Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Allan, (Please note that as I write this on 6/7, I have not checked my email in several days.) Yes, I have learned a lot reading in the newbie list, and I've only been doing if for a couple of months. I've found that sometimes others on newbie ask about some problem I about to deal with. And I did submit a couple of my question to this list (though not in the form below); I don't know if there have been any responses or I will do so again. Even just having general responses has been very helpful--for instance knowing that others ARE able to have WordPerfect and StarOffice helps me. Suggested tactics also help me. I've stopped reinstalling Mandrake; I'm getting confident enough that I might be able to fix problems. I've been bogged down and haven't had a chance to get back to several things. And for anybody that didn't read between the lines correctly, whereas there is a definite need for professional support (and it's quality reflects on McMillian) this list has been far more beneficial to me. Thanks to all of YOU!! -Gary- In a message dated 6/3/2000 2:31:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Garythis newbie list and its partner, the expert list, have a much broader knowledge base, especially for solving Linux Mandrake specific problems, than any paid email or phone support system could possibly have. I'm sure that you'll be able to solve your problem using one or both of these lists. Using them with, perhaps some extra patience, as not everybody who participates sees every message that gets posted. Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me be clear, I'm not complaining, rather I'm using my experiences and expectations to make a point. Poor support makes Mandrake look bad. I have been trying to get a sound configuration failure solved over two weeks and find Linuxcare to be nearly useless. They assume no reply in 48 hours means the problem is solved. Well, I'm learning Linux in my "spare time", let alone that I don't get to my mail that consistently. But the real problem seems to be that when I e-mail a reply to their proposed solution, referencing their incident number (usually in the subject line), I am assigned a new number each time. [I do not reply on-line as they apparently expect] [Are they billing based on the number of incidents solved?] My "reply" apparently goes to a new support person each time. With the most recent proposed solution the support person asked what product I had, even though I had refered to three other incident numbers [which contained all of the product, equipment advise information] as being the same unsolved issue -- (typically?) the support person was too rushed to review the matter, too rushed to be useful! Chunking support incidents like this obviously doesn't work. When one problem takes so long to solve, and is handled so poorly, it makes Mandrake look bad. Support should also be for everything supplied in the retail package, not just the basic system install (Linuxcare support said my problem with Word Perfect and Star Office corrupting X windows was beyond the scope of the support supplied by Mandrake-followed by an ad for paid support). [Given the support I have experienced I certainly don't want to purchase support from them.] I bought Mandrake because I wanted to accomplish something, I was not buying "a new life" trying to make this work. Since these programs were both mentioned as "features" on the box (and both enclosed) it seems reasonable that if I have a problem getting them set up support for that should be included. -Gary Prichard-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Security
Right! That gets my vote too... Glyn M. On Thu, Jun 01, 2000 at 03:28:17PM -0400, thus spake [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree with Joseph S. Gardner's comment (below). A firewall as part of the initial installation of Linux-Mandrake (even for a newbie) is a good idea. Some people will have cable modems and other things that are on all the time and thus have a need for a firewall before they know it or know enough to try to put one in. -Gary- -- ** * "The soul is greater than the hum of its parts. " * * Douglas Hoftstatder* **
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Garythis newbie list and its partner, the expert list, have a much broader knowledge base, especially for solving Linux Mandrake specific problems, than any paid email or phone support system could possibly have. I'm sure that you'll be able to solve your problem using one or both of these lists. Using them with, perhaps some extra patience, as not everybody who participates sees every message that gets posted. Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me be clear, I'm not complaining, rather I'm using my experiences and expectations to make a point. Poor support makes Mandrake look bad. I have been trying to get a sound configuration failure solved over two weeks and find Linuxcare to be nearly useless. They assume no reply in 48 hours means the problem is solved. Well, I'm learning Linux in my "spare time", let alone that I don't get to my mail that consistently. But the real problem seems to be that when I e-mail a reply to their proposed solution, referencing their incident number (usually in the subject line), I am assigned a new number each time. [I do not reply on-line as they apparently expect] [Are they billing based on the number of incidents solved?] My "reply" apparently goes to a new support person each time. With the most recent proposed solution the support person asked what product I had, even though I had refered to three other incident numbers [which contained all of the product, equipment advise information] as being the same unsolved issue -- (typically?) the support person was too rushed to review the matter, too rushed to be useful! Chunking support incidents like this obviously doesn't work. When one problem takes so long to solve, and is handled so poorly, it makes Mandrake look bad. Support should also be for everything supplied in the retail package, not just the basic system install (Linuxcare support said my problem with Word Perfect and Star Office corrupting X windows was beyond the scope of the support supplied by Mandrake-followed by an ad for paid support). [Given the support I have experienced I certainly don't want to purchase support from them.] I bought Mandrake because I wanted to accomplish something, I was not buying "a new life" trying to make this work. Since these programs were both mentioned as "features" on the box (and both enclosed) it seems reasonable that if I have a problem getting them set up support for that should be included. -Gary Prichard-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
In a message dated 5/28/2000 12:39:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hugh why not simply us XFdrake ? Didn't know I could. I know that I have a lot to learn, and this is the position many others are going to be in as they get fed-up with windows. One tries what one can until they learn better. Thanks for showing me this one. -Gary-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
As I have mentioned elsewhere in newbie, I have just installed a couple of other "flavors" of Linux. It helps one appreciate Linux-Mandrake. One can begin doing things more quickly with what Mandrake has put on the desktop. I suggest, have RPMDrake ask if you want a desktop icon created during install of RPMs, especially for such major programs as Word Perfect or Star Office. Supply easy to find (that is, easy for a disoriented beginner) information about adding and removing desktop icons. The sooner one can be productive the more pleased with Mandrake they are likely to be. An excellent feature, for instance, is RPMDrake. But a little improvement would help some people. When I have used it, I have occasionally gotten an "install failed" message, followed by an "OK" box. This is not helpful. A useful message would be good, perhaps naming an error-log file. The RPM program is removed from the list of RPMs not yet installed (and not replaced), so trying to install it again is involved when it ought to be simple. I have (re)installed Mandrake many times (it gives a known starting place for traceing problems) and I think I was rushing through the RPM installs: it hadn't completed one install and I was feeding it the next, and it choked, a mistake a rank beginner wouldn't make. Usually beginners make mistakes experienced people wouldn't make, and trying to think of all of the possibilities (for error trapping) is the problem. Build on your strenth(s), address your weaknesses, Live long and prosper (?) -Gary Prichard-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Security
I agree with Joseph S. Gardner's comment (below). A firewall as part of the initial installation of Linux-Mandrake (even for a newbie) is a good idea. Some people will have cable modems and other things that are on all the time and thus have a need for a firewall before they know it or know enough to try to put one in. -Gary- Anthony Huereca wrote: I don't have M7.0 yet, but I like the idea of the different security zones. One of the main complaints I've heard on this mailing list is lack of desciption of what the different zones actually do. So tell the user what exactly is happening when you select a certain level. Or maybe, have like a checklist, where the user can pick and choose what exactly they want to do. That would be cool. Keep it simple (like 5 levels) for the avearage person, but let the expert pick and choose. And include some sample firewalls or something like that. Somethign that would be useful to the average Dial-up (or cable modem in my case) person, who doesn't need a lot of exceptions like for a FTP or web server, but just needs a good regular firewall. That way the user doesn't have to figure out all the ipchaining rules and stuff; which at the moment totally loses me everytime I try to read through the how-to. Of course, maybe it's not a good security idea for a "one-size-fits-most" firewall, but it's just a thought I had. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. A newbie firewall. Now THAT'S a great idea. -- Joseph S. Gardner Senior Designer / Technical Support Kirby Co., Cleveland, OH [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Let me be clear, I'm not complaining, rather I'm using my experiences and expectations to make a point. Poor support makes Mandrake look bad. I have been trying to get a sound configuration failure solved over two weeks and find Linuxcare to be nearly useless. They assume no reply in 48 hours means the problem is solved. Well, I'm learning Linux in my "spare time", let alone that I don't get to my mail that consistently. But the real problem seems to be that when I e-mail a reply to their proposed solution, referencing their incident number (usually in the subject line), I am assigned a new number each time. [I do not reply on-line as they apparently expect] [Are they billing based on the number of incidents solved?] My "reply" apparently goes to a new support person each time. With the most recent proposed solution the support person asked what product I had, even though I had refered to three other incident numbers [which contained all of the product, equipment advise information] as being the same unsolved issue -- (typically?) the support person was too rushed to review the matter, too rushed to be useful! Chunking support incidents like this obviously doesn't work. When one problem takes so long to solve, and is handled so poorly, it makes Mandrake look bad. Support should also be for everything supplied in the retail package, not just the basic system install (Linuxcare support said my problem with Word Perfect and Star Office corrupting X windows was beyond the scope of the support supplied by Mandrake-followed by an ad for paid support). [Given the support I have experienced I certainly don't want to purchase support from them.] I bought Mandrake because I wanted to accomplish something, I was not buying "a new life" trying to make this work. Since these programs were both mentioned as "features" on the box (and both enclosed) it seems reasonable that if I have a problem getting them set up support for that should be included. -Gary Prichard-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool
Here are some documents that might help you out. Hope it helps allthough I have not followed this discussion. This is as close as you will get to real easy compiling http://www.pcworld.com/heres_how/article/0,1400,13702,00.html http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/compiling/kernelcomp.html - Original Message - From: "Roman Bysh" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool | How about a compile wizard or is that asking for too much? | | Roman | | | Dacia and AzureRose wrote: | | That would be s cool! | | Dacia | --- "Joseph S. Gardner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Denis, | | I'd like to see a tool to assist in the compiling of | a new kernel and then | INSTALL it! | | | -- | Joseph S. Gardner | Handi Krafts | www.handi-krafts.com | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Linux is like a wigwam... | No windows, no gates. | Apache inside | | Registered linux user #1696600 | ICQ #63389227 | | | | __ | Do You Yahoo!? | Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. | http://im.yahoo.com/ | | _ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool
On Wed, 31 May 2000, you wrote: YES - Original Message - From: Dacia and AzureRose [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool That would be s cool! Dacia --- "Joseph S. Gardner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, I'd like to see a tool to assist in the compiling of a new kernel and then INSTALL it! -- AMEN -- -michael-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool
YES - Original Message - From: Dacia and AzureRose [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool That would be s cool! Dacia --- "Joseph S. Gardner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, I'd like to see a tool to assist in the compiling of a new kernel and then INSTALL it! -- Joseph S. Gardner Handi Krafts www.handi-krafts.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux is like a wigwam... No windows, no gates. Apache inside Registered linux user #1696600 ICQ #63389227 __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool
How about a compile wizard or is that asking for too much? Roman Dacia and AzureRose wrote: That would be s cool! Dacia --- "Joseph S. Gardner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, I'd like to see a tool to assist in the compiling of a new kernel and then INSTALL it! -- Joseph S. Gardner Handi Krafts www.handi-krafts.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux is like a wigwam... No windows, no gates. Apache inside Registered linux user #1696600 ICQ #63389227 __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Install
:~Denis, :~ :~How about a "Dear Santa, I want it all" selection? I know I can get that :~through the expert install but even this is confusing as there is a server / :~workstation selection (and something else if memory serves me) and this fails :~to make much sense. See what i proposed in "Authomatic Install" letter. -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo- Newbies aren't necessarily stupid nor uninformed, just lacking in experience with this specific OS. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Way Better Documentation
I think there has to be better documentation on the file structure of Linux. I come from a Windows AND MacOS background and both of these systems are fairly intuitive in terms of how to save files to certain drives. Linux documentation isn't as intuitive. RayWinbush
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Security
Anthony Huereca wrote: I don't have M7.0 yet, but I like the idea of the different security zones. One of the main complaints I've heard on this mailing list is lack of desciption of what the different zones actually do. So tell the user what exactly is happening when you select a certain level. Or maybe, have like a checklist, where the user can pick and choose what exactly they want to do. That would be cool. Keep it simple (like 5 levels) for the avearage person, but let the expert pick and choose. And include some sample firewalls or something like that. Somethign that would be useful to the average Dial-up (or cable modem in my case) person, who doesn't need a lot of exceptions like for a FTP or web server, but just needs a good regular firewall. That way the user doesn't have to figure out all the ipchaining rules and stuff; which at the moment totally loses me everytime I try to read through the how-to. Of course, maybe it's not a good security idea for a "one-size-fits-most" firewall, but it's just a thought I had. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. A newbie firewall. Now THAT'S a great idea. -- Joseph S. Gardner Senior Designer / Technical Support Kirby Co., Cleveland, OH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux is like a wigwam... No windows, no gates. Apache inside Registered linux user #1696600 ICQ #63389227
[newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - New Tool
Denis, I'd like to see a tool to assist in the compiling of a new kernel and then INSTALL it! -- Joseph S. Gardner Handi Krafts www.handi-krafts.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux is like a wigwam... No windows, no gates. Apache inside Registered linux user #1696600 ICQ #63389227
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Install
Denis, How about a "Dear Santa, I want it all" selection? I know I can get that through the expert install but even this is confusing as there is a server / workstation selection (and something else if memory serves me) and this fails to make much sense. -- Joseph S. Gardner Senior Designer / Technical Support Kirby Co., Cleveland, OH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux is like a wigwam... No windows, no gates. Apache inside Registered linux user #1696600 ICQ #63389227
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION : NIC/Cable/DSL/ISDN
Hi Denis, This is Bambi (or Fran if you prefer) Is that the same for my thoughts on the next Mandrake as well Denis? :) (Hadn't seen any reference to mine either...didn't know if the comments were not received or not received well, or what :) Just kidding here, Denis :) But I would be interested to know your thoughts on my DISCUSSION comments posted. I hope the comments were not taken as anything other than what they were, honest thoughts about a great Linux distribution, that in time will be even better. Thanks, Bambi Denis HAVLIK wrote: :~Since Denis did not comment on my suggestion, I think I have managed to get on :~his /dev/null list... At the moment noone is on my /dev/null list - I am reading all the mail. I did not answer, because I cannot answer this one. I have noted it for further discussion and that is all. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
My dreams: a self configuring cd rw install program that would make it possible for a stoopoid like me to use the writing not just the reading function of his cd burner. More printer support or mandrake sponsored how-to's not some college kids hacked driver and cryptical install info... My praise: All hail to thee mandrakesoft for a stable reliable friendly user interface and operating system. You are surely worthy of all good things! -michael brower-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
how much disc space do they need? Are we talking 10s or megs or 100s of megs? Sounds like 7.1 is around 1100 megs for a full install anyway. Is there a "minimum" install, what is in it? Perhaps the extra space could be gathered by dropping some of the redundent programs? If I need an extra 10 megs for these files I would be very willing to only have 1 cdplayer and lose all of the games. It wouldn't bother me to lose the tea timer or moon clock either. See where I'm going with this? Dacia --- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2000, Anthony Huereca wrote: Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. Good suggestion, but how would you like to see the system behave if all the devel-packages are selected but there is not enough diskspace for it? (provoking some real discussion here, I know ;) Paul )0(---)0( Nothing is as easy as it looks. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]]-)0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
[newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION : NIC/Cable/DSL/ISDN
Since Denis did not comment on my suggestion, I think I have managed to get on his /dev/null list... I suggest making the Network setup specialized since more people are using NIC's with their highspeed connections. So possibly MDKSoft could have an install/DrakX configuaration section specific for highspeed internet, and easy setup of IPChains/routing for sharing cable/dsl/isdn. Could someone maybe comment on this so that it doesn't reach Denis' /dev/null filter again...:) Jaguar The Dogma chased the Stigma, and was hit by the Karma. Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Linux-Mandrake should build on features it has already in place. During install the helpful information at the bottom of the screen could be actually useful, and should occupy more of the screen (it's like an after-thought now). The initial screen could be general info or good practice advice, and more detail available when scrolled. Like a reminded to backup DOS and be sure to have a bootable DOS floppy at the start of the Linux install so that if there is a problem when setting up dual-booting, for example, they will have access to their DOS even with a damaged MBR, for instance, and thus to help documents on the Linux CD. Don't advise people, and even if they created the problem they will associate the bad feeling with you because you didn't warn them. State specifically that with a bootable floppy they could use DOS to look at the HTML Linux documents for on-the-spot self-rescue and assistance. I haven't been reading newbie that long, but how to remove LILO or restore a DOS MBR comes up over and over again. Another help example: when choosing user names there are option buttons; the help indicates the name for the abbreviations, I think, but no explaination of what these options might mean to you or why you would want to choose or not choose these. Going further with this idea, there could be a trouble button for more information dealing with problems one might encounter, and possible corrections or ways to bypass the step until later. Using InstallUpgrade should actually be useful to reinstall only one thing (to bypass install steps not needed), for example, reinstall X windows if it should become damaged instead of this kind of upgrade reinstall hanging as it does. New people such as myself don't know enough to fix things and reinstalling is the lesser of the evils since there is nothing much to lose. Redoing one piece is better than having to redo everything. I suggest more manuals and How-To pages in HTML and made accessible (to DOS) on the Mandrake-Linux CDROM so people learn more before they begin and can try to solve their install problems themselves. This was perhaps my main reason for buying Mandrake [I read the HTML documents on the free Mandrake disc included with Maximum Linux magazine]. Also, some people will be doing installations in the middle of the night when they wouldn't have phone support, etc. available, and that even if they made the error that screwed things up -Gary Prichard-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
Dacia and AzureRosethat's 1100 meg of compressed data which translates to between 2.0 and 2.5 gig when installed. Alan Dacia and AzureRose wrote: how much disc space do they need? Are we talking 10s or megs or 100s of megs? Sounds like 7.1 is around 1100 megs for a full install anyway. Is there a "minimum" install, what is in it? Perhaps the extra space could be gathered by dropping some of the redundent programs? If I need an extra 10 megs for these files I would be very willing to only have 1 cdplayer and lose all of the games. It wouldn't bother me to lose the tea timer or moon clock either. See where I'm going with this? Dacia --- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2000, Anthony Huereca wrote: Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. Good suggestion, but how would you like to see the system behave if all the devel-packages are selected but there is not enough diskspace for it? (provoking some real discussion here, I know ;) Paul )0(---)0( Nothing is as easy as it looks. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]]-)0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION : NIC/Cable/DSL/ISDN
:~Since Denis did not comment on my suggestion, I think I have managed to get on :~his /dev/null list... At the moment noone is on my /dev/null list - I am reading all the mail. I did not answer, because I cannot answer this one. I have noted it for further discussion and that is all. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Linux-Mandrake should build on features it has already in place. During install the helpful information at the bottom of the screen could be actually useful, and should occupy more of the screen (it's like an after-thought now). In 7.1 if you hit the F1 key you'll get a big screen with a lot of information. Using InstallUpgrade should actually be useful to reinstall only one thing (to bypass install steps not needed), for example, reinstall X windows if it should become damaged instead of this kind of upgrade reinstall hanging as it does. Hugh why not simply us XFdrake ? -- MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com In travel.--Chmouel
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
Jim wrote: Great suggestion! - Original Message - Excellent. I am looking forward to it. Roman From: "Anthony Huereca" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. That's my main suggestion. And since you said you wanted a seperate email for each topic, there's more on the way. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
On Thu, 25 May 2000, Anthony Huereca wrote: Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. Good suggestion, but how would you like to see the system behave if all the devel-packages are selected but there is not enough diskspace for it? (provoking some real discussion here, I know ;) Paul )0(---)0( Nothing is as easy as it looks. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]]-)0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION One Step Installation
:~fails and then the computer hangs. Oh you can put in a choice too such as :~Choose your installation method :~1) Text install :~2) DrakX :~ Already done :-)) In 7.1, just press F1 and read the instruction. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
I'm new to this list but been using mandrake for a while now. One thing
(well there may be two) I don't like about Linux mandrake is the installing
of multiple programs
that do the same thing, for example I found 2 versions of icq, 20 or 30
games, who knows how many text
editors, and multimedia software, I think more control of what's being
installed should be given.
Juvenal
-Original Message-
From: Denis HAVLIK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Expert list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Gael Duval [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: May 25, 2000 2:42 PM
Subject: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Hi, folks!
What follows is probably a single most important letter I ever posted on
these mailing lists, so please read it very carefully!
[ANNOUNCEMENT]
We (Mandrakesoft) are starting internal discussions about future of
our distributions NOW. We want you to take part in the process of
improving our next distro.
- NOW is a time to ask us whatever you want: tell us what you like, tell
us what you hate, tell us what you dream of!
- NOW is a time for you to influence the future company decisions - start
thinking, and if you come up with a briliant idea, post it here.
Starting NOW, I am going to stop sleeping, eating, or doing any other job
which would interfere with currently most important task: Making sure we
make the best decisions based on whatever input we can get.
[RULES]
* Basically everything you can think of is open for discussion, except
question of including non-free software in the core of our distro, which
is absolute NO-NO.
* Listen to what other people have to say. Try keeping the signal/noise
ratio as high as possible.
* One topic per e-mail and informative subject line help us a lot. ("125
Great ideas!!!" is a very bad subject line.)
* Please, try to avoid any kind of flaming on the list for the next 10
days.
* Finaly, If you have time and skills to pick up ideas from long
discussion threads and write a good summary, please do it, it will help us
a lot.
[TOPICS]
Topics we are particularly interested in at this moment include:
1) ergonomics: What should our user interfaces look like in the
future, what should we improve in our desktop configuration, which things
need polishing...
2) install:Which features of our current installation
program (DrakX) do you like, which features are you missing, what is not
clear enough? The same question goes for post-install configuration
tools.
3) packages: which packages to add, what to remove from the distro,
which subset of packages is really nessesary for a minimal install,
and which packages are "just add-ons"?
4) tools: which new tools (packages) should we develop ourselves, or
improve in case we are already developing them? Many great
programs already exist out there, so we really badly need to know
which important linux tools you still miss, in order to
concentrate on them in the future.
5) system policy: We want to make our system "logical" by following the
Linux Standards, and being consistent in the way
"things" (services, settings) are implemented. Tell us where
we need to improve.
6) security policy: Closely related to point "6". You know that we care a
lot about security, don't you? Well, the problem is choosing right
security settings for various situations.
(If you feel that we have forgotten an important topic, just start a
discusion on it, the list should not be taken too strictly)
I am going to spend a lot of time in reading "newbie" and "expert" mailing
lists during next two weeks. Guillaume will do the same on the
"cooker" list, and other members of the company may pop-up and take
part in discussion too, for topics they may be particularly interested in
(and if they get time to do it, our schedule is bursting).
At the end of the discussion cycle (in two weeks), I will try to write a
resume of what has been decided and share it with you.
yours
Denis Havlik
--
-
Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
idea= allow setting of options such as 'setserial' for modems during the install i suggest this because after discovering that i need to do this after install to make my modem work (still don't know how to make it permanent) i tried to do an upgrade and get the cryptographic modules at the appropriate time, this didn't work, if i coud have set up my modem properly during install prior to this point then this would have worked -i think- perhaps this could be an 'expert' option bascule
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. That's my main suggestion. And since you said you wanted a seperate email for each topic, there's more on the way. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Security
I don't have M7.0 yet, but I like the idea of the different security zones. One of the main complaints I've heard on this mailing list is lack of desciption of what the different zones actually do. So tell the user what exactly is happening when you select a certain level. Or maybe, have like a checklist, where the user can pick and choose what exactly they want to do. That would be cool. Keep it simple (like 5 levels) for the avearage person, but let the expert pick and choose. And include some sample firewalls or something like that. Somethign that would be useful to the average Dial-up (or cable modem in my case) person, who doesn't need a lot of exceptions like for a FTP or web server, but just needs a good regular firewall. That way the user doesn't have to figure out all the ipchaining rules and stuff; which at the moment totally loses me everytime I try to read through the how-to. Of course, maybe it's not a good security idea for a "one-size-fits-most" firewall, but it's just a thought I had. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
I agree with Juvenal's statement... Postfix and Sendmail seems to be the same situation. I prefer to learn Sendmail. Therefore, I think when under the "Expert" mode of the installation, the user should be prompted "Email server: (S)endmail? or (P)ostfix?" Frank Durante I'm new to this list but been using mandrake for a while now. One thing (well there may be two) I don't like about Linux mandrake is the installing of multiple programs that do the same thing, for example I found 2 versions of icq, 20 or 30 games, who knows how many text editors, and multimedia software, I think more control of what's being installed should be given. Juvenal
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
:~Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! :~ :~The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming :~libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't :~ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track :~down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd :~include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would :~make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. :~ In 7.1, "Upgrade" can be used to add these kind of stuff (use "upgrade", "custom") withouth too much fuss. And "kernel-sources" have so many dependencies now, that you have to install good part of the "developers" tools in order to get kernel-source package on the system. This is just a temporary workaround though, in the future rpmdrake will make installing a group of related programs AFTER install a breeze. cu Denis -- - Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
Great suggestion! - Original Message - From: "Anthony Huereca" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. That's my main suggestion. And since you said you wanted a seperate email for each topic, there's more on the way. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
RE: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries
Thanks Anthony. I agree with this as well. I would like to be able to run a server that has all the programming tools with it. That way I could do all my programming on the same machine and not have to install them individually. -- Todd Watson http://www.boogada.org "Hmm. Hey Marge, did you know they have the internet on computers now?" -Homer J. Simpson- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Anthony Huereca Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION: Libaries Wow, a company that actually listens to it's users! Amazing! The most important thing I can think of is to include all the programming libaries even in a standard installation. For while these people probally won't ever program, they will have to compile stuff and it's a huge headache to track down a missing libary or two. So include all the development files that you'd include under a programming install, in all of the installations. It would make a lot of newbies (and me) very very happy. That's my main suggestion. And since you said you wanted a seperate email for each topic, there's more on the way. -- Anthony Huereca http://m3000.1wh.com Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Re: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION One Step Installation
There seems to be a lot of problems with the installation going into second
stage. I for one am having a current problem with it beginning stage two
then terminating on a signal 9 using the harddisk install method thats with
a floppy, using autoboot I get to where it is loading ramdisk then ramdisk
fails and then the computer hangs. Oh you can put in a choice too such as
Choose your installation method
1) Text install
2) DrakX
Just a thought
Kenny
- Original Message -
From: "Denis HAVLIK" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Expert list"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "Gael Duval" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 2:30 PM
Subject: [newbie] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION
Hi, folks!
What follows is probably a single most important letter I ever posted on
these mailing lists, so please read it very carefully!
[ANNOUNCEMENT]
We (Mandrakesoft) are starting internal discussions about future of
our distributions NOW. We want you to take part in the process of
improving our next distro.
- NOW is a time to ask us whatever you want: tell us what you like, tell
us what you hate, tell us what you dream of!
- NOW is a time for you to influence the future company decisions - start
thinking, and if you come up with a briliant idea, post it here.
Starting NOW, I am going to stop sleeping, eating, or doing any other job
which would interfere with currently most important task: Making sure we
make the best decisions based on whatever input we can get.
[RULES]
* Basically everything you can think of is open for discussion, except
question of including non-free software in the core of our distro, which
is absolute NO-NO.
* Listen to what other people have to say. Try keeping the signal/noise
ratio as high as possible.
* One topic per e-mail and informative subject line help us a lot. ("125
Great ideas!!!" is a very bad subject line.)
* Please, try to avoid any kind of flaming on the list for the next 10
days.
* Finaly, If you have time and skills to pick up ideas from long
discussion threads and write a good summary, please do it, it will help us
a lot.
[TOPICS]
Topics we are particularly interested in at this moment include:
1) ergonomics: What should our user interfaces look like in the
future, what should we improve in our desktop configuration, which things
need polishing...
2) install:Which features of our current installation
program (DrakX) do you like, which features are you missing, what is not
clear enough? The same question goes for post-install configuration
tools.
3) packages: which packages to add, what to remove from the distro,
which subset of packages is really nessesary for a minimal install,
and which packages are "just add-ons"?
4) tools: which new tools (packages) should we develop ourselves, or
improve in case we are already developing them? Many great
programs already exist out there, so we really badly need to know
which important linux tools you still miss, in order to
concentrate on them in the future.
5) system policy: We want to make our system "logical" by following the
Linux Standards, and being consistent in the way
"things" (services, settings) are implemented. Tell us where
we need to improve.
6) security policy: Closely related to point "6". You know that we care a
lot about security, don't you? Well, the problem is choosing right
security settings for various situations.
(If you feel that we have forgotten an important topic, just start a
discusion on it, the list should not be taken too strictly)
I am going to spend a lot of time in reading "newbie" and "expert" mailing
lists during next two weeks. Guillaume will do the same on the
"cooker" list, and other members of the company may pop-up and take
part in discussion too, for topics they may be particularly interested in
(and if they get time to do it, our schedule is bursting).
At the end of the discussion cycle (in two weeks), I will try to write a
resume of what has been decided and share it with you.
yours
Denis Havlik
--
-
Dr. Denis Havlikhttp://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-
_
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