Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
BigRedFed wrote: So it's our fault that you can't teach your own kids better? It's your fault that you are trying to manipulate people, often enough by appealing to the lowest instincts in man and exploiting the stupidity of the masses, and our fault, i. e. that of the majority, that we let ourselves be manipulated that way. Why don't you come over here then, you'll fit right in with the other 60's socialists LOL who don't believe in personal responsibilty I *do* believe in personal responsibility. That's why I'm still following this discussion and trying to put things right. your kids can shoot up their school and you can sue the Video Game industry, Hollywood, and Gunmakers because you can't teach a little self-discipline and responsibilty to your children. You'll still get to whine, but you might get a bonus and get some money too. Fortunately, you are describing your own country there, not mine. That's exactly what I do *not* want to see here and why I'm *against* the US exerting an influence everywhere on earth. -- Nur tote Fische schwimmen mit dem Strom. (anon.) ::: http://www.hei-news.de/ :::
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Brian Heinrich wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: Germans still haven't really accepted that the whole world is gradually becoming a meltingpot. And, of course, Americans have yet to accept that the world is actually much more akin to a cultural mosaic. Oh, I like *mosaic* much better than *meltingpot*. It allows for maintaining one's own identity instead of being assimilated (melted) into the collective. ;) Thanks :-D -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo stated the following: Brian Heinrich wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: Germans still haven't really accepted that the whole world is gradually becoming a meltingpot. And, of course, Americans have yet to accept that the world is actually much more akin to a cultural mosaic. Oh, I like *mosaic* much better than *meltingpot*. It allows for maintaining one's own identity instead of being assimilated (melted) into the collective. ;) The mosaic idea is so antiquated. You can't sum up a diverse multitude of cultural human beings into one type, especially in the USA, otherwise you couldn't get so many different cultures into one nation. It's the difference between close-mindedness and open-mindedness, a narrow and broader point-of-view. It's also the reason why these discussions started and haven't ended. As for, maintaining one's own identity. You couldn't have a diverse multitude of cultural human beings if a loss of identity was a fact. * Signed, SoloCDM
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
SoloCDM escribió: As for, maintaining one's own identity. You couldn't have a diverse multitude of cultural human beings if a loss of identity was a fact. YES!
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: snip Germans still haven't really accepted that the whole world is gradually becoming a meltingpot. And, of course, Americans have yet to accept that the world is actually much more akin to a cultural mosaic. Oh, wait; that's the indoctrinated Canadian part of me speaking. Never mind. . . . Brian -- Westron wind, when will thou blow? The small rain down can rain: Christ, if my love were in my arms And I in my bed again! -- Anonymous lyric, early 16th c.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: BigRedFed wrote: make sure you don't take your eyes off of your own youth as they look towards our Nation with envy and regard and build an America underneath your own feet. You're addressing one of the main problems there, actually. You dump all kinds of filth onto our kids (through the media etc.), telling them it is US culture and how cool they are if they adopt that (and buy the associated products) and they will happily do so. The result is the end of civilization in those countries that still have some left after more than 50 years of US domination. Regards, HP I believe the technical term is *cultural hegemony*. . . . Brian -- Westron wind, when will thou blow? The small rain down can rain: Christ, if my love were in my arms And I in my bed again! -- Anonymous lyric, early 16th c.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: BigRedFed wrote: make sure you don't take your eyes off of your own youth as they look towards our Nation with envy and regard and build an America underneath your own feet. You're addressing one of the main problems there, actually. You dump all kinds of filth onto our kids (through the media etc.), telling them it is US culture and how cool they are if they adopt that (and buy the associated products) and they will happily do so. The result is the end of civilization in those countries that still have some left after more than 50 years of US domination. Regards, HP So it's our fault that you can't teach your own kids better? Why don't you come over here then, you'll fit right in with the other 60's socialists who don't believe in personal responsibilty, so they don't teach it to their kids and they don't take any on themselves. You can go on welfare, your kids can shoot up their school and you can sue the Video Game industry, Hollywood, and Gunmakers because you can't teach a little self-discipline and responsibilty to your children. You'll still get to whine, but you might get a bonus and get some money too. BigRedFed
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: Remember, the wired box people were murderous criminals. You really make it difficult for people not to call you an idiot. Every decent source of information - including US media - speak of *suspected* Al-Quaeda members, and Taliban *soldiers*. They are being diplomatic about accusing people before their guilt is proven (I applaud that). And the fact that they are soldiers does not excuse them when they commut murder. See my previous Wehrmacht post. Only you *know* that they were all murderous criminals (from 25 different countries by the way - LOL). You must be pretty blind to think that they were there from 25 different countries to go on a vacation in the caves of Afghanistan. What do *you* think they were doing there? Do you really think anybody will buy your lies when there's more reliable information available everywhere? And what information would that be? Do some reading on the web instead of making a nuisance of yourself here! The truth is often a nuisance to those who would rather spread lies or are afraid to confront it. -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: Tortured, who/where? That's new to me. I would certainly not agree with that. Read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,665939,00.html A very interesting article. I will have to investigate that further. I would not put such a thing past the Bush administration. :( If true... it would shed a bad light on the US and on the arab nations participating. I actually think that it reflect *more poorly* on the countries willing to perform the torture (performing a crime is still worse than abetting (/anzetteln/) someone to perform a crime - no?). I thought everyone had at *least* one phonecall. Peter, you are totally uninformed. That's an exageration. I will admit that I may not be *fully informed*. A simple Google search would have taken you to the full story behind the World Court's ruling. But you seem to prefer cultivating your dream. from http://www.globalpolicy.org/wldcourt/icj/2001/0627grmn.htm ...The United States did not deny the mistake and apologized, but argued that the lack of consular help had no bearing on the trial's outcome. He was executed a week later. ... So what's the big deal? The murderer would have been executed anyways. My impression is that you will never be convinced. I am actually quite capable of changing my point of view. You simply have failed to provide adequate reason to do so. Continuing this discussion with you is therefore a waste of time. If you want to do the US a favour you let this thread die. You mean, if I want to do *you* a favor... In order to bring this back onto a Mozilla-related track I have a question: snip Please don't bring up topics that are OT to *this* thread. :-P -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: Oh yeah, human rights like keeping prisoners in 1.8 x 2.4 m wire mesh cages, right? And are prison cells in Germany much larger? No! And prisoners don't have the nice surround-view nor pleasant tropical climate as the AlKaida terrorists and murderers (let's not forget that fact). Or like sending prisoners abroad to have them tortured, because the US are too morally superior of course to torture them in their own country. Tortured, who/where? That's new to me. I would certainly not agree with that. Or like practising legalized murder (death penalty). Who's on the high and mighty holier than thow position now. Let's not forget that people subjected to the death penalty are generally people who have ruthlessly and viciously taken the life/lives of innocents. Having said that, I disagree with the death penalty - I just don't see it as *that* big an issue, considering who is being executed (surely not pollitical dissenters, as in the countries you defend by implication). Or like denying prisoners unable to pay for it the right to have competent legal assistance in court. Everyone gets (competent) legal assistance in the US. If you go to a country, you must be prepared to abide by its laws and subject yourself to its punishments (unless they are grossly unjust (e.g., execution for drug smuggling). Or like denying foreign prisoners the right to contact their embassy before being legally murdered (of which the US was found guilty recently by the International Court of Justice after having been sued by the German government, by the way). I thought everyone had at *least* one phonecall. If that's what you call better culture I prefer an inferior one. Being wrong is a choice you are allowed to make. You somehow fail to see the forest for the trees. I suggest you recalculate the sum of all that is positive about american culture and compare it to the defficiencies. You should then come up with a similar conclusion to mine. ;) But somehow I doubt that you even know what culture means. Maybe it means something different to everyone. To me it is a set of beliefs, behavior patterns, laws, habbits, etc. that define a person or group of persons. ... I just looked it up on dictionary.com - their definition is pretty close to mine. Perhaps *you* don't know. :-P -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: And are prison cells in Germany much larger? No! Sure they are. And they are in a real building, protecting the prisoners of strorms and rain. And prisoners don't have the nice surround-view nor pleasant tropical climate I suggest you spend your next holidays there. as the AlKaida terrorists and murderers (let's not forget that fact). They are not all terrorists and murderers. Most of them were soldiers. Maybe you should ask yourself if everything is right was your government tells you. Tortured, who/where? That's new to me. I would certainly not agree with that. Why so you think they were carried back after examinations and could not walk on themselves? Open your eyes. Everyone gets (competent) legal assistance in the US. If you go to a country, you must be prepared to abide by its laws and subject yourself to its punishments (unless they are grossly unjust (e.g., execution for drug smuggling). Or execution at all. I thought everyone had at *least* one phonecall. Oh, how broadminded. Hello embassador I need your help. Sorry I'm not allowed to help you. Being wrong is a choice you are allowed to make. You somehow fail to see the forest for the trees. I suggest you recalculate the sum of all that is positive about american culture and compare it to the defficiencies. You should then come up with a similar conclusion to mine. ;) What is positive about american culture? Can you tell me something that other countries don't have? Maybe european countries? -- Everyone who sends advertisement to me agrees to pay a fee of 10 Euro.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Martin Fritsche wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: And are prison cells in Germany much larger? No! Sure they are. And they are in a real building, protecting the prisoners of strorms and rain. That's because it's *cold* in Germany. Subtropical cultures don't need the solid contructions as are needed in the norther hemisphere. And prisoners don't have the nice surround-view nor pleasant tropical climate I suggest you spend your next holidays there. I lived in Florida for 6 years - it was pleasant. as the AlKaida terrorists and murderers (let's not forget that fact). They are not all terrorists and murderers. Most of them were soldiers. Maybe you should ask yourself if everything is right was your government tells you. Oh yeah, and the Wehrmacht were just following orders - We didn't know the *whole country was was engaged in an invasive war and was persecuting minorities. I question the US (and others) more than you may suspect. Tortured, who/where? That's new to me. I would certainly not agree with that. Why so you think they were carried back after examinations and could not walk on themselves? Open your eyes. You are speculating! For all we know, they were being carried because they refused to cooperate (like a sit-down strike). Everyone gets (competent) legal assistance in the US. If you go to a country, you must be prepared to abide by its laws and subject yourself to its punishments (unless they are grossly unjust (e.g., execution for drug smuggling). Or execution at all. Then don't go to the US and murder someone in cold blood. You should be reasonably safe then. ;) I thought everyone had at *least* one phonecall. Oh, how broadminded. Hello embassador I need your help. Sorry I'm not allowed to help you. That would be the coldheartedness of the *German* ambassador then. What is positive about american culture? Can you tell me something that other countries don't have? Maybe european countries? Just one example: Up until last year, Germany didn't even have an FDA. Oh, here's another one, just for fun: In general, Americans are more open to receiving and *welcoming* foreigners. Even though I have lived as an American in Germany *all my life*, I often get asked: so, how long will you stay in Germany? (by a neighbor!) Germans still haven't really accepted that the whole world is gradually becoming a meltingpot. -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
As always when not on the same side, the americans think they are great, we europeans think we are great and the americans are stupid. But, ultimately, the americans are european, 1776 or something, they became a nation, that´s a laugh if you are from europe. And ofcourse, living standard if quite much higher in Sweden. I hope the British Commonwealth makes some move, would be fun to see them rise to glory agin! Ping, pong, långkalsong!
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: That's because it's *cold* in Germany. Subtropical cultures don't need the solid contructions as are needed in the norther hemisphere. Sure. That's why people can life in boxes made of wire and wood. People in california also think that there ist nothing better than living in such a box right? I lived in Florida for 6 years - it was pleasant. And you lived in a such a box? You're an ignorant idiot. They are not all terrorists and murderers. Most of them were soldiers. Maybe you should ask yourself if everything is right was your government tells you. Oh yeah, and the Wehrmacht were just following orders - We didn't know the *whole country was was engaged in an invasive war and was persecuting minorities. What has that do to with this??? You could also have written During the night it is colder than outside Same level of sense. You are speculating! For all we know, they were being carried because they refused to cooperate (like a sit-down strike). That is what you speculate. Then don't go to the US and murder someone in cold blood. You should be reasonably safe then. ;) You're a funny one, aren't you? At least you seem to think so. That would be the coldheartedness of the *German* ambassador then. It's the coldheartedness of the ambassador if he is not allowed to help his people? By the way, inform yourself about the La Grand Case. They were never informed that they have the right to get help from the german ambassador. You say you lived in germany all your live. Then you will understand this website http://www.learn-line.nrw.de/angebote/zeus/thema/todesstrafe/angst.htm Read it carefully. What is positive about american culture? Can you tell me something that other countries don't have? Maybe european countries? Just one example: Up until last year, Germany didn't even have an FDA. A FDA? What do you mean? Oh, here's another one, just for fun: In general, Americans are more open to receiving and *welcoming* foreigners. Even though I have lived as an American in Germany *all my life*, I often get asked: so, how long will you stay in Germany? (by a neighbor!) Oh, very good. He wants to start a conversation and you feel attacked. Very good. Maybe you don't just understood that a lot of people are send across europe and the world to work there for a few years. First year they work in germany, next year in the netherland, then maybe italy... -- Everyone who sends advertisement to me agrees to pay a fee of 10 Euro.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Martin Fritsche wrote: Peter Lairo wrote: That's because it's *cold* in Germany. Subtropical cultures don't need the solid contructions as are needed in the norther hemisphere. Sure. That's why people can life in boxes made of wire and wood. People in california also think that there ist nothing better than living in such a box right? Remember, the wired box people were murderous criminals. People living in California (generally) are not. Nevertheless, it is a complicated question. There are many factors: the food and hygene they are currently receiving is likely far better that what they consider normal. So if we were to treat them like regular prisoners, they might actually like it. On the other hand, we must be *very* cautious not to mistreat them (e.g., beating, sleep deprivation, and other cruelties). It *is* a fine line. I lived in Florida for 6 years - it was pleasant. And you lived in a such a box? You're an ignorant idiot. Now you're just jumping to irrational conclusions. ;) See my reply above (and please realize that I could elaborate, but lack the time). They are not all terrorists and murderers. Most of them were soldiers. Maybe you should ask yourself if everything is right was your government tells you. Oh yeah, and the Wehrmacht were just following orders - We didn't know the *whole country was was engaged in an invasive war and was persecuting minorities. What has that do to with this??? Soldiers are*not* exempt from being responsible for their actions - neither the Alkaida, nor the Wehrmacht. That is the relationship and the comparisson I was trying to make. You are speculating! For all we know, they were being carried because they refused to cooperate (like a sit-down strike). That is what you speculate. Yes, because I *don't* have the paranoia that Americans are evil beasts just waiting to mistreat anyone they dislike. Most (not all) Americans I have met are quite the opposite. Therefore, I'll stay with my speculation (while realizing that I may be wrong). Then don't go to the US and murder someone in cold blood. You should be reasonably safe then. ;) You're a funny one, aren't you? At least you seem to think so. At least. ;) That would be the coldheartedness of the *German* ambassador then. It's the coldheartedness of the ambassador if he is not allowed to help his people? It's simple, you go to a country, you better be prepared to live by its laws. I disagree with many German laws, but I accept them (not without protest), because that is how democracies work. By the way, inform yourself about the La Grand Case. They were never informed that they have the right to get help from the german ambassador. You say you lived in germany all your live. Then you will understand this website http://www.learn-line.nrw.de/angebote/zeus/thema/todesstrafe/angst.htm Read it carefully. The website is an essay written by an 8th grade student. The only really interesting point is the last statement: Humans are killed to show that it is wrong to kill humans. I like that! :) Everything else was just a description of the execution process and statistics on which states execute and how many were executed (info provided for non-German speakers who might be lead to believe that the referenced website had significant value - it had little). What is positive about american culture? Can you tell me something that other countries don't have? Maybe european countries? Just one example: Up until last year, Germany didn't even have an FDA. A FDA? What do you mean? Food and Drug administration - is like the Verbraucherschtzbehörde (implemented by the Greens). Oh, here's another one, just for fun: In general, Americans are more open to receiving and *welcoming* foreigners. Even though I have lived as an American in Germany *all my life*, I often get asked: so, how long will you stay in Germany? (by a neighbor!) Oh, very good. He wants to start a conversation and you feel attacked. No, this person *knew* that I had lived in Germany my entire chilhood, and still assumed that I would leave someday in my adulthood. I get this *assumption* often. Very good. Maybe you don't just understood that a lot of people are send across europe and the world to work there for a few years. First year they work in germany, next year in the netherland, then maybe italy... No, this question (when are you leaving?) gets asked of foreigners who are *known* to already have lived in Germany for many years. -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions (+ Mozilla question)
Peter Lairo wrote: Tortured, who/where? That's new to me. I would certainly not agree with that. Read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,665939,00.html I thought everyone had at *least* one phonecall. Peter, you are totally uninformed. A simple Google search would have taken you to the full story behind the World Court's ruling. But you seem to prefer cultivating your dream. My impression is that you will never be convinced. Continuing this discussion with you is therefore a waste of time. If you want to do the US a favour you let this thread die. In order to bring this back onto a Mozilla-related track I have a question: In the message list pane I'm seeing hardly intelligible number strings under Date. Something like 03/21/02 for today, for instance. ;-) Is there a preference to change this to something more sensible? Anything but mm/dd/yy would be fine. (I'm sorry if this is a FAQ.) Thanks. HP -- Yo tambien nací en el 53. (Víctor Manuel) ::: http://www.hei-news.de/ :::
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: Remember, the wired box people were murderous criminals. You really make it difficult for people not to call you an idiot. Every decent source of information - including US media - speak of *suspected* Al-Quaeda members, and Taliban *soldiers*. Only you *know* that they were all murderous criminals (from 25 different countries by the way - LOL). Do you really think anybody will buy your lies when there's more reliable information available everywhere? Do some reading on the web instead of making a nuisance of yourself here! HP -- Yo tambien nací en el 53. (Víctor Manuel) ::: http://www.hei-news.de/ :::
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions (+ Mozilla question)
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: Peter, you are totally uninformed. A simple Google search would have taken you to the full story behind the World Court's ruling. But you seem to prefer cultivating your dream. Okay, I will bite, I did a simple Google search and here is what I came up with: a) I assume you are referring to the Lagrande case. b) The German goverment was informed in 1992, seven years before they were executed. Prior to that it was unknown that they were German citizens and they were treated as US citizens. c) Their guilt was never in question. d) That they had adequate legal representation was never in question. e) They were not executed by the US government, they were executed by the State of Arizona. There is a difference if you aren't familiar with our system of government and the death penalty isn't legal in all 50 states.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions (+ Mozilla question)
Travis Crump wrote: Okay, I will bite, I did a simple Google search and here is what I came up with: a) I assume you are referring to the Lagrande case. Yes, he did. b) The German goverment was informed in 1992, seven years before they were executed. Prior to that it was unknown that they were German citizens and they were treated as US citizens. You have a link for that? My link[1] says the judiciary of arizona knewd it since 1982. c) Their guilt was never in question. That's not interesting here. d) That they had adequate legal representation was never in question. Oh sure it is. [1] also says: Also the LaGrand brothers did not have a good lawyer: The obligation defender at that time, to who for the first time a case of death penalty was entrusted, granted later to have been badly prepared - and of the Viennese convention to have never heard. (Translatet with Altavista) e) They were not executed by the US government, they were executed by the State of Arizona. There is a difference if you aren't familiar with our system of government and the death penalty isn't legal in all 50 states. But it is allowed by the US government. And they are both dead now. So where exactly is the difference? [1] http://www2.tagesspiegel.de/archiv/2000/11/13/ak-po-au-16517.html (german, you can use http://babelfish.altavista.com/ for translation) -- Everyone who sends advertisement to me agrees to pay a fee of 10 Euro.
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions (+ Mozilla question)
And it came to pass that Martin Fritsche wrote:
Travis Crump wrote:
Okay, I will bite, I did a simple Google search and here
is what I came up with:
a) I assume you are referring to the Lagrande case.
Yes, he did.
b) The German goverment was informed in 1992, seven
years before they
were executed. Prior to that it was unknown that they
were German citizens and they were treated as US citizens.
You have a link for that? My link[1] says the judiciary of
arizona knewd it since 1982.
It was noted in the arrest report that both men were resident aliens
and German citizens.
c) Their guilt was never in question.
That's not interesting here.
d) That they had adequate legal representation was
never in question.
Oh sure it is. [1] also says:
Also the LaGrand brothers did not have a good lawyer: The
obligation defender at that time, to who for the first time
a case of death penalty was entrusted, granted later to
have been badly prepared - and of the Viennese convention
to have never heard. (Translatet with Altavista)
Here's a brief filed with the International Court of Justice:
http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/idocket/igus/iguspleadings/iGUS_ipleading_Memorial_Germany_19990916_Complete.htm
e) They were not executed by the US government, they
were executed by
the State of Arizona. There is a difference if you aren't
familiar with our system of government and the death
penalty isn't legal in all 50 states.
But it is allowed by the US government. And they are both
dead now. So where exactly is the difference?
Is Germany responsible for actions taken by France? They're
both in the European Union.
The UNITED States is made up of 50 sovereign states, and there
are strict laws about what the Federal government may or may not
do. As long as the jurisdiction is within the state's boundaries,
and the laws of the state are within the Constitution, the
federal government may not interfere with the state government.
That being said, the LeGrand case was clearly mishandled from
the outset, and is another example of the Supreme Court's
fallibility.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
So close, no matter how far... couldn't be much more from the
heart. Forever trusting who we are, and nothing else matters.
To reply: xjahnATyahooDOTcom
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
200 years of Independence is a laugh... I guess you've been alive for all two hundred of those years to actually know how rediculous that is. So, if we're all basically Europeans, doesn't that mean that we have behind us, not only the 200 years of independent culture which we have developed but the cumilative history of all of Europe up to 1776 and the present? Our culture incorporates parts of every culture from around the world, your culture stagnates and drowns in it's own overabundance of perfume and pompensity. You sit and laugh and call us stupid while all the while growing more and more like us. Your EU is nothing more than an attempt to form a confederation with the ability to have the power and resources that the US has from our union. The British Commonwealth is one of the greatest examples of the offspring leading the dottering old parental figures into the next century. We may not be the first people to discover something and we may not be the first people to do something, but we are the first people to pull it all together. Sit back and laugh and while your laughing, thinking you are safe in warm, caught up in your traditions and history, make sure you don't take your eyes off of your own youth as they look towards our Nation with envy and regard and build an America underneath your own feet. La pooh wrote: As always when not on the same side, the americans think they are great, we europeans think we are great and the americans are stupid. But, ultimately, the americans are european, 1776 or something, they became a nation, that´s a laugh if you are from europe. And ofcourse, living standard if quite much higher in Sweden. I hope the British Commonwealth makes some move, would be fun to see them rise to glory agin! Ping, pong, långkalsong!
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: The rest of your claims is of a similar quality - not really worth discussing. Oh, I forgot to mention arrogance/blockage toward critical views (requiring introspective and self-criticism). ;) Peter, this is not a political forum, and all your out-of-subject messages are merely bullshit, sorry. -- Amicalement. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Rene ALBERT wrote: Peter, this is not a political forum, and all your out-of-subject messages are merely bullshit, sorry. Your facts are irrefutable. You're so right! NOT! ;) -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: I have lived in _Germany as an american *all* my life and I know that Europe is not that much better. All the wealth here is concentrated with the former blue bloods ( the Von's, and Zu's) LOL If you have lived in Germany all your life you have obviously done so without understanding a bit of what's going on around you. Apart from the fact that I don't know what _former_ blue bloods are supposed to be I can tell you that the wealth in this country is concentrated in the hands of people like Mr Schrempp (no von - no zu, see?), i. e. people who are (trying to be) perfect clones of the typical US businessman with everything that entails (ruthless egoism and a good deal of arrogance and ignorance, among other things). The rest of your claims is of a similar quality - not really worth discussing. Bye, HP -- Las penas y las vaquitas se van por la misma senda. Las penas son de nosotros, las vaquitas son ajenas. (Atahualpa Yupanqui) ::: http://www.hei-news.de/ :::
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Hans-Peter Fischer wrote: The rest of your claims is of a similar quality - not really worth discussing. Oh, I forgot to mention arrogance/blockage toward critical views (requiring introspective and self-criticism). ;) -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: Also, the US didn't create the third world. That's just ridiculous. I know people that work in the government and the IMF and they try VERY hard to balance helping poorer countries with the US's own needs. Isn't it the IMF that creates the so-called export zones in third world contries? The basic rules of export zones goes like this: There are no rules. National laws do not apply. Human rights do not apply. Companies do not pay taxes. Workers are not allowed to organize themselves in unions. Huge multinational companies are allowed to force the poor workers to do slave-like jobs, and destroy the environment at the same time. But they can't simply refuse to work there, as it's the only way they can get *any* money. Their only alternative is to die. Many people do actually die in the export zones, as there is absolutely zero protection even for people working with extremely dangerous machines or chemicals. But they have no choice. That is what the IMF promotes. Or is it the WTO? Not that there's much of a difference between those two. To say that the IMF, the WTO, and the World Bank is actually trying to *help* third world contries is just bullshit. That's what they want you to believe (christ, I'm almost starting to sound like JTK here). Our good friend RMS has some interesting notes on this, among other political issues: http://stallman.org/#notes /Jonas
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Peter Lairo wrote: All this anti american bashing is sooo typical. I'm sure there is some justicfication for it. But I have lived in _Germany as an american *all* my life and I know that Europe is not that much better. All the wealth here is concentrated with the former blue bloods ( the Von's, and Zu's) -the rest are licky to have an 80 m² apartment (most rent, they don't own!).I largely agree. Let's also admit that renting rather than owning has a lot to do with population density versus land availability. This is also increasingly the case in large -- and even not-so-large -- American (and Canadian) urban areas. (I'm also a first-generation Canadian whose parents emigrated from Germany and Austria in the mid-'50s, so I'm not entirely unaware of the conditions you describe.) Also, the US didn't create the third world. That's just ridiculous. I know people that work in the government and the IMF and they try VERY hard to balance helping poorer countries with the US's own needs. The reality is that there are other reasons for poverty in this world. They'd be poor no matter what. Why do people so often think that america can/is influence(ing) EVERYTHING? Are you all paranoid? It's just not the case! I even see people in Germany who are desinterested in progress (in the old days everything was better). You don't create wealth and food without a basic desire to grow. I also largely agree with Jonas Jørgensen's comments here. [Sorry, don't know if the ASCII character will work, tho' it should.] I don't think Bamm's original comment was that the U. S. /created/ the Third World (BTW, how does one clearly indicate italics in plain text? I always thought it was by using a tilde, but that seems not to work) but rather that U. S. foreign policy in many cases has worked to /keep/ Third-World countries in the Third World. Again, see Jonas' comments. BTW, it's not paranoia if they really /are/ after you. . . . The biggest fault the US has is that they are so sure of themselves and become arrogant and pushy (it's that darwinian thing). Fortunately, they are usually fair and right about what they do. It's precisely that arrogance that sticks in the craw of most people. There's something else, too: my experience (of Americans in Canada) is that it is only when some ideological issue arises that this arrogance surfaces. It's quite startling to see otherwise sane, intelligent people begin to utter Troglodyte truisms (too often reducible to some form of 'America will fight and America will be right'). An analysis of Geo. W. Bush's comments subsequent to 11.IX.01, for instance, would be quite pertinent here. I'm not even gonna go /near/ the statement that America is 'usually fair and right about what they do'; there are far too many exceptions, some real, some, perhaps, merely perceived. I think most people feel threatened by the US's power (understandable), but also the US's progres in many areas of human development. I have seen MANY people in Europ who are afraid and unwilling to expand their emotional horizon. Behaviour patterns here are quite well defined, and they involve a LOT of rationality and conformity (not just Germany - ALL of Europe). Hmm . . . I'm not quite sure what your point here is. I get really tired of the European holier-than-thow attitude. All the cliche's: americans are fat, americans are dumb and uninformed, etc ad nauseum. Well, just one example: In Germany, crappy old McDonalds has become a booming business, while the *much better* Wendies and Burger King have gone broke. So much for american's bad taste compared to the gourmet Europeans. Yeah right. OK, I'm done now. Clichés will always be gross over-simplifications, and yet many clichés /do/ contain a kernel of truth. The exceptions that defy such clichés about Americans always seem more refreshing than shocking, as in the case of the (American) wife of a friend of mine, who knows more about both the American and Canadian political systems than anyone I have ever encountered, and who is quite pointed in her criticisms of both, but especially of the former. I enjoy a nice rant in the morning. ; 'Tis mid-afternoon as I write this, however. . . . -- Brian -- ?We have seen the enemy and he is us? ? Walt Kelly?s Pogo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Chris Charabaruk wrote: But I digress . . . and this is probably /not/ the most appropriate place for political discussions anyway. . . . No, heh... But there is no netscape.public.mozilla.politics group yet, so I guess this is the place for this. :) See bug 127495, Need newsgroup for off-topic postings. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127495 :-) I'm largely in agreement with Bamm: U. S. foreign policy /and/ the IMF have done a wonderful job of keeping Third World countries in the Third World. Hell, they've even /created/ Third World countries (/e.g./, modern-day South Africa). And look at the lovely job they did in Nicaragua. /Et cetera/. Where do I sign my name to be on that list, too? I also am in agreement with that point. When you find the list, please add my name to it as well, will you? /Jonas
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
All this anti american bashing is sooo typical. I'm sure there is some justicfication for it. But I have lived in _Germany as an american *all* my life and I know that Europe is not that much better. All the wealth here is concentrated with the former blue bloods ( the Von's, and Zu's) -the rest are licky to have an 80 m² apartment (most rent, they don't own!). Also, the US didn't create the third world. That's just ridiculous. I know people that work in the government and the IMF and they try VERY hard to balance helping poorer countries with the US's own needs. The reality is that there are other reasons for poverty in this world. They'd be poor no matter what. Why do people so often think that america can/is influence(ing) EVERYTHING? Are you all paranoid? It's just not the case! I even see people in Germany who are desinterested in progress (in the old days everything was better). You don't create wealth and food without a basic desire to grow. The biggest fault the US has is that they are so sure of themselves and become arrogant and pushy (it's that darwinian thing). Fortunately, they are usually fair and right about what they do. I think most people feel threatened by the US's power (understandable), but also the US's progres in many areas of human development. I have seen MANY people in Europ who are afraid and unwilling to expand their emotional horizon. Behaviour patterns here are quite well defined, and they involve a LOT of rationality and conformity (not just Germany - ALL of Europe). I get really tired of the European holier-than-thow attitude. All the cliche's: americans are fat, americans are dumb and uninformed, etc ad nauseum. Well, just one example: In Germany, crappy old McDonalds has become a booming business, while the *much better* Wendies and Burger King have gone broke. So much for american's bad taste compared to the gourmet Europeans. Yeah right. OK, I'm done now. I enjoy a nice rant in the morning. ; -- Regards, Peter Lairo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Chris Charabaruk wrote: I'm not American either, they just dictate our policies. Merely for the fact that they are our neighbours to the south. As far as I consider it, Ottawa is merely a puppet of D.C., which is a puppet itself to filty money. Chris Bamm Gabriana wrote: Um, I can't really follow these sort of discussions because I'm not an American. What I do know is that American foreign policy is what keeps third world countries in the third world. Michael H. Warfield wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:31:24AM +, DeMoN LaG wrote: Chris Charabaruk com.meldstar@coldacid wrote in 3C916A25.3010105@coldacid">news:3C916A25.3010105@coldacid, on 14 Mar 2002: Yeah, tell me about it. Same people, different parties. Or, as many have put it before, same difference. :P Whether it's the Republicans or the Democrats who are in 'power', the real sceptre is held by the corporate lobby groups, and a nice select group of unknown advisors in government agencies such as the CIA. Lewis Black put it best: What's the difference between a democrat and a republican? A democrat sucks, a republican blows Democrats sleep in king size beds (we won't get into who with). Republicans sleep in separate bedrooms. That's why there are more Democrats than Republicans. And the counter to that is... That's also why there are more BASTARD Democrats than Republicans... (Ok... So we did get into it - and so did they...) :-) -- AIM: FlyersR1 9 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ = m Mike OK, so there's a bit too much nesting going on here, but: Hey, Chris: I live in /Alberta/, fer crying out loud; people here think this /is/ America. I'm largely in agreement with Bamm: U. S. foreign policy /and/ the IMF have done a wonderful job of keeping Third World countries in the Third World. Hell, they've even /created/ Third World countries (/e.g./, modern-day South Africa). And look at the lovely job they did in Nicaragua. /Et cetera/. What I've never been able to figure out, though, is how on earth their own puppets and strong-men end up turning against them; Osama bin Laden is just the most obvious and most recent of a very long line. Which, of course, makes one wonder just what's behind this new push for a Middle East peace process, let alone the U. N. Security Council's resolution in favour of the creation of a separate Palestinian state. But I digress . . . and this is probably /not/ the most appropriate place for political discussions anyway. . . . -- ?We have seen the enemy and he is us? ? Walt Kelly?s Pogo
Re: U.S. Export Restrictions
Brian Heinrich wrote: Chris Charabaruk wrote: I'm not American either, they just dictate our policies. Merely for the fact that they are our neighbours to the south. As far as I consider it, Ottawa is merely a puppet of D.C., which is a puppet itself to filty money. Chris Bamm Gabriana wrote: Um, I can't really follow these sort of discussions because I'm not an American. What I do know is that American foreign policy is what keeps third world countries in the third world. Michael H. Warfield wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:31:24AM +, DeMoN LaG wrote: Chris Charabaruk com.meldstar@coldacid wrote in 3C916A25.3010105@coldacid">news:3C916A25.3010105@coldacid, on 14 Mar 2002: Yeah, tell me about it. Same people, different parties. Or, as many have put it before, same difference. :P Whether it's the Republicans or the Democrats who are in 'power', the real sceptre is held by the corporate lobby groups, and a nice select group of unknown advisors in government agencies such as the CIA. Lewis Black put it best: What's the difference between a democrat and a republican? A democrat sucks, a republican blows Democrats sleep in king size beds (we won't get into who with). Republicans sleep in separate bedrooms. That's why there are more Democrats than Republicans. And the counter to that is... That's also why there are more BASTARD Democrats than Republicans... (Ok... So we did get into it - and so did they...) :-) -- AIM: FlyersR1 9 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ = m Mike OK, so there's a bit too much nesting going on here, but: Hey, Chris: I live in /Alberta/, fer crying out loud; people here think this /is/ America. On the other side of a nice poluted body of water is New York State. I'm a 20 minute bike ride from Toronto, heh. If it wasn't for our multi-colored currency, this probably would be America. Just the thought of that sickens me, I'm proud to be Canadian. (TM by Molson, I think) I'm largely in agreement with Bamm: U. S. foreign policy /and/ the IMF have done a wonderful job of keeping Third World countries in the Third World. Hell, they've even /created/ Third World countries (/e.g./, modern-day South Africa). And look at the lovely job they did in Nicaragua. /Et cetera/. Where do I sign my name to be on that list, too? I also am in agreement with that point. What I've never been able to figure out, though, is how on earth their own puppets and strong-men end up turning against them; Osama bin Laden is just the most obvious and most recent of a very long line. Let's not forget others such as Saddam Hussein. Washington loves playing Dominos out in the middle east. Which, of course, makes one wonder just what's behind this new push for a Middle East peace process, let alone the U. N. Security Council's resolution in favour of the creation of a separate Palestinian state. Or the Isreali government's hatred of such a nation, propelling them to attempt, at least in my opinion, the emulation of those who oppressed them six decades ago. But I digress . . . and this is probably /not/ the most appropriate place for political discussions anyway. . . . No, heh... But there is no netscape.public.mozilla.politics group yet, so I guess this is the place for this. :) Chris -- Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk ccharabaruk.meldstar@com http://www.meldstar.com/~ccharabaruk/ Meldstar Studios http://www.meldstar.com/ - Creation, cubed. This message double ROT-13 encrypted for additional security.
