[neonixie-l] Re: Iv-11 vfd
Did you wire the tubes in series or only the resistor with the tubes parallel? The current through the filament is only 100mA which means the 62 ohm resistor only dissipates 0.62W if the 4 filaments are in series. If you wired them in parallel (400mA) and only use 1 series resistor the dissipated heat in the resistor would be 9.92W and the voltage across the resistor would be 24V which doesn't sounds right. So maybe you are doing something different all together. A drawing of your circuit would be helpful. Michel On Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:53:45 PM UTC+10, Spencer wrote: > > So I have been playing around with IV-11 VFDs and looking for some input. > For the filaments, I have tried using a MC34063 to generate the 1.25 volts > needed for it and then tried using a 62 ohm 3 watt resistor with 4 tubes in > series. > > The resistor generates a lot of heat so I am thinking of using a 5 watt. I > liked the MC34063 but it made it more complex than I think it needs to IMO. > > Just wondering what everyone has used for the filament. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/t8yGeMsM_mgJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Iv-11 vfd
Is 5V across the filament not too much? Spencer mentioned 1.25V and I found another circuit that had a 1.6V supply for the filament. http://www.tubeclockdb.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/IV_11.gif Michel On Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:01:21 PM UTC+10, figureloop wrote: > > > > On Friday, June 15, 2012 7:53:45 PM UTC-7, Spencer wrote: >> >> So I have been playing around with IV-11 VFDs and looking for some input. >> For the filaments, I have tried using a MC34063 to generate the 1.25 volts >> needed for it and then tried using a 62 ohm 3 watt resistor with 4 tubes in >> series. >> >> The resistor generates a lot of heat so I am thinking of using a 5 watt. >> I liked the MC34063 but it made it more complex than I think it needs to >> IMO. >> >> Just wondering what everyone has used for the filament. >> > I'm bringing up a board for powering VFDs including IV-11 and IV-17. For > filament power, I was determined to power them with true AC, but put off by > the high cost, large size, and difficulty of designing an efficient high > frequency transformer. A line powered transformer was also out of the > question. > > So I use a 5V powered complementary MOS half-bridge AC coupled to the > filament, with the other end of the filament tied to +5V. That way, the > average voltage of the filament is always +5V to create a negative grid > bias when the grid is at 0V. The driven end of the filament wiggles > between +2.5 and +7.5V, so never violates the negative bias of the grid. > That the average DC voltage across the filament is always +5V also ensures > an even brightness distribution over the anodes. > > To drive the half bridge, I have a pulse steering circuit using a > flip-flop and a pair of NOR gates. This can be driven with a 20-25kHz PWM > from a micro. Alternately, if the micro is smart enough to generate a > bipolar PWM with dead-time, the pulse steering logic may be omitted and the > MOS transistors driven directly, through a TC4428A complementary MOS gate > driver IC. I stuck that in there, because it also permits the V+ for the > filament power circuit to be powered from a higher voltage than +5V if > necessary, while still allowing the MOS devices to be controlled by a > 3.3-5V micro. > > Finally, there is also a place for a 555 timer IC on board, in case the > PWM is desired to be made entirely on board, without needing the micro. > > Ultimately, with a micro smart enough to generate the full gate drive > signals, my circuit consists of only a TC4428A, a little SOIC-8 > complementary MOSFET IC, and a 150uF Panasonic FM or FR series electrolytic > coupling cap. You could probably even omit the gate driver IC for the > IV-11. And this circuit avoids the pitfalls of DC filament drive. > > I was also worried about electromigration shortening the filament life if > driven by DC. But I suspect that at the relatively low temperature of the > filament, this may not be a concern. Maybe some tube experts here can > comment on this. > > Well, there I've spilled my secret filament circuit. Maybe someone will > go and patent it now and sue me to prevent me from using it! Such is the > world. > > P.S. I despise the patent system. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/BbVno33vXkoJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Iv-11 vfd
OK, i see now. I was reading "the average voltage of the filament is +5V" and implemented that as the average voltage across the filament :-). What a difference 1 word can make.... Michel On Saturday, June 16, 2012 3:38:18 PM UTC+10, figureloop wrote: > > Michel, > > In my ckt, +5V is the average DC voltage of the whole filament relative to > common or ground. The potential applied to the ends of the filament is > only AC, at 1.2 to 1.5 VAC. +5VDC across the filament would make it light > up like a lightbulb, and probably burn out quickly. > > Again, my +5V is a bias voltage of the whole filament, relative to the > ground. This means, that when the grid is at 0V, the grid is actually -5V > relative to the cathode filament, which is the desired cutoff condition to > prevent any weak electron emission toward the anodes when the tube is > supposed to be shut off by the grid. > > Good day! > > On Friday, June 15, 2012 10:08:25 PM UTC-7, Michel wrote: >> >> Is 5V across the filament not too much? Spencer mentioned 1.25V and I >> found another circuit that had a 1.6V supply for the filament. >> >> >> http://www.tubeclockdb.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/IV_11.gif >> >> >> Michel >> >> >> On Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:01:21 PM UTC+10, figureloop wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, June 15, 2012 7:53:45 PM UTC-7, Spencer wrote: >>>> >>>> So I have been playing around with IV-11 VFDs and looking for some >>>> input. For the filaments, I have tried using a MC34063 to generate the >>>> 1.25 >>>> volts needed for it and then tried using a 62 ohm 3 watt resistor with 4 >>>> tubes in series. >>>> >>>> The resistor generates a lot of heat so I am thinking of using a 5 >>>> watt. I liked the MC34063 but it made it more complex than I think it >>>> needs >>>> to IMO. >>>> >>>> Just wondering what everyone has used for the filament. >>>> >>> I'm bringing up a board for powering VFDs including IV-11 and IV-17. >>> For filament power, I was determined to power them with true AC, but put >>> off by the high cost, large size, and difficulty of designing an efficient >>> high frequency transformer. A line powered transformer was also out of the >>> question. >>> >>> So I use a 5V powered complementary MOS half-bridge AC coupled to the >>> filament, with the other end of the filament tied to +5V. That way, the >>> average voltage of the filament is always +5V to create a negative grid >>> bias when the grid is at 0V. The driven end of the filament wiggles >>> between +2.5 and +7.5V, so never violates the negative bias of the grid. >>> That the average DC voltage across the filament is always +5V also ensures >>> an even brightness distribution over the anodes. >>> >>> To drive the half bridge, I have a pulse steering circuit using a >>> flip-flop and a pair of NOR gates. This can be driven with a 20-25kHz PWM >>> from a micro. Alternately, if the micro is smart enough to generate a >>> bipolar PWM with dead-time, the pulse steering logic may be omitted and the >>> MOS transistors driven directly, through a TC4428A complementary MOS gate >>> driver IC. I stuck that in there, because it also permits the V+ for the >>> filament power circuit to be powered from a higher voltage than +5V if >>> necessary, while still allowing the MOS devices to be controlled by a >>> 3.3-5V micro. >>> >>> Finally, there is also a place for a 555 timer IC on board, in case the >>> PWM is desired to be made entirely on board, without needing the micro. >>> >>> Ultimately, with a micro smart enough to generate the full gate drive >>> signals, my circuit consists of only a TC4428A, a little SOIC-8 >>> complementary MOSFET IC, and a 150uF Panasonic FM or FR series electrolytic >>> coupling cap. You could probably even omit the gate driver IC for the >>> IV-11. And this circuit avoids the pitfalls of DC filament drive. >>> >>> I was also worried about electromigration shortening the filament life >>> if driven by DC. But I suspect that at the relatively low temperature of >>> the filament, this may not be a concern. Maybe some tube experts here can >>> comment on this. >>> >>> Well, there I've spilled my secret filament circuit. Maybe someone will >>> go and patent it now and sue me to prevent me from using it! Such is the >>> world. >>> >>> P.S. I despise the patent system. >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/ory6UBNvMqMJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Iv-11 vfd
It should work fine if you choose for R11 & R12 something around 27-33 ohm / 0.5W. It's not as nice a solution as the one "figureloop" described though. I don't see any feedback to regulate your HV supply. it might go sky-rocket high if no (or only a few) segments are on, or do you control that in the software? Michel On Saturday, June 16, 2012 6:38:50 PM UTC+10, Spencer wrote: > > This is my circuit. Dont laugh as it is actually my first one. :) i > changed the filament from 12v to 5v and made two filament circuits to help > with the brightness > > > http://s1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh540/upnxwood16/?action=view¤t=de67f0ad.jpg&evt=user_media_share<http://s1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh540/upnxwood16/?action=view¤t=de67f0ad.jpg&evt=user_media_share> > > Sent from my iPhone > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/N5rpM9fzmR8J. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Iv-11 vfd
I think I would put a 5W zener diode (60-70V) across the high voltage so that it won't fry the HV5812 driver in case something goes wrong in regulating the voltage. Michel On Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:06:20 PM UTC+10, Spencer wrote: > > I control that through the software, it's set to 50 volts. Thank you for > the help. :D > > Sent from my iPhone > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/LkIGcWXfJgoJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie watch redesign nearly done
I respect your design, I like it when people stick to what they believe in. I think it is really thin, I come to around 17mm as the cases were slightly oversized, should be 16.5mm when everything is done properly. Do you use a special waterproof USB connector? Michel On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:33:14 PM UTC+10, nixiebunny wrote: > > Some more renders... > http://www.cathodecorner.com/nwl-render/nwlra-back.jpg > http://www.cathodecorner.com/nwl-render/nwlra-front.jpg > http://www.cathodecorner.com/nwl-render/nwlra-oblique.jpg > http://www.cathodecorner.com/nwl-render/nwlra-side.jpg > > This is the one that I'm getting a PC board made for. I will produce a > few in 3D-printed plastic cases to see how they work. > > It has a 1 month rechargeable battery using a standard USB micro port. > There are buttons to set the time. Otherwise, it's electrically > identical to the previous version. > > I ended up using standard rigid PC board, since it's a lot easier to > make a non-flimsy module with it, and I found that I could cram the CPU > and tube drivers on the socket board by switching to a QFN packaged PIC. > So the layout is also quite similar to the old version, just squarer. > > The case is a bit taller than I'd like, because the low-profile 2mm SMT > socket strips that I would prefer to use as tube sockets are difficult > to come by. I may yet place an order with Samtec or FCI and get a bunch. > As it is, I'm using standard 4.5mm tall socket strips. > > But I was able to keep the thickness down to 16mm. > -- > David Forbes, Tucson AZ > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/1OrTYkXbjZIJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
Really cool and very creative! Most of the work was making the chess board itself I think? You could always add a nixie chess-clock to go with the nixie chess board ;-) Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 4:30:38 AM UTC+10, Tony Adams wrote: > > Hi all, > > Hope you won't mind me spamming this here but I've finally completed > something nixie-based. > > I have a bad habit of building prototypes only to add to an ever- > growing list of 'features' which inevitably result in a completely new > design and software rewrite - so I decided to build something that > couldn't suffer from feature creep and wouldn't 'benefit' from > humidity sensors, GPS, USB, IR or RF remote or movement activation. > > Some pictures and a (not very good) video of it in operation can be > found here: > > http://www.lasermad.com/?p=235 > > Hmmm... a PIR sensor might just... I could easily add that to the > controller... and a touch switch to deactivate.. or maybe a Zigbee > > Tony. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/RWyexVoMEWkJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
Yes, that's what I mean. We call them chess-clocks but maybe the official name is chess timer, I don't know. They have 2 buttons at the top for starting one, stopping the other. That would be very cool I reckon. Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 8:26:58 AM UTC+10, Pramanicin wrote: > > Or a nixie tube chess timer! > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Michel wrote: > >> Really cool and very creative! >> >> Most of the work was making the chess board itself I think? >> >> You could always add a nixie chess-clock to go with the nixie chess board >> ;-) >> >> Michel >> >> >> >> On Friday, June 22, 2012 4:30:38 AM UTC+10, Tony Adams wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Hope you won't mind me spamming this here but I've finally completed >>> something nixie-based. >>> >>> I have a bad habit of building prototypes only to add to an ever- >>> growing list of 'features' which inevitably result in a completely new >>> design and software rewrite - so I decided to build something that >>> couldn't suffer from feature creep and wouldn't 'benefit' from >>> humidity sensors, GPS, USB, IR or RF remote or movement activation. >>> >>> Some pictures and a (not very good) video of it in operation can be >>> found here: >>> >>> http://www.lasermad.com/?p=235 >>> >>> Hmmm... a PIR sensor might just... I could easily add that to the >>> controller... and a touch switch to deactivate.. or maybe a Zigbee >>> >>> Tony. >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "neonixie-l" group. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/RWyexVoMEWkJ. >> >> To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/KvQfM-Gdaa0J. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
Not really, we just make him work harder :-) Add some copper piping here and there and you got yourself an amazing steampunk chess game! Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 9:03:01 AM UTC+10, OrangeGlow wrote: > > Now you've done it! He'll never finish it. ;-) > > Tom > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/hW-b275iJusJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
I think I would also try to let it run on rechargeable batteries and make it portable. I roughly estimated you need about 5W for all chess pieces which is not all that much. It only needs to operate for a few hours and when pieces disappear from the board, it will draw less power. Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 10:32:14 AM UTC+10, Tony Adams wrote: > > The chess timer idea did pop up at one point when it seemed it needed > more software, along with the idea of an extra 6 pieces with numeric > tubes that would be placed on the board to use it as a clock when it > wasn't in use for chess - but I managed to resist...;) > > Tony. > > > On Jun 22, 12:14 am, Michel wrote: > > Not really, we just make him work harder :-) > > > > Add some copper piping here and there and you got yourself an amazing > > steampunk chess game! > > > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, June 22, 2012 9:03:01 AM UTC+10, OrangeGlow wrote: > > > > > Now you've done it! He'll never finish it. ;-) > > > > > Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/He-gdWedDToJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
It sometimes pays off to check easy to get parts for something that may just do the job for you rather than winding all the coils yourself. You could check miniature solenoids or things like that, take them apart and see if you can get it working with the coils from the solenoids. Yeah, if your total circuit draws about 25W it will take a bit more effort to make it battery powered. An alternative is to have chess pieces with build-in rechargeable batteries. You could then charge the batteries through your induction system. Maybe it is possible to make a "charge plate" with say 4 or 5 coils that charges the 32 chess pieces. Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 4:10:50 PM UTC+10, Tidak Ada wrote: > > I should put copperwire in the kit, so the bulders can wind their coils > themselves. It's a part of the fun and doesn't degrade the kit not to an > IKEA item (including Allen-wrench ;-) ). > > An other possibility is to develop an simle winding machine > > eric > > > -Original Message- > From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Tony Adams > Sent: vrijdag 22 juni 2012 3:18 > To: neonixie-l > Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project... > > Thank you, I was aiming for a 'vintage' look while still being functional, > though it might look good with some copper or brass pipe railings around > the > edges to prevent pieces sliding off. > > I'll have to work out a realisitc price for a kit, it would be difficult > to > supply ready built at a sensible price due to the time it takes to > assemble > - after winding 96 coils you'll see why ;). > > Tony. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/xB2K0_YOUdAJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
Yes I know, I was just thinking of a way to make it portable without carrying a big battery. You could put reed switches inside the chess pieces and mount small magnets underneath each square of the chess board. That way they will also turn off when you lift them or put them aside. But however you look at it, the chess pieces will obviously become quite a bit bigger so that will probably take away the charm they have at the moment. Michel On Friday, June 22, 2012 7:20:21 PM UTC+10, Tidak Ada wrote: > > Tony's methode is most efficient: The tubes shut off, as soon as jou > lift them from the board, like a pen from a WACOM® tablet (also an > indication someone lift a piece from the board and he MUST move that piece). > How would you switch off the tubes in case of battery supply? (Don't say > they shut off automaticaly when the battery is empty... * :*•þ ) > > eric > > -- > *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Michel > *Sent:* vrijdag 22 juni 2012 10:43 > *To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project... > > It sometimes pays off to check easy to get parts for something that may > just do the job for you rather than winding all the coils yourself. You > could check miniature solenoids or things like that, take them apart and > see if you can get it working with the coils from the solenoids. > > Yeah, if your total circuit draws about 25W it will take a bit more effort > to make it battery powered. An alternative is to have chess pieces with > build-in rechargeable batteries. You could then charge the batteries > through your induction system. Maybe it is possible to make a "charge > plate" with say 4 or 5 coils that charges the 32 chess pieces. > > Michel > > > > On Friday, June 22, 2012 4:10:50 PM UTC+10, Tidak Ada wrote: >> >> I should put copperwire in the kit, so the bulders can wind their coils >> themselves. It's a part of the fun and doesn't degrade the kit not to an >> IKEA item (including Allen-wrench ;-) ). >> >> An other possibility is to develop an simle winding machine >> >> eric >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Tony Adams >> Sent: vrijdag 22 juni 2012 3:18 >> To: neonixie-l >> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project... >> >> Thank you, I was aiming for a 'vintage' look while still being >> functional, >> though it might look good with some copper or brass pipe railings around >> the >> edges to prevent pieces sliding off. >> >> I'll have to work out a realisitc price for a kit, it would be difficult >> to >> supply ready built at a sensible price due to the time it takes to >> assemble >> - after winding 96 coils you'll see why ;). >> >> Tony. >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/xB2K0_YOUdAJ. > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/qqlNktm-nO4J. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Finally completed my latest project...
If you can supply this with custom made chess nixies, and a nixie chess timer I'd be very tempted to buy a set! Not sure about a kit though, it looks like a lot of work to assemble and I already have so much spare time left. For myself it's not really important if it can or cannot be hooked up to a computer, won't be using that feature anyways. IMHO a nixie chess game doesn't need the features of a modern chess computer. Michel On Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:25:50 AM UTC+10, Tony Adams wrote: > > I'll try to reply to most of the pints in one post to prevent > cluttering the thread up, but first of all - you are all a bunch of > feature creeps! ;) > > I did consider one large coil but couldn't see it being possible to > provide even coverage and avoid hotspots or overdriving the displays > if it wasn't fully loaded - it may be possible but I didn't explore > that. > > Power efficiency, the loaded drivers deliver 70%+ of the input to the > display, the figures only look bad as unloaded they still use quite a > bit of power. Probably 10W could be saved by switching off the unused > squares but it adds to the complexity and would prevent another idea I > have from working. > > Any kit will be exactly that, you'll be thrown a bunch of machined > paxolin discs and a roll of copper wire - reminds me of a clock case > 'kit' I bought many years ago which consisted of some paper stencils > and 2 sheets of plywood. well it won't be that bad :). > > As for modifications that would turn it into an electronic chess game > I've had the following ideas, along with a few hints offlist from > Dekatron42: > . > The base coils are currently driven in rows of eight, they're also fed > in rows of eight via 8x 2R2 fusible resistors. If I rearrange them to > be supplied in rows and driven in columns this should work: > > The starting positions are known, or at least can be assumed. > The controller will need to keep a map of the piece positions and > track each movement. > > When a piece is picked up or put down there is a change in current > through that row resistor, the controller can detect it then scan > through the columns to find out which square has changed. As all the > pieces are mapped it will know what was on that square and which > squares will be valid for it to reappear on. > > When an increase is recorded across one of the resistors it can scan > again to see which square is now occupied. If it detects it's on a > valid square the game continues, if not it will stay in a loop waiting > for a legal move to be made or end the game depending on programming. > > For the computer to make a move it will indicate it by only driving > the coil under the piece to be moved and the destination square. > As you know which moves are valid for that piece it will be easy to > find that square and the piece will light up. Again if it's not moved > to the correct square the controller can detect it and halt the game > until it is. > > As all the pieces are mapped by the controller it doesn't need to > identify them and swapping them for another piece or attempting to > cheat will only halt the game or confuse the human player. > > To make this work I'll need to change the current row/row arrangement > to row/column, add ADC lines from each resistor and add a 12v switch > to each row of 8 coils. It'll need a larger microcontroller and a few > spare pins will be needed to allow external programming. I really > don't want to end up bogged down with more modifications though so if > I do make these up as a kit I'd just supply the board with the above > mods, basic always-on software and a means to program it externally. > It's then up to the end user to do the rest. > > - and chess piece Nixie tubes would be just incredible expecially if > they're made as plugin replacements. > > Tony. > > > On Jun 22, 6:17 pm, jb-electronics > wrote: > > Actually, I am just as well interested in the custom made chess Nixie > > tubes, Ron ;-) > > > > Jens > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely stunning! I be interested in a kit > > > > > Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/Tw9cSC5i8o8J. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M
Nice tubes! Would be cool to make a propeller clock with 1 of them! Michel On Jun 28, 5:14 pm, Terry Kennedy wrote: > On Jun 28, 2:23 am, Quixotic Nixotic wrote: > > > Which strangely is orphaned from the entry > > athttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika, which does not even mention > > clocks. > > Elektronika seems to have been a catch-all name for a variety of > products from different manufacturers. The digit after the name > apparently indicates the company that built the product as well as the > product category, so the 7 indicates wall clocks from Reflektor. > > > Very nice restoration, I'd love one of those clocks but I guess everyone > > will be on the hunt for them now. > > Thanks! There have been a bunch on eBay recently from different > sellers. You're probably right that the attention will drive the price > up, though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Power Supply Design Question . . . Suggestions?
That is a very popular HV power supply, no need to simulate it, just buy it and you will see it will work. Michel On Jul 1, 12:37 am, HepaxCodex wrote: > I am trying to make my first nixie tube setup and I am struggling with the > powersupply. > Testing out the old analog knowledge is kicking this digital guy's butt! > > I am working with ModelSim to simulate the circuit (Are other tools better? > GPL?). > > I decided to test this circuit > outhttp://www.ledsales.com.au/kits/nixie_supply.pdf > > because I couldn't find the models for this guy (which was also > recommended throughout the > web).http://www.desmith.net/NMdS/Electronics/NixiePSU.html > > Unfortunately, when I model the circuit I only get 30V on the output and > can't seem to figure out why. > Here is the circuit sim in modelsim (after 4ms have elapsed): Note that > things are a bit re-arranged from the > ledsales diagram. > > http://imgur.com/8A2si > > Is this a good power supply to start with? I want to expand it over time > but I need to refresh my circuit design knowledge significantly. > Any help as to why this is not working? > Also what tools do people use to help simulate and verify things? > > Thanks for all the help!! > HepaxCodex -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Rare edge-lit display module on ebay
Ha, that is cool! I had seen designs from a German guy on TubeDB (I think), probably also a neonixie member, who was making these type of edge lit nixie tubes himself. I actually thought that it was a new approach but maybe he re-invented the wheel so to speak. Michel On Jul 1, 9:27 pm, mikeselectricstuff wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200785815364 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Rare edge-lit display module on ebay
Here it is: http://www.tubeclockdb.com/forum/Builders-Forum/2956-Edgelit-Reloaded.html He is well aware of these kind of displays b.t.w. I just overlooked that myself. Michel On Jul 1, 9:27 pm, mikeselectricstuff wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200785815364 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Curious Nixie watch listing on ebay
Reduced GBP500?? Or does he mean Ripped off - GBP500? Michel On Friday, July 13, 2012 2:46:12 PM UTC+10, nixiebunny wrote: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290739784194 > > Says he'll make a Nixie watch to order, and 10 are available, yet has > photos of one of my watches and a picture and lots of text copied > verbatim from my website. > > Lots of good feedback, too. > > I can't make heads nor tails of it. > > -- > David Forbes, Tucson AZ > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/GlCBWsgJCQoJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life
Over the past few weeks I did some extensive tests for battery life of my Nixie Watch. When I started with the design, I took David's numbers as a reference. An average of 50 readings per day at 1mA tube current (about 185mA battery current) results in 4 to 6 months battery life. Say 5 months, that would be 7,500 readings for 1 battery. I wanted my battery to last for 1 year, so it needed to be able to last for say 20,000 readings. I started off with making the HV circuit as efficient as possible which resulted in the fact that I could drive the tubes with 1mA at around 95mA battery current. I could use this advantage to go from say 7,500 readings to 15,000 readings (or 5 months to 10 months). However, I decided to increase the tube brightness to go from 1mA to 2mA so that the tubes would be better to read when you're outside. This meant that to increase battery life, I had to be able to adjust the tube brightness according to the amount of ambient light, which would also make it much more convenient to read the time when it's dark. The high efficiency of the total circuit resulted in a minimum of 6mA battery current when reading the tubes at night and around 185 - 200mA in (very) bright daylight. To test battery life, I implemented a feature that the watch can automatically display the time with intervals of 5 seconds. This comes down to around 600 readings per hour. I also implemented a 16 bit counter that would keep track on how many time readings had been triggered. I had estimated that the number could be anywhere between 20,000 and 50,000 so that's why I choose 16 bits. To estimate battery life, and check how the watch would behave when it would run out of juice, I then installed a new battery and set the watch to display the time 600 times per hour and 24 hours per day. Wherever I went, I was wearing the watch and I only took it off at night. Now the interesting part. After about 4.5 days, my 16 bit counter overflowed, passing the maximum of 65,535 readings. And it didn't just do that once, no, several days later it overflowed again, clocking a total of 131,000 readings! But, it didn't stop just there because the battery still had enough juice to go on for another 100,000 readings. Then, the display faded and in the end at 270,000 readings the battery was dead!! Now, that's what I call an increadible result! Sure the tubes are not at their brightest, and the low current (6mA) during the night would compensate for the higher current the watch would use during the daytime. Then I did a second test, basically the same but now with the tubes set to a constant 100% brightness, 600 times per hour. Not surprisingly, the battery could not supply the required power anymore after about 14,000 readings. I built a feature into the software that monitors the battery performance and automatically reduces the tube brightness to a minimum when the battery is nearly flat. This way, the time will still display at low tube brightness (which is 25% of maximum brightness) and you can change the battery before it is completely flat. This also means that if we would set the watch to a constant 50% brightness (1mA tube current), the battery will last for about 25,000 readings, enough for 1 year. http://xiac.com/Images/Steampunk_Nixie_Watch.JPG Michel http://facebook.com/nixiewatch -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life
Thanks for the comments John, This "Steampunk" version was actually a special order, I normally make them in olive drab colour. I still have an idea for another one to make it a very Australian Nixie Watch. Maybe I get that done in a few months time. Michel On Jul 15, 9:04 pm, "JohnK" wrote: > Nice report [and I like the tone]. > That photo of watch is interesting - I hadn't looked at yours before; was > waiting for firm results. > > Good job, > congrats > John K > Australia > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michel" > To: "neonixie-l" > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:23 PM > Subject: [neonixie-l] Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life > > > Over the past few weeks I did some extensive tests for battery life of > > my Nixie Watch. > > ...clip... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life
Thanks Jeff, I'll envy the person who can come up with better figures. Ha, "down under" that is a funny thought, would be nice for a model to wear on the catwalk :-) A bit difficult to check the time by herself though. Can you imagine Lara Stone asking you to check the time for her haha ;-) No, it's not about where you wear it but how it looks like. Oh right, so it looks like a kangaroo, or an Emu? Regards, Michel On Jul 23, 4:34 am, Jeff Thomas wrote: > Hi Michel, that was great work on your battery life analysis! > That's a real testament of your efforts in designing for efficiency. > > So what's this about the Australian Nixie Watch? is it something worn > "down under" ;) > > Kidding aside, Congratulations on your work. > > Regards, Jeff > > > > > > > > On Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:53:17 AM UTC-7, Michel wrote: > > > Over the past few weeks I did some extensive tests for battery life of > > my Nixie Watch. > > > When I started with the design, I took David's numbers as a reference. > > An average of 50 readings per day at 1mA tube current (about 185mA > > battery current) results in 4 to 6 months battery life. Say 5 months, > > that would be 7,500 readings for 1 battery. > > > I wanted my battery to last for 1 year, so it needed to be able to > > last for say 20,000 readings. I started off with making the HV circuit > > as efficient as possible which resulted in the fact that I could drive > > the tubes with 1mA at around 95mA battery current. I could use this > > advantage to go from say 7,500 readings to 15,000 readings (or 5 > > months to 10 months). However, I decided to increase the tube > > brightness to go from 1mA to 2mA so that the tubes would be better to > > read when you're outside. > > > This meant that to increase battery life, I had to be able to adjust > > the tube brightness according to the amount of ambient light, which > > would also make it much more convenient to read the time when it's > > dark. > > > The high efficiency of the total circuit resulted in a minimum of 6mA > > battery current when reading the tubes at night and around 185 - 200mA > > in (very) bright daylight. > > > To test battery life, I implemented a feature that the watch can > > automatically display the time with intervals of 5 seconds. This comes > > down to around 600 readings per hour. I also implemented a 16 bit > > counter > > that would keep track on how many time readings had been triggered. I > > had estimated that the number could be anywhere between 20,000 and > > 50,000 so that's why I choose 16 bits. > > > To estimate battery life, and check how the watch would behave when it > > would run out of juice, I then installed a new battery and set the > > watch to display the time 600 times per hour and 24 hours per day. > > Wherever I went, I was wearing the watch and I only took it off at > > night. > > > Now the interesting part. After about 4.5 days, my 16 bit counter > > overflowed, passing the maximum of 65,535 readings. And it didn't just > > do that once, no, several days later it overflowed again, clocking a > > total of 131,000 readings! But, it didn't stop just there because the > > battery still had enough juice to go on for another 100,000 readings. > > Then, the display faded and in the end at 270,000 readings the battery > > was dead!! > > > Now, that's what I call an increadible result! > > > Sure the tubes are not at their brightest, and the low current (6mA) > > during the night would compensate for the higher current the watch > > would use during the daytime. > > > Then I did a second test, basically the same but now with the tubes > > set to a constant 100% brightness, 600 times per hour. Not > > surprisingly, the battery could not supply the required power anymore > > after about 14,000 readings. I built a feature into the software that > > monitors the battery performance and automatically reduces the tube > > brightness to a minimum when the battery is nearly flat. This way, the > > time will still display at low tube brightness (which is 25% of > > maximum brightness) and you can change the battery before it is > > completely flat. > > > This also means that if we would set the watch to a constant 50% > > brightness (1mA tube current), the battery will last for about 25,000 > > readings, enough for 1 year. > > >http://xiac.com/Images/Steampunk_Nixie_Watch.JPG > > > Michel > > >http://facebook.com/nixiewatch -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life
> > I thought it would have bat nixies in it. Upside down digits. > > John S That would have been a nice idea actually, I think that would look quite special. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?
That is a cool processor, it was my first one to program in assembly language back in the early 1980's. It was used in the Acorn BBC computers, they came onto the market with a Z80 co-processor afterwards, which became my favorite for obvious reasons. Michel On Aug 16, 3:37 pm, dr pepper wrote: > My first clock circuit was a 7 segment led, and I built it using a > microprocessor, a 6502, I had little experience at the time and it > wasnt easy. > > I suggest that you build a published design first then either modify > it or build your own version, I'd also reccomend you build one that > runs from low volts dc, mains powered stuff is kinda risky. > > On 16 Aug, 02:52, "JohnK" wrote: > > > > > > > > > From my experience of modern devices I suspected that they are extinct. > > > John K. > > [Some background in industrial engineering, ergonomics and > > design-for-manufacture (which of course musn't nullify the user and repairer > > aspects).] Yeah I know "repair, what's that?" Goes to show my age. > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Adam Jacobs" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock? > > > > Also, I should add This is the reason that there is such a thing as a > > > "User Interface Engineer". > > > > ;) > > >.clip...- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Arduino-based FLW
It sounds like you like to try something new rather than using the old MPSA transistors. Tell you what, why don't you use an opto triac? For example the FOD4208, for sure it can support the required LED current. The only thing that will be a (small) challenge is to switch it off as it won't do that for as long as the current flows to the triac, which means it will stay on until you pull the plug. You will need to disable all segment drivers so that the current will become 0mA, and then the triac will turn off and you can then go to the next tube. You need a blanking time anyways, so it's not really a disadvantage to do it this way. There's probably people who have tried this already, so you may ask them if that works fine, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. Michel On Aug 23, 5:47 am, Matthew wrote: > Finally getting back to this after more boring bits of life, and finishing > a couple of nixie clocks I was working on. Back to FLW = Back to asking > questions - this time about resistor values. > > * As before, I'm experimenting with cathode drivers - and came across this > blog > post<http://lucsmall.com/2011/07/19/using-the-sn75468-as-a-nixie-tube-driver/>which > explains it (via some help from this group). I also tried it with the > 50v ULN2003A and a 47v Zener diode and it works - this is good news since > they are cheaper and more readily available. I'm not quite sure how to > calculate the pullup resistor, but it doesn't seem too critical. > > * However, given that I know from the spec sheets what current should be > going through each cathode, I can't quite get my head around what voltage > differential I should be using to calculate the cathode resistors...? > > * Similarly, I just discovered that unlike LEDs, nixie circuits seem to use > an anode resistor as well as cathode resistors - why is this? The spec > sheets of the tubes show the anode current - but as above, I'm not sure > what voltage difference I should be using to calculate this. > > * Also been experimenting with anode drivers; I was going to use an > optoisolator, but I'm trying to make a design which will drive both the > nixies and LEDs (with appropriate changes in supply voltage and resistors), > and it turns out I can't get one to handle the current of the LEDs. So I'm > probably back to the common MPSA92/42 combination. I see lots of schematics > including these, but I'm not quite getting the logic of how the resistors > are calculated... > > As ever, any insight hugely appreciated... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] RS232 line driver
I am after a driver like the MAX232 that has 5V levels on one side; +/- 5 on the other side and only requires a +5V supply. The MAX232 however is a 16 pin device and I am looking for something smaller (8 pins). I only need one Rx and one Tx channel. I am also thinking, maybe I don't need one and just use 0V and 5V levels rather than -5V and +5V, but not sure if that will work. Anybody knows more about that? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver
I just want to establish some serial communication between my computer and a PIC controller. Like David mentioned, RS232 is actually +/- 10V rather than +/- 5V. The levels directly from controller are obviously only 0V and 5V. Now I am thinking, for the Rx input this is not a problem because it will easily handle the +/- 10V input signals if I add a series resistor. But the Tx output needs to go from 0V/5V to +/- 10V which is normally done with a MAX232 for example. The MAX has 4 line converters (2 input; 2 output) but I only need 1 for my Tx signal. So I was after something smaller like an 8 pin or even a 5 pin driver that works on just a +5V supply. Michel On Aug 24, 5:43 pm, Dalibor Farný wrote: > Hello, look on rs485. I played with it a lot, ready to answer Your > questions :-) it works for long distances and allows more devices on one > line (bus). > > Try to describe your devices more.. > > Dalibor Farnýhttp://dalibor.farny.cz > > sent from Samsung Galaxy Pad > Dne 24.8.2012 7:46 "Michel" napsal(a): > > > > > > > > > I am after a driver like the MAX232 that has 5V levels on one side; > > +/- 5 on the other side and only requires a +5V supply. The MAX232 > > however is a 16 pin device and I am looking for something smaller (8 > > pins). I only need one Rx and one Tx channel. > > > I am also thinking, maybe I don't need one and just use 0V and 5V > > levels rather than -5V and +5V, but not sure if that will work. > > > Anybody knows more about that? > > > Michel > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver
This one will actually do the trick and is small enough! Thanks Nigel! Michel On Aug 24, 5:50 pm, Nigel Walker wrote: > If you don't mind surface mount, a MAX3313e is quite small and will do the > job. > > Nigel. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Michel" > To: "neonixie-l" > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:46 AM > Subject: [neonixie-l] RS232 line driver > > >I am after a driver like the MAX232 that has 5V levels on one side; > > +/- 5 on the other side and only requires a +5V supply. The MAX232 > > however is a 16 pin device and I am looking for something smaller (8 > > pins). I only need one Rx and one Tx channel. > > > I am also thinking, maybe I don't need one and just use 0V and 5V > > levels rather than -5V and +5V, but not sure if that will work. > > > Anybody knows more about that? > > > Michel > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver
That is interesting, I have to check if my PIC has this inverter bit, didn't know about that. I like that 2 transistor solution from the scienceprog website as well. I actually thought about doing something like that but I wasn't sure if you can always assume Tx is negative when idle. My eye fell onto this DS275 chip as well, but indeed, it is no longer manufactured so i'd rather not choose it. Thanks for the help and tips! Michel On Aug 25, 12:45 am, fixitsan wrote: > I've seen a lot of projects using pics and PC's, with no interface IC, i > think just some resistors. The PIC has a good output current from the > serial port and most importantly, the later pics have a configureation bit > for the UART to send inverted data. > There's a few suggestions > herehttp://www.electro-tech-online.com/microcontrollers/16668-transmit-da... > > I haven't tried it, but if I had nothing to lose I probably would. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver
Yes, I'll give it a shot. My PIC indeed has invertable USART ports so I'm going to hook it up just like that without transistors but just a few series resistors. The cable is only short. If it doesn't work (which I doubt), I can always use that $3 ebay interface that Dalibor was talking about. I read that most computers these days will already work with 2V signals on the RS232 port, so it's not very critical. Michel On Aug 25, 1:38 pm, threeneurons wrote: > I'm with John, if it for personal purposes, and the run is short > (<10ft/3m), you don't need to strictly adhere to the RS-232 spec. Just a > pair of transistor inverters, and label the connectors, "Mickey-Comm", and > you may just get away with 0-5V. Scope it, at your max intended baud rate, > just to make sure the signals aren't badly distorted. If tolerable, your > done, and on to the next project. > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 24, 2012 12:57:14 AM UTC-7, johnk wrote: > > > I thought that the 'dead' band for 232 was -3V to +3V. > > I have used 5V with printers and modems of the 1970s/80s. > > > Some 'cheap' RS232 drivers only used -5V and Gnd. eg the Microbee > > computer. > > > Over short distances all sorts of liberties can be taken - it works; just > > don't call it 232 ! > > > John K > > Australia -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: eBay Warning on B7871 Tubes auction.
> > Over years of experience buying used electronics, there are only 3 > grades: Tested, which means "we turned it on and anything we found > unworking is unlikely to be detected by the buyer within the return > period" > I once bought a used monitor at a computer show, those were the days a color monitor would still cost you $1,000 or more. The seller wanted $150 for it and I asked him if it would still work. He said "we tested all of them yesterday", so I thought that should be fine then. Looking at the 9 pin d-sub plug, I noticed 1 pin was missing/broken off. I showed the guy and he then lowered his price to $25. OK, so I bought it, came home and of course it didn't work. Opened it up, found loose wires and other traces that clearly indicated someone had tried to fix it. I hooked up everything where it belonged to, put a new d-sub plug on it and bingo, a beautiful color EGA screen for $25 :-). Later I found that it was actually a multi-sync monitor supporting anything from hercules, CGA, EGA, VGA and SVGA with 800x600 resolution which was really good at that time as VGA was only 640x480. Anyway, to me "tested" doesn't guarantee that it works. Maybe they tested it and found that it didn't work, you never know. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Slow ionizing nixies
After making a couple of batches of watches, I noticed that some tubes (about 1 out of 40) occasionally ionize very slowly when driven by a low current. This doesn't always happen, sometimes they ionize just as quick as other tubes, but occasionally it can take more than 1 second before the gas ionizes. Once they ionize, they look just as bright as the other tubes, there really is no difference. When I replace the slow tube with another one, the problem disappears. Why is that? I was thinking could the pressure of the gas inside the tube be a bit too low after about 40 years not being used? But wouldn't that influence the brightness as well? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
Thanks Jeff, I assume there isn't really anything that can be done to this then. I could still use them for a clock I think as there isn't really anything wrong with them once they ionize. Michel On Sep 1, 8:14 am, Jeff Thomas wrote: > Good question. > There are a few factors involved. Varying penning gas pressure/mix, process > variations in materials assembly and burn-in, and the possibility of > residual oxygen. We know that KR85, if introduced to assist in ionization > would be long gone. > > I've experienced the same in testing volumes of other nixie tubes over the > years, and I'd just chocked it up process variations when frit seal failure > couldn't be the cause. > > Regards, Jeff > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 31, 2012 2:47:37 PM UTC-7, Michel wrote: > > > After making a couple of batches of watches, I noticed that some tubes > > (about 1 out of 40) occasionally ionize very slowly when driven by a > > low current. This doesn't always happen, sometimes they ionize just as > > quick as other tubes, but occasionally it can take more than 1 second > > before the gas ionizes. Once they ionize, they look just as bright as > > the other tubes, there really is no difference. When I replace the > > slow tube with another one, the problem disappears. > > > Why is that? I was thinking could the pressure of the gas inside the > > tube be a bit too low after about 40 years not being used? But > > wouldn't that influence the brightness as well? > > > Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
I actually assumed that the pressure inside the envelope is normally above atmospheric pressure, but of course if it is below then it would indeed be the opposite. Anyway, according to your findings, it wouldn't be related to a too high or too low pressure and if it was caused by an additive that has now been gone, the other tubes (from the same batch) should show the same characteristics. Michel On Sep 1, 6:19 pm, jb-electronics wrote: > Hi, > > I was just thinking, if outgassing is a major factor here, shouldn't the > pressure inside the Nixie tube increase due to these extra molecules > floating around? > > Also, if the pressure was too low the digit would become hazy while > increasing the pressure does not significantly alter the appearance of > the glow. Found this out while experimenting with a broken CD47 under a > vacuum bell and some Penning mixture. > > Jens > > > > > > > > > Thanks Jeff, I assume there isn't really anything that can be done to > > this then. > > > I could still use them for a clock I think as there isn't really > > anything wrong with them once they ionize. > > > Michel > > > On Sep 1, 8:14 am, Jeff Thomas wrote: > >> Good question. > >> There are a few factors involved. Varying penning gas pressure/mix, process > >> variations in materials assembly and burn-in, and the possibility of > >> residual oxygen. We know that KR85, if introduced to assist in ionization > >> would be long gone. > > >> I've experienced the same in testing volumes of other nixie tubes over the > >> years, and I'd just chocked it up process variations when frit seal failure > >> couldn't be the cause. > > >> Regards, Jeff > > >> On Friday, August 31, 2012 2:47:37 PM UTC-7, Michel wrote: > > >>> After making a couple of batches of watches, I noticed that some tubes > >>> (about 1 out of 40) occasionally ionize very slowly when driven by a > >>> low current. This doesn't always happen, sometimes they ionize just as > >>> quick as other tubes, but occasionally it can take more than 1 second > >>> before the gas ionizes. Once they ionize, they look just as bright as > >>> the other tubes, there really is no difference. When I replace the > >>> slow tube with another one, the problem disappears. > >>> Why is that? I was thinking could the pressure of the gas inside the > >>> tube be a bit too low after about 40 years not being used? But > >>> wouldn't that influence the brightness as well? > >>> Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
So basically it could be that if the pressure is higher than what it ought to be, it is likely to be not visible once the gas has ionized, but it may still affect the ionization time? The strangest thing what happens is that if I leave this tube off for a while (say 15 minutes) the ionization process is usually slow. On the other hand, if I trigger a time reading just a few times after each other, the first reading might be slow but all the next readings will be just normal. Michel On Sep 1, 9:23 pm, jb-electronics wrote: > Hi, > > the pressure in a Nixie tube is roughly 1/25 atm. > > > Anyway, according to your findings, it wouldn't be related to a too > > high or too low pressure > > How do you draw this conclusion? The ignition process may take longer. > When doing the experiments, I ignited the tube at well-defined > conditions (i.e. 20 Torr) and then changed the pressure with the > discharge still going on. Thus, I can not draw any conclusion about the > igniting properties at different pressures, all I can say is that the > digit - once ignited - will look about the same at higher pressures. > > Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
Do you also drive them with a variable cathode current? If I drive them with a reasonable current right from the start, they ionize just as quick as the other tubes, or at least I don't see any difference. But when I drive them on a low current it becomes obvious this 1 tube is sometimes very slow. Jens, you ask "is it really strange", but even if I do time triggers with 1 minute intervals, the suspected tube still ionizes quickly. It's only when I leave it off for say 15 minutes that I see a difference. I would think that even after 1 minute the ionization will have come to a complete rest, or not? It seems like it is temperature related, that the gas needs to cool down for a relatively long time before the problem shows up. Michel On Sep 2, 1:40 am, kay486 wrote: > I have noticed the exact same thing with all of mine LC-513 (Dolam) tubes. > When i pop them in a clock on the seconds place, they all the numbers tend > to flicker, some will have stable glow faster than others, it usualy > doesent take longer than 30 seconds for all o them to glow fine. I asume > that the multiplexing plays some role in this too. > Ive also seen some neon bulbs that have this sort of weir flickering on > them (im not relating to that AC flickering) the glow of one of the bulbs > in my clock tends to jump up and down on the cathode. If i have them turned > off for a longer time before turning on, the flickering is really slow, it > jumps up and down only like once per second, but soon after that it starts > to excelerate to a poin when it all really unstable, it jumps up and down > like six times per second! The weird thing is it happes only on one bulb! > The other glows just fine. Ive seen this on some youtube videos too, so im > not the only one. Does anybody know whats the problem with that? > > > > > > > > On Saturday, September 1, 2012 1:12:36 PM UTC+1, Jens Boos wrote: > > > Hi Michel, > > > > So basically it could be that if the pressure is higher than what it > > > ought to be, it is likely to be not visible once the gas has ionized, > > > but it may still affect the ionization time? > > > yep, that was my point. > > > > The strangest thing what happens is that if I leave this tube off for > > > a while (say 15 minutes) the ionization process is usually slow. On > > > the other hand, if I trigger a time reading just a few times after > > > each other, the first reading might be slow but all the next readings > > > will be just normal. > > > Is it really strange? Once an ignition has been triggered, there are > > much more ionized gas molucules around, thus making the next ignition > > much easier. > > > Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Curious Nixie watch listing on ebay
This is really an auction to add to your watch list just to see what happens in the next 30 days. Will he sell it? It looks like he is quite sure of what he is doing as he probably bought 2 of these watches already. It's a pity you can't warn potential buyers that they can actually buy that watch for half the price I actually think the Nixie Watch is special enough for people to search the web before buying something, so hopefully they find what they were looking for before clicking the buy it now button. Michel On Sep 2, 4:20 am, Dekatron42 wrote: > He's going at it again with a new auction: 290769356824 > ,http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Immediately-available-Nixie-tube-NL-5870-wa... > > > > > > > > On Monday, July 16, 2012 6:30:31 AM UTC+2, aarggh wrote: > > And with nixie watches being so amazingly common, I'm surprised anyone > > noticed it! ;-) > > Very curious indeed! > > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Terry S > >wrote: > > >> Strange. From all indications, a legitmate seller. Yet a clear rip-off of > >> data from your site. > > >> At least the auction has been cancelled. > > >> On Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:46:12 PM UTC-5, nixiebunny wrote: > > >>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/**290739784194<http://www.ebay.com/itm/290739784194> > > >>> Says he'll make a Nixie watch to order, and 10 are available, yet has > >>> photos of one of my watches and a picture and lots of text copied > >>> verbatim from my website. > > >>> Lots of good feedback, too. > > >>> I can't make heads nor tails of it. > > >>> -- > >>> David Forbes, Tucson AZ > > >>> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "neonixie-l" group. > >> To view this discussion on the web, visit > >>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/t_B9g1bCgUcJ. > > >> To post to this group, send an email to > >> neoni...@googlegroups.com > >> . > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
My circuit is designed in a way that should the tubes not ionize, the voltage will rise to 200V. It could actually go higher than that but I got my backlight LEDs in series with a 200V zener diode, so when current starts to flow through the LEDs and zener diode, the voltage no longer rises. When this specific tube doesn't ionize, the backlight LEDs are on, so I know the anode voltage must be at least close to 200V. Michel On Sep 2, 10:17 am, threeneurons wrote: > What supply voltage are you using ? Nixies will ionize faster at when > subjected to higher voltage. With an externally (non-battery) powered nixie > clock, you can adjust the supply voltage up, and compensate by varying the > anode resistor appropriately. With your watch, monitor the current. Start > with a high voltage (200V or so), then once you see current flow, then drop > the voltage. > > A few years ago, I ran an experiment, simulating multiplexing. I noted the > "turn-ON" time versus the supply voltage. I have the real numbers > somewhere, but the "turn-ON" time could be cut dramatically, by raising the > voltage. If you just set it at 170V, you could be in trouble. > > There are published charts of ionization probability versus supply voltage. > That and my experiments, are telling the same thing. Up the voltage. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
I'm just thinking about something, is it possible that the speed of the rising anode voltage voltage also has influence on the ionization time? In other words, is the ionization influenced by dV/dt? I know for a fact that in my circuit dV/dt will be lower when the target anode current is lower, so climbing to 200V will take longer than when the tube's target current is higher. Michel On Sep 2, 12:51 pm, Michel wrote: > My circuit is designed in a way that should the tubes not ionize, the > voltage will rise to 200V. It could actually go higher than that but I > got my backlight LEDs in series with a 200V zener diode, so when > current starts to flow through the LEDs and zener diode, the voltage > no longer rises. When this specific tube doesn't ionize, the backlight > LEDs are on, so I know the anode voltage must be at least close to > 200V. > > Michel > > On Sep 2, 10:17 am, threeneurons wrote: > > > > > > > > > What supply voltage are you using ? Nixies will ionize faster at when > > subjected to higher voltage. With an externally (non-battery) powered nixie > > clock, you can adjust the supply voltage up, and compensate by varying the > > anode resistor appropriately. With your watch, monitor the current. Start > > with a high voltage (200V or so), then once you see current flow, then drop > > the voltage. > > > A few years ago, I ran an experiment, simulating multiplexing. I noted the > > "turn-ON" time versus the supply voltage. I have the real numbers > > somewhere, but the "turn-ON" time could be cut dramatically, by raising the > > voltage. If you just set it at 170V, you could be in trouble. > > > There are published charts of ionization probability versus supply voltage. > > That and my experiments, are telling the same thing. Up the voltage. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Curious Nixie watch listing on ebay
That makes sense because if you check out david's website you will see they are sold out. This guy tries to take advantage of that. Still wondering if there would really be anyone paying that price for a nixie watch. Michel On Sep 2, 7:19 pm, Quixotic Nixotic wrote: > On 1 Sep 2012, at 19:20, Dekatron42 wrote: > > > He's going at it again with a new auction: 290769356824 > > ,http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Immediately-available-Nixie-tube-NL-5870-wa... > > I asked about the watches too. > > The response I got was: > > Hi - order from david if you can get. I've these in stock. > > - omega4750 > > So I think he's bought two watches and is selling them on at vastly inflated > prices. > > John S -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
That is really nice, the characters look so much better than they do with a pixel based display. Great job! Michel On Sep 4, 7:39 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" wrote: > > On 2012/09/04, at 2:01, kay486 wrote: > > > This clock looks really nice! Just one thing, do you know that XI stands > > for 11 not 12. I saw this in some pictures on that site. > > Incredible! How did I miss that?! Thanks very much for pointing it out - an > easy fix for my next code update. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Hi Frank, That is of course true, once the resolution of the camera/screen becomes large enough you're not going to see a difference. But the driving algorithm is very interesting and totally different from pixel based systems. Back in the 1980's I had a game computer called "Vectrex", it must have used something similar although they were not circles but straight lines (vectors). It looked so much better than a game computer connected to a low resolution monitor. The only thing is that once you start displaying more and more objects on the screen, the refresh rate goes down to like 10Hz and you can really notice a flickering of the screen. Michel On Sep 4, 4:52 pm, "Frank Bemelman" wrote: > Hi Michel, > > The pictures you looked at were taken by a pixel based camera > and displayed on your pixel based display. > > With adequate DA converters, pixel based could look just as nice. > > That said I am the first to admit that this analog vector driven > approach is much more passionate compared to cold bits & pixels. > > Beautiful clock indeed. > > Cheers, Frank > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > From: Michel > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 12:07 AM > To: neonixie-l > Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com > > That is really nice, the characters look so much better than they do > with a pixel based display. > > Great job! > Michel > > On Sep 4, 7:39 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" > wrote: > > > > On 2012/09/04, at 2:01, kay486 wrote: > > > > This clock looks really nice! Just one thing, do you know that XI stands > > > for 11 not 12. I saw this in some pictures on that site. > > > Incredible! How did I miss that?! Thanks very much for pointing it out - > > an easy fix for my next code update. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
> But I just love analog too much! I agree :-) > Hi Michel - funny you mention Vectrex. I know someone with one! I think you > can imagine all the enhancements I'd like to do on my clock's software - in > time. I guess that means we soon see the Minestorm game on your scopeclock! I think it will look even better based on circles rather than lines! As far as my understanding of the roman numeral versus IV is that the clock dial looks more symmetric with the roman VIII on the opposite site (from far away VIII looks a bit like ). Michel > > Aaron > > On 2012/09/04, at 16:44, Michel wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Frank, > > > That is of course true, once the resolution of the camera/screen > > becomes large enough you're not going to see a difference. But the > > driving algorithm is very interesting and totally different from pixel > > based systems. Back in the 1980's I had a game computer called > > "Vectrex", it must have used something similar although they were not > > circles but straight lines (vectors). It looked so much better than a > > game computer connected to a low resolution monitor. The only thing is > > that once you start displaying more and more objects on the screen, > > the refresh rate goes down to like 10Hz and you can really notice a > > flickering of the screen. > > > Michel > > > On Sep 4, 4:52 pm, "Frank Bemelman" wrote: > >> Hi Michel, > > >> The pictures you looked at were taken by a pixel based camera > >> and displayed on your pixel based display. > > >> With adequate DA converters, pixel based could look just as nice. > > >> That said I am the first to admit that this analog vector driven > >> approach is much more passionate compared to cold bits & pixels. > > >> Beautiful clock indeed. > > >> Cheers, Frank > > >> -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > >> From: Michel > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 12:07 AM > >> To: neonixie-l > >> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com > > >> That is really nice, the characters look so much better than they do > >> with a pixel based display. > > >> Great job! > >> Michel > > >> On Sep 4, 7:39 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" > >> wrote: > > >>>> On 2012/09/04, at 2:01, kay486 wrote: > > >>>> This clock looks really nice! Just one thing, do you know that XI stands > >>>> for 11 not 12. I saw this in some pictures on that site. > > >>> Incredible! How did I miss that?! Thanks very much for pointing it out - > >>> an easy fix for my next code update. > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "neonixie-l" group. > >> To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My first Nixie clock - video!
Nice work Imbanon! I rememer you initially had 2 tubes parallel through 1 anode resistor. Did you modify that afterwards or you still use it that way? Michel On Sep 5, 8:20 am, Imbanon wrote: > I will probably have both kits and assembled units, still don't know. > > The dots were unfortunately impossible, as all the pins on the uC are used. > Maybe I will figure something out in the future to add the neon lamps as > dots. > > The clock can also be set to work in both 24h or am/pm mode, as well as > changing the date format, and of course fahrenhein instead of celsius > degrees for temperature. But these have to be pre-set while programming the > controller. > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:19:12 PM UTC+2, kay486 wrote: > > > Looks good! Have ypu concidered using the dots on the tubes too? Having > > something like this scrolling effect > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdXG1ZsKJR8 > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:53:17 AM UTC+1, Imbanon wrote: > > >> Hey all! > >> Just wanted to share the video of my first clock. This is just a > >> prototype, so any comments are welcome. Changes for the PCB are still > >> possible. > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlhZ0q8B48I > > >> Hope you guys like it! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Hi Aaron, Would you mind to post the schematics in a PDF file to download from your site? I saw you put the EAGLE files there but I don't use that software and I don't just want to install it to view the schematics. I'd like to see the circuitry around the circle generator with D/A variable gain. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Thanks Aaron, I think I get the picture here. It basically converts a square wave into a sin and cosine. The circles that it creates are divided into 256 small segments, which segments need to be turned on is selected through 8 bits. The segments that do not need to be displayed are blanked out. This is different than what I had in mind, it means that for each arc that needs to be displayed, the circuit will create a complete circle but the unused segments will be blanked out. The DAC is a nice one, I had the idea that a serial input DAC would be too slow for this application but apparently it is not :-). If I need to scale or modulate analog signals, I sometimes use analog multipliers in an op-amp feed back loop so that they operate as an analog divider. That works well and is also very fast but it usually means I need an extra DC/DC converter to go from say 5V input to +/- 12V. I might have a look if I can do something similar with this DAC. I would then still need to place it into a feedback loop as I need to amplify my input signal rather than attenuate. Michel On Sep 5, 8:47 pm, "i...@oscilloclock.com" wrote: > Hi Michel, > > Sure - just look at the ERRATA.pdf file inside any of the Minor Revision zip > files (like the Control Board rev 1.01). You will find the 1.00 schematic, > with changes from 1.00->1.01 marked in Red pen. > > Sorry it's not so easy I get at.. > > Aaron > > On 2012/09/05, at 14:56, Michel wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Aaron, > > > Would you mind to post the schematics in a PDF file to download from > > your site? I saw you put the EAGLE files there but I don't use that > > software and I don't just want to install it to view the schematics. > > I'd like to see the circuitry around the circle generator with D/A > > variable gain. > > > Michel > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Minor correction, the circles are probably divided into 8 segments, not 256 as previously stated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
I actually expected a wire from Q9 (IC9) to an interrupt input on the MCU so that the software knows the start (or end) of each circle and can load new data for the next circle segments in sync with the circle generator. Wouldn't that be better? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
OK, I see the difference. David uses a timed system to display the arcs, while I would use a counter system. I would let the amount of displayed objects (arcs) determine the screen refresh rate rather than a pre-defined (timed) rate. For example, the smallest circle I would display exactly 1 time while the largest circle could be 20 times to make it appear with the same brightness. This way I would sequence a list of all the arcs to be displayed, and once at the bottom go immediately to the top. The refresh rate could then well be 200Hz for very few objects or 20Hz for many objects. If you want to make some games for your clock, this method would lead to a larger amount of arcs you can display on the screen, but you would need to hookup Q9 to an external interrupt and re-write the software a bit. You might also have to run the MCU at a higher frequency so that you can still update the D/A converters at the new rate. Michel On Sep 6, 9:51 am, Oscilloclock wrote: > You have it, Michel! > > I have several posts on theory in Draft state so be sure to subscribe or > check back once in a while. Until then, (and very likely even AFTER then!), > the best circuit theory explanation is on David's site: > > http://cathodecorner.com/sc200theory.html > > My circuit has not veered greatly from his design. > > Aaron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Hi Aaron, You're right indeed, timing the duration of displaying a segment will do pretty much the same as counting the number of circles elapsed while the segment is displayed. I just feel that counting the circles on interrupt base gives you more freedom in controller speeds and how you write the code. I don't know, you should compare the two systems side by side to see if it would actually make a difference or make the code less time critical. You can still use the 50Hz or 60Hz screen refresh rate of course, I didn't know that the unshielded CRT would be that sensitive. Michel On Sep 6, 11:32 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" wrote: > Hi Michel, you almost have it. > > The clock already constructs a 'drawlist' and draws it top to bottom as fast > as it can, each segment displayed as many times as needed to have proper > intensity. Please see the code which is well-commented - draw.asm and > drawlist.asm is very helpful for you. There is no need for an interrupt > because the next segments are prepared while the previous segment is being > displayed (unblanked). The MCU has spare cycles at that instant. In fact, for > a screen displaying a small drawlist there are many spare cycles. > > There is a throttle in the 'config' setup screen called "Delay", which you > can change to control how long the display is left unblanked for each > segment. Reducing this delay allows for very high refresh rates already! - > EXCEPT: > > The display is currently deliberately timed to display one drawlist at 50Hz > or 60Hz refresh. This is to ensure stability in the vicinity of magnetic > fields. Remember the CRT does not have a shield, so electric wiring in the > house will cause the image to sway if the refresh rate is not aligned. > > If we ignore this concern, we can easily have super-high refresh rates with > only a code change. But to be honest for basic games this will not be > necessary. Look at the main menu, with a myriad of hundreds of segments being > displayed successfully at 60Hz. > > Also, currently the clock is 20Mhz (okay, 19.). I may rework for a 40Mhz > (39) clock, not difficult on the same board and same PIC. > > But the proof is in the pudding. One day I'll upload something. > > But I really like your ideas. It will be good to think about! > > Aaron > > On 2012/09/06, at 9:38, Michel wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK, I see the difference. David uses a timed system to display the > > arcs, while I would use a counter system. I would let the amount of > > displayed objects (arcs) determine the screen refresh rate rather than > > a pre-defined (timed) rate. For example, the smallest circle I would > > display exactly 1 time while the largest circle could be 20 times to > > make it appear with the same brightness. This way I would sequence a > > list of all the arcs to be displayed, and once at the bottom go > > immediately to the top. The refresh rate could then well be 200Hz for > > very few objects or 20Hz for many objects. If you want to make some > > games for your clock, this method would lead to a larger amount of > > arcs you can display on the screen, but you would need to hookup Q9 to > > an external interrupt and re-write the software a bit. You might also > > have to run the MCU at a higher frequency so that you can still update > > the D/A converters at the new rate. > > > Michel > > > On Sep 6, 9:51 am, Oscilloclock wrote: > >> You have it, Michel! > > >> I have several posts on theory in Draft state so be sure to subscribe or > >> check back once in a while. Until then, (and very likely even AFTER > >> then!), the best circuit theory explanation is on David's site: > > >> http://cathodecorner.com/sc200theory.html > > >> My circuit has not veered greatly from his design. > > >> Aaron > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Hi Aaron, You might like this one. I figured out that without too much effort you can actually divide your circles into 120 segments rather than 8. It would be a nice feature as you can then use your outer circle on the screen to indicate the seconds or let a pendulum move left and right or something like that. Have a look at this sketch, I might have forgotten something here or there, but the basic principal should be clear. http://xiac.com/Images/scopeclock.jpg It basically works like this, you set an opening segment as to the start of the circle part you want to display and set blank to "1". When the angle has been reached, an interrupt will be generated and the screen unblanked. Then you set the end segment and set blank to "0". Once this angle is reached, again an interrupt will be generated and at the same time the tube will be blanked. Sure it generates a lot of interrupts, but if you keep the code very simple, that should be just fine. And at the same time you can count the number of circles rather than do a timed system. Michel On Sep 6, 12:01 pm, Michel wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > You're right indeed, timing the duration of displaying a segment will > do pretty much the same as counting the number of circles elapsed > while the segment is displayed. I just feel that counting the circles > on interrupt base gives you more freedom in controller speeds and how > you write the code. I don't know, you should compare the two systems > side by side to see if it would actually make a difference or make the > code less time critical. You can still use the 50Hz or 60Hz screen > refresh rate of course, I didn't know that the unshielded CRT would be > that sensitive. > > Michel > > On Sep 6, 11:32 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Michel, you almost have it. > > > The clock already constructs a 'drawlist' and draws it top to bottom as > > fast as it can, each segment displayed as many times as needed to have > > proper intensity. Please see the code which is well-commented - draw.asm > > and drawlist.asm is very helpful for you. There is no need for an interrupt > > because the next segments are prepared while the previous segment is being > > displayed (unblanked). The MCU has spare cycles at that instant. In fact, > > for a screen displaying a small drawlist there are many spare cycles. > > > There is a throttle in the 'config' setup screen called "Delay", which you > > can change to control how long the display is left unblanked for each > > segment. Reducing this delay allows for very high refresh rates already! - > > EXCEPT: > > > The display is currently deliberately timed to display one drawlist at 50Hz > > or 60Hz refresh. This is to ensure stability in the vicinity of magnetic > > fields. Remember the CRT does not have a shield, so electric wiring in the > > house will cause the image to sway if the refresh rate is not aligned. > > > If we ignore this concern, we can easily have super-high refresh rates > > with only a code change. But to be honest for basic games this will not be > > necessary. Look at the main menu, with a myriad of hundreds of segments > > being displayed successfully at 60Hz. > > > Also, currently the clock is 20Mhz (okay, 19.). I may rework for a > > 40Mhz (39) clock, not difficult on the same board and same PIC. > > > But the proof is in the pudding. One day I'll upload something. > > > But I really like your ideas. It will be good to think about! > > > Aaron > > > On 2012/09/06, at 9:38, Michel wrote: > > > > OK, I see the difference. David uses a timed system to display the > > > arcs, while I would use a counter system. I would let the amount of > > > displayed objects (arcs) determine the screen refresh rate rather than > > > a pre-defined (timed) rate. For example, the smallest circle I would > > > display exactly 1 time while the largest circle could be 20 times to > > > make it appear with the same brightness. This way I would sequence a > > > list of all the arcs to be displayed, and once at the bottom go > > > immediately to the top. The refresh rate could then well be 200Hz for > > > very few objects or 20Hz for many objects. If you want to make some > > > games for your clock, this method would lead to a larger amount of > > > arcs you can display on the screen, but you would need to hookup Q9 to > > > an external interrupt and re-write the software a bit. You might also > > > have to run the MCU at a higher frequency so that you can still update > > > the D/
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
One more idea. Sorry for posting so much but I think it really is an interesting clock! The thing that bothered me a bit was the fact that previous circuit generates so many interrupts. At the moment you need to display multiple circuits for a specific arc, the amount of circles required is dependent on the size of the circle to make it appear at the same brightness as the other arcs on the screen. This requires a quite high circle frequency (about 38kHz) as some circles need to display maybe 5 times and others 20 times. Suppose there is a way that you can always use just 1 circle, and it will always display as bright as others independent on its size. If that was so, you can significantly reduce the frequency and reduce the amount of interrupts at the same time. Probably divide by 8 (around 4.5kHz). Secondly you could go to 60 segments rather than my initial 120 which gives you a larger interval between 2 subsequent segments. The interesting thing is, you can actually do this relatively simple. You could take a second MAX509 DAC and hook it up parallel to the first one. Then you use POS5A for inputs REFA and REFB. The outputs OUTA and OUTB will give you information about the size of the circle currently displayed. If you invert these voltages and summarize them ((POS5A-OUTA + POS5A-OUTB) amplify them and make them negative, then you have a voltage for the control grid Ug1 = A (OUTA + OUTB - 2POSA) which automatically adjust the brightness according to the size of the circle. Sure this is not perfectly linear but it will closely represent the correct brightness. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
I am just reading the datasheets of the MAX509 as I thought if you can use 0V for REFA and +5V for AGND, you wouldn't have to invert the voltages of OUTA and OUTB. Then, I came across this note in the Absolute Maximum ratings: "Do not bias AGND more than +1V above DGND, or more than 2.5V below DGND" In your circuit you bias it 2.5V above DGND. Are you sure you can do this?? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Hi Aaron, > Surprisingly, in 2 years and several clocks nothing has failed and there > seem to be no odd symptoms. It's probably not all that critical then, but you may come around another batch of MAX509's that fail after 2 months of use and then you're going to wonder "hummm why is that?" > Your other ideas regarding the controller > are really invaluable, I only hope to spare time to try some of them > soon! No problem, if you can make it work with the 60 or 120 segments (whatever is feasible) you can then use the circles to make magic eyes to indicate GPS signal strength, number of satellites etc etc. It would be more flexible than just 8 segments. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
I know you like analog technology much, but if you would change your analog sin/cos filters to digital LPF filters, you can then not only change the corner frequency very easily but you can most likely also remove the shaping pots and amplitude pots because the output voltages will be perfectly consistent. You don't need to create your 90 degrees phase shift by means of filtering, you can do that with a couple of diodes from the S0-S6 lines and another S/R flipflop so that you have 1 square wave 4.5kHz and another square wave with 90 degrees phase shift. Very easy, and no need to fine tune resistors and capacitors to get the perfect corner frequency. Michel On Sep 8, 6:38 pm, Michel wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > > Surprisingly, in 2 years and several clocks nothing has failed and there > > seem to be no odd symptoms. > > It's probably not all that critical then, but you may come around > another batch of MAX509's that fail after 2 months of use and then > you're going to wonder "hummm why is that?" > > > Your other ideas regarding the controller > > are really invaluable, I only hope to spare time to try some of them > > soon! > > No problem, if you can make it work with the 60 or 120 segments > (whatever is feasible) you can then use the circles to make magic eyes > to indicate GPS signal strength, number of satellites etc etc. It > would be more flexible than just 8 segments. > > Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
I did some extensive testing today and made the conclusion that these slow tubes need much more ambient light to ionize than other tubes. Raising the anode voltage to 200V rather than 170/180 is not doing much at all, I only see a dramatic improvement when I expose them to more ambient light. Could that be related to the amount of mercury vapor then? Is it then just a badly manufactured tube or is that due to its age? Michel On Sep 5, 8:30 am, marta_kson wrote: > Just a thought as the off-time before the problem reappears seems to > be very long, may the mercury in the tube be involved in some way? > That would take minutes to condense. The loss of ionization is a > microsecond process, so the explanation must be something else. The > mercury insertion is also something that could had some process > variations at the manufacture making some tubes worser than other even > in the same batch. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
Hi Marcin, That is exactly right, the blue backlight LEDs can indeed be used for this purpose. They do already come on if the tube doesn't ionize but the LED current in low ambient light is very low so there's not many photons emitted. I changed my code a bit yesterday so that I can inject a variable boost current for the initial 160us, 320us, 640us or 1280us. I am trialing this at the moment and so far the results are really good. Michel On Sep 12, 6:40 am, marcin wrote: > It is necessary to somehow ionize the gas a bit. Light is good, radiation > is. Some people - eg. this guyhttp://eeberfest.net/gallery.php?set=thebox > use UV LEDs to ensure ionization in dark conditions. Maybe it would be > possible to somehow use your blue LEDs? I have no idea if they would be > sufficient and how much time they would need to sufficiently ionize the > gas. Just an idea. > Marcin > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:52:20 UTC+2, Michel wrote: > > > I did some extensive testing today and made the conclusion that these > > slow tubes need much more ambient light to ionize than other tubes. > > Raising the anode voltage to 200V rather than 170/180 is not doing > > much at all, I only see a dramatic improvement when I expose them to > > more ambient light. Could that be related to the amount of mercury > > vapor then? Is it then just a badly manufactured tube or is that due > > to its age? > > > Michel > > > On Sep 5, 8:30 am, marta_kson wrote: > > > Just a thought as the off-time before the problem reappears seems to > > > be very long, may the mercury in the tube be involved in some way? > > > That would take minutes to condense. The loss of ionization is a > > > microsecond process, so the explanation must be something else. The > > > mercury insertion is also something that could had some process > > > variations at the manufacture making some tubes worser than other even > > > in the same batch. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My new Scope Clock site, Oscilloclock.com
Sure Aaron, It's always good to let your own thoughts over a certain circuit rather than just "copying" an existing design. I very rarely use breadboards, I find it easier to modify a concept board (like the one you already have) rather than building up everything on a breadboard. But yeah, maybe that's just me :-). I am looking forward to a kit. Michel On Sep 14, 8:06 am, "i...@oscilloclock.com" wrote: > Hi Michel - That is a great idea. Cutting out the analog circuit would help > achieve a really small controller board size (say, one small enough to sit at > the back of the CRT). > > I have a few other ideas I want to play with around the circle generator > area. Soon I need to get the breadboard back out! > > Aaron > > On 2012/09/08, at 17:55, Michel wrote: > > > > > > > > > I know you like analog technology much, but if you would change your > > analog sin/cos filters to digital LPF filters, you can then not only > > change the corner frequency very easily but you can most likely also > > remove the shaping pots and amplitude pots because the output voltages > > will be perfectly consistent. You don't need to create your 90 degrees > > phase shift by means of filtering, you can do that with a couple of > > diodes from the S0-S6 lines and another S/R flipflop so that you have > > 1 square wave 4.5kHz and another square wave with 90 degrees phase > > shift. Very easy, and no need to fine tune resistors and capacitors to > > get the perfect corner frequency. > > > Michel > > > On Sep 8, 6:38 pm, Michel wrote: > >> Hi Aaron, > > >>> Surprisingly, in 2 years and several clocks nothing has failed and there > >>> seem to be no odd symptoms. > > >> It's probably not all that critical then, but you may come around > >> another batch of MAX509's that fail after 2 months of use and then > >> you're going to wonder "hummm why is that?" > > >>> Your other ideas regarding the controller > >>> are really invaluable, I only hope to spare time to try some of them > >>> soon! > > >> No problem, if you can make it work with the 60 or 120 segments > >> (whatever is feasible) you can then use the circles to make magic eyes > >> to indicate GPS signal strength, number of satellites etc etc. It > >> would be more flexible than just 8 segments. > > >> Michel > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Slow ionizing nixies
This does pretty much do the trick, so that point is proven. I just don't feel happy with the solution knowing the tube doesn't perform as good as the other tubes, so still decided to replace it :-). Michel On Sep 12, 7:22 am, Michel wrote: > Hi Marcin, > > That is exactly right, the blue backlight LEDs can indeed be used for > this purpose. They do already come on if the tube doesn't ionize but > the LED current in low ambient light is very low so there's not many > photons emitted. I changed my code a bit yesterday so that I can > inject a variable boost current for the initial 160us, 320us, 640us or > 1280us. I am trialing this at the moment and so far the results are > really good. > > Michel > > On Sep 12, 6:40 am, marcin wrote: > > > > > > > > > It is necessary to somehow ionize the gas a bit. Light is good, radiation > > is. Some people - eg. this guyhttp://eeberfest.net/gallery.php?set=thebox > > use UV LEDs to ensure ionization in dark conditions. Maybe it would be > > possible to somehow use your blue LEDs? I have no idea if they would be > > sufficient and how much time they would need to sufficiently ionize the > > gas. Just an idea. > > Marcin > > > On Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:52:20 UTC+2, Michel wrote: > > > > I did some extensive testing today and made the conclusion that these > > > slow tubes need much more ambient light to ionize than other tubes. > > > Raising the anode voltage to 200V rather than 170/180 is not doing > > > much at all, I only see a dramatic improvement when I expose them to > > > more ambient light. Could that be related to the amount of mercury > > > vapor then? Is it then just a badly manufactured tube or is that due > > > to its age? > > > > Michel > > > > On Sep 5, 8:30 am, marta_kson wrote: > > > > Just a thought as the off-time before the problem reappears seems to > > > > be very long, may the mercury in the tube be involved in some way? > > > > That would take minutes to condense. The loss of ionization is a > > > > microsecond process, so the explanation must be something else. The > > > > mercury insertion is also something that could had some process > > > > variations at the manufacture making some tubes worser than other even > > > > in the same batch. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixies in EETimes
The PICs being so dirt cheap, I designed my first 6 controller board just a few weeks ago. That is a board not bigger than 10x6cm. I even find it more convenient to take a PIC rather than a simple NE555 for example. That would have sound crazy a couple of years ago, I know The only thing that is a bit inconvenient is programming 6 controllers on 1 board. You either need to program them before soldering them, use tricks that allow you to multiplex them to a single programming port or use 1 programming port for each controller. For my circuit I choose the latter one, it wasn't my first choice but it ended up to be the best choice. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 Spectrum analyzer
Nice idea! Have you see this 20 tube model already? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=NqsuAlrJUOc&NR=1 Michel On Sep 20, 7:34 am, Adam Jacobs wrote: > It would be cool to make one with more channels for analyzing the > quality of your amateur radio transmissions.. Something to think about > for another day. :) My Swan 500c puts spurious emissions all over the > place. I probably don't want to know what they look like. :S > > -Adam > > On 9/19/2012 2:31 PM, Nicholas Stock wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ascending and descending orange glow tubes, why wouldn't it sell! I'd > > probably tinker with one...;-) Why only 7 channels? May I ask what > > frequency ranges you decided to sample? > > > Nick > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Adam Jacobs > <mailto:a...@jacobs.us>> wrote: > > > Pretty neat. As an audiophile toy, I suspect that it would sell > > well. Something to put on top of that all-tube amplifier. > > > -Adam > > > On 9/19/2012 2:02 PM, Dan Foster wrote: > >> Hello everyone, > >> I am thinking of selling a IN-13 spectrum analyzer, either fully > >> assembled or in kit form. I've just ordered the preliminary > >> boards to get the final prototype together, but it would be 7 > >> bands with a 3.5mm jack input. 12v input from wall power, and > >> possibly a mini USB port. The final product would be around 3.5 > >> inches long and 1.3 inches tall, with the tubes going up from the > >> front. Below is a render of the enclosure to give you an idea of > >> how it might look. I'm still deciding on whether or not to leave > >> the sides open. Let me know what you guys think and if there is > >> enough of a market I will produce some. > >> Thanks! > >> Dan > > >> > >> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-maek3WcQrc4/UFoyqi5UDMI/VP...> > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >> Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. > >> To post to this group, send an email to > >> neonixie-l@googlegroups.com <mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >> <mailto:neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >> To view this discussion on the web, visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/1aMMJWi-q3wJ. > >> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to > > neonixie-l@googlegroups.com <mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 Spectrum analyzer
Talking about tube amps, I got a Lafayette LA-214A tube amplifier from someone about 20 years ago. It's got EL-84 power tubes, 1 for each channel if I remember well (class-A). I did restore it a bit, the sound is great and I really like the design as well. http://xiac.com/Images/Lafayette_LA-214A.JPG Michel On Sep 20, 7:28 am, Adam Jacobs wrote: > Pretty neat. As an audiophile toy, I suspect that it would sell well. > Something to put on top of that all-tube amplifier. > > -Adam > > On 9/19/2012 2:02 PM, Dan Foster wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > I am thinking of selling a IN-13 spectrum analyzer, either fully > > assembled or in kit form. I've just ordered the preliminary boards to > > get the final prototype together, but it would be 7 bands with a 3.5mm > > jack input. 12v input from wall power, and possibly a mini USB port. > > The final product would be around 3.5 inches long and 1.3 inches tall, > > with the tubes going up from the front. Below is a render of the > > enclosure to give you an idea of how it might look. I'm still deciding > > on whether or not to leave the sides open. Let me know what you guys > > think and if there is enough of a market I will produce some. > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-maek3WcQrc4/UFoyqi5UDMI/VP...> > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web, visit > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/1aMMJWi-q3wJ. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Fun new video on our work, w/ lots of beautiful Nixie shots
That is a cool video Matt! I like that nixie tube counter that you put at the door opening. Like you said, if this was done with some form of LED or LCD display, nobody would give a flip, but with the nixie tubes it becomes something special. Michel On Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:45:07 PM UTC+10, Matt wrote: > > CTV and Ford recently did a short profile of the art+tech work my partner > and I do, and within it we talk a bit about and show a couple of Nixie > pieces. There's also a beautiful panning shot of the Cathode Corner nixie > clock that sits on my desk... (thanks, David Forbes!). > > Enjoy: > http://intersections.ctv.ca/mobile/vid/gorbet_vb500.mp4 > > (you can see a higher resolution version at http://intersections.ctv.cabut > the interface is a bit hard to navigate and you have to watch Ford ads. > However there are some other really great profiles on that site to > explore.) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/hyrmTLjqgV0J. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie 74141 help
Not sure if inputs A, B, C and D are '0' on default, you better connect them to GND. You also need a series resistor with your LED (at least 680 ohm) and keep in mind that an LED has an anode and cathode. Wish this helps. Michel On Sep 25, 12:42 pm, Sean wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how a 74141 IC works, but it's making me feel > stupid. Please keep in mind that i am completely new to electronics and > circuits. Help?!? > > I've got a 74141 on a breadboard. Based on the datasheets and nixie clock > schematics I've been studying I put 5vdc at pin 5 and pin 12 to ground. Right > now I'm just trying to light up an LED (some nixies are coming in the mail). > So I connected the LED to the 5v and to the 0 output at pin 16. Since all > four inputs are at no power shouldn't this light the LED. Please tell me I'm > just doing something stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie tube making: first glow lamp up and running
Nice work Jens! Would be a good combination, nixie tube clock with glow lamp colons or something like that. It doesn't seem as bright as neon but that is probably because it is a prototype. Michel On Sep 27, 7:10 am, jb-electronics wrote: > Hi folks, > > finally I got my first glow lamp working. It is the third try, therefore > I call it "GL-LS-3", short for glow lamp lab sample 3. See two pictures > here: > > http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-3_1.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-3_2.jpg > > It consists of 9mm soda lime tubing and Dumet wire. The gas filling is > normal air at 9mbar. It ignites nicely at roughly 550V DC. > > I used a simple propane torch for the glass work. Will switch to a > hand-held oxygen-propane torch in a few months though (when I have > enough time and money). > > I will get my needle valve in two weeks or so, then I will be able to do > something with neon. Believe it or not: over two months lead time for a > silly needle valve... Anyway, I hope I will have the tube making content > prepared for my website by then. It is piling up, but there is still > much to do. > > Best regards > Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Polarity and current limiting resistor for INS-1 Nixie Lamps
Someone else might be able to confirm this but it looks to me like you connected it up the correct way. I just wonder one thing, if you see the light flickering as you say, can you actually measure (with a scope) that the voltage across the tube changes? If the voltage doesn't change, the tube is still doing it's normal zener function. Michel On Sep 30, 8:20 am, Paul S wrote: > Hi! I've been using INS-1 nixie lamps for a while and they have always > ended up flickering after a while. I think i might be doing a couple of > things wrong. > > A) Polarity. They light up any which way you wire them. from the Datasheet > (link) <http://tubehobby.com/datasheets/ins1.pdf> i can't definitively tell > what is the anode and what is the cathode. I know the dot means something, > but what it does I don't know. (Picture of > INS-1<http://f.cl.ly/items/2g0Z301L1c3f2y1R0n1e/Image%202012-09-29%20at%204...>) > I have tried wiring them either way and they still flicker... This is what > I think it should > behttp://f.cl.ly/items/2u1p3x3V263X3e3M0s3o/Image%202012-09-29%20at%205..., > is this correct? > > B) Current. I have a 170 VDC power supply with a 221k Ohm current limiting > resistor. It has been been running at 0.55mA. > > I'm now trying a higher current limiting resistor that brings the current > down to 0.45mA. Seems to be working, but I've had ones that worked before > and then they start flickering. Thanks for any help! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: My first two-digit Nixie tube!
Nice one Jens! I'd go for the binary clock, why not? I was thinking, is it possible to use a high voltage SCR in series with a lower voltage NPN in a construction like this: http://xiac.com/Images/SCR_NPN.gif The NPN can then turn off the SCR, so you can use a normal DC power supply. Michel On Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:44:39 PM UTC+11, dr pepper wrote: > > I've wondered about using little to92 triacs to run nixies from,you > can get them up to 800v fairly cheap, you'd need ac to power the tubes > of course. > > On 18 Oct, 07:51, "JohnK" wrote: > > They are cute ! > > Make more and do a Binary Clock. Use relays/valves if you don't want to > rig > > semis for the 550V+ . > > > > John K > > Australia > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "jb-electronics" > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:26 AM > > Subject: [neonixie-l] My first two-digit Nixie tube! > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > I did it: I have just built my first two-digit Nixie tube! I call her > > > "NX-LS-1". > > > > > She contains the digits 0 and 1 as well as a zig-zag anode. Filling is > (as > > > usual) air at 15mbar. I will have my needle valve shortly, then I will > be > > > able to do some neon thingies. > > > > > See some pictures here: > > > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_1.jpg > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_2.jpg > > > > > The digits glow in a nice purple, but my camera has a hard time to > grasp > > > the color. The truth is somewhat in between the very purple and very > blue > > > color in the following pictures: > > > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_3.jpg > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_4.jpg > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_5.jpg > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_6.jpg > > >http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_7.jpg > > > > > Jens > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "neonixie-l" group. > > > To post to this group, send an email to > > > neoni...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hide > > > quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/lFhd09MFudMJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: A new Halloween feature at Oscilloclock.com
Fantastic! Very creative! Now composing a list with all seasonal feasts around the world and see if there is a new theme for every day / week. Really cool! I envy the amount of time you have to work on such a project :-) I barely have time to occasionally make a nixie watch! Michel On Oct 20, 2:52 am, Oscilloclock wrote: > Hi all, > > For those following me at Oscilloclock.com and perhaps building your own, > take a look at a new software feature, "Seasonal > Treats"<http://oscilloclock.com/archives/597>. > I think you might like it. This is a simple application of a basic Sprite > Engine I am developing, which will push the current 1.0x hardware design to > its max... > > Michel, this is definitely inspired by some of the discussion we had. Let's > see how far I can take this before that major redesign is required! > > Best > Aaron Stokeshttp://oscilloclock.com > > <https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y4n51PfPZUE/UIF2tgIyhyI/AA...> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: New Nixie watch video
That looks nice David! Definitely better than the renderings you previously showed us. It's very 1960's style I would say, smooth and sleek, no trouble passing airport security. I think compared to your previous version, it looks much better but at the same time it will probably attract less attention. It could be more like "I am wearing a nixie watch" rather than "hey look, he is wearing a nixie watch". It's a bit like U-boat bringing a 35mm diameter / 8mm thin watch onto the market. It would still be a nice watch but out of proportions and people wouldn't recognize it as a U- boat. I would still prefer to see more of the tubes themselves rather than the digits only. I know you explained the reason why doing it this way, which is totally fair, it's just a personal preference. Is the official release going to be somewhat water resistant? I have found that to be quite important as it is very easy to get it wet even though you try your best to protect it from water. Last time you mentioned you wouldn't update the software (much). The thing I am missing is some form of tube brightness control. You can see in your video that the digits are totally overexposed, which is not a problem for the video, but if you wake up in the middle of the night and want to know the time, you're in for a serious shock! I know this because that is what happens if I put my watch on constant brightness rather than adjusted to the ambient light. Anyway, it is a nice watch and it looks much better than what I thought it was going to look like. Michel On Oct 20, 3:51 pm, David Forbes wrote: > Folks, > > I finally got the first article of my new Nixie watch built. > > See it here:www.youtube.com/watch?v=MayQ2zil768 > > The video is home-made, but it gets the point across. > > I hope to be producing these in a few months. I will offer a few watches > as beta units at a discounted price for intrepid early adopters, > provided you agree to give me useful feedback about the watch. > > I'm also interested in ideas for colors to anodize the front of the case > (the rear is stainless steel). I'm currently considering clear, black, > and orange. > > -- > David Forbes, Tucson AZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie watch case update
Yes, I agree, the design on the right is better than your new sleek one. If you can reduce the dial diameter to say 52mm or below, and a bit thinner, you'll end up with a better watch while still maintaining the shape and look of your popular nixie watch. I had a few people commenting that the battery lasts only 6 weeks when you wear it on a daily bases due to faulty time triggers, so you may see if you can improve that. I am wearing my watch almost every day for about 6 months now, total readings 20,338 and battery still going strong. I think that the average time readings of 50 per day is not really a good number, it is closer to 125 on average. Michel On Nov 6, 5:24 pm, David Forbes wrote: > Dear all, > > In spite of having designed a new sleek Nixie watch, I still have many > requests for the big old style. I can't argue; the Woz has made it a > must-have item. > > I have had many requests to make the lugs more beefy, and the strap a > bit wider. I am going from 20mm to 22mm. > > What do you think of the new lug design? Is it OK, or are some > proportions off? > > http://www.nixiewatch.com/casetest.html > > -- > David Forbes, Tucson AZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie watch case update
I noticed that my watch also has faulty time triggers, but only when you cover it with a long sleeve (which I seldom do). It really depends on the reflective properties of the sleeve whether it will trigger time readings or not. However, while the watch is covered, it will be in a darker environment and for this reason it won't use much energy to display the time. Although I haven't done so yet, the motion sensor can be disabled if you wear sleeves that have reflective properties close to the threshold level of the time trigger mechanism. You can then just push the button to initiate a time reading. When the trigger angle of David's watch is increased (like Jim said, close to 90 degrees), for sure that will reduce faulty time triggers. There is many occasions that I like to know the time but do not want this to be very obvious to others, with a 90 degree angle you cannot hide the fact that you are checking the time. With the refection sensor it is easy to twist your wrist a bit and reflect against something (say your other arm or a table or whatever there is close to you) to trigger a time reading while nobody else notices this. As for the 125 readings per day, if you say that this means checking the time every 7 or 8 minutes, yes it does sound a lot indeed! However, normally when I want to know the time this is for a reason (a schedule) and I probably then check it every 30 seconds, 10 times in a row or something like that. Maybe I do check the time more often than the average person, but I am quite sure that if you wear a "normal" watch you check the time much more frequent than if you need to hold your watch on a 90 degree angle that everyone will notice. Otherwise it will become a watch that you only wear on occasions. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Second Scope Clock
WOW! Looks like somebody had some fun here! That astronomical face is a very interesting idea, would be even better if it had a moon rise/ set curve and shape of that day's moon. Seems it becomes as one of those projects that is never truly finished :-) Great work! Michel On Nov 13, 9:24 pm, Grahame Marsh wrote: > Work in progress for a new scope clock. But fully working and complete > to date with schematics, layouts, all source code (GCC-AVR) and a > description of how it works. > > http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/scope2.html > > Enjoy > Grahame -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Second Scope Clock
> > Drilling is what really put me off home board making. These days, > > - John Drilling, vias and time is what put me off. I don't find DS boards particularly easy to do at home, sure it can be done but it is very easy to get a 0.5mm error in your film alignment. I could only do the exposure from one side, so I had to turn the board around. If you can do both sides at the same time, alignment will be easier to achieve. When living in Europe, I bought all the stuff from Conrad, boards, chemicals, tanks, heater elements, exposure frame etc etc. Very cheap for hobby, can probably buy the whole lot for less than 150 euro and still have good results. If you use a Laser printer, go for something 600dpi or better. The older Lasers were 300dpi and it is usually enough, but I find 600dpi to work just a bit better. I have also used inkjet printers with good results, you do need to find the correct film for your ink otherwise it will smear. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Second Scope Clock
It is irritating indeed, and at the same time very funny to trick some visitors. I wonder if anyone has ever noticed that the clock on a windows computer is also a bit erratic. If you click the clock next to the system tray and watch the seconds hand while watching your watch (how many watches is that in one sentence??) you will notice that the movement is very erratic, sometimes too slow sometimes too fast. Could be as much as half a second, just keep an eye on it for a minute. I checked it with a few computers and they all show this erratic seconds hand. Michel On Nov 15, 3:50 am, Nick wrote: > You need to do a "Vetinari" clock face > (e.g.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHKOhO_-hZY) > > Its just s irritating... > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: nixie help appreciated
If you say the whole circuit draws 500mA, you mean the total current of your HV circuit plus the LV circuit, right? You should measure how much of this 500mA is drawn by the HV circuit and how much by the LV circuit. If you're pumping 30mA through your nixie, it is not strange the HV circuit draws say 400mA, the question is then why does your LV circuit draw 100mA. Each input of your 75468 draws about 1.5mA when on, normally you have 6 of them on, one for each tube, say 10mA. If the current drawn when all is blanked is 5mA as you say, the LV circuit shouldn't draw much more than 15mA when all 6 tubes are on. Michel On Nov 22, 8:13 am, secretsather wrote: > Here's the schematic:http://secretsather.com/delme/schematic.png > > And the pic:http://secretsather.com/delme/IMGP0986.JPG > > Thanks again to anyone who's willing to help. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: nixie help appreciated
I just had a look at your picture, what is the function of that enormous capacitor you have there? It looks like this is C5 in your schematic to buffer the high voltage. I would say it is way too big and might even cause the strange problem you describing (dependent on the type of 12V power supply you are using). It should be much less in value than C1, say somewhere between 1uF and 10uF, but I think you got a couple of 100's of uF in your circuit. Michel On Nov 22, 8:13 am, secretsather wrote: > Here's the schematic:http://secretsather.com/delme/schematic.png > > And the pic:http://secretsather.com/delme/IMGP0986.JPG > > Thanks again to anyone who's willing to help. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: nixie help appreciated
I think you'll find that replacing the 220uF cap with a 0.47uF cap will solve your problem. Although I realize it may sound strange I think what happens is that when the HV switch opens, C1 cannot supply the current to charge this huge capacitor and the current will flow in negative direction through the 7805 which causes it to heat up. You may want to put a series diode in forward direction to the input of the 7805, that will also solve the problem I think. Michel On Nov 24, 6:08 am, secretsather wrote: > @nixiebunny - I will give this a shot. I wonder if this could be the cause? > > @Michel - Yes, it's drawing 500mA total current (both lv and hv), so I'll > isolate the LV and check it with a meter to see how much current it is > drawing next time I get a chance (hard to do things around the holidays) > Also, you're right about the capacitor, I looked at thge schematic I used > for the 555 nixie driver, and noticed it's only supposed to be a .47uF cap. > I'm using a 220uF, and what was I thinking? This will be the first thing I > try (is replace the cap). I'm using a lab power supply if that makes a > difference. > > @mikegregg - I don't have any resistors leading to the base of the > transistors. The datasheet for the transistor array I'm using says they > have a 2.2k on the base. Quoting from the datasheet, "The SN75468 has a > 2700-Ω series base resistor for each Darlington pair for operation directly > with TTL or 5-V > CMOS." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: nixie help appreciated
That certainly is good news. What a difference a capacitor can make :-) Once this works, the rest becomes and easy task. Michel On Nov 25, 4:28 am, secretsather wrote: > Replacing the cap helped. The whole circuit HV + LV together (after the cap > was replaced) is only drawing 70mA, which is around what I expected. > > I added a second shift register to the one pictured, as well as a second > tube. The circuit then was drawing 80mA, which is fantastic. I now have > every component soldered to the board, so I'll be firing it up later today > (after I do some programming and testing), but I believe this is going to > work for me. I attached a pic if you're interested to see it. > > I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. It's one of those weird > things that I never would have thought would be the problem. > > IMGP0989b.jpg > 356KViewDownload -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-9's for sale
Just out of interest, is the IN-9 brighter than the IN-13? IN-9 requires 10mA current for full bar and IN-13 4mA. Wondering where the extra 6mA goes to, heat or light? Michel On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:41:16 AM UTC+11, Dan Foster wrote: > > Hello, > I have a few (10) IN-9 Bargraph tubes that I no longer want, thought I'd > ask here before I list them on eBay. Anyone interested? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/tokUQ1-9DFMJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-9's for sale
Thanks for the info Adam. It doesn't really explain why the current is higher / sensitivity is lower for the IN-9. I still expect the IN9 to be brighter as the higher current should ionize more neon. Maybe I should measure it one day. Michel On Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:25:31 AM UTC+11, Adam Jacobs wrote: > > I found this at radiomuseum.org: > > > At this point, I should clarify the difference between the IN-9 and the > IN-13 > > The IN-13 takes up to 5mA for a 12cm orange glow from Neon gas, and has > three electrodes. One perforated cylinder as the anode, a central wire > cathode for the glow, and a short pilot cathode to start the glow. > > Most IN-9 take up to 10mA for a 10cm purple glow from Argon gas, and only > have two electrodes. > > But some IN-9, like the one used in this thread, are filled with Neon gas > and glow orange, but the current rating and size are still same. > > Confusion between the two glow colors caused me to make a mistake I made > in this thread: The tube you see in this thread is a *2 pin IN-9*, not a > 3 pin IN-13. > > In terms of application of the tube, the two glow tubes the significant > differences are the maximum current and the extra pilot cathode for the > IN-13. The strike voltage around 120V and sustain voltage around 100V are > similar among all three tubes. > > The IN-13 has twice the sensitivity of the IN-9, so this should be taken > into account when applying the tube. If the glow swing is too extreme, some > resistance in series with the tube can be added. > > The pilot cathode of the IN-13 requires a small current to insure that the > main cathode starts properly. This negative bias could be obtained with a > 100-500kOhm resistor to the grid circuit of the local oscillator. The grid > of the local oscillator, usually develops around -10V, which is enough to > supply up to 100uA into the pilot cathode of the IN-13. > > The extra -10V of bias at the pilot cathode of the IN-13, eliminates the > need for the startup circuit with a diode and resistor, which I included in > the circuit above for the IN-9. This was necessary because the low B+ of an > AC/DC 117VAC radio may not guaranty the starting voltage for the two > terminal IN-9. > > Best regards, > > -Joe > > > -Adam > > On 11/28/2012 1:08 PM, Michel wrote: > > Just out of interest, is the IN-9 brighter than the IN-13? IN-9 requires > 10mA current for full bar and IN-13 4mA. Wondering where the extra 6mA goes > to, heat or light? > > Michel > > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:41:16 AM UTC+11, Dan Foster wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I have a few (10) IN-9 Bargraph tubes that I no longer want, thought I'd >> ask here before I list them on eBay. Anyone interested? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/tokUQ1-9DFMJ. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/9dhUW-PyGOwJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: GeekKlok and FLW up for grabs
Hi Ray, What's happened with your FLW clocks in the past has nothing to do with me as I am just a newbie. I did follow this post for a few reasons, 1, I initially felt sorry for you and I thought someone needs to help this guy out, 2 after hearing what had happened before, it is interesting to see what's on people's minds and how they express that. 3 I felt some relief that the gators and crocs were not only after me as I had a similar experience when I started my nixie watch :-) 4 It seems to develop with a good outcome, both for you and for the group. I think the proposal from IRA is good, I'd also be interested in the technical details of your clock. Just include some JPG files of the schematics, that makes it easier to have a look at it. Once they're up, I also have $20 for you shared as 50/50. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Testing nixie tubes
I wonder what is the best way to test nixie tubes to be fairly sure they will work just fine. I encountered a few issues, but this one is new to me. I had tested a tube and made sure all segments would work. I put them into my circuit and after a while noticed my number 2 digit didn't light up anymore. I thought it would be a bad connection although I couldn't see anything. I am using cathode side transistors so I soldered 2 digits together and expected both of them to light up at the same time, but actually, neither of them would light up. So I am thinking there is a short between the cathode of number 2 digit and the anode. I took the tube out, measure with an ohm meter and measure 1.6k ohm!! That explained the problem, but how can that happen? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Some time ago I read that it would be good practice to let each cathode lit at maximum rated current for about 2 minutes, I can't find that page no more so I am not too sure about the reasoning behind it. If metal sputters are a cause of the problem, it could more likely show up in these first 2 minutes of maximum drive I guess. Putting the tubes in sockets would be an advantage in this case. I am actually surprised how easy it is to change a faulty (or broken) tube, it takes less effort than I had expected. It's quite easy to heat up all the legs together, take the tube out and then use some wick to empty the holes. Crucial here is to use a solder that has lots of flux. My board setup is different from yours, so sockets would simply not fit. Michel On Dec 7, 5:00 pm, threeneurons wrote: > You just got unlucky. The metal that sputters off the cathodes, formed > crude metal film resistors; partial short. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it could also be too small to see.... Michel On Dec 7, 7:24 pm, Dekatron42 wrote: > I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside > some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes manufactured > by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to a lot of the > Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, here: > *http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142*<http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142>. > In some Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases > I had to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose > again. Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an > occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the > current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus > the ZM1050/Z550M. > > /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Interesting Martin, it seems to me that after manufacturing, these nixie tubes did not undergo the same failure tests as modern electronic parts. I find quite a few tubes that have a piece of one cathode segment not lighting up. Is that because they're so old or has that never been tested when they were packed? Michel On Dec 8, 12:29 am, Dekatron42 wrote: > Michel, I am glad that it worked for you to hit it with a screwdriver! > > I have one Z504S which has four small pieces of wire inside the glass > envelope, the longest one is 3mm and the shortest one is 0.5mm - I bought > four Z504S's on eBay and they all had a few loose wires inside. These only > work upside down as the wires then collect at the top of the glass > envelope, any other way and the wires fall down between the pins and result > in shorts or "neon" lamps if they fall in the wrong place. > > /Martin > > > > > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:44:12 AM UTC+1, Michel wrote: > > I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your > > link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been > > the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I > > don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it > > could also be too small to see > > > Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I haven't run them yet on elevated currents, I'll give that a try later on. At the moment it is easier to just replace the tube and give it a mark. I also have 1 tube that shows another interesting phenomena. I can light up the decimal point with any digit except number 1. The decimal point fades to almost invisible when I light digit 1, while with all others it shows just fine. I find it particularly strange because digit 1 is I think the furthest digit away from the decimal point. Michel On Dec 9, 5:56 am, Quixotic Nixotic wrote: > On 8 Dec 2012, at 15:58, threeneurons wrote: > > > "Sleeping Sickness". A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered > > for some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the > > surface of the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they > > light up, unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run > > them for a few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the > > problem. But not always. > > I have today run a pair of new Burroughs B5092 round top view jobbies and > they both had cathodes that refused to light. In one or two cases the legs > would glow instead of the digit. A couple of digits looked plain dead. After > poking about lighting various digits they have all woken up and started to > fire normally, which is a relief. Trying to fire them later they were again > sluggish for the first few attempts to light. I am sure they will start > behaving better once they are run in. > > John S -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Thanks Ron, Would you recommend doing this for all tubes or only the ones that show a problem? I just wonder if perhaps it would be good to do this procedure anyways, then I can make a test circuit using some triacs. Michel On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger wrote: > Hello! > > Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer > with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up > using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning. > Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot > though. A few milliamps is enough. > > ron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Hello Ron, I see, so actually what you're saying is if they don't work properly straight away, it is better not to use them at all. That's what I am doing right now :-). I'll still give the AC a go with some of them, and then see if the problem will return afterwards. It's quite easy to test it that way, but then I won't need to design a complete test circuit. Michel On Dec 11, 12:53 am, glasslinger wrote: > Hello! > If the tubes are working fine I would just use them. This is a way to > salvage finicky tubes that you would be not using. I would bet that these > tubes were the result of poor production quality control since there are so > many that never develop problems. The thing to remember too is that all > current run through a tube uses up some of its ultimate life. Thus whether > regenerating tubes or using them in a clok or other project apply only what > current is necessary so you preserve as much life as possible. I have found > that it is not practical to rebuild nixie tubes. The ones I have rebuilt > develop problems after a few dozen hours of use, and I have not found > exactly why. > > ron > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign > > transformer > > > with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light > > up > > > using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the > > poisoning. > > > Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot > > > though. A few milliamps is enough. > > > > ron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
> I can't bear to throw away the ones that > don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do > work are gone. > > -- > David Forbes, Tucson, AZ Yes, I know what you're saying, I even keep the cracked tubes :-) although they are completely useless to me, maybe one day someone might like to have them. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Sgitheach web page update
Great design and source of information Graham! Fantastic. Just wondering about 1 thing, is it possible to adjust the brightness of the scopeclock according to the ambient light? Usually you would use the control grid of course, but what it you would adjust the current through the filament? It would both lower the power consumption and increase the life of the tube, I would expect? The IN9 / IN13 bargraph clock is my next project!! Tubes are on the way but hope I will have some time to work on it :-) Michel On Dec 12, 12:51 am, Grahame Marsh wrote: > Hi > > I have added a webpage where I test a variety of other small CRTs with > the scope clock 2 hardware. > > http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/scope2a.html > > This page will continue to carry updates as I trial other CRTs and other > PSU configurations. I'm still extending the range of clock faces and > adding multi language support. > > The rubidium oscillator clock workover is completed and the designs are > all here. The complete software including the source code written using > the free GCC -AVR C complier is available for download. > > http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/atomic.html > > The Giant 7 "Jon Ellis" Segment Clock page now has the software (again > GCC-AVR) available for download. > > http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/ss.html > > Cheers Grahame -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Anybody have any ITS1A for sale?
Reversing the diode would be a bad idea as the current will have nowhere to go once the HV switch opens. What you could do is take an ordinary AC transformer (say 240V primary 12V secondary), go from AC to DC using a rectifier bridge and capacitor, then feed your 555-based HV circuit out of this DC voltage. Then connect the +300V to the GND of your circuit and you have a -300V where normally the GND would be. Just be sure not to power anything else out of this secondary winding. Michel On Dec 19, 10:56 am, Joseph Bento wrote: > Jonathan, > > I'm going to hold off a bit on selling them. The more I look at the clock > on the decadecounter web site, the closer it resembles the single digit > Nixie or VFD clocks I've built in the past. I'm going to try that basic > circuit, and see what I can do with a 555-based switchmode supply. It > would seem I might be able to reverse the diode as part of the -300 supply. > > Joe, N6DGY > > > > > > > > On Monday, December 17, 2012 8:59:03 AM UTC-7, Jonathan wrote: > > Joe, > > > I thought that once you met the oddball voltage requirements that these > > were easily driven with TTL logic levels? So your uC or whatever is the > > driver? > > > Wanna sell the ones you have? :-0 > > > Jonathan > > > On 12/16/2012 6:55 PM, Joseph Bento wrote: > > > That's the thyratron based 7-segment display? I have a set I purchased > > years ago from a US seller, and am still researching a suitable driver to > > build a clock. > > > I don't understand the practicality of such a display, or why the Russians > > developed this. Nixie and numitrons were already very mature at the time > > these were made. > > > Joe > > > On Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:10:03 AM UTC-7, Jonathan wrote: > > >> As the title suggests, I'd love to buy some of those tubes. Dang john > >> for linking to those tubes, they were just so cool I want some! > > >> Jonathan > >>www.madlabs.info > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to > > neoni...@googlegroups.com > > . > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . > > To view this discussion on the web, visit > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/qL4ASahwJPkJ. > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie watch on TV
The Woz will soon wear my version of the Apple-I-Watch: http://xiac.com/Apple-I-Watch.JPG :-) Michel On Dec 31 2012, 6:24 am, fixitsan wrote: > Just watching Big Bang Theory, and Steve Wozniak is wearing his nixie watch > > Cool -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] IN-9 tube gas discrepancies and cathode poisoning issues
I bought a couple of IN-13 tubes a few weeks ago for my pending clock project. After reading this, I thought I better hookup a couple just to see what problems I can expect :-). Initially the tube would only light up to about 80% of full length at a current of 4.7mA (SMPSU). I then pulsed (by hand) the tube on/off say 5 seconds on, 3 seconds off. Every time the tube would light about 1 millimeter more than the time before until it reached the full length. Sometimes the primer cathode really helps and sometimes it doesn't and the beam moves up the tube. I assume that using the 100Hz rectified mains will solve that problem, but I haven't tried that yet. Michel On Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:14:53 PM UTC+11, Grahame Marsh wrote: > > Hi Alex > > I've only used the IN13 (the one with the primer electrode) and they all > did as you described initially (despite the primer). I wrote the > microcontroller code to repeatedly sweep the tube current up and down > over about a second and left a batch of 8 running continuously. I think > it was several days before the "worst" tubes started to behave > correctly. Rinse and repeat until my purchase (a few dozen only) were > nearly all working. I have a couple that I couldn't unstick. I only > used a modest overcurrent at the top end. Since then the seven I have > in service (a "Jon Ellis" giant 7 segment clock) have operated without > fault. I don't know if the sweeping was an effective method or whether > it was just the exposure time. > > http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/ss.html > > Grahame > > > On 05/01/2013 09:54, Alex wrote: > > Hi guys, > > > > I have been stock piling bar-graph tubes for a while now due to > > their relatively cheap price and potential for interesting looking > > clocks or other animated displays. > > Due to a few being smashed in a recent shipment I decided to sit down > > and work through testing all 450 or so IN-9's that I have to see what > > they are like. > > > > Now, the first interesting point is that it seems that the white > > topped IN-9 can be either Neon or Argon, it seems most of mine are > > Argon which is quite annoying as the neon is a much richer red! I > > actually paid a bit more for a couple of purple topped argon tubes > > assuming them to be a lovely purple colour hence I was disappointed to > > find they are identical to about 70% of my conventional IN-9's (and > > badly cathode poisoned)! > > > > This brings me to the second point and a quick question, has anyone > > got any advice on getting these things to behave a bit better, some > > have fairly epic cathode poisoning with the glow starting in the > > middle or snapping to / hugging the other end or making large jumps up > > the tube. Are these things usually quite awful or have I just got bad > > batches? I have tried burning some in at upto about 40mA which has > > resolved some of the minor issues but on some seems to make them even > > more keen to glow from the other end... > > > > I have a few hundred IN-13's to test as well soon and am just hoping > > they are not as bad as these have turned out to be... > > > > Any advice on these tubes would be appreciated, hopefully a 64 channel > > VU meter will follow before long ;-) > > > > - Alex > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "neonixie-l" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to > > neoni...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . > > To view this discussion on the web, visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/W7oabYSL9SgJ. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/S74gmIMT1QsJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] SMPSU efficiency
Hello Folks, While experimenting with an IN-13 bargraph tube I thought it would be interesting to connect it up to my nixie watch HV supply and see how far the bar would go. Since the voltage of the tube is lower than the nixie tubes, the nixies won't light up when the bar graph tube is wired parallel to the HV (as expected). This means all the current from the HV supply goes through this bar graph tube and make it very easy to measure the HV efficiency. The drawn battery current is 130mA; battery voltage 3.37V. The average HV supply is 112V and average tube current 3.1mA this would result in a 79% efficiency. However, you can only use the average values if either the tube voltage or tube current is constant; in my case this is not so. So I would say I need to use the RMS values of tube voltage and tube current. If I measure these with a scope, I come to 113V RMS and 3.73mA RMS. This would then result in a 96% efficiency!!! This measuring must be correct, right? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Anybody want to build some nixie tubes?
I think they should be a bit more accurate. If you can make 1,000 tubes, you effectively pay $40 for each tube and you still need to make them, not a very good profit forecast. If it is for 10,000 tubes, they cost $4 per tube + the expense and time of making them which may be worth the money. Otherwise you need to source more material somewhere else so that you can make more than 1,000 tubes but how much would these materials cost? Michel On Feb 20, 6:14 am, "Jon D." wrote: > Wow, nice find! And it's all supposedly new and unused with materials for > 1,000-10,000 tubes. The photos are fantastic. > > Jon D. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] HVPS for nixie clock kit
I am a sort of working on a nixie clock kit and am wondering what kit builders would prefer for the HVPS circuit. I am thinking of using a standard 1363 module as it is cheap, easy to install and saves me designing time. Would most kit builders appreciate this or would they prefer to build the HVPS circuit from discrete parts? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: HVPS for nixie clock kit
Thanks Guys, I agree it's a good idea to incorporate sockets for at least 2 types of HV power supply modules, so I am thinking of using the 1363 for one of these sockets and a simple (555 based) for the second socket. The 555 based HVPS is then discrete, easy to repair. Not sure about audible noise though. The clock will be direct drive, so that is one problem solved but the HVPS is another story. If the switching frequency is above 20kHz, you wouldn't really hear the effects of a ripple current through a ceramic capacitor, right? Michel On Apr 2, 10:31 am, AlexTsekenis wrote: > Hi Michel, > > Using a drop-in module is not a bad idea. The advantage is that it saves > you time to focus on what would make your kit stand out - most likely not > the power supply. > The disadvantages are that it might cost you a few extra cents in volume > and it might go out of stock for an unknown period of time. > > You can alleviate the supply security issue by designing-in a second or > third footprint so you can accommodate multiple standard modules. > > Not sure if I agree with you Martin on ease of repair. Chances are, once > soldered on the board and put in the enclosure you will forget about it. > If it develops a fault and it is the power supply, you could kindly ask for > one from Michel who will have a pile purchased at low cost. IMO that would > be excellent customer support Michel. Maybe what you meant Martin is * > satisfaction* from repair using components laying around? > > You are making a good point on noise. If I had such a module I would fully > characterise the ripple current through the ceramic output capacitor, but > it certainly will contain harmonics within the audible range. Ceramic > capacitors are piezoelectric, so they will vibrate much like a piezo > speaker. > > Another member of the forum had noise issues and we tried dipping the > module in varnish. Slight difference, still noisy. Covering it with > silicone took away most of the noise, if I remember correctly. These > operations will require your time if you are making many kits...better to > find modules that are, let's say, plug & play. > > Regards, > Alex > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 1, 2013 11:26:03 PM UTC+1, Michel wrote: > > > I am a sort of working on a nixie clock kit and am wondering what kit > > builders would prefer for the HVPS circuit. I am thinking of using a > > standard 1363 module as it is cheap, easy to install and saves me > > designing time. Would most kit builders appreciate this or would they > > prefer to build the HVPS circuit from discrete parts? > > > Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] ZX81 Nixie Clock
After cleaning out the garage a few weeks ago and stumbling across my good old ZX81 (well, TS1000 really), I thought it would be quite interesting to turn it into a Nixie Clock! Here's the result: http://xiac.com/Images/ZX81NIXIECLOCK.jpg I designed it with TTL logic, no SMD components here. It is direct drive using 4 K155ID4 drivers. If there is enough interest, I will offer this clock as a kit. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: ZX81 Nixie Clock
Seems like you personally know him? :-) I actually made this clock so that my wife wouldn't mind a ZX81 standing in the living room :-). If it wasn't a clock, it would have ended up in the bin I guess. The design was pretty straight forward of course but the real difficulty was to make it an accurate clock. The ZX81 frame interrupts (50Hz or 60Hz) don't come at exactly 20ms or 16.67ms intervals, in fact, without calibration routines the clock will run about 7 seconds fast every 10 minutes!! I made some calibration algorithm that could do additive calibration. Suppose you start with "roughly" 7 seconds per 10 minutes (skipping about 1 tick every 85 ticks @ 50Hz), then after say 2 hours you measured the clock runs 3 seconds slow, so you add to the previous calibration a 3/7200 correction. Then you take a measurement over 24hours and say it now runs 2 seconds fast, so you add a correction of -2/86400. If you do this, you eventually end up with a routine that can skip a tick every say 91.13579 ticks and it will (in theory) run as accurate as 1.5sec/year. Of course, not including effects of ambient temperature. I was surprised to see how active people still are with the ZX81/ TS1000, I haven't used mine for like 25 years or so. They cost peanuts on ebay. This kit is about AU$175 so including the ZX81 it is less than $225. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: ZX81 Nixie Clock
Thanks Aaron, I've only been in OZ for about 10 years so I know Dick Smith but not his Apple II clone :-) Yes, the possibilities of retro clocks is basically endless. The ZX81 only has 1k RAM including the screen memory and system variables... It is actually pretty hard to write some clock software in so little memory! I can finally set the time (had not yet implemented that). I think I got about 10 bytes free or so, not a lot :-). Anyway, this has been a fun project writing some code for the good old Z80! I remember in the 80's I wrote the assembler down on sheets of paper, then converted it to machine language through a look up table in the manual, then had to type all these numbers into a REM statement. It's a bit easier now having a decent editor and assembler! Another funny idea would be to take a matrix of INS-1 tubes (say 64x48 or so) and then make a pong game for an Apple II :-) Michel On Apr 23, 8:35 pm, Oscilloclock wrote: > Michel, that is beautiful! I love it! > > Being in Oz you may also know the Dick Smith CAT computer, an Apple II clone > also known as the Laser 3000. Several years back I designed a 'graphics card' > to interface my CAT to a modern *SVGA LCD screen. > > Now you give me an idea - interface it to my Oscilloclock!! > > Aaronhttp://oscilloclock.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: ZX81 Nixie Clock
Uploaded a video to youtube: http://youtu.be/WbNsSN-XIdg I added some cathode poisoning prevention to it, couldn't do much more than just revolving the digits as there's no more RAM left :-) The INS-1 colon tubes are now lighting up in the back of the tube rather than the front. Anyone knows why is that? I think I connected them the right way, the glass envelope has a small dot at one of the leads which I am pretty sure is the cathode. I drive them just over 0.5mA which is slightly too much, but that shouldn't reduce their life span to just a couple of days, right? Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
