pointless rant... was: Re: Narcicism?
well, until *YOU* responded to it, it had pretty much died. also, not all in this thread was pointless. I did learn a few new things and managed to get some other (BSD related) questions answered. -eric On Dec 7, 2011, at 9:53 PM, Ariane van der Steldt wrote: Just give up on this thread. It's a waste of my time and pointless discussions like this just mean people who do have something to contribute or who have a real question get drowned in noise like this thread. Each time I attempt to catch up on misc, it's threads like these that make me regret that attempt. Why didn't this thread die already? -- Ariane On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:03, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I should lie and make this statement smaller? There is nothing even that big about it. I don't know why I should leave anything other than the facts. It's your choice to guess my intentions for doing so. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Rares Aioanei bsdlis...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/01/2011 05:25 PM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachernsc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. You forgot to list modesty there as well, John. -- Rares Aioanei -- www.johntate.org
Re: pointless rant... was: Re: Narcicism?
Eric Oyen whined: well, until *YOU* responded to it, it had pretty much died. also, not all in this thread was pointless. I did learn a few new things and managed to get some other (BSD related) questions answered. Is that possible for somebody with a claimed IQ of 130 who by his own admission can't deal with people of lowly intelligence? You're just as much of a pompous jackass as the nitwit OP. Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Re: Narcicism?
Just give up on this thread. It's a waste of my time and pointless discussions like this just mean people who do have something to contribute or who have a real question get drowned in noise like this thread. Each time I attempt to catch up on misc, it's threads like these that make me regret that attempt. Why didn't this thread die already? -- Ariane On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:03, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I should lie and make this statement smaller? There is nothing even that big about it. I don't know why I should leave anything other than the facts. It's your choice to guess my intentions for doing so. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Rares Aioanei bsdlis...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/01/2011 05:25 PM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachernsc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. You forgot to list modesty there as well, John. -- Rares Aioanei -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
2011/12/8 Ariane van der Steldt ari...@stack.nl: Just give up on this thread. It's a waste of my time and pointless discussions like this just mean people who do have something to contribute or who have a real question get drowned in noise like this thread. Each time I attempt to catch up on misc, it's threads like these that make me regret that attempt. Why didn't this thread die already? -- Ariane On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:03, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: Because people kept replying to it rather than just letting it die. -- g):g.1e/h2/g )cf71h07e/e.9f04c sunnz.org
Re: Narcicism?
I read the thread, Mr. Hogan. Standing up for someone you consider a friend is not being full of yourself. --- On Mon, 12/5/11, Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com wrote: From: Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: Super Biscuit super_bisq...@yahoo.com Date: Monday, December 5, 2011, 9:57 PM On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Super Biscuit super_bisq...@yahoo.com wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this. If you had a sense of humor and read this thread, you wouldn't have reacted this way. Of course, we all make mistakes and he actually responded to me with a chuckle. Get over yourself, Mr. Super Biscuit. --- On Thu, 12/1/11, Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com wrote: From: Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com Cc: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:12 PM On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
Already overreacted. So, an open apology to Mr. Hogan. I'm reading and replying to the threads from earliest to latest. School's fine. I'm doing a short presentation on BSD systems this morning and a mock trial. Had the practical exam for the A+ class and I didn't do so well. Messed up on recognizing RAM and didn't remember that RIMM needed to be installed in all four slots. In the computer club offering help to those who want an introduction to the BSD flavors or Debian. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: From: Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 3:13 AM easy there pardoner! :) I think he was pointing out my spelling error in jest. anyway, go easy on him as he probably didn't know (and I make it a point not to call attention to my disability, except where it becomes necessary). so, how is school going? -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Super Biscuit wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this.
Re: Narcicism?
Last time that I had worked on OpenBSD on PowerPC was with the BW G3. Lowend Macs aren't good at compiling. I have a Quicksilver and a iMac G4 with the former being available to use. No home internet connection as of yet-- which makes it difficult. It wasn't Orca but I think emacspeak which I tried to get working on PPC with little luck. I'll get back to that project when I have home internet. Second solution was trying to make a Debian Live CD as a PPC Vinux clone. That also needs to be redone. Exporting home scripts seems to be the problem. --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com Cc: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 6:53 AM On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: easy there pardoner! :) I think he was pointing out my spelling error in jest. anyway, go easy on him as he probably didn't know (and I make it a point not to call attention to my disability, except where it becomes necessary). Will be very off topic, but if you're using OpenBSD for your school/work don't you think that it will be fine post for undeadly.org about your stuff? Not sure how much apps is available in OpenBSD for people with some disability. Thx so, how is school going? -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Super Biscuit wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this.
Re: Narcicism?
I am only using openbsd in a hobbyist fashion right now. once I get it setup in a vm, it becomes easy to deal with via ssh. what I wouldn't mind is a desktop that can work with a screenreader. right now, I have had to shelve that and fight an opensuse install that refuses to be accessible, even given the right dependencies (one would think novell would make a more robust production ready OS). anyway... life goes on. -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:53 PM, Tomas Bodzar wrote: On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: easy there pardoner! :) I think he was pointing out my spelling error in jest. anyway, go easy on him as he probably didn't know (and I make it a point not to call attention to my disability, except where it becomes necessary). Will be very off topic, but if you're using OpenBSD for your school/work don't you think that it will be fine post for undeadly.org about your stuff? Not sure how much apps is available in OpenBSD for people with some disability. Thx so, how is school going? -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Super Biscuit wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this.
Re: Narcicism?
Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this. --- On Thu, 12/1/11, Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com wrote: From: Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com Cc: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:12 PM On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
You have another G3? --- On Fri, 12/2/11, Eric Oyen n7...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Eric Oyen n7...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Narcicism? To: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Friday, December 2, 2011, 8:15 AM so true. on another note, I recently had some help getting linux up and working on a macbook g3 )lombard) but ran into some problems with the dubs interprocess communications system. I was wondering if ORCA (a python based screenreader for the blind on the gnome desktop environment) would work in X on openbsd. I may also have to set up an OpenBSD vm with ssh ready to go so I can run the setup from a terminal. I might even check into using that same G3 as a testbed. thoughts? -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Richard Thornton wrote: I have known geniuses who were computer illiterate. On Dec 1, 2011 5:58 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but I am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how their fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a little understanding and a very thick skin. -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
easy there pardoner! :) I think he was pointing out my spelling error in jest. anyway, go easy on him as he probably didn't know (and I make it a point not to call attention to my disability, except where it becomes necessary). so, how is school going? -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Super Biscuit wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this.
Re: Narcicism?
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: easy there pardoner! :) I think he was pointing out my spelling error in jest. anyway, go easy on him as he probably didn't know (and I make it a point not to call attention to my disability, except where it becomes necessary). Will be very off topic, but if you're using OpenBSD for your school/work don't you think that it will be fine post for undeadly.org about your stuff? Not sure how much apps is available in OpenBSD for people with some disability. Thx so, how is school going? -eric On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Super Biscuit wrote: Mr. Eric Oyen is blind. He cannot see the keyboard and makes occasional mistakes. Had you ever read or subscribed to the OpenBSD powerpc mailing lists, you would know this.
Re: Narcicism?
I should lie and make this statement smaller? There is nothing even that big about it. I don't know why I should leave anything other than the facts. It's your choice to guess my intentions for doing so. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Rares Aioanei bsdlis...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/01/2011 05:25 PM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachernsc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. You forgot to list modesty there as well, John. -- Rares Aioanei -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
FLUSH!!!
Re: Narcicism?
so true. on another note, I recently had some help getting linux up and working on a macbook g3 )lombard) but ran into some problems with the dubs interprocess communications system. I was wondering if ORCA (a python based screenreader for the blind on the gnome desktop environment) would work in X on openbsd. I may also have to set up an OpenBSD vm with ssh ready to go so I can run the setup from a terminal. I might even check into using that same G3 as a testbed. thoughts? -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Richard Thornton wrote: I have known geniuses who were computer illiterate. On Dec 1, 2011 5:58 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but I am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how their fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a little understanding and a very thick skin. -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. I feel strange everytime someone says they love OpenBSD. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: Narcicism?
I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on my old sun blade 100. I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video on the sun blade giving me out of sync errors. Openbsd seems to have better drivers since it works fine. R will not work though and this annoys me. Also no recent browser support. Seamonkey 2.04 is old. Daniel Bolgheroni dan...@cria.org.br wrote: On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. I feel strange everytime someone says they love OpenBSD. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: Narcicism?
Am Freitag, 2. Dezember 2011, 06:13:42 schrieb Richard Thornton: I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on my old sun blade 100. I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video on the sun blade giving me out of sync errors. Openbsd seems to have better drivers since it works fine. R will not work though and this annoys me. Also no recent browser support. Seamonkey 2.04 is old. And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on a new computer. :rolleyes:
Re: Narcicism?
Not looking for free support or any support. This box is merely a toy. I have two laptops both 64 bit for serious work. On Dec 2, 2011 6:34 AM, Rudolf Leitgeb rudolf.leit...@gmx.at wrote: Am Freitag, 2. Dezember 2011, 06:13:42 schrieb Richard Thornton: I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on my old sun blade 100. I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video on the sun blade giving me out of sync errors. Openbsd seems to have better drivers since it works fine. R will not work though and this annoys me. Also no recent browser support. Seamonkey 2.04 is old. And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on a new computer. :rolleyes:
Re: Narcicism?
And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on a new computer. :rolleyes: Fuck you man! Who needs a new computer? Blades rule! ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on my old sun blade 100. Net and FreeBSD probably also support it. Depending on what you want to do with your system I would recommend OpenBSD or FreeBSD. FreeBSD will have more current apps (your complaint below) and is a better desktop if you define a good desktop by more apps and more current apps. I don't need the latest of anything so OpenBSD works fine for me. However on SPARC I really like Solaris for a server or desktop. OpenBSD would be better for an applicance like a router, firewall etc. if you have an extra SPARC box. Then again Solaris 10 will go away but OpenBSD hopefully is here to stay. I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian 6.03 Gentoo/Funtoo also run on SPARC64. Openbsd seems to have better drivers since it works fine. OpenBSD always works fine on everything I have tried it on. annoys me. Also no recent browser support. Seamonkey 2.04 is old. What about Solaris 10? The latest Firefox builds are available and so are very recent copies of almost every app. I build everything else from source though. If you're going to run an old box you will either need to accept living with an old OS and old apps or learn to build whatever you want from source. In some cases the latter isn't possible though.
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++. Where am I wrong? -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++. Where am I wrong? -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.)
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.) http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067 -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
Am Freitag, den 02.12.2011, 17:40 +0100 schrieb Anonymous Remailer (austria): Fuck you man! Who needs a new computer? Blades rule! ;-) The idea of OpenBSD, as far as I have understood this, is that you rule the computer and not that you are ruled by a computer, much less a blade :-P
Re: Narcicism?
So still no C++, good to know On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.) http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067 -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++. Where am I wrong? I guess I'm running on the assumption that since C++ is a superset of C (with caveats, of course, some of which are why they're not Linus' preference for the kernel), one has to know C before knowing C++ (or at least as a product of knowing it). That, of course, does not mean one is *good* at C; I've seen plenty of people crippled in writing straight procedural code because they never bothered to learn how to do it right. The other inference you could make is that he already knew C when he started hacking Linux and started learning C++ at the same time. That's the conclusion I drew. You could easily draw both conclusions, I guess, since the wording was a smidge ambiguous. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
still no C++, good to know On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.) http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067 -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. The way it typically works in the US is that no one learns anything of any value unless they do it themselves. :-) Our high schools are still teaching Java as a first language in some cases, which hopefully in Russia gets you dragged out and shot. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated') On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
All this talk about who is a bigger hacker is like muscle flexing in the mirror. On Dec 2, 2011 4:29 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. The way it typically works in the US is that no one learns anything of any value unless they do it themselves. :-) Our high schools are still teaching Java as a first language in some cases, which hopefully in Russia gets you dragged out and shot. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
I wonder how much c++ the Russian programmer from Goldman is doing these days?! On Dec 2, 2011 4:35 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated') On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard Thornton thornton.rich...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how much c++ the Russian programmer from Goldman is doing these days?! Of course a lot to cover all of those black ops :D On Dec 2, 2011 4:35 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated') On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: B On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to pick on or bully someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be picked on. Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. What a huge number of people coming to OpenBSD don't get is the very very different culture here, as compared to the Linux world. I briefly subscribed to some Linux lists several years ago, but dropped them when bombarded with completely undecipherable pleas for help, which usually described nothing relevant but sounded like a bad political bad in its intensity. Newcomers are expected to *read* the documentation and try things, try things several times before asking for help. Squealing for help returns comments of equal usefulness, and possibly comic relief for some people. That the BSD world comes from an academic history shows in terms of the documentation that all the BSDs have, and Linux belies a more active development culture, larger, at the cost of thinking things out, and definitely placing less importance on documentation. It's like oil and water. So it isn't a bug in the OpenBSD crowd, as much as the expectation that people will work on their problems before asking, and to state clearly what the problem is. --STeve Andre'
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:28 AM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=125312230626856w=2 I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On 2011-12-01 08.28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? (Ok, this turned out to be quite a long text, but if you truly want to know why things are the way they are, please read all of it anyway.) My experience is that this is without a doubt one of the most competent, matter-of-fact and fun, in a unixy sort of way, bunch of people I've ever been around (and I haven't even met anyone in person yet). I have never, not once, been met with snarky remarks, disrespect, bad advice, been ignored, bashed, beaten, humiliated or anything of the sort. Sure, I've had ideas, patches and suggestions thouroughly dissected and sometimes declared not good enough, but I'd expect nothing less than the highest standards being applied to whatever is submitted for review. The way to handle that is to learn from the experience and submit better stuff next time, not taking it as a personal insult. The one and only reason people who come on to the list from nowhere, name unknown to the community, gets bashed is THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK FIRST. It is written just about everywhere, so the only way one could possibly miss the lessons about how to behave on this list is to not even bother to look. Let me give you an example you might be able to relate to, because it involves you: A while ago you asked about a problem with mounting an NFS drive. After some questions back-and-forth with a few people I chipped in with this diagnosis, also arrived at by others: 888888 (cut) Your mountd and/or portmap most likely isn't running. Have you followed the instructions in the FAQ? If not, backtrack all your efforts, read up on what to do and try again. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#NFS man portmap man nfsd man mountd man exports 888888 (cut) Your reply: 888888 (cut) Sorry I should have posted. mountd, portmap, and also the appropriate services are running on the server portmap and nfsd. 888888 (cut) Then then next day, you wrote, problem solved: 888888 (cut) mountd was unhappy with my /etc/exports and wasn't starting. I truly wish mountd checked the environment to see where I was running it from and just told me with stdout, but for whatever clever unix reasons does not. 888888 (cut) What this tells me is this: * you don't listen to advice (several people including me told you a service wasn't running, yet you didn't actually CHECK) * you don't do your homework (several people also gave you sound reading advice, which you apparently ignored) * you do sloppy work (since mountd actually WASN'T running on your system, which you failed to check even when pointed towards the likely solution by several people, you ended up misleading all who tried to help) * you're blaming the system for your shortcomings (I truly wish mountd...bla bla bla...) instead of learning to do things right from the beginning, using the truly outstanding documentation that sets OpenBSD apart from *everything* else on the market. * you're not respectful of other people's time and effort, which you apparently expect them to devote to YOU for free, while also obviously reserving the right to take offense when they do WHY should anyone spend even a minute of his or her time to help you, given that you're not even prepared to do a minimum amount of homework yourself, let alone listen to advice from people who actually know what they're talking about? Even so, I've been surprised how civil and courteous people here have been towards you and your numerous problems. Not only don't I agree with your general observations and criticism, as far as I can tell they don't even apply in your own case. Regards, /Benny Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / Words must Benny Lofgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted. /email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to pick on or bully someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be picked on. Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) ciao, David
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/2011 05:25 PM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachernsc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. You forgot to list modesty there as well, John. -- Rares Aioanei
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 02 02:25:06, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot Why don't you dig me? I dig you But you don't dig me I don't understand what it is I had my car re-upholstered I got my hair processed I got a nice pompadour job on it I bought a new pair of shoes I got some new khakis and I met you And we went out to get a Coca-Cola...
Re: Narcicism?
2011/12/1 John Tate j...@johntate.org On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. One thing to point it out: When you are a real Hacker, you don`t call yourself one, people do. When you are a real Guru, you don`t call yourself one, people do. I dont have a big knowledge of OpenBSD, i must say i am just starting, but the first lesson I learneddon`t make stupid questions on a list or i will get a paybackIn some way i understand your frustration... Peace. Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to pick on or bully someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be picked on. Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca -- www.johntate.org -- Atentamente Andris Genovez Tobar / Tecnico Elastix ECE - Linux LPI-1 - Novell CLA - Apple ACMT http://www.puntonet.ec
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/2011 05:39 PM, David Coppa wrote: See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) ciao, David As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. -- Rares Aioanei
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. Psyche-shatteringly awesome troll has massive balls, but is still a troll. News at 11. Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to pick on or bully someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be picked on. Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Rares Aioanei bsdlis...@gmail.com wrote: As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. You don't need to know how to spell. People have spell checkers these days.
Re: Narcicism?
Man, youth is really wasted on the young. On Dec 1, 2011 11:04 AM, Rares Aioanei bsdlis...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/01/2011 05:39 PM, David Coppa wrote: See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) ciao, David As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. -- Rares Aioanei
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. I'm wary of 24-year-olds calling themselves gurus. I'm only 28, but for me, that's at least old enough to know that there's a lot I don't know. I think you'll find most of the serious people on this list also started programming in the language of their respective times about the same time you did. The problem is not the list or the operating system, it's your attitude. Yes, you find yourself getting picked on a lot, but at times it's largely because you've been sloppy. When I get picked on because I've been sloppy, I take it in stride and try to learn a lesson from it (at work, they apply a Dave Riley Coefficient of about 2.5 to any time estimates I make, for example, because I'm consistently bad at it; it's something I'm still working on, but there's no reason for me to take it personally). This is not the list to come to if you want hand-holding or soothing words to assure you that you're master of your domain. It's not an operating system for people who don't like digging into the guts of things, which is partly why it's not wildly popular. To that extent, there's an expectation that if you have a problem with NFS, and Google hasn't provided the instant answer you expected, you might dig around in the (very good) documentation to see how it really works instead of just asking for the quick answers. To wit: Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for the night. Set fire to a man, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett So if you get burned over and over because of the same goof (not RTFMing), perhaps it's time to stop complaining about being cold. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
Hi, * John Tate j...@johntate.org [2011-12-02 02:25+1100]: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. Now I know who I'm gonna call when I get guru meditation.
Re: Narcicism?
John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. Hi John, It's actually spelled narcissism. Chris
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/1/11 7:25 AM, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru [snip] age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I A guru is someone who knows stuff. Mehma
Re: Narcicism?
I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru [snip] age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I A guru is someone who knows stuff. and somebody who doesn't come crying or complaining. Gurus help other lesser mortals. What a good laugh for the day!
Re: Narcicism?
John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. You also think facebook is narcissistic because...no negativity is allowed. http://johntate.org/node/29 Perhaps it's time for the aspiring novelist/philosopher to learn some new words. -- There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - E. Hemingway
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 09:28:25AM -0800, Chris Cappuccio wrote: John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. You also think facebook is narcissistic because...no negativity is allowed. http://johntate.org/node/29 Perhaps it's time for the aspiring novelist/philosopher to learn some new words. .. byebye misc@, too much spam ... -- Gilles Chehade http://www.poolp.org@poolpOrg
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 David Coppa wrote: See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) I prefer narsciscism ;^) Kc
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 10:49:23 -0500 Andres Genovez andresgeno...@gmail.com wrote: When you are a real Hacker, you don`t call yourself one, people do. I call myself a hacker. Others call me a reverse systems engineer, systems analyst programmer, network analyst, repurposing specialist, blablabla. But I've been a hacker since I learned about model railroads and ham radios from my buddy's dad. I have an apple 2 in the basement and know minix, so there ;-) Dhu
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:37:44 + Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 David Coppa wrote: See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) I prefer narsciscism ;^) Kc narchischism? Dhu
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 David Coppa wrote: See the subject: Narcicism And, btw, the correct spelling is Narcissism: as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) I prefer narsciscism ;^) Kc The alternative to beating people up for posting things like What use flags can I use to recompile the kernel to be smaller and faster is entertaining the post below, which happens on the vast majority of open source mailing lists. Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:54 PM Subject: hostname To: netbsd-us...@netbsd.org I haven't installed NetBSD yet, I'm trying to configure the network. It says 'no route to host' I think I need a valid hostname. Can you help me? Thanks
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 10:25, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. John, sorry to burst your bubble, but in your case it really must be done. You are not a hacker. Really. You are not a guru. Really. You are a kid who is having a great deal of difficulty learning the basics. You say you're 24, but I seriously doubt that, considering you cannot spell narcissism and cannot distinguish between apprehend and comprehend. I think you are in dire need of a dictionary (I recommend Oxford). John, you are a legend, but only in your own mind. Your gun has no bullets; your pencil has no lead; your tree has no wood. You have some miles to go beyond setting up basic NFS before you can be called a hacker. This is a good start to your journey: $ man man Thanks for the laughs. No reply is necessary. Really. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca
Re: Narcicism?
...which is exactly the reason I don't post questions. I know that 95% of my questions I've thought of have been answered by a simple man page search, the other 5% are hacked together with Python. As far as being a hacker when people call you that, good lord that term has been bastardized. Any punk that catches your Facebook open is a hacker anymore. I don't answer questions because I don't have the knowledge necessary to yet. When I do I'm sure I'll parrot in with a few RTFMs. Until then I'll just stalk about and read. Cheers. Thanks for your time in reading, Brandon Weaver On Dec 1, 2011, at 1:28 AM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
On 2011-12-01 16.25, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. John, just to put things into perspective... I know you've been bashed quite a bit for the above, as well as for your tendency to ask first and shoot later, which is good if you're a law enforcement officer but not so good if you're trying to blend into a knowledgeable community full of professionals who, frankly, are busy guys. I, on the other hand, kind of like the cockiness you display above - self confidence is important in order to succeed just about anywhere in the world. Don't listen to those who mock you for spelling errors or for having the confidence to do things and stand up for yourself - but *DO* listen to those who, without having to, volonteer their time in order to help you and others on this list and anywhere. Now for the perspective part. I, like you, started out young. Got my first computer at age 11, which was more or less the last my parents saw of me for the next few years or so. It also got me a good head start into the then emerging computer industry; by the time I was 17 I landed an internship with a local unix computer manufacturer due in part to my knowledge of low level machine language programming (but mostly because my father and the CEO of that company were buddies...). By the time you were born, I had about 5 years of unix application, utility and kernel development experience to add to my five years of more or less low level hacking in one of the popular Z-80 based personal computer platforms of the day. I felt much like you do. I was on top of the world. :-) I was young and I was *good* at what I did, and I worked in an emerging field where there were, perhaps, a few hundred people IN THE WORLD doing what I did at the level I were at. Well, that was nearly 25 years ago. I'm 45 now. Since then, I've realized that what I know is not nearly as important as what I *don't* know. I'm still constantly learning new stuff - every day I pick up something new and interesting. I know now what I didn't know then - there is always someone else who knows this particular part of the equation better than you. AND I LISTEN TO THEM. Hopefully they listen to me in turn other times - not because I tell them I'm a guru or whatnot but because I've shown that I only open my mouth when I know what I'm talking about. I'm still very confident in my own abilities though, and because of that I'm good at selling my consulting services to those needing my particular skill set. Therefore, the confidence and cockiness of youth are not at all bad traits. You just need to be more aware of other things. Don't waste time feeling insulted by faceless people on mailing lists - adapt and overcome! Study the archives, learn from those whose advice have proven adequate, correct and useful in the past and ignore the trolls and those who have nothing more useful to share than correcting your spelling errors. Fight the urge to join the dark, trolly side! And, wax on. Wax off. Regards, /Benny Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through
Re: Narcicism?
like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but I am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how their fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a little understanding and a very thick skin. -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
I have known geniuses who were computer illiterate. On Dec 1, 2011 5:58 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but I am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how their fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a little understanding and a very thick skin. -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
so remind me again why we're catering to NLB's and Trolls? On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Neal Hogan nealho...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
2011/12/1 Brandon Weaver keystonele...@gmail.com: so remind me again why we're catering to NLB's and Trolls? I think people are still debugging his bug report.
Re: Narcicism?
Thanks for the laugh, John. I made a meme for you: http://memegenerator.net/instance/11838771 On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern sc...@blackstaff.ca wrote: On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click Send instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big oops, my bad or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like Sorry, I was drunk. You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked stupid questions or said something dumb -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to pick on or bully someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be picked on. Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
.. byebye misc@, too much spam ... Indeed.
Re: Narcicism?
See changes below: Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 02:30 AM Subject: help me To: netbsd-us...@netbsd.org I am a seasoned expert at OpenBSD. I downloaded the IA64 version for my new Intel Quad and burned a CD. I got some stupid warning about burning a 5.2G ISO as data on a 80 minute CD but I ignored it and it worked so no problem. Now it won't even boot. Don't you guys test this stuff before you put it out there. The Windows 7 Ultimate Seasoned Pro Guru Totally Expanded Master Edition that came on this computer runs perfectly, why doesn't FreeBSD even work on this PC. They warned me Linux is totally bogus and I didn't believe that until now. If the installer can't even work I may be forced to go back to Windows.
Narcicism?
I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
http://johntate.org/fact/johntate I now have 7 years of experience in FreeBSD/OpenBSD On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:58 AM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
Something about gladly making fools suffer as opposed to gladly suffering fools. Actually they are a lot kinder and gentler than I would be. -Original Message- From: owner-m...@openbsd.org [mailto:owner-m...@openbsd.org] On Behalf Of John Tate Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 1:28 AM To: misc Subject: Narcicism? I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. -- www.johntate.org
