Re: Firmware
On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 05:12:49PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 11:44:41PM -0400, openbsd_fr...@mail2tor.com wrote: > > Is fw_update the way to go to download firmware files for my intel > > wireless card? > > Yes. > Run `man fw_update` in your terminal. > > All free aka open-source firmware is included in the OS as far as I know (not > sure if it is in a separate fileset or what), and the non-free aka malware aka > CIA NSA, is AUTOMATICALLY installed on your computer by fw_update but it runs > only on installs, upgrades, and 1st boots after those, so if you got a new toy > you should run the command manually. Also check out these links: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ in general, but more specifically this time https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html
Re: Firmware
On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 11:44:41PM -0400, openbsd_fr...@mail2tor.com wrote: > Is fw_update the way to go to download firmware files for my intel > wireless card? Yes. Run `man fw_update` in your terminal. All free aka open-source firmware is included in the OS as far as I know (not sure if it is in a separate fileset or what), and the non-free aka malware aka CIA NSA, is AUTOMATICALLY installed on your computer by fw_update but it runs only on installs, upgrades, and 1st boots after those, so if you got a new toy you should run the command manually.
Re: Alternative mailing lists
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 07:58:07AM +0200, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 05:03:25PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > Hello, OpenBSD friends! > > Is there an alternative mailing list, or we can To and CC a bunch of people > > at > > once, I believe. > > The problem is that I have been censored plenty of times on @misc, @bugs and > > probably also @tech, and although I despise that, it's someone else's > > servers > > so what can I really do about it and should I even, right? :) > > "I have been censored plenty of times" is a very serious accusation, and one > that > should not be made lightly. I know, I have known censorship for many many many years, and I know what freedom of speech is. I know the consequences of both, and I give myself a degree when it comes to this. Do not misunderstand me, I know that OpenBSD has specifically said in [1] that they will probably silently drop off-topic messages and subjects. But a lot of my messages, and even whole subjects have been silently dropped aka censored. For example I have posted a few times about my worries of C being replaced with something as obnoxious as Rust and Go, to @ports and even @misc. I have also given many of my reasons to the worries and have asked for other people's input. > Were messages of yours removed or suppressed? Answered exactly above this. > Keep in mind that having your messages ignored on mailing lists is just a > normal > part of daily life. Perhaps your issue was not interesting to others or > simply > poorly presented, or perhaps one that is more than adequately covered in the > FAQ. Not only do I have that in mind, but I have on many occasions specifically said myself that people who do not want to hear from me should ignore me, or even use functions if their e-mail client(s) have, to not even see my threads and/or even all of my messages. If it was poorly presented, let me tell you that I am not the only one or the 1st one to do that. In my opinion, OpenBSD has lied to us, primarily that bad manual pages are considered as bugs. > But sure, if you feel your needs would be better served by starting a mailing > list > or other service of your own, there is nobody stopping you from doing just > that. But it will do about exactly 0 of anything, if no one knows that it exists, hence I have started this thread. > I suspect that the effect of the message I am making the utterly poor choice > of > following up on will be that people who would likely be able to provide > valuable > input on any OpenBSD relevant issue you might raise will choose to filter away > messages from "Anon Loli" so they will not waste any time reading those > pieces of text. Again, I feel like that should be the viewer/reader's choice, since it is not spam. Anything else is exactly that - filtering and manipulating and malforming someone's words or even actions. Which of course they have all rights reserved to, but it's a poopy move since they have not warned people about that. I would have probably not even come join the OpenBSD mailing lists would I know that someone would choose what I get to say and what I do not... I would immediately ask if there's an alternative mailing list or something similar like group e-mailing. [1] https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html > -- > Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team > https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ https://www.nuug.no/ > "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" > delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds. -- Anonymous, one of world's highly advanced and thorough minds, philosopher, computer master, OPSEC master, master of learning and perfection, master of critical thinking, etc. currently mastering:psychology, remanipulation or demanipulation aka promoting critical thinking, moral, consequences aka butterfly/domino effect, human body, as many of top important skillsets as possible These are just some of my qualifications from the top of my head, partially because I did not yet master memonics and did not discover the full potential of my brain efficiency which is needed if I want to create a better life for myself and others, one of projects for that would be my own operating system and hardware with it, which in theory should be greatly inspired and improved from all of existing operating systems and especially the derivatives of the old and insufficient Unix, some of them are: GNU, Linux, *BSD, QubesOS, Plan9, TempleOS. I will not initiate it's development until I have perfected it "on paper". In other words, do not make the mistake that you are qualified enough to understand my messages and then deduce wether or not you want them on your mailing lists. This is one of reasons that censorship should not exits or even be accepted by other people who might not have something unusual to say. Another of reason is possible manipulation.
Alternative mailing lists
Hello, OpenBSD friends! Is there an alternative mailing list, or we can To and CC a bunch of people at once, I believe. The problem is that I have been censored plenty of times on @misc, @bugs and probably also @tech, and although I despise that, it's someone else's servers so what can I really do about it and should I even, right? :) I don't have to talk about everything I want on OpenBSD official mailing lists (even if it's a serious and an OpenBSD topic), and neither do you, all I'm asking here that those who are interested in hearing what I, the censored friend of yours has to say, can. If you at all value not just the right, but the mere possibility to say something to someone who wants to hear, allow this e-mail to go trough, pretty please. And if at all you found me in the least bit interesting, over all of my e-mails to the formentioned lists, you should send me an e-mail and you will hear from me. And would this e-mail pass trough, then I applaud you for taking up with this empty e-mail.
Re: avoid single-user mode boot
On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 07:11:40AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 09:04:17AM +0100, 04-psyche.tot...@icloud.com wrote: > > Alternatively, is there a way to have ssh access in single user mode? > > The normal way to handle this and other boot-related problems is with a serial > connection from another machine that is still accessible via the network. > > Depending on your budget, what this system is being used for, and the > connectivity that is available at the remote location, there are various ways > of making that happen. > Yeah I got the same reply when asking a bunch of people how someone could update a machine that's FDE, or even sysupgrade... the answer is 2 machines via a serial connection heh.. I didn't try this yet, but sounds like hella fun!
Re: Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 11:23:08PM -0400, José Maldonado wrote: > > > > I don't really deserve OpenBSD, I get that, but there is a reason as to why > > Theo De Raadt and other folks are still active on mailing lists and respond > > to > > topics like these, everything else should click and make sense now, I don't > > know how much clearer I can get, low critical thinking is required to > > understand > > what I wrote right now, and the only thing I can be wrong about here is that > > OpenBSD folks don't need new people (in general) who might even have greater > > potential than some of existing folks, to work on OpenBSD and related > > projects > > and I'd love to know why if that's the case. > > > > If that's not the case (I hope it's not), then I've already started my > > payback, > > and hope to somewhat give back to the OpenBSD > > > > Personally, I don't give a shit about anything you've said. Excellent, then what I said doesn't apply to you, it applies to people who care about mutual contributions and contribution-investments. > RTFM and stop crying on the list. I read your incomplete buggy and discriminating (against skill levels) manuals, if you want mutual contributions and contribution-investment-returns - which you don't so just stop replying because it doesn't concern you after that point. > ...That you are autistic is not, at least on my part, > something that matters to me. If you're looking for help, at least be friendly > and stop pointing fingers at everyone else to try to > "fit into your world and your vision of it." You think I'm here to just get help and run away? I thought for a OpenBSD contributor(or whatever you are) that you'd be smarter than that, I literally explained your how shit works in real life, what is here to not understand? You either agree with me and literally admit that butterfly effect is real and very strong and you help me (and all which that entails), or you don't and you don't respond, it's very simple > Don´t be a troll. If you cared enough to read and think about what I wrote (talking about the 1st reply line you wrote here), then you'd realize that you're the troll, not me, because I care about this conversation, you literally admitted you don't, so please kindly stop replying, there might be people who do care, you just aren't one of those and that's (not) okay, please stop wasting everyone's time if you aren't invested in the conversation (like literally closing your ears and yelling, that's you right now)
Re: Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 10:34:23PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > Anon Loli writes: > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 07:15:28PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > > > Anon Loli writes: > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:04:17PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > > > > > I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. > > > > > > > > > > Anon Loli writes: > > > > > > Hello list, after I compiled ... > > > > > > > > > > Once you have crossed this Rubicon you are a developer and On Your > > > > > Own. > > > > > > > > That's mean! > > > > > > But it is the truth. Do I not correctly recall you writing that you > > > prefer to hear the truth, however blunt? I believe asshole was the > > > term you used. Is it a one-way phenomenon? > > > > I forgot that my mood can't be transfered > > automatically trough text, and that my joke won't be understood > > Funny, that. > > > > If you want to code get coding. If you want a working system that's > > > built by others others then put the compiler down and use what they > > > have produced. > > > > > > There is no middle ground. You break it, you get to keep both halves. > > > > When undoing 1 screw, I didn't expect the whole wheel to fall off (you can > > still drive with 3 wheels, but like not for long) > > You still get to keep all the parts. If you play with power tools > you can expect to get hurt. This is why people go insane and do terrorist attacks, because more and more people don't really give a shit what they're selling and poor people don't have a choice.. I know it's bad to compare this to OpenBSD, because it's for free, but we also don't have a good enough alternative yet (I'm semi-serious here, if it wasn't obvious) > > > > I didn't change the source code related to Xenocara, I was just curious > > > > if > > > > Xenocara compiles with different Makefile or something.. it'd be nice > > > > if at > > > > least someone told me if it affects the mouse profile/driver somehow. > > > > > > Incorrect. If you had followed the build instructions as they are > > > written with the xenocara sources unchanged then xenocara would > > > have compiled. It didn't therefore you changed something. > > > > What do you mean it didn't compile? What did I say which would indicate > > that I > > got a error message while compiling Xenocara? > > I'm sorry I rushed. I meant to say that xenocara would have been > compiled in the same way. If you follow the instructions correctly > against a pristine source repository you will get the same binary > artefacts that upstream produce and so of course they will do the > same thing in the same way. > > I mixed up "broken" with "didn't build". Yeah, that's what I expected too, but it doesn't seem to be compiling-related perhaps... Also by UEFI I think that I meant BIOS related > > > > I have a lot of experience when it comes to helping each other and "do > > > > to > > > > others as you want done to yourself"(or something like that phrase), > > > > which is > > > > > > When you are thrown in the deep end of a pool, you will learn to > > > swim or you will sink. Conveniently in this metaphor you don't also > > > drown, so consider it done unto you. You're welcome. > > > > > > Coincidentally you've (mis-)quoted from the book of Matthew. Chapter 7. > > > > Most people will sink if such continues > > That is up to them. Each of us gets to choose. > > > > > > Use the source, Luke. > > > > > > > > But source big big big > > > > > > Then you have a lot of reading to do. > > > > > > The OpenBSD developers have also put a lot of work into their > > > exceptionally fine manuals. I suggest you read those too. > > > > Exceptionally fine manuals? Are you joking? > > *whoosh* > > RTFM. And S. I can see that you're joking about this, that says a lot > > You obviously don't know what a manual written by a perfectionist autist > > look > > like - literally perfection > > You cannot use autism as an excuse for anything in a group of engineers. Excuse? You mean I can't excuse my perfection? I write better shit than OpenBSD does, but not really on same topic, but lets say that when
Re: Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 07:15:28PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > Anon Loli writes: > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:04:17PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > > > I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. > > > > > > Anon Loli writes: > > > > Hello list, after I compiled ... > > > > > > Once you have crossed this Rubicon you are a developer and On Your Own. > > > > That's mean! > > But it is the truth. Do I not correctly recall you writing that you > prefer to hear the truth, however blunt? I believe asshole was the > term you used. Is it a one-way phenomenon? Your recall returns exit code 0.. I forgot that my mood can't be transfered automatically trough text, and that my joke won't be understood, because of course, this isn't real life, sorry.. > If you want to code get coding. If you want a working system that's > built by others others then put the compiler down and use what they > have produced. > > There is no middle ground. You break it, you get to keep both halves. When undoing 1 screw, I didn't expect the whole wheel to fall off (you can still drive with 3 wheels, but like not for long) > > I didn't change the source code related to Xenocara, I was just curious if > > Xenocara compiles with different Makefile or something.. it'd be nice if at > > least someone told me if it affects the mouse profile/driver somehow. > > Incorrect. If you had followed the build instructions as they are > written with the xenocara sources unchanged then xenocara would > have compiled. It didn't therefore you changed something. What do you mean it didn't compile? What did I say which would indicate that I got a error message while compiling Xenocara? > > I have a lot of experience when it comes to helping each other and "do to > > others as you want done to yourself"(or something like that phrase), which > > is > > When you are thrown in the deep end of a pool, you will learn to > swim or you will sink. Conveniently in this metaphor you don't also > drown, so consider it done unto you. You're welcome. > > Coincidentally you've (mis-)quoted from the book of Matthew. Chapter 7. Most people will sink if such continues, but if someone were to swim out, and for that spot to be known as a location where people get thrown to like learn swimming or something, someone could throw in a few life jackets or have someone be on ready, this example is so stupid, but still somewhat applicable, because either I don't understand you or you don't understand me, and of course now you'll say something like "you're the one who doesn't understand me", but what is there to understand, you seemingly just wanted to say that steel is forged with fire, without a care for that not everyone is steel, some people are still iron ;) > > > Use the source, Luke. > > > > But source big big big > > Then you have a lot of reading to do. > > The OpenBSD developers have also put a lot of work into their > exceptionally fine manuals. I suggest you read those too. Exceptionally fine manuals? Are you joking? You obviously don't know what a manual written by a perfectionist autist look like - literally perfection - and OpenBSD manuals are lacking in some places, and if my recall is correct, then I've already complained about manual pages, and not much has been done about it, as far as I know. Not sure if this is it, but it might have something to do with that SOME manual pages are for developers that are approximately the same skill-level as the author of them, so this is represents a huge problem, which is unless someone is extremely motivated, the skill-gap will never be bridged, people will not learn, OpenBSD will not gain more passionate people, and I suspect that everyone using OpenBSD is at a loss per-say Excellent example: So if say you buy a car, and you say have to connect it together, and the provided manual requires you to say have finished some related school or something like that, then most people are unlikely to ever fully build that car and since they won't ride in it, other people also won't get to see that type/model of car in the streets and thus won't buy one for themselves. Very similar thing happens with most things in our live, same goes for OpenBSD Now you might say something like: "So then help write better manual pages", but there are still parts of OpenBSD (manual pages) which I don't understand, partially because a significant amount of it expects you to know something which isn't mentioned directly (for example it doesn't say "you're expected to know/have read this this and this). > Appeals of "but it is le hard&quo
Re: Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
(the mouse acted weird: the original profile is back, read the part with CAP letters for more info) On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:04:17PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. > > Anon Loli writes: > > Hello list, after I compiled ... > > Once you have crossed this Rubicon you are a developer and On Your Own. That's mean! I didn't change the source code related to Xenocara, I was just curious if Xenocara compiles with different Makefile or something.. it'd be nice if at least someone told me if it affects the mouse profile/driver somehow. I have a lot of experience when it comes to helping each other and "do to others as you want done to yourself"(or something like that phrase), which is in some way like anarcho-socialism or anarcho-communism or whatthefuckever, the point being that until it's something important as audio not working (I'm a tester contributor and happy I did that), who's going to spend 3 days finding the fucking reason as to why this happened? OpenBSD already does enough stuff that's unintuitive and to those people very time consuming (it took me like 1 week to compile everything the way I wanted it to, partially because of it taking a long time to compile, but also because of the object file thing which I made a thread about), so it's to be expected that even little things can sometimes take a long time... ...due to developers making stuff for developers on THEIR LEVEL, which futhermore disincentivizes new tinkerers or even potential developers/testers from contributing, which in turn damages the initial developers themselves because the tinkerers/potential developers might do something cool and beautiful one day from which they could benefit as well. It's simple logic, really. I try to do good (if not better than that) things to others because it affects me directly or indirectly, it's literally the buttefly effect which almost noone understands because they don't want to understand things, it's too hard, and sometimes obviously logical. > Not that OpenBSD was ever going to hold anyone's hand. ...continuing from above... you don't have to, maybe someone else will, and maybe I help someone else related to OpenBSD (I did lots of times), and then maybe that someone else helps you, etc, etc. > Use the source, Luke. But source big big big, is there like a default OpenBSD Makefile I can compare with the one in xenocara src or something like that? I tried reading some Xenocara files... even READMEs are dizzying with it's enormous sizes - WHILE TYPING THIS E-MAIL THE ORIGINAL MOUSE PROFILE IS FUCKING BACK!!! WHAT??!!!? I don't know how or why, but it's fucking BACK! Possible cause: computer has been completely plugged out of power recently, but I tried plugging out this mouse and it didn't change... could it be UEFI related or something like that? The funny thing is that the problem with simultaneously pressing primary+secondary buttons has also been resolved... weird as fuck! I hope that this bug or whatever has happened, does not repeat. Or fuck - maybe it would be good if it repeated in case I can somehow help, just like how I struggled with the OpenBSD audio bug for years until I found a patch and tested it successfully > > Does this belong in @tech? > > No. > > Matthew > What about now? xD
Re: Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 01:00:46PM -0400, Benjamin Raskin wrote: > > I compiled everything > . What's your rationale? Why compile everything from scratch in the first > place? 1st of all it's cool as fuck! 2nd of all I was a contributing tester for the AMD 17 HD audio bug (something like that) and so I had to compile user base/kernel and apply the patch (which could have maybe been done via syspatch? IDK), so I thought might as well complete the rest of the release(8) and compile the rest. > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 12:49 PM Anon Loli wrote: > > > > Hello list, after I compiled Xenocara on my computer (I compiled > > everything) as > > commanded by release(8) sacred paper, my "gaming mouse" changed it's > > behavior > > by A LOT. > > > > 1st change that I noticed is that the mouse profile which has been set by my > > using original software has seemingly been wiped: the buttons that served > > for > > stepping the DPI of the mouse are now "^V and ^C" according to xprop(1) > > stdout. > > > > The 2nd change is that for one fuction I require the use of primary and > > secondary clicks simultaneously or as close as possible to that, which is > > now > > impossibly because it requires a big delay which is a problem, and the > > problem > > wasn't present before I compiled Xenocara, I'd be skeptical of this if not > > for > > the mouse profile as a whole ... well... disappearing on me and changing to > > whatever the fuck this "profile" is right now > > > > Maybe Xenocara has some default setting which it embeds into the mices > > during > > compilation? > > If so, should I have unplugged the mice during Xeno compilation? > > > > What do you think what is causing this? > > Is there a fix? > > Do I have to configure my mouse using Xorg nightmare configuration or > > something? > > > > I'm not 100% sure if it's Xenocara's fault, as I also compiled well > > everything > > else, the base system and the kernel. > > > > It possible, I'd like to not disclose information about this mouse, for my > > safety. > > > > Does this belong in @tech? > > >
Mouse profile and behavior changed to wtf after Xenocara compiling
Hello list, after I compiled Xenocara on my computer (I compiled everything) as commanded by release(8) sacred paper, my "gaming mouse" changed it's behavior by A LOT. 1st change that I noticed is that the mouse profile which has been set by my using original software has seemingly been wiped: the buttons that served for stepping the DPI of the mouse are now "^V and ^C" according to xprop(1) stdout. The 2nd change is that for one fuction I require the use of primary and secondary clicks simultaneously or as close as possible to that, which is now impossibly because it requires a big delay which is a problem, and the problem wasn't present before I compiled Xenocara, I'd be skeptical of this if not for the mouse profile as a whole ... well... disappearing on me and changing to whatever the fuck this "profile" is right now Maybe Xenocara has some default setting which it embeds into the mices during compilation? If so, should I have unplugged the mice during Xeno compilation? What do you think what is causing this? Is there a fix? Do I have to configure my mouse using Xorg nightmare configuration or something? I'm not 100% sure if it's Xenocara's fault, as I also compiled well everything else, the base system and the kernel. It possible, I'd like to not disclose information about this mouse, for my safety. Does this belong in @tech?
(Fork) "IP rights" bullshit, philosophy & OpenBSD compatibility with this
(This thread is a fork of "Re: [solved]: vi: How to display German umlauts?") On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 01:46:55PM +0200, Michael Hekeler wrote: > Dear Anon Loli: > > > (...) > > software should be free, and non-personal information should be free, > > too, without any IP or a requirement for a file "LICENSE".. those are > > just my 2 cents.. > > if you don't say something about using or redisributing your software or > code then nobody knows and noone can be sure if its allowed to do this > or that. > Just to make it clear for everyone you can give a statement about these > topics. > A good place for this statement is to include a file and call it > LICENSE. Yeah, a statement indeed, but I'm not sure how I feel about copyright itself like I don't feel that taking someone's code and not giving them credit for it is stealing or something like that.. no one can own code, they can just come up with a cool combination of code, but that shouldn't mean that everyone HAS TO credit them (if not more) or else they get removed from an platform or sued. For example a couple of years ago I predicted that an A.I. will be invented that comes up with combinations of code, and checks for copyright (how does it do that? IDK) and if it doesn't exists, then it licenses it for a few dollars, and does this until everyone is legally forced to pay to have any functionality (this is as far as I understand it would play out). Like a year ago when A.I. became popular, someone made a bot that helps programmers with code and stuff.. someone else made an A.I. that can write code based on the input (is not ChatGPT or MS' A.I. capable of doing this?) Even if such mass-licensing is say forbidden, I still don't feel like someone should get credit if their code is out there, let alone asked if their code can be used or not.. this is how I feel because I would feel the same if someone did this to me. If you don't want your code out there, then don't publish it.. it's better than this evil capitalistic and selfish "code sharing", which is more bullshit+licensing evil than it is good, in my opinion. When I'm selfish like that, for example with my current projects, I just don't publish the source code, because I feel like someone else would work on the code instea dof me... and I want to be the one fulfilling ... LIVING my wishes :) > > (...), would you use a open source peace of software that in the README > > says "you can use it for whatever you want with no strings attached, > > and that's it > > In the end it is your decision. Whether you want to hide the text > down in the README or something else. > If you are the creator, it's your work and your rules apply. Yeah, but at the same time I'm not sure I want to create something that only 3 people in the world will use XD I wonder how OpenBSD stands with using code that has a weak disclaimer like "You're free to use this for whatever you want with 0 conditions because I'm not evil or annoying" in it's README, and for code that I "borrowed"(xD) from someone else and/or modified, I could maybe, just maybe put a disclaimer or something but even that is a big pain in my cunny... Because like ideally I want to be like suckless.org guys... BUT I also like OpenBSD and wouldn't mind one day for OpenBSD to perhaps use some code for something, even if it's just 1 line > > I'm not sure about the license thought... as I despise licenses and even > > having > > a copyleft license like CC is getting on my nerves, ... > > creative commons (CC) recommend against using their licenses > for software. > Very similar to most Creative Commons licenses are Permissive software > licenses (e.g. Apache 2.0 License or MIT License) > But here again: if it is your work then you decide the ways share your work. I meant CC0 specifically Intellectual Property is such a evil that it affects humanity as a whole Wasn't like 3D printing a huge patent for like 70 decades? I think that you get the drift :)
Re: [solved]: vi: How to display German umlauts?
On Tue, Jul 09, 2024 at 08:20:53PM +0200, Страхиња Радић wrote: > Дана 24/07/09 04:02PM, Anon Loli написа: > > That's why I use vi, and am working on my own text editor.. I don't know if > > it'll ever be good, but I'm aiming for Vi-like simplicity, suckless code > > base > > and Vim-like features (only most useful ones, the rest would be in a > > patch-form, like suckless.org has) > > Also when I said "am working", it's more like "was working and will work on > > it > > again", but I have a problem right now which has paused my programming > > life... > > I'm working on it > > If you're interested, perhaps one day you'll want to test it out.. > > All that's missing is the URL to the source code of that wonderful > editor... if it exists at all. > It's currently offline, off the internet, as far as I know, it was last hosted on my eepsite, but circumstances mandated that I had to take down the epsite because the site was outdated and insecure due to the circumstances It's not usable and probably won't be as beautiful as Neatvi or Arab-friendly I'm hesitant to upload it anywhere before I setup my site.. I want to have SOME reputaiton or something, and for that I need my website back online When I put it back online, I'm thinking about making it something similar to cGit, but without git, instead my own version control system and stuff... Ideally I'd want my site written in C, and since it would be minimalistic, that should be easy TLS/SSL is replaced/handled by I2P so one less thing to worry about
Re: [solved]: vi: How to display German umlauts?
On Tue, Jul 09, 2024 at 06:36:46PM +0200, prx wrote: > > > Le 9 juillet 2024 18:02:31 GMT+02:00, Anon Loli a > écrit : > >On Tue, Jul 09, 2024 at 12:38:02PM +0200, rfab...@mhsmail.ch wrote: > >> Dear Страхиња Радић, > >> dear Jan, > >> dear Christian > >> > >> Thanks a lot for your prompt and helpful answers! > >> > >> --- > >> Am 2024-07-08 20:35, schrieb Страхиња Радић: > >> > vi lacks a lot of built-in quality of life features that Vim has. > >> > >> Yes, I know Vim from Arch Linux. But for OpenBSD, I'd like to try to > >> stick to the base install as close as possible. > >> > >> --- > >> Am 2024-07-08 21:05, schrieb Jan Stary: > >> > On Jul 08 18:55:11, rfab...@mhsmail.ch wrote: > >> > > As I'd rather not switch to vim, I'd be very grateful for any tips > >> > > concerning the display of umlauts in vi. > >> > > >> > vi can't do it. > >> > >> Thanks for confirming, Jan! > >> > >> --- > >> Am 2024-07-08 22:07, schrieb Christian Weisgerber: > >> > There's a port and package of nvi-2.2.1, which is a close relative > >> > of the base system nvi that has been extended with wide character > >> > support. > >> > >> I have just installed nvi, and the umlauts are displayed correctly. > >> Many thanks for this tip! > >> > >> --- > >> I'm very grateful for the help misc@openbsd.org offers. A big thank > >> you to all the list contributors - and of course to all the contributors > >> and committers of OpenBSD itself. My family and I are very happy > >> to be able to use it for our daily home office work. > >> > >> Best regards > >> > >> Rolf > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >Once upon a time I decided to take a look at Vim source code > >I did a wc -l, and it gave me like 70 LOC of *.c and *.h files like what > >the fuck? > >Do you know how much 700k of SLOC is? > >Terry Davis made a reasonably good OS in just 100k of SLOC! > >Very easy to hide malicious stuff like the backdoor that was in xz! > > > >That's why I use vi, and am working on my own text editor.. I don't know if > >it'll ever be good, but I'm aiming for Vi-like simplicity, suckless code base > >and Vim-like features (only most useful ones, the rest would be in a > >patch-form, like suckless.org has) > >Also when I said "am working", it's more like "was working and will work on > >it > >again", but I have a problem right now which has paused my programming > >life... > >I'm working on it > >If you're interested, perhaps one day you'll want to test it out.. > > > >I'm not sure about the license thought... as I despise licenses and even > >having > >a copyleft license like CC is getting on my nerves, software should be free, > >and non-personal information should be free, too, without any IP or a > >requirement for a file "LICENSE".. those are just my 2 cents.. > >It's a little more complicated than that, let's just say that I don't want > >being required to specify a LICENSE file... I'm just curious about the > >consequences, would you use a open source peace of software that in the > >README > >says "you can use it for whatever you want with no strings attached, and > >that's > >about it."? > > > >I'm probably rambling needlessly again, that's why none care about what I say > > > > Maybe look at neatvi: > => https://github.com/aligrudi/neatvi > > Even if I still prefer nvi and its soft wrapping. > > Oh, wow! That looks hella impressive! My text editor which is ALMOST functional (you can view and go up/down, but not edit files yet, text is in buffer), and is like 600 SLOC, where Neatvi is 8000 SLOC... But my editor doesn't have proper UTF-8 support, highlighting, any real advanced functions, right-left support or those things found in kmap.h, DIGRAPHS. OK, I'm kindof lying when I say it has no highlighting, the cursor is highlighted, and if we're talking escape sequences, that part should be easy and like 50SLOC, depending on language and what-not And the developer of Neatvi seems to be much more advanced than myself, in C. I'm definitely giving Neatvi a try, after checking out it's source code thank you, very much! I still think that I'll make my own thing, I already learnt
Re: [solved]: vi: How to display German umlauts?
On Tue, Jul 09, 2024 at 12:38:02PM +0200, rfab...@mhsmail.ch wrote: > Dear Страхиња Радић, > dear Jan, > dear Christian > > Thanks a lot for your prompt and helpful answers! > > --- > Am 2024-07-08 20:35, schrieb Страхиња Радић: > > vi lacks a lot of built-in quality of life features that Vim has. > > Yes, I know Vim from Arch Linux. But for OpenBSD, I'd like to try to > stick to the base install as close as possible. > > --- > Am 2024-07-08 21:05, schrieb Jan Stary: > > On Jul 08 18:55:11, rfab...@mhsmail.ch wrote: > > > As I'd rather not switch to vim, I'd be very grateful for any tips > > > concerning the display of umlauts in vi. > > > > vi can't do it. > > Thanks for confirming, Jan! > > --- > Am 2024-07-08 22:07, schrieb Christian Weisgerber: > > There's a port and package of nvi-2.2.1, which is a close relative > > of the base system nvi that has been extended with wide character > > support. > > I have just installed nvi, and the umlauts are displayed correctly. > Many thanks for this tip! > > --- > I'm very grateful for the help misc@openbsd.org offers. A big thank > you to all the list contributors - and of course to all the contributors > and committers of OpenBSD itself. My family and I are very happy > to be able to use it for our daily home office work. > > Best regards > > Rolf > > > > Once upon a time I decided to take a look at Vim source code I did a wc -l, and it gave me like 70 LOC of *.c and *.h files like what the fuck? Do you know how much 700k of SLOC is? Terry Davis made a reasonably good OS in just 100k of SLOC! Very easy to hide malicious stuff like the backdoor that was in xz! That's why I use vi, and am working on my own text editor.. I don't know if it'll ever be good, but I'm aiming for Vi-like simplicity, suckless code base and Vim-like features (only most useful ones, the rest would be in a patch-form, like suckless.org has) Also when I said "am working", it's more like "was working and will work on it again", but I have a problem right now which has paused my programming life... I'm working on it If you're interested, perhaps one day you'll want to test it out.. I'm not sure about the license thought... as I despise licenses and even having a copyleft license like CC is getting on my nerves, software should be free, and non-personal information should be free, too, without any IP or a requirement for a file "LICENSE".. those are just my 2 cents.. It's a little more complicated than that, let's just say that I don't want being required to specify a LICENSE file... I'm just curious about the consequences, would you use a open source peace of software that in the README says "you can use it for whatever you want with no strings attached, and that's about it."? I'm probably rambling needlessly again, that's why none care about what I say
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 05:56:24PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > > and started talking about something else entirely. > > Right. > > > you're wasting my time (and other people's time) > > Now when it comes to polluting the list, > > I don't think I'm the one polluting it.. > > jesus fucking christ, that's _why_ I am sending it offlist; > unlike you, who takes the extra bullshit back to the list, > after being told not to. Yeah, because I was correcting my own double-mistake (1st mistake was I accidentally replied to your offlist email and 2nd was that I had to correct my reply which was already on the list so ohwell) > > I want to become a tester for an audio bug which > > has been in OpenBSD for years for one of my motherboards. > > That, for a change, would have value. > Have you described the bug somewhere? > I Agree! https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=171258729026792&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=167800286026964&w=2 I'm re-opening the tread in a minute and am applying as a tester if possible :)
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 07:27:32PM +0100, cho...@jtan.com wrote: > Anon Loli writes: > > If you were to read all of the emails in the thread for 1st to last, you > > would've seen that I mentioned that I not only read but also followed > > that link as well as release(8). > > If you followed the instructions correctly you would not have wiped > your precious imagery by your own hand nor would you have ended up > with a /usr/sys, but you did both of these things. So either your > ability to process a list in order is at fault or your memory is. > > You would be better off with more asking and less telling. Patiently > listen to how a project with nearly 50 years of history is already > firmly established rather than informing its developers how they > are doing it wrong. > > Matthew > Oh, I followed those instructions well, and you would know the real problem if you read the entire thread (assuming you're talking about the DD issue), I used DD dozens if not hundreds of times, I was just not being careful, that's all.. It was the right drive before I unplug it and plugged a different drive, then plugged back in the original drive (the one I fucked up).. What do you mean with a /usr/sys? Nothing is wrong there, I just didn't expect src.tar.gz and CVS's src/ to be different... no one would unless they've read the most relatable of man pages (probably file sets related) and remember everything perfectly.. all I had to do is move my /usr/sys to /usr/src/sys, no big issue there. A lot of things in OpenBSD work on assumption that the user knows a few too many things, it's not nobrain-friendly, it requires mediocre brain usage, compared to some other OS manual pages (not in their entirety, every OS has it's own flaw) Well if the 50 years of history still can't explain me how they can't handle the differential between datetime of object files, and thus verify the object file is/isn't outdated and thus wether or not the source file needs a recompile, then I don't know what to tell you... Someone mentioned /usr/lib or something like that, but I don't think that really changes anything, as long as the machine isn't SERIOUSLY fucked up when it comes to datetime, it should work even if shit is on another fucking continent on someone else's computer Am I missing something? Then tell me Am I onto something? Then stop being butthurt about it xD Am I a little annoying? Cmon it would be boring without that, just admit it, why be so serious all the time For example CVS repository don't get verified because "that's how it worked for decades and from the start it wasn't made to be verifiable because no one thought anyone would ever do anything malicious" (as far as someone on the mailing list told me and that's how I understood it), you're telling me that it's okay to have that? Hello? Are we just assuming that mirrors are trust-worthy? I trusted my own fucking family and they ruined my life, I'm not trusting fucking mirrors, and no one should, do you understand me? I'm only trusting openbsd.org and that's it (which also shouldn't be trusted, but oh well) There are many things that your "50 years of history firmly established" project is missing, and you aren't seeing it because as far as I see, the following goes for you: Like I said, I consider most of you normal people until proven wrong, and normal people even if they have 50 years of programming experience are still missing an important factor which is critical thinking, in other to become superoir and be a standalone responsible developer Programmers have superior critical thinking than non-programmers, but normal programmers are inferior to programmers which excell in critical thinking and/or have autism.
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 02:24:40PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > On Jul 07 11:33:30, anonl...@autistici.org wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 06:08:20PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > > > > if you want to only build a kernel, go in the right directory and build > > > > only a kernel :-) > > > > > > More importantly, go read the entirety of https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ > > > before poluting this list with your retarted crap. > > > > I'm confident that what you're quotting isn't what I'm looking for > > Exactly. You are confident that the FAQ is not something you should read, > while https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Bld is exactly what you should > read. That is precisely the problem. > No, I meant you and the other person are responding to something that has nothing to do with what you 2 are saying If you were to read all of the emails in the thread for 1st to last, you would've seen that I mentioned that I not only read but also followed that link as well as release(8). And as I'm building EVERYTHING (src, sys, xenocara, kernel), and complained about object files IN GENERAL, your and the other person's reply isn't helpful, especially since I'm proposing/discussing a solution to the object files, or at least looking for a professional respond, which I kindof got from 1 person, but they didn't explain the "you have to be 100% confident date is GOOD, but it's never 100% good", which problem I have already acknowledged, so they are wasting words, and so are you, not me. Yes, I maybe have a little problem in expressing my feelings/thoughts, but you can't tell me that you read this entire thread, because if you did, you wouldn't be annoying in repeating stuff that I've already acknowledged and started talking about something else entirely. Is the subject title corresponding to the proposal/discussion of object file absolute versioning/verification? No, because the subject has evolved.. I'm posting this to the list because in my last email to the list (which I didn't realize you posted off-list I'm sorry but it's too late as I have to correct my own email) I didn't express myself trully Perhaps now I've expressed myself truthfully, and your ignorance in reading threads and replying to them like you know better. I am not an expert in OpenBSD nor have 100% perfect expressioning, but I'm not stupid and you can't be telling me that you read everything that I wrote and are giving a solution, because you're not, you're wasting my time (and other people's time) by not reading. If you're not interested in an thread, don't read half of it and respond, just don't respond at all Now when it comes to polluting the list, I don't think I'm the one polluting it.. sure I can work on my expressions, but there are certain parts of OpenBSD that are laughable, and that is directly connected to it's contributors. Of course you can have 20 years of programming experience, but if you're not a critical thinker, your OS will still be lacking something. I'm not here to laugh at OpenBSD as much as I'm here to try and contribute something. I want to become a tester for an audio bug which has been in OpenBSD for years for one of my motherboards. Take this as an insult if you will, but if I were on your position, I would not, because I know that nothing is perfect, and that even a big fool can be right about some things. You're talking to a guy who installed GNU/Arch Linux over 30 times, just because the documentation was broken for OpenZFS at the time... did I document it? sadly not... I'm sorry if I came out as an asshole, but in my experience, those kinds of people contribute the most to the world, because they are direct, and politicts and other social norms don't get in the way of them achieving superior progress for some project or what-not, because it's not individuals that matters as much as the project that matters, in my opinion.. I might be wrong. Take Terry Davis as an half-example. Then take Code Of Conducts as an example, and their ineffectivness.
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 01:44:35PM +0200, Janne Johansson wrote: > Den sön 7 juli 2024 kl 13:34 skrev Anon Loli : > > > > I don't want the reproductibility of the build, as I want to change the > > > > source > > > > code of the src/sys/dev/pci/azalia.c :) consider me a tester :P > > > > And it's such a shame that I have to wait a lot of hours... AGAIN > > > > So as far as I understand, in the future, all I need is KEEPKERNELS as I > > > > already now how. > > > > > > if you want to only build a kernel, go in the right directory and build > > > only a kernel :-) > > > > > > > > > What the fuck are you farting about? lol > > > > > > I never said "I only want to build kernel", I said that I want all object > > files to remain where they are instead of getting deleted and new ones made > > That's what I meant, and I believe that it's what I actually wrote, too. > > You wrote: "I don't want the reproductibility of the build, as I want > to change the source code of the src/sys/dev/pci/azalia.c" which is > easily understood as you were changing only the kernel and hence you > got advice on how to act if what you changed is just the azalia driver > in the kernel. People can only respond to what you type, not > everything else that you think of. > > > -- > May the most significant bit of your life be positive. And what about the 2 other kind-of opposing things I said? 1. KEEPKERNELS variable and 2. keeping ALL object files idk maybe these 2 are one and same
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 06:08:20PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > > if you want to only build a kernel, go in the right directory and build > > only a kernel :-) > > More importantly, go read the entirety of https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ > before poluting this list with your retarted crap. I'm confident that what you're quotting isn't what I'm looking for, the email I just sent explains more. Please stop trolling
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 03:37:01PM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote: > Anon Loli writes: > > > > I understand, I was a programmer and hopefully will be again.. > > In my opinion the CVS itself should take care in preventing the > > "missbehaving", > > doesn't git do that already? I hope that we're on the same page.. > > I'm just not always understanding/understandable.. > > CVS (or git) take care of the source tree, files which are under > /usr/src directory, and not the files already present in /usr/include or > /usr/lib directories. > > > I don't want the reproductibility of the build, as I want to change the > > source > > code of the src/sys/dev/pci/azalia.c :) consider me a tester :P > > And it's such a shame that I have to wait a lot of hours... AGAIN > > So as far as I understand, in the future, all I need is KEEPKERNELS as I > > already now how. > > if you want to only build a kernel, go in the right directory and build > only a kernel :-) > > $ cd /sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP > $ make obj > $ make config > $ make clean# (if previous step asked for) > $ make # (or with -j2, -j4…) > $ doas make install > > [and reboot to effectively use the build kernel] > > note that the previous example assumes: > - amd64 architecture > - GENERIC.MP kernel > > a full release(8) build isn't necessary for that. > > Regards. > -- > Sebastien Marie What the fuck are you farting about? lol > KEEPKERNELSIf set to "yes", the kernel object directories >will not be cleaned out during "make build". > I never said "I only want to build kernel", I said that I want all object files to remain where they are instead of getting deleted and new ones made That's what I meant, and I believe that it's what I actually wrote, too.
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 11:17:52AM -0600, deich...@placebonol.com wrote: > what you suggest sounds like a really bad idea > > Time is an imperfect construct, with your suggestion you have to have 100% > confidence that system local time is always perfect. I've been doing this a > long time and can recall many instances when an issue arose because time was > off. > > On July 6, 2024 7:01:27 AM MDT, Anon Loli wrote: > SNIP > >(my last email on this thread, about datetime "version check" is needed to > >understand the meaning of this) > >or make(1) can handle this when say building /usr/src, it can check datetime > >of > >the source files (.c, .h), and then the datetime of object files (.o).. now > >there might be a confusion between CVS repository datetime and local host > >time, so perhaps convert everything to UTC unixtime, and perhaps CVS should > >handle the differential between CVS and local datetime (if needed at all) > > > >And voila, that should handle object files so that they can't get outdated. > > > That's precisely what I meant by "handling the differential", I suppose. What do you mean that system localtime is always perfect? NTP already exists.. And I think that the local datetime should be sufficient, no matter how much you try, the files that you get from a CVS or tar.gz should always be older than any changes you make by hand, for example And then when you say go and update, same should apply, but the opposite direction, the CVS/tar.gz should always have newer datetime (assuming changes to such and such files happened)
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 12:40:27PM +, Anon Loli wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 01:49:56PM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> > Anon Loli writes:
> >
> > > On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 07:10:37AM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> > >
> > > I see, so this full rebuild (ignoring object files) is most useful when
> > > for
> > > example fetching an update to the CVS repository?
> > > Is that what you meant by old and new elements?
> > >
> > > But as far as I understand, for local(not updated) development/changes,
> > > keeping
> > > object files is what I want for fast compiling, and to get that I need to
> > > set
> > > the KEEPKERNELS variable, and that alone?
> > > It's weird that one needs a full clean rebuild.. like why even use a
> > > version
> > > control system if it doesn't help when it comes to that?
> > >
> > > I don't know how object files are made, and all that is within them, but
> > > it
> > > would be nice if they would prevent a differential between a clean build
> > > and a
> > > build with old object files... for example with CVS you can probably see
> > > the
> > > difference between locally made changes and CVS repository updates...
> >
> > let's take a simple program:
> >
> > $ cat foo.c
> > #include
> > #include
> >
> > int
> > main()
> > {
> > printf("hello world\n");
> > return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> > }
> >
> > $ cc foo.c && ./a.out
> > hello world
> >
> > to build, `cc` will use several files on the system. in the source file,
> > we could see stdio.h and stdlib.h.
> >
> > if the repository contains changes in stdio.h or stdlib.h, these files
> > should be installed *before* compiling. else, you will use the ones
> > present on the system at compile time.
> >
> > in the previous example, the macro EXIT_SUCCESS comes from stdlib.h, and
> > the prototype of printf comes from stdio.h . if one of them changed, it
> > could result on unexpected behaviour (return will return the old
> > EXIT_SUCCESS value ; or printf will not work as intented and could miss
> > behave). these are only examples.
> >
> > but building programs involve more than just some headers. let's compile
> > with verbose parameter:
> >
> > $ cc -v foo.c
> > OpenBSD clang version 16.0.6
> > Target: amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> > Thread model: posix
> > InstalledDir: /usr/bin
> > "/usr/bin/cc" -cc1 -triple amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5 -emit-obj -mrelax-all
> > -disable-free -clear-ast-before-backend -disable-llvm-verifier
> > -discard-value-names -main-file-name foo.c -mrelocation-model pic
> > -pic-level 1 -pic-is-pie -mframe-pointer=all -relaxed-aliasing
> > -ffp-contract=on -fno-rounding-math -mconstructor-aliases -funwind-tables=2
> > -target-cpu x86-64 -tune-cpu generic -mllvm
> > -treat-scalable-fixed-error-as-warning -debugger-tuning=gdb -v
> > -fcoverage-compilation-dir=/tmp -resource-dir /usr/lib/clang/16
> > -internal-isystem /usr/lib/clang/16/include -internal-externc-isystem
> > /usr/include -fdebug-compilation-dir=/tmp -ferror-limit 19 -fwrapv
> > -D_RET_PROTECTOR -ret-protector -fcf-protection=branch -fno-jump-tables
> > -fgnuc-version=4.2.1 -fno-builtin-malloc -fno-builtin-calloc
> > -fno-builtin-realloc -fno-builtin-valloc -fno-builtin-free
> > -fno-builtin-strdup -fno-builtin-strndup -faddrsig
> > -D__GCC_HAVE_DWARF2_CFI_ASM=1 -o /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -x c foo.c
> > clang -cc1 version 16.0.6 based upon LLVM 16.0.6 default target
> > amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> > #include "..." search starts here:
> > #include <...> search starts here:
> > /usr/lib/clang/16/include
> > /usr/include
> > End of search list.
> > "/usr/bin/ld" -e __start --eh-frame-hdr -Bdynamic -dynamic-linker
> > /usr/libexec/ld.so -o a.out /usr/lib/crt0.o /usr/lib/crtbegin.o -L/usr/lib
> > /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -lcompiler_rt -lc -lcompiler_rt /usr/lib/crtend.o
> >
> >
> > In order to build, the compiler is using the host system to generate the
> > binary: here we see:
> > - a set of default parameters for low-level elements of the compiler
> > - a set of default paths for includes and libraries
> > - some libraries (compiler_rt, c)
> > - some objects (crt0.o, crtbegin.o, crtend.o)
> >
> > if any elements change, it could influence the generated code, and so
> > the res
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
on Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 12:40:27PM +, Anon Loli wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 01:49:56PM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> > Anon Loli writes:
> >
> > > On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 07:10:37AM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> > >
> > > I see, so this full rebuild (ignoring object files) is most useful when
> > > for
> > > example fetching an update to the CVS repository?
> > > Is that what you meant by old and new elements?
> > >
> > > But as far as I understand, for local(not updated) development/changes,
> > > keeping
> > > object files is what I want for fast compiling, and to get that I need to
> > > set
> > > the KEEPKERNELS variable, and that alone?
> > > It's weird that one needs a full clean rebuild.. like why even use a
> > > version
> > > control system if it doesn't help when it comes to that?
> > >
> > > I don't know how object files are made, and all that is within them, but
> > > it
> > > would be nice if they would prevent a differential between a clean build
> > > and a
> > > build with old object files... for example with CVS you can probably see
> > > the
> > > difference between locally made changes and CVS repository updates...
> >
> > let's take a simple program:
> >
> > $ cat foo.c
> > #include
> > #include
> >
> > int
> > main()
> > {
> > printf("hello world\n");
> > return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> > }
> >
> > $ cc foo.c && ./a.out
> > hello world
> >
> > to build, `cc` will use several files on the system. in the source file,
> > we could see stdio.h and stdlib.h.
> >
> > if the repository contains changes in stdio.h or stdlib.h, these files
> > should be installed *before* compiling. else, you will use the ones
> > present on the system at compile time.
> >
> > in the previous example, the macro EXIT_SUCCESS comes from stdlib.h, and
> > the prototype of printf comes from stdio.h . if one of them changed, it
> > could result on unexpected behaviour (return will return the old
> > EXIT_SUCCESS value ; or printf will not work as intented and could miss
> > behave). these are only examples.
> >
> > but building programs involve more than just some headers. let's compile
> > with verbose parameter:
> >
> > $ cc -v foo.c
> > OpenBSD clang version 16.0.6
> > Target: amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> > Thread model: posix
> > InstalledDir: /usr/bin
> > "/usr/bin/cc" -cc1 -triple amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5 -emit-obj -mrelax-all
> > -disable-free -clear-ast-before-backend -disable-llvm-verifier
> > -discard-value-names -main-file-name foo.c -mrelocation-model pic
> > -pic-level 1 -pic-is-pie -mframe-pointer=all -relaxed-aliasing
> > -ffp-contract=on -fno-rounding-math -mconstructor-aliases -funwind-tables=2
> > -target-cpu x86-64 -tune-cpu generic -mllvm
> > -treat-scalable-fixed-error-as-warning -debugger-tuning=gdb -v
> > -fcoverage-compilation-dir=/tmp -resource-dir /usr/lib/clang/16
> > -internal-isystem /usr/lib/clang/16/include -internal-externc-isystem
> > /usr/include -fdebug-compilation-dir=/tmp -ferror-limit 19 -fwrapv
> > -D_RET_PROTECTOR -ret-protector -fcf-protection=branch -fno-jump-tables
> > -fgnuc-version=4.2.1 -fno-builtin-malloc -fno-builtin-calloc
> > -fno-builtin-realloc -fno-builtin-valloc -fno-builtin-free
> > -fno-builtin-strdup -fno-builtin-strndup -faddrsig
> > -D__GCC_HAVE_DWARF2_CFI_ASM=1 -o /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -x c foo.c
> > clang -cc1 version 16.0.6 based upon LLVM 16.0.6 default target
> > amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> > #include "..." search starts here:
> > #include <...> search starts here:
> > /usr/lib/clang/16/include
> > /usr/include
> > End of search list.
> > "/usr/bin/ld" -e __start --eh-frame-hdr -Bdynamic -dynamic-linker
> > /usr/libexec/ld.so -o a.out /usr/lib/crt0.o /usr/lib/crtbegin.o -L/usr/lib
> > /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -lcompiler_rt -lc -lcompiler_rt /usr/lib/crtend.o
> >
> >
> > In order to build, the compiler is using the host system to generate the
> > binary: here we see:
> > - a set of default parameters for low-level elements of the compiler
> > - a set of default paths for includes and libraries
> > - some libraries (compiler_rt, c)
> > - some objects (crt0.o, crtbegin.o, crtend.o)
> >
> > if any elements change, it could influence the generated code, and so
> > the res
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 01:49:56PM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> Anon Loli writes:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 07:10:37AM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote:
> >
> > I see, so this full rebuild (ignoring object files) is most useful when for
> > example fetching an update to the CVS repository?
> > Is that what you meant by old and new elements?
> >
> > But as far as I understand, for local(not updated) development/changes,
> > keeping
> > object files is what I want for fast compiling, and to get that I need to
> > set
> > the KEEPKERNELS variable, and that alone?
> > It's weird that one needs a full clean rebuild.. like why even use a version
> > control system if it doesn't help when it comes to that?
> >
> > I don't know how object files are made, and all that is within them, but it
> > would be nice if they would prevent a differential between a clean build
> > and a
> > build with old object files... for example with CVS you can probably see the
> > difference between locally made changes and CVS repository updates...
>
> let's take a simple program:
>
> $ cat foo.c
> #include
> #include
>
> int
> main()
> {
> printf("hello world\n");
> return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> }
>
> $ cc foo.c && ./a.out
> hello world
>
> to build, `cc` will use several files on the system. in the source file,
> we could see stdio.h and stdlib.h.
>
> if the repository contains changes in stdio.h or stdlib.h, these files
> should be installed *before* compiling. else, you will use the ones
> present on the system at compile time.
>
> in the previous example, the macro EXIT_SUCCESS comes from stdlib.h, and
> the prototype of printf comes from stdio.h . if one of them changed, it
> could result on unexpected behaviour (return will return the old
> EXIT_SUCCESS value ; or printf will not work as intented and could miss
> behave). these are only examples.
>
> but building programs involve more than just some headers. let's compile
> with verbose parameter:
>
> $ cc -v foo.c
> OpenBSD clang version 16.0.6
> Target: amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> Thread model: posix
> InstalledDir: /usr/bin
> "/usr/bin/cc" -cc1 -triple amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5 -emit-obj -mrelax-all
> -disable-free -clear-ast-before-backend -disable-llvm-verifier
> -discard-value-names -main-file-name foo.c -mrelocation-model pic -pic-level
> 1 -pic-is-pie -mframe-pointer=all -relaxed-aliasing -ffp-contract=on
> -fno-rounding-math -mconstructor-aliases -funwind-tables=2 -target-cpu x86-64
> -tune-cpu generic -mllvm -treat-scalable-fixed-error-as-warning
> -debugger-tuning=gdb -v -fcoverage-compilation-dir=/tmp -resource-dir
> /usr/lib/clang/16 -internal-isystem /usr/lib/clang/16/include
> -internal-externc-isystem /usr/include -fdebug-compilation-dir=/tmp
> -ferror-limit 19 -fwrapv -D_RET_PROTECTOR -ret-protector
> -fcf-protection=branch -fno-jump-tables -fgnuc-version=4.2.1
> -fno-builtin-malloc -fno-builtin-calloc -fno-builtin-realloc
> -fno-builtin-valloc -fno-builtin-free -fno-builtin-strdup
> -fno-builtin-strndup -faddrsig -D__GCC_HAVE_DWARF2_CFI_ASM=1 -o
> /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -x c foo.c
> clang -cc1 version 16.0.6 based upon LLVM 16.0.6 default target
> amd64-unknown-openbsd7.5
> #include "..." search starts here:
> #include <...> search starts here:
> /usr/lib/clang/16/include
> /usr/include
> End of search list.
> "/usr/bin/ld" -e __start --eh-frame-hdr -Bdynamic -dynamic-linker
> /usr/libexec/ld.so -o a.out /usr/lib/crt0.o /usr/lib/crtbegin.o -L/usr/lib
> /tmp/foo-8725ea.o -lcompiler_rt -lc -lcompiler_rt /usr/lib/crtend.o
>
>
> In order to build, the compiler is using the host system to generate the
> binary: here we see:
> - a set of default parameters for low-level elements of the compiler
> - a set of default paths for includes and libraries
> - some libraries (compiler_rt, c)
> - some objects (crt0.o, crtbegin.o, crtend.o)
>
> if any elements change, it could influence the generated code, and so
> the resulting behaviour. these elements are installed in the system, and
> could not match exactly what it is in the repository.
>
> so to ensuring reproductibility of the build (not the reproductibility of
> the binary, just the fact that all is working on the same way), a full
> release(8) build could be necessary.
>
> as you saw, it is a long process. so if you don't changes the compiler
> or elements used by it, you could only rebuild a particular directory.
>
> Regards.
> --
> Sebastien Marie
>
I understand, I was a programmer and hopefully will
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and obj gets cleaned?
On Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 07:10:37AM +0200, Sebastien Marie wrote: > Anon Loli writes: > > > Hi list > > I marked this thread as "(boring)" so to not anger snowflakes with > > boring/stupid questions. > > > > So this thread's question is: I found out that when recompiling the base > > system I think that it starts from scratch even though there should be > > object > > files to prevent unnecessary compiling (I did also run "make obj" for the > > 2nd > > time, maybe that broke something), so why is that? (assuming I didn't fuck > > up > > something again) > > > > I'm assuming the process will take another too many hours, and experimenting > > with different settings might be too difficult, so that's why I'm here now. > > > > My questions are why that's like that, and if it's better to just recompile > > everything again (but how the fuck would you guys get any development done > > then? lol) > > > > After reading a few manual pages, by which I mean searching for stuff like > > "clean", I stumbled upon the KEEPKERNELS additional variable which after > > being > > enabled, kernel object directories should not be cleaned during "make > > build", > > > > I'm assuming that this is what I need, so I enabled it in /etc/mk.conf as > > explained in the mk.conf(5)#DESCRIPTION section, and I have indeed verified > > that the variable was set with `make -p build`. > > > > But then with the power of flex tape(joke) I mean du, I figured out that it > > recompiles /usr/obj/lib anyways, and maybe some other directories too? > > > > P.S. I'm following release(8) if it wasn't clear.. > > > > release(8) is about generating a full build from scratch. yes it is a > long process. > > it doesn't reuse old object files by default because it would mean > mixing old and new elements, and the result wouldn't be necessary the > expected system (the one you just ask to build). > > for usual developpement, it is simpler to just build (and install) the > files you are editing (but some developpements still need a full > release(8) process to ensure all is correct). > > for example: > > $ cd /usr/src/games/adventure > $ vi wizard.c > [do stuff] > $ make obj > $ make > cc -O2 -pipe -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -MD -MP -c > /usr/src/games/adventure/main.c > cc -O2 -pipe -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -MD -MP -c > /usr/src/games/adventure/init.c > cc -O2 -pipe -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -MD -MP -c > /usr/src/games/adventure/done.c > ... > cc -o adventure main.o init.o done.o save.o subr.o vocab.o wizard.o io.o > data.o crc.o > $ doas make install > ... > > Regards. > -- > Sebastien Marie I see, so this full rebuild (ignoring object files) is most useful when for example fetching an update to the CVS repository? Is that what you meant by old and new elements? But as far as I understand, for local(not updated) development/changes, keeping object files is what I want for fast compiling, and to get that I need to set the KEEPKERNELS variable, and that alone? It's weird that one needs a full clean rebuild.. like why even use a version control system if it doesn't help when it comes to that? I don't know how object files are made, and all that is within them, but it would be nice if they would prevent a differential between a clean build and a build with old object files... for example with CVS you can probably see the difference between locally made changes and CVS repository updates...
Re: (boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and pobj gets cleaned?
On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 08:08:43PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > Hi list > I marked this thread as "(boring)" so to not anger snowflakes with > boring/stupid questions. > > So this thread's question is: I found out that when recompiling the base > system I think that it starts from scratch even though there should be object > files to prevent unnecessary compiling (I did also run "make obj" for the 2nd > time, maybe that broke something), so why is that? (assuming I didn't fuck up > something again) > > I'm assuming the process will take another too many hours, and experimenting > with different settings might be too difficult, so that's why I'm here now. > > My questions are why that's like that, and if it's better to just recompile > everything again (but how the fuck would you guys get any development done > then? lol) > > After reading a few manual pages, by which I mean searching for stuff like > "clean", I stumbled upon the KEEPKERNELS additional variable which after being > enabled, kernel object directories should not be cleaned during "make build", > > I'm assuming that this is what I need, so I enabled it in /etc/mk.conf as > explained in the mk.conf(5)#DESCRIPTION section, and I have indeed verified > that the variable was set with `make -p build`. > > But then with the power of flex tape(joke) I mean du, I figured out that it > recompiles /usr/obj/lib anyways, and maybe some other directories too? > > P.S. I'm following release(8) if it wasn't clear.. > I meant OBJ in the subject title, I'm so stupid... it's definitely /usr/obj which I'm referring to, when compiling /usr/src and stuff IDK if it's important for this thread/question, but I need to modify a few things under /usr/src/sys/
(boring) why is KEEPKERNELS unset and pobj gets cleaned?
Hi list I marked this thread as "(boring)" so to not anger snowflakes with boring/stupid questions. So this thread's question is: I found out that when recompiling the base system I think that it starts from scratch even though there should be object files to prevent unnecessary compiling (I did also run "make obj" for the 2nd time, maybe that broke something), so why is that? (assuming I didn't fuck up something again) I'm assuming the process will take another too many hours, and experimenting with different settings might be too difficult, so that's why I'm here now. My questions are why that's like that, and if it's better to just recompile everything again (but how the fuck would you guys get any development done then? lol) After reading a few manual pages, by which I mean searching for stuff like "clean", I stumbled upon the KEEPKERNELS additional variable which after being enabled, kernel object directories should not be cleaned during "make build", I'm assuming that this is what I need, so I enabled it in /etc/mk.conf as explained in the mk.conf(5)#DESCRIPTION section, and I have indeed verified that the variable was set with `make -p build`. But then with the power of flex tape(joke) I mean du, I figured out that it recompiles /usr/obj/lib anyways, and maybe some other directories too? P.S. I'm following release(8) if it wasn't clear..
Re: /sys is a symlink to an empty directory
On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 11:57:16PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > On Jul 04 17:08:53, anonl...@autistici.org wrote: > > Hello mailing list > > Probably a stupid question, but I reinstalled OpenBSD like 10 times this > > week, > > and every time I went to compile the kernel like it says in the > > documentation, > > I could always cd into /sys/dev..., but this install it seems like /sys > > points > > to "usr/src/sys" (it's "usr", not "/usr"). > > And in the previous installs it was different? No. > > > All I did on this install was download tar.gz files and extract them in > > /usr, > > including the /usr/sys folder, > > What "/usr/sys folder"? > > > which was supposed to be in /sys pre-installed > > with the system, what's happening? > > /sys is a symlink to "usr/src/sys", as you have discovered. > Untar sys.tar.gz into /sys, or /usr/src/sys, same thing. > > > I'm currently following documentation and doing everything in /usr/sys > > (extracted AND VERIFIED from tar.gz) as if it were /sys > > I'm sorry if this is a stupid question > > What question? > I did discover that, but by myself, I'm only now reading this email.. either the email provider that I use is buggy/late with emails, or my mutt is acting up... Probably by question I meant the subject title (where's /sys?)
Re: how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 09:29:33AM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > Your messages to this list are nothing but a nuisance. > > > On Jul 05 04:18:04, anonl...@autistici.org wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 08:53:01PM +0200, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > > Anon Loli: > > > > > > > That doesn't defent againts the mirror host itself being malicious.. > > > > like HELLO > > > > what are we talking about?? > > > > > > The AnonCVS mirror concept dates from a time when people didn't think > > > mirrors would be malicious. It does not provide any guarantee of > > > integrity. > > > > > > -- > > > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de > > > > > > > > > That's worrying > > Why did I then get told that OpenBSD is not for me? > > > > Hey, I'm sorry for being mentally incapable of being on the same level in some things as you are, no need to shit on me, that's why I excel in other things...
Re: /sys is a symlink to an empty directory
On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 06:35:22AM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 04:15:32AM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 07:34:43PM +0200, Omar Polo wrote: > > > On 2024/07/04 17:08:53 +, Anon Loli wrote: > > > > Hello mailing list > > > > Probably a stupid question, but I reinstalled OpenBSD like 10 times > > > > this week, > > > > and every time I went to compile the kernel like it says in the > > > > documentation, > > > > I could always cd into /sys/dev..., but this install it seems like /sys > > > > points > > > > to "usr/src/sys" (it's "usr", not "/usr"). > > > > > > > > All I did on this install was download tar.gz files and extract them in > > > > /usr, > > > > including the /usr/sys folder, which was supposed to be in /sys > > > > pre-installed > > > > with the system, what's happening? > > > > Did I broke something again and need to install again? -_- > > > > > > > > I'm currently following documentation and doing everything in /usr/sys > > > > (extracted AND VERIFIED from tar.gz) as if it were /sys > > > > > > > > I'm sorry if this is a stupid question > > > > > > > > Partition table: > > > > / > > > > /home > > > > /tmp > > > > /usr > > > > /usr/X11R6 > > > > /usr/local > > > > /usr/obj > > > > /usr/ports > > > > /usr/ports/pobj > > > > /usr/src > > > > /var > > > > > > > > All of them are <25% of capacity, it's a fresh install > > > > > > Don't think it's a stupid question, but also nothing to worry. AFAICS > > > /sys is always installed as a symlink to /usr/src/sys which works assuming > > > that you have the sources checked out in /usr/src (either via the > > > tarball, cvs, or got/git.) > > > > > > I guess it's just to save some typing, not really sure, but nothing to > > > worry about :) > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Omar Polo > > > > > > Really? Phew! That's a relief! > > But I wonder why it was empty before I manually planted the /usr/sys via tar > > extraction... does cvs checkout of SRC also fetch the sys directory?? > > because > > it wasn't empty when I worked with cvs instead > > > > Thanks > > > > You are confused. > The link in / is sys -> usr/src/sys > > There is no such thing as a /usr/sys dir. You probably have extracted the > src or sys tarball in the wrong directory. > > When you say: "I followed the instructions" it is always good to say > explicitly which instructions. > > -Otto More like mentally fucked and left to run only on 2 brain cells by the time I hit compiling no.5 lol https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html release(1) 1. I'm so so sorry, I just realized that responsible things like compiling and/or mailing the openbsd lists shouldn't be done when someone's too mentally exhausted from the issue to fucking read properly... 2. I'm not 100% sure if it's a ME issue, because CVS and .tar.gz files actually differ How? I believe that in CVS the src/sys directory exists, and is a part of the src CVS repository, whereas when using verifiable .tar.gz files, the sys.tar.gz isn't in src.tar.gz... and I was stupid because I was like "what the fuck even is sys.tar.gz", then I realized it was missing, but what I didn't realize is that it was supposed to be in /usr/src/sys, not /usr/sys, so I kindof see this as an issue, like IDK if it's even mentioned somewhere that (can't verify so it's) malicious CVS and verifiable .tar.gz files are different (sys.tar.gz isn't a part of src.tar.gz by default) How did I find this out? I found this out because when I attempted to compile src, it stopped because there wasn't a src/sys directory
Re: how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 08:53:01PM +0200, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Anon Loli: > > > That doesn't defent againts the mirror host itself being malicious.. like > > HELLO > > what are we talking about?? > > The AnonCVS mirror concept dates from a time when people didn't think > mirrors would be malicious. It does not provide any guarantee of > integrity. > > -- > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de > That's worrying Why did I then get told that OpenBSD is not for me?
Re: /sys is a symlink to an empty directory
On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 07:34:43PM +0200, Omar Polo wrote: > On 2024/07/04 17:08:53 +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > Hello mailing list > > Probably a stupid question, but I reinstalled OpenBSD like 10 times this > > week, > > and every time I went to compile the kernel like it says in the > > documentation, > > I could always cd into /sys/dev..., but this install it seems like /sys > > points > > to "usr/src/sys" (it's "usr", not "/usr"). > > > > All I did on this install was download tar.gz files and extract them in > > /usr, > > including the /usr/sys folder, which was supposed to be in /sys > > pre-installed > > with the system, what's happening? > > Did I broke something again and need to install again? -_- > > > > I'm currently following documentation and doing everything in /usr/sys > > (extracted AND VERIFIED from tar.gz) as if it were /sys > > > > I'm sorry if this is a stupid question > > > > Partition table: > > / > > /home > > /tmp > > /usr > > /usr/X11R6 > > /usr/local > > /usr/obj > > /usr/ports > > /usr/ports/pobj > > /usr/src > > /var > > > > All of them are <25% of capacity, it's a fresh install > > Don't think it's a stupid question, but also nothing to worry. AFAICS > /sys is always installed as a symlink to /usr/src/sys which works assuming > that you have the sources checked out in /usr/src (either via the > tarball, cvs, or got/git.) > > I guess it's just to save some typing, not really sure, but nothing to > worry about :) > > > Cheers, > > Omar Polo Really? Phew! That's a relief! But I wonder why it was empty before I manually planted the /usr/sys via tar extraction... does cvs checkout of SRC also fetch the sys directory?? because it wasn't empty when I worked with cvs instead Thanks
/sys is a symlink to an empty directory
Hello mailing list Probably a stupid question, but I reinstalled OpenBSD like 10 times this week, and every time I went to compile the kernel like it says in the documentation, I could always cd into /sys/dev..., but this install it seems like /sys points to "usr/src/sys" (it's "usr", not "/usr"). All I did on this install was download tar.gz files and extract them in /usr, including the /usr/sys folder, which was supposed to be in /sys pre-installed with the system, what's happening? Did I broke something again and need to install again? -_- I'm currently following documentation and doing everything in /usr/sys (extracted AND VERIFIED from tar.gz) as if it were /sys I'm sorry if this is a stupid question Partition table: / /home /tmp /usr /usr/X11R6 /usr/local /usr/obj /usr/ports /usr/ports/pobj /usr/src /var All of them are <25% of capacity, it's a fresh install
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 06:53:39PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > On Jul 02 18:52:50, anonl...@autistici.org wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2024 at 08:29:53AM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > > > > 1. I had a drive SSD sd2a which had a 200G crypto volume sd3i which was > > > > mounted > > > > on /mnt/ssd, all 1 partition > > > > > > Why did you have your crypto volume as an 'i' partition? > > > > Why? Because it says so in the manual, what do you mean?? > > In what manual does it say to create an 'i' partition specificaly? https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#softraidCrypto Here > > > How did you create the filesystem that was on sd3i? > > Well? With the above link > > > How exactly did you 'copy /dev/rsd3i as an image'? > > `dd if=/dev/rsd3i of=/mnt/hdd/ssd-image bs=1m` > > In that case, the image should have copies of the superblock. Is that good? > > > > 4.5. and verified with sha512 that rsd3i is same as /mnt/hdd/ssdimage, > > > > even > > > > though the ssdimage on the backup drive is 19G larger in size > > > > > > No. If one is 19G greater that the other, they cannot have the same hash. > > > So what exactly do you mean by the sizes? Where did you get them? > > > > Duh! But that's what `df -h` said! > > df -h is not the size of the /dev/rsd3i 'file'. Oh, weird
Re: how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
On Thu, Jul 04, 2024 at 08:35:59AM -, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2024-07-03, Anon Loli wrote: > > How do you verify the CVS repository that you got from the available > > Anonymous > > CVS Servers? > > All that I see in manual pages and FAQ is(summarized): > > 1. CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT > > 3. compile > > 4. boom, you now became awesome > > > > but what about step 2? > > Like when you fetch binary images of OpenBSD, you are instructed to use > > signify(1) > > in order to verify the integrity/maliciousness of the fetched data. > > Now how in the bug do you do that for CVS repositories? > > Best you can do is checkout from a couple of mirrors (verifying ssh key > fingerprints against the set on https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html > to guard against mitm) and compare the checkouts (being aware that they > may have been updated at different times so might not all have the most > recent commits). > > -- > Please keep replies on the mailing list. > That doesn't defent againts the mirror host itself being malicious.. like HELLO what are we talking about?? What do you mean compare the checkouts? Is there something like a hash sum for the entire thing? Regardless of it, it's missing in the documentation, I consider it to be a bug, and so should you! Shilling unverified copies from the internet is very suspicious from OpenBSD, I must admit
Re: how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:04:59PM +0200, Florian Obser wrote: > On 2024-07-03 12:59 -05, "Brian Conway" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 12:50 PM, Anon Loli wrote: > >> Hi! > >> I've recently compiled OpenBSD in order to change the source code for the > >> better. > >> > >> There is one problem, however. > >> How do you verify the CVS repository that you got from the available > >> Anonymous > >> CVS Servers? > >> All that I see in manual pages and FAQ is(summarized): > >> 1. CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT > >> 3. compile > >> 4. boom, you now became awesome > >> > >> but what about step 2? > >> Like when you fetch binary images of OpenBSD, you are instructed to use > >> signify(1) > >> in order to verify the integrity/maliciousness of the fetched data. > >> Now how in the bug do you do that for CVS repositories? > >> Right now as far as my non-seeing eyes can see is "just compile the > >> possibly > >> malicious code, bruh, it's all correct"? > > > > You can verify the SSH keys of the anoncvs mirrors here: > > > > https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html > > > > They are operated (for the most part) by the same > > developers/volunteers who contribute to the operating system source > > Why would you trust those people? As far as I can work out they are a > bunch of weirdos. Exactly > > code. If you're not comfortable with that, I recommend using releases > > and snapshots exclusively. > > I recommend reflecting on trusting trust. I know, everyone should read +6M of OpenBSD code and/or just delete/detach files that aren't needed (but how do you know what you need? lol), but before we can do that, the next best thing we can do is only trusting Theo De Raadt himself and no one else > > Brian Conway > > Owner > > RCE Software, LLC > > > > -- > In my defence, I have been left unsupervised. > I fucking love that disclaimer :D
Re: how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 12:59:55PM -0500, Brian Conway wrote: > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 12:50 PM, Anon Loli wrote: > > Hi! > > I've recently compiled OpenBSD in order to change the source code for the > > better. > > > > There is one problem, however. > > How do you verify the CVS repository that you got from the available > > Anonymous > > CVS Servers? > > All that I see in manual pages and FAQ is(summarized): > > 1. CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT > > 3. compile > > 4. boom, you now became awesome > > > > but what about step 2? > > Like when you fetch binary images of OpenBSD, you are instructed to use > > signify(1) > > in order to verify the integrity/maliciousness of the fetched data. > > Now how in the bug do you do that for CVS repositories? > > Right now as far as my non-seeing eyes can see is "just compile the > > possibly > > malicious code, bruh, it's all correct"? > > You can verify the SSH keys of the anoncvs mirrors here: > > https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html > > They are operated (for the most part) by the same developers/volunteers who > contribute to the operating system source code. If you're not comfortable > with that, I recommend using releases and snapshots exclusively. > > Brian Conway > Owner > RCE Software, LLC > How in the fish does verifying SSH keys virtually eliminate malicious behavior? They can be authentic SSH server, but since it's not the official "openbsd.org" server, they can easily inject their own malicious code, it's easier very easy, in my opinion
how to verify OpenBSD CVS repositories from mirrors?
Hi! I've recently compiled OpenBSD in order to change the source code for the better. There is one problem, however. How do you verify the CVS repository that you got from the available Anonymous CVS Servers? All that I see in manual pages and FAQ is(summarized): 1. CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT, CVS CHECKOUT 3. compile 4. boom, you now became awesome but what about step 2? Like when you fetch binary images of OpenBSD, you are instructed to use signify(1) in order to verify the integrity/maliciousness of the fetched data. Now how in the bug do you do that for CVS repositories? Right now as far as my non-seeing eyes can see is "just compile the possibly malicious code, bruh, it's all correct"? Within the release(8), it is said to "Make and validate the base system/Xenocara release", but I don't think that's what I'm looking for. Okay, I can do a signify operation with openbsd-75-base.pub for example, because src.tar.gz is in SHA256* files, but a cvs copy isn't a .tar.gz file, do I have to utilize tar functions myself? If so, then that's annoying as fuck, especially since I didn't see anywhere the utilization of signify or what-not.. If that's true, then I need to reinstall and recompile EVERYTHING yet again -_- I hope I'm just a big fool, I'd rather be stupid here than be correct with this
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Mon, Jul 01, 2024 at 08:29:53AM +0200, Jan Stary wrote: > > 1. I had a drive SSD sd2a which had a 200G crypto volume sd3i which was > > mounted > > on /mnt/ssd, all 1 partition > > Why did you have your crypto volume as an 'i' partition? > How did you create the filesystem that was on sd3i? Why? Because it says so in the manual, what do you mean?? > > 2. I did a `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rsd3c bs=1m` > > for a little over 74M then I stopped approximately 7 seconds later > > You are screwed. :( don't say that > > > 3. After the DD, I couldn't access /mnt/ssd, it said no such file or > > directory > > > > 4. I now have a HDD which I repurposed to be my backup, > > and I copied /dev/rsd3i over to the HDD as an image > > How exactly did you 'copy /dev/rsd3i as an image'? `dd if=/dev/rsd3i of=/mnt/hdd/ssd-image bs=1m` I think > > 4.5. and verified with sha512 that rsd3i is same as /mnt/hdd/ssdimage, even > > though the ssdimage on the backup drive is 19G larger in size > > No. If one is 19G greater that the other, they cannot have the same hash. > So what exactly do you mean by the sizes? Where did you get them? Duh! But that's what `df -h` said! > > 5. Whilst writing this e-mail I realized that I might have made > > a fatal mistake. I think that I backed up rsd3i instead of rsd3c > > Tools differ. Some might work with an image of the (broken) filesystem, > which is what you have. (What filesystem was it?) Some expect an image > of the entire disk. > > > (I was being extremely careful) > > LOL > It's FFS, of course :) Well one of the tools said raw disk, so that one's out of the window.. I think that testdisk's photorec might work.. I've been busy so didn't get to try it yet
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 03:00:42AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Anon Loli said on Fri, 28 Jun 2024 21:43:00 + > > > >I have autism, please be patient ._. > > I know little about autism. Is one symptom aversion to > revisiting/rethinking policy decisions in the face of new situations > where those policy decisions cause you trouble? > > Policy decisions are a necessary part of life. Nobody wants to do a > cost/benefit analysis before performing a task they've done 1000 times > before. But once in a while policies produce problems and should either > be changed or temporarily, for this one situation, discarded. In my > opinion you're in just such a situation now. My suggestion is you pick a > role model without autism, and pretend to be him while making decisions > in this circumstance. > > Among my other professions I'm a technical writer, and the #1 > requirement for tech writing is elimination of all ambiguity. If I were > in your shoes, I'd make a block diagram of your exact situation. > Inkscape is a great tool for block diagrams. The block diagram, plus > some narrative text explaining and describing the situation, in the > exact terms as printed on the diagram, goes a long way toward ambiguity > elimination. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > > http://444domains.com > Why make a block diagram, did you not understand my situation? Did I not explain it well? I used and will utilize block diagrams/flowcharts in my projects, so I understand how important they are, humans and animals are good visual learners It's simple I think (although there were some difficulties in the mid-section), here comes a primitive flowchart: 1. I had a drive SSD sd2a which had a 200G crypto volume sd3i which was mounted on /mnt/ssd, all 1 partition 2. I did a `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rsd3c bs=1m` for a little over 74M then I stopped approximately 7 seconds later 3. After the DD, I couldn't access /mnt/ssd, it said no such file or directory 4. I now have a HDD which I repurposed to be my backup, and I copied /dev/rsd3i over to the HDD as an image 4.5. and verified with sha512 that rsd3i is same as /mnt/hdd/ssdimage, even though the ssdimage on the backup drive is 19G larger in size 5. Whilst writing this e-mail I realized that I might have made a fatal mistake. I think that I backed up rsd3i instead of rsd3c, do you agree that this is a worse mistake than the DD overwrite of the wrong drive? Why you might ask? Because the sd3 crypto volume isn't mounted anymore, IDK if OpenBSD got bored with it being broken for 1 week, or I somehow accidentally unplugged it (I was being extremely careful), whatever the case might be, I no longer can make a backup of rsd3c, so all that I now have is, sadly, only a rsd3i 6. I was told to use fsdb, photorec from testdrive and/or sleuthkit to try and recover my DDd over filesystem and files. So, I guess that I needed a copy of rsd3c, not rsd3i? Am I screwed? I'm so stupid :d P.S. I think that MTpaint is much better in terms of dependency bloat hell compared to Inkscape
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 02:49:07PM -0600, Andy Bradford wrote: > Thus said Anon Loli on Thu, 27 Jun 2024 04:12:57 -: > > > No kidding? The 1st few people made it sound like it's going to be > > relatively easy :( > > I don't think anyone said it was going to be easy, only that your > primary focus should be simply to get a good copy of the raw unencrypted > partition while it was still available using simple techniques as > quickly as possible. > > If you have obtained it, your next goal should be to figure out now what > to do with it. As I understand it, you wrote 74MB of garbage at the > front of that partition. This will have undoubtedly destroyed filesystem > metadata and some other data. Can the filesystem be "recreated" in the > first 74MB as just empty filesystem space while leaving the rest of the > existing data and filesystem in tact? I don't know the answer to that. > Maybe there is someone with more FFS experience that does. Presumably > you know the exact size of the partition and so could at least recreate > an empty filesystem using newfs with the same parameters. Could it > possible to then stich in or reattach chunks of data into this from your > copy? Again, I don't know. Who does? > > Any work you do at recovery should be done on yet another copy of the > same data so that you can keep one "master" copy around just in case. > > Some tools for recovering files can be found in packages like sleuthkit > and testdisk. There may be others of which I'm unaware. > > Andy > I'll see what I can do with Sleuth Kit, thanks!
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 10:12:56AM +0200, lumidify wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 10:49:41PM +0100, Kirill A. Korinsky wrote: > > I suggest you to use some software that may scan your image and try to > > extract something. But I can't suggest anything which may support OpenBSD > > FS. > > If all else fails, photorec should be able to extract many files still (but > without any file names). It's just a pain to actually do anything with the > recovered files since all metadata is lost. Of course, you have to run > photorec on the unencrypted image, not the encrypted drive. > > -- > lumidify photorec isn't in the ports tree
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 04:39:09PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Anon Loli said on Thu, 27 Jun 2024 04:12:57 + > > >On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:34:02PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > >> Anon Loli said on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:17:35 + > > >> But wait. Unless that "other drive" is somehow hotpluggable (like > >> USB), you'll need to shut down the computer to plug it in, and it's > >> way too soon in this process to turn off that computer. > > > >Why? I have it plugged in already and I've successfully not only DDd > >to the backup drive, but also verified that the data on both SSD and > >the backup HDD is the same sha512 hash, even if there's a 19G > >difference in size > > I don't understand exactly what you did. > > >> >the /mnt/hdd is the mountpoint of the crypto volume of the secondary > >> >disk, and then somehow reformat the sd2/3 (the SSD with the > >> >corrupted FS), and then copy over the corrupted image backup from > >> >the HDD? > >> > >> The backup from your dd command isn't reliable, because garbage in > >> garbage out. dd makes a byte for byte copy --- it doesn't heal > >> anything. > > > >But the steps that I already took is good, right? > > You seem to be in an improved situation. > > > Is my corrupt data > >backed up at least? > > You're difficult to understand, but it sounds like your corrupt data is > backed up to your computer's other disk, in some form or other. > > >I need the raw disc copy, not the sd3i copy, > >right? Should I copy both? I have space > > The more the merrier, if you really have the space. Once again, I'm > concerned if you're copying to a disk already in use on your computer. > Be sure you filenames clearly identify which is which. > > > >> >(I got the adapter now, over the network it'd take many days, not > >> >counting broken pipes and what-not > >> > >> 200GB, many days? What are you dealing with, 10Mbit? > >> > >> > > >> >I didn't understand 100% of what you wrote, but if I understand > >> >correctly this is the simpler version of what you recommended, yes? > >> >(no idea what ddrescue is compared to dd) > >> > >> ddrescue helps with iffy disk sectors. > > > >why is everyone recommending rsync then? > > Because at one point you had said you have a mount containing the > unencrypted files. If this had been true, rsync would have been > cleanest and easiest. But your subsequent email stated you do NOT have > a mount containing unencrypted files. Also, nobody said rsync should be > the *only* copy you made, but if it had been possible it should have > been the first. > > >> >In that case the worst problem then would be how to get a > >> >functioning filesystem out of that image of the corrupted system? > >> >(assuming the raw disk of the crypto volume is the image of the > >> >filesystem, should be) > >> > >> I thought you currently have a mount of this partition that's > >> unencrypted. That's sure what it sounded like you said. If so, for > >> gosh sakes, copy all those files somewhere safe before turning off > >> the computer. > > > >I do, it's on /mnt/ssd, but it says no such directory even though `df > >-h` says otherwise > > *What* says "no such directory"? If you can't read the data, then you > don't really have an unencrypted partition, even if /mnt/ssd formerly > contained unencrypted readable files. > > You really need to express yourself unambiguously. And all this > misunderstanding is why every single person advised you to keep it > simple. > > > > > > >> >Or you people keep on saying something like "do this and this and > >> >then backup/save files and directories", but I can't do that if I > >> >can't read the files directly, so how to do it indirectly? > >> > >> It sounded like you were saying you have a mount with an unencrypted > >> version of the files. If not, please forget the step I mentioned > >> about rsyncing the files somewhere else. > > > >I do > > There you go again. Just a few paragraphs ago you said you can't read > it. Please write for clarity and unambiguousness. > > > > > > >> >I copied the image with the above command to the backup drive, what > >> >worries me is the following size on
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
And also thanks to everyone who helped and/or tried to help... I'll try the fsdb utility when I'll have a chance to do it, at least fsdb(8) says that it usually opens a raw disk partition, which I have, so there's that :/ It'd be nice if someone can share any experiences with this matter (which fall under the conditions that which I imposed on myself), especially fsdb, assuming that it can actually help in this matter... in an understandable fashion... unless I waste 5 days on it (and still get nothing lol) A filesystem is like a big part of an operating system, in my opinion, because a lot of things are a file (if not all), and a FS is a system of that, so it's like a foundation of sorts, so good to learn it, just dunno if I'll be capable to consume it's likely monstrous (subjective) difficulty So as far as I understand, because of the 1st 74M being gone (the index of the FS and stuff I'm guessing), that's like the entire FS is corrupt, so I'm guessing I'd somehow have to go trough the entire 220/239G of data with fsdb... and my guess is that it won't be fast
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 05:17:58PM -, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2024-06-27, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 01:12:05PM +0100, Kirill A. Korinsky wrote: > >> On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 05:12:57 +0100, > >> Anon Loli wrote: > >> > >> Right now we have some comercial and open-source software which may support > >> OpenBSD FS, or may simple make a search in data to get some files. > > > > I'm not using anything commercial OR proprietary > > You'd best get familiar with fs(5), fsdb(8) and all the documentation > you can get your hands on about UFS/FFS implementation then. oh, no... :( why I was so stupid... I worked so hard and carefully when handling that backup SSD... one time I'm in a hurry and didn't double-check the device I'm DDing to, and everything (most likely) went to shit... > > No one is getting any image or file or anything from me, and I'm not > > sending my > > drives to anyone. This might sound rude or stupid to you, I'm sorry, but > > that's > > not debatable.. > > Levels of paranoia make me wonder about this email username you're using. :( I'm loli, be nice pls > > Can't I just need to somehow fix the 1st 74M, and then somehow magically the > > "just" and "somehow" are doing *heavy* lifting there. > > Anyway I have no more I can add so I'm ducking out of this thread. > Thanks and fly well (like ducks usually do)
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 01:12:05PM +0100, Kirill A. Korinsky wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 05:12:57 +0100, > Anon Loli wrote: > > > > But the steps that I already took is good, right? Is my corrupt data backed > > up > > at least? I need the raw disc copy, not the sd3i copy, right? Should I copy > > both? I have space > > > > Made as many copy of different things as you can. Better to make useless > copy here now than miss something and understand it when no return. Good point, I have plenty of space right now on the backup HDD > > > > why is everyone recommending rsync then? > > > > Personally, I understand your emails at some point like you had FS with > files mounted. Probably not only I had understand it that way. > > > > > No kidding? The 1st few people made it sound like it's going to be > > relatively > > easy :( > > > > Depends on your luck. > > Right now we have some comercial and open-source software which may support > OpenBSD FS, or may simple make a search in data to get some files. I'm not using anything commercial OR proprietary > Anyway, this isn't easy and fast task. > > If you really need your data I suggest to contact a few companies which > recover data, explain to them that had happened and provide to them your > images. > > Different tools may find different files, or different part of the same file > :) and after that you need to recombinided it into your real files. > > Sounds like a hobby for a while, isn't it? > > -- > wbr, Kirill No one is getting any image or file or anything from me, and I'm not sending my drives to anyone. This might sound rude or stupid to you, I'm sorry, but that's not debatable.. It sure does sound like a hobby for a while! Can't I just need to somehow fix the 1st 74M, and then somehow magically the FFS sd3i magically is alive again, mountable and ridable? (get the double-meaning? xD) I'm wondering how filesystems and how FFS2 works, and if maybe the 74M can be somewhat easily fixable, like do filesystems keep an index of files and I overwrote 74M of that index, or something like that? P.S. I just tried backing up sd3i (non-raw device), and it says "Device busy", so I guess nothing from that..
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:34:02PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Anon Loli said on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:17:35 + > > > > >Why can't I just have another drive(encrypted of course), and do > >`dd if=/dev/rsd3i of=/mnt/hdd/brokenFSimage bs=1m` > > That's an excellent first step. Just make sure you get the destination > right so nothing else gets borked. ._. > But wait. Unless that "other drive" is somehow hotpluggable (like USB), > you'll need to shut down the computer to plug it in, and it's way too > soon in this process to turn off that computer. Why? I have it plugged in already and I've successfully not only DDd to the backup drive, but also verified that the data on both SSD and the backup HDD is the same sha512 hash, even if there's a 19G difference in size > >the /mnt/hdd is the mountpoint of the crypto volume of the secondary > >disk, and then somehow reformat the sd2/3 (the SSD with the corrupted > >FS), and then copy over the corrupted image backup from the HDD? > > The backup from your dd command isn't reliable, because garbage in > garbage out. dd makes a byte for byte copy --- it doesn't heal anything. But the steps that I already took is good, right? Is my corrupt data backed up at least? I need the raw disc copy, not the sd3i copy, right? Should I copy both? I have space > >(I got the adapter now, over the network it'd take many days, not > >counting broken pipes and what-not > > 200GB, many days? What are you dealing with, 10Mbit? > > > > >I didn't understand 100% of what you wrote, but if I understand > >correctly this is the simpler version of what you recommended, yes? > >(no idea what ddrescue is compared to dd) > > ddrescue helps with iffy disk sectors. why is everyone recommending rsync then? > >In that case the worst problem then would be how to get a functioning > >filesystem out of that image of the corrupted system? (assuming the > >raw disk of the crypto volume is the image of the filesystem, should > >be) > > I thought you currently have a mount of this partition that's > unencrypted. That's sure what it sounded like you said. If so, for gosh > sakes, copy all those files somewhere safe before turning off the > computer. I do, it's on /mnt/ssd, but it says no such directory even though `df -h` says otherwise > >Or you people keep on saying something like "do this and this and then > >backup/save files and directories", but I can't do that if I can't > >read the files directly, so how to do it indirectly? > > It sounded like you were saying you have a mount with an unencrypted > version of the files. If not, please forget the step I mentioned about > rsyncing the files somewhere else. I do > >I copied the image with the above command to the backup drive, what > >worries me is the following size on respective disks: > >primary disk (SSD with the corrupted crypto volume filesystem): used > >220G secondary disk (the backup HDD): used 239G > > I hope the capacity of that backup disk is more than 239GB, because > that would be cutting it pretty tight. Maybe you had 19GB of stuff on > the backup drive before doing this operation? > > > > >Why is the size like 19G difference? Does it have something to do with > >me DDing over the 1st 74M of the primary disk? > > OK, here I'm not understanding you at all. data on original disk SSD - is 220G data on the backup HDD that I just DDd and VERIFIED - is 239G how can there be a 19G difference in a same file (DDd image or whatever it's called), and still be the same hash? > And one more thing: That "backup disk", I hope it contains no files you > need for either data or the OS. I said it before and I'll say it again: > Go to the nearest computer store and buy a 1TB to 2TB USB interfaced > hard disk. > > >By the way it might be my imagination, but I think that the primary > >USED size was bigger like 24 hours ago (more than 220G), but I might > >just be seeing things > > > ? > > By the way, you'll still have a challenge restoring the files from the > encrypted device image of the borked drive. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > > http://444domains.com > No kidding? The 1st few people made it sound like it's going to be relatively easy :(
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
(addition to my last reply) Also what do you mean borken machine? My machine isn't broken, it's just that I DDd about 74M of /dev/urandom to rsd3i which is the primary disk for storage, the SSD (and when I say primary it's not the disk with the OS) 2nd thing is what do you mean by copy files, like I said the filesystem is unstable/corrupted a little(or something like that), and ddrescue doesn't seem to be capable of assisting here in this regard So I think that the main problem is how to extract files/fix the filesystem from that rsd3i image that I have backed up now? also is it safe to format the primary disk (ssd) now? as I said the size is different after I DDd to the HDD, it's much bigger than the corrupted image... and I don't think that I can do a hash-sum of the image, can I? WTF I think I can do a "sha512 /dev/rsd3i" xD cool I hope the raw device is what I needed, someone said that... but isn't the non-raw (aka sd3i) where the plain old files are? But I'm still confused as to why I can't view the rest of the sd3i, even though I overwrote only a little big... I don't know how FFS works or filesystems in general how they work, I know that boot drives need certain space for certain OSs, for example for MBR/GBT or whatever it's called, and stuff I knew more about this when I was excercising Arch Linux, but what you don't use you forget with time, I think On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 04:17:35PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 03:05:08AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Anon Loli said on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 18:29:52 + > > > > > > >I don't understand what's so complicated about DD, > > > > dd isn't complicated. ddrescue is even better. However, you mentioned > > you have a decrypted partition on your computer, and transferring that > > is better done with rsync than dd or ddrescue. > > > > >ssh/scp or > > > > DNS, routing, firewalling, all while you're under pressure. > > > > >encryption? > > > > Isn't encryption part of what got you into this situation in the first > > place? It's a massive complication when 99% of your priority is > > recovery. And why do you worry about data security on these USB disks > > (not sticks, disks) when they're only temporary? > > > > >I'll have to find my USB adapter, > > > > A new USB adapter will cost you what, forty bucks? What are your > > priorities here? How much do you value your data? > > > > >this is going too slow > > > > Not if it's USB3. I think 200GB would take less than an hour. > > > > >over the network, > > > > If your network is 1 Gbit, it makes no material difference. If it's > > 100Mbit, it's still not going to turn into a big problem. > > > > >that being said, I think that I mentioned the source > > >drive being over 200GB in size, so why mention USB sticks? lol > > > > LOL, I said USB disks, not sticks. > > > > https://www.newegg.com/model-wdbu6y0020bbk-wesn-2tb/p/1E8-0006-00101 > > > > Three of those cost you three less than $300, and each one holds ten > > times your 200GB of data. > > > > > > > >Encryption is a must, it's not just family photos, but even if it was, > > >I'm still not putting them on clear disk > > > > Well, if that's the hill you're willing to die on. > > > > Did I mention these intermediate disks are temporary, for the purpose > > of recovering you data, and they can be wiped later? Maybe this data > > isn't important enough to reduce the risk of mistakes in encryption? > > > > > > > >Now if you can't answer this that's fine, maybe someone else can.. if > > >I they can't then I'll cry > > >Question is: > > >if I write to the raw crypto volume (the decrypted disk), everything > > >should still be encrypted, right? > > > > Am I understanding that you want to write to the borked disk? Whatever > > the theory of it not hurting things (on a non-injured disk, of course), > > if you value your data I'd not touch the disk in question. > > > > >I don't understand exactly how under > > >the hood OpenBSD FDE works, > > > > Another excellent reason to make this thing as easy and simple as > > possible. > > > > but if I understand correctly, anything > > >written to the crypto volume gets encrypted and what-not, and then > > >stored to the drive encrypted, right? > > > > Whatever the answer is in theory, yo
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 03:05:08AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Anon Loli said on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 18:29:52 + > > > >I don't understand what's so complicated about DD, > > dd isn't complicated. ddrescue is even better. However, you mentioned > you have a decrypted partition on your computer, and transferring that > is better done with rsync than dd or ddrescue. > > >ssh/scp or > > DNS, routing, firewalling, all while you're under pressure. > > >encryption? > > Isn't encryption part of what got you into this situation in the first > place? It's a massive complication when 99% of your priority is > recovery. And why do you worry about data security on these USB disks > (not sticks, disks) when they're only temporary? > > >I'll have to find my USB adapter, > > A new USB adapter will cost you what, forty bucks? What are your > priorities here? How much do you value your data? > > >this is going too slow > > Not if it's USB3. I think 200GB would take less than an hour. > > >over the network, > > If your network is 1 Gbit, it makes no material difference. If it's > 100Mbit, it's still not going to turn into a big problem. > > >that being said, I think that I mentioned the source > >drive being over 200GB in size, so why mention USB sticks? lol > > LOL, I said USB disks, not sticks. > > https://www.newegg.com/model-wdbu6y0020bbk-wesn-2tb/p/1E8-0006-00101 > > Three of those cost you three less than $300, and each one holds ten > times your 200GB of data. > > > > >Encryption is a must, it's not just family photos, but even if it was, > >I'm still not putting them on clear disk > > Well, if that's the hill you're willing to die on. > > Did I mention these intermediate disks are temporary, for the purpose > of recovering you data, and they can be wiped later? Maybe this data > isn't important enough to reduce the risk of mistakes in encryption? > > > > >Now if you can't answer this that's fine, maybe someone else can.. if > >I they can't then I'll cry > >Question is: > >if I write to the raw crypto volume (the decrypted disk), everything > >should still be encrypted, right? > > Am I understanding that you want to write to the borked disk? Whatever > the theory of it not hurting things (on a non-injured disk, of course), > if you value your data I'd not touch the disk in question. > > >I don't understand exactly how under > >the hood OpenBSD FDE works, > > Another excellent reason to make this thing as easy and simple as > possible. > > but if I understand correctly, anything > >written to the crypto volume gets encrypted and what-not, and then > >stored to the drive encrypted, right? > > Whatever the answer is in theory, you're dealing with a disk injured in > a way that's not describable on a mailing list > > > > >I need to make a filesystem out of the backed-up copy if I understand > >correctly, will it still work if 74M of it is overwritten? > >Because then I could maybe DD over the raw(/non-raw?) crypto volume > >and it should work? > >Like what use is backing it up now and then making the filesystem on > >the same drive and fucking up that entire drive? > > If you value your data, and please remember that unless you have > your borked computer plugged into a known good uninterruptable power > supply that can last longer than your longest power outages, you're > one power outage away from losing your data forever, so time is of > the essence. Here is the procedure I would personally use to get the > whole thing done *today*: > > 1. Go to the store and buy two usb3 spinning rust disks between 1TB and >2TB. I'd also buy a 7200 RPM SATA drive to act as your final >*encrypted* disk, or perhaps an SSD or NVMe of the same size. > > 2. Format and partition both of the USB disks. I highly suggest you not >encrypt them, because mistakes happen and things go wrong. > > 3. Use rsync to copy the unencrypted part to a tree on one of the USB >disks. Be sure to unmount it before unplugging it. Now at least you >have that. > > 4. Use ddrescue to whole device copy the borked device to a file on the >other spinning rust USB drive. Be sure to unmount it before >unplugging it. > > 5. USB3 copy both those drives to the computer you intended to copy them >to over the network. Be careful to copy the to the correct mount or >loop mount, because you don't want to bork a second computer. > > 6. Back up the co
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 07:36:57AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Anon Loli said on Sun, 23 Jun 2024 12:19:15 + > > > >Okay, I've enabled the drive now, how do I approach this? > >I want the drive that's receiving the data copy to be encrypted, and > > Encrypted? Man, you're getting too complicated for the situation. > Priorities. Task 1 is to copy over the borked drive to a USB drive so > you have a stable "go back to" point. Task 2 is to have a second drive > to experiment on, safe in the knowledge that you can always restore > from the copy from task 1. Encryption just makes it more likely you'll > bork things again. > > >it'll have to be over ssh, so I'm assuming some combination of DD and > >SCP? > > SSH and SCP? Say what? How bout a USB3 rotating drive? And NOT a > Seagate. > > > > >I've looked on the internet now, and it seems like dump/restore are > >perfect for this (and even faster than dd?) > >So maybe something like > >`dump af /dev/sd3i | ssh receiving-computer "restore xf -"` > >But where would the sd3i end up then and how? would it turn in a file, > >or become a /dev/sd3i copy on the receiving computer? > >If you don't respond, I'll search the internet and try to do it on my > >own (for the 1st time) and possibly overwrite something again lol > > > >Would be great if I could find some great read about this > > > > Personally, I think you're making this much harder than it has to be. > If you care about those old photos, spend the money for enough USB hard > drives, and don't get fancy until you have a copy of your files AND a > backup of the copy of those files. Then you can treat the copy like a > backup and copy them back. > > Seriously, priorities. Prioritize getting those files back, and don't > let anything complicate that task. Don't skip steps. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > > http://444domains.com > I don't understand what's so complicated about DD, ssh/scp or encryption? I'll have to find my USB adapter, this is going too slow over the network, that being said, I think that I mentioned the source drive being over 200GB in size, so why mention USB sticks? lol Encryption is a must, it's not just family photos, but even if it was, I'm still not putting them on clear disk Now if you can't answer this that's fine, maybe someone else can.. if I they can't then I'll cry Question is: if I write to the raw crypto volume (the decrypted disk), everything should still be encrypted, right? I don't understand exactly how under the hood OpenBSD FDE works, but if I understand correctly, anything written to the crypto volume gets encrypted and what-not, and then stored to the drive encrypted, right? I need to make a filesystem out of the backed-up copy if I understand correctly, will it still work if 74M of it is overwritten? Because then I could maybe DD over the raw(/non-raw?) crypto volume and it should work? Like what use is backing it up now and then making the filesystem on the same drive and fucking up that entire drive?
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 04:22:12PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 07:03:36PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > Okay, I now have a fresh big chunky encrypted drive on another machine and > > can > > transfer the image/files from the corrupted sd3i to it, but when I tried to > > run > > `dd if=/dev/sd3i | ssh destination "dd of=/mnt/somewhere/ssdimage bs=1m" > > or even to a regular file on the same machine, I got this: > > "dd: /dev/sd3i: Device busy" > > Because that partition is mounted. > > Since the system is potentially in an unstable state, I wouldn't try > unmounting it. > > Either use the character device rsd3i, or the whole disc 'c' partition. > > Also, once the image is copied over to the destination, check that it's more > or > less the expected size before finally resetting the source machine or doing > anything else to lose the key. > Okay, I'm not worried with the resetting of the source machine, it can run 24/7. What I'm worried about, though, is how do I use the copy on the destination machine to make a filesystem out of it, and do it on an crypto volume of the destination machine? Maybe makefs(8)? And what do I do with the missing 74M? do I truncate that from the copy on the destination machine? This must feel like when doctors do a surgery... I did similar stuff with FreeBSD's encrypted volume, but it was just the metadata that was deleted (that time it wasn't me that was the culprit but some program on another OS) and other stuff I forgot.. I like this, this is, I bet, how one learns stufff and remembers them because well they're traumatic :)
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
((( this is a reply to an older email because I think it's more relevant than older emails ))) On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:35:56PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:02:29PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:51:53AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 01:02:04PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > > > > Hello list > > > > So I was trying to resolve the problem that I just submitted with the > > > > Installer, and I was putting a fresh install75 on my USB, the problem > > > > is that > > > > last DD/flash my USB was on sd2, and in meanwhile I attached my VERY > > > > IMPORTANT > > > > external drive to my computer which became sd2 with crypto volume > > > > attached as > > > > sd3, so it was mounted. > > > > > > There is a difference between the crypto volume being _attached_ and a > > > partition on it being _mounted_. > > > > > > In your case the crypto volume contained within sd2 was attached as sd3. > > > > > > But quite possibly none of the partitions on sd3 was mounted on /mnt. > > > > > > Now you have overwritten the beginning of sd2, which is where the > > > encryption > > > keys are stored. > > > > > > But since it was hopefully already attached a copy of these keys will be > > > in > > > RAM, despite the fact that you have trashed the on-disk copy. > > > > > > So don't reset the machine now, because that copy would be lost. > > > > > > What happens if you do: > > > > > > # mount -oro /dev/sd3X /mnt > > > > > > Replacing X with the partition that you actually had on the external disk, > > > (probably a or d). > > > > > > Are you able to see anything that was on the disk? > > > > > > If so, let us know and don't do anything else that might crash the > > > machine. > > > > > > > I sent a reply with some more info, do you still want me to proceed with > > `mount -oro`? > > No, the partition is already mounted. > > I'm assuming that you only had this one partition on the encrypted volume sd3, > and that it started at or near the beginning of the disk. In the unlikely > event that you had multiple partitions on it, the second and subsequent ones > might still be mountable and intact. > > In the more likely case that it was one large partition at the beginning, then > the first ~70 Mb of sd3 have also been lost, because that data was backed by > the first ~70 Mb of sd2 that you overwrote. > > The one glimmer of hope that you have is that you are almost certainly still > reading the data on the rest of sd3, (past the first ~70 Mb), correctly > decrypted, because the key is in RAM, (but overwritten on the disk). > > If the data was genuinely valuable as you describe, you might want to attach > a new storage volume that is at least as big as sd3, and write an image of sd3 > to that volume whilst you still can, (because once you reset the machine or > detach the sd3 volume the key will be lost). > > In theory most of your data would be recoverable from that image, but it would > require a lot of work and knowledge of ffs filesystem layout. > > If you do make an image of the disk, you could try searching it for ASCII > strings and if you found any then it would confirm that the encrypted data was > correctly decrypted at the time of copying. > > Oh, and in the future it's much easier to make backups than to go through this > nightmare of data recovery. > Okay, I now have a fresh big chunky encrypted drive on another machine and can transfer the image/files from the corrupted sd3i to it, but when I tried to run `dd if=/dev/sd3i | ssh destination "dd of=/mnt/somewhere/ssdimage bs=1m" or even to a regular file on the same machine, I got this: "dd: /dev/sd3i: Device busy" What does this mean? Did I lose the key from RAM or something else? Did I lose my data forever? :(
Re: CD/DVD install failed
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:48:36AM -0400, Nick Holland wrote: > On 6/23/24 09:40, Anon Loli wrote: > > Installer medium is a BD-RE(I think) CD, everything worked up until this > > error > > while installing fileset base75.tgz: > > "Installing base75.tgz 100% |***..**| 408 MB.. > > gzip: stdin: crc error > > That's pretty clear. > > > tar: End of archive volume 1 reached > > tar: Premature end of file on archive red > > Installation of base75.tgz failed. Continue anyway? [no] > > > > The destination medium is a nvme ssd, with FDE, it has a very fast > > CPU, 16GB RAM, etc., the deviations from the installer defaults are as > > follows: > > - did a DD of /dev/urandom on the same disk > > - custom partitioning scheme, /root is the a partition > > > > I did verify the install medium with signify, etc. > > did you verify the install MEDIUM, or the install image file? > Big difference. I verified the install75.iso file > > The way I wrote to the disc was by using cdrecord, writing mode was DAO > > And the fact that you got that far indicates your basic process > was correct. > > > I didn't continue, and it again asked for pathname to sets and stuff, and I > > repeated the installing process again (without rebooting or anyhting), and > > now > > comp75 failed, same error, but this time it defaulted to "done" on file sets > > location and I didn't notice thats right away, so I didn't get to see if > > it'd continue > > The system won't run without baseXX.tgz, so skipping it is not a good > thing. compXX.tgz can be skipped and installed post boot. Not a good > thing, but recoverable post-install. That's okay, but you don't understand, after I entered NO for continue, the process basically repeats, except the good-installed file sets are skipped (in this example baseXX.tgz wasn't skipped in the 2nd try, but on 3rd try it was because the default entering value has changed and I noticed it too late > > on the next reboot, I only did the partitioning scheme deviation > > > > Now the error message is the exact same, except after "volume 1 reached" > > now it > > says > > "tar: Failed seek on file ./var/yp/README: Invalid argument > > so I went to redo the installation of base75 again just as last boot, and > > now I > > got this when base75.tgz was at 97% installated: > > "...ETAtar: Invalid header, starting valid header search." > > ...base75.tgz 100%... > > (and then the 1st error message repeated) > > > > I'll abort this and install via USB instead because I have to do something > > that's time sensitive > > You have an issue in the CD creation process. Either your burner is bad, > your media is damaged, or the reader is bad. I've seen all three, lots of > times. Be glad you got the error...back in the olden days, I had a drive > that would happily install every Novell Netware file on a server...but most > were corrupted. > > Nick. > I probably just didn't do a good burn, I did this before and it was good install, on same CD/burner, but I lost the command that I used.. That's scary, how did you know if it was corrupted or not, and could you somehow verify the installs? I ended up just using a USB stick, sad if I wasted this big CD drive (only one I had laying around)
CD/DVD install failed
Installer medium is a BD-RE(I think) CD, everything worked up until this error while installing fileset base75.tgz: "Installing base75.tgz 100% |***..**| 408 MB.. gzip: stdin: crc error tar: End of archive volume 1 reached tar: Premature end of file on archive red Installation of base75.tgz failed. Continue anyway? [no] The destination medium is a nvme ssd, with FDE, it has a very fast CPU, 16GB RAM, etc., the deviations from the installer defaults are as follows: - did a DD of /dev/urandom on the same disk - custom partitioning scheme, /root is the a partition I did verify the install medium with signify, etc. The way I wrote to the disc was by using cdrecord, writing mode was DAO I didn't continue, and it again asked for pathname to sets and stuff, and I repeated the installing process again (without rebooting or anyhting), and now comp75 failed, same error, but this time it defaulted to "done" on file sets location and I didn't notice thats right away, so I didn't get to see if it'd continue on the next reboot, I only did the partitioning scheme deviation Now the error message is the exact same, except after "volume 1 reached" now it says "tar: Failed seek on file ./var/yp/README: Invalid argument so I went to redo the installation of base75 again just as last boot, and now I got this when base75.tgz was at 97% installated: "...ETAtar: Invalid header, starting valid header search." ...base75.tgz 100%... (and then the 1st error message repeated) I'll abort this and install via USB instead because I have to do something that's time sensitive
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 10:07:55AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 12:19:15PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:56:18AM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:28:37PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 06:03:06PM -, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > > > > If this is really important, I suggest going to buy another drive to > > > > > plug in and dd to rather than trying to do anything complicated. > > > > > > > > Definitely. If the only copy of the key is in RAM, then time is of the > > > > essence. > > > > > > I know.. I have a spare drive that I can enable if only I were to not > > > have a > > > problem with the computer detecting the drives (they aren't in /dev at > > > all, but > > > dmesg is reading them OK), as it is said in the other mailing thread > > > "Installer..." > > > > > > I'll get back to you guys after we fix that issue (if we do, otherwise > > > I'll > > > have to do a different approach to enabling the hard drive which would be > > > bad > > > becaues I want that drive to work as it is, in that computer) > > > > > > > Okay, I've enabled the drive now, how do I approach this? > > Connect an external USB storage device to the machine that has the disk that > you > overwrote, and use dd to copy the raw sd3c device to a file on that new disk. > > Anything more complicated than that is likely to be a waste of time, and could > prejudice your chances of copying the data elsewhere before you lose the > encryption > key. I can't have it as external, the simplest thing would be to copy it over the network, for me I could do that like this: `dd if=/dev/sd3i | ssh destination-computer "dd of=/tmp/sd3copy"` or even `dd if=/dev/sd3i | ssh destination-computer "dd of=/dev/sdXi"` where sdXi is the crypto volume of the destination-computer's receiving drive If you think this approach is okay, how do I proceed? If something like 2nd approach is not possible, then the 1st approach is like a filesystem written to a file? If so isn't there a tool to convert a file to a filesystem? Am I missing anything? > > I want the drive that's receiving the data copy to be encrypted, and it'll > > have > > to be over ssh, so I'm assuming some combination of DD and SCP? > > Forget it. > > > I've looked on the internet now, and it seems like dump/restore are perfect > > for > > this (and even faster than dd?) > > Seriously, forget it. > What do you mean?
[solved] Re: Installer cannot open hd0a
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 08:53:17AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:44:30AM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > Every time I tried it, be it 7.3 or 7.5 install*.img, or I now tried a > > CD/DVD > > 7.5 iso and got "cannot open cd0a.\n booting cd0a", I always went to > > SHELL > > and typed this: > > `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rsd0c bs=1m` the sd0 or sd1 being 2 of my drives > > I always get the exact following message: > > "uid 0 on /: file system full > > > > /: write failed, file system is full > > dd: /dev/rsd0c: No space left on device > > 1+0 records in > > 0+0 records out > > 0 bytes transferred in 0.003 seconds (0 bytes/sec)" > > > > Okay, dmesg seems to see them well, but I don't see them in /dev/ at all, I > > just now realized this > > When using the RAMDISK kernel at the shell you'll need to make the device > files you need using MAKEDEV. > > E.G. > > # cd /dev > # sh ./MAKEDEV sd0 > Oh my lord... I cannot believe that I was this dumb... the funny thing is that I've done this like a dozen times, and I even took a look at FAQ section for encrypting, this is what happens when you are in a hurry... Thank you so much and I swear to computers, that I'm smarter than this I have to make a list of rules in my life, one of them being "if you can, don't overcomplicate things, try easy solutions 1st" :') Sorry Crystal and everyone for wasting your time on an idiot like myself
Re: Installer cannot open hd0a
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:44:30AM +, Anon Loli wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 06:34:19PM +, James Cook wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:46:16PM GMT, Anon Loli wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:11:50PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > > > > (I sent this a few hours ago, but I didn't see it in the mailing list, > > > > I think > > > > you aren't allowed to have a ':' in the subject title) > > > > > > > > Hello list and fellow wizards > > > > > > > > I have a problem installing OpenBSD on one of my computers > > > > I tried 7.3 and 7.5 installs, both(I think, not sure if both share same > > > > "hd0a" > > > > part) give me this right after BOOT command is > > > > initiated in the initial OpenBSD screen: > > > > cannot open hd0a:/etc/random.seed: No such file or directory > > > > It's normal for that message to appear when you're booting from an install > > image. I guess /etc/random.seed is not included because it would be the same > > for everyone, defeating the purpose of the file. > > > > > > And I can't use DD on other drives such as a SD or a WD device > > > > > > > > Do you know what the issue is? It could be just some BIOS option, but I > > > > loaded > > > > EFI defaults so IDK > > > > > > I also forgot to mention that during installation I used > > > auto-partitioning, and > > > that seems to have gone well, except that the / partition was like 130% > > > full > > > because /dev/rsd1 which was the other drive, was like 600M in size or > > > something > > > like that, and I was even able to `rm /dev/rsd1` without problem and that > > > freed > > > up the negative storage space.. so I'm sure that it's something related to > > > storage, maybe a BIOS setting, or maybe my USB drive was corrupted or > > > something? > > > > /dev/rsd1 should not exist. Probably it is a regular file you created with a > > command like cat image > /dev/rsd1. This is a great way to accidentally fill > > up your root partition. If you want to overwrite the contents of sd1, the > > device you want is /dev/rsd1c. > > > > -- > > James > > > > Every time I tried it, be it 7.3 or 7.5 install*.img, or I now tried a CD/DVD > 7.5 iso and got "cannot open cd0a.\n booting cd0a", I always went to SHELL > and typed this: > `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rsd0c bs=1m` the sd0 or sd1 being 2 of my drives > I always get the exact following message: > "uid 0 on /: file system full > > /: write failed, file system is full > dd: /dev/rsd0c: No space left on device > 1+0 records in > 0+0 records out > 0 bytes transferred in 0.003 seconds (0 bytes/sec)" > > Okay, dmesg seems to see them well, but I don't see them in /dev/ at all, I > just now realized this > > There is another message which looked like an error message, right after the > "booting cd0a", it has something similar to "0x00", but it goes away way > too fast for me to read it, is there a logfile of the full boot sequence > output that I can take a look at or something? > So it's after "booting cd0a (or hd0a)", but before "OpenBSD 7.5" aka the 1st line in dmesg There was a logfile with these kind of logs, but I forgot where it is ._.
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:56:18AM +, Anon Loli wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:28:37PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 06:03:06PM -, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > > If this is really important, I suggest going to buy another drive to > > > plug in and dd to rather than trying to do anything complicated. > > > > Definitely. If the only copy of the key is in RAM, then time is of the > > essence. > > I know.. I have a spare drive that I can enable if only I were to not have a > problem with the computer detecting the drives (they aren't in /dev at all, > but > dmesg is reading them OK), as it is said in the other mailing thread > "Installer..." > > I'll get back to you guys after we fix that issue (if we do, otherwise I'll > have to do a different approach to enabling the hard drive which would be bad > becaues I want that drive to work as it is, in that computer) > Okay, I've enabled the drive now, how do I approach this? I want the drive that's receiving the data copy to be encrypted, and it'll have to be over ssh, so I'm assuming some combination of DD and SCP? I've looked on the internet now, and it seems like dump/restore are perfect for this (and even faster than dd?) So maybe something like `dump af /dev/sd3i | ssh receiving-computer "restore xf -"` But where would the sd3i end up then and how? would it turn in a file, or become a /dev/sd3i copy on the receiving computer? If you don't respond, I'll search the internet and try to do it on my own (for the 1st time) and possibly overwrite something again lol Would be great if I could find some great read about this
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:28:37PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 06:03:06PM -, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > If this is really important, I suggest going to buy another drive to > > plug in and dd to rather than trying to do anything complicated. > > Definitely. If the only copy of the key is in RAM, then time is of the > essence. I know.. I have a spare drive that I can enable if only I were to not have a problem with the computer detecting the drives (they aren't in /dev at all, but dmesg is reading them OK), as it is said in the other mailing thread "Installer..." I'll get back to you guys after we fix that issue (if we do, otherwise I'll have to do a different approach to enabling the hard drive which would be bad becaues I want that drive to work as it is, in that computer)
Re: Installer cannot open hd0a
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 06:34:19PM +, James Cook wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:46:16PM GMT, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:11:50PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > > (I sent this a few hours ago, but I didn't see it in the mailing list, I > > > think > > > you aren't allowed to have a ':' in the subject title) > > > > > > Hello list and fellow wizards > > > > > > I have a problem installing OpenBSD on one of my computers > > > I tried 7.3 and 7.5 installs, both(I think, not sure if both share same > > > "hd0a" > > > part) give me this right after BOOT command is > > > initiated in the initial OpenBSD screen: > > > cannot open hd0a:/etc/random.seed: No such file or directory > > It's normal for that message to appear when you're booting from an install > image. I guess /etc/random.seed is not included because it would be the same > for everyone, defeating the purpose of the file. > > > > And I can't use DD on other drives such as a SD or a WD device > > > > > > Do you know what the issue is? It could be just some BIOS option, but I > > > loaded > > > EFI defaults so IDK > > > > I also forgot to mention that during installation I used auto-partitioning, > > and > > that seems to have gone well, except that the / partition was like 130% full > > because /dev/rsd1 which was the other drive, was like 600M in size or > > something > > like that, and I was even able to `rm /dev/rsd1` without problem and that > > freed > > up the negative storage space.. so I'm sure that it's something related to > > storage, maybe a BIOS setting, or maybe my USB drive was corrupted or > > something? > > /dev/rsd1 should not exist. Probably it is a regular file you created with a > command like cat image > /dev/rsd1. This is a great way to accidentally fill > up your root partition. If you want to overwrite the contents of sd1, the > device you want is /dev/rsd1c. > > -- > James > Every time I tried it, be it 7.3 or 7.5 install*.img, or I now tried a CD/DVD 7.5 iso and got "cannot open cd0a.\n booting cd0a", I always went to SHELL and typed this: `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rsd0c bs=1m` the sd0 or sd1 being 2 of my drives I always get the exact following message: "uid 0 on /: file system full /: write failed, file system is full dd: /dev/rsd0c: No space left on device 1+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes transferred in 0.003 seconds (0 bytes/sec)" Okay, dmesg seems to see them well, but I don't see them in /dev/ at all, I just now realized this There is another message which looked like an error message, right after the "booting cd0a", it has something similar to "0x00", but it goes away way too fast for me to read it, is there a logfile of the full boot sequence output that I can take a look at or something?
Installer: cannot open hd0a
Hello list and fellow wizards I have a problem installing OpenBSD on one of my computers I tried 7.3 and 7.5 installs, both(I think, not sure if both share same "hd0a" part) give me this right after BOOT command is initiated in the initial OpenBSD screen: cannot open hd0a:/etc/random.seed: No such file or directory And I can't use DD on other drives such as a SD or a WD device Do you know what the issue is? It could be just some BIOS option, but I loaded EFI defaults so IDK
Re: Installer cannot open hd0a
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:11:50PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > (I sent this a few hours ago, but I didn't see it in the mailing list, I think > you aren't allowed to have a ':' in the subject title) > > Hello list and fellow wizards > > I have a problem installing OpenBSD on one of my computers > I tried 7.3 and 7.5 installs, both(I think, not sure if both share same "hd0a" > part) give me this right after BOOT command is > initiated in the initial OpenBSD screen: > cannot open hd0a:/etc/random.seed: No such file or directory > > And I can't use DD on other drives such as a SD or a WD device > > Do you know what the issue is? It could be just some BIOS option, but I loaded > EFI defaults so IDK I also forgot to mention that during installation I used auto-partitioning, and that seems to have gone well, except that the / partition was like 130% full because /dev/rsd1 which was the other drive, was like 600M in size or something like that, and I was even able to `rm /dev/rsd1` without problem and that freed up the negative storage space.. so I'm sure that it's something related to storage, maybe a BIOS setting, or maybe my USB drive was corrupted or something?
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:35:56PM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 03:02:29PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:51:53AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 01:02:04PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > > > > Hello list > > > > So I was trying to resolve the problem that I just submitted with the > > > > Installer, and I was putting a fresh install75 on my USB, the problem > > > > is that > > > > last DD/flash my USB was on sd2, and in meanwhile I attached my VERY > > > > IMPORTANT > > > > external drive to my computer which became sd2 with crypto volume > > > > attached as > > > > sd3, so it was mounted. > > > > > > There is a difference between the crypto volume being _attached_ and a > > > partition on it being _mounted_. > > > > > > In your case the crypto volume contained within sd2 was attached as sd3. > > > > > > But quite possibly none of the partitions on sd3 was mounted on /mnt. > > > > > > Now you have overwritten the beginning of sd2, which is where the > > > encryption > > > keys are stored. > > > > > > But since it was hopefully already attached a copy of these keys will be > > > in > > > RAM, despite the fact that you have trashed the on-disk copy. > > > > > > So don't reset the machine now, because that copy would be lost. > > > > > > What happens if you do: > > > > > > # mount -oro /dev/sd3X /mnt > > > > > > Replacing X with the partition that you actually had on the external disk, > > > (probably a or d). > > > > > > Are you able to see anything that was on the disk? > > > > > > If so, let us know and don't do anything else that might crash the > > > machine. > > > > > > > I sent a reply with some more info, do you still want me to proceed with > > `mount -oro`? > > No, the partition is already mounted. > > I'm assuming that you only had this one partition on the encrypted volume sd3, > and that it started at or near the beginning of the disk. In the unlikely > event that you had multiple partitions on it, the second and subsequent ones > might still be mountable and intact. > > In the more likely case that it was one large partition at the beginning, then > the first ~70 Mb of sd3 have also been lost, because that data was backed by > the first ~70 Mb of sd2 that you overwrote. > > The one glimmer of hope that you have is that you are almost certainly still > reading the data on the rest of sd3, (past the first ~70 Mb), correctly > decrypted, because the key is in RAM, (but overwritten on the disk). > > If the data was genuinely valuable as you describe, you might want to attach > a new storage volume that is at least as big as sd3, and write an image of sd3 > to that volume whilst you still can, (because once you reset the machine or > detach the sd3 volume the key will be lost). > > In theory most of your data would be recoverable from that image, but it would > require a lot of work and knowledge of ffs filesystem layout. > > If you do make an image of the disk, you could try searching it for ASCII > strings and if you found any then it would confirm that the encrypted data was > correctly decrypted at the time of copying. > > Oh, and in the future it's much easier to make backups than to go through this > nightmare of data recovery. So what you're saying is that I need a new disk that's at least the size of the overwritten SSD, and then make an image of sd3 and copy it over to the new disk? I don't think that I have as you said enough knowledge about FFS... I can use the other computer that has enough storage space, but I can't install OpenBSD well, it's the other recent mail with "Installer" in name, if we solve that, then I can install OpenBSD on there and gain access to a drive where I can then copy over the image of sd3 over ssh then..
Installer cannot open hd0a
(I sent this a few hours ago, but I didn't see it in the mailing list, I think you aren't allowed to have a ':' in the subject title) Hello list and fellow wizards I have a problem installing OpenBSD on one of my computers I tried 7.3 and 7.5 installs, both(I think, not sure if both share same "hd0a" part) give me this right after BOOT command is initiated in the initial OpenBSD screen: cannot open hd0a:/etc/random.seed: No such file or directory And I can't use DD on other drives such as a SD or a WD device Do you know what the issue is? It could be just some BIOS option, but I loaded EFI defaults so IDK
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:51:53AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 01:02:04PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > Hello list > > So I was trying to resolve the problem that I just submitted with the > > Installer, and I was putting a fresh install75 on my USB, the problem is > > that > > last DD/flash my USB was on sd2, and in meanwhile I attached my VERY > > IMPORTANT > > external drive to my computer which became sd2 with crypto volume attached > > as > > sd3, so it was mounted. > > There is a difference between the crypto volume being _attached_ and a > partition on it being _mounted_. > > In your case the crypto volume contained within sd2 was attached as sd3. > > But quite possibly none of the partitions on sd3 was mounted on /mnt. > > Now you have overwritten the beginning of sd2, which is where the encryption > keys are stored. > > But since it was hopefully already attached a copy of these keys will be in > RAM, despite the fact that you have trashed the on-disk copy. > > So don't reset the machine now, because that copy would be lost. > > What happens if you do: > > # mount -oro /dev/sd3X /mnt > > Replacing X with the partition that you actually had on the external disk, > (probably a or d). > > Are you able to see anything that was on the disk? > > If so, let us know and don't do anything else that might crash the machine. > I sent a reply with some more info, do you still want me to proceed with `mount -oro`?
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:39:12AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 02:33:21PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:25:32AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 01:02:04PM +, Anon Loli wrote: > > > > So, guess who did a DD with "of=/dev/rsd2c" instead of > > > > "of=/dev/rsd4c"... ME > > > > Can this volume/drive still be recovered? I think the metadata and > > > > stuff is > > > > lost > > > > "77594624 bytes transferred", so about 74M... > > > > > > First of all, STOP. Anything you do is likely to reduce the chance of > > > recovering data from it. > > > > I did, I realized my mistake the moment that I pressed enter, actually a few > > milliseconds before I pressed ENTER, but my body was too slow to react, and > > in > > my hurry to stop it, I clicked way too many buttons at once, opened a new > > terminal window, switched to a different tiling of windows and by the time I > > found the window and stopped the DD command, about 7 seconds have passed :( > > Unfortunately you've overwritten the volume which underlies the encrypted > volume. > > If you'd trashed the encrypted volume itself, (or the volume was unencrypted), > there is hope to recover some of the data, (we've actually published some info > on how to do this, which is why I said to stop immediately, because the method > relies on some metadata which happens to be in ram, and if you reset then it's > lost). > > In your case, if I understand correctly, you've overwritten the encryption key > and it's not backed up anywhere. The encrypted disk is sd2, at the time of overwritting with DD, I overwrote the RAW sd2, so rsd2, the encrypted volume (sd2) was decrypted (became sd3) and was mounted on /mnt/whatever, with this command: `mount -o rw,noatime,noexec,nodev,nosuid ...` the decrypting on the encrypted volume sd2 was decrypted with: `bioctl -v -c C -l ...` if it matters So it should still be in RAM? df -h still shows the sd3i unencrypted volume mounted on /mnt/whatever but a ls -l of that shows that it's just a file (not a directory with like +200G of data), it gives me this amongst other stuff: `c--Srwx---` and /mnt/whatever*, like it's an executable, it also says the date is 1970 of the mountpoint.. a `du -ch *` says that /mnt/whatever is "-3.9E" in size ;-; if it matters, I did a fsck exactly before mounting it which might now be my last time :(
Re: accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 11:25:32AM -0300, Crystal Kolipe wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 01:02:04PM +0000, Anon Loli wrote: > > So, guess who did a DD with "of=/dev/rsd2c" instead of "of=/dev/rsd4c"... ME > > Can this volume/drive still be recovered? I think the metadata and stuff is > > lost > > "77594624 bytes transferred", so about 74M... > > First of all, STOP. Anything you do is likely to reduce the chance of > recovering data from it. I did, I realized my mistake the moment that I pressed enter, actually a few milliseconds before I pressed ENTER, but my body was too slow to react, and in my hurry to stop it, I clicked way too many buttons at once, opened a new terminal window, switched to a different tiling of windows and by the time I found the window and stopped the DD command, about 7 seconds have passed :(
accidentally overwritten wrong drive with DD, please help
Hello list So I was trying to resolve the problem that I just submitted with the Installer, and I was putting a fresh install75 on my USB, the problem is that last DD/flash my USB was on sd2, and in meanwhile I attached my VERY IMPORTANT external drive to my computer which became sd2 with crypto volume attached as sd3, so it was mounted. So, guess who did a DD with "of=/dev/rsd2c" instead of "of=/dev/rsd4c"... ME Can this volume/drive still be recovered? I think the metadata and stuff is lost "77594624 bytes transferred", so about 74M... FreeBSD has like a .eli metadata backup in /var/backups, does OpenBSD have anything similar? Can you please help me, this drive was my cold storage of most important data as well as childhood memories that stupidly enough are just on this drive. Is it possible to recover at least the rest of the drive if not those 74M? I'll leave everything as-is now (attached and stuff) The drive is a new SSD, and I can't see the crypto volume attached in /mnt anymore.. Please help this stupid bean :(
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