RE: Help saving MySQL
I think that letter actually does MySQL a favour as it points out 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever by Oracle customers' That single factor says Oracle should not be allowed to control MySQL as it would enable Oracle to more easily raise or maintain high prices! For something to be an effective 'pricing lever' it has to be a viable alternative. MySQL is a very effective pricing lever on Oracle as it is a mature and proven product with excellent support. Regards John -Original Message- From: Martijn Tonies m.ton...@upscene.com Sent: 16 December 2009 13:16 Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL It's still not too late to save MySQL and everyone that is using MySQL can help making a real difference. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Regards, Monty Guess you don't want them to write letters like this? http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-open-letter-to-european-competition.html With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com Download Database Workbench for Oracle, MS SQL Server, Sybase SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird! Database questions? Check the forum: http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
I think that letter actually does MySQL a favour as it points out 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever by Oracle customers' That single factor says Oracle should not be allowed to control MySQL as it would enable Oracle to more easily raise or maintain high prices! For something to be an effective 'pricing lever' it has to be a viable alternative. MySQL is a very effective pricing lever on Oracle as it is a mature and proven product with excellent support. I have to disagree with you there as the letter also mentions that MySQL isn't a viable alternative, or actually, Oracle shouldn't have been used for those projects in the first place. Give a number of other open source database systems, that particular point (MySQL) to drive the license price for Oracle down, is moot because you could use any other freely available DBMS (even for commercial projects!) to do the same. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Guess you don't want them to write letters like this? http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-open-letter-to-european-competition.html With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com Download Database Workbench for Oracle, MS SQL Server, Sybase SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird! Database questions? Check the forum: http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
I see some of your point Martin but I think the eu would look at that letter and see the author is stating 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever'. That single factor should be enough for them to be very concerned by an acquisition as removing an effective pricing lever from the market by acquisition is anti-competitive and helps increase or maintain high prices. I don't believe you could use any other open source database as a pricing lever in the same way because none are as mature or offer the levels of support that MySQL does and no other open source system can boast the performance benefits (especially with ndbcluster) or the availability of suitably trained and certified people to support their products. Regards John -Original Message- From: Martijn Tonies m.ton...@upscene.com Sent: 17 December 2009 09:44 To: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL I think that letter actually does MySQL a favour as it points out 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever by Oracle customers' That single factor says Oracle should not be allowed to control MySQL as it would enable Oracle to more easily raise or maintain high prices! For something to be an effective 'pricing lever' it has to be a viable alternative. MySQL is a very effective pricing lever on Oracle as it is a mature and proven product with excellent support. I have to disagree with you there as the letter also mentions that MySQL isn't a viable alternative, or actually, Oracle shouldn't have been used for those projects in the first place. Give a number of other open source database systems, that particular point (MySQL) to drive the license price for Oracle down, is moot because you could use any other freely available DBMS (even for commercial projects!) to do the same. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Guess you don't want them to write letters like this? http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-open-letter-to-european-competition.html With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com Download Database Workbench for Oracle, MS SQL Server, Sybase SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird! Database questions? Check the forum: http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
I see some of your point Martin but I think the eu would look at that letter and see the author is stating 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever'. That single factor should be enough for them to be very concerned by an acquisition as removing an effective pricing lever from the market by acquisition is anti-competitive and helps increase or maintain high prices. Believe me, the EU (Smit Kroes) ain't exactly stupid... That single factor only makes a difference -if there are no alternatives- (eg: other lower prices database systems), and yet, there are. So I doubt if that's gonna make a difference. I don't believe you could use any other open source database as a pricing lever in the same way because none are as mature or offer the levels of support that MySQL does and no other open source system can boast the performance benefits (especially with ndbcluster) or the availability of suitably trained and certified people to support their products. I beg to differ, heck, I also would like to aadd that some things in MySQL are not mature whatsoever compared to other DBMSses, being open source or not. MySQL is gonna have one big struggle to get things straight after this... Mind you, it would certainly be easier and probably better for business if Oracle didn't get MySQL, I agree with you on that ;-) But it's not about what -we- think. With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com Download Database Workbench for Oracle, MS SQL Server, Sybase SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird! Database questions? Check the forum: http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
On Thursday 17 December 2009, Daisley, John (Burton) wrote: I think that letter actually does MySQL a favour as it points out 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever by Oracle customers' That single factor says Oracle should not be allowed to control MySQL as it would enable Oracle to more easily raise or maintain high prices! For something to be an effective 'pricing lever' it has to be a viable alternative. MySQL is a very effective pricing lever on Oracle as it is a mature and proven product with excellent support. Regards John -Original Message- From: Martijn Tonies m.ton...@upscene.com Sent: 16 December 2009 13:16 Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL It's still not too late to save MySQL and everyone that is using MySQL can help making a real difference. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Regards, Monty Guess you don't want them to write letters like this? http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-open-letter-to-european-competitio n.html Shesh, this guy should get a job as a spin doctor for Tiger Woods! -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp An Italian is COMBING his hair in suburban DES MOINES! -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
John, Another read on the subject: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/12/10/the-case-against-the-case-against-oracle-mysql/ Enjoy. With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com I see some of your point Martin but I think the eu would look at that letter and see the author is stating 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever'. That single factor should be enough for them to be very concerned by an acquisition as removing an effective pricing lever from the market by acquisition is anti-competitive and helps increase or maintain high prices. I don't believe you could use any other open source database as a pricing lever in the same way because none are as mature or offer the levels of support that MySQL does and no other open source system can boast the performance benefits (especially with ndbcluster) or the availability of suitably trained and certified people to support their products. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Martjin, I really don't like to point fingers or anything like that, but the simple fact Oracle owns the MySQL copyrights is by it self very concerning, as all our investments (time and money) could be lost over night, if Oracles decides to close de source or change it's licensing policies. Many could say Oh, they will not do that, because they promised not to., as an old professor of mine said: What isn't written, does not count! Everything else is here say, and there is no legal or moral grounds. As a sailor I saw what Larry Ellisson did with the oldest and most prestigious match race in the sport of sailing, the America's Cup. He and Ernesto Bertarelli (a swiss billionaire) are fighting in the New York Supreme Court for over 3 years for power, and almost 160 years of history and sportsmanship are being destroyed. Personally, that's not Ellisson's fault because Bertarelli is the one who is trying to subvert the rules (the Deed of Gift written in 1852 and that drives the competition until today http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deed_of_Gift), but this shows the kind of mentality that Ellisson works with: Until the last consequences. More info at: http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/article.jsp?ID=170610 Best Regards, Bruno B. B. Magalhães BLACKBEAN CONSULTORIA Rua Real Grandeza 193, Sala 210, Botafogo Rio de Janeiro, RJ, 22281-035, Brasil +55 (21) 9695-2263 +55 (21) 2266-0597 www.blackbean.com.br Esta mensagem pode conter informação confidencial e/ou privilegiada. Se você não for o destinatário ou a pessoa autorizada a receber esta mensagem, não pode usar, copiar ou divulgar as informações nela contidas ou tomar qualquer ação baseada nessas informações. Se você recebeu esta mensagem por engano, por favor avise imediatamente o remetente, respondendo o e-mail e em seguida apague-o. Agradecemos sua cooperação. This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Dec 17, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Martijn Tonies wrote: John, Another read on the subject: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/12/10/the-case-against-the-case-against-oracle-mysql/ Enjoy. With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com I see some of your point Martin but I think the eu would look at that letter and see the author is stating 'MySQL has been used as a pricing lever'. That single factor should be enough for them to be very concerned by an acquisition as removing an effective pricing lever from the market by acquisition is anti-competitive and helps increase or maintain high prices. I don't believe you could use any other open source database as a pricing lever in the same way because none are as mature or offer the levels of support that MySQL does and no other open source system can boast the performance benefits (especially with ndbcluster) or the availability of suitably trained and certified people to support their products. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=brunomagalh...@blackbean.com.br -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
It's still not too late to save MySQL and everyone that is using MySQL can help making a real difference. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Regards, Monty Guess you don't want them to write letters like this? http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-open-letter-to-european-competition.html With regards, Martijn Tonies Upscene Productions http://www.upscene.com Download Database Workbench for Oracle, MS SQL Server, Sybase SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird! Database questions? Check the forum: http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Hi! Facundo == Facundo Garat fga...@strixsolutions.com writes: Facundo i don't really thinks this is about open source or not. Agree, this has to do about competition and that Oracle, the leader in revenue for databases are trying to buy MySQL, the leader in users just to kill it off. Facundo MySQL became more closed when Sun bought it and while i think that Facundo Oracle will try to get this even more closed IMO it's time to fork it as Facundo a really open source project. Monty could lead this. The are a lot of Facundo forks around that make MySQL even better that it is from SUN. I have already done a fork, MariaDB. This was done to engage the community that MySQL AB and Sun has been neglecting into MySQL development. The problem with a fork of an infrastructure program like GPL is that it can only survive if the owner of the copyright has good intentions, like Sun has. With Oracle as a copyright owner, there is very little chance for a fork to survice. I have written an analyse of this at: http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html The promises that Oracle has done regarding MySQL are not enough to protect MySQL from being killed as an Open Source project; When you analyse them, they are actually promising very little now and nothing after 5 years! It's still not too late to save MySQL and everyone that is using MySQL can help making a real difference. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Regards, Monty -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Michael Widenius wrote: Hi! Facundo == Facundo Garat fga...@strixsolutions.com writes: Facundo i don't really thinks this is about open source or not. Agree, this has to do about competition and that Oracle, the leader in revenue for databases are trying to buy MySQL, the leader in users just to kill it off. Facundo MySQL became more closed when Sun bought it and while i think that Facundo Oracle will try to get this even more closed IMO it's time to fork it as Facundo a really open source project. Monty could lead this. The are a lot of Facundo forks around that make MySQL even better that it is from SUN. I have already done a fork, MariaDB. This was done to engage the community that MySQL AB and Sun has been neglecting into MySQL development. The problem with a fork of an infrastructure program like GPL is that it can only survive if the owner of the copyright has good intentions, like Sun has. With Oracle as a copyright owner, there is very little chance for a fork to survice. I have written an analyse of this at: http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model- of-mysql-or.html The promises that Oracle has done regarding MySQL are not enough to protect MySQL from being killed as an Open Source project; When you analyse them, they are actually promising very little now and nothing after 5 years! It's still not too late to save MySQL and everyone that is using MySQL can help making a real difference. Please visit http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html and write a message to EC! Regards, Monty I really agree with you. Even though the dumb regulators in my country refuse to prevent this purchase. I am really worried about OpenOffice and VirtualBox also. I've used MySQL since my system ran Windows ME, even though it was not supposed to run under ME. I have been exclusively Linux (openSUSE) since 1999. I only have VirtualBox so i can run TurboTax once a year. I've worked with oracle and I would never trust them. Can your fork run concurently with MySQl and what is the link to it? I did send an email to the EU even though it will not help this country. -- Russ [openSUSE 11.2 (2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop, x86_64] KDE 4.3.4 release 2, Intel Core 2 Dual E7200, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 8400 GS, 320GB Disc (2) -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Claudio Nanni wrote: If he really cared about MySQL he would have not sold it or prevent from selling it to Sun. Initially her was convinced that MySQL as a division of Sun would really benefit the future of MySQL [1]. Obviously his relationship with Sun changed a bit later on. It shows that he really cared about MySQL and in his own way, he still cares for MySQL. This has nothing to do with earning money or selling things. People sell things to companies or other people and think that the new owner will be good for the product they cared about. Sometimes it doesn't work out like you think it would and to me it shows that someone still cares about that product if they try to do something about it. I am not talking about agreeing with mr. Widenius or not; that is a different discussion. [1] http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3760831/MySQL+Back+to+Its+Roots+via+Sun.htm Regard, Jigal. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
Claudio Nanni wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in (...) This isn't about Monty or how much he earns. This is about protecting MySQL and open source, without which many of us wouldn't have a job. and besides, having dedicated 27 years of his life to MySQL I think he earned every last penny! === John Daisley MySQL 5.0 Certified Database Administrator (CMDBA) MySQL 5.0 Certified Developer Cognos BI Developer Telephone: +44(0)1283 537111 Mobile: +44(0)7812 451238 Email: john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk === Sent via HP IPAQ mobile device -Original Message- From: Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com Sent: 14 December 2009 06:30 To: mo...@askmonty.org Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in 2008 (16.8 million € total income), making the top 10 of highest earners in Finland that year. [wikipedia] Cheers Claudio Nanni Michael Widenius wrote: Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes. This not only scares but actually hurts Oracle every day. Oracle salespeople have to lower prices all the time to compete with MySQL when companies start new projects. Some companies even migrate existing projects from Oracle to MySQL to save money. Of course Oracle has a lot more features, but MySQL can already do a lot of things for which Oracle is often used and helps people save a lot of money. Over time MySQL can do to Oracle what the originally belittled Linux did to commercial Unix (roughly speaking). So I just don't buy it that Oracle will be a good home for MySQL. A weak MySQL is worth about one billion dollars per year to Oracle, maybe more. A strong MySQL could never generate enough income for Oracle that they would want to cannibalize their real cash cow. I don't think any company has ever done anything like that. That's why the EC is skeptical and formalized its objections about a month ago. Richard Stallman agrees that it's very important which company owns MySQL, that Oracle should not be allowed to buy it and that it can't just be taken care of by a community of volunteers: http://keionline.org/ec-mysql Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner) that: - They keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license - Not add
Re: Help saving MySQL
Thank you John, You have hit on my point exactly. There are thousands on companies and 100's of thousands of jobs which are owed to this product. That is what we are defending. - michael dykman On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:27 AM, John Daisley mg_s...@hotmail.com wrote: Claudio Nanni wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in (...) This isn't about Monty or how much he earns. This is about protecting MySQL and open source, without which many of us wouldn't have a job. and besides, having dedicated 27 years of his life to MySQL I think he earned every last penny! === John Daisley MySQL 5.0 Certified Database Administrator (CMDBA) MySQL 5.0 Certified Developer Cognos BI Developer Telephone: +44(0)1283 537111 Mobile: +44(0)7812 451238 Email: john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk === Sent via HP IPAQ mobile device -Original Message- From: Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com Sent: 14 December 2009 06:30 To: mo...@askmonty.org Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in 2008 (16.8 million € total income), making the top 10 of highest earners in Finland that year. [wikipedia] Cheers Claudio Nanni Michael Widenius wrote: Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes. This not only scares but actually hurts Oracle every day. Oracle salespeople have to lower prices all the time to compete with MySQL when companies start new projects. Some companies even migrate existing projects from Oracle to MySQL to save money. Of course Oracle has a lot more features, but MySQL can already do a lot of things for which Oracle is often used and helps people save a lot of money. Over time MySQL can do to Oracle what the originally belittled Linux did to commercial Unix (roughly speaking). So I just don't buy it that Oracle will be a good home for MySQL. A weak MySQL is worth about one billion dollars per year to Oracle, maybe more. A strong MySQL could never generate enough income for Oracle that they would want to cannibalize their real cash cow. I don't think any company has ever done anything like that. That's why the EC is skeptical and formalized its objections about a month ago. Richard Stallman agrees
Re: Help saving MySQL
i don't really thinks this is about open source or not. MySQL became more closed when Sun bought it and while i think that Oracle will try to get this even more closed IMO it's time to fork it as a really open source project. Monty could lead this. The are a lot of forks around that make MySQL even better that it is from SUN. All MySQL's Admin and developers will still get there jobs even with Oracle around, and maybe make more money of it. Linux situation in Oracle will change if Solaris became part of Oracle Umbrella as Oracle will push Solaris as there main operating system because it will get his proprietary software in all the stack. This is a good time to prove that OSS is really opensource and can survive this situation. Facundo. the difference between God and Larry Elison is that God doesn't think he is Larry Ellison ps: sorry my bad english, not my native language On 14/12/2009 02:09 p.m., Michael Dykman wrote: Thank you John, You have hit on my point exactly. There are thousands on companies and 100's of thousands of jobs which are owed to this product. That is what we are defending. - michael dykman On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:27 AM, John Daisleymg_s...@hotmail.com wrote: Claudio Nanni wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in (...) This isn't about Monty or how much he earns. This is about protecting MySQL and open source, without which many of us wouldn't have a job. and besides, having dedicated 27 years of his life to MySQL I think he earned every last penny! === John Daisley MySQL 5.0 Certified Database Administrator (CMDBA) MySQL 5.0 Certified Developer Cognos BI Developer Telephone: +44(0)1283 537111 Mobile: +44(0)7812 451238 Email: john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk === Sent via HP IPAQ mobile device -Original Message- From: Claudio Nanniclaudio.na...@gmail.com Sent: 14 December 2009 06:30 To: mo...@askmonty.org Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gainshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in 2008 (16.8 million € total income), making the top 10 of highest earners in Finland that year. [wikipedia] Cheers Claudio Nanni Michael Widenius wrote: Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes
Re: Help saving MySQL
On 12/14/09 1:49 AM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: If he really cared about MySQL he would have not sold it or prevent from selling it to Sun. i don't see the logic in this sentence. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
On 12/13/09 11:23 AM, Neil Aggarwal n...@jammconsulting.com wrote: Doug: I do not see anyone willing to put up anything to support mysql... you don't like it... put up a billion dollars an take control or shut the heck up! Assuming MySQL as it stands today is 100% open source, I think an easier path is to create a new project from the currently existing sources. Call it something else, dbXYZ for instance. Then, Oracle can do anything it wants to MySQL. I am pretty sure if Michael leads the project, the open source community will follow. Can that be done or did I miss something? i think it can be done. If that is the case, what can Oracle really do to hurt MySQL? my guess is that it would be better if mysql did not need to fork. the harm would be the confusion caused to users. it would be sad if users chose not to use mysql because they had listened to scare stories about its possible future. if trust busters can be cajoled into making sure oracle doesn't harm oss mysql, that would be better. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
You build a green park where children can play. Then you sell the park to a private company. The company can: not mantain it so that the park becomes junkies place, have people pay to access it or even close it. I, the builder, would not start a crusade or weep after I have sold it, Once it is on the market it is like any other goods. I am on MySQL almost ten years but I am not scared of switching to Postgres, to a fork, start a new project, or quit dba for other real open source spirit journey. The community and open spirit is important not the product. Thats my view. Thanks Monty, always, for your gift. Claudio On 14 dec 2009 19:36, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: On 12/14/09 1:49 AM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: If he really cared about My... i don't see the logic in this sentence.
Re: Help saving MySQL
and thanks for sharing your view. here's mine: mysql was sold to sun, a company with a long and deep commitment to oos. while there were obviously risks to the sale, one plausible motive (among others) is that a company like sun would be better placed to further develop, market and support mysql, get it into the hands of more users (sun is a trusted name even among the conservative and risk-averse parts of the market), leverage their service and support organization, etc. and if they can make money off it then maybe they will invest in development too. so i see it as reasonable to have believed that sun would be good for mysql, indeed that sun would be good next step for mysql in its journey. hence i don't see that this sale necessarily implies that monty did not really care about mysql. i'm not advocating these arguments. i'm simply saying that, whether one agrees with such arguments or not, there could plausibly exist conditions under which sale of mysql to sun was compatible with really caring about it. On 12/14/09 2:11 PM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: You build a green park where children can play. Then you sell the park to a private company. The company can: not mantain it so that the park becomes junkies place, have people pay to access it or even close it. I, the builder, would not start a crusade or weep after I have sold it, Once it is on the market it is like any other goods. I am on MySQL almost ten years but I am not scared of switching to Postgres, to a fork, start a new project, or quit dba for other real open source spirit journey. The community and open spirit is important not the product. Thats my view. Thanks Monty, always, for your gift. Claudio On 14 dec 2009 19:36, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: On 12/14/09 1:49 AM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: If he really cared about My... i don't see the logic in this sentence. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
I think we are on the same line, I put it to excess to spotlight the crucial point, how it was based on the 'good will' of Sun, which I simply adhore and thank only for existing I was actually happy when that happened because with Sun, MySQL was perfectly fitting in the big picture of Sun products, and could have had the big jump integrating it with some application server / framework (glassfish, j2ee, etc). But big fish eat small fish, and once you are in the ocean.run! Thanks Tom Claudio Tom Worster wrote: and thanks for sharing your view. here's mine: mysql was sold to sun, a company with a long and deep commitment to oos. while there were obviously risks to the sale, one plausible motive (among others) is that a company like sun would be better placed to further develop, market and support mysql, get it into the hands of more users (sun is a trusted name even among the conservative and risk-averse parts of the market), leverage their service and support organization, etc. and if they can make money off it then maybe they will invest in development too. so i see it as reasonable to have believed that sun would be good for mysql, indeed that sun would be good next step for mysql in its journey. hence i don't see that this sale necessarily implies that monty did not really care about mysql. i'm not advocating these arguments. i'm simply saying that, whether one agrees with such arguments or not, there could plausibly exist conditions under which sale of mysql to sun was compatible with really caring about it. On 12/14/09 2:11 PM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: You build a green park where children can play. Then you sell the park to a private company. The company can: not mantain it so that the park becomes junkies place, have people pay to access it or even close it. I, the builder, would not start a crusade or weep after I have sold it, Once it is on the market it is like any other goods. I am on MySQL almost ten years but I am not scared of switching to Postgres, to a fork, start a new project, or quit dba for other real open source spirit journey. The community and open spirit is important not the product. Thats my view. Thanks Monty, always, for your gift. Claudio On 14 dec 2009 19:36, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: On 12/14/09 1:49 AM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: If he really cared about My... i don't see the logic in this sentence. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
MySQL is a huge and trusted brand, yes you could run with a fork but at the end of the day it will never be MySQL. Its that MySQL brand name which sells the underlying software, support packages, books, training, certifications and the services of a huge number of Sun and independent consultants. There are already a few forks out there but you rarely hear about them because they are not MySQL. MySQL is more than just some code, its hundreds of developers, its a huge community, its this list, its a trusted brand name, etc, etc, etc. Theres so many things which make MySQL what it is and you could copy every last line of code into a fork, give it a fancy name and spend millions on advertising and promotion but you still won't have anything even close to MySQL. The MySQL code will always survive in some form, regardless of who owns it but MySQL could be coming to an end if we don't support it. === John Daisley MySQL 5.0 Certified Database Administrator (CMDBA) MySQL 5.0 Certified Developer Cognos BI Developer Telephone: +44(0)1283 537111 Mobile: +44(0)7812 451238 Email: john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk === Sent via HP IPAQ mobile device -Original Message- From: Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org Sent: 14 December 2009 20:02 To: claudio.na...@gmail.com Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: Help saving MySQL and thanks for sharing your view. here's mine: mysql was sold to sun, a company with a long and deep commitment to oos. while there were obviously risks to the sale, one plausible motive (among others) is that a company like sun would be better placed to further develop, market and support mysql, get it into the hands of more users (sun is a trusted name even among the conservative and risk-averse parts of the market), leverage their service and support organization, etc. and if they can make money off it then maybe they will invest in development too. so i see it as reasonable to have believed that sun would be good for mysql, indeed that sun would be good next step for mysql in its journey. hence i don't see that this sale necessarily implies that monty did not really care about mysql. i'm not advocating these arguments. i'm simply saying that, whether one agrees with such arguments or not, there could plausibly exist conditions under which sale of mysql to sun was compatible with really caring about it. On 12/14/09 2:11 PM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: You build a green park where children can play. Then you sell the park to a private company. The company can: not mantain it so that the park becomes junkies place, have people pay to access it or even close it. I, the builder, would not start a crusade or weep after I have sold it, Once it is on the market it is like any other goods. I am on MySQL almost ten years but I am not scared of switching to Postgres, to a fork, start a new project, or quit dba for other real open source spirit journey. The community and open spirit is important not the product. Thats my view. Thanks Monty, always, for your gift. Claudio On 14 dec 2009 19:36, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: On 12/14/09 1:49 AM, Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com wrote: If he really cared about My... i don't see the logic in this sentence. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=john.dais...@butterflysystems.co.uk -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
Yeah, plus just think about all those job sites and resumes that would have to change from LAMP Developer to LAxP Developer if MySQL forked and changed names! Myself included. All those poor recruiters would need to be trained to know that dbXYZ == MySQL. LOL. How many LADP Developsers do you ever hear about?! ;-) (for those that live in a cave, the D would be for http://drizzle.org/;) ;-) -Original Message- From: John Daisley [mailto:mg_s...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:52 PM To: f...@thefsb.org ; claudio.na...@gmail.com Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: RE: Help saving MySQL MySQL is a huge and trusted brand, yes you could run with a fork but at the end of the day it will never be MySQL. Its that MySQL brand name which sells the underlying software, support packages, books, training, certifications and the services of a huge number of Sun and independent consultants. There are already a few forks out there but you rarely hear about them because they are not MySQL. MySQL is more than just some code, its hundreds of developers, its a huge community, its this list, its a trusted brand name, etc, etc, etc. Theres so many things which make MySQL what it is and you could copy every last line of code into a fork, give it a fancy name and spend millions on advertising and promotion but you still won't have anything even close to MySQL. The MySQL code will always survive in some form, regardless of who owns it but MySQL could be coming to an end if we don't support it. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org : my guess is that it would be better if mysql did not need to fork. the harm would be the confusion caused to users. I really dont think it is a problem. _Users_ lazzy to follow the fork will stay with MySQL under Oracle. _Users_ less lazzy will switch. Developpers will always know what to do. -- Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat: Administration Systeme, Recherche Developpement +261 34 29 155 34 / +261 33 11 207 36 -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
h... All this is what might happen...that true...But yet I do not see anyone willing to put up anything to support mysql... you don't like it... put up a billion dollars an take control or shut the heck up! Doug Ryan Chan wrote: On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Michael Dykmanmdyk...@gmail.com wrote: I hope the only reason this thread is so quiet is because we are all busy notifying our friends. There are a hell of a lot more users invested in MySQL than those who read this list. Spread the word! Let's stand up today to face the evil! -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=douglas.nel...@sun.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
Doug: I do not see anyone willing to put up anything to support mysql... you don't like it... put up a billion dollars an take control or shut the heck up! Assuming MySQL as it stands today is 100% open source, I think an easier path is to create a new project from the currently existing sources. Call it something else, dbXYZ for instance. Then, Oracle can do anything it wants to MySQL. I am pretty sure if Michael leads the project, the open source community will follow. Can that be done or did I miss something? If that is the case, what can Oracle really do to hurt MySQL? I am not against what Micheal is proposing. I already sent my letter to the EC. I am asking this for my own edification. Thanks, Neil -- Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, http://UnmeteredVPS.net Host your MySQL database on a CentOS VPS for $25/mo Unmetered bandwidth = no overage charges, 7 day free trial -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
I am astonished that this attitude could exist in the open source world. MySQL has *always* been open source, since the early days when it was a handful of us lurking on Monty's mailing list waiting breathlessly for the next feature to be released so we could release the projects we had built against them. I was in the Msql camp when the author of that pioneering product (Bambi?) retired the project and Monty graciously agreed to absorb the tool set into MySql. This involved the stewardship of a few thousand lines of C.. but this decision allowed 10's of thousands of web developers to keep building the 5 and dime sites that evolved the modern web. The whole bloody point of open source software, and I do mean the whole bloody point is that *everybody* has access to the core software they need with no cost beyond that of making the effort to learn to use it. Everyone can contribute and those contributions are evaluated on technical considerations alone. It is true democracy. It is a technological movement which has done as much to put real power into the hands of everyday people as 200 years of social movements have accomplished. Are we such sheep that we leave this in the hands of the highest bidder? - michael dykman On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Neil Aggarwal n...@jammconsulting.com wrote: Doug: I do not see anyone willing to put up anything to support mysql... you don't like it... put up a billion dollars an take control or shut the heck up! Assuming MySQL as it stands today is 100% open source, I think an easier path is to create a new project from the currently existing sources. Call it something else, dbXYZ for instance. Then, Oracle can do anything it wants to MySQL. I am pretty sure if Michael leads the project, the open source community will follow. Can that be done or did I miss something? If that is the case, what can Oracle really do to hurt MySQL? I am not against what Micheal is proposing. I already sent my letter to the EC. I am asking this for my own edification. Thanks, Neil -- Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, http://UnmeteredVPS.net Host your MySQL database on a CentOS VPS for $25/mo Unmetered bandwidth = no overage charges, 7 day free trial -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=mdyk...@gmail.com -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May you live every day of your life. Jonathan Swift Larry's First Law of Language Redesign: Everyone wants the colon. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com : Are we such sheep that we leave this in the hands of the highest bidder? I dont understand: Dont'you like the idea of forking? Why exactly? -- Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat: Administration Systeme, Recherche Developpement +261 34 29 155 34 / +261 33 11 207 36 -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in 2008 (16.8 million € total income), making the top 10 of highest earners in Finland that year. [wikipedia] Cheers Claudio Nanni Michael Widenius wrote: Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes. This not only scares but actually hurts Oracle every day. Oracle salespeople have to lower prices all the time to compete with MySQL when companies start new projects. Some companies even migrate existing projects from Oracle to MySQL to save money. Of course Oracle has a lot more features, but MySQL can already do a lot of things for which Oracle is often used and helps people save a lot of money. Over time MySQL can do to Oracle what the originally belittled Linux did to commercial Unix (roughly speaking). So I just don't buy it that Oracle will be a good home for MySQL. A weak MySQL is worth about one billion dollars per year to Oracle, maybe more. A strong MySQL could never generate enough income for Oracle that they would want to cannibalize their real cash cow. I don't think any company has ever done anything like that. That's why the EC is skeptical and formalized its objections about a month ago. Richard Stallman agrees that it's very important which company owns MySQL, that Oracle should not be allowed to buy it and that it can't just be taken care of by a community of volunteers: http://keionline.org/ec-mysql Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner) that: - They keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license - Not add closed source parts, modules or required tools. - To not rise MySQL license or MySQL support prices - To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner. - To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them (to storage vendors and application vendors) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license - To develop MySQL as an Open Source project - To actively work with the community - Apply submitted patches in a timely manner - Not discriminate patches that makes MySQL compete more with Oracles other products. - To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracles' main offering. From looking at how Oracle handled the InnoDB acquisition, I don't have high hopes that Oracle will do the above right if not required to do so: For InnoDB: - Bug fixes where done (but this was done under a contractual obligation) - New
Re: Help saving MySQL
Claudio Nanni wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in (...) I fail to see the relevance of this quote for this thread... Regards, Jigal. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
If he really cared about MySQL he would have not sold it or prevent from selling it to Sun. Cheers Claudio Jigal van Hemert wrote: Claudio Nanni wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in (...) I fail to see the relevance of this quote for this thread... Regards, Jigal. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
RE: Help saving MySQL
Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in So, he got paid for his contribution to the world. Is that so bad? MySQL has allowed people to make much more money than that. It is a small amount of the worldwide earnings from on the product he created. Neil -- Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, http://UnmeteredVPS.net Host your MySQL database on a CentOS VPS for $25/mo Unmetered bandwidth = no overage charges, 7 day free trial -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Totally agree. But in the moment you sell something you lose control on it, and one of the more or less foreseeable risks is exactly what is happening, and worst nightmare become truth. Cheers Claudio Neil Aggarwal wrote: Due to selling MySQL to Sun, Widenius earned about 16.6 million € in capital gains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain in So, he got paid for his contribution to the world. Is that so bad? MySQL has allowed people to make much more money than that. It is a small amount of the worldwide earnings from on the product he created. Neil -- Neil Aggarwal, (281)846-8957, http://UnmeteredVPS.net Host your MySQL database on a CentOS VPS for $25/mo Unmetered bandwidth = no overage charges, 7 day free trial -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Help saving MySQL
Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes. This not only scares but actually hurts Oracle every day. Oracle salespeople have to lower prices all the time to compete with MySQL when companies start new projects. Some companies even migrate existing projects from Oracle to MySQL to save money. Of course Oracle has a lot more features, but MySQL can already do a lot of things for which Oracle is often used and helps people save a lot of money. Over time MySQL can do to Oracle what the originally belittled Linux did to commercial Unix (roughly speaking). So I just don't buy it that Oracle will be a good home for MySQL. A weak MySQL is worth about one billion dollars per year to Oracle, maybe more. A strong MySQL could never generate enough income for Oracle that they would want to cannibalize their real cash cow. I don't think any company has ever done anything like that. That's why the EC is skeptical and formalized its objections about a month ago. Richard Stallman agrees that it's very important which company owns MySQL, that Oracle should not be allowed to buy it and that it can't just be taken care of by a community of volunteers: http://keionline.org/ec-mysql Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner) that: - They keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license - Not add closed source parts, modules or required tools. - To not rise MySQL license or MySQL support prices - To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner. - To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them (to storage vendors and application vendors) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license - To develop MySQL as an Open Source project - To actively work with the community - Apply submitted patches in a timely manner - Not discriminate patches that makes MySQL compete more with Oracles other products. - To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracles' main offering. From looking at how Oracle handled the InnoDB acquisition, I don't have high hopes that Oracle will do the above right if not required to do so: For InnoDB: - Bug fixes where done (but this was done under a contractual obligation) - New features, like compression that was announced before acquisition, took 3 years to implement - No time tables or insight into development - The community where not allowed to participate in development - Patches from users (like Google) that would have increased performance
Re: Help saving MySQL
I hope the only reason this thread is so quiet is because we are all busy notifying our friends. There are a hell of a lot more users invested in MySQL than those who read this list. Spread the word! Monty is not asking us to help him: he is asking you to help yourselves. MySQL has never been more important than it is today! - michael dykman On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Michael Widenius michael.widen...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Help saving MySQL from Oracle! I, Michael Monty Widenius, the creator of MySQL, is asking you urgently to help save MySQL from Oracle's clutches. Without your immediate help Oracle might get to own MySQL any day now. By writing to the European Commission (EC) you can support this cause and make things much harder for Oracle. What this text is about: - Summary of what is happening - What Oracle has not promised - Oracles past behavior with Open Source - Help spread this information (Jump to 'What I want to ask you to do') - Example of email to send to the commission (Jump to 'send this to:') I have spent the last 27 years creating and working on MySQL and I hope, together with my team of MySQL core developers, to work on it for many more years. Oracle is trying to buy Sun, and since Sun bought MySQL last year, Oracle would then own MySQL. With your support, there is a good chance that the EC (from which Oracle needs approval) could prevent this from happening. Without your support, it might not. The EC is our last big hope now because the US government approved the deal while Europe is still worried about the effects. Instead of just working out this with the EC and agree on appropriate remedies to correct the situation, Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal. According what I been told, Oracle has promised to the customers, among other things, that they will put more money into MySQL development than what Sun did and that if they would ever abandon MYSQL, a fork will appear and take care of things. However just putting money into development is not proof that anything useful will ever be delivered or that MySQL will continue to be a competitive force in the market as it's now. As I already blogged about before, http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html, a fork is not enough to keep MySQL alive for all future, if Oracle, as the copyright holder of MySQL, would at any point decide that they should kill MySQL or make parts of MySQL closed source. Oracle claims that it would take good care of MySQL but let's face the facts: Unlike ten years ago, when MySQL was mostly just used for the web, it has become very functional, scalable and credible. Now it's used in many of the world's largest companies and they use it for an increasing number of purposes. This not only scares but actually hurts Oracle every day. Oracle salespeople have to lower prices all the time to compete with MySQL when companies start new projects. Some companies even migrate existing projects from Oracle to MySQL to save money. Of course Oracle has a lot more features, but MySQL can already do a lot of things for which Oracle is often used and helps people save a lot of money. Over time MySQL can do to Oracle what the originally belittled Linux did to commercial Unix (roughly speaking). So I just don't buy it that Oracle will be a good home for MySQL. A weak MySQL is worth about one billion dollars per year to Oracle, maybe more. A strong MySQL could never generate enough income for Oracle that they would want to cannibalize their real cash cow. I don't think any company has ever done anything like that. That's why the EC is skeptical and formalized its objections about a month ago. Richard Stallman agrees that it's very important which company owns MySQL, that Oracle should not be allowed to buy it and that it can't just be taken care of by a community of volunteers: http://keionline.org/ec-mysql Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner) that: - They keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license - Not add closed source parts, modules or required tools. - To not rise MySQL license or MySQL support prices - To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner. - To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them (to storage vendors and application vendors) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license - To develop MySQL as an Open Source project - To actively work with the community - Apply submitted patches in a timely manner - Not discriminate patches that makes MySQL compete more with Oracles other products. - To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracles' main offering. From looking at how
Re: Help saving MySQL
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: I hope the only reason this thread is so quiet is because we are all busy notifying our friends. There are a hell of a lot more users invested in MySQL than those who read this list. Spread the word! Let's stand up today to face the evil! -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: Help saving MySQL
Ryan Chan ryanchan...@gmail.com : On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: I hope the only reason this thread is so quiet is because we are all busy notifying our friends. There are a hell of a lot more users invested in MySQL than those who read this list. Spread the word! Let's stand up today to face the evil! Could people translate that message to the maximum available langages? -- Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat: Administration Systeme, Recherche Developpement +261 34 29 155 34 / +261 33 11 207 36 -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
