[meteorite-list] AD: NCC Private Sale of Martian Meteorite Samples
Dear Meteorite Friends, This is my first AD since some years now, and it's my first free AD - thanks Art! I'm currently starting a private sale of meteorites from my personal collection (mainly lunar and Martian pairings and doublettes), some are small main masses such as NWA 2373, or the second largest sample of the respective meteorite (such as NWA 1110, or NWA 1775). Many haven't been for sale for years such as many of the Dar al Gani or Sayh al Uhaymir shergottites with a low TKW. Please have a look at the samples that are currently on sale (first come, first served): http://new.meteoris.de/mars/list-mars-sale.html Why am I selling these in the first place? First, because I need some fast cash to pay some major invoices, and second because I intended to cut down my planetary collection since some time now, and so some great samples are now looking for a good new home. These are all hand-picked specimens with best provenance (most have been purchased from the original source or finder), and they come with a full guarantee of authenticity. If you don't like a sample I'll take it back. During the next few weeks I'm planning another Martian sale, as well as a sale of lunars, and other interesting achondrites (HEDs, Angrites, Brachinites etc.). It would be my pleasure to serve you with the one or the other sample, and it would be great to hear from you. If you need further information, in general or regarding a certain sample, just drop me a line and I'll be in touch. Just today: Orders of $1K plus get 10% off, orders of $2K plus get 20% off. All the best, Norbert Classen IMCA #7606 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363
Hi Aziz, and All, Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene and clinopyroxene do also match closely. Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data. Kind regards, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all, albert wrote today to me. he said, ' I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. . thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping this issue to move on to the good way. do we have this data now all the best aziz habibi - Message transféré De : Norbert Classen riffr...@timewarp.de À : habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363 Dear Aziz All, You wrote: he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he indicate that he has done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , its on the phone. and he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish them. thanks aziz habibi __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Albert JAMBON UPMC Univ Paris 06 (UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris Laboratoire Magie 46-0 4eme étage, Case 110 4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35 FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11 Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodynamique et cycles http://www.dunod.com/auteur-dunod-9782100516124-76933-albert-jambon.html Parcours de Planétologie d'Ile de France http://www.aerov.jussieu.fr/themes/APACHE/PlanetoIDF/index.html Site du master SDUEE http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363
Hi Dave All, Dr. Jambon asked me explicitly not to publish his entire abstract - it will be published after it has been approved by the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society. That's the usual way to do this, and I perfectly understand that. However, he gave me the permission to quote the respective numbers for NWA 5363 - so here you go: Oxygen isotopes: d17O =2.152‰; d18O = 4.183‰; ∆17O = -0.023‰ Does that help? All the best, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Dave Myers [mailto:whitefalcons...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 01:27 An: Norbert Classen; habibi abdelaziz; meteorite list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363 Hi Norbert, Aziz, Dr Jambon, and list! For The most part, in the last 3-4 years, I have been on the side lines just reading the post! If 3 people Have access to this data ( NWA-5363 o- Isotope) and belong to this list, Why state you have it, and not post the results on hear??? I do not understand this at all. Why keep good people in a argument, I am sure 99.9% of all the people on this list are all good people at heart, with all the same interest as everyone else. That is the only reason we are hear. METEORITES. To share knowledge about what we love. So if you have the data, post it on Hear tonight, And Everyone can get along. dave myers - Original Message From: Norbert Classen riffr...@timewarp.de To: habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 6:34:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363 Hi Aziz, and All, Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene and clinopyroxene do also match closely. Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data. Kind regards, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all, albert wrote today to me. he said, ' I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. . thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping this issue to move on to the good way. do we have this data now all the best aziz habibi - Message transféré De : Norbert Classen riffr...@timewarp.de À : habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363 Dear Aziz All, You wrote: he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he indicate that he has done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , its on the phone. and he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363
Dear Aziz All, You wrote: he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he indicate that he has done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , its on the phone. and he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish them. thanks aziz habibi __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 2.110 gram
Hello Barry, I usually won't even respond to that kind of unqualified IMCA bashing emails, but since you seem to be new to meteorites and the meteorite community I'd like to say a few words, just for the records in public: You actually applied for IMCA membership less than a few weeks ago, but when I told you that your recommending members would have to write us a short recommendation letter you backed out and told me that you weren't aware that recommendation letters were required - even though this is clearly stated on our Join page and repeated in the confirmation email sent out by our system. I didn't hold this against you, and I still don't. I even helped you with the identification of the lunar meteorite wrong that kindled your interest in meteorites about six months ago. You thanked me for that, and wrote: I think of the IMCA as an organization representative of honesty and responsibility and will some day be happy to join if you will have me. And I told you that you would be welcome. So what made you change your mind that fast? Now you are calling our Vice-President words (which I won't repeat, and for which you already apologized, somewhat halfheartedly), and you are calling the IMCA a corrupt organization... Based on what? The confidential information of people who weren't accepted as IMCA members in the past, or former members who have been expelled from our Association for not respecting our simple Code of Ethics (to which each member agrees to adhere prior to joining)? People that might have an interest in instrumentalizing you as a newbie to pay back to the bad people at the big bad IMCA? Make sure where you get your information from. You seem to be easily impressed, and I recommend you not to take everything at face value what you are told. The IMCA is run by a Board of Directors consisting of 9 elected Board Members from 5 different countries, and most of us Board members are no meteorite dealers. And if the minority of Board Members who are dealers and could have conflicting interests were as corrupt as you might think, how does it come that they are elected and re-elected by our membership? How does it come that conflicting interests don't play any role when it comes to votes and decisions on our Board of Directors? I think I, as the President of this Association, should be aware of that, right? I can assure you that you are totally wrong, not just about Anne Black but also about our Association. The IMCA Board of Directors, including Anne Black, have been involved in helping clearing up the pairing situation of NWA 5400 and its aleged pairings ever since this subject has been brought to our attention. Many questions still need to be answered, but that's in the nature of the subject as it requires oxygen isotope testing and more - something that takes time; so please be patient in this regard, and don't jump to premature conclusions. Yes Barry, silence might be a plague sometimes, but it's sure better than to rant about people you barely know, and about subjects you are not familiar with. I still won't hold this against you as you are obviously a newbie, and easily impressed. Anyway, since you brought this up in public I thought a public response would be appropriate. And I think another apology to the entire IMCA would be in order - we are surely no corrupt organization, and I and many other IMCA find it insulting that you are making such outrageous and unqualified statements in public. All the best, Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I'll tell you right know...I wanted to become a member of IMCA and asked a couple of good friends who agreed. I would no longer belong to this corrupt organization than I would belong to the KKK. What a farce Ann Black has made of a chance for a legitimate organization for collectors and dealers to gather and exchange. Conflicting interest is a joke heresilence is a plague that I can no longer ignore. Go ahead and grease your pole with silence but it works both ways.you have to live with this bitch...I don't...I'm a buyer and I can buy from anyone. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Barry Hughes bhug...@sneezy.com wrote: Yes...I remember that. I felt like apologizing to him, myself. Thanks Carlwe'll get this straightened out tonight. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:59 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Richard, Anne, List, This has a lot of us smoking right now. I am pressing send anyway here. Sorry. The truly sad thing about this is that Anne herself is the one who claimed in an earlier email that Tony did in fact have some of NWA 5363 already. She went on to tell us all to be patient. This after she was made fully aware that Dr Jambon as a qualified scientist, had already confirmed the pairing with NWA 5400. This is his exact quote NWA 5363 is undoubtedly paired with NWA 5400 In the same email Dr. Jambon went on to say that; I have been insulted. My Moroccan partners have been insulted
Re: [meteorite-list] This is fun to read...
Dear Randy, and All, Has anyone else noticed that this site has been taken down in the meantime? There are also no more uncometeorites auctions running on eBay, at least not at this time... Interesting. All the best, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Betreff: [meteorite-list] This is fun to read... http://uncometeorites.shutterfly.com/ ...and, yes, I sent you there. Randy Korotev Saint Louis, MO koro...@wustl.edu __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New American Lunar on ebay
Richard All, He also has a nakhlite for sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCO-Martian-SNC-Nakhlite_W0QQitemZ120552014460 And a new chassignite too: http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCO-Martian-Dunite_W0QQitemZ120553654157 Go figure! Take care, Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Supposedly paired with NWA 5000, and only with an opening bid of $63, from a seller with no feedback. http://tinyurl.com/y78u2cr By the looks of the additional material in the background of the photo, this is but the first slice to be offered. Ugh -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] QUESTION RE METEORITES AND POP CULTURE
Hi Darryl, and All, A few more come to my mind: Evolution (a wacky comedy film with David Duchovny with a meteorite bringing new life to Earth) Smilla's Sense of Snow (the book and the movie) The Fifth Miracle (a pop-science book by Paul Davies with some focus on ALH 84001) I was also thinking about music, but I only can seem to come up with the Fireball album of Deep Purple... All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Darryl, Great idea. Here are a few that readily come to mind - you probably already have these on the list. Some of these are not really meteorite-related per-se, but fit loosely in the group perhaps. Armageddon (movie) Deep Impact (movie) Lucifer's Hammer (book) Meteor Man (movie) Shoemaker Levy-9 event (brought comets and NEO's to the mass media, tons of documentaries) Meteorite Men Meteorites! (1998 made for TV movie) Meteor (movie) 2012 (the nonsense and the movie) Stewie's head is compared to a meteorite by Brian in song (a Family Guy episode) There are meteorite shoes and cosmetics all over eBay - FWIW. Best regards, MikeG On 3/12/10, Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com wrote: Hi Everyone, I'm attempting to create a comprehensive list of pop cultural references in recent years in which meteorites appear in a supporting or lead role. I'm primarily looking at works of fiction but scientific references of the pop cultural ilk will be similarly welcome. Looking for films, TV, books, etc. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks so much, and wishing you a good weekend, Darryl __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites used as tools
I have a photo of King Tut's iron dagger on my website, a scan from a newspaper article: http://www.meteoris.de/img/basics/Dagger.jpg Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Is there a photo that exists of the Canyon Diablo arrowhead? Does anyone have any other photos of any weapons and tools made from meteorite iron? Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites used as tools
Hi Eric, and All, Yes, it's very nice! And I have to make a correction: the picture is a scan from a book, not from a newspaper. I learned that the inscription has been added by our own Bernd Pauli. Bernd: thanks for clearing this up! The book is: Tutanchamun, Der ewige Glanz des jungen Pharaos, Ausgabejahr 2000 Karl Müller Verlag, Text: T.G. Henry James, Photos: Araldo de Luca. JFYI. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- NICE! That dagger is awesome! Regards, Eric On 3/3/2010 10:00 AM, Norbert Classen wrote: I have a photo of King Tut's iron dagger on my website, a scan from a newspaper article: http://www.meteoris.de/img/basics/Dagger.jpg Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Is there a photo that exists of the Canyon Diablo arrowhead? Does anyone have any other photos of any weapons and tools made from meteorite iron? Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February24, 2010
Hi Adam, Greg, and All, I'm no expert when it comes to iron meteorites, but could these voids represent troilite nodules or other phases which have been weathered out of the specimen by the same forces that created the ziggurat structures? Just think of the exterior parts of Mundrabilla and its voids and vugs which are also weathered out troilite nodules and no primary features... Just my two cents, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- HI Adam and List, This is a fascinating specimen. Surely it represents a previously-unknown parent body. While the presence of vugs/vesicles suggests the specimen was not formed in a vacuum, maybe there was some gases present during the formation. For example, suppose a large comet slammed into a predominately-iron asteroid. Comets contain large volumes of material that can sublimate, and maybe during the collision, some of this gaseous material injected into the iron body. The heat and/or shock resulting from the collision provided inroads for the cometary material by expanding existing fissures or faults. Then the intermingled material rapidly cooled, forming the vesicles we see now. The massive shock and/or heating would also wipe out the native widmanstatten pattern present in the iron body, leaving behind an ataxite-like mass without the typical crystallization patterns..??? Then this curious mass fell to Earth and experienced weathering/alteration to provide the strange external appearance we see now. Or, to play devil's advocate, perhaps this is a very atypical type of industrial slag unlike any seen before. Is there any industry present in the area where this mass was found? Best regards, MikeG On 2/24/10, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron meteorite? I have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron before and thought vesicles would most certainly disqualify an object from being an iron meteorite. Has cosmic ray exposure testing been done? It would be interesting to see how long this object has been in space. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 8:17:14 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 24, 2010 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some meteorite words
Greg wrote: Don't forget Norbert is a self proclaimed Lunatic (a good thing!) :-) Greg I'm actually trying to do my best ;-) And I'm also trying to keep up with my Mars-Mania... What makes me wonder why noone came up with Meteor-Mania - a common and highly contagious disease among collectors that proved to be therapy-resistant so far. All the best, Norbert www.meteoris.de __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Christian Anger
These are very, very sad news. Christian will truely be missed, and my thoughts and prayers are with his friends and relatives. I knew Christian since many years, and he used to visit me at my home prior to the Ensisheim shows to talk about our favorite passion, and to show off or to trade rocks from space. He was one of the kindest persons you can imagine, always friendly and joking, with a big heart at the right place. His passing away leaves a void that can't be filled. There are a lot of anecdotes that come to my mind when I think of Christian, too many to tell. One is a story around the large main mass of HaH 173 which Christian traded from me years ago. The interior of that L6 was very fresh (W0-1), but the mass had been buried in the desert and it was totally covered with a tough caliche coating making it an ugly duckling. However, Christian could see the swan in it, and in weeks of meticulous work he manually removed all the caliche - I didn't recognize the mass when he sent me a picture of it! It really looked like a fresh fall as Christian had managed to bring out the original fusion crust which was hidden under the caliche coating. Christian always had a great passion for his meteorites, and handled them with utmost care. Whenever he purchased a slice he manually polished it so that he could also enjoy it under the microscope. He was an exemplary curator of his space rocks, second to none. And he was a great guy, a real buddy. I had the pleasure to serve with him on the IMCA Board of Directors, the pleasure to have him as a fellow Brother of the Ensisheim Meteorite Brotherhood of Guardians, and - last but not least - as a friend. Christian: your great sense of humor and your passion will sorely be missed. Godspeed! Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello everybody, I just received this email (below) from Hanno, with very sad news. For all of you who did not know Christian Anger, he was an expert meteorite collector and a very friendly guy. In his real life he was an Engineer, and lived near Vienna, Austria. He leaves behind an (ex)wife and two little girls. And I still remember when we were waltzing together in Ensisheim, in much happier times. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) Hello Anne, today I received an email from Harald Stehlik, that our good friend Christian Anger had on 14.dec 2009 a very heavy car accident and he died. I am very shocked and sad, because Christian was not only a collector but a friend. Everybody know how much fun we had when we were togheter. We had also other private contact and were real friends. At first he told me that he cannot come to the Munich show, because he had so many private problems in his mind. Then he called me thursday evening when I was in Munich that he decided to come. So he was with us friday evening at the Fliegerbräu and stayed in Munich till sunday afternoon. He helped me to bring some of my material back into the car sunday afternoon. This was the last time I saw him. True friendship never ends.. Hanno Strufe __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question Regarding Lunars
Dear Greg, and All, The reddish, brown and pinkish colors of these lunars (particullary from Oman) are from hematite staining, i.e., from terrestrial weathering. Pristine lunars look more like this: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA2200-1.388g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho910-1.912g.JPG It seems that especially the lunars with a very long terrestrial residence time, such as Dhofar 025 which fell more than 400,000 years ago, display the effects of heavy hematite staining: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho025-0.352g.JPG Hope this helps, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- List: I have a question regarding Lunar meteorites. In many of the pics on various websites I have noticed a reddish/brown color in the meteorites. I figured that most would be more grayish and white. Is the reddish color from terrestrial means? Does it oxidize after landing? Or is this reddish color not related to oxidation at all and is the actual color it would be on the moon? I would think that there would be no oxidation on the moon or in space, due to the lack of oxygen. Shisr161 is an example. http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Shisr161-2.884g.jpg I can't get over how 'terrestrial' lunars look. Who knows... maybe I've stepped on one without knowing it. Greg S. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
Dear Phil, and Exobio-Scepticists, I wouldn't give too much on whatever Crichton has to say - how about doing some real homework, and studying books written by scientists first? Read, e.g., Vital Dust by Nobel Prize winner Christian de Duve who answers most of the basic questions on how it happened here first. De Duve, who's everything else but a romantic dreamer and certainly not the kind of guy who's wasting his time with mental masturbation, comes to the conclusion that life must be kind of a cosmic imperative instead of a weird exception. But do me a favour, don't use the shortcut, i.e. don't Google it up, and avoid reading online summaries on Wikipedia and other sites - read the book from page 1 to 543, it's really worth the effort. After that you might want to re-read the studies on Murchison and other carbonaceous chondrites which do not only prove to contain a smorgasbord of various cosmogenic amino acids, but also nucleobases (the building blocks of RNA and DNA), water, and many other ingredients of life (as we know it), in addition to all the astronomic studies about planetary nebulae, the presence of water, PAH's, methane, and other carbon-based molecules in protoplanetary discs etc. pp. ... If you're still sceptic after all of that you might want to take a final step, look into the mirror and ask yourself if it's just your own bias that stops you from seing the obvious. I hope you don't take this as an offense as it sure isn't ment as one, but as someone who studied philosophical anthropology and the history of science it always takes me by surprise how many educated people don't understand the full consequences of the Copernican Shift. Don't get me wrong, of course they do know that Earth isn't the flat center of our solar system, galaxy, or universe. However, most did just exchange their geocentric view for a slightly modified anthropocentric view where man is still that special, unique, and most exquisite being: the Pride of Creation. And, of course, that also requires that life is unique, and restricted to that small planet Earth: the Cradle of Humanity. But, how scientific is that? It's pure human hubris, pitiful self-importance, IMHO. Don't get me wrong: I don't believe in aliens contacting us anytime soon - this is a enterily different affair and mainly a matter of time and space - but to deny the probability of life somewhere else in the universe is as stupid as the idea that planets around other stars are rare and exceptional (something that was often believed up to the late 20th century, also for obvious reasons), and as short sighted as Newton's assertion that meteorites can't come from space. Today we do know better. Don't we? My two CM2's, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Phil Whitmer Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2009 16:40 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted The Drake Equation is a prime example of mental masuturbation. It proves absolutely nothing. How can an equation prove anything when none of the variables are known with any certainity? As Rob points out, one zero nullifies the whole silly thing. How about Ne; the number of known Earth like planets supporting life=0. If you want dumb equations, the creationists have a bunch of them that proves there is exactly one planet that supports life. I can make up an equation that proves the existence of mermaids, bigfoot, Nessie, unicorns, dragons, what imaginary being do you want to believe in? I'll write a formula to prove it's existence. I'll be easy, because I already know that life begets life. The Drake Equation misses the key concept in the alien debate; mainly how does abiogenesis occur? How does non living matter become alive? Once we figure out the mechanics of this most basic problem, then we can extrapolate about whether this seemingly miraculous event could happen more than once. If you're going to believe in spontaneous generation on other planets, you had better understand how it happened here first. Someone has to explain to me how those left handed isomer amino acids from meteorites organized themselves into living, self replicating DNA. (See this thread is related to meteorites!) Crichton summed it up best at a lecture at Caltech : The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. [...] As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from billions and billions to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless... And puhleez, don't give me that stupid absence of evidence argument, it didn't hold water when Rumsfeld used it for imaginary WMDs, and it doesn't justify the belief in phantasmagorical alien creatures. Mental masturbation
Re: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and Spam
Hi Bernd, You asked: P:S.: Do any of our German list members have a German word for that kind of canned food ??? Frühstücksfleisch or Dosenfleisch - YUCK! Actually, spam seems to be an abbrevation of spiced pork and ham... Hope this helps, Norbert __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Martian, Lunar, Vestan Ensisheim
Dear List Members, I rarely sold anything during the last two years, but in anticipation of the upcoming Ensisheim show, and also in order to raise some additional funds for Ensisheim and Ste. Marie I thought I might have a small pre-Ensisheim sale. This sale includes four small but exceptional samples: a rare small Martian individual, a most KREEPy lunar sample, a weird piece of Vesta, and - last but not least - a genuine slice of the Thunderstone of Ensisheim with a fantastic surface to weight ratio. Here you go: Dar al Gani 1037, olivine-orthopyroxene-phyric shergottite (Martian) TKW: 4.01kg, Libya 1999 Specimen for sale: a 1.886g individual (~20x12x5mm) Price: 750 US$ (~400 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886r.jpg This is one of the smallest complete stones from the Dar al Gani strewnfield, offered at a great price way below market value. Compare the prices on the web, and consider the premium of a small complete stone. Dhofar 1442, KREEP-rich regolith breccia (lunar) TKW: ~125g, Oman 2005 Specimen for sale: a 0.680g partslice (~20x10x1.2mm) Price: 680 US$ (1000 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68r.jpg Additional info on Dhofar 1442 (at Randy Korotev's site): http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/dhofar1442.htm This lunar is even more Thorium-rich than the regolith portion of SaU 169, and contains 0.72 weight percent potassium (K) oxide, making it an exceptionally KREEPy sample that most probably originates from the lunar nearside, i.e. from the Procellarum region that was also the target of the Apollo missions. So you won't get much nearer to the stuff locked away with NASA, especially since SaU 169 is also unavailable to private collectors. Considering the low TKW, and zero availability (this stuff is longsince sold out with the finders) I believe this to be an ecxeptional offer. NWA 4890 (provisional), unbrecciated eucrite TKW: 76g, Morocco 2006 Specimen for sale: a 0.98g partslice (~20x9x2mm) Price: 60 US$ (~60 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98r.jpg I originally purchased a larger slice of this unusual unbrecciated eucrite from Chladni's Heirs who are longsince sold out of this material nicknamed Digoult because it was first considered to be another individual of the Agoult eucrite - until it was cut and revealed a typical Agoult-like sugary and fine-grained lithology, and a second, distinct, and more coarse-grained lithology. Unfortunatelly, this partslice broke off of my sample along a natural crack, and so it's now up for sale at about the same price I once paid for it. And I believe it's worth every penny. Ensisheim, LL6 breccia TKW: 127kg, fell Nov. 7, 1492 Specimen for sale: 0.358g partslice (~17x10x1mm) Price: 100 US$ (~300 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358r.jpg I guess I don't need to introduce this one. This marvellous this slice comes with a signed CoA from a well-known French meteorite dealer, and has a fabulous surface to weight ratio. 1500 US$ for all four specimens. I'm also accepting offers during the next 48 hours, but I expect everything to be sold out much faster. First come, first served. Immediate payment via PayPal required (but please don't send funds until you received a sale confirmation). Alternatively, I accept immediate bank wire transfer from German residents, or cash (and delivery) at the Ensisheim show. Registered shipping is free (airmail, worldwide). Offers are valid for 48 hours - what isn't sold will accompany me to Ensisheim. Let's rock, and hope to see you in Ensisheim, and/or Ste. Marie, soon. All the best, Norbert Classen IMCA #7606 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] IMCA The Encyclopedia of Meteorites
Dear List Members, Some weeks ago there have been a lot of questions on this list regarding the Encyclopedia of Meteorites and the IMCA as its new owner. Sorry it took so long to reply, but we had to get everything straight with the EoM, first, and now we are ready to answer all the questions. Please have a look at our current IMCA Insights, March 2009, which answers most of the questions we received: http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_wrapperItemid=159 If you are using a monitor with a 800x600 resolution please use this version: http://imca.cc/insights/2009/IMCA-Insights03.htm I hope this helps. If you have additional questions please contact us at questi...@imca.cc and we will get back to you, ASAP. All the best, Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Happy New Year - Ruben Garcia
Hi Paul, and All, A Happy, Healthy and Prosper New Year to you all. Did anyone have a look at Ruben's old URL - there's an article about meteorite hunting on this new site that sounds pretty (babel-)fishy... If you want to have a good laugh have a look at: http://www.mr-meteorite.com/treasure-hunting-for-meteorites/ There's a great definition of meteorite, for example: A healthy intent imagining in outdoor space which survives a stroke with a earths aspect is called a meteorite. Hmmm ;-? My favorite howler: Be unequivocally clever with singular earth magnets since they will repairs credit cards, dungeon phones, computers, PDAs as well as alternative electronic equipment. Good advise, huh? I'm just wondering where I could possibly get such a darn dungeon phone! Any dungeolar for sale ,-? All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Happy New Year and Best Wishes to Everyone! For those of you who've been looking for Ruben Garcia's website, he has moved his articles and video listings to The Meteorite Exchange. All of Rubens articles are up and I should have all Ruben's videos listed a few days after we post the January issue of Meteorite-Times. Ruben is listed under the Information menu. Direct URL is http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ To all Meteorite Dealers: This is our annual request for you to verify your information on our Meteorite Dealers Listing page http://www.meteorite.com/dealer_list.htm Please reply off list with any changes. Changes will be made a few days after we get Meteorite-Times up. To all of you who are soon to be Tucson bound please add your information to our Tucson Information page. Our Tucson Information page is found on Meteorite-Times. Information page here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/ Add your Tucson information here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/form/ Thank you! Paul and Jim __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Caveat Emptor: Beware of Bob Evans!
Hi Al, and All, Even if Bob Evan's tells you where he got his items from you can't bet that it's the truth. Several IMCA members got burned in their dealings with Bob Evans, and we had the doubtful pleasure to investigate quite a few of these cases on the IMCA Board of Directors. I still have a special email folder with hundreds of mails regarding this subject. Bob, you wrote: Misrepresent ? Never ! Hmmm, how does it come that the alleged source of your Tilden, for example, says that he never had this meteorite, just to name one incidence? I know, you said that you didn't recall that correctly, like in several other cases. Hard to believe, if you ask me. If I have a look at my meteorites I can usually tell you where I got this or that sample, especially when it comes to the rare or special ones. You also wrote: NWA 1110 - Adams efforts to comletely control certain areas of the market. Hmm, even if it would have been Adam's intent to control certain areas of the market this wouldn't give you the right to sell unclassified stuff as something that has a clearly defined TKW and classification. Stating possible pairings is one thing, selling something for something else is an entirely different affair. And it shows that you aren't taking things too seriously when it comes to proper labeling practices. I could go on for a while, but it's wasted time trying to convince you that you made even one single mistake. And that's always alarming, especially if the responses to legit questions are insulting and abusive. Caveat Emptor! Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitterling Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008 17:30 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Caveat Emptor: Beware of Bob Evans! Greetings, Since bob has sent this to the list, I will reply. One item you have misrepresented is Plymouth, Indiana. The buyer of that has contacted you many times trying to get their money back and has never had any success and he has tried hard. This buyer contacted me to thank me for my post and tell me about his fruitless efforts with you. There have been questions about a great number of your other items and the pedigree. Some of which you said you purchased as an exchange from a university but they say they never had contact with you. Your criminal behavior is a problem for the whole collecting and selling meteorite community. If you could offer up proof where your items of question came from then it might give you some of your reputation back. However in your email you mention that you don't have to let anyone know where you get your items from. To me, that tells a lot about you. Serious problems like this need to be brought out in the open and people warned. I agree with Dave Gheesling, Art, please remove the trash from the list. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Caveat Emptor: Beware of Bob Evans! First off, kudos to Al Mitterling for pointing out the riffy, illegal business practices of Bob Evans. I'm surprised no one else has called out this onion in the daisy patch. Bob Evans has made thousands of dollars selling misrepresented meteorites to unsuspecting customers, notably Plymouth and Zulu Queen. I know because I was duped into buying a sample of his ersatz Plymouth. At the time, I had just gotten a job as collections curator of a small Earth and Space museum. I was very excited to see the Plymouth meteorite offered in an ad on the Meteorite List, as the town is just down the road from us and my uncle and I had spent considerable time researching and searching for the supposed lost main mass. (Turned out to be a wild goose chase). Since Bob seemed to be a list member in good standing I figured he could be trusted. If I had known enough to search the archives, I would have seen that he is a con man. To make a long story short, Bob's Plymouth was as phony as a 3 dollar bill. He told me it was etched before I bought it, (it wasn't). He promised he would return my money as he stated in the auction, (he didn't). I've asked him numerous times for my money back and got nothing but a run around. This guy is a con artist and I must admit he runs a good scam that has been very profitable for him. He's giving the industry a bad name and should be flamed every time he comes out of hiding and has the audacity to come back and post on the list. I would like to warn all newbies: Do not deal with this guy! If you do, you will regret it in the long run. Phil Whitmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Grein 004/Tafassasset
Dear Zelimir, Yes, the Freiburg mass surely is Tafassasset - no doubt about that. And Dr. Otto won't do any further work on it because he emerited from Freiburg University in the meantime. But if you like to ask him for details about the Freiburg mass I'm sure he is willing to provide you with a wealth of information :-) Best, Norbert PS: You are absolutely correct about the TKW of Tafassasset - the original MetBull includes both, the Freiburg mass, and the additional masses that were studies in France. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Zelimir Gabelica [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. November 2008 17:51 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Norbert Classen; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Zelimir Gabelica Betreff: Grein 004/Tafassasset Hi Norbert, Bernd, Harald, List, Thank you very much for the info about Grein 004/Tenere 001/Tafa. I indeed read that somewhere sometimes but I have not my archives on hand here in France (BM Met. Catalog (Grady) indeed currently gives most of the meteorite synonyms). Bernd said: Grein 004 as well as Tenere 001 are just synonyms for the Tafassasset Freiburg mass, a single stone weighing 3610 grams. It's no pairing. Bernd, Norbert, does that mean that the tkw for Tafassasset is then 110 kg (Franch find) + 3.61 kg (Grein 004) = 113.61 kg ? (thus [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] kg as in A to Z ?). Met. Bull. indeed reports the tkw as 114 kg (approx), which well fits the figure. The official type so far is CR-an (Met. Bull.), or PAUNGR (A to Z). Do you agree ? I know that both meteorites were studied separately and that the real type could not be defined. Note that Weir (his web site) reports, for T-1 (= Tenere 001), a total weight of exactly 3.636 kg, also that is brachinite-related and that Tafa itself (separately listed by Weir but said being paired with T-1) is a PAUNGR, possibly CR-related. More recent studies seem to still question that CR-relation... I understand the real type is yet to be defined and that the tkw is close to [EMAIL PROTECTED] kg, more specifically [EMAIL PROTECTED] kg Norbert, do you think Prof Otto knows more on that or whether they continue to study this meteorite in Freiburg ? And Bernd, what you mean by it's no pairing ? Everybody seems to agree so far that the Freiburg mass is also Tafa. (?) All my best, Zelimir A 12:19 26/11/2008 +0100, vous avez écrit : Hi Zelimir, I don't know for NWA 3144, but Grein 004 is a synonym for Tafassasset - I'm pretty sure of that. Grein 004 was a working name used for the smaller mass which was later named as the Tafassasset Freiburg mass, classified and studied by my friend Dr. Otto in Freiburg. You might want to contact Juergen Otto in this matter, just to make sure - he can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps... All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi List, Heredown is a message of Roger Warin (Belgium) that he apparently can not send through his server. I have my own question: does anybody know the official status of meteorite Grein 004 ? (not in Met. Bull.) Thanks! Zelimir -- Hello List, I have put some pics of NWA 3144 (CV3) thin sections on our local site. See here: http://www.agab.be/meteorites/Thin/thin.html Met. Bull. reports that this meteorite (found or purchased by the Hupés) still has a provisional status. I'd be glad to learn more about this meteorite. Could someone provide some data (if any) or send further comments on its status ? Thanks and all the best, Roger. Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there?
Hi Alex, and All, A very good question, and I believe there's an answer to that. But let's start by asking some more questions: If you sell a T-shirt or a pair of Jeans on eBay from time to time, does this make you a commercial dealer, or even part of the textil business/industry? If you sell a used book once in a while, does this make you a book seller? Surely not. If you have a registered business for selling meteorites (or minerals) you might consider yourself a commercial seller (dealer), if you don't you are probably no dealer, but just a private person/collector who sells a rock/meteorite sample once in a while. So, do you have a commercial eBay account, or a private account? It's that simple. I don't know for other countries, but in Germany there's a clear distinction (set by the tax authorities): if you are making a profit with it you have a business and you are considered to be a Händler (commercial seller). If you are spending more on a hobby than you earn with your related sales you are considered a Liebhaber (hobbyist), and they won't even tax your related income because you are making zero profit with your once in a while sales. So I guess some people need to re-consider the real meaning of the word dealer in a social and economical context. If we are talking of commercial sellers, and people who make a real profit by selling meteorites there are probaly not as many meteorite dealers as you might think. Just my two cents, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Can you tell the MeteoriteMan is a dealer or the collector is the MeteoriteMan? Is there a borderline? Exactly this is what I called into question! :-) Any suggestions for a definition of dealer? Alex Berlin/Germany ...who thinks there are more than those mentioned dealers on that list, but then again, where is the borderline, in terms of, may be, common sense and understanding? So any thoughts and ideas are welcome here __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New or maybe old QUESTION??????
Hi Pete, and All, Check out the following website on Fossil Meteorites (best viewed with Internet Explorer - it doesn't display correctly with Firefox for some reason): http://epsc.wustl.edu/~visscher/research/fossil_files/frame.htm Best, Norbert --- Pete Shugar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List, Maybe this has been asked and answered (sounds like a lawer thing) and maybe not. Since I am relatively new to collecting and certainly not an Expert in any area of meteorite study (with the exception of magnetisum (from the sky magnetic VS made a magnet by processes here on earth). Here's my question: A geologist digs in an area that he thinks there will be the likelyhood of finding a fossil. Maybe he gets lucky and maybe finds bunches of them. Has anyone ever found a meteorite buried deep in a layer that is thousands or even millions of years old? Years ago--long before I became an obsessed, crazed, meteorite addict, while teaching a series on earthquakes, I had found a video of a scientist standing with one foot on the Pacific plate and the other foot on the North Americian plate, ie astraddle of the San Andreas fault line. In back of him was a small vertical clift of maybe 10 feet and you could plainly see the shift (approx 15 inches) in the layers of sediment. Now I've got to thinking (some say this is my problem--Thinking) that these meteorites have a tremendous terestial age. If the earth is bombarded by these meteorites throughout the aeons, then there should be a record, ie evidence in the form of buried craters (see the Odessa,Tx crater) -- Approx 100 to 110 feet deep that has been filled in till it is only 25 to 30 feet deep now due to wind blown sand (mostly). I've got a pamplet of Occasional Papers of the Strecker Museum from Baylor University showing a neat cross section of the Odessa Crater. How much investigation into the cross section structure of the sediment layers, looking for evidence of craters has been done? Has there ever been an accidential discovery of a buried crater in a clift side. Lots of these erroded mesa exist out west. Maybe evidence is visable there. Surely Valeria is not the only animal killer out there. Maybe another animal drilled by a passing meteorite with the coresponding meteorite near the body. Maybe there's no body but the meteorite is still there buried in the deeper layers of sediment. Maybe tektites are the only surviving evidence. In a nutshell, has there ever been a meteorite found at a depth of sediment that is plainly very old? Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Extra-solar material?
Hi Matthias, and All, You asked: isn't presolar extrasolar too, in a certain sense? Not necessarily, at least not how I understand it. I've read some abstracts and papers that say, e.g., that not all presolar nano diamonds in Allende, and other carbonaceous chondrites are considered to be of interstellar or extra-solar origin. So some presolar grains are interstellar, and some or not. However, interstellar grains found in meteorites should be considered presolar as they would have to be incorporated into meteorites in the early days of our own solar nebula. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, I found a few abstracts dealing with interstellar grains, i.e., real stardust in primitive meteorites, carbonaceous chondrites, and IDPs (Interplanetary Dust Particles). Here are three examples that show that some meteorites contain real stardust, i.e., actual grains of novea, supernovae, RGB (red giant branch), AGB (asymptotic giant branch), or Wolf-Rayet stars. So, as I said before, we surely have plenty of extra-solar/interstellar stuff in our collections, but just as microscopically small inclusions: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/510612 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1993Metic..28..490A http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1997ApJ...483..475N Fascinating, isn't it? You will certainly view your Tieschitz, or your Acfer 094 with different eyes now ;-) All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Norbert, list , - isn't presolar extrasolar too, in a certain sense? See f.e.: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec02/TagishLake.html Best, Matthias - Original Message - Hi Mark, The nano diamonds in Allende CAI's are considered to be samples of extra-solar origin; at least they show isotopic values that don't match with any of the other values measured for materials of our solar system (including meteorites). I believe there were studies of other (Antarctic) carbonaceous chondrites which also were shown to be from other systems, but right now I don't remember the exact publication. Should have been in MAPS, but I would have to look this up, first. Bernd: do you have an idea where I might have read about it? But as far as I know no meteorite as such has been considered as extra-solar, so far - these are always inclusions, and most of them are microscopically small. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I'm reading Paul Davies' The Fifth Miracle. In chapter 6 it refers to the 1996 discovery by Taylor, Baggaley and Steel of inter-stellar dust particles entering the earth's atmosphere in the form of fast ( 70-km/s) meteors: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v380/n6572/abs/380323a0.html It got me wondering as to whether there are any candidates for meteorites which may be of extra-solar origin. Are there any? How would they be identified - a suspiciously long CRE age would perhaps be one indicator? Mark -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Extra-solar material?
Hi Mark, The nano diamonds in Allende CAI's are considered to be samples of extra-solar origin; at least they show isotopic values that don't match with any of the other values measured for materials of our solar system (including meteorites). I believe there were studies of other (Antarctic) carbonaceous chondrites which also were shown to be from other systems, but right now I don't remember the exact publication. Should have been in MAPS, but I would have to look this up, first. Bernd: do you have an idea where I might have read about it? But as far as I know no meteorite as such has been considered as extra-solar, so far - these are always inclusions, and most of them are microscopically small. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I'm reading Paul Davies' The Fifth Miracle. In chapter 6 it refers to the 1996 discovery by Taylor, Baggaley and Steel of inter-stellar dust particles entering the earth's atmosphere in the form of fast ( 70-km/s) meteors: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v380/n6572/abs/380323a0.html It got me wondering as to whether there are any candidates for meteorites which may be of extra-solar origin. Are there any? How would they be identified - a suspiciously long CRE age would perhaps be one indicator? Mark -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Curious - what is the biggest (TKW) MartianMeteorite?
Dear Michael, and All, That's Zagami with a whopping TKW of about 18kg. And it's widely available on the collector's market, thanks to Bob Haag. The next biggest is the Yamato nakhlite Yamato 000593 and pairings with a TKW of about 15kg. Not available on the private collector's market, though. And the third biggest is the Sayh al Uhaymir shergottite (SaU 005/008 and pairings) with a combined TKW of more than 11kg - another one that's available on the collector's market. For more info, please check my up-to-date list of Martian meteorites at: http://www.meteoris.de/mars/list.html All the best, Norbert Classen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Folks! Someone asked me this question yesterday and it stopped me dead in my tracks - I had no answer for it. What is the biggest Martian-origin meteorite ever found, in terms of TKW? And, if this specimen is Antarctic or otherwise out of the collector's market, what is the biggest Mars specimen that is available to collectors? Regards, MikeG . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Website - http://www.glassthrower.com/meteorites MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoritical Society Membership
Hi Bernd, Walter, and All, The same here Bernd - but's that's probably just because they want to raise our appetite for the first 4 issues of 2008 ,-) Joking aside: being in the publishing business since many years I know how hard it is to complete such volumoneous issues in a timely manner, and I'm sure all the people at the MetSoc and at MPS are doing their very best to provide us with their publications. Personally, I'm not concerned as all the best things often take a while... So, just be patient; I'm sure that the December issue 2007 will be on its way, soon. And some of you thought Meteorite Magazine, Meteorite-Times or IMCA Insights were slow ,-? Patiently Yours, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Walter writes: when I sent my check a few years back, it was nearly a year and only after several emails did I my membership actually become official. Hello All, .. and while we are at it, my latest issue of MAPS is November 2007 !!! :-( :-( :-( Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoritical Society Membership
Hi Mike M., Hi Mike T., and All, Oups, now I hope that you didn't get my email wrong - I actually enjoy MPS (Meteorites and Planetary Science) more than any other publication, and I'm sure Bernd and Walter are feeling the same. Each and every issue is like a high-class book on meteorites, and related subjects. Sure, these are scientific articles, and I don't get everything what is written in there. But it's the very best publication out there, and it's just a bit sad that MPS is some issues behind, right now (and that's not allways the case!). Now imagine, 12 great books on meteorites and planetary science each year, plus some specials - that's not that bad for their modest annual dues, if you ask me! Mike T.: you will have to wait one full year until the most recent MPS articles are freely accessible online. If you think that this is a reasonable timeframe you're surely not as impatient as I am ,-)) Mike M.: Besides the subscription of MPS which is included in the annual dues for Meteoritical Society membership there are quite a few other reasons why you might want to join. The MetSoc is responsible for naming meteorites, and for publishing the Meteoritical Bulletin, for example, something we really all should be supporting if it's within our budgets. Actually, what would our hobby be without the very existence of the Meteoritical Society? It's the science which makes meteorites interesting - without that science they would be just, ehm, ordinary rocks that have fallen from the sky, and we hardly couldn't tell a lunar from a HED, or a chondrite from a desert varnished wrong... Some good reasons to consider joining and supporting the Meteoritical Society, right? All the best, Norbert (Member of the Meteoritical Society since 2006) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi everyone, I guess I have completely missed this organization. What are the benefits of joining? I am guessing they don't have a representative here on the list? On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 8:54 AM, tett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I was just saying to myself the other day that I should investigate joining. Now I am not so sure ;( Why join if you can't get quick access to their online journals and get their publications in a reasonable time frame. To add someone to a mailing list and grant access to the online journals should not be a monumental task. I will wait and see what others have to say about joining the Meteoritical Society Mike Tettenborn - Original Message - From: Norbert Classen Hi Bernd, Walter, and All, The same here Bernd - but's that's probably just because they want to raise our appetite for the first 4 issues of 2008 ,-) Joking aside: being in the publishing business since many years I know how hard it is to complete such volumoneous issues in a timely manner, and I'm sure all the people at the MetSoc and at MPS are doing their very best to provide us with their publications. Personally, I'm not concerned as all the best things often take a while... So, just be patient; I'm sure that the December issue 2007 will be on its way, soon. And some of you thought Meteorite Magazine, Meteorite-Times or IMCA Insights were slow ,-? Patiently Yours, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Walter writes: when I sent my check a few years back, it was nearly a year and only after several emails did I my membership actually become official. Hello All, .. and while we are at it, my latest issue of MAPS is November 2007 !!! :-( :-( :-( Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zulu Queen, MCcartney Taylor etc
Dear Bob, As you are addressing the IMCA I think I owe you a brief response. You wrote: As far as jackass McCartney Taylor , I gave the idiot planetary and achondrite for his chondrite and the moron sued me. Oh, he lied about not receiving my meteorites in court. How do you like that IMCA ? Hmm, do you have any proof that you gave the said trade material to McCartney Taylor, and that he did actually receive the said specimens? If so, why didn't you show up in Court to confront him with the evidence? And, why didn't you show up in Court, in the first place? Inquiring minds want to know... Regards, Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4925 Close-Up
Hi Martin, Bernd, and All, Bernd: what a great closeup of this Martian, showing the sheer beauty of its matrix, and the neat zoned olivine phenocrysts. Thanks for sharing! Martin: I'm very happy with my upgraded slice, not yet listed on my website (update to follow, soon). Thanks for such a great opportunity. All: If you don't have a piece of this shergottite - I think there are a few hours left to grab one at Martin's and Stefan's favourable and hard-to-beat introductory price. Amazed, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I forgot in the last email to present a fine photo, Bernd Pauli made of his slice, and which he allowed us to show - many thanks, Bernd! It excellently summarizes the characteristics of NWA 4925! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/NWA%204925x16-03.jpg (16x magnification) Best! Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ?
Dear Mark, dear Dave, and All, Actually, we (the IMCA Board of Directors) have been watching these auctions, and discussing all sorts of implications during the last few weeks. However, we can't do much if the seller is no IMCA member. If it was an IMCA member we would have taken immediate action - be assured of that. So, what do we learn: buy from IMCA members or from established dealers who are willing to answer all your questions regarding the provenance of their samples. If the seller refuses to answer your legit questions, or doesn't listen to your concerns, just don't buy. And, as Mark suggested, please keep as many records of your purchases as possible, and don't be afraid of asking questions. We might come up with something better, and kind of a collector's guide in the future (thanks for bringing that up in the first place), but - as I wrote above - we're still discussing all of the implications and facetts of this complicated issue. If you have suggestions, and ideas, we're more than willing to listen to you, and we are all watching this discussion with great interest. All the best, Norbert Classen President IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- One thing which I think the IMCA could do to give a lead here is some kind of new collectors' guide. I joined about a year ago, not long after I started collecting, as I correctly worked out that I'd want to trade on some of my specimens at some point, and wanted to do as much as possible to 'get it right'. I think more by luck than judgement, my records meet the 'minimum level' Mark G talks about - I log source and month of purchase, I keep all CoAs, I also keep a photo of each specimen - taken from the eBay sale, dealer's web site, wherever I've obtained it from. Despite this I know there are a couple of mistakes for some of my earliest entries. It may seem obvious to those who've been in the game for a while, but I had to figure this out for myself - I didn't find any advice on record-keeping. If I hadn't taken these steps from day one then my collection would be substantially less valuable, but more to the point the whole chain of provenance would have been broken while the material was under my stewardship. I think we all have a part to play when it comes to authenticity; some kind of summary from IMCA to new members could go a little way to addressing these points. As ever, just my 2p worth... Dave Gheesling wrote: IMCA BOD, are you ready to roll? Much more important than the question of an orientation rating system, this is a great opportunity for you to establish some kind of framework around which to blow the whistle with credibility when something stinks like left out fish... Dave -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ?
Hi Martin, and All, Yes, we are aware of that - and that's our major concern. We've also been doing some independent research on the specimens/meteorites in question, and if you would like to add to our database, please contact us on or off list. Kind Regards, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Norbert and all, I fully understand and appreciate the IMCA dilemma. However, the scope of the specimens in question has now moved into both into the collections of IMCA members and IMCA dealers. Therefore, I believe this is now a serious IMCA issue since we have a digital paper trail. Cheers, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Bob Evans Lawsuit
Hi Dave, and All, You wrote: Again, were IMCA to establish enough power over time by virtue of the value of their authority, they would be able to deny membership to sellers who could not or would not provide proper evidence of provenance for certain types of specimens. Maybe a pipe dream, maybe not. We actually do that on a regular basis, already. We are getting about four membership applications or more per week, and only about one is approved by a majority vote by the IMCA Board of Directors. Some applications don't even make it to voting as many applicants fail to list recommending members, or just fill in names of members who never heard about them. So yes, we check the reputation of each and every applicant, we check their eBay auctions and website sales (if any), and we often discuss their behaviour on the list (if they are posting here), and other things prior to voting. Of course, that doesn't mean that we can check everything, and sometimes we receive complaints about our members that are always taken very seriously by the IMCA Board of Directors. There have been a few cases in which we had to expell members for various reasons, and I think most of you are aware of that. So it's not just a dream - the IMCA is very real and functioning; I just wish that more people would be aware of that. In any case, be assured that some people would have no chance to get into our Association - we're certainly not blind, and we are very well aware of what's going on. All of you good guys and gals are most welcome, of course. So, if you are a honest dealer, and if you are no IMCA member, thus far, why not? All the best, Norbert Classen President, IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Walter All, Agreed, though nice might easily be taken to include with integrity. As it stands today, McCartney is correct to say good luck proving that [so-and-so] had prior knowledge they were selling NWA junk as something of significant provenance. Again, were IMCA to establish enough power over time by virtue of the value of their authority, they would be able to deny membership to sellers who could not or would not provide proper evidence of provenance for certain types of specimens. Maybe a pipe dream, maybe not. But playing nice, it seems to me, does not include sitting on the sidelines only to watch something which may be detrimental to this field unfold (and for which apparently zero counter-evidence has been provided after repeated requests) without question by SOMEone or SOME body of authority. Of course this is just one guy's opinion... Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walter Branch Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:13 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Bob Evans Lawsuit This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice. Well said, McCartney. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: McCartney Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Bob Evans Lawsuit Yes, there was a lawsuit against Bob Evans brought by me. It was in regards to a trade that was partially done, where I sent material and only received a partial trade, then Evans went quiet. No contact for many months. Eventually, I posted about it and received many replies that he has done this before. His modus operandi is usually to go quiet and not communicate. Which is what he's doing now. He did not show in court, I received a default judgment by the judge. Evans did not appeal and a judgment was issued. I spent the money to have the judgment filed in Illinois and a lien filed against his house. At this time he can not purchase or sell, or inherit real property until the judgment is paid. It is collecting 8% interest at this time. If I recall my contract law correctly, selling NWA junk as Zulu Queen would be 'Misrepresentation' as well as Unjust Enrichment. Selling Zulu Queen that he didn't know was NWA junk is simply 'Mutual Misunderstanding'. Good luck in proving he had prior knowledge it was NWA junk. This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice. -mt Original Message From: AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:36 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ? Greetings List Members, On June 24th 2004 there were some claims made against the person in question. Apparently there was a lawsuit against this seller. I have stayed clear of him ever since, though I never dealt with him. I suggest people look up the archives and do their own reading and decide for themselves. It may be the issue was resolved but I guess my feeling is how it got to that point in the first place. Best! --AL Mitterling __ http
Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ?
Dear Moni, and All, And last if someone does have been mislead and the person is not a member of the met-list or the IMCA, I still hope the info would be listed on the sites, so we will all be aware of the dealings. The IMCA will certainly do so as soon a we have solid proof. That's not always that easy in cases of alleged misrepresentation of specimens, and we are not in the position to accuse anyone of fraud or misrepresentation unless we have such proof. Unfortunatelly, sometimes we only have strong suspicions, or pieces of circumstantial evidence... In the case in question we are still in the process of investigating the facts - we contacted museums and collectors that could have served as sources of said specimens, for example. And we learned that even Museum and University records are often not reliable or complete. Take Bialystok, for instance: we found that the Museum of Berlin sold/traded out some 30g of Bialystok, but when, and to whom? The current curator had no answer to this, and so there could be quite a bit real Bialystok around... I just mentioned Bialystok because Martin already mentioned it in a previous email. There are other examples, and cases that we checked into, but I won't tell our findings in public as long as the seller in question is reading all of this, and could misuse that information. You see our dilemma? So, if you want to contribute to our investigation - we are always open for your input. Last but not least, be assured that we will keep you up to date, and that we will tell you the end of the story, if we ever come to an end. All the best, Norbert Classen President, IMCA Inc. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello All, Norbert wrote:[Yes, we are aware of that - and that's our major concern. We've also been doing some independent research on the specimens/meteorites in question, and if you would like to add to our database, please contact us on or off list.] Just be sure if it is still related to all the posts to keep it public and not start off list debates. Some of us like to hear the end of the story. Thank you! Dave, even if a seller is outside of IMCA does not imply he/she is a shady seller. Just write to the list and ask about this person. Some very successful dealers are not members of the IMCA. It would be wonderful if the IMCA will take a stand of getting misrepresentations cleared up though. And I do believe this is already happening like Norbert mentioned. But then again would we have heard of it if it wasn't for Mike Bandli asking questions? It is good information if this problem is made aware to all of us and not kept it secret between some members. And last if someone does have been mislead and the person is not a member of the met-list or the IMCA, I still hope the info would be listed on the sites, so we will all be aware of the dealings. With best regards, Moni _ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh _getintouch_042008 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What doesn't this list use an onlineforum format?
Hi Del Greg, If you visit the meteoritecentral site (the home of this list), and check your own subscription settings you will notice that there is an option to deactivate email delivery for times such as vacation - it's just one click, and you won't have to wade through hundreds of emails after your return. And then there is the digest mode, and much more. Yeap, mailing lists did evolve during the last decade, and they are surely not out of time ,-) To me, being part of this list is like walking into my favorite pub after work. I often meet old friends, make new friends, and I'm free to participate in discussions, and I'm free to relax or to listen to all the meteorite gossip going on. Sometimes there's even a good deal to be had, or firsthand information on new finds and falls that would be hard to find without having to search the net for hours and hours. And if I don't like a post or a thread there's always the good old delete key. Forums can be neat, for sure - but they are usually more like that modern type of bar with separate rooms where some folks get together at this, and others on that table. Most of the meteorite forums I've visited thus far are lacking the chaotic but familiar charm of this list. Thanks to Art for all his efforts to keep this good old list up and running! Cheers, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Del, I agree with you. If I'm away from my computer for just a few days, I have a couple of hundred e-mails to go through. What a pain. Plus, I have to look very carefully at the e-mails because I delete the vast majority of the ones from the meteorite list. If I don't check the e-mails carefully, I may delete an actual e-mail from a friend. It's happened before. I've moderated a Yahoo Group (forum) for about 6 years and it is much more user friendly than the Meteorite List. I love all of the knowledge that is given out by the members of this list. I just wish it didn't come to me in my e-mail. With respect, Greg Lindh Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:35:18 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What doesn't this list use an online forum format? I agree with this too! A lot of very good info here and boy it really sucks if you go on vacation or something because you'll have 100+ emails to clean out. The least that could be done for a forum is maybe setting up something through Yahoo. It isn't that difficult to do and it would probably take an hour or two to setup. Del --- JKGwilliam wrote: David and List, I don't know the answer to your questions, but they sure make sense. About a year and a half ago, I finally shut down the Meteorite Impact Forum due to a lack of participation. Even with nearly 200 registered members, there was very little traffic for the final three months. Online forums offer a lot of updated features that the old mail servers don't. The one feature that I really like, and is reason enough to use a forum, is that replies stay in chronological order. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's very frustrating for me to try and read all the replies to a thread in order. I end up reading all the replies and then try guessing what order they should be in. If you miss even one reply, some threads don't make sense. With a forum, this doesn't happen. My only guess is that the Meteorite List has been around for a long time ( I've been here for 10 years) that no one wants to mess with convention. Or, could it be an old dog/new trick issue? Best, John At 12:56 PM 2/21/2008, David Kitt Deyarmin wrote: I'm not trying to stir up trouble or incite arguments I'm just curious. Email lists are by today's standard an antiquated venue for discussing any hobby. They have many limitations and can be taxing on your email inbox, which is why I receive the Dailey Digest. I delete them and do all of my reading from the archives. Online forums are easier to use and the posted info is easier to track. Plus it's easy to ignore topics that you're not interested in without having to pick through a bunch of emails. However, I would like to understand why so many of the members here prefer not to use forums. I want to make it clear that I'm not trying stir up trouble, I'm just trying to understand the aversion most of this list has to using a forum. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
Re: [meteorite-list] : Happy Birthday PADVARNINKAI
Hi Frank, Bernd, and List, I don't have the 4th edition of The Catalogue, just the 5th edition... However, maybe you're referring to the fact that Padvarnikai was once listed as a shergottite, together with the original Shergotty? It's a wonderful eucrite, heavily shocked - the abundant maskelynite giving Padvarnikai's matrix a dark grey to blackish appearance. One of my all time favorites! With its vesiculated melt pockets it really looks more like a Martian than like a HEDO. All the best, Norbert (happy owner of a 2g+ crusted sample of the Androniski mass) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello Frank and List, The 4th edition has the place of fall at Androniski but the online MNH catalogue...has the place as Anyksciuu. Maybe this is what you were referring to? No, this isn't what I was referring to ;-) Anyone else? You can also Google it! Cheers, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The EL3/Aubrite/whatever - Why FOSSIL?
Hi All, Here's an interesting link to a scientific draft about fossil meteorites: http://epsc.wustl.edu/~visscher/research/fossil_files/frame.htm (It works best for IE, and doesn't display correctly in Firefox, for some obscure reasons.) The author tries to come up with a definition for fossil meteorite, following the suggestions of Schmitz B. and Tassarini M. (2001) Fossil Meteorites in Accretion of Extraterrestrial Matter Throughout Earth's History. Kluwer Academic, New York, 319-331. What is a fossil meteorite? - Meteorite with ancient terrestrial age - Buried in sediment after fall event - Incorporated into geologic record At least the second point seems to be true for the meteorite in question as I have seen fragments imbedded into sediment... It will be interesting to see what terrestrial age will be determined for this material, in the end. All the best, Norbert Classen __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
Thaddeus Besedin wrote: Germany has laws guaranteeing landowners their gifts from the sky; As Martin said, be sure that you can back up your claims - there is no such law in Germany. It seems that you don't have the best sources of information... or are you making such things up to fit your theories? Regards, Norbert Classen __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4808 Diogenite Breccia and NWA 4473
Hi Martin, and All, Actually, NWA 4808 can be found in the Meteoritical Bulletin Database, whereas just as a provisional entry. Have a look: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45732 In any case, that's a fantastic diogenite! Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Bernd, I can confirm, that NWA 4808 and 4473 are paired (were classified at the same place). We didn't know, how to act correctly, as the owner of 4473, insisted in spring, that he wished, that we never should mention paired material in his possession or his name in our Ads. Like he seems to do too, when he has material for sale paired with ours, if I look here and there into ebay. NWA 4808 isn't listed in the Bulletin yet, therefore that little dilemma. Anyway it is fascinating material. Additionally to the observations you made, this meteorite has some more unusual aspects. So no eucritic components were found in those stones, but fragments of three different diogenitic precursors. Therefore it must have a somewhat unusual impact history. Our special was sold out the same day, we found a few more slices in our stock, now only 3 or 4 small ones are left. As small as NWA 4808 was, it was quite heterogeneous, macroscopically the slices were quite different from each other. If someone is looking for larger surfaces, I saw Mike Cottingham having NWA 4473 on ebay some weeks ago, perhaps he has some left. Am I the only one, who can't await, that Dawn will arrive at Vesta? Best! Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name
Dr. Daniels, dear List Members, So you want full disclosure? Like McCartney Taylor, I would also like to know the institution you did your PhD at... And, could you please enlighten us why you are operating under two different names, one claiming a (questionable?) academic degree? I don't know for the laws in your country, but at least in Europe it's a criminal offense to use fake academic degrees or to attach an academic degree to a fictional name. JFYI. On another issue: in several posts you claimed that you'd respect the (indigenous) people in South America, local laws, etc. pp. But then you wrote: Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) While the first part of your statement is true - the fall area of this new meteorite is actually not too far away from the famous ruins of Tihuanaku on the Bolivian side of the border - the people in Bolivia would certainly not be amused by your joke... (I seriously doubt that it's a Peruvian saying as it doesn't make much sense in Quechua or Aymara, and not even in the usual South American Castillano.) I wonder what my old friend and teacher Dr. Jorge Miranda-Luizaga from the Ministerio de Justicia, Bolivia, would make of this, and your attitude of being a big fish in the Lake Titicaca (area), or in South America at large? If you like, I can ask him. You seem to believe that you can insult everyone - the scientific community by using a (questionable?) academic degree, and attaching it to the name of a Whiskey brand (I got this from one of your recent emails to this list); other meteorite hunters who did nothing else than you (buying pieces of this meteorites from the locals), and then calling them criminals; the people of Bolivia; and last but not least the members of this list by playing silly games with us. At least I'm disgusted, and sick of it. Sincerelly, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de PS: If you respond to this email please make sure to sign with your REAL name, or am I expecting too much??? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Hypersthene in LL3's?
Hi Jeff, and All, At least the OCs of the L-group are rich in hypersthene, and they even have been called hypersthene chondrites prior to our modern classification system. Have a look at: http://www.meteoris.de/class/L-Group.html It wouldn't take me by surprise if some LL members would also show lithologies that are dominated by hypersthene, or compositionally similar pyroxenes. Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi all, While I know Hypersthene crystals are found in Achondrites (Johnstown probably the most notable), I'm curious how prevalent it is in Ordinary chondrites. I've seen several good examples of bright pale-green crystals in LL3 chondrites with some measuring up to 1mm-1.5mm in size. I'm wondering if this might also be Hypersthene? Cheers, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 30, 2007
Hi Carsten, and All, I was thinking the very same thing. The RFSPOD photo reminded me more of a CV3 than of a CR chondrite. There are some neat CAIs visible to the upper left of the specimen, and the overall texture and color reminds me a bit of the original Vigarano. More info on and photos of CV and CR chondrites can be found on my site at: http://www.meteoris.de/class/CV-Group.html http://www.meteoris.de/class/CR-Group.html Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello, reminds me also a little bit at a new carbonaceous which i have, NWA 4759. Very beautiful and unshocked material. See here: http://www.gi-po.de/meteorit_nwa%204759.html Carsten -- gipo-meteorites Carsten Giessler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gi-po.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is this guy out of line or is that just me?
Dear Bill All, You're certainly not out of line, at least not if we are talking about the same alleged lunar meteorite. I've seen pretty much all of them, and the photo of the rock in question didn't look remotely like a good candidate to me... Besides that, I'm getting a lot of similar offers with questionable unclassifieds that are presented as 100% lunar, same-same, or sure martian... At the Ste. Marie show last weekend I have been offered pieces of a lunar that sure looked like a probable pairing of the impact-melted eucrite NWA 3159. At a ridiculous price. I told the seller that I was sure that this wasn't a lunar but an eucrite, but he insisted on his own expertise, and kept on advertising it as a new lunar find. And this was one of the better deals around... There are some exceptions, of course, but you're always taking a high risk with unclassified stuff as many of these alleged planetaries turn out to be from our own planet Earth, even if the resemble a shergottite or an anorthositic breccia. Caveat emptor! Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi all, The ebay meteorite scams are getting worse... I've heard a few complaints about NW African dealers... I think the latter has a greater potential for abuse. They used to spam us with lots of common chondrites. Now it's unclassified planetaries, howardites, etc. I think this type of claim is as crazy, even worse, more tempting than most of the ebay goofs. Bill From: mohamed aitouzrou [EMAIL PROTECTED] good morning i am sure it is a lunar meteorite, but not classified yet, i am a honnest seller, many people around the world knows me, if it's not a meteorite, I will give you back your money. the price is $220 per gram. regards Mohamed FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peter's pics of Ensisheim 2007
Hi Alex, Peter, Zelimir, and All, Who am I to disagree ;-) You are correct, that's my back on Pic 13, and I realize that my hair is getting thinner... ,-) Ensisheim has been a blast, by the way, the best show so far, and I returned with no less than five new planetary specimens (three lunar, two martian). More details later as I'm just preparing for my next trip to St. Marie aux Mines, Alsace. If it's only half as good as Ensisheim it will be great. Thanks to Zelimir for organizing the best Ensisheim show ever, to all the attending dealers for their great offers, and to all the friends who were there. You really rock! All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Pic 13: The man in front of Martin Altmann could be Norbert Classen (?) He is, most probably! Norbert? Pic 5: Stefan Ralew and his wife Suzanne. Her name is Sveta, right Stefan? Almost off to our vacation in Denmark, Alex __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OCEANS ON MARS
Hi Rob, Mark, and All, While I doubt that someone will be able to find/prove life on extrasolar planets during the next ten years I'm personally convinced that life itself is not that rare in the vastness that we tend to call our universe. Just imagine the billions of galaxies, each bearing billions and billions of stars, planets, moons, asteroids, comets with water and amino acids, sugar, and all the stuff necessary to plant the seed of life on more than one remote world that we tend to call our planet Earth. If the formation of life is THAT improbable, how does it come that WE are here? If you want a good read on this issue, try Christian de Duve's Vital Dust: Life as a Cosmic Imperative. No, de Duve's not one of those confused dreamers, he's a renowned scientist and a Nobel prize winner... and his book is a real blast. Maybe you will change your mind on what it takes to form life in the first place, from a biochemical point of view. Life rulez! Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I get more convinced as time passes, that we *will* find either active or fossil life forms on Mars in my lifetime. Don't kid yourself Mark, Did you ever do that calculation in physics where you If not, it works out that the chances are that you have to leave the box for something like 10^20 times longer than the universe has been around for to have a chance of it happening or something ridiculous like that. My point is that random chemical production of complex amino acids is one thing but DNA is quite the other and how it manages to develop from a molecule to sentience is off any scale. Completely agree - but we're here to argue about it, right? So, given the universe has a greater than zero chance of life emerging (which I hope we can all agree on, even on metlist), it either happens in a tiny fraction of potential cases, or we're unique. Since I specifically mentioned Mars, I'd argue that the chances are somewhat higher than (arbitrarily) 10^20, because we share a common environment. I'm not positing panspermia (nor ruling it out); just noting the fact that we have a stable single star, a habitable zone which extended further out in geological time, and demonstrably a place where the right stuff emerged to do it at least once. I think Mars is a hot bet, and getting hotter by the year :) A group of British scientists predicted finding life on extrasolar planets in the next 10 years in the last week. How presumptious is this??? Probably pretty presumptious, I agree; but this species does tend to get a little excitable on this topic. I offer myself as a type specimen in evidence ;) You really have to believe that life will form wherever it can which is not the same as life finding a way to hang on Personally, I do believe that life will form, a lot of the time, in an environment where the conditions are right. You're completely right in about 'forming' vs 'hanging on' in a place where it's close to extant life, like sulphur vents vs rainforests - but as I say above, narrow the field of view. Maybe in our solar system, Mars is the sulphur vent to our rainforest? I REALLY think it will be. (ohhh, geez, I hope proof isn't found next week) I'll happily join you in humble pie and a decent pint if we ever get proof either way :) Hell, I'll buy you a pint anyway and we can argue till the cows come home 8) Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] need info composition of lunar meteorites
Hi Dan, I'm pretty sure that he meant anorthite (the mineral), and not anorthosite (the rock type) - it's easy to confuse the two, especially if you consider that most list members or hobby meteorite enthusiasts are no mineralogists, or petrologists. That being said, anorthosite was certainly not found in all rocks returned from the Moon, but if you say anorthitic placioclase that would make perfect sense, even for the lunar mare basalts. It would also make sense to say that most of the ancient lunar crust (the lunar highlands) is composed primarily of anorthositic rocks and breccias - many meteoriticists use the term anorthositic but also the term feldspatic when it comes to the classification of lunar rocks as you will see if you study Randy Korotev's great site about lunar meteorites (the best one around): http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm To quote Randy Korotev: Lunar rocks are classified by what minerals they contain (mineralogy), how the mineral grains are put together (texture), how the rock formed (petrology), and chemical composition (chemistry). These different parameters sometimes leads to confusion because a geochemist might call a rock feldspathic (dominant mineral) or aluminum rich, (chemical composition) while a petrologist might call it an anorthosite (mineral proportions and implied mode of formation) or regolith breccia (texture and and type of rock components). He also notes that not all petrologists (not to speak of mineralogists ,-) do always easily agree on the classification on any given lunar rock (and that's an understatement, IMHO). What I'm trying to say is that it's very easy to make a small mistake in wording when it comes to this particular field when even the scientists do not always agree on how to call a given rock, and when he's used to hear terms like anorthosite-bearing basaltic regolith breccia and the like which are commonly used when it comes to the classification of lunar meteorites. Hope this helps? Best Regards from Germany, Norbert Classen Planetary Meteorites www.meteoris.de PS: I'm no mineralogist/petrologist, but merely an educated layman, and it just happens that lunar meteorites are my favourite obsession... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi, I joined this list at the behest of someone from the IMCA based on concerns I have with something being advertised as a meteorite. Among other errors and misstatements, the ad states that Anorthosite was found in all the rocks returned from the Moon... As a mineralogist I find this difficult to believe. Anorthosite is defined as a rock type that contains 90% feldspar and is off-white in color, with perhaps a few inclusions of other minerals. On the other hand, anorthite (note the subtle difference in spelling) is a mineral species consisting of anorthite feldspar, the calcic end member of the plagioclase series. To make things more confusing, anorthite occurs as a component of anorthosite, but the two words mean quite different things. I sent two e-mails to the seller via eBay, and have received no response. I would have liked to think the seller simply made some mistakes and listed a common terrestrial rock as a meteorite, but the lack of response gives me doubt. However, I am also curious about where he might have obtained the statement with which I opened this note, as far as whether the original publication indeed says anorthite and that is simply a mistype on his part. Thanks, Dan __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dhofar 908 3-lithology photo
Hi David, and All, Stephan's photo shows another section through the 81 main mass of Dhofar 908, and it's actually one of the very few pieces that has all three major lithologies. The three lithologies are spatially separated in the main mass, with one end consisting mostly of a clast poor, brownish IMB similar to Dhofar 305, while the middle of the stone mainly consists of a clast rich IMB with large anorthositic and other lithic fragments as can be seen in the lower part of my favourite slice, and which is similar to Dhofar 306, and other pairings: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/Dho908-2.54g.JPG The upper, dark part seems to be a more mature regolith breccia, something that is consistent with cosmogenic nuclides studies by Kuni Nishiizumi. Speaking of that, this is a very old meteorite, and only one lunar meteorite has a even higher terrestrial age, Dhofar 025 pairings. According to Kuni Nishiizumi's studies, Dhofar 908 has a terrestrial age of approximately 350,000 years, placing its fall into lower palaeolithic times, and the reign of Homo erectus rather than Homo sapiens. Back to Stephan's slice: it has another special feature to the lower right - that large round redish clast seems to be a troctolite, and it's most similar to large clasts in Dhofar 310. I won't call this a fourth lithology because it's just a clast, but it's rather fascinating, though. Nice! All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello All, This List is amazing at times. I asked if there was a photo from the Rosetta Stone of Dhofar 908 showing the 3 lithologies, and Stephan Kambach very kindly sent me one. It's a beauty too! I have it displayed on my webpage at the bottom along with his explanation of the various components -- be sure to click the photo for a greatly magnified view. It's a must see. http://meteoritestudies.com/protected_DHOF908.HTM Thanks Stephan (and Norbert for finding it). David __ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dhofar 908 3-lithology photo
Hi Martin, Very, very nice samples! They remind me more of the original NWA 773 than any other of the paired finds. Neat!!! Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Dave and Norbert, than we should contibute also that dual-lithology pictures from one of our lunars: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/olivine-gabbro.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/olivinegabbro-3.771g.jpg Great, aren't they? Chladni's Heirs. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dhofar 908 3-lithology photo
Hi Dave, and All, No need to be sorry - NWA is another great example of a lunar with three lithologies, and it's also kind of a missing link between other paired stones: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA-2.092g.jpg If you just had a stone displaying the ol-phyric basaltic lithology only, such as NWA 3160... http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA3160-1.050g.jpg ...and another stone that consisted entirely of olivine-gabbro, such as NWA 2977... http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA2977-2.890g.jpg ...you would hardly notice that you are dealing with potentially paired stones if it wasn't for these multi-lithology samples such as NWA 2727: http://www.meteoris.de/img/ncc-lun/NWA2727-3.36g.jpg For more detailed information please visit Randy Korotev's great page at: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/nwa0773.htm Enjoy! Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Sorry to intrude on your discussion once again on Dho 908 and also changing the subject a bit, but I think one of my favorite lunar slices has to be NWA that Norbert has on his web site. Seems to me from my uneducated eye, that this particular lunar slice has more than one lithologies, but I`m probably wrong. Can we get an explanation on this one to extend this fascinating subject a while longer and possibly a photo for everyone to see? Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rosetta Stone Analogy
Hi Peter, Adam, and All, Adam is correct: I used this term to describe the 81g main mass of lunar meteorite Dhofar 908 since March 2003 for its three distinct lithologies which linked the various finds Dhofar 302, 303, 305, 306, 307, 309, 310, 311, 730, 731, and 489 together - most of them representing just one of three lithologies, making it difficult to establish clear pairing relationships among the distinct finds. That's what the original Rosetta stone was all about, linking different languages to each other and allowing scientists to arrive at a deeper understanding and a broader view... Baker, Bizzaro et. al. used this term for angrite SAH99555, but not prior to August 2005 to the best of my knowledge (SAH99555 was found in 1999, but the paper in question wasn't published that many years ago - it was published in late 2005). So I did beat them to the analogy for at least two years, but I don't mind. An analogy is just another way to describe a certain property of a given object, and at least in my eyes the Rosetta stone analogy fits as well for Dhofar 908 and its distinct lithologies linking previous finds to each other as for SAH99555 and its distinct isotopic clocks (both analogous to the distinct writing systems that have been found on the original Stone of Rosette). In any case, I have been plagiarizing noone when using that term to describe Dhofar 908, and its properties/lithologies... And neither did Adam. Hope this sheds some light on this issue. Lunatic Regards, Norbert PS: To me Dhofar 908 isn't just a bit special meteorite because it is a rather unique lunar, and because it has three telling lithologies - it was my very first meteorite find. So don't throw beer cans at it unless you want to get me upset ,-) Who's that SAH99555, anyway ;-?? -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Peter and List, I am going with what Norbert Classen had to say about this being the Rosetta Stone. I believe he is the one who coined the term for this single stone. As far as I know, it is the only stone in the Dhofar series that has two lithologies possible tying two pairing sets together. I think the term Rosetta is fitting in this regards. All the best, Adam --- Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dhofar 908...Rosetta stone? For many years that expression was used for NWA 99555: A very important new paper on our angrite SAH99555 (Sahara 99555, a 2710g single stone with black fusion crust found by our team in May 1999) was published in the last issue of the scientific journal Nature. In the words of co-authors Joel Baker, Director of Geology School of Earth Sciences, University of Wellington, NEW ZEALAND, and Martin Bizarro, Leader, MC-ICP-MS Laboratory, University of Copenhagen, DENMARK : Your angrite meteorite find SAH9955 is now the oldest absolutely dated igneous rock in the Solar System, has clear evidence for the former presence of short-lived 26Al in it (which caused planetesimal melting), and very likely will become the Rosetta Stone for early Solar System chronology... Will every a bit special meteorite be nicknamed Rosetta Stone now? To my knowledge Dhofar 908 is paired with Dhofar 302, 303, 305, 306, 307, 309, 310, 311, 730, 731, 489, 908, 909, 911, 950, and 1085... It seems that Dho 908 has something that all those others do not have. This is very interesting and I'd be very pleased to know more about that phenomenon. Thank you! Peter __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rosetta Stone Analogy
Dear Marcin, I didn't use that term for marketing reasons, and it is not a synonym for Dhofar 908 in general but I just used it for the 81g main mass of Dhofar 908, displaying three distinct lithologies linking previous finds together. That's why I called it a Rosetta stone. Back in 2003 virtually nobody was willing to believe that e.g. Dhofar 489, and Dhofar 305 did belong to one and the same (ancient) fall. That's not the same thing as calling it Donald Duck, it's a linguistic ploy to express something of scientific meaning... Do you think Baker and Bizzaro used their analogy as a marketing ploy, or just because the liked the funny name? BTW, as to my knowledge neither Adam nor I did use the Rosetta stone analogy without making it very clear that we were talking about Dhofar 908, not in general, but in respect to a certain stone/fragment of Dhofar 908, and its special history/properties. And, as for the monetary value of certain specimens: do you think that a specimen of, let's say normal Zagami will demand the same resale price as a specimen with dual lithologies, including the DML (dark mottled lithology) of Zagami? You are correct, the meteorite will stay the same, but I fear you won't get the latter one, cheap. And: if you know of a source who sells dual-lith Zagami at the price of normal Zagami, just give me a call :-) My 3 lithologies, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von PolandMET Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2007 00:01 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rosetta Stone Analogy Dear list members. Every meteorite is special. For me is better to call meteorite with his official name even if this is ugly NWA 999 name, than create some unreal marketing names that have nothing to do with meteorites. I see only one reason for this, better sales becouse of better name. If we call it Rosetta Stone, Louis Michelle or Donald Duck or Shrek, meteorite will stay the same and not become more importand or rare. Thats my two CH3nt's -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MORE ON KALAHARI 008 - 009
Hi Sterling, and All, In the meantime, at least two other (rather experienced) teams have checked the alleged find location of the Kalahari lunars, and all are reporting the same: that's no place to hunt for meteorites, there are no sand dunes as described in the MetBull entry for the Kalahari lunars, and so at least the find location seems to be questionable. Sterling wrote: However, please note that the Bischoff paper says that the other four samples were recovered during geological field work in various areas of Botswana. If the finder was doing geological field work, this suggests that the finder is a geologist, which is not an absolute disqualifier for a knowledge of meteorites. Presumably, he is working near Kuke because he's already acquired meteorites from there. Presumed that the finder of Kalahari 008/009, and the finder of the other four stones are one and the same person. I have my doubts about that. According to what I've heard first hand, the finder of the Kalahari lunars is a South African diamond prospector, and it's certainly not usual if not illegal to prospect for diamonds in a natural reserve. Anyway, I still believe that these finds have been planted into Botswana - the whole story is odd, as are the missing photos of the masses. If it's an elaborate setup for the reasons Norbert suggested, it's a damned good one. Try to prove otherwise... On the other hand, if he's a geologist in the largest sandcovered area of the planet and sees a large rock, ANY large rock, doesn't he check it? The area is covered with more or less dense vegetation, and that's part of the problem. It's as improbable to find a lunar there as it would be to find it in the loess covered vineyards of the Kaiserstuhl area where I live... And I know my lunars... Adam compared the Kalahari stones to the Dhofar lunars, and I think that's a pretty good comparison from the first look at Randy's photos. At least the small feldspathic sample reminds me a lot of certain Omani finds. So I might have picked this rock up - BUT, I recall it very well: when I returned with Dho 908 and 909 even some scientists had no hope for these ugly ducklings, devoid of any fusion crust that would have revealed their extraterrestrial origin. Back to our geologist/diamond prospector in the Kalahari: I still think that Jeff's words were wisely put: ... it sounds improbable that a person who's not into meteorites at all recovers a large lunaite, AND - having no idea of what he has there - combs the place for additional fragments. That's really odd. Something's wrong in the State of Botswana, but I have no idea what. Take care, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Letters on centimeter cubes?
Hi Greg, Jerry, and All, The cube can be put to use in a way that the letters also make sense in a studio environment, i.e. you define the Top and, let's say, the North side of the stone. I did this for the documentation of various planetary masses prior to cutting - have a look at the following example, the main mass of lunar meteorite Dhofar 1084, and you will see what I mean: http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084b.JPG http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084c.JPG http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084d.JPG http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084f.JPG http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084i.JPG http://www.meteoris.de/cube/Dho1084j.JPG This way you won't have problems to keep track of the original spatial orientation of the meteorite, making it more easy to get an impression of the entire mass, and its original shape. Of course, 3D movies are even better, but if you like photo series this is a good way to put the letters to use ,-) Hope this helps, Norbert Planetary Meteorites http://www.meteoris.de -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Jerry, Good question regarding the scale cubes and if there is a certain way to orient the cube for photographing specimens after they have been removed from original find site. I personally put T on the top and usually W to the left, not for any particular reason, except for the obvious T for top. It would be interesting if there is a standard out there for the orientation of the cubes in a studio setting, I would think there would not be. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 - Original Message - I've owned a pair of 10 mm cubes but haven't used them in any photos. I imagine the letters signify the 4 compass directions and top bottom. With an oriented FALL in situ, I understand how the cube would be used. My question is, if photographing a purchased meteorite for the purposes of scale ONLY, where orientation is not an obvious factor, is there a preferred cube face or is it arbitrary, up to the photographer? Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Pallasite, photos.
Hi Mike, Ruben, and All, I'd like to second Ruben's congratulations on this fantastic find - well done Mike! This one is extra-cool because it's a cold find. Great in situ pictures, by the way! So keep on rocking, and never mind the trolls. Best, Norbert Norbert Classen Planetary Meteorites http://www.meteoris.de -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Mike and All, Congratulations!!! You are the man Mike, an impressive find indeed!! I'm not sure if most of the list can fully appreciate how hard it is to find a meteorite, even when you're right in the middle of the strewn field. Finding a pallasite is an awesome feeling. I know that you are one of only a handfull of people that have ever found a Glorieta Mountain Pallasite. How many different pallasites have you personally found? I'm assuming Imilac, Glorieta Mountain and this new one, any others? Ruben Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Orleans
Bill, Maybe you could do some research prior to posting such a comment? First, IMCA is not selling meteorites (some IMCA members are), and Al Falster is no IMCA member. Go and check our members list at www.imca.cc ... Second, you can't buy an IMCA number - each applicant for IMCA membership needs recommending members, and each application is thouroghly checked by our Membership Committee and voted upon by the IMCA Board of Directors. We received about 1 application per day, during the first two months of this year, and not even 20% of the applicants make the vote - so it's not just about paying dues, it's about authenticity, and proper business practices. I fear that a man without a last name (who's Bill anyway?) wouldn't even master the first steps to IMCA membership. And, answering your question: it surely would do no harm to have a scientist look at your crumbs prior to selling them as PF, would it? It sounds like you are not sure that these actually do represent the Real McCoy... In any case, as an IMCA member you would have to grant the authenticity of each and every specimen you sell, and it would be YOUR task to take care of the proper steps to do so. My point being obvious, I hope ... All the best, Norbert Classen Vice President IMCA Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Ken, Most of us know about the N.O. excursion. Point is, how reliable can the authenticty of street crumbs be? Can the IMCA vouch for each and every crumb that's sold by a member of your org.? I have buckets of very nice crumbs from PF that I could market. Can I sell if I buy an imca number or do I need the crumbs authenticated. Any volunteers? My point being obvious, I hope. Bill -Original Message- Hi Bruce, After the fall on the Fausset home, Al Falster (ebay seller 'flabster'), a geologist from the University of New Orleans and a group of students collected impact fragments off the streets surrounding the residence. Since then, Al and others have been selling the small 'street' fragments on ebay. http://www.uno.edu/pegmatology/pub/meteor/meteor.html (photos) http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znpneworleans.html best, ken newton Bruce Yankewitz wrote: Seems to me that virtually all of the New Orleans meteorite to reach the collector market has been in almost indentical, crumb-sized pieces. Anyone know why this is so? Bruce __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Orleans
Bill, Is this a rhetoric question? Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Norbert, What's wrong with this picture? Bill -Original Message- Bill, Maybe you could do some research prior to posting such a comment? First, IMCA is not selling meteorites (some IMCA members are), and Al Falster is no IMCA member. Go and check our members list at www.imca.cc ... Second, you can't buy an IMCA number - each applicant for IMCA membership needs recommending members, and each application is thouroghly checked by our Membership Committee and voted upon by the IMCA Board of Directors. We received about 1 application per day, during the first two months of this year, and not even 20% of the applicants make the vote - so it's not just about paying dues, it's about authenticity, and proper business practices. I fear that a man without a last name (who's Bill anyway?) wouldn't even master the first steps to IMCA membership. And, answering your question: it surely would do no harm to have a scientist look at your crumbs prior to selling them as PF, would it? It sounds like you are not sure that these actually do represent the Real McCoy... In any case, as an IMCA member you would have to grant the authenticity of each and every specimen you sell, and it would be YOUR task to take care of the proper steps to do so. My point being obvious, I hope ... All the best, Norbert Classen Vice President IMCA Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Ken, Most of us know about the N.O. excursion. Point is, how reliable can the authenticty of street crumbs be? Can the IMCA vouch for each and every crumb that's sold by a member of your org.? I have buckets of very nice crumbs from PF that I could market. Can I sell if I buy an imca number or do I need the crumbs authenticated. Any volunteers? My point being obvious, I hope. Bill -Original Message- Hi Bruce, After the fall on the Fausset home, Al Falster (ebay seller 'flabster'), a geologist from the University of New Orleans and a group of students collected impact fragments off the streets surrounding the residence. Since then, Al and others have been selling the small 'street' fragments on ebay. http://www.uno.edu/pegmatology/pub/meteor/meteor.html (photos) http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znpneworleans.html best, ken newton Bruce Yankewitz wrote: Seems to me that virtually all of the New Orleans meteorite to reach the collector market has been in almost indentical, crumb-sized pieces. Anyone know why this is so? Bruce GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Total Lunar Eclipse
Hi Peter, Bernd, and Listees, That's fascinating: please count me in - I've seen that shooting star too, also slightly West of the Red Moon! Tripple WOW :-) Enjoy the eclipse, whereever you are! All the best from Southern Germany, Norbert PS: Of course, any lunar eclipse can be best enjoyed with a piece of the Moon in your hands ,-) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi List, The total lunar eclipse is in full swing and I just caught a glimpse of the totally eclipsed Moon through an opening in the clouds. The central area of the Moon's disk is a bright orange and the rim is a yellow-orange hue. Looks like a relatively bright eclipse, i.e. the atmosphere is relatively free of volcanic dust, etc. I've seen eclipses when the Moon was so dark you could hardly recognize it. Peter just wrote and this is astonishing: a light shooting star crossed the red moon Astonishing because I've seen that too (slightly west of the Moon's disk from where I live here in Germany) and thought it was my imagination ... moonstruck :-) Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AW: Missing Tucson this year - So how about Ensisheim???
Dear Adam, David, and All, I'm sure you both would enjoy a visit to one of the European shows, and not just as a substitute for Tucson. The Munich show is always fantastic, for example, but Ensisheim might be even more of an experience as it is not just another rock gem show, but one of the few true meteorite shows in the world. Hey, and if you want to see more than just stupid old space rocks, all those crazy meteorite people, and that ol' Thunderstone at the Regency Palace of Ensisheim (just kidding, Zelimir ,-)), you might like to extend your stay for another week to visit the Ste. Marie aux Mines Show nearby. It's one of Europe's best rock gem shows, and always worth a visit, too. If you are bored in between the shows this would also be a great opportunity to visit me at my home right across the German border - you both would be more than welcome! We have no margaritas enchilladas, but a great pinot gris tarte flambe - and oh those cherries at my home :-)) Just ask Dave Schultz, Jim Strope Mike Farmer who visited me last year. How about some of those cherries, Mike, fresh from the trees ;-?? You're always welcome! Here are the dates of this years Ensisheim Ste. Marie Shows: Ensisheim Meteorite Show, Alsace, France, June 15-17, 2007 Ste. Marie aux Mines Show, Alsace, France, June 21-24, 2007 Hope to see a lot of familiar, and new faces there! All the best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Friday Fun - 3-D Video NWA 4468 Martian
Hi Greg, and All, That's one hell of a great video clip of an even more fascinating Mars rock - thanks for sharing it! Talking of NWA 4468: I also loved your recovery story, published in the November issue of METEORITE. If you don't have it, get it - it's a great read. All the best, and a very Merry Christmas to you all! Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Dear List, To start the holiday in the right direction, check out this 3-D video I made of NWA 4468, my new Martian meteorite on the cover of Meteorite Magazine. It is still being classified so the simple Shergottite classification isn't entirely accurate. I will announce the full classification within a couple weeks after some pertinent data reveals what the scientists will call it. 3-D video (please allow a minute to load, plays on Media Player, etc.) http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4468/nwa4468videoredsmall.avi Photo of complete slice http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4468/nwa4468slice.jpg I was going to wait to share these until I received the true classification but thought it would make for nice gift to all from me. Enjoy! Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Turkish Scientists in Search for 14thCenturyMeteorite
Hi Sterling, Bernd, and All, Sterling: thanks for your thoughts on this - a nice read, and some great information. I also compiled some information on meteorites in cult and religion on my site, and the respective pages can be found here: http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult1.html http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult2.html http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult3.html http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult4.html These pages also include some descent photos of the Hadschar al Aswad (the Black Stone of Mecca), and the Black Stone of Paphos. On the latter one you wrote: The home temple of Aphrodite was at Paphos on Cyprus and very old. The tapering black stone which was the object of verneration at this Temple still survives, even if it now placed inside the site musuem. It doesn't seem to be a meteorite, which is odd because it was said to be, in ancient times. Perhaps it never was a meteorite, or the present stone may be a replacement for a lost original. Yeap, the Black Stone at the museum in Kouklia (Palaeo-Paphos) is certainly no meteorite, but a huge andesitic bolder. I visited Paphos, and the Black Stone earlier this year just to find out. You can view my detailed report in one of the back issues of IMCA Insights, published in cooperation with Meteorite-Times: http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights4.htm The stunning thing is that the Black Stone of Paphos is a pretty good meteorwrong - have a look at the photo. It's even more convincing in real, and only a close inspection will tell you that it's no rock from space. That made me ask in my report: Why the heck did the people in the Late Bronze Age opt for such striking meteor-wrong? Maybe it was deliberately chosen because it resembled a real bethyl, or maybe the ancient Achaeans even believed it to be a real meteorite? If so, they would have to be familiar with at least some actual meteorites - something that leaves much room for speculation, and future investigations. I'm actually convinced that they knew meteorites, and their typical look. And I'm sure that other (real) samples are sitting in some museums, just waiting to be re-discovered. The day of archaeo-meteoritics will come, I'm sure about that ;-) So, where the heck did the Palladion of Troy end up? Possibly in the Vatikan, or in some Italian museum? I'd love to check it more closely. All the best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Scales - Looking for Advice
Thanks Michael, your comments surely help. The scales I had in mind are all in the 100$ range, like you said, and they are small portable instruments. Anyway, I guess I'll have to look around on the net to find out which one is the most accurate of these. And before I forget it: I'd also like to thank all the other people who responded. All the best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Michael L Blood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Dezember 2006 16:36 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Scales - Looking for Advice Hi Norbert, You write, I'm looking for an affordable but precise digital pocket scale. In some ways, the qualities you seek are mutually exclusive. You want: 1) Portable 2) Precise (a variable term) 3) Affordable - also a variable term. Let me share my own experience regarding the exact same desires and also what I have seen: I own a 4 KG scale accurate to within .1g - However, I had to pay to have it calibrated exactly where it sits in my office and not move it for it to remain stable and predictable in its accuracy. (according to the calibrator, who spoke of various factors such as how close other metal objects are as well as NEVER moving the scale). This scale costs over $1,000 new, though I got it used and paid for factory refurbishing and then calibration on site for much less, as a friend sold it to me for like $75 without one of the parts, which I easily replaced from the manufacturer. At the other extreme, I have a scale that goes to 120g. This is also a non-portable scale and weighs to 1/1,000th of a gram and cost me about $5,40. Third, I have a portable (battery driven) scale that weighs up to like 200 Kg. It is amazingly light for what it does and only cost about $100, though I do not know how precise it is. It is, of course, for big irons or gigantic stones, and I take it to the show - I keep it in the motor home, as I have infrequent use for it in the office. It is portable. The 4th scale I use is closer to what you want: It is a Tanita portable (Model #1481) and cost me $42.50. It is VERY slim, metal, light and fits easily into a shirt pocket. They list for $89 or $99 on the Tanita site, but several dealers offer them on eBay new and in the box. One offers hem for the incredible price of $42.50. It will weigh up to 120g at 1/10th of a gram. I have not compared this new one with my 4Kg scale, but the old Tanita I had for years weighed exactly to the same 1/10th gram as the stationary scale that was calibrated. None of these are likely to be what you want, but generally demonstrate the range in prices and the problem presented with a mobile unite combining fine measurement with low price. At the show, I have seen many units that claim to measure to the 1/100th of a gram with accuracy with similar mobility. I think they are about $120. You can even get a small, but not truly pocket portable unit that will go to 1/1,000 th of a gram and are said to be inexpensive - but I am not clear what that means. You would likely be best satisfied with a truly portable unit that measures to 1/100th in the $100 cost range, but only you would know for sure. Best wishes, Michael on 12/8/06 4:18 PM, Norbert Classen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm tired of visiting the petrologic lab of our local university each time I want to accurately weigh a new sample. Besides that, I would love to have a small but precise portable scale that I could carry to the shows... Since I'm mostly into micros, and more rare meteorites, such as lunar or martians, I'm looking for an affordable but precise digital pocket scale, best with 1mg or 2mg resolution, and now I'm wondering how accurate the more common gem and diamond scales actually are. Does anyone of you, collectors and dealers, have some experience with the accuracy, and properties of one of the following scales? - Gempro 50 (My Weight) - JS-VG 20 (Jennings) - JPG 10 (JScale Precision/Jennings) These are the ones that seem to be more common. Would you recommend the one or the other? Any other scales that you could recommend? Thanks for your input, and for your advice! All the best, Norbert http://www.meteoris.de/ Planetary Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair -- What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It is what we know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Scales - Looking for Advice
Jim wrote: I for one would like to hear your final conclusion. I have considered buying such a scale for some time. I have been too busy, or too lazy if I am to be honest, to do my homework and would love to benefit from your efforts. I am sure I'm one of many on the list that has considered buying a scale so I'm sure others would be interested as well. Good idea - I will certainly let you and the list know. And as soon as I have my new scale I will test it as I have quite a few samples that have been weighed rather precisely on A grade laboratory scales. So let's see what these cheaper portable precision scales can do. This might take some weeks, but I will surely come back to it. All the best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Scales - Looking for Advice
Hi All, I'm tired of visiting the petrologic lab of our local university each time I want to accurately weigh a new sample. Besides that, I would love to have a small but precise portable scale that I could carry to the shows... Since I'm mostly into micros, and more rare meteorites, such as lunar or martians, I'm looking for an affordable but precise digital pocket scale, best with 1mg or 2mg resolution, and now I'm wondering how accurate the more common gem and diamond scales actually are. Does anyone of you, collectors and dealers, have some experience with the accuracy, and properties of one of the following scales? - Gempro 50 (My Weight) - JS-VG 20 (Jennings) - JPG 10 (JScale Precision/Jennings) These are the ones that seem to be more common. Would you recommend the one or the other? Any other scales that you could recommend? Thanks for your input, and for your advice! All the best, Norbert http://www.meteoris.de/ Planetary Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar?
Hi Gary, I see actually nothing that would make me think that this sample could be of lunar origin. The overall texture, color, and appearance doesn't even hint to a meteoritic origin. Probably just another terrestrial rock. Sorry. All the best, Norbert Classen http://www.meteoris.de/ Planetary Meteorites -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Gary K. Foote Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. November 2006 16:05 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lunar? Hi All, I received this slice from a friend who believes it may be a lunar. I've lightly dry polished it with 400 grit and scanned it for web presentation. If anyone on this list is familiar with lunars can you take a look? I know there can be no definitive answer without proper classification, but educated eyeballs may be able to spot things that eliminate it as a lunar. http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/lunar.html Thanks for your help, Gary Foote http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Black Stone...
Kevin wrote: Thought this was Interesting!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone Be sure to check my site if you want to see a moderate picture of the Hadschar al Aswad at: http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult3.html More on black stones and religion, including a photo of the Black Stone of Paphos at: http://www.meteoris.de/basics/cult2.html Enjoy, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Libyan Desert Glass?
Peter wrote: the LDG of this seller looks a bit strange. Is it real or fake? What do the experts think? http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcommon_murreQQhtZ-1 I'm certainly no expert for LDG, but this looks much like hyalithe to me, i.e. opal, and not like LDG. The last piece on his list is surely no LDG, either. Adding to that, this is a new seller from the land of fakes (China) with minimal feedback - so buyers beware! Best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] CRE ages of Nakhlites and NWA 998
Jerry wrote: Help! CRE age?? CRE age = cosmic radiation exposure age. As soon as a chunk of matter has been released into space from its parent body it gets exposed to the solar wind and cosmic radiation, and as soon as it lands on our planet the period of exposure ends. The particles/isotopes implanted by the solar wind and by cosmic radiation can be measured, and the CRE age can be determined, meaning the transition time from the meteorite's parent body to Earth, i.e., the time that it has been actually floating in open space as a meteoroide. Not to be confused with crystallisation age or terrestrial age... Hope this helps, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Re: Goran Lindfors Lunar Meteorites
Hi Sonny, and All, You might want to have a look at Randy Korotev's Statement regarding alleged lunar meteorites from Sweden from October 3, 2006: http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/meteorwrongs/m098.htm Hope this clears it up ,-) All the best, Norbert -Planetary Meteorites- http://www.meteoris.de/ -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi , What's the deal on Goran Lindfors Lunar meteorites? He has placed 20 posts and many pictures of his lunar meteorites on the Nugget Shooter web site. If you hurry you might be able to buy one! Thanks, Sonny http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8388 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mega-Chondrule
Marcin wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=110044409830 This piece make me realy crazy. I have cut some ordinary meteorite fragments. I could expect anything special in this low quality material except rust, missing iron and dark matrix. But then a big surprize. One of my most lucky cuts I have ever made. I have cut this specimen just perfect into center of a large chondrule. Im not 100% sure , but this one looks like extra large 10x8 mm chondrule. I'm pretty sure that it is a huge chondrule or mega-chondrule. These are not common, but you can find them from time to time, especially in L6 material. Have a look at my website, and at the picture on the lower right on the following page (click the photo to load up a larger image): http://www.meteoris.de/basics/class2.html This is a nice 10x8mm mega-chondrule in L6 chondrite HaH 173, and it has virtually the same size as the object in your sample. BTW, if anyone is interested, I still have the sister slice of this one for trade or sale (with only 7x5mm for the mega-chondrule, though, but with a neat 5x3mm troilite blob, too). Pictures and specifications on request. Best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Doug wrote: In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established... Hi Doug, and All, 20 years ago a lot of people believed: In 20 years a Mars Colony will be established... In Kubrick's 2001 we even made it to Jupiter, and its moon Europa in a shorter period of time. And look at where we are now - they (ESA, NASA, etc.) are even having big troubles in getting the ISS ready until 2010, not to speak about returning to the Moon :-( Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to book a room in the Luna Hilton, and I perfectly agree that our future is out there... I'm just trying to be a bit more realistic ,-) Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time. And before ideologies change and we catch up to it... Yeap, ideologies and paradigms change pretty fast, these days... But, to come back to meteorites, I believe Martin is right - meteorites are a non-renewable resource. Maybe they might be recycleable up to some point, as you say, but just imagine that the number of collectors might double in a few years, and then again double in a few years more, etc., and all those tiny stocks we have now will be a drop lost in an ocean. Exponentially yours, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] OT Giant insect attacks Germany!
Kevin wrote: It looks like an earwig. Any ideas on how it ended up on a google maps image? Darren responded: Apparently, original film images were scanned into digital files an one was squished onto that particular frame. Now, to get that post meteorite-related, and to stirr the pot a bit more: The funny thing is that this killer-wig is flying close to the Ries impact crater, Germany. Zoom out a bit, and you'll find the city of Noerdlingen to the east of the beast - the center of the Ries basin. Just a coincidence, Scully ;-? Amused and amazed, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] IMCA Insights, Sept. 06, and IMCA Elections
Dear List Members, dear IMCA Members, This is a message that is mainly for the IMCA Members who don't subscribe to the IMCA Mailing List, or who have changed their email address more recently and haven't updated their information with us. Right now, we are having our annual public elections for the IMCA Board of Directors, and last year many of you complained that you weren't aware of the elections at all. To avoid this, we decided to go a bit more public, this year, and we devoted the current issue of IMCA Insights, published in cooperation with Meteorite-Times, to the annual elections. Please make sure to read this: http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights9.htm Normally, I would have waited for Paul and Jim to announce it together with the September issue of Meteorite-Times; but since it looks as if Meteorite-Times won't be up in time, we decided to go ahead, and to send you the link right now. There are only 9 days left for completing the nomination process, and so, if you are an IMCA member in good standing, you only have 9 more days to tell the Board that you are a Candidate. Please find all the other relevant information in the September issue of IMCA Insights. Thanks, and have a great weekend! All the best, Norbert Classen Vice President, IMCA Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] New Quiz
Hi Christian, Martin, and All, Hmmm, looks real to me, and since Christian didn't protect it from the moisture I guess it must be a meteorite that's used to a more wet environment. My first guess would be Morasko - or should I say Muddy Morasko ;-? My second guess would be Muonionalusta (not really, but the name rings SOOO nice); and my third guess is a huge Gibeon in the garden of the NHM Vienna... Tambo Quemado, Norbert Planetary Meteorites www.meteoris.de/ -Martin Buckleboo Altmann wrote:- Not a hard task, it's Korngasse 006 Buckleboo -Christian Anti-Pluton Anger wrote:- Hi all, a new Quiz is on time ! Just a break for the boring Plutons List That's it: It is located in Austria. see www.austromet.com/trips/xxx1.jpg and www.austromet.com/trips/xxx2.jpg (it was raining, therefore the specimen was wet) happy guessing, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Gather Around the Good Stuff - Auctions Ending!
Dear Menno, and All, You probably didn't intend to sent this to the list, but solely to Adam. Hmm, but since it showed up I guess I owe you a response. NWA 3186 actually is a new martian meteorite, but it's not really new. It belongs to the NWA 1068/1110 pairing grouplet from Maarir, Morocco, and it has a small TKW of just 15g, consisting of mostly small fragments. It has been classified by Dr. Ted Bunch (NAU), but it's not yet official because it hasn't been voted upon by the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society, thus far. You will find pictures of this find, and additional data on it in my Martian Meteorite News Archive at: http://www.meteoris.de/mars/news-arch.html (entry from March 15, 2006) All the best, Norbert Classen Planetary Meteorites www.meteoris.de Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Menno A. Mennes Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. August 2006 21:40 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] AD - Gather Around the Good Stuff - Auctions Ending! Hi Adam, I hope you are doing fine. Currently I am writing my PhD dissertation so I have very little time to spend on my meteorites ;-) I was checking the meteorite-list and came across some new sites. On one of these I found NWA 3186 being mentioned as a possible new martian. Do you happen to know anything about it? I guess it was submitted around 2005. Please let me know if you might have any news on this or any new martians coming up, I'd appreciate. All the best and take care! Menno (Ebay id Online-auction) IMCA 9510 M.A. Mennes Rapenburg 112A 2311 GB Leiden The Netherlands DISCLAIMER** This e-mail and any attachment sent with it are intended exclusively for the addressee(s), and may not be passed on to, or made available for use by any person other than the addressee(s). Any and every liability resulting from any electronic transmission is ruled out. Deze e-mail en alle daarbij meegezonden bijlagen zijn uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde(n). Verstrekking aan en gebruik door anderen is niet toegestaan. Iedere aansprakelijkheid die voortvloeit uit elektronische verzending wordt uitgesloten. ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Contact Eric Twelker
Hi, I'm trying to contact Eric Twelker of MeteoriteMarket since some days now, but all my emails to his usual address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) are bouncing back. Eric, if you read this, would you be so kind to contact me? Thanks. If any of you have an alternative email address for Eric, feel free to send me a note off-list. Thanks a lot. All the best, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA 773 lunar pairings
Hi David, Dave, and All, Yes, this pairing grouplet represents a most heterogenous lunar breccia - pretty unique. If you'd like to see photos of samples of the respective members/numbers, please have a look at the Non-Antarctic Lunar Listing on my brand-new website: http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list-non.html Go to 6a, 6b, and 6c, and click on the respective specimen weights in the NCC column to load up high-res pictures in a new window. BTW, feel free to explore, and to look around on my new site www.meteoris.de - several pages are still under construction, or have to be added, but I guess you will enjoy much of the content that's already online. Best, Norbert PS: BIG congrats to Mike, Morten, and Robert on their new find! Can't wait to see the first pictures of it! -David Weir wrote:- Dave and List, I believe you are seeing the individual descriptions of a variety of clasts comprising a single large fragmental breccia meteorite. The fact that this was such a fragmental breccia was not made clear until many of the smaller individual lithologies were found and analyzed and determined to belong together. My point about NomCom concerned the issue of whether these new Bulletin entries (e.g., NWA 2727) would be permitted to include a statement about its likely pairing to NWA 773. I didn't think that NomCom rules would permit this, even though it would be beneficial information for which to have access. As Jeff acknowledged, it would be the professional journals in which this info would be deseminated. David Dave Carothers wrote: Good evening, all. Can someone please help me out with an explanation? In looking at the Met Bul classifications of the pairings we have: NWA 773, Lunar cumulate olivine norite with regolith breccia NWA 2700 Classification pending NWA 2727 Lunar mare basalt/gabbro breccia NWA 2977 Lunar gabbro NWA 3160 Lunar mare basalt breccia NWA Classification pending To my military mind, it seems to me that the classifications of the above Lunars are divergent enough to wonder how they could be paired. If they are truely paired, shouldn't the original classifications been the same or closer? Thanks, Dave - Original Message - From: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 773 lunar pairings List, Well, the results are in - in the MetSoc 69th Annual Meeting abstract #5235 that is... and just as I had suspected, NWA 773 has any brothers and sisters: NWA 2700 (previously with Boswell), 2727 (Oakes et al.), 2977 (Farmer), 3160 (Hupe), and (Kuntz) are all considered to be paired by the eminent scientists Zeigler, Korotev, Jolliff, Bunch, and Irving. Of course, I'm not sure the NomCom rules allow such an official pairing with NWA 773 after the fact, especially with no reliable geographic coordinates. But then a future peer-reviewed journal publication could make it officially official I believe. No matter, the abstract is more than convincing if your own eyes have ever cast doubt on their pairing. I have some revisions to make on my site. David __ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New IMCA Insights Issue up on Meteorite-Times
Dear List Members, I've been a bit late with my most recent article for IMCA Insights, the newsletter of IMCA, and a monthly column in Meteorite-Times. The July issue features a Ensisheim 2006 show report. Please find it at: www.meteorite-times.com (column IMCA Insights) or directly at: http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights7.htm Enjoy, and be sure to visit Ensisheim in 2007! All the best, Norbert Classen Vice President, IMCA Inc. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
FW: [meteorite-list] Email from Serge Comet Meteorite Shop
Dear List Members, Thanks for all your kind replies on Serge's post, and my email - I will forward all your posts to Serge, ASAP. Zelimir Gabelica, the organizer of the Ensisheim show, also sent me a reply, and since he's not able to post directly to the list, he asked me to forward it to you. See his email, below. Best, Norbert Classen Hi Norbert and List, Norbert, thanks for this very important info. Most of us in Ensisheim were wondering indeed what happened with Serge (our current guest) this year but no one was sure whether it was wise to talk more in depth about that sad event (Serge's problems in his country). As this info is now more official (through your post further rumors), here are some further comments from my side. As show organizer and personal friend of Serge, I was contacted in due time by him (through some exotic mail on which he was free to write) and told about his big problems in Russia and his impossibility to be with us again this year. His friends Dmitrij (Dima) Kachalin + wife, Slavomir (Slava) Skorniakov, perhaps some other, were in the same situation and could not come either. However Serge proposed that Comet Meteorite Shop is again represented in Ensisheim in 2006 and that his table is held by another friend of him, Dmitrij (Dima) Siderenko + a colleague. Dima friend (can't remember exactly his name for now) showed up in Ensisheim on Friday as we agreed, and receptioned the 2 big parcels of about 25 kg each, obviously full of meteorites, sent earlier to me by Serge co from a certain country that obviously was not Russia. All went well, Dima friend had a good time and sold well many of their superb meteorites (mostly from Oman). Dima's smile and kindness were unanimoisly appreciated (see his photo on Peter Marmet's site, Ensisheim 2006 report, part 1, picture entitled Anne Black and a russian meteorite dealer, taken during the Friday party). I did not want to bother Dima more about Serge's problems, believing that they decided it was wiser to remain silent about a situation that, if extensively debated, could potentially do some more harm to Serge. I met again Dima and 2 other of his friends from Russia at Ste Marie e few days later and learned a little more about the situation in Russia, roughly the same as explained by Norbert here. The good news, that duly confirms that the rumor we won't see the Russians again at future shows isn't true, is that all of Serge's freinds are strongly convinced that Serge will re-appear soon again on the meteorite scene, among us, perhaps in Munich, most probably in 2007 (Tucson?). Could this new rumor become true! At least, we now have another appreciated partner, Dima Siderenko, within the CMS friendly team. Norbert, I still have problems to send my posts to the List so please send a copy of this mail both to Serge and List. Thank you and my best wishes to all, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Email from Serge Comet Meteorite Shop
Dear List Members, Not long ago, there has been some discussion on this list about the people of Comet Meteorite Shop, Russian dealers, etc., and some rumors even had it that we won't see the Russians again at future shows. As you can see from the recent Ensisheim show reports, these rumors are not true as there was a delegation of the Comet Meteorite Shop people at the Ensisheim show, and at the St. Marie aux Mines shows. As always, they had a great selection of meteorites from Dhofar, and other locations. Anyway, the Comet Meteorite Shop people have been encountering problems, and things haven't completely solved until now. So Serge Afanasiev asked me to forward an explanation to the list so that you all get a better idea of what's been going on in Russia, and what the problems are actually all about. Please find Serge's post below. All the best, Norbert Classen PS: Since Serge isn't on the list, anymore, I will also forward your replies to him. -- Dear List, In late October 2005, me and my friends were going to the Munich show with a lot of stuff. We were intending to go by car through Finland - we had plans to visit the Muonionalusta site before travelling to Germany as we did prior to the French shows in June 2005. We were stopped at the Russian-Finnish border from our side. Prior to that we traveled a lot without encountering any problems - we just said that we were traveling with stones and that was enough. This time (we've noticed that later) our KGB was following us. We do not know yet for whom it was so interesting to catch us, but that is the fact. They said that this is a crime and arrested us. After 2 days they let us free, but now I and one of my friends can't go out of Russia. It seems that it is some government idea to stop mineral business in Russia, I do not know. I can't put a spot on somebody of Russian stone people as a competitor who can be so angry for example personally with me. Nonsense. It is not so much real competition here in Russia. I know 99% of all dealers. The process is not finished yet. They press us very much. Everybody of the mineral, fossil and meteorite people from Russia are very afraid to ship or carry some stony goods abroad. All are waiting for the final outcome of our situation. I know something about dino-eggs from China and the meteorite situation in Australia. Maybe our situation is in line with that. But certainly not that easy. I really do not know what will happen later. But if they really will close the Russian border for stones - that'll be a big problem for mineral business in general, and not only for us Russians. Ok, I think that the details about spending a lot of time in KGB and with lawyers isn't of much interest to you, but just imagine that this is what we are dealing with now and what we are thinking about most of the time. It is actually strange that a small group of people (really not rich) is of interest to the State. Our stones are not gold, not diamonds, not oil or gas, nothing of strategic importance - you know what I mean. That's all for now. All the best, Serge __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Lunar meteorites-- where do they hang out?
Hi Darren, and Listoids, You asked: Are there any official ideas what happens to lunar meteorites between being blasted off the Moon and when they strike Earth? Is it a straight shot (so a low transit time) or do they go into lunar orbit and then later be captured by Earth, or go directly into Earth orbit, or maybe even a seperate solar orbit at the same distance as the Earth/Moon system? Or more than one of the above? Studies on the transition times of various lunar meteorites, obtained by studies of cosmogenic nuclides within these meteorites, show that both alternatives occure. However, they also show that the majority of lunaites are captured by Earth in less than 1Myr after ejection, suggesting that most lunaites (that land on Earth) do actually hang around inside of the Earth-Moon system. Good examples are: - Kalahari 008 and 009 with transition times of less than 1Kyr! - Dhofar 026 with a rather short transition time of just about 3Kyrs - Dhofar 081, and pairings with a transition time of about 5Kyrs - NWA 032/479 with a transition time of about 40Kyrs Some lunaites took longer to arrive on Earth, such as: - DaG 400 with a transition time of about 200Kyrs or - NWA 482 with a transition time of about 300Kyrs Dunno were these have been hanging out. But I'm pretty sure that the following (and some other well-travelled fellows) have entered into a heliocentric orbit, i.e., that they actually left the Earth-Moon system until they were finally captured by the gravity of the Earth: - Calcalong Creek with a transition time of 3Myr or - Dhofar 025 with a sensational transit time of more than 10Myrs. The latter ones were probably ejected from greater depths within the lunar surface by high-speed impacts that resulted in higher launch velocities - enough speed to escape the Earth-Moon system, and to reside in a heliocentric orbit for a few million years. Go figure! Lunatically yours, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fake Dhofar 025 Lunars (sold by 'floridacoaster' on Ebay)
Dear List Members, You may recall the floridacoaster eBay auctions for dirt-cheap Dhofar 025 lunar specimens? If not, here's a link to a copy of one of these auctions: http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eebaywrong/auction/6531307234.pdf Some list members acquired pieces of this alledged lunar material, and a few months ago the question arose if this is actually the real McCoy or some fake material. In the meantime, I have been suplied with representative samples of the 'floridacoaster' stuff by two list members. Both provided me with their respective samples, and with the accompanying paperwork/ certificates/correspondence. The results of my study (just confirmed by Dr. Juergen Otto, a seasoned meteoriticist, and petrologist) show that the samples sold by 'floridacoaster' are terrestrial pyroclastites (volcanic rocks), or to be more specific, pieces of an ignimbrite (a brecciated type of volcanic tuff with clasts of vesicular pumice-stone). Comparisons with pieces of the real Dhofar 025 show just a superficial resemblance that is more or less confined to the color of the samples. A close inspection shows that they are very different, and that they haven't much in common. Most of our members who bought this stuff were certainly fooled because they had no real Dhofar 025 to compare with. The worst part of this whole story is that there is much evidence for the fact that this wasn't an innocent mistake by 'floridacoaster' but a deliberate act of fraud. One of the tuff samples has an artificial fusion crust, obviously created by using a welding torch on the stone. (Interestingly, Dhofar 025 is known for its very long terrestrial residence time, and for the total absence of fusion crust, something that should have been a warning sign for the more educated buyers.) Adding to that, the sample was also accompanied by a forged document (a Certificate of Authenticity for another, totally unrelated lunaite from Dhofar, originally signed in 2003 by Prof. Bischoff, Institut fuer Planetologie, Germany). The fake document provided by 'floridacoaster' was a 1:1 copy (though on a American paper format, and not on the original European DIN A4 format) - with a forged date (dated back to 2000!), and fake phone and Fax numbers that would leed the inquiring buyer nowhere. There are other indications that this has been a delibarate, and systematic fraud, and thanks to 'floridacoaster' we now have more than one dozen fake lunar samples in the hand of collectors, and on the market. A former member used his multiple wins from 'floridacoaster' as giveaways (after he had been warned that this might not be the real thing), and other samples were sold or traded. Please be watchful for these samples. The fake Dho 025 must be taken out of circulation, and the buyers/owners must be informed. If you are one of the buyers, you will certainly try to get your money back from 'floridacoaster', and you might also be interested in advising eBay and the Florida Attorney General's office of this fraud. It will be my pleasure to answer further questions, on- and off-list. Take care, Norbert Classen Vice-President, IMCA, Inc. IMCA #7606 In order to view this article on the IMCA Homepage, just follow the hyperlink: http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/scam_lunar.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Djermaia?
Right now, Peter Marmet isn't able to post directly to the list, and asked me to forward the following message: --- Hello list, recently we acquired a nice 908 g stone meteorite. The meteorite was kept by a French lady who lived in Chad for more than 20 years. Before she died she told her nephew that she saw the meteorite fall sometime in the 60ies. The only meteorite fall from Chad was in 1961. Officially there is only one 1kg stone recovered of Djermaia, but Bob Haag has a 3.7 kg stone according to his catalogue, and Michel Franco has a 2.9 kg stone ( http://www.caillou-noir.com/Djermaia.htm ). Could this be a 4th mass of Djermaia? I know, it's just a nice meteorite as long we do not cut a piece for classification... but who dares to decapitate such a beauty... we don't! Picts can be seen here: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ Comments welcome! Peter Marmet __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Dhofar 025 Real or Phony
Hi Don, Martin, and All, I've seen close-up pictures of fragments of the alledged Dho 025 sold on eBay by floridacoaster, and they actually don't look like the real McCoy but more like a vesicular terrestrial basalt. However, pictures are not too good to judge from, and I would actually be interested in comparing a sample of floridacoaster's alledged lunar with a real piece of Dhofar 025. Your choice - contact me off-list for more information. As Martin said, you can also bring your sample to the Munich show in late October where I can have a close look at it (BTW, the finder of Dhofar 025 will also be there to have a look). Don wrote: A neo magnet has no problem attracting it. Another reason to doubt the authenticity of the material sold by floridacoaster. I tested my samples of Dhofar 025, and the paired Dhofar 301, 304, and 308, and none of them were attracted by a very strong Neodymium magnet, not even slightly. So I would say that the magnetic suspectibility of the floridacoaster samples also suggests that these are not pieces of Dhofar 025, but basaltic samples of terrestrial provenance. Of course, I could be wrong here since regolith breccias often do contain NiFe inclusions of impacting iron meteorites, and micro-meteorites. In this case, the magnetic suspectibility of the sample in question shouldn't be homogenous but biased to such NiFe clasts. However, I doubt that there's much metallic NiFe left in any sample of Dho 025 since Dho 025 is famous for its very long terrestrial residence time of about 250K years (longer than any other lunar meteorite, recovered thus far). Dho 025 is thouroughly weathered, and more terrestrialized than any other lunaite I know of. It would take me by surprise if any metall partical in the breccia would have survived up to this day. Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Don, I bought a crumb and I was more than skeptic too. Beside that it looked to vesicular, the story the seller told can't be true. She stated that her husband acquired a chunk through ebay at a time were the finder sold it exclusively and indeed he never sold fragments or endcuts but only thin slices. My specimen was fairly thick, had no cut faces, thus wasn't broke off from a slice. The main mass of Dho 025, was sold later, can't stem from it. I planned to show it to the finder, Serge Afanasjev from cometshop, who else could judge better and to the lunar master, Norbert Classen, but I have to confess, that my piece got lost in my chaotic strewnfield (Perhaps the cat kicked it behind the piano). I also told Illinois-Arnold, that it might be not a good idea to use his piece to fabricate giveaways, but he didn't care. So I suggest, that you or any other who took a substantial fragment, may send it to the IMCA-Europe-chief Norbert Classen, who also will meet the finder Afanasjev on the end of October at the Munich show. Cheers! Martin - Original Message - From: Don Merchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List. I know we talked about this around 8 months ago. Several collectors purchased a Lunar meteorite named Dhofar 025 from an ebay seller named floridacoaster. There was no COA and I was told by floridacoaster that her husband- (passed away and Dhofar 025 was in his meteorite collection she was selling with help from her son) -bought Dhofar 025 back in February 2002 from a dealer on ebay. These pieces that were sold by floridacoaster were all fragments. Last I heard was Dhofar 025 was never sold in fragments but only in slices. There are some of you out there that purchased Dhofar 025 from floridacoaster. Has any one had it checked out by a lab? Can anyone out there set the record straight. I my self was caught up in buying a fragment thinking what if this is the real thing A neo magnet has no problem attracting it. It also looks very much like the close up pics of Dhofar 025. I would be willing to send my specimen out to a trustworthy expert if no has allready done so. Steve Arnold from Chicago, I know you purchased a piece. What else have you found out? Thanks Don Merchant---emflocater __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: RC's age of the universe???
Hi Sterling, Martin All, Martin H. wrote: The question has risen: I wonder why the RC church would have such a huge collection of items which contradicts their doctrine that the universe is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old... Does anyone have a reference for the assumption that their doctrine actually addresses the age of the universe? I guess that assumption stems from the movie Inherit the Wind with Spencer Tracy, based on the legendary ape trial, and the screenplay by Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee. Major Brady, the proponent of the anti-evolution fraction, gives an exact date of the creation of the universe in this plot; if I recall it correctly it was a Thursday, some 5,700 or so years ago ;-) Certainly not the official doctrine of the RC church, but I know quite a lot of contemporary RC priests, preachers, and officials who are saying essentially the same... Sterling responded (sorry for quoting you out of context, Sterling): That unfortunate business with Galilleo was, well, unfortunate... There are reports that many prelates, including the Pope, were delighted with the Big Bang theory's wide acceptance, for obvious reasons. A created universe? Didn't we always say so? Yeah, and while Galilleo has been reinstated by popular demand (sic!), people such as Giordano Bruno are still burning in hell, at least if you follow the official agenda of the RC church. Now, if we would actually find traces of (former) life in martian meteorites, or on Mars missions, the official agenda would surely change, provided that there will be another paradigm shift, and enough popular demand to convince them. There. So it's no real change of attitude, it's just survival of the fittest, what leads us back to Darwin, and Inherit the Wind... Enough said, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Lodranites in stony-iron ???
Hi Pierre, They (the NIPR) are obviously holding on to an older classification scheme. The lodranites were originally grouped with the stony-irons before their close relationship to the acapulcoites and the PACs were revealed through modern research (such as O-isotopic studies, etc.). The siderophyres do represent a somewhat anachronistic class of meteorites that consisted of just one single member, Steinbach. Today, Steinbach is grouped with the IVA iron meteorites, and it is considered as an anomalous silicated member of this group. Nevertheless, it's tempting to compare Steinbach with the pallasites, and to consider it as a true stony-iron ;-) I hope this helps. Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello to the List, I'm reading a document published by the NIPR (Antarctic meteorites japanese research center) and I'm surprised to look at their classification page. Lodranites and Siderophyres (?) are considered as stony-iron meteorites. Can someone tell me what are Siderophyres and why are the Lodranites in stony-irons (I always thought they were achondrites) ? Best regards, Pierre-Marie PELE www.meteor-center.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Lodranites in stony-iron ??? - Steinbach pictures
Bernd quoted: MASON B. (1962) Meteorites, p. 125: The single siderophyre is the Steinbach meteorite (also known as Breitenbach or Rittersgrün), which has been known since 1724. It consists of a network of nickel-iron which encloses granular aggregates of orhopyroxene and minor tridymite, the nickel-iron and silicate being present in approximately equal. snip Hi Bernd, Pierre, and All, For those of you who prefer something visual, here are some photos of a 4.1g Steinbach slice that resides in my collection since some years now: http://www.timewarp.de/list/Steinbach01.jpg http://www.timewarp.de/list/Steinbach02.jpg http://www.timewarp.de/list/Steinbach03.jpg The last picture shows a collection number painted on one edge of the specimen. Does anyone of you know of similar numbers? Any idea as to the original collection? The number is ST0041, the ST possibly standing for Steinbach? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks. All the best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Hi Adam, Martin, Jeff, and All, First, as for Martin's question - it's not that unusual that two different sized individuals of one and the same fall land that close to each other. Take for example the 8 kilo + main mass of the SaU shergottite strewnfield (SaU 008). Other, much smaller stones (SaU 051, and other stones comprised under the original SaU 008 designation) were recovered from the vicinity of the main mass. I could quote other examples, such as the Dhofar 302/908 strewnfield, where very small individual masses (not fragments) and larger stones were found within the distance of less than 100 meters. This certainly depends on the original impact angle of the fall, and it doesn't sound that unusual to me. As for the CRE and terrestrial ages of Kalahari 008, and 009, you have to read Kuni Nishiizumi's study with utmost care. He isn't saying that the terrestrial age is several hundred of thousand years - he's just confronting us with two possible scenarios that might explain the cosmogenic nuclide values within these rocks. The first scenario proposes a long terrestrial residence time at the find site (that also would be valid for a terrestrial rock subjected to the same conditions!!!), and the second - more probable scenario - proposes a very short transition time, and the implantation of these radionuclides in space. So don't mistake the first scenario for a calculation of a terrestrial age for the Kalahari lunaites. As far as I know, short transition times, i.e. CRE ages, make it more or less impossible to determine a terrestrial age (at least via the usual C14 analysis). A terrestrial age hasn't been determined for Kalahari 008, and 009, and thus there might be no contradiction at all between the W1 classification, and the other given data. Last but not least, I agree with Jeff Grossmann's notion that the find story is odd. Unconfirmed rumors have it that these lunaites were either found in South Africa or in the neighboring Namibia (both countries with strict meteorite laws), and that the find location in Botswana was just made up for obvious reasons. However, these rumors aren't consistent with the fact that the finder obviously isn't interested in selling any of his stuff - it wouldn't make much sense to make up anything in this case... Anyway, the story is strange, and it sounds improbable that a person who's not into meteorites at all recovers a large lunaite, AND - having no idea of what he has there - combs the place for additional fragments. That's really odd. Lunatically yours, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Adam, I don't know strewnfield stats so well, but for the case, that they aren't fragments of the same stone, which were transported later by a mechanism, the heck I dunno which, wouldn't it be highly improbable, that two stones of a fall landed so close to each other, especially as they have such different sizes? ??? Martin - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008,009? Dear List, An update, it looks like even though the two Kalahari lunar meteorites have completely different classifications they are paired. This makes sense since they were found just 50 meters apart. The abstract below proves this since they both share the same CRE and terrestrial ages: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5270.pdf Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed
Dear Walter, dear Listees, There's a major difference between the European and the US banking systems: while you are used to checks and money orders we are used to bank wire transfers. In fact, the last time I used a check or a money order must be more than 10 years ago. All my banking business is done via wire transfers, and in Europe it's usual and very safe to give away your account number. In fact, I also received many payments from the US, and sent many payments to the US via SWIFT wire transfer. Hey, this is MUCH faster and more safe than any check in the world. Not long ago I payed an American dealer via SWIFT wire tranfer, and he was more than amazed that the money had been deposited on his account in less than 24 hours. This is usual in Europe, as I said before, and payments withing Germany, for example, are sent in real time so that you have access to your funds, within one or two days. It's not that I want to convince you to give away your bank information. It's just that I'm trying to explain a fundamental difference in our banking systems. It's hard for us to get a check (in fact, my bank hates to issue cashier checks, and always insists on doing wire transfers), and I guess the same applies if you live in Finland (also part of the European Union). I guess the seller you're dealing with just doesn't understand why you are insisting on a check or a money order when it's much easier, faster, and more safe to transfer the funds via wire transfer ;-)) My 2 Euro-Cents, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Walter Branch Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2005 21:57 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed Hello Everyone, I was wondering if anyone has an opinion with a problem I have with a meteorite dealer. I am returning a slice of Ghubara for a refund. I feel it was not described adequately. The seller, who is in Finland, wants my bank account number to directly deposit refund funds. My policy is to never give out my bank account number. I have asked for a refund in Internation Money Order, US check, or US cash. Alternatively, this seller uses a service in Minnesota called Western Bid, which is where I sent my check when I paid for the slice and I suggested that I receive a reinbursement check from them. I am 99.9% sure that I will not give out my bank account number but I am seeking opinions from list members on this. Thanks very much. Has anyone come across this situation before? Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Ebay Sales Ending with Some Specials
Hi All, Just as a short notice that I have some auctions on eBay (German US eBay) that will be ending today. Have a look at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZivuna A few auctions, such as for rare carbonaceous chondrites, already ended with Buy-it-Now, but there are still some goodies to be had at bargain prices, such as two type 3 chondrite main masses - including one rare H(L)3 classification. There's also one lunar sample up on the auction block, a rare mare basalt (only two non-Antarctic lunaites are actually true mare basalts). This sample of Dhofar 287 is rather special as it's not just my previous collection but it's also featured and pictured in one of my articles for Joel Schiff's METEORITE (May 2003). If you have a close look at the auction you will see that it's a real bargain as I originally paid MUCH more for this sample as my low starting price. And if you think you will get this material cheaper, don't be confused, go ask the finders, and they will tell you that there's nothing left for sale. All the best, Norbert PS: For the auctions on German eBay, shipping costs that are outlined for the European Union will also apply for shipping to the US and Canada. So bid with confidence. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hi Martin, David, and All, Even if it doesn't open in IE, or Mozilla Firefox, that doesn't mean that you can't download it to your harddrive. Just tried it, and it works fine (right click on the link, and chose download file to... or a similar option). Once downloaded to your harddrive it should open without any further problems in Acrobat 6. Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] What was he thinking?
Hi Bob, Martin, and All, First, let me get something straight: I didn't cut DaG 113, although it is featured on my site. Martin is correct, it was found in 1996, and back then each and every desert find was cut, and classified. Hey, the museums paid big bucks for these, and they even paid for the repository specimens of ordinary chondrites. Prices that would seem ridiculous for desert eucrites nowadays were paid for badly weathered ordinary chondrites. The finder of DaG 113, Rainhard Welz, was one of the pioneers of hot desert meteorite hunting, and he's the same person who found the first lunar on the Northern hemisphere, DaG 262 (he also recovered most of the early Acfers, DaGs, and HaHs). These were different times, and without this guy, and some other brave boys there would have been no gold rush in Oman or NWA. My respect goes where respect is due. Kudos to these pioneers, whatever they were thinking when cutting an oriented OC. Athough Lafayette (stone) has been cut, its main mass is still an epitome of an oriented chondrite. I don't want to compare DaG 113 to Lafayette, but then, you won't get to see such a great example of an oriented stone too often. Oriented irons are a different thing as there are many great Tazas and Sikhotes - but oriented stones, especially with a weathering grade of just W1 are pretty rare. You don't have to look at the cut side if it hurts you - DaG 113 displays perfectly with the cut side facing the wall ;-) That being said: the oriented main mass of DaG 113 is up for sale on eBay, right now, and I started the auction with no reserve. If you want to have a look at this, and my other auctions, feel free to visit: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZivuna All the best, Norbert -Martin Altmann wrote:- Hi Bob, as far as I know DaG 113 was found in 1996. At those times meteorites were highly treasured and appreciated. Imagine, some collectors and scientists treated them as they would be pieces from other worlds, out from space, as they would be more rare than gold! I heard, that ordinary chondrites were even classified then! Yes those were the days Grampa Buckleboo. - Original Message - From: Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell me, Am I the only one who gets perturbed everytime somebody cuts a nice oriented meteorite for classification ? I mean, wouldn't any logical person kick theirself in the ass after they find out that its just another ordinary chondrite? I could see if there was some telltale signs that the piece could be a rare meteorite from the exterior, but how can one ruin a nice oriented specimen when it most likely is a OC. There are tons of nasty looking meteorites to cut open to satisfy the curiosity. Why waste the oriented ones? Have a look : http://www.meteoris.de/list/DaG113.htm Bob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: AW: AW: [meteorite-list] Re: 13.5 kg lunar
Hi Doug, Thanks for your most eloquent post. I see your point, but I also take the liberty to disagree, at least for a part of it. In essence, you wrote: There is the little detail of haves and have nots and thousand-dollar a gram speculations. A have not cannot participate in that, lets not beat around the bush. We can make an exception for those with obsessive-compulsive collector behavior if you like, I guess though they would be best off skipping dinner to pay the psychiatrist. But you do need big bucks to be involved I hope you recognize. The old tertium non datur actually is a very strong bias - applied to our situation it would sound like If you want a representative specimen of a lunar meteorite you have to have the money to buy it, or else you're out of the 'game'. There's always at least a third alternative. To get a specimen for free (I gave away more than one good lunar specimen for free, and I also received more than one for free), to trade for a specimen (I did this more than once), or to go out and to find a lunar rock yourself (I actually did that, too, and there were no big bucks involved). It isn't all about money - neither in the positive sense, nor in the negative sense. It's all about passion and intent, if you know what I mean. Please don't give up that ambition and dream to go to the Moon. Norbert, wasn't it Iceman that told Maverick You can be my Wingman anytime! ;-) I didn't say I gave up that dream - I just said it's two steps too far away to follow, and to me that means that it isn't realistic to follow it now. If the chance actually would arise, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to take that chance. Maverick says thanks to Iceman. Wishing you the very best, and the first Mexican or AZ lunaite find, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Re: 13.5 kg lunar
Hi Jeff, Darren, and All, Ceratinly a most interesting find, and great news. I've been aware of this one since some months now, and all I can say that Darren's conclusions are way to the spot. The absence of solar noble gases indicates a VERY short transition time, and from what I've heard the researchers first doubted that it might be a meteorite at all. I'm sure that there will be a lot of most interesting publications coming up, pretty soon, that will answer all these question in great detail. For now, all I can say is that I'm a bit sad that it will virtually be impossible to get a specimen of this whopper, and its smaller anorthositic sister. The finder is obviously intending to keep the entire masses, and to stay anonymous... Maybe there's a good part to that sad news, too, and that is that this whopper probably won't ruin the lunar market - for what it's worth... All the best, Norbert (still lunatic after all those years...) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:14:24 -0400, Jeff Pringle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List - Did anyone notice in the provisional Met Bull 89 that someone found a 13.5 KILO lunar in the Kalahari back in '99? Is that old news? I certainly didn't know that such a large lunar had ever been found. Even more interesting than the size (to me) is that the sample does not contain solar wind implanted rare gases. Does that not mean that it had to spend a very short time in transit and would have to be from a recent impact? And have to be from a bit of a distance below the lunar surface, because any surface rocks would be exposed to cosmic rays? How short a period would the meteorite need to be exposed to space to not build up solar wind gases? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: AW: [meteorite-list] Re: 13.5 kg lunar
MexicoDoug wrote: Hola Norbert, I fail to see why you perceive a silver lining by preventing Lunar specimens to become accessible to the hands of amazed parent enthusiasts and collectors and the wonder of inspiring its wondrous effects with kids alike. What possible reason other than the desire to control or monopolize could you possibly be thinking?? Good evening Doug. I'm surprised by all the things that you read between the lines. Did I somehow offend you with my email? If yes, I beg your pardon, it wasn't intended to be offensive. I've no desire to control nor to monopolize anything. I was just expressing some mixed feelings (yes, you quoted me out of context). Some of us aren't speculators, you know and truly are excluded on the base of price. We are appreciate the possibility of an occasional Zagami incident. We have managed to be smiling all along without getting envious. Are you trying to set up some us and them scenario here? Rich vs poor? True collector vs spoiled investor? If so, you're picking at the wrong guy since I'm no member of the big boy's fraction - in fact, I'm wearing no party's color. I worked very hard for each and every piece that I have in my collection, just to fulfill a dream, and surely not to compromise other collectors. I'm driving a ten year old worn car, I'm writing this mail on a five year old laptop as I'm always saving my hard earned bucks for another meteorite sample - just to follow a dream. So don't tell me: Your post indicates that if you decided, you would like material available, but only for those who happen to have a huge purse... I never said that, and you know that I never did. Reading between the lines is a strange thing, Doug. It's a bit like gazing into a mirror, especially when you don't know who's or what's on the other side. You don't know me, Doug, and thus all what you seem to be reading between the lines, IMHO, is the projection of your own bias. And within 20 years after, much fresher Lunar specimens at the price of gold will be commonplace...for those of us still around. In the mean time, how nice that this finder seems to be happy to share the meteorite with scientists! hat is the best start... To keep this on topic, I agree with the latter statement, but I tend to disagree with the first. Meteoritics is always science first, but I really doubt that we will have enough kerosene left in about 20 years to warrant cheap private expeditions to the Moon, and back. Again, don't get me wrong: I actually have mixed feelings about that, too, and I really would enjoy a trip to the Moon, and to hunt for rocks, and meteorites up there when I'm 65. It's a nice dream, but two steps too far away to follow. Best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ebay Sales AD: Special Lunar Auction Ending
Hi All, I'm not doing this often, but I also would like to point you to a rather special auction that will be ending in less than 24 hours. I'm auctioning off the last substantial slice of the lunar meteorite Dhofar 908 that I will sell from my personal stock, a 2.21g sample that is priced to sell. Have a look at: http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/dhofar_locations.htm Or do a search on Ebay for my seller's name ivuna. Even if you don't want to bid you might want to take a look. This slice is rather special because it contains a huge anorthositic clast with dimensions of about 10x12mm - one of the largest lithic clasts ever found in this lunar meteorite. It also exhibits a rare shock vein running from the top of the clast down to the lower right, making it an exceptional sample, available at a bargain price (no bids yet, though). If it doesn't sell this time, I will reserve it for a future trade, and that's it. Hmm, maybe some people think that all material coming out of Oman is or was illegally exported, and that it's therefore sold cheap? Now, don't believe all this blogger's crap. As a novelty, and only for this special auction, I will include a copy of our official export permit for the winning bidder. Yeap, it's from the Ministry of Commerce and Industry, Sultanate of Oman, and it has been signed by the Director of the General's Office of this Ministry in Muscat. It's mostly in Arabic language, and it was issued in the name of one of my fieldpartners. Choke on this, bloggers, and to all others: bid with confidence ;-) All the best, Norbert IMCA #7606 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sales AD: Offers Welcome on Oriented Specimens, etc.
Hi All, The other day Bob Evan's wrote: Wish I had this one ! http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/meteorwrongs/fusioncrust.ht m Now, I certainly can't offer anything as fresh and impeccable as Karakol, a real epitome of an oriented meteorite. However, at least the first sample I'd like to show you has some great fiery flight markings, similar to those on the famous Karakol chondrite. It's the main mass of Dar al Gani 113, a rather fresh desert find from Libya. Have a look: http://www.meteoris.de/list/DaG113.htm If you like it - I'm entertaining reasonable offers. Since I'm focussing more and more on achondrites, I'm trying to thin out my chondrite collection a bit, and thus I'm willing to part with this, and other classy specimens. The same counts for the main mass of HaH 214, a real whopper of just below 1.5 kilos with a very nice apex (Brustseite): http://www.meteoris.de/list/HaH214.htm Last but not least, I also have a neat 2g plus lunar slice of Dhofar 908 left that's looking for a new home - have a look: http://www.meteoris.de/list/Dho908.htm I reserve the right to reject any given offer, but you can be assured that I will consider any reasonable offer on a first come, first served basis. If these specimens don't sell this way they will certainly end up at eBay next weekend. Anyway - I hope you enjoyed the pictures ;-) All the best, Norbert Classen __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Ad-Announcing a New German Iron Meteorite!
Hi John Dawn, Unfortunately, Matt might be right with his bombshell comment. Being from Germany, I and my partners received several iron wrongs that revealed a peculiar (often martensitic) etch pattern. I always felt I finally had the real thing, but then, after an analysis in the lab, all (so far) five samples turned out to be terrestrial, with a Ni-content of below 0,3%. Alpha iron (usually with a martensitic structure) often reveals an etch pattern, and that doesn't seem to mean too much. Hover, I hope that you really have the real thing here - so don't get me wrong. I just want to share my own experience with German irons. My best wrong is a mass of several tons (!), looking very much like Mundrabilla II. Man, that would have been the find of my life, but in the end, and after three independent test in three different labs I had to accept that it turned out to be another (big) bummer... A nickel test would be the right thing to do, and you won't need that much to have it performed in a qualified lab. Hope it will test positive! All the best, Norbert IMCA #7606 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello everyone! We are extremely pleased to announce a New German Iron meteorite! This is only the 12th iron meteorite to ever be found in Germany and it is a spectacular, sculpted specimen. We are leaving it in an 'as found' condition for now with the exception of windowing a small area and etching it. Surprisingly, it has a brilliant micro-etch pattern somewhat reminescent to our New NWA 2428! We are accepting offers and you can check out this unique German iron on our website. Cheers -John Dawn Arizona Skies Meteorites http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] NASA Study Suggest Giant Space Clouds Iced Earth
NASA STUDY SUGGESTS GIANT SPACE CLOUDS ICED EARTH Eons ago, giant clouds in space may have led to global extinctions, according to two recent technical papers supported by NASA's Astrobiology Institute. Interesting article - thanks Ron. For all of you who also found it a good read, have a look at this article: http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1372.html And for those of you who aren't interested in interstellar dust clouds, this article also contains some intriguing maps showing our galactic neighborhood, including clouds, bubbles, stars, and so much more. Enjoy, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] looking for a piece of PIGICK
Hi Steve, and List, Just to avoid any confusion - actually, I'm still living in Germany, and I don't intend to move to Australia that soon. Guess they wouldn't allow me to own a piece of Calcalong Creek down there ... On the other hand I guess the weather is much better on the southern half ... Best regards from freezy Gerrmany Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello and good evening list.I emailed jeff kuyken the other day looking for a piece of PIGICK.The meteorite with a funny name.He said, that due to export laws they cannot send any.Why then are we able to buy items from norbert classen,jeff kuyken, recieve items from another austrailian family and nothing is said.Well than I guess this goes out to anybody outside of aulstralia.I am looking for a 5 to 10 gram piece of PIGICK meteorite.I'll pay handsomely for a piece.I know the TKW is only 693 grams.Please would someone email me off-list about this. thanks, steve arnold, chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AW: AD: Martin's Moon Orgy
Martin wrote: and for the specialists, the number freaks amond the lunatics, the probably last substantial specimen of the small-tkw Dho310. Had only 10.8g. I wouldn't sell my sample at any price since this is one of the more well researched lunaites from Oman, exhibiting some rather special features such as high-pressure minerals (spinel pyroxenites) suggesting that at least parts of this lunaite formed deep inside the lunar crust (20kms!!!). Have a look at some more recent abstracts, and publications (you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view these pdf-files): http://www.geokhi.ru/~meteorit/publication/demidova-ms2003-e.pdf http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1063.pdf Since your Dhofar 908 specimens are probably paired to Dhofar 310, these are great deals, as well ;-)) Last but not least,you wrote: What else do I have? Dho 908, the incredible colourful Moon, always a beauty, all sizes, a thin slice of the honestly spoken most boring looking lunaite on Earth Dho 026 Dhofar 026 might look boring to you, and other collectors, but recent studies show it to be more interesting than previously thought. First, it's no impact-melt, regolith, or fragmental breccia, like most other lunaites, but an ultra-rare granulitic breccia. Second, studies by Kuni Nishiizumi have shown it to be one of the most recent lunar falls in our collections, with a terrestrial residence age of less than a few thousand years. Thus, Dho 026, and it's respective pairings are heavily underpriced, if you want my opinion. Don't judge 'em solely by their look ;-) Lunatic regards, Norbert PS: Here's Martin's eBay ID, just in case that you deleted his first message: pardelmops __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
