Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[lists]

Wed, 13 Apr 2016 18:34:43 +0200 Mike Burns 
> On 2016-04-13 15.31.36 +0200, Erling Westenvik wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 09:37:53AM +, Mike Burns wrote:  
> > > I hooked some shell scripts up with zenity to make a wifi GUI.
> > >   
> > Interesting. Care to share the code somewhere? Maybe it could evolve
> > into a port/package?  
> 
> I'll share the code, but it has some caveats:

It's a starting point for all programs, feedback helps a lot.

> - I made this for my laptop and my use cases.

You're very interested in it, which is what it takes indeed.

> - I hate automation.

Just design correct to be susceptible to automation is enough.
Programs evolve into filters and interfaces to other programs.

> - It's not very good.

The future is open, if you keep your interest in it, buckle up.

> - The GUI gives no feedback after you select the access point.

Minor convenience details, you'll have more iterations with it.

> Feel free to turn it into anything you'd like.

Thanks a bunch, please keep it up (don't listen to crappy talk).

> Attached is a man page for wifi(1), the wifi script itself, and wifi-gtk
> which makes use of the wifi script. Run it as 'doas wifi-gtk -C $HOME/.wifi',
> where $HOME/.wifi is your wifi config (see the attached man page).
> 
> ===
> wifi.1:
> ===
> 
> .Dd $Mdocdate$
> .Dt WIFI 1
> .Os
> .Sh WIFI
> .Nm wifi
> .Nd connect to OpenBSD wifi
> .Sh SYNOPSIS
> .Nm progname
> .Fl C Ar config
> .Fl i Ar iface
> .Ar nickname
> .Sh DESCRIPTION
> The
> .Nm
> utility connects to the wifi on the interface
> .Ar iface
> according to the
> .Ar nickname
> as read from
> .Ar config .
> .\" .Sh ENVIRONMENT
> .\" For sections 1, 6, 7, and 8 only.
> .Sh FILES
> The configuration file follows a simple format:
> .Pp
> .Dl nickname: ifconfig-options autoconfiguration
> .Pp
> These three values are as follow:
> .Bl -tag -width Ds
> .It Va nickname
> The name of the wifi network, to be passed to the
> .Nm
> program.
> .It Va ifconfig-options
> Options for
> .Xr ifconfig 1 ,
> such as
> .Li nwid
> and
> .Li wpakey .
> .It Va autoconfiguration
> Either
> .Li dhcp
> for DHCP or
> .Li rtsol
> for IPv6 autoconf.
> .El
> .Sh EXIT STATUS
> The exit status of
> .Nm
> is the same as the exit status of the
> .Pa /etc/netstart
> program.
> .Sh EXAMPLES
> .Pp
> .Dl sudo wifi -C ~/.wifi -i iwn0 home
> .Pp
> .\" .Sh DIAGNOSTICS
> .\" For sections 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 printf/stderr messages only.
> .Sh SEE ALSO
> .Xr ifconfig 1 ,
> .Xr hostname.if 5
> .\" .Sh STANDARDS
> .\" .Sh HISTORY
> .Sh AUTHORS
> .An "Mike Burns" Aq mike+open...@mike-burns.com
> .\" .Sh CAVEATS
> .\" .Sh BUGS
> 
> ===
> wifi:
> ===
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> usage() {
>   echo usage: wifi -C config -i iface nickname
>   exit 64
> }
> 
> args=`getopt "C:i:" $*`
> 
> if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
>   usage
> fi
> 
> set -- $args
> 
> while [ $# -ne 0 ]; do
>   case "$1" in
> -C)
>   config="$2"
>   shift; shift
>   ;;
> -i)
>   iface="$2"
>   shift; shift
>   ;;
> --)
>   shift
>   to_connect="$@"
>   break
>   ;;
>   esac
> done
> 
> if [ -z "$config" -o -z "$iface" -o -z "$to_connect" ]; then
>   usage
> fi
> 
> file="/etc/hostname.$iface"
> dhcp_cfg=$(sed -ne "/^${to_connect}:.*dhcp/s/.*: *\(.*\) *dhcp/\1/p" 
> "$config")
> rtsol_cfg=$(sed -ne "/^${to_connect}:.*rtsol/s/.*: *\(.*\) *rtsol/\1/p" 
> "$config")
> 
> if [ -z "$dhcp_cfg" -a -z "$rtsol_cfg" ]; then
>   echo "Could not find '$to_connect' in $config" >&2
>   exit 1
> fi
> 
> echo "# Autogenerated by wifi(1)" > "$file"
> echo "# Connection name: '${to_connect}'" >> "$file"
> 
> if [ -n "$dhcp_cfg" ]; then
>   echo "$dhcp_cfg" >> "$file"
>   echo dhcp >> "$file"
> fi
> 
> if [ -n "$rtsol_cfg" ]; then
>   echo "$rtsol_cfg" >> "$file"
>   echo rtsol >> "$file"
> fi
> 
> exec sh /etc/netstart
> 
> ===
> wifi-gtk
> ===
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> if [ $# -ne 2 ]; then
>   echo usage: wifi-gtk -C config
>   exit 64
> fi
> 
> config="$2"
> 
> nwid=$(sed -ne 's/\(.*\):.*/\1/p' "$config" | zenity --list --title Wifi 
> --column nwids)
> 
> if [ -n "$nwid" ]; then
>   exec /home/mike/.bin/wifi -C "$config" -i iwn0 "$nwid"
> fi

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[gsowww]

A GUI reduces the learning curve needed, however would not the traditional *nix 
command line card index updated to the modern desktop do the job just as well. 

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mariano Baragiola]

On 04/14/16 11:50, Chris Bennett wrote:


Personally, I hate GUI crap. But there are people who actually NEED it.
He is as firmly dedicated to using OpenBSD as I am.



And this is why my 62-year-old mother has Debian installed on her
laptop instead of OpenBSD. She travels a lot, too. And I am not around
to "fix" her wifi.

I don't think people refusing to use a shell is an OpenBSD problem, but
I see your point and I think a GUI for managing wifi connections would
be useful.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Chris Bennett]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 07:20:24PM +0300, Mihai Popescu wrote:
> > Maybe it could evolve into a port/package?
> 
> So, what is the benefit of typing a text in a text box GUI rather than
> a terminal?
> Again, what is the benefit of displaying a list of wifi networks with
> funny beam sign (which tell you nothing, bytheway) rather that read a
> dBm result from scan option in terminal?
> 
> That so called GUI will bring you nothing different from a general
> confusion. WiFi connect is an utility not a graphical application.
> 

I'm going to answer that based on my extremely frustrating experiences
with my father who no longer has decent short-term memory.

I can explain to him, show him, write down for him, etc. how to use
dhclient and ifconfig. Over and over. He just can't get that or mounting
a flash drive.

This is a never ending problem. For example, we travel a lot. What do
you do at a hotel with six wifi hotspots with wpa and they are all crap?

ifconfig is great. A little too great and informative for him. At this
point, he refuses to read manual pages. Too confusing.

Perhaps a diff for ifconfig would be helpful.

-W wifi only
-s simple output (nwid, bssid, almost nothing else)

# ifconfig  

lo0: flags=8049 mtu 32768
priority: 0
groups: lo
inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
xl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
lladdr 00:08:74:96:ba:e5
priority: 0
media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX full-duplex)
status: active
inet 192.168.44.111 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.44.255
enc0: flags=0<>
priority: 0
groups: enc
status: active
pflog0: flags=141 mtu 33192
priority: 0
groups: pflog
bwi0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
lladdr 00:16:01:18:d1:9e
priority: 4
groups: wlan egress
media: IEEE802.11 autoselect (OFDM36 mode 11g)
status: active
ieee80211: nwid IliumLT500 chan 6 bssid bc:44:34:1e:51:52 40dBm
wpakey 0xeb192b9fce29f97cc5c1d9c614ecf663a7370cd655b76e82b01c9111738d1dae
wpaprotos wpa1,wpa2 wpaakms psk wpaciphers tkip,ccmp wpagroupcipher tkip
inet 192.168.43.71 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.43.255


This is just too much for someone like him too make any sense of.


Personally, I hate GUI crap. But there are people who actually NEED it.
He is as firmly dedicated to using OpenBSD as I am.

I bought a second hand computer that has windows 7 on it.
If we bring that up while any USB OpenBSD drives are plugged in,
the first thing to appear on the screen is that we need to format those disks!
Disturbing.

Chris Bennett

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mihai Popescu]

> Some people like different UIs than other people. Seems like a strange
> thing to be upset about.

Some people like to shoot themselves in the foot. I am not upset about
it, but I don't like to hear screams and ambulance sirens. :-)

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mike Burns]

On 2016-04-13 19.20.24 +0300, Mihai Popescu wrote:
> So, what is the benefit of typing a text in a text box GUI rather than
> a terminal?
> Again, what is the benefit of displaying a list of wifi networks with
> funny beam sign (which tell you nothing, bytheway) rather that read a
> dBm result from scan option in terminal?

Some people like different UIs than other people. Seems like a strange
thing to be upset about.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mike Burns]

On 2016-04-13 15.31.36 +0200, Erling Westenvik wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 09:37:53AM +, Mike Burns wrote:
> > I hooked some shell scripts up with zenity to make a wifi GUI.
> > 
> Interesting. Care to share the code somewhere? Maybe it could evolve
> into a port/package?

I'll share the code, but it has some caveats:

- I made this for my laptop and my use cases.
- I hate automation.
- It's not very good.
- The GUI gives no feedback after you select the access point.

Feel free to turn it into anything you'd like.

Attached is a man page for wifi(1), the wifi script itself, and wifi-gtk
which makes use of the wifi script. Run it as 'doas wifi-gtk -C $HOME/.wifi',
where $HOME/.wifi is your wifi config (see the attached man page).

===
wifi.1:
===

.Dd $Mdocdate$
.Dt WIFI 1
.Os
.Sh WIFI
.Nm wifi
.Nd connect to OpenBSD wifi
.Sh SYNOPSIS
.Nm progname
.Fl C Ar config
.Fl i Ar iface
.Ar nickname
.Sh DESCRIPTION
The
.Nm
utility connects to the wifi on the interface
.Ar iface
according to the
.Ar nickname
as read from
.Ar config .
.\" .Sh ENVIRONMENT
.\" For sections 1, 6, 7, and 8 only.
.Sh FILES
The configuration file follows a simple format:
.Pp
.Dl nickname: ifconfig-options autoconfiguration
.Pp
These three values are as follow:
.Bl -tag -width Ds
.It Va nickname
The name of the wifi network, to be passed to the
.Nm
program.
.It Va ifconfig-options
Options for
.Xr ifconfig 1 ,
such as
.Li nwid
and
.Li wpakey .
.It Va autoconfiguration
Either
.Li dhcp
for DHCP or
.Li rtsol
for IPv6 autoconf.
.El
.Sh EXIT STATUS
The exit status of
.Nm
is the same as the exit status of the
.Pa /etc/netstart
program.
.Sh EXAMPLES
.Pp
.Dl sudo wifi -C ~/.wifi -i iwn0 home
.Pp
.\" .Sh DIAGNOSTICS
.\" For sections 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 printf/stderr messages only.
.Sh SEE ALSO
.Xr ifconfig 1 ,
.Xr hostname.if 5
.\" .Sh STANDARDS
.\" .Sh HISTORY
.Sh AUTHORS
.An "Mike Burns" Aq mike+open...@mike-burns.com
.\" .Sh CAVEATS
.\" .Sh BUGS

===
wifi:
===

#!/bin/sh

usage() {
  echo usage: wifi -C config -i iface nickname
  exit 64
}

args=`getopt "C:i:" $*`

if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
  usage
fi

set -- $args

while [ $# -ne 0 ]; do
  case "$1" in
-C)
  config="$2"
  shift; shift
  ;;
-i)
  iface="$2"
  shift; shift
  ;;
--)
  shift
  to_connect="$@"
  break
  ;;
  esac
done

if [ -z "$config" -o -z "$iface" -o -z "$to_connect" ]; then
  usage
fi

file="/etc/hostname.$iface"
dhcp_cfg=$(sed -ne "/^${to_connect}:.*dhcp/s/.*: *\(.*\) *dhcp/\1/p" "$config")
rtsol_cfg=$(sed -ne "/^${to_connect}:.*rtsol/s/.*: *\(.*\) *rtsol/\1/p" 
"$config")

if [ -z "$dhcp_cfg" -a -z "$rtsol_cfg" ]; then
  echo "Could not find '$to_connect' in $config" >&2
  exit 1
fi

echo "# Autogenerated by wifi(1)" > "$file"
echo "# Connection name: '${to_connect}'" >> "$file"

if [ -n "$dhcp_cfg" ]; then
  echo "$dhcp_cfg" >> "$file"
  echo dhcp >> "$file"
fi

if [ -n "$rtsol_cfg" ]; then
  echo "$rtsol_cfg" >> "$file"
  echo rtsol >> "$file"
fi

exec sh /etc/netstart

===
wifi-gtk
===

#!/bin/sh

if [ $# -ne 2 ]; then
  echo usage: wifi-gtk -C config
  exit 64
fi

config="$2"

nwid=$(sed -ne 's/\(.*\):.*/\1/p' "$config" | zenity --list --title Wifi 
--column nwids)

if [ -n "$nwid" ]; then
  exec /home/mike/.bin/wifi -C "$config" -i iwn0 "$nwid"
fi

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mihai Popescu]

> Maybe it could evolve into a port/package?

So, what is the benefit of typing a text in a text box GUI rather than
a terminal?
Again, what is the benefit of displaying a list of wifi networks with
funny beam sign (which tell you nothing, bytheway) rather that read a
dBm result from scan option in terminal?

That so called GUI will bring you nothing different from a general
confusion. WiFi connect is an utility not a graphical application.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Erling Westenvik]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 09:37:53AM +, Mike Burns wrote:
> On 2016-04-13 10.42.28 +0200, Erling Westenvik wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:34:16PM -0400, Implausibility wrote:
> > Various attempts on creating "generic" wifi network connection manager
> > scripts have been made. None with a true GUI AFAIK.
> 
> I hooked some shell scripts up with zenity to make a GUI.
> 
Interesting. Care to share the code somewhere? Maybe it could evolve
into a port/package?

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Implausibility]

Thanks to everyone for their comments!

I'm going to put a fresh install of OpenBSD 5.9 on my laptop, and I'll try all
of your recommendations.

Take care.

> On Apr 13, 2016, at 5:37 AM, Mike Burns 
wrote:
>
> On 2016-04-13 10.42.28 +0200, Erling Westenvik wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:34:16PM -0400, Implausibility wrote:
>> Various attempts on creating "generic" wifi network connection manager
>> scripts have been made. None with a true GUI AFAIK.
>
> I hooked some shell scripts up with zenity to make a GUI.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[lists]

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 20:40:52 -0400 Michael McConville 
> Implausibility wrote:
> > I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the
> > directory structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a
> > more friendly way to search for and discover new/interesting ports
> > packages, I'd appreciate a link.  
> 
> 'pkg_info -Q $YOUR_QUERY' will show package names containing
> $YOUR_QUERY.

This provides description for a specific package:

$ pkg_info -d pkg_mgr

Description:
pkg_mgr is a high-level, user-friendly package browser for OpenBSD..

This installs a package:

$ pkg_add -v pkg_mgr

The cvsweb has a category sysutils for more ports like pkg_mgr:

[http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/sysutils/]

You use the pkg_mgr to quickly browse, pkg_add to install, and cvsweb
to read ports details should you need these.

For some additional web based convenience you can at times query the
external page:

[http://openports.se/sysutils]

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Mike Burns]

On 2016-04-13 10.42.28 +0200, Erling Westenvik wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:34:16PM -0400, Implausibility wrote:
> Various attempts on creating "generic" wifi network connection manager
> scripts have been made. None with a true GUI AFAIK.

I hooked some shell scripts up with zenity to make a GUI.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Craig Skinner]

Hi there,

On 2016-04-12 Tue 20:34 PM |, Implausibility wrote:
> 
> I don't need a lot, I spend most of my time at a shell prompt, but I'm
> thinking I need a better window manager, possibly Firefox (or a recommended
> lightweight alternative) and any invaluable X-based utilities.
> 

dillo is a useful lightweight non-java-script GUI web browser,
great for simple sites, web searches, etc.

claws-mail is a pretty good GUI mail client.

Cool.
-- 
"I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions."
-- Lillian Hellman

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Erling Westenvik]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:34:16PM -0400, Implausibility wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a few old ThinkPads here, and I'd like to explore getting OpenBSD
> running as a lightweight desktop computer.
> 
> I don't need a lot, I spend most of my time at a shell prompt, but I'm
> thinking I need a better window manager, possibly Firefox (or a recommended
> lightweight alternative) and any invaluable X-based utilities.
> 
> I've had trouble getting the laptop connected to my local WiFi network,
> despite having compatible cards and a straightforward security config (WPA2),
> despite having followed the documentation.  If there's a
> network-connection-manager GUI available, that would be nice, but isn't
> essential.

Various attempts on creating "generic" wifi network connection manager
scripts have been made. None with a true GUI AFAIK. I used the shell script from
github below for some time on my T500 but lately it hasn't worked as
expected and I haven't had the time to investigate. (Currently I just
have half a dozen shell scripts, one for each wifi network I'm
connecting to.)

https://github.com/devious/wiconfig

> 
> I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the directory
> structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a more friendly way
> to search for and discover new/interesting ports packages, I'd appreciate a
> link.

There is pkg_mgr(1) in packages. I use it a lot to poke around looking
for interesting packages. Have a look at its description by issuing:

$ pkg_info pkg_mgr

and install it with:

# pkg_add pkg_mgr


When looking for ports I use:

$ cd /usr/ports
$ make search key=


> Thanks.

Regards,

Erling

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Chris Bennett]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:24:15PM -0500, frederick w. soucy wrote:
> It could be that your wifi card needs firmware that isn`t installed.
> If you can connect via ethernet try to run fw_update. 

You may need to use wired network to get the firmware.
When I install onto a usb flash drive, I use fw_update -a to make sure I
have firmware for anything I might run into.
That command installs everything! But it will also cover your new wifi
card after the present one cooks itself dead later!

But all the firmware really isn't that big a group. It's up to you.

Chris Bennett

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Chris Bennett]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 08:34:16PM -0400, Implausibility wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a few old ThinkPads here, and I'd like to explore getting OpenBSD
> running as a lightweight desktop computer.
> 
> I don't need a lot, I spend most of my time at a shell prompt, but I'm
> thinking I need a better window manager, possibly Firefox (or a recommended
> lightweight alternative) and any invaluable X-based utilities.

I'm biased in that I use older computers. I find that using spectrwm as
a window manager and terminus fonts to be an excellent and extremely low
memory and CPU time. It defaults to 10 screens and can be extended to 22
(right?)Within each screen you can have multiple windows and "float"
them into nice positions, just like managers like KDE do.

I started off with KDE, coming from the windows world, but quickly tired
of it and jumped over to spectrwm once it was developed.

Ports contains a few programs that are NOT in packages and also some
FLAVORS that you might prefer over the standard packages. But always use
the packages unless you have some special needs. I find looking around
the ports tree very helpful to find out possible programs I need.
Then I just type pkg_add program_i_need program_to_try, etc.

I install lynx text browser and use lynx $PKG_PATH to look for relevant
but not obvious choices. I speak Spanish also which makes finding
Spanish language files for different programs a breeze doing that.
But lynx works poorly outside of a window manager xterm. I open another
xterm next to it and pkg_add away everything I see that might be good.

Maybe bad advice, but I use ifconfig xxx0 down, pull the card out, then
back in and try again. ifconfig xxx0 scan is very helpful!

And of course, asking for exactly what you need (in subject!) might get
you good advice. Or maybe not. Behind the scenes, the developers are
working their arses off making things better, so don't be offended if
you don't get an answer.

Good luck

Chris Bennett

> 
> I've had trouble getting the laptop connected to my local WiFi network,
> despite having compatible cards and a straightforward security config (WPA2),
> despite having followed the documentation.  If there's a
> network-connection-manager GUI available, that would be nice, but isn't
> essential.
> 
> I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the directory
> structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a more friendly way
> to search for and discover new/interesting ports packages, I'd appreciate a
> link.
> 
> Thanks.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[frederick w. soucy]

On 2016.04.12, Implausibility wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a few old ThinkPads here, and I'd like to explore getting OpenBSD
> running as a lightweight desktop computer.
> 
> I don't need a lot, I spend most of my time at a shell prompt, but I'm
> thinking I need a better window manager, possibly Firefox (or a recommended
> lightweight alternative) and any invaluable X-based utilities.
> 
OpenBSD comes with the excellent window manager cwm installed by 
default. It has top-notch keyboard control, the ability to organize
windows into groups and dynamically display them and search for windows
by name to list some of it`s highlights. Also it isn`t an obnoxious
tiling monstrosity that seem all the rage these days.

> I've had trouble getting the laptop connected to my local WiFi network,
> despite having compatible cards and a straightforward security config (WPA2),

Wifi is pretty straight forward in OpenBSD. Either from the cli:
# ifconfig  up nwid  wpakey 
# dhclient 
check man hostname.if for a permenant setup.

It could be that your wifi card needs firmware that isn`t installed.
If you can connect via ethernet try to run fw_update. 

> despite having followed the documentation.  If there's a
> network-connection-manager GUI available, that would be nice, but isn't
> essential.
> 
> I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the directory
> structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a more friendly way
> to search for and discover new/interesting ports packages, I'd appreciate a
> link.

As was said pkg_info -Q  will perform a search for you.
There are some websites where you can browse the ports tree in 
catagory form. Keep in mind though that they are showing the ports for
-current and some may not be available in -release.
http://ports.su
http://openports.se

> 
> Thanks.

Re: Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Michael McConville]

Implausibility wrote:
> I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the
> directory structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a
> more friendly way to search for and discover new/interesting ports
> packages, I'd appreciate a link.

'pkg_info -Q $YOUR_QUERY' will show package names containing
$YOUR_QUERY.

Getting started with an OpenBSD Desktop...

[Implausibility]

Hi.

I have a few old ThinkPads here, and I'd like to explore getting OpenBSD
running as a lightweight desktop computer.

I don't need a lot, I spend most of my time at a shell prompt, but I'm
thinking I need a better window manager, possibly Firefox (or a recommended
lightweight alternative) and any invaluable X-based utilities.

I've had trouble getting the laptop connected to my local WiFi network,
despite having compatible cards and a straightforward security config (WPA2),
despite having followed the documentation.  If there's a
network-connection-manager GUI available, that would be nice, but isn't
essential.

I know how to install things via the ports, but traversing the directory
structure to find useful packages is painful.  If there's a more friendly way
to search for and discover new/interesting ports packages, I'd appreciate a
link.

Thanks.

Re: OpenBSD desktop

[Tomas Bodzar]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Robert Connolly  wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have heard on IRC that I am running a vulnerable version of Firefox,
> despite running 'pkg_add -a -u', on my OpenBSD 5.2 system. The advice I got
> was to run snapshots, because OpenBSD does not have the human resources to
> maintain packages. I understand this is a problem, but I want to understand
> the best way of dealing with this problem.
>
> Am I expected to run 'pkg_add -a -u -n' daily, and then decide when to
> update to a -current snapshot and package tree? I am not being sarcastic...
> I have every intention of continuing to run OpenBSD, and I would like to
> know the best way of doing it.

On snapshots it's more easy. You do just upgrade from bsd.rd (like
regular install), after reboot sysmerge -s -x is your friend, check of
current.html in FAQ and pkg_add -ui. Completely binary process which
takes about 15 minutes or so. It depends on you how often you will do
that if every week, every day, once a month or so. Of course if you
will see during install of package some weird messages about libraries
or something else then it's good sign of need for update :-)

>
> Thank you.

Re: OpenBSD desktop

[Janne Johansson]

2012/12/17 Robert Connolly :
> Hello.
>
> I have heard on IRC that I am running a vulnerable version of Firefox,
> despite running 'pkg_add -a -u', on my OpenBSD 5.2 system. The advice I got
> was to run snapshots, because OpenBSD does not have the human resources to
> maintain packages. I understand this is a problem, but I want to understand
> the best way of dealing with this problem.
>
> Am I expected to run 'pkg_add -a -u -n' daily, and then decide when to
> update to a -current snapshot and package tree? I am not being sarcastic...
> I have every intention of continuing to run OpenBSD, and I would like to
> know the best way of doing it.

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#NoFun
That one pretty much describes the expectations.
Either go with release, or go with the flow. Doing just-update-ports
and keeping an old installation of the OS will not work for long.

-- 
 To our sweethearts and wives.  May they never meet. -- 19th century toast

OpenBSD desktop

[Robert Connolly]

Hello.

I have heard on IRC that I am running a vulnerable version of Firefox, 
despite running 'pkg_add -a -u', on my OpenBSD 5.2 system. The advice I 
got was to run snapshots, because OpenBSD does not have the human 
resources to maintain packages. I understand this is a problem, but I 
want to understand the best way of dealing with this problem.


Am I expected to run 'pkg_add -a -u -n' daily, and then decide when to 
update to a -current snapshot and package tree? I am not being 
sarcastic... I have every intention of continuing to run OpenBSD, and I 
would like to know the best way of doing it.


Thank you.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Nick Guenther]

On 10/4/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/4/07, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > To the original poster: can you get your friend to ask about these
> > things for us? *Did* Yahoo India buy the OpenBSD discs or did it just
> > download them? Is there a large OpenBSD presence or is the desktop an
> > odd one-off installed by the last random intern who showed up there?
> >
>
> From the latest info received.
>
> All around him he noticed OpenBSD Systems.
> He is not sure but he thinks they have a good no. of OpenBSD
> installations there.

Intriguing.

> Presently he is struggling with "cp ( especially the -r option )" "chmod" etc.
> He does not understand why he has to type "sudo" infront of most commands.
>
> And the Sudden change from "Dreamweaver" to "vi" has been devastating.
> Literally and figuratively it was going from full white to full black
> ( not just background color )


Oh, so is he coming from Windows to Unix? How painful.
And he teased *you*?

> But he seems to be determined.
> We are getting a lot of Interstate calls from him.
> Some times vi does not quit with just :wq you need to type :wq! and so on :-(
>
> And things like that :-

Hah! Nice.

-Nick

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Siju George]

On 10/4/07, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To the original poster: can you get your friend to ask about these
> things for us? *Did* Yahoo India buy the OpenBSD discs or did it just
> download them? Is there a large OpenBSD presence or is the desktop an
> odd one-off installed by the last random intern who showed up there?
>

>From the latest info received.

All around him he noticed OpenBSD Systems.
He is not sure but he thinks they have a good no. of OpenBSD
installations there.

Presently he is struggling with "cp ( especially the -r option )" "chmod" etc.
He does not understand why he has to type "sudo" infront of most commands.

And the Sudden change from "Dreamweaver" to "vi" has been devastating.
Literally and figuratively it was going from full white to full black
( not just background color )

But he seems to be determined.
We are getting a lot of Interstate calls from him.
Some times vi does not quit with just :wq you need to type :wq! and so on :-(

And things like that :-

Kind regards

Siju

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Siju George]

On 10/4/07, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/3/07, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 06:28:52PM +0200, Paul de Weerd wrote:
> > >
> > > I think the project is always in need of money. There's no steady
> > > supply of incoming cash except for the (dropping) CD sales etc. Always
> > > try to persuade your employer to donate if they're using OpenBSD or
> > > OpenBSD-derived software (eg, OpenSSH) (of course, you can also try to
> > > persuade your employer if he doesn't use OpenBSD-code, the more
> > > donations the better, methinks ;)
> >
> > Do the other OSs/Distros that include OpenSSH make any contributions?
> >
> [snip]
>
> Overall: Yes.
>
> To the original poster: can you get your friend to ask about these
> things for us? *Did* Yahoo India buy the OpenBSD discs or did it just
> download them? Is there a large OpenBSD presence or is the desktop an
> odd one-off installed by the last random intern who showed up there?
>

Sure :-)

He just joined might take some time for him to find that out.

Kind Regards

Siju

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Martin Schröder]

2007/10/3, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 10/3/07, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Do the other OSs/Distros that include OpenSSH make any contributions?
> >
> [snip]
>
> Overall: Yes.

So the second sentence at http://www.openssh.org/donations.html is wrong?

Best
   Martin

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Martin Schröder]

2007/10/3, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Do the other OSs/Distros that include OpenSSH make any contributions?

Do your research. "OpenSSH has no wealthy sponsors, nor a business
model. In fact, no Commercial Unix or Linux vendor has ever given our
project a cent."

Best
   Martin

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Nick Guenther]

On 10/3/07, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 06:28:52PM +0200, Paul de Weerd wrote:
> >
> > I think the project is always in need of money. There's no steady
> > supply of incoming cash except for the (dropping) CD sales etc. Always
> > try to persuade your employer to donate if they're using OpenBSD or
> > OpenBSD-derived software (eg, OpenSSH) (of course, you can also try to
> > persuade your employer if he doesn't use OpenBSD-code, the more
> > donations the better, methinks ;)
>
> Do the other OSs/Distros that include OpenSSH make any contributions?
>
[snip]

Overall: Yes.

To the original poster: can you get your friend to ask about these
things for us? *Did* Yahoo India buy the OpenBSD discs or did it just
download them? Is there a large OpenBSD presence or is the desktop an
odd one-off installed by the last random intern who showed up there?

-Nick

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 06:28:52PM +0200, Paul de Weerd wrote:
> 
> I think the project is always in need of money. There's no steady
> supply of incoming cash except for the (dropping) CD sales etc. Always
> try to persuade your employer to donate if they're using OpenBSD or
> OpenBSD-derived software (eg, OpenSSH) (of course, you can also try to
> persuade your employer if he doesn't use OpenBSD-code, the more
> donations the better, methinks ;)

Do the other OSs/Distros that include OpenSSH make any contributions?  

The one I'm familiar with is Debian.  Its well funded.  It uses OpenSSH,
OpenSSL, and OpenBSD's lpr, plus who knows what else here and there.

I understand the moral bind that OBSD is in.  For its own reasons, it
wants to be able to interoperate with other OSs so it needs to create
OpenSSH and have other OSs adopt it.  However, it costs money to produce
and mainatin yet a non-BSD licence would preclude its inclusion in some
OSs and many/most hardware devices.  

I guess the closest analogy is the educational one.  The BSD licence is
a University licence.  Universities are funded by governments
(sometimes) and foundations.  The foundatations get the money from
corporate sponsorship and alumni.  For OBSD, the alumni are all the
people using OBSD products; they earn money with it so they should send
money back.  University alumni earn money with their degrees so are
asked (repeatedly!!!) for money.  

Think of watching a TV show on PBS in/out-of the USA.  There's the
Pledge Drive that interrupts the movie, and there's the "This program
made possible in part by contributions from...".  

Perhaps the top 10 donors to OBSD at each release should be included in
a MajorDonors.txt file on the ftp and CDs and on the inside cover
package, and included in the install /etc/motd file.  The latter can be
changed by the end-user but at least it will be seen once.

If a major donor wanted to fund a whole 6-month cycle, their name could
go on the CD cover:  "OpenBSD 4.6 release cycle funded entirely by the
acme tire and widget company.  Proceeds from these CDs goes towards
future releases."  Or something.

---

There's also the business ethics issue.  I have a nephew working on a
business degree and they don't have time in 5 years (he's doing two
degrees at once) for philosophy or ethics.

If I was buiding a new widget that needed an OS, I'd say:  It will take
3 years and $10 million to create an OS in-house that I'd be comfortable
putting my name on the box.  Or, I could put OpenBSD on it right now.
I'll put OpenBSD on it, lable the box "Powered by OpenBSD" and give
OpenBSD $2 per box.  Sure, it should be $50 per box but the boxes only
sell for $25, and $9.99 on sale, and cost the store only $8.99.  

Its difficult for ethical companies to compete ethically with unethical
companies when everything that everyone is doing is perfectly legal, yet
alone if some to illegeal things that aren't prosecuted.

Doug.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 11:23:03AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> On 10/3/07, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 10/2/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > As he Joined Yahoo Bangalore to his horror he found that the desktop
> > > > assigned to him Booted OpenBSD. As soon as he mildly recovered fromhis
> > > > shock he called me up to ask me what to do with it now? LOL
> > > > I thought they used Linux and FreeBSD in yahoo and even in my remotest
> > > > thought did it ever occour that this guy would pay for his dis respect
> > > > to openBSD ;-)
> >
> > I wonder how much they contribute or how many CDs they buy.
> 
> True, but you don't have to be so instantly bitter. Remember, we want
> quality code running everywhere we can get it, and we claim (by our
> choice of license) that we want full freedom to do anything you want
> with it...
> 
> But this can be kept in mind for the next time the project needs 10,000$

I'm not bitter; it was a genuine question given the recent thread about
making a DVD.  Does yahoo buy one/several CDs and install on all their
desktops or do they pay $50 per desktop.  How many desktops do they
have?

As for the next time the project needs $10,000, I thought that it could
always use $10,000.  

A release is made every 6 months.  How much does each release cycle cost
including keeping the lights on, bandwidth and hardware running, new
equipment to test out new drivers, etc?

Doug.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Paul de Weerd]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 11:23:03AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
| But this can be kept in mind for the next time the project needs 10,000$

I think the project is always in need of money. There's no steady
supply of incoming cash except for the (dropping) CD sales etc. Always
try to persuade your employer to donate if they're using OpenBSD or
OpenBSD-derived software (eg, OpenSSH) (of course, you can also try to
persuade your employer if he doesn't use OpenBSD-code, the more
donations the better, methinks ;)

Cheers,

Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

--
>[<++>-]<+++.>+++[<-->-]<.>+++[<+
+++>-]<.>++[<>-]<+.--.[-]
 http://www.weirdnet.nl/

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Nick Guenther]

On 10/3/07, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:10:59AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> > On 10/2/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > One of my best friends who was working with me for about 5 years
> > > recently got job in Bangalore.
> > > He had repeatedly turned down my offer to teach him OpenBSD and even
> > > teased me at times :-)
> > >
> > > As he Joined Yahoo Bangalore to his horror he found that the desktop
> > > assigned to him Booted OpenBSD. As soon as he mildly recovered fromhis
> > > shock he called me up to ask me what to do with it now? LOL
> > >
> > > I thought they used Linux and FreeBSD in yahoo and even in my remotest
> > > thought did it ever occour that this guy would pay for his dis respect
> > > to openBSD ;-)
> >
> > !
> > ridiculous!
> > That's so awesomely happy.
>
> I wonder how much they contribute or how many CDs they buy.

True, but you don't have to be so instantly bitter. Remember, we want
quality code running everywhere we can get it, and we claim (by our
choice of license) that we want full freedom to do anything you want
with it...

But this can be kept in mind for the next time the project needs 10,000$

-Nick

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:10:59AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > One of my best friends who was working with me for about 5 years
> > recently got job in Bangalore.
> > He had repeatedly turned down my offer to teach him OpenBSD and even
> > teased me at times :-)
> >
> > As he Joined Yahoo Bangalore to his horror he found that the desktop
> > assigned to him Booted OpenBSD. As soon as he mildly recovered fromhis
> > shock he called me up to ask me what to do with it now? LOL
> >
> > I thought they used Linux and FreeBSD in yahoo and even in my remotest
> > thought did it ever occour that this guy would pay for his dis respect
> > to openBSD ;-)
> 
> !
> ridiculous!
> That's so awesomely happy.

I wonder how much they contribute or how many CDs they buy.  

Doug.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Nick Guenther]

On 10/2/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> One of my best friends who was working with me for about 5 years
> recently got job in Bangalore.
> He had repeatedly turned down my offer to teach him OpenBSD and even
> teased me at times :-)
>
> As he Joined Yahoo Bangalore to his horror he found that the desktop
> assigned to him Booted OpenBSD. As soon as he mildly recovered fromhis
> shock he called me up to ask me what to do with it now? LOL
>
> I thought they used Linux and FreeBSD in yahoo and even in my remotest
> thought did it ever occour that this guy would pay for his dis respect
> to openBSD ;-)

!
ridiculous!
That's so awesomely happy.

-Nick

OpenBSD Desktop sighted in Yahoo Bangalore, India

[Siju George]

Hi,

One of my best friends who was working with me for about 5 years
recently got job in Bangalore.
He had repeatedly turned down my offer to teach him OpenBSD and even
teased me at times :-)

As he Joined Yahoo Bangalore to his horror he found that the desktop
assigned to him Booted OpenBSD. As soon as he mildly recovered fromhis
shock he called me up to ask me what to do with it now? LOL

I thought they used Linux and FreeBSD in yahoo and even in my remotest
thought did it ever occour that this guy would pay for his dis respect
to openBSD ;-)

kind Regards

Siju

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Derek Tracy]

Now that I would have to see. Could you do up a quick sketch in ascii?

On 11/13/05, Robert Szasz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Add a cutout disk partitioning sliderule! Ok, perhaps not, but now that I
> think about it, that would be a nice geeky tool to have. If anyone else is
> interested, I might just make one up.
>
> On 11/12/05, Derek Tracy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I have to agree, Gentoo's install docs are some of the best out there
> > and
> > will allow just about anybody to install OpenBSD.
> >
> > On 11/12/05, bofh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 11/8/05, Joe S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In general, this is a good start. One more piece of advice, try not
> > to
> > > > make the document too narrative, but rather just put in what the
> > user
> > > > needs to know to get a desktop working.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One piece of advice, take a look at gentoo's install docs. Just enough
> > > handholding, but with enough background explanation so that a user
> > knows
> > > what's going on.
> > >
> > > -Tai
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -
> > Derek Tracy
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > -
> >
> >
>


--
-
Derek Tracy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Derek Tracy]

I have to agree, Gentoo's install docs are some of the best out there and
will allow just about anybody to install OpenBSD.

On 11/12/05, bofh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 11/8/05, Joe S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > In general, this is a good start. One more piece of advice, try not to
> > make the document too narrative, but rather just put in what the user
> > needs to know to get a desktop working.
>
>
>
> One piece of advice, take a look at gentoo's install docs. Just enough
> handholding, but with enough background explanation so that a user knows
> what's going on.
>
> -Tai
>
>


--
-
Derek Tracy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[bofh]

On 11/8/05, Joe S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In general, this is a good start. One more piece of advice, try not to
> make the document too narrative, but rather just put in what the user
> needs to know to get a desktop working.



One piece of advice, take a look at gentoo's install docs. Just enough
handholding, but with enough background explanation so that a user knows
what's going on.

-Tai

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Alexander Hall]

Lawrence Teo wrote:

Roy Morris wrote:



May I suggest shortening the tarball extraction command in the
"Installing Open Office 2.0" section...

 From this:

   A. gzip -d Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar.gz; \
   tar -xvf Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar

To this:

   A. gzip -cd Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar.gz | tar xvf -


Why not go all the way:

tar -xzvf Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar.gz

(though it's late now and I might be missing something)

/Alexander

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Lawrence Teo]

Roy Morris wrote:
Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand 
placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf


Great work!

May I suggest shortening the tarball extraction command in the
"Installing Open Office 2.0" section...

From this:

   A. gzip -d Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar.gz; \
tar -xvf Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar

To this:

   A. gzip -cd Ooo_2.0.0_LinuxIntel_install.tar.gz | tar xvf -

Less to type, less likely for a newbie user to make mistakes.

And all instances of "Open Office" and "OpenOffice" should be
"OpenOffice.org" if you want to keep things standardized.

Once again, great start!

Lawrence

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Don Boling]

Johan P. Lindstrvm wrote:


Great work, though you may want to have a peek at rotating your pdf, it's in
landscape format.


// Johan
  

Hmmm, It opened and printed in protrait for me.

d

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Johan P . Lindström]

On 11/9/05, Roy Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Roy Morris wrote:
>
> >>>I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
> >>>them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
> >>>If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
> >>>
>
>>>www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>Roy
> >>>
> >>>
> Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand
> placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at
>
>
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
>
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
>
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
>
> Cheers,
> Roy
>
>

Great work, though you may want to have a peek at rotating your pdf, it's in
landscape format.


// Johan

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roland Dominguez]

Great document!
Are there any suggested partition sizes for the desktop environment?

I'll try this out on a dell laptop once its finished with some work
it's doing.

roland

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Adam Douglas]

I think your doing a great job. It's a good start. Here's my 2 cents on
what I would suggest doing.

1. Add page numbering (i.e. 1 of 2)
2. Add author/contact info.
3. Add version of document and revision # or date.

Also I noticed you updated the document since the first post. This is
great however looks like the PDF version is completely shot. Why do I
say this, because there is no visual structuring of the document like
you had before. I understand having the other formats but what the heck
is the point of having a PDF if one doesn't have those advantages? It's
my 2 cents do what you want with it because it's your document no one
else's.

Best,
Adam

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

steven mestdagh wrote:


On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 02:41:05PM -0500, Roy Morris wrote:
 

Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand 
placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at 
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
   



This document is no good. A lot of relevant info is missing, and a lot of
useless info is given. And it's also written in a "do this, then that,
but don't think" style.
 


Thanks for the constructive remarks Steven, the first document
I wrote was too long so a paint by numbers system
was better I thought, obviously you don't :)


For example, your part about system tweaks and linux emulation, do you
really think some newbie user will understand this? Besides it works only
on i386. You also got PKG_PATH wrong. And you can just answer yes during
installation to have ntpd started. Using cdrecord with a .tgz? Have you
tried that?
 


The newbie user is not supposed to understand it all, or they
wouldn't need a document to get a desktop up and running.
What do you mean PKG_PATH is wrong? this was copied verbatim
from my system, and it works. .. As for trying
to decide if someone may or may not have done something
during installation (ntpd), I think it's best to assume they didn't and ask
them to change it. compat_linux is i386 that's true. I guess I should
mention that .. thanks!



Your section about X11 is very incomplete. For instance, you mention
.xinitrc, later (even in a totally different section) xdm_flags, total
chaos. You suggest people to set DefaultDepth 24, but you don't even say
what this is.
 


My section on X11 is incomplete as I am not trying to write a
book on X11, just get them moving. I will fix a valid point you
make about .xinitrc .. it should be .xsession. I use both depending
on if I am using xdm that day :)

_I_ know that DefaultDepth 24 is (was at one time) required for xdm,
so I ask them to enable it. I have updated the document based on
other feedback warning they need to be able to support it.


Double check what you write, and ask yourself whether it is well
organized and can be understood by your target audience (that's windows
users, according to the title!) ...
 


Well organized and understood.. hmmm not sure either are
completely true, but I will continue to strive to meet those goals.

Thanks for you valued input.
Roy

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[steven mestdagh]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 02:41:05PM -0500, Roy Morris wrote:
> Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand 
> placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at 
> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

This document is no good. A lot of relevant info is missing, and a lot of
useless info is given. And it's also written in a "do this, then that,
but don't think" style.

For example, your part about system tweaks and linux emulation, do you
really think some newbie user will understand this? Besides it works only
on i386. You also got PKG_PATH wrong. And you can just answer yes during
installation to have ntpd started. Using cdrecord with a .tgz? Have you
tried that?

Your section about X11 is very incomplete. For instance, you mention
.xinitrc, later (even in a totally different section) xdm_flags, total
chaos. You suggest people to set DefaultDepth 24, but you don't even say
what this is.

Double check what you write, and ask yourself whether it is well
organized and can be understood by your target audience (that's windows
users, according to the title!) ...

-- 
steven

Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

Fred Crowson wrote:


Roy Morris wrote:



Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes 
suggestedand placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Cheers,
Roy


Hi Roy,

Good document - would it be worth mentioning sudo(8) for all the root 
tasks?


After using adduser(8) to create an account, just add the following 
line to the sudoers file using visudo(8):


username   ALL=(ALL) ALL

HTH

Fred



You're most correct Fred. I will add this to the list of things to
change/add

Thanks!
Roy

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Fred Crowson]

Roy Morris wrote:


Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand 
placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Cheers,
Roy


Hi Roy,

Good document - would it be worth mentioning sudo(8) for all the root tasks?

After using adduser(8) to create an account, just add the following line 
to the sudoers file using visudo(8):


username   ALL=(ALL) ALL

HTH

Fred

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

Roy Morris wrote:


I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy
 

Thanks to all those that replied. I have made the changes suggestedand placed the document as {ps,pdf,txt} at 


www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.txt
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.ps
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Cheers,
Roy

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Rickard Dahlstrand]

Roy Morris wrote:

> I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
> them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
> If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
>
> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
>
> Thanks
> Roy
>

Great effort!

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[J.C. Roberts]

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:20:02 -0800, Joe S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Roy Morris wrote:
>> I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
>> them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
>> If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
>> 
>> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Roy
>> 
>> 
>1. I'd get rid of the rdate cron job and just turn on openntpd. It's 
>much more efficient, IMO, and you can easily "set it and forget it."

Though I agree for most connections, anyone (still) in a situation where
they are paying per minute fees for connect time would be hosed.

Noting the usage of rdate for those who are not always connected in
addition to openntpd for those who are would be a better approach.

JCR

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

Darrin Chandler wrote:


Will H. Backman wrote:


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
  


Of
 


Roy Morris
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:38 PM
To: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: OpenBSD Desktop Document

I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy
  



How about not making it a PFD.


 


Thanks for not making *me* say it. ;)


I am going to reformat this document to be text only, and export
versions in ps, pdf, txt, html ... that outta cover it.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Darrin Chandler]

Will H. Backman wrote:


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
   


Of
 


Roy Morris
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:38 PM
To: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: OpenBSD Desktop Document

I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy
   



How about not making it a PFD.


 


Thanks for not making *me* say it. ;)

--
Darrin Chandler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stilyagin.com/

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

Joe S wrote:


Roy Morris wrote:


I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
openntpd
www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy


1. I'd get rid of the rdate cron job and just turn on openntpd. It's 
much more efficient, IMO, and you can easily "set it and forget it."


seems reasonable.



2. I wouldn't add static host mappings to .ssh/config. I would just 
add them to /etc/hosts since that is what it's made for.


This assumes that everywhere you go you use the same logon name, in my 
case I don't. I will mention using either or as it suites the user.




3. Add the option of creating a tar file for backing up. You can just 
burn this to cd or copy (scp, sftp, ftp, nfs, smb) this to another 
system.


Absolutely, all roads lead to Rome. I will advise the reader they have 
the option.




In general, this is a good start. One more piece of advice, try not to 
make the document too narrative, but rather just put in what the user 
needs to know to get a desktop working.


Might be good to update for 3.8 too.

-joe


Agreed. I thought it might be to long winded, I will rework it. The doc 
is just a starting point for me
I am going to drop in printing and plan on installing 3.8 to check for 
differences.


Cheers
Thanks.

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Peter Hessler]

don't use rdate, `echo 'ntpd_flags=""' >> /etc/rc.conf.local`  it gives 
the user better time, and has less damaging effects on the pool.ntp.org 
members.


On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 02:38:15PM -0500, Roy Morris wrote:
:I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
:them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
:If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
:
:www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
:
:Thanks
:Roy
:

-- 
Oh Dad!  We're ALL Devo!

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Joe S]

Roy Morris wrote:

I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy


1. I'd get rid of the rdate cron job and just turn on openntpd. It's 
much more efficient, IMO, and you can easily "set it and forget it."


2. I wouldn't add static host mappings to .ssh/config. I would just add 
them to /etc/hosts since that is what it's made for.


3. Add the option of creating a tar file for backing up. You can just 
burn this to cd or copy (scp, sftp, ftp, nfs, smb) this to another system.


In general, this is a good start. One more piece of advice, try not to 
make the document too narrative, but rather just put in what the user 
needs to know to get a desktop working.


Might be good to update for 3.8 too.

-joe

Re: OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Will H. Backman]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Roy Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:38 PM
> To: misc@openbsd.org
> Subject: OpenBSD Desktop Document
> 
> I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
> them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
> If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.
> 
> www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf
> 
> Thanks
> Roy

How about not making it a PFD.

OpenBSD Desktop Document

[Roy Morris]

I have been working on a document for newbies that helps
them put together a basic/functional desktop under OpenBSD.
If anyone has time, I'd like feed back.

www.openalternatives.com/OpenBSD/OpenBSD-Desktop.pdf

Thanks
Roy