RE: Drawers
Now, with the new command, I do not get here any sliding effect. The drawer stacks simply open. Maybe there is a sliding effect, but it is not visible for me. Is there maybe another undocumented feature that can slow down the showing of the drawer as in visual effects? This is on Windows with Metacard 2.5.1B2. This feature only works on OS X. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC in RR
At 5:57 AM -0700 8/9/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Q1. Can I still use my MetaCard stacks in the RR GUI? Or do they have to be 'translated'? Or do I simply change the suffix? You can use them as-is. (To get the Open item in the File menu to see them on Windows/Unix, you do need to change the extension. On Mac you need to change the file type. Or hold down the Option/Alt key when choosing the Open item.) The file format's the same. Q2. Can I use RR in 'spartan metaCard mode' and continue to 'roll my own'? You can go on using either interface (and you can add/modify things in either interface for your use). I'm honestly not sure whether you can tack the MC interface onto Rev - the engine is identical, but Rev includes some libraries that aren't in MC, so you might run into some problems with those. So I guess that one is filed under not supported but you're welcome to try it Q3. I have been happy with mc2.3 and mc2.4 for ages and most of the new features have not really impacted on me (under the rule of appropriateness whereby 'Just because you can does not mean you have to'). As my subscription has lapsed, I am a tad confused about the upgrade/cross-grade/transfer licence and price. What's the cost to buy into the new equivalent? The deal is that the next time you update your MC license for an additional year for $299, you also get a Revolution key. So the effect is you renew the same way you've always been able to renew an MC license, but you also get a cross-grade to Revolution Enterprise for no additional cost. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought http://www.runrev.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
Second, the problem with the MC licensing scheme is that it was too easy to abuse... Here, I fully understand RR's way. You build a chain of buttons never breaking the limit of the 10 script lines but despite that, I dont know anyone who would in their right mind want to use such an IDE. Also, to Scott's demise, allowing compilation of an executable is a nice feature for a demo but it's part of the problem with runaway licenses... Actually, this was an acceptable way to earn your wings and test the MC environment. Chaining 10-lines was not breaking any licenses AFAIK. I believe the reasoning was that any serious developer would pay rather than struggle all the time, but people who were not serious wouldn't pay anyway. Some post in this thread seem to confirm that this worked. (But then some complained that they can't truly evaluate the product with 10-line limit.) No many IDE's have this feature on the other hand! Also, note that other than optimizing the IDE to improve your workflow, I dont see why anyone would want to go through the pain of creating an IDE. Most RR and MC users create applications for their clients. None of them want their clients to develop more themselves! It was not about competing GUI as far as I know. MC allowed for alt GUIs (it is Rev that had this restriction). However, if not for the script limiting, one unscrupulous programmer could produce a standalone that gave full access to the engine in developer mode for anyone. Indeed not a desirable situation for anyone seriously interested in this product. This is why standalones have always been running in the demo mode so do speak. Full features of the engine were only available in the development (paid) environment. As a result, we had a severly limited or full environment but nothing in between. As Scott explained to me at some point, there were some markets that he left out for that reason. Now Rev is changing the equation by further restricting the 'limited' end, crippling capabilities for our products even further. My reading on that is that Rev is focusing more on people who work only within dev environment rather than producing standalones distributed to others. In other words, while MC was meant as a tool for professional developers, Rev is mostly after the hobbyst market. Following Robert's comments earlier, the removal of a feature or limiting a feature like dynamic scripting (the DO script), is IMOHO a terrible mistake and a SEVERE limit to the IDE's possibilities. Of which this one is almost unique among other IDEs. Since using 'do' one can relatively easily work around the 'set script to' restriction (performance issues aside), we can only expect further elimination of 'do' in standalones (do limit set to 0) in a near future. It would be a logical followup to fully close that loophole. This line of product development really scares me, particularly as it is a rather expensive product (I paid for full MC license plus renewal) comparing to either RB or CWP. I have my doubts about cutting off multiplatform features from cheaper licenses but I see this as Rev trying to maximize their income. I have no problems if the demo is restricted in terms of dynamic scripting. But the engine embedded when producing a standalone from a licensed environment could retain current limits. Since the limits are clearly kept as parameters, there must be ways to control them accordingly, including setting arbitrary values for specific projects (as I suggested). I had big and long-term plans for a number of MC-based projects, but the recent developments really make me wonder whether I bet on the right horse. Robert Brenstein ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Launching a local file in the default browser #3
FWIW, there's also this nugget: ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfig.plist You can also dig around in: ~/Library/Preferences/LaunchServices.plist It seems that you can use these to find the actual applications assigned to various file formats. Brian ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: MC/RR and Email launching
Sorry... I gave a Revolution solution; Try: send mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] to program Finder with GURLGURL Works in OS X as well... (launched Mail on my machine) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MC/RR and Email launching I am presently Mac-less :( Could one of you let me know if this works on both flavours? put [EMAIL PROTECTED] into tURL if the platform is MacOS then get the systemversion set the itemdel to . if item 1 of it = 10 then # OS X put open location quote tURL quote into tScript do tScript as AppleScript else # MacOS send tUrl to program Finder with GURLGURL end if end if Many thanks! /H ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Does your MC crash too?
Hi guys, since your message is from 13th - check if you have this W32.Blaster.Worm on your machine. regards eugen Not in my case: I've had this problem for a few months now actually. I really think, at least for me, it's an OS problem (Win 98) since under 95 and Macos I had no such problem. Further, the hyperlinks in my MC help stack work just fine - when i have the machine set to 4 bit color :~/ Might also therefore be a driver problem... I cannot imagine how the GUI would make the program unstable. The engine is rock solid. Nope, I think me and whoever else has this problem just needs a clean OS install try telling that to my old school sysadmin/secretary. That's what's lovely about academic secretaries - they're not in a subordinate role, which means _I_ have to lick her boots, and not the other way around (as in the private sector). Ah, the joys of seniority... My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Multiple LAN cards more..
Unfortunatly it seems that it's currently not possible to renew a subscription online. I assume if you contact Heather she will help you out though. Yeah!! I just got an email from Heather saying if I pay $300 for mc2.5.. I'll get a free upgrade to the 'Enterprise' ... I'm still unclear about my upgrade options.. I have metacard 2.4.3.. develop for pc, mac linux.. I want to upgrade.. If I upgrade to 2.5 for $300 do I get a free crossgrade to revolution ? If so, which edition? Yes, and the latest edition, with a years free updates. There are no crossgrade options on the runrev site anymore, do I have to buy the new full 'Enterprise' edition for $599 to maintain creative freedom across platforms? No, you don't. We will be maintaining the subscription model for MetaCard customers. I'll put the crossgrade option back up very shortly, Looking forward to playing with both 2.5 runrev soon :) regards alex ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
As the discussion has raised a number of points I had also tried to express in a post to the use-revolution list on July 21st (when most of the Revolution team was at the Mac Expo in New York) I repeat this post here for those members of the Metacard list that are not at the same time reading the revolution list: July 21st Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 Geoff Canyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with the 10 line limit in the Starter Kit is that it's both too big and too small. It's too small in that anyone unfamiliar with Revolution thinks it's worthless. (snip) But it's also too large, in that anyone who knows what they're doing and are willing to put out the effort can get almost anything done in ten lines or less. So the Starter Kit has the dual problem of not being as effective as it could be at bringing in new users, and also of hurting sales because people find they can do whatever they need with it. regards, Geoff Canyon These points could also be seen from a different perspective. My impression is that the Starter Kit did *not* hurt sales. It did not hurt you (the Revolution team) in amassing enough money so you could buy out Metacard. The Starter Kit and the Free Edition helped you to get the necessary money in the medium run, because quite a number of people tried the Free Edition for a time longer than the meager thirty days of a trial version and then bought a full license. The Free Edition compares favorably with a number of other low-end authoring systems (in the price range up to 150 US$) - in that is has at least their potential - and will therefore diminish the sale of such products. On the other hand you are right when you say that almost anything (can) be done in ten lines or less with the Starter Kit - that is one of the many (may I say former) beauties of Metacard/Revolution. There may be indeed that occasional programmer that puts out a wonderful application, because he has overcome the ten-lines barrier with much effort and ingenuity. But for any programmer - other than a casual hobbyist - that intends to create applications on a more regular basis, the effort and time needed to overcome the ten-lines barrier by far outweighs the money saved by not buying a regular license. This occasional programmer will not hurt sales, on the contrary, by showing what could be achieved with so much effort, his application could be an incentive to buy a regular license that allows creating similar programs without such tremendous effort and in much less time.-- We have a special problem here in case the Starter Kit should really die: In addition to a full license we have used the Starter Kit for a number of years as an introductory tool for the (university) students in our multimedia seminars and workshops. The students need to be able to work on projects at home outside class hours. They can experiment, try out basic functions, and put together small projects. On the other hand, they can get - or download from our ftp server (or from the many sites that offer Metacard and Revolution stacks) - examples that have been developed with a full edition and run them with the Starter Kit. These stacks will be mostly small, because they are not standalones, and because of that can be downloaded quickly (which is an important consideration, because not many students have a DSL connection at home). The students get a printed documentation introducing them to a basic set of commands and algorithms and a number of sample stacks especially designed for this level. When the semester finishes, they still have the Starter Kits and can take second looks and maybe start anew exploring Revolution and showing it to others. Both by experimenting on their own and by looking at examples (and their scripts) - also such produced with a full version -they can develop a feeling for the rich potential of Metacard/Revolution and could either be prospective buyers or people that spread the word and encourage others to buy such a wonderful product. From obvious reasons it would be out of the question to expect that these students would buy a product for 75 US$ (assuming this will be the educational price for the Express version) at the beginning of a workshop, a product they do not yet know at this point. Given our budget restrictions it would be likewise impossible that our institution could buy a number of new licenses each semester for the students. Quite a number of students have written research papers connected to or supported by a Metacard/Revolution project. Since the pressure to produce research papers is great - in most courses of studies leading to M.A. level about 60 research papers have to be handed in before admission to the M.A. examination process - students that have participated in classes using the Starter Kit like to take advantage of this creative situation and combine their projects with a research paper.
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
Hi all, On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 11:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, without the 10 line script limit, I would be using java or VBS and would have never made a test product to justify buying MC let alone renew the license. This proves that the 10 line script limit is a minimum for anyone who wants to try MC. Of course, a one month limit is as nice if not better without the 10 line limit. But that wasn't available then... Roughly the same for me. Think I used the starter kit for around 4 months to build things before getting a licence. I would be using another language if I had not been able to do this. Using do alone would not suffice as I'd have lost the speed reasons for using MC. 100 ACK... Same for me... I still think the free StarterKit was the best thing ever. One could play with it, get used to the app and even build useful things :-) ...and 30 (contiguous?) days may be not enough, even with no script limits... Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.major-k.de P.S. I confess i build a (not too) commercial CD-ROM with the starterkit and bought my first MC license with the salary for that :-) (Simple Image and video presentation, but what the egg...) Maybe that's what they are afraid of in scotland? ;-) ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
Hi David, On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 13:13, Klaus Major wrote: I still think the free StarterKit was the best thing ever. I really could convince some of my customers to install the MC version for their OS, after explaining that there would not be thousands of DLLs on their HD after installation, and that it would be nothing more than a MC-Player (sic!) ;-), so i could deliver some of my projects as stacks... ...which is a fine thing, filesize-wise :-) In the future i would have to spend some extra time to create some kind of MC-Player from scratch. OK, its doable, but should be avoidable... One could play with it, get used to the app and even build useful things :-) ...and 30 (contiguous?) days may be not enough, even with no script limits... 30 days is not enough for a significant market sector (students) to decide they can build a business around creating Rev built products to justify the licence fee. Exactly! P.S. I confess i build a (not too) commercial CD-ROM with the starterkit and bought my first MC license with the salary for that :-) (Simple Image and video presentation, but what the egg...) My guess is that it took you longer than 3 months to learn, build test and release this product? Hmm, i still learn something new in MC every day (and especially in RR ;-), but having a HC/SC background i could finish that CD in about 2 months, including image editing in Photoshop (which i really love :-)... It wasn't really more than something like go next cd etc..., but someone had to do it ;-) But yes, the learning curve IS very steep, but only because MC/RR is s powerful! :-) Maybe that's what they are afraid of in scotland? ;-) Easy - I'm half Scottish :) Ooops, half apologizes then :-D Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.major-k.de ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Launching a local file in the default browser
Yep, the same ol' question: how do I launch a local file in the default browser on Mac OS X? And for future reference: Where is the definitive answer archived? TIA - -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Announcing the new Open Source IDE (you just can't code withit)!
2 things come to mind... (Absolutely no offense intended to anyone, just MOHO) (in hopes of more and better freer open software IDE) 1 - more features surely, 2 - more quality definitely And that means speed improvements too. Can the liberty of a program be called a quality? Maybe this feature of economics will stop RR from continuing... They are in they right of course! Im just hoping they consider what the market reaction might be... The more restrictions a programmer puts into a program, the more maintenance will be required, which is time away from good features the more hackers will hack it and break it the Higher the price the lesser demand the less usefull applications will come out of it the higher the price High margins are nice but they keep more customers away. In my IT Economics knowledge base it says information has 4 economic variables - Timeliness - Certainty - Frequency - Value as i see it, RR and MC... MC is more timely - faster, keeps projects simple, RR is deeper into using more of the many MC features forgotten in the MC GUI MC is more certain (because it's the core of RR too) Nowaday, it depends if the main engine being developped is RR or MC (later ported to the build of the other at the expense of time put on the primary engine...) MC was more frequently available, now I bet it's RR's turn RR is a good value in certainty (features, quality) Im sure RR is much more polished than MC GUI wise but it also imposes limits. Im learning Notes at work and I cant tell you how HORRIBLE is it... But Notes has lots of power. It's also more expensive... Im going to find out soon... ;) My personal point of view is that we are battling over words and features that dont even come in to play with products from name any IDE or IDE tool company. I applaud RR and am very jealous... ;) I love competition. But I know that my IDE GUI is better IMOHO (I wish I had as much time to put into it ;). But for this reason I would rather keep MC. Am I afraid of RR preventing me to develop this elsewhere? I applaud them more though for making what MetaCard corp could have done. Scott liked the shortcut, more power to him! Im sure his arrangement isn't bad at all! Im sure with a small investment Scott could have pulled a winner app with just the same simple GUI. Scott's work is also a jewel. It certainly needs lots of work but it's on par with most other applications. I've seen some awesome java and flash tools and as usual they are tops in quality. What is however annoying is trying to translate programs across these languages. Here there is a clear advantage to c++, java and php. Im learning c++ porting some neural networks and it's logic is awesome... new something... And templates in MC are what those are! So with RR's plug-ins and MC's many new features to come... It's only time and user demand that lacks to build the many features needed to compare MC to Flash, Java, Notes, etc... I think MC or RR beat the crap out of java! but... Where is java today compared to MC or RR? More freedom in the demo IDE could build a new market... You can still find more HC stacks than MC stacks in the net. Got to go, got a new PHPNuke version to try... -- Go WILD at http://monsieurX.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
Mark Talluto wrote: On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 06:30 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: Since using 'do' one can relatively easily work around the 'set script to' restriction (performance issues aside), we can only expect further elimination of 'do' in standalones (do limit set to 0) in a near future. It would be a logical followup to fully close that loophole. This line of product development really scares me, particularly as it is a rather expensive product (I paid for full MC license plus renewal) comparing to either RB or CWP. I have my doubts about cutting off multiplatform features from cheaper licenses but I see this as Rev trying to maximize their income. I have no problems if the demo is restricted in terms of dynamic scripting. But the engine embedded when producing a standalone from a licensed environment could retain current limits. Since the limits are clearly kept as parameters, there must be ways to control them accordingly, including setting arbitrary values for specific projects (as I suggested). I had big and long-term plans for a number of MC-based projects, but the recent developments really make me wonder whether I bet on the right horse. Roger all that! Cripple the demo version. Keep things the way they are for paid versions of Rev. The script limits do not come into play so long as there is a licenced Home stack. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
Good idea.. I can round up Jerry Daniels and Mark Leutzelshwaub, and a webcam. Pop a couple bottle caps with some chips -- and we'll have an online Fiesta:-) c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Gaskin Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26 Chipp Walters wrote: Lemme know when ya'll be in Austin :-)!!! Wish I could be there :-( Maybe we should hook up videoconferencing some time and have a distributed worldwide RevDevCon -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 13:05, jbv wrote: But my main question regarding the implementation of openGL in MC was : how end users would like to access 3D properties and functions from within MetaTalk scripts... Anyone who has some experience with openGL coding in C/C++ or Java knows that using openGL is slightly more complex than setting a few QT properties for instance... I am excited about your work. I do not have any coding experience with open/gl though. I agree with David that using current terminology that Director uses would be a good start. It would extra cool if we could import 3d objects in from modeling apps as well. Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
At 1:33PM -0700 8/6/03, Mark Talluto wrote: I know that this limitation will cause of to rewrite sections some of my existing products. I don't see why this limitation must be imposed. I'd urge people to drop a line to Kevin if this change would impact their products, describing how you use the capability. I can't speak for Kevin but I know he listens carefully to concerns of current customers when changes are being considered. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought http://www.runrev.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
Chipp Walters wrote: Lemme know when ya'll be in Austin :-)!!! Wish I could be there :-( Maybe we should hook up videoconferencing some time and have a distributed worldwide RevDevCon -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
I personally dont see an economic reason why this should be limited. I do see reasons to abandon MC/RR more and more... Sad but true... I dont mind evolution of products, but Im against limiting of features while essential things like a good Script Editors or debugger are still as arcane as an sword against an automatic rifle which put a major brake on your productivity are still not being improved as they should. Same remark for antialiased vector graphics which are non-existent in MC/RR,and that would make of MC a good competitor to Flash... Without competition most of the world would be made of communist or socialists and using microsoft DOS. Well, things aren't so straightforward... Please remember that USSR was thefirst country to put a spaceship in orbit, to have robots landing on Mars... And BTW DOS wasn't invented by K. Marx... But this is getting OT... The choir : "Wow! there's a communist on this list..." More features, more freedom = more users, more clients, more applications, more power to the developper = MORE competitive IDE = more users = less competition! Well, these days too often competition leads to standardization monotony... At least we can agree on the following : more features + more power to the developper = less users tempted to switch to another IDE... JB
Kiddy Paint - Digital Camera's and Twain drivers.
I am making a sound and music machine for my daughter - unfortunately I can't find the work i did a couple of years back on this and am running out of time (it's a birthday present)- so am looking for any MC/Rev bits and pieces that I can use to cobble this together. The bits: 1) Pretty kid friendly painting package 2) MP3 juke box Must be some bits out there? 3) Digital camera interface I'll be connecting a digital camera that uses TWAIN drivers on the PC to connect. At the moment I just launch a painting package that can acquire the images from the camera - but this is a confusing interface.I want it all within MC. So far can't find any code to do this (well not under $80 at least). Thanks ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: [OT] Thumbs up!
Well done, Shari! Excellent news and well deserved. The learning curve may be steep, but the views when you get there are marvellous. /H _ Hugh Senior The Flexible Learning Company Consultant Programming Software Solutions Fax/Voice: +44 (0)1483.27 87 27 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.flexibleLearning.com
Re: Script Limits
On 8/8/03 2:43 pm, Robert Brenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And BTW again, did anyone contact Kevin privately about this script limit thing, as suggested in his original message ? And did anyone get an answer ? I did. No answer. But I did not list any specific product that is immediately impacted. My current personal response time is averaging around 10 days. Please be patient. And in case anyone is confused, I do not provide technical support - that queue is only on my personal mail box. Our technical support is running smoothly at the moment with no unexpected delays. Kevin Kevin Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Script Limits vs dynamic programming
On Thursday, August 7, 2003 Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: I don't understand what you mean by this. Your extensible stacks are your products. (Product does not mean commercial product, nor is it restricted to standalone applications.) It sounds from your description like your products would in fact impact the products you make, so my suggestion of discussing this with Kevin is still my advice. This is missing the point. The principle advantage of metacard/RR is that it provides for dynamic programming *and* it does so in a cross-platform way. I have and use c, c++ compilers, Futurebasic, RealBasic, and so on, but for different purposes. None of these other programming environments is *dynamic*. Scott Raney's important statement that metacard is written in metacard was not to make the point that, as with c or Basic or Fortran compilers one could write a c, or Basic or Fortran compiler with it, but rather that the system is bootstrapped. The possibility of producing ``standalones'' in hypercard and metacard has unfortunately helped disguise this fact to the point where many (Shari C is a fine example, here, and more power to her) think of metacard/RR as just another IDE with fine cross-platform capabilities. That it no doubt is, but that's not what makes it either unique or important: it is the possibility for dynamic programming that the engine provides, as with hypercard. Limiting script length and ``do'' to non-licensed RR users means that *only* licensed RR users of the stacks I produce can can partake of the dynamic nature. Thus, rather being an essential part of metacard/RR, this dynamism becomes a feature *only* licensed users (developers?) can use, but can't retain in the stacks they produce. By all means, strip it out of standalones if need be, but leave it as an essential feature of stacks. For those who remember them, think of the completely different experience one has programming in and using TILs (threaded interpretative languages) such as APL, and forth: as with hypercard, programming is not distinct from using; they are seamlessly integrated. *That* is what we will be losing by these limits. For those who use metacard/RR to produce applications without those dynamic capabilities, I can understand why they don't feel these limits amount to much. But for some, at least me, it is the dynamism that is my whole reason for using metacard, recommending it to students, and so on. John R. Vokey ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
I know that this limitation will cause of to rewrite sections some of my existing products. I remember in HC and OMO using scripts of controls to hold data. In case scripts of controls in MC are used for the same purpose (holding data, and not executable code), could custom props be a nice workaround ? Just asking, as I've never used custom props much... JB ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits vs dynamic programming
On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 04:31 PM, Dr. John R. Vokey wrote: Thus, rather being an essential part of metacard/RR, this dynamism becomes a feature *only* licensed users (developers?) can use, but can't retain in the stacks they produce. By all means, strip it out of standalones if need be, but leave it as an essential feature of stacks. I'm not sure I'm following this. To be used, a stack needs to be either in a standalone, used by a standalone, run by an engine or used in a development environment. In the past there was the free version that--like the standalone--was unlicensed. It could run stacks but in doing so was limited in set the script of ... capability to 10 lines. So, the limit is not in the stack but in the environment and in the intended use of the stack. In some sense (and perhaps in a real sense) the engine is just a naked standalone. It is the player that is handicapped to license or don't set the script. Or am I completely missing your point? Dar Scott ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: tip - group margins
I've been making a little image editing stack and ran across something interesting. I was using a group to display a crop rectangle, and kept finding that although I set the rect of the group to the rect of the image (when first showing the crop box), when I displayed the rects of both objects they were different by 4 pixels (even though appearing to be identical on screen). The key is to remember that objects like groups have margins which are automatically applied, therefore in my situation I needed to do the following: set the margins of group crop to 0 ~ Rodney The margins, or the borderWidth? Shari C Gypsy King Software -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
Hi again, I'm afraid there's a little confusion in the word implementation. The only purpose of the demo I put online was to show that realtime communication between MC and openGL was possible, as well as displaying the rendered image in an MC img control. Of course the final purpose is to have everything scriptable, including 3D objects, textures they use and how they interact... My question concerned mainly : HOW to do that in MetaTalk ? A large set of functions and properties should be added to the the language of course, but HOW should it be structured ? As long as there's only a couple of textured spheres or cubes floating around, that's not too complicated... But what about a particule system made of metaballs bouncing around according to a complex math function (for instance) ? I'm presently working on a 3D sound processing app that would display partials spectrum of sounds in 3D (from Csound files), and allow users to manipulate these data (first with the mouse and various tools, and in the end with a data glove) like clay, and then re-synthesise the sound. So at every step of this work I try to figure out what would be the best (read: more ergonomic / intuitive / productive) way to script it in MT. And sadly, it appears that coding it in C as an external with simple calls from a MC scripts remains the most powerful flexible way to do... By powerful I mean : giving access to all openGL features. My suggestions would include a good look at Director and the 3D Lingo terminology and then to take the core of this and add something special. I had a look at 3D Lingo (I dropped Director around version 4, andit made me feel strange to go back to this crappy sprite stuff)... Please don't take it personal, but it's the typical example of what I'd like to avoid... It's a vague suggestion, and I'm not up fully on the technical side - but the frustration I had then was the lack of ability to dynamically create a world. So I'd like to ba able to have an interface which would allow me to stream / add to / delete from / morph the OpenGL content - not just move around and interact with precreated environments. This is closer to what I had in mind... Bringing up the open source theme again - the most exciting thing by far in the 3D realm from my point of view would be to take the Open Source code from the largest online 3D community - Blender and be able to use both the authoring tools and real-time engine to create and control 3D objects within the MC environment. is Blender cross-platform ? It uses Python at the moment as a scripting language, and you could look at how this is implemented. From my view at the time it would make a more valuable product to use MC as a backend scripting language for a 3D front end than to play 3D windows within an MC front end? Any useful link for that ? Thanks, JB ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 02:42 AM, jbv wrote: I know that this limitation will cause of to rewrite sections some of my existing products. I remember in HC and OMO using scripts of controls to hold data. In case scripts of controls in MC are used for the same purpose (holding data, and not executable code), could custom props be a nice workaround ? Just asking, as I've never used custom props much... You bring up a point I did not think of till now. Saving small snippets of data in a script is the only way to save encrypted data in a stack. Data in a custom property can be viewed. I know there are other ways to encrypt data, but this is a nice simple way. In my case, I usually am updating code to controls with the set the script of There is no other way to use the same control with new code. You will have to literally replace the entire old control with a new one that is stored on an update card. I do this now when the control that needs to be replaced has more than 10 lines of code anyways. It goes something like this: 1. Version 1 standalone of a product makes a particular document. 2. You find bugs or better ways of doing something. So you update the script in those controls. You have a replica of each of those controls that get updated in the new standalone on an update card that the user never sees. 3. User downloads version 1.1 of standalone. Opens up their save doc in new version and the standalone recognizes that they have a version 1 doc. It updates their doc by replacing all the old controls with the updated versions from the new standalone. Losing the set the script of will take away the ability to easily update a card stack script. Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:50 AM, Ken Ray wrote: I would still like to know exactly what the new changes will affect, in case it is something that my current projects use. Shari, What it means is that any of your projects that use the phrase set the script of ... will fail. You used to be able to do this, but the scripts had to be less than 10 lines. With the new changes, you won't be able to do it at all. Is this going to affect licensed copies? Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Shifted field text - what to do?
When I tab into the field, the text is highlighted, but pushed off to the left. For example, a field that says United States in it, but unselected shows United S would end up showing d States when it was highlighted. When you tab out of the field, it *leaves* it that way. I can't figure out why the text is hilighted when you tab into the field. I set up a little test and it doesn't do this. Are you adding something to make this happen? Depending on whether you are or not the following may or may not be helpful: on openfield select char 0 of me end openfield Try this in the field that's giving you problems. Regards, Howard Bornstein D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
Lemme know when ya'll be in Austin :-)!!! Wish I could be there :-( -Chipp The next Southern California RevDevCon will be on Tuesday, August 26, at 7pm here at the Fourth World Embassy in downtown Los Angeles. These RevDevCons are small informal gatherings of Revolution and MetaCard developers in which we talk code, solve problems, and enjoy the rare treat of seeing listees in person. The agenda for the meeting: 7:00 - 7:30: Introductions, gab about code. 7:30 - 8:30: We'll walk 50 yards to the restaurant in this complex, Barabara's (which has an excellent wine list) for dinner and more gabbing. 8:30 - ?: We return to the Embassy where Geoff Canyon will give a presentation about some cool new stuff he's been working on, after which we'll gab some more and eventually call it a night. If you'd like to attend just show up. If you need directions drop me an email and I'll send 'em to you. At the moment I know Ken Ray will be there, as well as Geoff and myself of course. With any luck we'll have at least our half-dozen regulars and hopefully a few newcomers as well. See ya' then -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Software Design and Development for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the Web [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717AIM: FourthWorldInc Fax: 323-225-0716 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
I am excited about your work. Thank you so much.After the lack of response to my post from 2 weeks ago, I thought everyone had lost interest in it... It would extra cool if we could import 3d objects in from modeling apps as well. I didn't include that option in the demo, but it's one of the easiest thing to do I guess most 3D modelers export to openGL format. And if they don't, there are more than enough translators available on the net. Format translation is also an option that could be implemented... I wasn't planing to create a 3D modeler with MC anyway. But I strongly believe that a set of (scriptable) tools to process / modify 3D data (extrude, stretch...) could be a great feature, because interactive 3D doesn't only mean moving rotating objects... JB ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
Hi all, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of response to my post from 2 weeks ago regarding the best way to implement openGL in MC... Has everybody lost interest in that feature ? Or is everyone on vacation ? Or has WW4 already began ? Regards, JB ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script limit - clarify please
What exactly does all of this mean anyway? I cannot distinguish between rumor and fact: - Scott promises the MetaCard IDE will always work with the Revolution engine. Is this his 'wish' or is this in writing somewhere. - Revolution promises that the Revolution engine will work with the MetaCard IDE. I see no time frame here. My MetaCard engine could be broken with the next update to Windows or OSX...maybe next week? - Scott promises that the MetaCard IDE is 'open source'. Wasn't it always? - Scott Raney works 'for' Revolution. I doubt that. - Revolution takes orders from Scott. I doubt that too. This is what I have interpereted from all of this (and my general 'gut' feeling): The MetaCard IDE is open source (a lot of good that does for me...really). The MetaCard IDE depends on several features that Revolution is taking out (or deciding to). Revolution will NOT maintain the MetaCard engine (i.e. to be compatible with the Revolution changes). Revolution will NOT update the MetaCard engine with bug fixes, even for current license holders. There is NO upgrade path for current MetaCard users (current license). Scott Raney is on a beach somewhere...never to be heard from again. Am I close? RCS ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits vs dynamic programming
This is missing the point. The principle advantage of metacard/RR is that it provides for dynamic programming *and* it does so in a cross-platform way. I have and use c, c++ compilers, Futurebasic, RealBasic, and so on, but for different purposes. None of these other programming environments is *dynamic*. Scott Raney's important statement that metacard is written in metacard was not to make the point that, as with c or Basic or Fortran compilers one could write a c, or Basic or Fortran compiler with it, but rather that the system is bootstrapped. The possibility of producing ``standalones'' in hypercard and metacard has unfortunately helped disguise this fact to the point where many (Shari C is a fine example, here, and more power to her) think of metacard/RR as just another IDE with fine cross-platform capabilities. That it no doubt is, but that's not what makes it either unique or important: it is the possibility for dynamic programming that the engine provides, as with hypercard. Limiting script length and ``do'' to non-licensed RR users means that *only* licensed RR users of the stacks I produce can can partake of the dynamic nature. Thus, rather being an essential part of metacard/RR, this dynamism becomes a feature *only* licensed users (developers?) can use, but can't retain in the stacks they produce. By all means, strip it out of standalones if need be, but leave it as an essential feature of stacks. For those who remember them, think of the completely different experience one has programming in and using TILs (threaded interpretative languages) such as APL, and forth: as with hypercard, programming is not distinct from using; they are seamlessly integrated. *That* is what we will be losing by these limits. For those who use metacard/RR to produce applications without those dynamic capabilities, I can understand why they don't feel these limits amount to much. But for some, at least me, it is the dynamism that is my whole reason for using metacard, recommending it to students, and so on. John R. Vokey Well said, John. I am actually in both shoes. I produce standalones that do not need the dynamic scripting or function fine with the current limits, but I would love to use MC/Rev for dynamic scripting as well. Except that 10-line limit is too restrictive for me. I tried to get over it in the past, but the solution offered by MC was too expensive and Rev never followed with my inquiry. Kevin's tinkering with the script limits now just set me off to not only stop it but rather go the other way and create means to increase those limits when needed. I am afraid, though, that such uses continue to be too small market for Rev to worry about. Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and Starter Kit
Roughly the same for me. Think I used the starter kit for around 4 months to build things before getting a licence. I would be using another language if I had not been able to do this. Using do alone would not suffice as I'd have lost the speed reasons for using MC. I, also, used the starter kit for awhile before buying a license. I actually did plan to build a project with the starter kit, but the 10 line script limit was just too big of a hassle to do a proper job. And I got far enough into it, that I knew I liked it. So I bought it. My philosophy as a developer, when I create software that I hope folks will buy, is never to take it away so that they will delete the program and move on. I limit functionality, as MC/Rev have done so far, but allow a very basic version to continue on forever. It's hard to say what would happen were I to change this philosophy. But logically, I believe it is the best philosophy. I know that programs I download, if they work 20 times and stop, get deleted, and do not get downloaded again. I have NEVER purchased shareware that just stopped functioning. I may not buy it immediately. But if it stays on my computer, and gets used, there is a chance I will buy it eventually. I have programs I will be purchasing this year, that fall into this category. Only reason I haven't purchased yet, is Mac changing from PPC to OSX, and I need to get the OSX versions of these programs, so that I do not have to purchase twice. My migration from PPC to OSX has been a slow one. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 03:59, Chipp Walters wrote: If you set up a video stream - I can toast you from here (London)! Monte can join us for breakfast (Australia) and Chipp - how about some live action footage from the ranche ? Sure, but there's not much live action here considering it was 106 degrees F outside. Even the horses were looking for shade ;-) Yes - been the hotest day on record yesterday in London. Today feels hotter - just belpow 100 degrees F. Maybe Gaia is picking up on the vibes on this list - man :) ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: MC/RR and Email launching - windows?
Is there a windows/MC solution to sending e-mail? I haven't seen anything in the documentation on MC for this and runrev just crashes repeatedly on my system (I presume not due to rev's fault but to my OS). My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Launching a local file
Yup... see my post with the subject NEW SOLUTION in it... Ken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 11:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Launching a local file Ken Ray wrote: GURL is no longer supported in OS X. I originally thought the same thing until Hugh suggested it again and I tested it... seems to work for me (OS X 10.2.6). But does it work with local files? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metac ard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: mcnews.rev
Scott Rossi wrote: On my end, I continue to work in MC and save in Rev. The engines are identical, but contrary to what others have posted on the lists, I believe an MC stack must be saved from within Rev to make it Rev-compatible. That would be a bug. If it affects the IDEs in that way it may affect your work. Another great benefit of having multiple IDEs: It keeps the engine well-tested and the environments clean. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limit
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: I'd urge people to drop a line to Kevin if this change would impact their products, describing how you use the capability. I can't speak for Kevin but I know he listens carefully to concerns of current customers when changes are being considered. Good advice *if one is producing ``products'', i.e., applications that just so happen to be written in metacard , but could have been done in c or BASIC)* I, however, produce extensible ``stacks''---following the original hypercard model--- that I freely exchange with my students and colleagues. Often, these stacks are boot-strapped in that they provide for a simple scripting language---a mixture of metatalk and procedures and functions I have added---to accomplish some goal, such as a stack that provides a resampling statistics language so that students and colleagues can program their own resampling solutions, or a language to program experiments that is itself extensible. Thus, the user writes lines of code (the afore-mentioned mixture of metatalk and new commands) that are then executed (usually via `do', but sometimes by replacing the script of some object): the user is not knowingly programming metacard, but using the new language. The proposed limits mean that the metacard (ok, RR) ``player'' is broken. To make use of my ``stacks'', the user must now have a licensed version of metacard (RR). It is (was?) this boot-strapping extensibility of xtalks (as with their threaded-interpretive-language, TILs, predecessors) that has been the core secret of their success, and the proposed loss of it in metacard/RR---the alleged successor to hypercard, is anathema. RR just becomes yet another cluttered IDE with an odd programming language. At a minimum, ``do'' should remain unlimited, but I would prefer to remove the limit on replacing scripts, as well. After all, haven't licensed users agreed not to produce a new RR in RR/metacard? And now that the free (but 10-line script limited) metacard is to be gone, to be replaced by a 30-day, web-checked (ugh!) demo, why are the limits needed at all? The whole direction is ominous. -- John R. Vokey, Ph.D. |\ _,,,---,,_ Professor /,`.-'`'-. ;-;;,_ Department of Psychology and Neuroscience |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' University of Lethbridge '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Windows Task Scheduler
Dave, Use the start command to run a batch without an interactive window. In the old AT command this was a /i to add interactivity but it's deprecated. Using the start command has quite a few more advantages. Type Start /? in a cmd.exe to see the options... cheers Xavier On 06/08/2003 12:44:13 metacard-admin wrote: Hi Slightly off topic. I've been experimenting with the Windows task scheduler (on XP and 2000). I've been using it to periodically run mt scripts with the Windows cgi engine (cmc.exe). It's working fine so far, but one minor annoyance is that the Windows console window (or whatever it's called) will briefly appear every time the script is run. (cmc.exe is a console app) Does anyone know how to configure the Task Scheduler to not show the console window? Cheers Dave ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
Re: MC/RR and Email launching - windows?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a windows/MC solution to sending e-mail? I haven't seen anything in the documentation on MC for this and runrev just crashes repeatedly on my system (I presume not due to rev's fault but to my OS). My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Have an eye at the Shao Sean's LibSMTP.rev stack. http://www.shaosean.tk/. An usefull piece of code... -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI) Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
Currently I do not believe you can set a script in a standalone. A Hypercard game I created used setting scripts. When I recreated the game in Metacard, I had to remove that because it didn't work once the game was compiled into a standalone. Something about the limitations apparently prevented it. Just tested it. Works fine. Made a stack with two buttons. button one sets the card script to: on fred answer 1 end fred button two calls the script: on mouseUp fred end mouseup Works. So presumably, this is not something that the new limit affects. Shari C Gypsy King Software -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard -- Rodney Tamblyn 44 Melville Street Dunedin New Zealand +64 3 4778606 http://rodney.weblogs.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC or Intel precision?
MisterX writes: Hi everyone, Is this megaproblem Windows only? put 2 ^ .5 = 1.414214 put pi = 3.14159265358979323846 put pi * 1 = 3.141593 --- ooops... put 0.0005 * 0.0005 = 0 Other than start writting out externals, is there a way to use Real math precision? Like PI! but avoiding put 10 * 0.001 * pi = 3141592.65359 which is as precise as it gets workaround... ;) thanks for any suggestions Xavier === Xavier, Did you try using the Format function to define the output format? Check the dictionary. miscdas ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: [OT] Thumbs up!
On 8/5/03 6:29 AM, Shari wrote: Just thought I'd share the happy news. Way to go! Brava. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
Amazing! It would also be nice if you could script the objects in the view and even their shapes/sides (like click on a side of a cube and each side does something else... IOW, apply HyperTalk scripting to 3D objects... one of my very oldest suggestions...) BTW, to convice those managers, just make a presentation using MC and show them side by side the features and ease of development using MC in comparison to the cost of the other tools... Im sure that when you tell them or show them the last slide with build with metacard only they will understand... cheers Xavier On 07/08/2003 15:05:04 metacard-admin wrote: My understanding is that WW4 has begun. Oh I see... When did it begin ? When Runrev bought MC ? ;-P I think you'll need to write an external that draws directly into a window - maybe something like the life external demo? Well, drawing into a window isn't too difficult, and can be done when you use openGL in C/C++. I think I've achieved smthing slightly more exciting : drawing directly into a MC image control. Some of you probably remember the demo I did several months ago (still online at http://www.netchampagne.com/demoopengl/ Windoze only). I say more exciting because IMHO it is more embedded in the MC environment than an extra window, and also it allows several interactive 3D windows to be included in the same stack simultaneously. As mentioned in my post from 2 weeks ago, this feature is now available for Win32 and Carbon. But my main question regarding the implementation of openGL in MC was : how end users would like to access 3D properties and functions from within MetaTalk scripts... Anyone who has some experience with openGL coding in C/C++ or Java knows that using openGL is slightly more complex than setting a few QT properties for instance... I might be wrong but I have the feeling that MC users (or at least MC list members) are more experienced programers with experience in many languages / environments, while Rev users (or at least Rev list members) are more HC or Director users in search for a new tool... What I mean by that in that IMHO using interactive 3D in projects should be an attractive feature to members of this very list... And that good advices and wise considerations regarding 3D implementation should come from this list... Just imagine : networked 3D interactive apps could be more affordable now, requiring less development time... This should speak to game designers... For the anecdote, as I'm about to change job, I recently met a few managers of multimedia companies in Paris. The problem is (and has always been) that most of these ppl lack the technology knowledge to make good decisions regarding exciting projects. For that matter, they all think that Flash Director (with the help of a few Xtras) are still the state-of-the-art for interactive media projects, and when I mentioned such networked 3D interactive apps, they immediatly thought in terms of long expensive development in C/C++ ... JB ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
Re: Does your MC crash too?
Thanks Kevin! Now, that's support! On 13/08/2003 14:31:12 metacard-admin wrote: On 13/8/03 6:27 am, MisterX [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who do we write for support now? [EMAIL PROTECTED] to talk to a human and get help with a problem. If it is a bug report though, that should be filed on our web bug tracking system, visit our site and follow the links to Developer - Submit a bug report. Kevin Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions special offers ~~~ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: The script limits do not come into play so long as there is a licenced Home stack. I thought that standalones were going to be affected by this change? Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Does your MC crash too?
Thanks Ken, Actually, I set an image (not in any group) as a background picture (it doesn't need resizing and no mess with patterns' sizes.) The image was imported in the beginning so it has not changed. There is a second image which servers as a viewer for this image browser. This means the image changes frequently. The only operation that affects the browser image is rotating the image using the angle property and resizing it to fit the window. The background image was never resized or manipulated. I did a blend change because it was nicer. Wop, the stack size jumped from 100KBs (approx) to 3MB... I suspect the image was decompressed for the blend effect. To see if this was the cause of the jump in sizes, I tried to reset the image effect to srcCopy. Saved, no prob but no change in stack size (arghh), so I restored the image blend, I saved and crash! -- In the htmltext problems, I made a stack that downloads a website's images. So in the start I made a preview of the page in a field where the images were nicely displayed. But the stack started crashing on a daily basis. I removed the html preview and no more crashes! Is this a proof? -- Hope this is enough to experience these crashes. Fortunately the script changes of the crashed stacks can be recuperated but the rest of the work is usually lost. On 13/08/2003 08:17:19 metacard-admin wrote: Xavier, If you could post exactly what you're doing that causes the crash, we could try it on our own systems. Images and htmlText with pictures doesn't quite cut it. When you say changed a blend level on a background picture do you mean a group that contains an image with its backgroundBehavior true? Let us know and we can help out... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MisterX Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Does your MC crash too? Hi everyone, Im getting hyperFrustrated due to the amount of crashes I get in MC. For the most part, the one factor that is present in my stacks that seems to cause the crashes is images and htmltext with pictures. It's now 2 weeks Im trying to resolve these without any success. And the number of crashed stacks, LOST HOURS is starting to get on my nerves. Can anyone confirm that they have the same problems? Is there Anywhere or anyone who can explain how to clear correctly an image? In this case, I just changed a blend level on a background picture, save the stack and crash... Stack corrupted AGAIN!!! (french obscene wording like in the matrix skipped for your comfort) ;) Who do we write for support now? cheers Xavier ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metac ard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
RE: Script limit - clarify please - BRAVO!
Kevin, That was one heck of a post... thanks for making it all very clear that it is and has always been RunRev's intent to do the best thing for its customers. Bravo! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Miller Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Script limit - clarify please On 7/8/03 11:07 pm, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly does all of this mean anyway? I cannot distinguish between rumor and fact: - Scott promises the MetaCard IDE will always work with the Revolution engine. Is this his 'wish' or is this in writing somewhere. This is in writing; Rev has stated that publicly that they will continue to allow the MC IDE to continue to work with the new Rev engine. Yes. And I'll state it again here in case there is any confusion. - Revolution promises that the Revolution engine will work with the MetaCard IDE. I see no time frame here. My MetaCard engine could be broken with the next update to Windows or OSX...maybe next week? No, and there's no need for a time frame... it's the *same engine*, just given a new name. When they add features to it for the benefit of Rev users, MC users who wish to continue with the MC IDE can just drop in the new engine and go. Right. So this acquisition means we can, over a period of time, gradually integrate the various language extensions that Revolution has got, and make that available to people who are still using MetaCard. Thus, you can look forward to database access, text to speech, XML, and all the other stuff getting integrated neatly into the language. - Scott promises that the MetaCard IDE is 'open source'. Wasn't it always? No, it was carefully controlled by Scott; any changes you made were for your self and you couldn't make a new version of the MC IDE available for people to download. Now as open source, a number of us can work together to make changes to the IDE and post those changes for download and incorporation. Right. I would recommend that everyone switches over to Revolution and works on providing feedback so we can meet everyone's needs in the Rev IDE, if possible. The reason for this is that it allows as much experience and energy to be directed in the one place. Folks, that¹s why I'm suggesting that. This isn't a conspiracy, we aren't trying to be difficult. Fragmentation simply isn't a good thing at this early phase in the products development. If you switch over and provide feedback, tools and resources for Rev, Revolution gets better faster, we are more successful, and everyone gets a better tool as a result of our being able to upgrade it faster - even people who only use the engine and little of the UI. That said, again, in case there is any confusion, the MC IDE is open source. You can use it now, or tomorrow. We aren't going to break it. - Scott Raney works 'for' Revolution. I doubt that. Well, his email address is now [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Sounds like he works for them to me. Also true. - Revolution takes orders from Scott. I doubt that too. Scott is working with Tuviah at RunRev to increase the capabilities of the product. The direction/marketing/etc. of the product is up to Kevin and others at RunRev. The structure is simple: I'm the CEO, Tuviah is the CTO, and Scott is a long term contractor who isn't going anywhere any time soon. Nothing has changed. This deal has been in the works for a long time. Tuv has being doing a high percentage of engine development for us for some time. The only difference is that Scott now has *substantially* more time to do development, as our marketing and technical support *team* are able to handle those aspects and leave our engineers free to do what they do best. Scott is a super-programmer, and now he has a lot more time to do just that. There is NO upgrade path for current MetaCard users (current license). Also wrong. You can switch over to Rev when it comes time to renew what would be your MC license; at the time of renewal, you get Rev instead. At that time, you can choose to use the Rev IDE, or continue to use the MC IDE... your choice. Right. Another important point to note here: existing customers aren't going to be required to jump through hoops to change over to the new pay per upgrade model where you have to choose what platform you want, etc. You will be able to do that (and if you do you won't be able to come back) but if you prefer, you can stick with the subscription model in largely unmodified form. We will be tougher on allowing people letting their subscriptions lapse, and the price is going to be slightly adjusted together
Shifted field text - what to do?
I have this problem that the field is smaller than the text that is in it. When I tab into the field, the text is highlighted, but pushed off to the left. For example, a field that says United States in it, but unselected shows United S would end up showing d States when it was highlighted. When you tab out of the field, it *leaves* it that way. So I'm trying to do one or both of the following: 1) Keep the text from shifting to the left when it gets highlighted as the cursor enters the field 2) Keep the text from remaining shifted when I tab out of the field (or alternately, be able to restore the text to its original state when it tabs out Any ideas? Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
Robert Brenstein wrote: That is a nice approach if switching scripts was to support multiple functionality. However, it will not work if the 'set script' is used to update a distributed stack to a new version or fix a bug without having to replace the whole stack. Not necesarily. After all, the MC 2.5 engine still runs great so there's no reason an updater couldn't be made with the current engine. Or you could use a frontscript tp trap and reroute messages as needed. Fortunately none of this seems likely to be necessary: with a near 100% consensus against this move I'd be surprised if the proposal is enacted. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: ? How to get the pixel color without relying on mouseColor
On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 14:02, Sparticus Zarris wrote: Please, don't tell me to write a function like this: function convolutedGetPixelColor aPoint set the screenMouseLoc to aPoint get the mouseColor return it end convolutedGetPixelColor Oh go on - let me :) Not done it - but thought that you'd need to use a combination of... using the imagedata property and working out the dimensions of the image (the tricky bit). You can get the original dimensions of the image using the formattedHeight/Width and there is also some feature I could not find in the MC documentation which returns the dimensions of the data returned by the imagedata. function convolutedGetPixelColor apoint, imageName -- something like this ??? put the imageData of image imageName into someImageData put the formattedWidth of image imageName into oWidth -- put the formattedHeight of image imageName into oHeight put (item 1 of apoint) * 8 into endChar put endChar - 8 into startChar put item 2 of apoint into lineNum put (lineNum - 1) * 8 * oWidth into extraBit add extraBit to startChar add extraBit to endChar - now you should have the 8 end convolutedGetPixelColor Hope you get the principle - I have some functions on another machine that work with imagedata if you are still stuck? david ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
mcnews.rev
Hello Scott Rossi and y'all, go stack url http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/mcnews.rev; Excellent work, Scott. The stack works marvelously. It is also very pretty. You are obviously a professional. A tip of the hat to ya! Alain PS: I ran the stack with MetaCard 2.5. I was glad to see that there were no Rev-only features to crash the party. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Launching a local file - NEW SOLUTION
For the benefit of others not using a q function, it's simply: function q s return quotesquote end q Wouldn't this be cool if it was in the engine? ... :-) Ah well... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: survey
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
Just wondering whether the efforts are justified...
How many of you would like me to finish:
a) the enhanced script editor (incl. variable browser) I've made?
b) complete Control Browser (with all properties available for editing
in any object)
c) both a and b
d) you prefer the editor in MC/RR
Survey 2
Assuming these tools work seemesly with (at least) MC
a) it should be freeware (no support guarantee, infrequent updates)
b) it should be shareware (some support for licensees, updates once in a
while)
c) it should be commercial (support + regular updates)
Thanks very much for your answers.
-=-
Xavier Bury
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|
Xavier,
The IDEs provided to us by the RR/MC team one side, by you second side,
are not, for me, the most important parts of what i expect from our,
even, greatfull, development tool of choice ;-/
In the way i'm using RR/MC to develop (80% of three-part networked apps,
20 of statistics reports engines), the power i need comes from what is
available inside Transcript/Metatalk, not how the IDE will help me to
code the handlers. In other words, when my coding is up, it's always, in
the standards RR/MC IDEs, enough power to let me build the end-users GUI
needed to control the apps and the ways they are running and/or
reporting calculations results.
Beside what ('1), i know you did a very great job to provide us the
Xavier's MC GUI and i'm respectfully of that but i hope you can
understand friendly my position.
Beside what ('2) and because i don't have time to build them myself, i'm
looking for two unavailable tools, to be build from ground in
Transcript/Metatalk... and i would pay lots (aka US $ 500, each) to have
them available for a professional-grade use. The first tool i need is an
app dedicated to build, from a RR/MC front-end app, great *NIX
Firewalls, including multiple boxes solutions (IPTables, DMZ and
such...). The second app i would pay for, if it could be done available
: a Nessus/Saint clone, able to let me scan and control all the
components of my networked processes, including over IP datas serving
and corporate LAN management. Because the *NIX security management is
still far from beeing a piece of cake, i believe it could be a
interesting market for such kind of RR/MC apps.
Hope this help.
--
Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores
Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI)
Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif
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Re: Launching a local file in the default browser #3
At 9:45 +0200 8/9/03, sims wrote: If I use: set this_item to ¬ alias Macintosh HD:Users:jimsims:Pictures:iPhoto Library:2002:10:29:taufeg.jpg tell application Internet Explorer open this_item end tell A file which I created with ColorIt or PhotoShop will launch with the indicated browser. I suspect that the alias has some magical powers. Is that what you are looking for? NOTE - I never actually create an alias nor does applescript create an alias (as far as I can tell) but it uses it as some sort of reference to enable the launch. atb sims -- --- http://EZPZapps.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Software - Internet Development - Consulting ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
El 8/8/2003 15:22, jbv escribió: And BTW again, did anyone contact Kevin privately about this script limit thing, as suggested in his original message ? And did anyone get an answer ? I'm not so interested in the content of the answer, but much more in knowing if any answer has been received... JB I did it the same day he posted, but no answer until this moment. Seems that 'old' days when you got an answer in hours are gone. Jose L. Rodriguez ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
If you set up a video stream - I can toast you from here (London)! Monte can join us for breakfast (Australia) and Chipp - how about some live action footage from the ranche ? On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 01:05, Monte Goulding wrote: Yes it made me green with envy given OZ-RUG has a grand total of 4 members all with an average of about 1500km between each ;-) PS Anyone wanting to join OZ-RUG (which has big plans for expansion ;-) can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oz-rug Regards Monte Lemme know when ya'll be in Austin :-)!!! Wish I could be there :-( -Chipp NB - anyone used a player control for playback of a live QuickTime stream yet? ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script limit - clarify please - BRAVO!
Ken Ray wrote: Kevin, That was one heck of a post... thanks for making it all very clear that it is and has always been RunRev's intent to do the best thing for its customers. Bravo! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ The same there, Kevin ! Thanks a lot. I'm, more and more, thinking that we have just to go head, all together and welcome to the next years... Bravo, again ! Best Regards to the RunRev's Rockers Team, you too, Scott :-) -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI) Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif Let me join with the thanks for making a clear and exhaustive statement, Kevin. I am glad to hear that my fears were unfounded and the interests of this group are important to Rev. Robert Brenstein ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
Mark Talluto wrote: On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 09:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Mark Talluto wrote: In my case, I usually am updating code to controls with the set the script of There is no other way to use the same control with new code. While I agree that the proposed change to script limits is likely more of a problem in itself than a solution, there is at lease one other alternative for your scenario. Rather than writing self-modifying code you could set a property in the object and handle the various behaviors in a backscript using a switch block: on MySpecialBehavior switch the uBehaviorClass of the target case Something doSomnething break case SomethingElse doSomethingElse break end switch end MySpecialBehavior The overhead of the switch block is a fraction of a millisecond and allows you to centralize your code into a common library. This may simplify debugging, and likely simplify maintenance as well should you ever need to alter the behavior. Good idea Richard! I would need to have the ability to set the script of one more time to update all their controls to use this new method though. I better not delete my copy of MC 2.5 just yet. I have yet to use the frontscript/backscript features. Bring your questions to the next revDevCon and let's see if we can shorten that learning cycle. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Launching a local file
Ken Ray wrote: GURL is no longer supported in OS X. I originally thought the same thing until Hugh suggested it again and I tested it... seems to work for me (OS X 10.2.6). But does it work with local files? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
MC/RR and Email launching
I am presently Mac-less :( Could one of you let me know if this works on both flavours? put "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" into tURL if the platform is "MacOS" then get the systemversion set the itemdel to "." if item 1 of it = 10 then # OS X put "open location" quote tURL quote into tScript do tScript as AppleScript else # MacOS send tUrl to program "Finder" with "GURLGURL" end if end if Many thanks! /H
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
If you set up a video stream - I can toast you from here (London)! Monte can join us for breakfast (Australia) and Chipp - how about some live action footage from the ranche ? Sure, but there's not much live action here considering it was 106 degrees F outside. Even the horses were looking for shade ;-) ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Does your MC crash too?
On 13/8/03 6:27 am, MisterX [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who do we write for support now? [EMAIL PROTECTED] to talk to a human and get help with a problem. If it is a bug report though, that should be filed on our web bug tracking system, visit our site and follow the links to Developer - Submit a bug report. Kevin Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions special offers ~~~ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Launching a local file in the default browser
sims wrote: If I use: set this_item to ¬ alias Macintosh HD:Users:jimsims:Pictures:iPhoto Library:2002:10:29:taufeg.jpg tell application Internet Explorer open this_item end tell A file which I created with ColorIt or PhotoShop will launch with the indicated browser. I suspect that the alias has some magical powers. That will open fine in IE, but what if the user's default browser is Safari? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Does your MC crash too?
Yes, I have a similar problem. I am told however that it is due to the memory management of the OS, which I believe since OS architecture was designed around supporting Kbytes of memory and drive space and now has to support Mbytes and GBytes. Not only HTML images but the MC help stacks also do this. Rev incidentally also does this, only more often! So I'm planning to get a mac rev license in the hope that this problem is confined to the PC platform. Ideas? I have not solved this problem because this is my work-machine and my sysadmin is already nervous enough about me knowing more about the system and trying to push it to its limits. So I don't want to get under her skin by saying Hey, can we do a clean install of the OS in case there is an OS problem? My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
re: Drawers
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 Tuviah M Snyder [EMAIL PROTECTED] in response to my post drawers wrote: Create three drawer stacks whose sum of heights is the height of the base stack (or otherwise, if you like). It is possible..it hasn't been documented for some reason drawer x1 at right,top in stack parent drawer x2 at right,center in stack parent drawer x3 at right,top in stack parent Same goes for other directions where the syntax is drawer [at pintoside,[alignment]] So you can have multiple drawers on one side. Tuviah Snyder Runtime Revolution Limited Thanks, Tuviah, for the response to my request to further improve the new drawer command. Looking over the sample stacks we provide for our students being introduced to Metacard/Revolution I found the following scripts that simulate drawers (with stacks) and that - unlike the solution with changing the width of the drawer stack in my last post - provides a visual effect moving the drawer from underneath to full exposure: Script in the drawer base ( the calling stack): on opencard open invisible stack drawer1 open invisible stack drawer2 open invisible stack drawer3 end opencard Button for drawer 1 on the drawer base (set the topright of drawer 2 and 3 accordingly) on mouseUp put the topright of this stack into cornerRight set the topright of stack drawer1 to cornerRight lock screen #necessary to prevent the flickering when setting vis to true set the vis of stack drawer1 to true go to stack drawer2-base # set the calling stack to top so that the drawer will not appear # above the calling stack, but appear underneath the calling stack unlock screen repeat with i = 1 to 254 add 1 to item 1 of cornerRight set the topright of stack drawer1 to cornerRight wait 1 milliseconds end repeat end mouseUp Closing the drawers of course the other way round. If you want to have this visual effect of a drawer being opened and closed like a real drawer, it is important to first open the drawers invisibly, and then take care that the drawers start from underneath the base stack and prevent that flickering that occurs when the vis of the drawer is set the true. Tuviah, although the undocumented parts of the drawer command you provide are indeed an improvement in a direction I had in mind, I think it is worth mentioning what solutions we have found. Our common goal, without reservation, is to improve Metacard/Revolution. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Windows Version Numbers
On Wednesday, August 13, 2003, at 04:12 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: After some testing, the client found that my project failed on some variations of Windows 98 and Windows ME (the client has a fairly extensive QA department). Apparently these Windows variations return systemVersions other than 4.10 and 4.90. The way I seemed to have solved the problem was to compare number *ranges* in the systemVersion, instead of exact values: put word 2 of the systemVersion into V if word 1 of the systemVersion = Windows then switch case V=4 and V4.1 put Windows 95 into tVersion break case V=4.1 and V4.9 put Windows 98 into tVersion break case V=4.9 put Windows ME into tVersion end switch else switch case V=4 and V5 put Windows NT into tVersion break case V=5 and V5.1 put Windows 2000 into tVersion break case V=5.1 put Windows XP into tVersion end switch end if Thanks for the info Scott. I have filed this away. Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: MC/RR and Email launching - windows?
i use postie.exe a simple shell call... I get hourly checkups or immediate warnings in the mail and daily system status! get shell(start /t cmd.exe postie...) Usage: postie [-host:server] [-port:service] [-news [-noarchive]] [-to:address | -tolist:filename] [-cc:address | -cclist:filename] [-bcc:address | -bcclist:fi lename] -from:address [-repltyto:address] [-verify] [-s:subject] [-import|-t] [- ns] [-file:filename] [-rm] [-nomsg | -msg:text] [-html [-alt]] [-config] [-a:fil ename ...] [-dir:dirname] Usage: postie [-host:server] [-port:service] [-imap [-mbox:name]] -user:userid - pass:password [-file:filename [-extract:[path]] [-msg:nbr] [-exec:cmd] [-br] [-r m] Usage: postie [-connect:string | -disconnect:string] [-noop] [options...] You can get postie anywhere - google postie.zip download Common PC Command line tools like the MS Resource kits are also really useful in MC for use id and other things. You can also use WSH but it's not secure if you know what i mean... ;) - For those who kept reading, the best tip for using the shell commands and avoid hanging MC waiting for an answer is to use a start before your command line. start /i cmd your command line and using logs to track progress. Type start /? in a cmd.exe shell to see the options... you can catch the output by piping it to a file and are what do these in a file.cmd. - Watch the quoting in parameters: if the path or name of a parameter contains a space or or @ etc... you get an error! [This is heavenly when using dynamic scripting and time is not that important compared to script clarity or elegance!] - Make sure you directory global points to a valid drive before using the Shell() function. Is there a linux equivalent to postie? I feel it's a dumb question but... cheers Xavier ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Does your MC crash too?
In response to Xavier's image display and crash problem, Xbury writes: To me part of the problem seems that the allocation of the image space in the stack is not "solid" - it is not compactable it seems for one, and once an image is decompressed, that's it, you're stuck with that size... Is this due to either a flaw in code or the emptying of the image? It's a fact that no one seems to know HOW to empty an image (or imagedata)." If this is the case, instead of updating the imagedata try deleting the old image and creating a new one on the fly. Should avoid the problem altogether. /H
Re: mcnews.rev
On 8/11/03 5:32 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: Recently, Alain Farmer wrote: go stack url http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/mcnews.rev; I ran the stack with MetaCard 2.5. I was glad to see that there were no Rev-only features to crash the party. On my end, I continue to work in MC and save in Rev. The engines are identical, but contrary to what others have posted on the lists, I believe an MC stack must be saved from within Rev to make it Rev-compatible. I have often open MC stacks in Rev only to find they cannot be selected or moved, and others have noted similar problems with my earlier stacks (I'm thinking this might be due to some windowShape issue but haven't had time to track it down). To date, opening an MC-built stack within Rev and saving has worked consistently for me. I've seen the same thing often, sometimes with the native stacks that ship with Rev. It has to do with the file type and creator codes in OS X, but I haven't been able to quite pin it down. Sometimes reassigning the codes with a third-party utility makes the stacks visible in the Rev open file dialog, but occasionally even that doesn't work. I'm not sure it's entirely a Rev thing; I'm more inclined to blame the Finder. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
No, if you mean running a stack under Rev GUI. Standalones are not licensed, so, yes, they all will be affected. May be we will have licensing for standalones as well one of these days :) Robert Oh god, don't give them any ideas! You want them to charge us MORE to create extra licensing? Pay once for the tools to create the software you want to develop, and pay again once you create it, so that it will run? No.! Bite your tongue! (My friend Robert, a C programmer not on this list, calls me his best worst case scenario person. If he wants to know the worst that could happen, he calls me. He runs the situation by me. And without effort, my first thoughts are the Worst That Could Happen If... He finds this useful, for some strange reason, and often calls me with Life Questions :-) Shari -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits vs dynamic programming
On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 22:31, Dr. John R. Vokey wrote: Thus, rather being an essential part of metacard/RR, this dynamism becomes a feature *only* licensed users (developers?) can use, but can't retain in the stacks they produce. for some, at least me, it is the dynamism that is my whole reason for using metacard, recommending it to students, and so on. John R. Vokey For me as well - it is the whole reason I chose metacard over other options. Now I have to add the other reason that my business (selling solutions to goverment and NGO's) is based on an open source strategy for which I am keen (working with the people on and off the list) to help build an open source community around the langauge. The community is currently a little small and not yet working together on coding projects very actively, but this can be changed and grow. To grow the community there must be a free downloadable product (the demo or a stacks running from a standlaone that I create), which can allow people to start to get involved. This requires that you can do do some limited coding in the tools that are distributed. This is what is being removed ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Does your MC crash too?
Yes, I have a similar problem. I am told however that it is due to the memory management of the OS, which I believe since OS architecture was designed around supporting Kbytes of memory and drive space and now has to support Mbytes and GBytes. Not only HTML images but the MC help stacks also do this. Rev incidentally also does this, only more often! So I'm planning to get a mac rev license in the hope that this problem is confined to the PC platform. Ideas? I've had crashes happen frequently in stacks that require a lot of memory. Even though Metacard can grab more memory if it needs it, I've found that for those stacks, Metacard's memory must be set to a fairly high number in the Get Info box (Mac OS). I don't know if Windows has the same offering. Where you can adjust the memory setting of a program. Now instead of crashing with a Type 2 error * every time I try to use the stack *, it only crashes if I've been in and out of several stacks that use bunches of memory. (Yes, all the stacks are set to be forgotten on close. So the data should not linger in memory, but it does.) I've found that sometimes the data lingers in memory even after I've totally quit out of Metacard. And causes everything I do thereafter to hang. The best fix then is to reboot the computer to clear it all out. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
? How to get the pixel color without relying on mouseColor
It seems unusual that there is a function to get the color of the pixel under the mouse, but no function to get the color of an arbitrary pixel. I'm _sure_ there must be something like: get the color of pixel 240,360 which would put the triplet 0,0,0 into it, if (240,360) is a black pixel, or 255,255,255 into it if (240,360) is a white pixel. Please, don't tell me to write a function like this: function convolutedGetPixelColor aPoint set the screenMouseLoc to aPoint get the mouseColor return it end convolutedGetPixelColor Why would this be stupid? Obviously, because if I need to iterated over a _Large_ range of pixels, the user might get worried something had gone wrong, and bump/wiggle his cursor to see if the computer had frozen. Having wiggled the cursor, he just set the mouseLoc to a different Loc halfway through my giant repeat loop that checks all the pixels. So, please tell me I'm missing some function that does the Right Thing, and not that mouseColor screenMouseLoc is the _wonderful_ Meta way of doing it. Sparticus Zarris 1208 Clark Street New Albany, Indiana 47150 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (812) 944-1042 phone -- Aye Net WebMail 2.0 http://www.aye.net/getmail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 09:40, Robert Brenstein wrote: What I meant in my earlier post is that maybe Rev can introduce procedure to lift these limits for specific projects (they could review them to ensure that the app can't be used to bypass their licensing and thus reduce sales) for a reasonable additional fee. That would be a step forwards in my mind, comparing to the current situation. This would not affect standalones as they are now. I think this is a great idea. As an example the Open Source IDE could be granted such a licence. This is a bit like the duel licencing of open source technologies, where a foundation reserves the right to sell one off licences to developers who want to distribute closed source products that use their open source code. This leaves the control firmly in RunRev's hands, while leaving some flexibility (and even encouragement) for innovative products that would help to extend market share. NB: a danger is that such arrangements are only temporary and the rug can be pulled away as and when RunRev require. I licence with a long enough time-out period would sort this issue for most developers / participants. ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Launching a local file in the default browser
Er... I guess I should probably get some sleep: my solution has this problem also for files that don't normally open in a browser. If there's not a better way, you could work around this by creating a dummy HTML file that just redirects the browser to the correct file. That'll get you in the right app, *then* open the file. There must be a better way buried somewhere in AppleScript... Brian Same here: it launches the local file, but in the application that matches the file's creator code and not the default browser. :( ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: A task for Binary decode?
Rodney,
At first glance, the data looks like octal (base 8), and therefore
I'd be tempted to use baseconvert to convert it to base 10...
For instance :
put baseconvert(377, 8, 10) -- 255
But I'm somewhat puzzled by things like Exif or MM in the
code...
JB
Hi everyone,
I need to convert some data received from a postgreSQL database back
into recognizable binary data. The data was written there by a
JDBC/Java application, and it appears that it stores the binary data in
octets - but this is new territory for me so I am hoping someone more
knowledgible here can help.
I'm retrieving this data using Revolution's database library.
I wonder whether binaryDecode or (possibly even) the convertOctals
property could be useful in converting this data back into recognizable
binary data. Any ideas?
I am still trying to get the PostgreSQL database to allow me to upload
blobs from Revolution, but so far without success...
Thanks very much.
~Rodney
(going to bed as is 4.30am, and although I enjoy programming in
Revolution a lot... well, there are limits!)
-- sample of data
\377\330\377\341\025\342Exif\000\000MM\000*\000\000\000\010\000\014\001\
017\000\002\000\000\000\006\000\000\000\236\001\020\000\002\000\000\000\
023\000\000\000\244\001\022\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\001\000\000\001\
022\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\001\000\000\001\032\000\005\000\000\000\
001\000\000\000\270\001\033\000\005\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\300\001(
\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\002\000\000\0011\000\002\000\000\000\016\00
0\000\000\310\0012\000\002\000\000\000\024\000\000\000\326\001\000\002\
000\000\000\020\000\000\000\352\002\023\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\001\
000\000\207i\000\004\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\372\000\000\003\240Cano
n\000Canon PowerShot
G3\000\000\000\264\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\264\000\000\000\001\000\0
00QuickTime 6.1\0002003:08:03 17:56:50\000Mac OS X
-- sample of jdbc code used to write the object:
(I think this code is right, but - well - possibly not the latest
version, let me know if you are interested and
I will check)
Postgres supports inserting blobs through JDBC like Oracle:
CREATE TABLE images (imgname text, img bytea);
To insert an image, you would use:
File file = new File(myimage.gif);
FileInputStream fis = new FileInputStream(file);
PreparedStatement ps = conn.prepareStatement(INSERT INTO images VALUES
(?, ?));
ps.setString(1, file.getName());
ps.setBinaryStream(2, fis, file.length());
ps.executeUpdate();
ps.close();
fis.close();
To retrieve it you:
PreparedStatement ps = con.prepareStatement(SELECT img FROM images
WHERE
imgname=?);
ps.setString(1, myimage.gif);
ResultSet rs = ps.executeQuery();
if (rs != null) {
while(rs.next()) {
byte[] imgBytes = rs.getBytes(1);
// use the stream in some way here
}
rs.close();
}
ps.close();
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Re: MC OpenGL (update)
On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 10:00, Tuviah M Snyder wrote: WW4 Bush hasn't started WW3 yet, give him some time. Please contact me offlist at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to work with you on this. Which feature Tuviah - WW3 or the OpenGL thing? ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limit
At 10:42 AM -0700 8/7/03, Dr. John R. Vokey wrote: I'd urge people to drop a line to Kevin if this change would impact their products, describing how you use the capability. I can't speak for Kevin but I know he listens carefully to concerns of current customers when changes are being considered. Good advice *if one is producing ``products'', i.e., applications that just so happen to be written in metacard , but could have been done in c or BASIC)* I, however, produce extensible ``stacks''---following the original hypercard model--- that I freely exchange with my students and colleagues. I don't understand what you mean by this. Your extensible stacks are your products. (Product does not mean commercial product, nor is it restricted to standalone applications.) It sounds from your description like your products would in fact impact the products you make, so my suggestion of discussing this with Kevin is still my advice. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought http://www.runrev.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: survey
Title: Message Xavier, I generally prefer the editor in MC/RR, but I have used your script editor several times, so I'd have to say (D), then (A) (if that makes any sense). As to whether it should be freeware, etc. that should be your call. Obviously if it's freeware, more people are likely to use it (since it's an alternative to what they've already got and not something completely new). Thanks for asking, Ken RaySons of Thunder SoftwareEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:56 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: surveyHi all, Just wondering whether the efforts are justified... How many of you would like me to finish: a) the enhanced script editor (incl. variable browser) I've made? b) complete Control Browser (with all properties available for editing in any object) c) both a and b d) you prefer the editor in MC/RR Survey 2 Assuming these tools work seemesly with (at least) MC a) it should be freeware (no support guarantee, infrequent updates) b) it should be shareware (some support for licensees, updates once in a while) c) it should be commercial (support + regular updates) Thanks very much for your answers. -=-Xavier BuryTNS NT LAN Serverext 6465Visit us at http://www.clearstream.comIMPORTANT MESSAGEInternet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.END OF DISCLAIMER
Re: Drawers
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 J. Landman Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to have this visual effect of a drawer being opened and closed like a real drawer, it is important to first open the drawers invisibly, and then take care that the drawers start from underneath the base stack and prevent that flickering that occurs when the vis of the drawer is set the true. I may not understand what you mean, but when I use the drawer command, the stack animates and slides out exactly like the ones in Apple's applications. There is a smooth glide from closed to open. The drawer command slides the stack out. A hide stack myStack command slides it back in. Once the stack is set to be a drawer, you can just use show stack myStack to slide it open again. There doesn't seem to be any need to manually adjust the position of the stack as it slides open. The stack also appears underneath the main stack. This is all with version 2.1 beta, of course. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay I was asked to share examples of how we simulated drawers - as it were - before the advent of the latest command. Some of the examples I mentioned or pointed to were about two years old. The specific script with the sliding effect from our sample stack you refer to was written one and a half years ago; so it anyway shows the rich potential of Metacard even without the new drawer command. Now, with the new command, I do not get here any sliding effect. The drawer stacks simply open. Maybe there is a sliding effect, but it is not visible for me. Is there maybe another undocumented feature that can slow down the showing of the drawer as in visual effects? This is on Windows with Metacard 2.5.1B2. At the moment I do not have access to my Mac to try out, but in two days I will use it again. What platform do you have that shows this sliding effect? Regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: SoCal RevDevCon: August 26
Yes it made me green with envy given OZ-RUG has a grand total of 4 members all with an average of about 1500km between each ;-) PS Anyone wanting to join OZ-RUG (which has big plans for expansion ;-) can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oz-rug Regards Monte Lemme know when ya'll be in Austin :-)!!! Wish I could be there :-( -Chipp The next Southern California RevDevCon will be on Tuesday, August 26, at 7pm here at the Fourth World Embassy in downtown Los Angeles. These RevDevCons are small informal gatherings of Revolution and MetaCard developers in which we talk code, solve problems, and enjoy the rare treat of seeing listees in person. The agenda for the meeting: 7:00 - 7:30: Introductions, gab about code. 7:30 - 8:30: We'll walk 50 yards to the restaurant in this complex, Barabara's (which has an excellent wine list) for dinner and more gabbing. 8:30 - ?: We return to the Embassy where Geoff Canyon will give a presentation about some cool new stuff he's been working on, after which we'll gab some more and eventually call it a night. If you'd like to attend just show up. If you need directions drop me an email and I'll send 'em to you. At the moment I know Ken Ray will be there, as well as Geoff and myself of course. With any luck we'll have at least our half-dozen regulars and hopefully a few newcomers as well. See ya' then -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Software Design and Development for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the Web [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717AIM: FourthWorldInc Fax: 323-225-0716 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: mcnews.rev
Richard Gaskin wrote: Scott Rossi wrote: On my end, I continue to work in MC and save in Rev. The engines are identical, but contrary to what others have posted on the lists, I believe an MC stack must be saved from within Rev to make it Rev-compatible. I got the same bug under OSX 10.2.6 but not under Linux, where the direct saving of MC stacks to Rev's ones works fine. That would be a bug. If it affects the IDEs in that way it may affect your work. Another great benefit of having multiple IDEs: It keeps the engine well-tested and the environments clean. -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI) Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script limit - clarify please
RCS wrote: The MetaCard IDE depends on several features that Revolution is taking out (or deciding to). Which ones? I'm not familiar with such proposed changes. Revolution will NOT maintain the MetaCard engine (i.e. to be compatible with the Revolution changes). Revolution will NOT update the MetaCard engine with bug fixes, even for current license holders. It's the same engine. There is NO upgrade path for current MetaCard users (current license). As announced, the upgrade path seems quite favorable for MC users, in which we can continue to use MC if we like and we also get a Rev license to drop into that IDE whenever we need. Scott Raney is on a beach somewhere...never to be heard from again. I had an email exchange with im just last week. I'm as distracted by the rate of change here as anyone else, but it does not clarify things to move forward on the assumption that Scott Raney and the folks at RunRev are all liars. Let's take their assurances of continued support for the MC IDE at face value until we have some solid reason to believe otherwise. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script limit - clarify please
On 7/8/03 11:07 pm, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly does all of this mean anyway? I cannot distinguish between rumor and fact: - Scott promises the MetaCard IDE will always work with the Revolution engine. Is this his 'wish' or is this in writing somewhere. This is in writing; Rev has stated that publicly that they will continue to allow the MC IDE to continue to work with the new Rev engine. Yes. And I'll state it again here in case there is any confusion. - Revolution promises that the Revolution engine will work with the MetaCard IDE. I see no time frame here. My MetaCard engine could be broken with the next update to Windows or OSX...maybe next week? No, and there's no need for a time frame... it's the *same engine*, just given a new name. When they add features to it for the benefit of Rev users, MC users who wish to continue with the MC IDE can just drop in the new engine and go. Right. So this acquisition means we can, over a period of time, gradually integrate the various language extensions that Revolution has got, and make that available to people who are still using MetaCard. Thus, you can look forward to database access, text to speech, XML, and all the other stuff getting integrated neatly into the language. - Scott promises that the MetaCard IDE is 'open source'. Wasn't it always? No, it was carefully controlled by Scott; any changes you made were for your self and you couldn't make a new version of the MC IDE available for people to download. Now as open source, a number of us can work together to make changes to the IDE and post those changes for download and incorporation. Right. I would recommend that everyone switches over to Revolution and works on providing feedback so we can meet everyone's needs in the Rev IDE, if possible. The reason for this is that it allows as much experience and energy to be directed in the one place. Folks, that¹s why I'm suggesting that. This isn't a conspiracy, we aren't trying to be difficult. Fragmentation simply isn't a good thing at this early phase in the products development. If you switch over and provide feedback, tools and resources for Rev, Revolution gets better faster, we are more successful, and everyone gets a better tool as a result of our being able to upgrade it faster - even people who only use the engine and little of the UI. That said, again, in case there is any confusion, the MC IDE is open source. You can use it now, or tomorrow. We aren't going to break it. - Scott Raney works 'for' Revolution. I doubt that. Well, his email address is now [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Sounds like he works for them to me. Also true. - Revolution takes orders from Scott. I doubt that too. Scott is working with Tuviah at RunRev to increase the capabilities of the product. The direction/marketing/etc. of the product is up to Kevin and others at RunRev. The structure is simple: I'm the CEO, Tuviah is the CTO, and Scott is a long term contractor who isn't going anywhere any time soon. Nothing has changed. This deal has been in the works for a long time. Tuv has being doing a high percentage of engine development for us for some time. The only difference is that Scott now has *substantially* more time to do development, as our marketing and technical support *team* are able to handle those aspects and leave our engineers free to do what they do best. Scott is a super-programmer, and now he has a lot more time to do just that. There is NO upgrade path for current MetaCard users (current license). Also wrong. You can switch over to Rev when it comes time to renew what would be your MC license; at the time of renewal, you get Rev instead. At that time, you can choose to use the Rev IDE, or continue to use the MC IDE... your choice. Right. Another important point to note here: existing customers aren't going to be required to jump through hoops to change over to the new pay per upgrade model where you have to choose what platform you want, etc. You will be able to do that (and if you do you won't be able to come back) but if you prefer, you can stick with the subscription model in largely unmodified form. We will be tougher on allowing people letting their subscriptions lapse, and the price is going to be slightly adjusted together with the support options, but other than that, you'll be able to get both MC and Rev for the one price, and do as you have always done. The cross-grade is available from our online store. Scott Raney is on a beach somewhere...never to be heard from again. Nope; he's working on the MC/Rev engine, and has posted to the list several times. I can assure you he is very much present. Am I close? Sorry, not by a long shot... Excuse my copying two posts together here: Richard Gaskin wrote: Fortunately none of this seems likely to be necessary: with a near 100% consensus against this move I'd be surprised if the proposal is enacted. I clearly
Re: Script Limits
jbv wrote: I remember in HC and OMO using scripts of controls to hold data. In case scripts of controls in MC are used for the same purpose (holding data, and not executable code), could custom props be a nice workaround ? More than a workaround, there are many advantages: - Custom properties can hold any data, even binary. - You can have as many custom props as you like in any object. - You can have any number of custom property sets in any object. For example you could store your user prefs in a stackfile that has a custom property set for each user, with each pref item stored as a property within that set, e.g.: ask Please login: put it into tUserName set the customPropertySet of stack PrefsStack to tUserName get the uSetupInfo of stack PrefsStack -- it now contains the value of the uSetupInfo of the -- property set which matches the login name, with each login -- name havings its own parallel set of props. - You can use array notation for custom properties, useful for numeric indexing or stepping through a list of keys, e.g,: put the hilitedtext of fld Users into tUserList repeat for each line tUser in tUserList put the uUserStats[tUser] of btn Data cr after tReport end repeat put tReport into fld Login Report - It leaves the object's script free to contain code without having to worry about altering data. Custom properties are a very powerful feature of not only Rev but other xTalks as well, including ToolBook, Gain Momentum, and SuperCard. Well worth taking an evening to experiment with... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
No, if you mean running a stack under Rev GUI. Standalones are not licensed, so, yes, they all will be affected. May be we will have licensing for standalones as well one of these days :) Robert Oh god, don't give them any ideas! You want them to charge us MORE to create extra licensing? Pay once for the tools to create the software you want to develop, and pay again once you create it, so that it will run? No.! Bite your tongue! The idea is not really new per se. If I want to use do without 10-line restriction in a standalone, I need to buy the embedded engine license, which costs way too much to be practical for people like myself. Finding (the hard way) those 'set script' and 'do' limits in standalones was my biggest disappointment when I moved from Hypercard. In most cases, some workaround was possible but I still have a big project on a shelf that can't be realized in MC because of the 'do' limit (it was discussed on this list some time ago). What I meant in my earlier post is that maybe Rev can introduce procedure to lift these limits for specific projects (they could review them to ensure that the app can't be used to bypass their licensing and thus reduce sales) for a reasonable additional fee. That would be a step forwards in my mind, comparing to the current situation. This would not affect standalones as they are now. Of course, Shari, your worry is somewhat justified. Rev may see this as money-making opportunity -- set all limits to 0 and lift/increase them only for a fee. If them setting the first limit to 0 is the first step in that direction, they probably thought about it already though. The most worrisome of all of this is that we can't be ever sure anymore that whatever we have / they promise will last. Taking away dynamic setting of scripts is a big step backwards and removal of a major feature which was taken for granted so far. It also reduces further the utility of standalones for a number of projects. Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
Mark Talluto wrote: In the non-password-protected stack, all three text strings are readable. In the password-protected stack none of them are. It seems a change was introduced in the engine at some point that now provides complete protection for all three types of data storage. I just did another test in MC 2.5: While it is true that the data is safe in a text editor, it is not safe when you do the following: Try opening that stack you created in MC. You can not get to the script data, but you can surely open up the custom property and read what you put in there. Good point. But while there mare good reasons to have self-modifying scripts, I'm not sure that having script space double as data storage is the optimal answer. Ironically the habit began with users of HC and OMO, neither of which provided options for protecting scripts at all Maybe better would be a development-level password protection: when the devPasskey is set, before a stack can be opened in any IDE it would need to have a matching devPassword. Of course one could build their own IDE, but if the data's that interesting it really needs something stronger than the engine's DES-based encryption anyway. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Drawers
Hi Wilhelm, ... Now, with the new command, I do not get here any sliding effect. The drawer stacks simply open. Maybe there is a sliding effect, but it is not visible for me. Is there maybe another undocumented feature that can slow down the showing of the drawer as in visual effects? This is on Windows with Metacard 2.5.1B2. ??? Did you rename the revolution beta engine to metacard and put it into the .app/Contents/MacOS/ ? Ooops, sorry, you mention windows... Did you just rename (beta) rev.exe to mc.exe? Thanks in advance for the info :-) ... Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.major-k.de ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC OpenGL (update)
On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 15:50, jbv wrote: I had a look at 3D Lingo (I dropped Director around version 4, andit made me feel strange to go back to this crappy sprite stuff)... Please don't take it personal, but it's the typical example of what I'd like to avoid... Snap - left around the same time :) Still go with the users... makes it easier for them to follow you. is Blender cross-platform ? Used to be windows + linux pre-open source. Web site claims that the new open source release is OS independent - which is future speak i believe. Any useful link for that ? http://www.blender.org/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Does your MC crash too?
Weird cause Im using windows with some 750 MB's of ram (*1.2 swap files) MC usually doesn't go beyond 30MB's of ram usage (go figure for what!) To me part of the problem seems that the allocation of the image space in the stack is not "solid" - it is not compactable it seems for one, and once an image is decompressed, that's it, you're stuck with that size... Well, I'm not sure if this is gonna help, but I have the feeling it's a memory problem. I always develop my stacks on Mac (OS 9 so far) and when I do multiple successive "set filename of img 1" (for an img control used as background graphic), it seems that previous content of that img control isn't purged from memory, and that successive replacements finally crash the app. Perhaps is it related to the fact that the "always buffer" prop of that img is set to true... I don't know... I also noticed that "set filename of img 1 to empty" before setting filename to another file leads to less crashes. I only experienced these problems in edit mode. In standalones everything's works perfect... JB
RE: Script limit - clarify please
What exactly does all of this mean anyway? I cannot distinguish between rumor and fact: - Scott promises the MetaCard IDE will always work with the Revolution engine. Is this his 'wish' or is this in writing somewhere. This is in writing; Rev has stated that publicly that they will continue to allow the MC IDE to continue to work with the new Rev engine. - Revolution promises that the Revolution engine will work with the MetaCard IDE. I see no time frame here. My MetaCard engine could be broken with the next update to Windows or OSX...maybe next week? No, and there's no need for a time frame... it's the *same engine*, just given a new name. When they add features to it for the benefit of Rev users, MC users who wish to continue with the MC IDE can just drop in the new engine and go. - Scott promises that the MetaCard IDE is 'open source'. Wasn't it always? No, it was carefully controlled by Scott; any changes you made were for your self and you couldn't make a new version of the MC IDE available for people to download. Now as open source, a number of us can work together to make changes to the IDE and post those changes for download and incorporation. - Scott Raney works 'for' Revolution. I doubt that. Well, his email address is now [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Sounds like he works for them to me. - Revolution takes orders from Scott. I doubt that too. Scott is working with Tuviah at RunRev to increase the capabilities of the product. The direction/marketing/etc. of the product is up to Kevin and others at RunRev. This is what I have interpereted from all of this (and my general 'gut' feeling): The MetaCard IDE is open source (a lot of good that does for me...really). Maybe not; it depends on how you choose to invest your time. The MetaCard IDE depends on several features that Revolution is taking out (or deciding to). No, as long as what Rev takes out is not reflected by anything in the IDE. For example, if they chose to remove the popup button style from buttons (which of course it not going to happen), the MC properties palette would need to be adjusted to match. However in the short-to-medium term, it looks like the things RunRev is taking OUT is almost nil. Discussions about removing the scriptlimits has been the only thing so far, and that wouldn't affect the IDE. Revolution will NOT maintain the MetaCard engine (i.e. to be compatible with the Revolution changes). Revolution will NOT update the MetaCard engine with bug fixes, even for current license holders. No, since the MetaCard engine is really the Revolution engine. Rev won't maintain the MC *IDE*, but the underlying engine is what is being enhanced by RunRev and will continue to be avialble for MC users (as I described above). There is NO upgrade path for current MetaCard users (current license). Also wrong. You can switch over to Rev when it comes time to renew what would be your MC license; at the time of renewal, you get Rev instead. At that time, you can choose to use the Rev IDE, or continue to use the MC IDE... your choice. Scott Raney is on a beach somewhere...never to be heard from again. Nope; he's working on the MC/Rev engine, and has posted to the list several times. Am I close? Sorry, not by a long shot... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 14:12, jbv wrote: And BTW again, did anyone contact Kevin privately about this script limit thing, as suggested in his original message ? And did anyone get an answer ? I'm not so interested in the content of the answer, but much more in knowing if any answer has been received... yes I did - and no answer yet. It is the Edinburgh festival though :) PS: if such big differences exists between MC and Rev users, why don't we (MC users) get organised as an (informal) think tank Yes - for me this would be the same thing as a group of open source developers using MC based collaborative tools - to develop code libraries and recoommend which features should be incorporated into the engine.The lead open source developers would provide the role and feedback that RunRev / Scott require. ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits
On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Shari wrote: What would this affect? Presumably if we create a standalone, and distribute it, this would affect scripts within the standalone, correct? It is my understanding that these are OK. The limit of 0 for standalones would apply to 'set the script of ... during the execution of the standalone. If you don't do that in your scripts, then you are OK. Right now a standalone can have unlimited lines in the script, but not in a do command. I don't know about other folks, but I use the do command a LOT in my standalones. Even with the 10 line limit. It is not clear to me what the 'do' limit will be. I expect it will remain at 10 or increase, but we will have to wait and see. Dar Scott Dar Scott Consultinghttp://www.swcp.com/dsc/Programming Services ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Script Limits and solid IDE evolution!
On 7/8/03 2:30 pm, Robert Brenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, this was an acceptable way to earn your wings and test the MC environment. Chaining 10-lines was not breaking any licenses AFAIK. I believe the reasoning was that any serious developer would pay rather than struggle all the time, but people who were not serious wouldn't pay anyway. Some post in this thread seem to confirm that this worked. (But then some complained that they can't truly evaluate the product with 10-line limit.) Right. And with either a purchase of $995 or a free product, pros would pay $995 and everyone else would use the free product. But now, we have Revolution Express - list $149 and currently on intro-offer at $75. The Starter Kit would cannibalize sales of that. And it did not make a good demo, it is less effective than a 30 day trial. That isn't some kind of theoretical debate, we have done our homework - 10 lines of code frustrated a lot of people using the demo. Kevin Kevin Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: An informal poll....
How many, who have purchased licenses, use MC/Rev to build standalones, that will be distributed to others? I don't create much for my own use. 99% of everything I do, is for distribution, to produce income. The rest of you? The same, there. Me too. Sounds like there is still room for a genuine HyperCard successor that is free, open-source, easier to use, and without *any* artificial *limits*. I'm alluding to *FreeCard*, of course, which currently requires more work than there is help/labour to do it, but if we are determined enough, we *CAN* pull this off. Here are some of the ways we could go about creating the GUI portion of FreeCard : * Evolve it as a clone of HyperCard, as we're doing now, with MC (and with RR too if some adjustments are made). Kevin has granted FreeGUI an exemption from their clause prohibiting the development of a competing RAD with RR. * Now that the MC-GUI has been become open-source, an alternative would be to work directly on the MC-GUI to improve it -- evolve it into FreeCard's GUI. * Once we get the XML stuff worked out (current work), the FreeCard engine will be able to generate its own GUI, as ultimately it will have to. But are xCard folks willing to start with something very modest then work our way up to the feature sets of MC/RR and then beyond? * I have been considering lately using PHP4 to create a web-only version of FreeGUI. And now that I have learned PHP, I realize joyfully that PHP is a scriptingLanguage and its syntax is relatively close to HyperTalk. Plus it is **hugely** popular, there are tons of samples docs, even complete [CMS] systems which are open source and free, etc. And because it is open source, it's source code can be modified to make it more like MetaTalk (and more like HyperTalk too). Which of these four alternatives is the most attractive to those empowered among us who insist on taking charge of their own destiny? C'mon folks! Let's get off this merry-go-round once and for all! Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Does your MC crash too?
Well, I'm not sure if this is gonna help, but I have the feeling it's a memory problem. ... I only experienced these problems in edit mode. In standalones everything's works perfect... DITTO: I never once had a problem with standalones, only happens in edit mode. My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Does your MC crash too?
Thanks /H But... This may not work on an executable... Also, this is a work around, not a solution. Considering that browsing across images works fine (although it's slow if the image is around 3MBs - slow compared to ACDC for example), if you can change images simply by setting the filename of the image, shouldn't removing the image name be enough? It isn't apparently... I thought of replacing the image object already but the stability of the stack is still shaky... And considering I havent' yet started working on image operations (rotation, cropping, etc...) this is not a solution I can work with. This application will end up in a cd (read-only...) It's ok for the application since the image will always be empty at opening, but it doesn't work for day-to-day test and crash development. The problem remains the loss of time and work... Thanks for trying, Bonus game, Play again! Xavier On 13/08/2003 11:38:41 metacard-admin wrote: In response to Xavier's image display and crash problem, Xbury writes: To me part of the problem seems that the allocation of the image space in the stack is not solid - it is not compactable it seems for one, and once an image is decompressed, that's it, you're stuck with that size... Is this due to either a flaw in code or the emptying of the image? It's a fact that no one seems to know HOW to empty an image (or imagedata). If this is the case, instead of updating the imagedata try deleting the old image and creating a new one on the fly. Should avoid the problem altogether. /H Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
