Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Florin Andrei]

Andrew Stevens wrote:
> 
> I would *love* to get a solid 8-16 hours a week in on mpeg2enc/mplex like I 
> used to years ago but I now have (in no particular order): a wife, a young 
> son (cute!), a day-job doing equally interesting SW engineering, a house, and 
> enough money to indulge my motorcycle-racing habit.

Ironical comment regarding "still a young fellow" forgiven after finding 
you like bikes too. ;-) Keep the rubber side down!

> If I could find an interested person wanting to take over as 'owner' I'd 
> gladly invest time in explanation/support to do a proper hand over.  So far 
> no interest.  Hopefully (I work from home nowadays) I'll have a bit more time 
> this winter and push mpeg2enc forward again!

I get it. Not enough people contributing to the project.  It's a 
very nice application thou'. :-(

-- 
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Bernhard Praschinger]

Hallo

>>  The author/maintainer of mpeg2enc has obtained a modicum of 
>>  development/free time and has checked in, today, changes to
>>  mpeg2enc that restore (or should restore ;)) normal operation
>>  and produce non corrupted video.
>>
>>  So, do a 'cvs update', rebuild and commence testing.
> I said this before - you guys should make releases way more often. Very 
> few people are going to track the CVS.
If everything goes well, I can create a RC 3 next weekend.
And that would be worth testing.

auf hoffentlich bald,

Berni the Chaos of Woodquarter

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Andrew Stevens]

Hi Andrei,


> Well, yeah, but code doesn't change all by itself - there are people
> making the decisions, etc. Basically, it looks like mjpegtools has a too
> long development cycle. All the good stuff is always in CVS, and it
> stays there for years.

I guess you're probably still a young fellow ... ;-). As ever in SW 
engineering its not the *deciding* (despite what countless books for 
non-coding project managers and bosses might lead you to believe) its the 
*doing*.   And *doing* needs oodles of time.   When I was young(er) and still 
working as an Academic I could really motor along on my open-source projects.  
Seriously, as you get older you not only have less time but also more money 
to indulge in other distractions.

I would *love* to get a solid 8-16 hours a week in on mpeg2enc/mplex like I 
used to years ago but I now have (in no particular order): a wife, a young 
son (cute!), a day-job doing equally interesting SW engineering, a house, and 
enough money to indulge my motorcycle-racing habit. If I'm honest another 
factor is that technology has moved on and I simply no longer *need* to 
compress recorded video for myself anymore (all MPEG-2 DTV, soon H.264 HDTV).

Longer term the future for 'on-computer' video is clearly with H.264.  MPEG-2 
lives primarily so folks can burn standard DVDs.  Its like (S)VCD.   2-3 
years back a hot topic.  Now... nil interest. 

If I could find an interested person wanting to take over as 'owner' I'd 
gladly invest time in explanation/support to do a proper hand over.  So far 
no interest.  Hopefully (I work from home nowadays) I'll have a bit more time 
this winter and push mpeg2enc forward again!


cheers,

Andrew


-- 

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Erdingerstrasse 23
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Stefan M. Fendt]

Am Montag, den 05.11.2007, 22:45 -0800 schrieb Florin Andrei:

> Oh wait, there's editing. Hm, I've heard that Cinelerra can do that, and 
> perhaps Kdenlive too.

Erm, you won't believe it: blender can do this, too... (And I personally
liked it much more than Cinelerra... it does not crash so often).

cu
Stefan


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Florin Andrei]

Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Nov 2007, Florin Andrei wrote:
> 
>> I said this before - you guys should make releases way more often. Very 
> 
>   Of what?  Broken software?   No sense doing a release for the last
>   year or whatever since it was broken.  And now it _may_ be fixed
>   and it's time for testing, not a release.

Well, yeah, but code doesn't change all by itself - there are people 
making the decisions, etc. Basically, it looks like mjpegtools has a too 
long development cycle. All the good stuff is always in CVS, and it 
stays there for years.

>> BTW, if I'm using 1.8.0 (default on Ubuntu), what do I get if I upgrade 
>> to 1.9.0 RC1?
> 
>   The last known working encoder perhaps.  I think it was after RC1 
>   that things broke  rather badly.  Number of the filters were enhanced
>   and I think the deinterlacing and denoising software was heavily
>   revised.

I actually got RC2 and so far so good, I can generate DVD-compatible 
MPEG2 with it.

Oh, look, there's High Definition support. :-) Pretty cool.
Once there are enough HD burners on the market, and there's a way to 
author HD disks on Linux, I'm sold. Capturing HDV is already doable with 
dvgrab, and it looks like mjpegtools can process an HD stream.
Oh wait, there's editing. Hm, I've heard that Cinelerra can do that, and 
perhaps Kdenlive too.

-- 
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007, Florin Andrei wrote:

> I said this before - you guys should make releases way more often. Very 

Of what?  Broken software?   No sense doing a release for the last
year or whatever since it was broken.  And now it _may_ be fixed
and it's time for testing, not a release.

> few people are going to track the CVS.

Then I guess they're not the folks that should be testing unreleased 
and possibly buggy software, right?  That's more of a developer 
(or development assisting) activity and that's what CVS is for.

A release means that testing has been done .  Testing is done out of
cvs and not a release.

> BTW, if I'm using 1.8.0 (default on Ubuntu), what do I get if I upgrade 
> to 1.9.0 RC1?

The last known working encoder perhaps.  I think it was after RC1 
that things broke  rather badly.  Number of the filters were enhanced
and I think the deinterlacing and denoising software was heavily
revised.

Now if you get the current CVS there's memory leaks fixed, further
revisions  / rewrites of the utils/filters.  Build support for OSX
10.5 (done just a couple days ago ;)) and lots more - I don't keep
a list in mind (that's what CVS is for ;))

Cheers,
Steven


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Florin Andrei]

Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>   Good News.
> 
>   The author/maintainer of mpeg2enc has obtained a modicum of 
>   development/free time and has checked in, today, changes to
>   mpeg2enc that restore (or should restore ;)) normal operation
>   and produce non corrupted video.
> 
>   So, do a 'cvs update', rebuild and commence testing.

I said this before - you guys should make releases way more often. Very 
few people are going to track the CVS.

BTW, if I'm using 1.8.0 (default on Ubuntu), what do I get if I upgrade 
to 1.9.0 RC1?

-- 
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, Andrew Stevens wrote:

> $229... inexpensive ... cough cough.  I've got MIPS and hard-disk space up the

Sure - compared to the ADVC300 or something like the Aja IO/LA
(http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io_IoLAD.html but can do everything
from 10bit uncompressed to DVCPRO50).

Think of the expenditure as a new accessory for the motorbike ;)

> wazzoo but my living-room box has got firewire. I was looking more a 
> recommendation for a straight analog capture card $50-$80 range

If it has firewire then you're set.

And an external ieee1394 converter box can be used on systems
without PCI slots (and those are becoming harder to find as PCIe
takes over).  If you have another system, a notebook for example,
you simple move the external converter box over to the notebook.
Try that with a PCI card :)

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Bernhard Praschinger]

Andrew Stevens wrote:
>>> Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that
>>> works well with mjpegtools?
>>  For inexpensive nothing beats a Canopus ADVC-110 (the -300 is good
>>  but I've come to the conclusion it's not worth the extra money over
>>  the 110).  Use dvgrab/kino to do the acquisition and editing.
> 
> $229... inexpensive ... cough cough.  I've got MIPS and hard-disk space up 
> the 
> wazzoo but my living-room box has got firewire. I was looking more a 
> recommendation for a straight analog capture card $50-$80 range
Replace the LML with a used DC10/30/... then ebay.de ist your friend then.

The thing is that the PCI based solutions will vanish when you don't 
have PCI in the mainboards any more.

On the other had at work we still !buy! new computers with ISA
So it could be that the cards follow us for some more years.

auf hoffentlich bald,

Berni the Chaos of Woodquarter

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gz/bernhard

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Andrew Stevens]

> > Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that
> > works well with mjpegtools?
>
>   For inexpensive nothing beats a Canopus ADVC-110 (the -300 is good
>   but I've come to the conclusion it's not worth the extra money over
>   the 110).  Use dvgrab/kino to do the acquisition and editing.

$229... inexpensive ... cough cough.  I've got MIPS and hard-disk space up the 
wazzoo but my living-room box has got firewire. I was looking more a 
recommendation for a straight analog capture card $50-$80 range

cheers,

Andrew


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Germany

Home: +49 8121 883672
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Stefan M. Fendt]

Am Freitag, den 02.11.2007, 10:22 -0700 schrieb Steven M. Schultz:

>   For inexpensive nothing beats a Canopus ADVC-110 (the -300 is good

ah, I did overlook this one... so my response was obsolete... :-)

cu
Stefan


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Stefan M. Fendt]

Am Freitag, den 02.11.2007, 13:30 +0100 schrieb Andrew Stevens:

> Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that works 
> well with mjpegtools?

I have an Canopus ADVC-110 here. There is nothing out there which can
beat it. (Not even the -300). But it is *external*. Just connected to a
PC/Mac with IEEE-1394 and capture with dvgrab.

cu
Stefan


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Bernhard Praschinger]

Hallo

> LML33 support seems to have died in recent 2.6 kernels and I appear to have 
> lent someone my old Philips SAA7134 reference board which I used to use for 
> Software-MJPEG capture (I used to work for Philips).
Hmm, have you tried loading each kernel module manual ?
Might be that the wrong module or option.

> Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that works 
> well with mjpegtools?
If you want to buy a new card, you should follow Stevens recommendation.

If you want a zoran based card. You get your "new" card on ebay.de There 
are a few offers ending this weekend.

auf hoffentlich bald,

Berni the Chaos of Woodquarter

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, Andrew Stevens wrote:

> Andrew here (mpeg2enc author).

> IF Steven and I are currently using the same test sample then the high q 

We are  - and yes it is rotten quality (tape was on the verge of
causing the VCR to mistrack).  The original 4:2:2 uncompressed data
was better but after the mjpeg-A downconvert (using mjpegtools ;))
the quality took another drop.

> bit-rate specified the quantisation level is reasonable.  Some of the 
> artefacts are in fact already present in the original MJPEG file.

The specific problem I had in mind was the blocks/squares that are
visible in the blue areas of the sky - those blocks are not visible
in the Bitvice encoded .m2v file.

HOWEVER - the new and improved mpeg2enc is vastly better than it was
2 days ago! 

I'll move on to better data now.

> LML33 support seems to have died in recent 2.6 kernels and I appear to have...

I think that's the general direction that MJPEG support's headed
as cards cease to work or be supported...

> Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that works 
> well with mjpegtools?

For inexpensive nothing beats a Canopus ADVC-110 (the -300 is good
but I've come to the conclusion it's not worth the extra money over
the 110).  Use dvgrab/kino to do the acquisition and editing.

the 'j' in mjpegtools is a bit out of place perhaps today :)

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Andrew Stevens]

Hi all,

Andrew here (mpeg2enc author).

>   Well, I thought so too at first.
>
>   But look at the "q=" lines!  If you're seeing "q=18" or so then
>   there are still issues to be resolved.

IF Steven and I are currently using the same test sample then the high q 
values (and rotten quality) turned out to be 'correct'.  The sample is very 
noisy and also as some H-sync issues which mean that at the (quite low) 
bit-rate specified the quantisation level is reasonable.  Some of the 
artefacts are in fact already present in the original MJPEG file.

However, if you spot any 'oddities' or unexpectedly bad encoding do drop me a 
line!  Better still your source material and encoding pipeline commands 
someplace I can download them so I can reproduce whats going on.  I'm 
currently a bit 'handicapped' in that I don't have any working video capture.

LML33 support seems to have died in recent 2.6 kernels and I appear to have 
lent someone my old Philips SAA7134 reference board which I used to use for 
Software-MJPEG capture (I used to work for Philips).

Anyone got a recommendation for an inexpensive analog capture card that works 
well with mjpegtools?

cheers,

Andrew

-- 

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Thursday, November 01, 2007 at 23:13:04 -0700
>>> mpeg2enc that restore (or should restore ;)) normal operation
>>> and produce non corrupted video.
>> 
>> Great!
> 
> Well, I thought so too at first.
> 
> But look at the "q=" lines!  If you're seeing "q=18" or so then
> there are still issues to be resolved.

Haven't seen those yet.

>> At first glance, all looks fine.
> 
> Hmmm, I encoded a test clip and it still looks awful :(   Better
> than before but still not good.

Apparently I don't have the right test clip.

>> Feeling better as well.
> 
> Changes are in progress but it'll be a while still I think before
> it's back to where I'd trust it.

At least things get moving again.

c
-- 
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen! --->> 

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, Christian Ebert wrote:

> > mpeg2enc that restore (or should restore ;)) normal operation
> > and produce non corrupted video.
> 
> Great!

Well, I thought so too at first.

But look at the "q=" lines!  If you're seeing "q=18" or so then
there are still issues to be resolved.

> At first glance, all looks fine.

Hmmm, I encoded a test clip and it still looks awful :(   Better
than before but still not good.

> Feeling better as well.

Changes are in progress but it'll be a while still I think before
it's back to where I'd trust it.

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] mpeg2enc is feeling better

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Thursday, November 01, 2007 at 12:55:23 -0700
> The author/maintainer of mpeg2enc has obtained a modicum of 
> development/free time and has checked in, today, changes to
> mpeg2enc that restore (or should restore ;)) normal operation
> and produce non corrupted video.

Great!

> So, do a 'cvs update', rebuild and commence testing.

At first glance, all looks fine.

Feeling better as well.

c
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