got one central “source of truth” who doesn’t have to be the > treating physician necessarily, but the go-to for anyone in the patient’s > “universe” for information, everyone benefits. > > We had a situation where a pain management PA overprescribed pain > medication for Mrs. Dan’s back pain. As a result of this, she (unknowingly) > overmedicated one time when it was quite severe and ended up in the > hospital for three days getting the stuff cleared out of her system. When > other caregivers reviewed her records/history during triage they > immediately spotted the error. Had there been someone that would have > reviewed her information on a regular/global basis this could very well > have been avoided. > > -D > > > On Aug 10, 2022, at 2:06 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > On 2022-08-09 21:52, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: > >> I’m convinced it’s the way to go, especially for someone with a lot of > >> health issues. I can’t count the number of doctors Mrs. Dan sees for > >> her various health issues, and I realize that no one doctor could > >> address it all, but to have one that gets the “big picture” I believe > >> is far more important that seeing a bunch of disparate practitioners. > > > > At one time, my parents' rheumatologist had taken over that function, > and managed their multiple drugs and interactions. Their old GP resented > the hell out of it, when it was his incompetence that forced the specialist > to take over the general functions. The new GP, same guy I use now, had no > problem with the arrangement. When we were trying to get a diagnosis for > mom's Giant Cell Arteritis before she went blind or died, she got referred > to a teaching brain specialist at MSU. When he mentioned that a > rheumatology consult might be in order, she told him who the Rheumatologist > was, and he said something like "oh, yeah, the guy who's been sending me > faxes about you and I've been ignoring". > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I agree, to some extent. However, a lot of this depends on the market you’re in, too. I say that because if we compare the available caregivers, especially specialists, between say Flagstaff and Tampa there’s no comparison. Because Flagstaff does have an excellent range of specialists and practitioners in general, it’s not a bad place to get good care. But - there’s very little “depth” as far as practitioners are concerned. That is, where we might be able to choose from 10-20 specialists in the same discipline in Tampa, there might only be one or two in Flagstaff. Don’t like one? Your choices are immediately limited unless you care to drive the two hours to Phoenix. We have dropped/changed doctors in the past if we weren’t satisfied with their level of care or some other attribute. And when that’s happened we provide constructive feedback, either in person or in writing. For that matter, we do this with just about any professional service provider. If they do well, like my ENT APRN on Monday, they receive immediate feedback and praise. If they don’t they get feedback and we see what their response is. If nothing changes or they’re dismissive, we move on. They might have been having a rough day - we get that - and if that’s the case they get another chance. It’s not fair to judge without giving the subject the opportunity to address their inadequacies. A good example of this was our former internist, many years ago (1998, I recall). I had a 1:00 pm appointment. I arrived early, did my paperwork and waited. And waited. When 2:00 pm rolled around, I told the receptionist I was leaving, and I did. Mrs. Dan saw the internist a few days later, and they remarked that I did’t show up for an appointment earlier in the week. Mrs. Dan “corrected” them and explained that I left because I wasn’t going to wait an hour past my appointment time to see them. I got a phone call from the doctor that evening with an apology, and a request that I rebook my appointment at my earliest possible convenience. The next time I was there they were running a few minutes late, and the receptionist let me know this. I saw them maybe 5-10 minutes after the appointment time, at which they apologized again. I never had a problem with late appointments there again. My time has value, too. If you can’t manage your practice/time in a manner that keeps things on schedule, you need to change, not me. The BS of sitting in a waiting room for hours tells me you don’t value my time. -D > On Aug 10, 2022, at 9:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > >> This is also why I’m all for socialized medicine. It’s far from perfect, but >> as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the >> patient. > > Profits are not the problem. The lack of _competition_ is the problem. > You don't like how you're being treated? Vote with your feet. With enough > such votes the bad ones either get the message and improve, or die. Either > way, you (we) win. Yes, it can be inefficient. That's what makes it work. > > Systems that prevent you from doing this are Evil, regardless of the ideology > in which they cloak themselves. It is also your (our) responsibility to > provide > good feedback. Traditionally it is a nice letter explaining why you will > never > darken their door again. Be nice. Be thorough. A walk, _with_ a letter, is > at least 10x more effective than a walk alone. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
> Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. You are not required to tell the truth. That kind of question is from the list that also contains: "Does this dress make me look fat?" and "Do you really think she's attractive?" It's a trap, answer truthfully at your peril. > Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. Just as, ultimately, you are responsible for your own protection. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. (Unless they're busy.) I suspect that, if we were to dig deep enough, the real root of evil in our system was the socialist wartime wage freezes that drove insurance away from being an individual choice and into being a provided-for-you work-time benefit. Less eyes on it means that there is greater room for the rot to begin. 'Efficient' systems are fragile. They cannot cope with the unexpected. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
> This is also why I’m all for socialized medicine. It’s far from perfect, but > as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the > patient. Profits are not the problem. The lack of _competition_ is the problem. You don't like how you're being treated? Vote with your feet. With enough such votes the bad ones either get the message and improve, or die. Either way, you (we) win. Yes, it can be inefficient. That's what makes it work. Systems that prevent you from doing this are Evil, regardless of the ideology in which they cloak themselves. It is also your (our) responsibility to provide good feedback. Traditionally it is a nice letter explaining why you will never darken their door again. Be nice. Be thorough. A walk, _with_ a letter, is at least 10x more effective than a walk alone. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
How about: "I would be well, except that I am sick." -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I supposedly never had any cardiac issues. Everything came back clean. The symptoms I recall having at the time were very similar to some of the symptoms I had when I got the pulmonary embolism real bad. I then began to wonder if I had a mild one that they missed while instead looking for heart issues and luckily it resolved itself. I am not sure if that is possible or not but that’s my theory. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2022, at 12:59 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes > wrote: > > On 2022-08-09 22:36, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: >> That is the role I see a primary care doctor and sort of overseeing >> the big picture from all the separate specialist. Instead mine won’t >> hear any of it. All he does is read off previous test results then >> order new test results. > > > Not a great situation when you seem to have ongoing issues which don't have > an obvious solution if nobody's organizing a coherent search for the > solution. You ever get everything resolved? Seems like you had some progress > on the cardiac stuff. > > At least my Doc was doing his best when I had running diarrhea for over a > year. But there were some errors. > He ran the standard tests, which all came back negative, then ordered a > colonoscopy, which came back normal, then sent me to a specialist, who told > me the first thing he wanted was a colonoscopy, but a special one looking for > specific digestive issues rather than the general cancer screening which I > just had. > Eventually I figured out for myself that I had lost the ability to digest > certain fats, like for instance, potato chips. Zero chips, not more than a > few pretzels, no more backwards vomiting and no more Imodium. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Exactly my point. If you’ve got one central “source of truth” who doesn’t have to be the treating physician necessarily, but the go-to for anyone in the patient’s “universe” for information, everyone benefits. We had a situation where a pain management PA overprescribed pain medication for Mrs. Dan’s back pain. As a result of this, she (unknowingly) overmedicated one time when it was quite severe and ended up in the hospital for three days getting the stuff cleared out of her system. When other caregivers reviewed her records/history during triage they immediately spotted the error. Had there been someone that would have reviewed her information on a regular/global basis this could very well have been avoided. -D > On Aug 10, 2022, at 2:06 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes > wrote: > > On 2022-08-09 21:52, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >> I’m convinced it’s the way to go, especially for someone with a lot of >> health issues. I can’t count the number of doctors Mrs. Dan sees for >> her various health issues, and I realize that no one doctor could >> address it all, but to have one that gets the “big picture” I believe >> is far more important that seeing a bunch of disparate practitioners. > > At one time, my parents' rheumatologist had taken over that function, and > managed their multiple drugs and interactions. Their old GP resented the hell > out of it, when it was his incompetence that forced the specialist to take > over the general functions. The new GP, same guy I use now, had no problem > with the arrangement. When we were trying to get a diagnosis for mom's Giant > Cell Arteritis before she went blind or died, she got referred to a teaching > brain specialist at MSU. When he mentioned that a rheumatology consult might > be in order, she told him who the Rheumatologist was, and he said something > like "oh, yeah, the guy who's been sending me faxes about you and I've been > ignoring". > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On 2022-08-09 21:52, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: I’m convinced it’s the way to go, especially for someone with a lot of health issues. I can’t count the number of doctors Mrs. Dan sees for her various health issues, and I realize that no one doctor could address it all, but to have one that gets the “big picture” I believe is far more important that seeing a bunch of disparate practitioners. At one time, my parents' rheumatologist had taken over that function, and managed their multiple drugs and interactions. Their old GP resented the hell out of it, when it was his incompetence that forced the specialist to take over the general functions. The new GP, same guy I use now, had no problem with the arrangement. When we were trying to get a diagnosis for mom's Giant Cell Arteritis before she went blind or died, she got referred to a teaching brain specialist at MSU. When he mentioned that a rheumatology consult might be in order, she told him who the Rheumatologist was, and he said something like "oh, yeah, the guy who's been sending me faxes about you and I've been ignoring". ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On 2022-08-09 22:36, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: That is the role I see a primary care doctor and sort of overseeing the big picture from all the separate specialist. Instead mine won’t hear any of it. All he does is read off previous test results then order new test results. Not a great situation when you seem to have ongoing issues which don't have an obvious solution if nobody's organizing a coherent search for the solution. You ever get everything resolved? Seems like you had some progress on the cardiac stuff. At least my Doc was doing his best when I had running diarrhea for over a year. But there were some errors. He ran the standard tests, which all came back negative, then ordered a colonoscopy, which came back normal, then sent me to a specialist, who told me the first thing he wanted was a colonoscopy, but a special one looking for specific digestive issues rather than the general cancer screening which I just had. Eventually I figured out for myself that I had lost the ability to digest certain fats, like for instance, potato chips. Zero chips, not more than a few pretzels, no more backwards vomiting and no more Imodium. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
That is the role I see a primary care doctor and sort of overseeing the big picture from all the separate specialist. Instead mine won’t hear any of it. All he does is read off previous test results then order new test results. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:52 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > I’m convinced it’s the way to go, especially for someone with a lot of > health issues. I can’t count the number of doctors Mrs. Dan sees for her > various health issues, and I realize that no one doctor could address it all, > but to have one that gets the “big picture” I believe is far more important > that seeing a bunch of disparate practitioners. > > -D > >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> Interesting. Maybe I should try to find something like that around here. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:44 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >>> >>> HAH! >>> >>> I got that one a few years back from my internist. I immediately turned it >>> on him and asked him if he had any firearms in his house (I know he does, >>> he belongs to my sporting clays club.) >>> >>> He moved on. >>> >>> Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A concierge >>> practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple health issues, >>> as she would actually get time to spend with a practitioner who could >>> discuss everything in detail without being rushed or having to worry about >>> getting to the patient in the next exam room. >>> >>> The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like $150/month, no >>> copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their own prescriptions >>> through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay that with FSA funds and >>> consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. >>> >>> -D >>> > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes > wrote: > > On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because > the triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling > centered” Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck with nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as beholden to big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for improved health than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and injections. Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 02:15:42 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes" wrote: > Thanks, Craig. > > The physicians I was looking at in Flagstaff have a practice that’s set > up using this model. They’re not part of the “wedge”, but the business > model they use is quite similar. That is good to hear. I do not know what it takes/costs to "Join the Wedge", but if you happen to think of it in your dealings with them, you might mention it. That might get them more visibility in the area. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Thanks, Craig. The physicians I was looking at in Flagstaff have a practice that’s set up using this model. They’re not part of the “wedge”, but the business model they use is quite similar. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 10:03 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 01:43:23 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes" > wrote: > >> Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A >> concierge practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple >> health issues, as she would actually get time to spend with a >> practitioner who could discuss everything in detail without being >> rushed or having to worry about getting to the patient in the next exam >> room. >> >> The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like >> $150/month, no copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their >> own prescriptions through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay >> that with FSA funds and consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. > > > The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom (https://www.cchfreedom.org/) > has started an "organization" called The Wedge of Health Freedom > (https://jointhewedge.com/). It is still in the starting stages, so there > are not too many places with providers. > > It explains itself at https://jointhewedge.com/faq/ (which I won't quote > in its entirety so I will have a shorter email). It starts out, > >Q: What is The Wedge of Health Freedom? > >A: The Wedge of Health Freedom (“The Wedge”) is a nationwide > disruptive innovation for health care initiated by the Citizens’ > Council for Health Freedom to restore the caring heart, ethical > principles, affordability and patient-centered focus of medicine in > America. Using The Wedge, CCHF will advance a new vision of medical > care for patients and doctors — a vision of patient-friendly, > price-friendly and privacy-friendly medical care. > > and continues. > > You can see if there is a provider near you at > https://jointhewedge.com/find-a-practice/ > There are several in Arizona, but they are near Phoenix. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 01:43:23 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes" wrote: > Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A > concierge practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple > health issues, as she would actually get time to spend with a > practitioner who could discuss everything in detail without being > rushed or having to worry about getting to the patient in the next exam > room. > > The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like > $150/month, no copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their > own prescriptions through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay > that with FSA funds and consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom (https://www.cchfreedom.org/) has started an "organization" called The Wedge of Health Freedom (https://jointhewedge.com/). It is still in the starting stages, so there are not too many places with providers. It explains itself at https://jointhewedge.com/faq/ (which I won't quote in its entirety so I will have a shorter email). It starts out, Q: What is The Wedge of Health Freedom? A: The Wedge of Health Freedom (“The Wedge”) is a nationwide disruptive innovation for health care initiated by the Citizens’ Council for Health Freedom to restore the caring heart, ethical principles, affordability and patient-centered focus of medicine in America. Using The Wedge, CCHF will advance a new vision of medical care for patients and doctors — a vision of patient-friendly, price-friendly and privacy-friendly medical care. and continues. You can see if there is a provider near you at https://jointhewedge.com/find-a-practice/ There are several in Arizona, but they are near Phoenix. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I will say that I don’t recall being asked this in the recent past. When my doctor asked it was probably 4-5 years ago, at least. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:51 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 01:26:31 + Rick Knoble via Mercedes > wrote: > >>> On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went >>> because the triage nurse goes through all of these questions about >>> “feeling centered” >> >> Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. > > Obamacare explicitly states (somewhere in its 2700 pages) they are not > allowed to ask that. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I’m convinced it’s the way to go, especially for someone with a lot of health issues. I can’t count the number of doctors Mrs. Dan sees for her various health issues, and I realize that no one doctor could address it all, but to have one that gets the “big picture” I believe is far more important that seeing a bunch of disparate practitioners. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > Interesting. Maybe I should try to find something like that around here. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:44 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> HAH! >> >> I got that one a few years back from my internist. I immediately turned it >> on him and asked him if he had any firearms in his house (I know he does, he >> belongs to my sporting clays club.) >> >> He moved on. >> >> Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A concierge >> practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple health issues, >> as she would actually get time to spend with a practitioner who could >> discuss everything in detail without being rushed or having to worry about >> getting to the patient in the next exam room. >> >> The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like $150/month, no >> copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their own prescriptions >> through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay that with FSA funds and >> consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. >> >> -D >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote: On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered” >>> >>> Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. >>> >>> Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck >>> with nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as >>> beholden to big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for >>> improved health than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and >>> injections. >>> >>> Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. >>> >>> BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. >>> >>> >>> Rick >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 01:26:31 + Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote: > > On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went > > because the triage nurse goes through all of these questions about > > “feeling centered” > > Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. Obamacare explicitly states (somewhere in its 2700 pages) they are not allowed to ask that. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Just for clarification, I have no problem at all with nurse practitioners or physicians assistants, and I think your points are well taken in that regard. My gripe with our soon to be former practice was that we were assigned to and worked with a doctor for our care. When our doctor left we were no longer assigned to a doctor, but an APRN. Understand that if we wanted to see our doctor it took some time to get in, but for immediate care we saw an APRN or PA within 24-48 hours - who would consult with our doctor about our care, if necessary. And I also agree with your point about self-care. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes > wrote: > >> On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the >> triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered” > > Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. > > Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck with > nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as beholden to > big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for improved health > than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and injections. > > Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. > > BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. > > > Rick > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Interesting. Maybe I should try to find something like that around here. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:44 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > HAH! > > I got that one a few years back from my internist. I immediately turned it on > him and asked him if he had any firearms in his house (I know he does, he > belongs to my sporting clays club.) > > He moved on. > > Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A concierge > practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple health issues, > as she would actually get time to spend with a practitioner who could discuss > everything in detail without being rushed or having to worry about getting to > the patient in the next exam room. > > The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like $150/month, no > copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their own prescriptions > through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay that with FSA funds and > consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. > > -D > >>> On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the >>> triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered” >> >> Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. >> >> Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck with >> nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as beholden >> to big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for improved >> health than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and injections. >> >> Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. >> >> BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. >> >> >> Rick >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
HAH! I got that one a few years back from my internist. I immediately turned it on him and asked him if he had any firearms in his house (I know he does, he belongs to my sporting clays club.) He moved on. Mrs. Dan sees a bunch of different doctors for various things. A concierge practice would be perfect for someone like her with multiple health issues, as she would actually get time to spend with a practitioner who could discuss everything in detail without being rushed or having to worry about getting to the patient in the next exam room. The one I looked at in Flagstaff was pretty reasonable, like $150/month, no copays and they took insurance and filled a lot of their own prescriptions through a deal they have with a local pharmacy. Pay that with FSA funds and consider no copays and it’s even cheaper. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes > wrote: > >> On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the >> triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered” > > Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. > > Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck with > nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as beholden to > big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for improved health > than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and injections. > > Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. > > BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. > > > Rick > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
See, this is what’s so crazy… When I was coming back from Flagstaff back in June, my left ear never opened up or “popped” when we landed in Tampa. It stayed that way for a good week. I went to see the internist’s practice ARNP, who looked at my ear, told me to take some antihistamines for a week and all would be well. That visit of maybe five minutes, if that, was billed to my insurer for $370.00. They dd their negotiated discount down to $200 and change, paid most of it, and I was left with a $30 bill PLUS a copay of $20 I paid at the visit. Fast forward to August. My ear is still not open. I’ve lost some of my hearing in the ear as a result. As my insurance just kicked in August 1st, I asked my dentist to recommend a good ENT. He gave me a referral. I called up the practice last Friday, explained my situation and on Monday I got an appointment - not with the ENT himself, but an ARNP in the practice. Fine, I’ll start with the second string so I can work my way up, I’m perfectly fine with that. In less than a minute or two she confirmed that yes, my eustachian tube was clearly blocked for some reason and she wrote a script for an antibiotic and a steroid I’ve got to take for two weeks, after which she’s seeing me for a follow up. I haven’t seen the bill yet, but my copay was $50 since it’s a specialist. So why couldn’t the ARNP at my internist’s practice have done this? And yes, I understand the pitfalls of socialized medicine, but it’s got to be better than the system we have now. Look at the number of people who are financially crippled due to medical debt. When Mrs. Dan has gone in for surgeries to address her cancer why does the admissions desk have a little sign that says, “If you don’t have insurance you can get a 50% discount on the bill if you pay within 30 days. Or pay in 15 days and get a 60% discount!” What does that tell you about the “business”? Grrr. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 9:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > Sounds like it's time for a new doctor... > > I waited 3 months for an appointment with an ENT. I've had sinus headaches > every day or two since September. Two weeks ago the ENT guy takes a look in > my ears, up my nose and down my throat (guess he was doing his job) and sent > me off for a CT scan. That was yesterday, I got the results today which > basically say I have a sinus infection. I suspect he'll give me some > antibiotics. > > -Curt > > On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 07:15:14 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The spouse > has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. Has a virus > and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an IV and just > gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care doctor. She > started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the huge > dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to review > certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So you are in > a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you would need to > make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would seem to this > recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a wellness visit. I > use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my neck problems, or > anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to discuss it, only > what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
> On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the > triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered” Wait until they are forced to ask if you have any firearms in the house. Concierge medicine is probably the way to go. I have had real good luck with nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They don't seem as beholden to big pharma as MDs and are more open to lifestyle changes for improved health than a burning desire to pump one full of pills and injections. Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own well-being. BTW, Medicare is bankrupt in two to three years. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I read an interesting article a while back that all these skyrocketing costs over the years are a direct result of Medicare. When that started the medical industries full time job is extracting as much money out of it as they can which in turn has spread to everyone, not just those on Medicare. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:14 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes > wrote: > > >> >> as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the >> patient. > > As long as the patient isn't the one paying for it, you're right. > > Profit isn't the problem. The problem is that some insurance company (or > Medicare, or Medicaid) is paying or it, so the doctors have to dance to their > tune, not yours. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On 2022-08-09 21:09, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: This is also why I’m all for socialized medicine. It’s far from perfect, but as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the patient. This is one reason why I oppose socialized medicine. I know of no country with socialized medicine that centers its focus on the patient's well being, or provides essential services in a timely manner. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Yes every time you go the doctor here they want you to fill out that stupid form, and also about guns in the house. None of their business. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 8:04 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > Both the wife and I have seen an internist that was part of a local medical > practice we’ve gone to for over 25 years. Last year, one of the big local > health care conglomerates (Advent Health) bought them out. Our internist left > the practice to teach. So now we no longer have a primary care physician, we > have an APRN (physician’s assistant) who sees us. We told the practice > manager we wanted to be assigned to another doctor in the practice and they > said they couldn’t, and that we would now be under this APRN. No choice - > don’t like it, leave. > > So we decide to change to another provider, a local clinic that’s part of > another local medical conglomerate, Bay Care. We get to see a “real” doctor > there, but first and foremost we have to have a “wellness visit” before we > can be seen for anything else, like an annual physical. > > I get a substantial discount on my employer’s health insurance for getting an > annual physical and blood work. The new place can’t do a physical until I > have my “wellness visit”, which can’t be scheduled until November - I tried > scheduling this in July! After that’s done, I can get a physical, likely not > until after the first of the year, which would not qualify for my discount (I > have to have it done in the calendar year.) > > So I’m going to the APRN for my blood work and physical because I can get in > next month. After that, in November I have my wellness visit and I’m in good > graces with the new place. > > It’s just so stupid, and I have to believe it’s driven by nothing more than > money. > > On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the > triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered”, > “Do you feel safe in your home?” and mental health stuff. I told her to stuff > it, and that I wouldn’t answer any of it because it was none of their > business. I felt it was really intrusive, and they play it up like it’s some > sort of holistic “mind and body” garbage. She told me if I didn’t answer they > couldn’t see me. I asked her what value it would have if I wasn’t telling the > truth to begin with. Then I answered the questions. > > Sorry for the language, but it’s bullshit. Total bullshit. I am so glad I am > in good health and I rarely have to deal with these people. Mrs. Dan is just > as infuriated, but she plays along to get the care she wants/needs. > > -D > >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 7:14 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The spouse >> has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. Has a >> virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an IV and >> just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care doctor. >> She started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the huge >> dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to >> review certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So >> you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you >> would need to make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would >> seem to this recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a >> wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my >> neck problems, or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to >> discuss it, only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
> as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the > patient. As long as the patient isn't the one paying for it, you're right. Profit isn't the problem. The problem is that some insurance company (or Medicare, or Medicaid) is paying or it, so the doctors have to dance to their tune, not yours. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Sounds like it's time for a new doctor... I waited 3 months for an appointment with an ENT. I've had sinus headaches every day or two since September. Two weeks ago the ENT guy takes a look in my ears, up my nose and down my throat (guess he was doing his job) and sent me off for a CT scan. That was yesterday, I got the results today which basically say I have a sinus infection. I suspect he'll give me some antibiotics. -Curt On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 07:15:14 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an IV and just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to review certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you would need to make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would seem to this recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my neck problems, or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to discuss it, only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Medical coding, known in the business as “HICPIC” codes, is nothing new, but yes, the insurers are becoming far more regimented about how practitioners see/bill patients. I’m seriously considering going to a practitioner that is a “concierge” doctor. There are a couple in Flagstaff, and it’s a great business model that is patient-centered, not dollar centered. It’s not that much more expensive than seeing a “regular” doctor. This is also why I’m all for socialized medicine. It’s far from perfect, but as long as medicine involves profits, it will never be centered on the patient. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 7:57 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > Most likely a result of the insurance payment schemes. Each visit is > identified by a code - which dictates what insurance will pay. Two codes > for one visit wil be identified as fraud by the insurance co., making it > not feasible for the doctor to do that. You need an appointment for the > specific thing you want treated/looked at. > > Bottom line, the for-profit healthcare model sucks big time. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The >> spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. >> Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an >> IV and just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care >> doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the >> huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to >> review certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So >> you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you >> would need to make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would >> seem to this recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a >> wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my >> neck problems, or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to >> discuss it, only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > "Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you > are wearing." > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Both the wife and I have seen an internist that was part of a local medical practice we’ve gone to for over 25 years. Last year, one of the big local health care conglomerates (Advent Health) bought them out. Our internist left the practice to teach. So now we no longer have a primary care physician, we have an APRN (physician’s assistant) who sees us. We told the practice manager we wanted to be assigned to another doctor in the practice and they said they couldn’t, and that we would now be under this APRN. No choice - don’t like it, leave. So we decide to change to another provider, a local clinic that’s part of another local medical conglomerate, Bay Care. We get to see a “real” doctor there, but first and foremost we have to have a “wellness visit” before we can be seen for anything else, like an annual physical. I get a substantial discount on my employer’s health insurance for getting an annual physical and blood work. The new place can’t do a physical until I have my “wellness visit”, which can’t be scheduled until November - I tried scheduling this in July! After that’s done, I can get a physical, likely not until after the first of the year, which would not qualify for my discount (I have to have it done in the calendar year.) So I’m going to the APRN for my blood work and physical because I can get in next month. After that, in November I have my wellness visit and I’m in good graces with the new place. It’s just so stupid, and I have to believe it’s driven by nothing more than money. On a related note, I nearly got kicked out the last time I went because the triage nurse goes through all of these questions about “feeling centered”, “Do you feel safe in your home?” and mental health stuff. I told her to stuff it, and that I wouldn’t answer any of it because it was none of their business. I felt it was really intrusive, and they play it up like it’s some sort of holistic “mind and body” garbage. She told me if I didn’t answer they couldn’t see me. I asked her what value it would have if I wasn’t telling the truth to begin with. Then I answered the questions. Sorry for the language, but it’s bullshit. Total bullshit. I am so glad I am in good health and I rarely have to deal with these people. Mrs. Dan is just as infuriated, but she plays along to get the care she wants/needs. -D > On Aug 9, 2022, at 7:14 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The spouse > has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. Has a virus > and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an IV and just > gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care doctor. She > started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the huge > dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to review > certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So you are in > a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you would need to > make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would seem to this > recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a wellness visit. I > use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my neck problems, or > anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to discuss it, only > what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 19:33:09 -0500 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: > Yea, but the doctor would not refill her prescriptions without the well > visit. So she could have done that but then would not have got her > refills done. For a Medicare Wellness Exam, all you are allowed to talk about is wellness. But to have a doctor who won't refill prescriptions without it is poor. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Yea, but the doctor would not refill her prescriptions without the well visit. So she could have done that but then would not have got her refills done. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2022, at 6:55 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes > wrote: > > I think it's all billing related. > If they schedule an annual check-up, and want to get paid for an annual > checkup, then that's what they have to do during that appointment. > Maybe she could have said "I'm sick, can we reschedule my physical for later > and save me from dehydration and illness today instead?" > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
my doctor is wonderful. been going to him 20 years. he really cares about my health . plus he grew riding in 123 diesels. On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 7:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The > spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. > Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an > IV and just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care > doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the > huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to > review certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So > you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you > would need to make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would > seem to this recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a > wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my > neck problems, or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to > discuss it, only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Most likely a result of the insurance payment schemes. Each visit is identified by a code - which dictates what insurance will pay. Two codes for one visit wil be identified as fraud by the insurance co., making it not feasible for the doctor to do that. You need an appointment for the specific thing you want treated/looked at. Bottom line, the for-profit healthcare model sucks big time. On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The > spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER Sunday. > Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. Could not get an > IV and just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit with our primary care > doctor. She started to discuss the test results etc from the visit and the > huge dehydration problem but he cut her off and said this visit was only to > review certain things. Basically just going over the most basic items. So > you are in a doctors office and they ignore a glaring illness and say you > would need to make a sick visit rather than this wellness visit? It would > seem to this recent issue should be addressed on any visit including a > wellness visit. I use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my > neck problems, or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to > discuss it, only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you are wearing." "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
I think it's all billing related. If they schedule an annual check-up, and want to get paid for an annual checkup, then that's what they have to do during that appointment. Maybe she could have said "I'm sick, can we reschedule my physical for later and save me from dehydration and illness today instead?" ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT doctors
Hard to discuss without getting into politics. I have a very cynical opinion on health care, and I avoid doctors unless I have acute symptoms. I don't really blame the doctors, I blame the big health orgs and complex regulations that have made it virtually impossible for a doctor or small group to run a private practice. On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, at 19:14, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: > What do you think about doctors these days? Are they all idiots? The > spouse has been sick for a week, to the point she went to the ER > Sunday. Has a virus and very dehydrated. ER basically did nothing. > Could not get an IV and just gave up. Today she had a “wellness” visit > with our primary care doctor. She started to discuss the test results > etc from the visit and the huge dehydration problem but he cut her off > and said this visit was only to review certain things. Basically just > going over the most basic items. So you are in a doctors office and > they ignore a glaring illness and say you would need to make a sick > visit rather than this wellness visit? It would seem to this recent > issue should be addressed on any visit including a wellness visit. I > use the same doctor and anytime I want to ask about my neck problems, > or anything related to my blood thinners he doesn’t want to discuss it, > only what is on his simpleton agenda for the day. > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Why is it scary to you, Randy? Would you prefer a candidate who would be comfortable keeping us in Iraq indefinitely and maybe also declaring war on Iran? Would you favor an experienced candidate with lousy policies to an idealistic but less experienced one who has a good head and good ideas? Disclaimer: I am no fan of the Iranian regime but would support an anonymous surgical strike to take out their nuclear capability if that wouldn't lead to an all-out conflagration. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:13 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this the opposite. We hear references to Obama as the black John Kennedy. Either he, or a smart advisor has put him on the road to the top by speaking fairly eloquently about change. America is in a bit of a rough spot at the moment so change sells big time. He may not be able to pull it off and he may not even want to deep down, but talking about it may make him the next President. Scary stuff. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:00 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Just generally scary that we have a difficult time attracting really good people to public office and often cannot trust the one's who do volunteer to have the best interests of the people at heart. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Why is it scary to you, Randy? Would you prefer a candidate who would be comfortable keeping us in Iraq indefinitely and maybe also declaring war on Iran? Would you favor an experienced candidate with lousy policies to an idealistic but less experienced one who has a good head and good ideas? Disclaimer: I am no fan of the Iranian regime but would support an anonymous surgical strike to take out their nuclear capability if that wouldn't lead to an all-out conflagration. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:13 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this the opposite. We hear references to Obama as the black John Kennedy. Either he, or a smart advisor has put him on the road to the top by speaking fairly eloquently about change. America is in a bit of a rough spot at the moment so change sells big time. He may not be able to pull it off and he may not even want to deep down, but talking about it may make him the next President. Scary stuff. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:00 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Rich Thomas wrote: Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. The way the medical establishment dealt with the mentally challenged in the 1930s and 40s was mind boggling when viewed from a modern point of view. Back then parents never questioned their doctors, like the doctors who shoved radioactive materials up my brother's nose in the 1960's. I forget exactly what they were trying to kill, but they killed it and then some. Seems like they were treating him for hyperthyroidism or other glandular excess. He's sure got thyroid problems now. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
You wrote abut the Kennedys had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. *That* would certainly explain a lot!No wonder Teddy had such problems. But a lobotomey explains a lot - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Another aspect to it is that old Joe had one of the first long distance telephone lines in Boston. He could get breaking news from his politicians about what votes had been cast, then call up his NY people and buy/sell stocks based on that info, and make lots of money before anyone else knew what was happening. Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. --R LarryT wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
There seems to be a pretty good Wiki on Rose Marie Kennedy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
It would be a shame if preventive medicine ended up killing you. -Dave Walton On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:48 AM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember those xray machines the show stores used to use? Anyone could walk up and slide their feet into the machine - and a picture of the bone structire of the feet were readily viewable. Now there's fear those x-rays caused a lot of problems. Radioactivity was a whole new thing back then. It still causes problems. Some people say a chest x-ray every year is a bigger problem than everyone realizes. Supposedly, the Xrays are cumlative and so may x-rays cause lots of problems. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Rich Thomas wrote: Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. The way the medical establishment dealt with the mentally challenged in the 1930s and 40s was mind boggling when viewed from a modern point of view. Back then parents never questioned their doctors, like the doctors who shoved radioactive materials up my brother's nose in the 1960's. I forget exactly what they were trying to kill, but they killed it and then some. Seems like they were treating him for hyperthyroidism or other glandular excess. He's sure got thyroid problems now. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
IIRC, the main problem with those shoe x-ray machines was the store employees that used them every day. One salesman used to manipulate the foot/shoe inside the machine. Bone cancer in his right hand IIRC. Mitch. LarryT wrote: Remember those xray machines the show stores used to use? Anyone could walk up and slide their feet into the machine - and a picture of the bone structire of the feet were readily viewable. Now there's fear those x-rays caused a lot of problems. Radioactivity was a whole new thing back then. It still causes problems. Some people say a chest x-ray every year is a bigger problem than everyone realizes. Supposedly, the Xrays are cumlative and so may x-rays cause lots of problems. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Rich Thomas wrote: Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. The way the medical establishment dealt with the mentally challenged in the 1930s and 40s was mind boggling when viewed from a modern point of view. Back then parents never questioned their doctors, like the doctors who shoved radioactive materials up my brother's nose in the 1960's. I forget exactly what they were trying to kill, but they killed it and then some. Seems like they were treating him for hyperthyroidism or other glandular excess. He's sure got thyroid problems now. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Remember those xray machines the show stores used to use? Anyone could walk up and slide their feet into the machine - and a picture of the bone structire of the feet were readily viewable. Now there's fear those x-rays caused a lot of problems. Radioactivity was a whole new thing back then. It still causes problems. Some people say a chest x-ray every year is a bigger problem than everyone realizes. Supposedly, the Xrays are cumlative and so may x-rays cause lots of problems. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Rich Thomas wrote: Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. The way the medical establishment dealt with the mentally challenged in the 1930s and 40s was mind boggling when viewed from a modern point of view. Back then parents never questioned their doctors, like the doctors who shoved radioactive materials up my brother's nose in the 1960's. I forget exactly what they were trying to kill, but they killed it and then some. Seems like they were treating him for hyperthyroidism or other glandular excess. He's sure got thyroid problems now. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
John F and his older brother were at least officers in the military, that is as close to a real job any kennedy has had since Joe made gazillions as a criminal. At 04:54 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Isn't this the opposite. We hear references to Obama as the black John Kennedy. Either he, or a smart advisor has put him on the road to the top by speaking fairly eloquently about change. America is in a bit of a rough spot at the moment so change sells big time. He may not be able to pull it off and he may not even want to deep down, but talking about it may make him the next President. Scary stuff. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:00 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Osama Obama (ted kennedy quote) says nothing, but says it so eloquently that the sheeple swoon. At 02:13 PM 4/7/2008, you wrote: Isn't this the opposite. We hear references to Obama as the black John Kennedy. Either he, or a smart advisor has put him on the road to the top by speaking fairly eloquently about change. America is in a bit of a rough spot at the moment so change sells big time. He may not be able to pull it off and he may not even want to deep down, but talking about it may make him the next President. Scary stuff. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:00 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
jack earned a congressional medal of honor as well in the pacific and they don't just give those out no matter who your daddy is. (i think i'm right on that. correct me if i'm wrong) On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John F and his older brother were at least officers in the military, that is as close to a real job any kennedy has had since Joe made gazillions as a criminal. At 04:54 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Son Joe Jr. was a pilot on a highly secret experimental mission when his B-24 blew up. Both Joe JR, and John F. did their jobs as officers. I have high respect for both. But the point was that no Kennedy ever had a real job or ever had to meet a payroll. Old Joe was a bootlegger and a criminal. The boys grew up as privileged offspring of a gangster. Because ol Joe was never named public enemy #!1, Kennedys are revered while any offspring of Capone would be reviled. No Medal of Honor. BZZZT Wrong. Kennedy was awarded the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_and_Marine_Corps_MedalNavy and Marine Corps Medal for his lifesaving actions following the collision; it was established in 1941 for lifesaving actions at risk of the person's own life but not involving actual combat.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109#cite_note-20[21] A few in the military, including http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Fitzgeraldaction=editredlink=1Andrew Fitzgerald, thought he should have faced a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-martialcourt-martial instead for losing his boat in such a manner. It was thought by many such a quick and maneuverable craft should have been able to escape a collision with a slower enemy craft, though fellow skippers would point out a PT could not accelerate quickly under such circumstances. During his presidency, Kennedy privately admitted to friends he didn't feel he deserved the medals he had received, because the PT-109 incident had been the result of a botched military operation that had cost the lives of two members of his crew. When asked by interviewers how he became a war hero, Kennedy's grim reply was, It was involuntary. They sank my boat. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109 YMMV At 03:44 PM 4/7/2008, you wrote: jack earned a congressional medal of honor as well in the pacific and they don't just give those out no matter who your daddy is. (i think i'm right on that. correct me if i'm wrong) On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John F and his older brother were at least officers in the military, that is as close to a real job any kennedy has had since Joe made gazillions as a criminal. At 04:54 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Gary, A correction: No Congressional Medal of Honor for Jack Kennedy From:http://www.historyplace.com/kennedy/warhero.htm l in Massachusetts. Jack had also received the Purple Heart. Later June 12, 1944 - The presentation of the Navy and Marine Corps Medal for Gallantry in Action to Lt. John F. Kennedy during a simple ceremony at Chelsea Naval hospital in Massachusetts. Jack had also received the Purple Heart.. Chuck - Phoenix AZ On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Gary Hurst wrote: jack earned a congressional medal of honor as well in the pacific and they don't just give those out no matter who your daddy is. (i think i'm right on that. correct me if i'm wrong) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
and a true hero is always marked by modesty i think more than anything young teddy and his manifest flaws have tainted the family name. teddy appears to simply be a POS but i still hold joe, jr, jack and bobby in high esteem. maybe i'm just a dupe of the propaganda machine, but that's just how i've felt for as long as i can remember. i also revere washington and hamilton and madison and, apart from his treatment of the native peoples, andrew jackson as well. and jefferson davis and lee and stonewall jackson. and even have a soft spot in my heart for grant, even though he fought on the wrong side. and teddy roosevelt and harry truman. and nelson rockefeller and barry goldwater (strange bedfellows indeed!). and, at the risk of being laughed at, george mcgovern and ronald reagan (stranger bedfellows!) all heroes to me On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Son Joe Jr. was a pilot on a highly secret experimental mission when his B-24 blew up. Both Joe JR, and John F. did their jobs as officers. I have high respect for both. But the point was that no Kennedy ever had a real job or ever had to meet a payroll. Old Joe was a bootlegger and a criminal. The boys grew up as privileged offspring of a gangster. Because ol Joe was never named public enemy #!1, Kennedys are revered while any offspring of Capone would be reviled. No Medal of Honor. BZZZT Wrong. Kennedy was awarded the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_and_Marine_Corps_MedalNavy and Marine Corps Medal for his lifesaving actions following the collision; it was established in 1941 for lifesaving actions at risk of the person's own life but not involving actual combat.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109#cite_note-20[21] A few in the military, including http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Fitzgeraldaction=editredlink=1 Andrew Fitzgerald, thought he should have faced a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-martialcourt-martial instead for losing his boat in such a manner. It was thought by many such a quick and maneuverable craft should have been able to escape a collision with a slower enemy craft, though fellow skippers would point out a PT could not accelerate quickly under such circumstances. During his presidency, Kennedy privately admitted to friends he didn't feel he deserved the medals he had received, because the PT-109 incident had been the result of a botched military operation that had cost the lives of two members of his crew. When asked by interviewers how he became a war hero, Kennedy's grim reply was, It was involuntary. They sank my boat. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109 YMMV At 03:44 PM 4/7/2008, you wrote: jack earned a congressional medal of honor as well in the pacific and they don't just give those out no matter who your daddy is. (i think i'm right on that. correct me if i'm wrong) On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John F and his older brother were at least officers in the military, that is as close to a real job any kennedy has had since Joe made gazillions as a criminal. At 04:54 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
It wouldn't be the first time, nor the last --- On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 8:54 AM, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be a shame if preventive medicine ended up killing you. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Loren wroteIt was thought by many such a quick and maneuverable craft should have been able to escape a collision Until someone is on the dark waters offshore it is impossible to understand how truly *Dark* it can be out there. With the PT boat idling while waiting for the next commands, it would have been impossible to hear the destroyer coming. Things happen in the middle of the Pacific that can be hard to understand. I'm not a fan of the Kennedy's, but what JFK did during the night and days following the collision were truely heroic. He may have thought otherwise, but carrying a crewman to safety on an island by gripping the straps of his lifejacket in his teeth was nothing short of amazing he deserved the medals he was awarded. Plus, that's where his back was badly hurt. So he had back pain on top of everything else - Joe Kennedys flight was on a bomber filled with explosives - some say B17 others say B24 - it was to be radio controlled and at a point the pilot (Kennedy) co-pilot would bail out and then the radio controllers woud take over. SOmething went wrong during the change from manual flight to RC flight something went wrong - no one knows for sure but a spark would have done it or something in the controllers. Anyway - it went Boom before anyone got out and there was little left. Joe was being groomed for the presidency at this point and when this happend the focus shifted to JFK. Thank goodness they didn't decide to push Ted for president. ;-( Lots of sadness in that family - along with money - doubt it was worth it. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Son Joe Jr. was a pilot on a highly secret experimental mission when his B-24 blew up. Both Joe JR, and John F. did their jobs as officers. I have high respect for both. But the point was that no Kennedy ever had a real job or ever had to meet a payroll. Old Joe was a bootlegger and a criminal. The boys grew up as privileged offspring of a gangster. Because ol Joe was never named public enemy #!1, Kennedys are revered while any offspring of Capone would be reviled. No Medal of Honor. BZZZT Wrong. Kennedy was awarded the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_and_Marine_Corps_MedalNavy and Marine Corps Medal for his lifesaving actions following the collision; it was established in 1941 for lifesaving actions at risk of the person's own life but not involving actual combat.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109#cite_note-20[21] A few in the military, including http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Fitzgeraldaction=editredlink=1Andrew Fitzgerald, thought he should have faced a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-martialcourt-martial instead for losing his boat in such a manner. It was thought by many such a quick and maneuverable craft should have been able to escape a collision with a slower enemy craft, though fellow skippers would point out a PT could not accelerate quickly under such circumstances. During his presidency, Kennedy privately admitted to friends he didn't feel he deserved the medals he had received, because the PT-109 incident had been the result of a botched military operation that had cost the lives of two members of his crew. When asked by interviewers how he became a war hero, Kennedy's grim reply was, It was involuntary. They sank my boat. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-109 YMMV At 03:44 PM 4/7/2008, you wrote: jack earned a congressional medal of honor as well in the pacific and they don't just give those out no matter who your daddy is. (i think i'm right on that. correct me if i'm wrong) On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John F and his older brother were at least officers in the military, that is as close to a real job any kennedy has had since Joe made gazillions as a criminal. At 04:54 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
But the point was that no Kennedy ever had a real job or ever had to meet a payroll. Old Joe was a bootlegger and a criminal. Not a real job, but I'm sure old Joe had to meet a payroll - his goons wouldn't work for him if he didn't pay them. Because ol Joe was never named public enemy #!1, Kennedys are revered while any offspring of Capone would be reviled. How true! -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
LarryT wrote: Thank goodness they didn't decide to push Ted for president. ;-( He ran against a seated Democrat in 1980. James Earl In the interest of party unity, I promise not to use the word Chappaquiddick in this campaign Carter. (gee Jimmy, I think you just said the word you claimed you weren't using) Mitch. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Greetings and Salutations. At 10:33 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. I'm sure that he sent a lot of people to the moon , mostly women. I'm not sure that it was such a great feat. A space station would have been a better first step, but as usual political ego's won out. Having been fascinated all of my life by all things to do with space I can see where we have miss-stepped. 20-20 hind-sight. Rant off. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel this and diesel that.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
LarryT wrote: Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. He was an assistant district attorney for a year or two. Refused all but $1 a year of pay. Wags still claimed he was overpaid. DA couldn't assign cases to him, he only did what he wanted to do. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Another aspect to it is that old Joe had one of the first long distance telephone lines in Boston. He could get breaking news from his politicians about what votes had been cast, then call up his NY people and buy/sell stocks based on that info, and make lots of money before anyone else knew what was happening. Then there was the retarded daughter he had lobotomized because she was too much of a distraction some think he shouldn't have stopped with her, or maybe he didn't. --R LarryT wrote: I'm sure everyone knows how the Kennedy fortune was made? Running Rum during prohibition - same way A Capone got his start. But the Kennedy clan managed to stay low key and avoid the publicity of illegal activity. ONce that dies down they decided politics would be the next neat illegal activity to make a lot of money in. Has T Kennedy *ever* held a real job? course not. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB OK Don wrote: He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. Tell me more, as a Senator or as President? I always wondered why Cape Canaveral got renamed Cape Kennedy. Seems like the space race was already well underway by January 20, 1961, and he died in 1963, long before we reached the moon. I can remember when somebody was talking about how The Godfather was keeping Mikey clean and wanted him to be President someday, and speculated that someday a guy from a mob family might actually grow up to be President, in a life imitating art sort of way. I told him we'd been there and done that, as of 1-20-1961. Took him a while to catch on. BTW, can you guess who this song is about? Eddie written by James Young, 1979 I woke up today, the papers spoke of a man we know He's made of the stuff they say that first made our country grow Living in style, traveling to distant lands Better hang tough, for now it's time to make your stand Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddie, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers Can we ignore the basic facts of history Or deny what people say is destiny First in the eighties but last of the sons First in the eyes of his countrymen I think the message is ever so loud and clear Eddie, now don't you run You know you're a bootlegger's son And you saw just what it's done to the others Eddïe, now don't you run It's the end of all your fun And you saw just what they've done To your brothers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Hi Randy - You wrote few would deny that John and Jackie Kennedy are among the most respected whitehouse couples Nope - not me at least. All that Camelot stuff came about from the press after JFK died and who's going to give a dead president a hard time once he's dead? Actually JFK wasnt in office that long - he *did* handle the Cuban missle crisis - after his Bay of Pigs fiasco made Fidel an enemy for all time Castro went to USSR for help - and they were eager to give it. And then there's that little Viet Nam thing - which he (it is said) intended for only observers to be in country and LBJ and his Great Society turned it into a festering wound - by restricting the military and trying to run the war from 5000 mies away. Wonder why it had trouble. Back to JFK - not really sure what his accomplishments were - or what he and the old ball and chain did to be seen as a respected couple? IIRC Mrs Kennedy (the wife not his mother) redecorated the WH. I guess compared to what others have spent that was minor - Larry - Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB However, few would deny that John and Jackie Kennedy are among the most respected whitehouse couples and the evidence now indicates he wasn't really much different than Bill. Just a different time and less respect from the press. Others have done similar - Bill just got caught and exposed. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Well I know if mine came unzipped I would not have the need, ability, or interest to unzip it again as the necessary means to carry through would be severely compromised. But, yes, personal responsibility is the key, and enforcement when it doesn't work, if it is important to the couple. There is also that little aspect that as president, everyone involved has a responsibility to live up to the honor of the office. In their case, it doesn't seem like fidelity and honor toward one another is a factor. Makes me wonder how someone(s) like that could have honor/respect in the office and respect to the American people they represent, but I think the answer to that is clear. In the Bill and Hill case, it was ongoing, so yeah, I think it was her responsibility to make sure it did not happen again and again and again when he was incapable of behaving responsibly, if for no other reason than family honor or consideration of their child, even if it wasn't his. And yes I think it is a spouse's job to keep the other from straying, by daily actions and behavior toward one another, not necessarily by constant oversight unless you got a Bill type to cover. You really have to work at it every day, and sometimes it is hard work to do so. --R Bill R wrote: Interesting that you feel it is your wife's job to keep your pants zipped. Is it also your job to keep her from other men? I always liked the idea of personal responsibility myself. BillR -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/4/08 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Hillary did a great job of keeping things (i.e., Slick's zipper) in the White House under control, I'm sure she will be able to run govt health care, when she is not dodging sniper fire. --R Rory wrote: In case you may have not noticed, the government already runs one health care organization, VA Anyone? Since they do such a stellar job with that oe, I'm sure they can handle the rest of the population. US Government health care, combining all the efficiency of the US Government, with all the compassion of the IRS!) Not ME! On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think things are bad now, wait until all the doctors are government employees. Allan -- 1983 300D Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not intentional I am sure, but errors from fatigue, guessing about the correct medication rather than looking it up, incorrect diagnosis, a slip during surgery - yes to those. I don't think that I would feel much better if I lost my spouse or a child to a medical mistake rather than a bullet. In fact, given the lingering death some medical errors cause, in some cases the bullet could be better. All things being equal [meaning you lose a loved one] errors vs evil intent might be easier to live
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Back to JFK - not really sure what his accomplishments were - or what he and the old ball and chain did to be seen as a respected couple? IIRC Mrs Kennedy (the wife not his mother) redecorated the WH. I guess compared to what others have spent that was minor I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. I was just being born at the time, so this is all retrospective on my part. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
He sent us to the moon -- can't be all bad. On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allan Streib wrote: I think that JFK was, as he said in his inaugural address, the first of a new generation to win the presidency. Born in this century, etc. He was young, and viewed as a break with the past, a fresh start, etc. In other words, a white Barak. Nothing of substance, but lots of feel good, and he spoke beautifully. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Well I know if mine came unzipped I would not have the need, ability, or interest to unzip it again as the necessary means to carry through would be severely compromised. But, yes, personal responsibility is the key, and enforcement when it doesn't work, if it is important to the couple. There is also that little aspect that as president, everyone involved has a responsibility to live up to the honor of the office. In their case, it doesn't seem like fidelity and honor toward one another is a factor. Makes me wonder how someone(s) like that could have honor/respect in the office and respect to the American people they represent, but I think the answer to that is clear. In the Bill and Hill case, it was ongoing, so yeah, I think it was her responsibility to make sure it did not happen again and again and again when he was incapable of behaving responsibly, if for no other reason than family honor or consideration of their child, even if it wasn't his. And yes I think it is a spouse's job to keep the other from straying, by daily actions and behavior toward one another, not necessarily by constant oversight unless you got a Bill type to cover. You really have to work at it every day, and sometimes it is hard work to do so. --R Bill R wrote: Interesting that you feel it is your wife's job to keep your pants zipped. Is it also your job to keep her from other men? I always liked the idea of personal responsibility myself. BillR -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/4/08 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Hillary did a great job of keeping things (i.e., Slick's zipper) in the White House under control, I'm sure she will be able to run govt health care, when she is not dodging sniper fire. --R Rory wrote: In case you may have not noticed, the government already runs one health care organization, VA Anyone? Since they do such a stellar job with that oe, I'm sure they can handle the rest of the population. US Government health care, combining all the efficiency of the US Government, with all the compassion of the IRS!) Not ME! On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think things are bad now, wait until all the doctors are government employees. Allan -- 1983 300D Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not intentional I am sure, but errors from fatigue, guessing about the correct medication rather than looking it up, incorrect diagnosis, a slip during surgery - yes to those. I don't think that I would feel much better if I lost my spouse or a child to a medical mistake rather than a bullet. In fact, given the lingering death some medical errors cause, in some cases the bullet could be better. All things being equal [meaning you lose a loved one] errors vs evil intent might be easier to live with, might not. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
However, few would deny that John and Jackie Kennedy are among the most respected whitehouse couples and the evidence now indicates he wasn't really much different than Bill. Just a different time and less respect from the press. Others have done similar - Bill just got caught and exposed. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Well I know if mine came unzipped I would not have the need, ability, or interest to unzip it again as the necessary means to carry through would be severely compromised. But, yes, personal responsibility is the key, and enforcement when it doesn't work, if it is important to the couple. There is also that little aspect that as president, everyone involved has a responsibility to live up to the honor of the office. In their case, it doesn't seem like fidelity and honor toward one another is a factor. Makes me wonder how someone(s) like that could have honor/respect in the office and respect to the American people they represent, but I think the answer to that is clear. In the Bill and Hill case, it was ongoing, so yeah, I think it was her responsibility to make sure it did not happen again and again and again when he was incapable of behaving responsibly, if for no other reason than family honor or consideration of their child, even if it wasn't his. And yes I think it is a spouse's job to keep the other from straying, by daily actions and behavior toward one another, not necessarily by constant oversight unless you got a Bill type to cover. You really have to work at it every day, and sometimes it is hard work to do so. --R Bill R wrote: Interesting that you feel it is your wife's job to keep your pants zipped. Is it also your job to keep her from other men? I always liked the idea of personal responsibility myself. BillR -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/4/08 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Hillary did a great job of keeping things (i.e., Slick's zipper) in the White House under control, I'm sure she will be able to run govt health care, when she is not dodging sniper fire. --R Rory wrote: In case you may have not noticed, the government already runs one health care organization, VA Anyone? Since they do such a stellar job with that oe, I'm sure they can handle the rest of the population. US Government health care, combining all the efficiency of the US Government, with all the compassion of the IRS!) Not ME! On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think things are bad now, wait until all the doctors are government employees. Allan -- 1983 300D Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not intentional I am sure, but errors from fatigue, guessing about the correct medication rather than looking it up, incorrect diagnosis, a slip during surgery - yes to those. I don't think that I would feel much better if I lost my spouse or a child to a medical mistake rather than a bullet. In fact, given the lingering death some medical errors cause, in some cases the bullet could be better. All things being equal [meaning you lose a loved one] errors vs evil intent might be easier to live with, might not. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
How much of that respect is due to the press keeping his (and his brothers') activities quiet and out of the public eye, and a good PR effort to present them well? The WH press all knew what was going on and chose not to report it for whatever reasons. If anything, morality among the general populace was probably a bit more settled then than today or 16 yr ago, so that knowing JFK was a total horndog, addicted to drugs of various sorts due to his back problems, would probably have tarnished that Camelot thing a bit. Bobby was not any better, and Teddy, well, we all know about him. The old man Joe's story was kept pretty quiet until much later. That whole crowd, the males anyway, that descended from him was pretty much in his image in one way or other. Their women folk have suffered greatly for it, another aspect of their characters. --R R A Bennell wrote: However, few would deny that John and Jackie Kennedy are among the most respected whitehouse couples and the evidence now indicates he wasn't really much different than Bill. Just a different time and less respect from the press. Others have done similar - Bill just got caught and exposed. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Well I know if mine came unzipped I would not have the need, ability, or interest to unzip it again as the necessary means to carry through would be severely compromised. But, yes, personal responsibility is the key, and enforcement when it doesn't work, if it is important to the couple. There is also that little aspect that as president, everyone involved has a responsibility to live up to the honor of the office. In their case, it doesn't seem like fidelity and honor toward one another is a factor. Makes me wonder how someone(s) like that could have honor/respect in the office and respect to the American people they represent, but I think the answer to that is clear. In the Bill and Hill case, it was ongoing, so yeah, I think it was her responsibility to make sure it did not happen again and again and again when he was incapable of behaving responsibly, if for no other reason than family honor or consideration of their child, even if it wasn't his. And yes I think it is a spouse's job to keep the other from straying, by daily actions and behavior toward one another, not necessarily by constant oversight unless you got a Bill type to cover. You really have to work at it every day, and sometimes it is hard work to do so. --R Bill R wrote: Interesting that you feel it is your wife's job to keep your pants zipped. Is it also your job to keep her from other men? I always liked the idea of personal responsibility myself. BillR -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/4/08 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Hillary did a great job of keeping things (i.e., Slick's zipper) in the White House under control, I'm sure she will be able to run govt health care, when she is not dodging sniper fire. --R Rory wrote: In case you may have not noticed, the government already runs one health care organization, VA Anyone? Since they do such a stellar job with that oe, I'm sure they can handle the rest of the population. US Government health care, combining all the efficiency of the US Government, with all the compassion of the IRS!) Not ME! On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think things are bad now, wait until all the doctors are government employees. Allan -- 1983 300D Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not intentional I am sure, but errors from fatigue, guessing about the correct medication rather than looking it up, incorrect diagnosis, a slip during surgery - yes to those. I don't think that I would feel much better if I lost my spouse or a child to a medical mistake rather than a bullet. In fact, given the lingering death some medical errors cause, in some cases the bullet could be better. All things being equal [meaning you lose a loved one] errors vs evil intent might be easier to live with, might not. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
The thing that made JFK such a great president was the fact that he got shot. I bet if that never happened and lived a normal life, he would have been considered a bad president. R A Bennell wrote: However, few would deny that John and Jackie Kennedy are among the most respected whitehouse couples and the evidence now indicates he wasn't really much different than Bill. Just a different time and less respect from the press. Others have done similar - Bill just got caught and exposed. Randy -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Then I assume you feel the same way about not only Kennedy but also Eisenhower, and the list no doubt goes on and on. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Well I know if mine came unzipped I would not have the need, ability, or interest to unzip it again as the necessary means to carry through would be severely compromised. But, yes, personal responsibility is the key, and enforcement when it doesn't work, if it is important to the couple. There is also that little aspect that as president, everyone involved has a responsibility to live up to the honor of the office. In their case, it doesn't seem like fidelity and honor toward one another is a factor. Makes me wonder how someone(s) like that could have honor/respect in the office and respect to the American people they represent, but I think the answer to that is clear. In the Bill and Hill case, it was ongoing, so yeah, I think it was her responsibility to make sure it did not happen again and again and again when he was incapable of behaving responsibly, if for no other reason than family honor or consideration of their child, even if it wasn't his. And yes I think it is a spouse's job to keep the other from straying, by daily actions and behavior toward one another, not necessarily by constant oversight unless you got a Bill type to cover. You really have to work at it every day, and sometimes it is hard work to do so. --R Bill R wrote: Interesting that you feel it is your wife's job to keep your pants zipped. Is it also your job to keep her from other men? I always liked the idea of personal responsibility myself. BillR -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/4/08 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB Hillary did a great job of keeping things (i.e., Slick's zipper) in the White House under control, I'm sure she will be able to run govt health care, when she is not dodging sniper fire. --R Rory wrote: In case you may have not noticed, the government already runs one health care organization, VA Anyone? Since they do such a stellar job with that oe, I'm sure they can handle the rest of the population. US Government health care, combining all the efficiency of the US Government, with all the compassion of the IRS!) Not ME! On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think things are bad now, wait until all the doctors are government employees. Allan -- 1983 300D Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not intentional I am sure, but errors from fatigue, guessing about the correct medication rather than looking it up, incorrect diagnosis, a slip during surgery - yes to those. I don't think that I would feel much better if I lost my spouse or a child to a medical mistake rather than a bullet. In fact, given the lingering death some medical errors cause, in some cases the bullet could be better. All things being equal [meaning you lose a loved one] errors vs evil intent might be easier to live with, might not. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
evidence now indicates he wasn't really much different than Bill. Jack slept with Marilyn Monroe, a cultural icon and quite the 'hot chick'. Way up there on the respect-o-meter. What did Bill do? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Doctors, Gun owners, Lawyers and Why I drive an MB
Jim Cathey wrote: What did Bill do? Monica Moowenski. And that chick that sued him, forget the name, but she's got a beak like Toucan Sam. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
