Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[T Rhodes]

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-8, damac2004 wrote:
> oh boy i have been pulling this car apart today and i see some carnage.  
> previous owner strikes again, there are all sorts of little things wrong with 
> this car.  
> 
> 
> to my horror i found the im shaft oring laying on top of the control arm and 
> something was flinging around behind the pulley so i knew it was loose, no 
> bolts.
> 
> 
> i guess all the interference on that side of the engine is what kept the im 
> pulley on but it seems to have shaved metal bits away from the timing belt 
> cover tin, water pump housing, etc.  i'm not understanding how that is even 
> possible since its toward the engine, i guess i will have to investigate 
> further to see if they are even the right parts.
> 
> 
> so im assuming the oil pressure alarm went off when it started to work itself 
> free and probably lost pressure at the im bearings, etc.  there is some 
> weeping oil but oil mark was still on dipstick.  i emptied it today and found 
> little metal specs.
> 
> 
> the gear end of the im shaft is messed up but it appears the  im bearings are 
> ok?  i have seen those go dry and crack and break apart and score.  these are 
> smooth so maybe i caught it early?  even when the alarm triggered there was 
> oil splashing up on the head, although i guess it was less for that minute i 
> ran the car to get off the road.
> 
> 
> what im wondering is there is a gear/cap that is held down into the block for 
> the oil pump to ride through and im shaft to mate with.  i was expecting it 
> to be broken up to but if you can see my picture it seems to be ok?  i don't 
> see a hint of the wear the im shaft has.  so was that made of a less strong 
> material?
> 
> 
> do i have all the parts, it just sits in its spot in the block and rides 
> metal on metal on the cap while bathed in oil?
> 
> 
> im thinking of just doing a timing belt job and fixing little things and 
> moving on hopefully the engine is ok?
> 
> 
> also should i put in a better oil pump and a windage tray while i have it 
> apart or is that needed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 9:03:23 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
> High pressure oil buzzer? In my twenty plus years of owning and working on 
> Mk2 16V VW's, this is the first time I've heard of the existence of a high 
> pressure oil alarm. At least with the 2.0 liter Motronic models, there isn't 
> even an audible low pressure oil pressure alarm. Only a red idiot lamp, which 
> illuminates when the ignition is switched on, and will disappear once the 
> engine starts. I believe that the warning lamp will illuminate if the oil 
> pressure drops below something like 7 - 10psi. An engine with worn main 
> bearings, or if the oil level is over about one quart low may cause the 
> warning lamp to flicker at idle, or possibly fully illuminate if things are 
> really bad. The other symptoms you describe could be caused by a lot of 
> issues. I suggest removing the upper timing belt cover and perform a thorough 
> visual inspection. Unfortunately, removing the lower timing belt cover 
> requires removing all the v- belts, as well as the crank shaft pulley and 
> crank damper. Also, I would check the main crank damper bolt. If that were to 
> loosen, the damper could start wobbeling, which may explain the shavings in 
> the bottom of the timing cover. There are many other possible explanations 
> for your issues, but things like this are difficult to troubleshooting via 
> textual explainations.
> 
> I wish you luck, and always feel free to ask questions as they arise.
> 
> ~Holland
> 
> On Dec 24, 2015 20:25, "damac2004"  wrote:
> 
> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on 
> using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect but 
> it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
> 
> 
> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
> buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
> motor.
> 
> 
> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started it 
> up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't know 
> if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping the same. 
>  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the racket 
> sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running only odd 
> thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft from the 
> lower plastic timing belt cover.  

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[damac2004]

oh boy i have been pulling this car apart today and i see some carnage. 
 previous owner strikes again, there are all sorts of little things wrong 
with this car.  

to my horror i found the im shaft oring laying on top of the control arm 
and something was flinging around behind the pulley so i knew it was loose, 
no bolts.

i guess all the interference on that side of the engine is what kept the im 
pulley on but it seems to have shaved metal bits away from the timing belt 
cover tin, water pump housing, etc.  i'm not understanding how that is even 
possible since its toward the engine, i guess i will have to investigate 
further to see if they are even the right parts.

so im assuming the oil pressure alarm went off when it started to work 
itself free and probably lost pressure at the im bearings, etc.  there is 
some weeping oil but oil mark was still on dipstick.  i emptied it today 
and found little metal specs.

the gear end of the im shaft is messed up but it appears the  im bearings 
are ok?  i have seen those go dry and crack and break apart and score. 
 these are smooth so maybe i caught it early?  even when the alarm 
triggered there was oil splashing up on the head, although i guess it was 
less for that minute i ran the car to get off the road.

what im wondering is there is a gear/cap that is held down into the block 
for the oil pump to ride through and im shaft to mate with.  i was 
expecting it to be broken up to but if you can see my picture it seems to 
be ok?  i don't see a hint of the wear the im shaft has.  so was that made 
of a less strong material?

do i have all the parts, it just sits in its spot in the block and rides 
metal on metal on the cap while bathed in oil?

im thinking of just doing a timing belt job and fixing little things and 
moving on hopefully the engine is ok?

also should i put in a better oil pump and a windage tray while i have it 
apart or is that needed?










On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 9:03:23 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> High pressure oil buzzer? In my twenty plus years of owning and working on 
> Mk2 16V VW's, this is the first time I've heard of the existence of a high 
> pressure oil alarm. At least with the 2.0 liter Motronic models, there 
> isn't even an audible low pressure oil pressure alarm. Only a red idiot 
> lamp, which illuminates when the ignition is switched on, and will 
> disappear once the engine starts. I believe that the warning lamp will 
> illuminate if the oil pressure drops below something like 7 - 10psi. An 
> engine with worn main bearings, or if the oil level is over about one quart 
> low may cause the warning lamp to flicker at idle, or possibly fully 
> illuminate if things are really bad. The other symptoms you describe could 
> be caused by a lot of issues. I suggest removing the upper timing belt 
> cover and perform a thorough visual inspection. Unfortunately, removing the 
> lower timing belt cover requires removing all the v- belts, as well as the 
> crank shaft pulley and crank damper. Also, I would check the main crank 
> damper bolt. If that were to loosen, the damper could start wobbeling, 
> which may explain the shavings in the bottom of the timing cover. There are 
> many other possible explanations for your issues, but things like this are 
> difficult to troubleshooting via textual explainations.
> I wish you luck, and always feel free to ask questions as they arise.
>
> ~Holland
> On Dec 24, 2015 20:25, "damac2004"  
> wrote:
>
>> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned 
>> on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
>> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect 
>> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>>
>> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure 
>> oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
>> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
>> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
>> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
>> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
>> motor.
>>
>> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started 
>> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't 
>> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping 
>> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the 
>> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was 

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Holland Phillips]

Ah, so there IS a high/low oil pressure buzzer. One of the first things I
did after purchasing my '92 GTI 16V back in '94, was to remove the relay
that has a little speaker in the top that is responsible for the door
ajar/seat belt not fastened chime. I bet that same device is used for the
oil pressure audible alerts. I have always hated it when I intentionally
leave a car door open with the key in the ignition, and the damn thing
insistantly dings away at me. With all the electronic nannys incorporated
into new vehicles, I would surely be driven insane. At least with the OBDII
port allowing you to tap into the various computers in all new vehicles,
you can disable some or all of those electronic irritants.
Oh, and another thing I did first off, was remove the relay that prevents
the car from starting unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed. Long
about the time that" feature" was first introduced, I had a mechanic friend
of mine tell me that starting a car while the clutch is engaged puts over a
hundred pounds of pressure on the end of the crank shaft, thus putting a
whole lot of pressure against the thrust washer/bearing, while there is no
oil pressure. Not a good thing if a looking for long engine life. Which
brings up another possibility for explaining the issues this guy is
experiencing. If the crank has developed a bunch of end play, that could
explain the noises, as well as the shavings he's seeing. To check for this,
first take a heavy soft faced mallet and smack the crank damper a few times
towards the transmission. Then use a large pry bar between the damper and
the timing cover and pry the crank away from the transmission. If it moves
more than about .1", that would indicate that the crank shaft thrust
bearing is worn, or completely destroyed. Just for reference, the usual
spec for crank end play when assembling a new engine, is between
.04 - .08", depending on the specific engine.
The saga continues...

~Holland
On Dec 26, 2015 07:58, "'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v" <mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>
wrote:

> Agreed that there are multiple issues.
>
> Most likely the noise from the drive belts is the insulator on the water
> pump pulley that, in OE configuration, ran 2 different pulleys for 2
> belts.  The pulleys were insulated from each other with a piece of cloth
> that wears over time allowing the pulleys to wobble slightly and create all
> kinds of noise.  The other issue could be the crank pulley - either the
> harmonic balancer or the pulley set.  What often happens is that the
> harmonic balancer loosens up with age and it starts to wobble which damages
> the crank nose.
>
> With regards to the oil pressure buzzer - that buzzer sounds for both high
> and low pressure.  Unless you're running a gauge, it's a guess as to
> whether the issue is high or low pressure.  I don't remember if pulling the
> leads will disable the buzzer but that's a good start - if I only could
> remember which sensor is which...
>
> The IM bearing is a sealed unit - I haven't had one fail but that doesn't
> mean it hasn't happened.  What colour are the shavings?  If they're shiny,
> chances are that they're metal but hopefully they're just plastic bits -
> from what I recall, the lower front cover on my car had a hole in it from
> the harmonic balancer.  It wasn't detrimental nor even audible, just
> annoying.
>
>
> On Friday, December 25, 2015 2:07 PM, "jlagn...@massed.net" <
> jlagn...@massed.net> wrote:
>
>
> You can use a mechanic's stethoscope, large screwdriver, large extension,
> or a hose to isolate the source of the sounds.
>
> --
> *From: *"Holland Phillips" <hollandphill...@gmail.com>
> *To: *mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
> *Sent: *Friday, December 25, 2015 12:43:31 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started
> loping, and screeching noises in engine bay
>
> I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the
> possibilities are numerous. Since the engine starts and runs, I would be
> looking at the rotating ancilliaries.
> Do any of the pulleys wobble? Since it sounds like someone removed the
> A/C, they may have messed up something with the v-belt system, depending on
> exactly how they removed the A/C compressor. Like did they leave all the
> pulleys in place, except the one on the compressor itself? As I recall, the
> A/C drive belt is a wider, heavier duty belt than the rest. Then I wonder
> if the power steering pump and water pump are turning freely. If one of
> those is frozen, or partially locked up, that could be a problem. As I
> mentioned before, trying to trouble shoot this via textual description is
> nigh on impossible. If any of one of our more knowledgeable members is
> located geographically close

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

['Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v]

The oil pressure buzzer is different from the seat belt warning alarm - the oil 
pressure buzzer is a "buzzer" that, well, buzzes.  The seat belt warning alarm 
plays "La Cucaracha" or, if you're bored and have a twisted sense of humor, it 
plays "La Cocka Roacha".  If you ever get an oil pressure warning, believe me, 
you'll know it - I can even hear it over my 100db exhaust system, granted, at 
idle only.  
Interesting to think about end play - the main reason why manual transmission 
cars have a neutral safety switch is more to protect idiot owners from running 
someone over when they start the car.  I always depress the clutch to start a 
car, even on an auto-tragic .  When I taught my friend's son to drive, my 
comment to him (which he repeats to me 20 years later) is "Always push the 
clutch in - assume that it's in gear, always".  

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 11:53 AM, Holland Phillips 
<hollandphill...@gmail.com> wrote:
 

 Ah, so there IS a high/low oil pressure buzzer. One of the first things I did 
after purchasing my '92 GTI 16V back in '94, was to remove the relay that has a 
little speaker in the top that is responsible for the door ajar/seat belt not 
fastened chime. I bet that same device is used for the oil pressure audible 
alerts. I have always hated it when I intentionally leave a car door open with 
the key in the ignition, and the damn thing insistantly dings away at me. With 
all the electronic nannys incorporated into new vehicles, I would surely be 
driven insane. At least with the OBDII port allowing you to tap into the 
various computers in all new vehicles, you can disable some or all of those 
electronic irritants.
Oh, and another thing I did first off, was remove the relay that prevents the 
car from starting unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed. Long about the 
time that" feature" was first introduced, I had a mechanic friend of mine tell 
me that starting a car while the clutch is engaged puts over a hundred pounds 
of pressure on the end of the crank shaft, thus putting a whole lot of pressure 
against the thrust washer/bearing, while there is no oil pressure. Not a good 
thing if a looking for long engine life. Which brings up another possibility 
for explaining the issues this guy is experiencing. If the crank has developed 
a bunch of end play, that could explain the noises, as well as the shavings 
he's seeing. To check for this, first take a heavy soft faced mallet and smack 
the crank damper a few times towards the transmission. Then use a large pry bar 
between the damper and the timing cover and pry the crank away from the 
transmission. If it moves more than about .1", that would indicate that the 
crank shaft thrust bearing is worn, or completely destroyed. Just for 
reference, the usual spec for crank end play when assembling a new engine, is 
between 
.04 - .08", depending on the specific engine. 
The saga continues...~HollandOn Dec 26, 2015 07:58, "'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v" 
<mk2-16v@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Agreed that there are multiple issues.  
Most likely the noise from the drive belts is the insulator on the water pump 
pulley that, in OE configuration, ran 2 different pulleys for 2 belts.  The 
pulleys were insulated from each other with a piece of cloth that wears over 
time allowing the pulleys to wobble slightly and create all kinds of noise.  
The other issue could be the crank pulley - either the harmonic balancer or the 
pulley set.  What often happens is that the harmonic balancer loosens up with 
age and it starts to wobble which damages the crank nose.  
With regards to the oil pressure buzzer - that buzzer sounds for both high and 
low pressure.  Unless you're running a gauge, it's a guess as to whether the 
issue is high or low pressure.  I don't remember if pulling the leads will 
disable the buzzer but that's a good start - if I only could remember which 
sensor is which...
The IM bearing is a sealed unit - I haven't had one fail but that doesn't mean 
it hasn't happened.  What colour are the shavings?  If they're shiny, chances 
are that they're metal but hopefully they're just plastic bits - from what I 
recall, the lower front cover on my car had a hole in it from the harmonic 
balancer.  It wasn't detrimental nor even audible, just annoying.   

On Friday, December 25, 2015 2:07 PM, "jlagn...@massed.net" 
<jlagn...@massed.net> wrote:
 

 You can use a mechanic's stethoscope, large screwdriver, large extension, or a 
hose to isolate the source of the sounds.

From: "Holland Phillips" <hollandphill...@gmail.com>
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 12:43:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and 
screeching noises in engine bay

I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the 
possibilities are numerous. Since

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

['Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v]

Agreed that there are multiple issues.  
Most likely the noise from the drive belts is the insulator on the water pump 
pulley that, in OE configuration, ran 2 different pulleys for 2 belts.  The 
pulleys were insulated from each other with a piece of cloth that wears over 
time allowing the pulleys to wobble slightly and create all kinds of noise.  
The other issue could be the crank pulley - either the harmonic balancer or the 
pulley set.  What often happens is that the harmonic balancer loosens up with 
age and it starts to wobble which damages the crank nose.  
With regards to the oil pressure buzzer - that buzzer sounds for both high and 
low pressure.  Unless you're running a gauge, it's a guess as to whether the 
issue is high or low pressure.  I don't remember if pulling the leads will 
disable the buzzer but that's a good start - if I only could remember which 
sensor is which...
The IM bearing is a sealed unit - I haven't had one fail but that doesn't mean 
it hasn't happened.  What colour are the shavings?  If they're shiny, chances 
are that they're metal but hopefully they're just plastic bits - from what I 
recall, the lower front cover on my car had a hole in it from the harmonic 
balancer.  It wasn't detrimental nor even audible, just annoying.   

On Friday, December 25, 2015 2:07 PM, "jlagn...@massed.net" 
<jlagn...@massed.net> wrote:
 

 #yiv7469847610 p {margin:0;}You can use a mechanic's stethoscope, large 
screwdriver, large extension, or a hose to isolate the source of the sounds.

From: "Holland Phillips" <hollandphill...@gmail.com>
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 12:43:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and 
screeching noises in engine bay

I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the 
possibilities are numerous. Since the engine starts and runs, I would be 
looking at the rotating ancilliaries.
Do any of the pulleys wobble? Since it sounds like someone removed the A/C, 
they may have messed up something with the v-belt system, depending on exactly 
how they removed the A/C compressor. Like did they leave all the pulleys in 
place, except the one on the compressor itself? As I recall, the A/C drive belt 
is a wider, heavier duty belt than the rest. Then I wonder if the power 
steering pump and water pump are turning freely. If one of those is frozen, or 
partially locked up, that could be a problem. As I mentioned before, trying to 
trouble shoot this via textual description is nigh on impossible. If any of one 
of our more knowledgeable members is located geographically close to this guy, 
maybe we could be of more help. ~HollandOn Dec 25, 2015 09:14, "Les Noriel" 
<les.nor...@gmail.com> wrote:

One idea I thought might be part of the problem. Check that the timing belt 
tensioner is good. When those bearings go bad, it can make a lot of noise 
(buzzer?) It can also compromise timing which would make the motor run badly, 
especially if the belt jumped a tooth.   Just a thought LesOn Dec 25, 2015 8:27 
AM, "Holland Phillips" <hollandphill...@gmail.com> wrote:

Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the problem 
is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers, and see if 
it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non magnetic, then 
it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head. Just a 
suggestion...~HollandOn Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004" 
<damac2...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple months so 
the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to shut the car 
off.
no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the wrong 
way.
i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to check, i 
guess i was just looking for some real world experience.
i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on the 
timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the oil light 
and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.   i can't 
even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.
i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead.  you 
could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell the 
belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary type 
and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.

after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto the 
driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i didn't 
want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery racket/scratching can 
be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and letting off.


On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate sh

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Les Noriel]

One idea I thought might be part of the problem. Check that the timing belt
tensioner is good. When those bearings go bad, it can make a lot of noise
(buzzer?) It can also compromise timing which would make the motor run
badly, especially if the belt jumped a tooth.   Just a thought

Les
On Dec 25, 2015 8:27 AM, "Holland Phillips" 
wrote:

> Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the
> problem is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers,
> and see if it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non
> magnetic, then it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head.
> Just a suggestion...
>
> ~Holland
> On Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004"  wrote:
>
>> sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple
>> months so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to
>> shut the car off.
>>
>> no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the
>> wrong way.
>>
>> i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to
>> check, i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.
>>
>> i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on
>> the timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the
>> oil light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.
>>   i can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.
>>
>> i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead.
>>  you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell
>> the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary
>> type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.
>>
>>
>> after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto
>> the driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i
>> didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery
>> racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and
>> letting off.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>>>
>>> The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil
>>> pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v
>>> dizzy runs off the cam.
>>> Does it have A/C?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned
>>> on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is
>>> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect
>>> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>>>
>>> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure
>>> oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and
>>> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too
>>> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i
>>> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just
>>> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a
>>> motor.
>>>
>>> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started
>>> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't
>>> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping
>>> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the
>>> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running
>>> only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft
>>> from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another
>>> pully was actually touching it.
>>>
>>> im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it
>>> would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im
>>> shaft without interference?
>>>
>>> is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it
>>> up?  i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.
>>>  it has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.
>>>
>>> or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im
>>> bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "MK2-16v" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to mk2...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/af959f0b-50cd-474c-917b-f978104e7adb%40googlegroups.com
>>> 

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Holland Phillips]

I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the
possibilities are numerous. Since the engine starts and runs, I would be
looking at the rotating ancilliaries.
Do any of the pulleys wobble? Since it sounds like someone removed the A/C,
they may have messed up something with the v-belt system, depending on
exactly how they removed the A/C compressor. Like did they leave all the
pulleys in place, except the one on the compressor itself? As I recall, the
A/C drive belt is a wider, heavier duty belt than the rest. Then I wonder
if the power steering pump and water pump are turning freely. If one of
those is frozen, or partially locked up, that could be a problem. As I
mentioned before, trying to trouble shoot this via textual description is
nigh on impossible. If any of one of our more knowledgeable members is
located geographically close to this guy, maybe we could be of more help.

~Holland
On Dec 25, 2015 09:14, "Les Noriel"  wrote:

> One idea I thought might be part of the problem. Check that the timing
> belt tensioner is good. When those bearings go bad, it can make a lot of
> noise (buzzer?) It can also compromise timing which would make the motor
> run badly, especially if the belt jumped a tooth.   Just a thought
>
> Les
> On Dec 25, 2015 8:27 AM, "Holland Phillips" 
> wrote:
>
>> Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the
>> problem is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers,
>> and see if it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non
>> magnetic, then it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head.
>> Just a suggestion...
>>
>> ~Holland
>> On Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004"  wrote:
>>
>>> sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple
>>> months so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to
>>> shut the car off.
>>>
>>> no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the
>>> wrong way.
>>>
>>> i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to
>>> check, i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.
>>>
>>> i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on
>>> the timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the
>>> oil light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.
>>>   i can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.
>>>
>>> i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead.
>>>  you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell
>>> the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary
>>> type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.
>>>
>>>
>>> after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto
>>> the driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i
>>> didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery
>>> racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and
>>> letting off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello
>>> wrote:

 The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the
 oil pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The
 16v dizzy runs off the cam.
 Does it have A/C?



 On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  wrote:

 I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned
 on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is
 because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect
 but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.

 Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure
 oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and
 clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too
 many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i
 probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just
 putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a
 motor.

 i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and
 started it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i
 don't know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't
 loping the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but
 noticed the racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine
 was running only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the
 intermediate shaft from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't
 quite tell if another pully was actually touching it.

 im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Holland Phillips]

It just occurred to me that finding this problem may be easier than I
originally thought. Since there seems to be some sort of metal shavings
visible externally, the source of those also should be visible externally.
Time for a flash light and one of those small extendable mirrors. Or one of
those "snake" cameras (Endoscope in medicaleese).

~Holland
On Dec 25, 2015 09:43, "Holland Phillips"  wrote:

> I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the
> possibilities are numerous. Since the engine starts and runs, I would be
> looking at the rotating ancilliaries.
> Do any of the pulleys wobble? Since it sounds like someone removed the
> A/C, they may have messed up something with the v-belt system, depending on
> exactly how they removed the A/C compressor. Like did they leave all the
> pulleys in place, except the one on the compressor itself? As I recall, the
> A/C drive belt is a wider, heavier duty belt than the rest. Then I wonder
> if the power steering pump and water pump are turning freely. If one of
> those is frozen, or partially locked up, that could be a problem. As I
> mentioned before, trying to trouble shoot this via textual description is
> nigh on impossible. If any of one of our more knowledgeable members is
> located geographically close to this guy, maybe we could be of more help.
>
> ~Holland
> On Dec 25, 2015 09:14, "Les Noriel"  wrote:
>
>> One idea I thought might be part of the problem. Check that the timing
>> belt tensioner is good. When those bearings go bad, it can make a lot of
>> noise (buzzer?) It can also compromise timing which would make the motor
>> run badly, especially if the belt jumped a tooth.   Just a thought
>>
>> Les
>> On Dec 25, 2015 8:27 AM, "Holland Phillips" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the
>>> problem is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers,
>>> and see if it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non
>>> magnetic, then it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head.
>>> Just a suggestion...
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>> On Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004"  wrote:
>>>
 sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple
 months so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to
 shut the car off.

 no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the
 wrong way.

 i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to
 check, i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.

 i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on
 the timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the
 oil light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.
   i can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.

 i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead.
  you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell
 the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary
 type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.


 after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto
 the driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i
 didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery
 racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and
 letting off.



 On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello
 wrote:
>
> The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the
> oil pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The
> 16v dizzy runs off the cam.
> Does it have A/C?
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  wrote:
>
> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and
> planned on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving
> it as is because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some
> neglect but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>
> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure
> oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches 
> and
> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So 
> too
> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i
> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just
> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up 
> a
> motor.
>
> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and
> started it up for a bit.  it ran with 

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Holland Phillips]

Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the
problem is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers,
and see if it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non
magnetic, then it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head.
Just a suggestion...

~Holland
On Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004"  wrote:

> sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple
> months so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to
> shut the car off.
>
> no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the
> wrong way.
>
> i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to
> check, i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.
>
> i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on the
> timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the oil
> light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.   i
> can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.
>
> i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead.
>  you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell
> the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary
> type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.
>
>
> after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto
> the driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i
> didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery
> racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and
> letting off.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>>
>> The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil
>> pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v
>> dizzy runs off the cam.
>> Does it have A/C?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  wrote:
>>
>> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned
>> on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is
>> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect
>> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>>
>> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure
>> oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and
>> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too
>> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i
>> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just
>> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a
>> motor.
>>
>> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started
>> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't
>> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping
>> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the
>> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running
>> only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft
>> from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another
>> pully was actually touching it.
>>
>> im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it
>> would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im
>> shaft without interference?
>>
>> is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up?
>>  i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it
>> has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.
>>
>> or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im
>> bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MK2-16v" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to mk2...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/af959f0b-50cd-474c-917b-f978104e7adb%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MK2-16v" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
> To 

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[jlagnese]

You can use a mechanic's stethoscope, large screwdriver, large extension, or a 
hose to isolate the source of the sounds. 

- Original Message -

From: "Holland Phillips" <hollandphill...@gmail.com> 
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 12:43:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and 
screeching noises in engine bay 


I was thinking the same thing. But with the symptoms he's reporting, the 
possibilities are numerous. Since the engine starts and runs, I would be 
looking at the rotating ancilliaries. 
Do any of the pulleys wobble? Since it sounds like someone removed the A/C, 
they may have messed up something with the v-belt system, depending on exactly 
how they removed the A/C compressor. Like did they leave all the pulleys in 
place, except the one on the compressor itself? As I recall, the A/C drive belt 
is a wider, heavier duty belt than the rest. Then I wonder if the power 
steering pump and water pump are turning freely. If one of those is frozen, or 
partially locked up, that could be a problem. As I mentioned before, trying to 
trouble shoot this via textual description is nigh on impossible. If any of one 
of our more knowledgeable members is located geographically close to this guy, 
maybe we could be of more help. 
~Holland 
On Dec 25, 2015 09:14, "Les Noriel" < les.nor...@gmail.com > wrote: 



One idea I thought might be part of the problem. Check that the timing belt 
tensioner is good. When those bearings go bad, it can make a lot of noise 
(buzzer?) It can also compromise timing which would make the motor run badly, 
especially if the belt jumped a tooth. Just a thought 
Les 
On Dec 25, 2015 8:27 AM, "Holland Phillips" < hollandphill...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Another thing you could do that may help to identify the source of the problem 
is take a magnet, like one of those extendable magnetic retrievers, and see if 
it picks up the metallic shavings you mentioned. If they're non magnetic, then 
it may indicate that something is rubbing against the head. Just a 
suggestion... 
~Holland 
On Dec 24, 2015 23:29, "damac2004" < damac2...@sbcglobal.net > wrote: 



sorry this car has a 16v motor. i have been driving it for a couple months so 
the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to shut the car 
off. 


no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the wrong 
way. 


i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to check, i 
guess i was just looking for some real world experience. 


i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on the 
timing belt side to make it lope at idle. but that coupled with the oil light 
and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side. i can't even 
move a pulley when tugging by hand right now. 


i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead. you 
could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell the 
belt. that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary type and 
the gear shaved grooves into the cover. 




after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto the 
driveway. started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i didn't 
want to warm it up. wasn't loping but all the clattery racket/scratching can be 
heard especially after stabbing the throttle and letting off. 




On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote: 




The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil pump. 
If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v dizzy runs 
off the cam. 
Does it have A/C? 





On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004 < dama...@sbcglobal.net > wrote: 



I'm new to these cars. I got one of these a few months ago and planned on using 
it as a project to restore for fun. I have been driving it as is because it 
worked. I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect but it was 
getting me around ok with no funky noises. 


Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
buzzer constantly started going off. I heard a racket of screeches and clunks 
in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed. So too many wierd 
things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i probably ran the 
car about a minute after before turning it off. just putting my safety first 
because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a motor. 


i had to work and came back to cold car. i have good fluids and started it up 
for a bit. it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't know if 
these cars typically do that while warming up. it wasn't loping the same. i 
reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the racket sounded 
like its on the drive belt system. while engine was running only odd thing i 

Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Holland Phillips]

High pressure oil buzzer? In my twenty plus years of owning and working on
Mk2 16V VW's, this is the first time I've heard of the existence of a high
pressure oil alarm. At least with the 2.0 liter Motronic models, there
isn't even an audible low pressure oil pressure alarm. Only a red idiot
lamp, which illuminates when the ignition is switched on, and will
disappear once the engine starts. I believe that the warning lamp will
illuminate if the oil pressure drops below something like 7 - 10psi. An
engine with worn main bearings, or if the oil level is over about one quart
low may cause the warning lamp to flicker at idle, or possibly fully
illuminate if things are really bad. The other symptoms you describe could
be caused by a lot of issues. I suggest removing the upper timing belt
cover and perform a thorough visual inspection. Unfortunately, removing the
lower timing belt cover requires removing all the v- belts, as well as the
crank shaft pulley and crank damper. Also, I would check the main crank
damper bolt. If that were to loosen, the damper could start wobbeling,
which may explain the shavings in the bottom of the timing cover. There are
many other possible explanations for your issues, but things like this are
difficult to troubleshooting via textual explainations.
I wish you luck, and always feel free to ask questions as they arise.

~Holland
On Dec 24, 2015 20:25, "damac2004"  wrote:

> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on
> using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is
> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect
> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>
> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil
> buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and
> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too
> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i
> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just
> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a
> motor.
>
> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started
> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't
> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping
> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the
> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running
> only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft
> from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another
> pully was actually touching it.
>
> im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it
> would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im
> shaft without interference?
>
> is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up?
>  i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it
> has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.
>
> or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im
> bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MK2-16v" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to mk2-16v+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/af959f0b-50cd-474c-917b-f978104e7adb%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[damac2004]

sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple months 
so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to shut 
the car off.

no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the 
wrong way.

i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to check, 
i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.

i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on the 
timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the oil 
light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.   i 
can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.

i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead. 
 you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell 
the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary 
type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.


after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto the 
driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i 
didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery 
racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and 
letting off.



On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil 
> pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v 
> dizzy runs off the cam. 
> Does it have A/C? 
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  > wrote:
>
> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on 
> using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect 
> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>
> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
> buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
> motor.
>
> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started 
> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't 
> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping 
> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the 
> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running 
> only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft 
> from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another 
> pully was actually touching it.
>
> im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it 
> would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im 
> shaft without interference? 
>
> is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up? 
>  i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it 
> has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.
>
> or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im 
> bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MK2-16v" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com .
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Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[Steven Arguello]

The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil pump. 
If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v dizzy runs 
off the cam. 
Does it have A/C? 



On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004  wrote:

I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on 
using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is because 
it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect but it was 
getting me around ok with no funky noises.

Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and clunks 
in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too many wierd 
things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i probably ran the 
car about a minute after before turning it off.  just putting my safety first 
because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a motor.

i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started it up 
for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't know if 
these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping the same.  i 
reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the racket sounded 
like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running only odd thing i 
noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft from the lower plastic 
timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another pully was actually touching 
it.

im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it would 
do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im shaft without 
interference? 

is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up?  i 
sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it has 
power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.

or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im bearings 
and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
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