Re: [sureshr@staff.juno.com: Re: How do I make pop support do polling?]
Andy -- ...and then Andrew Eichmann said... % % Timothy Ball proclaimed on mutt-users that: % [much relevant other talk about his workplace and policy decisions missing] % % Fetchmail is frowned upon because of the fact that fetchamil basically % runs as a deamon. % % What's wrong with that? Nothing -- except in the minds of folks who make decisions at his company. Nobody ever said it was a "normal" request :-) % % Andy Eichmann :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bigfoot.com/~davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! The "new millennium" starts at the beginning of 2001. There was no year 0. Note: If bigfoot.com gives you fits, try sector13.org in its place. *sigh* PGP signature
Re: [sureshr@staff.juno.com: Re: How do I make pop support do polling?]
On 2000.06.11, in [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Nils Vogels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 03:22:27PM -0400, David T-G wrote: Nothing -- except in the minds of folks who make decisions at his company. *sigh* ... managers ... ;-) My group runs a system with nearly 500 concurrent users at peak times, and at least 100 at most times. We kill all user daemons and frequent cron tasks on sight. If people want to probe the IMAP server every 15 minutes from their own systems, that's not our business, but if they probe every 90 seconds, that also becomes our business, and we ask them to stop. There's nothing wrong with that, either. When you provide a resource to the public, you have the right to specify terms of service. P.S. I am not a manager. -- -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago
Re: [sureshr@staff.juno.com: Re: How do I make pop support do polling?]
On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:37:02PM -0500, David Champion wrote: On 2000.06.11, in [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Nils Vogels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *sigh* ... managers ... ;-) There's nothing wrong with that, either. When you provide a resource to the public, you have the right to specify terms of service. Well, this discussion is a bit OT i think ;-) I agree with you in one point, but I disagree in another. I run systems like that too, there are other ways out of it ;-) -- How can a species, that can create machines to communicate, fail to communicate amongst themselves ?
Re: [sureshr@staff.juno.com: Re: How do I make pop support do polling?]
On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:37:02PM -0500, David Champion ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: [...] If people want to probe the IMAP server every 15 minutes from their own systems, that's not our business, but if they probe every 90 seconds, that also becomes our business, and we ask them to stop. Sure, but why is it ok to poll every 15 minutes with $GENERIC_MAIL_CLIENT but not ok to poll every 15 minutes with fetchmail? *That* is the question at hand, the answer to which was "*sigh* managers". Although this sprung from "why can't I make mutt poll every n minutes", dragging this marginally on topic. :-) -- Jim Toth [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Since the advent of the ILOVEYOU worm, I will never again trust e-mail sent in a Manila envelope." -- John Coughlin
[sureshr@staff.juno.com: Re: How do I make pop support do polling?]
Timothy Ball proclaimed on mutt-users that: Fetchmail is frowned upon because of the fact that fetchamil basically runs as a deamon. What's wrong with that? Andy Eichmann
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 05:54:17PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % % Basically what I would like to see is POP support in mutt to be on the % line of IMAP support, polling of mailhost and delivering it to an INBOX % or something similiar. I can imagine that... Of course, it gets back to the whole war over which is a download method and which is a folder implementation... Yes, many moons ago, I was promoting the way that a number of other Unix MUAs handle POP3 mail. They keep a local record of mail in the POP3 mailbox (not copies of the mail messages themselves) and thus you can treat the POP3 mailbox in much the same way as a single IMAP folder, leaving the mail you want to keep on the server and deleting anything you don't want. New mail is marked as such so you can view it. This makes a mix of several different POP3 mailboxes and, maybe, some IMAP folders very easy to manage from a single 'view' in your MUA. Attempting to use fetchmail or anything like it entirely destroys this approach. With the POP3 mailboxes it's really only possible to do this in the MUA - unless you envisage an intermediary of some sort which makes POP3 mailboxes look like IMAP4 ones from the MUA's point of view. -- Chris Green ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.isbd.co.uk/
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] proclaimed on mutt-users that: Yes, many moons ago, I was promoting the way that a number of other Unix MUAs handle POP3 mail. They keep a local record of mail in the POP3 mailbox (not copies of the mail messages themselves) and thus you I asked ESR this - and his reply was "if you want an interactive pop client you know where to look". Yeah, sure - but, something commandline like fetchmail which is _also_ interactive (allowing you to download headers from a pop3 mailbox and then download only those you want to download) would be great. Ideas? -suresh -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + [EMAIL PROTECTED] Economics, n.: Economics is the study of the value and meaning of J. K. Galbraith ... -- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Suresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Fri, 09 Jun 2000: Yeah, sure - but, something commandline like fetchmail which is _also_ interactive (allowing you to download headers from a pop3 mailbox and then download only those you want to download) would be great. Ideas? Perl's Mail::POP3 module + a bit of your own scripting? Mikko -- // Mikko Hänninen, aka. Wizzu // [EMAIL PROTECTED] // http://www.iki.fi/wiz/ // The Corrs list maintainer // net.freak // DALnet IRC operator / // Interests: roleplaying, Linux, the Net, fantasy scifi, the Corrs / The death rate on Earth is: (computing) One per person.
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Marius Gedminas proclaimed on mutt-users that: On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:39:26PM +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: Yeah, sure - but, something commandline like fetchmail which is _also_ interactive (allowing you to download headers from a pop3 mailbox and then download only those you want to download) would be great. There is one. It's called Poppy. You can find it here: http://home.sprynet.com/~cbagwell/projects.html Wow!!! is all I can say. Thanks :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + [EMAIL PROTECTED] Slang is language that takes off its coat, spits on its hands, and goes to work.
How do I make pop support do polling?
For reasons I can not understand (it's a job thing) My mail servers can neither do imap or nfs mount /var/mail. My only choice is to do pop3. How do I make pop poll the pop server? I looked through the docs and it seems there is no timer functionality for the "fetch_mail" command. (and no I can not use fetchmail, I have to have mutt do it. It sounds unreasonable but that's the way the higher ups have decided to do things) TIA, timball -- Send mail with subject "send pgp key" for public key. pub 1024R/CFF85605 1999-06-10 Timothy L. Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key fingerprint = 8A 8E 64 D6 21 C0 90 29 9F D6 1E DC F8 18 CB CD
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Timothy Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Thu, 08 Jun 2000: For reasons I can not understand (it's a job thing) My mail servers can neither do imap or nfs mount /var/mail. My only choice is to do pop3. How do I make pop poll the pop server? I looked through the docs and it seems there is no timer functionality for the "fetch_mail" command. You can't. If you can create crontab entries, you can create a cron job that runs Mutt with some pushed keystrokes to execute the pop function. However you might run into problems with not having a tty for Mutt from the cron job, but if not, then there's nothing else to stop this from working. (and no I can not use fetchmail, I have to have mutt do it. It sounds unreasonable but that's the way the higher ups have decided to do things) Please replace or upgrade your higher ups and try again. :-) Mikko -- // Mikko Hänninen, aka. Wizzu // [EMAIL PROTECTED] // http://www.iki.fi/wiz/ // The Corrs list maintainer // net.freak // DALnet IRC operator / // Interests: roleplaying, Linux, the Net, fantasy scifi, the Corrs / A mind is a terrible thing to ... er ... h?
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Tim -- ...and then Timothy Ball said... % For reasons I can not understand (it's a job thing) My mail servers can % neither do imap or nfs mount /var/mail. My only choice is to do pop3. How How on earth is anyone getting mail now? Can you mimic that? I won't go into wondering why you can't fake it with fetchmail or the like; I like Mikko's suggetsion about upgrading your higher-ups :-) If you have access to the server, could you just read in an xterm from there? Or perhaps you could grab your mail out of /var/mail and "deliver" it to $HOME somewhere... :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bigfoot.com/~davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! The "new millennium" starts at the beginning of 2001. There was no year 0. Note: If bigfoot.com gives you fits, try sector13.org in its place. *sigh* PGP signature
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:47:14PM -0400, David T-G wrote: How on earth is anyone getting mail now? Can you mimic that? Most of the ppl here use kpop (kerberos pop) support in eudora, or outlook. I myself am adding kerberos support (again) into mutt, via a SASL (Simple Authentication Support Layer), it does kerberos via GSSAPI. The practical upshot of doing it this way is that when you POP yr mail the body of the message is sent encrypted... and of course kerberos allows you to log into the pop server w/o using a passwd. I won't go into wondering why you can't fake it with fetchmail or the like; I like Mikko's suggetsion about upgrading your higher-ups :-) Fetchmail is frowned upon because of the fact that fetchamil basically runs as a deamon. If you have access to the server, could you just read in an xterm from there? Or perhaps you could grab your mail out of /var/mail and "deliver" it to $HOME somewhere... The mail server no longer allows ssh/ktelnet access to "normal" users. Basically what I would like to see is POP support in mutt to be on the line of IMAP support, polling of mailhost and delivering it to an INBOX or something similiar. Course I'm having some issues w/ pop.c. I guess it's the fact that I'm unfamiliar w/ the "mutt" way of doing things. One where can I add a ./configure option. (I am very unfamiliar w/ m4.) how do I add stuff to init.h, and what format should it be in. And in pop.c where does the pop mesgs actually get "stored" in the mailbox? Is it via the mx_commit_message() function near line 280? --timball -- Send mail with subject "send pgp key" for public key. pub 1024R/CFF85605 1999-06-10 Timothy L. Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key fingerprint = 8A 8E 64 D6 21 C0 90 29 9F D6 1E DC F8 18 CB CD
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Tim -- ...and then Timothy Ball said... % On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:47:14PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % How on earth is anyone getting mail now? Can you mimic that? % % Most of the ppl here use kpop (kerberos pop) support in eudora, or Ahhh... So they really *are* popping, then. Ugh :-) % outlook. I myself am adding kerberos support (again) into mutt, via a % SASL (Simple Authentication Support Layer), it does kerberos via GSSAPI. Well, thanks! % The practical upshot of doing it this way is that when you POP yr mail % the body of the message is sent encrypted... and of course kerberos Pretty nice, even if it doesn't encrypt the headers... % allows you to log into the pop server w/o using a passwd. A nice bonus. % % I won't go into wondering why you can't fake it with fetchmail or the % like; I like Mikko's suggetsion about upgrading your higher-ups :-) % % Fetchmail is frowned upon because of the fact that fetchamil basically % runs as a deamon. Hmmm... What would they say if you promised to not, and then ran it from cron every */2 or */5 minutes? :-) % % If you have access to the server, could you just read in an xterm from % there? Or perhaps you could grab your mail out of /var/mail and % "deliver" it to $HOME somewhere... % % The mail server no longer allows ssh/ktelnet access to "normal" users. I figured that they'd have done that -- first, in fact -- but then didn't think that any company would *really* have folks popping dwn internally... What a backup mess! % % Basically what I would like to see is POP support in mutt to be on the % line of IMAP support, polling of mailhost and delivering it to an INBOX % or something similiar. I can imagine that... Of course, it gets back to the whole war over which is a download method and which is a folder implementation... % % Course I'm having some issues w/ pop.c. I guess it's the fact that I'm % unfamiliar w/ the "mutt" way of doing things. One where can I add a % ./configure option. (I am very unfamiliar w/ m4.) how do I add stuff to % init.h, and what format should it be in. And in pop.c where does the pop % mesgs actually get "stored" in the mailbox? Is it via the % mx_commit_message() function near line 280? Way outta my league :-) % % --timball % % -- % [EMAIL PROTECTED] Obviously not once they get to management, it seems ;-) :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bigfoot.com/~davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! The "new millennium" starts at the beginning of 2001. There was no year 0. Note: If bigfoot.com gives you fits, try sector13.org in its place. *sigh* PGP signature
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Hi all, Thanks for all your wonderful assistance in getting Mutt up and running. I haven't started Messenger all day, so your help was really useful! I do have a few other questions, two of them are not *really* Mutt related, but one of them is, so let me start with that. Being a Mutt newbie, I don't know what negative side effects might be caused by my desire. The default Mutt behaviour has the j key going to the next message. I think I would prefer that it go to the next unread message. I think I am capable of writing the macro to make that happen. However, I don't know what undesirable side effects that might occur should I do this. Is there a downside that I don't see? Moving more off-topic. In the discussions over my getting colour working, it was suggested that I use rxvt. I tried it and liked it very much. I'm going to show both my X ignorance and my rxvt ignorance here. One of the things I like about rxvt is its default fonts. I particularly like the largest font, however, I have no idea what the font is called, nor how to automatically start with the largest font. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I also would love to turn off the scroll bar, but the -sb switch doesn't appear to work. Moving even more off-topic. I'm using joe as my e-mail editor. However, since my window defaults to 80x40, joe's display is completely mangled when it starts. Using a ^R tends to fix most of the mangling, but not always. Also, who is using what for an editor (I use emacs all the time, but it is out as an e-mail editor as startup speed is too long) Other than joe, who's using what and why. Thanks in advance -- Stand Fast, tjg. Timothy Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chief Technology Officer www.exceptionalminds.com Red Hat Certified Engineer MIG #1433 Avalon Technology Group, Inc. Linux...Because rebooting isn't normal
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Tim --
...and then Timothy Grant said...
% Hi all,
%
% Thanks for all your wonderful assistance in getting Mutt up and running. I
% haven't started Messenger all day, so your help was really useful!
Yippee! :-)
%
% I do have a few other questions, two of them are not *really* Mutt
% related, but one of them is, so let me start with that.
*grin*
%
% Being a Mutt newbie, I don't know what negative side effects might be caused
% by my desire. The default Mutt behaviour has the j key going to the next
% message. I think I would prefer that it go to the next unread message. I
% think I am capable of writing the macro to make that happen. However, I
% don't know what undesirable side effects that might occur should I do this.
% Is there a downside that I don't see?
You can bind your keys any way you wish. Since you have {J,K} bound by
default to {next,prev}-entry, along with {j,k} ({next,prev}-undeleted),
you can change tab from next-new to whatever and bind {j,k} to
{next,prev}-new and take off.
Can't help you much with color, and I swear by vi[m] :-)
:-D
--
David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.bigfoot.com/~davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!
The "new millennium" starts at the beginning of 2001. There was no year 0.
Note: If bigfoot.com gives you fits, try sector13.org in its place. *sigh*
PGP signature
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Hi there, Timothy Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Thu, 08 Jun 2000: Being a Mutt newbie, I don't know what negative side effects might be caused by my desire. The default Mutt behaviour has the j key going to the next message. I think I would prefer that it go to the next unread message. I think I am capable of writing the macro to make that happen. However, I don't know what undesirable side effects that might occur should I do this. Is there a downside that I don't see? No there aren't. The only thing to watch out for is other macros which might expect that j is bound to next-undeleted, but you presumably know of any macros that you have defined (if you don't know of any, then there probably aren't any...) and whether they depend on that binding or not. Anyway, it's better to write macros which don't depend on specific keys, by specifying function-name instead, just to avoid this kind of situations. One final note: you probably don't need a macro, just re-binding of the j key. Mutt already has the next-new (or maybe it was next-unread, I forget) function. I also would love to turn off the scroll bar, but the -sb switch doesn't appear to work. Experiment with +sb instead. In many X programs some option is turned on with -option and turned off with +option (yes, it's bit backwards). Regards, Mikko -- // Mikko Hänninen, aka. Wizzu // [EMAIL PROTECTED] // http://www.iki.fi/wiz/ // The Corrs list maintainer // net.freak // DALnet IRC operator / // Interests: roleplaying, Linux, the Net, fantasy scifi, the Corrs / The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes.
Re: How do I make pop support do polling?
Timothy Ball proclaimed on mutt-users that: Fetchmail is frowned upon because of the fact that fetchamil basically runs as a deamon. Not by default. If you call it with fetchmail -d foo then yes ... Instead, run it using a cronjob at required intervals, or make it a shellscript. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/fetchmail/Fetchmail-FAQ.html has a lot you can use. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, never daunted, I will cope with adversity in my traditional manner ... sulking and nausea. -- Tom K. Ryan
