Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 06:38 am, Mark Rogers wrote: The machine will not be logged on as 'root' and my security limit is set pretty high (i.e. the reboot command needs to be looged in as 'root' before it executes). Anyone have any idea of how I should go about doing this? You can use a cron job for this and it doesn't have to be logged on to execute. However, you should keep in mind that most things that would cause your system to go south, lockups, out of memory, etc., will also prevent the cron daemon from executing the reboot command. IOW, there is no substitute for an operator at the wheel. -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 08:59 am, Mark Rogers wrote: ** Reply to message from Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:35:19 -0400 Hi Charles Didnt know I had hijacked any thread. I didnt realise that this list was a little different to most I use. I simply replyied to someones message about something else, yet changed the subject line, on all other systems I have used this has created a new subject thread, so Im guessing this list does something a little different with how it tracks a new subject. Im not useing a webinterface or message reader, simply an email program. Sorry for the hiccup :-p (And please dont say 'terrorist', Im probably on the FBI's radar now! :-D lol ) You're not the first one to state this, but yes, the messages are threaded by more than the subject. You can see for yourself by examining the message headers and you will see that there is an in-reply-to field. -- /g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 07:00 am, Bryan Phinney wrote: On Tuesday 03 August 2004 06:38 am, Mark Rogers wrote: The machine will not be logged on as 'root' and my security limit is set pretty high (i.e. the reboot command needs to be looged in as 'root' before it executes). Anyone have any idea of how I should go about doing this? You can use a cron job for this and it doesn't have to be logged on to execute. However, you should keep in mind that most things that would cause your system to go south, lockups, out of memory, etc., will also prevent the cron daemon from executing the reboot command. IOW, there is no substitute for an operator at the wheel. I would also think that there is more of a chance of something going wrong on the reboot, like harddrake hanging the machine waiting for user input, or a bad fsck, than with just letting it run. You could use ssh to do a remote login to monitor the machine while you are away. A WIndows client like PuTTy is great for this. I always keep a mini-cd with PuTTy and the vnc client on it so I can log in to my box from any machine that has an Internet connection. -- /g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 12:40 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: The device you are talking about is a watchdog timer. They are available for a lot of different systems. You can get one on a ISA or PCI card for a PC as well. They used to be built-in on the Sparc Stations. There is support for them in the Linux kernel. For anything that a cron job reboot would work for, the software watchdog module for the kernel should also handle. I am not sure how it would handle a kernel panic. You need the hardware version to handle a hardware lockup. Neither am I. I did do some looking around because it should be theoretically possible to trigger an UPS to cut and then restart power to its devices which would force a hard reboot to a locked machine but I never found anything other than the device I mentioned for Mac's and those were limited to their software since they have to tie in and monitor a specific process. I might look into it a little more because, although my own server is not really critical, I would like to have something that would force the reboot if it locks hard. I imagine that it wouldn't be too difficult, you could simply run an agent to send a report to the device, if the report doesn't arrive, it forces a reboot but it would need to be factored into the power supply and if you use a UPS, that might be problematic. It would be interesting to know how many Linux systems run for months with only remote logins to the machine. How often do you actually use a keyboard and monitor to work on a server? (How many servers are running without a keyboard or monitor?) I used to run mine that way but after several kernel upgrades caused issues (mostly related to kernel modules that need to be built against the new kernel after installing the new kernel), I finally figured I would splurge for a KVM for just such occasions. -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
Bryan Phinney wrote: On Tuesday 03 August 2004 12:40 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: The device you are talking about is a watchdog timer. They are available for a lot of different systems. You can get one on a ISA or PCI card for a PC as well. They used to be built-in on the Sparc Stations. There is support for them in the Linux kernel. For anything that a cron job reboot would work for, the software watchdog module for the kernel should also handle. I am not sure how it would handle a kernel panic. You need the hardware version to handle a hardware lockup. Neither am I. I did do some looking around because it should be theoretically possible to trigger an UPS to cut and then restart power to its devices which would force a hard reboot to a locked machine but I never found anything other than the device I mentioned for Mac's and those were limited to their software since they have to tie in and monitor a specific process. I might look into it a little more because, although my own server is not really critical, I would like to have something that would force the reboot if it locks hard. I imagine that it wouldn't be too difficult, you could simply run an agent to send a report to the device, if the report doesn't arrive, it forces a reboot but it would need to be factored into the power supply and if you use a UPS, that might be problematic. I am not sure about the one for the Mac, but the one for the PC generates a NMI or a reset if it times out. The way they usualy work is you have to write to a specific port or memory location before the timer times out, or it reboots the system. So the system will reset if it get hung. The software version is not as powerfull. But you can read about more about both type. Read watchdog.txt in the Documentation directory of the kernel source, or kernel docs. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 05:54 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: I am not sure about the one for the Mac, but the one for the PC generates a NMI or a reset if it times out. The way they usualy work is you have to write to a specific port or memory location before the timer times out, or it reboots the system. So the system will reset if it get hung. The software version is not as powerfull. But you can read about more about both type. Read watchdog.txt in the Documentation directory of the kernel source, or kernel docs. I did read a bit about some of the hardware card based ones. Looks pretty neat actually and doesn't sit between the powersupply and the UPS but instead hooks to the reset button on the motherboard. Agent runs on software and sends a signal to reset the timer, if the timer counts down without a signal, it shorts the reset button and triggers a reboot. The prices so far look to be about $160 US which is not trivial for me. However, I am definitely going to give it some thought as I would dearly love to have one to stick in the server machine (even if it is just my family server.) Linux kernel has a built in module that will see the card and setup a device for it and, I assume that setting the timeout values are pretty trivial at that point, you just write a value to the device. Thanks much for the pointer but unfortunately, you just got put on my wife's people I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire list for suggesting yet another reason for me to spend money on my computer. Welcome to the club. ;-} -- Bryan Phinney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
Bryan Phinney wrote: I did read a bit about some of the hardware card based ones. Looks pretty neat actually and doesn't sit between the powersupply and the UPS but instead hooks to the reset button on the motherboard. Agent runs on software and sends a signal to reset the timer, if the timer counts down without a signal, it shorts the reset button and triggers a reboot. The prices so far look to be about $160 US which is not trivial for me. However, I am definitely going to give it some thought as I would dearly love to have one to stick in the server machine (even if it is just my family server.) Linux kernel has a built in module that will see the card and setup a device for it and, I assume that setting the timeout values are pretty trivial at that point, you just write a value to the device. Yes, the price is a bit much for a hobby system. I keep hoping to see one for sale at one of the surplus places... I keep meaning to play with the software version that is in the kernel source, but I keep getting distracted with other stuff... I have played with the one on the Sparc Station II. (I collect STRANGE hardware at times!) Thanks much for the pointer but unfortunately, you just got put on my wife's people I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire list for suggesting yet another reason for me to spend money on my computer. Welcome to the club. ;-} I wish hers was the first list of that type I was put on... Oh well. At least I am not likely to run into her. :) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
Hi Team Thanks to all those who have given invaluable help over the last few weeks. One last item (for the moment) that I need to do is setup my system (which is always on) to reboot once a day. Im doing this to ensure there are no problems while absent from the machine for a couple of weeks. The machine will not be logged on as 'root' and my security limit is set pretty high (i.e. the reboot command needs to be looged in as 'root' before it executes). Anyone have any idea of how I should go about doing this? Thanks in advance Yours Sincerely Mark A Rogers Orion Solutions PO BOX 1492 Wodonga Vic 3689 www.orionsolutions.com.au Phone +61 2 6056 5455 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:38:04 +1000 Mark Rogers disseminated the following: One last item (for the moment) that I need to do is setup my system (which is always on) to reboot once a day. Im doing this to ensure there are no problems What problems could possibly arise from *not* rebooting?! This ain't no Winsux where some stupid memory leak is going to freeze your system. I've got all kinds of crap running at all times and I leave it running while I'm away, the worst problem being 700 e-mails waiting from the yahoos on this list ;-) AFAIK, rebooting is almost completely unnecessary with Linux unless you change your kernel or somethin'. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 22:23:44 up 19 days, 14:38, 8 users, load average: 0.11, 0.59, 1.12 +++ When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist. -- Archbishop Helder Camara Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:29:20 -0400 JoeHill wrote: What problems could possibly arise from *not* rebooting?! This ain't no Winsux where some stupid memory leak is going to freeze your system. I've got all kinds of crap running at all times and I leave it running while I'm away, the worst problem being 700 e-mails waiting from the yahoos on this list ;-) AFAIK, rebooting is almost completely unnecessary with Linux unless you change your kernel or somethin'. I've had one failure in 6 years -- hard drive crashed during a power failure -- really crappy way to find out your UPS batteries aren't holding a charge. I reboot it every 18 months just to make sure I remember how :) Brenda Bell Henniker (the only one on earth) New Hampshire (the state with 5 seasons: black fly, tourist, foliage, ski and mud) ... but we're not allowed to shoot the tourists :) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On August 2, 2004 20:29:08, JoeHill wrote: On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:38:04 +1000 Mark Rogers disseminated the following: One last item (for the moment) that I need to do is setup my system (which is always on) to reboot once a day. Im doing this to ensure there are no problems What problems could possibly arise from *not* rebooting?! This ain't no Winsux where some stupid memory leak is going to freeze your system. I've got all kinds of crap running at all times and I leave it running while I'm away, the worst problem being 700 e-mails waiting from the yahoos on this list ;-) AFAIK, rebooting is almost completely unnecessary with Linux unless you change your kernel or somethin'. I agree with that opinion. I was unable to touch my system for as much as 3 weeks during the run up to the previous Mandrake release plus an undefined number of days after that. Illness. Between the Mandrake lists and others I'm subscribed to, there were over 40,000 unread messages when I got back. Everything that I'd left running was still running and nothing untoward happened. The swap file was still unused. When cooker is going through a test release cycle (Alpha, Beta, Release Candidates) I reboot a lot more than I would like, or would normally. Quite often just so that I can test the installer. Other than that... As for the reboot to run a new kernel, that may change in the near future too. There's a project (can't recall the name off hand, sorry) underway to make starting a new kerenl without a reboot possible. As soon as I recall what the project is called I'll post it. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User #244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrakelinux release 10.1 (Alpha 1) for i586 kernel 2.6.8-0.rc2.2mdk 20:58:25 up 5:05, 1 user, load average: 0.04, 0.70, 1.21 I've never been drunk, but often I've been overserved. -- George Gobel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBDwJQZqvqlrLPr5YRAqTVAJ40KGYLup4TKMIcnMo/Z08tB9B75gCeJKat ELOgwsVTX0PDMSnZI9ky1Dc= =RZcT -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 06:38 am, Mark Rogers wrote: Hi Team Thanks to all those who have given invaluable help over the last few weeks. One last item (for the moment) that I need to do is setup my system (which is always on) to reboot once a day. Im doing this to ensure there are no problems while absent from the machine for a couple of weeks. The machine will not be logged on as 'root' and my security limit is set pretty high (i.e. the reboot command needs to be looged in as 'root' before it executes). Anyone have any idea of how I should go about doing this? You should not need to reboot linux, unless you update or change kernel. The only problem I ever have is the weather, no ups and lots of nasty thunderstorms, so I have to shut down a lot. Oh and did I mention I torture my systems on a more than regular basis, installing this uninstalling that, crashing programs (user error there) running servers bla bla. Regards, Dan Gordon -- 23:23:14 up 1 day, 2:08, 0 users, load average: 0.18, 0.19, 0.18 Mon Aug 2 23:23:14 EDT 2004 People are unconditionally guaranteed to be full of defects. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:29:20 -0400 JoeHill wrote: Mark Rogers disseminated the following: Joe, you are falling down on your job as the protector of we innocents on this list who respond to 1 thread only to see it become another. For this you loose 2 SOB points. Mark, Please do not hijack a thread. I you wish to ask a question you are more than welcome to do so. But do it as a 'new' thread not simply by changing the subject in an existing thread. Charles -- YOW!! What should the entire human race DO?? Consume a fifth of CHIVAS REGAL, ski NUDE down MT. EVEREST, and have a wild SEX WEEKEND! -- Mandrake Linux 10.0 on BigBoy #184142 Registered Linux user #182463 *http://www.eslrahc.com* 2.6.5-1.tmb.6mdkenterprise -- pgpZTThXVZTDy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:35:19 -0400 Charles A Edwards disseminated the following: Mark Rogers disseminated the following: Joe, you are falling down on your job as the protector of we innocents on this list who respond to 1 thread only to see it become another. For this you loose 2 SOB points. Jeez, I can't win for losing...either 'list nazi' or SOB ;-) Oh well we are what we are... -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 23:53:16 up 19 days, 16:08, 7 users, load average: 1.69, 1.57, 1.41 +++ Two different philosophies about the nature of human intellectual production are in confrontation. One of them has all the chips; the other has all the right answers. This is part of the long struggle in the history of human beings for the creation of freedom. This time, we win. -- Eben Moglen, Professor of Law Columbia University Law School, General Counsel Free Software Foundation Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:38:04 +1000 Mark Rogers disseminated the following: snip Okay, so to restore my rep as list nazi, please set your mail client's line wrap to under 80 columns, or we shall taunt you a second time. Oh, and the hijacking thing too. http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 23:57:07 up 19 days, 16:12, 7 users, load average: 2.23, 1.60, 1.43 +++ Rule #2 (John Gilmore): The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
** Reply to message from Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:35:19 -0400 Hi Charles Didnt know I had hijacked any thread. I didnt realise that this list was a little different to most I use. I simply replyied to someones message about something else, yet changed the subject line, on all other systems I have used this has created a new subject thread, so Im guessing this list does something a little different with how it tracks a new subject. Im not useing a webinterface or message reader, simply an email program. Sorry for the hiccup :-p (And please dont say 'terrorist', Im probably on the FBI's radar now! :-D lol ) On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:29:20 -0400 JoeHill wrote: Mark Rogers disseminated the following: Joe, you are falling down on your job as the protector of we innocents on this list who respond to 1 thread only to see it become another. For this you loose 2 SOB points. Mark, Please do not hijack a thread. I you wish to ask a question you are more than welcome to do so. But do it as a 'new' thread not simply by changing the subject in an existing thread. Charles -- YOW!! What should the entire human race DO?? Consume a fifth of CHIVAS REGAL, ski NUDE down MT. EVEREST, and have a wild SEX WEEKEND! -- Mandrake Linux 10.0 on BigBoy #184142 Registered Linux user #182463 *http://www.eslrahc.com* 2.6.5-1.tmb.6mdkenterprise -- Yours Sincerely Mark A Rogers Orion Solutions PO BOX 1492 Wodonga Vic 3689 www.orionsolutions.com.au Phone +61 2 6056 5455 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:54:24 -0400 JoeHill wrote: Jeez, I can't win for losing...either 'list nazi' or SOB ;-) It just that some might get the wrong impression of you when you 'seem' nice (-; Charles -- standards, n.: The principles we use to reject other people's code. -- Mandrake Linux 10.0 on BigBoy #184142 Registered Linux user #182463 *http://www.eslrahc.com* 2.6.5-1.tmb.6mdkenterprise -- pgp9Ji8vh7jDU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] Sceduling Automatic Reboots
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:08:51 -0400 Charles A Edwards disseminated the following: Jeez, I can't win for losing...either 'list nazi' or SOB ;-) It just that some might get the wrong impression of you when you 'seem' nice (-; Okay, that's it, your over your quota for the 'zings' for about a week... -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 00:18:17 up 19 days, 16:33, 10 users, load average: 1.56, 1.66, 1.61 +++ President Bush is asking Congress for $80 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq. And when you make out that check, remember there are two L's in Halliburton. -- David Letterman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
